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What's going on everybody? This is AJ Capasso here with Country Circle Paranormal and I'm here with my good friend as always.
Robin from Hawthorne Paranormal.
That was so flat. That was no excitement.
I am.
He's a moap, I tell ya. Just messing with you.
But we are talking with the source. Thank you so much for being with us and watching another episode.
This is going to be a great episode.
Unfortunately, we've had so many hurdles to get our guest on today, but he has been so awesome to us and we cannot thank him enough.
But first, before we get started, we just want to do some shout outs real quick.
First shout out we want to do is to our good friends at Petey Region Paranormal.
They have so much stuff going on. Head over to their social medias and check out some of the stuff that they do.
It's absolutely amazing.
The other one we want to shout out is Ghost Energy Drinks.
Head over there. They have some amazing creepy drinks like Swedish Fish, Sour Patch Kids, you name it.
They got it. Orange Creamsicle, which I still want to try, Robin, to be honest.
It kind of sounds kind of good.
I can't get that in over here.
I know, you're right. But it's all at all health food stores like GNC, stuff like that.
So if you are in America, I don't believe it's in the UK yet, but I'm not too sure, like Robin has said.
They also have pre-workout stuff as well.
Another brother of ours is the Paranormal Consultant.
Head over there. He has a great podcast with his friends, the Para Crew Podcast.
We had them on not too long ago, I believe last week.
So definitely check out that episode and go check out their stuff.
One thing we do want to say is Global Ghost Hunt. The website is up.
It's www.globalghosthunt.com.
Registration is available right now.
So teams and researchers all around the globe, join us.
Go to the website, go to the social medias and even TikTok and check out what we have to offer.
Major production, major exposure for all the teams and researchers involved and the locations.
And that's one of the main things is keeping these locations on and keeping them going because, you know,
it takes a lot to keep them up to par and not falling apart.
Another one we want to give a shout out to is the P3 United States family.
And we also want to give a shout out to the P3 UK Division as well.
P3 program is about Paranormal Unity.
Great, great group of people that we are with right now from the UK and United States.
So go on Facebook and social media. Check out the P3 program.
It's absolutely amazing. Anyone is able to join it.
So definitely check it out if you're a researcher and you're into having a family in this paranormal field
and getting away from the competition.
We also want to shout out to our good friend and brother from huntaphobia on ParaFlix right now, Brian J. Levery.
We could not be more happy with the success that he is having right now.
He's about to be on the in the magazine Beyond the Grave talking about Parapos, talking about huntaphobia
and talking about Global Ghost Hunt, which he started and is founder of that and ParaPost.
So that leads me into shouting out to where we are live right now.
We are on ParaPost Network Central on Facebook.
If you like podcasts of the paranormal, please head over to ParaPost Network Central.
You can also head over to parapost.net and you can even go to iOS or Android and download the ParaPost app,
which is basically an app you could share your stuff on, meet a bunch of great people,
a community of paranormal researchers from all over and, you know, just just join us.
I mean, it's absolutely great, but no more delay.
Robin, give our guest the proper intro he deserves.
I will indeed. And hello to the V Team Paranormal.
Hey V Team. Thank you for watching.
Today we have on a massive guest for us, a true gentleman,
a guy that I've been watching for years on end.
I couldn't even tell you how many years anybody who's watched UK's most haunted on TV will know this man.
Parapsychologist forensic parapsychologist, absolute genius in the paranormal world.
Can't give him high enough regard. Please welcome everybody. Dr. Kieran O'Keefe.
Kieran, you got him on.
Hi, how are you?
How is the weather over there here? It's real hot right now.
Yeah, very hot. It's getting to 39. What is that in your temperature? 90, is it? 90 plus?
Yeah, yeah.
Can I just stop you there, Robin? Introduce me.
That is by far the best introduction that I've ever had in my life because you use the word genius.
Genius of the paranormal. I've never been called that before.
Honestly, I tell you, I love that when I watched every live, every series of most haunted, I watched it all.
Honestly, if there was someone that needed to be told or needed to be debunked or whatever way you want to call it, you were the man for it.
I used to love it because the one thing that I can't have as a paranormal investigator myself is walking around and everything that happens is paranormal.
It's paranormal. The word I despise is demonic.
Everything is not a demon. I don't care what you say.
It's good to have someone with your knowledge that can walk around with a team like that, especially when it's on TV and say, right, yes, something did happen there,
which maybe can't be explained, but maybe there is an explanation for it. You're able to measure and gauge any drafts that were coming into a room and things like this.
You've got to be able to do that.
Yeah, I appreciate it.
I mean, all I was doing was lending, in a way, balance and kind of a skeptical perspective, but skeptical doesn't mean cynical.
You know, and as you guys know, when we're talking about ghost hunting, if anything, skeptical is the best way to be.
The fact that you're open minded, but you're questioning the evidence that's presented to you.
And I think that is the case for most ghost hunters.
And I've always been a ghost hunter as well as a parapsychologist, you know, and the two kind of slightly different things.
But, you know, I've always gone into the ghost hunting side of things as a skeptic, questioning, but open minded, you know, and yeah, loved it.
Loved my time on Most Haunted. Absolutely. It's brilliant.
I wanted to first go quick. Don Kirkman of Kirkham. I hope I didn't pronounce that wrong. Apologize.
Kirkham.
He says, I'm here for Kieran. If you haven't attended any of his online programs, you are missing something amazing.
I know you are happy to hear that. That's brilliant. Thanks, Don.
And to lead up first question from one of our viewers, we like to get all our viewers involved from Shelly.
She says, hi, is Most Haunted real? I figured I'd like to hear that.
Yeah. Why not dive in at the deep end? That's brilliant. What a question to start with.
Yeah. Why not start with that question? The answer is yes.
But it's yes with a caveat, because if you ask a different member of the Most Haunted crew, they might have a different answer.
So yes, it's real, as in genuinely what was happening was that there was a team of people who were going into an allegedly haunted location.
And that team of people had three people at the front, Yvette Fielding, the presenter, the medium, and then myself.
Or in the past, it was an investigator, Phil Wyman, Jason Karl. So it's the three of us.
But then you also had the team, which is the cameraman, the sound man, et cetera.
But spending the night in a haunted location.
So in terms of Shelly's question, it's real for that reason that we were genuinely investigating.
It wasn't, you know, yes, you got you got 50 minutes or an hour edited down from, you know, 10, 12 hours of footage,
but also repeated footage because you got lots of different visuals going on around the location.
So, yes, it's edited down, but it's not scripted. It wasn't prepared or anything like that.
You know, it's genuinely we're going and investigating.
But I think from my perspective, and a lot of viewers will know, I remained skeptical and at times somewhat cynical about some of the evidence
that was captured about some of the claims that were made by individuals on the show in terms of what they experienced.
Whilst at other times there might have been interesting things that were completely missed where people said,
oh, you know, I feel a bit weird when I walk into this room. I don't feel right. I feel a bit emotional. I'm going to stop.
You know, that happened to crew members. But of course, it didn't necessarily make the final cut because it's not as exciting as smash bang wallop.
I've been scratched by a demon and, you know, there's Uncle Bob standing over there in the corner spitting at me.
You know, I mean, the sensational stuff makes it to TV, but the sensational stuff doesn't necessarily make it.
And actually hidden amongst all of the experience of the crew, there might have been genuine experiences.
There might have been. Yeah. You know, we'll never know.
But I saw some quite traumatic reactions from members of the crew to experiences they had that never really made it onto camera.
Yeah. Not only that as well, Karen, from watching it, you obviously like you say, you had the time limit when you've done a live and it was on for three hours, which was great.
But obviously you had to have the time in the studio. You maybe had a guest or two that had to be interviewed.
You had to go to Leslie or Richard Felix at a time for, you know, your historian side of it.
You had the the the multi interactive side of it.
Oh, yeah. You know, so you had all these different parts.
It wasn't just the three hours of live cameras.
You always had these different bits.
And then obviously when you had to relocate, you always went back to the studio while you relocated.
So I think and I think I think the other thing is there's a difference in my mind between the live shows.
Most wanted live, which you've described perfectly, Robin, and then the episodes, the live shows.
There is that pressure and that sense of let's go back to the studio.
Let's speak to Leslie, the historian or Richard Felix. Let's, you know, hear what the audience have to say.
You know, all of that is very much pressure and it feels like almost completely unnatural when ghost hunting the episodes.
At least there was a semblance of an investigation. There wasn't the pressure of a live studio of having to finish within three hours.
You stayed for as long as you wanted to.
And a lot of those early episodes of most most haunted, the team were genuinely staying till six, seven o'clock in the morning, you know, the whole night and doing multiple vigils.
You know, so it felt a little bit more like an investigation.
All be it. It wasn't controlled because you've got cameras around.
You've got sound men around. You've got you've still got a lot of people around.
But it was one of those shows together with Ghost Hunters and some of the other shows that basically kickstarted a boom.
Oh, unreal. Right. I mean, paranormal used to be in the closet.
Now all of a sudden, it's the most mainstream thing in the world.
I mean, I remember there was only like twenty five hundred teams maybe ten years ago. Now there's over 10 billion teams.
So everywhere you look, one of the things that you said and I kind of forgot because I got so into what you were saying.
First, I'll say Shelly said a nice psychology reply with a smile.
So you love that reply. One of the things I want to say was I was told by obviously a production team and also through Travel Channel as well.
One of the production people that I talked to, he was like, you know, it's 50 percent entertainment and then 50 percent in real investigating.
Like the investigation is real. But then they sense you have to sensationalize to make it entertaining for the people in the studio.
Like you were saying, you get all these eight, ten hours of different angles and footage, but you have to lower it down to this 45 minute or hour show.
And I think, yeah, I think, AJ, you're absolutely right to get that insight on it.
And I always say to people, you know, if you sat down and watched any paranormal show for an hour, what would be the most exciting thing to watch?
Would it be two investigators sitting in a sat in a haunted room for an hour when nothing happens?
Which which, let's be honest, we all know that, you know, you could be watched like watching paint dry on some investigation.
So do you watch that for an hour or when it's TV, there's producers involved thinking about the audience at home and going, well, we need to make this interesting.
We need to think about it in like 10 minute bites and think, how can this be interesting for them?
So on the one hand, you know, skeptical about paranormal phenomena, especially within the TV context.
But on the other hand, like you said, I get it. You know, this TV has to be interesting. It has to engage the viewer.
And whilst we can be critical of a lot of the stuff and a lot of the current shows,
it's also given that impetus and that kind of trigger for people to go out and ghost hunt themselves and find out for themselves what ghost hunting is all about.
Absolutely. Tell you, Most Haunted was the first paranormal investigation show that she watched and loved it.
You know, it's still great. It's like that. And also like Ghost Hunters like that.
So a lot of people that couldn't really get into Ghost Hunters, even though it's such a great show,
but it was because they really had not that much sensationalism as like say ghost adventures, you know, like, and you know, it's it's it's sad that we have to go that way.
But for entertainment purposes, I mean, like you said, you're not going to sit and watch pain try, you know, so I totally get it.
I think I think in the in the UK and the US, the difference between all of us as well is from my view anyway,
that, you know, there was nothing really like this over here. There was there was, you know, there was absolutely nothing.
Then Most Haunted come on the scene and it just blew up.
It just went, you know, because they were doing the lives and stuff and it was something different to what was ever being shown on TV.
And it was like it grabbed my attention. The first time I ever seen it, I was thinking through the channels one night and they were walking about.
I had night vision cameras and stuff on and straight away I thought, right, you know, you look at a screen in this dark room with a night vision camera and you think,
obviously, that's kind of thing on TV before you start watching it, you start getting what it's about.
And before you know it, three hours has gone by, the live ends and you're still sitting watching it.
And it's like, right, you know, there was there was a gap in the market for this.
And it leads, you know, it leads on to, you know, different things like, for instance, in the States.
I don't know, AJ, you can correct me here, but I think Taps was one of the first ones, wasn't it?
Well, yeah, the Ghost Hunter TV attack.
So then nobody really knows or is that much interested in the actual ghost hunting thing because, you know, it's like it's a small sort of click of people that do it around the world.
But something like this bursts onto the scene and it captures those people's imaginations.
And all of a sudden you're like, I want to do that.
You know, I mean, it's like I think that then obviously when most haunted then went stateside as well, you did Eastern Eastern Penitentiary, didn't you, Karen?
Yes, Eastern State Penitentiary, which is one of my favorite locations based in Philadelphia and also West Virginia State Penitentiary.
But the Eastern State was the one where we did the live show. Yeah. Yeah.
So that was amazing. It's interesting what you say about shows of that type and most haunted being the first and Shelley saying we started a trend.
I think I think you're right.
And of course, you've got to remember, you know, the Stephen Carl and Yvette were the ones that started it.
And it started with Jason Carl as the investigator before I joined a few years later.
Interestingly, that was 2002 Ghost Hunter started a year or two after that.
So the Taps guy starts a year or two after that.
And there was something about the show as being a televised investigation.
Elements of it that had happened before in an American context and also in in kind of a British context in the U.S.
context, you rewind about two years and you have a show called MTV Fear.
So it's a show called Fear where effectively it was almost like a game show in a way.
But it was but it was, you know, contestants like a group of five or so people left in a haunted house or haunted location for a period of days.
And things happen to them or CCTV happening or those sorts of things.
And but they had moments where there were night vision cameras or CCTV.
That was 2000.
But then you can even go further back and Robin will notice the show, the one off show Ghost Watch.
I've never seen that.
Yeah, I see it was a one off.
One off show. And it was basically the premise of it was an investigative team led by a blonde haired presenter accompanied by a medium and an investigator going into a haunted house.
And occasionally they go back to the studio where they'd be a skeptic sitting on the sofa, maybe with a historian.
And you start to describe it and go, that's most haunted.
And that happened about seven or eight years prior to most haunted actually know a lot longer than that.
Even a few decades.
What I'm trying to say is the shows before that came across as entertainment.
When most haunted and ghost hunters came along, I think what captured the imagination was it felt like you were watching people who could be you or I investigating and people looking at it going, that could easily be us.
These aren't special people. These aren't famous celebrities. These aren't contestants in a game show.
These aren't actors. These are just real people investigating. This is cool.
I would love to go and do this.
You know, I think that's right. Captured it. Maybe it was that element is that element of realism.
I think at the start as well, though, Karen, correct me if I'm wrong.
But in the first few lives and stuff, well, definitely the first one that I seen, there was a lot more time given back then and certain areas, should I say.
Like when when obviously when they're doing a walk around, I found it towards I know most haunted are still going online.
But towards the end of the living TV era of it, there was, you know, you'd be walking maybe from one room to another and it would have cut back to the studio for a bit and then would have come back to you when you're in that room.
Whereas when I started watching it, you know, there was a lot more time given if you were in a room, there was a lot more time given to the investigation in that room.
And then walk from there to another room. It was all really it was all sort of live as well. There was it wasn't as much studio time.
And I think that's what caught me because it was like you're watching something about me personally anyway.
I'm watching something on TV that I've literally never seen before.
I'm not even seen it before, but it's not recorded.
It's live. You know, I mean, so if something happens, you know, and you see it on TV, if there's a cheer mood, it's like it's not you're thinking to yourself.
Right. Well, that's it. It's like that just happened because it's live.
And that's what really what really intrigued me to start with was the fact that it was being done live.
Yes. And I guess the key thing is you're absolutely right. At the time when it started, 2002 and then Ghost Hunters 2004 with the live shows that they both did.
It was happening at a time where live was almost unique.
It was almost reserved for sports events, maybe. And that sort of thing.
Now, when we talk about shows being truly live or being live streamed as we are, you know, live streamed on YouTube through Facebook, through any social media platform, it's almost, you know, it's not apathy.
But we just kind of go. Yeah, it's nothing special to have that. But I think you're absolutely right, Robin.
There was something about that time that it was that live sense of you're following the action with less.
Yeah, coming back to the studio, you're less. You're just going, wow, this is happening right now.
Yeah, this is absolutely amazing. And especially I remember we did a Halloween special at a place called Clitherow, which is associated with witches in a particular area of England.
And on the particular night, we had a place called Tyndale Farm.
Everybody asked me about my favorite episode, and that was one of it. It was a live episode. And we're Tyndale Farm.
And over the course of about an hour, we went from a crew of 12, 13 standing in the room witnessing kind of a science type and set up 12 or 13 of us was reduced down to about three of us because people were fainting, were collapsing, were overcome with difficulty breathing.
It was just the moment just kind of caught everybody. And it was a lot of it made of it being paranormal and everybody else thinks it's paranormal.
I had my own reasons of what I think was going on, as always, skeptical explanations.
But it was just one of those moments where people got excited because they're going, this is actually happening.
The cameraman has just fainted and the cameras crashed. And basically you got dead air for two minutes.
It was just a black screen on people's TVs at home when they went, what? WTF? What just happened?
Amazing, amazing time. I had a little bit. I must I must admit I'm going to hold my hand up here.
I had a little bit of a thing that I used to do was I went to a lot of the locations that most haunted have been to that are in my in my vicinity.
As in I've been to Clitheroe quite a few times with the castle, keeping the hell and stuff.
And all over Pendle Hill, I went to a lower wellhead farm, parked the car, went party up the hill, stuff like that, because obviously it's quite near to me.
It's quite local. But my favorite place, I know obviously we're going to talk about more than most haunted on this,
but my favorite place that that is dead and I want to go to was Woodchester Mansion.
Oh, fantastic place. Amazing, amazing place.
So for those not familiar with Woodchester Mansion, effectively you've got this old mansion and what makes it truly unique is from the outside.
It looks complete. It looks like a stunning. I was more think about it looking like a cathedral, but this enormous mansion from the outside looks fine.
But on the inside, it's just nothing. Basically, is it? You know, you've got the place, but there's actually not.
It's almost like an empty shell of a place. But also to get to it, you're going down a drive, you know, and it's kind of like it's an archetypal horror journey, isn't it?
To go down the driveway as you get to Woodchester, which is to mention it's absolutely brilliant, brilliant place.
Brilliant place. I just ask you as well, Karen, why we're on the subject.
And then the part in that mansion when you I think is we're in the in the loft part of it.
Hello, Brian. And there was a there was a stone thrown, wasn't there?
There was a rock or something thrown across camera. Yes. Yeah.
Which was which was which was brilliant because it was caught on camera. Yeah.
That's one of those moments. And I think, yeah, I can't remember exactly what I said, but I can almost think what I would have said is how impressive it was because we finally got one caught on camera.
Typically, what happened in that in those sorts of scenarios is you just hear it.
It lands and then you may be able to film it, but you're able to see it go across the camera.
The issue, of course, with it, as I said, with any objects that are flying is if we got footage of where it starts and we get the trajectory and where it finishes, then that's impressive.
So we can see the starting point. We didn't get the starting point at Woodchester Mansion.
We got it flying through the air, but we don't know where it started from.
Did it start from unseen hands or from seen hands?
Yeah. And bearing in mind as well for anybody that's watching, when this is happening, you're in the pitch pitch black pitch dark.
Yeah. So you can't actually discount that someone could be over that way.
But still, it is impressive.
There was that one and there was one near the start when I was talking to Richard Felix about it when he was on, where they were in a basement of a I think it was a farmhouse.
And Richard Felix and David Wells were sat at a table asking it to move and the table actually shot into Richard Felix.
You mean moved moved apparently of its own accord into Richard.
Yeah. I wonder where that was.
Because if it was David Wells, it wouldn't have been very, very early on because I think it was a few hours before he joined.
I think it was I think it was quite early in his in his tenure there.
Well, table phenomena always intrigues me.
I was going to get into huge arguments with people about table phenomena.
Yeah. Just don't touch the table.
And then if it moves, I'll be impressed.
Yeah. No. Oh, you understand. Absolutely.
You're absolutely right. I mean, yeah, it's funny because you have to be if you're an investigator, you have to be skeptical.
I mean, as much as when you're in this for so long, you obviously get that thing where it's like, OK, you know, I know this is spirit, but you can't you kind of can't get like that almost because, you know, then you start, you know, not debunking things that you should.
One of the things I do want to ask, I do kind of want to switch gears real quick because we are going to have you on again.
We only have an hour with you today, which we greatly appreciate.
But I want to switch gears on first. I just want to say to a couple of Don just said, she said, I've done a couple of investigations at the place you just mentioned, had a couple of cool experiences, but what made people scream was a mouse that was running across the room.
And then Stuart said he used to be a part of a paranormal group and he did.
They did, which Esther, as it is down the road from them and it's an amazing place. And he said they did they did deliver a couple which did deliver a couple unexplained events.
But one thing I did want you to talk about a little bit was how you got into this, how you got into what intrigued you to be in parapsychology.
Like in what was an experience that you had that maybe forced you into this or got you into this field, if you don't mind asking. Yeah, that's I mean, that's a brilliant question.
I guess very, very early on. My parents were genuinely concerned about my reading material.
I was fascinated by ghost stories and I even as a young boy, I was reading the works of M.R. James, H.P. Lovecraft, James Herbert, the UK author, Stephen King, even some of his short stories, Clive Barber a little bit later on.
So there was something that I was fascinated by ghost stories.
But then fast forward and I was a voracious watcher of paranormal documentary type things. So there was a show Arthur C. Clarke's Mysterious World that was around when I was a very young teenager, so 11, 12 years old.
So I loved that. But then actually the turning point for me was 1984, age 13, and the movie Ghostbusters came out.
That that that was it. You know, I had never had any aspirations prior to that to be a parapsychologist.
And that film came out when I was 13 and I thought, no, that's what I want to do.
I want to be a parapsychologist, you know, and hoped that I one day I would be like Dr. Peter Venkman and my proton pack and all that.
You know, it would have been so cool. But yet. So even to the point where after finishing school, I made a conscious decision to go to university in the States so I could study parapsychology.
It's very difficult to do that in the UK and in Europe.
But actually in the US, there are a few places that are more open to studying parapsychology.
So, yeah, so I ended up studying at a university out in the States and spending some time at the Institute of Parapsychology or what's known as Ryan Research Center.
But yeah, that was the key. That was the key for me is Ghostbusters.
And then as a teenager, you know, the odd ghost hunt here and there and that whetted the appetite.
And I just thought this is what I want to do. That's so great.
I totally kind of see your parents being a little concerned about your material. Lovecraft.
I want to say what Shelley said real quick.
She first asked the Australian paranormal investigators and me and Robin do know Night Watchers of Australia on that's on Paraflix.
How about you, Karen? Do you know any teams from Australia by chance?
Yeah, there's there's is it the API, which is actually the Australian Paranormal Investigators, which I think are based in Brisbane.
And there's a a researcher as well called Sarah.
And I always get her surname wrong. I think it's Sarah Chumaka. Sarah Chumaka, I think, is her surname.
But she she writes a blog, kind of a regular blog and does fantastic research. And the blog is always about things that you need to know as a ghost hunter.
So why are we interested in temperature, for example, or why do we use an EMF meter or what's the best ghost box to use and that sort of thing?
And she's very, very active. And I recommend people digging out her blog.
But yeah, it's actually quite active in Australia. There are quite a few investigators, quite a few groups.
They're mainly centered around Brisbane area and Sydney and I think a couple in Melbourne.
But yes, relatively, relatively active in terms of investigators.
Awesome. Shelly also asked, which you already answered basically, but she did say, how did you get into parapsychology, which you just actually answered in our Sarah?
I mean, our our sister and part of our paranormal family, Sarah Sarri said, hello, Dr.
Sierr. That's me waving. And I wanted to ask, is there was there actually, you know, first thing I want to ask is, what is to explain parapsychology to someone that doesn't quite really understand that kind of just knows the term.
Can you explain it a little? Yes. So very basically, it's the scientific study of the paranormal.
The issue is, what is the paranormal? It's huge. It's a vast, vast subject. Parapsychology does not study all of it.
It doesn't look into yetis, UFOs and induction, Loch Ness. It focuses on a particular area, the paranormal.
And that is three areas. The first is ESP, extra sensory perception, which covers things like telepathy, precognition to predicting the future.
The second area it covers is PK, which is psychokinesis, which is the action of the mind on an object.
And then the third area of study is after death communication or survival, basically.
And it's things like hauntings, mediumship, poltergeist, that sort of thing. So those are that's the main focus of what parapsychologist is interested.
Awesome. Awesome. Hey, look who's on. I know. I just want to say so Robin's wife, Julie, she just said hi and hi to you as well.
And I'm sure she's what downstairs, Robin or in the other room? Yeah, she's downstairs watching. She's another one.
It was always me and her watch most haunted. And she loves hearing well. Hi, Julie.
Robin, go ahead. Please.
I was just going to I was going to say, is there anywhere in the UK, Kieran, that that you haven't visited that you would love to go to do a ghost hunt?
Whether it, you know, obviously, you've done practically rinsed the UK with most haunted.
Yeah, there are there are still places left, you know, in the UK and in North America. So in the UK, my dream location is the Tower of London.
You know, when you think about locations, absolutely, that would be a key one is is the Tower of London.
You know, if you rewind back about 20 years, very few people remember it. But Halloween, about 20 years ago, just before most haunted or maybe just the year before most haunted was started, there was a live ghost hunt from Tower of London.
And it happened. It was interesting, maybe not the most engaging show, but unfortunately, the the crew and the team involved did not do what they should have done.
They didn't adhere to the rules of the Tower of London. And it's almost as though from that day, the Tower of London shut its doors to investigations, which is, you know, annoying, to say the least.
So Tower of London definitely in the UK in North America.
There are so many locations, so many locations, but it covered quite a few. And I've done investigations over there. I actually did investigations as well with
the Taps guys as well, quite a few years ago, 50, 60 years ago, we did an investigation in northern Florida at the time.
But I've always I've always wanted to go to Alcatraz. Oh, me too. That seems like such a great show. Yeah. Amazing location.
I was very close to there when we did Winchester Mystery House. Oh, don't stop it. Right there to go there.
Is that a dream? Really? That's my ideal location. Superb. Absolutely superb.
So, yeah, we were there. Is it San Jose in California? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Which is just down the road from San Francisco where Alcatraz was.
And I'm just kicking myself that I didn't stay a few extra days and go and spend some time at Alcatraz. But Winchester Mystery House. What a place.
What an absolute place. And I remember the walk up to it. So I hadn't seen it. I'd seen it online, but hadn't visited.
You know, arrived in San Jose, got over my jet lag the first day, walking up the road to see the Winchester Mystery House.
And as I approached kind of the front of it, it was a surreal moment because I bumped into an actor who I have the greatest admiration for Giovanni Robisi.
And this actor was just standing there in front of Winchester Mystery House.
And I went, oh, hi, Giovanni. And he went hi. And then just walked off. And I thought, this is surreal.
Here's a location that I have seen and thought how amazing would it be to investigate.
And I'm almost being greeted at this Winchester Mystery House by this amazing American celebrity, Giovanni.
And then three now. Exactly. But then walked into the house.
And you're right. You know, Robin, in terms of your excitement, I was like being a kid in a toy shop.
It was just phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal. Really was.
I spent quite a bit of time there when we weren't filming, just walking around with my jaw open, just going, yeah, I cannot believe.
I told you, AJ, I used to like Kieran.
That place, just the construction of that place and the way it was built is just mind blowing.
I mean, you know, it's amazing that it's amazing that she didn't get sent by the lady when she was building it.
It's amazing they didn't put her in a nuthouse to be completely on, you know, back in the days.
I mean, the house is just absolutely amazing from what I've seen from videos and stuff like that.
I haven't got to go there, which I would love to go there.
I just haven't had the chance. But I tell you, it's absolutely amazing.
Like you said, and that seemed like such an awesome experience to have.
And I picked up I picked up an old 1930s.
I was in 19, 19, 20s postcard of the Winchester Mystery House.
There is a souvenir. And when myself and my wife, we had our second born little girl when she got to about the age of four or five.
We were looking at the postcard thinking, should we should we sell this, you know, sign it and sell it?
Is it sort of thing somebody might? And then we're like, well, no, maybe we shouldn't. Not sure.
And then my little girl came along. Yes, she was about four or five.
And she just pointed pointed at when who's that lady?
And we went, what are you talking about? And it was just a photograph of the house.
Nothing else, just the house. She pointed to him. Who's that lady?
What are you talking about? What lady?
And she pointed at the window of the upper floor and went, that lady there, who's that?
The lady of white. And we had been looking at this photo, I kid you not, for donkey's ears.
Never seen anything. And she pointed at the window and there looked like the outline of this white lady.
And at that moment, we said, no, we're never getting rid of that photo. No way.
Well, yeah. Do you believe it was Elizabeth?
Elizabeth Winchester? Yes, of course it was Elizabeth Winchester. And I'm a believer in all things paranormal.
And Winchester Mystery House is the greatest haunted place location there ever was.
I'm being sarcastic. It was it was it was definitely a lady.
It was definitely a lady. Just don't know who it was.
Genuinely, don't know who it was. But it's just weird. We had never noticed it before.
And then it was that creepy moment when a four year old said, oh, yes, that is not wild.
I want to ask you about that later.
But first, Sarah said, love you in the Ghostbusters video made by Dylan Jones. Back off, man.
Parapsychologist. That's exactly. Yeah. Do check that out.
Dylan, Dylan Jones, there's a couple of documentaries.
Dylan Jones did a documentary where he interviewed a couple of parapsychologists about why they got into parapsychology to mark the release of Ghostbusters Afterlife.
I think it was it was kind of a special release that he was commissioned to do this documentary.
And yeah, I'm one of them. He interviews me about Dr.
Venkman and Ghostbusters and all of that. That is so cool.
Shelly actually asked a couple of good questions.
She said, as a parapsychologist, you think that spirits, energy, ghosts will ever be scientifically proven in any way.
After all that you have experienced, are you less of a skeptic or just still the same you were when you first started?
That's a brilliant question. I'm going to flip that question on its head and say, first of all, first of all, no.
As in, I don't think they'll ever be scientifically proven, but I'm going to flip it on its head and say, you know, are there parts of it that will be disproven?
As in, as in as scientists. And let's be honest now, I've done a lot of research on on the environment, looking at electromagnetic fields, humidity, temperature, air pressure,
infrasound, all of these sorts of things, all these environmental variables, but also the psychological side.
At the moment, really, as a science, we're in a place where we can reliably say, you know what, there's good alternative explanations for what's going on.
But there isn't one explanation that can explain it all.
You presented with particular ghostly accounts and you can maybe explain some of it away using this particular explanation.
You get presented with a different account. You have to give it a different explanation.
But fundamentally, as a science, we're still in that position of going, you know what?
Science can't explain yet what ghosts are.
You know, if anything, what we should be doing as parapsychologists is battling with mainstream science because mainstream science, a lot of mainstream scientists will turn around and go, you know what?
People that see ghosts, it's either fraud or they're hallucinating.
And to be honest, that's just complete rubbish. That is complete rubbish.
We know thousands upon thousands of thousands of people are having these experiences worldwide from loads of different backgrounds, educational backgrounds, gender, race, work, age, you name it.
And they're not all hallucinating and they're not all faking it and saying, oh, you know, just joking around.
There's something else going on.
We've got to accept the fact people are having these experiences and people a lot of the time are genuinely moved by these experience and even sometimes traumatized.
So they're having these real experiences.
And I think we just need to do more to understand exactly what's going on.
And that's why it's a lovely question, Shelley, because ultimately, will science ever prove that ghosts will exist?
No, I don't think they will.
I think the proof of such things is your own, is personal encounters.
When people talk about having a ghostly encounter and they explain it to me and they say, well, what do you think?
I say, well, it could be this, it could be that, it could be this, it could be that sort of thing.
But you know what? The moment's gone. You had that experience.
I wasn't there when you had the experience. I wasn't there.
So all I can do is offer alternative explanations.
If you then still walk away and go, no, actually, I think it was genuinely a ghost.
Nothing I can say about that. It's your own experience.
And I think that's where the best proof comes from.
It's your own personal experience.
And it can be subjective as a new experience and feel it.
Or as I know, in terms of your investigations, it can also be a personal experience, but something that you witness as in the use of a gadget or a ghost box or something to get communication.
Yeah, it's a great question. And the last part was, am I less less of a skeptic?
Hmm. Which is a really good question.
I would say, no, I'm not less of a skeptic.
In fact, I would say I'm more skeptical.
But actually, what I've become is more sympathetic and empathic towards people.
So I've always been sympathetic and was a nice guy.
But 20, 30 years ago, when people tell me their experiences, I would already be thinking about alternative explanations.
But now, having been through hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of locations and investigations, I've witnessed people having what they feel like a genuine experiences.
And I'm sympathetic to that.
I don't ever want to dismiss people's experiences as being somewhat some scientific explanation because people are genuinely moved by the experience.
And I think that's really the best answer for Shelley's.
I haven't necessarily become less skeptical, but I've become more sympathetic that people are having these experiences, if that makes sense.
Absolutely.
And I think it's great to have that on your team because my team that I have is only a small team.
And my mother-in-law is actually on the team and she's my skeptic.
She believes in it.
She believes 100 percent in the paranormal.
But unless someone walks up to her face and goes, hello, then, you know, I mean, she's one of these ones.
It has to be. It's never going to be like you say, scientifically proven.
But if someone is filming and one appears in front of them and walks away or you can you can stand there and say, right, that is real.
That just happened.
I think with a lot of people, not just her, but with a lot of people, this is what it's going to take for them.
Yeah, it's not going to take an experiment where you use a thermal imaging camera and say, right, well, there's a different color there.
There's something, you know, it's all blue, but there's a heat signature in there or it's not going to take a K2 moving from green to red and stuff like that.
There's a lot of people out there that it's going to literally take a ghost to basically walk up and slap them in the face.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think you're absolutely right. But can I just say I've been involved in research in the paranormal since a young boy.
So we're talking almost 40 years now.
And I've encountered some very weird and wonderful things.
I've never heard of a paranormal investigative team with a mother in law on it.
I was just about to say that is truly the first.
Yeah, that's truly unique. Right. Isn't that my hat's off to you, Robin.
That's brilliant. It's crazy. I totally get it.
I love it. You know, they're really on. I'm an Irish man living in England.
So I've got to have something weird about it. Haven't I? True.
You've got to give it the Irish.
So I tell you what, man, I'm about to just sign off and let Shelley just start asking.
I come put her on and start asking questions because she's got some great, great questions.
I'm not going to lie. But I want to kind of move this one because this is kind of a question that I had as well.
But from all of your work over the years, what is your perspective on what's going on in this field?
If you can enlighten us to what your perspective is on this and your opinion on this from your research.
And what is some things that have been unexplainable to you that you just have it?
It's a head scratching moments like we were talking about earlier.
Brilliant. I mean, there's a lot in there, Shelley, in terms of my perspective.
So there's my perspective on ghost hunting and kind of the ghost hunting field.
But also, if you look, I make my research publicly available so people can click on it's called a research research gate page.
And people can click on that and they can find my academic articles there.
And recently I published an article with a number of other researchers looking at environmental explanations for ghostly experiences
and basically looking at the last 20 or so years of research that's been conducted into things like electromagnetic fields,
infrasound, humidity, you name it, any of the environmental explanations we normally put forward.
And even though we went into it in great depth, what we actually found was that the research is just not there for us to say hand on heart.
You know what? Some of these environmental explanations are good suspects for what's going on. The research isn't there.
We have to be as skeptical about some of the environmental explanations as we are about the ghost ghostly experiences.
So that's one perspective is I'm truly skeptical in the sense of the word of being open minded, open minded, but questioning.
So I'll even be open minded and questioning the skeptical side of things as well.
So I'm happy to do that. So that's kind of the perspective side of things.
Shelly was also asking about my experience.
So you said at the beginning, AJ, in terms of how I got into all of this.
Well, of course, what I didn't say is I have I do have two hats.
I have a parapsychologist hat, which is my scientific research, which I do at Buckinghamshire New University, where I'm based.
I publish. I write books.
You know, people can see my research. But then I also have a hat, which is a ghost hunter hat where I'm still thinking like a parapsychologist.
But I'm a ghost hunter like yourselves. I'll go out and investigate whether it's with TV or not.
I just love investigating and and being in those situations has put me into a couple of head scratching moments.
And I think that's the best way of describing it. People would say, I hear and you're being noncommittal.
But no, actually, when you think about all of the research and all of the training I've had for me to say that there have been head scratching moments is quite something.
One of them was at an old abandoned nightclub in the northwest of England, around the Liverpool area, Merseyside area.
And in this particular nightclub, a number of staff had reported phenomena happening.
And the trigger was them having a seance in the middle of the nightclub when it all closed down and things started happening.
Fire exit doors opened their own accord, a shadow walked across that somebody saw and investigated it over over a significant period of time.
And there was a local group, Parascience, as well, that investigated it actually for a couple of years, you know, kind of strictly almost weekly basis gathering data, which is a fantastic way of doing things.
They invited me along. And on this particular night, the staff were there that were there on the original first night when the seance happened.
And they floated the idea of doing the seance again, kind of replicating it so we could see where people sat, all of that sort of stuff.
They sat down and they did the science. And I was filming with a thermal imager.
So it wasn't filmed for a TV show, but I was filming with a thermal imager just to look at relative temperature.
I always set it to black and white so that if there's any drop in temperature, you're seeing it in green.
So instantly you can tell. And I was filming a black and white.
And after about 20, 30 minutes, people sat around the table went, I feel it doesn't feel like there's anything there.
You know, maybe it's just not the right time. And I said, well, look, carry on for another five, 10 minutes.
You never know. It's a unique opportunity that you're all here.
What I didn't tell them was that out the corners of the screen, it was like a green fog that was approaching the table.
But it was this obviously drop in temperature, but it was kind of coming across the floor towards the seance.
And I was looking at it going, well, there's a breeze of some sort that's approaching.
I said, just give it five, 10 minutes to see what happens.
After a few minutes, they said, oh, it feels like the energy is building up.
It feels like there's somebody here and we're getting in contact with somebody.
And as they were saying it, this kind of weird green fog was approaching
and kind of wrapped itself around the seance table and just hung there, hung there for about 20 minutes
whilst they were doing the seance. And then at some point somebody said, oh, it feels like the atmosphere is changing now.
It feels like, you know, there's nothing really here. And they were saying it as the fog just went.
I just disappeared. And it's a head scratching moment.
And I thought both validations is amazing. Exactly.
So there was that. And then the other one was an old Second World War
German bunker on the island of Guernsey that I investigated with my wife.
And first of all, we went there just alone with keys to it.
We locked ourselves in and she was sat in an outside part because she was a little bit freaked out by it.
An outside part. I went in with a camera kind of doing a recce and walking around
a huge kind of network of corridors, dark corridors, pitch black.
And at some point I hear her call out. I hear her say, Kieran, Kieran, Kieran.
And then I hear it escalating to a shout. So I ran back to where she was.
And bear in mind, it took about five minutes or so to run back to where she was
because of this network of corridors in the pitch black. When I got there, she was white as a sheet.
She said she'd been sat down outside, but within the fenced area, and she heard footsteps approaching her.
Wow. She said, Kieran, is that you? The footsteps stopped, shuffled.
And she said, Kieran, and looked around the corridor to where the footsteps were.
And there was nobody there. And that's when she screamed out and called out.
And it took me five minutes to then get back to where she was.
And it's one of those moments where you just go, I didn't have the experience, but I know there's nobody in here because we had the keys to it.
There's no way of getting into a second World War bunker. You just can't do it.
You know, this place was completely locked down.
And yet she heard it to the extent where she thought it was me approaching it.
So, you know, just one of those things. We end up investigating it ourselves with a group and filming it
and putting it on YouTube because we were so fascinated by this location, such a creepy location.
So there you go. There's a couple of head scratching moments amongst the hundreds and hundreds of investigations.
So, yeah, I'm grateful for the question, Shelley.
I know we're coming almost to the end. We got like about five minutes left.
First thing I want to say is Ella Jase, you've asked someone, please view this video.
The voice says, are you safe? Whatever you captured, if you'd like.
So, Mr. O'Keefe, I don't know if you're that too busy. I could send it to you. Whatever.
But I can pass it on to others. Yeah, absolutely.
So, Ella, email us the thing at talking with the source at Gmail dot com and we'll take a look at it.
We'll send it to Karen as well. And he could send it out to some people as well.
And we can all get back to you.
That's so great that you do that for us, Karen, as well. And take a look at it as well.
So thank you so much. First thing I want to say is Matt from Paranormal Consultant,
one of our brothers on the P3 program and a global ghost on everything, says what's up to you and everybody.
And also Doofus Davis, he just happened to stumble upon this. He says, hi, Karen. He loves you.
So I absolutely love that name, by the way, Doofus Davis. I mean, you can't believe it.
Brilliant name. I love it.
I thought it was you and your allure of kind, AJ.
I know, right? That's what I thought, too. But so one last question from the viewers real quick.
And then I want to just ask you one quick question, if you could just answer it for the beginners
and people even that are been in this field for a while like myself.
So the first question or last question from the viewer I wanted to ask before we let you go is question for all you.
Really, do you believe that Ouija boards actually clear up spirits or anything else?
And all my answers have been quite skeptical so far, as in open minded.
You can see that I'm not the real cynic that I might be painted as being.
But actually, with this, I'm more cynical with Ouija boards.
And there's a number of different reasons. So Ouija boards, when they're originally developed, if you look back,
you know, to about 100 years ago within psychical, what's called psychic research in the UK and even in the U.S.
investigators then were using Ouija boards to tap into the subconscious of people sitting around the table.
They genuinely used it as a tool, recognizing there might be stuff in there that you have genuinely forgotten.
And the Ouija board is a way of bringing that information out of your subconscious.
So nothing paranormal, but a useful, almost almost hypnotic tool to bring that information out.
So that's the first part that kind of raises the skeptical side of what I've done, but also on Most Haunted.
You know, I've done it before with lots of other groups, but on Most Haunted, we did an investigation of a haunted mills,
this huge building in, I think it was Yorkshire, where they did a seance and they came up with this incredibly accurate information on the Ouija board.
All of them sat around the Ouija board. And then they said, Kieran, you must be impressed with this.
And I said, well, let me just, you know, tackle this point.
Do you have to be touching the board and the planchette for this to work?
Well, we have to be touching the planchette, I was told. OK, but you have to see the board.
Well, no, we don't, because it's the spirits using the planchette.
And so I said, well, let me blindfold you and then do it again and I'll be impressed.
And they said, OK, yeah, that's fine. So we blindfolded the almost haunted crew that was sitting around the seance table.
They did it again. I said, we're going to ask the same questions and we're going to keep the answers.
So ask exactly the same questions. The movement was all exactly the same.
And they said, was it accurate? And I said, well, it looked as though you were getting exactly the same answers to what you got before.
And yet we were blindfolded, which is amazing. Were it not for the fact that when you were blindfolded, I turned the Ouija board around.
So all the answers were just complete rubbish.
Wow. Effectively, you have to be seeing the Ouija board to get the messages out.
And because of that, because of the contact with the planchette. Yeah, I'm very, very skeptical.
You know, there's this huge history that Sarah's pointed out, going back to the Chinese and even, you know, other Oracle devices that are using an ancient Greece as well.
So it's an amazing history to it. I actually ended up going to university at Washington College, the Eastern Shore,
in the Chesapeake Bay area, in a town called Chester Town, where the original developer of the Ouija board, the Parker Brothers Ouija board, lived.
By pure coincidence, I had no idea that was the case before I went to the university. But yeah, fascinated by it, but skeptical.
Absolutely. So I mean, so you basically said in the beginning that would be that was basically used as a psychological tool.
That's the same thing that Shelley was asking.
There's another there's another caveat, though. People often say to me, you know, would you advise using a Ouija board?
And it might seem counter to what I believe about Ouija boards. But I often say, no, don't use a Ouija board, because if you believe that the Ouija board is contacting spirit
or you believe that by doing it, it's a doorway to something negative, then you using it could mean that things that happen to you afterwards,
you attribute to that spirit or to the open doorway and letting bad things in.
So therefore, even though I don't believe it is doing that, if you believe it is, I wouldn't advise using it if you're genuinely scared by it.
Why would I? That wouldn't be I wouldn't be ethical, then, would it?
Yeah, you see, one thing that I'll say, and AJ knows this, Kieran, I will not I never have done and I never will use one.
But they're the one tool in this whole field. And I've I've used many, many tools.
I even I even work with one. But I don't believe and I tell you the main reason, because if you put your finger on the planchette, right?
Yeah. And everybody has their fingers on it. You're putting supposedly putting energy into the planchette.
Yes. Right. Yeah. So then. When that planchette is moving, if everybody at the same time was to lift their fingers off, it would stop.
Now, surely there should be enough energy in that to carry on, maybe not for long, but maybe the Finnish spelling of the name or I don't know whether I'm right or not.
That's my my view of it. Well, there was some research was done back in the 1850s by Faraday, of all people, the scientists who showed that it was micromotor muscular movement.
And basically what that is, is it's subconscious movement.
So if you're touching the planchette, the best way to illustrate it is if you're touching the planchette and you're saying, what's the name of the spirit here?
And it goes to J and then O and then H.
Everybody knows the next letter is going to be N. We know that your brain knows that because it's been exposed to that name before.
Because of that, your brain communicates with the muscles in your arm, your wrist and your fingers to move that planchette to N.
But the brain does that by passing your consciousness.
So it does that without you realizing because it's an automatic process.
So therefore, when you ask people, did you move it?
People would genuinely go, no, of course I didn't, because they genuinely feel as though they didn't move it.
But because your brain is bypassing your consciousness of it and is basically communicating with the finger and going, no, move it to N.
Of course it's going to be N. But now you've got everybody around the table and they're all doing the same thing.
So they all feel like it's not moving.
And that's why it's such an effective tool, because you can be sitting around the table doing that and all feel like we're not moving it.
We're genuinely not moving it. It almost feels like it's taking itself.
Just fantastic. Yeah, no, definitely.
Well, Karen, you know, I know you have to get out of here.
We were going to have you on definitely again, whatever you're free in the next few weeks or whatever you'd like to come back out.
We would love to continue this conversation.
I'll actually leave my question for the next time.
And real quick, Sarah, I'm sure you were just answering that.
But have you ever been to the Paranormal Research Center in Hinckley yet?
No, I haven't yet. But I do know the owner.
I've spoken to Paul Stevenson at Haunted magazine, who I know has been there many, many times.
So I've had an open invitation. So at some point I'll make it. Awesome.
Well, before you go, can you just give all of us investigators some tips or a tip that we could use in the field with us to be more effective and be more thorough in what we're doing?
If you could. I don't know if you have any.
Yeah, it's very tough because everybody has different ways of ghost hunting.
The only thing I would say is two quick tips is read. So one is read.
I mean, there's so much stuff out there. There are guidelines.
There's some early research by Harry Price, the ghost hunters in the UK and some of the stuff he did and the way he approached investigations, the Society for Psychological Research based in London and also the Ghost Club.
They publish various guidelines and how to do this. And so do read and get familiar with all that stuff.
In terms of a personal tip, the only thing I would say is two things.
Number one, temperature. Find a good way of recording temperature, because it's one of those things that we we report a lot when we're having these ghostly experiences.
And if you've got some way of capturing temperature effectively, you can therefore have that kind of double validation that you mentioned earlier, which is that you've got somebody reporting there's a cold spot, but you're measuring it accurately.
And you can do that quite cheaply. You know, there are various thermometers you can use to measure that cold spot.
But also it's useful to measure the temperature of people, because if they are also reporting a drop in temperature, you've got that. So that's the thing I would say.
And the last thing is, is a is a shout out to parapsychologists as well as you guys, which is I'm incredibly grateful to the two of you for me coming on to your show, because I think I think we should talk more.
And I say you two and me, but also all ghost hunters out there, parapsychologists who are doing the science stuff, you know, stuck in our ivory towers.
We don't tend to get out into the field and I'm an exception, but we publish all of the stuff, which is interesting.
But also we've got so much to learn from you guys in terms of what you do out in the field.
So if anything, this is kind of a last speech on my soapbox to say, yeah, let's let's talk more.
Absolutely. Absolutely. We'll have you on many times if you want. Absolutely.
You can be our our resident, our resident. Join the podcast. You know what I'm saying? Residents get to.
Yeah, I love it. I love it. If you want to you tell us when you're free, if you want to come on once a month or something like that, that's that's totally fine. Amazing.
Yeah, there's so much we can learn and stuff we could show to and have your opinion on it because we're all we know.
I think it's so important that nowadays we were so conflicted in this world, like someone's opinion.
And on this show, we're all about someone's opinion and someone's research and anything like that, because I believe even if it's a beginner, like me and Robin both agree with, we can learn and further our research by learning from either experiences or stuff that, you know, you have learned through your research and studies.
And I just think working together like that instead of making this into such a competition that people are making it into nowadays, especially with YouTube and everything.
I just think there's so much we can learn from each other working together.
Absolutely. We're all citizen scientists. At the end of the day, we're all going out there doing science, really observing, you know, recording, using gadgets or whatever approach we're doing.
There's an observational aspect to it, which is always a scientific starting point.
Yeah, absolutely.
Kieran, before you go, Don again said, obviously, don't forget to check out your online amazing programs in parapsychology.
Thanks, Don.
Where they can find those, please. And also that link below, the Linktree, if they want to look it down there, please go to Kieran down there and tell them that we sent you.
But go ahead, Kieran. Shout out where they can find those programs.
And anything else as well, Kieran, websites or anything.
Yeah, definitely. So if you go to that Linktree link there, you'll find a link to my new book that came out this week, actually, Ghosted, which is about ghost research.
So that came out this week. You've got a link on that Linktree website to my courses, the School of Parapsychology.equid.com.
So it's an online parapsychology school. But also there's a page on the Linktree for my research articles as well. But yeah, any of that.
And I'm grateful to Don, who's a current student of the school, doing one of the parapsychology courses.
But there's courses on demonology, poltergeist, exorcism, possession, ghost hunting, you name it.
Any of those courses, too. So yeah, very cool.
Well, you guys heard it first. I'm talking with the source.
Kieran, thank you so much for coming on again. We can't wait to have you on again. So we'll be in contact through email.
Ella Jates, we're going to obviously get back to you. We'll also send it to Kieran after reviewing it, see what he thinks of people that he could send it to.
And I'm sure he'll be reaching out personally. If he's too busy, we'll just reach out through our email at talkingwiththesource.gmail.com.
But Kieran, thank you so much, man. Honestly, so much.
Honestly, I can't thank you enough. And I apologize again. It took so long.
Not at all. Thank you very much. We've done it. That's the main thing. We've started.
We've started. But we're nowhere near finished.
Exactly. There's so much more to talk about. So thank you, AJ. Thank you, Robin.
Not a problem. Thank you all for all the questions.
Thank you, everybody. Thank you. See you soon. Bye bye.
OK, well, oh, my gosh, that was you know, I can't believe the hour went by so quick, man. Like I wanted to keep going because Shelley had some awesome questions that like it didn't even cross my mind.
I still have questions I didn't even ask. You have questions that you didn't even really get to ask because we talked about.
I could talk to him all night. I could literally talk to that guy all night.
You know, and it's funny because a lot of thank you, Don, as well. Don says thank you all. Thank you, Don, for coming on and, you know, watching us watching this with us and participating.
That's what we truly like. Also, Sarah, to our sister, you love that guys. What an awesome podcast. Thank you so much, Sarah. We appreciate you.
And Shelley, thank you. Please feel free to come back anytime we have. We'll be having on more people. We'll be having Dave Schrader on when his new show comes on.
Hopefully we're also having Patty Negri on again. We're going to be having a lot of different guests as well as local on the globe. Yes.
And Karen will be on 100 percent multiple times again. And I learned so much.
I mean, you know what? Whether the person scientific or completely skeptical, like I said to Karen and I said to you, you know, we can learn so much and further our research by having someone like that question our stuff and further it.
You know, so you know what? Right. I'm going to say this now on camera and I'm not I'm not.
No, I'm not. I'm being I'm being 100 percent serious.
OK, it's not normal for me.
Is.
I love that guy. Right. A lot of people always used to question is most haunted real or is most haunted fake.
Now, I grew up watching it. Right. And I loved it. And I believed it. But I'm going to tell you now.
If that gentleman there that was just been on Dr. Karen O'Keefe, if he has associated himself with that, then as far as I'm concerned, it's real.
No, I mean, he told you straight out. Yeah. Yeah. It's that he is the most genuine guy you will in this field you will ever meet.
Yeah. No, he's been so, like, helpful with all the things we've been dealing with and you've been dealing with emergency wise and rescheduling.
I mean, for him being so busy to come on two days after, I mean, it's just he's just awesome.
I mean, we got to talk to him a little bit before this. And you know what? I just told you, I can't wait to have my guy, man.
So, you know, I'm not only that, but when I started when I joined up with you on this and I started booking in guests,
he was always one. And, you know, I've been emailing him, trying to get a hold of him. Absolutely.
So honestly, that guy is amazing. And, you know, whoever he goes to work for, they'll only flourish.
Yeah, no, I totally agree. Totally agree.
Doofus, I want to say I apologize. You did say she and I totally apologize about that.
I can't see on YouTube a picture, so we don't know exactly who it is except for Facebook.
I don't know why that is. So I very do apologize. I did not mean any disrespect by that.
And yes, there I remember Ghostwatch. I was actually just I don't he doesn't remember it.
But yeah, it scared scared me. And I just watched it a couple of months ago.
But, you know, we just appreciate everybody watching.
We want all of our viewers to get involved, ask questions like you've seen.
It's very important to us because if we have somebody on like Patty Negri or, you know,
Zach Baggins or anything like anyone who's in that field like Kieran or someone who's been on a TV show
and obviously not everyone gets to have a conversation with those people.
And there's so many questions that people like Shelly can ask that, like I said, further our research
and also Kieran's. So please, you know, join us every week.
We have another show that's going to be coming up Saturday with Kevin Williams of Red Ridge Paranormal.
So please join us on Saturday. I'm not too sure exactly the time I'd have to look at my notes,
but just go on our social medias on Talking with the Source on Facebook, Twitter, also YouTube.
We just started putting our stuff on YouTube. But if you want to watch all older episodes,
you can go right on our Facebook. We have everything from even before this was named
Talking with the Source before this really became a serious podcast.
But again, thank you guys so much and to Dr. Kieran O'Keefe. Absolutely.
And also for everybody watching as well, if you ever want to have a little bit of the male AJ dressed as a woman,
will you just shout out the street corner on? Listen, don't make me don't make me put that hat picture out of you.
If you guys watch this, basically what you're going to see is me and him constantly making fun of each other.
It's all in fun and games. So don't mind us. We get a little stupid sometimes, but it's all in fun and games.
Yeah, don't you see I pointed out myself. Damn it. Exactly. I forgot it was reversed.
I forgot it was reversed. But anyway, guys, this has been another episode of Talking with the Source.
We're going to show a couple of videos before we end this completely. But thank you guys so much again.
I'm AJ from Coventry Circle Paranormal. And you never give a shout out to our big friends, Mr.
and Mrs. AAP from AAP's Variety Channel. Check them out. As far as I'm aware, they're actually live now on YouTube.
Check them out.
You guys have YouTube, anything, please head over to Mr.
and Mrs. AAP Variety Channel is what it's called on YouTube.
They allow you to share your channel. They help pollinate your channel, share it out to thousands of people.
Tell them Robin and AJ send you.
I know. Absolutely. So appreciate you guys so much and we will definitely be seeing you on Saturday.
So talk to you guys soon. Bye bye.
Thank you.