WEBVTT

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Today, we are joined by HiveMapper CEO, Ariel

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Seidman. Ariel, thanks for coming on. Thank you

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for having me, Brad. For sure. It has been a

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little while since we last spoke, but there's

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been a lot of developments, a lot of new changes,

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very exciting things happening. We're going to

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touch on all that. Of course, I think most people

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are going to want to know about the B. We will

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talk about all the nitty gritty details there,

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but definitely want to talk about the demand

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side because I would say HiveMapper is one of

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the few projects in the deep end space right

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now that's... truly seeing revenue and token

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burns and some exciting new contracts. But before

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we get into all that, for people that are watching

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for the first time, I'd love for you to give

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us a little bit about your background and what

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you're doing leading up to HiveMapper. Sure.

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Yeah. So my name is Ariel, CEO and co -founder

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of HiveMapper. I've been in and around the mapping

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world basically for 20 years now. So really my

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first job out of school. was at Yahoo when it

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was still fun to be at Yahoo. So I sat in the

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Yahoo search group. We had about 30 % market

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share. Google had roughly like 32, 35 % market

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share. So we were still very much neck and neck.

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And a massive percentage of the daily queries

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on Yahoo search were related to local, right?

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uh this could be a local pizza shop this could

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be like how do i get from here to here this could

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be i want to understand more about this you know

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country or region of the world or whatever it

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may be and so then i took ownership of all those

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type of queries and then ultimately ran yahoo

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maps which at its peak had about 90 percent market

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share um and then google maps came around and

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they started to really like just plow you know

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just crazy amounts of money into building their

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map And quite frankly, just took a lot of market

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share from us. And I had a front row seat to

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that. So I was able to kind of see and understand

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how they built the map. And while they did a

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good job, it was definitely over -engineered

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and it was a very, very expensive way to build

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the map. And I think there's a, especially now

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in this era with all the new technologies, tools,

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distribution, ubiquitous computing, all that.

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there's a new way to go build a map from the

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ground up and i think we even google i think

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if they were doing it today they would do it

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quite differently and so that's the opportunity

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with hive mappers like how do you build a new

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fresher more cost effective way to build a map

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from the ground up that all makes a lot of sense

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especially that you have the background in mapping

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I'm sure that has been really helpful in HiveMapper's

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success, especially talking about the revenue.

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And that's what I want to talk about next. So,

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yeah, if you could touch on the different categories,

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the opportunities when it comes to revenue. So,

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yeah, so there's there's three major categories.

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I mean, there's two that are active right now.

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So there's data solutions. Right. So we have

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a host of various API data products. uh and you

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know we set we go out to other businesses that

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want access to that data and some of those apis

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you know this can be another mapping company

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this can be a logistic company this can be a

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transportation company commercial real estate

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autonomous vehicle company etc so that's data

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solutions there's a new product called beekeeper

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which is going after you know quite frankly just

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a much larger market in commercial fleets right

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and so there's 250 million to 300 million commercial

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vehicles in the world and all of those commercial

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fleets obviously they're doing routes throughout

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the entire day they're going here they're going

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there whatever they're dropping off stuff picking

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up people etc uh that they want to protect that

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asset and they want that asset to be incredibly

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efficient And so we now have the opportunity

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to kind of rebuild from the ground up, given

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that we understand and see the world, you know,

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something that every other provider in this space

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just simply doesn't do because they don't have

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the mapping background. So we're very excited

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by that part. That's a huge market just getting

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started now. And then the third one, which is

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fairly nascent that you're going to see a lot

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more about next year is platforms, right? So

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how do other people utilize our software? They

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called map AI that actually builds the map integrated

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into many more vehicles, both in terms of contributing

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and consumption. And there's a lot more there

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to talk about. I'm not going to talk about it

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all today, but that's obviously a big focus of

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ours on the platform side. You just announced,

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I guess it was a couple of weeks ago that you

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have three new contracts and six figure contracts,

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right? Yeah. You know, most of these contracts

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that we're seeing today are in the data solutions

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category. Right. And so these are other. businesses

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integrating various data products into their

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systems. Okay. Could be other mapping companies.

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I think we've announced one of them, which is

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called HERE Technologies, which is owned by many

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of the large German car manufacturers like Audi

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and so forth. So that's one type of customer.

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The other is automotive companies. So this is

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the Lucids of the world, the Rivians of the world.

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You know, so you have kind of this new generation

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of automotive companies as well as some of the

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legacy automotive companies as well. And then

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you have, you know, what I would refer to as

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a smaller segment for sure, but it's like commercial

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real estate. We have a lot of like just real

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estate in general, like local government, those

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customers as well. That is definitely a smaller

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segment of the overall data solution. We're also

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seeing now traction in autonomous vehicles. know

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obviously tesla's a big player there obviously

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waymo's a big player there but what people don't

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realize is there's automotive there's av companies

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autonomous vehicle companies just focus on like

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trucking as an example right um but you have

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a lot of other players as well right you have

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nero you have zooks um you have mobileye to a

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certain extent as well i don't think that it's

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going to be a waymo tesla only game obviously

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they'll have a significant percentage of market

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share. Ultimately, if you kind of look out three

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to five years, but there will be all these other

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players as well. We can talk a little bit more

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about that. So that's where most of the revenues

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coming from is those kinds of categories and

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those types of customers today. I'm curious,

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you know, how those conversations have shifted

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since you first started with this, because I

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imagined at the beginning. and not to say you

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don't still do proof of concepts but i imagine

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at the beginning it was kind of pitching this

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idea now you kind of have case studies and a

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proven product yeah so i think those conversations

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have gotten easier over time yeah 100 right and

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i think like people look at the scale that we're

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operating at right now and i i will remember

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i mean this is kind of the funny part of discord

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is like uh people were like all those like data

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evals this is not this past summer i think it

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was like the previous summer like people were

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like going off on me and and hive mapper for

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that matter basically being like all those data

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evals you guys did like nothing ever came of

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them they were all you guys failed you know and

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i was looking at it and being like actually there's

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like contracts like there's yeah happening and

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yeah um so it was kind of like funny i was like

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okay like do it yeah two different worlds at

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the same time you have to remember most people

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haven't worked in like the startup space or worked

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in the business world to the extent of like having

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to build a product you start off you know with

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a proof of concept in many cases get in the door

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with these businesses and customers and then

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you know build bigger contracts over time bigger

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opportunities over time uh so you know in the

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crypto world everybody wants everything yesterday

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right so it's it's hard to kind of get people

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to wrap their head around that whole concept

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of actually building something i'll give you

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one i'll give you one example of a customer they

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started you know well i can't share the specific

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name but hopefully we will because we're been

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very helpful and valuable to them um which is

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which is great news so they started off with

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a purchase order i think in the tens of thousands

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of dollars and they thought that it was going

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to basically last them for you know whatever

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like nine months 12 months they basically used

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all of their credits within about two to three

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months um and and so they're they're happy right

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because they're getting tremendous value out

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of it and so now they're like oh geez we gotta

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like work on a much bigger contract for 2025.

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You know, all right, let's go like figure out

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how to scale up to your point about, yeah, you

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get in the door, you show the customer that you're

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really valuable and you're really useful. And

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I think what we've also learned in terms of the

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data solutions product is in addition to just

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providing like, hey, you can hit our API for

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all the imagery that you want or all the math

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features that you want. Customers are looking

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for changes. Right. And so they're looking for,

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hey. you know, tell me about whether or not that

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speed limit has changed. Tell me about whether

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or not there's, you know, road construction here.

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And if so, what's the impact, right? Tell me

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about whether or not that road construction is

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now gone, right? And so just think about all

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the changes that are happening. That is, you

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know, just honestly like 10 times more valuable

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than just like a data feed. of just massive amounts

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of data where they then have to kind of sift

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through and figure out what's interesting within

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that data feed yeah that that's one you know

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really interesting thing that we've learned from

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our customers the second thing is there's a lot

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of customers that are looking for you know very

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abnormal situations okay so this is a good one

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um you have a school bus right with like that

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little stop sign that comes up dynamically that's

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not a that's not a persistent stop sign right

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like to a normal you know av system that will

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oftentimes just like look like another stop sign

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right but it's not it's dynamic it's it's not

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it's not associated it's not fixed and so like

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really being able to understand these nuanced

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differences in the world is really valuable um

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or like hey somebody got into an accident in

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this scenario That type of data is incredibly

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valuable to a lot of the autonomous vehicle companies

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in terms of training their models. All that makes

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a lot of sense. And also, and we'll talk more

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about the B here in a little bit later in this,

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but having the edge processing, having that data

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more quickly and more real time, I think, well,

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I imagine will even make that data product better,

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right? And open up more doors for you guys on

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that end. Oh, 100%. The incremental revenue that

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is tied to the B is obviously like massive. And

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I don't think we quite fully appreciate how big

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it is. Because to your point is, it doesn't just

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lower costs, which was actually like one of the

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primary reasons we did the B was we're like,

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geez, like processing all of this data on the

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servers on AWS is crazy expensive. um so that

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was like the very very original motivation for

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it obviously we also realized we want this real

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-time data we want all of the processing at the

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edge so we can really much more dynamically understand

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what's going on in the world which talk more

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about what I mean by that because it does introduce

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a lot of new revenue opportunities and we're

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seeing that play out right now and so like you

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know I mean I think a lot of people understandably

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so and incredibly patient for the B we want to

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get this out there not only because we want to

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satisfy all the people who did the pre -orders

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uh and thank them for their patience but also

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because from a revenue perspective there's a

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lot of incremental revenue tied to the B And

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by the way, I do want to pull this up because

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I'm excited about the revenue that's going to

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be coming. But we've been seeing, I mean, you

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look at this growth in the honey burns right

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now. I have a couple other visuals here. This

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is a good one, too, that shows the growth over

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time. I really like this one because it shows

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it versus some of the other projects out there

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from a percentage growth standpoint. But, you

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know, you all are seeing. a lot of revenue growth

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and that's exactly what you want to see i mean

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to your point though too and i've seen some people

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that you know they're like well how come the

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burns are going up but the revenue is you know

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kind of up and down it's like well uh just because

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you're seeing the tokens being burned that's

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the data credits being used you know there are

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going to be companies that buy a lot of data

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credits at once and then use them over time so

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you might see some spikes in revenue right yeah

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i i think it's like you have customers that come

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in like you you definitely have some big customers

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that come in and you know do like fairly sizable

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orders and that can spike you know you know and

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then it kind of goes back to normal and then

00:12:39.019 --> 00:12:41.960
you have some some new new customers that come

00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:45.059
in and then boom they accelerate right and then

00:12:45.059 --> 00:12:48.039
again you see a spike so it will smooth out right

00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:51.340
like you know once you have like 50 to 100 big

00:12:51.340 --> 00:12:53.279
customers, then it will definitely smooth out

00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.759
over time. So I'm not too worried about that.

00:12:56.460 --> 00:12:58.460
It's just like the normal course of any sort

00:12:58.460 --> 00:13:01.100
of growth business. The other thing that will

00:13:01.100 --> 00:13:04.779
smooth this out is Beekeeper. Beekeeper is like

00:13:04.779 --> 00:13:07.539
a different type of, it's a subscription revenue

00:13:07.539 --> 00:13:12.399
product and it has different financial implications

00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:14.159
in terms of all that stuff that we're looking

00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:16.360
at right now. And that is actually the next category.

00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:19.649
Yeah. Let's talk about Beekeeper. Okay. So I

00:13:19.649 --> 00:13:21.429
have it pulled up here. Obviously this is for

00:13:21.429 --> 00:13:24.970
fleet management tools, but as opposed to a lot

00:13:24.970 --> 00:13:26.409
of fleet management tools out there, which by

00:13:26.409 --> 00:13:28.389
the way, I know a lot of business owners, they

00:13:28.389 --> 00:13:30.710
pay a lot of money for fleet management tools,

00:13:30.809 --> 00:13:33.789
but they don't generally have visual aspects

00:13:33.789 --> 00:13:37.169
of that. So with this, obviously you have a whole

00:13:37.169 --> 00:13:39.570
new type of data set, new insights you can provide.

00:13:39.830 --> 00:13:42.409
So yeah, I would love for you to talk about kind

00:13:42.409 --> 00:13:44.830
of your differentiators versus other. fleet management

00:13:44.830 --> 00:13:47.309
tools and just how big of an opportunity you

00:13:47.309 --> 00:13:49.470
think this is? Yeah, no, this is really big.

00:13:49.710 --> 00:13:52.230
I mean, so let's first define who the customer

00:13:52.230 --> 00:13:55.850
is and define what their problems are, right?

00:13:55.929 --> 00:13:57.710
And what they're trying to accomplish. So the

00:13:57.710 --> 00:14:01.570
customer is anybody, any business with call it

00:14:01.570 --> 00:14:04.309
10 vehicles all the way up to many, many thousands

00:14:04.309 --> 00:14:07.129
of vehicles, right? You know, the companies that

00:14:07.129 --> 00:14:09.190
have many, many thousands of vehicles that we

00:14:09.190 --> 00:14:11.289
all know, right? So that would be like the FedEx's

00:14:11.289 --> 00:14:14.750
of the world, the UPS's, even Pepsi. uh i think

00:14:14.750 --> 00:14:17.830
pepsi has something like 45 000 different vehicles

00:14:17.830 --> 00:14:20.070
right this would be like you know bigger trucks

00:14:20.070 --> 00:14:24.970
smaller delivery trucks etc um and so the number

00:14:24.970 --> 00:14:27.929
of vehicles that are attached to a commercial

00:14:27.929 --> 00:14:31.629
fleet is in the range of 250 million to 350 million

00:14:31.629 --> 00:14:35.889
globally so it's a lot and so what the the customer

00:14:35.889 --> 00:14:37.789
is trying to really solve is a couple of issues

00:14:37.789 --> 00:14:41.389
one is uh hey that's an expensive asset that

00:14:41.389 --> 00:14:44.389
i have right that vehicle itself if it gets into

00:14:44.389 --> 00:14:46.850
an accident you have obviously the vehicle itself

00:14:46.850 --> 00:14:49.429
but you also have the driver you know that could

00:14:49.429 --> 00:14:51.730
be a catastrophic situation right so they're

00:14:51.730 --> 00:14:54.970
trying it that's about safety obviously and so

00:14:54.970 --> 00:14:57.950
how do you keep the driver in safe situations

00:14:57.950 --> 00:15:00.610
as much as possible the second thing they're

00:15:00.610 --> 00:15:03.470
looking to do is optimize the cost efficiency

00:15:03.470 --> 00:15:05.970
of it right so if you send your driver down a

00:15:05.970 --> 00:15:08.240
road Which they're going to have to then circle

00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:10.860
back in because the road is closed or, you know,

00:15:10.860 --> 00:15:13.519
that type of vehicle, because it's too high or

00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.480
whatever the case may be, can actually access

00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:18.639
the delivery point or wherever they need to go.

00:15:18.940 --> 00:15:21.759
That is an inefficient use of that asset. Right.

00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:24.059
Or even more basic things. Hey, that road over

00:15:24.059 --> 00:15:25.860
there sucks and it's going to tear apart your

00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:28.240
car. Right. Because of all the road construction

00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:31.399
going on here. Here's how you can avoid it. Right.

00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:35.080
And then there's like, hey. If this vehicle is

00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:37.919
operating in places that it shouldn't be, right,

00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:40.159
either the driver is using it for personal reasons

00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:42.259
or the driver is taken into like neighborhoods

00:15:42.259 --> 00:15:44.220
or places that they shouldn't be going into,

00:15:44.419 --> 00:15:48.779
you know, I want to know about that, right? And

00:15:48.779 --> 00:15:52.019
so most of the existing systems today are what

00:15:52.019 --> 00:15:55.080
I would call nanny cams. So they're just basically

00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:57.419
there to annoy the driver, but they don't actually

00:15:57.419 --> 00:15:59.919
provide the driver with intelligence, with an

00:15:59.919 --> 00:16:02.279
understanding of what's happening. So for example,

00:16:02.830 --> 00:16:05.230
if you're a truck driver and you got to pull

00:16:05.230 --> 00:16:09.509
into a way station um that inspector can ruin

00:16:09.509 --> 00:16:12.169
your day and ruin your week right not because

00:16:12.169 --> 00:16:13.870
you're doing anything wrong but just like they

00:16:13.870 --> 00:16:16.090
got a thing they want to cause problems for you

00:16:16.090 --> 00:16:19.029
blah blah blah they got you know some quota to

00:16:19.029 --> 00:16:22.470
meet and so that's issue number one is like look

00:16:22.470 --> 00:16:25.350
if there's a way station they want a way around

00:16:25.350 --> 00:16:28.210
it right they want to know it's open a and if

00:16:28.210 --> 00:16:30.730
so they want the most efficient way around that

00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:33.559
Number two is they do have to stop, right, for

00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:36.039
whatever reason. They want to know, okay, how

00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:38.820
backed up is it, right? Are there two trucks

00:16:38.820 --> 00:16:41.679
there? Are there 20 trucks there? That's a meaningful

00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:44.539
difference in terms of how much time is this

00:16:44.539 --> 00:16:46.919
going to eat out. So let's talk about this in

00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:50.539
the context of the B. So the B, you know, it

00:16:50.539 --> 00:16:52.259
can do all the basic fleet monitoring stuff.

00:16:52.379 --> 00:16:54.879
That's not that hard, quite frankly. But the

00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:56.759
really cool part about it is that it can see

00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:59.399
and understand the world, right? So it can see,

00:16:59.460 --> 00:17:02.429
okay, that's a truck weigh station. okay that's

00:17:02.429 --> 00:17:06.430
open okay there's 18 trucks there right and so

00:17:06.430 --> 00:17:09.829
it really has that spatial intelligence of what's

00:17:09.829 --> 00:17:12.869
happening at a very specific location that can

00:17:12.869 --> 00:17:15.809
then be fed back into that driver that gives

00:17:15.809 --> 00:17:18.289
them valuable intelligence so it's not just a

00:17:18.289 --> 00:17:20.910
nanny cam anymore it's actually like something

00:17:20.910 --> 00:17:24.009
they want to use because it's providing them

00:17:24.009 --> 00:17:27.190
with real utility and so i think just because

00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:30.619
of where we started, which was like, we're fundamentally

00:17:30.619 --> 00:17:33.720
a mapping company. We have built this technology

00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:36.460
that enables us to see and understand the world

00:17:36.460 --> 00:17:38.619
and then feed that data back into the driver

00:17:38.619 --> 00:17:41.299
and back into the fleet manager. Okay. And that's,

00:17:41.299 --> 00:17:43.220
that's something I do want to dig in more on

00:17:43.220 --> 00:17:45.920
because, you know, it has been years now of you

00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:48.680
all building out these tools, doing the AI training,

00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:51.059
all of that. So how does, how does that work?

00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:53.339
That foundation you touched on a little bit,

00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:55.299
but digging a little bit more how that foundation

00:17:55.299 --> 00:17:58.099
helps. with this new product that you're launching?

00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:02.920
Yeah, it's a good question. Okay. So the AI training

00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:05.079
really serves two purposes. One is they're training

00:18:05.079 --> 00:18:08.819
all the data, right? So upfront, like in my example

00:18:08.819 --> 00:18:11.359
of the way station, you know, we need to train,

00:18:11.460 --> 00:18:13.140
we need to see many, many, many, many different

00:18:13.140 --> 00:18:15.319
examples of what a way station looks like, what

00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:17.220
a way station looks like when it's open and so

00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:20.839
forth. And so all of that is fed into these training,

00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:24.480
into these training models. and the data has

00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:27.559
been labeled by all these ai trainers that exist

00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:30.900
on our platform today and so our cost to actually

00:18:30.900 --> 00:18:33.940
produce the data and then the speed at which

00:18:33.940 --> 00:18:37.299
we can do the data as well has rapidly increased

00:18:37.299 --> 00:18:40.460
right so yeah we launched the ai trainer platform

00:18:40.460 --> 00:18:43.079
about two years ago and so now it's just it's

00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:44.980
a much more mature platform and you can just

00:18:44.980 --> 00:18:48.299
do a lot more labeling across many more objects

00:18:48.299 --> 00:18:50.779
and things in the world so that's step one once

00:18:50.779 --> 00:18:53.599
those models are trained up you know utilizing

00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:57.119
all this label data then they get deployed to

00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:59.660
the b and that will happen over the air right

00:18:59.660 --> 00:19:02.400
so you can start to make changes very quickly

00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:05.660
introduce new capabilities very quickly okay

00:19:05.660 --> 00:19:08.640
so what happens on the b the b does three things

00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:11.440
so first thing it does is obviously detect objects

00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:14.380
so it says okay i've been trained to look for

00:19:14.380 --> 00:19:17.720
speed limit signs or truck way stations or billboards

00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:21.000
or whatever it may be right and boom i got it

00:19:21.289 --> 00:19:24.029
that's that's a speed limit sign now we need

00:19:24.029 --> 00:19:26.509
to then position it right so we need to understand

00:19:26.509 --> 00:19:29.190
where it is in the three -dimensional world with

00:19:29.190 --> 00:19:33.069
the stereo depth cameras um that's that's the

00:19:33.069 --> 00:19:35.130
role of the stereo depth cameras are one of the

00:19:35.130 --> 00:19:37.329
roles the key roles is actually to then position

00:19:37.329 --> 00:19:40.049
all the objects and understand its relationship

00:19:40.049 --> 00:19:42.329
relative to everything else so like a turn restriction

00:19:42.329 --> 00:19:45.230
sign if you just know like oh there's a turn

00:19:45.230 --> 00:19:47.829
restriction sign That's not very helpful. You

00:19:47.829 --> 00:19:49.569
need to know where it is because you need to

00:19:49.569 --> 00:19:51.789
know which drive path it's actually associated

00:19:51.789 --> 00:19:56.250
with. The third piece about it is spatial intelligence.

00:19:56.869 --> 00:19:58.569
Maybe we'll come up with a better name for it.

00:19:58.710 --> 00:20:02.509
But the basic idea is, OK, it's yes, it's nice

00:20:02.509 --> 00:20:04.750
to know there's a truck way station over here.

00:20:04.869 --> 00:20:07.230
Here is where it's located. But now I want to

00:20:07.230 --> 00:20:09.349
know whether or not it's open. Right. I want

00:20:09.349 --> 00:20:11.690
to know how many trucks there are. Right. And

00:20:11.690 --> 00:20:14.130
so that's the spatial intelligence piece, which

00:20:14.130 --> 00:20:17.490
is incredibly valuable. and that's where we're

00:20:17.490 --> 00:20:20.589
utilizing a lot of the the new ai models that

00:20:20.589 --> 00:20:24.049
have come to bear is not just you know being

00:20:24.049 --> 00:20:26.650
able to detect objects position objects but also

00:20:26.650 --> 00:20:29.910
build a scene description and understanding of

00:20:29.910 --> 00:20:32.349
what's actually happening in that scene so all

00:20:32.349 --> 00:20:35.170
that data can be informed and sent back to these

00:20:35.170 --> 00:20:38.569
drivers and ultimately the fleets the fleet managers

00:20:38.569 --> 00:20:40.839
themselves Okay, that's really good context.

00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:43.000
And this is, again, this is a massive industry.

00:20:43.099 --> 00:20:45.640
I think it's close to $29 billion industry with

00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:47.779
fleet management somewhere around there. And

00:20:47.779 --> 00:20:49.660
I'd expect it's only going to grow. I'll say

00:20:49.660 --> 00:20:52.059
you're kind of opening the door for a new type

00:20:52.059 --> 00:20:53.960
of fleet management, I think. And I think with

00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:57.319
AI, especially having the ability to make this

00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:00.700
visual data really useful. Yeah. And we want

00:21:00.700 --> 00:21:02.279
to work with, you know, for example, there's

00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.640
a company in the logistics space and they said

00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:07.420
to us like, hey. you know what's really you know

00:21:07.420 --> 00:21:09.339
we'd love to deploy these right on our vehicles

00:21:09.339 --> 00:21:12.460
that's a so and then they start asking questions

00:21:12.460 --> 00:21:15.640
right it's pretty cool to see like hey uh you

00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:18.140
know what's a big problem for us um we're looking

00:21:18.140 --> 00:21:20.900
for very specific containers so they do like

00:21:20.900 --> 00:21:25.279
a a lot of pickups from ports all across the

00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:27.119
united states so like especially like in southern

00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:29.500
california as an example and then they drive

00:21:29.500 --> 00:21:31.099
them to like various places throughout southern

00:21:31.099 --> 00:21:33.779
california whether it be a train station or other

00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:36.890
delivery points etc okay and so they're like

00:21:36.890 --> 00:21:39.809
you know sometimes we lose track of a very specific

00:21:39.809 --> 00:21:42.789
container okay and so it's somewhere right like

00:21:42.789 --> 00:21:46.569
where we often and so the so the ability to then

00:21:46.569 --> 00:21:49.410
train these models to look for very specific

00:21:49.410 --> 00:21:53.390
things so they can find them is really cool right

00:21:53.390 --> 00:21:56.170
and so like you almost can imagine like these

00:21:56.170 --> 00:21:59.809
like specialized ai agents kind of traveling

00:21:59.809 --> 00:22:02.329
through these bees looking for very specific

00:22:02.329 --> 00:22:05.660
things that the customer needs in order to solve

00:22:05.660 --> 00:22:07.259
an underlying business problem that they have.

00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:10.180
And also, I mean, once you work with a business

00:22:10.180 --> 00:22:13.079
on a niche use case like this, this is something

00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:14.700
you can take to market with other companies too,

00:22:14.900 --> 00:22:18.220
right? So that's also pretty cool. And maybe

00:22:18.220 --> 00:22:20.339
look for like drones and nuclear waste in New

00:22:20.339 --> 00:22:25.660
Jersey or something. But so, yeah, so obviously

00:22:25.660 --> 00:22:29.240
this fleet manager, the beekeeper, that's a massive

00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:31.400
opportunity, man. Can I, do you want to, because

00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:34.119
I know a lot of your listeners are, they're they're

00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:36.420
just kind of individual contributors and i think

00:22:36.420 --> 00:22:38.420
there's this like tension right which is like

00:22:38.420 --> 00:22:41.680
hey they think they're gonna like compete i am

00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:43.740
not concerned by that and i say that with 100

00:22:43.740 --> 00:22:49.019
sincerity for a lot of reasons one is i mean

00:22:49.019 --> 00:22:51.740
just take a place like la right to do all of

00:22:51.740 --> 00:22:53.940
the layers of the map that we want to do like

00:22:53.940 --> 00:22:55.559
all the way up to like traffic and stuff like

00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:58.539
that we just need a lot more devices quite frankly

00:22:58.539 --> 00:23:02.759
and so you know we are nowhere near kind of reaching

00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:05.599
that saturation point and even with fleets you

00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:08.099
know and going aggressive with fleets i don't

00:23:08.099 --> 00:23:09.759
see that happening where we're going to reach

00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:11.839
that saturation point that that's number one

00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:16.339
number two is i i don't think it's healthy right

00:23:16.339 --> 00:23:20.859
to have a network where it's just a hundred percent

00:23:20.859 --> 00:23:24.799
commercial fleets you definitely want those individual

00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:28.069
contributors They just come with like a different

00:23:28.069 --> 00:23:30.690
set of passions and motivations that I think

00:23:30.690 --> 00:23:32.190
is really important in terms of just building

00:23:32.190 --> 00:23:35.630
up a community. So I don't view it as like competitive

00:23:35.630 --> 00:23:38.029
the way that some other people do. I think that

00:23:38.029 --> 00:23:41.269
they can both operate and be successful and they

00:23:41.269 --> 00:23:43.750
bring different things to the table. For sure.

00:23:43.910 --> 00:23:46.069
And, you know, having a little bit of diversification

00:23:46.069 --> 00:23:49.890
is not a bad thing. Plus, individual drivers

00:23:49.890 --> 00:23:53.150
are more likely to cover certain regions, certain

00:23:53.150 --> 00:23:54.890
roads that you might not get with commercial

00:23:54.890 --> 00:23:58.079
fleets. And the thing I'll add too is for people

00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:00.940
that are building a fleet, this is, we'll talk

00:24:00.940 --> 00:24:03.200
more about that when we talk about the B, but

00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:06.299
this is a huge opportunity, right? You can kind

00:24:06.299 --> 00:24:07.960
of tackle this from a couple of different ways,

00:24:07.980 --> 00:24:10.539
but A, it's going to be a lot easier to deploy

00:24:10.539 --> 00:24:13.460
into fleets, but also businesses, because in

00:24:13.460 --> 00:24:16.059
the past, there's been this kind of layer that

00:24:16.059 --> 00:24:17.700
you've had to work through with a business owner

00:24:17.700 --> 00:24:21.279
and then to the individual employees. Well, with

00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:23.119
the B, it's going to be a lot more seamless.

00:24:23.740 --> 00:24:24.819
They're just going to have to put it up there.

00:24:24.859 --> 00:24:26.400
You don't have to train them on the uploading

00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:29.079
of data, et cetera. But also you can use this

00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:31.740
tool, this beekeeper tool as maybe a sales tool

00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:34.940
to get deployed with some of these fleets. So

00:24:34.940 --> 00:24:37.799
I think for entrepreneurs that are looking to

00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:40.039
build out fleets, this is a game changer as well,

00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:42.750
in my opinion. Yeah, 100%. Like, I think it's

00:24:42.750 --> 00:24:44.309
just be a lot. I mean, there's, there's a lot

00:24:44.309 --> 00:24:46.750
of people that you would, I mean, you, you've

00:24:46.750 --> 00:24:49.109
said this, you know, to me many times, it's like,

00:24:49.109 --> 00:24:50.789
look, there's certain types of drivers, I just

00:24:50.789 --> 00:24:53.430
can't give the height map or dash cam to because

00:24:53.430 --> 00:24:56.190
like, they just, you know, it just won't work.

00:24:56.730 --> 00:25:00.470
Yeah. So like, all of a sudden, yes, the BLT

00:25:00.470 --> 00:25:03.309
definitely opens up that options where the number

00:25:03.309 --> 00:25:06.970
of people that you can, you know, onboard into

00:25:06.970 --> 00:25:09.500
your fleet is just, it's just much bigger. Absolutely.

00:25:09.819 --> 00:25:11.720
And I think that's good that you addressed that

00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:14.000
because I do feel like there was a sentiment

00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:16.599
there for a little bit that the focus was going

00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:18.480
completely to commercial fleets and completely

00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:20.660
away from the individual contributors. So that's

00:25:20.660 --> 00:25:23.539
certainly not the case. And I do think it's good

00:25:23.539 --> 00:25:25.900
to have a healthy mix of both moving forward.

00:25:25.940 --> 00:25:27.299
And I think that's what we'll see. So there's

00:25:27.299 --> 00:25:29.500
one more category to touch on as far as potential

00:25:29.500 --> 00:25:32.380
revenue looking further out. The third category

00:25:32.380 --> 00:25:35.490
is platform. Right. And so the idea there basically

00:25:35.490 --> 00:25:38.230
is there's some very early conversations, you

00:25:38.230 --> 00:25:41.589
know, with automotive companies about integrating

00:25:41.589 --> 00:25:47.069
the B software map AI into their vehicles. Right.

00:25:47.150 --> 00:25:49.930
So that their vehicles can both become contributors

00:25:49.930 --> 00:25:53.349
as well as consumers. That will take a while

00:25:53.349 --> 00:25:55.430
to kind of play out, obviously, because anybody

00:25:55.430 --> 00:25:57.509
that we're talking to now, we're literally talking

00:25:57.509 --> 00:26:00.490
to them about their 2029 models. Yeah. Right.

00:26:00.609 --> 00:26:04.579
And so. There's other types of companies that

00:26:04.579 --> 00:26:09.180
we're starting conversations with that are upfitters,

00:26:09.180 --> 00:26:10.920
right? So these are people like if you go and

00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:14.380
buy whatever, a thousand Ford commercial delivery

00:26:14.380 --> 00:26:17.539
vans from Ford, you then take it to a different

00:26:17.539 --> 00:26:20.200
company that basically outfits it with all of

00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:22.500
your technology, with your branding, with all

00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:26.119
of your little nuance configurations. So those

00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:28.000
type of companies are interesting because it's

00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:30.099
a faster timeline, right? Rather than it being

00:26:30.099 --> 00:26:32.910
2029. you know maybe we can do something with

00:26:32.910 --> 00:26:36.250
those guys in 2025 or 26 right where they're

00:26:36.250 --> 00:26:38.390
taking the underlying technology that exists

00:26:38.390 --> 00:26:41.710
within the b and kind of retrofitting it and

00:26:41.710 --> 00:26:44.009
integrating it much more deeply into the vehicle

00:26:44.009 --> 00:26:46.410
and so that's all about platform stuff so that's

00:26:46.410 --> 00:26:48.549
that's one aspect of the platform there's some

00:26:48.549 --> 00:26:50.690
other stuff on the platform stuff that i'm gonna

00:26:50.690 --> 00:26:53.750
hold back mentioning because it's a it's a big

00:26:54.460 --> 00:26:56.559
uh announcement that we're making with another

00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:59.460
crypto project in uh in the january time frame

00:26:59.460 --> 00:27:01.480
but i think it'll become clear as to like how

00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:05.119
that also is another aspect of what we're doing

00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:08.319
on the platform side okay cool yeah the automotive

00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:12.099
industry moves pretty pretty slowly so i i can

00:27:12.099 --> 00:27:15.059
you know 2029 That would make sense with the

00:27:15.059 --> 00:27:18.200
five years out. So but that could be a massive

00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:20.200
opportunity down the road. So it's good to start

00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:23.619
having those conversations now. Right. But the

00:27:23.619 --> 00:27:26.119
data solutions, fleet management tools, I mean,

00:27:26.140 --> 00:27:29.160
those are massive opportunities that you can

00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:32.559
start tackling today. And we're seeing it. That

00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:35.000
does bring me to one thing I want to bring up

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:38.599
real quick. This new. MIP, don't need to talk

00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:41.680
about this too long, but you guys, that's a 50

00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:44.720
% increase in the cost of data credits. So that

00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:48.000
should lead to certainly more revenue, more token

00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:51.220
burns. Yeah, that's true. I mean, the reason

00:27:51.220 --> 00:27:52.579
that we did it is pretty straightforward, which

00:27:52.579 --> 00:27:54.900
is like the MapImage API in terms of the amount

00:27:54.900 --> 00:27:59.859
of value that BMAPs Inc. or was previously HiveMapper

00:27:59.859 --> 00:28:05.059
Inc. is providing on top of the HiveMapper network.

00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:09.500
is is more limited right with something like

00:28:09.500 --> 00:28:12.099
beekeeper we're providing obviously and building

00:28:12.099 --> 00:28:15.599
a tremendous amount of value on top of the data

00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:18.920
that we're paying the high mapper Network for

00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:22.180
so there you know I think the the it'll be a

00:28:22.180 --> 00:28:25.140
little bit different but you know like let's

00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:27.440
say we're generating ten dollars sorry you know

00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:32.160
10 15 20 dollars of revenue per device from beekeeper

00:28:32.990 --> 00:28:34.730
you know, I think the split is going to be a

00:28:34.730 --> 00:28:36.990
little bit different, right? But in terms of

00:28:36.990 --> 00:28:40.230
the map image API, you know, we're obviously

00:28:40.230 --> 00:28:42.029
adding value on top of it. And then there's a

00:28:42.029 --> 00:28:44.009
sales cost, the support cost with the customer,

00:28:44.069 --> 00:28:46.049
all that type of stuff. But in terms of that

00:28:46.049 --> 00:28:48.789
product itself, you know, we thought it was just

00:28:48.789 --> 00:28:51.230
appropriate to like, you know, drive more value

00:28:51.230 --> 00:28:54.450
into the network. Okay. I mean, I like it, man.

00:28:54.470 --> 00:28:56.190
Anything that's going to be more revenue, more

00:28:56.190 --> 00:28:58.910
token burn is a good thing. All right. Let's

00:28:58.910 --> 00:29:02.220
pivot to the B. This is the topic I think most

00:29:02.220 --> 00:29:05.200
people are going to be interested in. We've got

00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:08.859
it. Here's the website there. But I also have

00:29:08.859 --> 00:29:11.700
some pictures here of some manufacturing that

00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:14.940
you posted. So progress is being made there.

00:29:17.059 --> 00:29:19.539
It looks like the finished product there. So

00:29:19.539 --> 00:29:22.819
what can you tell us about the B, the manufacturing?

00:29:23.940 --> 00:29:26.000
How are things looking right now? Things are

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:27.960
looking good. I mean, a lot better than they

00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:31.480
were back in June timeframe for sure. In the

00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:33.579
June timeframe, I'll just like share everything

00:29:33.579 --> 00:29:35.579
so everyone has the context on this. Yeah. In

00:29:35.579 --> 00:29:38.640
the like May, June timeframe, things were quite

00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:41.799
frankly just broken. They weren't working. And

00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:44.279
throughout the summer, we kind of stuck with

00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:46.849
it, stuck with it, stuck with it. and then in

00:29:46.849 --> 00:29:50.509
september the device we got more and more devices

00:29:50.509 --> 00:29:53.789
out there and the data that it was producing

00:29:53.789 --> 00:29:56.410
was excellent right and so what i described there

00:29:56.410 --> 00:29:59.490
in terms of being able to detect an object you

00:29:59.490 --> 00:30:01.609
know properly position the object understand

00:30:01.609 --> 00:30:04.589
kind of what dry path is associated with and

00:30:04.589 --> 00:30:08.150
then add that um spatial intelligence around

00:30:08.150 --> 00:30:12.680
it um starts to work and like you know, after

00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:14.680
a while, just kind of looking at the data kind

00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:16.559
of got boring. Cause like, obviously like you're

00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:19.160
looking for problems in the early days and it

00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:20.700
was boring. Cause like there was no problems.

00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:22.539
I don't want to say no problems, but there was

00:30:22.539 --> 00:30:26.539
like very few problems. Right. And so we're like,

00:30:26.660 --> 00:30:28.599
all right, this is pretty, this is pretty awesome.

00:30:29.150 --> 00:30:32.890
um so then now the focus has shifted on like

00:30:32.890 --> 00:30:35.450
okay how do we produce these and how do we produce

00:30:35.450 --> 00:30:37.890
them reliably how do we produce them cost effectively

00:30:37.890 --> 00:30:40.609
you know how do we make sure that everyone every

00:30:40.609 --> 00:30:43.089
single one that leaves the the manufacturing

00:30:43.089 --> 00:30:48.329
line has complete um and very thorough end -of

00:30:48.329 --> 00:30:50.809
-line testing for all the different things that

00:30:50.809 --> 00:30:54.470
we care about whether it be gps or gnss whether

00:30:54.470 --> 00:30:57.269
it be you know depth sensing whether it be compute

00:30:57.269 --> 00:31:01.039
whether it be you know thermal so there's just

00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:03.900
a tremendous amount of work happening you know

00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:07.119
this this past month to kind of gear up that

00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:11.220
production line so now i want to caution that

00:31:11.220 --> 00:31:13.319
the production line like any production line

00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:15.440
when you when you bring it up there's always

00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:17.180
going to be little issues right teething issues

00:31:17.180 --> 00:31:19.839
okay that needs to be fixed or that needs to

00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:23.059
be fixed etc so we are definitely not going to

00:31:23.059 --> 00:31:28.000
hit our full production daily output in december

00:31:28.539 --> 00:31:32.140
Okay. Probably not even in January. February

00:31:32.140 --> 00:31:34.940
is when I think we'll start to hit like our full

00:31:34.940 --> 00:31:38.960
production, you know, daily output. So the idea

00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:41.539
is that there are some shipping this month. There

00:31:41.539 --> 00:31:44.700
will be more shipping in January. Right. And

00:31:44.700 --> 00:31:47.400
then February is when you'll start to really

00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:51.200
see them kind of flying off the shelves in a

00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:54.059
much, much, much faster pace, quite frankly.

00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:56.519
How does the manufacturing capacity for the B?

00:31:57.130 --> 00:32:00.250
compared to the hdc xi and we talked about this

00:32:00.250 --> 00:32:02.769
a little bit before the manufacturing process

00:32:02.769 --> 00:32:05.609
itself some of the automation you've added um

00:32:05.609 --> 00:32:08.349
you know this time around is quite different

00:32:08.349 --> 00:32:11.349
and obviously it took some capital investment

00:32:11.349 --> 00:32:15.130
to get there but i'm curious you know what what

00:32:15.130 --> 00:32:17.289
that manufacturing process looks like and how

00:32:17.289 --> 00:32:19.849
it differs and then how that can lead to more

00:32:19.849 --> 00:32:23.150
production. So I think we hit a peak with the

00:32:23.150 --> 00:32:28.289
HTCs. We hit a peak of about 200 per day, maybe

00:32:28.289 --> 00:32:33.450
two 25 per day. We haven't proven it yet, but

00:32:33.450 --> 00:32:36.430
we are cautiously optimistic that we can get

00:32:36.430 --> 00:32:43.430
it to at least 375, 400, right? Maybe 500. And

00:32:43.430 --> 00:32:47.220
so. that's kind of where we're at in terms of

00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:50.779
just, and the question is why. And so there's

00:32:50.779 --> 00:32:55.819
fewer actual overall parts in the actual B than

00:32:55.819 --> 00:32:58.839
there were in the HTC, which is kind of crazy,

00:32:58.859 --> 00:33:03.480
but it's true. And so we've just been a lot more

00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:06.220
thoughtful in terms of when we're designing this

00:33:06.220 --> 00:33:08.769
thing, how do we design it for assembly? It's

00:33:08.769 --> 00:33:10.529
not just like we're going to design it. Quite

00:33:10.529 --> 00:33:14.150
frankly, with HTC, we didn't know exactly how

00:33:14.150 --> 00:33:16.349
many orders there were going to be. And so it's

00:33:16.349 --> 00:33:19.950
kind of crazy to invest a ton of money in terms

00:33:19.950 --> 00:33:21.509
of automating everything if there's only going

00:33:21.509 --> 00:33:24.190
to be like 3 ,000 or 4 ,000 or 5 ,000. With this,

00:33:24.230 --> 00:33:25.930
it was a lot more clear that there was going

00:33:25.930 --> 00:33:29.210
to be many, many, many tens of thousands of devices,

00:33:29.410 --> 00:33:31.849
hopefully hundreds of thousands of devices. So

00:33:31.849 --> 00:33:33.710
it made a lot more sense to actually spend it,

00:33:33.730 --> 00:33:35.769
spend the time to do it. There was also, let

00:33:35.769 --> 00:33:37.150
me just kind of get into a little bit more details

00:33:37.150 --> 00:33:40.670
here. Like in HTC, there was like this glue and

00:33:40.670 --> 00:33:44.410
it was very tedious to apply. And then like once

00:33:44.410 --> 00:33:45.789
you apply to you, you have to kind of wait for

00:33:45.789 --> 00:33:47.769
it to all cure and stuff like that. And so that

00:33:47.769 --> 00:33:50.369
chewed up a lot of additional time. Then we had

00:33:50.369 --> 00:33:54.009
issues in terms of, you know, the actual boxing

00:33:54.009 --> 00:33:56.890
itself, like the boxes that we had for the HTC

00:33:56.890 --> 00:33:59.930
were really challenging for our robot to actually

00:33:59.930 --> 00:34:03.349
kind of fold properly. So now we have a box that's

00:34:03.349 --> 00:34:06.390
much easier for a robot to do. um and so literally

00:34:06.390 --> 00:34:08.949
the robot at the very end of that of the process

00:34:08.949 --> 00:34:11.469
can take all the different parts that are going

00:34:11.469 --> 00:34:13.070
to go into the box so it's not just about the

00:34:13.070 --> 00:34:15.929
device itself but there's you know the core there's

00:34:15.929 --> 00:34:18.750
the adapter you know the the pamphlet all that

00:34:18.750 --> 00:34:21.789
type of stuff and they the robot puts it into

00:34:21.789 --> 00:34:24.730
the box and then closes the box right and so

00:34:24.730 --> 00:34:27.429
a human and i think they also put like the label

00:34:27.429 --> 00:34:29.650
sticker on top of it as well that stripping label

00:34:29.650 --> 00:34:32.389
thing yeah before you literally had one person

00:34:32.909 --> 00:34:36.210
or in some cases, a couple of people doing all

00:34:36.210 --> 00:34:38.849
of that. And now it's all automated and you can

00:34:38.849 --> 00:34:41.269
scale it up to infinity or that specific step.

00:34:41.489 --> 00:34:44.690
So that's one little detailed example of kind

00:34:44.690 --> 00:34:46.550
of how we've just been a lot more thoughtful

00:34:46.550 --> 00:34:49.369
about how do you actually build this so that

00:34:49.369 --> 00:34:52.389
we can scale it. Yeah, that's huge. And that's

00:34:52.389 --> 00:34:55.909
exciting that you are able to scale. And I think

00:34:55.909 --> 00:34:58.309
it's fascinating to understand kind of the manufacturing

00:34:58.309 --> 00:35:00.889
process because, you know, there's a lot of people

00:35:00.889 --> 00:35:02.550
that are out there and be like, oh, yeah, sure.

00:35:02.670 --> 00:35:04.690
They're going to scale production. It's like,

00:35:04.829 --> 00:35:06.469
OK, well, this is how they're doing it. So I

00:35:06.469 --> 00:35:08.110
think it's important to go through that. I do

00:35:08.110 --> 00:35:10.389
want to talk about and we've touched on this

00:35:10.389 --> 00:35:13.130
a little bit already, but the features. OK, the

00:35:13.130 --> 00:35:16.329
difference between the HTC and the B and how

00:35:16.329 --> 00:35:18.510
that's going to improve the quality of data.

00:35:19.130 --> 00:35:20.909
also with the edge processing then talk about

00:35:20.909 --> 00:35:23.090
you know the lte side of things and the value

00:35:23.090 --> 00:35:25.469
and getting that data uploaded faster yeah there's

00:35:25.469 --> 00:35:29.949
a lot there so um uh let's start with with the

00:35:29.949 --> 00:35:32.690
positioning right and so you know at the end

00:35:32.690 --> 00:35:35.309
of the day you have to have excellent positioning

00:35:35.309 --> 00:35:38.070
of the device because if the device isn't properly

00:35:38.070 --> 00:35:41.469
localized in the real physical world then even

00:35:41.469 --> 00:35:43.789
if you have amazing object detection even if

00:35:43.789 --> 00:35:46.510
you have you know amazing spatial intelligence

00:35:46.510 --> 00:35:49.619
everything is going to be off right There's some

00:35:49.619 --> 00:35:51.300
things that you can do to correct that, obviously,

00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:55.420
but getting that positioning, you know, what

00:35:55.420 --> 00:35:58.320
we consider high quality is lane level positioning,

00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:02.480
okay? Which is anywhere in the range of, I mean,

00:36:02.500 --> 00:36:04.199
people have different definitions of this. You

00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:05.559
know, some people think that's five centimeters.

00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:08.239
I don't think you, in our use case, at least,

00:36:08.260 --> 00:36:11.500
we don't need five centimeters. You know, maybe,

00:36:11.639 --> 00:36:13.659
you know, down the road we will, but definitely

00:36:13.659 --> 00:36:17.639
not right now. But we feel very comfortable if

00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:21.320
we're at air 50 centimeters one way or another,

00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:25.199
right? And we're seeing that. And we're seeing

00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:28.460
that pretty reliably across most of the devices

00:36:28.460 --> 00:36:31.639
in most of the different regions. There's definitely

00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:33.960
still going to be issues where like, you know,

00:36:33.980 --> 00:36:36.539
you're downtown San Francisco or some other area

00:36:36.539 --> 00:36:39.440
that you're not going to get 50 centimeter lane

00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:42.989
level positioning, right? um because of the multi

00:36:42.989 --> 00:36:46.150
-path issue but anyways that positioning on this

00:36:46.150 --> 00:36:48.409
device is just far superior to anything that

00:36:48.409 --> 00:36:50.949
we've seen um you know quite frankly like i would

00:36:50.949 --> 00:36:53.789
like to have this in my phone because it's just

00:36:53.789 --> 00:36:57.170
so much better that's number one number two is

00:36:57.170 --> 00:37:02.949
that the combination of the main imager you know

00:37:02.949 --> 00:37:06.429
with the compute to be able to do just a tremendous

00:37:06.429 --> 00:37:09.989
number of object detections um and be able to

00:37:09.989 --> 00:37:13.190
utilize many many more frames than we previously

00:37:13.190 --> 00:37:16.090
were with the hdc so the hdc have maxed out at

00:37:16.090 --> 00:37:19.230
roughly like eight to nine frames per second

00:37:19.230 --> 00:37:22.829
some case cases 10 or 11. here we're dealing

00:37:22.829 --> 00:37:25.909
with 30 frames per second and so that means is

00:37:25.909 --> 00:37:28.369
that we just have many many more more opportunities

00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:32.019
to actually detect objects across many more different

00:37:32.019 --> 00:37:34.539
frames right and so especially when you're starting

00:37:34.539 --> 00:37:37.320
to travel at high speeds that can become an issue

00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:39.039
when you're only dealing with like eight or nine

00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:41.400
ten frames per second and then obviously the

00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:43.920
stereo depth cameras so we did have stereo depth

00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:46.559
cameras on the s model and we learned a lot from

00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:50.280
them um the biggest issue with the previous generation

00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.719
was the baseline which is basically the width

00:37:53.719 --> 00:37:56.800
between them was not wide enough um and then

00:37:56.800 --> 00:38:00.340
the second issue is the the quality of the of

00:38:00.340 --> 00:38:02.699
the imagers themselves or the stereo images themselves

00:38:02.699 --> 00:38:07.219
so we increase the resolution on those two in

00:38:07.219 --> 00:38:10.880
the in the b to i think 800p um and then it's

00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:13.780
wider i think it's 13 centimeters so that's why

00:38:13.780 --> 00:38:17.320
the device is wide so basically the device is

00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:22.280
thin but wide so the reason for the width has

00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:24.639
everything to do with the stereo depth cameras

00:38:25.539 --> 00:38:29.280
And what we did was we tried to shrink it down

00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:32.920
in terms of height so that just in terms of installing

00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:36.280
it, like we felt, and we'll see what the community

00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:39.059
feels, we felt that it was better to be thin

00:38:39.059 --> 00:38:41.679
so that it didn't obstruct your view, right?

00:38:41.739 --> 00:38:43.539
The big issue with the height map or dash cam

00:38:43.539 --> 00:38:49.099
was like, it was just like a block, right? And

00:38:49.099 --> 00:38:52.239
it obstructed your view. And so we feel like,

00:38:52.260 --> 00:38:54.579
yes, we've increased the width. but we've made

00:38:54.579 --> 00:38:58.260
the thing. It's actually 20 % thinner than the

00:38:58.260 --> 00:39:01.980
S, which was already pretty thin as far as dash

00:39:01.980 --> 00:39:04.840
cams come. Yeah, no, I think it's good to understand,

00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:08.599
A, the learnings from some of the prior manufacturing,

00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:11.559
the new features, how the quality of data is

00:39:11.559 --> 00:39:13.199
going to get better. I do want to talk about

00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:15.769
the LTE. because i mean there are still some

00:39:15.769 --> 00:39:17.869
questions about that i'm seeing out there about

00:39:17.869 --> 00:39:20.469
you know what the cost of lte is i knew for one

00:39:20.469 --> 00:39:22.769
thing though with the edge processing you know

00:39:22.769 --> 00:39:26.389
the goal is to select the data that's valuable

00:39:26.389 --> 00:39:28.969
and upload that data instead of having to upload

00:39:28.969 --> 00:39:31.789
everything right uh is that that's still yes

00:39:31.789 --> 00:39:34.590
the plan okay that should help as far as how

00:39:34.590 --> 00:39:37.889
much data needs to be uploaded but um yeah i

00:39:37.889 --> 00:39:39.550
mean that opened the door for you to talk about

00:39:39.550 --> 00:39:42.230
the lte versus the wi -fi is the wi -fi still

00:39:42.230 --> 00:39:44.650
in part know part of the plan moving forward

00:39:44.650 --> 00:39:48.389
or not and then uh you know cost of the lte the

00:39:48.389 --> 00:39:52.929
lte uh model um both models will do this but

00:39:52.929 --> 00:39:54.690
definitely the lt model will be more aggressive

00:39:54.690 --> 00:39:59.889
in terms of selecting only the data that it absolutely

00:39:59.889 --> 00:40:02.489
wants for the purposes of building the map right

00:40:02.489 --> 00:40:05.829
so let's let's break this into categories so

00:40:05.829 --> 00:40:08.190
obviously the heaviest data is basically like

00:40:08.190 --> 00:40:11.630
all imagery right um and so that's obviously

00:40:11.630 --> 00:40:13.369
what the high member dash cam did was just like

00:40:13.369 --> 00:40:16.329
all the imagery got uploaded so that that's a

00:40:16.329 --> 00:40:19.550
lot of data to go through the lte then there

00:40:19.550 --> 00:40:23.809
is uh map features so in other words speed limit

00:40:23.809 --> 00:40:25.670
sign stop sign turn restriction sign everything

00:40:25.670 --> 00:40:27.829
you see around it that's what we refer to as

00:40:27.829 --> 00:40:31.130
just like the map feature metadata and then the

00:40:31.130 --> 00:40:33.829
map feature metadata may also be combined with

00:40:33.829 --> 00:40:36.389
what's referred to as an image chip right which

00:40:36.389 --> 00:40:40.150
is just imagine okay that speed limit sign you

00:40:40.150 --> 00:40:43.610
know with a little bit of context around it right

00:40:43.610 --> 00:40:45.949
so not the entire image itself but just like

00:40:45.949 --> 00:40:48.710
that object with a little bit of context around

00:40:48.710 --> 00:40:50.389
it so you can understand where it is and all

00:40:50.389 --> 00:40:52.469
that type of stuff and so that that's a little

00:40:52.469 --> 00:40:53.989
bit heavier obviously because now you're dealing

00:40:53.989 --> 00:40:57.090
with pixels which are obviously heavier um but

00:40:57.090 --> 00:41:01.789
still a tiny tiny fraction of uploading all imagery

00:41:02.190 --> 00:41:05.289
And then the third thing is what's referred to

00:41:05.289 --> 00:41:08.329
as AI event detections. So this is the vehicle

00:41:08.329 --> 00:41:11.670
got into some sort of weird situation. Like imagine

00:41:11.670 --> 00:41:15.590
a kid running into the street, chasing a ball,

00:41:15.809 --> 00:41:20.110
you slam on the brakes, the car starts to aggressively

00:41:20.110 --> 00:41:22.309
shake and all that type of crazy stuff. That

00:41:22.309 --> 00:41:24.670
would be considered an AI event detection, harsh

00:41:24.670 --> 00:41:29.159
braking. And then it would upload. a video segment

00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:31.960
of anywhere between 10 seconds all the way up

00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:34.000
to about 90 seconds. So it depends on what the

00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:36.940
issue is. So that's the third category. Obviously,

00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:39.360
that can be heavy, but there's not that many

00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:40.719
of them. That doesn't happen that frequently.

00:41:41.340 --> 00:41:43.619
So those are the three categories. And so what's

00:41:43.619 --> 00:41:47.099
really happening is that the LTE model specifically

00:41:47.099 --> 00:41:51.800
is managing how much data can't just upload.

00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:54.579
know tens upon tens of gigs every single month

00:41:54.579 --> 00:41:57.559
that's crazy and so it's trying to manage all

00:41:57.559 --> 00:42:00.460
those three and say okay i need to make sure

00:42:00.460 --> 00:42:02.920
that i have enough for ai event sections right

00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:06.340
so like i don't want to use too much of my quota

00:42:06.340 --> 00:42:10.179
you know of my quota uh you know metadata for

00:42:10.179 --> 00:42:12.880
map features it's like you can almost send unlimited

00:42:12.880 --> 00:42:15.480
right because it's such a limited amount of data

00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:19.099
that you know like every single one boom you

00:42:19.099 --> 00:42:22.579
can you can upload you know metadata plus image

00:42:22.579 --> 00:42:24.960
chip okay you need to be a little bit more cautious

00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:27.699
but not crazy cautious and then the thing that

00:42:27.699 --> 00:42:29.760
you need to be the most cautious about is imagery

00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:33.119
right and so that's how we kind of think about

00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:35.480
it and you know just quite frankly is i think

00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:38.079
it'll be a con i don't know constant but i think

00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:41.199
at least for the first four to six months of

00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:43.539
this process, I think that we'll be constantly

00:42:43.539 --> 00:42:47.500
tuning this, right? To make sure that we're being

00:42:47.500 --> 00:42:50.719
very, very efficient with that LTE pipe, because

00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:53.920
we know it's valuable and we know it's costly,

00:42:54.019 --> 00:42:56.960
right? We're not, you know, we don't want to

00:42:56.960 --> 00:42:59.500
be cavalier about this. Yeah, I imagine that

00:42:59.500 --> 00:43:01.980
there's, you know, a fine line or kind of this

00:43:01.980 --> 00:43:04.619
dance, right? You don't want to... pull too much

00:43:04.619 --> 00:43:06.239
data but you also don't want to miss out on the

00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:08.940
valuable data at the same time right so it will

00:43:08.940 --> 00:43:11.960
take some fine tuning as far as the the lte plans

00:43:11.960 --> 00:43:15.039
go you know is this something that is going to

00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:17.440
be open for you to use like helium if you want

00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:19.659
or you know 18t i mean are people going to have

00:43:19.659 --> 00:43:22.119
options do you have any idea what the cost is

00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:24.780
yeah so in the us for sure like you can use helium

00:43:24.780 --> 00:43:28.929
um you can use t -mobile for sure and you know

00:43:28.929 --> 00:43:31.269
AT &T I think will probably take AT &T and Verizon

00:43:31.269 --> 00:43:32.730
probably take a little bit longer because they

00:43:32.730 --> 00:43:35.449
have like a long process in terms of like you

00:43:35.449 --> 00:43:38.409
know going through their crazy it's not crazy

00:43:38.409 --> 00:43:40.889
but it's they need to validate the device won't

00:43:40.889 --> 00:43:43.570
cause them any problems fundamentally Europe

00:43:43.570 --> 00:43:46.849
is actually a lot easier Europe is uh I think

00:43:46.849 --> 00:43:49.510
the big player there is Vodafone so like any

00:43:49.510 --> 00:43:53.920
any network that is on vodafone should work you

00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:56.420
know immediately no issues they don't have like

00:43:56.420 --> 00:43:59.940
a complicated validation process at all um you

00:43:59.940 --> 00:44:02.559
know some of the other carriers i'd have to kind

00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:05.940
of look at it one by one um but australia was

00:44:05.940 --> 00:44:08.300
the other one they were were prioritizing i forgot

00:44:08.300 --> 00:44:09.880
which one we chose i think it's on the website

00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:13.360
actually um under tech specs you'll see like

00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:16.780
by country or region you know which are the supported

00:44:16.780 --> 00:44:21.099
ones the short version is asia uh and europe

00:44:21.099 --> 00:44:25.019
are easier in terms of like us validating um

00:44:25.019 --> 00:44:30.219
north you know canada mexico us and australia

00:44:30.219 --> 00:44:32.460
are harder that's like the short version of it

00:44:32.460 --> 00:44:34.619
uh but we want people to obviously have as much

00:44:34.619 --> 00:44:37.460
choice as possible as far as like the cost of

00:44:37.460 --> 00:44:39.519
monthly plan do you have any idea you know what

00:44:39.519 --> 00:44:41.719
that looks like as far as how much data will

00:44:41.719 --> 00:44:44.360
be needed yeah it's a good question mean we've

00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:46.880
seen i've shared some data about this in discord

00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:49.519
so i think there is like some data floating around

00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:51.699
there right and then people can then say i think

00:44:51.699 --> 00:44:53.719
it was like a couple of gigs per month right

00:44:53.719 --> 00:44:56.079
like two two gigs per month or three gigs per

00:44:56.079 --> 00:44:58.260
month but it's all there in the discord channel

00:44:58.260 --> 00:45:01.280
under b device um that was some relatively preliminary

00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:03.980
but it's actually it seems to be holding you

00:45:03.980 --> 00:45:06.840
know look i i just think realistically there's

00:45:06.840 --> 00:45:09.380
no world in which like we can get people nor

00:45:09.380 --> 00:45:11.380
does it make sense to say like oh you need like

00:45:11.380 --> 00:45:13.900
a 10 gig plan that's just you know kind of off

00:45:13.900 --> 00:45:16.579
the table for us like we wouldn't um and i don't

00:45:16.579 --> 00:45:18.880
think that's necessary either i think we're looking

00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:22.000
to try to keep it within like one to four gigs

00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:25.059
per month that will obviously vary a lot by like

00:45:25.059 --> 00:45:26.760
where you're driving and a whole bunch of other

00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:29.679
factors how much you're driving etc but that's

00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:31.380
kind of the sweet spot that we're looking at

00:45:31.380 --> 00:45:34.559
so that people can say okay you know this data

00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:37.019
plan that i have is you know depending upon which

00:45:37.019 --> 00:45:39.579
part of the world it's you know 10 bucks a month

00:45:39.579 --> 00:45:42.239
it's 15 bucks a month it's 20 bucks a month that's

00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:44.039
kind of like where we would like it to be and

00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:47.539
then as far as The Wi -Fi version. Originally,

00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:51.780
it seems like you're pushing more for the LTE.

00:45:51.900 --> 00:45:54.119
Is the Wi -Fi version still in the plans moving

00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:56.159
forward? Are you guys potentially scrapping that?

00:45:56.300 --> 00:45:58.239
What does that look like moving forward, the

00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:00.900
LTE versus the Wi -Fi version? Yeah. I mean,

00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:04.599
okay, here's my perspective. Are there scenarios

00:46:04.599 --> 00:46:08.900
where the Wi -Fi version makes sense? Yes. I

00:46:08.900 --> 00:46:10.519
think a couple of people in the Discord community

00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:12.980
have been pretty adamant. Like, look. you know

00:46:12.980 --> 00:46:16.760
i can do a hot spot i already have other um yeah

00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:18.980
i'm a professional truck driver or whatever it

00:46:18.980 --> 00:46:23.519
may be and i already have existing uh lt connections

00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:27.599
in my car or my vehicle i can just do a quick

00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:30.019
hot spot from my wi -fi from the you know from

00:46:30.019 --> 00:46:32.579
the b wi -fi version to this why do you know

00:46:32.579 --> 00:46:36.559
why are you forcing me to pay for another lt

00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:39.039
plan when i don't really need it right i think

00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:43.460
that's reasonable okay i think that's not the

00:46:43.460 --> 00:46:48.239
vast majority of people also and so my take on

00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:51.019
this is yes the wi -fi has a place in the world

00:46:51.019 --> 00:46:53.300
or there are some places in the world where lte

00:46:53.300 --> 00:46:55.820
connections still suck unfortunately or they're

00:46:55.820 --> 00:46:58.820
just outrageously expensive right again there

00:46:58.820 --> 00:47:02.239
are there is a role for the wi -fi but i would

00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:04.820
like to see the wi -fi version be a minority

00:47:04.820 --> 00:47:07.219
percentage of the overall network and explain

00:47:07.219 --> 00:47:09.659
to you why I'm going to put the perspective of

00:47:09.659 --> 00:47:11.980
the map, right? So if you look at it in the perspective

00:47:11.980 --> 00:47:13.960
of the map, obviously it wants real -time data,

00:47:14.099 --> 00:47:18.059
right? And it wants to know like every hour and

00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:21.420
every day that assuming there's X number of drivers

00:47:21.420 --> 00:47:25.280
on the road, that those drivers are all uploading

00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:29.000
real -time. With LTE, that's a pretty good assumption,

00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:31.900
right? Like if you have, you know, let's just

00:47:31.900 --> 00:47:35.659
take LA, if there are 5 ,000 devices that are

00:47:35.659 --> 00:47:39.260
on the road every single day, in the LA region,

00:47:39.539 --> 00:47:42.880
each driving an average of three hours per day,

00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:46.340
whatever it is, you can rest assured that if

00:47:46.340 --> 00:47:49.579
the vast majority of those are LTE, then you

00:47:49.579 --> 00:47:51.519
can be rest assured that you're going to be getting

00:47:51.519 --> 00:47:55.539
real -time data from all of those. Now let's

00:47:55.539 --> 00:47:59.599
invert that. So now let's say that 90 % of those

00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:02.559
devices in LA, of those 5 ,000 active devices

00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:07.190
in LA, are all Wi -Fi. OK, some of them may be

00:48:07.190 --> 00:48:09.929
uploading real time. Some of them may not. Right.

00:48:10.070 --> 00:48:13.369
But you just don't know. Right. Some days people

00:48:13.369 --> 00:48:15.849
are doing the hotspot thing and sure you're getting

00:48:15.849 --> 00:48:18.050
the real time data, which is great. But other

00:48:18.050 --> 00:48:20.449
times they're not for whatever reason. Or some

00:48:20.449 --> 00:48:22.889
of them don't do the hotspot at all. Right. And

00:48:22.889 --> 00:48:24.510
then they're just getting they're uploading their

00:48:24.510 --> 00:48:26.389
data an hour, two hour, three hour, four hours

00:48:26.389 --> 00:48:28.769
later, whatever it may be. That fundamentally

00:48:28.769 --> 00:48:33.289
breaks the system when it comes to, you know,

00:48:33.289 --> 00:48:36.840
doing all layers of the map. So that's my perspective.

00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:41.579
A lot of people will try to argue with that in

00:48:41.579 --> 00:48:44.159
terms of like, if my device is providing real

00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:46.900
-time data from a Wi -Fi, why does it matter

00:48:46.900 --> 00:48:50.460
to you? That's correct for that specific device,

00:48:50.539 --> 00:48:52.860
but you have to look at it as a network as a

00:48:52.860 --> 00:48:56.360
whole, which if you have a Wi -Fi device, I am

00:48:56.360 --> 00:48:58.710
very confident. And I've seen this in the data

00:48:58.710 --> 00:49:02.489
because we have the data today that the vast

00:49:02.489 --> 00:49:04.710
majority of them are not uploading real time.

00:49:04.829 --> 00:49:07.929
There is going to be a difference in rewards,

00:49:08.070 --> 00:49:11.289
though, between the LTE and both the HDC and

00:49:11.289 --> 00:49:13.329
the Wi -Fi. Do you have any idea right now or

00:49:13.329 --> 00:49:15.329
is that still kind of being figured out what

00:49:15.329 --> 00:49:18.150
the difference will be roughly in the reward

00:49:18.150 --> 00:49:22.190
allocation? So the short version is that I think

00:49:22.190 --> 00:49:25.079
the best approach that I've seen. is you know

00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:28.380
one that i think mishmir and then josh also kind

00:49:28.380 --> 00:49:30.099
of chimed in as well it's kind of a combination

00:49:30.099 --> 00:49:33.019
of a couple different ideas but basically if

00:49:33.019 --> 00:49:35.119
you're driving with a wi -fi version it will

00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:38.179
basically say okay if that wi -fi version was

00:49:38.179 --> 00:49:41.599
uploading at least let's call it like 95 of the

00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:45.039
time for that period for that weekly period uh

00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:49.079
it was uploading um in real time then that will

00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:53.820
be treated like almost like an lte version right

00:49:53.820 --> 00:49:57.179
now with the caveat that because the lt version

00:49:57.179 --> 00:49:59.460
is a little bit more expensive right both in

00:49:59.460 --> 00:50:01.219
terms of the cost of the device as well as the

00:50:01.219 --> 00:50:04.119
lt plan i think that one should still earn a

00:50:04.119 --> 00:50:07.679
little bit more but the wi -fi version will get

00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:10.900
pretty damn close to the lt version assuming

00:50:10.900 --> 00:50:15.239
that it is uploading you know at least 95 of

00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:18.579
its data in real time throughout the entire week

00:50:18.579 --> 00:50:21.920
and so what that does is it addresses the problem

00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:26.519
of okay this device we don't want devices that

00:50:26.519 --> 00:50:28.260
are kind of you know one day they're uploading

00:50:28.260 --> 00:50:30.619
real time the next day they're not like that

00:50:30.619 --> 00:50:34.239
inconsistency is what we're trying to head off

00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:36.800
and so this incentivizes people to basically

00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:41.460
be consistent and so you know maybe the the hot

00:50:41.460 --> 00:50:43.400
spot you know like hey you already have a fixed

00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:46.679
lte thing in there boom it's hot spotted into

00:50:46.679 --> 00:50:48.860
that boom every time you get into the vehicle

00:50:48.860 --> 00:50:52.789
it all works and it's uploading okay Again, I

00:50:52.789 --> 00:50:55.670
think that's a minority of users, but if that's

00:50:55.670 --> 00:50:58.289
what's working for you, then yes, you'll earn

00:50:58.289 --> 00:51:01.710
pretty close to an LTE, but not 100 % of the

00:51:01.710 --> 00:51:04.710
LTE. That's good. I'm sure people were wondering

00:51:04.710 --> 00:51:07.010
about that. The last thing before we move on

00:51:07.010 --> 00:51:10.650
from the B, there's been talk off and on about

00:51:10.650 --> 00:51:12.829
the potential for mapping at night. Is that something

00:51:12.829 --> 00:51:14.690
you're still looking at? Yeah. oh definitely

00:51:14.690 --> 00:51:16.650
i mean it won't upload imagery i mean it won't

00:51:16.650 --> 00:51:18.690
it won't use the imagery at night but in terms

00:51:18.690 --> 00:51:20.550
of being able to detect objects okay so here's

00:51:20.550 --> 00:51:23.789
what we're seeing in the test is that uh if you're

00:51:23.789 --> 00:51:27.409
in a city right with just a lot of light from

00:51:27.409 --> 00:51:29.690
you know the street lights and all the buildings

00:51:29.690 --> 00:51:32.050
and all that type of stuff then you can actually

00:51:32.050 --> 00:51:35.510
get a fair amount of the objects etc right uh

00:51:35.510 --> 00:51:39.409
if you're driving in a rural area with no you

00:51:39.409 --> 00:51:43.860
know city lights street lights etc then you generally

00:51:43.860 --> 00:51:46.820
just get what's directly in front of you. In

00:51:46.820 --> 00:51:49.079
other words, you know, the light from the vehicles

00:51:49.079 --> 00:51:51.119
lighting up the signs and all the other type

00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:55.159
of stuff, you know, that is when you can, you

00:51:55.159 --> 00:51:57.360
know, you'll start to be able to detect those

00:51:57.360 --> 00:51:59.579
types of stuff. So there will be differences

00:51:59.579 --> 00:52:04.059
based upon where you're driving in terms of probably

00:52:04.059 --> 00:52:06.619
your total rewards. But yeah, like we definitely

00:52:06.619 --> 00:52:08.199
want people driving a night with this thing.

00:52:08.320 --> 00:52:10.340
There's a lot of value in terms of like, you

00:52:10.340 --> 00:52:12.190
know. crazy shit happens at night, right? Like

00:52:12.190 --> 00:52:13.829
road construction happens at night. A lot of

00:52:13.829 --> 00:52:15.690
other things happen at night. You know, we want

00:52:15.690 --> 00:52:18.309
to be able to see it, understand it, and then

00:52:18.309 --> 00:52:21.409
boom, share it with them out. I know I've been

00:52:21.409 --> 00:52:22.750
wondering about that. I'm sure people in the

00:52:22.750 --> 00:52:24.610
community have been wondering about that. So

00:52:24.610 --> 00:52:27.809
I want to move into the regulatory environment

00:52:27.809 --> 00:52:31.050
because for the first time ever, really for crypto,

00:52:31.110 --> 00:52:34.349
especially in the US, it seems that we have a

00:52:34.349 --> 00:52:37.909
clear path. for innovation and crypto in the

00:52:37.909 --> 00:52:41.590
us and i'll add i've i've read and i'll let you

00:52:41.590 --> 00:52:44.269
uh state whether it's true or not the new cryptos

00:52:44.269 --> 00:52:47.869
are if you will david sachs i was an early investor

00:52:47.869 --> 00:52:52.230
in hive mapper is that true that is true okay

00:52:52.230 --> 00:52:54.550
the thing i'm most curious about though is you

00:52:54.550 --> 00:52:57.690
know how was this uh regulatory environment looking

00:52:57.690 --> 00:53:00.880
forward going to change things potentially for

00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:03.300
hive mapper okay i want to be very careful here

00:53:03.300 --> 00:53:05.480
i'm not speaking for david sachs i have not had

00:53:05.480 --> 00:53:08.320
any conversations with david recently about this

00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:11.360
topic so what i'm sharing with you is my own

00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:14.199
perspective and obviously i agree with a lot

00:53:14.199 --> 00:53:16.119
of what david sachs is trying to do all right

00:53:16.119 --> 00:53:19.429
let's start with like super high level There's

00:53:19.429 --> 00:53:22.070
a lot of new technologies in the world, and I

00:53:22.070 --> 00:53:24.050
think it is absolutely critical for the United

00:53:24.050 --> 00:53:26.949
States to be the leader in those new technologies.

00:53:27.050 --> 00:53:29.150
The only way you become the leader in those technologies

00:53:29.150 --> 00:53:33.829
is if you allow entrepreneurs, communities, you

00:53:33.829 --> 00:53:35.750
know, like the one that we have here with HiveMapper

00:53:35.750 --> 00:53:40.150
that's so amazing, to experiment, right? Experimentation,

00:53:40.150 --> 00:53:41.769
there's going to be a lot of ideas. Some of them

00:53:41.769 --> 00:53:43.010
are going to work. Some of them aren't going

00:53:43.010 --> 00:53:46.070
to work. But fundamentally, you have to run through

00:53:46.070 --> 00:53:49.099
that experimentation process. And so the issue

00:53:49.099 --> 00:53:52.340
with the prior administration was they were not

00:53:52.340 --> 00:53:54.940
allowing that experimentation to happen. There

00:53:54.940 --> 00:53:58.059
are a lot of frauds and other crap and scams

00:53:58.059 --> 00:54:00.820
in the crypto. And I really wish that they would

00:54:00.820 --> 00:54:02.380
have spent their time going after that stuff

00:54:02.380 --> 00:54:06.860
rather than going after the real projects, the

00:54:06.860 --> 00:54:09.340
real businesses, the real interesting technologies,

00:54:09.780 --> 00:54:11.699
whether it be things like Ethereum, whether it

00:54:11.699 --> 00:54:14.960
be things like Coinbase and many others. My perspective

00:54:14.960 --> 00:54:17.320
now is under this new Trump administration is

00:54:17.320 --> 00:54:20.769
that it finally gives us the opportunity to run

00:54:20.769 --> 00:54:24.510
those experiments right and many of them like

00:54:24.510 --> 00:54:26.829
every other technology in the world many of them

00:54:26.829 --> 00:54:29.230
will not be successful but there will be some

00:54:29.230 --> 00:54:32.530
that will be incredibly successful and those

00:54:32.530 --> 00:54:34.389
will be the things that are the next googles

00:54:34.389 --> 00:54:36.530
of the world the next apples of the world etc

00:54:36.530 --> 00:54:39.969
uh even the next jp morgan's other world right

00:54:39.969 --> 00:54:42.909
and so i think that is what's finally finally

00:54:42.909 --> 00:54:46.150
happening here and so that that's part one part

00:54:46.150 --> 00:54:48.349
two is i don't think many people appreciated

00:54:48.349 --> 00:54:50.269
in the community at least in the high mapper

00:54:50.269 --> 00:54:53.670
community that projects like hive mapper others

00:54:53.670 --> 00:54:57.289
like helium maybe even render etc that they are

00:54:57.289 --> 00:54:59.789
based in the united states right like the core

00:54:59.789 --> 00:55:01.789
teams for hive mapper is based in the united

00:55:01.789 --> 00:55:04.510
states the core team for helium is based in the

00:55:04.510 --> 00:55:07.409
united states the same for render etc right and

00:55:07.409 --> 00:55:11.170
that really really limited what we could do right

00:55:11.170 --> 00:55:13.789
even just limited the words we could use etc

00:55:13.789 --> 00:55:17.880
right um and we were effectively just fighting

00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:21.179
with one hand tied behind our back and so we're

00:55:21.179 --> 00:55:24.920
finally allowing this innovation engine and as

00:55:24.920 --> 00:55:28.619
it relates to crypto finally unleashing it right

00:55:28.619 --> 00:55:32.019
and finally allowing it to go and build new products

00:55:32.019 --> 00:55:35.400
and build new services uh in the crypto world

00:55:35.400 --> 00:55:38.659
and so that that's very very exciting and i think

00:55:38.659 --> 00:55:40.199
it's great for america i think it's great for

00:55:40.199 --> 00:55:44.980
the high mapper community And this is the most

00:55:44.980 --> 00:55:47.880
important thing that's happened to HiveMapper,

00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:50.800
quite frankly, in the last 12 months. That's

00:55:50.800 --> 00:55:53.460
a big statement, man. I have to say, I agree.

00:55:54.380 --> 00:55:58.900
Look, blockchain technology is going to be a

00:55:58.900 --> 00:56:01.119
huge part of our lives moving forward. I think

00:56:01.119 --> 00:56:02.880
that there's a revolution happening right now,

00:56:02.900 --> 00:56:05.480
not just in the finance sector, but Deepin's

00:56:05.480 --> 00:56:09.409
a great example. of real productivity, right?

00:56:09.610 --> 00:56:13.389
And real use cases that leverage that blockchain

00:56:13.389 --> 00:56:16.250
technology. So having a clear path, being able

00:56:16.250 --> 00:56:18.809
to actually build, hopefully attracting more

00:56:18.809 --> 00:56:23.590
people into the US to build here is very exciting.

00:56:23.710 --> 00:56:26.449
And overall, I mean, look, everything you're

00:56:26.449 --> 00:56:27.889
doing with HighMapper, very exciting. I know

00:56:27.889 --> 00:56:30.829
we're coming up on time here, but the revenue

00:56:30.829 --> 00:56:34.880
trends, the B, as stated earlier. February is

00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:36.219
what we're targeting for full -on production,

00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:38.619
but obviously the shipments are about to start

00:56:38.619 --> 00:56:41.800
going out here, so very exciting. And I think

00:56:41.800 --> 00:56:44.320
that the future is very bright, man. And the

00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:46.119
other thing I'll say is you and your team, I

00:56:46.119 --> 00:56:48.780
mean, obviously you've been mapping for a long

00:56:48.780 --> 00:56:50.800
time, but you guys are working around the clock.

00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:53.300
You're very, very committed. The same can't be

00:56:53.300 --> 00:56:55.940
said of all projects out there, but you all do

00:56:55.940 --> 00:56:59.539
a really good job of constantly grinding. uh

00:56:59.539 --> 00:57:01.340
getting these tools built where we're at now

00:57:01.340 --> 00:57:03.119
compared to two years ago i mean night and day

00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:05.539
um it's been a really cool journey to be a part

00:57:05.539 --> 00:57:07.760
of and i think i told you this you know i got

00:57:07.760 --> 00:57:09.280
the inspiration for my youtube channel when i

00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:11.320
was in san francisco we were sitting in in the

00:57:11.320 --> 00:57:13.559
office and you're asking me like you know early

00:57:13.559 --> 00:57:16.019
days of hi mapper you're like hey so how are

00:57:16.019 --> 00:57:17.719
you building your fleet and i gave you my whole

00:57:17.719 --> 00:57:19.400
you know pitch i was using with uber and lyft

00:57:19.400 --> 00:57:22.019
drivers and um you know i was out there for a

00:57:22.019 --> 00:57:24.340
wedding and i remember being at the wedding that

00:57:24.340 --> 00:57:26.559
night thinking to myself like man that i need

00:57:26.559 --> 00:57:29.219
to create a youtube channel and try to get the

00:57:29.219 --> 00:57:31.039
word out there and help other people get in this

00:57:31.039 --> 00:57:34.059
space. So I remember that moment very clearly.

00:57:34.139 --> 00:57:36.400
Hard to believe it was a couple of years ago

00:57:36.400 --> 00:57:40.619
now. But yeah, man, as always, I really appreciate

00:57:40.619 --> 00:57:42.599
having you on. Curious if there's anything else

00:57:42.599 --> 00:57:44.880
you want to add before we cut off here. No, I

00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:46.639
think this has been an amazing conversation.

00:57:46.920 --> 00:57:48.400
I want to thank you, Brad, for everything you've

00:57:48.400 --> 00:57:51.840
done for the HiveMapper community. I always appreciate

00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:55.099
you as a voice of thoughtfulness and reason.

00:57:55.980 --> 00:57:58.059
you know communities especially like one like

00:57:58.059 --> 00:58:00.360
ours you know you got a lot of you know high

00:58:00.360 --> 00:58:02.840
passion high emotion one way or another and i

00:58:02.840 --> 00:58:04.179
think like you've always kind of brought this

00:58:04.179 --> 00:58:08.239
even keeled approach to it which uh is much appreciated

00:58:08.239 --> 00:58:10.179
so appreciate everything you've done for the

00:58:10.179 --> 00:58:13.500
community um and you know love to see that your

00:58:13.500 --> 00:58:15.519
channel here is gaining traction which is fun

00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:18.119
to see it is it is you're one of my first subscribers

00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:20.659
so uh but it's yeah it's cool to see it's growing

00:58:20.659 --> 00:58:23.840
hopefully continues on that path uh but man as

00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:26.719
always ariel i appreciate the time thank you