1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,720 Hey, I'm Matt Brownell. 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,360 And I'm Van Owens. 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:11,760 And I'm Tim Adams. 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:18,000 Welcome to Climbing the Mountain, where we dive into the scriptures and discuss themes, 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,160 connections, and real life application. 6 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,800 We're kicking off a series here where we're going to examine the Sermon on the Mount and 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:37,800 discuss implications for this teaching for Christians today. 8 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,680 This is our inaugural podcast for the Sermon on the Mount. 9 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,120 We're titling this one, Laying Down the Law. 10 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,400 It's intended as a sort of provocative double entendre. 11 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:54,140 In Jesus's sermon, the law, is it the new covenant? 12 00:00:54,140 --> 00:00:57,560 Does it supersede the old covenant with God? 13 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,760 Is it just a new set of amendments? 14 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,040 Alternatively, should we view it entirely different? 15 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:06,200 Is it something else? 16 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:14,080 In many ways, this law, if it is our law of the new covenant, seems a whole lot tougher 17 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,120 than the first one. 18 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:23,480 And if Israel failed with the first one, what hope do we have of following a tougher one? 19 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:24,920 What does God expect? 20 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:25,920 Perfection? 21 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,520 So before we get into it, I want to set the table here with Romans 14. 22 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:35,600 There's room for debate on how we view this sermon. 23 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:42,800 And we all might not agree on everything all the time, but we totally welcome each other 24 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:48,120 and that the dialogue that we will have with each other, I'm excited about it. 25 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:55,680 And I believe we are fully convinced of each of our points of view, which we will reason 26 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:56,680 from Scripture. 27 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,680 I assume we will be doing a lot of reasoning because the Bible is reasonable. 28 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:08,120 And that said, we totally love and honor each other. 29 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:12,560 Why am I starting this podcast off with a warning? 30 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:17,600 I think it's because the sermon on the Mount elicits pretty strong and diverging reactions 31 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,320 from believers. 32 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:26,720 And at the heart of what we're kind of getting at tonight, I think is something from Hebrews 33 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:32,480 12:14, which says, without holiness, no one will see the Lord. 34 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:37,200 So before we get into anything else with this sermon, I think we need to understand how 35 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,880 we actually view it. 36 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,480 So first question. 37 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:48,080 Matthew and the Holy Spirit are writing to a very interesting audience, right? 38 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:54,000 On the one hand, you have a very clear Jewish audience, given the consistent refrain of 39 00:02:54,000 --> 00:03:00,160 Matthew, which is this happened to fulfill, and then you find a quote or illusion to prophecy 40 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:01,960 concerning the Messiah. 41 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,440 And the intended audience is probably first Jews. 42 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,800 But Matthew is an interesting character. 43 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:13,040 Not only does he quote and elude a lot of the Old Testament more than any other gospel, 44 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,280 he's also an outcast among his fellow Jews. 45 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,160 He was a tax collector. 46 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,760 No one liked tax collectors back then. 47 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:25,840 So and today, frankly, sorry, if you are a tax collector. 48 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:31,440 So the good news often relates to other outcasts as well. 49 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:37,720 And you see in Matthew, especially when we get to chapters 18 and 15, and then culminating 50 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,640 with the Great Commission of Go Into All Nations. 51 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:49,520 So this gospel, you could view it as one long narrative of what John writes in chapter 52 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:54,520 1:11, where he says that Jesus came to those who should have known him and received him, 53 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:55,520 but they didn't. 54 00:03:55,520 --> 00:04:03,360 But anyone who does receive him, who believes in him, can be called sons of God. 55 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:07,640 And so when we get to the sermon of the mat, we have, I think, both audiences in mind, 56 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:12,960 but the weight of it really comes from viewing it through a Jewish lens. 57 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,400 And the whole scene, if you look at Matthew, it's kind of amazing. 58 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:25,440 He organizes his gospel into five sections of teaching connected by narrative. 59 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:31,520 It's almost like he's doing a new five books of Moses, a new Torah. 60 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,160 And with that in mind, it's fascinating, the organization. 61 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:44,280 But with that in mind, that picture of Jesus when he goes up on that mount is hard to miss 62 00:04:44,280 --> 00:04:50,920 the illusions to Mount Sinai and Moses giving the people the law of the covenant. 63 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:59,040 So I think we should start there with all these weighty considerations, these allusions. 64 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,800 How are we to view Jesus's words? 65 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,200 Are we getting a new law of the kingdom of heaven? 66 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:06,680 Why yes or no? 67 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,840 Yeah, it's a really good question. 68 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:16,080 And when you talk about, when you say law now, there's such a strong reaction that we 69 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:20,000 have in our culture. 70 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:24,320 We don't like laws that are restricting our behavior. 71 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:33,600 And there is a rhetoric too that we see in the New Testament and talk about the law is 72 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:34,920 gone, the law is gone. 73 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,360 And so it's like, oh, a new law. 74 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,320 What could that even mean? 75 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,200 I thought that Paul said there's no law at all. 76 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:52,400 I think that's the backdrop in my mind of this discussion when we're talking about what 77 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,200 actually what do new law even look like? 78 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,640 I think that's an important distinction. 79 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,120 When you say law, what do you mean? 80 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:01,920 There's lots of ways of looking at that. 81 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:02,920 Right. 82 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,240 Yeah, and I think that there is a part of us. 83 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:12,800 And it's interesting with our group because the three of us represent three different 84 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,800 generations. 85 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:22,240 And I think that the sort of American perspective a lot is we like to think of things in terms 86 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:27,000 of our rights and not in terms of the law. 87 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,160 But that is sometimes a generational bias. 88 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:36,360 Sometimes you want, there's a part of me as being the oldest person in the room. 89 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,240 You know, I'm the, I'm the baby boomer here. 90 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:44,800 There's a part of me that wants to know what the rules are so that number one, I can follow 91 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,120 them. 92 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:52,680 But and number two, sometimes and number two, sometimes over weighs number one, I want to 93 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,280 make sure that they're followed. 94 00:06:55,280 --> 00:07:01,280 And so there's a, there's an aspect of this that is both of saying it's a new law that 95 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:05,760 is attractive to me because then I know everything's delineated. 96 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:11,960 I know what's expected, but there's a part of it that is also kind of repulsive to me 97 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,360 because I don't want to think about what laws I have to obey. 98 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,360 I want to think about what rights I have. 99 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:19,360 Yeah. 100 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:20,360 Yeah. 101 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,360 Don't tell me what to do. 102 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:23,360 Right. 103 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:24,360 Right. 104 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:25,360 Yeah. 105 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:33,200 When I, when I think about this, I think the first thing we have to be thinking about 106 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:34,760 is who's talking. 107 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:41,080 The sermon on the mouth is, is Jesus speaking to his disciples? 108 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:46,000 I went up on a mountainside and he sat down and began to teach them. 109 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:52,680 And we know from Matthew seven that when he finished, the people were amazed because 110 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,400 he's teaching with authority. 111 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:55,400 Yeah. 112 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:56,400 Right. 113 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:06,880 And there's a line in, in Matthew 23 where Jesus is saying, you should not be called 114 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:11,840 rabbi or you should not be called teacher because you have one rabbi. 115 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,440 You have one teacher and one instructor and that's the Messiah. 116 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:24,000 So whatever we call this sermon on the mouth, we have to know that it's our one instructor, 117 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,360 Jesus, teaching with us with authority. 118 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:35,760 And that has to, that has to be the foundation regardless of maybe what theological distinction 119 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,400 we may or may not put. 120 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,720 Is this a new law of a new covenant? 121 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,680 Is this some amendment? 122 00:08:42,680 --> 00:08:50,240 Whatever it is, there is strong authority from the person who has the ultimate authority 123 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:51,240 of our lives. 124 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:52,240 Right. 125 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:53,240 Right. 126 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:54,240 Yeah. 127 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,420 The church is built on the apostles teaching with Jesus being the chief cornerstone. 128 00:08:56,420 --> 00:09:01,480 So what we have here recorded is really special. 129 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:07,600 And I do think when you look at the way this is sandwiched between, I think it's Matthew 130 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:14,880 4:23 maybe and Matthew 9:35, they're almost identical. 131 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:22,760 They say something like, you know, he goes around teaching in all the synagogues in Galilee 132 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:26,640 and I think later all the other towns, but that might be the only difference. 133 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:31,800 But he's teaching in all their synagogues about the kingdom of heaven and then he's 134 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,080 healing all these diseases. 135 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:35,680 And then what does he do? 136 00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:41,120 Matthew writes and starts right away in chapter five and Jesus on the mouth teaching about 137 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:42,560 the kingdom of heaven. 138 00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:46,520 And then, you know, in chapters eight and nine, healing a bunch of people and then 139 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:47,520 he bookends it. 140 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:48,680 It's like a whole section. 141 00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:54,720 And so what he's saying here, yeah, I think is really important for us to listen to and 142 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,520 to understand what does it mean? 143 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,920 When I go back to the first question, what is the sermon on the Mount? 144 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:03,960 Is it a new law? 145 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,400 My one sentence answer is yes. 146 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,480 The sermon on the Mount is a new law for a new covenant. 147 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:17,120 And I mean, we have to first, if that's the claim, then you have to first say, Oh, is there 148 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:18,520 a new covenant? 149 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:25,240 And I think that's pretty easy to establish from scripture in Luke 22. 150 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:33,960 Jesus is at the Last Supper and he takes the cup and he says, this cup that has poured 151 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,880 out for you is the new covenant in my blood. 152 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:45,800 And he's hearkening back to Moses who sprinkles blood on the people to ratify the old covenant. 153 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:52,280 And that that parallel of Moses and Jesus that you had talked about, Matt at the beginning, 154 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:53,880 and that's all over the place. 155 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:54,880 Yeah, Matthew. 156 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:59,200 I mean, you've got both of them coming out out of Egypt. 157 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:04,240 You have them both turning water into red stuff, wine or blood. 158 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,680 You have both of them. 159 00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:15,440 If you think about the miracles, I mean, Jesus himself is just as Moses lifted up the serpent 160 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,720 in the desert so the Son of Man will be lifted up. 161 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:26,160 So all over the Gospels, there's this picture of Jesus as the new Moses. 162 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:34,160 And that's very deliberate because in Deuteronomy 18, Moses himself says there's going to be 163 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:40,800 a prophet like me who comes from the Israelites and you need to listen to him. 164 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:50,880 So I think we have very clear grounds to say Moses established the old covenant, but Jesus 165 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:55,720 is establishing the new covenant from his own mouth in Luke 22. 166 00:11:55,720 --> 00:12:05,320 And if there's a new covenant, then there are going to be new terms of that relationship 167 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,960 between God and his people. 168 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:15,920 And I think the Sermon on the Mount is one part of that new relationship. 169 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:22,760 Let's take a minute to think about that for a sec because I agree, it is one part. 170 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,720 But I'm wondering, it feels incomplete, right? 171 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:32,520 Just to say that Matthew 5 through 7 is the covenant. 172 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:37,680 Like you'd say, I mean, there are obvious allusions to the eight Beatitudes and the 173 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:41,600 Ten Commandments and then you get the teaching off of that. 174 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,640 But that seems very short. 175 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:52,080 And it reminds me, getting back to, I guess, did the old one fail? 176 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:53,520 I think no. 177 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,960 It was gospel still. 178 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:00,400 It was good news when God is on Mount Sinai with Moses. 179 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:08,400 He's describing himself as a forgiving God, a loving God, and that's really good. 180 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,760 That's great news. 181 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,760 But the failure was really with us, not keeping it. 182 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:22,560 And so that's why I think in Galatians 3, Paul talks about the law being a guardian 183 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:25,920 or a schoolmaster. 184 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:34,320 It was the person who would oversee the moral development of a child until he became a man. 185 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,240 They would never leave the house without this guardian. 186 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:44,240 But once we, and Paul's using it, I think in the allusion of, like now with Christ though, 187 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:50,040 the law was there to just bring you to Christ so that you could be justified by faith. 188 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:57,920 And so I think maybe the difference for me is that it's not just what he's saying, but 189 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,720 it's who he is too, part of that. 190 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:02,720 Right. 191 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,640 Yeah, I think that, and I agree with all of what you guys have said. 192 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:12,760 And when I contemplate that question, is this a new law? 193 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:20,000 My first answer is no, it's not because in my mind, there's a dichotomy between law and 194 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,000 gospel. 195 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:27,560 You know, the law came through Moses, grace and truth comes through Jesus Christ. 196 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:37,760 And I want to delineate that in my mind and say those are two different things. 197 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:43,080 But the answer is in some ways, as I contemplated this, getting ready for this, I thought, but 198 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:44,080 that's the answer. 199 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,000 The answer is yes and no. 200 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,560 No and yes. 201 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:57,800 And I think that part of the beauty of the Bible in general, and I think of the Sermon 202 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:02,280 of the Mount in particular, you've got that first part where Jesus goes up on the mountain 203 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,680 and he sits down and he begins to teach them. 204 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:13,960 And so there's a part of that that's just very practical, Western stuff. 205 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:18,880 He went up on the mountain because there was a big crowd of people and if he stayed down 206 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,680 there among them, they wouldn't all be able to hear him. 207 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,640 So he went up on the mountain just so that they could hear him. 208 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:30,960 And he sat down because he was going to be there for a while and he wanted to both sit 209 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:35,920 down so he could be there for a while, but also indicate to the people, I'm sitting down, 210 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,760 maybe you should sit down, we're going to be here for a little while. 211 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:43,620 So there's a very practical Western part of that. 212 00:15:43,620 --> 00:15:52,840 But then anybody who is versed at all in the Old Testament law recognizes that immediately 213 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:59,360 as an echoing back to Moses, to Mount Sinai. 214 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:07,200 And I think that, so part of what's going on here is that it's not, it is a new law 215 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:17,440 in that it is replacing the old law, yes, but it's also fulfilling that old law. 216 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,200 It's the next part. 217 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:31,040 It's the ongoing revelation of what Jesus is, of what God is revealing to us. 218 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:38,280 And there's that thread that you follow all the way from the very beginning of the Scriptures 219 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:47,700 through the Gospels and through the letters is, it is a new thing, but it's also an old 220 00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:48,700 thing. 221 00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:52,420 It is a new law, but it's also the old law. 222 00:16:52,420 --> 00:17:01,000 And the old law isn't applicable anymore, not because it was wrong, but because we're 223 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,200 moving along because the story is still being told. 224 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,600 Yeah, I like that. 225 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,600 There's this quote from Hebrews. 226 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,320 I kept on going back to Hebrews when I was trying to understand Matthew. 227 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,240 That was really interesting to me. 228 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:28,200 But in Hebrews 8, it talks about Jesus has obtained a superior ministry since the covenant 229 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:33,720 that He mediates is also better and is enacted on better promises. 230 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:38,400 You just referenced maybe the heart of Hebrews. 231 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,400 That's the pivot point of that whole book, chapter 8. 232 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:49,400 And the whole chaistic structure of that book, it is really, and it's got the longest quote 233 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:55,520 of all of the New Testament, of an Old Testament passage from Jeremiah. 234 00:17:55,520 --> 00:18:03,000 And I want to just read a little bit of it because I think it applies to what we're kind 235 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,000 of talking about right now. 236 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:11,800 So he's saying, and this is quoting Jeremiah 31, of course, the covenant that I, okay, 237 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:16,640 for this is Hebrews 8:10, for this is the covenant that I will make with the house of 238 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:23,280 Israel after those days declares the Lord, I will put my laws into their minds and write 239 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,560 them on their hearts. 240 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:34,600 I will be their God and they will be my people and they shall not teach each other saying, 241 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:41,760 know the Lord, for they shall all know me from the least of them to the greatest, for 242 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,040 I'll be merciful to their iniquities and I'll remember their sins no more. 243 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:50,200 And it's this, I think, wow, we're going, I'm pretty sure we're going to come back to 244 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:57,920 this because this knowing the Lord bit, I think is pretty, pretty important here. 245 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:07,040 But there's a difference here of writing the law onto our hearts, which I think, and this 246 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:12,320 to me is the difference between the old and new covenants. 247 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:19,480 Both of them were gospel, but for whatever reason, well, I think I could guess one reason, 248 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,160 one main reason. 249 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:27,840 The old covenant was gospel, the new covenant was gospel plus enablement through the Holy 250 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:33,320 Spirit, where the Holy Spirit takes those words and writes them onto our hearts and 251 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,520 minds. 252 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:41,760 And I think that shows to the world once and for all, we can't do it on our own. 253 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,400 We need God. 254 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,640 And this Holy Spirit, gift of the Holy Spirit is this incredible difference between the 255 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:48,640 two. 256 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:49,640 Wow. 257 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:50,640 Yeah. 258 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:58,840 And that gets at what you were saying in the beginning about if this is law, it's so much 259 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,320 harder than it was before. 260 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,800 It's so much more difficult. 261 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:10,960 It's, you know, Jesus will say, you know, you've heard it said, and then he announces 262 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,560 what the Old Testament law, then he says, but I say to you, and what he says is almost 263 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:20,160 every time, I think every time, much more difficult. 264 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:25,600 And I think that that's the piece that is important is that it's much more difficult, 265 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:30,480 but it's not us alone in our flesh having to do it. 266 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,160 It's the Holy Spirit acting in us as well. 267 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:42,960 And it's getting to our core or inner being and who we are, which was also a difference, 268 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:48,120 I think, you know, from the stone tablets to the creating hearts of flesh. 269 00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:53,240 I think this is what you just said, referencing like the all of these examples that Jesus 270 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,320 gives in Matthew five, they're all harder. 271 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:01,040 They're all harder than here's the letter of the law, getting down to your heart. 272 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:07,960 And it ties in, I think, one of the pivot points here in Matthew 5:19, where Jesus 273 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,080 is pretty serious about his words, right? 274 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:14,320 Therefore, anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others 275 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:19,520 accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches 276 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,400 these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 277 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:28,240 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers 278 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:33,960 of the law, you know, the pinnacle, right? 279 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,680 You know, unless your righteousness surpasses theirs, you will certainly not enter the kingdom 280 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,720 of heaven. 281 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:47,560 And that's where he then he goes on to give examples of and he uses several where you've 282 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:53,240 heard it said, but I say, you know, speaking like you said with him with authority, but 283 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,360 I say do this and it goes right to the heart. 284 00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:59,280 No, don't don't don't murder someone. 285 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:00,280 Yeah. 286 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,640 But don't even have hate in your heart. 287 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:09,600 Getting to the root cause of things at our core. 288 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,200 Yeah. 289 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:23,160 And and when we think about that, so there's a idea out there that I don't know if it's 290 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:31,080 Western or not, but I've definitely been exposed to it a lot in my own life where we just need 291 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:37,200 to teach people something and then they'll be convinced of that thing and then they'll 292 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:38,360 do it. 293 00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:43,720 That's kind of how our educational system is laid out. 294 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,280 That's there's so much persuasion out there. 295 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:51,280 Oh, I just need to give you the right information and then you're going to change the way that 296 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,640 you're acting. 297 00:22:53,640 --> 00:23:00,680 And it, I think what we're when we're talking with the Holy Spirit and how the Holy Spirit 298 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:06,120 is coming into play here, it's not just the information, although the information is important. 299 00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:10,000 I mean, Paul talks about how can they believe if they have not heard, right? 300 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:18,280 So there's an important part of information, but there's also this very real part of we 301 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:19,760 need help. 302 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:28,960 We need a heart change in order to be the kingdom of priests that God calls us to be. 303 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,720 And he's been calling us forever, right? 304 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:36,720 I mean, he called, he said in Exodus, you'll be a kingdom of priests to the people. 305 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,600 And then in 1 Peter, we're called a kingdom of priests now. 306 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:50,040 So he's always wanted us to be this people that are bringing in the new creation that 307 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:56,080 are restoring the world that are mediating between the world and God. 308 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:04,160 But we needed several things for that to happen, for that to even be a possibility. 309 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,720 And one of the things I think we need is Jesus' teaching. 310 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:14,040 We need to understand the fullness of what God intends for his people. 311 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:18,000 I think that's what we see not just in the Sermon on the Mount, but the Sermon on the 312 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:25,160 Mount is a one place where a lot of those threads come together. 313 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,520 But we also need the work of the Holy Spirit, right? 314 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,960 We need the Holy Spirit helping us and guiding us. 315 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:42,680 And actually it was cool to look in John 14 where he literally says, Jesus asked the Father 316 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:47,040 and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever, the spirit of 317 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,040 truth. 318 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:53,200 I didn't actually know until I came back here today and reread this as the spirit's going 319 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,200 to help you. 320 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:55,200 Yeah. 321 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,520 That was so encouraging for me. 322 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,440 I really like what you're saying there, Tim. 323 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:07,520 And I like what you're saying about the difference between just having the information because 324 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:15,360 we are a society that really values the information and we think that information is what we need. 325 00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:20,760 And it branches back to, I think, what you were saying earlier, Tim, about we in some 326 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:27,920 ways, whether you consider this law or not, the main consideration is who is it coming 327 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,760 from and what authority he has, who he is. 328 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:40,360 It reminded me of this passage in Luke where just thinking about information and where 329 00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:47,280 it's coming from, where Jesus is with us, when he's calling the first disciples. 330 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:53,280 In Luke chapter five, he tells them in verse four, it says, when he finished speaking, 331 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,520 he said to Simon, put out into deep water and let down your nets for a catch. 332 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:03,480 Simon answered, Master, we've worked hard all night and haven't caught anything. 333 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:04,480 That's the information. 334 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,320 I'm a fisherman. 335 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:12,160 We worked all night when you're supposed to fish and we haven't caught anything. 336 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:17,360 But he says, but because you say so, I will let down the nets. 337 00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:23,680 And I think that we have to think about the fact that it's not just information. 338 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:28,040 There's a part of me that says, if I could just memorize, there was a point in my Christian 339 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:35,000 life where I thought, if I could just memorize the Sermon on the Mount, I would have it. 340 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,360 I'd be there. 341 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:44,840 I will have arrived because that is all the information you need to be a Christian, to 342 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:46,000 be right with God. 343 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,000 It's all right there. 344 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,920 And I don't know if I've made that up myself in my own mind or I heard somebody say that 345 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,440 or whatever conclusion. 346 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,000 That's the conclusion that I came to. 347 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,400 And so I dedicated myself to trying to do that. 348 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:05,720 And I memorized good portions of it, but it didn't do anything for me because I was thinking 349 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,880 I just need the information. 350 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:14,600 What I needed was, yes, the information I needed the message, but I also needed the Holy Spirit 351 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:15,760 helping me. 352 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,680 And I needed to understand that this was not just a group of a bunch of rules that were 353 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,960 set down randomly. 354 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,880 These came from the mouth of Jesus. 355 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,160 This was him giving us that word. 356 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,760 The word that he gives is more than just information. 357 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:32,760 It's life. 358 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:33,760 Yeah. 359 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:39,480 And I love that passage you quoted to from John 14 because I think it gets at the heart 360 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,280 of this process of sanctification, right? 361 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:43,800 What the Holy Spirit does with this. 362 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:48,800 After we've been born by the word of truth, we've been given life. 363 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,720 And then he comes in and he reminds us of those things. 364 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:58,000 And he's our helper because he's with us and dwelling us. 365 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:07,200 And I think the point that Jesus starts off with is if you love me, then you'll keep my 366 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:08,200 commandments, right? 367 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,200 You'll obey me. 368 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,240 Yes, that was right before that part about the Holy Spirit. 369 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:19,400 And I think it's important to know that love does not equal obedience. 370 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,680 Love precedes obedience. 371 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:28,800 But the obedience is the fruit of you loving. 372 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:34,800 If you've got a disobedient life, you've got to wonder how much you actually love Jesus 373 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,760 versus how much you love yourself. 374 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:44,880 And the Holy Spirit will be there to convict you of these kind of things if he needs to. 375 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,920 But I do think it's serious. 376 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:53,000 I'm realizing we've talked already quite a bit. 377 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,800 Maybe we should do a part two here. 378 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,240 And this has really been fascinating. 379 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,160 I think there's a lot more to cover here. 380 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,720 Yeah, let's pick it back up another time. 381 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:07,720 For sure. 382 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:21,360 I'm excited.