WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.759 Welcome everybody to episode six of the Blockchain 00:00:02.759 --> 00:00:06.120 Made podcast. Today I am with Sean from XNet 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:09.099 as well as Russ and Joe. And today we're going 00:00:09.099 --> 00:00:11.359 to be talking about the first blockchain powered 00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:14.560 mobile carrier. How are you today, Sean? What's 00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:16.399 up, Chris? Glad to be here. Thanks for having 00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:19.379 me. I want to get into talking about XNet, but 00:00:19.379 --> 00:00:21.039 first I want to know a little bit more about 00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:25.179 you and what your... introduction to crypto was 00:00:25.179 --> 00:00:27.019 like i always think it's interesting to hear 00:00:27.019 --> 00:00:29.399 from everybody how they found it and what led 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:32.700 them to become part of a crypto project so yeah 00:00:32.700 --> 00:00:35.759 no for sure um so yeah i'll definitely have to 00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:41.259 say my like deep introduction to crypto was probably 00:00:41.259 --> 00:00:46.399 like 2019 late 2019 2020 and it actually ironically 00:00:46.399 --> 00:00:51.299 started with What was then known as decentralized 00:00:51.299 --> 00:00:54.640 wireless, but now broadly known as D -PIN, which 00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:56.340 stands for decentralized physical infrastructure 00:00:56.340 --> 00:00:59.219 networks. But it was basically my senior year 00:00:59.219 --> 00:01:04.799 in college, 2020 bull run. Some buddies of mine 00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:09.579 had discovered Helium, which was an IoT network 00:01:09.579 --> 00:01:13.640 then through an Instagram ad, actually. So my 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:17.640 junior and senior year of college was just entirely 00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:21.400 spent. diving deep into these networks, mining, 00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:25.219 setting them up, learning more about it, connecting 00:01:25.219 --> 00:01:28.579 with people in the space. And that was honestly 00:01:28.579 --> 00:01:31.140 my hard intro to crypto. And it's interesting 00:01:31.140 --> 00:01:33.299 because I think most people get introduced obviously 00:01:33.299 --> 00:01:38.019 through Bitcoin and Ethereum. But I guess I kind 00:01:38.019 --> 00:01:42.219 of had this niche entry through this new kind 00:01:42.219 --> 00:01:45.340 of vertical emerging in crypto. So that's kind 00:01:45.340 --> 00:01:49.579 of how I got involved. Since then, I went from 00:01:49.579 --> 00:01:53.239 more of a passive participant, just mining, to 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:57.359 doing more active stuff. From there, I also part 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:00.319 -time helped out with the Helium Foundation on 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:04.379 the grant side. I worked at a startup accelerator. 00:02:06.299 --> 00:02:08.539 And there it was quite interesting because I 00:02:08.539 --> 00:02:10.659 got to see a lot of other types of blockchain 00:02:10.659 --> 00:02:14.219 projects and try to help them launch, do a lot 00:02:14.219 --> 00:02:16.280 of get -to -market stuff with them, help with 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:20.050 tokenomics. And then through there, I guess, 00:02:20.129 --> 00:02:24.030 my focus has mainly been on the mobile side. 00:02:24.229 --> 00:02:26.789 So this thing we call decentralized wireless 00:02:26.789 --> 00:02:30.969 now. And my focus has been on mobile always. 00:02:31.050 --> 00:02:34.550 And somehow through the great web of just connectivity 00:02:34.550 --> 00:02:38.710 and knowing people, I'm good friends with the 00:02:38.710 --> 00:02:42.050 guys at Escape Velocity. They're a venture firm. 00:02:42.530 --> 00:02:46.389 Their main thesis is decentralized wireless. 00:02:47.570 --> 00:02:50.210 And they kind of led me on to XNet. They're like, 00:02:50.389 --> 00:02:53.530 hey, there's this new exciting project coming 00:02:53.530 --> 00:02:56.889 in the CBRS mobile space, leveraging blockchain. 00:02:57.090 --> 00:03:00.210 And they gave me an introduction there and just 00:03:00.210 --> 00:03:03.870 really passionate about materializing the space 00:03:03.870 --> 00:03:07.030 finally and just disrupting the entire kind of 00:03:07.030 --> 00:03:10.509 incumbent that we know as telecom, the oligopolies 00:03:10.509 --> 00:03:13.830 as we know them. So, yeah, it's my passion. I 00:03:13.830 --> 00:03:16.590 just want to make a bigger impact. When I think 00:03:16.590 --> 00:03:19.669 about decentralization, it's kind of, it's not 00:03:19.669 --> 00:03:24.330 this completely permissionless, trustless, cult 00:03:24.330 --> 00:03:27.870 -like society. But if we can abstract away some 00:03:27.870 --> 00:03:30.669 power from where it's held today and distribute 00:03:30.669 --> 00:03:34.430 it amongst communities, I think we can make a 00:03:34.430 --> 00:03:38.370 long lasting impact and do something useful for 00:03:38.370 --> 00:03:40.729 the community. So, yeah, that's kind of my background. 00:03:41.030 --> 00:03:43.229 I thought it was interesting. You said you pretty 00:03:43.229 --> 00:03:45.689 much found your way in with Helium because that 00:03:45.689 --> 00:03:48.050 definitely brought a bunch of people into the 00:03:48.050 --> 00:03:51.169 space. I think specifically into the deep end 00:03:51.169 --> 00:03:53.830 space because it's kind of its own niche product, 00:03:54.050 --> 00:03:57.469 different than traditional crypto. And it brought 00:03:57.469 --> 00:04:01.509 a different crowd into it. So did you have a 00:04:01.509 --> 00:04:04.990 bunch of hotspots hosted or what were you doing 00:04:04.990 --> 00:04:08.819 with that? Yeah, so it was basically hosting 00:04:08.819 --> 00:04:11.979 hotspots, finding locations in our college town. 00:04:12.219 --> 00:04:15.280 It was actually pretty cool. I think it works 00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:17.920 differently in a college town. Some interesting 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:21.060 dynamics there because being a student, I don't 00:04:21.060 --> 00:04:23.339 know, you have like people just hustling, you 00:04:23.339 --> 00:04:25.100 know, they'd be happy to get 100 more bucks. 00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:27.759 But in the real world, it's like, oh, you're 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:30.100 only paying me $100 a month and you have to come 00:04:30.100 --> 00:04:33.220 in my house and install this thing. So it was 00:04:33.220 --> 00:04:35.139 interesting. It's like. The college grounds are 00:04:35.139 --> 00:04:38.899 kind of a nice ecosystem testbed for these things 00:04:38.899 --> 00:04:42.060 because it's easy to find hosts. It's easy for, 00:04:42.139 --> 00:04:44.240 there's like no barrier, you know, people are, 00:04:44.339 --> 00:04:47.339 students are more prone to accept these things. 00:04:47.459 --> 00:04:50.819 So yeah, it was mostly hosting things and meeting 00:04:50.819 --> 00:04:53.319 people. That was like kind of the biggest thing 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:55.519 out of this. Like you go to host, you meet someone 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:59.139 new, you have a new friendship. Some of my best 00:04:59.139 --> 00:05:02.110 friends actually made through. just like these 00:05:02.110 --> 00:05:04.649 mining dy network so it's been pretty awesome 00:05:04.649 --> 00:05:09.129 yeah i wish i did that when i uh when i was at 00:05:09.129 --> 00:05:10.910 my previous school i probably could have placed 00:05:10.910 --> 00:05:13.610 some hotspots some places but i ended up doing 00:05:13.610 --> 00:05:16.910 like i think i had two in my house and it wasn't 00:05:16.910 --> 00:05:19.589 the best setup uh let's talk about some x net 00:05:19.589 --> 00:05:22.670 some more so what is your role so at x net um 00:05:22.670 --> 00:05:26.310 i guess my role on paper i like to say i lead 00:05:26.310 --> 00:05:29.470 business development and kind of partnerships 00:05:29.470 --> 00:05:32.879 within the crypto sphere and the deepened sphere 00:05:32.879 --> 00:05:37.439 currently, but man, it's a startup. So, I mean, 00:05:37.459 --> 00:05:39.899 you guys know how it is just running around everywhere, 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:43.160 doing what I can, you know, each day, basically 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:46.319 my goal is each day that someone, I can get someone 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:49.220 excited about Xnet. I've done my job. And if 00:05:49.220 --> 00:05:51.040 I, if I haven't done that, then I haven't, I 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:53.360 failed at my job for that day. So that's what 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:56.040 I like to tell people. Awesome. So I did make 00:05:56.040 --> 00:05:58.790 a video. talking about x net i believe joe did 00:05:58.790 --> 00:06:01.670 as well but for those watching or listening how 00:06:01.670 --> 00:06:03.730 would you explain x net so that anybody could 00:06:03.730 --> 00:06:06.050 understand for sure no and really appreciate 00:06:06.050 --> 00:06:08.870 you doing that video chris and joe um i think 00:06:08.870 --> 00:06:11.730 it was well received um a lot of a lot of my 00:06:11.730 --> 00:06:14.829 team members saw it and they loved it so very 00:06:14.829 --> 00:06:16.790 glad you did did those videos i think it was 00:06:16.790 --> 00:06:20.750 helpful um for a lot of people but yeah access 00:06:20.750 --> 00:06:26.939 general mission is basically I guess the first 00:06:26.939 --> 00:06:30.100 principle is sharing things makes things more 00:06:30.100 --> 00:06:33.720 efficient and makes things more accessible and 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:37.779 equitable for the world, right? So the current 00:06:37.779 --> 00:06:43.259 state of mobile connectivity has been pretty 00:06:43.259 --> 00:06:49.139 drowned in stuff like regulatory capture, just 00:06:49.139 --> 00:06:52.660 the oligopoly structure that the US has. when 00:06:52.660 --> 00:06:54.779 it comes to mobile connectivity right there's 00:06:54.779 --> 00:06:57.879 there's three or four main participants um how 00:06:57.879 --> 00:07:00.800 it works is each of those participants participate 00:07:00.800 --> 00:07:06.779 in a top -down structured spectrum auction every 00:07:06.779 --> 00:07:09.800 few years and this is like trillions of dollars 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:11.819 they're spending billions of dollars actually 00:07:11.819 --> 00:07:16.300 the us government's um net revenue like two to 00:07:16.300 --> 00:07:20.180 three percent comes from these big oligopolies 00:07:21.039 --> 00:07:24.819 AT &T, Verizon, T -Mobile. But yeah, and due 00:07:24.819 --> 00:07:27.620 to this regulatory capture, there are only being 00:07:27.620 --> 00:07:30.000 three or four companies that kind of dictate 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:32.300 what happens in the industry of mobile in the 00:07:32.300 --> 00:07:35.600 United States. It leads to a lot of inefficiencies 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:40.040 and a lot of things that could be better, such 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:42.540 as pockets of connectivity that aren't there. 00:07:42.740 --> 00:07:45.439 Like a lot of rural places don't have connectivity 00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:48.290 because... These companies aren't incentivized 00:07:48.290 --> 00:07:49.930 to do it because they're not going to make a 00:07:49.930 --> 00:07:55.029 good buck there. Or say expanding networks, a 00:07:55.029 --> 00:07:58.610 dense place like New York, obviously just with 00:07:58.610 --> 00:08:02.269 compute going up, the need and demand for data 00:08:02.269 --> 00:08:04.209 is kind of just like a left curve going up at 00:08:04.209 --> 00:08:07.449 this point. People have predicted that by 2028, 00:08:07.730 --> 00:08:10.629 the use of just the amount of gigabytes that 00:08:10.629 --> 00:08:12.970 flow through the mobile ecosystem in America 00:08:12.970 --> 00:08:17.250 will maybe three to five X. The current structures 00:08:17.250 --> 00:08:20.089 aren't well equipped to keep up with what's going 00:08:20.089 --> 00:08:23.750 on in the mobile sphere. And XNet is kind of 00:08:23.750 --> 00:08:27.209 a testament to that. We want to fix the inefficiencies 00:08:27.209 --> 00:08:30.750 of the Verizons, the T -Mobiles, the AT &Ts, 00:08:30.790 --> 00:08:34.629 and basically create a shared economy of the 00:08:34.629 --> 00:08:39.110 cellular networks. So XNet, we're basically using 00:08:39.110 --> 00:08:42.169 blockchain and crypto incentives to bootstraps. 00:08:42.620 --> 00:08:44.940 cellular networks in places where they're most 00:08:44.940 --> 00:08:47.440 needed where the demand is the most so areas 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:50.679 that have poor connectivity right now or they 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:53.980 have capacity issues and we basically incentivize 00:08:53.980 --> 00:08:57.120 and decentralize our radios through our community 00:08:57.120 --> 00:09:02.100 in a token into these areas and the plan is to 00:09:02.100 --> 00:09:05.779 basically resell our network back to the big 00:09:05.779 --> 00:09:08.299 guys back to the oligopoly at a fraction of the 00:09:08.299 --> 00:09:11.519 cost and share that revenue with the people that 00:09:11.929 --> 00:09:14.490 help us along the way set it up and that are 00:09:14.490 --> 00:09:16.549 just part of our community because that's how 00:09:16.549 --> 00:09:20.250 we believe it should work and another big thing 00:09:20.250 --> 00:09:24.549 with 5g coming our current the current industry 00:09:24.549 --> 00:09:28.370 is just not equipped to be able to handle the 00:09:28.370 --> 00:09:32.570 hardware demand and the intensive intensifying 00:09:32.570 --> 00:09:35.769 of locations throughout the us so right now i 00:09:35.769 --> 00:09:39.860 think 4g towers are placed every couple blocks 00:09:39.860 --> 00:09:44.700 or a couple miles apart due to frequency measurements 00:09:44.700 --> 00:09:47.779 and such. And with 5G, we're going to need basically 00:09:47.779 --> 00:09:50.779 radios on every block, radios on every telephone 00:09:50.779 --> 00:09:53.019 pole. And the industry is just not well equipped 00:09:53.019 --> 00:09:56.960 to do that. And I think this is obviously a better 00:09:56.960 --> 00:09:59.279 method, right? Just decentralizing the hardware, 00:09:59.500 --> 00:10:03.179 the radios that you need to do it. And yeah, 00:10:03.259 --> 00:10:05.779 go from there. So pretty excited. I know that 00:10:05.779 --> 00:10:09.730 was a lot. No, I appreciate that. Oh, that's 00:10:09.730 --> 00:10:12.750 great. I thought it was interesting that you're 00:10:12.750 --> 00:10:15.049 talking about how these big telecom companies 00:10:15.049 --> 00:10:17.250 and how they're not well equipped. And I remember 00:10:17.250 --> 00:10:19.789 since I was a kid, pretty much for the past 10, 00:10:19.929 --> 00:10:22.090 maybe 15 years, when you walk into one of the 00:10:22.090 --> 00:10:24.389 stores like AT &T, Verizon, they usually have 00:10:24.389 --> 00:10:26.549 a map of the United States and it shows their 00:10:26.549 --> 00:10:28.450 coverage. And that map really hasn't changed 00:10:28.450 --> 00:10:30.309 over the years. And there's a lot of dead spots 00:10:30.309 --> 00:10:32.870 across the United States that people live in 00:10:32.870 --> 00:10:36.049 and they are going to be occupied as the population 00:10:36.049 --> 00:10:39.190 grows. They just don't seem like they are really 00:10:39.190 --> 00:10:41.590 putting a lot of money into upgrading. It seems 00:10:41.590 --> 00:10:43.590 more like they're putting their money into just 00:10:43.590 --> 00:10:45.690 kind of maintaining the network. Yeah, yeah. 00:10:45.970 --> 00:10:48.730 Right now where I live, the service is awful. 00:10:48.950 --> 00:10:50.769 I have one bar on my phone, but it really isn't 00:10:50.769 --> 00:10:52.509 one bar. And I think it's because of the amount 00:10:52.509 --> 00:10:54.769 of devices that are connected to the one tower 00:10:54.769 --> 00:10:56.789 in the area because I'm on a college campus right 00:10:56.789 --> 00:10:58.789 now. So the need for a network that can handle 00:10:58.789 --> 00:11:00.830 all of this bandwidth is necessary. And it really 00:11:00.830 --> 00:11:03.370 doesn't seem like any of them are prepared. I 00:11:03.370 --> 00:11:04.950 want to pivot here and talk about your potential 00:11:04.950 --> 00:11:07.769 competitors like Helium and Pollen. Can you talk 00:11:07.769 --> 00:11:09.509 about your ability to be a full mobile network 00:11:09.509 --> 00:11:11.909 service and what that means? Yeah, for sure, 00:11:11.970 --> 00:11:15.230 Chris. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of kind of 00:11:15.230 --> 00:11:18.309 competitive advantages and maybe even disadvantages 00:11:18.309 --> 00:11:22.889 of kind of launching when XNet did into this 00:11:22.889 --> 00:11:26.710 environment. But yeah, XNet, we're basically 00:11:26.710 --> 00:11:30.269 in mobile terms and technical terms, we're building 00:11:30.269 --> 00:11:35.830 a true 3GPP, GSMA compliant, neutral host network. 00:11:36.129 --> 00:11:38.669 And this idea that I brought up earlier that 00:11:38.669 --> 00:11:41.809 sharing things no matter what makes it more efficient, 00:11:41.929 --> 00:11:45.289 right? Sharing resources, sharing capital makes 00:11:45.289 --> 00:11:47.429 things more efficient. And that's what basically 00:11:47.429 --> 00:11:51.149 the neutral host enables. So basically what this 00:11:51.149 --> 00:11:54.269 neutral host is, the XNet network is able to, 00:11:55.309 --> 00:11:59.570 because it's GSMA and 3GPP compliant, I think 00:11:59.570 --> 00:12:02.169 that might be the main competitive advantage 00:12:02.169 --> 00:12:05.429 between networks such as Helium and Pollen. We're 00:12:05.429 --> 00:12:08.509 able to interconnect with any telco. So it could 00:12:08.509 --> 00:12:13.870 be Verizon, AT &T, T -Mobile, DISH. Any telco's 00:12:13.870 --> 00:12:16.990 backend, which is their mobile core, and they'll 00:12:16.990 --> 00:12:19.850 be able to roam onto our network. So Chris, like 00:12:19.850 --> 00:12:21.889 you said, that example in your college campus 00:12:21.889 --> 00:12:25.250 where you have a bar. Say we incentivize maybe 00:12:25.250 --> 00:12:27.870 a group of your friends to go deploy XNet gear. 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:32.940 And we have a deal with T -Mobile or say Verizon. 00:12:33.980 --> 00:12:36.460 And if you have one of those carriers, the beauty 00:12:36.460 --> 00:12:39.620 of this, the neutral host model is that T -Mobile 00:12:39.620 --> 00:12:42.360 or Verizon will roam on to the Xnet network and 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:45.379 you won't even know that you're technically using 00:12:45.379 --> 00:12:47.399 the Xnet network. Well, you might because you 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:50.279 set it up, but basically that one bar you had 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:53.860 in that spot near your campus, you'll be fully 00:12:53.860 --> 00:12:56.679 connected. You'll have four bars, full connectivity. 00:12:57.470 --> 00:12:59.509 That's kind of the beauty of the Xnet model. 00:13:00.049 --> 00:13:02.990 No other company has done it so far. And I think 00:13:02.990 --> 00:13:06.950 this is due to a lack of expertise and telecom 00:13:06.950 --> 00:13:09.850 and just knowing how this industry works. Obviously, 00:13:09.929 --> 00:13:12.629 I kind of mentioned it was an oligopoly structure. 00:13:13.110 --> 00:13:15.090 And I think that has a lot to do with it. Like 00:13:15.090 --> 00:13:18.090 there's a lot of back roads. You have to know 00:13:18.090 --> 00:13:20.309 certain people within the space. You have to 00:13:20.309 --> 00:13:23.429 have these standards that are just been there 00:13:23.429 --> 00:13:26.129 since the 80s. And companies like Helium and 00:13:26.129 --> 00:13:28.850 Pollen are great. I really obviously I kind of 00:13:28.850 --> 00:13:30.830 got the introduction to the space and they kind 00:13:30.830 --> 00:13:33.330 of laid out the ground set and the vision that 00:13:33.330 --> 00:13:35.289 the space could be in terms of how we could scale 00:13:35.289 --> 00:13:38.490 it. But I think that was an area where they lacked 00:13:38.490 --> 00:13:40.649 where XNet picked up the slack. They're like, 00:13:40.750 --> 00:13:43.950 all right, we need to make this not a joke really 00:13:43.950 --> 00:13:46.610 anymore, because these operators, they're like, 00:13:46.669 --> 00:13:49.490 oh, yeah, there's some cool crypto telecom company, 00:13:49.610 --> 00:13:51.309 but they don't really know what they're doing. 00:13:51.649 --> 00:13:54.269 But now I think XNet changes that narrative. 00:13:54.309 --> 00:13:58.240 We walk into rooms and. We're a GSMA, 3GPP compliant 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:01.259 network. We're building our network in clustered 00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:04.080 footprint and actually building a real product 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.960 when it comes to the network. So I think that's 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:09.500 our main competitive advantage. And people get 00:14:09.500 --> 00:14:13.139 that, you know, there's a lot of pull from customers 00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:15.960 in the market, such as MNOs, and they get what 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:18.679 we're doing and excited to participate. So I 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:20.980 think that's the real advantage. And that's kind 00:14:20.980 --> 00:14:23.220 of how we set ourselves apart. How would someone 00:14:23.220 --> 00:14:26.159 be able to participate in XNet today? Yeah, Russ, 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:28.659 would you like to jump in on that? Yeah, absolutely. 00:14:28.940 --> 00:14:31.139 I'm happy to jump in here and talk about how 00:14:31.139 --> 00:14:33.799 dreamers like me got involved in this space. 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:38.279 So I can jump into a little background first 00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:41.679 for some context. So I worked in the traditional 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:45.019 telecom industry at Verizon Wireless. I was a 00:14:45.019 --> 00:14:48.340 principal engineer and built out thousands of 00:14:48.340 --> 00:14:51.460 cell sites, mostly in the Midwest. But later 00:14:51.460 --> 00:14:55.679 on, I was deploying equipment worldwide. and 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:58.279 had a bunch of junior engineers on the team that 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:00.220 I worked with to make sure we could get equipment 00:15:00.220 --> 00:15:02.059 up and running, people's cell phones would turn 00:15:02.059 --> 00:15:05.139 on, and they'd get as many bars as possible. 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:08.139 And then later on, I worked at U .S. Cellular, 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:11.000 focused on securing the wireless network from 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:16.100 attacks. So I left the industry twice, this traditional 00:15:16.100 --> 00:15:20.299 telecom industry, mostly because I was just kind 00:15:20.299 --> 00:15:23.279 of frustrated with where the industry was going. 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:25.639 So, you know, mentioned earlier the big carrier. 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:28.279 So, you know, I'm lucky enough to have been, 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:31.320 you know, in meetings with some, you know, pretty 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:34.700 big executives at Verizon talking about what 00:15:34.700 --> 00:15:36.700 they really think, how they really view the market, 00:15:36.820 --> 00:15:39.059 what we were spending, what our priorities were, 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:41.700 where we were building our capacity. And, you 00:15:41.700 --> 00:15:43.700 know, it was, you know, very tightly controlled. 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:47.460 And over time, the focus changed quite a bit 00:15:47.460 --> 00:15:50.539 from making sure we always had the best quality, 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:53.620 the fewest drop calls. Calls were always, you 00:15:53.620 --> 00:15:56.639 know, if you got your phone, it was reliable. 00:15:56.860 --> 00:16:00.480 It worked. And, you know, later on it came more 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:03.820 of, well, data and data speeds and, you know, 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:06.080 what is good enough. And I felt like we were 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:09.879 kind of dropping our focus a little bit. And 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:11.659 it was tightly controlled here. Like if somebody 00:16:11.659 --> 00:16:14.240 complains, it goes into, and it's like this with 00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:17.200 all the carriers, it goes in and that complaint 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:20.210 goes through, you know, systems of. of prioritization 00:16:20.210 --> 00:16:22.490 and what can come out the other end you know 00:16:22.490 --> 00:16:25.470 typically is only is you know typically not going 00:16:25.470 --> 00:16:26.870 to help somebody who's saying you know i've got 00:16:26.870 --> 00:16:29.389 poor coverage in this area they usually you know 00:16:29.389 --> 00:16:32.850 have some sense of it but prioritize areas for 00:16:32.850 --> 00:16:35.830 lots of internal reasons and if you just say 00:16:35.830 --> 00:16:38.129 hey you know it's okay i just want to put one 00:16:38.129 --> 00:16:41.720 up maybe in my house or my campus or my building. 00:16:41.940 --> 00:16:44.700 It's a very long, slow and expensive process 00:16:44.700 --> 00:16:47.279 to do that. And you got to deal with each carrier, 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:49.000 you know, independently, unless you're doing 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:51.799 what they call neutral hosting, like maybe for 00:16:51.799 --> 00:16:55.940 a stadium. But typically a very long, very slow, 00:16:56.019 --> 00:17:00.519 very complicated process. And so, you know, I 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:02.620 was very excited, you know, so, you know, similar. 00:17:03.419 --> 00:17:05.339 um sean here when i first heard about helium 00:17:05.339 --> 00:17:06.779 i didn't believe it i thought it was kind of 00:17:06.779 --> 00:17:10.119 ridiculous and then as i saw it grow more seriously 00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:14.619 built my own fleet signed up hosts uh etc you 00:17:14.619 --> 00:17:17.200 know and i still have that that fleet today uh 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:19.819 and and really got involved and started doing 00:17:19.819 --> 00:17:21.819 interviews with the community start talking to 00:17:21.819 --> 00:17:24.279 people being one of the few people the background 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:26.559 and you know the traditional industry and hoping 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:29.019 that it would get better and be more open to 00:17:29.019 --> 00:17:31.000 where as long as you follow the set of rules 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:34.839 that are out there FCC rules and, you know, some 00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:37.920 fair rules from the carriers, you can fix the 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:41.579 problem of having bad service and also get paid 00:17:41.579 --> 00:17:43.259 for it. I think it was really revolutionary. 00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:46.319 A lot of other networks that are in the space 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:48.180 have shied away from this and are kind of scared 00:17:48.180 --> 00:17:51.059 of this. XNet, I think, is the clear leader in 00:17:51.059 --> 00:17:52.960 the United States of this concept and pushing 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:54.880 us forward. It's probably one of the toughest 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:59.960 things to do. This is a huge wall to climb. Other 00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:02.630 networks have given up. have stopped saying they're 00:18:02.630 --> 00:18:04.349 trying to do this or they put it on the back 00:18:04.349 --> 00:18:08.430 burner um so uh you know it's really brave of 00:18:08.430 --> 00:18:10.450 them i think to stick up and also the technical 00:18:10.450 --> 00:18:12.730 quality of people on the team that trying to 00:18:12.730 --> 00:18:15.230 get into people like tom who have an incredible 00:18:15.230 --> 00:18:18.369 wealth of experience um incredibly you know smart 00:18:18.369 --> 00:18:20.630 poignant and incredibly connected in the traditional 00:18:20.630 --> 00:18:23.390 industry know all the big players know what they're 00:18:23.390 --> 00:18:25.170 looking for know how to do technical integrations 00:18:25.170 --> 00:18:28.289 uh you know uh you know have worked on mobile 00:18:28.289 --> 00:18:31.630 cores before have actually production ready commercial 00:18:31.630 --> 00:18:34.069 cores that are ready to go ready to integrate 00:18:34.069 --> 00:18:37.930 can pass and easily pass an audit and make roaming 00:18:37.930 --> 00:18:40.930 so much better and so much easier so so customers 00:18:40.930 --> 00:18:43.230 have a seamless experience i think is a true 00:18:43.230 --> 00:18:47.690 strength of it so what i do now is i you know 00:18:47.690 --> 00:18:50.569 really work to help expand xnet right now i'm 00:18:50.569 --> 00:18:54.089 really focused on chicago and building out that 00:18:54.089 --> 00:18:58.430 area with isps so i really try to help explain 00:18:58.430 --> 00:19:02.309 to normal people, normal businesses, what's in 00:19:02.309 --> 00:19:05.130 it for them, why this makes sense, give them 00:19:05.130 --> 00:19:08.049 commitments, and then help them. Basically, I 00:19:08.049 --> 00:19:11.269 unlock this new opportunity for them and supply 00:19:11.269 --> 00:19:14.730 the equipment for it, partner with them to put 00:19:14.730 --> 00:19:17.470 these up, which is a difficult thing. Getting 00:19:17.470 --> 00:19:19.930 good locations, having solid business relationships, 00:19:20.250 --> 00:19:22.150 making promises and commitments and delivering 00:19:22.150 --> 00:19:24.529 on them can be very tough in this space because 00:19:24.529 --> 00:19:27.990 timelines change, networks change. Incentives 00:19:27.990 --> 00:19:30.430 change very frequently. Another network here 00:19:30.430 --> 00:19:32.650 is constantly changing. It's very hard to forecast 00:19:32.650 --> 00:19:36.910 what you're going to make even next month. Stability 00:19:36.910 --> 00:19:41.569 is key. Trust is key. That's why I enjoy working 00:19:41.569 --> 00:19:44.109 with the XNet team. They're a team that's easy 00:19:44.109 --> 00:19:46.930 to talk to. They're very knowledgeable, very 00:19:46.930 --> 00:19:48.829 smart, but they're also good people to work with. 00:19:49.329 --> 00:19:51.130 There's definitely some bad people in the space 00:19:51.130 --> 00:19:54.190 who are very difficult to work with and think 00:19:54.190 --> 00:19:56.049 they own the space. I don't think that's true 00:19:56.049 --> 00:19:58.309 at all. We don't know. you know, exactly how 00:19:58.309 --> 00:20:00.869 this is going to turn out. But I think it's going 00:20:00.869 --> 00:20:03.150 to change very quickly. Eventually, the wall 00:20:03.150 --> 00:20:05.529 will fall. And I think XNet is going to be one 00:20:05.529 --> 00:20:07.490 of the first to say, look, we did it. Maybe it 00:20:07.490 --> 00:20:10.250 took a little bit longer than expected, but we 00:20:10.250 --> 00:20:13.029 were able to work with them and unlock this tremendous 00:20:13.029 --> 00:20:15.569 opportunity. And, you know, the big opportunity 00:20:15.569 --> 00:20:18.150 that we see, I think, in the near term future 00:20:18.150 --> 00:20:20.890 is really working with wireless, working with 00:20:20.890 --> 00:20:23.750 Wi -Fi and saying, you know, you can get paid 00:20:23.750 --> 00:20:26.009 for Wi -Fi roaming is very exciting. And that's 00:20:26.009 --> 00:20:29.849 very easy to do. There's several companies that 00:20:29.849 --> 00:20:34.250 do this today. So that's a bit of my background, 00:20:34.410 --> 00:20:38.589 a bit of what I do. I'm fairly open here. I don't 00:20:38.589 --> 00:20:40.769 post on Twitter that much. I'm not as much of 00:20:40.769 --> 00:20:42.410 a YouTuber, I think, as probably everybody else 00:20:42.410 --> 00:20:46.549 here. But I'm very active and try to meet with 00:20:46.549 --> 00:20:48.549 people in person. So I was at Mobile World Congress 00:20:48.549 --> 00:20:50.970 earlier this year talking with many of the manufacturers 00:20:50.970 --> 00:20:54.880 and projects in the space. which was very exciting, 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:56.640 very enlightening and really gave me a lot of 00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:58.440 hope for the future, especially on a day like 00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:00.619 today where, you know, the market's pretty far 00:21:00.619 --> 00:21:02.900 down and you're seeing a lot of people capitulate. 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:05.720 I'm seeing more pictures of helium miners in 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:08.599 garbage cans I've ever seen before. So it's it's 00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:11.400 definitely changing. Russ, can you elaborate 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:16.220 a little bit on your. Like the crowd share hosting 00:21:16.220 --> 00:21:19.119 model, if people want to be involved, how they 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:22.220 could approach you if they have a great location. 00:21:22.890 --> 00:21:25.750 Or they have hardware that they need to get out 00:21:25.750 --> 00:21:28.410 to a location. Yeah. Yeah. So that's something. 00:21:28.769 --> 00:21:31.450 Thanks for bringing that up, Joe. So a couple 00:21:31.450 --> 00:21:34.789 of things. So I work with mostly by cells radios. 00:21:34.809 --> 00:21:38.170 That's what I focus on. And if somebody has extra 00:21:38.170 --> 00:21:41.490 radios, I can take those radios and basically 00:21:41.490 --> 00:21:43.730 unlock them to work on any network that's out 00:21:43.730 --> 00:21:47.930 there. So, you know. xnet makes a lot of sense 00:21:47.930 --> 00:21:51.089 in xnet areas especially you know special areas 00:21:51.089 --> 00:21:53.990 where they have incentives with taxes uh and 00:21:53.990 --> 00:21:56.849 that's you know where i help so there are multiple 00:21:56.849 --> 00:21:59.750 opportunities across the country you know evolving 00:21:59.750 --> 00:22:03.210 every day every week of where to deploy chicago 00:22:03.210 --> 00:22:05.470 is a big one there's several places in the midwest 00:22:05.470 --> 00:22:08.630 they're looking for for radios and for partners 00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:12.200 uh so you know even within the space that's what 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:14.720 i do i'm just trying to help move the space forward 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:19.019 by making commitments uh using these radios through 00:22:19.019 --> 00:22:21.500 as much as possible and unlocking them so that 00:22:21.500 --> 00:22:24.400 we can uh get the most value out of them and 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:27.480 i think xnet's also something xnet did that other 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:29.200 projects have not done is they've made a commitment 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:31.119 to open radios so they don't try to lock them 00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:33.440 down or say nobody else can use them or force 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:36.119 their manufacturers to sign you know on us agreements 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:39.150 like you know like other projects do, where they're 00:22:39.150 --> 00:22:41.250 not supposed to let the radio be used with anybody 00:22:41.250 --> 00:22:43.670 else. They're very open and competitive, which 00:22:43.670 --> 00:22:46.430 is, I think, a sign of confidence in what they're 00:22:46.430 --> 00:22:48.470 offering. One of the things I wanted to ask you 00:22:48.470 --> 00:22:53.009 about was we're looking at carrier roaming. So 00:22:53.009 --> 00:22:57.269 carriers, customers offloading their data to 00:22:57.269 --> 00:23:01.089 these CBRS radios. Is there some sort of quality 00:23:01.089 --> 00:23:04.950 assurance model you guys follow that? would bring 00:23:04.950 --> 00:23:08.869 confidence in this type of operation yeah uh 00:23:08.869 --> 00:23:13.390 so a big part of it is don't you know uh is don't 00:23:13.390 --> 00:23:16.930 treat like cvrs um you know exactly like wi -fi 00:23:16.930 --> 00:23:18.890 it's a little different so a big part of it is 00:23:18.890 --> 00:23:22.130 doing proper um you know kind of in the wi -fi 00:23:22.130 --> 00:23:24.950 world they call it like a you know a site audit 00:23:24.950 --> 00:23:29.930 or an rf audit um so so i've got access to tools 00:23:29.930 --> 00:23:32.200 that help me simulate where you're putting this 00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:34.299 equipment, what it's going to cover, and what 00:23:34.299 --> 00:23:36.839 are going to be the quality levels, aka speeds, 00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:38.819 you're going to get. So that's something that 00:23:38.819 --> 00:23:41.279 I've done for, you know, probably last year. 00:23:42.779 --> 00:23:45.240 I did probably over 100 ,000 sites. It was a 00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:47.420 tremendous amount of sites I had to go through 00:23:47.420 --> 00:23:50.180 and rank based on quality of where they're going 00:23:50.180 --> 00:23:52.240 to be and how they're going to work. So that's 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.940 it. While I do do most of my work with Bicell's 00:23:55.940 --> 00:23:58.640 radios, I also do it with Blink radios as well. 00:23:59.259 --> 00:24:01.900 And there's unique RF models for how those radios 00:24:01.900 --> 00:24:04.660 work that is very different. You can't just do 00:24:04.660 --> 00:24:07.000 one for one and swap them out. They behave very 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:09.299 differently. So I think proper site planning 00:24:09.299 --> 00:24:13.859 is a big one. a reliable backhaul having a reliable 00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:17.380 agreement i think put in place having a written 00:24:17.380 --> 00:24:19.900 agreement i think is very important and actually 00:24:19.900 --> 00:24:21.920 having repercussions in there what happens when 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:25.700 things go wrong what if speed gets impacted what 00:24:25.700 --> 00:24:29.119 if it takes longer than expected for agreements 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:32.079 to go into place or for revenue come in things 00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:34.359 like that so the most popular model that i do 00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:37.400 is mapping it out based on mapping it out get 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:39.500 an idea of what a site will earn of course we 00:24:39.500 --> 00:24:41.299 don't know exactly what it will earn until it's 00:24:41.299 --> 00:24:44.539 up but um we try to be conservative so that's 00:24:44.539 --> 00:24:46.180 that's very reliable and that served us very 00:24:46.180 --> 00:24:48.619 well and kind of intentionally under promising 00:24:48.619 --> 00:24:50.779 and over delivering as much as we can in the 00:24:50.779 --> 00:24:53.759 space and then on top of that the most popular 00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:56.980 model is revenue share and that cuts a lot of 00:24:56.980 --> 00:25:00.440 people out who won't won't agree to that so even 00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:02.619 in a down market like this yes we're all making 00:25:02.619 --> 00:25:06.319 less but At least we're all still making something 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:09.720 and we're not wasting a lot of time needlessly 00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:11.900 moving sites around or dealing with people who 00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:14.900 don't believe in this as much. At this point, 00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:16.500 they're more in it for the money or for quick 00:25:16.500 --> 00:25:20.460 money. They aren't in it for a slow, consistent, 00:25:20.500 --> 00:25:24.920 quality, long -term site build. So that's a pretty 00:25:24.920 --> 00:25:27.279 big difference. I don't know of other, you know, 00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:30.230 I think all serious professional. deployers who 00:25:30.230 --> 00:25:32.849 do RF simulations at this point, but definitely 00:25:32.849 --> 00:25:35.069 your smaller deployers don't have access to these 00:25:35.069 --> 00:25:37.309 types of tools or equipment. I appreciate that. 00:25:37.390 --> 00:25:40.190 It's a tremendous answer, but I think I meant 00:25:40.190 --> 00:25:43.509 to aim that at Sean and accidentally said Russ. 00:25:43.750 --> 00:25:47.230 Yeah, no worries there. I can take a, obviously 00:25:47.230 --> 00:25:50.130 stab at it from my perspective, but Russ, I mean, 00:25:50.150 --> 00:25:51.650 yeah, you nailed it on the head. I mean, coming 00:25:51.650 --> 00:25:56.400 from someone that has seen this world. intensely 00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:59.099 right at verizon being an engineer at verizon 00:25:59.099 --> 00:26:01.460 i think your perspective definitely has tremendous 00:26:01.460 --> 00:26:04.660 value here but um just a little more on that 00:26:04.660 --> 00:26:07.740 um again like like kind of similar with russ 00:26:07.740 --> 00:26:10.859 i've been involved with um interfacing with some 00:26:10.859 --> 00:26:12.819 of the carriers we've been talking to some of 00:26:12.819 --> 00:26:16.380 these big mnos and have talked to some of their 00:26:16.380 --> 00:26:21.549 top level executives big big guys right and They've 00:26:21.549 --> 00:26:24.369 also talked to people that have come before in 00:26:24.369 --> 00:26:27.410 this space. No need to mention names, but the 00:26:27.410 --> 00:26:30.750 main issue there was no one actually had a network. 00:26:30.970 --> 00:26:34.250 The first pillar, right? You need a network that 00:26:34.250 --> 00:26:36.809 will function, whether that be CBRS, Wi -Fi, 00:26:36.910 --> 00:26:40.430 whatever technology it may be. You need a network 00:26:40.430 --> 00:26:43.549 that can serve people and connect to someone's 00:26:43.549 --> 00:26:48.569 phone efficiently, right? Just full stop, period. 00:26:48.849 --> 00:26:52.869 And the first problem in this space was we had 00:26:52.869 --> 00:26:55.970 radios just dispersed everywhere. Like there's 00:26:55.970 --> 00:26:58.890 no quality assurance on where these radios were 00:26:58.890 --> 00:27:02.150 deployed. Whereas XNet was like, this is wrong. 00:27:02.289 --> 00:27:04.990 We need to deploy. Like telecom networks are 00:27:04.990 --> 00:27:07.130 mostly deployed in clusters. So you can kind 00:27:07.130 --> 00:27:10.009 of concentrate bandwidth and serve a certain 00:27:10.009 --> 00:27:13.089 need. Say that area has bad connectivity to begin 00:27:13.089 --> 00:27:16.609 with. So that's the approach XNet took. We're 00:27:16.609 --> 00:27:19.900 like here. Here's radios that are close by. It's 00:27:19.900 --> 00:27:23.200 called contiguous coverage. So if you're moving 00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:25.700 through the zone across these blocks, you'll 00:27:25.700 --> 00:27:28.279 still be connected. It's not like, all right, 00:27:28.359 --> 00:27:32.160 I'm in this busy mall shopping center. I go from 00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:35.000 point A to point B. There's only one radio in 00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:38.359 that vicinity. So as soon as I walk 10 steps, 00:27:38.500 --> 00:27:40.819 I'm going to fall off this coverage or there's 00:27:40.819 --> 00:27:43.000 not going to be enough radios to fulfill how 00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:45.680 many people are in this area. So just in terms 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.259 of quality assurance, I think, The first, first 00:27:48.259 --> 00:27:51.180 step of having an actual product, in this case, 00:27:51.180 --> 00:27:53.740 a network that can serve people and serve mobile 00:27:53.740 --> 00:27:57.500 devices and provide connectivity is the most 00:27:57.500 --> 00:28:00.759 kind of quality assurance that Xsense took while 00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:03.380 taking this approach and building out our business, 00:28:03.539 --> 00:28:06.920 Joe. So Russ mentioned the other members on the 00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:09.339 team. Could you talk a little bit about them 00:28:09.339 --> 00:28:12.759 and their skill sets that they have? Oh, yeah, 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:16.460 I'd love to do that. Frankly, just just a brief 00:28:16.460 --> 00:28:20.059 refer. Like, these are some of the smartest people 00:28:20.059 --> 00:28:23.480 I've honestly met. Obviously, I'm not that old 00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:26.619 yet. A lot more experience to live. But some 00:28:26.619 --> 00:28:29.900 of the smartest people I've been had the great 00:28:29.900 --> 00:28:32.079 chance to interact with and work with and be 00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:34.500 part of a team with see how they think. But yeah, 00:28:34.579 --> 00:28:37.880 our leader, our CEO himself is Richard Duvall. 00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:41.299 And he was actually an executive at Google X. 00:28:41.420 --> 00:28:45.759 He's been a secret research team at Apple. He's 00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:49.960 led like many, many PSYOP projects and technologies 00:28:49.960 --> 00:28:53.920 in their infancies. Even like things like AI, 00:28:54.019 --> 00:28:57.759 he was working on like AI models, machine learning 00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:05.000 algorithms back in like 2010, 2009. So yeah, 00:29:05.059 --> 00:29:08.130 and most notably Rich. launched a connectivity 00:29:08.130 --> 00:29:10.650 project he was the head of it called project 00:29:10.650 --> 00:29:14.730 loon at google um you guys can i won't take a 00:29:14.730 --> 00:29:17.609 deep dive into that but a lot of interfacing 00:29:17.609 --> 00:29:20.650 with telecoms a lot of interfacing with building 00:29:20.650 --> 00:29:23.990 networks and what what went wrong there's some 00:29:23.990 --> 00:29:26.450 papers on it maybe we can link it chris for the 00:29:26.450 --> 00:29:28.269 readers to have a broader understanding but yeah 00:29:28.269 --> 00:29:31.309 the rest of the team too just top level people 00:29:31.309 --> 00:29:37.759 um donald and tom came from deep deep deep decades 00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:40.680 experience in telecom they built wi -fi offloading 00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:46.440 businesses in asia asian markets um decades worth 00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:48.920 of signing roaming deals roaming partnerships 00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:52.759 and yeah they're just it's just a great group 00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:55.579 of people um i'm honestly pretty privileged to 00:29:55.579 --> 00:29:58.619 be be amongst them and i think they have what 00:29:58.619 --> 00:30:01.940 it takes we have what it takes to kind of bridge 00:30:01.940 --> 00:30:06.170 the gap between the oligopoly of telecom and 00:30:06.170 --> 00:30:09.089 this new idea of using blockchain incentives 00:30:09.089 --> 00:30:13.750 and crypto to, you know, distribute and share 00:30:13.750 --> 00:30:17.150 resources amongst everyone. So I think it's definitely, 00:30:17.210 --> 00:30:20.049 we have an exceptional, exceptional team. Can't 00:30:20.049 --> 00:30:23.529 talk more highly of them for sure. That's great. 00:30:23.670 --> 00:30:27.089 It's a fundamental part of a succeeding project 00:30:27.089 --> 00:30:30.130 is to have a good team and people that know what 00:30:30.130 --> 00:30:32.029 they're talking about. It's good that there's 00:30:32.029 --> 00:30:34.680 people coming from, different industries all 00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:37.880 together and sharing their knowledge, which is 00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:40.019 - Oh, yeah, yeah. And just another point on that, 00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:44.460 something that our friends at Escape Velocity 00:30:44.460 --> 00:30:50.240 Ventures, EV3 Sal, always says is one of the 00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:53.460 biggest signals as an investor to them is when 00:30:53.460 --> 00:30:56.279 they see a bunch of smart people, say like Russ 00:30:56.279 --> 00:30:58.900 and Joe, right? Coming from these traditional 00:30:58.900 --> 00:31:02.140 telecom backgrounds, even like most of our team, 00:31:02.180 --> 00:31:05.900 Rich. Donald and Tom, Alex, coming from traditional 00:31:05.900 --> 00:31:09.319 backgrounds and leaving that for something like 00:31:09.319 --> 00:31:12.759 this, right? That's a really, really big signal 00:31:12.759 --> 00:31:15.059 on the market and just the conviction of the 00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:17.680 space when you have people that have produced 00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:20.480 tremendous value in our society doing other things 00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:22.859 in science and technology. And they're coming 00:31:22.859 --> 00:31:26.619 into this deepened space to kind of revolutionize 00:31:26.619 --> 00:31:29.839 how wireless connectivity is thought about. in 00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:32.079 the United States and maybe one day across the 00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:34.339 world. So it's definitely a very, very bullish 00:31:34.339 --> 00:31:37.559 signal and very, very happy to be building this 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:42.559 with them. Yeah, absolutely. I have one or two 00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:47.200 more questions. I'm curious, does XNet have any 00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:51.059 plans to be listed on not only an exchange, like 00:31:51.059 --> 00:31:54.240 maybe even a deck? Because I know that's pretty 00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:57.920 easy to address, but a centralized exchange and 00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:02.079 or? Any sort of sites like CoinMarketCap or CoinGecko? 00:32:02.380 --> 00:32:04.920 Yeah, I actually won't spend too much time talking 00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:08.400 about like DEXs or SEXs. But yeah, I actually 00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:13.119 just got us listed on CoinGecko. So XNet is up 00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:16.900 and running there. It's great. Awesome. We're 00:32:16.900 --> 00:32:20.660 also more on the DEX side, working some partnerships 00:32:20.660 --> 00:32:23.900 with IoTeX. They're launching kind of a lot of 00:32:23.900 --> 00:32:26.380 deep end products. So be on the lookout there. 00:32:26.500 --> 00:32:28.269 You'll probably see more and more there. So if 00:32:28.269 --> 00:32:30.670 XNet were to succeed with your short -term goals, 00:32:30.950 --> 00:32:33.869 what's the future roadmap look like? Is it going 00:32:33.869 --> 00:32:37.309 to be more locations? Are there going to be different 00:32:37.309 --> 00:32:41.089 incentives? What do you guys got in mind? Should 00:32:41.089 --> 00:32:44.069 roaming agreements and partnerships come to fruition 00:32:44.069 --> 00:32:47.210 within the coming future? And do you have to 00:32:47.210 --> 00:32:50.230 continue to build this ecosystem? Yeah, no, great 00:32:50.230 --> 00:32:52.990 question. I think getting that first roaming 00:32:52.990 --> 00:32:56.680 agreement with the major... participant in the 00:32:56.680 --> 00:32:59.240 traditional telecom industry is definitely kind 00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:03.160 of the biggest step and then obviously interconnecting 00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:05.799 with them and getting their customers to roam 00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:08.279 onto the extent network proves out the model 00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:11.660 right so that's that would say is our goal obviously 00:33:11.660 --> 00:33:14.519 it's taken a bit longer than we've expected but 00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:17.460 the fact that we're even here and it's happening 00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:20.380 right now i think is a really really revolutionary 00:33:20.380 --> 00:33:23.859 thing that people shouldn't shouldn't fade at 00:33:23.859 --> 00:33:25.640 all right because this is we're talking about 00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:29.299 trillion dollar telecom industry that a small 00:33:29.299 --> 00:33:31.720 startup with like i think we have 10 full -time 00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:35.700 people right now is setting to disrupt so i think 00:33:35.700 --> 00:33:38.039 it's it's very bullish but yeah on future plans 00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:42.660 i mean the plan is to have mno's there's four 00:33:42.660 --> 00:33:44.839 big ones as we know them get agreements signed 00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:48.039 with all of them get all of their get all of 00:33:48.039 --> 00:33:51.279 them to roam onto the extent network and in parallel 00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:54.039 with that expand right Work with them, see where 00:33:54.039 --> 00:33:58.819 they have pain points. Each of these companies 00:33:58.819 --> 00:34:01.400 definitely have pain points in certain areas. 00:34:01.700 --> 00:34:03.980 They might be different areas. So work with them, 00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:06.420 fill those pain points because we can do it at 00:34:06.420 --> 00:34:10.440 a fraction of the cost. And yeah, then expand 00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:13.579 to MVNOs, right? Those are like your Mint Mobiles 00:34:13.579 --> 00:34:17.000 and Visible. I've seen a lot of ads for Visible 00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:21.380 from Verizon. They honestly have to pay MNOs. 00:34:21.769 --> 00:34:24.710 to use their network. So paying someone like 00:34:24.710 --> 00:34:28.469 Xnet is basically a no brainer, right? For them. 00:34:28.489 --> 00:34:31.130 And yeah, I think once we start landing these 00:34:31.130 --> 00:34:34.590 roaming agreements and our buy burn starts happening 00:34:34.590 --> 00:34:37.170 and just, I didn't bring up this point, but every 00:34:37.170 --> 00:34:40.190 dollar we get in revenue from say Verizon, Dish, 00:34:40.289 --> 00:34:43.210 AT &T, T -Mobile, or whether it be Mint Mobile 00:34:43.210 --> 00:34:47.110 or Revisible, we use 40 % of that to buy and 00:34:47.110 --> 00:34:50.639 burn the Xnet token off open markets. And I think 00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:53.500 this will really kind of start the flywheel that 00:34:53.500 --> 00:34:57.840 I envision maybe in the next 10 years that XNet, 00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.340 you know, just spreads like wildfire. The incentives 00:35:00.340 --> 00:35:02.679 are there, aligned. There's enough demand and 00:35:02.679 --> 00:35:05.639 liquidity in markets. And at that point, people 00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:09.500 can just put up a 5G radio on their balcony, 00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:12.039 right? We can get one in every apartment. And 00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:15.800 I think that's the true vision of XNet one day 00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:18.039 in the future. It's obviously optimistic, but 00:35:18.039 --> 00:35:20.829 I like to think big. I think that's where I see 00:35:20.829 --> 00:35:25.510 us in 10 years. One thing that I did mean to 00:35:25.510 --> 00:35:29.489 ask earlier on in the interview is, if you're 00:35:29.489 --> 00:35:33.030 looking at the X -Men Explorer, what is the significance 00:35:33.030 --> 00:35:38.389 of the gold and silver hexes as well as the blue 00:35:38.389 --> 00:35:43.650 outlined areas? Yeah, so basically the different 00:35:43.650 --> 00:35:47.269 colors, right? Gold, silver, and blue. I'll start 00:35:47.269 --> 00:35:49.489 with gold. I actually wrote a paper on this. 00:35:49.590 --> 00:35:52.010 I think it's pinned on my Twitter or you can 00:35:52.010 --> 00:35:55.630 check out my sub stack, but I called it the decentralized 00:35:55.630 --> 00:36:00.949 telecom gold rush. So basically these gold, silver 00:36:00.949 --> 00:36:03.429 and blue are kind of denominations of our token 00:36:03.429 --> 00:36:08.590 rewards. So basically think gold is gold. So 00:36:08.590 --> 00:36:10.869 you're getting the highest incentive reward and 00:36:10.869 --> 00:36:14.269 it's basically one -to -one aligned with the 00:36:14.269 --> 00:36:17.989 demand that's present in that area. which we've 00:36:17.989 --> 00:36:22.610 used, which identified through telco industry 00:36:22.610 --> 00:36:25.530 tools, everything that the telcos use to plan 00:36:25.530 --> 00:36:27.849 networks, map out, see where there's dead spots. 00:36:28.150 --> 00:36:31.110 We use the same tools along with some proprietary 00:36:31.110 --> 00:36:35.349 data to pinpoint those locations saying, hey, 00:36:35.369 --> 00:36:38.530 this is where there's all carriers or some carriers 00:36:38.530 --> 00:36:41.650 have critical, critical pain points. And this 00:36:41.650 --> 00:36:45.250 is where the XNet reward token for deploying 00:36:45.250 --> 00:36:48.059 is the highest. So it follows similarly, as you 00:36:48.059 --> 00:36:50.760 asked, gold is the highest, silver and blue are 00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:53.800 eligible zones. There's not high, high demand 00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:56.420 there, which is why it's not as much incentivized, 00:36:56.440 --> 00:36:59.119 but it's great auxiliary coverage, right? So 00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:02.940 once we fill the gold hexes, silver hexes, people 00:37:02.940 --> 00:37:05.059 can come around and hopefully when we start that 00:37:05.059 --> 00:37:08.980 buy burn 40 % of revenues, people can start filling 00:37:08.980 --> 00:37:11.780 those up too. And I mean, anywhere you go, it's 00:37:11.780 --> 00:37:13.619 excellent. It was still going to be a cheaper 00:37:13.619 --> 00:37:16.340 alternative, but. It's just very important to 00:37:16.340 --> 00:37:18.719 focus on a specific area at first when we're 00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:20.880 obviously we're launching with limited resources. 00:37:21.099 --> 00:37:23.699 We're trying to build a minimum viable product 00:37:23.699 --> 00:37:26.760 and get this stuff going in within like a year. 00:37:26.840 --> 00:37:29.539 So that's basically kind of the twofold purpose 00:37:29.539 --> 00:37:31.980 of those things. But yeah, it's demand aligned. 00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:34.980 It's incentive aligned. It's an incentive alignment 00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:37.199 pretty much, I guess, is like a two word answer. 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:40.539 One thing I wanted to jump in on that you touched 00:37:40.539 --> 00:37:43.480 on and, you know, like why would carriers do 00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:46.610 this? And this is really, you know, you mentioned 00:37:46.610 --> 00:37:49.750 like EV3, they put out some excellent kind of 00:37:49.750 --> 00:37:53.190 research on the space and why this model makes 00:37:53.190 --> 00:37:55.269 sense. But I wanted to, you know, highlight that 00:37:55.269 --> 00:37:57.929 really specifically why a carrier would want 00:37:57.929 --> 00:38:02.469 to work with XNet for neutral offload if it's 00:38:02.469 --> 00:38:05.610 of a sufficient quality is because it saves them 00:38:05.610 --> 00:38:08.969 a lot of money to put up like a Verizon site 00:38:08.969 --> 00:38:12.420 or AT &T site or T -Mobile site. even for what 00:38:12.420 --> 00:38:15.019 we would call a small cell so maybe just on top 00:38:15.019 --> 00:38:19.340 of a light pole that could easily cost several 00:38:19.340 --> 00:38:22.519 hundred thousand dollars which sounds crazy but 00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:25.360 when you add up how long it takes the approvals 00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:28.699 that are needed the cost of the contractors it 00:38:28.699 --> 00:38:30.920 gets very expensive very quickly not to mention 00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:33.739 it it takes a long time typically six months 00:38:33.739 --> 00:38:37.239 or more can take years and here i mean if you 00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:39.809 can being able to put up a site for a tiny fraction 00:38:39.809 --> 00:38:44.349 of that cost with good backhaul with good radios 00:38:44.349 --> 00:38:47.289 with a good global core i mean you can do it 00:38:47.289 --> 00:38:48.969 for a tiny fraction of that and you can do it 00:38:48.969 --> 00:38:50.809 very very quickly with the right incentives as 00:38:50.809 --> 00:38:53.750 well so that's why i think carriers are are very 00:38:53.750 --> 00:38:55.650 interested especially in the current environment 00:38:55.650 --> 00:38:59.230 we're in now where it's so expensive to borrow 00:38:59.230 --> 00:39:01.809 money and to build out infrastructure this just 00:39:01.809 --> 00:39:04.889 seems like a very obvious thing to do like why 00:39:04.889 --> 00:39:07.659 wouldn't you do this Obviously, you know, XNet's 00:39:07.659 --> 00:39:10.280 working on the details that matter quite a bit 00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:12.360 because they control their networks, they control 00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:15.340 the customers and the traffic. But the pressure 00:39:15.340 --> 00:39:18.199 for them to open up and to do this, I think, 00:39:18.199 --> 00:39:19.940 has never been higher. So I want to build off 00:39:19.940 --> 00:39:23.579 that last statement Russ made and pose a philosophical 00:39:23.579 --> 00:39:26.460 question for everyone here, something I've been 00:39:26.460 --> 00:39:29.760 contemplating lately. So let's say XNet does 00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:34.679 break down this wall and prove the deep end concept. 00:39:35.289 --> 00:39:37.750 decentralized physical infrastructure networks 00:39:37.750 --> 00:39:41.409 that are community incentivized. And they break 00:39:41.409 --> 00:39:45.989 the barrier of utility value inflow being greater 00:39:45.989 --> 00:39:50.730 than the token emission outflow of value. What 00:39:50.730 --> 00:39:54.309 to say that proving this model gets significant 00:39:54.309 --> 00:39:58.750 attention from the venture capital and investment 00:39:58.750 --> 00:40:02.389 crowd, and they decide we don't need all this 00:40:02.389 --> 00:40:04.369 crypto stuff. We don't need tokens for this. 00:40:04.840 --> 00:40:08.059 We can do this with fiat currency. We know it 00:40:08.059 --> 00:40:11.340 works. We know it can be profitable. Let's get 00:40:11.340 --> 00:40:14.219 rid of the crypto crap, as they would call it, 00:40:14.260 --> 00:40:19.260 and do this with fiat because it opens up a larger 00:40:19.260 --> 00:40:22.719 crowd, more options to host this type of hardware, 00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:25.119 to host these networks. What are your guys' thoughts 00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:27.780 on that? Yeah, I can take the first stab and 00:40:27.780 --> 00:40:30.159 then you guys can kind of fill in where I leave 00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:32.280 off. But yeah, I think that's a great point, 00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:35.199 Joe. There's still... I guess dealing with these 00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:37.619 physical infrastructure networks or just kind 00:40:37.619 --> 00:40:40.280 of real world assets that are being put on chain, 00:40:40.539 --> 00:40:43.760 there's still this kind of mishap, right? Because 00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:46.579 there's this, we have small communities that 00:40:46.579 --> 00:40:52.059 know about the space. It's obviously like walking 00:40:52.059 --> 00:40:54.260 over, say if I walk over the other apartment 00:40:54.260 --> 00:40:57.559 across my street and explain this to some random 00:40:57.559 --> 00:40:59.039 person over there, they're going to be like, 00:40:59.260 --> 00:41:03.059 I don't want. a crypto like i don't want a token 00:41:03.059 --> 00:41:05.599 like you know that's that's where often i've 00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:08.940 also pitched x net a lot here um in denver to 00:41:08.940 --> 00:41:11.539 traditional kind of startup week events traditional 00:41:11.539 --> 00:41:14.219 startups you know not much um experience in blockchain 00:41:14.219 --> 00:41:16.719 and crypto and that's where the fall off point 00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:18.619 kind of happens it's like you're following they're 00:41:18.619 --> 00:41:21.400 following everything up until the point where 00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:23.579 you mentioned the token and then they're like 00:41:23.579 --> 00:41:27.380 huh like why can't i just give cash well all 00:41:27.380 --> 00:41:30.179 right so it's like the crypto Obviously, there's 00:41:30.179 --> 00:41:33.059 a speculative nature to it. That's just how the 00:41:33.059 --> 00:41:36.000 markets work. But sure, you may have more upside, 00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:37.760 but I completely agree with you. There should 00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:41.539 be systems denominated. I don't think like the 00:41:41.539 --> 00:41:45.820 VC model where they just dish out like millions 00:41:45.820 --> 00:41:48.179 of millions of dollars to build this stuff up 00:41:48.179 --> 00:41:50.920 will ever work. But I do think one day like the 00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:53.659 token being taken out of kind of the system, 00:41:53.699 --> 00:41:57.840 right? Like people having off ramps. So say... 00:41:58.300 --> 00:42:00.340 This person can set up a radio at their house 00:42:00.340 --> 00:42:04.460 and every month they're just getting a bank deposit, 00:42:04.820 --> 00:42:08.579 no wallets involved. They're just getting a bank 00:42:08.579 --> 00:42:11.800 deposit in US dollars for the token conversion 00:42:11.800 --> 00:42:14.019 that's happening. But I think to get to that, 00:42:14.139 --> 00:42:17.880 achieving like a lot of volume of real world 00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:21.260 revenues and just having stable, sufficient liquidity 00:42:21.260 --> 00:42:24.219 in the market is definitely an important step. 00:42:24.539 --> 00:42:27.260 But yeah, Russ or Chris, if you want to kind 00:42:27.260 --> 00:42:29.829 of expand on. I think it's going to be dealt 00:42:29.829 --> 00:42:33.030 with on a case by case basis because I don't 00:42:33.030 --> 00:42:35.949 think Xnet is going to be the only blockchain 00:42:35.949 --> 00:42:39.309 powered telecom company in the future. I have 00:42:39.309 --> 00:42:42.170 a feeling similar to Helium. When you have a 00:42:42.170 --> 00:42:43.929 pioneer in the space, there's a lot of people 00:42:43.929 --> 00:42:47.429 that will come and try to just create competition 00:42:47.429 --> 00:42:50.750 because it's no good to have a market without 00:42:50.750 --> 00:42:53.289 competition. It makes both companies strive to 00:42:53.289 --> 00:42:58.019 be better. And I think in the case of Xnet. because 00:42:58.019 --> 00:43:00.780 they are the first people in this space to go 00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:03.460 for a fully functional network. They're going 00:43:03.460 --> 00:43:05.840 to have an edge over anyone else that tries to 00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:07.599 join, especially with the team that they have 00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:10.039 and the experience that they have. It'll be interesting. 00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:12.559 They could go either way. And if they do decide 00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:15.500 to go with just cash, there's not really much 00:43:15.500 --> 00:43:18.420 that the crypto industry could do other than 00:43:18.420 --> 00:43:21.840 convince them that crypto is the future and show 00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:24.250 them the benefits. Basically, what I was trying 00:43:24.250 --> 00:43:26.650 to say is if these telecom companies decide that 00:43:26.650 --> 00:43:28.929 they don't want to use crypto, I think they will 00:43:28.929 --> 00:43:31.610 gain an audience in the fact that they'll be 00:43:31.610 --> 00:43:34.250 able to use just cash for all their funding and 00:43:34.250 --> 00:43:37.289 whatnot. But the crypto industry is continuing 00:43:37.289 --> 00:43:39.909 to grow. I think it's going to hurt them in the 00:43:39.909 --> 00:43:42.769 long run. And I think if they want to be around 00:43:42.769 --> 00:43:44.570 in the long run and they've been around for a 00:43:44.570 --> 00:43:47.389 couple of decades now, if they want to still 00:43:47.389 --> 00:43:50.150 be relevant in the future, I think they're going 00:43:50.150 --> 00:43:53.599 to have to look at. hand that is dealt to them 00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:55.900 and see that, hey, crypto is really gaining some 00:43:55.900 --> 00:43:59.380 traction. And specifically this company called 00:43:59.380 --> 00:44:02.179 Xnet. So let's take a look at them and let's 00:44:02.179 --> 00:44:04.519 see what we can do. And I think that's what's 00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:07.000 going to end up happening. Or you're going to 00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:09.300 see what happened to Blockbuster and many companies 00:44:09.300 --> 00:44:11.340 in the past where they pretty much don't adapt 00:44:11.340 --> 00:44:14.460 to the changing environment and their companies 00:44:14.460 --> 00:44:17.320 just cease to exist. Yeah. And just one more 00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:20.840 point to that. I think we, Russ and Joe, we talked 00:44:20.840 --> 00:44:23.969 about it. recently a few weeks ago on the x net 00:44:23.969 --> 00:44:27.110 podcast but this idea right chris you mentioned 00:44:27.110 --> 00:44:31.190 that these oligopolies have existed basically 00:44:31.190 --> 00:44:34.530 connectivity is like whatever fundamental right 00:44:34.530 --> 00:44:37.230 it's it's needed right so these companies are 00:44:37.230 --> 00:44:40.190 going to be needed but if you look at apple right 00:44:40.190 --> 00:44:43.289 kind of one of if you want to have a good look 00:44:43.289 --> 00:44:45.690 on where markets are headed you you look at what 00:44:45.690 --> 00:44:48.210 apple is doing you look at what google is doing 00:44:48.210 --> 00:44:50.269 you look at what amazon is doing to kind of get 00:44:50.269 --> 00:44:52.940 a glimpse into what the future of technologies 00:44:52.940 --> 00:44:56.260 will look like and what sort of competition, 00:44:56.480 --> 00:44:59.039 what sort of businesses will be present in that 00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:01.820 future. And Apple is kind of the biggest signal 00:45:01.820 --> 00:45:05.159 for this because obviously most people in America 00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:08.360 and across the world are Apple customer of an 00:45:08.360 --> 00:45:12.460 Apple phone. And they recently pivoted to only 00:45:12.460 --> 00:45:16.760 being eSIMs. So an eSIM is obviously you don't 00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:18.800 need the physical SIM card in your phone anymore. 00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:22.679 It's all kind of on the back end. And they have, 00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:25.699 I think it's up to eight eSIMs now on their newest 00:45:25.699 --> 00:45:28.460 models, which basically leads you to showing 00:45:28.460 --> 00:45:30.719 that the future of connectivity and wireless 00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:33.559 networks is going to be agnostic. It's not going 00:45:33.559 --> 00:45:36.579 to be that you have one or two networks serving 00:45:36.579 --> 00:45:39.760 all your needs because how the demand for data 00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:43.679 and just the projected growth is going. The current 00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:46.179 companies are not equipped to deal with it. So 00:45:46.179 --> 00:45:47.880 Apple envisions a future where there's going 00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:50.599 to be multiple, multiple networks that have hardware 00:45:50.599 --> 00:45:53.400 that are providing connectivity. And you'll just 00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:56.260 be able to scan a QR code and download an eSIM 00:45:56.260 --> 00:45:58.619 and be able to use that network anywhere you 00:45:58.619 --> 00:46:01.739 are. So I think that's definitely part of this 00:46:01.739 --> 00:46:04.420 whole puzzle, too. And it's a very, very bullish 00:46:04.420 --> 00:46:07.619 signal from the market itself that we're progressing 00:46:07.619 --> 00:46:10.539 towards a different future in wireless connectivity. 00:46:12.150 --> 00:46:14.210 Bullish times, folks, bullish times for sure. 00:46:14.489 --> 00:46:16.610 Russ, would you like to give your take on that? 00:46:16.789 --> 00:46:19.190 Yeah. So actually this comes out of really, you 00:46:19.190 --> 00:46:21.269 know, several discussions I had at Mobile World 00:46:21.269 --> 00:46:25.469 Congress. So as this, you know, we're definitely 00:46:25.469 --> 00:46:28.210 in a tough market. This is when your belief in 00:46:28.210 --> 00:46:30.570 this market, belief in this movement really gets 00:46:30.570 --> 00:46:34.789 tested because economically it can be hard to 00:46:34.789 --> 00:46:38.409 make sense right now. You know, several people 00:46:38.409 --> 00:46:40.480 I think right now are running. you know having 00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:42.480 trouble kind of carrying their their current 00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:44.579 costs but are hopeful that that'll you know that 00:46:44.579 --> 00:46:48.440 will change very soon and flip very quickly which 00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:52.260 i think it will as well these problems with being 00:46:52.260 --> 00:46:56.559 able to pay people whether it's in fiat or crypto 00:46:56.559 --> 00:47:01.400 or a more stable crypto like usdc uh i think 00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:02.659 are going to be solved very quickly there's a 00:47:02.659 --> 00:47:05.510 lot of people know about this problem and There's 00:47:05.510 --> 00:47:07.670 a lot of, I think, bridges and solutions currently 00:47:07.670 --> 00:47:09.449 being developed. They're going to make it very, 00:47:09.570 --> 00:47:13.570 very easy for revenue to go out, whether you 00:47:13.570 --> 00:47:18.750 can pitch to somebody and not even mention the 00:47:18.750 --> 00:47:20.989 word crypto, and they get paid in cash and just 00:47:20.989 --> 00:47:22.690 say it's a revenue share of what's earned. Keep 00:47:22.690 --> 00:47:24.769 it very, very simple. And I think that's going 00:47:24.769 --> 00:47:27.070 to be easier and easier, especially next year. 00:47:27.369 --> 00:47:28.989 There's going to be several solutions, I think, 00:47:29.010 --> 00:47:30.349 in the market coming up that are going to address 00:47:30.349 --> 00:47:34.269 that. And I'm very excited for the space as well. 00:47:35.309 --> 00:47:37.730 There are many opportunities to where it's not 00:47:37.730 --> 00:47:40.690 just putting up XNet makes sense, but other projects 00:47:40.690 --> 00:47:43.750 in the space that aren't cellular make sense 00:47:43.750 --> 00:47:45.929 as well. They're trying to get other data. There's 00:47:45.929 --> 00:47:50.050 GPS data. There's weather data. There's noise 00:47:50.050 --> 00:47:52.690 quality data. There's all types of data they 00:47:52.690 --> 00:47:54.289 can get. And a lot of it could be done in the 00:47:54.289 --> 00:47:56.929 same location, sometimes with the same hardware. 00:47:57.369 --> 00:48:00.949 which is very, very exciting. So I think that 00:48:00.949 --> 00:48:03.690 is a problem in the industry right now, especially 00:48:03.690 --> 00:48:06.110 if you don't want to get classified for switching 00:48:06.110 --> 00:48:09.170 crypto for cash. That's something you definitely 00:48:09.170 --> 00:48:12.550 don't want to do. There are some contract solutions 00:48:12.550 --> 00:48:14.989 that are out there, but getting a solution where 00:48:14.989 --> 00:48:16.369 it goes to cash, I think that's going to become 00:48:16.369 --> 00:48:18.650 more and more commonplace and cross -chain in 00:48:18.650 --> 00:48:20.809 the very near future. So I'm very excited about 00:48:20.809 --> 00:48:22.210 it. I think it's only going to get easier and 00:48:22.210 --> 00:48:25.170 better. But this is it. This is the bear market. 00:48:25.530 --> 00:48:28.570 Your resilience is being tested, and we'll see 00:48:28.570 --> 00:48:30.550 what it's like on the other side. Well, I'll 00:48:30.550 --> 00:48:33.690 give my take on it, answer my own question. So 00:48:33.690 --> 00:48:39.010 I'm not necessarily a crypto maxi. I'm a decentralization 00:48:39.010 --> 00:48:44.889 maxi. I'm a big advocate for this shared economy, 00:48:45.070 --> 00:48:48.250 shared infrastructure model built by the community 00:48:48.250 --> 00:48:52.869 in a manner that people are able to be compensated. 00:48:53.420 --> 00:48:57.300 for their efforts or for their assets that they're 00:48:57.300 --> 00:49:00.360 willing to provide and share, right? It gives 00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:02.579 the power back to the people, puts the money 00:49:02.579 --> 00:49:05.579 back in their pocket. And whether that's done 00:49:05.579 --> 00:49:09.179 with a token or with fiat doesn't really matter 00:49:09.179 --> 00:49:14.739 to me. It's the concept. And if crypto proves 00:49:14.739 --> 00:49:19.619 this concept of the shared economy, the D -PIN 00:49:19.619 --> 00:49:23.079 or community, incentivized and driven projects, 00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:25.699 I think will have done its job for the good of 00:49:25.699 --> 00:49:27.900 humanity. So I do believe it's very possible 00:49:27.900 --> 00:49:31.079 that we do see community incentivized projects, 00:49:31.380 --> 00:49:34.659 deepened projects that will not be crypto based 00:49:34.659 --> 00:49:36.980 in the future. They could even be blockchain 00:49:36.980 --> 00:49:40.340 based without the token. There's blockchain records 00:49:40.340 --> 00:49:44.760 of not necessarily transactions, but events. 00:49:45.139 --> 00:49:47.820 Well, Sean, to wrap this up, how would one get 00:49:47.820 --> 00:49:51.059 involved in the project? Yeah, for sure. Well, 00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:54.159 first of all, kind of as Joe said, if you're 00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:57.460 interested in just the first principles of decentralization 00:49:57.460 --> 00:50:00.400 and something that excites you, we're building 00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:03.300 something of real value to the world. And we 00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:06.559 believe that decentralizing it can provide a 00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:09.500 lot for people, for communities that don't have 00:50:09.500 --> 00:50:12.860 access to Internet or that need better connectivity 00:50:12.860 --> 00:50:16.579 and stripping away some of that power from these 00:50:16.579 --> 00:50:20.449 existing oligopolies. first of all, just join 00:50:20.449 --> 00:50:23.150 our Discord, you know, become a part of the conversation. 00:50:23.730 --> 00:50:26.170 Even if you don't have capital or resources to 00:50:26.170 --> 00:50:29.949 participate, we'd love for you to give your two 00:50:29.949 --> 00:50:32.110 cents, give your feedback, just be a part of 00:50:32.110 --> 00:50:34.349 the movement, right? We're only as powerful as 00:50:34.349 --> 00:50:36.449 our community is at the end of the day, right? 00:50:36.570 --> 00:50:39.170 Where we want to be expanding. So please join 00:50:39.170 --> 00:50:42.070 our Discord. And from there, yeah, you can kind 00:50:42.070 --> 00:50:45.190 of get on ramp to the XNet community and see 00:50:45.190 --> 00:50:46.789 if there's an opportunity if you live in the 00:50:46.789 --> 00:50:50.880 US to deploy. your own network help with that 00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:54.920 or just participate in community protocols community 00:50:54.920 --> 00:50:58.800 calls developing proposals it's all an open community 00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:03.239 and we believe in kind of the community's participation 00:51:03.239 --> 00:51:06.639 in it so definitely we'll be linking the discord 00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:09.639 probably wherever you post this video chris but 00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:14.699 come on board we're happy to have everyone help 00:51:14.699 --> 00:51:17.400 us on this mission Thank you Sean and Russ for 00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:19.159 coming on today and Joe as always for helping 00:51:19.159 --> 00:51:22.119 co -host. If anyone is interested in XNet, be 00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:23.940 sure to check out the description for more information.