1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,360 Before you start this episode, a quick advisory. Today's episode does cover 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:10,920 sexual assault, child abuse, suicide, and self-harm. This may be a lot for some 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:15,680 listeners that is completely okay and we hope to have you back next episode. 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,680 Listener discretion is advised. 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:24,560 He told how he liked to wash the bodies and keep them for company, sometimes 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,560 talking to them and sleeping with them for weeks after the killing. 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,560 They asked me how many of them were and I didn't really ask them a figure. 8 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,560 Because I was cooperating with the police and I decided I'll stick with it. 9 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,560 There were three of those victims who were invented just to compliment 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,560 the continuity of evidence of the police because they wanted to keep them happy. 11 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,560 On a weekend I would pull on the floorboards and I found it totally unpleasant. 12 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:56,560 I would get blinding drunk so I could face it and start this section on the kitchen floor. 13 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,560 Hello all of you strange and beautiful people. 14 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:06,560 I'm Kendall Hudson and you are listening to When the Light Goes Out. 15 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:24,560 Welcome back everyone to another episode of When the Light Goes Out. 16 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:32,560 This is your episode 27 which is another piece to our crazy case that we had started. 17 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:40,560 If you're listening to the order of the days that this comes out, you will know that I had released. 18 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:47,560 Dennis Wilson, the British Jeffrey Dahmer just a couple of days ago. 19 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:55,560 Here we are now for our part 2 of Dennis Wilson, the Muscle Heal Murders. 20 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,560 I really hope that you guys all liked the first part. 21 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:04,560 Again, I think I might have said this before but let me know what you think about that. 22 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,560 That was my first time doing a solo session. 23 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,560 It was very nerve wracking. 24 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,560 I don't know if you could tell my voice at first. 25 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:13,560 I was very, very nervous. 26 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:18,560 Even doing 27 episodes now I still get nervous doing this sometimes. 27 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:24,560 I definitely enjoyed it and we'll talk a little more about what this could look like for the future. 28 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,560 Bree will definitely be back. 29 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,560 That is one thing. 30 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,560 I definitely like doing this. 31 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:31,560 It's kind of fun. 32 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,560 Yeah, there's that. 33 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,560 I don't want to hold up too much time today with just my own banter. 34 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:43,560 Before we get started, I went to go see Scream 6 the other day. 35 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,560 Oh my God. 36 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:46,560 Go see it. 37 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:51,560 If you guys are horror movie fans, if you guys like the Scream franchise, I think this is one of the better ones. 38 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:52,560 Just my opinion. 39 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,560 You know me and my horror movies love them. 40 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,560 Oh my God, I just loved it. 41 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,560 I definitely would say it's a recommended movie to go see. 42 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:07,560 And yeah, that is all the horror movie topic talk I have for that. 43 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:08,560 Let's not waste too much time. 44 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,560 Let's go straight into our story. 45 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:18,560 So hopefully by now you've listened to part one of The Denys Nielsen. 46 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:24,560 And if you haven't, I would say go back, listen to it, and then come back to this episode. 47 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:33,560 Thanks for all those who have continued our story continues on March of 1982. 48 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:42,560 And the West End of London at Lester Square, which is a notable area where a lot of British musicians got their start. 49 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:47,560 There was a pub that 23 year old John Howlett have frequented around the time. 50 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:55,560 Pub workers and other regulars knew John to be a cool, laid back guy that loved meeting people and loved to drink. 51 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:56,560 Me too. 52 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,560 I'm actually drinking an angry orchard. 53 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,560 I'm drinking an angry orchard as we do this, you know, to settle the chills. 54 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,560 So I get that John. 55 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:15,560 So he was told to be kind of a quirky guy that always wore a funny looking wool hat that Dennis Nielsen would actually have drinks with from time to time. 56 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:23,560 Well, these two were not close, but they would greet each other in passing or while both drinking at the pub. 57 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:32,560 Dennis even nicknamed him John the guardsman because of his tall, woolly hat that looks like the king's guard. 58 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:34,560 You will kind of see standing in front of the Buckingham Palace. 59 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:41,560 I'm sure you guys have seen, you know, pictures of them standing in the red coats or red suits, which site note. 60 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:49,560 I'm always amazed at the thought that the guards that do that are standing in like 100 degree weather sometimes during the summertime. 61 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,560 And they're wearing these bare skin hats. 62 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:52,560 It's just crazy to think about. 63 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:53,560 Sorry, site note. 64 00:04:53,560 --> 00:05:10,560 But any who March of 1982, John is chilling at his usual pub near Lester Square when in walks, Dennis, after several minutes of catching up after last seeing each other the previous year. 65 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:15,560 Dennis is like, Hey, man, why don't you ditch this pub, come to my new flat? 66 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,560 I promise I have more drinks me and we'll hang out. 67 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:19,560 Not a direct coat. 68 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,560 I had to throw in the mate. 69 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:22,560 Sorry, guys. 70 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:31,560 Now, no trusted sources could provide evidence that John was queer, but he did recognize Dennis and was kind of like, fuck it, free booze. 71 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:32,560 Why not? 72 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:40,560 So the two head over to Dennis's new flat that he just moved into 23 crainly gardens on Muswell Hill. 73 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,560 When they arrive, Dennis turns to the telly. 74 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,560 I can't stop using these British turns. 75 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:46,560 Don't hate me. 76 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:47,560 Everyone over there. 77 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:48,560 I'm sorry, guys. 78 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:55,560 They start to drink a bottle of rum that John had brought with him or they have brought or bought on the way to Dennis's flat. 79 00:05:55,560 --> 00:06:04,560 According to the ass himself, Dennis later claimed that John had gotten so intoxicated that he ended up dosing off on Dennis's bed. 80 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,560 And Dennis asked John to leave, but he didn't answer. 81 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,560 Again, that's according to Dennis. 82 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:21,560 About an hour later, Dennis attempts to rape John as he's unconscious but starts getting frustrated because the man is intoxicated and wasn't getting aroused by Dennis. 83 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,560 So what does Dennis do? 84 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:24,560 Hmm. 85 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:45,560 Dennis yanks apart a loose upholstery strap from a armchair in the room, hops on top of John and begins to strangle him with it, which John must have had the fight or fight or fight response even in the midst of unconsciousness because John actually wakes up from that nap that he was having and starts fighting back. 86 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:52,560 And if you look up photos of a upholstery strap, those things are thick, like thick padding. 87 00:06:52,560 --> 00:07:01,560 So it's amazing that John had the ability to fight back the way he did and especially see could because those look like they do some damage to someone. 88 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:02,560 I'm just saying. 89 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:11,560 So John is trying to overpower Dennis and he's also trying to strangle Dennis back, but Dennis reaches for the rum bottle and smashes it over John's head. 90 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,560 Dennis then goes into the bathroom to think about what to do next. 91 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:20,560 But in the next room, he hears that John is still murmuring. 92 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:27,560 So Dennis grabs the upholstery strap and then begins tightening it around his neck for three minutes. 93 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:33,560 Think about how long three minutes is choking someone for three minutes is a long time. 94 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:39,560 Eventually, John fell over, although still Dennis hurt John's heart still beating. 95 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:49,560 So he drags John's unconscious body into the bathroom, fills the bathtub with water and uses the weight of his body to hold John under the water until he was going to get up. 96 00:07:49,560 --> 00:08:00,560 He leaves John's body in the bathwater the next entire day and only moved his body to the wardrobe so that he could bathe in it. 97 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:01,560 I'm not kidding you. 98 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,560 Can't make this shit up. 99 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,560 He didn't do anything with his body for days because now he's on top. 100 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,560 He's not on the top floor now. 101 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,560 So he didn't want any neighbors to see him disposing of the body. 102 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,560 But eventually days later, Dennis found an idea. 103 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,560 This idea will later backfire. 104 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,560 Dennis took a day off of work just to dismember John. 105 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:32,560 He thought it would be the best idea to get rid of John's remains by flushing any fragments of bone and flesh that would fit down the toilet. 106 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:43,560 This piece of shit sitting in the hot summer sun then boils John's head, hands and feet in a large metal cooking pot to melt the skin off of, the bone. 107 00:08:43,560 --> 00:08:53,560 And then he fills the trash bags with deli-quested flesh and fills the bag with salt and places the trash bags into his wardrobe. 108 00:08:53,560 --> 00:09:07,560 Any of the larger bones that he couldn't break down or flesh, he then decided to go into the little gated backyard of the flat and just throw the bones over the fence into a waste area with tall grass that was behind the flat. 109 00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:11,560 Not one suspicion or witness came from this. 110 00:09:11,560 --> 00:09:15,560 Now let's move on to October 31st, 1982. 111 00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:21,560 By the way, this is the second October 31st in this case, which I find completely chilling. 112 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:27,560 The first October 31st case, if you remember, was Dennis's grandfather. 113 00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:30,560 He was found in the boat dead on October 31st. 114 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:34,560 Here we are again, October 31st, 1982. 115 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:43,560 A man by the name of Archibald Graham Allen had just had a very unsettling argument with his wife, Leslie Allen. 116 00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:47,560 He always went by the name Graham, so I'm just going to go by that. 117 00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:56,560 In a documentary that I stumbled upon called Memories of a Murderer, The Nelson Tapes, which you can also stream on Netflix, 118 00:09:56,560 --> 00:10:02,560 Graham's widowed wife Leslie shares that Graham had been a great husband. 119 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:06,560 They had a pretty poor household, but they may do. 120 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:16,560 But the biggest ongoing concern was that Graham had a huge reliance for some very hard drugs, and over time, Graham was changing. 121 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:25,560 On top of this, Graham and Leslie had a six-year-old son named Shane Levine, who is also in the documentary. 122 00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:32,560 I actually did some digging, or more digging, and found a blog that his son wrote talking about Shane. 123 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:34,560 He wrote this about his father. 124 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:40,560 The blog that I found, the site's name is called Memories of a Heroin Head. 125 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:42,560 Interesting name. 126 00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:50,560 Graham writes this long entry about what he remembers from that night, and just in general about who his father was. 127 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:57,560 Apparently, there was some notion about who his father was, people thought his father was when news reports came out about this. 128 00:10:57,560 --> 00:11:04,560 I think it's just cool that Shane really wanted to have his point of view about growing up with his father. 129 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:07,560 If you guys want to check that out, I definitely say check it out. It's interesting. 130 00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:12,560 I'll put it first in the show notes, so it's easier to find if you want to look at that. 131 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:16,560 But in it, he says, quote, about this night, quote, 132 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:21,560 I remember him arguing with my mother and demanding money for heroin. 133 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:26,560 He was drunk and cut, and she had taken refuge inside of the family house. 134 00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:33,560 His violent demands took place from outside, standing on the window ledge and shouting through the glass. 135 00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:41,560 He was hugged up there like some perverse embodied of Christ, black blood coming out of his mouth where he had punched his own face in, 136 00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:44,560 and screaming for my mother's purse. 137 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:48,560 That was the last sight either of my mom or I saw of him. 138 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:56,560 Well, that and then finally coming down before casually skipping the low garden wall and disappearing into the night. 139 00:11:56,560 --> 00:12:03,560 That image haunts my mother, and what haunts her even more were her very last words, quote, 140 00:12:03,560 --> 00:12:06,560 fuck off and never come back. 141 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:09,560 He didn't, unquote. 142 00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:16,560 I got chills from reading that I'm sure you guys did too. That is horrifying to even think about. 143 00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:26,560 Well, after Graham left his house that evening, he had walked several miles down the street to Shassebury Avenue when he finally tried to wave down a cab. 144 00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:32,560 Now, no cab stopped for him because he was clearly high and stumbling over. 145 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:45,560 So taken from witness testimony, they saw Graham really struggling in the street when a tall unidentified identifiable man had come up to Graham, 146 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:49,560 helped him up and walked off with him. 147 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:55,560 This was of course, Dennis Nielsen, and Dennis had invited Graham over to stay the night at his home. 148 00:12:55,560 --> 00:13:03,560 So Dennis brings him back to the flat on Mussel Hill where he cooks Graham some food, precisely it was an omelet, 149 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:08,560 and that kind of comes back later. If I can remember, I didn't put in my notes later, but it does come back later. 150 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:16,560 And while Graham is eating at the dentist's table, Dennis takes a piece of rope and begins to strangle him with it. 151 00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:26,560 This next part is very detailed and very go-task, so for warning, skip ahead if you may be a little hesitant towards this. 152 00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:38,560 After Dennis strangles Graham, he just leaves his body in the same spot for the next two days while Dennis just went to work until he could figure out how to dispose of his body without getting any neighbors' attention. 153 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:49,560 In between this time, Dennis had sat and watched TV with his corpse, and on the third day after Graham was murdered, Dennis dragged his corpse into his bedroom. 154 00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:51,560 Oh my god, this is really gross. 155 00:13:51,560 --> 00:14:01,560 He dragged his corpse into his bedroom, stripped some naked, covered his body in that talcum powder that Dennis had used when he was in the army on himself, 156 00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:09,560 forced his corpse to stand up in front of him and look at him in the mirror while he masturbated to him. 157 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:14,560 And I'm so sorry, that is literally the right-of-our version of what he did. 158 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:23,560 He had done so much terrible things to Graham that I personally don't feel comfortable hearing him out of my own mouth, so I probably won't go that far, 159 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:28,560 but believe that he did some really bad things to poor Graham. 160 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:36,560 Afterwards, Dennis dismembered the body in his bathtub, flushed what remains could be flushed down the toilet, 161 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:47,560 boiled the rest of his remains in a giant silver pot, and tossed any remaining remains over the fence into the waste area behind the flats. 162 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:52,560 So this all happened towards the end of October of 1982. 163 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:59,560 Police were not called on Graham's disappearance because initially his family expected him to eventually come back home. 164 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,560 They thought he would get himself together, come back home, he had done it before. 165 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:09,560 They figured he did it before he can do it again, which is just really sad to even think about. 166 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:16,560 I couldn't imagine how sad that must be for the family of Graham, and especially for the other victims thus far. 167 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:21,560 So this takes us to January 26, 1983. 168 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:26,560 So now we are two weeks away from where the story first started. 169 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:33,560 Nelson had murdered his final victim. This was a 20-year-old boy by the name of Stephen Sinclair. 170 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:40,560 Now, there is not a ton of information I could find about Stephen, about his background specifically, 171 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,560 but locals had known him to be a younger kid that may have been living on the streets, 172 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:49,560 and either ran away from home or was kicked out of his home maybe for sexuality reasons, 173 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,560 was notorious in the 80s, so it's not surprising. 174 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,560 Globally, too, I wouldn't say it's just here in the States. 175 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:03,560 To locals, Stephen was known as what they would call a rent boy. 176 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,560 This is just another term for a male prostitute. 177 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:12,560 Acquaintances of Stephen would later recount seeing Stephen the night of January 26 178 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:18,560 around Leicester Square heading down Oxford Street in the direction of the Tube Station, 179 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,560 which is another word for the London Transit System. 180 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:29,560 Now, there Stephen was stopped by a strange man with dark hair in glasses, and the two walked off together. 181 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:35,560 Well, with the promise of buying Stephen a hamburger, Dennis brought Stephen back to his place. 182 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,560 There, they drank some booze, and according to Dennis' confession tapes, 183 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,560 Stephen had taken Al Acerringe and shot up with heroin, 184 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:48,560 and fell almost instantly out of it while Dennis sat and just watched, 185 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,560 sorry, not watched, but just played some rock opera music, 186 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:57,560 which I have never heard of rock opera music before. 187 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:02,560 I'm sure it's amazing, and I'm sorry that I just ruined it by saying Dennis had to listen to that. 188 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:07,560 Now, again, according to Dennis, he knelt down beside Stephen with a ligature he had combined 189 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:12,560 with half rope and half dress tie, and whispered in Stephen's ear, quote, 190 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:17,560 Oh, Stephen, here we go again, unquote. 191 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,560 Fucking disgusting. 192 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:28,560 There are crime scene photos of this terrible tie rope contraption that he used that I will post on our Instagram as well. 193 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,560 So if you want to see that, you can go to our Instagram and look at that. 194 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:36,560 What really broke me was I was listening to the tapes, 195 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:43,560 and this is regarding a suicide attempt, so you can push that skip ahead button if this is too much. 196 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:49,560 I recognize within Dennis' thick Scottish accent, he later recounted strangling Stephen, 197 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:55,560 but after he noticed that there were these bandages covering Stephen's arms under his sleeves. 198 00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:00,560 When Dennis removed them, he saw gashes where he attempted to end his own life. 199 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:08,560 Like, I get choked up to saying that, but that's really sad, but, like, I have so many thoughts, 200 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,560 but I'm going to keep going. 201 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,560 Okay, you can come back now if you had skipped ahead. We're back. 202 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:20,560 So Dennis followed the same fucking ritual that he had followed up with the last two victims. 203 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:25,560 He raped the body, sleeps with it for several days, 204 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:30,560 and when the body got too ripe, he followed up by dismembering Stephen's body. 205 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:35,560 Afterwards, he flushes, cooks, and bags the remains. 206 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:39,560 And then just goes to work the next day like nothing happened. 207 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:43,560 February 4th, 1983 is where we're at. 208 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:49,560 Six days after Stephen Sinclair's murder, Dennis decides to write a letter to his state agents 209 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,560 and complaining about his trains getting clogged. 210 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:58,560 Let me tell you, this man had no idea he was the reason for this. 211 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,560 I don't know how this went over his head. 212 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:06,560 I would have, I don't know, but crazy enough other tenants have been calling about the same problem. 213 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,560 So whether it was Dennis, it would have been someone else either way. 214 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:16,560 So four days later, the agents get an employee from a plumbing company called Dino Raw to come and 215 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:23,560 inspect the problem. This employee was Michael Cataran, or Catran. Sorry if I butcher that. 216 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,560 After Michael is a little freaked out from finding what he thinks are animal bones and flesh, 217 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:33,560 he describes to the tenants that there are some fleshy substances and bone packed in the drain. 218 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,560 After he says this, Dennis jokes, quote, 219 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,560 Someone must have been flushing down their Kentucky fried chicken. 220 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:46,560 Direct fucking quote, that's not even a fucking made up quote. 221 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,560 He actually said that. It's crazy. 222 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:54,560 Whoa, I, I, I can't even, I can't even, like, are you fucking serious, dude? 223 00:19:54,560 --> 00:20:00,560 So our host of the man, Michael, tells the tenants, I have my supervisor and I return tomorrow morning 224 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,560 so we can clear out the drains. So they do just that. 225 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,560 The next day comes, they go into the manhole to clear out the pipes. 226 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:15,560 But mysteriously, it seems as if someone had already cleaned or tried to clean out the tons of substances 227 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:21,560 that was there before. After close examination, the Dino Raw employers, or sorry, workers, 228 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:27,560 realized that they didn't think this was just an animal, but they were right. 229 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:34,560 And the pipe that was specifically causing the issue led up to floor of flat 23. 230 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:41,560 So immediately that morning police are called. They arrive to see tenants hovering around the area 231 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:47,560 and eventually a pathologist is called in to confirm the remains are in fact human remains. 232 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:52,560 Also, yes, Dennis's dumbass tried to get rid of that evidence the previous night. 233 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:57,560 Luckily, another tenant from the bottom level of their building had seen Dennis, 234 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:03,560 very frantic and weird coming and going from his place that night, and said, quote, 235 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:09,560 hey, you may want to check this guy out. He is newer. He's a newer tenant and his name is Dennis. 236 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:16,560 So the two inspectors and one cop wait out about an hour and a half from Nelson to come back home 237 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,560 where they follow up with him to his flat for questioning. 238 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:26,560 Immediately before he even opened the door, the smell of decomp flooded through the doorway. 239 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,560 Now not everyone knows that the smell of decomp may smell like so. 240 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,560 Again, I don't even know what that smells like. I don't want to. But I think in the moment if you smelt it, 241 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:39,560 you wouldn't know it because you have never smelt it before. So these cops know what decomp smells like. 242 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,560 They work with us all the time. 243 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:49,560 So this is when inspector inspector J asked what the smell was to Dennis and Dennis kindly answered 244 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:54,560 what you're looking for is stored in the bags around the apartment. 245 00:21:54,560 --> 00:22:01,560 Inspector McCuster says stop messing around. Where's the rest of the body? So Dennis walks over to the bedroom, 246 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:06,560 points to the wardrobe, inside they find the two massive trash bags. 247 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:11,560 Dennis is then handcuffed and brought in under suspicion of murder on the way to the police station. 248 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:18,560 Inspector McCuster asks, are we talking about one body or two here? Dennis immediately replies, quote, 249 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:25,560 15 or 16 since 1978. 250 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:31,560 Dennis had a formal questioning and during Dennis had a full confession at the ready. 251 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:37,560 Dennis's questioning lasted over 30 hours within one week. That's how much he had to say. 252 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:45,560 Investigators did little to pull information out of him and just sat listening and recording every last murder that Dennis had committed. 253 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:55,560 And they are just in complete shock that no one suspected this man had murdered this many men and boys in a flat where other people lived. 254 00:22:55,560 --> 00:23:04,560 Dennis even led police back to the old flat that he used to live in. It was on the one on Melrose Avenue from part one. 255 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:12,560 And according to officials, he was happy and unbothered to show officials where he had buried his first dozen bodies 256 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,560 in this old garden under floorboards. 257 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:25,560 I don't think anyone moved into the flat he had lived in right after, but Dennis still lived in that building 258 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:32,560 and all the bodies had still been there at that time, all that time, just living there, just under the floorboards. 259 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:39,560 On everything that remains from the garden took weeks and to months because there are so many bone fragments in the dirt. 260 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:45,560 It wasn't just one different body that was just bone fragments everywhere. 261 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:51,560 But what is also insane are the amount of victims that Dennis either let leave or managed to escape. 262 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:59,560 According to murderpedia.com, many young men and even a woman came home with Nelson and left unharmed, 263 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:04,560 but a few just barely managed to escape. And some of those had made police reports. 264 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:12,560 A more thorough investigation may have saved some lives. Nelson claims that he had made seven attempts in which he was either 265 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:21,560 fought off or later changed his mind. He recalls the names of only four, but three of them had testified against him at trial. 266 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:28,560 So one of the victims we had mentioned in part one was Andrew Ho. This was October 1979. 267 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:35,560 He had filed a complaint with police by Andrew said Nelson had attacked him by Andrew decided not to make a written statement 268 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:40,560 or agreed to attend court as a witness. So there was no follow up on that. 269 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:46,560 One year later, Douglas Stewart said that Dennis had attacked him. 270 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:55,560 He had he said that he had fallen asleep in the armchair, waking to find his feet tied and Nelson putting a tie around his neck. 271 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,560 He fought back knocking Nelson over and Nelson had told him to leave. 272 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:05,560 He called the police to 195 Merrill's Ave on August 11th, 1980, around 4am. 273 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,560 But they noticed that he had been drinking. They knocked at the door. 274 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:15,560 Dennis seemed surprised by what they said. They figured it was a heterosexual thing. 275 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:22,560 Like I said, I'm sorry, not heterosexual homosexual thing. So they're like, oh, this is a gay thing we wouldn't understand. 276 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:31,560 So Stewart failed to follow up and he just, I guess, got cold feet, got worried, got nervous. 277 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:40,560 Who knows? But unfortunately, that was another victim on November 23rd, 1981, around Nelson's 36th birthday. 278 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:47,560 He took a 19 year old queer student by the name of Paul Knobbs back to his house and they started drinking together. 279 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:55,560 They went back, they went, then went to bed and Knobbs had woke up at 2.30 in the morning with a terrible headache. 280 00:25:55,560 --> 00:26:03,560 He woke up again at 6 and went into the kitchen and the mirror there he had saw a deep red mark across his throat. 281 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,560 The white of his eyes were bloodshot and his face looked really bruised. 282 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:13,560 Nelson had commented that he looked awful and advised him to see a doctor. 283 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:25,560 That day Knobbs visited the university infirmary and he learned that, um, yeah, what you have is called someone's wrinkle to you. 284 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:30,560 And so he, I don't know why, but he did kind to report this incident. 285 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:37,560 Now, again, I can't say why for these people and I don't want to speak for them. 286 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:48,560 I can only give maybe why I think they didn't want to. Again, I think it was because either it was a homosexual thing, you know, in the time of the 80s, homosexuality was a thing. 287 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:54,560 I think already over here in America, there was a whole satanic panic. 288 00:26:54,560 --> 00:27:04,560 So it was just like anything that was outside of the norm or quote unquote norm was just automatically seen as sinful or people just didn't want to deal with it. 289 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:12,560 I assume that a lot of these victims just got freaked out or just didn't want to say anything because they didn't want to, all these people is just being on their ass about this. 290 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,560 And so it's sad, but that's the thing. 291 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:23,560 So according to English law, the police have 48 hours to charge Nelson or they had to release him and they are just learning about all this shit. 292 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,560 So they just got to work as soon as they could. 293 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:33,560 They identified the remains of Nelson's victims or some of them, one of whom was positively identified as Graham. 294 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:46,560 And police had informed the wife of Graham Nestle, sorry, Leslie, that Graham had been murdered, which ironically, she had been learning about the serial killer on the news that same day. 295 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,560 Heartbreaking. 296 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:57,560 So on February 11th, 1983, Dennis was formally charged with the murder of Steven Sinclair and was held on remand until the trial date. 297 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:05,560 Remand is basically just custody. While being held, Dennis made his custody a living hell for other officers. 298 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:11,560 He refused to wear a prison uniform and he would just literally sit in his fucking cell naked. 299 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:19,560 And once he literally threw his feces at prison guards, which resulted in solitary confinement, which good for you, asshole. 300 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:29,560 So this shit bags trial started on October 24th, 1983 at the Old Bailey. The Old Bailey is actually a very well known historic court building in England. 301 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:34,560 And he was charged with six counts of murder and two of attempted murder. 302 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:45,560 The defense council, which was Ian Lawrence, really tried to argue that Dennis had suffered from diminished responsibility and the inability to form a reason to commit murder. 303 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:54,560 And that he should only be convicted of manslaughter. But the prosecution, which was Alan Green, says, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. 304 00:28:54,560 --> 00:29:03,560 This man knew what he was doing and killed his victims with premeditation, which I agree. He knew exactly what he was doing throughout and through and through. 305 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:14,560 He had yet many a times to say, I have to stop. I cannot do this anymore. No, he just continued doing this with a handful of just innocent people. 306 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:25,560 And maybe they were innocent. I guess, quote unquote, with morals or whatever. But come on, none of us are innocent when it comes down to it. 307 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:39,560 No one deserves to lose your life. The witnesses to testify for the prosecution were Douglas Stort, Paul Knobbs, and Carl Stodder, I think I'm saying that correctly, who were all the victims that managed to escape from Dennis, 308 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:52,560 not all the victims, but some of the victims. Detective J testified also to share that during Nelson's arrest, his 30 hour confession was very matter of fact, and that he had nowhere worse for what he had done. 309 00:29:52,560 --> 00:30:01,560 Again, I agree. You can look at these videos online very easily. It's very matter of the fact. It's very, yeah, he just goes on and on and on. 310 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:12,560 Like he's proud of himself. This asshole just does not care that he killed all these people. Also prior to the trial, two psychiatrists testified on behalf of the defense. 311 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:30,560 The first was James McKeith, who stated, quote, through a lack of emotion and development, Nelson experienced difficulty expressing any emotion other than anger and his tendency to treat other human beings as components of his fantasies. 312 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:50,560 Unquote. The second psychologist, the second psychiatrist, Patrick Galloway, diagnosed him with narcissistic personality disorder, stating, quote, in the episodic breakdowns, Nelson became predominantly chiseled acting and impulsive. 313 00:30:50,560 --> 00:31:14,560 Sorry, I said that we were on. Okay. The second psychologist, the second psychiatrist, Patrick Galloway diagnosed him with a narcissistic personality disorder, stating, quote, in episodic breakdowns, Nelson became predominantly chiseled acting in an impulsive, violent and sudden manner, which I also kind of agree. 314 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:23,560 I don't know. I can I have no comment on the narcissistic personality disorder part. I mean, sure. So whatever. 315 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:34,560 Following the closing arguments of both prosecution and defense, the jury retired to consider their verdict on the 3rd of November, 1983. 316 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:49,560 The following day, the jury returns with a majority verdict of guilty upon six counts of murder and one attempted murder with a unanimous verdict of guilty in relation to the attempted murder of knobs. 317 00:31:49,560 --> 00:32:02,560 The judge, which was Judge Chrome Johnson, since since Dennis to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 25 years at Wormwood Scrubs prison in West, West London. 318 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:14,560 And December of 1983, Dennis was caught on the face and chest with a razor blade from a another inmate named Albert Parkhurts, which go Albert. 319 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,560 Don't know what you did. You're asshole too, but good. 320 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:41,560 And then was transferred to Wakefield prison until 1990 and then was transferred again to Whitmore prison. And then finally full set in prison in 1991 as category eight prisoner where he was separated from any other prisoners because they would not stop beating his ass, where he lived until his death came on May 10th, 2018. 321 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:53,560 Now he died from a blood clot to that ruptured, causing a abdominal aortic aneurysm. So wow. But you know, rest in distress. 322 00:32:53,560 --> 00:33:11,560 If any of you wanted to see the actual pots that Dennis Nielsen used to melt flesh, it is on display at the Black Museum and New Scotland Yard, Victoria, where their displays literally a fucking replica of his kitchen. I kid you not. 323 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,560 I can cross pictures, I guess to this to. 324 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:32,560 Yikes. And I also found that towards the end of my research that they are seriously still selling pots and pans that he used to own online. I don't give a fuck what anyone says that's really messed up. Please don't do that. Don't don't buy that stuff. 325 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:50,560 Bad. No, no, no. And according to Entertainment Daily, as of 2016, a couple does live in the muscle heel home that they bought for 493,000 pounds. Wow. And. 326 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,560 Oh, wow. 327 00:33:52,560 --> 00:34:02,560 That's just crazy. Also, I did read something. Oh my God. I was meant to say that it does come back that Dennis during the whole trial period. 328 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:18,560 It was kind of discussed because I said that Dennis had all these confessions. Now one thing about this confession tapes. And one thing about serial killers that I hate is that they are always quick to tell everything from start to finish about how they did these 329 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:31,560 murders. It's always in their point of view, though, it's never the truth. Like half the stuff they did in specific are never all there. And I just want to say real quick to I didn't put this in my notes. I didn't want to forget it. 330 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:51,560 But it was during the trial period where Dennis had tried to, I guess, quote unquote, convince the jury that Graham had died in some weird way. And he didn't remember how he died because he said when he had been eating the omelette, he came back into the room 331 00:34:51,560 --> 00:35:06,560 and he just had the omelette falling out of his mouth and just sat there. Bullshit. We all know that was a lie. The jury saw right through it. It was all just false, all false. So that that was really just interesting because I was just thinking about how 332 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:21,560 wow, there's always always these fucking confessions and then they never and even like then it's just like, like, I feel like you never really know, obviously, because the victims are gone. So you can't really know. And these families don't have the right culture of just knowing 333 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:36,560 like what happened that situation. Why? Why how could this been avoided? It's just, it always just gets me every single time and and the victims just just learning about all these victims during this case. 334 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:55,560 And from start to finish was a lot. It took me a long time to research a lot of this. And so I really hope I gave the victims and enough background and enough gratitude towards their lives that I could have. I really wanted to tell the stories as 335 00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:14,560 I could without telling too much because this is a very, very dark case. And whenever you do a dark case, I try my best not to poke jokes at the case itself more towards maybe if anything, the killer, but also maybe in between just like something a little more satire 336 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:27,560 and just break the ice because it gets a little it gets a little uncomfortable. I get that. Well, everyone, that is the very chilling and horrific case of Scottish serial killer, Dennis Nelson. 337 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:44,560 I hope everyone enjoyed. Well, maybe not enjoyed, but found my way of telling this case interesting. I try to make it interesting as possible. Again, it took me a while to get this case done, but I wanted to do it right. I wanted to do it as authentic as possible. 338 00:36:44,560 --> 00:37:04,560 I know that hearing cases of some of the most fucked people in this world can be fascinating in the in the sense that monsters do exist in this world. They live among us and they are human beings. It makes me sometimes want to never leave my house, but unfortunately, sometimes we're even saving our own homes. 339 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:17,560 But I'm excited for next week's case that we will be covering. I believe Brie should be back. I did enjoy doing this session. So maybe in the future, we can do more. I don't know yet. 340 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:33,560 I'm continuing each week to construct our patreon on top of all the research. So it's a lot. I'm sorry. I really want us to come out with some patreon stuff. We have some really cool when the like those out things, like products and stuff that we're trying 341 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:54,560 to get out more to come with that later. And we will have options to have bonus content. We just need feedback from you guys. This we do this because we have listeners. So if you're listening to this, send me feedback as any way you can send some suggestions and thoughts. 342 00:37:54,560 --> 00:38:15,560 How did I do? Do you still like doing solo stuff? Do you still like hearing solo sessions? And if so, send some suggestions and thoughts. How did I do? Do all of you like these solo sessions? And if so, I'll do more and we'll look into that a little more in the future. 343 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:35,560 And also if some spooky shit or straight up scary shit has ever happened to you or anyone you know, write it, type it down, send it to us. We will love to collect a listener stories from all of our listeners or not maybe everybody, but most of our listeners until there are enough to read on the show. 344 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:52,560 So that's something we're really trying to build up to. You can stay anonymous if you want. You can mention your name, we'll mention you if you want that. And we'd be more than happy to get the community going here. That's something I really want going here, our community. 345 00:38:52,560 --> 00:39:13,560 So after a while, we can have that going for us. You can follow us on WTLGO podcast. You can send us any emails that you'd like to send us. That is WTLGO, WTLGO, inquiries at gmail.com. 346 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:41,560 Before we end this episode completely, just on top, I just remembered one thing to regarding the case. This is regarding Graham's son. I did read something else that I just came to mind about that his son had come under fire, I think recently with there is a, I don't know if it's a TV show or something on BBC, but I know that David Tennant, I think was starring as Dennis 347 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:59,560 Nielsen and his grandson did not like that at all. And I just thought it was really interesting too. I've never seen it. I don't even know what's out or not yet, but I know that it is really recent that this was a thing. So that was just some more recent news. 348 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:21,560 But yeah, I hope that you guys really like this hearing this case and thank you all for listening again. This is always like really scary to do sometimes because I always want to do it right. I'm always a little nervous because I do put so much time into a case and I just wonder, you know, did I do enough? 349 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:34,560 Did I reach everything? And again, this case is huge, a huge case. So there's so much more that I'm sure I didn't even touch on that is within it, but I wanted to hit on the biggest points. I think those are the most important points. 350 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:54,560 So that's what I try to stick on. Well, everyone, you have a great week. We will see you back here very soon. I'm going to go have some dinner because I'm hungry and we will see you next when the light goes out. See y'all soon. Bye.