1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,000
10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1

2
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:42,000
What's going on everybody? This is AJ Capasso here with Country Circle Paranormal and I'm here with my good friend as always.

3
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,000
Robin from Hawthorne Paranormal.

4
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,000
That was so flat. That was no excitement.

5
00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,000
I am.

6
00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:53,000
He's a moap, I tell ya. Just messing with you.

7
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:58,000
But we are talking with the source. Thank you so much for being with us and watching another episode.

8
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,000
This is going to be a great episode.

9
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:08,000
Unfortunately, we've had so many hurdles to get our guest on today, but he has been so awesome to us and we cannot thank him enough.

10
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,000
But first, before we get started, we just want to do some shout outs real quick.

11
00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,000
First shout out we want to do is to our good friends at Petey Region Paranormal.

12
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:22,000
They have so much stuff going on. Head over to their social medias and check out some of the stuff that they do.

13
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,000
It's absolutely amazing.

14
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:28,000
The other one we want to shout out is Ghost Energy Drinks.

15
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:35,000
Head over there. They have some amazing creepy drinks like Swedish Fish, Sour Patch Kids, you name it.

16
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,000
They got it. Orange Creamsicle, which I still want to try, Robin, to be honest.

17
00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,000
It kind of sounds kind of good.

18
00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,000
I can't get that in over here.

19
00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:47,000
I know, you're right. But it's all at all health food stores like GNC, stuff like that.

20
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:52,000
So if you are in America, I don't believe it's in the UK yet, but I'm not too sure, like Robin has said.

21
00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,000
They also have pre-workout stuff as well.

22
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,000
Another brother of ours is the Paranormal Consultant.

23
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,000
Head over there. He has a great podcast with his friends, the Para Crew Podcast.

24
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,000
We had them on not too long ago, I believe last week.

25
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,000
So definitely check out that episode and go check out their stuff.

26
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:13,000
One thing we do want to say is Global Ghost Hunt. The website is up.

27
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,000
It's www.globalghosthunt.com.

28
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,000
Registration is available right now.

29
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:23,000
So teams and researchers all around the globe, join us.

30
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:29,000
Go to the website, go to the social medias and even TikTok and check out what we have to offer.

31
00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:35,000
Major production, major exposure for all the teams and researchers involved and the locations.

32
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:40,000
And that's one of the main things is keeping these locations on and keeping them going because, you know,

33
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,000
it takes a lot to keep them up to par and not falling apart.

34
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:50,000
Another one we want to give a shout out to is the P3 United States family.

35
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:55,000
And we also want to give a shout out to the P3 UK Division as well.

36
00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,000
P3 program is about Paranormal Unity.

37
00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,000
Great, great group of people that we are with right now from the UK and United States.

38
00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:07,000
So go on Facebook and social media. Check out the P3 program.

39
00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,000
It's absolutely amazing. Anyone is able to join it.

40
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:16,000
So definitely check it out if you're a researcher and you're into having a family in this paranormal field

41
00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,000
and getting away from the competition.

42
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:26,000
We also want to shout out to our good friend and brother from huntaphobia on ParaFlix right now, Brian J. Levery.

43
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:30,000
We could not be more happy with the success that he is having right now.

44
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:38,000
He's about to be on the in the magazine Beyond the Grave talking about Parapos, talking about huntaphobia

45
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,000
and talking about Global Ghost Hunt, which he started and is founder of that and ParaPost.

46
00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,000
So that leads me into shouting out to where we are live right now.

47
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,000
We are on ParaPost Network Central on Facebook.

48
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:55,000
If you like podcasts of the paranormal, please head over to ParaPost Network Central.

49
00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:03,000
You can also head over to parapost.net and you can even go to iOS or Android and download the ParaPost app,

50
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:07,000
which is basically an app you could share your stuff on, meet a bunch of great people,

51
00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:12,000
a community of paranormal researchers from all over and, you know, just just join us.

52
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,000
I mean, it's absolutely great, but no more delay.

53
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:21,000
Robin, give our guest the proper intro he deserves.

54
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,000
I will indeed. And hello to the V Team Paranormal.

55
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,000
Hey V Team. Thank you for watching.

56
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:34,000
Today we have on a massive guest for us, a true gentleman,

57
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,000
a guy that I've been watching for years on end.

58
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:48,000
I couldn't even tell you how many years anybody who's watched UK's most haunted on TV will know this man.

59
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:54,000
Parapsychologist forensic parapsychologist, absolute genius in the paranormal world.

60
00:04:54,000 --> 00:05:01,000
Can't give him high enough regard. Please welcome everybody. Dr. Kieran O'Keefe.

61
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:05,000
Kieran, you got him on.

62
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,000
Hi, how are you?

63
00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,000
How is the weather over there here? It's real hot right now.

64
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:19,000
Yeah, very hot. It's getting to 39. What is that in your temperature? 90, is it? 90 plus?

65
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,000
Yeah, yeah.

66
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,000
Can I just stop you there, Robin? Introduce me.

67
00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:32,000
That is by far the best introduction that I've ever had in my life because you use the word genius.

68
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,000
Genius of the paranormal. I've never been called that before.

69
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:44,000
Honestly, I tell you, I love that when I watched every live, every series of most haunted, I watched it all.

70
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:57,000
Honestly, if there was someone that needed to be told or needed to be debunked or whatever way you want to call it, you were the man for it.

71
00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:08,000
I used to love it because the one thing that I can't have as a paranormal investigator myself is walking around and everything that happens is paranormal.

72
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:15,000
It's paranormal. The word I despise is demonic.

73
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:20,000
Everything is not a demon. I don't care what you say.

74
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:31,000
It's good to have someone with your knowledge that can walk around with a team like that, especially when it's on TV and say, right, yes, something did happen there,

75
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:45,000
which maybe can't be explained, but maybe there is an explanation for it. You're able to measure and gauge any drafts that were coming into a room and things like this.

76
00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,000
You've got to be able to do that.

77
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,000
Yeah, I appreciate it.

78
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:59,000
I mean, all I was doing was lending, in a way, balance and kind of a skeptical perspective, but skeptical doesn't mean cynical.

79
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:06,000
You know, and as you guys know, when we're talking about ghost hunting, if anything, skeptical is the best way to be.

80
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:11,000
The fact that you're open minded, but you're questioning the evidence that's presented to you.

81
00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:16,000
And I think that is the case for most ghost hunters.

82
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:22,000
And I've always been a ghost hunter as well as a parapsychologist, you know, and the two kind of slightly different things.

83
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:30,000
But, you know, I've always gone into the ghost hunting side of things as a skeptic, questioning, but open minded, you know, and yeah, loved it.

84
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,000
Loved my time on Most Haunted. Absolutely. It's brilliant.

85
00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:41,000
I wanted to first go quick. Don Kirkman of Kirkham. I hope I didn't pronounce that wrong. Apologize.

86
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,000
Kirkham.

87
00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:49,000
He says, I'm here for Kieran. If you haven't attended any of his online programs, you are missing something amazing.

88
00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:53,000
I know you are happy to hear that. That's brilliant. Thanks, Don.

89
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:59,000
And to lead up first question from one of our viewers, we like to get all our viewers involved from Shelly.

90
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:04,000
She says, hi, is Most Haunted real? I figured I'd like to hear that.

91
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,000
Yeah. Why not dive in at the deep end? That's brilliant. What a question to start with.

92
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,000
Yeah. Why not start with that question? The answer is yes.

93
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:18,000
But it's yes with a caveat, because if you ask a different member of the Most Haunted crew, they might have a different answer.

94
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:29,000
So yes, it's real, as in genuinely what was happening was that there was a team of people who were going into an allegedly haunted location.

95
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:35,000
And that team of people had three people at the front, Yvette Fielding, the presenter, the medium, and then myself.

96
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:42,000
Or in the past, it was an investigator, Phil Wyman, Jason Karl. So it's the three of us.

97
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:47,000
But then you also had the team, which is the cameraman, the sound man, et cetera.

98
00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,000
But spending the night in a haunted location.

99
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:59,000
So in terms of Shelly's question, it's real for that reason that we were genuinely investigating.

100
00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:08,000
It wasn't, you know, yes, you got you got 50 minutes or an hour edited down from, you know, 10, 12 hours of footage,

101
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,000
but also repeated footage because you got lots of different visuals going on around the location.

102
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:18,000
So, yes, it's edited down, but it's not scripted. It wasn't prepared or anything like that.

103
00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,000
You know, it's genuinely we're going and investigating.

104
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:31,000
But I think from my perspective, and a lot of viewers will know, I remained skeptical and at times somewhat cynical about some of the evidence

105
00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:37,000
that was captured about some of the claims that were made by individuals on the show in terms of what they experienced.

106
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:43,000
Whilst at other times there might have been interesting things that were completely missed where people said,

107
00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:50,000
oh, you know, I feel a bit weird when I walk into this room. I don't feel right. I feel a bit emotional. I'm going to stop.

108
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:57,000
You know, that happened to crew members. But of course, it didn't necessarily make the final cut because it's not as exciting as smash bang wallop.

109
00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:03,000
I've been scratched by a demon and, you know, there's Uncle Bob standing over there in the corner spitting at me.

110
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:10,000
You know, I mean, the sensational stuff makes it to TV, but the sensational stuff doesn't necessarily make it.

111
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:17,000
And actually hidden amongst all of the experience of the crew, there might have been genuine experiences.

112
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,000
There might have been. Yeah. You know, we'll never know.

113
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:29,000
But I saw some quite traumatic reactions from members of the crew to experiences they had that never really made it onto camera.

114
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:41,000
Yeah. Not only that as well, Karen, from watching it, you obviously like you say, you had the time limit when you've done a live and it was on for three hours, which was great.

115
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:47,000
But obviously you had to have the time in the studio. You maybe had a guest or two that had to be interviewed.

116
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:53,000
You had to go to Leslie or Richard Felix at a time for, you know, your historian side of it.

117
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:59,000
You had the the the multi interactive side of it.

118
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,000
Oh, yeah. You know, so you had all these different parts.

119
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,000
It wasn't just the three hours of live cameras.

120
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,000
You always had these different bits.

121
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:12,000
And then obviously when you had to relocate, you always went back to the studio while you relocated.

122
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:20,000
So I think and I think I think the other thing is there's a difference in my mind between the live shows.

123
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:27,000
Most wanted live, which you've described perfectly, Robin, and then the episodes, the live shows.

124
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,000
There is that pressure and that sense of let's go back to the studio.

125
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:36,000
Let's speak to Leslie, the historian or Richard Felix. Let's, you know, hear what the audience have to say.

126
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:45,000
You know, all of that is very much pressure and it feels like almost completely unnatural when ghost hunting the episodes.

127
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:52,000
At least there was a semblance of an investigation. There wasn't the pressure of a live studio of having to finish within three hours.

128
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,000
You stayed for as long as you wanted to.

129
00:11:55,000 --> 00:12:07,000
And a lot of those early episodes of most most haunted, the team were genuinely staying till six, seven o'clock in the morning, you know, the whole night and doing multiple vigils.

130
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,000
You know, so it felt a little bit more like an investigation.

131
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,000
All be it. It wasn't controlled because you've got cameras around.

132
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:21,000
You've got sound men around. You've got you've still got a lot of people around.

133
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:28,000
But it was one of those shows together with Ghost Hunters and some of the other shows that basically kickstarted a boom.

134
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:33,000
Oh, unreal. Right. I mean, paranormal used to be in the closet.

135
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,000
Now all of a sudden, it's the most mainstream thing in the world.

136
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:41,000
I mean, I remember there was only like twenty five hundred teams maybe ten years ago. Now there's over 10 billion teams.

137
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:47,000
So everywhere you look, one of the things that you said and I kind of forgot because I got so into what you were saying.

138
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,000
First, I'll say Shelly said a nice psychology reply with a smile.

139
00:12:51,000 --> 00:13:00,000
So you love that reply. One of the things I want to say was I was told by obviously a production team and also through Travel Channel as well.

140
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:08,000
One of the production people that I talked to, he was like, you know, it's 50 percent entertainment and then 50 percent in real investigating.

141
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:14,000
Like the investigation is real. But then they sense you have to sensationalize to make it entertaining for the people in the studio.

142
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:22,000
Like you were saying, you get all these eight, ten hours of different angles and footage, but you have to lower it down to this 45 minute or hour show.

143
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:27,000
And I think, yeah, I think, AJ, you're absolutely right to get that insight on it.

144
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:35,000
And I always say to people, you know, if you sat down and watched any paranormal show for an hour, what would be the most exciting thing to watch?

145
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:41,000
Would it be two investigators sitting in a sat in a haunted room for an hour when nothing happens?

146
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:48,000
Which which, let's be honest, we all know that, you know, you could be watched like watching paint dry on some investigation.

147
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:59,000
So do you watch that for an hour or when it's TV, there's producers involved thinking about the audience at home and going, well, we need to make this interesting.

148
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:04,000
We need to think about it in like 10 minute bites and think, how can this be interesting for them?

149
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:11,000
So on the one hand, you know, skeptical about paranormal phenomena, especially within the TV context.

150
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:19,000
But on the other hand, like you said, I get it. You know, this TV has to be interesting. It has to engage the viewer.

151
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:24,000
And whilst we can be critical of a lot of the stuff and a lot of the current shows,

152
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:34,000
it's also given that impetus and that kind of trigger for people to go out and ghost hunt themselves and find out for themselves what ghost hunting is all about.

153
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:41,000
Absolutely. Tell you, Most Haunted was the first paranormal investigation show that she watched and loved it.

154
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:47,000
You know, it's still great. It's like that. And also like Ghost Hunters like that.

155
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,000
So a lot of people that couldn't really get into Ghost Hunters, even though it's such a great show,

156
00:14:51,000 --> 00:15:01,000
but it was because they really had not that much sensationalism as like say ghost adventures, you know, like, and you know, it's it's it's sad that we have to go that way.

157
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:08,000
But for entertainment purposes, I mean, like you said, you're not going to sit and watch pain try, you know, so I totally get it.

158
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:15,000
I think I think in the in the UK and the US, the difference between all of us as well is from my view anyway,

159
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:22,000
that, you know, there was nothing really like this over here. There was there was, you know, there was absolutely nothing.

160
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,000
Then Most Haunted come on the scene and it just blew up.

161
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:35,000
It just went, you know, because they were doing the lives and stuff and it was something different to what was ever being shown on TV.

162
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:44,000
And it was like it grabbed my attention. The first time I ever seen it, I was thinking through the channels one night and they were walking about.

163
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:52,000
I had night vision cameras and stuff on and straight away I thought, right, you know, you look at a screen in this dark room with a night vision camera and you think,

164
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:57,000
obviously, that's kind of thing on TV before you start watching it, you start getting what it's about.

165
00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:03,000
And before you know it, three hours has gone by, the live ends and you're still sitting watching it.

166
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:08,000
And it's like, right, you know, there was there was a gap in the market for this.

167
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:16,000
And it leads, you know, it leads on to, you know, different things like, for instance, in the States.

168
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:21,000
I don't know, AJ, you can correct me here, but I think Taps was one of the first ones, wasn't it?

169
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,000
Well, yeah, the Ghost Hunter TV attack.

170
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:37,000
So then nobody really knows or is that much interested in the actual ghost hunting thing because, you know, it's like it's a small sort of click of people that do it around the world.

171
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:43,000
But something like this bursts onto the scene and it captures those people's imaginations.

172
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:48,000
And all of a sudden you're like, I want to do that.

173
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:58,000
You know, I mean, it's like I think that then obviously when most haunted then went stateside as well, you did Eastern Eastern Penitentiary, didn't you, Karen?

174
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:06,000
Yes, Eastern State Penitentiary, which is one of my favorite locations based in Philadelphia and also West Virginia State Penitentiary.

175
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:11,000
But the Eastern State was the one where we did the live show. Yeah. Yeah.

176
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:20,000
So that was amazing. It's interesting what you say about shows of that type and most haunted being the first and Shelley saying we started a trend.

177
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,000
I think I think you're right.

178
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:30,000
And of course, you've got to remember, you know, the Stephen Carl and Yvette were the ones that started it.

179
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,000
And it started with Jason Carl as the investigator before I joined a few years later.

180
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:41,000
Interestingly, that was 2002 Ghost Hunter started a year or two after that.

181
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,000
So the Taps guy starts a year or two after that.

182
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:48,000
And there was something about the show as being a televised investigation.

183
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:59,000
Elements of it that had happened before in an American context and also in in kind of a British context in the U.S.

184
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:04,000
context, you rewind about two years and you have a show called MTV Fear.

185
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:10,000
So it's a show called Fear where effectively it was almost like a game show in a way.

186
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:19,000
But it was but it was, you know, contestants like a group of five or so people left in a haunted house or haunted location for a period of days.

187
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:24,000
And things happen to them or CCTV happening or those sorts of things.

188
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:30,000
And but they had moments where there were night vision cameras or CCTV.

189
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,000
That was 2000.

190
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:40,000
But then you can even go further back and Robin will notice the show, the one off show Ghost Watch.

191
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,000
I've never seen that.

192
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,000
Yeah, I see it was a one off.

193
00:18:46,000 --> 00:19:00,000
One off show. And it was basically the premise of it was an investigative team led by a blonde haired presenter accompanied by a medium and an investigator going into a haunted house.

194
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:07,000
And occasionally they go back to the studio where they'd be a skeptic sitting on the sofa, maybe with a historian.

195
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,000
And you start to describe it and go, that's most haunted.

196
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:16,000
And that happened about seven or eight years prior to most haunted actually know a lot longer than that.

197
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,000
Even a few decades.

198
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:24,000
What I'm trying to say is the shows before that came across as entertainment.

199
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:38,000
When most haunted and ghost hunters came along, I think what captured the imagination was it felt like you were watching people who could be you or I investigating and people looking at it going, that could easily be us.

200
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:43,000
These aren't special people. These aren't famous celebrities. These aren't contestants in a game show.

201
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,000
These aren't actors. These are just real people investigating. This is cool.

202
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,000
I would love to go and do this.

203
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:55,000
You know, I think that's right. Captured it. Maybe it was that element is that element of realism.

204
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,000
I think at the start as well, though, Karen, correct me if I'm wrong.

205
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:13,000
But in the first few lives and stuff, well, definitely the first one that I seen, there was a lot more time given back then and certain areas, should I say.

206
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:21,000
Like when when obviously when they're doing a walk around, I found it towards I know most haunted are still going online.

207
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:35,000
But towards the end of the living TV era of it, there was, you know, you'd be walking maybe from one room to another and it would have cut back to the studio for a bit and then would have come back to you when you're in that room.

208
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:44,000
Whereas when I started watching it, you know, there was a lot more time given if you were in a room, there was a lot more time given to the investigation in that room.

209
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:53,000
And then walk from there to another room. It was all really it was all sort of live as well. There was it wasn't as much studio time.

210
00:20:53,000 --> 00:21:00,000
And I think that's what caught me because it was like you're watching something about me personally anyway.

211
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:05,000
I'm watching something on TV that I've literally never seen before.

212
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,000
I'm not even seen it before, but it's not recorded.

213
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:22,000
It's live. You know, I mean, so if something happens, you know, and you see it on TV, if there's a cheer mood, it's like it's not you're thinking to yourself.

214
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:27,000
Right. Well, that's it. It's like that just happened because it's live.

215
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:34,000
And that's what really what really intrigued me to start with was the fact that it was being done live.

216
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:46,000
Yes. And I guess the key thing is you're absolutely right. At the time when it started, 2002 and then Ghost Hunters 2004 with the live shows that they both did.

217
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:52,000
It was happening at a time where live was almost unique.

218
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,000
It was almost reserved for sports events, maybe. And that sort of thing.

219
00:21:55,000 --> 00:22:09,000
Now, when we talk about shows being truly live or being live streamed as we are, you know, live streamed on YouTube through Facebook, through any social media platform, it's almost, you know, it's not apathy.

220
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:15,000
But we just kind of go. Yeah, it's nothing special to have that. But I think you're absolutely right, Robin.

221
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:22,000
There was something about that time that it was that live sense of you're following the action with less.

222
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:27,000
Yeah, coming back to the studio, you're less. You're just going, wow, this is happening right now.

223
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:39,000
Yeah, this is absolutely amazing. And especially I remember we did a Halloween special at a place called Clitherow, which is associated with witches in a particular area of England.

224
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:45,000
And on the particular night, we had a place called Tyndale Farm.

225
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:52,000
Everybody asked me about my favorite episode, and that was one of it. It was a live episode. And we're Tyndale Farm.

226
00:22:52,000 --> 00:23:14,000
And over the course of about an hour, we went from a crew of 12, 13 standing in the room witnessing kind of a science type and set up 12 or 13 of us was reduced down to about three of us because people were fainting, were collapsing, were overcome with difficulty breathing.

227
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:22,000
It was just the moment just kind of caught everybody. And it was a lot of it made of it being paranormal and everybody else thinks it's paranormal.

228
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:27,000
I had my own reasons of what I think was going on, as always, skeptical explanations.

229
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:32,000
But it was just one of those moments where people got excited because they're going, this is actually happening.

230
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:39,000
The cameraman has just fainted and the cameras crashed. And basically you got dead air for two minutes.

231
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:49,000
It was just a black screen on people's TVs at home when they went, what? WTF? What just happened?

232
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:55,000
Amazing, amazing time. I had a little bit. I must I must admit I'm going to hold my hand up here.

233
00:23:55,000 --> 00:24:06,000
I had a little bit of a thing that I used to do was I went to a lot of the locations that most haunted have been to that are in my in my vicinity.

234
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,000
As in I've been to Clitheroe quite a few times with the castle, keeping the hell and stuff.

235
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:22,000
And all over Pendle Hill, I went to a lower wellhead farm, parked the car, went party up the hill, stuff like that, because obviously it's quite near to me.

236
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:30,000
It's quite local. But my favorite place, I know obviously we're going to talk about more than most haunted on this,

237
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:37,000
but my favorite place that that is dead and I want to go to was Woodchester Mansion.

238
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:42,000
Oh, fantastic place. Amazing, amazing place.

239
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:52,000
So for those not familiar with Woodchester Mansion, effectively you've got this old mansion and what makes it truly unique is from the outside.

240
00:24:52,000 --> 00:25:03,000
It looks complete. It looks like a stunning. I was more think about it looking like a cathedral, but this enormous mansion from the outside looks fine.

241
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:09,000
But on the inside, it's just nothing. Basically, is it? You know, you've got the place, but there's actually not.

242
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:21,000
It's almost like an empty shell of a place. But also to get to it, you're going down a drive, you know, and it's kind of like it's an archetypal horror journey, isn't it?

243
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:29,000
To go down the driveway as you get to Woodchester, which is to mention it's absolutely brilliant, brilliant place.

244
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,000
Brilliant place. I just ask you as well, Karen, why we're on the subject.

245
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:40,000
And then the part in that mansion when you I think is we're in the in the loft part of it.

246
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,000
Hello, Brian. And there was a there was a stone thrown, wasn't there?

247
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:49,000
There was a rock or something thrown across camera. Yes. Yeah.

248
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:55,000
Which was which was which was brilliant because it was caught on camera. Yeah.

249
00:25:55,000 --> 00:26:06,000
That's one of those moments. And I think, yeah, I can't remember exactly what I said, but I can almost think what I would have said is how impressive it was because we finally got one caught on camera.

250
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,000
Typically, what happened in that in those sorts of scenarios is you just hear it.

251
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:15,000
It lands and then you may be able to film it, but you're able to see it go across the camera.

252
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:26,000
The issue, of course, with it, as I said, with any objects that are flying is if we got footage of where it starts and we get the trajectory and where it finishes, then that's impressive.

253
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,000
So we can see the starting point. We didn't get the starting point at Woodchester Mansion.

254
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,000
We got it flying through the air, but we don't know where it started from.

255
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,000
Did it start from unseen hands or from seen hands?

256
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:47,000
Yeah. And bearing in mind as well for anybody that's watching, when this is happening, you're in the pitch pitch black pitch dark.

257
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:53,000
Yeah. So you can't actually discount that someone could be over that way.

258
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,000
But still, it is impressive.

259
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:06,000
There was that one and there was one near the start when I was talking to Richard Felix about it when he was on, where they were in a basement of a I think it was a farmhouse.

260
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:15,000
And Richard Felix and David Wells were sat at a table asking it to move and the table actually shot into Richard Felix.

261
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:20,000
You mean moved moved apparently of its own accord into Richard.

262
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,000
Yeah. I wonder where that was.

263
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:30,000
Because if it was David Wells, it wouldn't have been very, very early on because I think it was a few hours before he joined.

264
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:36,000
I think it was I think it was quite early in his in his tenure there.

265
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,000
Well, table phenomena always intrigues me.

266
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,000
I was going to get into huge arguments with people about table phenomena.

267
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,000
Yeah. Just don't touch the table.

268
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,000
And then if it moves, I'll be impressed.

269
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,000
Yeah. No. Oh, you understand. Absolutely.

270
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,000
You're absolutely right. I mean, yeah, it's funny because you have to be if you're an investigator, you have to be skeptical.

271
00:27:54,000 --> 00:28:08,000
I mean, as much as when you're in this for so long, you obviously get that thing where it's like, OK, you know, I know this is spirit, but you can't you kind of can't get like that almost because, you know, then you start, you know, not debunking things that you should.

272
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:14,000
One of the things I do want to ask, I do kind of want to switch gears real quick because we are going to have you on again.

273
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,000
We only have an hour with you today, which we greatly appreciate.

274
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:32,000
But I want to switch gears on first. I just want to say to a couple of Don just said, she said, I've done a couple of investigations at the place you just mentioned, had a couple of cool experiences, but what made people scream was a mouse that was running across the room.

275
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,000
And then Stuart said he used to be a part of a paranormal group and he did.

276
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:48,000
They did, which Esther, as it is down the road from them and it's an amazing place. And he said they did they did deliver a couple which did deliver a couple unexplained events.

277
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:57,000
But one thing I did want you to talk about a little bit was how you got into this, how you got into what intrigued you to be in parapsychology.

278
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:08,000
Like in what was an experience that you had that maybe forced you into this or got you into this field, if you don't mind asking. Yeah, that's I mean, that's a brilliant question.

279
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:14,000
I guess very, very early on. My parents were genuinely concerned about my reading material.

280
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:29,000
I was fascinated by ghost stories and I even as a young boy, I was reading the works of M.R. James, H.P. Lovecraft, James Herbert, the UK author, Stephen King, even some of his short stories, Clive Barber a little bit later on.

281
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,000
So there was something that I was fascinated by ghost stories.

282
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:48,000
But then fast forward and I was a voracious watcher of paranormal documentary type things. So there was a show Arthur C. Clarke's Mysterious World that was around when I was a very young teenager, so 11, 12 years old.

283
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:58,000
So I loved that. But then actually the turning point for me was 1984, age 13, and the movie Ghostbusters came out.

284
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:04,000
That that that was it. You know, I had never had any aspirations prior to that to be a parapsychologist.

285
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,000
And that film came out when I was 13 and I thought, no, that's what I want to do.

286
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:18,000
I want to be a parapsychologist, you know, and hoped that I one day I would be like Dr. Peter Venkman and my proton pack and all that.

287
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:33,000
You know, it would have been so cool. But yet. So even to the point where after finishing school, I made a conscious decision to go to university in the States so I could study parapsychology.

288
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,000
It's very difficult to do that in the UK and in Europe.

289
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:42,000
But actually in the US, there are a few places that are more open to studying parapsychology.

290
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:52,000
So, yeah, so I ended up studying at a university out in the States and spending some time at the Institute of Parapsychology or what's known as Ryan Research Center.

291
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,000
But yeah, that was the key. That was the key for me is Ghostbusters.

292
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:01,000
And then as a teenager, you know, the odd ghost hunt here and there and that whetted the appetite.

293
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,000
And I just thought this is what I want to do. That's so great.

294
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:12,000
I totally kind of see your parents being a little concerned about your material. Lovecraft.

295
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,000
I want to say what Shelley said real quick.

296
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:23,000
She first asked the Australian paranormal investigators and me and Robin do know Night Watchers of Australia on that's on Paraflix.

297
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,000
How about you, Karen? Do you know any teams from Australia by chance?

298
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:34,000
Yeah, there's there's is it the API, which is actually the Australian Paranormal Investigators, which I think are based in Brisbane.

299
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:41,000
And there's a a researcher as well called Sarah.

300
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:48,000
And I always get her surname wrong. I think it's Sarah Chumaka. Sarah Chumaka, I think, is her surname.

301
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:58,000
But she she writes a blog, kind of a regular blog and does fantastic research. And the blog is always about things that you need to know as a ghost hunter.

302
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:07,000
So why are we interested in temperature, for example, or why do we use an EMF meter or what's the best ghost box to use and that sort of thing?

303
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:13,000
And she's very, very active. And I recommend people digging out her blog.

304
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:20,000
But yeah, it's actually quite active in Australia. There are quite a few investigators, quite a few groups.

305
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:25,000
They're mainly centered around Brisbane area and Sydney and I think a couple in Melbourne.

306
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:31,000
But yes, relatively, relatively active in terms of investigators.

307
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:39,000
Awesome. Shelly also asked, which you already answered basically, but she did say, how did you get into parapsychology, which you just actually answered in our Sarah?

308
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:47,000
I mean, our our sister and part of our paranormal family, Sarah Sarri said, hello, Dr.

309
00:32:47,000 --> 00:33:05,000
Sierr. That's me waving. And I wanted to ask, is there was there actually, you know, first thing I want to ask is, what is to explain parapsychology to someone that doesn't quite really understand that kind of just knows the term.

310
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:12,000
Can you explain it a little? Yes. So very basically, it's the scientific study of the paranormal.

311
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:21,000
The issue is, what is the paranormal? It's huge. It's a vast, vast subject. Parapsychology does not study all of it.

312
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:29,000
It doesn't look into yetis, UFOs and induction, Loch Ness. It focuses on a particular area, the paranormal.

313
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:38,000
And that is three areas. The first is ESP, extra sensory perception, which covers things like telepathy, precognition to predicting the future.

314
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:46,000
The second area it covers is PK, which is psychokinesis, which is the action of the mind on an object.

315
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:52,000
And then the third area of study is after death communication or survival, basically.

316
00:33:52,000 --> 00:34:01,000
And it's things like hauntings, mediumship, poltergeist, that sort of thing. So those are that's the main focus of what parapsychologist is interested.

317
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:10,000
Awesome. Awesome. Hey, look who's on. I know. I just want to say so Robin's wife, Julie, she just said hi and hi to you as well.

318
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:15,000
And I'm sure she's what downstairs, Robin or in the other room? Yeah, she's downstairs watching. She's another one.

319
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:21,000
It was always me and her watch most haunted. And she loves hearing well. Hi, Julie.

320
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:26,000
Robin, go ahead. Please.

321
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:35,000
I was just going to I was going to say, is there anywhere in the UK, Kieran, that that you haven't visited that you would love to go to do a ghost hunt?

322
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:42,000
Whether it, you know, obviously, you've done practically rinsed the UK with most haunted.

323
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:52,000
Yeah, there are there are still places left, you know, in the UK and in North America. So in the UK, my dream location is the Tower of London.

324
00:34:52,000 --> 00:35:00,000
You know, when you think about locations, absolutely, that would be a key one is is the Tower of London.

325
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:19,000
You know, if you rewind back about 20 years, very few people remember it. But Halloween, about 20 years ago, just before most haunted or maybe just the year before most haunted was started, there was a live ghost hunt from Tower of London.

326
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:35,000
And it happened. It was interesting, maybe not the most engaging show, but unfortunately, the the crew and the team involved did not do what they should have done.

327
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:47,000
They didn't adhere to the rules of the Tower of London. And it's almost as though from that day, the Tower of London shut its doors to investigations, which is, you know, annoying, to say the least.

328
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:53,000
So Tower of London definitely in the UK in North America.

329
00:35:53,000 --> 00:36:02,000
There are so many locations, so many locations, but it covered quite a few. And I've done investigations over there. I actually did investigations as well with

330
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:12,000
the Taps guys as well, quite a few years ago, 50, 60 years ago, we did an investigation in northern Florida at the time.

331
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:20,000
But I've always I've always wanted to go to Alcatraz. Oh, me too. That seems like such a great show. Yeah. Amazing location.

332
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:28,000
I was very close to there when we did Winchester Mystery House. Oh, don't stop it. Right there to go there.

333
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:34,000
Is that a dream? Really? That's my ideal location. Superb. Absolutely superb.

334
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:44,000
So, yeah, we were there. Is it San Jose in California? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Which is just down the road from San Francisco where Alcatraz was.

335
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:52,000
And I'm just kicking myself that I didn't stay a few extra days and go and spend some time at Alcatraz. But Winchester Mystery House. What a place.

336
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:59,000
What an absolute place. And I remember the walk up to it. So I hadn't seen it. I'd seen it online, but hadn't visited.

337
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:10,000
You know, arrived in San Jose, got over my jet lag the first day, walking up the road to see the Winchester Mystery House.

338
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:25,000
And as I approached kind of the front of it, it was a surreal moment because I bumped into an actor who I have the greatest admiration for Giovanni Robisi.

339
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:30,000
And this actor was just standing there in front of Winchester Mystery House.

340
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:36,000
And I went, oh, hi, Giovanni. And he went hi. And then just walked off. And I thought, this is surreal.

341
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:41,000
Here's a location that I have seen and thought how amazing would it be to investigate.

342
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:49,000
And I'm almost being greeted at this Winchester Mystery House by this amazing American celebrity, Giovanni.

343
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:55,000
And then three now. Exactly. But then walked into the house.

344
00:37:55,000 --> 00:38:01,000
And you're right. You know, Robin, in terms of your excitement, I was like being a kid in a toy shop.

345
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:06,000
It was just phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal. Really was.

346
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:16,000
I spent quite a bit of time there when we weren't filming, just walking around with my jaw open, just going, yeah, I cannot believe.

347
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:22,000
I told you, AJ, I used to like Kieran.

348
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:28,000
That place, just the construction of that place and the way it was built is just mind blowing.

349
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:35,000
I mean, you know, it's amazing that it's amazing that she didn't get sent by the lady when she was building it.

350
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,000
It's amazing they didn't put her in a nuthouse to be completely on, you know, back in the days.

351
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:44,000
I mean, the house is just absolutely amazing from what I've seen from videos and stuff like that.

352
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,000
I haven't got to go there, which I would love to go there.

353
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:50,000
I just haven't had the chance. But I tell you, it's absolutely amazing.

354
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,000
Like you said, and that seemed like such an awesome experience to have.

355
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:58,000
And I picked up I picked up an old 1930s.

356
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,000
I was in 19, 19, 20s postcard of the Winchester Mystery House.

357
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:12,000
There is a souvenir. And when myself and my wife, we had our second born little girl when she got to about the age of four or five.

358
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:17,000
We were looking at the postcard thinking, should we should we sell this, you know, sign it and sell it?

359
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,000
Is it sort of thing somebody might? And then we're like, well, no, maybe we shouldn't. Not sure.

360
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,000
And then my little girl came along. Yes, she was about four or five.

361
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:30,000
And she just pointed pointed at when who's that lady?

362
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:34,000
And we went, what are you talking about? And it was just a photograph of the house.

363
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,000
Nothing else, just the house. She pointed to him. Who's that lady?

364
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,000
What are you talking about? What lady?

365
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:47,000
And she pointed at the window of the upper floor and went, that lady there, who's that?

366
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:52,000
The lady of white. And we had been looking at this photo, I kid you not, for donkey's ears.

367
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:59,000
Never seen anything. And she pointed at the window and there looked like the outline of this white lady.

368
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,000
And at that moment, we said, no, we're never getting rid of that photo. No way.

369
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,000
Well, yeah. Do you believe it was Elizabeth?

370
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:11,000
Elizabeth Winchester? Yes, of course it was Elizabeth Winchester. And I'm a believer in all things paranormal.

371
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:16,000
And Winchester Mystery House is the greatest haunted place location there ever was.

372
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,000
I'm being sarcastic. It was it was it was definitely a lady.

373
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,000
It was definitely a lady. Just don't know who it was.

374
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:28,000
Genuinely, don't know who it was. But it's just weird. We had never noticed it before.

375
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:33,000
And then it was that creepy moment when a four year old said, oh, yes, that is not wild.

376
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,000
I want to ask you about that later.

377
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:41,000
But first, Sarah said, love you in the Ghostbusters video made by Dylan Jones. Back off, man.

378
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,000
Parapsychologist. That's exactly. Yeah. Do check that out.

379
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,000
Dylan, Dylan Jones, there's a couple of documentaries.

380
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:58,000
Dylan Jones did a documentary where he interviewed a couple of parapsychologists about why they got into parapsychology to mark the release of Ghostbusters Afterlife.

381
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:03,000
I think it was it was kind of a special release that he was commissioned to do this documentary.

382
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,000
And yeah, I'm one of them. He interviews me about Dr.

383
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:12,000
Venkman and Ghostbusters and all of that. That is so cool.

384
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,000
Shelly actually asked a couple of good questions.

385
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:23,000
She said, as a parapsychologist, you think that spirits, energy, ghosts will ever be scientifically proven in any way.

386
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:30,000
After all that you have experienced, are you less of a skeptic or just still the same you were when you first started?

387
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:38,000
That's a brilliant question. I'm going to flip that question on its head and say, first of all, first of all, no.

388
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:50,000
As in, I don't think they'll ever be scientifically proven, but I'm going to flip it on its head and say, you know, are there parts of it that will be disproven?

389
00:41:50,000 --> 00:42:03,000
As in, as in as scientists. And let's be honest now, I've done a lot of research on on the environment, looking at electromagnetic fields, humidity, temperature, air pressure,

390
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:10,000
infrasound, all of these sorts of things, all these environmental variables, but also the psychological side.

391
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:20,000
At the moment, really, as a science, we're in a place where we can reliably say, you know what, there's good alternative explanations for what's going on.

392
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:25,000
But there isn't one explanation that can explain it all.

393
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:32,000
You presented with particular ghostly accounts and you can maybe explain some of it away using this particular explanation.

394
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,000
You get presented with a different account. You have to give it a different explanation.

395
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:42,000
But fundamentally, as a science, we're still in that position of going, you know what?

396
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,000
Science can't explain yet what ghosts are.

397
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:56,000
You know, if anything, what we should be doing as parapsychologists is battling with mainstream science because mainstream science, a lot of mainstream scientists will turn around and go, you know what?

398
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,000
People that see ghosts, it's either fraud or they're hallucinating.

399
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,000
And to be honest, that's just complete rubbish. That is complete rubbish.

400
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:15,000
We know thousands upon thousands of thousands of people are having these experiences worldwide from loads of different backgrounds, educational backgrounds, gender, race, work, age, you name it.

401
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:21,000
And they're not all hallucinating and they're not all faking it and saying, oh, you know, just joking around.

402
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,000
There's something else going on.

403
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:33,000
We've got to accept the fact people are having these experiences and people a lot of the time are genuinely moved by these experience and even sometimes traumatized.

404
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,000
So they're having these real experiences.

405
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:40,000
And I think we just need to do more to understand exactly what's going on.

406
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:49,000
And that's why it's a lovely question, Shelley, because ultimately, will science ever prove that ghosts will exist?

407
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:50,000
No, I don't think they will.

408
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:56,000
I think the proof of such things is your own, is personal encounters.

409
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:02,000
When people talk about having a ghostly encounter and they explain it to me and they say, well, what do you think?

410
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:06,000
I say, well, it could be this, it could be that, it could be this, it could be that sort of thing.

411
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:11,000
But you know what? The moment's gone. You had that experience.

412
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:15,000
I wasn't there when you had the experience. I wasn't there.

413
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,000
So all I can do is offer alternative explanations.

414
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:22,000
If you then still walk away and go, no, actually, I think it was genuinely a ghost.

415
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,000
Nothing I can say about that. It's your own experience.

416
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,000
And I think that's where the best proof comes from.

417
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,000
It's your own personal experience.

418
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,000
And it can be subjective as a new experience and feel it.

419
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:45,000
Or as I know, in terms of your investigations, it can also be a personal experience, but something that you witness as in the use of a gadget or a ghost box or something to get communication.

420
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:52,000
Yeah, it's a great question. And the last part was, am I less less of a skeptic?

421
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:56,000
Hmm. Which is a really good question.

422
00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:00,000
I would say, no, I'm not less of a skeptic.

423
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,000
In fact, I would say I'm more skeptical.

424
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:08,000
But actually, what I've become is more sympathetic and empathic towards people.

425
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,000
So I've always been sympathetic and was a nice guy.

426
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:20,000
But 20, 30 years ago, when people tell me their experiences, I would already be thinking about alternative explanations.

427
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:30,000
But now, having been through hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of locations and investigations, I've witnessed people having what they feel like a genuine experiences.

428
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,000
And I'm sympathetic to that.

429
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:44,000
I don't ever want to dismiss people's experiences as being somewhat some scientific explanation because people are genuinely moved by the experience.

430
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,000
And I think that's really the best answer for Shelley's.

431
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:55,000
I haven't necessarily become less skeptical, but I've become more sympathetic that people are having these experiences, if that makes sense.

432
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:56,000
Absolutely.

433
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:03,000
And I think it's great to have that on your team because my team that I have is only a small team.

434
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:08,000
And my mother-in-law is actually on the team and she's my skeptic.

435
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,000
She believes in it.

436
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,000
She believes 100 percent in the paranormal.

437
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:21,000
But unless someone walks up to her face and goes, hello, then, you know, I mean, she's one of these ones.

438
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:26,000
It has to be. It's never going to be like you say, scientifically proven.

439
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:37,000
But if someone is filming and one appears in front of them and walks away or you can you can stand there and say, right, that is real.

440
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,000
That just happened.

441
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:45,000
I think with a lot of people, not just her, but with a lot of people, this is what it's going to take for them.

442
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:52,000
Yeah, it's not going to take an experiment where you use a thermal imaging camera and say, right, well, there's a different color there.

443
00:46:52,000 --> 00:47:01,000
There's something, you know, it's all blue, but there's a heat signature in there or it's not going to take a K2 moving from green to red and stuff like that.

444
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:07,000
There's a lot of people out there that it's going to literally take a ghost to basically walk up and slap them in the face.

445
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,000
Yeah. Yeah.

446
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:15,000
I think you're absolutely right. But can I just say I've been involved in research in the paranormal since a young boy.

447
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,000
So we're talking almost 40 years now.

448
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,000
And I've encountered some very weird and wonderful things.

449
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:26,000
I've never heard of a paranormal investigative team with a mother in law on it.

450
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:31,000
I was just about to say that is truly the first.

451
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:35,000
Yeah, that's truly unique. Right. Isn't that my hat's off to you, Robin.

452
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:39,000
That's brilliant. It's crazy. I totally get it.

453
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:43,000
I love it. You know, they're really on. I'm an Irish man living in England.

454
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,000
So I've got to have something weird about it. Haven't I? True.

455
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:51,000
You've got to give it the Irish.

456
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:56,000
So I tell you what, man, I'm about to just sign off and let Shelley just start asking.

457
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,000
I come put her on and start asking questions because she's got some great, great questions.

458
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:06,000
I'm not going to lie. But I want to kind of move this one because this is kind of a question that I had as well.

459
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:12,000
But from all of your work over the years, what is your perspective on what's going on in this field?

460
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:18,000
If you can enlighten us to what your perspective is on this and your opinion on this from your research.

461
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,000
And what is some things that have been unexplainable to you that you just have it?

462
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,000
It's a head scratching moments like we were talking about earlier.

463
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:30,000
Brilliant. I mean, there's a lot in there, Shelley, in terms of my perspective.

464
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:35,000
So there's my perspective on ghost hunting and kind of the ghost hunting field.

465
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:46,000
But also, if you look, I make my research publicly available so people can click on it's called a research research gate page.

466
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:51,000
And people can click on that and they can find my academic articles there.

467
00:48:51,000 --> 00:49:01,000
And recently I published an article with a number of other researchers looking at environmental explanations for ghostly experiences

468
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:09,000
and basically looking at the last 20 or so years of research that's been conducted into things like electromagnetic fields,

469
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:16,000
infrasound, humidity, you name it, any of the environmental explanations we normally put forward.

470
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:26,000
And even though we went into it in great depth, what we actually found was that the research is just not there for us to say hand on heart.

471
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:32,000
You know what? Some of these environmental explanations are good suspects for what's going on. The research isn't there.

472
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:38,000
We have to be as skeptical about some of the environmental explanations as we are about the ghost ghostly experiences.

473
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:47,000
So that's one perspective is I'm truly skeptical in the sense of the word of being open minded, open minded, but questioning.

474
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:52,000
So I'll even be open minded and questioning the skeptical side of things as well.

475
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:57,000
So I'm happy to do that. So that's kind of the perspective side of things.

476
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:01,000
Shelly was also asking about my experience.

477
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:06,000
So you said at the beginning, AJ, in terms of how I got into all of this.

478
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,000
Well, of course, what I didn't say is I have I do have two hats.

479
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:17,000
I have a parapsychologist hat, which is my scientific research, which I do at Buckinghamshire New University, where I'm based.

480
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,000
I publish. I write books.

481
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:27,000
You know, people can see my research. But then I also have a hat, which is a ghost hunter hat where I'm still thinking like a parapsychologist.

482
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:32,000
But I'm a ghost hunter like yourselves. I'll go out and investigate whether it's with TV or not.

483
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:41,000
I just love investigating and and being in those situations has put me into a couple of head scratching moments.

484
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:46,000
And I think that's the best way of describing it. People would say, I hear and you're being noncommittal.

485
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:54,000
But no, actually, when you think about all of the research and all of the training I've had for me to say that there have been head scratching moments is quite something.

486
00:50:54,000 --> 00:51:06,000
One of them was at an old abandoned nightclub in the northwest of England, around the Liverpool area, Merseyside area.

487
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:11,000
And in this particular nightclub, a number of staff had reported phenomena happening.

488
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:18,000
And the trigger was them having a seance in the middle of the nightclub when it all closed down and things started happening.

489
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:29,000
Fire exit doors opened their own accord, a shadow walked across that somebody saw and investigated it over over a significant period of time.

490
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:40,000
And there was a local group, Parascience, as well, that investigated it actually for a couple of years, you know, kind of strictly almost weekly basis gathering data, which is a fantastic way of doing things.

491
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:51,000
They invited me along. And on this particular night, the staff were there that were there on the original first night when the seance happened.

492
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:59,000
And they floated the idea of doing the seance again, kind of replicating it so we could see where people sat, all of that sort of stuff.

493
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:03,000
They sat down and they did the science. And I was filming with a thermal imager.

494
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:08,000
So it wasn't filmed for a TV show, but I was filming with a thermal imager just to look at relative temperature.

495
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:14,000
I always set it to black and white so that if there's any drop in temperature, you're seeing it in green.

496
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:18,000
So instantly you can tell. And I was filming a black and white.

497
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:24,000
And after about 20, 30 minutes, people sat around the table went, I feel it doesn't feel like there's anything there.

498
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:30,000
You know, maybe it's just not the right time. And I said, well, look, carry on for another five, 10 minutes.

499
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:34,000
You never know. It's a unique opportunity that you're all here.

500
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:41,000
What I didn't tell them was that out the corners of the screen, it was like a green fog that was approaching the table.

501
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:46,000
But it was this obviously drop in temperature, but it was kind of coming across the floor towards the seance.

502
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:50,000
And I was looking at it going, well, there's a breeze of some sort that's approaching.

503
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,000
I said, just give it five, 10 minutes to see what happens.

504
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:57,000
After a few minutes, they said, oh, it feels like the energy is building up.

505
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,000
It feels like there's somebody here and we're getting in contact with somebody.

506
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:05,000
And as they were saying it, this kind of weird green fog was approaching

507
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:11,000
and kind of wrapped itself around the seance table and just hung there, hung there for about 20 minutes

508
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:17,000
whilst they were doing the seance. And then at some point somebody said, oh, it feels like the atmosphere is changing now.

509
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:22,000
It feels like, you know, there's nothing really here. And they were saying it as the fog just went.

510
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,000
I just disappeared. And it's a head scratching moment.

511
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:30,000
And I thought both validations is amazing. Exactly.

512
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,000
So there was that. And then the other one was an old Second World War

513
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:39,000
German bunker on the island of Guernsey that I investigated with my wife.

514
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:43,000
And first of all, we went there just alone with keys to it.

515
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:49,000
We locked ourselves in and she was sat in an outside part because she was a little bit freaked out by it.

516
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:54,000
An outside part. I went in with a camera kind of doing a recce and walking around

517
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:59,000
a huge kind of network of corridors, dark corridors, pitch black.

518
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:04,000
And at some point I hear her call out. I hear her say, Kieran, Kieran, Kieran.

519
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:09,000
And then I hear it escalating to a shout. So I ran back to where she was.

520
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:14,000
And bear in mind, it took about five minutes or so to run back to where she was

521
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:19,000
because of this network of corridors in the pitch black. When I got there, she was white as a sheet.

522
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:26,000
She said she'd been sat down outside, but within the fenced area, and she heard footsteps approaching her.

523
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:32,000
Wow. She said, Kieran, is that you? The footsteps stopped, shuffled.

524
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:36,000
And she said, Kieran, and looked around the corridor to where the footsteps were.

525
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:40,000
And there was nobody there. And that's when she screamed out and called out.

526
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:44,000
And it took me five minutes to then get back to where she was.

527
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:52,000
And it's one of those moments where you just go, I didn't have the experience, but I know there's nobody in here because we had the keys to it.

528
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:56,000
There's no way of getting into a second World War bunker. You just can't do it.

529
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,000
You know, this place was completely locked down.

530
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:04,000
And yet she heard it to the extent where she thought it was me approaching it.

531
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:10,000
So, you know, just one of those things. We end up investigating it ourselves with a group and filming it

532
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:17,000
and putting it on YouTube because we were so fascinated by this location, such a creepy location.

533
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:24,000
So there you go. There's a couple of head scratching moments amongst the hundreds and hundreds of investigations.

534
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,000
So, yeah, I'm grateful for the question, Shelley.

535
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,000
I know we're coming almost to the end. We got like about five minutes left.

536
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:34,000
First thing I want to say is Ella Jase, you've asked someone, please view this video.

537
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,000
The voice says, are you safe? Whatever you captured, if you'd like.

538
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:43,000
So, Mr. O'Keefe, I don't know if you're that too busy. I could send it to you. Whatever.

539
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,000
But I can pass it on to others. Yeah, absolutely.

540
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:54,000
So, Ella, email us the thing at talking with the source at Gmail dot com and we'll take a look at it.

541
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:58,000
We'll send it to Karen as well. And he could send it out to some people as well.

542
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,000
And we can all get back to you.

543
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:04,000
That's so great that you do that for us, Karen, as well. And take a look at it as well.

544
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:09,000
So thank you so much. First thing I want to say is Matt from Paranormal Consultant,

545
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:15,000
one of our brothers on the P3 program and a global ghost on everything, says what's up to you and everybody.

546
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:21,000
And also Doofus Davis, he just happened to stumble upon this. He says, hi, Karen. He loves you.

547
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:25,000
So I absolutely love that name, by the way, Doofus Davis. I mean, you can't believe it.

548
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:27,000
Brilliant name. I love it.

549
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,000
I thought it was you and your allure of kind, AJ.

550
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:35,000
I know, right? That's what I thought, too. But so one last question from the viewers real quick.

551
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:41,000
And then I want to just ask you one quick question, if you could just answer it for the beginners

552
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:45,000
and people even that are been in this field for a while like myself.

553
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:50,000
So the first question or last question from the viewer I wanted to ask before we let you go is question for all you.

554
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:58,000
Really, do you believe that Ouija boards actually clear up spirits or anything else?

555
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:04,000
And all my answers have been quite skeptical so far, as in open minded.

556
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:09,000
You can see that I'm not the real cynic that I might be painted as being.

557
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:13,000
But actually, with this, I'm more cynical with Ouija boards.

558
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:20,000
And there's a number of different reasons. So Ouija boards, when they're originally developed, if you look back,

559
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:27,000
you know, to about 100 years ago within psychical, what's called psychic research in the UK and even in the U.S.

560
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:35,000
investigators then were using Ouija boards to tap into the subconscious of people sitting around the table.

561
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:42,000
They genuinely used it as a tool, recognizing there might be stuff in there that you have genuinely forgotten.

562
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:46,000
And the Ouija board is a way of bringing that information out of your subconscious.

563
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:55,000
So nothing paranormal, but a useful, almost almost hypnotic tool to bring that information out.

564
00:57:55,000 --> 00:58:02,000
So that's the first part that kind of raises the skeptical side of what I've done, but also on Most Haunted.

565
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:09,000
You know, I've done it before with lots of other groups, but on Most Haunted, we did an investigation of a haunted mills,

566
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:19,000
this huge building in, I think it was Yorkshire, where they did a seance and they came up with this incredibly accurate information on the Ouija board.

567
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:24,000
All of them sat around the Ouija board. And then they said, Kieran, you must be impressed with this.

568
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:28,000
And I said, well, let me just, you know, tackle this point.

569
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:32,000
Do you have to be touching the board and the planchette for this to work?

570
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:36,000
Well, we have to be touching the planchette, I was told. OK, but you have to see the board.

571
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:40,000
Well, no, we don't, because it's the spirits using the planchette.

572
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:45,000
And so I said, well, let me blindfold you and then do it again and I'll be impressed.

573
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:50,000
And they said, OK, yeah, that's fine. So we blindfolded the almost haunted crew that was sitting around the seance table.

574
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:55,000
They did it again. I said, we're going to ask the same questions and we're going to keep the answers.

575
00:58:55,000 --> 00:59:00,000
So ask exactly the same questions. The movement was all exactly the same.

576
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:06,000
And they said, was it accurate? And I said, well, it looked as though you were getting exactly the same answers to what you got before.

577
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:15,000
And yet we were blindfolded, which is amazing. Were it not for the fact that when you were blindfolded, I turned the Ouija board around.

578
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,000
So all the answers were just complete rubbish.

579
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:23,000
Wow. Effectively, you have to be seeing the Ouija board to get the messages out.

580
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:28,000
And because of that, because of the contact with the planchette. Yeah, I'm very, very skeptical.

581
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:37,000
You know, there's this huge history that Sarah's pointed out, going back to the Chinese and even, you know, other Oracle devices that are using an ancient Greece as well.

582
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:46,000
So it's an amazing history to it. I actually ended up going to university at Washington College, the Eastern Shore,

583
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:57,000
in the Chesapeake Bay area, in a town called Chester Town, where the original developer of the Ouija board, the Parker Brothers Ouija board, lived.

584
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:05,000
By pure coincidence, I had no idea that was the case before I went to the university. But yeah, fascinated by it, but skeptical.

585
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:11,000
Absolutely. So I mean, so you basically said in the beginning that would be that was basically used as a psychological tool.

586
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,000
That's the same thing that Shelley was asking.

587
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:21,000
There's another there's another caveat, though. People often say to me, you know, would you advise using a Ouija board?

588
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:32,000
And it might seem counter to what I believe about Ouija boards. But I often say, no, don't use a Ouija board, because if you believe that the Ouija board is contacting spirit

589
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:40,000
or you believe that by doing it, it's a doorway to something negative, then you using it could mean that things that happen to you afterwards,

590
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:45,000
you attribute to that spirit or to the open doorway and letting bad things in.

591
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:54,000
So therefore, even though I don't believe it is doing that, if you believe it is, I wouldn't advise using it if you're genuinely scared by it.

592
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,000
Why would I? That wouldn't be I wouldn't be ethical, then, would it?

593
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:06,000
Yeah, you see, one thing that I'll say, and AJ knows this, Kieran, I will not I never have done and I never will use one.

594
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:14,000
But they're the one tool in this whole field. And I've I've used many, many tools.

595
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:29,000
I even I even work with one. But I don't believe and I tell you the main reason, because if you put your finger on the planchette, right?

596
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:37,000
Yeah. And everybody has their fingers on it. You're putting supposedly putting energy into the planchette.

597
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:49,000
Yes. Right. Yeah. So then. When that planchette is moving, if everybody at the same time was to lift their fingers off, it would stop.

598
01:01:49,000 --> 01:02:01,000
Now, surely there should be enough energy in that to carry on, maybe not for long, but maybe the Finnish spelling of the name or I don't know whether I'm right or not.

599
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:11,000
That's my my view of it. Well, there was some research was done back in the 1850s by Faraday, of all people, the scientists who showed that it was micromotor muscular movement.

600
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:15,000
And basically what that is, is it's subconscious movement.

601
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:24,000
So if you're touching the planchette, the best way to illustrate it is if you're touching the planchette and you're saying, what's the name of the spirit here?

602
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:30,000
And it goes to J and then O and then H.

603
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:38,000
Everybody knows the next letter is going to be N. We know that your brain knows that because it's been exposed to that name before.

604
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:47,000
Because of that, your brain communicates with the muscles in your arm, your wrist and your fingers to move that planchette to N.

605
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:50,000
But the brain does that by passing your consciousness.

606
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:56,000
So it does that without you realizing because it's an automatic process.

607
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,000
So therefore, when you ask people, did you move it?

608
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:06,000
People would genuinely go, no, of course I didn't, because they genuinely feel as though they didn't move it.

609
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:13,000
But because your brain is bypassing your consciousness of it and is basically communicating with the finger and going, no, move it to N.

610
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:19,000
Of course it's going to be N. But now you've got everybody around the table and they're all doing the same thing.

611
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,000
So they all feel like it's not moving.

612
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:29,000
And that's why it's such an effective tool, because you can be sitting around the table doing that and all feel like we're not moving it.

613
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:33,000
We're genuinely not moving it. It almost feels like it's taking itself.

614
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,000
Just fantastic. Yeah, no, definitely.

615
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,000
Well, Karen, you know, I know you have to get out of here.

616
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:44,000
We were going to have you on definitely again, whatever you're free in the next few weeks or whatever you'd like to come back out.

617
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:47,000
We would love to continue this conversation.

618
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:50,000
I'll actually leave my question for the next time.

619
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:53,000
And real quick, Sarah, I'm sure you were just answering that.

620
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,000
But have you ever been to the Paranormal Research Center in Hinckley yet?

621
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:59,000
No, I haven't yet. But I do know the owner.

622
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:04,000
I've spoken to Paul Stevenson at Haunted magazine, who I know has been there many, many times.

623
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:08,000
So I've had an open invitation. So at some point I'll make it. Awesome.

624
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:19,000
Well, before you go, can you just give all of us investigators some tips or a tip that we could use in the field with us to be more effective and be more thorough in what we're doing?

625
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:22,000
If you could. I don't know if you have any.

626
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:26,000
Yeah, it's very tough because everybody has different ways of ghost hunting.

627
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:32,000
The only thing I would say is two quick tips is read. So one is read.

628
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,000
I mean, there's so much stuff out there. There are guidelines.

629
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:49,000
There's some early research by Harry Price, the ghost hunters in the UK and some of the stuff he did and the way he approached investigations, the Society for Psychological Research based in London and also the Ghost Club.

630
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:56,000
They publish various guidelines and how to do this. And so do read and get familiar with all that stuff.

631
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:01,000
In terms of a personal tip, the only thing I would say is two things.

632
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:11,000
Number one, temperature. Find a good way of recording temperature, because it's one of those things that we we report a lot when we're having these ghostly experiences.

633
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:27,000
And if you've got some way of capturing temperature effectively, you can therefore have that kind of double validation that you mentioned earlier, which is that you've got somebody reporting there's a cold spot, but you're measuring it accurately.

634
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:32,000
And you can do that quite cheaply. You know, there are various thermometers you can use to measure that cold spot.

635
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:42,000
But also it's useful to measure the temperature of people, because if they are also reporting a drop in temperature, you've got that. So that's the thing I would say.

636
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:58,000
And the last thing is, is a is a shout out to parapsychologists as well as you guys, which is I'm incredibly grateful to the two of you for me coming on to your show, because I think I think we should talk more.

637
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:07,000
And I say you two and me, but also all ghost hunters out there, parapsychologists who are doing the science stuff, you know, stuck in our ivory towers.

638
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:12,000
We don't tend to get out into the field and I'm an exception, but we publish all of the stuff, which is interesting.

639
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:18,000
But also we've got so much to learn from you guys in terms of what you do out in the field.

640
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:26,000
So if anything, this is kind of a last speech on my soapbox to say, yeah, let's let's talk more.

641
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:32,000
Absolutely. Absolutely. We'll have you on many times if you want. Absolutely.

642
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:40,000
You can be our our resident, our resident. Join the podcast. You know what I'm saying? Residents get to.

643
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:51,000
Yeah, I love it. I love it. If you want to you tell us when you're free, if you want to come on once a month or something like that, that's that's totally fine. Amazing.

644
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:56,000
Yeah, there's so much we can learn and stuff we could show to and have your opinion on it because we're all we know.

645
01:06:56,000 --> 01:07:01,000
I think it's so important that nowadays we were so conflicted in this world, like someone's opinion.

646
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:18,000
And on this show, we're all about someone's opinion and someone's research and anything like that, because I believe even if it's a beginner, like me and Robin both agree with, we can learn and further our research by learning from either experiences or stuff that, you know, you have learned through your research and studies.

647
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:26,000
And I just think working together like that instead of making this into such a competition that people are making it into nowadays, especially with YouTube and everything.

648
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:29,000
I just think there's so much we can learn from each other working together.

649
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:41,000
Absolutely. We're all citizen scientists. At the end of the day, we're all going out there doing science, really observing, you know, recording, using gadgets or whatever approach we're doing.

650
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:46,000
There's an observational aspect to it, which is always a scientific starting point.

651
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,000
Yeah, absolutely.

652
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:56,000
Kieran, before you go, Don again said, obviously, don't forget to check out your online amazing programs in parapsychology.

653
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:57,000
Thanks, Don.

654
01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:06,000
Where they can find those, please. And also that link below, the Linktree, if they want to look it down there, please go to Kieran down there and tell them that we sent you.

655
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:09,000
But go ahead, Kieran. Shout out where they can find those programs.

656
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:12,000
And anything else as well, Kieran, websites or anything.

657
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:23,000
Yeah, definitely. So if you go to that Linktree link there, you'll find a link to my new book that came out this week, actually, Ghosted, which is about ghost research.

658
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:34,000
So that came out this week. You've got a link on that Linktree website to my courses, the School of Parapsychology.equid.com.

659
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:43,000
So it's an online parapsychology school. But also there's a page on the Linktree for my research articles as well. But yeah, any of that.

660
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:49,000
And I'm grateful to Don, who's a current student of the school, doing one of the parapsychology courses.

661
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:55,000
But there's courses on demonology, poltergeist, exorcism, possession, ghost hunting, you name it.

662
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,000
Any of those courses, too. So yeah, very cool.

663
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,000
Well, you guys heard it first. I'm talking with the source.

664
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:06,000
Kieran, thank you so much for coming on again. We can't wait to have you on again. So we'll be in contact through email.

665
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:14,000
Ella Jates, we're going to obviously get back to you. We'll also send it to Kieran after reviewing it, see what he thinks of people that he could send it to.

666
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:21,000
And I'm sure he'll be reaching out personally. If he's too busy, we'll just reach out through our email at talkingwiththesource.gmail.com.

667
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:24,000
But Kieran, thank you so much, man. Honestly, so much.

668
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:28,000
Honestly, I can't thank you enough. And I apologize again. It took so long.

669
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:33,000
Not at all. Thank you very much. We've done it. That's the main thing. We've started.

670
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:37,000
We've started. But we're nowhere near finished.

671
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:41,000
Exactly. There's so much more to talk about. So thank you, AJ. Thank you, Robin.

672
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,000
Not a problem. Thank you all for all the questions.

673
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:50,000
Thank you, everybody. Thank you. See you soon. Bye bye.

674
01:09:50,000 --> 01:10:00,000
OK, well, oh, my gosh, that was you know, I can't believe the hour went by so quick, man. Like I wanted to keep going because Shelley had some awesome questions that like it didn't even cross my mind.

675
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:06,000
I still have questions I didn't even ask. You have questions that you didn't even really get to ask because we talked about.

676
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:10,000
I could talk to him all night. I could literally talk to that guy all night.

677
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:22,000
You know, and it's funny because a lot of thank you, Don, as well. Don says thank you all. Thank you, Don, for coming on and, you know, watching us watching this with us and participating.

678
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:32,000
That's what we truly like. Also, Sarah, to our sister, you love that guys. What an awesome podcast. Thank you so much, Sarah. We appreciate you.

679
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:41,000
And Shelley, thank you. Please feel free to come back anytime we have. We'll be having on more people. We'll be having Dave Schrader on when his new show comes on.

680
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:48,000
Hopefully we're also having Patty Negri on again. We're going to be having a lot of different guests as well as local on the globe. Yes.

681
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:53,000
And Karen will be on 100 percent multiple times again. And I learned so much.

682
01:10:53,000 --> 01:11:07,000
I mean, you know what? Whether the person scientific or completely skeptical, like I said to Karen and I said to you, you know, we can learn so much and further our research by having someone like that question our stuff and further it.

683
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:14,000
You know, so you know what? Right. I'm going to say this now on camera and I'm not I'm not.

684
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:20,000
No, I'm not. I'm being I'm being 100 percent serious.

685
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:23,000
OK, it's not normal for me.

686
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:25,000
Is.

687
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:34,000
I love that guy. Right. A lot of people always used to question is most haunted real or is most haunted fake.

688
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:43,000
Now, I grew up watching it. Right. And I loved it. And I believed it. But I'm going to tell you now.

689
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:54,000
If that gentleman there that was just been on Dr. Karen O'Keefe, if he has associated himself with that, then as far as I'm concerned, it's real.

690
01:11:54,000 --> 01:12:04,000
No, I mean, he told you straight out. Yeah. Yeah. It's that he is the most genuine guy you will in this field you will ever meet.

691
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:13,000
Yeah. No, he's been so, like, helpful with all the things we've been dealing with and you've been dealing with emergency wise and rescheduling.

692
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:18,000
I mean, for him being so busy to come on two days after, I mean, it's just he's just awesome.

693
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:23,000
I mean, we got to talk to him a little bit before this. And you know what? I just told you, I can't wait to have my guy, man.

694
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:31,000
So, you know, I'm not only that, but when I started when I joined up with you on this and I started booking in guests,

695
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:37,000
he was always one. And, you know, I've been emailing him, trying to get a hold of him. Absolutely.

696
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:47,000
So honestly, that guy is amazing. And, you know, whoever he goes to work for, they'll only flourish.

697
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:51,000
Yeah, no, I totally agree. Totally agree.

698
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:55,000
Doofus, I want to say I apologize. You did say she and I totally apologize about that.

699
01:12:55,000 --> 01:13:01,000
I can't see on YouTube a picture, so we don't know exactly who it is except for Facebook.

700
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:06,000
I don't know why that is. So I very do apologize. I did not mean any disrespect by that.

701
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:11,000
And yes, there I remember Ghostwatch. I was actually just I don't he doesn't remember it.

702
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:15,000
But yeah, it scared scared me. And I just watched it a couple of months ago.

703
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:18,000
But, you know, we just appreciate everybody watching.

704
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:22,000
We want all of our viewers to get involved, ask questions like you've seen.

705
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:26,000
It's very important to us because if we have somebody on like Patty Negri or, you know,

706
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:32,000
Zach Baggins or anything like anyone who's in that field like Kieran or someone who's been on a TV show

707
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:35,000
and obviously not everyone gets to have a conversation with those people.

708
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:40,000
And there's so many questions that people like Shelly can ask that, like I said, further our research

709
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:44,000
and also Kieran's. So please, you know, join us every week.

710
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:51,000
We have another show that's going to be coming up Saturday with Kevin Williams of Red Ridge Paranormal.

711
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:56,000
So please join us on Saturday. I'm not too sure exactly the time I'd have to look at my notes,

712
01:13:56,000 --> 01:14:03,000
but just go on our social medias on Talking with the Source on Facebook, Twitter, also YouTube.

713
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:07,000
We just started putting our stuff on YouTube. But if you want to watch all older episodes,

714
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:11,000
you can go right on our Facebook. We have everything from even before this was named

715
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:15,000
Talking with the Source before this really became a serious podcast.

716
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:22,000
But again, thank you guys so much and to Dr. Kieran O'Keefe. Absolutely.

717
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:32,000
And also for everybody watching as well, if you ever want to have a little bit of the male AJ dressed as a woman,

718
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:39,000
will you just shout out the street corner on? Listen, don't make me don't make me put that hat picture out of you.

719
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:43,000
If you guys watch this, basically what you're going to see is me and him constantly making fun of each other.

720
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:50,000
It's all in fun and games. So don't mind us. We get a little stupid sometimes, but it's all in fun and games.

721
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:55,000
Yeah, don't you see I pointed out myself. Damn it. Exactly. I forgot it was reversed.

722
01:14:55,000 --> 01:15:00,000
I forgot it was reversed. But anyway, guys, this has been another episode of Talking with the Source.

723
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:05,000
We're going to show a couple of videos before we end this completely. But thank you guys so much again.

724
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:12,000
I'm AJ from Coventry Circle Paranormal. And you never give a shout out to our big friends, Mr.

725
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:21,000
and Mrs. AAP from AAP's Variety Channel. Check them out. As far as I'm aware, they're actually live now on YouTube.

726
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:23,000
Check them out.

727
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:26,000
You guys have YouTube, anything, please head over to Mr.

728
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:30,000
and Mrs. AAP Variety Channel is what it's called on YouTube.

729
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:36,000
They allow you to share your channel. They help pollinate your channel, share it out to thousands of people.

730
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:38,000
Tell them Robin and AJ send you.

731
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:44,000
I know. Absolutely. So appreciate you guys so much and we will definitely be seeing you on Saturday.

732
01:15:44,000 --> 01:16:12,000
So talk to you guys soon. Bye bye.

733
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:58,000
Thank you.

734
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:42,000
Thank you.

735
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:59,000
Thank you.

736
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:14,000
Thank you.

737
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:29,000
Thank you.

738
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:44,000
Thank you.

739
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:59,000
Thank you.

740
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:14,000
Thank you.