WEBVTT

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What's going on, everybody? This is AJ Capasso

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here. We're talking with the source. I'm here

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with my beautiful girlfriend, Tammy. Tammy, how

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are you? I'm doing great. Great. We had a great

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day today, didn't we? We did. We had a great

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couple of days. Yeah, we did. We did. You know,

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things are working out well. Everything is going

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great. I hope everyone at home is doing well.

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I hope everyone is doing great at home. And also

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any of our podcast listeners that listen on Spotify,

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I hope you guys are doing great at home as well.

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Today we have a special guest. We are super excited

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to have this guest on. It's been a while. We've

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been trying to get him on, but he's super busy

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all the time. So we understand completely. But

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listen, this is a legend in the field, a veteran.

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Very well -known person. His name is Joe Frank.

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Let me bring him forward. How are you, my friend?

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Hey, guys. How are you? Thanks for having me

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on. No, please. The honor is ours. Thank you

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for being on. Yeah, we've been trying to get

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together for months now. We started this back

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in October, I think. I know. A couple things

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come up, and I had to keep rescheduling. I'm

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glad we found out. No, hey, it's all right. But,

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hey, Joe, I wanted to first ask you the question

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that we ask everybody is to tell our followers

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that don't know about you a little bit about

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yourself, about your background, so that they

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can understand a little bit more about yourself

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and what you do. Well, I mean, I started in the

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paranormal field many, many years ago. I was

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18 years old. I was always interested in ghosts

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and things like that. I knew who Ed and Lorraine

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Warren were. I used to follow them through print

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media and radio and TV. We didn't have the internet

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back then. We're talking 1986. I graduated high

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school in May or June of that year. I think it

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was September of 86, I met the Warrens at one

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of their lectures. One of the first things Lorraine

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said to me when she first met me was, uh she

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says honey you know i'm reading your aura she

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was i can tell you were meant to do this work

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and she said would you like to come and work

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with us and be one of our students uh they had

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a handful of students at the time and uh we met

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we used to meet up at a place called holly manor

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in newtown i don't know if you're familiar with

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it but it's now i think the inn at newtown but

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back then it was holy manor and um it's like

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monday nights from like seven to nine um there's

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about half a dozen of us my girlfriend at the

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time who's now my wife of 33 years um yeah we've

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been together uh almost 40 years 39 years and

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that's awesome thank you thank you uh i don't

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know i've tried everything i could but she won't

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get rid of me i mean i love telling the story

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because it's such a wonderful story i have such

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a unique history um You know, that's unique to

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me, obviously, as we all have a history that

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are unique to ourselves. But Laurel had seen

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in the local newspaper that Ed and Lorraine were

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going to be lecturing in North Haven, Connecticut,

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which is one town over from where I live. Yeah,

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that's where I grew up. Oh, North Haven? Really?

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Yeah, yeah. I grew up there from 16 until I graduated

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high school. And then I lived there until I was

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like about 30 years old. And I'm 36 now, so.

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Oh, you're just a baby. Yeah. I'm an old man

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now. I'm a veteran. People keep saying that,

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though. I tell you, I don't feel it. You see

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all the gray hair I'm getting. Well, I was a

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teenager. You still got some time. Laurel saw

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in the newspaper that the Warrens are going to

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be lecturing. So she was like, hey, instead of

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going to the movies tonight, why don't we go

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down there and see them speak? So that's how

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I started. I didn't start actually working cases

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right away, though. You know, we did some classes

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and, you know, we went on some excursions with

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Ed and Lorraine. But it was probably a couple

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of years before Ed let me go out on my own. I

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also doubled as security for them. I was a much

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bigger guy than I am today. And, you know, I

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used to go to the lectures. And, you know, sometimes

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you get people that have a little bit too much

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to drink. And I call it liquid courage. and these

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yeah they used to be some hecklers it wouldn't

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happen a lot it wasn't like you know every show

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but every once in a while you get somebody that

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would get out of hand and you know ed would just

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look at me and he's like hey kid you want to

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take care of this like okay so i just go up to

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him and be very polite and say look can you please

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you know uh keep it down you know um usually

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i didn't have to ask twice but um that was that

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was part of my training because going to the

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lectures and listening to them speak I got to

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learn a lot about their history and a lot of

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history of their cases. A lot of their more iconic

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cases that you may have heard about, like Amityville

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and the Harrisville haunting, which you guys

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probably know as the Conjuring House. That was

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one of their cases back then. The Annabelle Dahl

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case and the devil in Connecticut, the haunting

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in Connecticut. All these are more iconic cases

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that some of them. have gone in to have documentaries

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made about them on television and and obviously

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theatrical releases as well um very loosely based

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on the cases these once hollywood gets their

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talents into these stories they take a lot of

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liberties with them you know which boggles the

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mind to me because in my opinion in some of the

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things especially in what the cases i've been

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dealing with if you tell the real story the way

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it really happened it's far more terrifying than

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you know yeah but i've always wondered that yeah

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well you know hollywood i mean what's the end

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the end goal is to put butts in the seats and

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and money you know to to make money and i get

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all that but you know i've shied away from that

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my entire career because to me it's not about

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money this is a labor of love this is a vocation

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not an occupation for me you know yeah we don't

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we don't charge to help people my my you know

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my folks that i work with very closely um and

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there are a lot of them uh we do this to help

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people um where we make any money is through

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our lecture system when we're lecturing or uh

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going to if i get invited to um some of these

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um paracons and things like that i just came

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back um just about a month ago from megacon down

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in orlando i tell you down there that is the

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biggest comic -con it's not a paracon it's a

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comic -con but it's like the second largest in

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the country next to St. Louis. And then the third

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one is the Javits Center in New York. But it

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was an honor to be invited there. I've been invited

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there the last few years. And my good friend

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Bill Slevin, who lives down in Florida, coordinated

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all that. And they put he and I under the horror

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section. So they didn't have a paranormal section

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per se. They had a horror section. And they put

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us down on the main community floor. god i think

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it's a is a thursday through sunday event and

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by friday afternoon i lost my voice i think i

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had six or seven panels that i did throughout

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the weekend and i normally don't need a microphone

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when i speak but i i needed to use one there

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because uh talking to this room of you know a

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few hundred people um oh yeah exactly it's a

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great feeling i love to talk about what i do

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but what i love to do now is i love to educate

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And not only educate the general public, but

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I want to educate the next generation of researchers.

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Those people that are really serious about this

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work, not the people on YouTube that want to

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just go to old cemeteries and, you know, abandoned

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hospitals and things like that. I mean, that's

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great for entertainment and fun, but that's not

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what I do. You know, like I said, I have a very

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unique history. of how i've come up through the

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paranormal field through the years um there's

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not too many people that have my history with

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the warrens there are there are a few there's

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a good friends of mine like john zaffis and jimmy

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uh mr haunted jimmy petnino rick clark frank

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schiaffari you know good friends of mine i've

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known for many many years 30 almost 35 years

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and we all kind of came up together uh all learning

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working with uh with ed in the rain and learning

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from them and i've learned a lot on my own too

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i study you know a lot of stuff with the uh the

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catholic church catholic exorcists i'm involved

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with the uh the solomonic corner of saint michael

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the archangel with some good friends of mine

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like father ken torres and father bob bailey

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with the holy uh sword apostolate um you know

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we're all like a big massive team and uh i'm

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involved with wardruna which is a is a team of

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psychics and and and uh uh you know you know

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like social workers and therapists and psychologists

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so we're you know what do you have to do is in

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this work is you have to have the gift of discernment

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you know you got to discern between what is real

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or what's fantasy what's good and what's evil

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you know you don't want to just take in every

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stray that comes along somebody says i'm haunted

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or i need an exorcism or something like that

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it does it doesn't work that way you have to

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discern between what cases are real what may

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be um you know a form of psychosis or schizophrenia

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or some kind of other psychiatric disorder where

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someone thinks that they have a demonic entity

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attached to them now now given given that statement

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someone can have a mental illness and still have

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a demonic entity attached to them but it's very

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rare demonic activity is very rare i want to

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make sure your audience knows that it's very

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rare and uh possession full -blown possession

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is rarer still but it does exist you know um

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i wanted to ask well i wanted to ask for in your

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all the time that you've been doing this work

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was many years um what is the scariest thing

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that you've seen scariest yeah well there's there's

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been quite a few things that we've seen i bet

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one of my earlier cases i'll tell you about this

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one because this one is intriguing I was in a

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home that I was with Ed at the time and a couple

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other people. And Ed was doing what we called

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religious provocation. He was provoking, which

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is something that most people should not do.

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Taking a religious relic like a rosary or a blessed

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crucifix or holy water and commanding in the

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name of Jesus Christ for something to reveal

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itself or show itself. you know that's very dangerous

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that's that's something that we call divination

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you know uh you know we're using a ouija board

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and stuff like that religious provocation and

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uh i was um i was attacked myself i mean i was

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like 360 pounds you know i was a weightlifter

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back in the day i was never skinny it's still

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not but i was picked up and thrown i was thrown

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about 12 feet across the room i had uh soda bottle

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hit me in the face got my blood blood coming

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out of my nose you know these things are real

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and you know it's not something that people should

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be go out looking for uh it's very dangerous

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to be going into uh allegedly haunted places

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but you know it's dangerous to go in there and

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use this this divination or provocation methods

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you know just just for just for to get evidence

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You know for the thrill of it because if you

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do get an attachment It's very hard to get rid

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of them You know if you get some kind of attachment

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god forbid a demonic attachment now, you're you're

00:13:26.690 --> 00:13:28.590
you're kind of in deep trouble It's not something

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you just shit, you know wipe off you you know,

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so you need to be strong Emotionally and psychological

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but you also be not very strong spiritually when

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you do this work you know, so it's it's just

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you know i'm going into my education mode now

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because people need to know this and the the

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researchers out there there's a lot of good people

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doing good work and good research but then there's

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just as many people that are just doing it for

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the thrill of it and i don't see the fun in this

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i just don't see where it's this is fun to people

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i deal with um residential cases i don't do public

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really public investigations and things like

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that unless this is part of a a conference or

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something i'm doing and we do it for fun you

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know yeah but you got to be careful there as

00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:21.379
well um you know but we we help people and families

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frighten people um you know i've got a case now

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that just came in through the church outside

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of philadelphia that i'm working on it's i believe

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it's a case of demonic oppression um and the

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families you know families get some young children

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that are being um attacked and um It's something

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that we take very seriously. We're watching it

00:14:43.009 --> 00:14:46.590
closely. I have to be careful too. I've had some

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health problems of late I'm dealing with and

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been in and out of the hospital a couple times.

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If I'm not strong enough, I can't go. I was going

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to ask you something along those lines. When

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you're handling cases like this, how do you protect

00:15:06.129 --> 00:15:09.980
yourself? That's an excellent question, Tammy.

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People ask me all the time, what's the best protection?

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I said, the best protection is your faith. People

00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:18.480
are like, well, should I go out and buy a crucifix

00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:19.919
or holy water or something? I said, well, it

00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:24.679
doesn't mean anything. Those items are just inanimate

00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:27.320
objects. If you don't have the faith behind them,

00:15:28.100 --> 00:15:31.320
faith is believing in something that common sense

00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:33.580
tells you not to. I always say that to coin a

00:15:33.580 --> 00:15:35.720
phrase from the movie Miracle on 34th Street,

00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:38.720
but it's very true. You know, faith is believing

00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:41.000
in something you can't see or feel or touch.

00:15:41.379 --> 00:15:44.500
And if you have faith in those objects and you're

00:15:44.500 --> 00:15:48.919
very rooted in whatever faith you may have, whatever

00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:52.659
religion you subscribe to, then you should be

00:15:52.659 --> 00:15:55.419
safe. Otherwise, you can't just walk around with

00:15:55.419 --> 00:15:58.120
holy water and think that that's going to fight

00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:00.120
it. It's actually going to have the adverse effect

00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:02.240
if you don't have the faith in it. It's just

00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.820
going to, you know, these things just laugh at

00:16:04.820 --> 00:16:07.929
you. I mean, they eat me for lunch. you know

00:16:07.929 --> 00:16:11.950
it's funny that you said that because there was

00:16:11.950 --> 00:16:14.750
a time where we asked that question through a

00:16:14.750 --> 00:16:17.590
spirit box about crystals about people who use

00:16:17.590 --> 00:16:20.330
crystals and they actually it came to the box

00:16:20.330 --> 00:16:23.070
saying basically the thing that you just said

00:16:23.070 --> 00:16:25.789
you know like they're inanimate objects and basically

00:16:25.789 --> 00:16:28.990
your belief into them is what causes them to

00:16:28.990 --> 00:16:32.730
do what they're supposedly doing so like your

00:16:32.730 --> 00:16:35.210
belief and your intent is what's actually causing

00:16:36.269 --> 00:16:39.470
the effect of these inanimate objects that you

00:16:39.470 --> 00:16:43.450
put your faith into so like i i i kind of like

00:16:43.450 --> 00:16:45.570
i completely understand what you just said like

00:16:45.570 --> 00:16:49.809
completely it's all about free will and intention

00:16:49.809 --> 00:16:52.330
when you know when you think about it i was born

00:16:52.330 --> 00:16:54.289
and raised roman catholic the warrens were very

00:16:54.289 --> 00:16:57.870
catholic so i learned in the catholic way and

00:16:57.870 --> 00:16:59.610
i've studied you know i've done some studying

00:16:59.610 --> 00:17:01.929
under catholic exorcists and things like that

00:17:01.929 --> 00:17:05.579
so i i've learned about divination and exorcism

00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:08.359
and things like that i've assisted in exorcisms

00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:11.519
i'm not an exorcist you know but as a helper

00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:14.039
as you know and that's basically someone that

00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:17.759
you know stands by and and um you know if need

00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:20.180
be restraint physically restrains the afflicted

00:17:20.180 --> 00:17:22.380
person uh so that they don't hurt themselves

00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:26.119
or the exorcist who's performing the ritual um

00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:29.759
and you but you don't want to um you don't even

00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.160
want to make eye contact remember bishop mckenna

00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:35.160
used to say to us don't look at it you wouldn't

00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:37.859
say him or her he would say don't look at it

00:17:37.859 --> 00:17:39.400
because he was referring to the demon because

00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:44.000
once once he starts using the uh religious relics

00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:46.519
the holy water and and the obviously the words

00:17:46.519 --> 00:17:50.940
the prayers uh the demons will manifest and it

00:17:50.940 --> 00:17:53.420
can get pretty ugly and and it's it's pretty

00:17:53.420 --> 00:17:55.460
scary to see if you're not used to seeing something

00:17:55.460 --> 00:17:59.420
like that it's it's very scary to see People's

00:17:59.420 --> 00:18:02.339
eyes change color. I've seen eyes turn into like

00:18:02.339 --> 00:18:06.440
serpent's eyes. They've turned green and their

00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:10.700
body contorts. They'll speak in different languages

00:18:10.700 --> 00:18:13.079
that the person couldn't possibly know. They'll

00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:15.359
have superhuman strength. I mean, throw me across

00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:18.019
the room like I'm a rag doll, you know, things

00:18:18.019 --> 00:18:21.500
like that. And it's very scary when you're involved

00:18:21.500 --> 00:18:24.420
with these things. So our job would be to protect

00:18:24.420 --> 00:18:27.460
the person, protect, you know, the bishop and

00:18:27.460 --> 00:18:30.839
to pray. just to pray, you know, pray the, our

00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:33.759
father prayer to St. Michael, just, just to pray,

00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:37.440
but don't make eye contact. And Bishop McKenna

00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:39.440
used to say, don't look at it. Don't speak to

00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:41.539
it. If it says, if it looks at you and says something,

00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:44.299
don't acknowledge it. Just look away and continue

00:18:44.299 --> 00:18:47.700
to pray. And again, that stuff is, that stuff's

00:18:47.700 --> 00:18:49.859
very rare, but look at the world we live in.

00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:52.200
Look, what's going on around us. We have free

00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:56.430
will. And in my opinion, You know, God wants

00:18:56.430 --> 00:18:59.349
us to take that free will and choose him. Most

00:18:59.349 --> 00:19:01.650
people probably choose the other guy, you know,

00:19:01.650 --> 00:19:04.109
but God won't meddle in our free will. He allows

00:19:04.109 --> 00:19:07.650
things to happen for a reason. And, you know,

00:19:07.670 --> 00:19:09.009
a lot of people look around and say, why would

00:19:09.009 --> 00:19:11.289
God allow this? You know, it's a terrible tragedy,

00:19:11.369 --> 00:19:13.950
a car accident, a young child gets killed or

00:19:13.950 --> 00:19:16.410
murdered, God forbid. You know, people say, you

00:19:16.410 --> 00:19:18.609
know, that's where people really test their faith.

00:19:18.910 --> 00:19:21.509
Because like, why is it just God? Why would he

00:19:21.509 --> 00:19:23.970
let this happen? It's not up to us to question

00:19:23.970 --> 00:19:26.839
God. I mean, he has a plan for all of us. When

00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:30.240
people start messing with fortune telling and

00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.119
soothsaying and oracles and things like that,

00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:36.099
when you're trying to find out information about

00:19:36.099 --> 00:19:37.920
the future, that's where it can get dangerous.

00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:41.599
I usually ask my audience, I say, if you folks,

00:19:41.779 --> 00:19:44.240
anybody here, if you're given the opportunity

00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:46.859
to know the date, the time, and the manner of

00:19:46.859 --> 00:19:50.299
your own death, would you want to know it? Would

00:19:50.299 --> 00:19:52.079
you want to know when you were going to die and

00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:54.829
how you were going to die? Most people wouldn't.

00:19:54.829 --> 00:19:56.349
Every once in a while I get somebody who raises

00:19:56.349 --> 00:19:58.710
their hand, yeah, I'd kind of like to know. I'm

00:19:58.710 --> 00:20:01.349
like, okay, I respect that. But most people know

00:20:01.349 --> 00:20:05.089
because we're not meant to know that. I'd like

00:20:05.089 --> 00:20:08.650
to have the six lotto numbers for Monday, Tuesday

00:20:08.650 --> 00:20:11.829
nights drawing. But I'd also like to have a toilet

00:20:11.829 --> 00:20:13.750
made out of solid gold, but it's not in the cards,

00:20:13.789 --> 00:20:19.789
is it? So unfortunately, because of the world

00:20:19.789 --> 00:20:23.490
we live in and what's out there, There's a lot

00:20:23.490 --> 00:20:26.410
of evil in the world, you know, and not everything

00:20:26.410 --> 00:20:28.329
is evil. I mean, a lot of people ask, some people

00:20:28.329 --> 00:20:31.089
ask me in my lectures, well, Joe, how can we

00:20:31.089 --> 00:20:33.009
talk about a lot of this bad stuff? I said, well,

00:20:33.049 --> 00:20:35.569
that's because people want to hear that. I've

00:20:35.569 --> 00:20:37.809
made many beautiful stories where we've helped

00:20:37.809 --> 00:20:41.150
people with what we call spirit rescue, where

00:20:41.150 --> 00:20:43.289
there might be a spirit attached to a person

00:20:43.289 --> 00:20:47.259
and we'll help, you know, pass that. person over.

00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:49.440
They haven't crossed over. We'll help them cross

00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:51.940
over. Maybe have a loved one come and pull them

00:20:51.940 --> 00:20:53.839
over or something like that. You've got a lot

00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:57.460
of beautiful stories like that, too. But it's

00:20:57.460 --> 00:21:00.460
usually the negative demonic stuff that people

00:21:00.460 --> 00:21:03.200
are really salivating for. I don't know why,

00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:06.180
but I've got plenty of stories on both sides

00:21:06.180 --> 00:21:10.559
to talk about. Yeah, no, please keep going. I

00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.400
mean, I think that, yeah, the spirit rescue thing,

00:21:13.579 --> 00:21:16.779
that would really touch with me more. honestly

00:21:16.779 --> 00:21:20.599
because that's actually one of the reasons that

00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:24.759
i became an investigator to begin with well this

00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:26.940
is one way we help people and that's why we have

00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:29.599
this whole network this whole network with stacia

00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:32.839
and tom you know with with wardruna i mean i'm

00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:36.259
i have psychic ability we all do mine not is

00:21:36.259 --> 00:21:38.480
not as fine -tuned where i could sit down and

00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:41.000
do a reading you know with someone unless i wanted

00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:44.490
to bs like some people do But, you know, I wouldn't

00:21:44.490 --> 00:21:46.970
play with people's emotions like that. So, you

00:21:46.970 --> 00:21:48.789
know, people that claim they're psychic and really

00:21:48.789 --> 00:21:51.069
aren't shouldn't be doing this because you're

00:21:51.069 --> 00:21:52.970
messing with people's lives and their emotions

00:21:52.970 --> 00:21:55.349
and things like that. And shame on those people.

00:21:55.430 --> 00:21:57.289
They know who they are. You know, I know who

00:21:57.289 --> 00:22:00.250
they are, too. You know, but we have we have

00:22:00.250 --> 00:22:03.150
a gifted team of people that can help. Matter

00:22:03.150 --> 00:22:05.170
of fact, I was talking to Stacia last night about

00:22:05.170 --> 00:22:08.599
a personal issue that I have with them. with

00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:11.299
a an elderly woman up around the corner that

00:22:11.299 --> 00:22:14.640
we my wife and i care for and she gave me a message

00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:18.160
you know um last night she was very helpful you

00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:21.059
know but this is for the this is the good part

00:22:21.059 --> 00:22:24.059
of what we do you know it's always about helping

00:22:24.059 --> 00:22:27.279
people you know uh it's not about making money

00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:29.259
it's not about getting famous i mean i don't

00:22:29.259 --> 00:22:32.240
care about that i just i really don't i don't

00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:34.460
care about that i was offered to show ghost hunters

00:22:34.460 --> 00:22:37.480
many years ago i turned it down Pilgrim Films

00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:40.539
contacted us back in 2001, I think it was. I

00:22:40.539 --> 00:22:42.380
didn't know what the show would turn out to be.

00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:45.460
It's still on TV today. Great. I don't have any

00:22:45.460 --> 00:22:48.460
regrets. That's not what I wanted to do. That's

00:22:48.460 --> 00:22:53.900
why I left the show I was working with because

00:22:53.900 --> 00:22:57.339
I didn't feel like it matched up with my end

00:22:57.339 --> 00:22:59.380
goal, with the goals that I want to achieve,

00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:01.660
which is actually to help people. I want to learn

00:23:01.660 --> 00:23:06.240
and I want to help people. The goal is a different

00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:08.839
direction. Well, you know, and you're the kind

00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:11.660
of people that I want to talk to. And, you know,

00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:14.299
I don't know everything. I don't profess to know

00:23:14.299 --> 00:23:16.980
everything. But after 40 years, I know a little

00:23:16.980 --> 00:23:19.700
bit. I know a little bit, you know. But, you

00:23:19.700 --> 00:23:22.059
know, if someone's doing a show and their end

00:23:22.059 --> 00:23:25.500
game is entertainment and stuff like that, you

00:23:25.500 --> 00:23:27.140
know, God bless them. I don't have a problem

00:23:27.140 --> 00:23:29.660
with that. But, you know, people that do that

00:23:29.660 --> 00:23:32.279
for entertainment purposes should let the world

00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:34.700
know. hey this is just for entertainment purposes

00:23:34.700 --> 00:23:38.059
you know don't mislead people because when you

00:23:38.059 --> 00:23:41.339
do that um and you're making a profit that's

00:23:41.339 --> 00:23:44.799
called fraud and you know i don't i don't get

00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:47.960
caught up in the drama believe me i i another

00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:50.019
day goes by when i'll get a phone call or an

00:23:50.019 --> 00:23:51.920
email about something somebody did or somebody

00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:54.359
said i'm like why are you even telling me i don't

00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:57.480
i don't care i'm not involved i'm not going to

00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:00.240
get involved in any of the drama i just want

00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.980
to continue uh the life's work and legacy of

00:24:03.980 --> 00:24:07.039
ed and lorraine and keep their legacy alive uh

00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:10.539
ironically i am now the age that the warrens

00:24:10.539 --> 00:24:15.380
were when i met them you know uh they were about

00:24:15.380 --> 00:24:18.079
the age that laurel and i are now when we met

00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:21.339
them and uh it's kind of come full circle for

00:24:21.339 --> 00:24:23.859
me i know there's a lot of people out there that

00:24:23.859 --> 00:24:26.140
don't care for the warrens or their methods but

00:24:26.589 --> 00:24:28.930
They're not informed. They didn't know them intimately

00:24:28.930 --> 00:24:33.869
like I did. You know, I mean, I would say defend

00:24:33.869 --> 00:24:36.609
their name because I can speak intelligently

00:24:36.609 --> 00:24:39.630
of the character of the people I knew. You know,

00:24:39.630 --> 00:24:41.829
but the haters out there, I'm not going to waste

00:24:41.829 --> 00:24:43.849
my time or energy trying to change their mind.

00:24:43.910 --> 00:24:45.589
They can believe whatever they want. God bless

00:24:45.589 --> 00:24:48.630
them. But everyone's entitled to their opinion.

00:24:49.029 --> 00:24:52.369
I just say make it an informed opinion. And,

00:24:52.750 --> 00:24:54.710
oh, I did the research, or I read something,

00:24:54.809 --> 00:24:57.210
or somebody's cousin's brother's sister's girlfriend

00:24:57.210 --> 00:25:00.029
told me this. I don't care. If you want to know

00:25:00.029 --> 00:25:02.170
something about the Warrens, ask me. If I know

00:25:02.170 --> 00:25:07.730
the answer, I'll tell you. But to bash people

00:25:07.730 --> 00:25:10.670
that are dead and no longer with us and can't

00:25:10.670 --> 00:25:14.069
defend themselves is reprehensible. It really

00:25:14.069 --> 00:25:16.589
is. I don't get involved in any of that stuff,

00:25:16.690 --> 00:25:18.910
but if someone's got a problem or wants a question

00:25:18.910 --> 00:25:20.950
answered, reach out to me. I'll talk to you.

00:25:21.500 --> 00:25:23.480
You know, there's no hate here. I love everybody.

00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:27.160
I don't care. I'm a big teddy bear. I love everybody.

00:25:28.619 --> 00:25:31.099
I've had the opportunity to work with you. You

00:25:31.099 --> 00:25:35.119
were really awesome to work with. Yeah, we had

00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:37.299
an argument with the SOB in the basement that

00:25:37.299 --> 00:25:40.380
night, though. Yeah, we did. I wish I had an

00:25:40.380 --> 00:25:42.539
opportunity to go back there and take care of

00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:45.740
that. But if they want me to, they will. But

00:25:45.740 --> 00:25:49.009
some places like that also. they don't want to

00:25:49.009 --> 00:25:52.210
get rid of what's there because that's, and that's,

00:25:52.210 --> 00:25:55.730
wait, hold on. You don't just say that. And then

00:25:55.730 --> 00:25:57.650
you don't tell the story of what you're talking

00:25:57.650 --> 00:25:59.670
about. Come on guys. I know I'm all jealous.

00:25:59.829 --> 00:26:03.130
I want to know, you know, Timmy, go ahead. You

00:26:03.130 --> 00:26:07.529
can tell her. Um, we were working an episode

00:26:07.529 --> 00:26:10.549
of dark echoes that actually, um, it never, it

00:26:10.549 --> 00:26:13.990
didn't, it's on the cutting room floor. Um, but

00:26:13.990 --> 00:26:17.690
I got the opportunity to work. with joe and we

00:26:17.690 --> 00:26:22.690
worked the basement where there was a um so somebody

00:26:22.690 --> 00:26:26.289
had done like some i think a spirit board or

00:26:26.289 --> 00:26:29.809
something and they believe that it brought a

00:26:29.809 --> 00:26:33.789
negative entity and we we did argue with it for

00:26:33.789 --> 00:26:38.789
sure yeah i i this is a while ago um you know

00:26:38.789 --> 00:26:41.470
i i we're having a good time that night too it's

00:26:41.470 --> 00:26:45.400
very interesting place but If I remember correctly,

00:26:45.579 --> 00:26:47.720
there were some human bones found down there.

00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:51.480
There were. They found human bones in the furnace.

00:26:52.420 --> 00:26:56.539
Yeah. A woman's femur. Yeah. I don't know the

00:26:56.539 --> 00:26:59.480
story because that should have been turned over

00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:01.900
to the authorities, in my opinion. I don't know

00:27:01.900 --> 00:27:05.980
what happened. But there was a negative. It wasn't

00:27:05.980 --> 00:27:08.200
demonic. I don't think it was anything demonic.

00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:11.400
But it was a negative human spirit. Very negative.

00:27:11.929 --> 00:27:14.910
Oh, absolutely. You know, if you're an asshole

00:27:14.910 --> 00:27:17.589
in life, you could be an asshole in death. Absolutely.

00:27:18.410 --> 00:27:22.809
But this guy, this was a male energy who's very

00:27:22.809 --> 00:27:27.069
negative. And, like, you know, what's your problem?

00:27:27.309 --> 00:27:29.450
I mean, you're not scaring anybody here. You

00:27:29.450 --> 00:27:31.930
know, look, I've been thrown across the room

00:27:31.930 --> 00:27:33.809
by demonic forces. You think I'm afraid of a

00:27:33.809 --> 00:27:36.410
human thing? Except my wife. I'm afraid of her.

00:27:37.289 --> 00:27:42.029
Good reason. But, yeah. It's too bad that that

00:27:42.029 --> 00:27:44.109
episode, I don't know really what happened there,

00:27:44.250 --> 00:27:48.210
but you guys are doing a great job filming, and

00:27:48.210 --> 00:27:50.609
Matt did a great job interviewing and stuff.

00:27:51.230 --> 00:27:52.730
I'm not sure what happened. I don't remember

00:27:52.730 --> 00:27:54.509
the story. It was about, I don't know, what,

00:27:54.609 --> 00:27:57.109
a year and a half ago or so? I'm not 100 % sure

00:27:57.109 --> 00:28:00.589
what happened. I remember working with you in

00:28:00.589 --> 00:28:03.089
the basement there, and you had the divining

00:28:03.089 --> 00:28:07.289
rods and stuff. Yep. Every time I would ask a

00:28:07.289 --> 00:28:11.519
question. You know, the divining rods seemed

00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:14.920
to be on point. Oh, they were. We even got part

00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:16.960
of a name. I don't remember what it was, but

00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:19.819
we even got part of a name. So, AJ, you didn't

00:28:19.819 --> 00:28:22.720
know about that story? No, I didn't hear about

00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:24.960
it. So I was super excited to hear about this.

00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:29.539
Yeah, it was an interesting place. I think it

00:28:29.539 --> 00:28:33.619
was the S .K. Pierce Mansion. Oh, okay. Awesome.

00:28:34.339 --> 00:28:37.680
It was an interesting case. There definitely

00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:39.240
was something there because I could feel it.

00:28:39.740 --> 00:28:43.640
When I go into a place, if there's something

00:28:43.640 --> 00:28:46.680
dark, I usually feel it. My cackles, the hairs

00:28:46.680 --> 00:28:48.920
will stand up. I'm like, okay, there's something

00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:55.619
here. But a lot of times I can't see it. Whereas

00:28:55.619 --> 00:28:58.500
someone with more psychic ability would actually

00:28:58.500 --> 00:29:01.980
be able to see these things. I don't normally

00:29:01.980 --> 00:29:05.150
see them myself. I can feel them. i know they're

00:29:05.150 --> 00:29:08.769
around demonic things usually hide in the shadows

00:29:08.769 --> 00:29:10.630
they don't want to be brought into the light

00:29:10.630 --> 00:29:12.869
that's the last thing they want that's why you

00:29:12.869 --> 00:29:15.630
have to use this with religious provocation to

00:29:15.630 --> 00:29:18.390
provoke them you know ed ed told me one day he's

00:29:18.390 --> 00:29:20.529
like you know kid he's like imagine taking a

00:29:20.529 --> 00:29:22.910
stick and there's a tiger in front of you but

00:29:22.910 --> 00:29:25.490
he's in a cage thank god he said you take that

00:29:25.490 --> 00:29:27.789
stick and you poke that tiger in the eye how

00:29:27.789 --> 00:29:29.509
many times you think that tiger's gonna let you

00:29:29.509 --> 00:29:32.130
do that before it takes a swat at you you know

00:29:32.130 --> 00:29:34.640
yeah so you're provoking you know it's like you're

00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:35.960
standing in front of me and you're pushing each

00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:38.160
other eventually someone's going to take a swing

00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:40.599
you know and that's the same thing that happens

00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:43.819
in in this but it's not something that you should

00:29:43.819 --> 00:29:45.859
really be doing if you don't know what you're

00:29:45.859 --> 00:29:49.079
doing it's it's dangerous for even the most seasoned

00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:51.680
veteran to be doing something like that but you

00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:54.079
need to draw it out of the shadow sometimes to

00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:56.700
discern what you're dealing with you know what

00:29:56.700 --> 00:29:59.519
are we dealing with exactly here and then sometimes

00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:02.160
you you'll get a response an overwhelming response

00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:05.470
that you may not have expected you know we had

00:30:05.470 --> 00:30:07.990
um you know like i said that case where i was

00:30:07.990 --> 00:30:10.250
tossed across the room i'm like i had no idea

00:30:10.250 --> 00:30:13.450
what happened you know i was just uh people like

00:30:13.450 --> 00:30:15.609
geez joe weren't you scared i go yeah i was scared

00:30:15.609 --> 00:30:20.450
i was 22 23 years old you know and i i my brain

00:30:20.450 --> 00:30:24.569
tried to um figure out what just happened to

00:30:24.569 --> 00:30:26.849
me and i was terrified what did it feel like

00:30:28.759 --> 00:30:31.200
It was almost felt like I was pushed and pulled

00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:33.000
at the same time. All of a sudden I was here.

00:30:33.019 --> 00:30:36.619
Then I was there. And I went about 10 or 12 feet.

00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:38.759
I smashed up against the wall, my right shoulder.

00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:42.920
I remember I put a dent in the wall and you know,

00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:48.619
I got up and I was so disoriented. I was angry.

00:30:48.740 --> 00:30:50.420
I remember I was angry. I'm like, you mother,

00:30:50.500 --> 00:30:54.539
you know, I was so mad that I felt violated in

00:30:54.539 --> 00:30:58.269
a sense, you know? um yeah but that one i remember

00:30:58.269 --> 00:31:01.789
because i tell that story a lot because that

00:31:01.789 --> 00:31:04.349
was kind of an initiation to me into the the

00:31:04.349 --> 00:31:08.289
world of of uh demonic forces because human spirits

00:31:08.289 --> 00:31:11.109
can push you they can scratch you they can touch

00:31:11.109 --> 00:31:13.470
you but they're not going to be moving a 360

00:31:13.470 --> 00:31:17.950
mile man like that okay that's that's superhuman

00:31:17.950 --> 00:31:21.170
strength right there you know uh and i've been

00:31:21.170 --> 00:31:23.710
punched burned scratched bitten you know like

00:31:23.710 --> 00:31:25.960
i said thrown across the room It's happened a

00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:28.160
lot over the last 40 years, but, you know, it's

00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:31.519
not something that I'm proud of. You know, I

00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:34.319
hope it never happens again because I'm old now.

00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:37.400
I don't want to break something. But as I said

00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:40.339
earlier, with my health issues that I've been

00:31:40.339 --> 00:31:43.059
fighting for the last couple of years, I have

00:31:43.059 --> 00:31:45.720
to be careful. I have to be smart about things.

00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:50.460
You know, and, you know, if this case that I'm

00:31:50.460 --> 00:31:53.119
working on outside Philadelphia turns into something,

00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:56.769
I will go there. but I won't go there unprepared.

00:31:57.650 --> 00:32:02.230
Not only physically, but also spiritually. You

00:32:02.230 --> 00:32:06.410
have to be in a state of grace or a state of

00:32:06.410 --> 00:32:11.450
absolution. So what I mean by that is I go to

00:32:11.450 --> 00:32:15.130
confession, confess all your sins and be absolved

00:32:15.130 --> 00:32:18.769
of those sins. Because if you go up against the

00:32:18.769 --> 00:32:21.549
demonic and you have any sins that you haven't

00:32:21.549 --> 00:32:26.640
confessed, it'll know. it'll know and it'll call

00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:30.720
you on it. And it happens to even some of the

00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:36.819
clergy. It's a very fascinating field. Unfortunately,

00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:40.259
there's not too many people that I know that

00:32:40.259 --> 00:32:43.180
are really serious about it. I've got a lot of

00:32:43.180 --> 00:32:45.579
friends and colleagues that I came up through

00:32:45.579 --> 00:32:49.000
the years with that do a lot of good work, that

00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:51.880
have a lot of experiences that I have. You know,

00:32:51.900 --> 00:32:54.859
but what you see on YouTube and television today,

00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:58.519
it's not real. You know, some of the shows are

00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:00.480
very entertaining and I like some of them. They're

00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:04.400
very well done and edited very well. But, you

00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:07.279
know, I'm like, you know, I turn to my wife sometimes.

00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:09.539
I'm like, if these people really were involved

00:33:09.539 --> 00:33:12.220
in a demonic case, they would shit themselves.

00:33:12.619 --> 00:33:14.940
They wouldn't know what to do. And it scares

00:33:14.940 --> 00:33:17.529
me. well it scares me i'm not trying to knock

00:33:17.529 --> 00:33:19.670
anybody i'm just saying it scares me because

00:33:19.670 --> 00:33:23.230
they know not what they do you know people people

00:33:23.230 --> 00:33:25.970
mock what they don't understand if you don't

00:33:25.970 --> 00:33:28.869
understand what you're doing you know if you're

00:33:28.869 --> 00:33:31.410
only you know claimed to any sort of education

00:33:31.410 --> 00:33:34.210
in the paranormal is watching tv shows you're

00:33:34.210 --> 00:33:37.289
in trouble you know you're in trouble you really

00:33:37.289 --> 00:33:40.430
need to study about this and and spend the 40

00:33:40.430 --> 00:33:43.289
years doing it before you go you know kicking

00:33:43.289 --> 00:33:46.509
down doors and saying come and get me Because

00:33:46.509 --> 00:33:48.730
what are you going to do when they do come and

00:33:48.730 --> 00:33:53.509
get you? Right. Exactly. And I know you said

00:33:53.509 --> 00:33:55.289
that you had like a lot of appearances coming

00:33:55.289 --> 00:33:57.569
up that you're going to be doing. I was just

00:33:57.569 --> 00:33:59.670
wondering, are any of them like educational?

00:34:00.970 --> 00:34:05.170
Well, yes. My calendar is starting to fill up

00:34:05.170 --> 00:34:07.690
for the year. It's only March. Unfortunately,

00:34:07.710 --> 00:34:09.750
I do a lot of public libraries in Connecticut.

00:34:10.190 --> 00:34:15.130
I think last October I had 22 events in 31 days.

00:34:16.070 --> 00:34:19.289
And I was exhausted. But, you know, I do a lot

00:34:19.289 --> 00:34:21.650
of libraries through September through November,

00:34:21.789 --> 00:34:23.630
usually that time frame, because, you know, let's

00:34:23.630 --> 00:34:26.190
face it, Halloween, spooky season. I get that.

00:34:27.389 --> 00:34:30.949
But, yeah, I have a program. I put together a

00:34:30.949 --> 00:34:33.769
PowerPoint. I'm actually working on a new one

00:34:33.769 --> 00:34:38.409
now. I try to change it up every year where I'll

00:34:38.409 --> 00:34:44.889
show video evidence, audio evidence, photographs.

00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:49.000
from cases that I've worked through the years.

00:34:49.139 --> 00:34:52.260
Some of the stuff, you know, I also offer lectures.

00:34:52.380 --> 00:34:54.840
I'll talk about Annabelle and Amityville. As

00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:58.500
it was told to me, I wasn't there. But my mentors

00:34:58.500 --> 00:35:02.880
at the record worked on these cases. And, you

00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:05.159
know, the case in Connecticut, my good friend

00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:08.500
John Zaffis and Chris McKinnell worked on that

00:35:08.500 --> 00:35:11.099
case. That's the Snedeker case here in Southington,

00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:14.579
which is about 15 minutes from my house. You

00:35:14.579 --> 00:35:18.119
know, so. I want to study those cases so I can

00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:20.360
speak intelligently about it. So I can tell the

00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:23.539
story. However, I wasn't part of that. I remember

00:35:23.539 --> 00:35:26.519
the haunting in Connecticut. Ed said to me, he

00:35:26.519 --> 00:35:28.079
goes, you know, kid, he always called me kid.

00:35:28.300 --> 00:35:30.400
He's like, you know, kid, I got a case, a really

00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:32.300
bad case right up there where you live, but you're

00:35:32.300 --> 00:35:35.199
not ready for it yet. That case ran, I think,

00:35:35.219 --> 00:35:39.239
86 to 88. I joined in the latter part of 86.

00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:42.219
So he's right. I wasn't ready for it. Would I

00:35:42.219 --> 00:35:46.800
have gone? Absolutely. you know scared of my

00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:50.159
out of my mind but that's how you learn sometimes

00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:53.000
you got a baptism by fire you know absolutely

00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:57.519
answer your question tammy i try uh i'm a big

00:35:57.519 --> 00:35:59.960
dumb animal i'm a big clown i like to joke around

00:35:59.960 --> 00:36:02.340
so i have a lot of fun with my audience but there's

00:36:02.340 --> 00:36:04.619
an educational message in there so when it's

00:36:04.619 --> 00:36:06.980
time to get serious i have a whole section where

00:36:06.980 --> 00:36:09.780
i talk about divination okay which is basically

00:36:09.780 --> 00:36:11.880
like fortune telling trying to find out information

00:36:11.880 --> 00:36:15.420
about the future or hidden knowledge Okay. And

00:36:15.420 --> 00:36:18.900
the most common instrument today is the Ouija

00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:23.139
board. Ouija board. Yes, it's a board game. All

00:36:23.139 --> 00:36:27.880
right. However, it's the intention and the free

00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:30.500
will that you put into it. What is your intention

00:36:30.500 --> 00:36:33.679
in using a Ouija board? Well, why use a Ouija

00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:35.440
board unless you want to find out something about

00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:38.039
your future or you want to make contact with

00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:44.360
spirits? It's very, very dangerous. you know,

00:36:44.380 --> 00:36:46.300
if you've used one and you've had no adverse

00:36:46.300 --> 00:36:49.940
effects, God bless you. But, you know, I'm just

00:36:49.940 --> 00:36:51.860
saying, why spin the wheel and take a chance?

00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:55.840
You know, Ouija boards, seances, crystal balls,

00:36:56.139 --> 00:37:00.500
even divining rods, you know, those things can

00:37:00.500 --> 00:37:04.340
be dangerous if you're using them and you're

00:37:04.340 --> 00:37:09.059
not experienced with it. Even tarot cards. When

00:37:09.059 --> 00:37:11.900
I did the event in Newtown, AJ, where I saw you

00:37:11.900 --> 00:37:16.019
guys, there was a woman that uh she came up to

00:37:16.019 --> 00:37:18.320
me after i was walking out of the lecture hall

00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:20.780
and she said you know joe at first when you were

00:37:20.780 --> 00:37:23.739
talking i got angry and she goes but then when

00:37:23.739 --> 00:37:26.619
you followed up she goes i said wow he's right

00:37:26.619 --> 00:37:30.260
so i was talking about seances and tarot cards

00:37:30.260 --> 00:37:33.119
and and she's like i've been using tarot cards

00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:35.840
for 30 something years but you're right so well

00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:38.219
if you know how to use them and you you do them

00:37:38.219 --> 00:37:41.079
correctly let me give you let me let me explain

00:37:41.079 --> 00:37:44.469
about what i'm talking about when you're a psychic

00:37:44.469 --> 00:37:47.070
medium if you're using your gifts whether you

00:37:47.070 --> 00:37:49.949
use tarot cards or something like that if you

00:37:49.949 --> 00:37:52.309
get a message from the other side for a client

00:37:52.309 --> 00:37:57.570
that's a gift that's a gift okay but if you're

00:37:57.570 --> 00:38:01.429
misusing those powers and now you're trying to

00:38:01.429 --> 00:38:03.949
find information that's not meant for you to

00:38:03.949 --> 00:38:08.150
know okay that's divination that's not good you

00:38:08.150 --> 00:38:12.300
know I always say God has our futures mapped

00:38:12.300 --> 00:38:14.940
out for us and he gives us our free will to make

00:38:14.940 --> 00:38:17.739
it what it is. But, you know, don't mess with

00:38:17.739 --> 00:38:19.340
that because that could be very dangerous. That's

00:38:19.340 --> 00:38:21.699
a fine line. That's a fine line right there.

00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:25.460
That's a scary fine line, you know. It is scary.

00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:29.719
And, you know, I just tell folks, you know, people

00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:31.719
have come to my lectures. I had a guy in Westport,

00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:33.260
Connecticut. I remember he was sitting there

00:38:33.260 --> 00:38:35.300
and I joke around. I say, how many people here,

00:38:35.500 --> 00:38:38.070
you know, don't believe in ghosts? you know i

00:38:38.070 --> 00:38:39.710
get a couple people raise their hand you know

00:38:39.710 --> 00:38:41.989
sheepishly they said how many people are here

00:38:41.989 --> 00:38:43.230
because you had nothing better to do tonight

00:38:43.230 --> 00:38:46.090
you know and there was one guy that kind of laughed

00:38:46.090 --> 00:38:48.090
and i said i said are you a believer and he's

00:38:48.090 --> 00:38:50.110
like not really he goes my wife dragged me here

00:38:50.110 --> 00:38:54.070
i said that's fine i said uh that's great i said

00:38:54.070 --> 00:38:56.230
uh if you're skeptical that i'm i'm my own biggest

00:38:56.230 --> 00:39:00.510
skeptic you know i said but maybe uh talk to

00:39:00.510 --> 00:39:02.670
me after the show i'd like to see if you if you

00:39:02.670 --> 00:39:06.329
know how you feel then and uh he was really not

00:39:06.329 --> 00:39:10.079
a believer you know um in in this stuff and uh

00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:12.300
i went through my program and showed him and

00:39:12.300 --> 00:39:14.800
and he came up to me he goes you know you might

00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:16.340
really have something here he goes i'm really

00:39:16.340 --> 00:39:19.039
starting to think i said well that's fine i said

00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:21.760
i'm like fox news i report you decide i'm not

00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:23.920
trying to change anybody's minds i'm just telling

00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:26.860
you look this is my history this is what i've

00:39:26.860 --> 00:39:28.940
been through these are the cases i've worked

00:39:28.940 --> 00:39:32.829
on and they don't always work out I mean, you

00:39:32.829 --> 00:39:34.690
know, it's not like Hollywood. You go in there,

00:39:34.769 --> 00:39:37.530
you throw some, you know, holy water around and

00:39:37.530 --> 00:39:41.090
say a few prayers, and everything's fine. It

00:39:41.090 --> 00:39:44.070
doesn't work that way. Matter of fact, your average,

00:39:44.289 --> 00:39:46.369
you know, if someone's possessed, the average

00:39:46.369 --> 00:39:50.369
exorcism takes three to five years. Wow. And

00:39:50.369 --> 00:39:54.690
that comes from, I believe, Father Gabriel Amor.

00:39:55.030 --> 00:39:58.570
You know, you don't just do one and done. That's

00:39:58.570 --> 00:40:03.269
extremely rare for that to happen. um yeah yeah

00:40:03.269 --> 00:40:06.409
i mean the movie the exorcist you guys seen that

00:40:06.409 --> 00:40:09.150
movie the exorcist yeah yeah based on a true

00:40:09.150 --> 00:40:12.230
story started out with a ouija board well it

00:40:12.230 --> 00:40:15.530
took 60 i think 67 exorcisms to liberate that

00:40:15.530 --> 00:40:18.730
young boy you know and that's a good news story

00:40:18.730 --> 00:40:22.349
because that young boy grew grew up to uh be

00:40:22.349 --> 00:40:25.809
a nasa engineer for 40 years he just died in

00:40:25.809 --> 00:40:29.210
2020 you know and i thought yeah i was wondering

00:40:29.739 --> 00:40:31.639
i always wanted yeah no one ever talked about

00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:33.079
it so i always wondered what happened to him

00:40:33.079 --> 00:40:36.760
well yeah his name was ronald edwin hunkler and

00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:39.260
he was a nasa engineer uh worked on the space

00:40:39.260 --> 00:40:41.760
shuttle program and all that he went on to live

00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:45.280
a normal life for as normal as possible he just

00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:48.820
died at the age of 84 in 2020. so i talk about

00:40:48.820 --> 00:40:51.239
that case that's a good news case then i talk

00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:53.480
about a bad news case which is annalise michelle

00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:58.119
you know you know the movie the the exorcism

00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:00.889
of emily rose Alright, that didn't end well.

00:41:01.010 --> 00:41:04.769
She ended up passing away. Not because she was

00:41:04.769 --> 00:41:08.230
killed directly by the demonic forces. Okay?

00:41:08.309 --> 00:41:10.550
What happened is, of her own free will, she gave

00:41:10.550 --> 00:41:13.590
up. And she stopped eating and drinking. She

00:41:13.590 --> 00:41:18.570
was 66 pounds when she died. Yeah. Very tragic

00:41:18.570 --> 00:41:21.289
story. I remember reading that. I remember reading

00:41:21.289 --> 00:41:24.489
about it. They physically beat the hell out of

00:41:24.489 --> 00:41:27.130
you. But, you know, you gotta understand, these

00:41:27.130 --> 00:41:29.929
things, these... entities, whatever you want

00:41:29.929 --> 00:41:32.170
to call them, they're on a very short leash.

00:41:32.869 --> 00:41:36.010
They have to abide by what their creator says

00:41:36.010 --> 00:41:39.190
also. So they're on a short leash, but they only

00:41:39.190 --> 00:41:47.789
can do what God allows. I find it crazy. I find

00:41:47.789 --> 00:41:53.349
it absolutely crazy. So whatever these entities

00:41:53.349 --> 00:41:57.119
are, right? whether we call them demons angels

00:41:57.119 --> 00:41:59.019
it doesn't really matter but whatever these entities

00:41:59.019 --> 00:42:01.760
are that communicate that end up possessing people

00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:04.380
that end up doing these things these negative

00:42:04.380 --> 00:42:08.340
things it makes you wonder what it is that's

00:42:08.340 --> 00:42:11.159
holding them back from doing the most damage

00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:14.000
that they want to do or what it is or why they're

00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:16.260
on that short leash and not not just saying like

00:42:16.260 --> 00:42:18.519
okay it's yes it's god because i know that it's

00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:21.719
god but i just saying like what is actually stopping

00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:25.639
them like what is it like an energy is it a a

00:42:25.639 --> 00:42:28.619
force field between us and the realm you know

00:42:28.619 --> 00:42:30.760
what i'm saying like what what could it be that

00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:33.400
is stopping them from fully going rampant on

00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:37.460
us well like you said it's it's god it's your

00:42:37.460 --> 00:42:41.579
faith i mean yeah that that's a very good question

00:42:41.579 --> 00:42:43.760
it's really not one i can answer because i don't

00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:47.639
have that information yeah yeah i just know that

00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:50.039
in in all the work i've done and the studying

00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:53.960
i've done is that these entities and they are

00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:58.610
angels they're just fallen angels as demons they're

00:42:58.610 --> 00:43:01.030
just they're angels they're just fallen angels

00:43:01.030 --> 00:43:03.670
you know they they rebelled against god and they

00:43:03.670 --> 00:43:07.210
were cast out and you know satan uh lucifer he

00:43:07.210 --> 00:43:10.869
may be the the the the head honcho there and

00:43:10.869 --> 00:43:13.550
um but they're like i said they're on a short

00:43:13.550 --> 00:43:17.489
leash because you know if something happens if

00:43:17.489 --> 00:43:20.630
they hurt someone or do something or whatever

00:43:20.630 --> 00:43:23.170
that's only because god allows it and that's

00:43:23.170 --> 00:43:25.389
my faith that tells me that People say, well,

00:43:25.469 --> 00:43:27.570
how do you know that? Well, I know that because

00:43:27.570 --> 00:43:31.829
I have faith. There's people out there that don't

00:43:31.829 --> 00:43:33.369
have faith. There's people out there that may

00:43:33.369 --> 00:43:35.250
be listening and say, oh, Joe's full of it. Well,

00:43:35.269 --> 00:43:37.030
that's fine. You can believe whatever you want.

00:43:37.190 --> 00:43:39.630
I'm not going to argue with it. But I haven't

00:43:39.630 --> 00:43:43.090
been doing this for 40 years for no reason. I

00:43:43.090 --> 00:43:45.630
haven't wasted 40 years of my life on nothing.

00:43:47.789 --> 00:43:50.670
that's why i do these educational uh seminars

00:43:50.670 --> 00:43:52.710
and things like that because people that want

00:43:52.710 --> 00:43:54.369
to learn you know if you want to come out and

00:43:54.369 --> 00:43:56.269
share a good ghost story i'll accommodate you

00:43:56.269 --> 00:43:58.730
you know it's fine but if you're a researcher

00:43:58.730 --> 00:44:00.750
i don't even like the word paranormal investigator

00:44:00.750 --> 00:44:03.650
because the investigation part of it is part

00:44:03.650 --> 00:44:06.309
of the research the last thing you should do

00:44:06.309 --> 00:44:08.929
is load up the mystery machine and grab scooby

00:44:08.929 --> 00:44:12.150
-doo and go running out to someone's house right

00:44:12.150 --> 00:44:15.920
half cocked Cause you don't get phone calls and

00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:18.500
emails that received over the years from the

00:44:18.500 --> 00:44:22.079
ABC paranormal. And like, Joe, we're up, we're

00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:24.260
out at this house and you know, something went

00:44:24.260 --> 00:44:25.980
flying across the room and we grabbed all our

00:44:25.980 --> 00:44:28.380
equipment and run, run it out of there. You know?

00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:31.320
Yeah. Yeah. And now, now you're really scared

00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:33.900
the client because they're like, we, we asked

00:44:33.900 --> 00:44:35.880
you to come in to help us understand what we're

00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:38.019
experiencing. And now you're scared and you're

00:44:38.019 --> 00:44:41.659
running out of here. Well, and like, you know,

00:44:41.659 --> 00:44:44.449
I've gotten calls from, clients of people and

00:44:44.449 --> 00:44:47.510
also these groups themselves i'm like well tell

00:44:47.510 --> 00:44:50.210
me what happened and i try to help as much as

00:44:50.210 --> 00:44:53.550
i can um usually it's it's you know consulting

00:44:53.550 --> 00:44:55.789
i do a lot of consulting on the phone or through

00:44:55.789 --> 00:44:58.190
zoom or something like that you know i'm not

00:44:58.190 --> 00:45:00.309
not a liberty to just jump on a plane and go

00:45:00.309 --> 00:45:04.530
out to sacramento i mean if i'm needed and there's

00:45:04.530 --> 00:45:06.710
a case out there i'm you know where they really

00:45:06.710 --> 00:45:10.030
need my help i would do it but i have to be careful

00:45:10.030 --> 00:45:14.269
with my own health Now that I'm older, hopefully

00:45:14.269 --> 00:45:18.489
wiser, but now I have a heart issue that I'm

00:45:18.489 --> 00:45:21.329
dealing with. My doctor and my wife have me on

00:45:21.329 --> 00:45:26.210
a short leash. Yeah. Because I'm not impervious

00:45:26.210 --> 00:45:31.849
to attacks. No. Lately, I've experienced a lot

00:45:31.849 --> 00:45:36.710
of demonic influence, let me just put it that

00:45:36.710 --> 00:45:42.389
way, in my life. with things in my own house

00:45:42.389 --> 00:45:47.329
that will happen uh here but i protect myself

00:45:47.329 --> 00:45:51.530
i protect my family um you know and by protection

00:45:51.530 --> 00:45:54.610
i mean you know i i my faith is the protection

00:45:54.610 --> 00:45:59.269
you know yeah but i've got so much going on i

00:45:59.269 --> 00:46:01.769
have to be smart about it and that's why i have

00:46:01.769 --> 00:46:05.389
a whole team of people you know that i try to

00:46:05.389 --> 00:46:09.789
mentor and pass on my knowledge to them uh but

00:46:09.789 --> 00:46:12.269
and these are all all very knowledgeable gifted

00:46:12.269 --> 00:46:14.789
people these aren't just somebody that says hey

00:46:14.789 --> 00:46:16.510
i'm interested in being a paranormal researcher

00:46:16.510 --> 00:46:19.269
and like you know and when i talk about this

00:46:19.269 --> 00:46:21.869
stuff to my audience i said if there's any any

00:46:21.869 --> 00:46:24.630
researchers in my audience please don't take

00:46:24.630 --> 00:46:26.809
this the wrong way because i was once where you

00:46:26.809 --> 00:46:29.829
are now all right and you said i was an 18 year

00:46:29.829 --> 00:46:32.190
old snot nose teenager i didn't know my ass from

00:46:32.190 --> 00:46:36.269
my elbow you know and i'm still not snot nose

00:46:36.269 --> 00:46:39.530
i say I have three children. My wife has four,

00:46:39.670 --> 00:46:42.489
you know, because I'm a big Toys R Us kid. I

00:46:42.489 --> 00:46:45.150
never wanted to grow up, you know. But when it's

00:46:45.150 --> 00:46:48.170
time to get serious about this, I tell people,

00:46:48.309 --> 00:46:50.469
you know, you know, Zach Bagans, I said to him

00:46:50.469 --> 00:46:52.550
one day, I'm like, dude, you shouldn't be messing

00:46:52.550 --> 00:46:56.130
with this. I know you're a showman. I know this

00:46:56.130 --> 00:46:58.289
is what you do and you're very successful at

00:46:58.289 --> 00:47:00.230
it. God bless you. But if you're going to stand

00:47:00.230 --> 00:47:02.650
there and say things like, if this is the gates

00:47:02.650 --> 00:47:06.659
of hell, why don't you rise up and get me? That's

00:47:06.659 --> 00:47:09.159
not a smart thing to say. That's not a smart

00:47:09.159 --> 00:47:13.500
thing to say. Yeah. Oh, this guy just opened

00:47:13.500 --> 00:47:16.900
the door wide open for us. He was just kidding.

00:47:17.019 --> 00:47:20.480
He's just doing it for TV. You open that door.

00:47:21.079 --> 00:47:24.059
You open that door, you may not be able to close

00:47:24.059 --> 00:47:26.739
it. That's why when people tell me, well, Joe,

00:47:26.920 --> 00:47:29.480
there's this house you went into. There's a portal

00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:32.260
there. I said, okay, well, if there really is

00:47:32.260 --> 00:47:34.880
a portal there, then you need to work to close

00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:37.239
it. don't go in there with you know people start

00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:40.320
um you know conjuring and provoking because you

00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:42.739
don't know what's going to come through i said

00:47:42.739 --> 00:47:44.659
something could come through and attach itself

00:47:44.659 --> 00:47:47.239
to you or go after something with someone that

00:47:47.239 --> 00:47:49.480
you most love like your family your children

00:47:49.480 --> 00:47:53.119
you think that's funny now that's what this is

00:47:53.119 --> 00:47:55.940
what i say to people you know and you know but

00:47:55.940 --> 00:47:57.980
it's all about money people want to rent out

00:47:57.980 --> 00:48:00.389
their house or they'll buy a house and it's Okay,

00:48:00.449 --> 00:48:02.889
the house is 300 years old. Let's make up some

00:48:02.889 --> 00:48:05.250
story that the place is haunted. Invite people

00:48:05.250 --> 00:48:09.190
in. It's a lot of money. And people do it because

00:48:09.190 --> 00:48:10.889
they're gullible. They don't know any better.

00:48:11.250 --> 00:48:13.789
I'm like, well, there may be something there

00:48:13.789 --> 00:48:15.670
that may not be there, but why would you provoke

00:48:15.670 --> 00:48:19.349
it? Why would you do that? It totally goes against

00:48:19.349 --> 00:48:22.150
what I'm trying to teach people. But when people

00:48:22.150 --> 00:48:24.489
see dollar signs that all they want is money,

00:48:24.829 --> 00:48:28.929
you know, it's not about money. Trust me, I don't

00:48:28.929 --> 00:48:31.389
have any money. I'm broke because of this work.

00:48:31.809 --> 00:48:34.110
When someone needs my help and they can't afford

00:48:34.110 --> 00:48:36.590
to even pay my travel expenses, don't worry about

00:48:36.590 --> 00:48:39.110
it. I'll be there. And it comes out of my pocket.

00:48:39.510 --> 00:48:42.809
But that's what I signed up for. Like I said,

00:48:42.829 --> 00:48:46.150
this is a vocation. It's not an occupation. I

00:48:46.150 --> 00:48:48.809
just want people to be very careful and educate

00:48:48.809 --> 00:48:51.329
themselves before they go storming into these

00:48:51.329 --> 00:48:53.949
places with their cameras, hoping to get the

00:48:53.949 --> 00:48:56.070
money shot to load up on their social media pages.

00:48:56.550 --> 00:48:59.050
That's not what this is about. At least for me,

00:48:59.090 --> 00:49:04.409
anyway. Yeah, absolutely. We have a viewer. Her

00:49:04.409 --> 00:49:07.409
name is Urbex Amanda Explorer, and she asked,

00:49:07.469 --> 00:49:10.349
for the last two years, I get visits from a woman

00:49:10.349 --> 00:49:13.690
who passed in NL, and I don't know how to help

00:49:13.690 --> 00:49:16.829
her. She shows me the inside her house and how

00:49:16.829 --> 00:49:19.570
she passed. What would you recommend to her?

00:49:19.630 --> 00:49:22.110
Would you recommend stay away from this and not

00:49:22.110 --> 00:49:27.719
do this? I know Amanda. Hi, Amanda. Say hi to

00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:29.820
your mom for me. That's a very good question.

00:49:30.260 --> 00:49:33.679
So I know, Amanda, this is something, if you

00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:35.559
need my help, reach out to me privately about

00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:38.659
this. But what you can do is you can pray for

00:49:38.659 --> 00:49:41.980
this person. You can pray for their soul, okay?

00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:45.059
Pray for one of their loved ones to help them.

00:49:45.460 --> 00:49:48.019
But I'll need you to get in touch with me and

00:49:48.019 --> 00:49:50.420
fill me in a little bit more on it. But anybody

00:49:50.420 --> 00:49:55.210
can help anybody. You know, God, in my belief

00:49:55.210 --> 00:49:58.150
system, the Bible says Jesus gave us all the

00:49:58.150 --> 00:50:01.550
power to cast out demons in his name. It's not

00:50:01.550 --> 00:50:03.309
like I, Joe Frankie, cast you out. It's going

00:50:03.309 --> 00:50:07.170
to eat me for lunch. You know, it's I, you know,

00:50:07.170 --> 00:50:10.369
in the power and blood of Christ, cast you out.

00:50:10.789 --> 00:50:13.889
You know, and Ed said to me one day, I'll never

00:50:13.889 --> 00:50:15.909
forget this. He said, you know, Kitty goes, the

00:50:15.909 --> 00:50:20.349
devil knows who we are and he hates us. Us in

00:50:20.349 --> 00:50:22.750
particular, not just because we're made in the

00:50:22.750 --> 00:50:25.750
image of God, but because we're willing to stand

00:50:25.750 --> 00:50:30.789
up to him and spit in his eye. I'm not afraid

00:50:30.789 --> 00:50:33.750
anymore. I'm very apprehensive and I'm very respectful

00:50:33.750 --> 00:50:38.690
of the power. And everyone should be. But I have

00:50:38.690 --> 00:50:43.690
a saying that I say all the time. Faith and fear

00:50:43.690 --> 00:50:47.570
cannot coexist. And what I mean by that is if

00:50:47.570 --> 00:50:50.550
you're very deeply routed in your faith and your

00:50:50.550 --> 00:50:53.869
face is unshakable, then you have nothing to

00:50:53.869 --> 00:50:57.929
fear. They cannot coexist on the same level because

00:50:57.929 --> 00:51:01.710
your faith and your fear is really, you know,

00:51:01.710 --> 00:51:05.070
in the unknown. You know, so it's like if you

00:51:05.070 --> 00:51:07.309
have faith and you turn behind you and look who's

00:51:07.309 --> 00:51:11.670
in your corner, you know, I'm not afraid. I'm

00:51:11.670 --> 00:51:14.789
too old and grumpy to be afraid anymore. but

00:51:14.789 --> 00:51:17.989
you have to be respectful of the power of these

00:51:17.989 --> 00:51:22.210
things absolutely and it's not all bad it's just

00:51:22.210 --> 00:51:24.409
it's all that about that free will and intention

00:51:24.409 --> 00:51:27.650
if you go in there guns blazing and you go in

00:51:27.650 --> 00:51:29.590
there with a ouija board like ah come on you

00:51:29.590 --> 00:51:32.170
know you know we're not afraid you know come

00:51:32.170 --> 00:51:34.409
on throw something across the room slam a door

00:51:34.409 --> 00:51:38.409
open a window i'm sitting there going oh my god

00:51:39.070 --> 00:51:42.750
You know, like going to a restaurant and ordering

00:51:42.750 --> 00:51:45.570
food and then getting scared or upset when the

00:51:45.570 --> 00:51:47.650
waiter brings you exactly what you asked for.

00:51:49.309 --> 00:51:51.750
Well, you know, I'm probably not going to make

00:51:51.750 --> 00:51:54.170
a lot of friends by a lot of stuff I said, but

00:51:54.170 --> 00:51:55.809
you know what? I'm just telling you how it is,

00:51:55.889 --> 00:52:00.289
folks. This is what I've lived for 40 years.

00:52:00.670 --> 00:52:04.869
If my phone's not ringing, I'm happy. I haven't

00:52:04.869 --> 00:52:08.679
had a case. well we need to get cases no we don't

00:52:08.679 --> 00:52:13.820
we don't my fear is that the people that really

00:52:13.820 --> 00:52:17.260
need the kind of help that i or my colleagues

00:52:17.260 --> 00:52:20.400
can provide that they won't find us because there's

00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:25.679
just this paranormal community so to speak whatever

00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:29.519
that means you know um there's so many people

00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:32.099
out there that are inexperienced and they're

00:52:32.099 --> 00:52:35.730
in it for the wrong reasons i .e. personal gain,

00:52:35.869 --> 00:52:39.690
fame, money. If you're in this work for the right

00:52:39.690 --> 00:52:43.230
reason, there's no money in it for you. There's

00:52:43.230 --> 00:52:45.889
no money in it for you, and you should be okay

00:52:45.889 --> 00:52:50.329
with that. If you're honestly looking to help

00:52:50.329 --> 00:52:52.829
people that are afflicted, whether good, bad,

00:52:52.829 --> 00:52:55.489
or indifferent, not everything's bad. Some people

00:52:55.489 --> 00:52:58.230
don't have a paranormal issue. They just want

00:52:58.230 --> 00:53:01.369
someone to listen to them and help them understand

00:53:01.369 --> 00:53:05.469
what's going on. You know, and that's a lot of

00:53:05.469 --> 00:53:07.690
what I do. I've got a lot of stories. I don't

00:53:07.690 --> 00:53:10.349
talk about them too much because nothing really

00:53:10.349 --> 00:53:12.909
happened. But I've got a lot of cases that I've

00:53:12.909 --> 00:53:15.710
worked where, you know, you'd be out there and

00:53:15.710 --> 00:53:19.690
I'd spend days, weeks, months, years sometimes

00:53:19.690 --> 00:53:23.329
working with families and nothing happens. And

00:53:23.329 --> 00:53:25.090
like, I don't know, Joe, whenever you leave,

00:53:25.190 --> 00:53:28.150
this happens or that happens. And I'm like, well,

00:53:28.250 --> 00:53:31.739
do this, this or this. And sometimes it works,

00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:33.539
sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it's just one

00:53:33.539 --> 00:53:35.860
member of the family that's afflicted. Sometimes

00:53:35.860 --> 00:53:40.099
the whole family witnesses stuff. So each case

00:53:40.099 --> 00:53:42.699
is different. And you got to figure out, okay,

00:53:42.760 --> 00:53:45.019
how long have you lived here? 20 years. Well,

00:53:45.059 --> 00:53:47.179
when did the activity start? About three years

00:53:47.179 --> 00:53:49.900
ago. All right, well, let's stop right here and

00:53:49.900 --> 00:53:53.219
work backwards. What happened three years ago

00:53:53.219 --> 00:53:56.480
that may have triggered something? All right,

00:53:56.480 --> 00:53:59.679
whether it was something paranormal. Or maybe

00:53:59.679 --> 00:54:02.480
it was something psychological. Was there a traumatic

00:54:02.480 --> 00:54:05.659
event, you know, like an accident or a death

00:54:05.659 --> 00:54:08.380
in your family or something like that that traumatized

00:54:08.380 --> 00:54:12.599
you? Is someone, you know, addicted to drugs

00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:16.119
or alcohol or pornography even? I don't say that

00:54:16.119 --> 00:54:19.139
to be funny. Pornography is an addiction, you

00:54:19.139 --> 00:54:22.480
know, for some people. And it's also a doorway,

00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:26.300
you know. It could be a form of psychosis or

00:54:26.300 --> 00:54:29.130
schizophrenia or something like that. Some event

00:54:29.130 --> 00:54:32.590
in your life three years ago that triggered what

00:54:32.590 --> 00:54:34.530
you're experiencing or you say you're experiencing

00:54:34.530 --> 00:54:38.989
now, whether it be real or not. But what I'd

00:54:38.989 --> 00:54:40.949
say to people is like, look, people, they're

00:54:40.949 --> 00:54:43.269
not making this up. They're not lying to me because

00:54:43.269 --> 00:54:46.130
I'd be able to tell. But in their mind, it's

00:54:46.130 --> 00:54:50.250
very real. So sometimes it's just taking, it's

00:54:50.250 --> 00:54:53.250
just offering comfort. Just lend a shoulder to

00:54:53.250 --> 00:54:55.670
cry on kind of thing. I'll go out to someone's

00:54:55.670 --> 00:54:57.269
house, have a cup of coffee at their kitchen

00:54:57.269 --> 00:55:00.880
table. talk to them uh i might go around the

00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:05.000
house and and do a blessing um and uh you know

00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:08.219
leave them with a saint benedict medal or a miraculous

00:55:08.219 --> 00:55:11.059
medal or something and i give them some homework

00:55:11.059 --> 00:55:14.659
to do and if someone's serious about wanting

00:55:14.659 --> 00:55:17.480
help they'll do exactly what i ask and that's

00:55:17.480 --> 00:55:19.880
one way we tell about if people aren't serious

00:55:19.880 --> 00:55:22.860
about it you know i've asked people look go back

00:55:22.860 --> 00:55:24.679
to over the last three years and just make a

00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:27.670
list of whatever you can remember And two weeks

00:55:27.670 --> 00:55:29.570
later, I'll talk to him again. Oh, you haven't

00:55:29.570 --> 00:55:31.369
done it yet. Well, then you really don't want

00:55:31.369 --> 00:55:34.090
my help. And you probably don't need my help.

00:55:34.369 --> 00:55:36.989
Some people need help, but it's not the kind

00:55:36.989 --> 00:55:40.710
I can provide, you know. And I'll try to steer

00:55:40.710 --> 00:55:44.159
them in the right direction. You probably have

00:55:44.159 --> 00:55:47.760
tons of people that contact you. So like you

00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:50.400
really, your time is very limited. So like for

00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:52.360
someone to come and try to fake something to

00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:55.119
you or try to act like they're there, there's

00:55:55.119 --> 00:55:57.019
something that they're not really waste a lot

00:55:57.019 --> 00:55:59.420
of your time. So you really don't have to do

00:55:59.420 --> 00:56:01.639
your due diligence, obviously. And I respect

00:56:01.639 --> 00:56:09.090
that completely. Yeah. Yeah. It's not all rainbows

00:56:09.090 --> 00:56:12.449
and sunshine. Sometimes dealing with people,

00:56:12.909 --> 00:56:17.050
you deal with them individually or as a whole.

00:56:18.070 --> 00:56:21.110
I would do is I interview the family independently

00:56:21.110 --> 00:56:28.150
and sometimes all together to see if the stories

00:56:28.150 --> 00:56:32.550
jive. We were on the phone for two hours the

00:56:32.550 --> 00:56:35.210
other night, some of my colleagues and I. talking

00:56:35.210 --> 00:56:38.150
to this gentleman that started out as I got a

00:56:38.150 --> 00:56:41.909
demonic issue and it turned into aliens and alien

00:56:41.909 --> 00:56:43.929
abduction. And he started talking about this,

00:56:43.929 --> 00:56:46.309
that and the other thing. So let's try to get

00:56:46.309 --> 00:56:49.389
to the root of the problem. And, you know, it

00:56:49.389 --> 00:56:54.050
turned into abandonment issues. My dad abandoned

00:56:54.050 --> 00:56:56.210
us when I was seven years old and this, that

00:56:56.210 --> 00:56:58.289
and the other thing. I definitely feel the guy's

00:56:58.289 --> 00:57:00.349
got an issue, but I don't think it's a paranormal

00:57:00.349 --> 00:57:04.559
issue. He's never spoken to a professional. I

00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:07.260
asked him if he spoke to a professional. He said

00:57:07.260 --> 00:57:11.719
no. He said he had some pictorial evidence. I

00:57:11.719 --> 00:57:13.440
asked him to send me the evidence. He wasn't

00:57:13.440 --> 00:57:16.840
comfortable sending it over the Internet or sharing

00:57:16.840 --> 00:57:19.599
it. I'm like, well, you know, I spent two hours

00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:21.900
on the phone with you and a couple of my colleagues,

00:57:22.039 --> 00:57:25.599
and, you know, we just went round robin, and

00:57:25.599 --> 00:57:28.119
we ended up back in the same place we started.

00:57:29.159 --> 00:57:31.860
And, you know, like, look, we really, you know,

00:57:31.900 --> 00:57:34.719
I said, you know, I think you could benefit from

00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:37.619
some psychiatric help, you know, or even talk

00:57:37.619 --> 00:57:39.400
to your priest. Oh, the priest won't talk to

00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:45.139
me. Have you tried? No. He says he's a devout

00:57:45.139 --> 00:57:47.480
Catholic. But, you know, I said, you know, talk

00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:50.679
to your priest, talk to psychiatrists, talk to

00:57:50.679 --> 00:57:55.800
your doctors. Not only had he not done any of

00:57:55.800 --> 00:58:00.309
that, he wasn't willing to do so. So you want

00:58:00.309 --> 00:58:03.369
my help? I'm giving you the best advice I can

00:58:03.369 --> 00:58:05.949
based on what you're telling me. And you're refusing

00:58:05.949 --> 00:58:08.409
to do it. What do you want me to do for you?

00:58:08.610 --> 00:58:11.829
Now I'm like, now I've wasted two hours of my

00:58:11.829 --> 00:58:14.409
time. My wife's not happy with me because that's

00:58:14.409 --> 00:58:16.170
two hours I could have taken her to a movie.

00:58:16.309 --> 00:58:19.829
And I'm not even kidding. My wife is a saint

00:58:19.829 --> 00:58:23.510
because I spend a lot of time away from her and

00:58:23.510 --> 00:58:25.510
the kids when they were younger. My kids are

00:58:25.510 --> 00:58:28.150
all adults now. But, you know, I spent a lot

00:58:28.150 --> 00:58:30.670
of time away from them working, helping others,

00:58:30.829 --> 00:58:33.989
you know, and it's very gratifying. And she I

00:58:33.989 --> 00:58:36.050
wouldn't be where I am today without her support.

00:58:36.769 --> 00:58:38.969
But I don't blame her when she gets upset at

00:58:38.969 --> 00:58:42.150
me sometimes because I'm out helping other people,

00:58:42.269 --> 00:58:45.309
but I'm neglecting them, you know, and that's

00:58:45.309 --> 00:58:48.269
not fair. So if someone's wasting my time like

00:58:48.269 --> 00:58:51.369
that, I'm not going to be happy about it. Yeah.

00:58:52.170 --> 00:58:54.230
I was on the phone, you know, with my friend

00:58:54.230 --> 00:58:57.809
Tom and Stacia and Father Bob. And we had a conversation

00:58:57.809 --> 00:58:59.789
afterwards. I'm like, this is just a waste of

00:58:59.789 --> 00:59:03.610
time. The guy's not listening. Yeah. Very easily

00:59:03.610 --> 00:59:07.010
triggered. You know, I had mentioned to him,

00:59:07.070 --> 00:59:09.070
I said, well, I firmly believe that you believe

00:59:09.070 --> 00:59:11.510
this. And he's like, well, wait a minute. Did

00:59:11.510 --> 00:59:13.889
you just say that I believe this? I go, yeah,

00:59:13.929 --> 00:59:16.250
that's exactly what I said. You believe that

00:59:16.250 --> 00:59:18.469
that's really happened to you. I said, whether

00:59:18.469 --> 00:59:21.250
it did or not, I don't know. I said, I don't

00:59:21.250 --> 00:59:24.230
know you from a hole in the wall. Yeah. And the

00:59:24.230 --> 00:59:26.909
brain can visually make that happen. Like they

00:59:26.909 --> 00:59:29.349
can visually make you, your brain will actually,

00:59:29.449 --> 00:59:31.849
after a while, it'll actually trick you into

00:59:31.849 --> 00:59:34.389
believing what you're believing, you know, after

00:59:34.389 --> 00:59:36.949
a long enough time. So, you know, obviously you're

00:59:36.949 --> 00:59:38.510
absolutely right about that. He could have been

00:59:38.510 --> 00:59:40.889
definitely believing that. Well, the mind is

00:59:40.889 --> 00:59:44.849
a very powerful thing. One of the first questions

00:59:44.849 --> 00:59:47.530
I ask people is how much TV do you watch? how

00:59:47.530 --> 00:59:49.269
many of these youtube channels do you watch because

00:59:49.269 --> 00:59:51.849
the seed sometimes not only has been planted

00:59:51.849 --> 00:59:55.269
it's been nurtured and watered and fed it's like

00:59:55.269 --> 00:59:58.329
it's psychosomatic you know you've watched some

00:59:58.329 --> 01:00:01.150
of this so much of this crap that now you're

01:00:01.150 --> 01:00:04.050
starting to believe you know for example you

01:00:04.050 --> 01:00:06.449
sit there all by yourself at two o 'clock in

01:00:06.449 --> 01:00:08.389
the morning in the pitch dark watching the exorcist

01:00:08.389 --> 01:00:13.809
how many people have done that yeah but but the

01:00:13.809 --> 01:00:16.599
thing is when that movie's over It's time to

01:00:16.599 --> 01:00:18.840
go to bed and you're all alone. Every little

01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:21.519
creak and noise that you hear, you're going to

01:00:21.519 --> 01:00:24.159
start looking around like, oh, do I have a demon

01:00:24.159 --> 01:00:29.179
here? Absolutely. I'm kidding. But seriously,

01:00:29.360 --> 01:00:33.300
it gets in your head. And then I always tell

01:00:33.300 --> 01:00:37.320
people, always look for a natural solution to

01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:41.389
an issue. Instead of the supernatural. i mean

01:00:41.389 --> 01:00:43.909
because what is paranormal para means above above

01:00:43.909 --> 01:00:46.829
which is normal or outside the scope of the scientific

01:00:46.829 --> 01:00:50.989
explanation all right but not too much is if

01:00:50.989 --> 01:00:52.989
you really look into it i hear scratching in

01:00:52.989 --> 01:00:55.449
the walls and growling and we'll do some digging

01:00:55.449 --> 01:00:57.909
maybe you got squirrels or raccoons in the attic

01:00:57.909 --> 01:01:00.969
or something you got mice or rats and i've had

01:01:00.969 --> 01:01:04.250
cases where we found evidence of that you know

01:01:04.250 --> 01:01:07.110
um but but look for a natural solution but a

01:01:07.110 --> 01:01:09.760
lot of people out there don't want that. They

01:01:09.760 --> 01:01:12.079
want it so bad to be paranormal because they

01:01:12.079 --> 01:01:15.139
think it's cool. Yeah, baby, it's cool. No, it's

01:01:15.139 --> 01:01:17.599
not cool. For someone that's really afflicted

01:01:17.599 --> 01:01:21.019
by something horrible, it's not cool. And that's

01:01:21.019 --> 01:01:25.179
insulting to me and it's insulting to them. Absolutely.

01:01:26.300 --> 01:01:28.460
And you want to know, I want to end on that right

01:01:28.460 --> 01:01:30.300
there because you're absolutely right on that.

01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:33.949
Oh, we have time already? Yeah. I tell you what,

01:01:33.989 --> 01:01:35.590
we've got to have you come back on, Joe, because

01:01:35.590 --> 01:01:38.170
we've got so much to talk about. I tell you,

01:01:38.170 --> 01:01:40.150
our whole podcast, what we believe in is about

01:01:40.150 --> 01:01:42.630
going in with respect and dealing with these

01:01:42.630 --> 01:01:45.349
spirits with respect because, you know, obviously

01:01:45.349 --> 01:01:47.889
we're not equipped to be doing provocation in

01:01:47.889 --> 01:01:50.150
any way. So we keep that to the professionals

01:01:50.150 --> 01:01:53.789
like yourself. But, you know, we obviously respect.

01:01:54.670 --> 01:01:56.610
You know, I feel you. I know you don't want to

01:01:56.610 --> 01:01:58.769
do it. You know, I totally understand it. It's

01:01:58.769 --> 01:02:01.449
dangerous, you know, definitely. But I appreciate

01:02:01.449 --> 01:02:06.170
your time, man, so much. Thank you. I had a great

01:02:06.170 --> 01:02:07.809
time. I appreciate it. You guys are so gracious.

01:02:08.289 --> 01:02:11.369
I'd love to come back on. Let me know. I definitely

01:02:11.369 --> 01:02:14.690
will. All right, guys. Thank you so much. I appreciate

01:02:14.690 --> 01:02:18.070
it. All right. Take care, Joe. All right. Bye,

01:02:18.170 --> 01:02:24.389
guys. Take care. Bye. Wow, babe. What did you

01:02:24.389 --> 01:02:28.670
think? I love Joe. I don't know. He's awesome.

01:02:28.849 --> 01:02:31.469
His energy is amazing. He's so knowledgeable.

01:02:31.909 --> 01:02:34.210
I mean, there's just so much I could say, honestly.

01:02:34.429 --> 01:02:37.610
I mean, if you've never met him or talked to

01:02:37.610 --> 01:02:40.489
him in person, I mean, he's just, he's amazing.

01:02:40.809 --> 01:02:44.929
He really is. Yeah. We got to talk at the paranormal

01:02:44.929 --> 01:02:49.329
thing that we did together, this conference thing

01:02:49.329 --> 01:02:52.329
that I talked about. And it was cool to meet

01:02:52.329 --> 01:02:54.969
him when I first met him. And he's been just

01:02:54.969 --> 01:02:57.889
a great friend and everything all the way around.

01:02:57.949 --> 01:03:00.429
Just a great person. I mean, the work that he

01:03:00.429 --> 01:03:03.070
does is very serious. And him expressing what

01:03:03.070 --> 01:03:06.289
he's expressing tonight is so important to show

01:03:06.289 --> 01:03:09.099
our viewers this because. They really need to

01:03:09.099 --> 01:03:11.119
understand that this is serious. This is not

01:03:11.119 --> 01:03:13.719
a joke. This field is not a joke. It's something

01:03:13.719 --> 01:03:15.760
serious and a lot of bad things can happen to

01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:18.099
you if you're not really equipped for what you

01:03:18.099 --> 01:03:20.860
are doing. Right. And it's not even just that,

01:03:20.960 --> 01:03:23.260
like the amount of research that actually goes

01:03:23.260 --> 01:03:25.980
into handling the case, like the kind of cases

01:03:25.980 --> 01:03:28.820
that he handles. It's like he said, it's months

01:03:28.820 --> 01:03:33.099
to years. And I mean, people think you can go

01:03:33.099 --> 01:03:35.039
in and get it accomplished in, you know, a couple

01:03:35.039 --> 01:03:41.639
hours. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But thank you guys

01:03:41.639 --> 01:03:44.099
so much for tuning in for another episode of

01:03:44.099 --> 01:03:46.039
talking with the source. We truly appreciate

01:03:46.039 --> 01:03:50.820
you guys always. Thank you so much. Everyone

01:03:50.820 --> 01:03:55.519
listening on Spotify, Apple music, everything,

01:03:55.679 --> 01:03:58.940
just Google podcasts, all that. Thank you so

01:03:58.940 --> 01:04:01.619
much for listening. We truly appreciate the support.

01:04:01.820 --> 01:04:05.010
Keep tuning in. We have all new episodes. We

01:04:05.010 --> 01:04:07.170
have an episode tomorrow with Phantom Detectives,

01:04:07.170 --> 01:04:10.409
so tune in for that. We will be putting a post

01:04:10.409 --> 01:04:12.750
up to let you know what time it is, so we'll

01:04:12.750 --> 01:04:14.590
be excited to have them on. But thank you guys

01:04:14.590 --> 01:04:17.389
so much for watching, and we will see you soon.

01:04:33.019 --> 01:04:35.980
This is the area where apparently you can hear

01:04:35.980 --> 01:04:39.719
the whistling of Art or Arthur, the man that

01:04:39.719 --> 01:04:43.199
died of a heart attack, constructing this part

01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:49.440
of the lift locks. We actually went right down

01:04:49.440 --> 01:04:53.480
there. It's just trees. The biggest animal we're

01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:59.920
going to get in here is a badger or deer. If

01:04:59.920 --> 01:05:06.829
it was a deer, we'd be seeing it. Did you live

01:05:06.829 --> 01:05:07.210
here?