1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,600 Hey, I'm Matt Brownell. 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:10,240 And I'm Van Owens. 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:11,640 And I'm Tim Adams. 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:17,880 Welcome to Climbing the Mountain, where we dive into the scriptures and discuss themes, 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,040 connections, and real life application. 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,720 We're kicking off a series here where we're going to examine the sermon on the mount and 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:32,200 discuss implications for this teaching for Christians today. 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,280 We're back for part three of Anger. 9 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,640 Tim's going to give us a recap of where we've been. 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:45,800 Yeah, so this is a funny one because we thought, I think Matt wasn't the only one. 11 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,960 This might have been easier, but here we are on part three trying to unpack this. 12 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:59,040 And I just want to say that it's helpful for me to sit in these passages because I've 13 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:07,760 heard them a lot, but to actually let them sink into my heart and consider the full implications 14 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,640 of what this means, what it would really look like to live a life without anger. 15 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:12,640 It's just so challenging. 16 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,600 So where have we been? 17 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:21,440 We've been talking about Matthew 5:21-26, and because it's good to read it, I'll 18 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:22,440 read it again. 19 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,240 You've heard that it was said to those of old, you shall not murder, and anyone who 20 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,720 murders will be liable to judgment. 21 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:33,320 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment. 22 00:01:33,320 --> 00:01:37,160 Whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council, and whoever says you fool 23 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,320 will be liable to the hell of fire. 24 00:01:39,320 --> 00:01:42,440 So if you are offering your gift to the altar and they remember that your brother has something 25 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:43,640 against you. 26 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,200 Leave your gift there before the altar and go. 27 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,680 First be reconciled to your brother and then come and offer your gift. 28 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,520 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court. 29 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,440 Lest your accuser hand you over to the judge and the judge to the guard and you will be 30 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:58,940 put in prison. 31 00:01:58,940 --> 00:02:03,400 Truly I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny. 32 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:10,640 And so what we've been talking about most recently here in part two is we really sat 33 00:02:10,640 --> 00:02:16,040 on this concept of what does it mean for us to leave our gift at the altar? 34 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,080 Where is the altar in our current lives? 35 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,560 And we kind of came to the conclusion that it's our whole lives. 36 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,920 We're living sacrifices. 37 00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:35,080 And so when we are thinking about our worship to God, we have to deeply consider these horizontal 38 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:42,600 relationships that we are participating in every single day. 39 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:51,480 And with that being said, we're not necessarily held hostage by what other people might think 40 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:52,480 about us. 41 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:58,400 And we know that if we're living the way of Jesus, we're going to have people who dislike 42 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,440 us, who hate us, who are angry with us. 43 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:07,480 And that doesn't mean we can't worship, but we remembered what Paul said, as far as it 44 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,800 depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 45 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:14,840 And that's kind of where we stopped there. 46 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:20,120 As far as it depends on you, that means literally as far as it depends on you. 47 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,720 That's why Jesus is saying, leave your gift there at the altar. 48 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:30,160 This is a removal of anger from our hearts that's very different than what our society 49 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,920 does and I think that most of us on a day-to-day basis do. 50 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:35,320 It's a very high calling. 51 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:36,320 Yeah. 52 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:37,320 Thank you. 53 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:38,320 Yes. 54 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:45,320 And I thought of another one when you were talking, Matthew 24:9, Jesus says, and you 55 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,880 will be hated by all nations for my namesake. 56 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:56,280 Yeah, it can't mean that, as far as it depends on you, I think is a good place. 57 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:06,360 As far as it depends on you is wonderful because it doesn't set a specific limit. 58 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,440 It doesn't say, what does that mean? 59 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:15,520 Because that means a different thing for all of us. 60 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:25,520 And it's very clear and very concise without being too specific. 61 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,640 Because in every situation, that's going to be different. 62 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:37,120 I can deal with if Tim, you were angry or Matt, you were angry with me right now, then 63 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:42,680 as far as it depends on me is pretty far because we're all sitting in the same room. 64 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:43,920 We all go to the same church. 65 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,520 We all live relatively close to each other. 66 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,840 There's a lot that I could do to be resolved with you. 67 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:54,160 But if it's somebody who's more distant from me or someone that I don't have as much access 68 00:04:54,160 --> 00:05:04,160 to, then maybe as far as it depends on me is less effort, less work, but still a high 69 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:05,160 calling. 70 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:06,160 Yeah. 71 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,960 I want to read the next two verses after Romans 12:18. 72 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,040 Well, actually, I want to read it and oh my gosh, I want to read the whole chapter now. 73 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:15,040 I'm looking at it. 74 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:16,040 Yeah. 75 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,200 I think it'll come up in other discussions. 76 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:19,200 It's going to. 77 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:20,200 It probably will. 78 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,280 It's a well-worn passage. 79 00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:29,160 You know, he goes on, you know, he starts with repay no one evil for evil, but he goes 80 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,200 on to really put it back toward trusting God. 81 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,400 And I think that is one of the keys I want to get to tonight. 82 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:43,440 I think that, you know, it says never avenge yourself, but leave it to the wrath of God 83 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,160 for his written vengeance is mine. 84 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,200 I will repay, says the Lord. 85 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,840 To the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him. 86 00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:53,240 If he's thirsty, give him something to drink. 87 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:59,920 And if he ends this section with the beautiful, do not be overcome by evil, but overcome 88 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:02,000 evil with good. 89 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:13,680 And so I think I want to pivot here now and start to think about is all anger bad? 90 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:21,560 Would we just, you know, weed this out completely or, you know, and I want to read a verse to 91 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:22,560 set this up. 92 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,400 James 1:19-20, my dear brothers, take note of this. 93 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:33,200 Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry for man's anger 94 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:39,320 does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. 95 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:44,400 So we've talked a lot about how we should be rooting anger out of our heart. 96 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,000 That is not a good place for it to sit at all. 97 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,200 But is all anger inherently wicked? 98 00:06:51,200 --> 00:07:00,840 Can some anger be righteous or is it a slippery slope to even allow a fraction in because 99 00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:03,760 our sinful nature will take it and just run with it? 100 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:11,920 Well, I think of the passage in sort of the famous passage in John chapter two. 101 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,560 I'm going to read this one, John 2:13. 102 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:21,120 This is Jesus and it says when it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up 103 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,360 to Jerusalem in the temple courts. 104 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:30,120 He found people selling cattle, sheep and doves and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 105 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:37,000 So he made a whip out of courts and drove all of them on drove all from the temple courts, 106 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,760 both sheep and cattle. 107 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:44,120 He scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables to those who sold 108 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:45,120 doves. 109 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,920 He said, get these out of here. 110 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,320 Stop turning my father's house into a market. 111 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:56,600 His disciples remember that it is written zeal for your house will consume me. 112 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:03,240 The first time I read that passage, I thought, aha, now I can reembrace my third emotion 113 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:10,760 of anger because Jesus was clearly angry here. 114 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,800 And he drove out the money changers. 115 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:15,000 He drove out all the cattle. 116 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,920 He made a whip out of cords. 117 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,400 There's only one thing to do with a whip out of cords. 118 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,940 It's whip some people, whip some things. 119 00:08:23,940 --> 00:08:26,200 And I thought, that's it. 120 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:30,960 And then I went to someone who was a little bit more well versed in me and he said, it's 121 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:32,480 righteous indignation. 122 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,800 And I said, OK, that's what I'll call it from now on. 123 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,560 I am righteous indignation against you. 124 00:08:38,560 --> 00:08:42,120 I am righteously indignant. 125 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:49,240 And so I do think that there is a time clearly there is because Jesus did it. 126 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:54,640 There is a time for that, that indignation. 127 00:08:54,640 --> 00:09:01,400 There is a time for that, but for Jesus, it was a time and there is a sense in that passage 128 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,080 of the slow to become angry. 129 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:05,760 It's like he's there. 130 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,360 He's observing everything that's going on. 131 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:09,840 He's watching it. 132 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,320 And perhaps in his mind, he's thinking, is this really bad? 133 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,400 Is this something that makes me feel really bad? 134 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:23,080 But is this something that is in violation of my father's house? 135 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,320 And he sits there and he's thinking about it and he's slowly making a whip out of cords 136 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:28,960 in case he's going to need it. 137 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,000 And then he acts. 138 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:37,800 And I think that the thing for Jesus, and you know, Jesus was someone who was beaten 139 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:44,880 and bound and spit upon and led away and crucified. 140 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,000 Someone who did not have to have that happen to him. 141 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:57,080 And so when it was on him, when the hatred or when the sin was put on him, he did not 142 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,240 do anything like this. 143 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:08,760 But when it was a violation of God's house, a violation of God's sovereignty, a violation 144 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,520 of God's kingdom, that's when he acted. 145 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:18,240 But even Jesus was for Jesus slow to act on it. 146 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:19,240 Yeah. 147 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,920 It must have taken a while to fashion that cord, right? 148 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:24,400 That whip. 149 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,480 Yeah. 150 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:32,000 So yeah, he didn't act like having a fit of rage or something. 151 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,400 This was anger directed at something that was defacing God's glory. 152 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,600 It was keeping. 153 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,360 They turned the cord of the Gentiles. 154 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,280 We're supposed to be a light to the nations, right? 155 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:43,920 That's what Israel is supposed to be. 156 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,640 And they took the only place where people could worship that were Gentiles and turned 157 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:48,640 into a marketplace. 158 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:54,600 You're not going to be, I don't know how easy it is for you to pray when people are, if 159 00:10:54,600 --> 00:11:00,720 you've been to an outdoor marketplace before, they're loud. 160 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:01,720 They're haggling. 161 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:03,760 They're, they're bargaining. 162 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,600 They're, people are being cheated. 163 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,240 There's all kinds of stuff going on there. 164 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:15,480 And I think that Jesus observed all of that and said, this cannot, this won't, this won't 165 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,680 hold. 166 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:24,400 I liked what you said though, Van, about how if it was directed toward him, you know, it 167 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,160 was not something that he was, he was going to absorb it somehow. 168 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:39,800 And I think that relates to one of the Beatitudes that, that I see here in Matthew 5 because 169 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:46,560 right at the beginning almost blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth. 170 00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:52,640 I think that is showing meekness in the context there. 171 00:11:52,640 --> 00:12:01,120 He's absorbing something, you know, that he, it's not just a, you know, a regular 172 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:02,200 kind of humility. 173 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:07,000 It's you're absorbing something bad happening. 174 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,520 And I think that's what, that's the heart that we're called to have when something bad 175 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:20,120 happens to, when someone does wrong us, we're called to have a heart of absorbing it because 176 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,920 we are supposed to love this person. 177 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:23,920 Yeah. 178 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:29,040 I, there's, there's a couple of proverbs, you know, one says better as a patient man 179 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,120 than a strong man for who he was straight, who restrains his anger is better than he 180 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,520 who takes the city. 181 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:40,760 And the other one, the imprudent man declares his anger on the same day. 182 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,400 And but the crafty man hides away his dishonor. 183 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:53,040 So there's, there's definitely a lot to this of being slow to become angry. 184 00:12:53,040 --> 00:13:00,660 And I think we, the things that are obvious to me are that it says human anger does not 185 00:13:00,660 --> 00:13:02,600 produce the righteousness that God desires. 186 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:09,680 So if I'm, if I'm feeling that immediate impulse, that's probably the human side of 187 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:14,400 me, not the, not the son of God side. 188 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:21,600 But I think it's also, I mean, some people gravitate towards anger externally. 189 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:27,960 Some people can more hold on to it and keep it inside. 190 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,960 Ooh, that's a good, that's a good distinction. 191 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,720 I just, I know that I tend to be a conflict avoider I mentioned that I think on that 192 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:37,760 part one. 193 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:49,080 And I can think of that as being righteous because I'm not riling feathers. 194 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:58,800 And it's clear that Jesus was very comfortable being in a place of strong emotion and passion. 195 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:03,120 And I just thought about Mark 3. 196 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,360 I think we might lose some of these things in translation. 197 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:12,680 I don't know, but there's a man who's crippled and Jesus, it's on the Sabbath and Jesus says 198 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:17,120 to the man, stand up in front of everyone and Jesus asked those who were watching, which 199 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:21,280 is lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill. 200 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:22,880 It says it, but they remain silent. 201 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,920 And he looked around at them in anger and deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, 202 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,080 said to the man, stretch out your hand and then he healed them. 203 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:36,800 And I mean, there literally says he's angry, but he's deeply distressed, right? 204 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:44,560 There's this, there's like very strong passion that is leading to in this case, a man being 205 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:52,840 healed who would have been bound for another day or whoever knows how many days from, from 206 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,520 his physical infirmity. 207 00:14:55,520 --> 00:15:05,520 And I know that when I'm coming out of a place of, I'm just going to keep everything at a 208 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:12,360 low nice level and pretend that everything's okay and pretend that that's doing what, what 209 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,960 Jesus wants because Jesus doesn't want me to be angry. 210 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:21,920 It's like, well, Jesus and I mean, we see it all over in the Old Testament that God 211 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:32,360 is passionate about righteousness being spread throughout our hearts, throughout the world. 212 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:37,200 And if there's, if there's evil going on, if there's things that are not right, he's 213 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:42,080 passionate, he can be angry to see the unrighteousness happen. 214 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:48,360 And so I don't feel like I figured that out by any stretch of the imagination, but I think 215 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:54,920 it would be, it would be very sad if, if, if any of us walk away from this discussion 216 00:15:54,920 --> 00:16:01,200 and think, oh, I've just got to, I've just got to suppress all of my intense emotions. 217 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,400 And if I feel indignation about evil, I should just need to suppress it, right? 218 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:06,400 Yeah. 219 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:11,840 There's, there's more to it than we'll just pretended everything's okay. 220 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:12,840 Yeah. 221 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,320 And you know, I really relate to what you're saying, Tim, when I was your age, I was much 222 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,280 more the same way. 223 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:20,280 Stuff it down. 224 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,080 Don't, don't let it out. 225 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,480 It's dangerous. 226 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,320 It's going to mess up a relationship. 227 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,920 And I was, as I was preparing for this, I was thinking about, I always think about songs. 228 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:36,240 I always think about my playlist songs that I have on Spotify. 229 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:43,320 And there's a verse from Don Henley where he says, there are people in your life who've 230 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:48,600 come and gone, they put you down, they hurt your pride. 231 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:53,560 You got to put it all behind you, baby, because life goes on. 232 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,480 You keep carrying that anger. 233 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,880 It'll eat you up inside. 234 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:08,880 And what I've learned as I've gotten older is my ability to suppress my anger has declined. 235 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:17,800 And I am, I am by nature, my sinful nature is meaner than it was when I was younger. 236 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:23,360 And I have a, I found a cup in the, in the room where we keep all the cups at work and 237 00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:26,080 it says Boston University mom. 238 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:27,080 And I love the cup. 239 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:28,080 It's a nice cup. 240 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,020 So I carry it around all the time. 241 00:17:30,020 --> 00:17:34,080 And one of my coworkers was laughing at me and said, you're a Boston University mom. 242 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,360 And I said, yeah, but it's an acronym. 243 00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:39,120 Some stands for mean old man. 244 00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:43,320 And because I think I am very mean. 245 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:50,280 And what I, what I think about when I think about what is the benefit of anger? 246 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:55,560 Because there is, there are some things that I should be angry about that I can act upon. 247 00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:00,400 The example of Jesus is that he sort of always contemplated. 248 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:07,960 He asked questions, he, I think of the woman caught in adultery and all the obviously hypocritical 249 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,000 men who brought her there. 250 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,440 He could have let them have it. 251 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,600 He knew exactly what was wrong in all of their lives. 252 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:21,120 And he could have just gone down the line and said, you did this and this and this, 253 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:22,840 how dare you? 254 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:29,240 And there's something in me that wish he had, but what he did was he just calmly. 255 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:34,960 And when Jesus does things like kneels down and writes in the dirt, I think that he is 256 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,800 restraining himself. 257 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:44,480 And but in restraining himself, also thinking what, what needs to happen here? 258 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,920 I need to address this in some way. 259 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,380 I need to filter this in some way. 260 00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:57,080 And then what comes out is perhaps one of the most convicting things he ever said. 261 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,320 Whoever has no sin in your life. 262 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:05,160 You throw the first stone and they all walk away one at a time because he completely disarmed 263 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,480 it and he did it without meanness. 264 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:16,200 He did it without an expression any expression of bitterness. 265 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:22,240 And I think that's what the thing that I am working on right now in my life is to take 266 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:31,680 that meanness that is sort of natural for me and to, uh, and not to tamp it down, but 267 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:41,920 to hold it back, to get it, to keep it, to keep it with me for a while, but to keep, 268 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,640 not to keep it, to tamp it down and try to suppress it, but to keep it and figure out 269 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,240 what good can God bring out of this? 270 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:55,040 And if there is none, then I just have to, like Don Henley said, put it all behind me 271 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,360 because sometimes there is none. 272 00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:02,080 If I'm, if I'm in traffic and somebody cuts me off and I get instantly angry, that's one 273 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,440 I just have to put behind me. 274 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:09,600 There's no, I can't track that guy down and resolve that anger with him. 275 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:16,560 But if I'm angry at my wife for something that she said, then I can hold that in and 276 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:23,760 figure out what needs to come out of that for her, for our relationship and then let 277 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:29,360 it come out in some way that will be beneficial for both of us. 278 00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:30,360 It's funny. 279 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:33,040 I think I, I'm similar. 280 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,240 I tend to take things inside. 281 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:36,240 It's funny. 282 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,080 I married someone who is totally the opposite in this department. 283 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:45,920 I mean, Netta has, um, I joke with her that she's so 100% extroverted that she has no 284 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,880 internal monologue, uh, but she's that way with anger too. 285 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,960 Uh, she will get angry at something and she'll let you know, you know, right away what she's 286 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:54,960 feeling. 287 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,320 And, uh, it's really funny. 288 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:04,720 I, so she's where she veers off into letting the anger come out and maybe sometimes taking 289 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,040 it too far. 290 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:12,360 I keep the anger inside, suck it all in, push it down. 291 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:15,800 And that's where the, the seeds of bitterness grow. 292 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:23,600 And that's, I would say, I mean, both are bad, but the bitterness freaks me out a little 293 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:31,480 bit more because it's, I can see it now in other people too, um, because it takes one 294 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:40,080 to know one, I guess, but it's something that is, it will destroy relationships and it is 295 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,360 a poison that, that will spread. 296 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:48,120 Because you'll, you'll have a bent towards something and then you'll filter if you are 297 00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:54,200 angry at someone and it's, it's a bitterness now, you will filter what they say through 298 00:21:54,200 --> 00:22:00,120 your lens of bitterness and you won't hear the good and you've judged, you're sitting 299 00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:04,680 in judgment on them and you feel justified, right? 300 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:11,480 In your anger that you've let into your heart to, to stew and it's a horrible destructive 301 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:17,920 place to be because, uh, if you spread that you could, you might start talking to someone, 302 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:24,160 a friend and can't believe how unfair this is, blah, blah, blah, vomit on them and they 303 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,920 start thinking, Oh yeah, that, that's not so good. 304 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,280 And that's how it starts. 305 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:35,320 And then they sell someone else and pretty soon you got all kinds of horrible evil that 306 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:41,080 is that you, your sinful heart has perpetrated. 307 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,920 So this is a dangerous thing. 308 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:50,200 And I think we started to get, I want to talk a little bit now about how we can weed out 309 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,840 anger and bitterness, but just to close the loop on what we were saying a minute ago, 310 00:22:54,840 --> 00:23:01,000 I think we, there is some, such a thing as, as righteous indignation where it's not about 311 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,600 you, you see sin and you're like, Nope, that's bad. 312 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:05,600 That is wrong. 313 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,560 And I think it's okay to be angry at something that is, that is wrong. 314 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:14,760 And I don't think that you should, that should then stop you from having communion, for instance, 315 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:22,840 like let's say you have a loved one who did something horrible to you, like really bad 316 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:27,080 to another loved one or something, you know something that, and it was horrible. 317 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:31,600 And when you think about that, that makes you angry. 318 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,920 But the sin was horrible and you should be angry at sin. 319 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:42,280 And so, you know, you can, I think you can still forgive this person in a sense, but 320 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,200 you don't have to be, I want to be careful here. 321 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:51,440 You don't, I don't think you have, I don't think being angry at sin should stop you from 322 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,760 having communion in that, that respect. 323 00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:05,160 As long as you've sorted out that relationship still, I think, you know, and I, and I do, 324 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:13,440 I think over time, maybe that, that pain that is kind of underlying can be healed too. 325 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:20,720 But let's go toward weeding out anger from our hearts, particularly bitterness. 326 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,000 How do we do that? 327 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:32,640 Well, I think to answer that, it helps to clarify what you guys just said, because Matt, you 328 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:39,320 were talking about holding anger in as a, and suppressing as a way of, it would, it 329 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,520 would be a breeding ground for bitterness. 330 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,960 But Van, you were talking about holding, you guys use the same language to mean two different 331 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:46,960 things. 332 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:58,280 You said holding anger in to allow yourself to see, is there anything here that is actually 333 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:03,120 true, or do I just need to get rid of it? 334 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:04,120 Right? 335 00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:08,280 And so that's kind of, one of them, Matt's version you were describing was like this 336 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:13,120 one step process of just stuff, and then it grows. 337 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:23,800 But when we allow ourselves to experience something and to feel something, and then to expose it 338 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:30,400 to the light, expose it to the Holy Spirit, and say, I'm really angry right now about 339 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,320 this thing. 340 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:37,720 And maybe that conversation happens just you and God, maybe that happens with someone else, 341 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,280 maybe it's a combo. 342 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:49,520 But it gets brought up, and it's in a spirit of, I don't want this to control me. 343 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:57,280 And I want to understand what is just me responding in a way that is sinful, or that is human 344 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:05,960 anger, and what part of it is, maybe has a kernel of righteousness that can be used 345 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:12,440 if I get rid of the parts of my anger that are not righteous. 346 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:18,600 And so coming, coming, bringing those things into the light, there's this process where 347 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:24,280 when if we have bitterness in our hearts, it's really, really ugly. 348 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,480 And we really don't want to really even acknowledge it to ourselves. 349 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,240 And we definitely don't want to tell God about it. 350 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,360 And we definitely don't want to tell other people because it's those things that we've 351 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:37,360 been thinking are just like really disgusting. 352 00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:42,360 And they often are irrational, you know, the scale to which we've, we've hold or holding 353 00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:45,760 on to something is often disproportionate to what it is. 354 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,480 I'm talking about, you know, small things. 355 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:52,840 And obviously, like you said, there's huge sins that there's tremendous hurts that I'd 356 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,120 say are a deeper conversation. 357 00:26:56,120 --> 00:27:04,000 But that's, that's my thought right now is, you know, if we walk in the light as he is 358 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,560 in the light, the promise is we have fellowship with one another. 359 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:13,560 No, that's, we got to bring those things, even if they're, they're ugly at first, we 360 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,240 got to bring these things into the light so that they can be exposed and they can be 361 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:18,240 purified. 362 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:19,240 Mm-hmm. 363 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:25,680 I, I, I love that you noticed that Tim, that we use the same, we use the same terminology 364 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,440 to say completely different things. 365 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:37,120 And I think that what Matt is talking about is suppressing anger. 366 00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:40,520 That doesn't work because it creates bitterness. 367 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:49,040 What I'm talking about is more, uh, ruminating on the anger that, you know, ruminating is 368 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,200 what a cow does with its cut. 369 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:57,440 It chews and chews and chews and then squallows into one of its, what does a cow have in like 370 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:58,440 nine stomachs? 371 00:27:58,440 --> 00:27:59,440 At least seven. 372 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,560 And then it comes back up and they chew it again. 373 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:07,160 And it's sort of like my thought with how do you deal with anger is that you ruminate 374 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:08,600 on it. 375 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,240 You, you maybe not hold it. 376 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:19,040 You don't hold on to it, but you, you, or you hold on to it, but you don't hold it in. 377 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,720 You hold on to it in the sense that you don't release it on anybody. 378 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:29,400 You don't, you don't act upon it, but you hold it in to say, like you were saying, to 379 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,760 say, Oh, look at this. 380 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:32,760 This is anger. 381 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,280 This is messy. 382 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,480 This is, uh, potentially dangerous. 383 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:42,520 This is also, but like you said, there's a, maybe there's a kernel of righteousness in 384 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:43,520 it. 385 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:49,840 Maybe I'm angry at some very, uh, real tangible identifiable sin. 386 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,440 Let me look at this. 387 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:56,760 And if after looking at it, I want to suppress it before I try to suppress it, I should come 388 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,320 to Tim and say, Hey, Tim, look at this. 389 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:04,880 What do you, what do you think I should go to God and say, God, look at this. 390 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:05,960 Am I, am I right? 391 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,960 Or am I wrong? 392 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,000 Lead me to some scripture, lead me to somebody in fellowship who can help me with this. 393 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:17,800 And I deal with it until I've dealt with it. 394 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,560 And that way I've put it behind me. 395 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,840 I have not suppressed it. 396 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,280 I have gotten past it. 397 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:30,840 I have either used it for what it's useful for or determined that it's useless. 398 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:38,800 So, and that gets to the being quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry. 399 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:43,760 You're giving it that space between here's something that's happened and here's how I'm 400 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,240 going to react. 401 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,480 And there is that space between where, where God, I think wants us to use our minds to 402 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,800 control our bodies and, and what we do. 403 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:59,120 And those thoughts that we produce should, should lead to emotions. 404 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,720 And I guess where I'd want to, because we're over time here, but where I'd want to end 405 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:08,560 this, I think, and I love you, how you talk, bringing this out into the light. 406 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,400 That is totally right. 407 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,960 We should not let things fester in darkness at all. 408 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,000 Even if it's painful and it hurts to expose, do it. 409 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:24,800 Because you, that's the only way to heal is to get the light in there. 410 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:30,080 But I think in all of this, there is an element of entrusting ourselves to God, entrusting 411 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,920 to him, just what Jesus did. 412 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:36,480 He entrusted himself to him who judges justly, that we don't have to be the ones that are, 413 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,640 are in that seat, that we can give this to God. 414 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,120 We can roll it on to God, on his shoulders. 415 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,480 And we don't have to take it on ours. 416 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,440 This has been great. 417 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:51,440 Thank you so much. 418 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,520 It's been a pleasure, guys. 419 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:54,920 great conversation.