(classical orchestra music)

- [Michelle] Hello, and
thank you for tuning in

to Connections and Directions.

Our University of Michigan,

Civil and Environmental
Engineering Podcast.

My name is Michelle Santillan,

and I am the CEE Marketing
Communications Specialist

and host of this series.

During our podcasts, we
are featuring members

of our CEE Community,

and how their work reflects our mission

of engineers and service to society.

We will be highlighting
our strategic directions

and our commitment to
diversity equity and inclusion.

CEE's five strategic directions

are human habitat experience,
shaping resource flows,

adaptation, automation, and
smart infrastructure finance.

I'm excited to welcome
professor Sabine Loos,

who will join the Department

of Civil and Environmental
Engineering on August 28th, 2023.

She is an emerging leader

of the Natural Hazards Engineering Field,

whose pioneering research
surrounds the development

of disaster information
that centers on users,

and the human experience.

She applies Geospatial
Modeling, Risk Analysis,

and Visualization techniques

to develop tools that inform effective

and equitable disaster risk
reduction and recovery.

Through the lens of data,
her work bridges engineering

with the natural and social sciences

to support vulnerable communities,

both domestically and in the global South.

Between now and August, 2023,

Dr. Loos will be a United
States Geological Survey

Mendenhall Fellow in collaboration

with the Natural Hazard Center

at the University of Colorado Boulder,

developing methods for socially
equitable risk assessments.

Welcome, Dr. Loos, and thank
you for being with us today.

- [Sabine] Hi, Michelle. Thank you so much

for having me here today.

- [Michelle] Well, we're excited

that you'll be joining us next year,

and we wanted to find out, if you could,

please share with our listeners,

some details about your
research area and goals,

and how they align with
CEE's Strategic Directions

and our mission of engineers
and service to society?

- [Sabine] Sure. Yeah. I'd be happy to.

I don't know how much I can add,

based on that wonderful introduction,

but maybe I'll give a little
bit of a personal flare here.

Yeah, like you said,

generally, my research is

in the natural hazards and disaster space.

So, really this is a field
that's not just engineering,

but it's quite unique.

It's got people from the social sciences,

the earth sciences, and I kind of work,

to bring in, bridge
engineering with those fields.

And what I like to say is
that I'm a Disaster Analyst,

and our lab will be a growing
group of disaster analysts.

And so, like you mentioned
in the intro, really,

that covers a wide range of things.

So, we do a lot of really
nitty gritty data analytics,

and predictive modeling, usually
using geospatial data sets.

But, with all of that
very technical modeling,

it really comes down to the people, right?

So, who is affected that we're
representing in those models

and who is using the
information that we produce?

And so, we try to supplement
all of that modeling

with an understanding of the people

by mixing the modeling with
other forms of knowledge

from qualitative interviews
or focus groups, or surveys.

Yeah, I guess an example of that would be,

back during my PhD, we developed a way

to rapidly estimate building damage

using a mix of data from remote
sensing or crowdsourcing,

and to produce that
after a disaster occurs.

But, before we designed that model,

what we did was we actually
interviewed the folks

that might use this information

very rapidly after an
earthquake would occur

to see what their
informational needs were,

so we could then design our
systems for them in mind.

We also kind of built off that,

and found out that what people need

is not only information
on building damage,

but also where the populations are

that are expected to
face some real obstacles

during the recovery after an event.

So, we built additional models to estimate

that key piece of information.

And so, it's just kind of a nice mix

of modeling and working with the people

that would be using those models.

So, I think that gets at your
first part of the question.

But, maybe remind me the
second part of the question,

it's about our strategic
direction, and engineers,

and service to society?
- Yes.

So, if you were looking at
CEE Strategic Directions,

which one, or several of them,

would you say that your area
of specialization aligns with?

- [Sabine] Yeah, I think, honestly,

it kind of aligns with a lot
of them across the board,

because we work with disasters.

There's a lot of adaptation work,

but also, like I said,
we're working with people.

So, they try and incorporate
the human habitat experience

into our work.

But, I think, kind of this broad question

of engineers and service to society,

I think that's a really good
one, and a really good goal.

I think it's tricky, right?

And I think,

Civil Engineers, we're
trained to serve the public,

and we've been trained to do that

for years and years and years.

We have a code of ethics.

It's really common for us to get licensed

after we finish college.

And, that's not really a thing
in other engineering fields.

And I think that's why, Civil
and Environmental Engineering

is very, very neat, but it's this question

of what is the public?

And, what I think and I know

is that there's no such
thing as the general public.

And I think, as engineers,
we need to think about

what our role has been in
creating these technical systems

that have, historically,
prioritized certain groups

of the public over others.

So for example, just in my space,

disaster modeling techniques
really were rooted

in supporting insurance, right?

And insurance is great.

It's a great resource to help
folks recover from a disaster,

but a lot of time, at
least for earthquakes,

those who can afford insurance
are those who already

have the resources to be able to adapt,

and recover themselves.

And so, how do we consider
and acknowledge these things

when we're developing
our technical systems,

so that we prioritize those
who are most vulnerable?

So, the same thing I think can be applied

to other areas of Civil and
Environmental Engineering.

It's not just within the
natural hazard space.

For example, what kinds of
buildings and structures

are we teaching students to value?

What are we learning about?

We're replacing our
transportation networks,

and what neighborhoods they're in?

So, I think really, our
lab will specifically come

at the research that we
do with this equity lens,

trying to think about who are we including

when we design our research?

What is our research prioritizing?

And, making sure that we
reflect on the groups,

and prioritize those who have
been historically overlooked

in our systems.

- [Michelle] And, I think your response

is an excellent answer to
one of my other questions

that I was going to ask you.

And, that is how you
incorporate diversity equity

and inclusion, throughout your research

and in the courses that
you'll be teaching?

And, so I think, you did a
great job of highlighting that.

Is there anything you would like to add

to address DEI in either your research

and/or the classes you anticipate
teaching down the road?

- [Sabine] Yeah, I think
that's a really good question.

And, yeah, hopefully it's obvious

that our research and our teaching,

I really want to center diversity,

equity, inclusion, and justice,

because as you can tell, my PhD research

was really focused on developing
these models of impact

that support more equitable
decisions later on.

And now at USGS, we're kind of applying

those principles to the systems
that we produce globally.

But, at Michigan, it'll be
coming down to the teaching,

and the research there.

And, I think that can be
broken down into two things,

it's the content and the process.

So, the content being,
what are we teaching?

What's the subject matter in our classes?

And, I'm really of the
mind that you can learn

these very technical skills,

like statistics and probability,

at the same time as looking

at these broader societal problems

that we as engineers are
increasingly going to face.

So, that one example I briefly mentioned,

simply by overlaying traffic
networks with census data,

you can see which
neighborhoods are cut off,

and the demographics
of those neighborhoods.

And, that's actually research being done

by a dear colleague, Rohan Aris.

But also, there's just kind of,

this really super low hanging fruit

of taking a step back and
looking at what content

is being represented in our coursework.

So, we can use these tools
to check the bibliographies

of our papers or our syllabi,

and see, okay, what's
the gender balance here?

Who are we representing?

If we're talking about, maybe inequities

in disasters after the Nepal earthquake,

which is where I worked,

are we representing papers
that have authors from Nepal?

There's very simple things that we can do

to improve our coursework,

and make it more
representative and diverse.

But then, I think in terms
of inclusion and equity,

it comes to the process.

So, with classrooms, I think
the very traditional structure

is a professor teaches at the front,

and then the students listen.

And, in that structure,

some people are naturally
more outspoken than others,

and that's totally fine,
but in that setting,

those folks' opinions, they
make it all the way back

to the instructor.

And so, what I try to do is break up

that traditional structure
with other opportunities

for other people, who
might speak and contribute

their opinions in different ways,

whether that be building
smaller group discussions

and exercises, or really making space

for these one-on-one meetings.

And, I think in the
classroom, we can do that.

I think it's really
important to do that process

with our research, as well.

So, thinking about who are
included again in our design

of our research.

And so, for example, again,

in Nepal, where I worked a lot,

we had researchers from
all around the world,

but, importantly, we had
researchers in Nepal,

and we had different backgrounds and ages,

and genders and disciplines.

So, again, we had diversity,

but we tried to make it an inclusive space

by making that research group
as welcoming as possible.

We'd have group reflections

to take a look at our power dynamics

that come with having all
of these different people

with different experiences.

And so, I wouldn't say that it's perfect,

we're all learning and growing,

but I think, I really try to strive

to bring all of this into the classroom,

into the research process,

and really build that welcoming community.

And so, I'm really hoping to do that,

one once I'm at Michigan,

and kind of build that process,
and that culture there.

And, of course, that
already exists, as well,

but just further build it.

- [Michelle] How did you become interested

in this particular area of
research that you've pursued?

And, was there a course that you took,

somewhere in school or
personal experience you had

that led you down this path?

- [Sabine] Yeah.

Yeah. Thanks, Michelle.

I think I usually have like
a very cookie cutter response

to this and like go
back to one experience.

But, if I'm really being honest here,

it's a series of many experiences

that have built up and
got me into in this space.

And, I think, those
experiences can come down to

like this mix of this general vision

that I had of what I wanted
to do with my career.

And, to be honest, a bit of luck, right?

Yeah, I'm an engineer, but
I also identify as a woman,

I identify from being
from an immigrant family.

And, I think, all of these
intersecting identities

really shaped, kind of, the values

that I had coming into college,

and thinking about what I
wanted to do with my career.

And, what I wanted to do then,

was use engineering to help people.

And so, that's why I
chose civil engineering.

And I think that's why a lot of people

with technical skills,

end up in civil and
environmental engineering

over all of the other
disciplines in engineering.

And, I was really excited
and I was taking all

of these classes in undergrad.

And, I was actually
having a really hard time

finding those values I had
represented in my classes.

We weren't talking about, let's say,

how to work with communities

to design a community center
in their neighborhoods,

or just thinking about the bigger picture

around the engineering systems

that we were learning how to
design or calculate or analyze.

And so, yeah.

I mean, honestly, I think
this is really important,

because as I've gotten to be
in this space more and more,

and meet more people and read more,

I've found that a lot of
women and people of color

don't continue in engineering,

because of this fact that they're

not finding their values
represented in the work.

And, I've had moments myself,

where I reconsidered even whether
I should be in this field.

But, I will say what kept me going

is I found little pockets of engineering

that do hold those values.

And so, in undergrad, it was the folks

who were doing humanitarian engineering.

And in grad school, I found
my home with engineers,

who think about natural
hazards and disasters.

And, that's because,

it is really this
inflection point in time,

where engineers are forced to think about,

and reflect on the
implications of our designs,

and our models and how they affect people.

And honestly, I found that home,

not with just the engineers
who think about that,

but with all of the other disciplines,

you think about natural hazards, as well.

And, a big part of it
was being lucky enough

to have just a few mentors,

who supported kind of
this vision along the way.

And so, I'm not gonna lie.

I think, a lot of these
opportunities came up,

because of this vision I had of wanting

to pursue engineering for,
let's say, the global good.

And also, I was in the right
place at the right time

for a lot of it.

It was a combination of drive, luck,

and some sort of privilege to be in spaces

to receive some of these opportunities.

I think with all of that,

that's why I really
wanted to be a professor,

and I'm hopeful I can share
some of the opportunities

that I received with my
students at Michigan.

- [Michelle] Oh, as you
cited in your response

about having found those
little pockets or communities,

if you would, during a
time in your undergrad,

and in your graduate studies,

what classes, then, do
you anticipate teaching,

initially, here at UN CEE?

And do you have ideas
for additional courses

that you would like to see incorporated

into the curriculum as
moving into future years?

- [Sabine] Yeah.

I do know what class I will be teaching

right when I get there.

So, I'll be taking on CEE 373,

which is the Statistical Methods course.

And, I'm pretty excited
about it, honestly.

I think, in this day and age,

it's really important,
even if you don't do

like data modeling, and machine learning,

and all of this stuff,
it's really important

to become more and more data literate,

and to be able to read
and understand data.

And so, I think when it's taught well,

it can be a real tool for the
rest of any engineer's life.

So, I'm excited to take that course on,

at the undergrad level.

And, I think, at the grad level,

I'm still kind of playing
around with a few ideas,

and I'd love to learn what the students

think would be exciting and useful.

And so, one of those ideas
is doing a spatial analysis

and statistics class.

So, a lot of, the kind
of this regional work

requires spatial data, whether
it's be from the census,

or modeling or building footprints are,

combining all of that, and
then also analyzing them.

And so, I think there's
ways to work with that data.

And, sometimes it exists in
civil engineering department,

sometimes it doesn't,

but I think it would be
really cool to bring that in

to the CEE Department.

And, the other idea I had was,

kind of, this disaster risk

and vulnerability analysis class.

So, it's a class that looks

at how do you model natural
hazard risk and vulnerability,

but also, there's this way of modeling

that's very quantitative,
like I mentioned,

from the engineering.

But, there's also these other definitions

of vulnerability that come
from the social sciences,

sociology, and geography.

And, trying to merge these
multiple understandings,

so as engineers go into analyzing

and modeling disaster
risk, they understand

there's other ways to
view it as a concept.

But, yeah, those are
just a couple of ideas.

I think, really, with the classes,

I wanna kind of teach, like I
said, these technical skills,

but also supplement it
with other important things

that come along.

So, really emphasizing the
importance of communication,

using new ways of communicating,
such as visualization

or kind of using these as a moment

to have project based courses,

where we can work with
communities or end users

that might need us or in analysis,

because, once you finish
classes in college,

most things will be about projects,

rather than exams in a
finite amount of period.

So, yeah. Those are
just a couple of ideas.

But, I'm looking for feedback
on what what everyone thinks

might be most exciting and useful.

- [Michelle] Is there
a general final message

you would like to convey
to our CEE audience,

before we end today's podcast?

- [Sabine] I think, maybe,
if it's not super clear

from all of my previous responses,

generally, as the researcher
as a future professor,

as a person, I care about
creating this culture,

that is really welcoming, and
reflective, and inquisitive.

And, the reason is I want
people to feel comfortable

to share their thoughts and make mistakes,

and to work with each other,

because, I think, I found
that's kind of the best way

that we can learn and we can innovate.

And so, I think in this podcast,

it makes it seem like I have
a bunch of answers, right?

And I don't, and I'm really
excited to have this community

in the CEE Department and to
learn and grow with everyone,

the students, the staff,
and faculty there.

So, yeah. I think just the
kind of general conveying

of my excitement to join in a year.

And so, yeah.

Thank you, Michelle, for inviting
me to be on this podcast.

- [Michelle] You're welcome.

And again, we look
forward to seeing you here

in Ann Arbor in August of 2023.

(classical orchestra music)

Thank you for listening to
our podcast conversation.

For more information
about CEE at Michigan,

please visit our website at cee.umich.edu.

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