(invigorating music)

- [Narrator] Hello and thank you

for tuning in to
"Connections and Directions".

our University of Michigan Civil

and Environmental Engineering podcast.

My name is Michele Santillan

and I am the CEE Marketing
Communications Specialist

and host of this series.

During our podcasts, we
are featuring members

of our CEE community and how
their work reflects our mission

of engineers in service to society.

We will be highlighting
our strategic directions

and our commitment to diversity,
equity, and inclusion.

CEE's five strategic directions

are human habitat experience,

shaping resource flows,

adaptation, automation,

and smart infrastructure finance.

I'm excited to welcome Dr. Rachel O'Brien

who's coming to us

from the College of William and Mary

and whose work focuses on
characterizing aerosol particles

in organic films on indoor surfaces

by studying the chemical composition

and the products formed
during atmospheric aging.

Welcome, Dr. O'Brien

and thank you so much
for being with us today.

- Thank you so much for the opportunity.

- We're very excited about you
joining us this coming fall.

If you could, please
share with our listeners

some details about your
research area and goals

and how they fit in with
CEE's strategic directions

and our mission of engineers
in service to society.

- Yeah, well thank you so much.

And that introduction was perfect, yeah.

My research focuses on
air quality very broadly.

So that's both outdoor and indoor.

And as you mentioned, I
focus on aerosol particles.

So those are small solid
or liquid particles

and they're suspended in the air

and we've kind of all experienced them,

but we probably don't
think about them that much.

So aerosol particles, you've seen them

if you've seen a smoggy day
or pictures of smoggy cities,

or if you've seen some wildfires,

a lot of the smoke that's coming out

and that's kind of
obscuring the visibility,

those are are aerosol particles.

So we look at those and try to
understand their composition

and also their sizes and
how that composition varies

as a function of the size of the particles

cause that has some really important links

to the health impacts.

And in general, breathing
these aerosol particles in

is a bad idea.

They have some very strong
negative correlations

with human health.

So the less of them that we
have in the air, the better

from a health standpoint.

And then indoors, we think
about these particles

and we think about them also settling

onto the surfaces and
the chemical mixtures

that are kind of on these surfaces.

And so the links between those sort of

our outdoor air quality

and then our indoor air quality

where we're spending the
majority of our time.

We really spend something

like 80 to 90% of our lives indoors.

And we really want to
understand what it is

that that humans are actually breathing

when they're going about all
of their daily activities.

So the research in my group
is gonna kind of focus

on this air quality question.

And it really ties into that
human habitat experience

and thinking about what
people are exposed to

in whatever home or, you know,
at work during their commute,

what it is that they're
actually breathing.

And one of the highlights for
the human habitat experiences

is really trying to push for something

that we definitely need

which is a low carbon
and low water footprint

for our buildings.

But this is really challenging,

especially if we're thinking
about indoor air quality

and exposure for chemicals

because a lot of the ideas

that we have for trying to minimize

the amount of energy that it takes

to keep our buildings at a comfortable,

basically temperature
and relative humidity,

those are going to minimize the amount

of air exchange we have outdoors

and that air exchange and that ventilation

is really what we need

to help improve our air quality indoors.

And so these don't
necessarily go hand in hand

and it's really a challenge
in terms of engineering

to try to design and
develop basically buildings

that meet the needs that we have

in terms of of being low energy
and high energy efficiency

but that have the ventilation
and the air quality

that we really need

in order to have a nice lived experience.

So we're going to be looking at basically

what it is in the air
that people are breathing.

And also thinking about that
from a standpoint of health

and really trying to characterize
the chemical composition

and the characteristics of these particles

as a function of size in indoor spaces.

And then I'm also hoping
we could do some outreach

and work with the public
to really try to understand

basically the particles
that they're breathing in,

in different environments

and with hopefully some
sensors that can be deployed

- Specifically, what types of
sensors are you thinking about

and how specifically
would they be deployed?

- Yeah, so there's been
a range of upgrades

to sensors that have come online,

especially particle sensors,
which is really exciting.

And there's some suites
that have come out.

They don't get down into
the smallest size ranges,

but they still give you some
level of size resolution,

which is just really exciting

when you're thinking about real time data

and relatively small and
unobtrusive sensor boxes.

And so how we would be deploying them

is a really good question.

One of the things I'm interested in

is looking at what's outdoors
versus indoors, right?

So thinking about our outdoor sources

and particles that are coming indoors,

but then also thinking
about indoor sources.

So food cooking has been
found to be a major source

for aerosol particles indoors,

but we really don't know how toxic

or unhealthy those particles are

compared to the types of
particles that you're getting

coming from vehicle emissions, right?

So there's potentially
some really big differences

and we really need to
understand the particle loading

and also composition differences
between the two of them.

So some paired indoor outdoor sensors

in some buildings,

potentially some homes

if we can find some willing participants

would be kind of an ideal study design.

- I see. I see.

And then you also mentioned
doing public outreach

in addition, presumably to
asking members of the public

to participate in this study.

What are some other things

that you would like to see happen?

- Yeah. So one of the things

that I think is really interesting

is just thinking about the
types of exposures that we have

whenever we're going about our day.

And these low cost sensors are really nice

for that type of work
because they allow us

to basically have a view or perspective

on the types of particle
loading that we have

in any different environment.

And a lot of these have GPS capabilities.

So I think it would be really fun

to build some kits for
people to take around.

Maybe they can take them
on some walks in the city,

maybe they can take them
on walks around Ann Arbor,

but to really try to get a perspective

on what is actually in the
air that people are breathing

and, you know maybe we can
get them to take them indoors

in some public buildings

and see what's actually
happening indoors as well.

But a lot of exploration

and hopefully some
relatively rapid feedback

so that the people that are
using them can actually see

maybe not real time, but relatively soon

what it was that they
were being exposed to.

- And do you have a timeframe

of when you might like to
start doing this outreach?

- Yeah, that's a great question.

So a lot of things I need to
get set up in my laboratory,

and I definitely want
to recruit some students

to join me in these experiments,

but I think hoping sometime next summer

to really start trying to
develop some of the ideas

and the infrastructure
that we want to have

to be able to do these
outreach activities.

So that would be kind of my ideal goal,

would be to to start getting
some sensor boxes built

next summer.

- Okay. That's wonderful.

That's wonderful.

And I saw an article
in The Washington Post

that talked about the need
for improved ventilation

in schools especially

as we're heading back
into a new academic year.

Is there anything that you would like

to discuss on that topic?

- I mean, absolutely.

Ventilation, I mean, it's the solution.

You need to ventilate, you
need to purify the air,

you need to clean the air.

So to the extent that we can get schools

and other buildings
where people are spending

a large deal of time

to clean their air better
and improve the air quality

by filtering the air and
removing the particles.

Some of those are gonna contain COVID

and other things like bacteria in them

that we really don't
want to be breathing in.

It is ideal to be able to improve that

to the extent that we can.

And really, the limitations,

I mean I don't live there yet

so we'll see what that looks like,

but to the extent that we can,

encouraging people to
increase the air exchange rate

that they have in the rooms

and their filtration and ventilation.

Absolutely.

- And how did you become
interested in your area of study?

Was there a course or a
personal experience you had

that led you to explore your
research topic in depth?

- A little bit.

I actually never had a
course that started in it.

It's actually not that common,

I went to a small liberal arts school

to have atmospheric
chemistry focused courses.

But I did have an experience

where I actually had a
really bad chest cold.

It was actually a bronchitis,
double bronchitis infection,

but my chest was really weak.

And my parents actually came
and took me home from college

so that I could get some extra rest.

And I was asleep in the back of the car

and they were taking me through,

I lived in Kansas at the time
and I went to school in Iowa,

so they were taking me through Kansas City

and I was asleep and I remember waking up

because I just couldn't breathe.

And I looked out and I realized I was

in the industrial part of Kansas City.

And so suddenly

when we're in this industrial
part of Kansas City,

the air quality was so bad.

And I didn't know what it was then,

you know I had no idea
anything about the field,

but I just knew that I couldn't breathe.

And I thought about,

wow, I've really
sensitive lungs right now,

but that immediate
response to the environment

just had a really big impact on me.

And thinking then later about

the people that have to breathe

that type of air all day

and what that does to their lungs

and to their overall health.

And so that was kind of
one of the big things

that drew me towards it

and I realized how important it is

to be able to have a clean
breath of air in our life

and we take that for granted in many cases

but it's something that
we really need to work on

in many environments

so that everybody can live
healthy and happy lives.

- Is there anything that
you think can be done

in a heavy industrial area,
such as the one you described,

to bring almost immediate,

or at least a fairly quick turnaround

to the quality of air in that area?

- That's a great question.

In general, the best thing to do

is to try to minimize emissions.

And I know that there's a
lot of push in that area,

both in terms of decreasing
vehicle emissions

but also increase decreasing
industrial emissions.

So to the extent that we
can continue that trend,

that is the right direction to go.

- Okay.

And what classes do you
anticipate teaching initially?

And do you have ideas for
additional or new courses

that you would like to add to
the curriculum down the road?

- Yeah, so I will be teaching
at the graduate level CEE 563,

which is air quality engineering.

And then at the undergraduate level,

I'll be teaching CCE 265,

which is sustainability
and engineering principles.

And I think that's where I'm slated

to start for the first few years.

And then in the longer term,

I'd like to develop some classes,

potentially in aerosol chemistry,

as kind of a compliment

to the more aerosol physics-based
courses that we have.

And then also one potentially
in indoor air quality,

really focusing on the ideas of indoor air

and basically different building designs

in terms of the type of
chemistry that occurs indoors.

- How do you incorporate
diversity, equity, and inclusion

into your research in the
classes that you teach?

- That is a really great question.

So for me, one of the most
important aspects of that

is kind of representation

because that was really impactful for me.

So I am bisexual and I'm also non-binary

and when I went to undergraduate,

I went to undergraduate
at Cornell College,

which is a very liberal school,

and just being surrounded by

and seeing so many faculty
members that were out

and very supportive and very happy

and is basically a very
healthy environment.

That was really awakening for me

that that could kind of exist.

And so I want to bring that perspective

both to my laboratory
and also to the classroom

that we can have representation

across the board for
different types of lifestyles

and different types of choices.

And I support students basically
across the board with that.

I also have some background
from my previous work

working with some groups that
are basically student-run

that are focusing on supporting
underrepresented minorities.

So NOBCChE is the one that
I've worked with previously

and I'd be really interested

in getting involved in similar
types of groups at Michigan

and also getting involved in
some of the committee work

that the department is carrying out

to really basically learn
what's happening at Michigan

and see where I can contribute.

- Is there a general message
that you would like to convey

to our U of MCE audience?

Is there anything perhaps
that you'd like to add

that I did not ask or
address during this podcast?

- Mostly just that I am
so incredibly excited

to be joining everyone,
and I really can't wait

to become a part of
this community up there.

I'm really excited for everything

that I'm gonna get to
experience and to learn

and to get to do.

So yeah, I'm just absolutely thrilled.

- Well, we're excited to welcome you

and we look forward to
having you here on our campus

very, very soon.

(invigorating music)

Thank you for listening to
our podcast conversation.

For more information
about CEE at Michigan,

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