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Hey, I'm Matt Brownell.

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And I'm Van Owens.

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And I'm Tim Adams.

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Welcome to Climbing the Mountain, where we dive into the scriptures and discuss themes,

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connections, and real life application.

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We're kicking off a series here where we're going to examine the Sermon on the Mount and

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discuss implications for this teaching for Christians today.

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Alright, welcome everyone to our next podcast here.

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We're going to talk today about oaths.

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And when I was researching this, when I was getting ready to be, this is the first one

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that I'm moderating.

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So I wanted to, I thought, this is good.

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This is going to be an easy one.

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This is going to be one that is so straightforward that we'll talk for 10 minutes and we'll have

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it down.

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All done.

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And yeah, it is not that at all.

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And I'm going to start, I'm going to dive right in.

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We're just going to read the passage.

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We're coming out of Matthew chapter five and reading in verse 33, it says, again, you've

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heard that it was said to the people long ago, do not break your oath, but fulfill to the

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Lord the vows you have made.

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But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is God's throne,

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or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the

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great king.

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Do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black.

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All you need to say is simply yes or no.

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Anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

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And so there are, there are passages in the Old Testament, Numbers 30, Deuteronomy 23,

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to name a couple that reference making a vow to the Lord.

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The first question I have is, what does this mean?

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Is it a promise to do something for the Lord?

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A calling of God as a witness between the person making the vow and the person to whom

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it is made?

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Is it both?

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Is it neither?

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What does this mean?

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That's a good question.

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I think it's important we define the terms oath and vow.

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To take an oath means to swear by or upon some sacred object or divine witness.

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It marks the seriousness of what you're saying.

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So I think if you're in a court and you're called to bear witness, they have you put

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your hand on the Bible and swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the

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truth, so help you God.

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To make a vow is to solemnly promise, in this context of the phrase, the Lord, which I

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think we see this phrase is at issue in this example, to swear an oath before God is to

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promise to another person in God's sight.

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So to make a vow to the Lord is to promise to God.

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And what I think Jesus is doing here though is because he's, he isn't quoting a specific

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verse like he did in the first couple examples from the Ten Commandments.

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He's getting at, I think, the whole of the law's emphasis on truth.

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And when I was studying for this topic, the two verses you mentioned along with Leviticus

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19 were very interesting and relate directly to this topic.

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And I want to read those scriptures you referenced.

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So Numbers 30:2, it says, if a man vows a vow to the Lord or swears an oath to bind

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himself by a pledge, he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceeds

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out of his mouth.

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And then in Deuteronomy 23:21-22, it says, if you make a vow to the Lord, your

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God, you shall not delay in fulfilling it.

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For the Lord your God will surely require to have you and you will be guilty of sin.

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But if you refrain from vowing, you'll not be guilty of sin.

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So I think this phrase to the Lord is key to understanding the issue Jesus is addressing

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and how our righteousness should surpass that of the Pharisees and teachers of law.

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I think Jesus is particularly emphasizing that phrase.

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Yeah.

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I was curious how you're going to respond to that because I went down to try to figure

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out the difference or what this actually means and kind of landed in a similar place as you.

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But I didn't know.

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I was like, because I haven't thought about the difference in vows and oaths.

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But the way I typically do this when I'm trying to understand how these words get used, I

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go to the passage that I'm trying to understand and I look up the word, whether it's a Hebrew

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word or a Greek word, and I basically go to that on Blue Letter Bible and I try to find

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all the other places that use that word.

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And then I just try to understand in context how do these get used.

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So Matt, I totally agree with what you said.

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Like a vow is a voluntary promise to God and oath is like a promise to others in the presence

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of God, I think is my rephrasing of that.

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The verses that helped me with that for the a vow in Judges 11:30, Jephthah is talking,

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he makes a very rash promise, but he bases is if you give the Ammonites into my hand,

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then, and he gives his promise.

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So he's talking to God and he's like, you know, this is the deal.

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This is how we're going to do stuff, but he didn't have to do that.

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He was just giving this voluntary promise.

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And then in 2 Samuel 15 through 7, Absalom's talking, he's actually lying, but he says,

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let me go to Hebron and fulfill a vow I made to the Lord.

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So it's like, I made this promise to God, I told him I would go to this place, I would

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give these sacrifices, you know, let me go do that.

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So that's how those are the scriptures I thought for, okay, this is what vows mean.

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And then in, for oaths, one that was really helpful to me was Exodus 22, where it says

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verse 10-11, it says, if a man gives to his neighbor a donkey or an ox or a sheep

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or any beast to keep safe and it dies are as injured or as driven away without anyone

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seeing it, an oath by the Lord shall be between them.

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That's like very clear.

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Like there's a, it goes on, but the point is like it's something between these two people.

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Directionality is what I think is important.

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So there's more scriptures, but I think I wanted to just add that, that if you're ever

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unsure of, okay, how do I actually know what these words mean?

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And we're not just like pulling it out of a random place or pulling it out of a dictionary

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and saying this is definitely what it is.

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You know, there's, we're trying to understand the scriptures have these different ways of

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using it and that's how we make these definitions.

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It's such a good resource you mentioned too.

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I just want to reiterate, Blue Letter Bible, look that up.

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It's great.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think it is so important to define the terms here and to understand them and their,

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the cultural significance that it had to the first hearers of these words, because honestly,

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they don't really mean that much.

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This is why I thought this was going to be such an easy topic because when I, when you

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think of an oath now, the only context that I have for an oath outside of the scriptures

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is testifying in court.

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Yeah.

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You put your hand on the, I think they still put their hand on the Bible or maybe you can

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decide not to, I think now, and you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing

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but the truth and sometimes they still add, so help you God.

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And I think, and the only context that I have for a vow is marriage vows, which we spent

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a lot of time talking about and which obviously bridges into what we're talking about here.

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So it's really good to have those terms defined and to know what it is we're exactly talking

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about.

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I think of their passages in the Old Testament, there's a passage in Leviticus 19, there's

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a passage in James where there's a reference made to the practice of swearing in the name

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of the Lord, which I think we've talked about a little bit so far.

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I want to ask you guys, does this have anything to do with the commandment taking the Lord's

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name in vain, one of the 10 commandments is you shall not take the Lord's name in vain.

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And if it does, what does that, how should we handle things like popular expressions

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like OMG, oh my God, which is used thousands of times every day by almost everybody I talk

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to or the tendency to use the name of Jesus Christ to express all kinds of things, everything

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from surprise to disgust.

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Well Leviticus 19, that's another one I was looking at, it's a special chapter, it figures

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prominently in the Sermon on the Mount several times, but especially where it's concerned

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about loving your neighbor, right?

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That's the one where it's the greatest commandment and then the second is like it and he quotes

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Leviticus 19:18.

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Like you said, James, right?

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So that's it figures prominently in James, it's really interesting.

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He quotes Jesus in chapter five as a sort of reminder and bookend to all the teaching

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that went before concerning our pride and self-focus and taming the tongue.

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So I guess I just want to read that verse in Leviticus 19:12, but I want to start one

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verse before in verse 11, it says, you shall not steal, you shall not deal falsely, you

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shall not lie to one another, you shall not swear by my name falsely and so profane the

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name of your God, I am the Lord.

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So I think this verse is a great bridge between the overall sense of what Jesus is addressing

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that our speech should be truthful and genuine, you know, your specific question concerning

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the third commandment though, I think Jesus is definitely getting at the third commandment

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in his teaching in Matthew five, but I have to pull back for a minute to give context.

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I think taking the Lord's name in vain is not what we think of it today.

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I don't think God is as concerned with his name being used in foul language, although

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I don't think we should do that, but that word to take is actually to carry, to take

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up or even put on or wear.

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If you call yourself a God follower and then drag his name, his good name through the mud

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with how you're living, you've brought dishonor to his name.

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You've taken his name as if it were a light thing, not the glorious thing that it is.

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So how does this relate?

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Well, Matthew 5, we see several examples that Jesus gives of holy places that the Pharisees

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had taken into their oaths, heaven, earth, Jerusalem.

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By the way, he gives more examples in Matthew 23 in his condemnation of the Pharisees.

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The thing he does in each of these three examples in Matthew five is tie them back to the name

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of the Lord.

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Each of them are related to God, a place upon which he has set his name.

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In second Chronicles 6:6, it's an example, but now I have chosen Jerusalem for my name

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to be there.

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So these places were intended to display the glory of God.

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So when we swear by these sacred places, we swear by God's name too.

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He's kind of like, ah, gotcha.

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If we then break our word, we dishonor his name.

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In effect, we break both the third and ninth commandments.

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Yeah, and just to add to that, that idea of what is God's name even?

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It is his name, you know, the thing that the letters that we write down or we say, but

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there's much more in Old Testament, God's name is used to refer to like his whole character,

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right?

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And there's Leviticus 22:2 says, tell Aaron and his sons to treat with respect

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the sacred offerings that Israelites consecrate to be so they will not profane my holy name.

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I am the Lord.

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I mean, that doesn't have anything to do with God's name.

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That has to do with the respect that we give to him, right?

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And there's a bunch more examples that are similar to that.

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So there's, yeah, so I think going back to Matthew five, this is one, probably of any

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of the six, this is probably the one where it's easy for people to say what's the big

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deal, right?

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Because we've so desensitized ourselves to, we don't really use Oaths or vows in exactly

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the same way that they did then.

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But even then it can feel like, I'm just saying something, why does this matter?

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And Jesus is saying, all you need to say is simply yes or no, anything beyond this comes

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from the evil one.

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He's putting a very strong weight on our words.

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And I think that's because just like God's name is integrally bound up with this character

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and who he is, our words and what we say are integrally bound up with who we are, right?

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And so I think we can unpack that.

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But knowing that God's name is more than just the word itself helps me see that connection.

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Yeah, I think that is a very important, and we really have, I think, lost contact with

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that in our day and age.

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I think something about what you said, Matt, spurred the thought in me of calling myself

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a Christian.

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That is quite literally putting upon myself the name of God.

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When I say I'm a Christian and I think of the times when I say that, am I honoring God's

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name when I say that, or am I dishonoring God's name?

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Do I say that I'm a Christian?

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Or for people who know me, who know that I'm a Christian and then see how I behave, am

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I then taking the Lord's name in vain by doing that?

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It's a very, very sobering thought.

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And I also think about what you were saying Tim about the fact that when we're talking

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about God's name, it's not just his name.

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We're talking about everything that he is.

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And everything that he is is everything.

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And so it's not something that we should take lightly.

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And this is what I realized as I was doing research for this, is that that's what makes

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this all of a sudden, this is a very deep, intense talk because we're talking about the

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totality of God here.

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We're not just talking about words.

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Holy, holy, holy.

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Exactly.

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And I think that's what Jesus was getting at here, is that this is not just words.

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This is not just a name.

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And the ancient Israelites, the Jews, they hallow that name in a different way from

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the way we think about it as Christians.

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The way that it's written even in the Old Testament, there are long texts about what

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it means to say that word.

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And people who won't even say that word for fear of misusing it.

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So yeah, it's a heavy topic.

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Can I read a quote that I found that knocked my socks off?

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And it connects to this.

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When we call ourselves Christians, when we take up God's name, that has a profound impact.

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So this is from this guy named Hermes.

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I honestly don't know too much about him.

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But he says, Love the truth and let nothing but truth proceed from your mouth, that the

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spirit which God placed in your flesh may be found truthful before everyone.

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And the Lord who dwells in you will be glorified because the Lord is truthful in every word,

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and in him is no falsehood.

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Therefore those who lie deny the Lord and rob him, not giving back to him the deposit

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which they have received.

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For they receive from him a spirit free from falsehood.

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If they give him back this spirit untruthful, they pollute the commandment of the Lord and

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become robbers.

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Wow.

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Yeah, I don't think there's anything more I need to say about that.

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That's quite a turn of phrase there.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Jesus is using very extreme language here again, and it's to clarify a practice that

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had been trivialized by the believers.

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Why is the language so, and I feel like we've asked this question before, but I think it's

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worth asking it again, why is the language so extreme?

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What's at stake here for the people's hearts and minds?

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I think he's doing the same thing again a little bit.

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He's trying to wake them up.

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They'd lost the seriousness about being sincere and honest, and really when you think about

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it, it's human or sinful nature to lie.

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We do it so often.

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I mean, it's kind of hilarious too, like now that I'm a, since I've become a dad, I look

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at my child and it's so obvious that they're lying to me.

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They're not good at it.

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They're not clever enough to figure out how to lie well yet, which is actually that, it's

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kind of sad when you do learn how to do that.

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I think sometimes I wonder, is that how God views us when we are not truthful?

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We're so obvious.

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It's so not his language that he speaks.

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I love that quote you mentioned, Tim.

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I guess I wonder why we're so easy on ourselves about it too.

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But at the same time, we go crazy when someone else tells a little white lie a fib if it

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impacts us.

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That's not God's heart.

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When I was studying for this, there was a passage I came across in Psalm 15:4.

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It says, a righteous man swears to his own hurt and does not change.

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And that cut me.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, so we don't do oaths in the same way that they might have, where it's like,

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okay, I swear by God's throne, right, that I will X.

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But you just said, Matt, that everyone lies all the time.

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This is just the air that we breathe.

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And so we get really good at trying to figure out is someone being truthful to me.

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And we have a lot of ways of asking, you really mean that?

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You said that, but I don't believe it, right?

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Give me more evidence that this is a real thing.

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And so, I mean, lawyers are trained to spot it, right?

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Right.

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We have whole professions that are like, this is my job.

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Right.

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To just detect when someone not being truthful to me.

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And so I've been wrestling with this.

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But I think more or less where I'm at is that when Jesus says, like, all you need to say

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is simply yes or no, anything beyond this comes from the evil one, that he's basically

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saying, like, that should be your MO, right?

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This is, you shouldn't be going around making promises or oaths or basically having to make

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these claims that are, okay, I was, I'm actually telling the truth this time.

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This time I mean it.

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Right.

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And so to me, it's helpful to think about, yeah, so why that extreme language?

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And it's like, well, most of the time, you know, the way that I can behave or the way

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that other people can behave is that I don't follow through on what I say, right?

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I'm not a person or we collectively often are not people who are worthy of respect that

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when I just say, yes, I'll do this, no, that's not true.

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That's actually the case.

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And so he says anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

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And I think that's because if you need to swear an oath, if you need to like say, no,

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no, no, really, really, really, like, or whatever there's a million ways that can look like,

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that means that there's a serious breakdown in either that relationship, right?

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Where someone knows this person is characteristically untruthful or doesn't follow through.

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Or it's just like, I'm scarred from all the previous relationships that I've been in and

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I know that people typically lie and this is an opportunity when I come into the presence

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of someone who's actually living this way to see, oh, wow, someone can actually just

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be full of integrity.

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And that's an incredible thing.

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So I think that's why Jesus is like, I think Jesus is saying to wrap it up in a bow, you

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know, anything beyond this comes from the evil one, because anything beyond this does come

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from the evil one.

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And that those shouldn't be these oaths and promises should not be in our vocabulary because

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they represent the brokenness and fallen nature of our world.

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Yeah, you know, I think springing off of what you said, Matt, about your about your kids,

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it is an interesting thing that we are so we're used to living in a place where people

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lie all the time, where almost everything you hear, you have to wonder, are they really

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telling the truth?

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You know, if you say to someone, what do you think of this tie?

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And they say, oh, it's nice.

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You're wondering, do they mean nice?

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Like they just want to dismiss me and they don't care.

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Do they mean nice?

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The first thing in your mind is not, oh, so therefore it is a nice tie.

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That's not the first thing in your mind.

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The first thing in your mind is what are they actually telling me?

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And I think the fact that it is true with kids that they're really bad at it when they

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first start doing it.

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My son, my son used to, he'd be all the way in his room, which was in the back of the

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house and he'd scream, dad.

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And I'd say, yes.

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And he'd say, don't come in here.

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And I think it's because he was very tuned in.

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You know, he was at the time going to Sunday school.

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He was very tuned in to lying about things.

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And so he never wanted to lie.

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So if he did something wrong, he would just want to not, me not to discover it.

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So he wouldn't have to lie.

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And it's just, but it's amazing to me.

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One of the, one of the things that I realized again as I was researching this is that we've

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lost sort of our, sort of our intentionality about our words.

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We don't, we don't take our own words seriously.

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And we'll say it's so easy for somebody to say, oh, I'm having a party on such and such

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a date.

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Are you going to come?

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And you say, yeah, I'll be there.

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And in your mind, you know, as you say it, not really going to go.

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I'm not really going to go.

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And no, my word is my bond.

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Right.

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And maybe it doesn't affect that relationship as much because maybe that person who's inviting

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you to a party is not really even a friend of yours, but it affects you.

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It affects, it affects your own integrity, sort of to the quote that you were saying just

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now to him.

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So we've had a good talk so far.

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And I think we've got a little bit more to unpack with oaths, but we're going to end this

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one right here.

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This has been great.

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Thanks.

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Thank you.