WEBVTT

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Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Episode

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3 of the Blockchain Bay Podcast. My name is Chris,

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and today Joe is interviewing BFG Neil, who is

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a well -known member in the Helium community.

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With his project TrackPack, it aims to give a

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real -world use case for the Helium network.

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With TrackPack, you can track assets across the

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world as long as you are within distance of a

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Helium miner. It's a really cool project, and

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I hope you guys do enjoy this episode. Welcome

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back to another episode. We have special guests

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today from across the pond. We're going to do

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a two -hour... a two -hour live stream first

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we're starting off with bfg neil and then later

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on we're going to have some guys from crypto

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slate that's the podcast that i did a week ago

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they'll be coming on the show to talk about what

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they're doing but uh neil let's start it off

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with you i think you're a familiar face i think

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everyone knows me at this point right hope so

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anyway i'm trying to be like that anyway yeah

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so thanks for coming on now i I've seen your

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post on Twitter about your product that you developed

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on the Helium network called TrackPack. Of course,

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I have one of my own, which I made a video for,

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so thank you for that. I like the product. I

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like what you're doing here. You have a lot of

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experience in the industry, so just give us a

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background on yourself, what you've done as far

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as you're a dev, and then you got involved with

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Helium, and then why you decided to go forward

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with this project. Sure. So, you know, I've been

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a developer for a number of years and the last

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business that I run was software as a service.

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So when I sold that business, I was looking into

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the world of what's next, you know, for me. And

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I obviously looked at blockchain technology.

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I originally built an Ethereum miner following

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Voscoin. You know, he was great in the time when

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GPU miners were big and it was great advice and

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help getting to that point where I could build

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a rig. At that time, I heard about helium and

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the low -powered nature of it. When you get to

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GPU mining, you realize you use so much power

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and so much of your profit goes towards the power

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usage. Helium sounded like this amazing thing

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that was low -powered. It was also solving some

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of the problems that Bitcoin has, true decentralization.

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It was putting a node in everyone's houses. you

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can do that but to earn from doing that you need

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to put an asic miner in right and it just doesn't

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make sense like i love the idea of a raspberry

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pi that could support more than one project and

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that's a thing i would love to see in the future

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for helium you know support more than one project

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on these nodes because we have this global decentralized

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network of independent nodes in people's houses

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which is perfect but yeah so i um coming to the

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healing world and obviously when i get into a

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new project i studied the hell out of it so i

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started using mappers to um work out how good

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my coverage was you know i had some success locally

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my first three hot spots were 350 meters 400

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meters from each other so they were working pretty

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well but then then my friend was two miles up

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the road and i was like oh right you know but

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i'd love you to get into this project with me

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and uh you know i had some difficulties getting

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that distance so what i what i then did was like

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right look at my setup let's get a mapper uh

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let's look at the sigma quality does What does

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the difference of a meter in height make? Indoors,

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outdoors, cable, antennas, everything got really

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deep. And at that time, one thing I noticed was

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the relay thing. Hotspots, when they first come

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out, you needed to have ports inbound and outbound

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for them to work, for them to be able to talk.

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And if you didn't have... the ports open, you

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would never beacon. So I noticed that Helium

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wasn't showing on the site and we started up

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a service called Helium Status. And that's where

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it showed you the relay and a bit more information

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about it. And yeah, at that point, we had like

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50 ,000 subscribers. It was quite a big website

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and quite a lot of people were using it at the

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time. It was definitely the option. Yeah, there

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was a lot of features. I remember it. I used

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it quite a bit. I told people go there before,

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you know, and then we had light hotspots and

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all that went away. You didn't really have a

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need. Exactly. And it was a great product. Yeah,

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I met the other two business partners of TrackPack

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at that point as well. Rob is a cloud specialist

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and a backend specialist. So we worked as a really

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good team and that was our first project. I mean,

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for that project, that was the project that I

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learned React Native, which is React and React

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Native, which is what TrackPack's written in.

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So I'd done other programming languages before,

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but they're a bit old school PHP and JavaScript

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and, you know, it was last world. Here's my first

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project with React. There's nothing better than

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diving into a project to learn a bit of coding

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and the language because you have a goal in mind

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and you can build it. That's what Helium Status

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was. When they moved to light hotspots, that

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was the point where we needed to pivot. What

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do we do next? We talked about doing hotspot

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firmware. definitely do that in the future if

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people are interested um setting up firmware

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that enables you to run other projects as well

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sort of what cotx is doing but it would be at

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a subscription obviously we would need to build

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something where we would eat for you know be

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able to eat by building it so there would be

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a small subscription to it we've talked about

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it but we decided at the time um that the most

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helpful thing that we could do for the network

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was build an app that is so easy to use that

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you could actually go to your neighbor and say,

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here, track your cat, track your car, track anything.

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And they wouldn't have to know about cryptocurrency.

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They wouldn't have to know about Helium console

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and adding devices and decoders and integrations.

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And so with the TrackPack app, you literally

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just scan the QR code on the back of a tab. it's

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added to your account you start using it so every

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tab and every tracker comes with 30 days of free

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service as well so you can start using it straight

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away as soon as it arrives and and really experience

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what the power of the network is you know how

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big it is and how good it is which we need more

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of, right? That's one thing at the moment. There's

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not many companies that are building solutions

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like we are and as quick as we are as well. So

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what we built was in response to the feedback

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from the people, you know, saying, this is too

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complex. I need something simple. You know, DataCake,

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UberDots, my devices, they're all great systems,

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but they do require some knowledge, right? You

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need to... implemented to build that kind of

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system for you whereas track pack you could literally

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just buy one of the trackers and get started

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with it and that was that was the aim basically

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so it was a bit of education for the network

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you know i don't have a background in in asset

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tracking i built a business from knowing what

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you could do on helium um which is a different

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way around for for me the most would do it they

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they see the power of the helium network and

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how you can do long range low power sensors and

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then take their existing systems to build onto

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it we're a brand new company built from from

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the network it was it was my next business you

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know Yeah, and I like that. That's something

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I've always emphasized. Now, I admire all the

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people who are doing the do -it -yourself projects

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on the network and showing others how to get

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involved and do the really techie stuff, but

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that's really not what we want to show to the

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broader Helium audience who's just trying to

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figure out what this network is for. I mean,

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with the businesses developing on this network,

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it should be as easy as your app. You scan the...

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QR code into the app that supports it. Everything's

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taken care of on the back end. If you need extra

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features, you go through the API, which is one

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of the features that you have. with your product

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yeah and that's that's one thing we're hearing

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from a lot of companies is that we've developed

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a full system that's white labeled as well so

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we can build apps for them but at the end of

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the day they just want access to the data we

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have an api and a lot of what we've seen before

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is you know here's a little project you can run

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go start up a vps and you can install it but

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again that's too much for most people to to understand

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so What we've built is a great base for any sensor.

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Right now, that only sensor is asset tracking

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and sensors on a map. But we have a base of the

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system in place that's, you know, could take

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a million users tomorrow. But we could also change

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it to show. temperature, humidity, manned down

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detection for tilt detection. We can do anything.

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It's just right now we're a small team, so we're

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focused on one sensor. A big part of what I'm

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hearing from feedback from people on the network

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right now that are building for it is there's

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a lack of investment. And they've got these great

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ideas and I hear them all the time. And it's

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so easy to get excited about an idea in Helium.

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But there's no funding for it. There are grants

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if you want to open source everything. But if

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you want to do something commercially, they can't

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help you. They can't help you with the grant.

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So having the investors on the network is a bit

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of a point, a sticking point for us as well.

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Right now, we've got some big ideas, but they're

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just a little out of reach because we need the

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funding to do it. And that's the story over and

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over that I'm hearing from a lot of folks. Yeah.

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And one of the reasons I like having people like

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you on, and as well as the Australians, although

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it was something more political, the point is

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that there's people who want to build on this

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network, who have solutions, who are going to

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spend the time and investment into a product

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that is going to utilize this global. this global

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LoRaWAN network. I mean, I'm sure you have better

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ways to spend your time and your money if this

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thing was just a joke for mining crypto. I don't,

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I'm not of that opinion. Now, of course, there's

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always going to be some dissent in the comments

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as to all the other solutions that are available.

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And I also drove this point home about the utility

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of LoRaWAN. how long range it is and how resilient

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it is. But I guess, can you give us the benefit

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of using one of your devices over something like

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an Apple AirTag? For those in the audience who

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are just hearing about this, they're probably

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wondering the same thing. Sure. So an Apple AirTag

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is a Bluetooth low energy device, so it needs

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ring doorbells, other iPhones. So I always say

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that it's great if you are in a town in a city

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center or or the suburbs. Generally, you'll find

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iPhones and ring cameras and things. But when

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you start going out into the sticks, it will

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just get lost. What I always say is that you

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can lose your bag on a train, for example, if

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that train goes to the depot and there's no iPhone

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devices, you wouldn't notice that. Once it returned

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the next day, you would be able to find it, but

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it'd be a long time before you realize. Whereas

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these devices are always on, so wherever there's

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helium coverage, there is service for this. So

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you know yourself, so if you put a... hot spot

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that's really well on the peak of the hill you

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could probably cover 40 kilometers 50 kilometers

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for sensors where an iphone's only going to do

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a few meters in front of it so you have to make

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sure you you're in range of one of those things

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for it to work whereas helium's just got the

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opportunity for bigger coverage Yeah, the technology

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is great. I mean, it's not too bad at the moment.

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You've seen what the tabs are like, right? They're

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not too bad. They're pretty good. But we're talking

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about the future of it now, the next stage for

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it. So that's what we launched today. Last night,

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sorry, an article about how we can ditch the

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GPS chip and use trilateration and AI to basically

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reduce the size of these things. Here's an example

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of what we've built. For example, this is a...

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This is our new tracker. We wanted a base model

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to work from so we can control the firmware.

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But you can see on the back of it, that is the

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GPS antenna. I'm going to disconnect my VPN,

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just continue explaining, and I'll be right back.

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Sure. Sure. So yeah, so this is a tracker we

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built. It's very, very small, but you have to

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remember this is just a tracker. We need a battery

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that connects to it as well and then a case as

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well. So quite a lot of that footprint is the

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charging circuit. And obviously there's a thick

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GPS antenna on the back of it there. Really,

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if we could lose that GPS chip. we could half

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the size of it, put it with a coin cell, and

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we would literally have an Apple AirTag -sized

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device, you know, with a coin cell battery on

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the back that could be replaced. But the thing

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is that we can have that thing last for a month

00:12:56.840 --> 00:12:59.240
and work all over the world. That's amazing.

00:13:00.490 --> 00:13:03.470
What we do for that basically is we use the signal

00:13:03.470 --> 00:13:06.830
strength and multiple packets enabled to work

00:13:06.830 --> 00:13:09.669
out where it is in the world. And then we run

00:13:09.669 --> 00:13:12.590
it through a TensorFlow AI model to precisely

00:13:12.590 --> 00:13:15.009
pick it, and we can return an accurate location.

00:13:15.950 --> 00:13:18.309
There's an article up on Medium. It's on our

00:13:18.309 --> 00:13:21.649
Twitter, which is just track back. if you want

00:13:21.649 --> 00:13:23.649
to follow us on there. And you can see in the

00:13:23.649 --> 00:13:25.250
article that we've got some predictions in there

00:13:25.250 --> 00:13:28.389
that you can see. And yeah, it's crazily accurate

00:13:28.389 --> 00:13:31.409
right now. So it could mean that we can shrink

00:13:31.409 --> 00:13:34.169
the size of even this device, which is, you know,

00:13:34.169 --> 00:13:37.210
fairly small compared to other devices, you know,

00:13:37.210 --> 00:13:41.169
already. We could then half this as well, which

00:13:41.169 --> 00:13:45.139
is, you know, just crazy. Yeah, it's a fun time.

00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.360
It's really nice getting into a project for Helium

00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:52.100
that seems to be making so much difference. We've

00:13:52.100 --> 00:13:53.799
got some pretty big names that want to work with

00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:56.600
us, that want to use this technology. One of

00:13:56.600 --> 00:13:58.919
the biggest ones at the moment is Brompton Cycles.

00:13:59.500 --> 00:14:02.600
They make these folding commuter bikes. So people

00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:05.120
will, you know, ride them to the train station,

00:14:05.179 --> 00:14:07.019
get on the train to work and then ride them to

00:14:07.019 --> 00:14:08.960
their place of work. So they're not, you know,

00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:12.289
they're in city centres. you know, in the middle

00:14:12.289 --> 00:14:14.070
of a field somewhere, it's like the perfect use

00:14:14.070 --> 00:14:16.629
case. And what they're doing is they're putting

00:14:16.629 --> 00:14:19.950
the trackers under the seat. And what they're

00:14:19.950 --> 00:14:23.230
using it for is anonymous usage statistics. So

00:14:23.230 --> 00:14:27.500
they have these. rental lockers all over london

00:14:27.500 --> 00:14:30.299
and these are these are on these trackers are

00:14:30.299 --> 00:14:32.820
on those bikes so what they can see and what

00:14:32.820 --> 00:14:34.879
they can give to the councils is usage statistics

00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:38.159
so they can know oh well maybe we're best putting

00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:40.559
a locker in here it's best spending our time

00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:42.740
putting more more lockers over here and this

00:14:42.740 --> 00:14:44.679
is how the usage is so they can report all of

00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:47.500
this and they've They just love the data. They've

00:14:47.500 --> 00:14:49.480
been trying to do this kind of system for six

00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:52.139
years, but every time they've done it, the power

00:14:52.139 --> 00:14:54.000
requirement is nearly impossible to run a SIM

00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:57.279
card -based tracker. But then if they could,

00:14:57.460 --> 00:15:00.019
the cost for installation and the gateways to

00:15:00.019 --> 00:15:03.240
support everything is just astronomical. Whereas

00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:07.700
for Helium, we do it for $40 a tracker. So it's

00:15:07.700 --> 00:15:14.950
just almost 10 times cheaper for them. And what's

00:15:14.950 --> 00:15:17.330
neat is that even if you don't have coverage

00:15:17.330 --> 00:15:21.509
in some location for whatever reason, maybe there's

00:15:21.509 --> 00:15:24.970
not hotspots there or you have sensors down in

00:15:24.970 --> 00:15:27.389
the basement or in a hard -to -reach area, you

00:15:27.389 --> 00:15:30.929
could always throw in a data -only hotspot where

00:15:30.929 --> 00:15:32.929
it's already configured for the helium network.

00:15:33.429 --> 00:15:36.590
It's fairly cheap. They're about $150, give or

00:15:36.590 --> 00:15:40.639
take. The onboarding process is simple. They

00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:42.860
don't participate in proof of coverage, so you'd

00:15:42.860 --> 00:15:44.639
only earn from what you make of data credits.

00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:50.519
However, it is very convenient of a setup for

00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:52.559
if you're actually deploying this stuff in the

00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:57.730
field. So, yeah. Go ahead. You're dead right.

00:15:57.889 --> 00:15:59.809
I mean, that's why we always say to it, we've

00:15:59.809 --> 00:16:01.950
got some trials with companies and they're saying,

00:16:01.990 --> 00:16:03.990
you know, every now and again, oh, you know,

00:16:04.009 --> 00:16:06.490
I'm losing a little bit of coverage here delivering

00:16:06.490 --> 00:16:08.450
to a depot. And we were saying to them, you know,

00:16:08.470 --> 00:16:11.610
one well -placed antenna can do 50, 60 kilometers

00:16:11.610 --> 00:16:14.409
away from that depot of coverage. So you can

00:16:14.409 --> 00:16:17.090
fill in those gaps really easy. The one thing

00:16:17.090 --> 00:16:18.470
I say at the moment is, though, there are some

00:16:18.470 --> 00:16:21.330
pretty good deals out there for fall. for um

00:16:21.330 --> 00:16:24.649
hotspots so they're almost as cheap as data hotspots

00:16:24.649 --> 00:16:26.990
at the moment and uh another good one is to check

00:16:26.990 --> 00:16:28.830
ebay and things you can actually get them quite

00:16:28.830 --> 00:16:31.309
cheap so depends on what you want to do if it's

00:16:31.309 --> 00:16:34.110
for data only obviously you just not messing

00:16:34.110 --> 00:16:37.049
with poc and mean less goes wrong but i always

00:16:37.049 --> 00:16:38.409
say you know you might as well learn a little

00:16:38.409 --> 00:16:43.250
bit yeah just make sure if you're gonna buy a

00:16:43.250 --> 00:16:45.190
hotspot second hand it's not on the deny list

00:16:45.190 --> 00:16:48.009
yeah i don't know yeah how you deal with that

00:16:48.009 --> 00:16:52.169
it's taken care of uh at this point but the easiest

00:16:52.169 --> 00:16:54.309
way is to ask the buyer for the hotspot name

00:16:54.309 --> 00:16:57.850
run it through um explorer and check it i mean

00:16:57.850 --> 00:17:00.250
the great thing about ebay is you have the buyer's

00:17:00.250 --> 00:17:02.850
protection so you generally always win as a buyer

00:17:02.850 --> 00:17:10.509
don't you so a question for you can i can you

00:17:10.509 --> 00:17:14.309
put one on a dog yeah i mean so i actually run

00:17:14.309 --> 00:17:20.390
come Go ahead. I run one of these on the dog

00:17:20.390 --> 00:17:22.289
at the moment. It's a bit big, but I think of

00:17:22.289 --> 00:17:24.529
it as a testing device. What we've really built

00:17:24.529 --> 00:17:27.430
is a small tracker that we can work into a collar,

00:17:27.509 --> 00:17:29.849
basically. This device here is a little big.

00:17:29.990 --> 00:17:33.650
A lot of it's a charging circuit. There's obviously

00:17:33.650 --> 00:17:37.710
pins for programming and things. So once we get

00:17:37.710 --> 00:17:39.730
this size down and once we get the finalizer,

00:17:39.730 --> 00:17:42.170
we can put it into a collar. The other option

00:17:42.170 --> 00:17:44.089
that we wanted to really explore is harnesses

00:17:44.089 --> 00:17:45.910
as well because there's a bit more room for...

00:17:47.210 --> 00:17:49.710
the tech in one of those side pouches of a harness.

00:17:49.869 --> 00:17:52.710
So we're definitely wanting to cover dogs and

00:17:52.710 --> 00:17:55.250
cats. We want to get this small enough that you

00:17:55.250 --> 00:17:58.150
would be able to put it on a cat. The thing that's

00:17:58.150 --> 00:18:00.029
holding us back at the moment is the GPS is so

00:18:00.029 --> 00:18:03.210
powerful that it drains the battery. If we can

00:18:03.210 --> 00:18:05.470
get rid of the GPS and use this trilateration

00:18:05.470 --> 00:18:08.089
system that we've built, we can have coin cell

00:18:08.089 --> 00:18:10.109
batteries. So they will be small. They will be

00:18:10.109 --> 00:18:12.150
tiny. And the cat would just look like it's got

00:18:12.150 --> 00:18:23.309
a tiny pendant on it, you know? Yeah, so I'll

00:18:23.309 --> 00:18:25.750
ask you a couple of questions. Well, first, what

00:18:25.750 --> 00:18:28.789
other type of products do you have, if you can

00:18:28.789 --> 00:18:32.650
share, do you have in mind for track pack? Will

00:18:32.650 --> 00:18:34.970
you be developing any other type of sensory devices

00:18:34.970 --> 00:18:38.130
for other needs? Or are you just developing specifically

00:18:38.130 --> 00:18:42.309
trackers right now in all shapes and sizes? Yeah,

00:18:42.349 --> 00:18:45.269
right now we're just focusing on trackers. Obviously

00:18:45.269 --> 00:18:48.490
there's a lot of changes that some people need.

00:18:48.609 --> 00:18:50.289
We've been asked about temperature readings.

00:18:51.109 --> 00:18:53.910
Also about things like man down, so tilt detection

00:18:53.910 --> 00:18:57.349
on helmets and things like that. So it's just

00:18:57.349 --> 00:18:59.809
all basically what I call functional tracking.

00:19:00.130 --> 00:19:02.450
It's basically tracking, which is just working

00:19:02.450 --> 00:19:04.009
out the location, but then there's functions

00:19:04.009 --> 00:19:06.410
on top of that. I want to know if the temperature

00:19:06.410 --> 00:19:08.950
goes, or I want to know if the tilt sensor's

00:19:08.950 --> 00:19:11.930
gone, or I want a push button to notify me if

00:19:11.930 --> 00:19:14.269
someone's pushed it that they need help, things

00:19:14.269 --> 00:19:16.670
like that. That's what we're mainly focused on

00:19:16.670 --> 00:19:18.990
at the moment. We have kind of like an internal

00:19:18.990 --> 00:19:21.900
division called a track pack. labs. The idea

00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:25.279
there is that I tried to source feedback the

00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:26.819
other day on Twitter just to see what people

00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:30.880
want to exist on Helium. If we can put a door

00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.700
sensor app out there and it helps people onboard

00:19:33.700 --> 00:19:36.140
door sensors and it takes us a couple of days

00:19:36.140 --> 00:19:38.500
to put that kind of thing live, we're all for

00:19:38.500 --> 00:19:41.779
it. If people have use cases, please come and

00:19:41.779 --> 00:19:44.400
talk to me. We're happy to help. If there's a

00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:46.039
business model there and we can see the clear

00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:48.299
potential for it, we will help as much as we

00:19:48.299 --> 00:19:51.599
can to get that thing live. Right now, Helium

00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:55.140
needs data usage, not full stories about who's

00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:59.039
using the network. We took our time before we

00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:02.240
mentioned Brompton. We have live sensors with

00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:05.140
them. We didn't want to kind of give off that

00:20:05.140 --> 00:20:09.259
example that Lime or any of the other ones gave.

00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:12.019
We actually have usage from these companies.

00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:15.380
We have sensors live now, and things are growing.

00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:19.559
We've got a lot of interest. Yeah, no, that's

00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:24.180
awesome. Lost my train of thought here. There

00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:26.640
was something else I was going to say on that

00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:29.140
note. Oh, yeah. Within the Helium community,

00:20:29.299 --> 00:20:32.720
I mean, what is part of what I guess what's special

00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:37.759
about crypto projects in general, but something

00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:41.200
that is kind of cutting edge in its own way,

00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:44.599
you would classify Heliums as Tippin's, I guess,

00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:49.259
Web3 potentially. Regardless, you have people

00:20:49.259 --> 00:20:52.660
who stood up a bunch of hotspots or helium miners

00:20:52.660 --> 00:20:56.119
for this network. Now you have a group of people

00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:58.799
inside who are saying, hey, reach out to us.

00:20:59.019 --> 00:21:02.240
We can help you design solutions. We can help

00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:04.740
you build. We can build them and provide them

00:21:04.740 --> 00:21:07.960
to you. You just got to let us know what you

00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:11.539
want, which is always neat. It's really a community

00:21:11.539 --> 00:21:15.490
crowdsourced effort. Exactly. And I couldn't

00:21:15.490 --> 00:21:18.829
have got where I did before the Helium community.

00:21:19.230 --> 00:21:21.390
There's a guy that's very special to me, Jazz

00:21:21.390 --> 00:21:24.970
Williams. He was helping me write to coders and

00:21:24.970 --> 00:21:26.930
things and work out what I needed to send and

00:21:26.930 --> 00:21:30.170
how I formatted everything. I didn't know this

00:21:30.170 --> 00:21:32.470
before. I've never worked with sensors before.

00:21:32.769 --> 00:21:35.789
And I've got to the stage now where we as a company

00:21:35.789 --> 00:21:38.250
are building hardware and writing firmware and

00:21:38.250 --> 00:21:40.589
that we have AI prediction models and things.

00:21:41.150 --> 00:21:43.109
I didn't know this technology before and it was

00:21:43.109 --> 00:21:44.769
only through the help of my peers I've been able

00:21:44.769 --> 00:21:47.150
to get so far. So, you know, that's a big thing

00:21:47.150 --> 00:21:50.269
that with Trackpack that we wanted to do is the

00:21:50.269 --> 00:21:53.250
whole system's white labeled. So you can install

00:21:53.250 --> 00:21:55.490
it, run it in your own business. All you would

00:21:55.490 --> 00:21:58.230
need to do is put up a promotional website. Maybe,

00:21:58.289 --> 00:22:00.250
you know, if you wanted to track ATVs and you

00:22:00.250 --> 00:22:02.589
wanted to start an ATV tracking business, make

00:22:02.589 --> 00:22:05.390
sure you have relevant content about ATVs. Do

00:22:05.390 --> 00:22:07.730
your research on what tracker fits the ATV and

00:22:07.730 --> 00:22:10.519
say why it's so good for the ATV. talk about

00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:12.319
the features that are particularly useful for

00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:14.940
them and start a business and use it through

00:22:14.940 --> 00:22:17.720
Helium and a bit of money with us. I want to

00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:20.259
help the community grow and I want to help data

00:22:20.259 --> 00:22:22.519
usage grow. So we can only do that together.

00:22:22.940 --> 00:22:27.359
And it's one big thing that hotspot owners need

00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:29.220
to realize. And I think people are waking up

00:22:29.220 --> 00:22:31.700
to the idea that you're never going to learn

00:22:31.700 --> 00:22:34.779
a lot from the data transfer of one sensor. But

00:22:34.779 --> 00:22:37.460
the power of us all having sensors will mean

00:22:37.460 --> 00:22:40.460
that our price of our HNT will rise, right? So

00:22:40.460 --> 00:22:42.900
even though you may think that one sensor will

00:22:42.900 --> 00:22:45.279
never earn you that much, what you're earning

00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:48.240
in POC now will be worth more if we all grab

00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:51.519
sensors, right? There must be at least 150 ,000

00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:53.799
of us owners, hotspot owners, right? It must

00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:56.380
be more than that now. If we all bought a sensor,

00:22:56.539 --> 00:23:00.339
we'd have 150 ,000 on there, which is way more

00:23:00.339 --> 00:23:08.569
than what it is now. yeah potentially potentially

00:23:08.569 --> 00:23:11.349
yeah well it'll probably double the number maybe

00:23:11.349 --> 00:23:13.349
exactly that's the whole point i don't know you

00:23:13.349 --> 00:23:15.130
can't really tell the exact number of sensors

00:23:15.130 --> 00:23:18.289
on the on the network but there last time um

00:23:18.289 --> 00:23:21.849
we got a roundabout number there was i thought

00:23:21.849 --> 00:23:24.950
over a hundred thousand sensors on the network

00:23:24.950 --> 00:23:29.619
at this point in time well It's difficult because

00:23:29.619 --> 00:23:31.980
we don't know roaming providers, how many sensors

00:23:31.980 --> 00:23:34.900
they have. But one stat I do know is that roaming

00:23:34.900 --> 00:23:37.420
is the largest data user on the network now.

00:23:37.579 --> 00:23:40.460
So there are more people roaming from using other

00:23:40.460 --> 00:23:44.200
networks than there are helium sensors. So there

00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:46.480
are a few and they are growing, but it's just

00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:51.039
at the moment more is coming from existing. Can

00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:54.039
you break that down to the audience with what

00:23:54.039 --> 00:23:56.839
you mean by roaming, specifically on LoRaWAN?

00:23:57.309 --> 00:24:00.829
right yeah exactly so there are networks that

00:24:00.829 --> 00:24:04.000
exist like senate um Utility, I think, is one.

00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:07.019
And there's another few. And basically, they

00:24:07.019 --> 00:24:09.920
enable roaming on Helium. So if you're not in

00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:12.400
range of one of the Senate gateways, it will

00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:14.579
roam over Helium and they will pay Helium for

00:24:14.579 --> 00:24:17.619
that data usage. So most of the time when they're

00:24:17.619 --> 00:24:20.440
installing an area, they'll install a Senate

00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:23.380
sensor. But oftentimes when the sensor moves

00:24:23.380 --> 00:24:25.579
like an asset tracker, it will roam over Helium.

00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:29.079
And what's happened right now is that roaming

00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:33.960
has overtaken. plain sense helium sensors so

00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:37.380
there are more sensors from other networks and

00:24:37.380 --> 00:24:39.500
there are helium adding more more credits and

00:24:39.500 --> 00:24:43.200
more you spending more money so yeah which makes

00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:46.859
sense that is this big step that is a huge step

00:24:46.859 --> 00:24:49.119
i mean there are there are things holding them

00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:53.240
back for sure um now i think the next big step

00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:58.119
well you beat me to it chirp chirp stick where

00:24:59.230 --> 00:25:04.250
along with uh you know migration to solana the

00:25:04.250 --> 00:25:08.309
helium it's standard lorwan but the way it's

00:25:08.309 --> 00:25:11.589
built out on the back end was meant to be more

00:25:11.589 --> 00:25:14.269
decentralized and from the way i understand it

00:25:14.269 --> 00:25:17.509
they will be taking chirp stack and adding some

00:25:17.509 --> 00:25:21.089
modularity and features to it so we still have

00:25:21.089 --> 00:25:24.490
that decentralized modular network but built

00:25:24.490 --> 00:25:28.650
on something that is more um more standardized

00:25:28.650 --> 00:25:33.089
yeah yeah that's it i'm sorry my dog's wandering

00:25:33.089 --> 00:25:35.529
in the background but that's it um right now

00:25:35.529 --> 00:25:40.170
um helium took um that the laura name server

00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:43.740
and wrote their own version of it. They've tried

00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:46.000
to keep it to spec, but it's missing some features.

00:25:46.099 --> 00:25:49.460
It's not as fully featured as Chirpstack. There

00:25:49.460 --> 00:25:51.700
are options for you to carry on using console,

00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:54.859
but what is exciting for me is things like Chirpstack

00:25:54.859 --> 00:25:57.539
can be used. You can also technically use the

00:25:57.539 --> 00:26:00.619
TTN networks version as well. That can be installed

00:26:00.619 --> 00:26:02.700
and run, or you can write your own and run it,

00:26:02.740 --> 00:26:07.019
this idea of open LLS. But what Chirpstack really

00:26:07.019 --> 00:26:10.059
brings is the ability to use Class C devices.

00:26:10.859 --> 00:26:13.339
Another big one that I really like and it needs

00:26:13.339 --> 00:26:17.839
some work is device profiles. So rather than

00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:19.799
going to go find a decoder, you could just type

00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:22.099
the device's type in and it will automatically

00:26:22.099 --> 00:26:24.720
put it. And you can even pick which version of

00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:26.819
that you're using. So, you know, one of the big

00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:28.420
things I found at the start when I bought my

00:26:28.420 --> 00:26:31.900
first sensor, which is a Dragino sensor, I had

00:26:31.900 --> 00:26:34.539
to work out what version of firmware was installed

00:26:34.539 --> 00:26:37.180
before I could know which decoder to use. And

00:26:37.180 --> 00:26:39.400
then, you know, I had to update that to get to

00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:42.359
the latest. use it but if we were using chirp

00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:45.640
stack i could have just picked that um version

00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:49.140
and run with it much much quicker and yeah it

00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:50.759
would just cause more people to want to use a

00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:53.819
network i mean there are networks out there there

00:26:53.819 --> 00:26:57.359
are public um networks lnss running you know

00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:59.339
but they just don't have the coverage helium

00:26:59.339 --> 00:27:02.299
has um they've tried to do it for years but the

00:27:02.299 --> 00:27:04.500
problem is is there's just never a reason to

00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:06.920
expand them beyond where they're being used you

00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:09.440
know people weren't going to just install tcn

00:27:09.849 --> 00:27:12.049
network gateways in the middle of nowhere unless

00:27:12.049 --> 00:27:14.569
they were using them you know helium did solve

00:27:14.569 --> 00:27:17.650
that problem uh you know it's it's an amazing

00:27:17.650 --> 00:27:21.289
thing and so many new businesses can exist and

00:27:21.289 --> 00:27:23.130
i think that's the biggest potential for this

00:27:23.130 --> 00:27:26.269
network so many new potentials can systems can

00:27:26.269 --> 00:27:28.970
exist because of helium i don't think we'd have

00:27:28.970 --> 00:27:31.930
a lot more you know switching over i think it's

00:27:31.930 --> 00:27:34.430
new businesses like trackpack for example that

00:27:34.430 --> 00:27:36.349
can exist because of the helium network that

00:27:36.349 --> 00:27:43.769
we're going to see the massive growth in Yeah,

00:27:43.829 --> 00:27:50.609
I certainly agree there. As far as, so we have

00:27:50.609 --> 00:27:52.750
some other people talking about random crypto

00:27:52.750 --> 00:27:57.930
in the space. We'll talk about that in a little

00:27:57.930 --> 00:28:01.509
bit. But there was a comment from Dave saying,

00:28:01.569 --> 00:28:04.410
why hasn't anyone gone into the grow room business

00:28:04.410 --> 00:28:06.750
with this setup? So we'll use this as an example.

00:28:06.849 --> 00:28:11.059
Let's say someone wants to. If you know what

00:28:11.059 --> 00:28:13.700
all is entailed there or just basically like

00:28:13.700 --> 00:28:20.599
monitoring crops or monitoring the room or humidity,

00:28:20.740 --> 00:28:24.640
temperature, et cetera. Can you give us a short

00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:26.579
rundown? If someone wanted to develop their own

00:28:26.579 --> 00:28:29.380
products for that, how would you go about that?

00:28:30.259 --> 00:28:32.759
yeah really i'd work out what is important for

00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:35.559
the crop you know um it depends on what crop

00:28:35.559 --> 00:28:37.599
you know you can look at light cycles watering

00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:40.880
cycles um and really you can automate all of

00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:43.559
that i mean there's a little there's a little

00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:47.819
bit of a stick in that um auto watering um without

00:28:47.819 --> 00:28:50.359
class c means that you would have to run timers

00:28:50.359 --> 00:28:53.039
on the watering um rather than waiting for a

00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:55.480
for a downlink to stop the water otherwise it

00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:58.160
could just flood so but yeah i'd really look

00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:00.779
at what you need to gather sensor data wise what

00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:04.470
you need to activate um can you activate uh um

00:29:04.470 --> 00:29:07.730
you know for example water watering or is there

00:29:07.730 --> 00:29:09.930
a vent on the property that you need to you know

00:29:09.930 --> 00:29:12.630
bring the humidity down or the temperature down

00:29:12.630 --> 00:29:15.630
or increase the temperature by closing them once

00:29:15.630 --> 00:29:17.589
you've got that kind of metric then you can um

00:29:17.589 --> 00:29:20.150
install it basically run a really cheap proof

00:29:20.150 --> 00:29:24.210
of concept so you know maybe install a soil moisture

00:29:24.210 --> 00:29:28.119
sensor maybe install a a humidity sensor and

00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:30.400
a temperature sensor and just try and get go

00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:33.440
with basic tools. A big part of that is come

00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:35.140
to the healing community and talk with other

00:29:35.140 --> 00:29:37.119
people. They'll be able to get you going with

00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:40.359
how to start this kind of thing. Once you have

00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:42.220
a proof of concept, that's the point you can

00:29:42.220 --> 00:29:45.900
say, right, I have one installed. Can I go install

00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:48.400
this somewhere else? And can it work the same

00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:51.000
way there? Once you've got it for a few places,

00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:53.079
you realize there might be some slight differences

00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:55.119
or there might be some complications that you

00:29:55.119 --> 00:29:56.839
hadn't thought of or features that you needed

00:29:56.839 --> 00:30:00.380
to exist on top of that. But don't spend a lot

00:30:00.380 --> 00:30:03.380
of money. Just get it out as cheaply and as easily

00:30:03.380 --> 00:30:05.900
as you can. Start with a rack development kit

00:30:05.900 --> 00:30:08.779
or a seed development kit. Try and get the basics

00:30:08.779 --> 00:30:11.220
out and prove that there's a concept here and

00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:13.960
it's repeatable. And only at that point would

00:30:13.960 --> 00:30:15.680
you start thinking about what we've done with

00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:18.799
creating an app or creating a business website

00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:23.009
for it. prove the idea and then take it to the

00:30:23.009 --> 00:30:26.549
next stage. Another big, big thing I'll talk

00:30:26.549 --> 00:30:29.990
about is that we obviously did a proof of concept

00:30:29.990 --> 00:30:33.910
for Trackpack, went on Helium Hacks Happy Hour,

00:30:33.970 --> 00:30:36.890
talked about it, and we got some small funding.

00:30:37.309 --> 00:30:40.089
available for us to start track pack so if you

00:30:40.089 --> 00:30:42.450
talk about your idea share your projects and

00:30:42.450 --> 00:30:45.230
people will share for you they love seeing new

00:30:45.230 --> 00:30:47.930
sensors on the healing network um at that point

00:30:47.930 --> 00:30:49.710
you might find funding you might find people

00:30:49.710 --> 00:30:51.509
that are interested in giving you help you know

00:30:51.509 --> 00:30:53.470
don't go it alone there are there are enough

00:30:53.470 --> 00:31:00.250
people on this network that will help you yeah

00:31:00.250 --> 00:31:03.789
so is there anything else i want you to get uh

00:31:03.789 --> 00:31:08.019
end to end for your your product before we uh

00:31:08.019 --> 00:31:12.200
start going a little bit you know outside the

00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:15.059
lines and on the stream here we can take callers

00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:17.279
if you like to uh we can share a little bit more

00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:19.140
you can stay till the end of the hour or take

00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:21.279
off whatever you'd like to do neil but i appreciate

00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:24.819
you talking about this yeah i'm happy to answer

00:31:24.819 --> 00:31:27.319
any questions as well so let's let's talk about

00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:30.039
anything i'm not sure i'm that relevant in other

00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:31.920
cryptos but you can probably drag me up a little

00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:36.980
bit yeah so Well, I was going to add Dave, but

00:31:36.980 --> 00:31:46.000
he got up and walked away. Shane M. writes, a

00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:50.000
coming $10 tracker with free or super cheap data

00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:52.720
is a game changer. We're going to track everything

00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:55.900
in the future. Yeah, I mean, right now, looking

00:31:55.900 --> 00:31:58.539
at this tracker that we built, this is a sub

00:31:58.539 --> 00:32:02.079
$30 tracker with battery, with case. I mean,

00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:03.660
there's obviously some production costs to go

00:32:03.660 --> 00:32:05.759
in there that take it a little higher. But if

00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:08.339
we could drop that GPS chip, you know, we really

00:32:08.339 --> 00:32:12.440
think in bulk we can get it under $10. I really

00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:14.599
do think that changes the game. It's so cheap

00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:16.160
that you just don't think about it, you know.

00:32:16.519 --> 00:32:19.539
It could just suddenly be implemented in everything.

00:32:19.940 --> 00:32:23.200
I mean, we've had some crazy people, crazy use

00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:27.170
cases. i'm gonna have to look into the trilateration

00:32:27.170 --> 00:32:29.829
because some of the way i know how that worked

00:32:29.829 --> 00:32:34.509
out was extremely difficult to nail down and

00:32:34.509 --> 00:32:37.109
and i think helium has a few issues of their

00:32:37.109 --> 00:32:41.549
own with like hot spot assertion places and how

00:32:41.549 --> 00:32:43.869
that's a little inaccurate but like you said

00:32:43.869 --> 00:32:47.089
it's the ai model so i'm sure there's flexibility

00:32:47.089 --> 00:32:50.809
there now i'm going to add uh dave to the stream

00:32:52.299 --> 00:32:56.380
in a moment here. And I think he may have questions

00:32:56.380 --> 00:33:00.940
for you, but Dave, welcome to Network Bitstream.

00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:05.440
Hey, can you guys hear me? Hey, Dave. Hey, what's

00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:10.599
up, guys? You guys can hear me? Yeah. All right,

00:33:10.619 --> 00:33:14.559
cool. I was wondering how much data can the chipset

00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:17.740
transmit and what would be like the continual

00:33:17.740 --> 00:33:21.440
monitoring rate of the data? Yeah, I mean like

00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:23.759
if the battery life like you said it has a built

00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:26.160
-in battery life. So obviously There's gonna

00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:28.420
be a capability to expand that that's not very

00:33:28.420 --> 00:33:30.819
difficult. You know what I mean? What's the voltage

00:33:30.819 --> 00:33:35.059
of it? 5 .5. I'm assuming I Wouldn't know the

00:33:35.059 --> 00:33:37.299
voltage to be honest with you. That's not the

00:33:37.299 --> 00:33:39.059
harder guy, but I could tell you give the battery

00:33:39.059 --> 00:33:41.680
there Like can you see the battery like the battery

00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:44.940
voltage? We literally, this doesn't have a battery

00:33:44.940 --> 00:33:49.319
and this one's like a 540 milliamp hour battery.

00:33:49.420 --> 00:33:52.220
So it's a very small battery. I mean, this for

00:33:52.220 --> 00:33:54.599
me, tracking the dog, I walk the dog two hours

00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:57.920
a day, that dog, this lasts for two weeks. But

00:33:57.920 --> 00:33:59.839
if you were constantly moving around with this

00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:03.099
thing, a day or so. See, like the use case I

00:34:03.099 --> 00:34:05.960
was thinking about personally is like my side

00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:09.699
gig that I'm currently medically retired from,

00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:14.610
but still on call. You know, just fixing everybody

00:34:14.610 --> 00:34:16.989
else's problems. I'm a master grower and a grow

00:34:16.989 --> 00:34:19.889
room engineer for the cannabis industry in Canada.

00:34:20.409 --> 00:34:24.550
We do large scale grow room and grow room designs.

00:34:24.650 --> 00:34:27.090
Like personally, it's just me. But like I have

00:34:27.090 --> 00:34:30.889
my own company that does it. We work with companies

00:34:30.889 --> 00:34:33.610
like my biggest corporation that I have right

00:34:33.610 --> 00:34:36.590
now is Canopy Growth Corp. They encompass, I

00:34:36.590 --> 00:34:40.179
think, 30. different medical licenses in canada

00:34:40.179 --> 00:34:42.659
right now and when i started there they had this

00:34:42.659 --> 00:34:47.239
agricultural system that cost them what was it

00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:50.099
like seven hundred thousand dollars to set up

00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:53.860
three grow rooms for monitoring um we're talking

00:34:53.860 --> 00:35:00.139
like miles and miles and miles of rj45 cabling

00:35:00.139 --> 00:35:05.570
it's like Are you high? I literally, when I walked

00:35:05.570 --> 00:35:09.289
in there, I ripped apart the master grower. He

00:35:09.289 --> 00:35:11.150
got fired. This is at the open house. Ripped

00:35:11.150 --> 00:35:14.349
apart. Went in the next day, ripped out the entire

00:35:14.349 --> 00:35:17.289
grow room system, replaced it all with Arduinos

00:35:17.289 --> 00:35:20.659
and Android tablets. that were on the outside

00:35:20.659 --> 00:35:23.179
and like yeah the arduino's i was able to do

00:35:23.179 --> 00:35:25.599
the ph monitoring i was able to do the humidity

00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:27.800
the temperature the light like i could get the

00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:30.340
par and the spectrums i could make sure that

00:35:30.340 --> 00:35:33.360
my like the wind was fluctuating right you know

00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:35.059
what i mean like i had fan controllers and stuff

00:35:35.059 --> 00:35:41.079
um what would be like the lifespan on one of

00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:44.940
those units um Like that you're going to be releasing

00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:47.639
with the built -in battery, I guess, if I was

00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:50.239
to do constant or like say 15 second interval

00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:53.239
monitoring. Yeah, I mean, generally, like on

00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:57.260
the trackers, we'd like 30 -second uplinks, minute

00:35:57.260 --> 00:35:59.739
uplinks, two -minute uplinks. But if you're moving

00:35:59.739 --> 00:36:01.780
into a world where you're monitoring soil moisture

00:36:01.780 --> 00:36:04.260
and stuff, I mean, obviously, it's longer times,

00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:06.400
right? Five minutes or 10 minutes, you know,

00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:09.659
or hours or half hours. So when you put a decent

00:36:09.659 --> 00:36:12.099
AC and 650 battery in, and depending on the place

00:36:12.099 --> 00:36:13.980
you're growing, is it outdoor or indoor, you

00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:15.880
can put solar panels and they'll last a whole

00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:18.349
year on a little... you know little tiny solar

00:36:18.349 --> 00:36:20.969
panel like that so but generally yeah you're

00:36:20.969 --> 00:36:23.909
talking years of battery life for for a target

00:36:23.909 --> 00:36:26.250
like that and yeah like you say no cables to

00:36:26.250 --> 00:36:28.929
run you can you can really be doing it you could

00:36:28.929 --> 00:36:31.510
have an actuator on vents you could have an actuator

00:36:31.510 --> 00:36:35.349
fans power reach reach out to me through joe

00:36:35.349 --> 00:36:40.099
after the podcast um we should um It's one of

00:36:40.099 --> 00:36:42.260
those projects that I built. One of the first

00:36:42.260 --> 00:36:44.920
sensors after building the MAPPA was building

00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:47.099
a pH monitoring sensor in the garden that was

00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:50.619
powered by solar just to see what it did. It

00:36:50.619 --> 00:36:53.059
also had temperature and humidity in it. Putting

00:36:53.059 --> 00:36:55.280
that data and having it on a little solar panel

00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:59.619
like that that lasted all year. I just think

00:36:59.619 --> 00:37:05.219
about an injection mold process where you have

00:37:05.219 --> 00:37:08.159
one of those cheap little like one of the cells

00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:11.320
off of a panel. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly.

00:37:11.340 --> 00:37:14.280
On top of it. And then you have the sensor that

00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:16.559
hangs off of it and like a little mount that

00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:18.659
you can put it. If you're doing it in an indoor

00:37:18.659 --> 00:37:20.639
growth space, the lighting alone is going to

00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:22.960
produce enough light. Yeah, exactly. So that's

00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:24.639
the kind of panel that I was using in the garden

00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:26.639
that lasted all year. That was more than enough

00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:28.860
power for it. So, you know, it doesn't even cost

00:37:28.860 --> 00:37:31.280
anything in electricity to run it. And if it's

00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:34.820
under HID lights, like in an indoor growth space,

00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:39.000
you're still... talking like 12 hours at least

00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:42.139
of light every day of like the highest intensity

00:37:42.139 --> 00:37:45.800
light that a cell could experience sure exactly

00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:48.579
no it's really interesting i mean we should talk

00:37:48.579 --> 00:37:50.820
about working on some it's just one of those

00:37:50.820 --> 00:37:53.059
things that like there's so many use cases for

00:37:53.059 --> 00:37:55.960
laura but there's not a massive amount of people

00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:59.230
that know how to build a full system i want to

00:37:59.230 --> 00:38:00.869
kind of like educate people on like being able

00:38:00.869 --> 00:38:03.409
to do that and offer services but some of it

00:38:03.409 --> 00:38:05.730
does need you know specialization like i don't

00:38:05.730 --> 00:38:08.630
own a grow house i wouldn't know exactly what

00:38:08.630 --> 00:38:11.250
you need to monitor so you bring that experience

00:38:11.250 --> 00:38:13.929
in and maybe we can develop a little system or

00:38:13.929 --> 00:38:16.489
a little prototype of building it you know but

00:38:16.489 --> 00:38:18.409
that that's what's lacking in the community is

00:38:18.409 --> 00:38:20.530
working together to build these solutions we

00:38:20.530 --> 00:38:22.789
need more of that you know i've got this solution

00:38:22.789 --> 00:38:25.130
that needs monitoring how do i get there how

00:38:25.130 --> 00:38:29.300
do we help and get there quickly Oh, yeah. Like,

00:38:29.420 --> 00:38:33.119
yeah. Well, I do want to push the envelope on

00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:37.300
619 OTA's idea here for some sort of... I'm not

00:38:37.300 --> 00:38:41.360
in the YouTube chat. I apologize. No, he talks

00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:43.860
about it regularly, sometimes in the Discord

00:38:43.860 --> 00:38:46.280
and, you know, YouTube channel, whatever. But

00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:49.039
it's a great idea. It would be nice to see a

00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:52.480
dedicated catalog through Helium of the different

00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:54.920
types of devices that... you could utilize on

00:38:54.920 --> 00:38:57.719
the network and who supports those types, like

00:38:57.719 --> 00:38:59.840
what companies are currently selling them, link

00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:06.440
to the website. If there's an access node to

00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:08.699
the network that's accessible through a Raspberry

00:39:08.699 --> 00:39:13.019
Pi, then you're talking anything. It's one of

00:39:13.019 --> 00:39:17.800
those ones, Joe, like literally anything. You

00:39:17.800 --> 00:39:19.980
could monitor the reflection of your mirror in

00:39:19.980 --> 00:39:22.300
the morning if you really wanted to. But it's

00:39:22.300 --> 00:39:24.159
one of those things that we shouldn't rely on

00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:27.239
Nova or the foundation to do, though, Joe. We

00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:29.539
should be building that kind of site. That in

00:39:29.539 --> 00:39:32.340
itself can earn money from advertisements, from

00:39:32.340 --> 00:39:34.739
product placement, from product reviews. That

00:39:34.739 --> 00:39:37.480
in itself is a great idea, but it's just manpower

00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:41.019
or womenpower or anything power to build that

00:39:41.019 --> 00:39:45.539
kind of solution. I might be able to access some

00:39:45.539 --> 00:39:48.530
of that manpower. Yeah, exactly. And it's a great

00:39:48.530 --> 00:39:50.190
little site. I mean, we talked about doing it

00:39:50.190 --> 00:39:54.150
before, calling it Helium Reviews, actually tested

00:39:54.150 --> 00:39:56.969
sensors and see how they use and what information

00:39:56.969 --> 00:39:58.849
you need to get them on the Helium network, what

00:39:58.849 --> 00:40:01.170
providers are best to use them with. You can

00:40:01.170 --> 00:40:03.050
start building a really nice catalog, but yeah,

00:40:03.110 --> 00:40:05.889
it just needs time and effort. And yeah, I think

00:40:05.889 --> 00:40:08.590
a lot of people rely on Helium and Nova to do

00:40:08.590 --> 00:40:10.829
that. And it's just, they are so spread thin

00:40:10.829 --> 00:40:13.449
as it is that we need to provide those solutions

00:40:13.449 --> 00:40:15.889
for them, you know. Yeah, Joe's got to send me

00:40:15.889 --> 00:40:18.429
a helium miner to set up the network for my farm.

00:40:18.989 --> 00:40:25.570
Do it. All right, you got it. One of the things

00:40:25.570 --> 00:40:30.170
I wanted to cover, the transition to Solana that's

00:40:30.170 --> 00:40:32.769
currently taking place. I want to know your guys'

00:40:32.849 --> 00:40:37.090
thoughts on it. Incredible. Either way, I'm not

00:40:37.090 --> 00:40:42.179
really too bothered by it. Do I really care that

00:40:42.179 --> 00:40:44.380
much about Solana? Not necessarily, but I don't

00:40:44.380 --> 00:40:47.840
think it's the end of the world. I don't think

00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:49.900
they're as bad as people make them out to be.

00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:53.699
I know, Dave, you and Akiva had something on

00:40:53.699 --> 00:40:57.079
your website about that, a podcast about it as

00:40:57.079 --> 00:40:59.639
well, which I listened to some of it. But I want

00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:03.639
to hear both of your thoughts on Solana. I think

00:41:03.639 --> 00:41:06.599
Solana is a great project. I think the fact.

00:41:06.940 --> 00:41:10.400
of all this FUD is hilarious. I think the fact

00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:14.460
that they like, like they showed their funds,

00:41:14.599 --> 00:41:19.519
like they have 50 years of funding to fund the

00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:24.079
project at its current size in their own coffers.

00:41:25.159 --> 00:41:29.480
So like, it's FUD. It's FUD. It's FUD. Like,

00:41:29.619 --> 00:41:32.440
if you have, if I had extra money right now,

00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:37.750
I'd be buying soul. left right and center not

00:41:37.750 --> 00:41:41.630
financial advice but but like there's so many

00:41:41.630 --> 00:41:44.230
good projects that might be great that might

00:41:44.230 --> 00:41:46.670
be great financial advice because jim kramer

00:41:46.670 --> 00:41:52.369
says not to i don't know buy it if i'm talking

00:41:52.369 --> 00:41:56.610
to you joe as like my homeboy then i'd be telling

00:41:56.610 --> 00:42:00.530
you i would be putting at least 20 of all your

00:42:00.530 --> 00:42:02.809
investments into it okay let's not get crazy

00:42:02.809 --> 00:42:07.130
here No, like I'm saying, if you were to say

00:42:07.130 --> 00:42:10.789
like the way I was investing because I'm a miner

00:42:10.789 --> 00:42:13.030
is I would take my money. But you're being serious

00:42:13.030 --> 00:42:16.190
here. You like Solana that much? Yeah, I like

00:42:16.190 --> 00:42:19.389
Solana. It's one of like four coins currently

00:42:19.389 --> 00:42:22.650
that I have a bag of in my hodl. That's like

00:42:22.650 --> 00:42:29.869
one of four. And yeah, if I could be mining it

00:42:29.869 --> 00:42:32.929
right now and be paying the bills, I would be.

00:42:33.340 --> 00:42:37.400
but i can't so i mine various other coins and

00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:40.780
projects that mind me enough coins though i can

00:42:40.780 --> 00:42:45.719
pay the bills like it's currently well well currently

00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:50.820
just off my 10 uh 30 70 rig uh there's 10 30

00:42:50.820 --> 00:42:56.099
70s and two uh 6800s on it i've made uh 1400

00:42:56.099 --> 00:43:00.199
in the last week and a half just off that rig

00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:04.599
And it's mining a coin that nobody's heard of.

00:43:04.739 --> 00:43:07.280
And I actually have an interview with the devs

00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:12.800
coming up called Nexa. And it's a solid project.

00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:15.840
It's actually backed from what's it called? Bitcoin

00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:19.440
Unlimited or Bitcoin Ultimate or whatever. Those

00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:24.440
guys. So like the Bitcoin Cash or BCH. Yeah.

00:43:26.059 --> 00:43:30.980
Those guys kept trying to implement. optimizations

00:43:30.980 --> 00:43:35.820
to the network that the Bitcoin cash team was

00:43:35.820 --> 00:43:37.619
just like kept shooting down and shooting down

00:43:37.619 --> 00:43:40.099
and shooting down and shooting down so they said

00:43:40.099 --> 00:43:47.340
I catch and um and went and made Nexa and Nexus

00:43:47.340 --> 00:43:51.559
been just like a powerhouse like we just went

00:43:51.559 --> 00:43:55.760
up I think like 40 % today in value like there's

00:43:55.760 --> 00:43:57.579
only one exchange that's dealing with it right

00:43:57.579 --> 00:44:00.099
now We're getting listed on another exchange.

00:44:00.179 --> 00:44:02.300
We're just trying to get the liquidity. I say

00:44:02.300 --> 00:44:05.179
weird, like I'm being part of it. That's like,

00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:09.679
it's that minor mentality that's going to make

00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:12.880
this coin successful. Like the project is solid.

00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:16.039
It's a layer one. They're offering up to 100

00:44:16.039 --> 00:44:19.480
,000, I think, transactions per second. Well,

00:44:19.500 --> 00:44:23.730
I've heard quite a bit about Nexa lately. So

00:44:23.730 --> 00:44:26.389
real quick, I want to get your opinion, Neil,

00:44:26.550 --> 00:44:30.769
on the Solana transition. And we'll get into

00:44:30.769 --> 00:44:33.030
the other topics, of course. No worries. But

00:44:33.030 --> 00:44:37.130
you're more inside of Helium. You're a moderator

00:44:37.130 --> 00:44:39.489
there. You have a lot of, I mean, you see all

00:44:39.489 --> 00:44:41.809
the conversation that's taking place. You're

00:44:41.809 --> 00:44:47.090
in the events and the community chats. What is

00:44:47.090 --> 00:44:50.719
your thoughts overall? Yeah, I mean, I have to

00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:54.179
be, you know, in Discord and chats with Helium

00:44:54.179 --> 00:44:56.199
Foundation and Nova, they obviously can't talk

00:44:56.199 --> 00:44:59.039
about price. So it's always difficult for me

00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:01.639
to get my views across about the move and everything.

00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:06.159
Can I just say subtly he agrees with me? No,

00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:09.159
just to say, I mean, it scares me a little, the

00:45:09.159 --> 00:45:11.159
move. I've got to be honest, the move scares

00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:13.800
me. The biggest problem we have on the network

00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:17.309
right now is Helium, on the Helium network. is

00:45:17.309 --> 00:45:20.849
that the only real funds that are being hodled

00:45:20.849 --> 00:45:25.789
are the HST rewards. So generally, they won't

00:45:25.789 --> 00:45:28.889
sell their earnings. So nearly all of it is being

00:45:28.889 --> 00:45:33.809
sold all the time. So when we move to a network

00:45:33.809 --> 00:45:37.489
that people are a bit scared of and they hear

00:45:37.489 --> 00:45:40.230
about this thing, they're worried, so they don't

00:45:40.230 --> 00:45:42.650
hodl. And that's what we really need to help

00:45:42.650 --> 00:45:44.670
the price increase, that people are hodling and

00:45:44.670 --> 00:45:47.070
not selling their coins. So the perception of

00:45:47.070 --> 00:45:50.510
the network is so bad that it worries me to move.

00:45:50.710 --> 00:45:53.769
But generally, generally, when you actually look

00:45:53.769 --> 00:45:55.929
at the technology, when you look at the community

00:45:55.929 --> 00:45:57.949
base, when you look at how many developers are

00:45:57.949 --> 00:45:59.969
there that have this mentality of chewing glass.

00:46:00.409 --> 00:46:02.690
So let's just build it. Let's just keep going.

00:46:02.789 --> 00:46:04.570
Let's keep these solutions going. Let's build

00:46:04.570 --> 00:46:07.489
it. The pace that they have is exciting and it's

00:46:07.489 --> 00:46:10.190
great to think that we could be a big deal for

00:46:10.190 --> 00:46:14.039
slot. Solana, is incredible. I've always seen

00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:16.079
it from the start. The Solana team and the Helium

00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:18.300
team are very close. You just can't beat that.

00:46:19.059 --> 00:46:22.559
They have always been close. It just makes sense.

00:46:23.019 --> 00:46:25.159
Solana wasn't around when Helium launched, so

00:46:25.159 --> 00:46:30.159
Helium did their own. Exactly. People want to

00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:32.579
talk about backroom deals and politics, but look,

00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:37.739
if you've consulted with another business, five

00:46:37.739 --> 00:46:40.199
years ago and they fit the bill then and now

00:46:40.199 --> 00:46:41.860
they're gonna fit the bill and you got a good

00:46:41.860 --> 00:46:44.000
relationship with them exactly yeah it kind of

00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:46.820
makes sense from that from that standpoint now

00:46:46.820 --> 00:46:50.340
the there was something else um on the note of

00:46:50.340 --> 00:46:53.260
solana where one of the big arguments is it's

00:46:53.260 --> 00:46:59.789
a vc based um yeah a vc based blockchain so i

00:46:59.789 --> 00:47:02.309
get it i i certainly get it where but you've

00:47:02.309 --> 00:47:03.809
got to look at it you've got to look at it now

00:47:03.809 --> 00:47:06.070
that we've just cleared out sam bankman freed

00:47:06.070 --> 00:47:08.750
from you know having any interest it's not even

00:47:08.750 --> 00:47:12.269
you know i mean look this is what this is the

00:47:12.269 --> 00:47:14.469
point i'm trying to make is it's kind of like

00:47:14.469 --> 00:47:17.630
when you send you know non -political people

00:47:17.630 --> 00:47:20.329
into politics hoping that they're going to do

00:47:20.329 --> 00:47:23.690
what's right for you where it's like the decentralization

00:47:23.690 --> 00:47:30.000
uh um cult in crypto everyone wants to be decentralized

00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:33.940
and away from the powers that be well just look

00:47:33.940 --> 00:47:37.300
at what happened with ethereum did vitalik end

00:47:37.300 --> 00:47:39.579
up being our friend in the end did he do what

00:47:39.579 --> 00:47:42.199
is necessarily right for the ethereum network

00:47:42.199 --> 00:47:48.539
you can make a case both ways but it's the same

00:47:48.539 --> 00:47:52.480
thing just because you're going to start with

00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:57.789
a network that maybe is more you know philosophically

00:47:57.789 --> 00:48:00.409
in your lane it doesn't mean it's going to end

00:48:00.409 --> 00:48:02.630
up like that in the end when they see the dollar

00:48:02.630 --> 00:48:07.710
signs just a thought i mean that's that's one

00:48:07.710 --> 00:48:10.210
thing i always say and i think helium could help

00:48:10.210 --> 00:48:12.809
solana a lot you know we can we can have a lot

00:48:12.809 --> 00:48:16.230
of positive influence i mean name me many how

00:48:16.230 --> 00:48:18.289
many cryptos are out there that actually have

00:48:18.289 --> 00:48:21.579
real world usage and i mean look This is on a

00:48:21.579 --> 00:48:24.079
crypto network. Right now, this physical thing

00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:26.059
that I hold in my hand is on a crypto network.

00:48:26.059 --> 00:48:28.659
I'm powered by a crypto network. This is not

00:48:28.659 --> 00:48:31.079
the promise of usage. This is not the promise

00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:33.340
of development of solutions. This is actually

00:48:33.340 --> 00:48:36.840
real world solutions right now. So I think we

00:48:36.840 --> 00:48:39.550
will drag Sol up. quite a bit you know when we

00:48:39.550 --> 00:48:41.650
go forward what they're doing is looks fantastic

00:48:41.650 --> 00:48:44.889
the community over there are fantastic the events

00:48:44.889 --> 00:48:47.630
they put on are fantastic the technology is great

00:48:47.630 --> 00:48:49.489
and the decentralization is improving all the

00:48:49.489 --> 00:48:51.829
time right they've got two different validators

00:48:51.829 --> 00:48:54.550
now right they've almost got two different validators

00:48:54.550 --> 00:48:57.090
produced by different companies you can't get

00:48:57.090 --> 00:49:02.230
more decentralized than that you know um Real

00:49:02.230 --> 00:49:04.630
quick, anyone in the audience, I left the call

00:49:04.630 --> 00:49:08.250
link pinned. So we got about 11 more minutes.

00:49:08.349 --> 00:49:11.429
If you do want to call in and chat, if you have

00:49:11.429 --> 00:49:14.070
some questions, you can also leave the comments

00:49:14.070 --> 00:49:17.269
in the chat. But Neil, you'll probably be taking

00:49:17.269 --> 00:49:21.829
off in about 10 minutes here. And then the other

00:49:21.829 --> 00:49:24.590
gentleman, Akiba, will be coming on. And that

00:49:24.590 --> 00:49:28.789
will begin the second hour where we discuss crypto

00:49:28.789 --> 00:49:35.599
slate. crypto in general but one of the things

00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:38.719
i'm uh wondering neil from from your standpoint

00:49:38.719 --> 00:49:42.880
in helium there's a lot of other talk about the

00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:44.920
different networks that are being stood up as

00:49:44.920 --> 00:49:53.920
well uh geonet weather xm uh hive mapper demo

00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:57.079
yeah i can't think of all of them off the top

00:49:57.079 --> 00:49:59.139
of my head but there's a few more all the time

00:49:59.139 --> 00:50:01.989
isn't there Yeah. Do you have your eye on any

00:50:01.989 --> 00:50:06.010
of them in particular? I like WeatherXM. Obviously,

00:50:06.190 --> 00:50:08.329
they just got botted when they went on sale,

00:50:08.409 --> 00:50:10.409
right? So everyone got really long wait times.

00:50:10.469 --> 00:50:12.969
And we're in crypto winter, so buying hardware

00:50:12.969 --> 00:50:16.309
right now is tough, right? But yeah, I do like

00:50:16.309 --> 00:50:21.250
WeatherXM. GeoNet, yeah, to an extent. I think

00:50:21.250 --> 00:50:25.590
GPS and GNNS is the old way of doing it, a little.

00:50:26.570 --> 00:50:28.949
But the ideas are good for existing systems.

00:50:32.150 --> 00:50:36.369
So Patrick Guillen would like to ask the question

00:50:36.369 --> 00:50:40.070
that I've answered for him before. Sure. What

00:50:40.070 --> 00:50:43.050
problem does this exactly solve? Patrick, are

00:50:43.050 --> 00:50:48.050
you referring to the helium network or are we

00:50:48.050 --> 00:50:52.389
talking about moving to Solana? I think he's

00:50:52.389 --> 00:50:54.769
talking about sensors. So let's just go based

00:50:54.769 --> 00:50:57.880
on that. And I say that helium. just means that

00:50:57.880 --> 00:51:00.980
inanimate objects can be tracked finally. Really,

00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:04.679
tracking before was for something that was expensive.

00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:08.760
But really, we've seen use cases from skip hires

00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:12.460
to onion pallets was another big one, bikes,

00:51:12.780 --> 00:51:17.059
objects. You can really track anything that makes

00:51:17.059 --> 00:51:19.280
a massive difference. Like a great use case that

00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:22.889
I was always told about was... um onion farmers

00:51:22.889 --> 00:51:26.449
have to use food safe um containers um this one

00:51:26.449 --> 00:51:28.710
particular business that we talked to um was

00:51:28.710 --> 00:51:32.329
losing 300 000 pounds worth of um of um containers

00:51:32.329 --> 00:51:35.590
every year so with it with a few trackers for

00:51:35.590 --> 00:51:37.510
next to nothing they can save themselves that

00:51:37.510 --> 00:51:40.090
much money um and the only thing that was stopping

00:51:40.090 --> 00:51:42.349
them was that you know sim cards are too power

00:51:42.349 --> 00:51:44.590
hungry and you just can't afford to track an

00:51:44.590 --> 00:51:47.710
onion crate whereas if you get these things out

00:51:47.710 --> 00:51:50.960
of ten dollars Outrageous. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:54.039
And if you look at what nano things are doing

00:51:54.039 --> 00:51:56.260
or what we're doing with technology going forward

00:51:56.260 --> 00:51:57.980
and trying to get these things smaller and cheaper,

00:51:58.059 --> 00:52:01.340
then it can start making sense. But a big one

00:52:01.340 --> 00:52:03.800
that I love for asset tracking and talking about

00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:07.019
is this idea of proof of location, proof of presence.

00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:10.059
So with the Helium network, without using GPS,

00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:12.400
we can tell you that something is where it says

00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:14.840
it's meant to be and where it is if it moves.

00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:17.780
So that can enable things like smart contracts

00:52:17.780 --> 00:52:21.260
to be sold. So decentralized delivery, for example,

00:52:21.340 --> 00:52:25.159
or if you were in charge of storing, I think

00:52:25.159 --> 00:52:26.619
one of the other companies on one of Gristle

00:52:26.619 --> 00:52:28.639
King's streams was saying that, you know. If

00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:32.300
you're a whiskey investor and you were storing

00:52:32.300 --> 00:52:34.639
whiskey barrels and things, you could put a tracker

00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:36.820
on that whiskey barrel and know where it is and

00:52:36.820 --> 00:52:40.099
prove that it's actually safe in the warehouse.

00:52:40.099 --> 00:52:42.480
Was that the helium competitor? The competitor?

00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:46.460
The competitor? No, they were actually using

00:52:46.460 --> 00:52:49.380
helium, but I think most of it was their main

00:52:49.380 --> 00:52:54.179
project was unsolved. Okay, because I heard the

00:52:54.179 --> 00:52:57.309
other... wannabe competitor with overpriced hardware

00:52:57.309 --> 00:53:01.409
was trying to do the same thing right right did

00:53:01.409 --> 00:53:04.670
you see my videos about them there's a few there's

00:53:04.670 --> 00:53:06.449
a few networks trying to take on what helium

00:53:06.449 --> 00:53:09.050
are doing now isn't that but well it's not it's

00:53:09.050 --> 00:53:13.309
the other ones are all right um it's mxc that

00:53:13.309 --> 00:53:16.309
are really the turds in the punch bowl i just

00:53:16.309 --> 00:53:19.349
never do that i could never do that network the

00:53:19.349 --> 00:53:21.829
second i saw that the gateways that a hundred

00:53:21.829 --> 00:53:25.239
dollars worth of hardware were two I just knew

00:53:25.239 --> 00:53:26.739
what game they were in. They were in the hardware

00:53:26.739 --> 00:53:32.559
game, you know? I had a misjudgment for a moment

00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:35.340
there and figured, hey, I might not get my helium

00:53:35.340 --> 00:53:38.559
hotspots, so I'll get one of these. Got my ROI,

00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:44.500
but aside from that, what a waste. And you guys

00:53:44.500 --> 00:53:46.179
can watch the video. It's quite entertaining.

00:53:46.820 --> 00:53:52.320
I am going to bring in Akiba. Hey, hey. Welcome

00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:54.760
to the stream. Hello. How's everyone doing today?

00:53:55.039 --> 00:53:58.599
Good day, buddy. Good to see you. Yeah, good

00:53:58.599 --> 00:54:00.940
to see you. Really interesting conversation,

00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:03.719
guys. Yeah, we'll keep the conversation going

00:54:03.719 --> 00:54:06.980
for the next five, maybe ten minutes, Neil. Whenever

00:54:06.980 --> 00:54:11.179
you want to kick off, you can. Yeah, but then

00:54:11.179 --> 00:54:13.880
we'll keep them. I'm sure he has some input on

00:54:13.880 --> 00:54:17.360
the guy. I do want to do before we begin the

00:54:17.360 --> 00:54:20.039
next segment, a hard cut where we do the formalities

00:54:20.039 --> 00:54:23.940
and introduction because Chris and I. uh we are

00:54:23.940 --> 00:54:26.619
cutting this up for his blockchain bay podcast

00:54:26.619 --> 00:54:30.940
and i also want to get a dedicated video to you

00:54:30.940 --> 00:54:33.659
guys and neil we already have one for you so

00:54:33.659 --> 00:54:39.039
sure we'll be good here sounds good go ahead

00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:41.420
akiba is there something uh you were going to

00:54:41.420 --> 00:54:44.179
say no i would just say i really want one of

00:54:44.179 --> 00:54:46.039
those things one of those uh things for my dogs

00:54:46.039 --> 00:54:49.980
i think they uh The options that are out there

00:54:49.980 --> 00:54:51.900
at the moment, as you say, are all SIM card -based,

00:54:51.980 --> 00:54:54.119
and they just really don't work, or they're Bluetooth

00:54:54.119 --> 00:54:56.679
-based, which just don't seem to really make

00:54:56.679 --> 00:54:58.440
sense. That's the thing. You have this network

00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:01.559
that you were talking about. So just to finish

00:55:01.559 --> 00:55:04.119
quickly, one of the biggest things that people

00:55:04.119 --> 00:55:06.239
keep asking me, obviously I'm a journalist in

00:55:06.239 --> 00:55:08.440
this space and also do some consultancy as well,

00:55:08.500 --> 00:55:10.739
is like, oh, is crypto dead? What's happening

00:55:10.739 --> 00:55:12.440
when people just look at prices? And they completely

00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:15.039
miss this core infrastructure that is still building,

00:55:15.139 --> 00:55:18.710
that is still growing. And it's a meme, but the

00:55:18.710 --> 00:55:21.289
infrastructure is still early. This is all in

00:55:21.289 --> 00:55:23.489
beta really still. And we're finding real use

00:55:23.489 --> 00:55:26.150
cases. And I think as much as there's pros and

00:55:26.150 --> 00:55:28.610
cons about, say, the Helium network, the fact

00:55:28.610 --> 00:55:32.150
that there is a massive network there with proper

00:55:32.150 --> 00:55:35.510
infrastructure, with obvious use cases, I think

00:55:35.510 --> 00:55:38.190
it's phenomenal just as an achievement, whether

00:55:38.190 --> 00:55:40.510
it ends up being the thing that survives or not.

00:55:40.610 --> 00:55:44.070
I think it's one of the best use cases for like

00:55:44.070 --> 00:55:49.969
a... crypto ecosystem coming together to build

00:55:49.969 --> 00:55:53.309
something amazing. It is. It just takes the people

00:55:53.309 --> 00:55:55.809
to get behind it. The only reason that this network

00:55:55.809 --> 00:55:57.750
is going down in price is because people don't

00:55:57.750 --> 00:55:59.230
believe in it. If we could get more people to

00:55:59.230 --> 00:56:01.670
believe in it and show more usage, that's something

00:56:01.670 --> 00:56:04.130
we as a community need to do, then we could build

00:56:04.130 --> 00:56:07.230
this into something massive. It just takes a

00:56:07.230 --> 00:56:09.710
little bit of effort from everyone. We kind of

00:56:09.710 --> 00:56:12.869
need the crypto bros that just want to run. from

00:56:12.869 --> 00:56:14.989
hosting a hotspot you know we need those people

00:56:14.989 --> 00:56:17.250
otherwise we wouldn't get a global spread of

00:56:17.250 --> 00:56:19.530
hotspots you know we need them as much but to

00:56:19.530 --> 00:56:21.809
get them to earn more we need more people that

00:56:21.809 --> 00:56:23.349
are willing to put the effort in to build up

00:56:23.349 --> 00:56:26.369
the services you know and it just takes it just

00:56:26.369 --> 00:56:28.769
takes effort and there's there's a few of us

00:56:28.769 --> 00:56:31.650
right now and more are welcome you know i'll

00:56:31.650 --> 00:56:34.030
always help train people up but we need people

00:56:34.030 --> 00:56:35.909
with use cases to step forward and say i've got

00:56:35.909 --> 00:56:38.889
use case i can drive sales help me build a solution

00:56:38.889 --> 00:56:45.909
you know And like I said, when it comes to helium,

00:56:46.170 --> 00:56:50.889
I'm not listening to the crypto bros that are,

00:56:51.030 --> 00:56:53.190
you know, they stick their finger in the air,

00:56:53.230 --> 00:56:54.969
figure out which way the wind blows that day.

00:56:55.429 --> 00:57:00.710
It's people like Neil, Travis, Leo, people who've

00:57:00.710 --> 00:57:02.869
been in the industry building on the network

00:57:02.869 --> 00:57:06.670
that find utility to the point where they feel

00:57:06.670 --> 00:57:10.639
that they could build. coherent product for their

00:57:10.639 --> 00:57:15.900
business on it. I just don't understand where

00:57:15.900 --> 00:57:17.760
the disconnect with some people are. It's like

00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:23.179
they need that immediate result. And I think

00:57:23.179 --> 00:57:26.880
so many people fail to realize that crypto is

00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:29.800
not like the stock market. You look at the stock

00:57:29.800 --> 00:57:33.000
prices and you can get a pretty fair gauge of

00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:37.699
where the confidence and value is in that company.

00:57:38.429 --> 00:57:41.989
But with crypto, I mean, it pumps so crazy once

00:57:41.989 --> 00:57:45.630
every four years. And I just had a video that

00:57:45.630 --> 00:57:49.809
I just posted yesterday that we cut out of another

00:57:49.809 --> 00:57:53.369
live stream Travis was on, actually. And we went

00:57:53.369 --> 00:57:55.929
over eight different factors that took place

00:57:55.929 --> 00:58:00.730
for helium in 2021 that all those had a little

00:58:00.730 --> 00:58:03.409
bit of an effect on the price. In one way or

00:58:03.409 --> 00:58:06.929
another, they cause speculation or upward pressure.

00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:10.239
on the exchanges sending that price to what it

00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:14.739
was and i just see that so many people don't

00:58:14.739 --> 00:58:17.519
understand the context of it because now they're

00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:19.280
saying the same thing's going to happen to these

00:58:19.280 --> 00:58:22.559
other projects that have way more of a maximum

00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:27.420
supply of tokens it's like people they just don't

00:58:27.420 --> 00:58:30.920
understand they don't they don't and i try my

00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:34.000
best to uh drive the point home but do you know

00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:37.500
a lot of that is because really surprised that

00:58:37.500 --> 00:58:39.880
it always surprised me helium is a lot of people's

00:58:39.880 --> 00:58:42.420
first crypto so when they see the price going

00:58:42.420 --> 00:58:44.820
down they just think oh well this network's trash

00:58:44.820 --> 00:58:47.880
but they don't really know about the rest of

00:58:47.880 --> 00:58:49.739
the market and not seeing everything going down

00:58:49.739 --> 00:58:51.880
you know so they think this thing's dead and

00:58:51.880 --> 00:58:54.519
this is just a time that builders build right

00:58:54.519 --> 00:59:00.039
and personally what why i haven't built on the

00:59:00.039 --> 00:59:03.659
network yet um is because I ordered an abundance

00:59:03.659 --> 00:59:08.579
from various manufacturers. I bet. Two years.

00:59:09.239 --> 00:59:14.219
And people who I turned on to these manufacturers

00:59:14.219 --> 00:59:16.340
were getting their stuff. And I turned them on

00:59:16.340 --> 00:59:18.820
like a year after I'd already been waiting. And

00:59:18.820 --> 00:59:21.019
I'm like, oh, you're in a queue from this and

00:59:21.019 --> 00:59:22.940
that. And it's like, what are you talking about?

00:59:24.280 --> 00:59:27.639
It absolutely sucks. It makes zero sense. But

00:59:27.639 --> 00:59:31.739
like, I mean, thousands of dollars tied up. two

00:59:31.739 --> 00:59:33.980
years. And then I had to fight with my credit

00:59:33.980 --> 00:59:37.099
card companies to get my money back. And it was

00:59:37.099 --> 00:59:41.420
just like, psycho. Yeah, that was such an unfortunate

00:59:41.420 --> 00:59:47.539
situation. And it caused so much FUD for the

00:59:47.539 --> 00:59:52.019
healing community. I mean, it was really everyone's

00:59:52.019 --> 00:59:56.420
hands were tied in one way or another. The problem

00:59:56.420 --> 01:00:00.340
that we've really seen is that you're not going

01:00:00.340 --> 01:00:02.619
to get a lot of companies that are necessarily

01:00:02.619 --> 01:00:06.880
going to manufacture for a crypto project or

01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:09.460
really work with a crypto project because there's

01:00:09.460 --> 01:00:11.780
still a lot of stigma around it and they don't

01:00:11.780 --> 01:00:14.000
know if there's there's really reliability there

01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:17.420
in that market now we're seeing some good companies

01:00:17.420 --> 01:00:19.519
come along like seed studio they're excellent

01:00:19.519 --> 01:00:23.139
bobcat they had production in the past for different

01:00:23.139 --> 01:00:25.820
products but they've been an outstanding manufacturer

01:00:25.820 --> 01:00:33.389
and What we had were people who had really great

01:00:33.389 --> 01:00:36.869
development expertise, and some of them did own

01:00:36.869 --> 01:00:39.650
a hardware shop, but not that would be able to

01:00:39.650 --> 01:00:42.670
scale to the size that it needed, right in the

01:00:42.670 --> 01:00:45.809
middle of the chip shortage and pandemic, where

01:00:45.809 --> 01:00:47.869
everyone was having issues getting hardware.

01:00:48.329 --> 01:00:52.190
So there was mismanagement there. There was some

01:00:52.190 --> 01:00:58.639
dishonesty. I don't think that was a completely

01:00:58.639 --> 01:01:03.199
blatant scam. And it's really hard to say. It

01:01:03.199 --> 01:01:06.780
wasn't the network's fault. Yeah. And that's

01:01:06.780 --> 01:01:10.960
what I got to say. It's not the network's fault.

01:01:11.380 --> 01:01:14.500
And it's more than likely because there's like

01:01:14.500 --> 01:01:17.760
two manufacturers out of the four manufacturers

01:01:17.760 --> 01:01:22.420
of this kind of silicon product that were making

01:01:22.420 --> 01:01:25.739
them. And then they all of them were signing

01:01:25.739 --> 01:01:28.260
contracts with all these other helium miners.

01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:30.519
So they were only going, oh, well, we can only

01:01:30.519 --> 01:01:33.460
give you one tenth or one one hundredth of your.

01:01:33.519 --> 01:01:37.719
Yeah, that happens so bad. And it just screwed

01:01:37.719 --> 01:01:40.920
it like it. It screws the miners, though, like

01:01:40.920 --> 01:01:43.360
because because it was the miners that were buying

01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:46.059
them. Like it was it was the GPU miners that

01:01:46.059 --> 01:01:48.659
I knew that were buying them. It was I knew hundreds

01:01:48.659 --> 01:01:51.519
and hundreds and hundreds of them that had bought

01:01:51.519 --> 01:01:56.139
them. and and when that happens you're taking

01:01:56.139 --> 01:02:00.000
down a core infrastructure of the network so

01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:03.340
unless you're a dedicated helium person at that

01:02:03.340 --> 01:02:07.880
point you're not even gonna bother it's crazy

01:02:07.880 --> 01:02:11.179
isn't it it sucks because like that's why i said

01:02:11.179 --> 01:02:13.739
joe's gotta send me one so i can set it up at

01:02:13.739 --> 01:02:17.059
my farm so i can start building with it You know,

01:02:17.099 --> 01:02:19.980
I mean, it's like RAC and the CalChip situation.

01:02:20.320 --> 01:02:22.860
CalChip just sold without confirming. RAC had

01:02:22.860 --> 01:02:25.940
actually produced that many. Nebra, for example,

01:02:25.940 --> 01:02:28.400
didn't realize they can't get Pi 4s and had to

01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:30.760
go with Pi 3s. And they thought they could buy

01:02:30.760 --> 01:02:32.639
the concentrators from RAC, but they couldn't.

01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:34.340
They had to go source another manufacturer. They

01:02:34.340 --> 01:02:35.960
didn't test well enough. So when they rolled

01:02:35.960 --> 01:02:38.360
out, they were just horrible. And it just all

01:02:38.360 --> 01:02:40.980
hit at a time where... Pies are in short supplies

01:02:40.980 --> 01:02:43.059
because there was one manufacturer for a clock

01:02:43.059 --> 01:02:46.260
on the pie. And that one manufacturer had a warehouse

01:02:46.260 --> 01:02:49.199
fire right in the middle of COVID. So, you know,

01:02:49.219 --> 01:02:51.420
supply went ridiculous. And they had to make

01:02:51.420 --> 01:02:54.219
scrounge around and find parts and build solutions.

01:02:54.340 --> 01:02:57.280
And things took years. And really, they've had

01:02:57.280 --> 01:02:59.440
no comeuppance from that. But we've turned a

01:02:59.440 --> 01:03:01.800
lot of people away from Helium because of the

01:03:01.800 --> 01:03:04.579
situation so bad. When I started with Helium,

01:03:04.719 --> 01:03:07.400
you were still able to modify the Linksys routers.

01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:12.500
Yeah. And then... they nerfed that to instead

01:03:12.500 --> 01:03:15.760
go with the manufacturers so then you had other

01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:18.079
guys that had these likes that people were paying

01:03:18.079 --> 01:03:20.539
to get like the modified routers they were paying

01:03:20.539 --> 01:03:22.800
like five six seven hundred dollars to get them

01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:27.579
yeah and then now they don't do anything like

01:03:27.579 --> 01:03:30.619
they don't even i think i think that will get

01:03:30.619 --> 01:03:32.719
better you know i think i think the network will

01:03:32.719 --> 01:03:34.340
get better and people's earnings will improve

01:03:34.340 --> 01:03:37.239
i think we're on that way but right now helium

01:03:37.239 --> 01:03:41.800
as a project is solid and that's like that's

01:03:41.800 --> 01:03:44.360
that's what matters and it's just like there

01:03:44.360 --> 01:03:46.500
were fumbles at the beginning with manufacturing

01:03:46.500 --> 01:03:50.340
with like second resellers and like everyone

01:03:50.340 --> 01:03:53.579
pumping all these sales and then it's just like

01:03:53.579 --> 01:03:56.639
yeah i don't know i still believe in the network

01:03:56.639 --> 01:03:58.559
i just need a minor you want to send me one let's

01:03:58.559 --> 01:04:01.719
go you can you can get the cash i don't care

01:04:01.719 --> 01:04:03.760
i'll just freaking throw it up my tower maybe

01:04:03.760 --> 01:04:08.610
we'll talk after the stream I need a sit. My

01:04:08.610 --> 01:04:10.769
back's killing me. I was going to say, Joe, should

01:04:10.769 --> 01:04:12.389
I head off then if you're going to talk to these

01:04:12.389 --> 01:04:15.530
guys? It's been an hour. Thanks for coming on,

01:04:15.610 --> 01:04:20.809
Neil. No problem. We'll link up through Joe afterwards.

01:04:21.030 --> 01:04:22.809
Have a good one, man. No problem. Nice talking

01:04:22.809 --> 01:04:22.969
to you.