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Hey, I'm Matt Brownell.

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And I'm Van Owens.

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And I'm Tim Adams.

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Welcome to Climbing the Mountain, where we dive into the scriptures and discuss themes,

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connections, and real life application.

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We're kicking off a series here where we're going to examine the Sermon on the Mount and

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discuss implications for this teaching for Christians today.

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Awesome.

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Okay, I'm really excited about the topic for tonight.

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It's fulfilling the law.

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And you know, I realized something after the last couple of ones we were doing, you asked

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a really good question, Tim.

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What do you mean by the law?

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And we're all like, yeah, that's a good question.

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And then we never explained what we actually mean by that.

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And it's actually a really good question to start off for this topic, fulfilling the law,

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because we should be clear about what we mean.

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And I think the confusion is that when you go to the New Testament, the law can mean

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like three different things.

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So it could mean the first five books of Moses, you know, the Pentateuch or the Torah.

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And you have different examples of that in Luke 24, where Jesus kind of lays out the

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different, you know, everything had to be fulfilled about me from the law, the prophets,

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and the Psalms.

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And he's just highlighted the three main sections of the Hebrew Bible, right?

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You've got the Torah, the law, you've got the wisdom, or sometimes I've heard it, the

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books of David and the books of Moses, right, so you've got the wisdom stuff and Psalms.

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And then you've got the prophets.

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And so those are the three main sections of the Hebrew Bible.

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But sometimes it can also just mean the whole, the law can refer to the whole Hebrew Bible

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too.

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And so that's also a little confusing, but you can see that in places like in Romans.

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Romans has a really funny few chapters between chapter three and six.

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You get the, you highlight the difference and the confusion, I think, because in Romans

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3.31, Paul writes, Do we then overthrow the law by faith?

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By no means.

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On the contrary, we uphold the law.

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And then just a few chapters later in Romans 6.14, he says, you are no, you are no longer

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under law, but under grace.

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And so I don't know, what is it, Paul?

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And so I think the other thing, the other way it's used as the whole law is kind of

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highlighted in that chapter three.

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In verse 19, Paul just gets done quoting several Psalms and Isaiah, and then he writes, Now

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we know that whatever the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law.

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So Psalms, prophets, those are different sections of the Hebrew Bible, but he just says the

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law.

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And so we've got those two examples.

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Now we got a third one, and this is where it gets tricky.

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And that's what I think he means by in chapter six, we're no longer under law.

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In the Greek New Testament, there's no word for legalism.

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And that itself can be a charged religious word too.

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You call someone legalistic and it's like, you know, a lightning rod.

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But I think what, so we should maybe just define what that is too, but you'll find oftentimes

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this word works of the law.

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And I think that's what Paul is meaning by legalism.

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He's combined that, he's made that phrase, but sometimes, and this is where it gets really

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confusing, he just says law, you're no longer under law.

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But what he means is this legalistic kind of, now I've turned the Old Testament into a job

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description where I'm going to try to merit God's approval instead of I have faith.

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And I think that's the distinction.

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And I think we can maybe tease out some of that tonight.

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That's something I kind of want to come back to.

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But just to start off, we should say what we mean by law, that, you know, there's different

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ways of looking at it.

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So when we get to Matthew 5:17, which is where I want to start here, Jesus, again, we're

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in the Sermon of the Mount, right?

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And this kind of pivotal moment, he says, do not think I have come to abolish the law

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or the prophets.

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I've not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.

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And that's what we want to, what do you mean, Jesus?

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What do you mean by fulfill them?

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And first, I want to highlight, I think, something that maybe should be said from the get-go

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is that maybe Jesus, him saying, do not think I've come to abolish the law or prophets.

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Maybe he said that because people might have been thinking he was trying to do exactly

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that.

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And I think that there are a few examples that we could probably think of where, you

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know, on several occasions, and I think the Sabbath is probably the easiest one to think

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of, it seems like he is putting aside one of the chief, you know, one of the Decalogue,

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one of the Ten Commandments.

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And I think maybe that's where we should start here.

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What do you think, you know, this would be one of the chief accusations against Jesus

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that he violated the Sabbath?

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He was himself a lawbreaker.

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How are we to view what he was doing with the Sabbath before we can get even to, you

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know, fulfilling the law?

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You know, how do we handle that accusation against him?

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So I think the key here is probably in the fact that, so it says in Matthew 5, that Jesus

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came to fulfill the law.

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There's a passage in Romans chapter 10 in verse 4 that says that Christ is the culmination

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of the law.

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And this set me sort of on a tangent in my thoughts.

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And forgive me if I get a little science fiction-y on this one, but it's how my mind works.

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Jesus is sort of outside of time in ways.

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So when Jesus says, I am the fulfillment of the law, that means that it's complete.

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He's, it's everything's done from Jesus' perspective.

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But also there are themes and passages in the way that Jesus has spoken out about as

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the one who was and is and is to come.

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And he's all of those things simultaneously.

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And so he's outside of time.

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So it's fulfilled from his perspective.

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But we who are inside of time are still sort of somewhere along that path of fulfillment.

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And I think that we're somewhere along that path as all of humanity and that each of us

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individually are sort of somewhere along that path.

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And so I think that, you know, Jesus saying that I have come to fulfill the law means

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all of that all at once.

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And it becomes a very, so it means you can take it personally, you can take it corporately

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as a church, you can take it as all of humanity that Jesus is, that Jesus is the fulfillment,

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but it's still being fulfilled.

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And so I think of it in that way.

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I hope I haven't obfuscated the issue a little bit.

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This is a really interesting diversion.

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So the temporal nature of our existence and the working of, I mean, you're right, God

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is outside of time, but interacts in time.

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And Jesus, you know, that is something that is, you know, really hard for my primitive

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three-dimensional brain to comprehend how God could see all of existence and all of

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time all at once, but then interact in time.

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And then even for our prayers to matter in time for him who's outside of time to then

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interact in time after our prayers.

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But what does after even mean?

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Right.

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Yeah.

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I don't know.

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Right.

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That's like, whoo!

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That's like a whole, whole nother like can of worms.

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But there is a little snippet from C.S. Lewis where he talks about our prayers are part

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of the infinite number of coordinates with which God orders the universe.

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Yeah.

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I find that that's my really quick, pithy answer.

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I was thinking of miracles.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I like that book.

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But there's, I think, going back to this idea of fulfilling, I actually have a challenge

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directly answering it, the question on the Sabbath.

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And I'm hoping that in this conversation that we can kind of hash that out.

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But one of the things I want to couch it in is when we see the word fulfill like in Matthew,

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first of all, that happens like a bunch in Matthew.

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Like there's, I think I'm looking at my notes from a little while ago, it's like 17 different

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times in Matthew.

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We get that, the Greek word that there is translated fulfill.

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And it's used like 90 different times in the New Testament as a whole.

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And so coming a little bit like down from the parallel universe world, like I just found

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it useful, okay, what are the different ways in which this word is used?

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And some of it's just like literally fill like a net, right?

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They talk about filling Peter's nets and pulling it up on the beach.

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That's like one very straightforward use.

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Then there's like the idea of completing or finishing.

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So that same word that's translated fulfill, it says when we had completed all his teaching

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in the hearing of the people, he went to Capernaum.

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But then it's also used in James 2, 23, where it says the scripture was fulfilled, which

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said that Abraham believed God and it was like imputed unto him as righteousness.

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And that's referring back, I think this is that basically the climax or culmination that

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you were talking about Van, because it's referring to how Abraham had faith to offer Isaac on

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the altar and that action and the faith that made that action possible fulfilled Abraham

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before believing that God would give him offspring.

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That would be as numerous as the sands on the seashore..

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So it wasn't that Abraham didn't believe God before.

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It's that this is, I think the culmination is like a really good word.

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And this is the culmination of that belief that even in the face of seemingly contradictory

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evidence, Abraham continued to believe.

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And so he fulfilled his belief.

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And so I think there's a strong argument that that's like we have to talk about what Jesus

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meant by it, but I think that the scope of this word meaning that feels very grounded

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in how the scriptures use that word.

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I'm so excited by what you just drew out there because I had a lot of thoughts about, I kept

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coming back to faith too.

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And the righteous will live by faith.

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And I think there's so much in there.

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But and I'm tempted to go back to the like the time thing because I love that kind of

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stuff.

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But I do, and I do think there is this, what I heard in there, Van was that there's this

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process that happens to with us and that we're taken at one point and then we're brought

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forward in Jesus, the Holy Spirit taking the word and writing in our hearts and us being

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transformed daily and more and more into Christ as we, you know.

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And so I think there's that dimension to it as well.

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But can we get back to, I want to focus a little bit on this, the law again, the actual

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and and get to, because I think this is an interesting thing when we talk about Jesus

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and his ministry, what was he doing?

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He was pushing things.

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I think he was polemic.

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You know, when I look at Matthew 15, now I'm going to say some things here that I don't

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know if all of our listeners, how they feel about Pharisees, but I actually appreciate

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some of the things they were doing, which, you know, in Matthew 15, he though he takes

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them to task.

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That's the one, of course, where, hey, your disciples aren't washing their hands.

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And the backstory behind that, I am sure if Jesus's disciples weren't washing their hands,

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it was because they were following their master who wasn't washing his hands.

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Now the backdrop behind that and why I think he used it as a kind of perfect setup for

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the Pharisees was that the Pharisees had done something really creative, I think, in a sense.

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I think there was a reaction.

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I'm going to try to keep this brief because I could, but there was a reaction to the Sadducees

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and the people who were in the temple who, you know, we had two groups that reacted to

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what they considered a corrupt system, you know.

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We had the Essenes who said, okay, I'm going to go off into the wilderness and we're going

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to be holy and bring about the Messiah and he'll cleanse the temple, just like it says

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in the Malachi, which sounds crazy, but actually happened.

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So I don't know.

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And then you had the Pharisees who said, okay, and they're responsible for a lot of the worship

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that the church ended up adopting in the way that they built up the synagogues and took

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the law and prophets and taught it in the synagogues and took it into life.

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But what they did, which I think that Jesus highlighted here, is they took some scriptures

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that were reserved for temple activities like the priest had to wash before he did a sacrifice,

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right?

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And the sacrifice was this meat offered on an altar, burnt up, and they take that and

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they say, okay, the table at your home now is the altar with the food on it and you must

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wash your hands before you eat this thing because we are now all the priests, the royal

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priesthood or whatever, they were taking this down.

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And so Jesus just played with that.

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To he used that example of what I'd call building a hedge around the Torah, not exactly, but

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like taking that that's another separate thing, but they would come up with rules that would,

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you know, be designed to even get you close to breaking the law, right?

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And so Jesus kind of cut through some of those.

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He used these things as avenues to say, look, you've missed the larger point and why do you

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forsake the commands to your own traditions, right?

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And I think in that we kind of have an avenue into the way that God is thinking about things

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that maybe we should, like in the case of the Sabbath, or in the case of this thing,

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we can't pit different rules against each other and God kind of expects us to prioritize

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things.

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You know, when he says that man was not made for the Sabbath, Sabbath was made for man,

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it's not an excuse for failing to do good.

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And with the hand washing and stuff, it's like, okay, you've done something now, great,

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but it's it doesn't, it means nothing when you're not taking care of your honoring your

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father and mother.

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He goes back to that.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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I think it's, it's interesting that you mentioned the Pharisees and the Sadducees and the Essenes.

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And I think it would be for people who don't understand those three different groups, that

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would be a good study, because I think there are a lot of parallels to today.

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You think of the Sadducees for us, the equivalent might be what some people call organized religion.

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And the ways that organized religion has become corrupt, powerless, and resembling more of

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the world than what's in the scriptures.

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And the Essenes are the people who just retreated.

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They're like the, they're like monks.

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They just go away and they say, we're going to have our own tiny little community.

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We're going to be religious.

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We're going to figure this out.

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And God is going to bring about change.

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And the Pharisees were there in the middle.

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They were sort of, we need to have religion, but we need to have practical on the ground.

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You're applying the scriptures to your own life kind of religion.

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And you know, I think that what Jesus is saying, the other thing that we have to keep in mind

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is that there's a lot of messianic fervor at this time.

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There's messiahs popping up all over the place.

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And there's a lot of unrest.

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There's political unrest, the social situation of the area where Jesus was there in Palestine

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was very volatile.

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And there was a lot of, there were a lot of messiahs popping up and mostly being squashed,

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killed by the Romans, but there's all this messianic activity.

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And so Jesus has to somehow differentiate himself from those three aspects of religion,

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but he also has to differentiate himself from all these other messiahs that are popping

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up.

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And when you, when you, when you read the passage about the Sabbath, and so Jesus is

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doing something different, something else is going on here.

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And he ends that passage by saying that, or in the, in the Mark chapter two version of

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it, that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

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And he's saying that it's a culmination.

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And I think it gets back to what you were saying, Tim, about all those definitions of

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fulfill when you think of, and you talked about the example of a fishnet, a full fishnet

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is a full fishnet the same thing as an empty fishnet?

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Well, yes and no, they don't look the same.

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They don't, they don't operate the same.

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And if you don't look closely, you might not even notice that they're the same thing.

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They might look like two completely different things.

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And the fishnet is that's just there.

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And if it's lying in a pile on the floor, you can't even tell what it is.

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But once it has fulfilled its purpose, then you understand it more.

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It's a completely different thing.

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And I think it in the process of all of this, something starts a certain way and this is

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getting back.

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I'm sort of trying to redeem my, my temporal, temporal Star Trek sort of out in the space

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kind of thing.

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I just moved into a new house and right behind me in the lot right behind our house, they

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built another new house almost exactly like mine, the same, the same plan.

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And it was fascinating to watch because when I first moved into my house, it was a, an

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unlevel patch of land and then they dug a big hole.

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And so it was just a patch of land and then it was just a big hole and then it was a hole

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with some concrete poured in it in a frame and then slowly it started to look like a

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house.

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And what was it before it was a house?

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Was it there?

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It wasn't always a house, but the house was sort of the fulfillment of all of that effort

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of all of that that was being poured in.

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And I think that one of the things that Jesus is saying here is that he, he is building the

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house.

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He is filling the fishnet.

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He's revealing to us what it really is and that he, and that he, and God had that happen

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in his timing when it was time for it to happen.

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And so yeah, I think that when Jesus, and you know, you, you read the passage in Mark

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chapter, Matthew chapter 12 of the disciples walking through and rubbing the grains, pulling,

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picking the grains and eating it.

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And technically, yeah, it's a violation of the Sabbath.

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They're working quote unquote.

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But I think Jesus is saying, this is a, this is a new thing.

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This is something different.

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This is, I'm revealing to you what the Sabbath was really meant for.

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And I think that's the way that he's going there.

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As you were saying that Van, it made me think about Matthew 13 where Jesus is basically

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giving a bunch of parables.

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And at the end of those parables, he asks, have you understood all these things?

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As the disciples say yes.

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And he says, therefore, every teacher of the law who has become a disciple in the kingdom

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of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his new, out of his storeroom

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new treasures as well as old.

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And this is interesting because Jesus is acknowledging the old treasures of the law, which the scribe

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or the teacher of the law is an expert in.

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But he's also saying, but I'm bringing you new things.

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And so you listen to my teaching, listen to my parables, they're going to give you something

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new.

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And I think also he, I mean, I don't know why he's talking about those scribes and teachers

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of the law unless he really must want them to get it right.

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Like, and he thinks that there's a lot that they know that is incredibly valuable that

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has been revealed to them through the old covenant.

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That's a really good point.

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He wants people to understand.

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Yeah.

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Because I've heard it.

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I've heard people talk about the old covenant like, oh, that's different.

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It's different than the new covenant, which is better, right?

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And it's based on better promises and by faith.

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And even the Abrahamic covenant, they think, oh, that's better too.

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Because look at this deal.

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This is a great deal, right?

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Except I don't look at, I think we're missing something if we don't see it as something

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that was just as important and just as like God is the same yesterday and today and forever.

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And so why would he do something completely different?

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That doesn't make any sense, right?

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But I like that verse that you mentioned from Matthew 13, because I often think about it

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like, oh man, Peter, 1 Peter talks about, 1Peter talks about how he's going to keep

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reminding people of these things, right?

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It's important to be reminded of things, but it's also important to dig new things out

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too.

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So, and specifically, it's certainly on the map, we are getting new things, right?

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We're getting down to the heart of the law, right?

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But I think if we compare and contrast these two, I think we might find more in common

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about what their foundations are.

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Unfortunately though, we're going to have to pick this thread up again next time when

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we return for part two of fulfilling the law.