Welcome to Students Incorporated, a podcast where we dive into relevant topics and issues
related to the world of business, technology, education, and design.
I'm your host, Mr. Jason.
Episodes include student conversations, interviews with thought leaders, and inspirational stories
with an international flavor.
This podcast is created and produced with the help of students from the International
Community School of Bangkok.
In today's episode, we'll be interviewing a psychology and sociology teacher, Mrs. Julia.
We'll be talking about psychology and some topics such as discrimination, bias, and prejudice.
Then, in the second segment, we'll be sharing a couple top 10 lists you won't want to miss.
Stay tuned.
Okay, now onto our quote of the day and our headline news.
The human mind is not a very logical or consistent place.
Most people, given the choice to face a hideous or terrifying truth or, to conveniently avoid
it, choose a convenience and piece of normality.
That doesn't make them strong or weak people, or good or bad people.
It just makes them people.
This was said by Jim Butcher.
As humans, we are all subjected to bias, we make mistakes, and that's okay.
What matters is what we learn from our mistakes and strive to become a better person as a
whole.
And having that mindset already takes a lot of courage.
So if you do, good job.
Our first news headline comes from the company Mattel, creator of the iconic Barbie doll.
It revealed its first Barbie doll representing a person with Down syndrome.
Mattel worked with the National Down Syndrome Society to create the doll and ensure its
accuracy.
Along with portraying physical characteristics of a person with Down syndrome, the doll's
clothes and accessories also carry special meaning.
Now for news that is closer to home.
A heat wave is sweeping across Asia and is breaking temperature records.
In Bangkok, the heat index was forecasted to reach 50.2 degrees Celsius in the Bangna
area.
The temperature might even reach 52.3 degrees Celsius.
To add to this environmental problem, pollution levels are rising, especially in Chiang Mai.
Smoke from forest fires and burning crops are only increasing pollution.
Our final news headline is about the chain bad and beyond.
The business is closing an additional 87 stores as the retailer tries to consolidate its assets
before possible bankruptcy filing.
The store closures have been confirmed by the company.
The company could file for bankruptcy soon this week.
Thank you for the quote and the headline news.
Now let's jump into the first part of our episode.
Welcome to the podcast, Miss Julia.
We're glad you can join us today.
Lion will start us off with our first question.
Can you please introduce yourself and tell us how many years you have been teaching at
ICS?
Sure.
My name is Mrs. Julia and I've been teaching at ICS for one year and I teach AP Psychology
and Sociology.
Our next question is, since you teach both psychology and sociology, can you tell us
what the differences between the two are?
They're very much interrelated.
Psychology is more of a social science that concentrates on the thoughts and behaviors
of individual people and sociology studies more the thoughts and behaviors of a group
of people.
Like for example, if we were going to study homelessness, we might study maybe the mental
disorders that led somebody to be homeless.
And in sociology, we would study what societal forces have allowed someone become homeless
in the first place.
So they work hand in hand, but they're very different.
Since this is technically a business podcast, we have a business oriented question for you.
What are some of your thoughts on employers requiring their employees to take personality
tests sometimes even before going through the entire hiring process?
That's a great question, Lyon.
And if you remember from AP Psych, we did talk about this and how we would feel if a
lot of the hiring process were based on personality tests.
I do think there's a place for it.
I think it has to be the right test.
I think a lot of you guys are maybe familiar with tests like Myers-Briggs, right?
You guys know your letters and things like that.
But actually, if you look up the studies on the company that actually made the Myers-Briggs,
they themselves would say that test isn't so great for actual hiring, but it'd be great
for like team building and being able to assess which team members would work well together.
There are certain tests in that same company.
There's one called the California Psychological Inventory that does help to diagnose people's
strengths and weaknesses.
And let's say a company has like an accounting side and a marketing side.
If you're very flexible and you're very extroverted, maybe the marketing would be better for somebody
versus somebody who's in accounting who would like things to be quite rigid.
And so I do think there is a place for it.
I don't think it should be the sole indicator for hiring.
And I do think that people who decide to use it need to be properly trained.
They can't just administer it and kind of use it as a one sole factor.
Here's a follow-up question.
Are there any personality tests that are more accurate than others?
Actually, there's some research that suggests the big five trait inventory.
You guys would know that one.
Ocean, that's right.
And your different scores on the OCEAN and blind, you can tell us what those mean since
you're a AP Psych Pro now.
And also the MMPI, which is another personality inventory that statistically have shown to
be a little bit more accurate than tests like the Enneagram or the Myers-Briggs just because
Myers-Briggs and Enneagram a little bit more of a personality test versus the MMPI and
the big five trait.
They're nuanced trait inventory.
So there's different scales and different ratings.
You can score high or low on different parts of the big trait theory, which helps people
to be able to gather more information from the test.
Let's shift gears and discuss some more layered topics that affect business and education.
Discrimination, prejudice and bias are terms that are used frequently, especially within
many of the world's political arenas.
Could you help explain some of the differences between these terms?
That's a great question.
I think that's a very hot topic in our current world situation right now.
Okay, so maybe we can just define some terms.
Bias is really just a tendency to believe that some people or ideas are better than
others and it usually leads in some sort of behavior like treating people unfairly or
unequally.
Prejudice is an emotional bias.
Discrimination is a behavioral bias and stereotypes is like a cognitive bias.
You wanted to break it down in those three simple ways.
A follow-up would be what is the difference between bias and preference?
And is this something everyone in the world carries around with them?
We actually talked about this in sociology today.
Preference is just an individual's personal leanings.
Maybe a lion likes chocolate and you like strawberry ice cream, right?
And the preferences don't necessarily lead to any sort of bias behavior, but sometimes
they can.
For instance, today in sociology, we took this implicit bias test on skin color and
uncovering unconscious bias that really all of us have.
And it was interesting to see how our preferences can lead to bias.
So even though preferences don't necessarily indicate bias, a lot of times if they're
regarding people or ideas, they can lead to bias.
So it's a little bit different.
Thank you, Mrs. Julia.
Now, moving to a larger global perspective, what are some ways regions, nations, and even
communities can stand together to help reduce discriminatory actions and prejudice attitudes?
Or is it just a lost cause?
Oh, I definitely hope it's not a lost cause, right?
You guys are the future generation right here, right?
You guys have the keys to shaping your future society.
So I definitely don't think it's a lost cause.
But I think it's a great question because I think coming off of the pandemic, we saw
it with COVID, right?
People here in Thailand were blaming the foreigners for bringing COVID here and people in America
were blaming the Asians for bringing COVID there.
And so this kind of systemic blaming is inherent in all of us, right?
And I think what is really important for us to realize that it's not a cultural thing,
but we are all biased, Westerners are biased, Asians are biased, right?
People from Eastern cultures.
And I think what was really important is when this started to happen here and even the states,
there was this outcry on social media that, no, this is not something that we stand for.
And we talk about this in sociology about how deviance actually helps us to define boundaries,
right?
And in some sense, when we deviate from the norm of being racist or being discriminatory,
we're saying this is not something that we as a culture stand for.
And so I think not everybody, I mean, if you don't use your social media for that platform,
that's your own personal decision.
But I do think that when people use their platforms in their own individual ways, it's
their voice.
And it's important that we use that voice to support these kinds of causes and empower
one another to be able to properly communicate what our true ideals are, even if it's different
than the mainstream culture.
Putting this down to our communities, local schools, businesses, and even local governments,
what are things you think we can do as a community to reduce discrimination and prejudice?
That's another good question.
And sometimes it can feel like a really big global issue, right?
And it can feel like something that's a little bit too big for all of us.
But you know, like even you two sitting here about to go to college, both of you next year,
and whatever spheres of influence you guys are in, whether it be business or engine,
financial engineering, you guys will make choices that will represent the future of
society.
And you guys have a choice whether to continue with the precedent set before you or to deviate,
right?
Like if you, let's talk about discrimination and bias.
I know a lot of senior girls, I don't know if you were part of that, Linda, the skin
tone matters, were you part of that?
That raising awareness in Asian cultures about all skin tones are beautiful, right?
If you're in marketing, what will you choose to represent beauty?
Is it going to be the fair skinned, light complexion person?
Or is it going to be somebody who, a wide representation of different skin tones, different
body types, different ages, different ethnicities.
And when you make those choices, you're raising awareness and you're allowing even like we
talk about psychology, mere exposure effects, seeing diverse people represented in pop culture
as being beautiful allows society to change your thinking.
And so I think that's really important for you guys to think about as you guys go in
because it can feel like you're going against the current, you know, like when you're the
new freshmen in school or even the new apprentice at your job.
But being able to hold on to the ideals, I think that's really important.
And even like if you guys start to be part of your companies and they do things like
professional development, like doing things like are we unconsciously biased, right?
And just being aware of how we all have those seeds and how can we grow in that and continuing
in those conversations and reading books and being open to our friends that are different
than us.
Like those kinds of conversations are really important for us to continue to have.
So we have this life-long process of learning.
I think that's what's going to really help our local communities.
Thank you so much for sharing some of your thoughts about this very important and impactful
topic.
Now for our final question, we'd like to ask what advice would you give the average student
who is graduating and heading off to university or to start a career if they encounter some
of these negative actions or attitudes in the people around them?
I think it's interesting for, you know, you guys both sitting here, you guys are both
Asian and you've grown up maybe in Asian culture.
I am Asian-American, so I grew up Asian in a very Caucasian culture.
And so I grew up as a minority.
And I don't know if you guys have ever grown up where you were the obvious minority, but
maybe when you guys go to college, you guys will possibly be like that.
And you'll encounter people who are not from this ICS community, who are not in this international
kind of environment.
And you might encounter some ideals that were very different and maybe shocking.
And I think one thing to really remember is ignorance doesn't always come from a place
of malice.
Sometimes ignorance just comes from ignorance and being unaware.
And so when you are maybe encountering a moment of maybe a racial slur or somebody being ignorant
or somebody being unkind, try to engage and not react.
I think you could be the first person that could not, I don't want to say educate, but
be a point of contact and point of reference and a point of relationship.
And I think that I'm not trying to belittle the hurt that can come from being prejudiced
and having prejudiced attitudes and actions shown to you, but be the bigger person and
engage in, try to allow that to be a learning opportunity for the other person too.
I think you guys being in an international setting, you have a gift that a lot of people
don't have.
So yeah, as you guys go out into the wider world, understand that that will happen and
then it's hurtful.
We're not trying to belittle that, but use it as an opportunity.
Thank you, Miss Julia, for that great advice and insight.
And with that, we'll be right back after a short PSA.
We are back with part two, where we are going to share a few top 10 lists that are a little
more lighthearted in nature.
The first top 10 list is titled the top 10 things a patient should not say to a therapist.
And the second top 10 list is titled the top 10 things a therapist should not say to a
patient.
Let's get in.
Number one, the first thing you shouldn't say to a psychologist or a therapist is, can
you just tell me what's wrong with me already?
Your therapist does not want to jump to any quick conclusions about what issues you may
be struggling with.
This is a process that takes time and requires communication, trust, and some vulnerability.
Moving on to number two, I don't believe in therapy or psychology.
You could give the therapist a chance before stating that you don't believe in it.
We have doctors for our physical health.
It's important we have doctors for our mental health and emotional health as well.
The third thing you should not say to a therapist is, you're just trying to make me feel crazy.
Now, I don't think that is what the mental health professional is trying to do.
They're here to help, not to categorize or label you.
Number four is, I'm not like your other patients.
Let's not assume anything yet.
We like to think that we're unique and special, but there are probably others who struggle
with some of the same things.
And number five is, are you analyzing me right now?
They're not analyzing or judging you.
They're there to help you to listen and to make helpful suggestions.
And number six is, I don't need therapy.
I can handle it on my own.
Well, it's not bad to ask for help or advice when dealing with your mental and emotional
health.
Sometimes just talking to someone about it will help to alleviate the stress and anxiety.
Number seven is, you're not helping me at all.
Sometimes you just need to learn to be patient and trust the process.
Healing can take time.
Number eight, I really know what you're going to say.
Not every therapist thinks or practices their profession the same way.
Be open to hearing new advice and suggestions.
Number nine is, I don't want to talk about my feelings.
Maybe being a little vulnerable in this area will help you get past some of the issues
you may be experiencing.
Be brave and share what's on your mind.
Number 10, the last one, I don't have any problems.
I'm just here because someone else told me to come.
It's possible that someone else you're referring to loves and cares about you and wants to
see you heal and improve.
And there you have it, the top 10 things a patient should not say to a therapist.
Okay, moving on to our second list.
This list is called the top 10 things a therapist should not say to a patient.
First on this list of things a therapist should not say to their patient is, I don't have
time to listen to this right now.
Technically, this is the job of a professional therapist is to listen and listen a lot.
If listening is not your thing, then you are in the wrong profession.
The second thing a therapist should not say to a patient is, you're not trying hard enough.
Ouch.
Healing can take time and sometimes the ability to understand how hard a person is trying
is not very clear from the outside.
Celebrate the small things and be patient.
And number three is, I don't think you really have any problems.
A person's emotional and mental state can be a mystery.
So validation can help and like the previous statement, patients and listening are sometimes
the best therapy.
The fourth one is, just get over it and move on.
This is probably the most shallow advice that can be thrown out there to someone.
Sometimes it takes a while to get over something.
Let the process happen and help them along the way.
And number five is, I have another client who had it much worse than you.
Invalidation is the opposite of what you're supposed to do in this situation.
Next on the list is number six.
It is, your problems aren't that serious compared to others I've seen.
Again, invalidating another person's concern only makes it worse.
What may seem small to you may seem quite large to them.
And number seven is, I can't help you if you don't want to help yourself.
This may be true, but this statement does not communicate a lot of empathy and compassion.
Number eight is, you're just making excuses.
Again, this may be true as well, however, it would be good to find out the why behind
your excuses instead of just throwing out this statement.
And number nine is, you're just being irrational.
This could come across as an insult or communicate you just don't care, which will break trust
and your credibility.
Be careful with statements like this.
And finally, number 10 is, I'm the expert, you need to listen to me.
True you may be considered an expert as this is your profession, but therapists are also
humans so stay humble and teachable as well.
Sometimes therapists can be wrong as well.
And with that final list item, we have run out of time.
We all hope you enjoyed our top 10 list and we'd like to give a special thanks to our
guest Mrs. Julia for providing us with some great insight into the world of psychology
and sociology and for giving us all great advice about how to avoid and deal with prejudice,
bias and discrimination.
Our next episode will feature several special guests who will be sharing with us their experiences
that span back many years here at our school.
You may learn a few things you have never heard before, so stay tuned as we look back
and celebrate our school's 30th year anniversary.
This podcast would not be possible without the hard work and support of our international
student production team.
All music and sound effects are courtesy of Pixabay.com, a vibrant community of creatives
sharing copyright free images, videos and music.
And we are signing off until next time.
We are Students Incorporated because your voice matters.