Welcome to Students Incorporated, a podcast where we dive into relevant topics and issues
related to the world of business, technology, education, and design.
I'm your host, Mr. Jason.
Episodes include student conversations, interviews with thought leaders, and inspirational stories
with an international flavor.
This podcast is created and produced with the help of students from the International
Community School of Bangkok.
In today's episode, we'll be interviewing a local celebrity, Mr. Jonas Andersen.
We'll be discussing his career and what it's like to be in the entertainment industry.
But first, let's hear the quote of the day and get some headline news.
Our quote of the day comes from our celebrity guest.
He says,
Fame and acclaim are fickle.
If we measure success by popularity and public affection, we will be disappointed.
Focus on having a passion for excellence.
This is how we can make a difference and have a lasting impact.
These are very wise words and great advice from Mr. Jonas.
Now, let's hear our headline news.
SpaceX's Starship, which was the most powerful rocket built, launched in South Texas but
exploded midair.
This was the rocket's first test flight.
The super-heavy rocket booster was scheduled to separate from the spacecraft after two
and a half minutes.
But once the flight reached 39 kilometers above the ground, it exploded.
The SpaceX team will continue to review the data and solve the problem before their next
flight test.
A lion has been spotted in Chad's Sina Aura National Park.
Lions have not been seen there since 2004 and were believed to be extinct until this
sighting.
There are fewer than 1,000 northern lions in West and Central Africa.
The region witnessed a period of poaching around a decade ago, but the governments of
Cameroon and Chad have committed to conservation.
Our final headline news is related to news company BuzzFeed News, which had launched
in 2012, is shutting down.
This is because of a 15% workforce reduction across teams.
Due to these layoffs, BuzzFeed News can no longer be funded.
BuzzFeed will have a single news brand health post, which BuzzFeed acquired in 2020.
Thank you for the quote and headline news.
Let's begin the first part of our interview with Mr. Jonas Andersson, a local celebrity
here in Thailand.
Our first question is, how did you become Jonas Andersson?
Is that your stage name?
Okay.
Well, hello everyone.
This is Jonas here.
This is an interesting story actually, because my heritage is Swedish.
So I'm from Sweden and we pronounce things a little bit differently in Sweden from an
English or certainly other parts of the world.
So my name, my surname is actually Vod and Holm, which written in English or American
pronunciation would be Waddenholm or Wade in Holm or something like that.
And so Waddenholm didn't work real great in Thailand.
It would be like Waddenholm.
So next up presenting, Jonas Waddenholm somehow just didn't have the right ring.
So it was not a very involved process coming up with a stage name.
It's just like, okay, I like the name Andrew and I need something Swedish.
So it's just going to be Andersson.
And that was the extent of it.
And that stuck with me.
I guess I didn't expect it to stick so long.
Our next question is more lighthearted.
Who is the most famous person you have in your contacts or that you have ever met in
person?
I'm happy that I heard about this question in advance because it's a tough one.
I'll just go with a dual and surf.
So the most famous person I ever met, Thais will know him.
His name is Nadet.
So Nadet is like a major A-lister actor, actually presently very, very famous.
He's not a singer.
He's an actor.
But even if you're not Thai, if you've been spending any time in Bangkok, you will have
seen him on billboards or here or there.
So he's a, he's a big, big actor.
And I actually had a chance to sit down with him and have a, have a meal.
I wasn't with him one-on-one, but it was a small group.
So that was an interesting experience.
And the most unexpected place I met another huge, huge celebrity in Thailand who is an
artist from the nineties was in a supermarket.
So not in my stage place.
But in that case, we just bumped into each other.
And of course we both knew each other.
So we just said, and said hello.
An interesting thing about that story is that Darren was actually with me that day and Darren
remembered him from billboards and stuff.
It's like, dad, dad, look at that.
Isn't that this guy we saw him on the, oh yeah.
Yeah.
So I walked over and said hi.
And I said, you know, my, my son's here would like to take a photo with you.
But in my contacts, the biggest name artists that I have in my contacts is at Carabao's.
So Carabao is a rock Thai rock band.
They're living legends.
It's a huge, huge band.
And at is like, yeah, one of the biggest selling artists of all time in Thailand.
So moving on to your early career, what was it like going on tour and what countries did
you visit?
Well, actually my, my career in music started out very local.
I actually had zero expectations that I would tour internationally whatsoever.
So in the first year after launching my first album, it was really grueling travel.
I spent most of my life in vans on the road.
In fact, I think there's, there was a month where I only slept in my own bed for like
two nights or something that whole month out of the 31 days.
So that was pretty grueling.
We were pretty much just on the road for a few months.
It's seasonal.
So it's basically like in Thailand for this type of music, it's after the end of raining
season through the new year up to about the water festival or songkran.
So during that period in the first year, it was, it was pretty full time on the road.
However, as it turns out, I ended up touring abroad a bit, not in the traditional sense.
It wasn't like go on tour for three months or six months, but it was on trips because
there's a big Thai community in the U S for example.
So I did quite a bit of touring in major cities of the U S, especially LA where the biggest
Thai community is, but also Houston, New York, Chicago, all these big cities.
And that wasn't something I expected to happen.
For our next question, we'd love to know what were some of your favorite songs you produced
and performed and do you have a favorite album?
So whenever I get the favorites question, uh, the challenge with that is that generally
speaking my favorite songs or favorite records have not been the most famous ones.
Uh, like I've had some relatively big hits and of course I love all of the songs and
the process and everything.
Probably looking back, one of my biggest hits was actually about 10 years ago when I released
this tongue twister song, which was quite big in YouTube.
And my first album was as far as actual CD sales or album sales was the best selling
album. And it was also very big on the charts.
At the time it was radio.
It was no, no views or streams or anything like that.
That album charted on the radio all over the country.
So I would say that that was my favorite because it was kind of my initiation and my baptism
by fire into the whole thing.
As far as favorite songs, usually they've been special songs that I've produced for
a special purpose.
Like for example, when his majesty King Rama the nine passed away, I wrote a song and produced
a song in English.
It was a legacy song.
It was to celebrate his life, his accomplishments.
And I really liked that song.
I liked that project.
It felt very personal to me and the whole experience was quite personal.
And actually just last year I wrote and produced a song also in English, uh, which was a tribute
to people with Down syndrome.
I think my favorite songs have been the songs with more of a story.
It's not just about entertainment, but it's, it's using music as the medium to communicate.
But in both of those cases, those were not at all my most famous or most successful songs.
Moving on to the today, what's it like trying to balance your personal life and professional
life while having music on the side?
Okay.
Well, it's always been a bit of a juggling act with having a personal life.
You need a safe space.
You need to retreat from the public eye.
And I know that this is a challenge for many entertainers, especially if you become quote
unquote a celebrity, you know, then it's a challenge to kind of, uh, not make that identify
you too much.
Because if you allow fame to identify you as a person, then you're in a constant roller
coaster ride because the nature of fame is it's up and down.
Like you'll have these peaks where like everyone is singing your praises and everyone's, you
know, you know, not falling at your feet, but you, you get all the laurels and the,
and the, and the acclaim and the news media and all this stuff.
And then you'll just have a time where it's just gone.
It's just like dead and dry.
So if you tie yourself to that too much, it's very emotionally stressful and it can be even
psychologically damaging.
So, so I always needed to have a kind of roots and I always had to have somewhere to escape
to where I could just be another guy, you know, and thankfully having a family allowed
that because your kids can be your biggest fans, but also your biggest critics, right?
And they definitely are not going to treat you like a celebrity.
They're going to bring you down to earth.
And I actually really embraced that because I felt like that was my safe space and that
was my, my sort of ballast in life.
Looking back again, what have been some of your favorite moments of your career?
Some of my favorite moments have been the unusual experiences that this whole thing
has brought about in my life.
Like things I never expected to happen because of the unique dynamic of a, of a white guy
in Thai, they call it Phu Lung, right?
A white person who's the most unlikely person to be found in the local Thai country music
scene.
And, you know, having me be there allowed me to tell my story in rather unusual places.
So early on in my career, I actually got interviewed by Time Magazine Asia.
So nowadays, time is probably not that major of a thing, but back then this was really
huge and it wasn't time USA.
So it's not maybe quite at the level of Time's person of the year or anything like that,
but time anything is, was, was huge, you know, and I also actually appeared on CNN and some
of the big news outlets at the time, which more than making me feel special or important
actually made me feel like, okay, well, this is an amazing opportunity and responsibility
more to, to kind of present things in a wholesome way and, and a meaningful way, something that
brings it more about exchange, about, about cultural connection between cultures.
And also at one point I was invited to perform at a theater, which happens to be the oldest
theater in Sweden, my birthplace.
So the thing about that is that this is a stage that Thai acts don't go to perform,
you know, it was a theater, which in the present day actually does feature more diverse performances
and so on, but they actually hadn't had a Thai act of any kind in this theater.
And then somehow through some series of events, they kind of connected with me and they said,
oh, we'd love to have you be the sort of representative for Thai culture in Sweden in this 150 year
old theater.
So it was very surreal.
And actually that was the only time I got to tour outside Thailand with a full entourage
of musicians and dancers in this place.
And not because we were paid loads of money, but because the situation allowed for that.
And in fact, the theater said, uh, your normal gig is not going to work here.
Because normally when I tour just for practical reasons, I would use backing tracks and sing
live and they're like, we don't have backing tracks in this theater.
That doesn't happen.
So we're going to have to figure this out.
And so a group of just four Thai band members traveled with me to Sweden.
We had to do the whole thing and it was really amazing even for them because it was like,
wow, we're in this ancient theater and this seems so classy.
It was an amazing experience and the event was a big success, which also was a rewarding
feeling feeling.
And in that process, we also did more of your typical type of media touring, you know, visiting
big media outlets.
And in fact, the whole team appeared live on a morning show, the biggest morning show
of Sweden, which meant that after we had arrived with jet lag, we had to get up at 4 AM the
next morning to go into a TV studio to prepare, set up, plug in and practice and perform.
And that was amazing too.
So it was, it was a stressful occasion, but very memorable.
Okay.
With that, we will be right back after this short PSA.
Today is May 4th, which is known as Star Wars Day.
This day comes from the fun May the fourth or May the force be with you.
This phrase may the fourth be with you has been used from 1978 one year after the release
of Star Wars A New Hope.
Since Disney bought the franchise that day has been celebrated in Disneyland and Walt
Disney World.
To any Star Wars fans, happy Star Wars Day.
We are back with part two for with our interview with Mr. Jonas.
What's it like being a celebrity despite having kids and a family on a practical level
what's a little bit funny about being a quote unquote celebrity and having kids and a family
is that when you're in the public eye, then you're always kind of noticeable and you're
always recognizable in any setting.
And so for me in Thailand, there's not really much of a buffer between you and fans.
Like pretty much you're sort of on call for a photo for an autograph or whatever.
Nowadays, autographs are a little bit out because they'd rather just have a selfie.
I mean, who needs a paper with a name versus having a picture with a person.
And everyone has close at hand a camera in their phone where they can just do a selfie,
right?
So then selfies are big.
So for the whole 20 plus years that I've been in the public eye and I've been in entertainment
and all that I have had to be accessible because it's not a good look to kind of reject people
with a selfie.
Even though you know, a lot of big name celebrities from Hollywood, they'll have bouncers, they'll
have a team, you know, they'll protect them, they'll keep people at an arm's length.
But for me, that's never been my experience.
Not that we didn't have security, but it was always a lot of accessibility.
So people would come up at any time.
And of course, like I was talking about that wave dynamic where you have these really big
highs and then some lows, you know, so on the highs, the recognizability just like skyrockets
as well.
So it can be a bit stressful.
I kind of get to sort of rationalize that or manage that emotionally by saying, well,
it comes with the territory, you can't do music and release music and hope that it's
going to be successful and then whine about people wanting to take selfies with you.
That doesn't come that doesn't go together.
And if that is your response to it, then you haven't conditioned yourself to what you need
to expect.
Like what every artist wants is they want their music to get out there.
They want it to be famous.
They want it to be light.
They want people to listen to it, to buy it or whatever.
Well, what comes with the territory is that people also want to engage with you and they
want you to be a real person that they can access.
So I'll just enter into the conversation here that the type of music that I've been doing
my whole career, which is called Luk Thun or Thai country, the culture in that in that
genre of music is that it tends to be very artist driven and there's a certain amount
of privacy that you get in terms of your family.
So as a person, you don't really get a lot of privacy, but it's not been traditionally
the case that people have paraded their wife and kids around if they have them in that
setting.
It's kind of like you're just the artist and then if you happen to have a family, it's
kind of on your terms how comfortable you are with.
Okay, do you want to expose that?
Do you want to bring that to the media, to the public eye or do you not?
Do you want to bring your kids up on stage?
And most, almost all Luk Thun artists choose not to.
They choose to kind of keep compartmentalized to keep that family life as a private thing,
as a separate thing, even if it's widely known or accepted that they have a family.
Nobody really steps in there and demands of them that they need to do something with their
family and at first that was a little bit funny for me coming from a Western mindset
because you would expect that everything is just public record.
It's just available and accessible to the public.
At first, industry insiders told me like, no, no, no, you need to keep that private.
You don't need to talk about that.
You're an artist.
You just need to be you and the family side.
They don't even know about that.
And it felt a little bit fake to me at first, but then that dynamic actually ended up being
a blessing because then I could actually have roots.
I could have like another alternate life where I could just be me.
It could just be dad and it really helped to navigate through that.
But when it becomes a little bit of a balancing act is when you're in public, right?
I wasn't going to be like hiding off and we only show up in public in some other country.
You know, that wasn't real life for us.
We had to do life.
We had to just, you know, go to the mall or go to a restaurant or go to an amusement park
or a swimming place.
So at that time I was Jonas with the family and people just kind of were really quite
natural about it.
You know, they didn't really encroach upon that.
You know, they still want to do the selfies.
They still want to do whatever, but they didn't like, oh, and who's this?
And what are they?
You know, they just kind of leave that space, you know, OK.
You know, they respected that privacy.
So it's been interesting and unexpected, you know, how to navigate it between the celebrity
persona and the individual private family guy.
This next question is for Darren.
What was it like having a famous dad?
Well, I would definitely say that my dad just explaining that two part thing where there's
a bit of a famous life and a family life definitely makes a lot of sense because growing up, I
never felt deprived of any fatherhoodness.
I didn't feel like he wasn't home enough.
I didn't feel like I didn't get to do normal things.
Just like he said, we would just go out like a normal family.
We never had to worry about, oh, we're not going to go to this place because this.
And you know, I do definitely agree with what he said in the sense that that is the Thai
culture is that one day.
Even though him having a family wasn't public to the media, people weren't surprised.
I'm thinking now in my head about more like Western ice culture, about celebrities over
there.
If it was found out that they had children, let alone an entire family, and the media
didn't know about it, they would like freak out.
It would be like, well, like you have this man.
But like you there, they would all just come to me and they're like, oh, you must be you
must be his son.
Like, you know, it's nothing like a surprise.
They're just like, oh, this must be his son.
This must be his wife.
But there definitely have been some funny moments.
I mean, now as a high schooler, you know, occasionally someone will come up to me and
they'll be like, oh, your dad is that person.
Right.
And I'll be like, yeah.
But it was definitely the biggest when I was in elementary, when I was in Thai school,
because that's when he did release that tongue twister song, which was called Gwang Kao.
And I remember there was three songs that they played at every party at every group
assembly.
Oppa Gangwon style, another famous Thai song.
And then Gwang Kao.
I don't remember the name of a second song, but that's the song they would always play
because it was.
And it wasn't even just because he was my dad.
I mean, they were playing it everywhere.
It was a hit.
So that was definitely a funny moment because they would have dance competitions with that
song, playing it with like Gangwon style.
It all kind of came out at the same time.
So it was just funny moments like that to be like, wow, like I heard this song when
it came out.
Like I heard the I was there when he was like making it.
So you know, there are definitely funny moments like that where it was like, wow, this is
crazy that this is my dad on this song.
Have you and Darren sang together?
We've done our family, private family thing, right?
You know, just like at home and just monkeying about, you know, sometimes we've done some
makeshift karaoke night thing, you know, with the family.
So we've done that.
But actually the most iconic singing together moment was because of the Thai department
of ICS here, because last Father's Day, last December, the Thai department asked Darren
to invite me to perform with him for Father's Day.
So we actually got up on stage together down in that sort of open flagpole area and sang
that song that I wrote in honor of King Rama IX, whose birthday is also still Thai Father's
Day.
That was maybe the best way for that experience to happen in many ways, because it was a great
place here where Darren is kind of a bit of a celebrity of his own and also that father-son
dynamic as well as the greater subject matter of the father of the nation of Thailand.
So it was a really nice mix.
And I'm really happy that that was the time that we got to do it where it was the most
meaningful and memorable.
No, but yeah, to just add on one thing to that along the lines of the last question
was, you know, people growing up would always ask me in Thai school, being the foreigner
kid who can speak Thai, they were like, so you're next up, right?
Like, what's the plan for you?
Are you the next Jonas?
And I would always reply like, no, I want to be a football player.
I think I don't want to be a singer.
Like when I was younger, I didn't really care much for music.
When he tried to maybe teach me, I didn't really so much interest in learning.
But actually fairly recently, I have actually taken a love for music and singing kind of
upon joining ICS.
So yeah, being able to do that was really special.
Being able to sing that song, which is also personally one of my favorites too.
Yeah, it was meaningful and a great experience.
Darren, have you been to one of your dad's concert, if you have, what was that like?
Off the top of my head, I know I've been to two, but I don't really remember the first
one at all.
I just remember that it was kind of a big concert.
And I went there when I was really little and you know, that one had dancers and the
stage and but I was too young to remember any more specific details about what it sounds
like.
But the second one was a smaller thing that I remember well, which was actually when we
were in Sweden, when you performed at a Thai restaurant and we got to eat there and you
know, it was a smaller group, but that was definitely probably the biggest memory of
a concert in the height of a lot of those things.
I was still very young kid, so I didn't really get to experience much of those.
But the two times I did, I thought it was really cool.
So back to Mr. Jonas, how would you say that becoming a father has affected both you in
your career as a businessman and as a singer?
Actually, I became a father before I became a singer and much of a businessman or career
person.
And I obviously I had a career, but I wasn't very career driven when I started having a
family and it was an interesting thing that what launched my career was a very, very big
TV show that quote unquote discovered me at an event.
So the host like if you know American network television, you know, the night show and you
know, these primetime nighttime shows, which are huge, you know, so pretty much when someone
wants to promote themselves and they have the opportunity and the wherewithal to do
so they want to show up on these types of shows, which have the highest ratings and
especially when internet wasn't so much of a thing.
So nowadays, if you show up, you know, with one of these big name personalities, they
have to use social media to kind of push that further and push that wider into the global
audience.
But they're still big, you know, they're still syndicated and they're all that.
So in Thailand, the Thai version of night shows, variety night variety shows, there
were just two of them at the time.
And the host of one of these two like the show you want to be on if you want to be like
way back then, it would be the Ed Sullivan show, which none of you guys would know anything
about probably.
But that was where Elvis was and the Beatles and all the biggest names, you know, back
then, they would only feature the the up and coming chart topping hit acts, you know, so
one of the two, the host and owner of this TV show saw me at an event where I was totally
no name.
I was a singer, but it wasn't anything.
But I was I happened to be singing one of these Thai look, Tom Thai country songs, and
he loved to discover acts and bring them on his TV show.
But it was never something you could sort of navigate into yourself.
It had to just happen to you.
And it did happen to me.
And so at the time, it was actually a New Year's Eve countdown event that I was performing
at.
And he said, like, I want you on my show, you know, and I didn't recognize this guy
because I wasn't in entertainment.
I didn't watch Thai TV.
So if I had been anyone else, I would have been shaking in my boots and like, sweating
like, oh, my God, I'm in the presence of this person.
And like, I might get to go on a show, it would have been like the stepping stone to
success for everyone.
And for me, it was like, he was a guy like, hey, yeah, cool.
Sure, you know, here's my number, call me up.
And you know, and he never called me until six months later, his staff contacted me and
says, oh, by the way, you know, we want to invite you on the show.
So then I go on the show and overnight, everyone recognizes me.
It was just so weird.
Once this show was aired, I was instantly known all over the place by everyone.
And it's that big.
It was a it was a huge moment.
But on that TV show, I was just a guy who sang.
Right.
And so he's asking me like, oh, so you have a family, you know, are you married?
Yeah.
You know, Thai girls might like it.
Like, oh, no, I'm married.
I have two kids.
You know, it was just like totally authentic and not at all contrived.
So I actually launched my career in one of the biggest TV shows in the country in the
way that nobody really would.
If you aspired to be this big name artist, you wouldn't talk about your family and kids.
But for me, I was just talking life, right?
I was just telling my story.
And after that, as it so happened, like I explained, I didn't really put that front
and center and I was able to separate the two.
So in relation to like, well, how does being a father affect my professional life?
And I would say that I think I've I've kind of touched on it already, that it keeps me
grounded.
Fatherhood really brings out humanity.
You know, like you have to deal with crisis moments.
It involves compassion.
It involves discipline.
It involves sacrifice.
Having a family, having kids and everything is is one of the best character development
experiences you can have for sure.
And it's also where in many situations, you're totally out of control.
And it's good for us to be out of control.
It's not good for us to always have it all figured out and have everything under control.
And so when we can, on a very personal, human and emotional level, navigate through things
in life and we can bring those experiences to our professional lives, it gives us depth.
It allows us to handle disappointment.
It allows us to troubleshoot and and crisis manage.
It allows us to interact with people because there's a lot that people talk about soft
power and and soft skills and how you need to, you know, have good interpersonal relationship
skills.
And when you have parenting, that's probably the best degree you can go through in terms
of having interpersonal skills because everything's there.
There's the aspect of like, well, you don't get a free pass.
You don't get to control the game.
You have to negotiate.
You've got a discipline.
You've got to love.
You've got to say sorry.
You got to step back.
You got to get involved.
All these dynamics are there.
So I recommend it for professional life.
Try personal life.
Finally, before ending each episode, we like to ask our guests for advice.
So Mr. Jonas, what advice would you give to someone who wants to get into the entertainment
industry?
Well, this is a great question because I think it's very relevant to our world today.
In today's world, we have a whole new dynamic where anybody can become a celebrity.
That was never the case before.
To become a famous singer, for example.
Well, first of all, you had to work on your craft and that hasn't changed.
To be a famous artist or musicians, you do have to learn to sing and learn to play the
instrument or whatever it is you're doing.
But that certainly wasn't enough before.
After you learned that stuff, then you had to be noticed.
You had to be discovered.
You had to have a recording contract, which involved a lot of money.
And then you had to be released, which involved even more money.
And then you had to be promoted, which involved more money even still.
So it was hard to become famous.
But now, someone might pick up their phone and do a TikTok and suddenly they've just
become viral overnight without even any plan or marketing research or even training or
anything.
And so what's really amazing about that in today's dynamic is that incredible talent
can become recognized totally organically and can launch into the public sphere.
And a lot of these are people who would never have quote unquote made it back in the day,
because the executives wouldn't release them.
They're like, no, nobody listens to that type of music or you're not good looking enough
or you're too old or you're too young or you're too this or you're too that.
That would never happen.
You know, nowadays, it's just an open field where anyone can go in and become famous.
But then the kind of the downside of that is that people get a little bit more starry
eyed, you know, and they have this aspiration, you know, to want to be famous, you know,
to want to be recognized, to want to be seen, to want to go viral.
And the problem with that is that it's kind of all back to front, because if you really,
really want to go into the entertainment industry in whatever category it is, if you want to
be a singer, if you want to be a musician, if you want to be an actor, you want to be
a presenter, a TV personality, an emcee, what you really need to focus on is developing
your skills, not how am I going to go viral?
What am I going to do to make this famous and really blow up and pop off and all this
stuff?
That's not actually what you need to do to become an entertainment person.
What you need to do is, okay, well, first of all, what are my skills?
What are my talents?
And you need to develop those and you need to be willing to put in the time and the effort
to make that happen.
And if you do, if you make it about the craft, if you make it about the skill, if you make
it about taking your strongest areas and developing them and being pretty ruthless about that,
then more than just being the next viral act that comes and goes, what you're going to
do is you're going to be developing art.
And what this world really needs is art.
It doesn't need another viral video.
It needs something that actually has an impact on culture and that people can be inspired
by that they can drive further.
So I really strongly advise any aspiring artists and entertainers out there that please, if
you really want to be that, don't be starry eyed about success and fame and popularity
and being viral.
Make it about developing yourself as an artist.
Think of it as art.
What are you going to leave with this planet?
What are people are going to remember you by when you're gone?
And then what happens is all the viral stuff and the funny things and the quippy things
and the all that, that becomes means to an end, not the end in itself.
And if you do that, then chances are that you're going to have a lot more staying power
as an entertainer as well.
Okay.
With that great advice, thank you so much for joining us, Mr. Anderson.
It's been a pleasure to have you.
As we end this episode, we'd like to thank our guests and listeners for supporting the
podcast.
This week's episode will feature a conversation with a psychology and sociology teacher and
we'll also include two top 10 lists.
So stay tuned.
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student production team.
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And we are signing off until next time.
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