to keep a list of everybody who's asking for
these because I think I'm running behind. I forget.
No, no, no, it's fine. Alright, so again we're
talking about eschatology. Eschatology just refers
to the end times and the study of the end times.
We've gone through three of the four views so
far and we're getting now to post -millennialism
and This is the one that you're probably least
familiar with. So last week on millennialism,
that was a new one for you. Now we get into post
-millennialism. This one's new. And you've got
your handouts there, so you can just start on
slide three. Hopefully we'll get the slides up
on the screen pretty soon, maybe. Technology,
good thing you got them in front of you. All
right, so post -millennialism, it holds that
the kingdom of God is now being extended in the
world through the preaching of the gospel. and
the saving work of the Holy Spirit. Eventually,
the world will be Christianized and the change
character of individuals will be reflected in
an uplifted social, economical, political, and
cultural life of mankind. So when you think about
post -millennialism, we've said this a number
of times now, post -millennialism, they are the
optimist, okay? Everything is hopeful, everything
is optimistic, and they think the world is increasingly
going to get better and better and better. But
they don't believe that this means that every
single individual will be saved. However, they
would say that the majority of the world will
become Christians. That the overwhelming majority
of the world will become Christians. And it means
that evil in all of its forms will be reduced
to negligible proportions. And that Christian
principles will be the rule. And that Christ
will return to a truly Christianized world. Post
-millennials believe that the Great Commission
refers not just to the proclamation of the gospel,
but an effectual change brought about through
the preaching of the gospel. And so the preaching
of the gospel will be effective in such a way
that the hearts and lives of nations will be
truly transformed by it. Now, one thing about
post -millennials, so they're saying... Jesus
has given us the great commission, go and make
disciples of all nations, and we would all agree
with that. Yes, we are to go. We are to make
disciples of all nations. They would say that
that command is not just about going to share
the gospel, but it is about the promise that
the nations will all actually become Christians,
and that these nations will begin to rule under
the law of God, and that they will be essentially
Christian nations. In fact, I read one post -millennial,
you'll see it here on slide 9. They maintain
that Christ will not and cannot return to His
church and say, well done, good and faithful
servant, until the task of global conversion.
has been accomplished. And so they believe that
this is Jesus' promise to His church. He's going
to return. He's going to say, well done, good
and faithful servant. And they say this cannot
be done. He cannot return until the world is
actually a Christian world. Only then will He
return. So what do they believe? They believe
that this present age will get continually better
throughout the years. until the vast majority
of the world has become converted to faith in
Christ. Once that has been accomplished, it then
merges slowly but surely into the Golden Age
of Christianity. This Golden Age of Christianity
is what they refer to as the Millennium. So we
all have heard about the Millennium. We've been
talking about the Millennium for four weeks now,
probably a little bit more than that, you know,
because we've been in Revelation for 18 years.
but we've been talking about the Millennium.
So their view of the Millennium is that it does
not refer to a thousand year period in which
Jesus will return on earth and rule here. And
it doesn't refer to the all millennial view that
it refers to the entire church age. They believe
the millennium refers to the time in which the
world has been fully converted to Christ. The
nations are ruling under the law of God. It is
the golden age of Christianity. And that period
of time, that millennium doesn't necessarily
have to be a literal thousand years. It's just
a metaphorical long time. And then Jesus will
eventually return. the golden age and millennium,
it will end with Jesus' return. And so, post
-millennials, they set forth this spiritual kingdom
in the hearts of man. Now, something that we've
been talking about, if you want just some more
words to put to it, the main type of post -millennialism
found today is theonomic, preterist, post -millennialism.
All right, so everybody's gonna remember that?
Yeah? No big words tonight, right? Theonomic,
preterist, Post -millennialism, theonomy, it
just refers to God's law and then so they would
say this is where they believe that the nations
will eventually rule under God's law because
they will be Christian nations, the governments
will be Christian governments and so theonomy
is just ruling in accordance with God's law.
Preterism comes from the Latin meaning gone by
and so the post -millennial understanding of
Revelation is that all of the events of Revelation
have already taken place. All of the events of
Revelation took place in the first century. They
believe that the Great Tribulation occurred during
the lives of those who heard Jesus speak about
the end times in Matthew 24. So in Matthew 24,
Jesus talks about the Great Tribulation and he
says that that generation will experience that.
And so they interpret that to mean that the Great
Tribulation has already taken place. It took
place in the first century. They would say the
reason Revelation speaks of events to transpire
soon is because those events were about to happen
in the lives of John's readers. So they maintain
that even the Antichrist was a first century
phenomenon. So essentially all the events of
Revelation in their perspective have already
taken place. The only thing I think they would
say that has not taken place would be the Golden
Age of Christianity, the Millennium, the unbinding
of Satan and the future rebellion, and then the
return of Jesus and the future judgment. But
pretty much everything else in Revelation, so
the first 19 chapters, they would say have already
taken place. They even say when Revelation speaks
of a 42 -month period, it's referring to the
42 -month long persecution under Nero, or the
42 -month long Jewish war with Rome, or the destruction
of the temple. Now, the hardest thing with post
-millennialism is when you're reading post -millennialists
or a defense of post -millennialism, and I've
read a lot of them, the hardest part is trying
to make the case using scripture. That is not
to say that their beliefs are unbiblical. That's
not what I'm saying. But trying to prove their
case with scripture seems to be difficult with
them. I read one post -millennial yesterday.
There's a chapter in a book, this, famous scholar
Lorraine Botner, he was writing this chapter
on post -millennialism. A whole defense of it,
and there was one reference to scripture in there.
And so as I'm interacting with that, I'm like,
this is really hard to critique or, you know,
I want to make the best case for post -millennialism.
That's what I'm doing here. I'm making the best
case for each of these views. It's hard. to make
the best case for something when someone's not
making the best case for themselves. So I'm gonna
try to help you understand where they get their
beliefs. So some scriptural foundation for post
-millennialism. A big one for them, Psalm 22,
27. All the ends of the earth will remember and
turn to the Lord and all the families of the
nations will bow down before him. Now, something
you'll notice with a lot of these scriptures
is that none of the other views would disagree
with this. We all believe this scripture is true.
Post -millennials would say that this takes place
during this earthly life, during the church age,
and so they would say that all of the families
of the nations are gonna come down and bow down
before Jesus now. They would not say this speaks
of some future date where Jesus returns or even
towards the end. but this is something happening
now. Another big one for them is Psalm chapter
2. As for me, I have set my king on Zion, my
holy hill. Ask of me, and I will make the nations
your heritage, and the ends of the earth your
possession. You shall break them with a rod of
iron, dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Now therefore, O kings, be wise, be warned, O
rulers of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear.
and rejoice with trembling kiss the sun lest
he be angry and you perish in the way for his
wrath is quickly kindled and blessed are all
who take refuge in him so again post -millennials
would argue that these verses do not predict
a future reign of christ after his return but
they speak of his present rule in such a way
that the nations will be his heritage now Kings
and rulers are told to serve God now because
all nations are expected to submit to Jesus now
so that the entire earth will become Christianized.
Another passage that I found in defense comes
from Isaiah chapter 2 verses 2 through 4. This
isn't in your handout, but you can just mark
it down to read later. But the verses say it
shall come to pass in the latter days. that the
mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established
at the highest of the mountains and shall be
lifted up above the hills and all nations shall
flow to it and many people shall come and say
come let us go up to the mountain of the Lord
and to the house of the God of Jacob that he
may teach us his ways and that we may walk in
his paths for out of Zion shall go the law in
the word of the Lord from Jerusalem He shall
judge between the nations and shall decide disputes
for many peoples, and they shall beat their swords
into plowshares and their spears into pruning
hooks. Nations shall not lift up sword against
nation, neither shall they learn war anymore."
So post -millennials would claim that when the
Bible speaks of latter days, it's referring to
the church age, not end times, but to the church
age, and since it refers to the latter days there,
they claim that now is the time when all nations
are going to flow to the church to worship the
Lord. They go on to say that you can clearly
see the Christian influence that has come upon
the nations because the nations are no longer
warring with each other. They're putting down
their instruments of war, and they are having
peace with each other, and it's because they
are flowing to the throne of God to receive instruction
from him. They also point to the parables of
Matthew chapter 13 as evidence for their view
and they claim that the parables of Matthew 13
show that God's kingdom will grow to encompass
the whole earth during the church age. So do
you remember any of the particular parables from
Matthew 13? Any of them stand out to you? That
sounds like my second born. Yeah, it's got the
four soils in there. It's also got the mustard
seed, you know? You sow something small, but
then it becomes this big plant, right? And then
you read about how something like the, what is
it? The stuff you put in bread, I'm blanking.
the yeast. Yeah, you put a little bit of yeast
and then it rises and so they point to the parables
and say, Jesus is teaching that you put something
smaller, here's something that starts small,
but it grows to encompass the whole world. And
they say that's clear evidence that though the
church starts small, the church will eventually
encompass the whole world and nations will turn
over to Christ. They would say their strongest
case comes from 1 Corinthians chapter 15. 1 Corinthians
chapter 15 says, for he must reign until he has
put all enemies under his feet. When all things
are subjected to him, then the son himself will
also be subjected to him who put all things in
subjection under him that God may be all in all.
Post -millennials argue that these verses clearly
show that Jesus' rule must extend to all nations
in such a way that the entire earth is brought
into subjection to Him. And once this universal
rule is achieved, then the end will come. So
that main verse that they really like to put
forward is, He must rule until He has put all
enemies under His feet. They would say, Jesus
is ruling and reigning now, and His rule must
extend in all of the nations until everything
is in subjection to Him. Now again, it is important
to note that I don't think you're going to find
anyone who disagrees with this verse. Whether
you're a dispensationalist, whether you're a
historic premill, whether you're an all -mill,
every single person that I know of who's a Christian
would say that Jesus is ruling and reigning now.
Does anyone in here disagree with that? No? Yeah,
everybody agree with that, yeah? Okay, let's
just make sure we're all on the same page. Jesus
is seated at the right hand of God. He is ruling
from on high. We're all in agreement there, right?
Jesus is ruling and reigning now. So no one disagrees
with that, but they would say he has to rule
until everything's in subjection to him. Therefore,
the whole earth, the whole world must be in subjection
to him. And that means that the whole world is
gonna become Christian. Not every individual,
but the majority of individuals. So when they
look at Revelation chapter 20, they agree with
the all -millennials that the thousand years
is metaphorical and symbolic. However, they believe
the millennium begins after the majority of the
world is converted to faith in Christ. Post -millennials
agree with all -millennials that verses one through
three refer to the spiritual binding of Satan
that takes away his ability to deceive the nations,
and it ensures that the gospel can go forward
with success. Post -millennials offer a unique
interpretation of verses four through six, though.
So if you remember verses four through six, dispensationalists,
they said it refers to two or three different
resurrections. You have the resurrection of New
Testament Christian believers, you have the resurrection
of Old Testament saints, you have the resurrection
of unbelievers. Historic free mills said that
this refers to the resurrection of all Christians
and then all non -Christians. and the all -millennials
said that the first resurrection referred to
those who have died but now are living with Jesus
in heaven. They have died but they have come
to life and they are ruling and reigning with
him in heaven. Post -millennials, on the other
hand, they believe that this first resurrection
refers to being born again. So we were spiritually
dead, but we have been made alive in Christ.
And so they say that that's what the first resurrection
It refers to, so therefore they believe that
everyone who is a Christian is currently taking
place in the rule and reign of Christ. Verse
5 refers to all the spiritually dead people who
will not be raised until the last day. Verses
7 through 10 refers to the releasing of Satan
and his rebellion against Christ as well as Christ's
victory over the rebellion. And then comes the
end when Jesus will escort all people to judgment.
And so if you just look at some key points of
post -millennialism, they are hopeful, they're
optimistic, they believe that the world is increasingly
getting better. The vast majority of the world
will be converted to faith in Christ. This leads
to the golden age of Christianity, which is the
millennium in their view. During the millennium,
the world will be Christianized, nations and
governments will be under the law of God. They
believe the millennium is not really a literal
thousand years. First resurrection refers to
being born again. Towards the end of the millennium,
Satan will be unbound and will lead a rebellion.
Jesus returns to defeat that rebellion and then
comes the end when Jesus escorts all people to
the throne of God for judgment. So we had to
rush kind of through that to get it done, but
now that we are done with the four views, what
are your questions on eschatology? Do you want
me to try to clarify anything for you? Do you
have any points that you would like me to address,
anything like that? There have been some questions
about where I stand on eschatology. You're welcome
to ask that at this time if you would like. Go
ahead, Kaylee. Yeah, that's a good question.
So anybody watching online, the question is,
do Post Mills interpret some things literally
and some things symbolically? I think that applies
to every eschatological view, not just Post Millennials.
I was having this conversation with my buddy
Brad. Again, if you're watching, I love you,
but we pick on each other. We got into a debate
about this earlier today on the phone. So he's
a dispensationalist. Dispensationalists say they're
literalists. They interpret everything literally.
But they don't, because the 70 weeks have to
be interpreted symbolically. A week is not actually
one week, it's a period of seven years. So we
need to extend some grace and understand that
everybody interprets some things literally and
everybody interprets some things symbolically.
Dispensationalists, again, they say they're literalists,
but then you look at the seven churches and they
would say, well, it's not just that they're addressing...
these seven churches in Revelation, but these
seven churches actually symbolically represent
different ages throughout church history. So
yes, they interpret some things literally, some
things symbolically. Same thing with all mills,
historic pre mills, post mills, everybody is
the same on that. So good question. Anybody else?
Points on eschatology that you would like clarified?
Anything that's confusing? Anything like that?
Caroline. Yep Yeah, it depends on like your branch
of Numerology, I don't know that that's is that
the right word for it. I don't think it is I
think there's something else Yeah So there's
a question about numerology and if that's helpful
to use in the Bible, if that contributes to eschatological
views. Basically it's when you look kind of too
deeply into numbers or make bigger deal out of
numbers than they are. I've seen people... anytime
there's any sort of event happening in the world,
there's gonna be an eclipse. And they're like,
the eclipse is happening on seven 13. And if
you look in the Bible at Matthew chapter seven,
verse 13, and so they like really read into that
kind of stuff. And the thing is every verse number
and chapter number. it's not in the original
text. Like I've seen our manuscripts, there's
no numbers there. So that was added. So you can't
just say, well, look at chapter seven, verse
13, because that was added by man to be helpful.
So it depends on how you're using it, right?
So if you're using it like that to say, hey,
this event corresponds with a chapter and verse
number, I don't think that's helpful. If you
are reading things into scripture, that's not
helpful. But if you're looking at numbers and
trying to ask, the question, what's the best
way to understand what's being communicated by
this number? Then I think that's helpful. So
when you have the 70 weeks, you have to deal
with that, right? So you can either interpret
it as 70 literal weeks. You can interpret it
as seven periods of time or 70 periods of time.
You can interpret it as every week is seven weeks.
When you get into revelation and you look at
numbers like 144 ,000, it could be a literal
144 ,000, or it could be 12 times 12 times a
thousand. 12 tribes of Israel, 12 disciples of
Jesus, number of completion. So it depends on
how you're trying to use the numbers and I think
there's a helpful way and I think people can
always press it too far. I don't know if that's
a good answer. Okay, I have a way of talking
a lot about a lot of different things and maybe
there's something in there you can take away.
Anybody else? Yeah Doug. Yeah Yeah, I mean there
are a lot of instances in the Bible where a period
of time is is different for us than it is for
God and so It could be a literal thousand years
and it's good. It could literally be Jesus gonna
return He's gonna set up a kingdom here on earth.
It's gonna be a literal 1 ,000 years Or it could
be metaphorical and symbolic, because Revelation
is a very symbolic book. And so it's just one
of those things where you can't say with certainty
it's definitely going to be this. Because you
can straw man any position, right? So I've seen
people who are not dispensationalists or not
historic premails say, well, this is the only
place in all of scripture that ever refers to
a 1 ,000 year period on earth. And they act like
that's just an absolutely dismantling argument.
But here's the thing, the Bible only has to say
something once for it to be true. So Jesus only
once said, I'm the way, the truth and the life.
We would never go, well, that's the only place
where he said that. So obviously there has to
be, so that's not a good argument. but also there
is something to be said for the fact that this
is the only place and so we have to wrestle with
these issues. So my whole point in bringing this
to you is to say we don't need to be quick to
dismiss all these other views and just say like
oh they're not taking scripture seriously or
they're just going with the times or this or
that. people are basing their views on scripture.
They just come to it with a different approach
for interpretation than we do, and we need to
be respectful of other Christians who disagree
with us, especially on issues of eschatology,
okay? So, again, that's not something to get
worked up about. If you want to disagree with
me on that, that's fine. We can still be friends.
If you want to disagree with me on Jesus, we're
going to have a serious conversation about that
and talk about it, but this is not something
to get up in arms about. Any other questions,
eschatology? Anything you want to know that I
can try to answer? I don't have all the answers,
by the way. I've just read a lot. Yeah. Yeah
Yeah, yeah, I'm not the type of person the only
time I will engage in an eschatological conversation
is if you're going to straw man my position then
we're gonna we're gonna open the Bible and we're
gonna I'm gonna make the case for why I believe
what I believe But I will never start a debate
and be like I can't believe you hold to this
It's like I've got better things to do with my
time than that my buddy today The reason we got
into that conversation is because he was trying
to straw man my position and I was like, okay
Well now I've got to open scripture and you're
gonna be on the phone with me for the next hour
So you started this just understand that But
there have been questions about where I stand
on eschatology. Here's what I'll say. I have
gone back between two positions, at least early
on in my faith. I would go back and forth between
historic pre -millennialism and all -millennialism.
I've never been a dispensationalist. I've never
been a post -mill, maybe one day. Who knows?
We'll see. But I've gone back and forth on those,
but I've been an all -millennial probably for
the past five years pretty consistently. And
that's my view. That's how I understand revelation.
I can defend that with scripture. I'd be happy
to back it up. I think I made the case for all
millennialism last week when I told on it. But
that is not to say that I have to be right. I
could be wrong and someone else could be right.
But this is something that we can disagree on.
So that's where I stand on eschatology. Hope
we can all still be friends after this. Yeah,
we're good. Sure. No, Caroline says no. We're
never talking again. All right. Anything else
you want to say before we close? That's right.
I agree. Yeah, so This is again where I come
back to this and say There are people who are
smarter than me on every side of this and they
hold to every position There are doctors who
were Dispensationless there are doctors who were
post mill and on mill and historic pre mill It's
it's foolish to try to say that we think we've
got it all figured out Have your view be able
to defend it with scripture, but at the end of
the day Show grace. Michael, as always, you get
the word of wisdom.