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This program is intended for mature audiences and may cause cancer in at-risk populations.
Welcome to Untitled Podcast.
Untitled Podcast, everybody.
67.
Tyler and your special guest, Gwinsky.
Hello, sir.
Hello, gentlemen.
Thanks for coming on.
Oh, absolutely.
And also our lawyer.
We got a lot of issues for you.
I see, I see.
How much do you know about copyright law?
Absolutely nothing.
So, tell us what kind of law you practice.
Alright, first of all, as with any lawyer listening to this, I would say I'm not providing any specific legal advice to any person, circumstances, all for discussion, for entertainment purposes.
Yes, yes.
This is all hypothetical.
Hypothetical.
I don't want you guys getting arrested talking about my lawyer said I could do this or that.
This is in Minecraft.
What if I give you like $5 to represent?
Nope.
You're watching too much TV.
Alright, so to answer your question, I primarily practice criminal defense.
So criminal law, a little bit of a landlord tenant, some civil stuff here and there.
Oh, nice.
Some family stuff here and there.
So for like criminal court, is that just like the generalized, like you got arrested type thing?
A public defender?
No, I'm not a public defender in the sense that I don't work for like a government agency that is called the public defender's office, but we're pretty much on the same team.
The public defender is a defense attorney that works for the government.
The defense attorney is a defense attorney who works for a private firm or organization or something like that.
So you guys are like defense, right? Not offense?
Yes, unless we have to throw somebody else under the bus and then we're kind of offense too.
So would you rather be like a lawyer for a defendant or a plaintiff?
What do you prefer? Or is it just like case to case type thing?
So everybody's entitled to be competently defended on the legal end.
But at the same time, that doesn't mean everybody's a good person. You know what I mean?
Yeah. So I was like watching these, all these like Nick, the Nick Cruz trial recently and like the lawyers who had to defend him.
I was wondering like, how do you represent someone, you know, who is guilty and it's morally wrong to like, they did something that's really morally wrong.
Like, how do you defend them? How do you justify it?
So you're asking if like I believe or like I have information that like substantially proves that they did what they did.
No, how do you like morally like how you morally deal with that? Like defending Nick Cruz.
So I, I take the the bigger picture approach, right?
We live in the United States of America, where we have a very specific set of rights that are guaranteed to all of us, all citizens and visitors and anybody who may step or interact with our land.
And it is not actually my job to prove that this person did it or really to prove that this person didn't do it.
My job is to put the prosecution up to their burden of proof to to make sure the prosecution is doing their job of not only like substance or subsidously proving that they did it, but also proving that they followed the appropriate procedure to prove that they did it and that everybody's rights were protected and everybody
like basically that their proceedings were kosher. And if at the end of the day, like if I can poke holes in their story or, you know, get a jury to come back with a not guilty verdict, I don't see that necessarily as I'm like letting them offer.
You're just trying to prove the truth.
I mean, not even I'm just trying to make sure that the prosecution is doing their job of proving that my client did it.
So again, we're all entitled to rights and I'm just protecting the rights of everyone.
I mean, you guys know as much as I do, anybody can be accused at any time of doing anything.
Right. But how do you think those those lawyers feel that represented Cruz that he got, he didn't get the death penalty, got life in prison.
Which one was that? Was that the, which school shooter was that? Or is that just like a Florida Parkland?
Oh, yeah, I believe he he ended the life of 17 students or like 16 students when I dealt with something like that.
Yeah.
So I think the lawyers were doing their job and I think they were really upholding what they they stand for by protecting his rights just like anybody else.
It's easy. It's easy to look at that situation and just go like he should be punished immediately, put him to death.
You know, we have video footage, we have so many witnesses. But again, if we start down that rabbit hole, when do you stop?
When do you stop? And are we going to turn back into like French Revolution and like take him to the guillotine?
And I think it's those those those individuals like the lawyers who represented Cruz that keep like the threads of the the legal system we created here in the United States together and keep it from from falling into disrepair.
It's a good answer.
Can you actually like as a lawyer, like if a guy comes to you and like it's like like a crime that you're just like, I'm not going to like can you like deny people if they want to use your services?
Yes. That's one of the benefits we have on the private end is that we don't have to take any one specific client.
I don't know how that works in the public defender's end, where like if the government is being appointed to represent them, they might not have that type of flexibility to deny or to like reject a certain amount of cases.
But on the private end, we absolutely can.
How come the government appointed like 10 lawyers for Nicholas Cruz? Don't they only usually get one?
So if you're taking something to trial, especially something that high risk, you typically will have a defense team, even if every lawyer is not sitting there next to him.
There's a lot that are like consulted based off of their specialty, the type of evidence that are of all the amount of witnesses who need to be examined or cross examined.
So they're it's pretty normal to have a pretty extensive defense team with that high level.
Yeah, I mean, like it's just like the whole like legal aspect of things has always been like interesting to me with that, because like there's so much that goes into it that you don't even like think about as just like a normal person.
Like there's so many like different angles that you can do things like from just like cases that I've seen and stuff like I have some of these laws that like are like put in there and like some of like the like different ways.
I'm like, I never in a million years would I ever be like penal code like fucking 3356 or something states this like do you guys like memorize that or do you have to go through it like and like kind of like go back and like refresh type things or do you have like a general idea of where things are or is it just like all like memorize like the laws and stuff?
So that's a I think that's really a two sided question here.
One on the legal end.
I would be lying if I said I know every law that's out there. Yeah, I don't. It's impossible to between federal law, state law, local ordinances, each town, each municipality can enact local ordinances.
It's impossible for me to know every single law plus they change every legislative sessions, right?
But the important thing to know how to do is be able to like research and defend those laws and just kind of have a general understanding of what the procedure is of how to handle each individual case with the burden of proof is how to do the legal research on it.
And if I get a like a criminal charge that I've never like seen before, which did happen to me with some of the hunting laws in New York, you know, I didn't grow up a hunter.
I really wasn't familiar with that world. But the important thing to like remain confident on a case is to be able to do that research and to be able to recognize like how much I don't know and, you know, sit down and take a night to really research the case law, see what other people did.
So I think that's typically what most attorneys will do with new cases. Now, after you've been doing something for a while, like if you like choose hunting law as your area of practice.
I'm sure you know you could walk into court and you know be able to rattle off statutes same thing with like traffic tickets and you know speeding tickets but you can still defend things you haven't defended before, as long as you are able to apply that that like skill of research and that skill of defense to that new charge.
So the other end of that question is, if the very lawyers, cops and prosecution don't know how many laws are out there and like what's essentially the legislators are telling the people that they have to do it that they can't do.
It's a common person to know what conduct is prohibited, what actions are prohibited. Right, that's what I was thinking about. Like, there's all these fucking laws, and somebody just, you know, can get charged with a misdemeanor or felony, who's not knowing that something was illegal.
Yeah, because there's like the weird like laws that still haven't been taken out but like aren't really enforced like you can't like eat pie on like Tuesday, laws that contradict themselves.
Yeah, there's there's quite a bit of that especially in some of the like like southern western states, there's a lot of that old law that's just not enforced but still on the books.
I don't know if you guys know but like in New York you can actually go to jail for speeding.
Isn't it like felony speed that you get it like if it's like over double the speed limit or something.
So, not even you can spend time in jail for going one mile per hour. Yeah, you can get a few days in jail. That's like the max imprisonment, or time right back sentence.
It's extreme, and we don't I don't know of any cases in my years of practice and I've ever seen anybody go to jail for speeds that low.
But it's still in the books, technically, it's just not used.
Do you think they do that kind of like a, like they have like for specific circumstances like they couldn't get them on something else. So they got them on like speeding or something, because like how Al Capone, obviously, or allegedly did like all those crimes but he got caught
on tax evasion. Is it like one of those type of things where they have kind of like catches for for different other things because you couldn't get them on one thing you got them on another thing type thing.
Yeah, I agree. And I think that's where what we call is pretext stops. If you guys haven't heard of it. That's pretty much when, like you're pulled over for like rolling through a stoplight or like excessive speed something of the sort, but the cop is actually wanting to investigate
you for like a DUI or if you're coming from a known drug area or something of the sort, you know you're driving the lowered Honda Civic 2002 rattling through the neighborhood and he just suspects you're doing something else, but that alone is improbable cause they'll pull you over for a pretext stop, which will give him probable cause.
So you going one over the speed limit, you can still be pulled over for. And if you could be arrested for it, that means that you can be searched incident to arrest. So that just gives the government different avenues to further their investigations. And, you know, they're not really after you for the thing that you did, you know, going
over the speed limit. So, you know, don't they need a reason to search your car other than like running a stop sign. Searching your car is a little different than searching your person incident to arrest.
They can search not only you, but anything that was within like an arm's reach of you. They couldn't go through your whole house necessarily, but they can search like the table and your bag that you were sitting there and your bag sitting under the under the chair. So if they find something on your person, no incident to arrest that might trigger some more probable cause.
So like if I got arrested for going one over the speed limit, like we were talking about, and then they found like a crack pipe on me, then they could search my entire car type thing. Exactly. Exactly. And one of the things I see in these like videos that come across YouTube, do the kids still watch YouTube? Yeah.
Yeah, whatever it is now. My brother, my brother's 10 years younger than me. So he's like 16. So I kind of kind of got like a finger on the pulse with that. They still watch YouTube apparently.
Although they're way too many ads for me, but that's another story. So a lot of these videos I see are like people are genuinely mistaken that police don't have a right to order them out of their car. And the Supreme Court has held that for officer safety purposes, if you are engaged in a lawful interaction with law enforcement, whether it be that you're being detained for a traffic violation, or they're investigating like a suspicion person or something.
Suspicion person or a trespassing or something of the sort, they can order you out of the car. That doesn't necessarily mean you're under arrest. But that means that they are furthering the interaction of having you step out, step to the side of the road. And if you're being investigated for a crime, you can still be put in handcuffs under a detention for officer safety without being under arrest.
But if you feel like you're being wrongly arrested though, your place to have that battle is not on the street. That's in the courtroom.
Those are sovereign citizens that say I'm not part of the United States government. So I don't follow the laws.
Is there actually like a thing for sovereign citizens? Or are you like actually...
No, they just made that up themselves.
Yeah, because I feel like that would be stupid.
They really did. If you are physically present in the jurisdiction, you're subject to the jurisdiction. Absent some sort of diplomatic immunity or those special cases.
The Native Americans.
Native Americans, I'm not too familiar with tribal law. But my understanding is that if they still leave the reserves, they are still subjects to state law as if any other person. Don't quote me on that. I'm not too familiar with tribal law.
Is there actually different laws on reservations and stuff?
They get some flexibility to create some of their own laws. They have their own judicial systems, their own police officers. Some of them even have their own prisons and jails.
This is like getting off topic. But is a reservation not considered America? Or is it considered like its own sovereign type place?
So, America is a land of dual sovereignty. So, in addition to the federal government, that kind of like is this big overarching umbrella. Like each spoke with that umbrella is what we call the 50 states plus the territories and reservations and such.
So, the laws of the reservation kind of run parallel and act as if it were a state government. So, it just recognizes that they have their own, like basically their own municipal authority.
But it goes even further than that because then the village will have their authority. You know, towns have their authority. Cities have their authority to further enact laws, to further enforce laws. But they still enter to this one big arching body is the federal government.
Is there anything above our federal government? Is there like, this is completely out of my stratosphere. Is there like a global law at all? Or is it only country to country?
International law.
Like international law? Like is that like a big like, is there like a thing that's like past the federal court that has to go to international court type things?
Sure. So, when it comes to just inherent authority, it stops at the federal government. Like the Supreme Court often quotes that like they say what the law is and like they set the law of the land.
But the United States has chosen to subscribe to several treaties around the world with several different countries, including the UN. So, by voluntary participation, some of those will end up in international law or maritime law is another big one. But that's by voluntary subscription.
So, I wanted to ask you about the Alec Baldwin case we were talking about. Did you see, do you know anything about that case?
So, if you refresh my memory, that was the prop gun that had a real bullet in it and he shot towards the camera and ended up ending the life of that gentleman.
Yes. So, the armorer on set got just got convicted guilty for man involuntary manslaughter. Okay. And Alec Baldwin is being charged with involuntary manslaughter. His trial is this summer.
But do you think that that's right that they charged him with that? I mean, it was it was like an accident, I think. So.
So, that's what manslaughter is, I thought, was like an accidental killing of somebody else. I guess. But should you should you pay for that in prison? Just for like an accident that somebody else did?
So, I'm going to have to take Tyler's side on this one and I want to dissect like the individual actions that took place leading up to the demise of that particular gentleman.
So, first of all, to be convicted of a killing, not necessarily like a murder, but to be convicted of a killing, whether it's involuntary, voluntary, you know, criminal negligent homicide, you don't necessarily need the intent to kill.
And you actually don't even need the intent to cause harm. But if you were found to have acted in a negligent manner or a grossly negligent or reckless manner that led to somebody's death, you can still be charged and convicted of a killing.
In the case of Alec Baldwin, any firearm owner knows to treat every firearm, gun, shotgun, long gun, whatever it is, to treat it as if it was loaded at all times.
Just because it's a prop on a set doesn't necessarily excuse him from that responsibility or duty of care to the people around him to make sure that that weapon is clear before firing it. Honestly, if you're using a real gun on set and you pick up a gun and you feel like it's real or you know it to be a real gun, you should clear it every time you lose sight of it.
Alec Baldwin is not necessarily a gun expert or even a gun owner.
You don't have to be a gun expert.
If you're using a firearm, you're using a firearm, so you should do basic firearm safety with a firearm. Also, I remember I was watching like a thing on it.
All actors are in the Hollywood law or whatever thing. They are told to clear the chamber, make sure that there's nothing in the chamber. They also did the thing where they shouldn't have live rounds on set, which is a thing that they shouldn't have on set.
But you're supposed to check it, make sure that if it is a blank gun that you're using to make sure that it's a blank in there and it's not an actual bullet, then you can re-rack it or put it back in like if it's a six shooter kind of thing.
And then make sure that you're doing it. And then also don't point it at real people. If you're getting a panning shot type thing, don't point it at somebody. The whole thing with gun safety is never point a gun at something you're not willing to destroy type thing.
That was the first thing that I was taught when I was doing gun safety. If you have a gun, even if you think it's unloaded, never point a gun at something you're not willing to destroy.
And that's why gun stores have the target at the top that's like a bulletproof plate or something. If you're looking to try to look down the sights, they say, look over at this corner and then you can do that.
It's just so you're not pointing at anybody else or anything. So I still think it falls on Alec Baldwin because he failed to inspect the firearm.
I think so too. I have to agree with that. And again, even if he had used that gun 50 times before, prudent duty of care would dictate that he cleared it every time.
Okay, but say...
No, go ahead.
I don't want to excuse the prop manager either because nothing says that only one person has to be at fault. Because if we evaluate the circumstances that led to this death and multiple bad actors or multiple reckless actors are found, each one of them should be held liable individually for their role in the ultimate act that leads up to the criminal charge.
In the case of the prop manager, if he knew that gun was supposed to be pointed at a person, and if he knew that blank was supposed to be in there, he put a live round in there, then that absolutely can also arise to criminal conduct. And he could be held, and honestly, he could even be held civilly by the family of that gentleman.
Oh, the armor. Yeah, she was like a 24 year old girl that was convicted, the one that's supposed to be responsible for handling all the guns on set.
Yeah.
But say you were Alec Baldwin's lawyer, right? And you had to defend him. How would you defend him?
That's a tricky one. Honestly, we switch sides all the time.
Now you've got to switch sides.
Okay, so Alec Baldwin had no intention of hurting anybody. He had no intention of discharging a live round towards anything or anyone.
That's what I'm saying.
He was led to believe, by the very nature of his job, that he was using a prop on a set, where he really could be led to believe that this was a safe space, where everybody knew what they were supposed to do.
Everybody knew that there was no live rounds allowed on set, or that this particular scene did not take the need of a live round. And when he picked up that gun, it would have been properly handled by the prop manager and properly supervised and properly ensured that it was put in a ready position for that scene.
And that ready position would not be a live round, would be a blank, or would be a dry fire, something of the sort.
If the circumstances were that six blanks were to be discharged, and he discharged five blanks successfully, but there was one live round sitting in the bottom of that chamber, we would not even be having this conversation.
You would not even think about bringing criminal charges against him, because it would be so reasonable for him to believe that that six one would have been a blank, if that five were blanks as well.
But imagine Alec practiced this scene over and over again, and every time he fired that gun was a blank.
It is completely reasonable, and it is not a deviation of the standard of care for him to believe that that bullet was a blank.
Damn, you got me. God damn, you're convincing.
So you're trying to put it on the armor or prop manager.
That's not your client. You can throw it on somebody else.
But what if you represented the armor? I think that would be hard.
I don't know how you defend that one.
Jesus didn't know. It would honestly just be the other side of that, that it was his responsibility.
That's what they were saying. That's what I was watching the trial. They were trying to basically pin it on the prop manager and Alec Baldwin.
Alec Baldwin doesn't know how to do gun safety right. Alec Baldwin never uses the right procedure when he's taking out guns and stuff.
So entertain me for a second. That's hypothetical.
Let's say that this gentleman didn't die by gunfire, and let's say he got run over by a car.
It was a woman.
Oh, I'm sorry. This lady.
This lady didn't die by a bullet and instead got run over by a car and ended up dying.
Would you blame the person who put the tires on the car? Would you blame the person behind the wheel?
Even if they had a driver's license or not?
Yeah, you blame the person behind the wheel. It's the person. That's the same thing I have with Alec Baldwin.
But a car is not a deadly weapon. A gun is a deadly weapon.
A car can be a deadly weapon.
It can be, but that's not its main purpose. That's not what it's designed for.
Anything capable of causing death or serious bodily injuries is a deadly weapon, regardless of its intent.
Like a hammer?
Stole the words right out of my mouth. Stole the words right out of my mouth.
A hammer, a simple tool of construction. Everybody has them laying around.
I'm sure if you go down to Mechanicville, Saratoga, there's going to be a hammer in every truck and every SUV.
But the second you pick that up with the intent to cause harm or that you do actually take a car's harm, that's a deadly weapon in your hand.
Even if it's to defend yourself, you're still defending yourself with a deadly weapon.
So a car is absolutely a deadly weapon.
And I know it's scary to think about that we let 16-year-olds get behind the wheels of these things and go 80 miles per hour down the thruway or down the interstate.
And a 2,000-pound fucking missile.
But again, that goes with the responsibility of the driver.
Right. But if it was like Toyota and they didn't put brakes in the car, then I could sue Toyota, right?
I think you'd find out you didn't have brakes in your car.
Wait a second!
Womp womp.
It's an unfortunate circumstance, regardless. Regardless of an unfortunate circumstance.
But I think if you let this go unprosecuted, you run a very dangerous precedent of just saying, whoopsie, I didn't know.
Somebody's got to go to prison.
I don't know if it's going to be prison, but he might get really fined for that.
It might be a period of probation, it might be gun safety classes, it might be some restitution to the person's family.
I don't know, maybe it's the guy who made the bullets fall.
I mean, we tried that already.
We tried suing Smith and Weston and we tried suing Glock already.
Oh, yeah.
We've been there.
Yeah, didn't they sue Ruger during the school shooting?
I think it was Sandy Hook.
And they won, I thought.
I'm not familiar with that case.
My understanding is I thought they did reach a disposition.
I don't think that they won in the sense of they won a jury trial, but I'm not familiar with that case.
Like they won a settlement type thing?
We've got to ask you about Alex Jones and his Sandy Hook comments.
Do you guys have a Jamie?
I'm Jamie.
He's a Jamie?
Jamie?
Can we look up that Ruger lawsuit, what happened?
It was either Ruger.
What was it?
It was one of the Sandy Hook family sues gun company.
Was it Remington?
It might have been Remington.
I know it was a gun company.
Sandy Hook family settled for $73 million with gun maker Remington.
Remington.
Remington, okay.
So a settlement is a very important tool in the civil end.
And honestly, plea deals are pretty important in the criminal end too.
But in the civil end, that is Remington saying, here's some money.
I don't want any part of this.
You guys are asking for this amount to prove like fault or liability instead of going through the litigation process and setting it in some sort of like judicial history.
Like precedent?
Like going through the appeals process, precedent that other people can use to sue them, they just said, here's some money, go away, please.
And it's pretty smart on their end, on their attorney's end, because like you don't open that up for the rest of the world to sue the gun company every time they have a loved one killed by a gun.
Every time, you know, an accidental discharge of a child to turn around and sue the gun company because that should have been trial proof.
Yeah, you can't sue the gun maker every time somebody dies from a gun.
That's what they're going to try.
They're going to try.
I don't know what the grounds.
You can't sue the car maker every time somebody dies in a car accident.
I agree.
But if that car is found to be deficient, what was that one Ford that had the gas tank in the trunk and kept exploding every time it got ruined?
Fiesta?
We were talking about how Toyota, like the brake was failing, but Dan said that didn't actually exist back in like 2010.
Remember that Toyota brake pedal incident?
Interesting.
I'm not familiar with that.
When Dan gets here, we'll let him speak to that one.
So do you think it was, do you think Alex Jones had the freedom of speech to make those comments about Sandy Hook?
Okay, so transitioning into the Alex Jones thing, could you refresh my memory of...
He was getting sued by the Sandy Hook families because they said he made derogatory comments or like defamation about his, their children being crisis actors and Sandy Hook not being real.
But then he later apologized for it and said he was wrong.
Before the lawsuit, he apologized.
Okay, gotcha.
I thought that that might be an important thing for that too.
Okay, so as with all rights in this great United States, they can be limited.
We like to use the term God-given rights, but those who give can take away.
So it's really not a God-given right if the government can take away.
It's a government-given right.
It might be under the shroud that all humans are entitled or like all Americans are entitled to this, that or whatever.
But we in some way, shape or form limit almost every right we have.
Even alcohol, which is a one of the only constitutionally protected vices.
Really?
By the way.
Yeah, it is.
I never knew that like no other vice is mentioned in the constitution.
Unless you're just addicted to something like letters to the post office or something.
Because they made an amendment, right?
That says alcohol is legal.
There were two amendments.
Yeah, the one banning alcohol and one reversing the ban on alcohol.
So the beer in your hand is a constitutionally protected right?
I don't have any beer by the way.
Not right now.
However, the government is still allowed to put limits on it.
When you can drink it, where you can drink it, how much you can drink.
Can you drink it in public?
Can you drink it in private?
Who can sell it?
Is it a manufacturer versus distributor?
Well, there's no limit on how much you can drink.
Just how much you can handle.
Right?
So the freedom of speech is the same way.
The government has an interest, has a legitimate interest in limiting what you can say, when you can say it, how you can say it.
You're allowed to be angry, but you are not allowed to shout at grandma walking down the street at the top of your lungs, getting in her face, spitting in her face as she's just trying to get back to the home.
That's harassment.
That might even be considered an assault if you get too close to her, if you touch her.
Yeah, but if I say a conspiracy theory like we do on this podcast, and even if I'm not serious about it, can somebody still sue me for defamation?
Say I'm saying like a 9-11.
Does that mean we can get sued by the 9-11 victim families for defamation?
I'm getting there.
Bear with me a second.
So my point with the limitation of rights is that it's not uncommon and it's actually very, very, very common to limit rights.
One of the limitations that we have on the freedom of speech is that you cannot allege or you cannot purport as fact things that you know to be untrue or things that you recklessly know to be untrue.
And if those statements of fact lead to the harm or detriment or there are some even like statutory damages where like the law says just because you did it, the plaintiff doesn't even necessarily have to allege that there were damage like sexual misconduct, for example, that that person will be entitled to damages because of the statements that you allege.
That you knew or you recklessly knew were false.
But Alex Jones did believe that Sandy Hook was a...
It doesn't matter what he believes, it matters what it is.
Wow.
Are we going to feed into any paranoid schizophrenic and say...
Well, what if Sandy Hook was a conspiracy?
Jesus Christ.
If it is proven.
You can't prove that of us.
He went much further than saying Sandy Hook was a conspiracy though, right? Because he accused that people's children were this, people's children were faking it, having false trauma responses or what have you.
And he faced, or I'm sorry, the families faced a lot of scrutiny and a lot of harassment from his followers and from members of the online community and the keyboard warriors for or because of the statements that he made.
And whether he was just trying to do it for views or whether he actually believed that.
He did believe it, yeah.
It doesn't matter. And he's not here to speak for what he believed or what he didn't believe.
So, you know, with that in mind, the fact is, is that they were false.
And they led to damages.
So I got a question about this.
How can I word this? If you are mentally deficient, like actively have Down syndrome or something like that.
Down syndrome does not necessarily mean mentally deficient. Go ahead.
But like if you're like, if you're like full on like mentally disabled type thing.
Okay. Like unable to handle your own business.
Yeah.
And you start spouting out weird conspiracies and stuff. Are you held to the same standard as a person?
Right?
Sure. So you're not necessarily absolved from responsibility, but there are different mechanisms in the law to handle that.
Now, if his defense was a paranoid delusion, that's a lot different than at the time.
I believe that now I'm sorry that that caused you damage and I recognize what I did was wrong.
Those are two very different circumstances.
But if you are found to to not understand the nature and consequences of your actions or if you're found not to be able to like participate in your own defense.
So what we would traditionally like most TV shows would call call like not guilty by like plea of insanity or not guilty by reasons of a mental defect.
There's something of the sort, whatever state or jurisdiction you live in or practicing at federal or state levels.
But that's not that's not what we're looking at here. He didn't he didn't allege a paranoid delusion.
He didn't allege that he was.
He did say he's kind of retarded on a podcast. I don't know if that counts.
But Alex Jones was right.
Alex Jones said this crazy shit before and he was right about some things like Bohemian Grove.
So what's to stop people from proving that he wasn't right about this to what he can prove he is right.
More than likely to reverse that judgment and he'll get that money.
And he lost over a billion.
Like they sued of him for everything that he had and he lost over a billion dollars.
He hasn't paid it yet.
I don't think but yeah he he he got he lost the case.
If he can prove that is right.
He can he can make a motion to reopen set aside the judgment and go back to court.
There's a mechanism for that. But until he can prove that he's right he's going to be responsible for that.
What if you're sued and like what if you're in a in a situation where you're sued for more money than you're even worth.
Like if I was sued for like five million dollars like I don't have five million dollars in assets or anything.
What would happen when I just go to jail for that or would I declare bankruptcy.
Yeah. So and.
Well this is kind of a fallacy.
We say in the United States we don't have debtors prison but you can go to jail for money.
But it's basically that there's some steps in between right because if the court orders you to pay or if the court orders you to dissolve an asset or or pay child support and you still don't do that then you can go to court or I'm sorry you can go to jail for disobeying that court order of not being able to pay.
So it's putting one step in between debtors prison.
But technically we don't have debtors prison in the United States.
But we do have is bankruptcy and the bankruptcy courts are available to basically absolve you from your financial liabilities except for student loans.
Student loans are not discharged from bankruptcy.
But I was all of you from some of your financial liabilities whether it be because of a judgment because of a lawsuit.
In turn they kind of like if you do have like an estate houses whatever like an administrator will be appointed to dissolve those and see to that that they're they're basically liquidated to pay some of those liabilities or if you just don't because you're just a regular person and you know you have a car and an apartment or whatever.
They basically just tank your credit score.
What if you like a homeless person you get sued for like a five million dollars and years ordered to pay five million dollars.
What are they going to do for them. They they they they don't have any assets to liquidate they don't have anything.
It's just like they're just a random homeless guy.
Sure. So there's this term called being judgment proof being judgment proof is pretty much the condition where no matter how much a judgment is against you the consequences doesn't change because you just cannot meet those liabilities.
Like homeless people are literally nothing to lose exactly nothing to lose homeless people are typically judgment proof because if you sue them one they probably won't appear in court.
There's nowhere to serve them.
You know it's just a nightmare to track down and sue a homeless person.
And in addition if even if you get a judgment whether by default or through litigation against them what are you going to take from them. You know if they already have nothing you really can't take from anything.
We don't have indentured servitude we don't have slavery. You know we can't force them to be a slave.
So you know.
So there's some people that like you just can't sue because it's just not going to do anything.
Yeah I mean you can you have the right to sue them.
It's just not going to do anything.
And remember now unless you're suing them yourself you're also going to spend quite a bit of money on my court fees attorneys fees and you know taking the time out of your day to travel go to court and draft documents between yourself.
So it might just be to make a point that you want to sue this person but it's not going to really happen.
Yeah how much is that point going to cost you.
How far are you willing to go.
Would you would you think of the show Better Call Saul.
Actually I don't want to I want to touch on that for a second.
How far are you willing to go. That's a conversation I have with my clients fairly often.
How far are you willing to go to prove a point or to to basically to make a statement.
And if you spend twenty thousand dollars in legal fees and otherwise discovery costs witness fees to win a case that's worth five thousand.
You might as well just not.
Yeah it only makes sense.
So that is an actual like balancing test that we perform every day on how far we do want to take litigation.
Better Call Saul I watched one episode I got bored and I left.
Probably because like you like work.
It's like you're at work right.
Same reason I don't watch medical shows.
Yeah yeah I can't watch medical shows.
Exactly and I respect the actors I respect the production.
I hear it's very good.
I hear a lot of people enjoy it.
It started off really slow.
I'm not hating on the show by any means but it just wasn't for me.
So there any TV shows that you watched that do legal work very well.
Like it's portrayed very well or most of them just astronomically like not anywhere close.
So Law and Order is actually fairly accurate most of the time and I don't know if that's just because I'm biased because it's set in New York.
But I have found that over the years watching Law and Order they typically do do a lot of research and a lot of accuracy is they portray a lot of accuracy is in the legal process.
The one thing I would say is that they kind of downplay how much time every individual step takes.
But that's also because they only have 30 minutes for an episode or something.
Yeah.
So you know a lot of the times especially in New York criminal law like these things are happening like 30 days apart or two weeks apart.
And like you might show up to court go like hey hey judge you know we're still in conference we need 30 more days.
So even like a misdemeanor charge.
Yeah.
What's up.
Are you kidding me.
What's going on dude.
How you doing.
Not too bad.
Don't let me interrupt.
Welcome Dan to the podcast.
Is Jeff coming.
No he's not coming actually he's got the FDA coming to his facility tomorrow so he's got to get.
Oh shit.
That's worse than the CIA.
Who's Jeff.
That's my buddy who's here on another episode friend of the podcast fan.
He's listening to all the all the episodes.
I don't I don't mean to interrupt.
I love the blanket.
It's a heated blanket.
Did you bring it.
It was four degrees in here.
Yeah.
So it's not just me.
I don't get cold.
The furnace is off.
Oh OK.
It has to be because it's too loud over the podcast.
Oh right right.
Yeah.
I think I'm just shivering sometimes.
Sorry I didn't mean to cut you off it sounded like you were talking about something really interesting.
No you're good.
Yeah I think I might sit over here though just so I can.
Oh shit.
Without my neck turned.
Tyler tell us about Dan Schneider and Drakeville.
Yeah so he watched the documentary Quiet On Set.
It's on HBO Max if anybody wants to watch it.
It was staggering the the amount of shit that happened at Nickelodeon back in the 90s like staggering.
Yeah.
Was that bad.
I was like we've seen some some bad things in our line of work you know and like I was still shocked by some of the things that I heard that they did to these kids back then.
Damn.
Like I was like we watched it like we had a pretty light day on Tuesday so we all sat down and like watched it and all four of us like all four of us were ex ex ex green ambulance people.
And and we all were like Jesus Christ like Cruz to Cruz was like Jesus Christ and I'm like this guy was saying Jesus.
This is bad.
Like the first like two episodes it kind of like went over all that like you know the show back like all that when it was going on and they kind of show all that the show all that.
Yeah.
It's a good show.
Yeah.
It kind of like was talking about like the background of like all that.
Like it was like there was a lot of weird shit going on behind the scenes like the production like the producers and stuff would like ask for like back massages while they were in like round tables and stuff which is weird but it gets so much worse than that.
Like it just starts off with stuff like that.
And they were they were prejudiced against the the black cast members of the show like they they they limited the amount of sketches that they were in.
They limited the amount of like like kind of line reads that they got and then like they would actively make them do more like racially insensitive things towards their own group of people.
They fired them after like two seasons like if you actually watch the show and like you like I watched like the documentary that I went back and I kind of looked at the cast.
By and large, the most people who got like one season or less like they got they got it was all people of color.
Every single one of them.
They got like two seasons.
Wasn't the guy from Keenan and Kel.
Yeah.
But if you actually look at it he was only on it for three seasons.
Oh really.
Yeah.
So like it was like like there was like racism behind the scenes and then they there's only two female writers at the point at the point that they that they did that.
And the two female writers were kept on getting sexually harassed by the producers of the show and basically getting all their all their their skits and stuff shot down because like women like they literally said and like they had like a quote of it like in like the roundtable like quoting things.
Like they like there are three people that said women aren't funny we're not putting your sketch in here. Then they're like and they're like what they're like yeah women aren't funny we're not using your sketch get out of here.
Yeah.
But then they started showing these court cases from this guy.
Do you remember pickle boy on all that the guy who like carried around like the the the pile of pickles on a plate.
Well, there's a guy who carried around a pile of pickles he was also a I think a I think he was an acting coach or something whatever the fuck you call it.
And there was like allegations against him and these these court records were sealed until this documentary came out and the the victim of it asks for them to be unsealed with lawyers and stuff and to like show on like the the thing like show on the documentary like the actual charges and stuff.
And
it ended up being Drake Bell, who was
for anybody who's listening. I normally don't do this but this is like an actual content warning because this is pretty fucked up.
So
damn content.
Yeah.
Like I think normally I normally don't do this but I have a I Tyler do a content warning content warning.
But pause right here.
But yeah, but yeah, but the AI of content warning trigger warning trigger warning for like for sexual content disclaimer content may disturbing to some viewers do not listen if easily.
Trigger the views expressed in this show do not necessarily represent the views of untitled podcast.
You one minutes. Yeah. And, but he was sodomized. He was raped in multiple ways. He was forced to do pornographic material. He was tied up, beaten and raped for three years straight.
How old was he 16. He's 15. By who the producers by the producers they go to jail.
He went to jail for 16 months for doing that.
And like, like he went like, like Drake Bell goes way farther into detail with it than I ever like could because like it happened to him.
And like the the amount of detail that he went into and like what he like was talking about like I was like, Holy shit, like that was fucking rough.
Right.
Type shit. And then like they kept on they interviewed his dad too. And his dad was like, they're like, I am because they, the producer Drake Bell's dad was his manager for the longest time like Drake's manager.
And then the producer kept on getting into Drake's head to get his dad out of the picture, so then he could just take advantage of them.
And then like his dad was like they interviewed him and his dad was like, I, I just tried my best for my son and they just they took him away from me and they did all this stuff.
And he's like, and I'll never forgive myself for that. And like he started like crying. I'm like, this is fucking rough documentary, man.
And then like, then after like the Drake Bell stuff, then they went on to like the Dan Schneider incidents and the Dan Schneider incidents.
Like, you know, on a TV show how you're supposed to put like, you know, like the worst like thing at the end type thing, they kind of did like the worst shit in the middle.
And in the last episode, like there's like Dan Schneider, like rubbed my shoulders weird or he would do like he would do cum shot jokes and stuff.
I'm like, I'm like, you can't go from brutally being raped to I felt uncomfortable because I got my shoulders rubbed and expect the same emotional like.
So who was doing the sodomizing to Drake Bell?
This guy called Brian Peck. He was an acting coach for all that. And he got 16 months in prison.
And then once he got out, he got hired on Disney Channel to do producing for that.
And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? He called around to all his contacts.
He's like, hey, guys, I'm really I need some work. I haven't made any money in 18 months.
Yeah. And I'm like, dude, it was like I'm like 16 months for all that.
Yeah. No pun intended.
But like 16 months for all of that shit. It's fucking like I don't understand the the the fucking levels of shit because like you you murder somebody, you get 15, like 20 years.
You like child rape only got you 16 months.
And like it was just like one of those things like where I was going to ask you about that like type thing.
Like how can something like child rape only get you 16 months but like manslaughter can get you like up to like what is manslaughter like like?
Can you get life for manslaughter?
It's like 10 years.
OK, so that's unfortunate.
First of all, I got this.
That's an understatement.
So now that that's out of the way.
So I imagine that this never went to trial.
They did. They had like court documents and stuff, but he didn't.
That that's the thing that he played no contest. So I don't know if that means I don't know exactly what that means.
OK, so it sounds like that that was part of some sort of like prearranged plea agreement and that's a jury was not the one or a judge was not the one who recommended that sentence is what I assume what happened.
I'm not familiar with the exact case. And if it was under seal, I'm sure it's just kind of coming out.
Yeah, but I assume something like that sounds like it was part of a plea agreement.
So explain to me like I'm an idiot what a plea agreement is.
Explain to them like you normally would.
All right. So the agreement is basically the settlement version of criminal law where your defense attorney and the prosecution, they sit down on the table or they get some sort of email chain, whatever it is, and they go, what is going to what what is the offer to not litigate this matter.
And it's usually some sort of either lesser included included charge, something with like no points on your license in New York, if it's like a speeding ticket or less points on your license.
But basically, what is it going to cost for you to not assert your right to go to trial.
And in the case of I forget one of the school shooters as part of his plea agreement, they took the death penalty off the table and instead gave him life in prison if he pled guilty to the to the to the murders.
So basically at any level of the criminal proceeding.
There can be a plea agreement entered into.
It sounds like this is California, I assume.
California, California. Yeah, so it sounds like the prosecutors in California did just that.
But it might sound harsh or improper at its face.
But remember that the prosecution represents like the people.
So like, like every, every citizen, every visitor of the state, the prosecutor also represents the victims.
And think about how damaging and harsh and traumatizing it would have been to put him in front of a jury to tell those stories, especially at his age.
I don't know when he when the outcry was and when he was 16 years old when this 1716 somewhere around there when the trials are when the trial proceedings.
So to put a 16, 17 year old, especially for the time male on the stage, they also he also wanted to remain anonymous to throughout the whole thing.
So I think that might have something to do with it, too.
Yeah. And it's kind of so the words run out of my mouth again, because if you are an actor in Hollywood, do you want the label as whistleblower?
Do you want the label as like the one who cried rape, whether it happened or not? Unfortunately, you're really going to suffer consequences in your career back then for doing so.
So excuse me. Yeah. Nickelodeon was a ship back then.
It was like you don't want to give up that gig. Yeah.
You know, because he was still on Drake and Josh when this trial was going on. Right. Nuts. Right.
So if he got to keep his position there and he didn't have to go through the public scandal and facing the paparazzi and having his picture blasted all over, that could be some of the reasons why the prosecution was thinking, let's give this guy a favor.
A plea deal. He'll still be punished. You know, he'll still spend a year and some jail. But he's also protecting the pride, protecting the reputation, the image of the victims.
So is there a difference between no contest and like pleading guilty?
Yeah. So no contest is basically saying, I'm not going to challenge your assertion that you think I did it.
Pleading guilty is yes, I did what you say. I did what you say I did. No contest is I'm not going to challenge what you say I did. And not guilty is no, I did not do what you say I did.
So what would be like a thing where you'd want to plead no contest rather than guilty?
Sex offense. Sex offense. So that's probably why he pled no contest rather than guilty.
Note taken.
Sex offense and DWIs too, because they are subsequent consequences like ending up on a registry.
He did have to register as a sex offender though. As part of the agreement? As part of the agreement.
Okay, all right. So it's basically like there's no admission of guilt on the record when you plead no contest.
Okay. If that makes sense.
Interesting. Because I never like...
Wait, he was on the registry and Disney hired him anyway?
Yeah. That like, because before 2000, I think, 11, Disney Channel did not have a discrimination or whatever the fuck, I don't know what the word for it, a policy against not hiring sex offenders.
Interesting.
Which is fucking another insane thing.
That's like...
That's something a lot of children have worked on.
Yeah.
So that's what my suspicion, I'm not familiar with the case, but that's my suspicions of what happened. Does that make sense?
Yeah. Because I watched that and I was like 16 months for that. It's almost like a slap in the face kind of thing being like, you fucking brutally abused a child for three years and you only got 16 months.
You got less time in jail than you did the crime to this child.
If I can parallel back to our law and order conversation, think about how many rape victims don't outcry whatsoever, because of fear of having to be interviewed, of having to make a statement, of having to go in front of a grand jury, or having to go in front of a regular jury or a judge to tell their story.
And that may be children, that may be teenagers, and that may be grown adults who just don't want to deal with the process that comes with disclosing that sort of thing, because it is traumatic.
It's traumatic and it's forever entered in the public record, right? You can't make an anonymous accusation against someone, again, back to our constitutional rights, you have a right to confront your accuser.
So, doing something like that does give an alternate means of presenting punishment and making sure that person is held somewhat accountable without having to completely traumatize.
And the mechanism, or the fact that that mechanism exists, kind of gives a voice for subsequent rape victims to basically come forward semi-anonymously without having to go completely public and keep it with the prosecution, keep it with the investigators, and not have to end up on tabloids and such.
Yeah, because that's the whole thing. I understand we have the rights to be able to see your accuser type thing, but for certain crimes, specifically child abuse and stuff, you don't want to even look at that person ever again type shit.
But you're forced to in order to actually get justice for what happened to you type thing. It's a double-edged sword type thing.
Right. And if you choose to go to trial, you might have to have a choice. Yeah, it's just one of those. It's just a fucked up. It's a fucked up thing, man. Like there's there's a and like it's just like those are like I watched those shows when I was a kid to like nothing was like a matter with them.
I like those like my I watched them every fucking day type shit and then you're like all this shit was going on behind the scenes. All that shit, all that you also can't blame yourself for that too. No, you were what twelve years old. How were you supposed to know? I was less than
fearful that he somehow participated. I feel like you're almost feeling guilty for watching these shows. All you did was turn on the TV. I was like six earlier that that like we created the environment that is Hollywood.
And we've known about it ever since like the Western films are popular. Yeah. And we kind of allow it to happen by not holding these people and these bad actors accountable, whether they're like so well connected that they just continuously avoid responsibility for the things that they do.
Again, back to Alec Baldwin. If you keep excusing things and keep sweeping things under the rug, then that tells other people that they can act without consequence. And that puts our future actors that puts our current child actors at risk.
Really? What was your take on Alec Baldwin? Oh, we could cover that a little earlier. I don't want to recover. No, he watched. He watches every single podcast. He had both takes on him because we made him.
I had him on my side of the it's Alec Baldwin's fault for not checking the gun. And then he had him. He's like, All right, so let's say you had to defend Alec Baldwin. And then I'm like, I don't know why he's I'm like, man, he's actually really convincing. I like you literally just agree with me. But you but you the way you argued for it. My God damn you convinced.
So my genuine opinion, though, is that he should be held responsible in some really, I'm not saying necessarily it's jail time. But I do think that he acted poorly. He made a poor decision, a reckless decision that cost somebody their life. Billion dollar lawsuit. Wow.
I mean, how much is he worth, though? Like Alec Baldwin's got to be all decent. I probably 30 million dollars 40 million dollars or something. But I I don't need personally. I don't I don't think he has any responsibility because he's on a set of a movie. It would be like if you thought you had a fake car.
And then all of a sudden you found out the car was real and you ran somebody over and killed that guy. I thought this car. You'll love it. You'll love the beginning. All right.
So to briefly recap, I was basically saying that if you know that you're handling a real gun, regardless of the circumstances, it doesn't even matter if you're in a police academy on a on a firearm range, like whatever the circumstances is, if that gun in your hand is real, you should be treating it as a real gun as a standard of care.
It doesn't matter if you're a license, if you're trained. So if you're not trained by with on a gun, by the way, you probably shouldn't even be handling a gun. But it doesn't matter if it's a prop. If that's a real gun, you should be handling it as if it were a real gun.
Right. And see, that's why your take is different than mine, because there's a separation of IQs here.
And I don't think of stuff like that.
So the other option is that he could have said, Hey, guys, I know we can do edits and we can do CGI, take the firing pin out of this gun and render it in the operable, so I can comfortably shoot it towards another human.
Right. And even then, every time he picks up that gun, he really needs to be clearing that chamber. Every time he picks it up every time he he takes his eyes off of it every time he picks it up every time he points it at somebody, he should be making sure that's being done safely, because it is a gun.
Right. And the example I brought up with the car thing was, if it wasn't a gun, and if it was a bullet, I'm sorry, if it wasn't a bullet and if it was a car that had killed this individual, you would never go after the person who put fuel in the car or put the tires on the car.
Or, you know, like was responsible for that car being there. The only person held responsible for that death is the operator of that car, right, whether he had a driver's license or not.
Right. Because if an unlicensed operator comes down the street and kills grandma, he still goes down, whether he was licensed or not.
Sure.
It is the same thing with the gun. A gun is just as much of a deadly weapon as a car is.
At a bare minimum, it's negligence. Right.
At a bare minimum, I'd be comfortable calling it negligence. At a maximum, I call it reckless. And I don't think it was purposeful whatsoever. I didn't don't think he had any intention to harm that individual. But in criminal law, we are punished for things that we don't mean to do.
Yeah, that that is a really good point about the about it being a real gun. Like I didn't even really think of that. Like, yeah, it's a real gun. That's probably going to change the laws or what? What even are the laws on having a real gun on site?
I actually don't you have to abide by the actual.
So I looked into that and you're supposed to have an armed armor armor armor armor armor. That's a real word, I guess. Armorer on set that checks all your guns and stuff. But also each actor, as I was saying earlier, has has a responsibility to check to see if there's a round in the chamber, whether it be blank or a real round.
Also, in in I think where they were filming, which was Nevada, I believe, and I think in every state, if you are filming a movie, you are not allowed to have or you're not supposed to have live ammo anywhere on set as part of like the safety precautions.
But some idiot brought on live ammo and just started, you know, putting it in in the gun.
And I want to point out the difference, too, between like safe practices and like actual law. And I think this is something that will probably change what's considered safe practice on movie sets as just kind of like the standard of what we do now.
And, you know, we were all former EMS people, you know, lifting technique is not written into law. Right. Yes, no, that 300 pound Betsy needs to go to the stair chair. We're not carrying her like we're not slinging her over our backs.
Some people know that.
So, like it might not be law we might not be breaking the law but if we get hurt trying to pick up somebody and properly, then we definitely like deviated from like what that industry standard is.
I think the Alec Baldwin case will do just that it will change what the industry standard of safety is regarding life ammunition. I don't necessarily think it'll trigger any like legislative body to take any additional acts against like gun safety or guns, guns safety on the movie set, unless they already have.
Yeah. But I put it this way. Dan, have you ever been to a firing range for like a gun. I know. No, just shot him at like friends houses. Okay, so I've been to like official gun ranges and stuff.
I'll just use the last one I went to I went down to Florida. For my grandfather's funeral I went to a gun range because they actually let you shoot assault rifles at their arconolences.
But I went down and it was the funny thing is because he the funeral is on my birthday.
So like hey, listen, and not the funeral was the day after my birthday so they're like, hey, we know you don't want to be in Florida for your 25th birthday for your grandfather's funeral.
It's like, we know you like you know firing guns and stuff so they're like, why don't we go to the gun range down here there was like one that was like 20 minutes away that could let you shoot assault rifles so I'm like, all right I'll do that.
But like when I was there, because I've done like gun safety courses and stuff. When you go to the to the range, they they they don't let you carry your gun into the into the thing they carry it to your to your shooting range, like your lane, and they lay out the
firearms that you have, you have to load them yourself, and you have to you have to rack them yourself but after you after you're done firing and you're like okay it's out of bullets type thing. First thing you do is drop the magazine, you put the magazine down, you take the slide and make sure that
there's nothing in it. After you after you rack it a few times, you look at it and you don't point it at the at any at this direction this direction, or backwards, you look down the barrel.
You have to you have to keep it kind of like this and like look at the, at the chamber to make sure that there's nothing in it. After that, when you put the gun down, you don't put it facing this way, you don't put it facing this way, or facing this way.
You keep every single gun that you have facing down range at all times, even if you checked it 10,000 times, you still point it down the range, you don't point it down you don't point it up you do this.
Then, with the rifles you do the same thing after you're done shooting it after you done after you've done that you drop the magazine, you put it down.
You clear the chamber.
You check in the chamber.
You clear it two more times is what they tell you, just to make sure you check it one last time, then you put it down, facing down range, never facing this way or this way.
And then you make sure that you don't put the magazine back in it because even if you were staring at it.
You put the magazine in, you could have had a slip of your brain and put it in a live magazine into it. So it's just every single time you leave it unloaded in the in the cocked back position, where it can't like not the cock back the safe position where you can where you load things in every single time.
And like, that's just standard practice for for almost all gun ranges so that's, that's why I have such a, I guess, stance on Alec Baldwin that like, if you handle a gun, that's how you're supposed to handle it.
You're not supposed to like, even if it's a blank gun, a blank gun can still kill somebody from basically from me to you away if I shot you with a blank gun I could kill you.
Really.
It's not a, it's not a dummy round, it still has an explosion that comes out of it. At the at the least you'll get pretty severe burns if I shoot you from me to you with that.
So, people always tend to think like oh it's a blank round it can't hurt anybody, even if it was a blank round it can still kill somebody.
Specifically like you see like, there's a couple actors that are like, oh it's a blank and they killed themselves because they thought that blank rounds can't kill you.
Yes.
So, even if it's a blank round, it's still a live round. So that's like a whole like thing like it's like the gun safety in my brain is like, Alec Baldwin was grossly negligent with that.
I am, I watched the video from the set.
And they were pretty aware that they shouldn't be pointing the gun at anybody, because as they were doing it, they're like, they're like remember don't don't like point away when you're shooting it, point away when you're shooting it.
You have people over here like don't don't point it over there, like just listen to like go back and watch that video. It's like they know that it's dangerous, even though they're blanks.
Yeah. Right. Because the whole time they're talking about not not pointing it at anybody.
So, the fact that he pointed at somebody after they basically admitted that they knew that that was dangerous.
And then it just happened to be a live round. Like, I don't know man, couple things like you changed my mind on it now. Like now I said, I switched teams. I was team Alec and now I'm like, I don't know.
It's fire.
It's pretty negligent to me. And I didn't even know about the video you just mentioned that I haven't seen before but if it is the case that he was warned before he did it too that makes it even worse.
They're like, they were like somebody on set like as they're doing it they're like actively talking about it or it might have been when they were planning it out. They're actively talking about not pointing it at people, you know.
Which is just standard gun safety. Right. Don't point a weapon at anything you're not willing to destroy type thing.
Right. But has anybody seen is it cake? Cake? Is it cake? No. Is it cake? Yeah.
Yeah. Are you seeing the videos? Yeah. Oh, the things where it's like, is this a can of dip or is it actually cake and then they do like a knife to it? Yeah, I've seen those before.
Okay. So if we can make cake look like anything, why were we using a real gun on set?
Right. Because it looks more realistic.
That's actually funny Casey. That is a good point.
But yeah, like I think speaking of is it cake though some of those things are wild like I saw like a thing that looked like a full on refrigerator. And I'm like, ah, and I have like the thing where they're like, but you know we've reached just like the peak of our society when this is like where we've gotten for entertainment.
Is it cake? No, this podcast is a prime example. Yeah. Just the it shows just the degeneration. Speaking of that, Mr. Lundy, have you ever tried smelling salts? No, I have not. Would you like to? What is that? Ammonium nitrate? It's just ammonia. Yeah.
I think it might be ammonia nitrate. I think it is right. Basically, it's a it's a it's a rite of passage coming on the podcast. I use those every time. I don't know. I use them more when I get by.
I'm doing like, I'm not doing that. I do this all the time and I'm fine, dude. But I honestly feel like I have gotten dumber since I started doing this. I don't mean to be morbid about this, but you're starting to sound like our dearly departed there.
Dearly departed? Who's that? Hmm. I missed something. Is there a way to mute this for a second? I can pause it. We're gonna have a sidebar. Hold on. All right, sidebar. Court is back in session.
So where does it say the ingredients on this? Because now he's got me wondering. Toss it to me. I'll find them. All right, hold on. I can read too. I can read. So while you're doing that, Dan, what's Dan been up to this week? You've been doing any flight sim? You've been doing any? You know, I wanted to play a flight simulator this week and I got it all set back up in my cockpit. I just. Did you check the cock loft? What's that? Did you check the cock loft? What? It's the cock loft. I'm not sure.
Cock loft is like the attic. It's the attic. When firefighters are doing stuff, Freddy. Freddy used to constantly say it. You're like, chocolate. Cock lofts checked. No fire. He's just like saying that. I think everybody likes it. So he did. He retired. Okay, maybe I can't read. It's sodium carbonate. Penta.
Hemma hydrate sodium carbonate, ammonium chloride, sodium polyacrylate, acrylic, cotton and red 40 cotton cotton red 40. Well, that's when you first. Yeah, no, that's not going anywhere near me. That's not going anywhere. I eat enough organic food that it makes up for it.
It makes up for it. What do you experience? All right, I know exactly how to describe it. Give me that shit. It feels like when somebody comes up to you in a swimming pool and you're not expecting it and they dunk you under the water and the chlorine goes up your nostrils. Yes. Yep. That's exactly what it feels like. That's how I first described it when I first saw it. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. I am so confused. Let me get another round. It was worse now. I shook it. Oh, I shouldn't have shook it. Are you sure you don't want to try it?
I am a thousand percent. Now, what do you smile? It's not a requirement. My brother did it and he was like, what the hell? We also asked all our guests. Do you believe in ghosts? And do you have any ghost stories? I do not have any ghost stories. Oh, man. You know what I'm noticing? Well, no, it's not true. Okay. Never mind. However, I don't have enough information to come to the conclusion that ghosts do not exist.
Oh, you want to come to the conjuring house with us? The what? The conjuring house. You know the movie The Conjuring? Oh, okay. We're going to the house where that happened. To ghost hunt. For those of our listeners who cannot see, I am of a darker complexion. Will not be participating.
As he will die first. I've seen enough movies. Yeah, that's probably a good idea. I'm not going because I'm not trying to bring anything home. I am like, I am the white guy in the movie. That's like, what's that noise? Let's go check it out. I'm just going with them and probably Alex. Yeah, Dan, you're coming. Tyler's like, yeah, my dad says that we have like generational bad
luck from him messing around with like Ouija boards and shit. And then he's like, I'm going to the conjuring. Dude, I'm good. I'm good on that. I'll go. I don't fuck. I'm already cursed. Doesn't matter. All right. Want to take a break? Yeah. We'll be right back on the untitled podcast.
All right. Welcome back to Untitled Podcasts, episode 67. We got me, Tyler. We got Casey. We got Dan. And we got, how you doing guys? Welcome back. Welcome back. That smelling salts got me high, Tyler. Smelling salts in a single cigarette. I'm good to go. I'll take on God.
I had a question for you, Dan. Shoot. So remember what we were talking about how Texas is now semi banned porn? Yeah. Oh my God. I think that's a good thing. Me too. I agree. I agree. I think there should be some barriers to entry. Yeah. You know, because like, I don't want to put in my license. Yeah. You have to put in your license to watch porn in Texas.
Now I'll gladly put in my license. I don't care. What are you afraid to have your porn records? Are you kidding me? They already have them. They probably would make some suggestions. They probably already know what I like more than I know what I like.
Well, you liked a big hentai meals part two. How about big hentai meals part three? Yeah. No, I think it's a great idea because it's just like, dude, like it's just a continuation of what we were talking about last week. I still have dreams about the first pornographic magazine I've ever seen. I ever saw. I still dream about it till this day. That's how powerful of a stimulus it was.
So for kids to just hop on a phone and have access to all this crazy shit, it's like, no, dude, there has to be that is like damaging to your brain. Which was the first portal magnet that you looked at? It was, it wasn't really. So it wasn't, it was like a, like muscle magazine, but it was like a swimsuit edition.
And it was basically like hard, soft core porn. It was like, yeah, it was like soft core. It was like as hard as soft core porn can get before it becomes like the red hot chili pepper song. Yeah.
Yeah. Like the first one that I had, because my dad got Game Informer magazine, but when he got Game Informer magazine, it was a double subscription with Max of magazine, which isn't really a porn magazine, but it's kind of close.
And like my dad would like hide them in his, his, his bathroom upstairs. So I went and see him. And then like the toilet broke downstairs or some shit. And like, I fucking like, you know, this was before we had phones to like, you know, watch it.
I opened up, I'm like, whoa, yeah. What the fuck is this shit? It's like, yeah, this is sick. And I was like, that was like the first like porno mag that I had like thing. And then I went back a couple months and I just took one.
I just put it under my bed. This was mine. Now. Yeah. And I'm like, but like, I was very upset because like when they would come in, like I would wait for the next month to come and I just go in and steal the last month.
Right. And I just progressively just do that. It's like, you won't miss this. Yeah. And then I'm like, great. And then like they never said anything about it. So I was like, never caught on. Never caught on.
And they just started tossing the magazine. So I think he caught on, but he started tossing them when they got came in. Cause like he really wasn't into it, but he like got the game informer and that was like the, the, the just a bonus magazine on it.
He's like, whatever.
But like, it wasn't even like it, like Maxim is like the softest of softcore porn mags. Like it's not like, it's not like playboy or hustler or anything. It's fucking, you know, just the basic like hot girl in the bikini. But you know, for a 11, 12, 13 year old, that was enough.
Right. Like this one that I'm talking about. I remember specifically it was like Trish Stratus and she had what you would call a bathing suit. It was really like, like a string and it was like wedged up her ass.
It was just like, like her, like on the beach, just like, I just, I'll never forget it. It was amazing. I bet I could find that magazine, but your parents are catching jerking off. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. There's some, yeah. There's some bad, yeah, there's some bad ones.
I only got caught jerking off once. I thought last episode was the porn episode.
It always comes back to that. No, the one was the fucking weirdest that I got caught jerking off. I was sitting there, you know, watching something. I think it was, you know, whatever. And then like my dad never knocked when I was making you uncomfortable at all.
No, you're good. You're good. Yeah. I was sitting there and like my dad never knocked when I lived with him. Just never, he would just open the doors. Just, but my dad being paralyzed, you could hear him kind of coming.
Like the way that like he had to like hobble and like kind of grab onto the walls and stuff. So you'd hear like a hand on the wall and then like a slide, but had my headphones in. So I couldn't hear the walk coming. And I was like, fuck. So I'm like laying there and you know, going to town.
And then I see click open and I hear, whoa, huh? Yep. Okay. Yep. So, yep. That's natural. Anyways. Yeah. Cool. See you later. And walk. So I'm like, you made that so much worse.
You could have just went, oh, and then shut it, but going, yep. Okay. Yep. That's natural. Don't. Okay. Carry on. Fucking walk. My dad is fucking crippling social anxiety too. So like, you know, I mean, that'll give anybody social anxiety, but like, like him already being socially awkward.
And then having to do is like, ah, yeah. Okay. Ah, you want anything from Stuart's?
Change the subject.
And I went downstairs and he, and I go, are you going to talk about that? He goes, nope.
Damn. Yeah. That was, that was probably the weirdest one.
I'll tell you, he's got a good, he's got important things that he's got. No, no, put it back.
But I want to hear his legal advice.
Yeah. Ah, man. A pretty weird one for me. I didn't get caught full on, but I got caught sitting down on my bed, like starting to. And so these catalogs used to come in the mail, right? I was like Victoria secrets catalogs or 13, dude.
And well, it wasn't that, but it was like girls in their bras, right? And I'm like, Oh, I'm like, don't mind if I do. And I put it in my pocket, right? Went to my bedroom, sat down on my bed, but I started out and do my belt.
It's a fucking Lane Bryant catalog, dude.
You know what that is?
No, it's like plus size.
I do when you're 12 or 13, you're just like, well, you know, any port and storm.
You got nothing like that's better, better than nothing. So I started to sit down and my mom, so like came over to my room and I used to have this like this like TV stand with doors on it.
So my regular door to my room was open, but the TV stand was open, like blocking that door halfway and she swings it open on like, I threw it to the side and she knew exactly what was up.
And I was like, Oh God, that's embarrassing. You'd Lane Bryant of all things, you know, you ever get like the one where they walk it.
They didn't catch you, but you're naked underneath the covers like fucking thing.
Like I'm just sitting there and like they're talking to me and I'm like, Yep.
Right. Like you were just doing it and they're like, yeah, but like I'm like, I have like a hoodie on, but like no pants or underwear underneath it.
And they're like, Yeah, can you help me do this? I'm like, Yeah, I'll be down in a second.
They're like, No, I need help right now. And I'm like, I'll be down in a second.
They're like, No, you need to come right now. I'm like, I'll be down in a second. Yeah.
It's like trying to send the message home. Yeah.
Oh my God. Casey got Casey jerked off in a library.
Yeah. Let's not talk about that.
Speaking of, say what's the statute of limitations on that? Yeah.
Didn't you, you weren't the kid who got arrested.
I didn't get arrested. No.
Cause my senior year, I was somebody did that and there was a manhunt for him.
There was a boy hunt. The girl took the video and outed his business and UPD ended up finding him.
I vaguely remember that. It was a whole thing. What's your story? Go ahead. No, no, no.
I'm not telling you any stories. You can listen to that episode.
Casey was sent to the attic of this library that he worked at.
He was, no. So, okay. He was at the time, he was a minor.
So he was like 15 or 16. Yeah.
This wasn't like last year.
This was a while ago. So something. All right. So long story short, he got bored.
It's a quiet library. He was up in the attic, shuffling through magazines.
And he just decided that he had to relieve himself.
Fucking people magazine.
Let's take a look at that for a second.
Was there anybody present? No. And it wasn't an attic.
It was a fucking balcony. What? A balcony.
It wasn't enclosed. Was it enclosed?
In a room, yeah. There was nobody in the room.
Did the public have access to that room? Staff room.
Staff only? What, you were the only person on shift?
No, I was the only person in the room.
I'm trying to decide if you actually even did anything wrong.
See, this is good. Cause Casey has been carrying this on his conscience.
Not until you brought it up.
Interesting. All right. What's the, you said you had some questions.
About that situation? No, about in general.
Oh, I just want to know the statute limitations on if there was anything done.
But since there was nothing wrong, there's no, it's a victimless crime.
I mean, I think that the determination there is like, whether that was truly like public or not.
Right. I don't think it was. I think you can make a really good argument that that wasn't public.
Was the room locked? No.
I think the door was open.
You are why we don't put defendants in the room.
I think the door was open actually.
I thought there was like a five year old that came in and just went, oh, it ran away.
All right, go ahead, dad. I don't think I had a.
I got a question. Who are you, will you be supporting in this year's presidential election?
Oh boy. There's no wrong answers here.
Can I get a poll first? A poll? Yes. What do you mean?
Who's red? Who's blue? I am affiliated.
I'm going to vote for Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Yeah, I'm in the middle, man. If it comes down to Trump or Biden, I'm not.
I'm not going to vote for fucking KFC or RFK.
Not going to vote. You're not going to vote for RFK. Maybe I will.
We'll see. I feel like if you don't vote in an election, you don't have a right to.
No, I don't think that's true. I feel like I think it's just it's gotten to that too.
I feel like it's gotten to the point where it's just it's like a distraction.
Like, I don't even think that the federal government should be so important that we put as much emphasis on it as we do.
I think it's just like we shouldn't be celebrities. These people, it's like they have a job to do.
And we didn't like, you know, hear things about the president every fucking day. Right.
But that's just because it's like everybody's like some people that I feel shouldn't be informed.
Social media are informed now because of social media. Exactly.
Yeah. So like one in 10 people.
Go ahead. So one in 10. We talk about this occasionally on this podcast.
One in 10 people have such a low IQ that they can't do any task without being counterproductive.
Actually, so now these people are getting informed by social media and they really have no business like having an opinion on anything.
So what do you think about that statistic?
Like I said, social media is a dangerous place. It is.
But the one in 10. What do you what do you think about that?
I can't verify it. They're taking it on its face. That makes sense.
Based on the people you've represented.
What would you think of that?
Based off the people I generally interact with in any and all capacities, I wouldn't be surprised if that statistic exists.
That's just a statistic that he made up.
No, no, that's from a psychologist. No. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Find that for me.
I will. Dude, I will find the video. Send it to the group chat. I will. Absolutely. I'll find it.
All right. So social media and politics. Social media kind of came in at a weird time where we were very polarized because of other things that the country was going through.
I don't know if it was because of COVID necessarily. I think we were heading in that direction anyway.
But social media is a spot where people who traditionally never had a voice or only had a local community based voice all of a sudden were able to access the masses.
Unverified, unchecked, un-peer reviewed in their raw delivery of their messages and of their videos.
I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but I think it's a dangerous thing. I agree.
We do have the First Amendment, as we talked about earlier. Hell yeah. Freedom of speech.
And believe it or not, I don't really even think it's the place of Twitter or X or Facebook or Instagram or Snapchat to fact check individuals.
I do think fact checking is an overreach on the part of the platforms, but I'm not necessarily saying they're not allowed to do it because they are allowed to regulate the content on their own platforms.
But if a politician is getting up there and lying or spouting information that hasn't been verified or is non-scientific or detrimental to the public health, I need to know about that.
I need to know that they have access to their unfiltered content to know what's truly going on in their head and what's truly going on.
Because when they go to Congress floor or a state representative floor or even a local legislative body, there's no fact checking.
They're in a position of authority to make laws and decisions that affect me.
Facebook will not be involved at that point.
So I need Facebook to allow me to make the assessment unfiltered of what those people stand for, of what those people are reporting and the conversations that those people are having.
If it's untrue, that's my responsibility as a listener to verify what is being told to me.
And I think that's what we learned very early on in school of how to recognize primary sources and secondary accounts and things like, is this a blog versus a scientific journal peer reviewed article?
We learned those skills early on. Everybody who went through the American...
Let me stop myself.
You just said a word that I haven't heard in 10 years, primary source, in 20 years, primary source.
But has everybody here learned about primary sources?
Yeah, it's just been so long since I've even heard that.
I feel like, I mean, my brother is, I keep bringing up my brother, my brother is 16 and he's in a military academy.
So I don't know if this counts as like American education system, but like it's a private American education system.
But like he's learning shit that was like way above the level that I was learning at his age.
But also he's going to LaSalle Institute over in Troy, like the military, like pretty, pretty high level, like academic place.
I went to fucking Waterville League, which is top or bottom 10 of New York State with graduation levels.
Dang.
Oh, wow.
But you do remember learning about primary sources?
I do remember learning about primary sources though.
That's coming from somebody who is in the bottom 10.
I think if you graduate college, you have to know what that means, how to like identify whether an article is bogus or it's scientific.
But for some reason, we have completely stopped doing that.
We're taking 15 seconds worth of information or 15 seconds worth of like out of context videos and just taking it as facts, sharing it.
Untitled plug.
Repeating it, making our political decisions, who we vote for, who we choose to support, who we talk to our friends about on unverified information.
And if it is opinions, it's opinions, right?
If somebody if a politician gets up there and says, I think this about this.
Sure, that's their opinion.
They're entitled to it.
But if a politician gets on Instagram or TikTok and says, you know, this is what happened on this day.
And then, you know, this is what's going on in this country, it should be our responsibility to to to go to either more reputable sources or the primary sources of of seeking out like like what are the accounts of people who are actually there, people who actually experienced it.
You know, what does science say COVID?
You know, we talked about COVID vaccines and the medications involved in it.
The different companies and what have you.
But how many of those people who were like so against the COVID vaccine actually went and studied how vaccines work, how the COVID vaccine works.
What were they targeting?
I actually don't believe COVID was real.
So.
What's that?
You didn't believe it was real?
No.
Casey, give your COVID payback.
Can I can I be sued for that now like Alex Jones?
By all the people that had COVID, including myself.
I had COVID too, six times.
You guys can all sue me.
So, so yeah, so that's where I say like the social media gave a voice to people who otherwise would never have a voice.
But it is also dangerous when you take it as as fact when you take it unverified and when you kind of just take it as law.
Oh, right. It's kind of like religion, right?
When you take like a story.
I'm not touching that one.
I think also like people who make content are incentivized to make negative content because that's what people remember.
There's a negativity bias.
So people like I see like say a lot of my stuff is like the first thing that comes up on my feet is Fox News stuff.
So they're going to say all the worst things about the left.
Right. And it's just going to like just indoctrinate my brain with all this.
Nancy Pelosi is the devil and she's an insider trader making 90 billion dollars stealing money from the American people.
I'm like, oh my God, I get the swirls in my eyes.
I'm like, and I go out believing this.
Right.
And then I go and watch an interview with Nancy Pelosi and I'm like, oh wow, she's actually like she has some really patriotic traits.
And I never would have thought that based on what I see on Fox News.
Like she actually like genuinely does care about the United States.
Like I can tell based on like some of the things that she said.
Right. So does she is she an insider insider trader?
Maybe. And is she making 90 billion dollars off like legislation and stuff?
Maybe. I don't know.
So simultaneously. Right.
It's like there's layers of truth on both sides.
But what sells is the negative.
Right. People want to see they don't and they don't look for information.
They look for affirmation.
They want to be charged with war crimes.
Yes. Yes.
Anybody can be charged with a war crime.
Okay. So anyway, so I agree with you 100 percent.
And I just want to touch on the bill reform topic in New York because I have found that there's a lot of misinformation about bill reform and a lot of it was started by the opponents of bill reform.
Even the Clean Slate Act.
That was what just a few months ago.
You know, that one sheriff's department from out west and full disclosure, I do respect the police.
I think they play a very important part of our society.
I respect the men and women who do it.
I'm evaluating their position as enforcers and their positions as political bodies in addition to, you know, protectors of the public.
Full disclosure.
With that said. Disclaimer.
Yep. Thank you, Casey.
Full disclaimer.
Where's the other boot?
Actually, it is a disclosure.
I'm not disclaiming anything.
I'm not disclosing my...
What's the difference?
I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
I'm going to go with what he says.
Well, he's a lawyer. He's our lawyer.
Maybe I should just shut my mouth.
All right.
So with that said, when the Clean Slate Act came out, there was that sheriff's department out west who released that social media post that was like, like the Clean Slate Act will clean the records of, you know, people who's been convicted of like murder and whatnot.
Like all these like egregious sounding crimes.
And somebody had sent it to me.
And by the time it got to me, it had been shared like a couple thousand times.
I want to say like several thousands of times it's been shared across New York State.
And I'm looking at the post and I'm going, that's not right.
That doesn't even sound closely right.
So what did I do?
I pulled up the assembly bill and looked at it like the actual like law of it.
And the post was completely wrong.
It was completely inaccurate.
But it got views.
And it got people to share it.
It got people to talk about.
It got opponents to oppose it and to post under Kathy's Instagram page of how terrible it is.
And you know, you're protecting child rapists and you're protecting like former murderers.
And we won't be able to know who those people are.
But what the act actually targeted was people who made like silly little mistakes or who had opportunities to turn their life around.
And should the criminal record follow you for the entire rest of your life, barring you from employment, barring you from housing, even though that's not really supposed to happen, but it does.
Barring you from certain professional licensures, from being able to apply for certain services, work in certain divisions, etc.
Should that really diminish your earning capacity and your ability to be a contributing member of society if you truly departed from that life or if it truly was a mistake?
And again, there's mechanisms in place and time limits in place to make sure that that actually takes place.
So they did the same thing with bail reform.
In the United States, you're innocent until proven guilty in the court of law, right?
Either by a judge or a jury of your peers.
Bail was only meant to secure your return to court.
Bail was never meant to say like how guilty you are or how not guilty you are.
So we ran into this condition where people were being accused of a crime and were sitting in jail for days, weeks, months, sometimes years, without ever being proven that they actually did something.
Instead, they kind of sat in jail through this litigation process. So they're losing their jobs.
They're losing their apartments. They're not seeing their kids.
They're not sleeping in their bed every night.
So you are depriving them of some of our most fundamental liberties while they still haven't been proven guilty in the court of law.
So what bail reform did was got rid of that punitive factor from bail and said, we should return bail to what it originally was, and that was to make sure that you come back to face your charges and to face your punishment and actually litigate your case.
If you go way back, way, way back in the day, used to like, like turn in a goat or a chicken, you know, a house, your wife, something of the sort to really secure that you will come back.
These days, everything is done through cash. So your cash bail or shorty bond, whatever it is, is literally just like, like, what is your risk of not coming back?
You don't come back. You surrender that bail to the people.
Non bailable offenses.
They did a lot of studies and they did they did they took a lot of information and basically came to the conclusion that a lot of people come to court, just because they're supposed to come to court.
A lot of people do what they're supposed to do without the threat of jail and jail was not necessary to make sure that people came to face your speeding ticket.
And if people didn't come, there were mechanisms in place to make sure that people did come in the future.
Like, if you don't pay your easy pass in New York, they'll suspend your registration.
If you don't answer a summons, they'll suspend your registration, which you'll get other tickets for it'll cost you more money.
You won't be able to transfer your car. You won't be able to re-register your car.
So there are other mechanisms to make sure that people face their charges and, you know, are are basically handle their business besides keeping them in jail.
Actually, I have to pay my easy pass right now.
You mentioned that.
So the other disparity that people found was that judges were setting really high bails for otherwise petty offenses like a like a petty larceny over at Crossgates.
If that person was stealing, you know, with the exception of like the regular kleptomaniac, what are the chances they can afford a ten thousand dollar cash bail or cash bond?
Not very high. So do you really want that person sitting in jail for four months while they only stole an eighty dollar jacket at JCPenney?
Is that equitable? That's debatable.
Debate it. We're here. I think we got some echo.
We got a check. Hold on. All right. We're back. All right. We're back.
So real quick before we take questions.
So another condition with the disparities was that like people were sitting in jail for months and years for like low level like pot DWI stuff like that.
But wealthy people and people have access to a lot of funds can literally murder somebody, still return home pending the duration of their trial or, you know, like some sort of big egregious offense like Harvey Weinstein and shit.
Yeah. And still be home for their trial.
But somebody who got on a bar fight on a Friday night had to spend two weeks in jail until their lawyer can work out a plea deal for them.
You know, where's the equity in that? So, OK, questions.
So for like crimes like murder and stuff is the bail like things still like they don't have bail for for murders like or or alleged murders, I should say.
Sure. So I just want to clarify that like in New York, there's a bailable offense and there's a non bailable offense.
Non bailable offenses are what the legislators have in their infinite wisdom decided are like if you're charged with this offense, the judge is not going to set bail.
They're going to set some sort of pretrial release and not might not necessarily be our war.
You might have to check in with probation or something of the sort.
But it's not like absent some aggravating factor like you're already out on another charge, for example, on the that the judge can't set bail on that.
They have to let you go with some sort of pretrial release condition.
A bailable offense is a more serious level crime where the judge is allowed to set bail and the judge is supposed to set what he considers the the the minimum required bail to ensure your return to court.
So absent an additional condition of if you are out on bail on another felony or out on bail on like a multiple string of charges, then the then the judge has the authority to just revoke that altogether and then remand you to a correctional facility where you'll stay, where they know you'll behave and you'll be able to produce to face your charges.
So if you're facing a murder, what they can do is that they can either set a really, really high bail with the justification that's that's what's going to take for you to face a murder charge or if it is like so egregious, like they're sure you're not coming back if they let you go, you're going to get remanded.
Something like so I've seen like in the news, this might be like a single case type thing, but I've seen in the news like a couple of times. I don't know if it's the same case or whatever.
A guy got arrested for domestic domestic abuse, got like let out on no bail and then went back and murdered his wife or whoever it was, his spouse.
And then they could the the bail have protected that person type thing. Could the bail have saved that person's life type thing?
Like, because domestic disputes can be as like simple as yelling at your wife to threatening your wife to kill them. But you didn't actually do anything at that point yet. Right. But in like the court, like the eyes of the thing could if you threatened to or if you were have a history of violence and you are in like a domestic dispute, can they do that thing where they're like, OK, we're going to keep you in a jail for the safety of this person?
Because even if they have a order of protection against that person now, what's like if a guy's trying to kill you in order of protection isn't going to really do anything. I feel like.
Yeah, I'm actually really happy you you asked that.
That brings up several points of conversation.
So first, if there's a danger to a specific member of the public, they will order order protection and it's usually some sort of full stay away. It could be a refrain from depending, but usually a full stay away.
And if you disobey that order of protection, then you could be remanded to a correctional facility on a criminal contempt charge.
But unfortunately, that is reactive.
That is, you have to actually violate it, not just say you're going to violate it for you to be taken in a second time.
So if you do decide to kill your wife in that first time, you know, there's there's like it just is what it is.
However, I think that was few and far between. And, you know, I was around the time where like bail reform was developing, I was following like a lot of police departments and a lot of sheriff's offices post on their Facebooks and Instagrams.
And it is my opinion that especially their unions harped on every single case of repeat offender or like a release and worse crime like circumstance or scenario that they could to show of like, hey, look, bail reform is bad because this guy broke into three cars in three days and he got released every single time.
And it was only on the third time that he got remanded or that they sent bail.
But what they don't talk about is how many people get arrested on DWI is on drug charges on assaults on harassment disorderly conducts how many college kids could get into like little disagreements downtown and end up getting taken into custody.
And reckless drivers on 787 don't have to spend a week in jail, because they were going, you know, 91 in a 55.
And, like, even on the equal playing field, they don't talk about how many people get into an argument with their wife, whether physical or verbal get an order of protection and don't go kill their wives, but can still keep their job and can still provide for their kids and you know don't have to spend that time in jail.
Nobody talks about that.
So, the other, or the third point is, even if that person did murder their wife, there's no showing that if there was a bail set that that person wouldn't have been able to make bail.
And if they did make bail, or they would eventually be released anyway, there's no showing that a cooldown period would have saved that person that that wife there's there's there's no showing that I can see that I've ever read in the news that like that person was still hot headed by the time
they got released.
And that even if it was three days or four days or five days later that he still wouldn't have come back found her and killed her. Yeah, because that's like my, the only point that I would have like against that is that maybe the cooldown period would have an effect on that.
We like there's there's not really any telling. There's not really any way to like prove it one way or the other type thing, because everybody's like humans are so volatile everywhere, right that it's a case by case basis, but I just, the thing is that I'm like, because I've seen like cases like that that I've been a part of where like the, the, the, the wife of that person was significantly scared that they were going to come back and kill them.
Right. And that, that even if they had like, they went with their family or something to get get protected, they still felt like that they were going to come for them and hurt them or worse type thing.
Right. And I just feel like for like, specifically, like domestics and stuff.
There should like, I feel like their reform itself isn't a bad thing. I feel like it could be, I feel like it's a, it could be a good thing, but I feel like it's, it's still in the temperamental phases where you kind of have to like, there's, we're still figuring out how to do things type thing.
And like, it's just that I'm more worried about like, for like the safety of prior victims getting retaliation pretty much from getting someone arrested type thing. Because once again, not everybody's going to go back or 90% of the people aren't going to go back and hurt them again or try to kill them or another thing like that.
But there's always that like, it might be 10, it might be less than 10%, but like, there's always that percentage that will do that again and just go back and hurt them again or worse.
And that's just like, it's, you know, the needs of the many versus the needs of the few type thing, where you're like, where it's like, okay, this is helping a lot of people, but it's kind of like the whole dilemma is if you can help 100 people but one person dies, is it, was it more morally justified to help the 100 people to have one person die or have 70 people get punished but nobody dies type thing.
And it's like, it's a moral dilemma type thing with that. And that's why, I mean, I get where you're coming from. And you actually put it more into perspective because I didn't know about the other stuff on that.
But that's just kind of like my like stand case. It's a more person by person basis on that I think, the way that they see that, the way that they see that that type of thing.
And it's also just based on like person to person, the needs of the many versus the needs of the few, does one person dying really, is like one person dying worth helping 100 other people, and then if you don't help anybody but nobody dies type thing, is it still worth that because one person didn't die type thing.
And it's just, it's a hard subject and I can see both sides of it. And it's just like, it's one of those things where somebody loses in every situation, and you just got to figure out the loss type thing.
I think it's important to mention too that it's not only an if or or, like these are the only two options scenario, because the state, the government, law enforcement agencies, they do have a substantial interest in protecting victims of crimes who will also end up serving as their witnesses.
So, if there is concerns for that, it could very well be the prerogative of the local sheriff's office or the local law enforcement agency to sit outside that person's house, or, you know, assist in the relocation of that person, you know, provide an additional level of protection like beyond what the, what is provided for the general public, if that is what the law enforcement chooses to do.
And just the other thing is like on the end of a victim.
I'm not victim blaming here, but we each do kind of have somewhat of a responsibility to keep ourselves safe. In addition to what the safety nets that are provided by the government, not safety nets, the safety mechanisms like being able to call 911 and whatnot.
And, you know, if we were talking about the Second Amendment, we would say we all have the right to defend ourselves and protect our homes. But if we're talking about domestic violence.
Should you take the affirmative steps to remove yourself even though it is your home to disappear to to go stay in a hotel to go to a batter woman shelter, something of the sort, to prevent that from happening as a just a matter of preserving your own safety, if you know that that's a possibility.
And I know what you're going to say, isn't that the government's job is to that person stay in jail, but that goes back to are you going to keep 100 people in jail who are not going to do anything for the actions of what one might do.
So it's really where you stand on the moral moral grounds.
Thankfully we live in a democratic republic where our legislators make that decision for us, and they've chosen it to be this way but like I said, as much as the police departments post about these sorts of like repeat crimes.
I would call on them to have either victims advocates or like victims protective services to, you know, go spend 12 hours and and put a car outside their house or put a car in their driveway for 12 hours and I'm very comfortable using taxpayer dollars to do that.
If we're comfortable using taxpayer dollars to keep individuals incarcerated.
I agree with that but like that's that's that's kind of like the road that I was going down I'm like, if we're going to do the bail reform.
I, but I, I'm for keeping people who weren't like dangerous criminals like all that like just, just let them go do their thing, if they're going to come back and face their data court, but like it was just the the victims that I was concerned for.
And that's what I was saying like is that if there was a way to do something.
Having a officer sitting in like their driveway type thing, like until like it gets resolved or something.
I feel like that's a better allocation of resources, because instead of having as many prison guards you could have actual officers on the street, doing actual things.
Which I agree with you on that part. Like I'm not saying like there's a there's a one size fit all solution to this.
Right, and nor am I.
Yeah, but like I'm saying that I am more concerned about the victims of violent crimes or or threats of violence towards them than a guy who fucking did like you know, little too fast on the highway, evaded his taxes type shit like.
Right. I'm like, I'm like you you do that and I'm like I get that.
But like like it's the violent offenders are the ones that I'm more concerned about or the the potential of violence from the offender.
And that's why I'm like there could be the there could be reforms to the bail reform type thing there could be different ways of doing it.
There should there could be more protections for the victim.
There could be different things it just it's a I feel like it's a good way to put it.
I got a solution labor camps.
We make the prisoners forced to do labor so that way. It's like how come we're paying for a prisoner to survive like three meals a day.
And like how much it costs for a prisoner to survive a year and we're not paying for homeless people who aren't prisoners.
So I actually have been watching a lot of jail reform videos on YouTube just because I got down like a rabbit hole of like you know like life in prison type thing because this one guy is really good at telling stories.
Tyler's making some plans for the future.
No but like like he's really good like it like speaking and like doing that and like talk about like jail reform and stuff.
Are you talking about what's his name?
Larry Lawton.
Is that the big guy with tattoos?
Yeah.
Just kind of screams at the camera.
Yeah.
The whole time.
Hmm.
I think I just thought it was interesting.
But like but like just like the shit that he said that like prisons are not nice to their to their inmates stuff.
But like the the way that the like he and like I did research into it.
I don't take his fucking words of face value.
Remind me about prisons not being nice.
Jeff wanted me to tell a story.
Go ahead.
I remember that we were doing this and I'm like and one of the things was that the prison industry type thing where they're paying prisoners like what 50 cents like an hour type thing and they're taking jobs away from people who are outside of prison too.
And they're like because companies outside of prison can't compete with a workforce that works for 50 cents an hour type thing.
I'll put in a plug for illegal immigrants.
Just for the record.
We'll come back to that though.
Continue.
But they're like they'll do that for 50 cents an hour at prison and they pretty much don't get a choice to do that.
They have to work or they're not going to get stuff from like the commissary and stuff.
They can't get they can't get stuff.
Of course they get like the three meals a day and then like the stuff.
But like in order to get anything else you have to either do more crimes in prison or do the prison industry type shit.
Which is a really weird like thing.
I feel like prisons is the fucking parallel universe.
I will mention I believe Albany County still does its inmate workforce.
Right.
Oh good.
I believe so.
Labor camp.
All case you heard was labor camp.
Well rather than spending money on the prisoners to why don't we just have the even out by they have to work for their their survival.
Basically that's cruel and unusual punishment.
Now I think it's I think it's you.
Well I have to work to in order to survive.
Right. I have to work in order to get food.
How come they don't have to work.
Right.
Why is that cruel and unusual.
If they just got if they just got a free meal free meals a place to stay.
And they'd have to work that almost be like communism Casey.
Right.
So you're advocating for capitalism.
Oh communism doesn't say that people who don't work should still get all these benefits.
It says people have to work and try to benefit society somehow.
Casey communism is the worst form of government that ever existed.
And I will not fight you on this again because every time that we do we just end up screaming at each other.
All right. So I'm not going to touch on that.
What I do want to touch on though is.
Oh goodness I got distracted by the communism.
What did you say.
Oh I.
But what was I talking about.
Labor camps labor camps.
How people.
Oh OK.
So I'm sure we have all in our fields of work heard the term in your custody is in your care.
Yeah.
So like the standards are providing for somebody protecting somebody nourishing somebody handling their basic human needs is a lot different when you take somebody into custody versus when somebody is just existed in your area.
You know on your jurisdiction in your state in your house.
Right. So if the government is making a voluntary decision to strip that person from their ability to provide for themselves they're also observing the responsibility to provide for them regardless whether they committed a crime.
Right. And if you don't do that then we have big problems.
I think those more serious the crime the harder your work should have to be like Casey's.
You should have to be you like swinging the sledgehammer at rocks. Right. But you think the if you're like dead in prison you can just like do like charts and Microsoft Excel.
Yeah I think so.
Okay so yeah that's that's kind of my two cents on bill reform. I do think that legislation is alive and every legislative session I'm sure the topic will come up things will get amended things will get changed times will be added times will be decreased and available not available.
So you know I think that the state was going to have to adjust based off of the needs of the public but I do think we're headed in the right direction. That's my personal opinion that we're having right. Right. So it's like all the things that we've heard about
bail reform are coming from the people who have really no idea what they're talking about and probably shouldn't have a voice on it. That's what this podcast is never going to say somebody should.
I am going to say that their voice is unverified. Okay. What's your general opinion of after having defended people against law enforcement and working with law enforcement. What's your general opinion on law enforcement. Yeah.
Okay, so as my lot of improvement needed.
So had gone earlier, I do respect our members of law enforcement, I do think they perform a very important job, this claim, and it is a very selfless position to be in, where you are facing or have the potential to face a lot of danger, whether that would be through like
violence, you know, driving a high rates of speed, facing gunfire getting stabbed, etc. In the spirit of protecting the public, so I do respect that.
And as I respect it, I think it's important to criticize and to have the ability to, and have an open dialogue about what we could do better. Dealing with law enforcement, what law enforcement could do better, dealing with the public, and just kind of being that, like,
essential position of authority in our society. Most people will only interact with the government through law enforcement. Like to most regular people, the entire face of the government is law enforcement, and that's getting pulled over, that's, you know, dealing with like whoever
responds to, you know, domestic disturbance or a theft. You know, you go to the DMV, what, once every other year, and you can even do that online, actually.
They're very mean.
You know what, I will put it a plug for the Hudson City DMV down in Columbia County. Those are probably my favorite people down there. I've never had a negative experience at the Hudson City DMV.
Same thing about Boston Spa. The Detroit ones are angry. They yelled at me.
Scary. It's a little rough. I got in a verbal altercation there once.
Oh dear.
So, you know, there was one cop that said, she was in the process of arresting a guy and she was, you know, kind of getting a little angry. And one of the things that she yelled that people kind of hold in on was like she yelled, I am the law.
What are you, Judge Dredd?
Hear me out a second. Hear me out a second. I don't disagree with her.
Because when I am pulled over, or I'm interacting with a law enforcement agency, she represents the legislatures who make the law that she's enacting. She represents executive branch that is enforcing the laws against me.
And she represents the judiciary that is going to be responsible. She's going to present my case to the judiciary and going to be responsible for convicting me or fighting me guilty or applying a law to law to facts.
So to me, she is the law.
But that only heightens the standard that we should hold them to.
Because if you're representing a 1976, right?
Which one?
The country was born.
1776.
That's what I meant. 1776.
I know the fact.
Yeah, 1776. So you have like such a rich history of American jurisprudence, of people fighting for rights, people dying for rights, freedom of speech, the Second Amendment, the freedom to vote, anti-discrimination, and like all these people, all these history books that we look for, shape and mold and harden what we call like law.
And it's a very simple word, but it's a very complex history and a very complex effect.
And then when you put on that badge, you represent all of it. Every single bit from the Constitution to the state Constitution to every single Supreme Court case that has been going on.
That badge represents every single bit of it to the common person.
So.
Dude, you're hyping up like the law. Like before, I thought the law was just like just black and white text.
Like boring. Like just a bunch of like, oh, this is Statue 109XA. You know what I mean? Like that's what I thought. It's like the law is cool, dude. Yeah.
I'm getting hyped about the law.
The law is rock and roll, dude. I should have used this song earlier.
Oh, it's a good background. So with that said, like that is the scope that I view and that I hold law enforcement. It is very, very high.
I don't think that there is a more dangerous position to be in if you misbehave, even if it's not intentional. If you screw up, if you shoot somebody you're not supposed to enforce a law you're not supposed to enforce or improperly enforce a law.
I don't think there's a more dangerous position you can be in. Even in courts, there's appeals processes. There's higher courts that keep oversight, so judicial behavior committees.
If it's a matter of shoot, don't shoot, arrest, not arrest, search, don't search, separate, not separate, trespass, not trespass. Like those little tiny decisions and interpretations of the law will affect that person for the rest of their life.
You know, if it's a matter of charging somebody with a felony versus a misdemeanor could affect their voting rights, you know, their gun ownership, their employment, their positions.
If you get a child abuse case wrong, that person could lose their kid for years, battling children services and whatever other agency that wants to come after them.
Immigration status. You pull somebody over with no probable cause and that person doesn't deported.
Your actions have very real and very dire consequences, no matter how little you think pulling somebody over for that, like rolling through a stop sign or you know that going 12 miles over. Everything you do has consequences for the people you interact with.
Points of improvement.
I think the academy needs to be longer.
Right. I think we should just have all cops be required to be lawyers.
That would be interesting. I feel like that would be like saying we should have all paramedics be doctors.
Going backwards.
You gotta go forward to go backwards.
You can't do it. You're all doctors now.
But I really do think that we're failing our own law enforcement officers by not training them enough, and I'm not only talking about sensitivity training.
I'm not talking about at all. I'm talking about like some true constitutional like study.
Some true legal interpretation.
So, don't like the troopers like New York State troopers, they have to go through a way more in depth academy than a standard officer.
Yes.
And I think they actually have to go through not nearly as much as like a lawyer, but they have to go through like actual like law, something during the academy.
Yeah, my understanding is that their training is pretty extensive. But the other thing I want to keep in mind is that, although an academy might be six months, how much of that is PT, how much of that is driving is range time is shooting is how to arrest a subject, you know, the mental health training they have to go through now.
So there's a lot of distracting factors of like how to enforce the law. But I want to see more of like what the law is, how to read the law, how to interpret the law, how to apply the law.
So would you be for having police having to have a four year degree in or not a four year degree, but at least like, like training on the level of like a four year degree.
I would be very comfortable if we turned like law enforcement into what nursing is and didn't the kind of like a like a bachelor's of law enforcement.
I feel like that's how it should be. There's like, yeah, yeah. And then you go through your training, you know, your freshman sophomore year, you might do the physical stuff and get that out of the way.
Then your your sophomore junior year, you spend time like studying the procedure, all the little ins and outs of it. I'd be very comfortable if law enforcement's a bachelor's degree.
And I'm not saying that like I'm minimizing the commitment, but I am saying that if somebody is making the commitment to law enforcement, that we should set them up to succeed at law enforcement.
With that said, I do know that being in law enforcement also changes people over time, constantly being in that position of like authority, constantly being in like the violence, seeing the worst in people, you know, seeing really most people at their worst days and like the compassion runs out eventually.
Compassion is not limitless. I feel that. Yeah. Same fam. It's honestly not industry specific either. But when like police officers start losing compassion and you know, when police police officers start getting jaded about certain situations and and like stop looking at the subjects as people, you run into a very real problem like dehumanizing a very human population.
Sure. Yeah, that's like one of the things like like say you were looking at like a career option. You look at police and it's like, OK, you go to the academy and become a cop. It's like, then where do you go from there?
It's like that's where Sergeant. Right. Captain. It's like that's pretty much there's really not a lot of options. It's like, how can you stop compassion fatigue? How can you stop it?
Or maybe this this will be a fun one. Get like if you spend a certain amount of time doing this like job field, you get like a year vacation or something like that.
That's not unheard of actually in education. They do that. You spend 10 years teaching for somebody. You take what is that called? The sabbatical sabbatical. Yeah.
You spend 10 years something you take an entire year off where you don't have to work and you're still paid. Yeah. Like if they did something like that, that could that could help. I want to fucking sabbatical.
I mean, you like I'm not saying like this is this is I guess it's a semi selfish thing, but like EMS is just in like the same job, like same field like you. You work five years in EMS.
You're toast. You're you're you're fucking your your compassion goes pretty down. And then like you get like a year off, you're still getting paid the same amount that you would. You have to come back, obviously.
But like you get a year off. I feel like that could reach like you'd be like, I want to go back. I like I like you get that. You get that when you first started that I want to help people type thing come back type thing.
I'm sure life would just be like, oh yeah, you want to go back? Come on, come on, step back in the way. You think you like it again?
I was going to go back to EMS. It's been like three years.
No, I mean, you know, it's everybody's different for the level of stress and like how much they can take and everybody has different a different tolerance for pain.
But how about a model where like like the teaching the teaching model so you don't get tired of your students, you have a summer break.
So what about for law enforcement EMS first response? You work nine months out of the year. You get three months off.
Yeah, everybody's on a rotating schedule. I'd hate to be a guy who has his time off in the winter.
Yeah, I wouldn't. I'd go to like class and stuff and be nice.
I think I'd be like one of the guys that's like, I'll do the winter one.
I was like not enough time to forget your skills and to become out of shape.
But it's enough time to like step away, take a breather with your family.
You know, remember that you have family at home that loves you and you have hobbies outside of work and you know, it's OK to fill your free time with.
Yeah. And like actually take a real vacation.
Well, that's all a pipe dream, but that will never happen because of capitalism.
We live in a capitalist society. That's not true, Casey.
I'll put in a plug if those police unions would stop attacking the reform and instead convince the towns and counties that their police officers work in to do something like that.
I think the police if you work for a private company or hospital, they're not going to want to get people.
They're not going to want to pay people for three months not to do any work when they're already doing teachers.
Yeah, that's what they do with teachers. That's a government.
Also, look at how many fucking nurses are dropping like fucking flies and look at how many EMTs and paramedics are just dropping out.
They're like, I'm not doing this job anymore. It's too much.
And then, oh, we can retain 80 percent of those people if we give you three months off a year.
Also, I think like you're saying with like law enforcement, like the nursing model, how there's like there's room to grow.
Like it's in EMS, it's just like once you're a paramedic, where do you go from paramedic director of operations?
It's like, you know, there's kind of like a cat. You're kind of limited there.
I mean, you can go to flight medic if you want, which they make half of what a flight nurse makes.
But if there was like, say, a really obvious path to go from like, you know, your paramedic to bachelor's and paramedic to say there's like a master's in,
say you could work it into something else, like you could become a PA. You know what I mean?
Like that was just an obvious path. And then you retire out of the first response.
You know, so it's like it's not like your time that you're putting into that is wasted.
You know what I mean? Like all the time that Tyler has on. How long you been an EMT?
Eight years. Eight years. Say that time counted towards being a PA. Right.
Then you go to call with like you have a goal in mind.
It's not just like, oh, I'm doing this for the paycheck so I can buy more fast food.
I mean, they can do it like a military ask thing, too, because like start off as a grunt, get up to sergeant after sergeant that you can go to like, you know, lieutenant captain and start getting to like the the actual like logistics area of it.
But like, don't just make it like you're an EMT or a paramedic. That's it. Right. That's all you got. Right.
And I think even I was saying to my friend like five years ago, they should have like like paramedic level one paramedic level two.
So there's like obvious like you get paid more if you're a paramedic level two or paramedic level three.
Some of that is how many years you have on the job, your experience, and some of it is more schooling.
I also think that if we did is a system like that, you should have like, you know, EMT and you have to research in order to go to paramedic school because like the whole thing where you can literally take an EMT course
and then immediately take a paramedic course, I feel like is less than optimal. Right.
I mean, I did do a whole course over again before I went to medical school. Yeah.
And it made it made it a lot easier because it's like I just did my BLS stuff, you know.
But I mean, I don't really I shouldn't really have an opinion because I don't really ride in the ambulance anymore.
Not that I really don't. I don't. So I just I think if there was more of a clear path to keep like progressing forward,
there's like a longer term goal in mind and it keeps you motivated in the short term, you know, rather than just like just surviving, you know.
Right. If I can play devil's advocate, though, I think one of the issues we run into in EMS is that the typical EMS call only requires two, maybe three levels of care.
And that is the EMT, the paramedic and maybe a supervisor if it's a greater incident.
But for most systems, there are really only two job positions and we've been getting away with performing only two job positions.
So they keep us at only two job positions. For sure.
It's not like law enforcement where like the captain might be in charge of, you know,
entire shift group and setting everybody's schedules and zone coverage and whatnot, then lieutenants are, you know, get their little like squadrons assigned to them or like a specialty department of this, you know, the emergency services unit or like a special victims unit.
And then like the sergeant is like a shift sergeant who makes the decisions for the actual shift.
There is just not that level of command in the system, because like I said earlier, when we were off camera for most night shift EMS companies, the only rule is just got to do your job.
We all know what we're supposed to do already.
Decisions don't really have to be made.
So, are you suggesting that we introduce further standards of care?
Well, just like a clear, a clear path to either acquire more education to get out of, say, first response.
So everything you learn, because what's, what's the motivation to like learn more as like a paramedic if you, you have all the skills you need right now to do your job efficiently.
Yeah, I think that's the problem you're alluding to. There's none.
Right.
So it's like, why no more than you have to know, right, whereas you could go and you could read a book on cardiology, right, if it's going to apply towards something more you're working towards.
So I'm almost willing to, to like entertain the suggestion that like maybe we should start integrating like paramedicine and like nursing, for example, or create some sort of paramedic position that can be integrated into a hospital that's
sure more than just a patient care attack, we could start IVs.
Sure. And if you got like your paramedic to that you can operate as a paramedic in a hospital.
Absolutely.
Or exactly what I'm saying.
Or you could like, like urgent care, for example, like you can do the intakes and and like triages and like, administer medication stabilize people at an urgent care.
There's, there's an obvious path out of, see, I think a lot of like the burnout that comes with EMS. It's not just like, it's not, it's not your choice. It's not like, it's, it's physical, it's your body, like shutting off like the dopamine circuit saying, Hey, dude, look, you've been waking up in the middle of the night, going to car accidents and cardiac arrests.
And like, this is taking a toll on you. Like, we're going to make this not fun. Right. To save, to save, to save your life. Okay, because you don't see it, but your body's doing the math and your brain's like a chemical computer.
And it's like, yeah, no, shut that down. You know, I think.
Yep.
What happened to me?
Right. Same. It's like, I want, I wish it was like, still as fun as like it used to be to me. I miss that, dude. I wish I, I wish I could get that back.
But, yeah, where's I going? So I think maybe sometimes, like I envy people who still love it, dude.
I, I, I, I, as do I.
I assume you still, I don't love it, but I'm sure there's aspects you love of it and aspects of it you hate. But I do enjoy some shifts where you just sleep all night and get paid for it. Those are good.
And if I could make another suggestion, this, this isn't mine, a friend of mine, we were chatting about it and we just kind of like, like, why do we have school nurses, but not school paramedics? Who is more equipped to respond to a medical emergency on the campus of a school?
Right.
But a paramedic.
Sure.
And I know you can say like, well, nurses are responsible for, again, with all due respect to nurses, they're responsible for like maintaining like immunization records and assisting kids with their inhalers when they're having asthma attacks on the playground or, or, or administering EpiPens if little Suzy was exposed to peanut butter.
A nurse can do the same thing as a paramedic in that situation.
Yeah, but nurses do the same thing.
Right.
I get paid fucking $50 billion a year.
And I just go, Whoa, I'm sad to listen to a fucking doctor.
I make $40,000 a year I'm on fucking so many cigarettes right now fucking out of my mind.
I'm like, I'll stab somebody for a fucking sandwich.
So back to the school environment. If you have a kid like having a seizure, or, you know, God forbid goes into cardiac arrest, you know, get seriously injured.
Who is more response like who's more equipped to respond to that medical emergency but a paramedic.
Right.
By the way, who's that nurse going to call to come take this patient to the hospital.
Sure.
But a paramedic.
I actually looked into it.
Because my, my fiance is a teacher, and they need a new school nurse and I'm like, she's like, why don't you put in for him I didn't know fucking
she's a paramedic go for that she goes.
I looked into it. If you have any amount of medical experience so like,
I can't verify that information.
Whether a school nurse does not need a nursing degree.
That sounds fishy to me, a school nurse needs some sort of medical certification.
That's what I'm sure it depends on the school.
Okay.
I don't know if that was also just implied in the job title that you need to be a nurse to apply for this position.
They didn't say if I went in, I'm just like, you could probably be an LPN.
Yeah, that's probably what I'm thinking.
And LPN is below a fucking EMT and fucking skill.
I'd say it's about the same.
But I guess my point is like that would just be another like thing you can work towards, where like, like if you got hired as like the town of colony.
Like high school paramedic, and whether there's like one of you guys, two of you guys, but you're just responsible for the entire building.
And you know you get your first in fact you get your cardiac monitor.
In addition, you could also maintain those immunization records you can also assist the kids with the inhalers.
But if you respond to a medical emergency, you can actually start treating a patient.
You know, some kid breaks their leg during gym class, you can start administering pain medication until you know town of colony and mess gets there.
So like that sort of model.
But like, and I'll take suggestions from the crowd here.
Like what can a school nurse do that a paramedic can?
Right.
I think that I think there should be a lot, a lot more overlap between nursing and paramedic.
You know, I think nurses have themselves that says this is such high level that they, what nurses, nurses see themselves as so much better than paramedics.
And I don't see myself better as just a different environment.
No, you guys see yourselves as better and you treat us as not as equals, but as people below you.
I just think, you know, nurses in general are just they tend to be, you know, worse people than paramedics.
They nurses just tend to be, you know, they, I, I don't know.
I don't know if there's any nurses in the room.
All right.
But like nurses just seem to be like more miserable, even though they're making a lot more money than I am more miserable.
That's because we have six patients on time all night.
And you guys only have one.
Yeah.
But even though you're responsible for six patients in a night, it's not only you.
You have a tech available to you.
You have housekeeping.
Not always.
You have a doctor available to you or a PA or something.
And you can always call for help and you have more nurses who are sitting right next to you available to you.
I didn't know this was going to turn into a roast of nurses.
Hold on a second.
I'm not even against nurses, but I do want to cover this.
In the pre-hospital environment, you are your own janitor.
You check your own rig.
You do your own supplies.
You do your own patient care.
You do your own lifting and moving.
You know, our patients don't come neatly positioned on a stretcher like, oh, you have to take out two blankets out of the underneath.
How dare they?
How dare they leave two blankets?
I mean, they could just take it out when you get there.
You have security guards who are available to you, ready to keep you safe.
Like the police.
My security guard is on the right and left.
You can call for help anytime you want to.
Yeah, but it takes them five minutes to fucking get there.
I had a fucking person.
I called in on my fucking, hey, hit the panic button.
It said fucking gone.
And then they took them five minutes to get there.
It takes security five minutes to get to me.
But my point is like, yes, the work is different, but by no means is being a paramedic easier.
And I know I'm biased.
And I never said it was.
All right.
If you're telling me you don't think so, that's fine.
But that's just my two cents.
Yeah.
I think there's a lot of mutual respect, to be honest, between paramedics and nurses.
I think we're just both.
At nurses everywhere.
But to be honest, like attitude doesn't go to school and character doesn't go to school.
So if you were.
Yeah, intelligence doesn't go to school.
If you were a terrible person, it doesn't matter which side you went.
If you went to paramedics school as a terrible person, you're going to be a terrible person paramedic.
Right.
There's like there's bad medics, right?
There's medics who are bad people and there's cops who are bad people.
There's medics who are extremely good people.
When they get out into the field, they're just.
Do I think nurses.
Some medics who go back to patient houses and steal from them.
I'm not going to touch that.
But I do think that nurses are also in a position where their unprofessional behavior is often excused because of their necessity to the pre-hospital or to the in-hospital care environment.
Oh, yeah.
And I that I do think that especially like junior nurses will see seniors do it, pick up on it and just continue to cascade a terrible attitude, which will in turn cascade into nobody liking them, which will further generate a negative attitude, which just contains like this negative feedback mechanism of them just being miserable in their job position.
But if you go to work and smile and ask people how their day was, how your kids were, you know, did you do something fun in your off time?
I hope you got to relax.
I heard you had that bad call.
You know, how you doing from it?
You know, to taking care of others, I really think it's taking care of yourself.
Yeah, it's all about your attitude for either being a medic or a nurse.
All right, well, now let's measure that bed so that's what really makes me.
Enough about BLS.
Well, it's more stories.
Yeah, it always comes by me.
What do you expect?
You know, you get three people from four.
Mr. Lundy.
One, two, three, four.
Four people from EMS.
Are you good at trivia?
No.
No?
Damn it.
We need someone to take Tyler out.
What do you order on today?
I don't know.
Geez.
I'm public like this.
Sorry.
You are currently not offending my old factory sensitive.
All right, good.
It makes me feel better.
Have you ever, have you ever, well, everybody's watched Jeopardy.
But are you familiar with Jeopardy?
I am familiar with Jeopardy.
All right.
We're going to.
That was a good talk though, by the way.
I was.
That was good.
And by the way, I never said nurses are better than paramedics or anything of the sort.
You have never said that.
I have never said that.
Tyler always says that I say that.
He does.
I feel like the insinuation was.
I think I'm better than everybody.
Oh yeah, you always think you're better than everybody.
I'm a nurse.
I know more than you.
Like being a fucking dweeb.
Jesus Christ.
All right, it's time to.
We got, we got buzzers and everything.
Wrong.
Number two.
Are we playing Jeopardy?
Yeah.
15, 17 billion time where.
Back to Jeopardy and Alex for back here with your 16 time winner, Tyler.
Thank you.
Six time winner, Dan, the vitamin man.
Oh yeah.
First time on the show, Linsky.
Trying to take out Tyler.
He's a, he's like the grand champion.
He's the Ken Jennings of the show.
I hope you have a law section.
I don't have a law.
The awesome is the whole thing was law questions.
Fuck.
All right.
What do you got for categories there?
For categories, we've got musical atomic elements.
What the fuck does that even mean?
60 songs.
Name that state.
We're going down.
Famous DJs and all about snow.
This is terrible.
Why?
Cause you don't know what every category is.
Let's let the guests pick the first category.
All right.
Linsky.
So you can pick a category.
Do you?
The first one.
Musical atomic elements.
I have no idea what that means, but okay.
200.
The second category was also the name of a Nirvana song and an evidence of song.
What is lithium?
Lithium.
Uh, 60 songs.
60 songs.
You got to tell me what this song is by the intro.
Fuck.
I know this.
The name's a little bit longer.
What is house of rising sun?
I think, I think you should get that because yeah, I do too.
I'm not going to have a date.
He gets that one.
Yeah, we'll give it to.
Linsky.
Cause I only got it cause he said it.
Atomic elements.
Atomic musical elements.
For 400, this element can be used to clean swimming pools.
Also a 21 pilots.
What is chlorine?
Now I, I, you got to look at the numbers.
Oh, I didn't realize that was there.
Yeah.
What number am I?
You're a number two.
Okay.
Yeah.
So that's, we got to look at the number that does it.
Okay.
And then chlorine for Tyler.
What's he doing, buddy?
I wish.
Let's do atomic numbers.
For 600, this noble gas is commonly used to light up display signs.
Also.
What is neon?
John Marison.
Neon.
Tyler.
Atomic numbers.
For 800, if Ozzy had been a chemist, this element in the song's title would be called
F E man.
What is iron man?
Jesus.
Iron.
Tyler.
How many do I got?
Do I got any left in that?
Yeah.
One.
Yeah.
I'll do that.
A thousand Neil Young's heart is made of this element.
According to the 1972 song.
Gold.
Yes.
All right.
Okay.
All right.
You got 60 songs.
We're going down.
Famous DJs and all about snow.
200.
This 1982 British TV film featured the song we're walking in the air.
British TV film.
No.
The snowman.
What do you think?
It's now.
400.
Jon Snow is a character in this fantasy TV.
Correct.
At least I'm not in the negative.
I go back to 60s.
60 songs for 400.
You guys here?
No.
I'm going to go to the negative.
It's good too far.
What is space?
Oh, no, that's wrong.
It's not.
No.
Wait.
No, wait.
No, that was right.
Anyone else?
No, that's definitely right.
This is a city.
Odyssey.
You fuck.
God damn it.
Perfect.
Whatever.
Fucking 60 songs.
Fuck it.
600.
Oh, my God.
What is Black Dog by
What's Happening?
No.
Anyone?
A Lotta Love.
God damn it.
60 songs.
For 800.
California Dreaming.
Oh, yeah.
All right.
Okay.
We got a competition here.
Mr. Lundy's back.
60 songs.
For a thousand.
Fuck.
Love Shrine.
What's that?
Love Shrine.
No.
What is respect?
Oh, yeah.
Jesus fucking.
Tyler.
Thanks.
Was that a thousand?
That was a thousand.
What are the other songs?
Name that state we're going down.
Famous DJs and All About Snow.
Famous DJs.
All right.
For 200.
This Miami Beast DJ is also a hype man, record producer and record executive.
Despite his personal...
What is DJ Khaled?
DJ Khaled.
DJs.
For 100.
One might take a pill in Ibiza to show this DJ that they're cool.
God damn it.
Fuck.
That was Adam the Negative, right?
No, not yet.
Dance Fig.
Ah, DJs.
Fuck.
For 600.
This EDM DJ took off in 2014 with his hit single Animals.
Oh, God.
Ah, fuck.
I know this.
Fuck.
Is it...
I don't...
It starts with something.
Yeah, I know it.
It'll be Martin Garrix.
Fuck.
Dance Fig.
Snow.
Snow for 600.
President Snow ruled Panem in this film.
What is the Hunger Games?
Hunger Games.
He didn't even...
There wasn't even...
There's three words.
He said President Snow.
President Snow is fucking a very high character in Hunger Games.
Tyler Speck.
Ah, fuck.
DJs.
See what I'm dealing with here?
DJs for 800.
What's the scores, everybody?
3400.
Linsky got 1000.
Dan's got negative 200.
How much is this question normally worth?
800.
I think 800.
800.
This Dutch DJ is considered the godfather of EDM.
Dutch DJ.
Fuck.
Who's DJ?
I'm just gonna go with...
No, it's not Daft Punk.
I'm gonna go with Tiesto.
It's not him.
I know it's not.
It's Tiesto.
That's correct.
Yeah.
Wow.
That would have been my guess.
Tyler Speck.
All right.
Fucking DJs.
Close it out.
DJ for 1000.
This dubstep DJ's real name is Sonny John Moore.
What is Skrillex?
Skrillex.
Oh, what a runaway.
Tyler got snow.
Name that state and we're going down.
We're going down.
We're going down for 200.
This plane crash named after a Spanish city killed 583 people in 1977 when a Boeing 747
collided with a Pan Am 747 in the Canary Islands.
No, I don't know.
No?
Tenerife.
All right.
What are the other ones again?
It was the most...
It was the deadliest plane crash in history.
Damn.
What are the other ones?
Name that state.
All About Snow.
Oh, that's...
Name...
Oh, that's state.
State for 200.
Yeah, 50, 200.
Dundee's got a thousand.
Yep.
And you got negative two.
Negative 200.
I'll do 500.
500.
Nancy Pelosi represents this state in the House of Representatives.
California.
What is California?
Oh, yeah.
Name that state.
Name that state for 400.
Besides its most populous city, other cities in the state include Lafayette, Bossier City,
and Baton Rouge.
What is Louisiana?
Oh, yeah.
Out of the negative.
200, baby.
Dance pick.
Me and the state.
600.
As Dorothy says, we're not in this state.
What is Kansas?
Fucking goddamn...
Too fast.
Name that state.
800.
This state is known as the land of 10,000 lakes.
What is Michigan?
Nope.
10,000 lakes.
What is Florida?
Nope.
Fuck it.
I didn't even like that.
Nope.
Minnesota.
Oh, fuck.
Tyler's pick.
State.
For 1,000, the least populous US state.
Alaska.
No.
What is Rhode Island?
Rhode Island?
No.
What state is it?
Hawaii?
You buzzing in?
Hawaii?
No.
What is it?
Anyone else?
Wyoming.
Who fucking cares about Wyoming?
Fuck Wyoming.
Oh damn, my whole Jeopardy thing just fucking shut down.
Oh, restart.
Restart.
Oh, you've got some scores.
Tyler's pick.
So what's the scores now?
You got 4,500, once you got negative 1,000, Dan's got negative 600.
How many states do we got left?
Zero?
No, no states.
Oh, god damn.
Fucking, I'll do, let it snow.
Let it lay tits now.
All about snow.
800.
Based on a German fairy tale, this 1937 Disney film features a princess and her work in the
custom lake.
What does snow look like?
Dan, I like it.
Oh, you got a negative.
More than negative 1?
Yeah, 200.
Yes.
You got snow.
4,500 to...
To 200.
Jesus.
Guys are so fly.
We're going down and all about snow.
We're going down.
For 400.
Daily double.
You can bet up to 1,000.
What do I have?
600?
200.
Oh, I have 200.
Well, I mean zero is better than, how about we do 100,000.
199.
A B-52 bomber collided with this New York building in 1945.
I don't have to buzz in, but it's the Empire State Building.
Yeah.
All right.
Should have bet 1,000.
Oh, I can take, well, I don't want to go back in the negative.
That's right.
We're going down.
600.
Country roads took this singer home in 1997.
It's John Denver.
When he was killed piloting a light aircraft.
John fucking Denver.
John Denver, Tyler.
Does snow have any left?
Yeah, 1,000.
We'll do that.
According to Urban Dictionary, this is someone who is easily hurt or offended by the statements
of...
Snowflake.
Dan's pick.
We're going down.
For 800, three members of this band were killed in Mississippi plane crash in 1977.
Oh fuck.
What the fuck.
Fuck, dude.
Fuck.
I know this.
How many points is it?
800.
800?
Yeah.
800.
Yeah.
So I could lose 800 and how much should I have?
1399.
What year was it?
1977.
Three members of the band were killed in that.
What is Leonard Skinner?
Yup.
Fuck.
Damn.
God damn it.
Were you going to say that?
Yeah.
And finally for a thousand, call sign for the plane that hit the North Tower of the World
Trade Center on September 11th, 2001.
Say seven North.
Which one went down first?
I'm not helping you.
I call sign for the plane that hit the North Tower of the World Trade Center on September
11th.
I know 93 is the one that went down in Pennsylvania.
No.
We're timed out.
American 11.
They know that.
All right.
Final Jeopardy.
Todd's got 5900.
Dan's got 1599 or 1399.
Lundy's got negative 1000.
I'm going to say you're going to bet it all, sir.
I don't know how I'm supposed to know these guys.
All right.
I'm going to give you a final Jeopardy question.
You got to text me your answer.
They're texting us their wager.
What was the category?
Finance.
I don't know.
I'm shivering over here.
All right.
I got your wagers.
The question.
Text me your answer.
The largest Walmart in the U.S. is located in this city.
I like it.
Klincky said Albany, New York.
That's correct.
Still that negative 1000.
Dan said Albany.
He bet 1398.
He's got up there at like 2700.
Tyler also said Albany.
He bet 100.
$6000.
Tyler wins.
I just don't know how you're supposed to know this.
So you said the category is fine.
I don't know how to put a category on that.
economics, capitalism.
Thank you for being on, sir.
Absolutely.
My pleasure.
What's that number 17?
To talk to somebody intelligent.
I'm not sure.
Hey.
That's good.
Maybe get a trivia.
So what did Jeff want to say about prison?
Oh, well, he's intelligent, too.
Oh, no.
He's just, you want me to tell this story that somebody told at one of my old workplaces
about how like prison works.
So I used to work with this guy, Frankie, who got shot a few times in the stomach doing
a drug deal.
And he said, did some time in the state penitentiary.
And he said that when the bosses would pull up to the penitentiary, the guys would go
off front and they'd take their pick for who was going to be their new bitch.
And so he said that there's this one bralic dude that was looking at the boss and saw
this scrawny little white dude come in.
He's like, that one's mine.
So the first time this dude comes in, he gets in a fight with the guy.
And he's like, yo, get the fuck off of me, bro.
Sorry to make this the last thing we talk about, bring it down to this degenerate level.
So they got in a fight.
And he's like, bro, what the fuck do you want from me?
Get the fuck away from me.
And he said within 24 hours, that little scrawny white dude was sitting on this dude's lap
playing fucking PlayStation 2.
And it just turned out, just like that.
And he wanted me to tell that story because it's just like, dude, that's how it works
in prison, bro.
You think about that.
If you're going to commit a crime or something, you decide that this is going to be like,
you want to rob a bank or something, do you think within 24 hours they get into the state
penitentiary?
You can be playing Spyro, the angry dude.
If you want to sit on some other dude's lap that's bigger than you playing PlayStation
2.
If you want to play a game that's a go-go something, think about that.
Yeah.
It's so funny.
Yeah.
It's playing PlayStation 2.
Playing PlayStation 2, yeah.
I hope it at least was a good game.
What's that?
I hope it at least was a good game.
Dude, that's probably per app of the rapper.
Damn dude, I'm doing the ugly head, dude.
You doing the ugly head.
All right.
Well, thank you for listening to Untitled Podcast.
Email us your legal questions for a lawyer.
Untitled Podcast 73 at gmail.com.
None of this is legal advice.
I'm going to for you to use some legal questions.
If we pay a return fee, is it qualified as legal advice?
Absolutely not.
I'd like us on Facebook and X and as always, be kind to yourselves.
Any time.
We out.
That was cute.
For all we know, robots have souls.
We just don't know if they do or don't.
How do you know?
Have you ever been a cyborg or a robot?
You think we were the first ones to inhabit this planet?
Yeah.
Fuck no.
This is a little dubby stack, right?
No, no.
We are jumping down this fucking rabbit hole.
Yes, we are.
There's people out there with some really dumb thoughts.
I wonder if y'all got the game.
Extended episodes.
I hope you guys love those.
Where the fuck did Stonehenge come from?
You're telling me that they didn't die and become ghosts?
They're killing all the already born babies and selling them to the Chinese.
Fuck the Green Manes.
Somewhere in China, in some base, there are super soldiers that are at least 9 or 10 feet
tall.
I'm talking about the Crescent.
They have dread, they're super soldiers.
Then they are extraterrestrials, they are aliens.
What the fuck is going on?
What is going on?
I don't know.