Welcome to Students Incorporated, a podcast where we dive into relevant topics and issues
related to the world of business, technology, education and design.
I'm your host, Mr. Jason.
Episodes include student conversations, interviews with thought leaders, and inspirational stories
with an international flavor.
This podcast is created and produced with the help of students from the International
Community School of Bangkok.
In today's episode, we'll be talking about forensics, how we can learn from crime and
share some funny crime stories.
I'm joined by our guest, Mrs. Debbie, and our co-host, Lion and Linda.
But before we jump into our quote of the day and headline news, here are some interesting
statistics about True Crime Podcasts.
True Crime is one of the most popular genres on Spotify.
Apple Podcasts platform has over 200 shows listed under this genre.
According to Podchaser, 61% of True Crime Podcast listeners are women.
The majority of listeners are located in the United States, the UK, Canada, Australia,
Ireland, Brazil, India, and the Philippines.
And finally, this topic is so popular that Cosmopolitan magazine published an article
titled the 50 Best True Crime Podcasts to Listen To in 2023.
Needless to say, True Crime captures our attention.
Okay, moving on, it's time to hear our quote of the day and get some headline news.
Our quote of the day comes from Elizabeth Fry.
She said, since this is an episode about crime, we will be following the adventures of some
of the world's funniest criminals and for this new segment, the focus will be on a few
bizarre stories about men from Florida.
A man from Florida was arrested for an assault with a deadly weapon for throwing a 3.5-foot
alligator through a fast food restaurant window.
He ordered a drink, threw the alligator and drove away.
Fortunately, no one was injured.
And another man from Florida left in the middle of his trial to go to lunch.
Court records show he never returned to his trial.
As a result, his bond has been revoked.
And finally, another man from Florida was recently arrested after slapping another person
with a piece of pizza.
Evidence showed the pizza victim had pizza sauce on her shirt collar and it was also
on the ceiling in the house.
Thank you for the quote and headline news.
Let's jump into our first segment with Mrs. Debbie about the subject of forensics, science,
education and crime.
Welcome to the podcast.
We're really excited to have you on this episode.
Could you please introduce yourself and tell us what led you to your interest in forensic
science?
Well, actually, my name is Miss Debbie.
And what led me is when I was 46, actually, I went back to college and God had told me
to study chemistry.
And I didn't even know how to spell chemistry, basically.
So I went in and I started taking chemistry classes, which were very difficult.
And they had just opened, this was 1996, they had just opened forensic science.
It was a brand new science before CSI even came on TV.
And it was so interesting to me because I was always curious about those things.
So I started going that way and taking forensic science, which is under chemistry.
And I ended up getting my degree in forensic chemistry instead of just playing chemistry.
But it was a brand new program.
So it was really interesting to me.
Has this area always been something you've been interested in or did that interest spark
later in life?
Well, I think I've always been curious about why people do things, what drives somebody
over an edge to commit a murder or hurt somebody or do something like that.
So I think I've always had that interest in it.
When I was in high school, one of my friends killed themselves with a gun by accident.
So I think it sort of sparked an interest in it.
But it was really neat that it was turning into a science.
Going to school like you guys did, science was so boring in high school.
I don't even remember what it was.
But taking the forensics, I was like, science is so interesting.
And then it was like, how can I bring this into high school so that kids would be interested
in science?
Not everybody can do physics, but everybody can do forensics.
So it was just always that underlying thing.
Thank you for sharing, Mrs. Debbie.
We understand you have worked within this field before.
What was that like?
And would you like to share any stories with us?
Well, when I was going to school, because it was a new science, the people they got
to teach it were all the people at the lab in Fort Worth.
I was in Fort Worth, Texas.
So there's a branch of the University of Texas there.
And my teachers were the anthropologists, forensic anthropologists, the forensic toxologists.
They were all from the coroner's office.
And then, of course, they would let us go in and watch autopsies and things like that,
which were so neat, which a lot of places don't do anymore.
But because it was a new science and they were trying to encourage people to do forensics,
it was so interesting.
So I would love going to autopsies.
And we had this Dr. Pirwani, who was so amazing.
The first time I went, I remember I was teaching a biology class and I took little bags to
take body parts because I thought he'd give me pieces.
He'd let me take parts and he wouldn't let me.
That was really interesting.
Yeah, I thought it was funny.
The next time we went, we were going in, we were going to see a gunshot autopsy, which
was so amazing.
You don't just get to see those all the time.
They just brought him in while we were there.
And it so happened that it was an uncle of one of the kids in class.
So they had to pull it.
We were all going in and then they just shut the whole lab down really quick.
Nurses all have to watch the autopsies.
And we would all sit there and laugh and they would all be passing out.
We thought they were so neat.
And the nurses would all be like passing out during the autopsies.
We got all the people from Waco.
What happened in Waco?
David Koresh.
I think they just made a Netflix documentary out of it where he was a cult leader and he
got all these people to follow him and stuff like that.
And then when the police came and said, you've got to let him go and they were all armed
guards outside, the ATF and the FBI went out.
It was really sad.
Everybody has this idea that every community has a corridor, but you don't have a pathologist
everywhere, a forensic pathologist.
And we had it.
What was the transition like from your old job to coming to Bangkok to teach?
Was it a good adjustment?
Yeah, it was really cool.
Well, you know, I went from Fort Worth to Hong Kong.
So I taught in Hong Kong for five years and I actually was doing biology and forensics.
And so the transition from there was much harder because retiring, because I was 62
when I left Fort Worth and just different and going to Hong Kong.
So once you're in Hong Kong, you're living in a different culture.
It's really neat to realize that you get to look at America in a different viewpoint when
you're out of it and how you adjust to their culture.
And so coming here was pretty easy.
It was just moving to another country.
It's sort of exciting to go from place to place.
Moving on, what are some favorite things about your current teaching role?
Oh, gosh, I love the forensics part.
That's my favorite class because it's really I treat it like what we did in college.
It's your job and you do your job and you get graded.
So there's not like tests.
It's all hands on, all interactive teaching.
And I think that that works for a lot of people, especially like I'm ADHD.
So it works for me.
And then the chemistry is always fun.
The AP environmental, it's a little more difficult getting people interested in the environment,
but they're all really cool classes.
So you can't complain.
And most of the people are pretty interactive.
Like in America, they're not maybe as driven, all of them.
But here everybody's you have a more mix of probably 80 percent of them really want to
do well.
So they're going to listen and that's pretty cool.
What are some of the main benefits in learning about forensic science and criminology?
Well, it's such a growing field.
When I started, it was not.
It was so small and you have very few choices.
You could be the crime scene person, which is usually somebody who works at the lab.
But now it's such a big field.
Crime is not going away.
It's just there and it's gotten bigger in the fact that now we can investigate it.
We have the Internet and we're noticing more things.
And it's sort of sad, but good, you know, that it's just the field is getting bigger
and bigger.
There are so many different aspects.
You can be a forensic blood pattern.
You can be just a voice pattern detective where you just study voice patterns.
And so in America and other places, Thailand has an amazing forensics department.
I think it's Mahidol.
It's just growing.
It's never getting smaller.
It's just now we're getting better at detecting it.
So now we need more people involved in it.
Plus we're specializing it.
Like when you go into engineering, you have different.
And now we have we even have forensic engineers who do buildings that collapse like they'll
go to Turkey or wasn't it that just had the earthquake and they will study what was wrong
with the buildings.
A forensic engineer.
What is your advice to those interested in studying these areas?
I think you have to find a good college that, you know, teaches it.
I mean, we think we have a thing that if we go to these colleges, top colleges, that they're
the best in everything.
But it's not always that way.
One of the top in the world is Yongsius.
Number three, you know, the top college if you're Korean, you want to go to this one.
Well, that's not the top in forensic.
So you really have to look for a college that is teaching criminology and figure out what
you want to do.
Do you want to be a toxicologist?
Do you want to be a who just works with the blood and things like that?
Or do you want to be a crime scene investigator?
Do you want to be a policeman?
Do you want to work for the FBI, which is an amazing job?
We have all the alphabet agencies in America, the DEA, the FBI, the CIA, and all of those
are excellent jobs that pay very well.
And they're very exciting.
You can go all over the world because DEA is everywhere.
The FBI has branches internationally, has branches.
So it's a really good thing.
And a lot of countries are stepping up, like Korea has great programs in those.
Thailand is getting into that and doing really well with their, you know, now with the internet,
you can cooperate worldwide with these different things, Interpol and different ones.
So it's just a great field.
And I think it's not always the same.
I guess that's what was exciting to me too.
Like when I teach it every day in forensics, it's different.
Where chemistry, you know, you're going to be doing this, you're going to be doing acid
base, you're going to be doing this.
But every crime scene is different.
And so it's really neat to have that.
Are there any other ICS courses that could also be used in forensics?
Yes, forensic psychology is huge.
A lot of people are going into the psychology of serial killers, which fascinate everybody.
I mean, I think everybody in my class is fascinated by them.
I watch every documentary I can on different serial killers just to understand how they
think.
So those are really great courses, you know, that you can go into and study.
It's like the books that were written by the FBI has a huge department.
Mind Hunters, which is a book written by them, by the guy setting up that behavioral science
department.
The behavioral science department's different places hire forensic psychologists so that
they can interview these people so they can figure out how they can solve other crimes.
But also, you know, can we now tell in youth and young people what are the indicators that
would lead them to commit crimes like that?
That's what Mind Hunters is that the FBI developed this program.
The guy wrote the book.
He was trying to start the program of the behavioral science department at the FBI.
And they really were like, oh, we don't need that.
We don't need that.
And he said, no, if I actually, and they based Mind Hunters on his book, which is Mind Hunters.
And they said, if he was like, if I interview serial killers, then I will be able to tell
what to look for and do a profile on them, which is really big now, profiling.
And so he started interviewing and they finally gave him the OK to Go interview at Kemper,
who is a terrible serial killer.
And so he went in and it was so interesting to watch.
Mind Hunters has him interviewing him and listening to some of the interviews, even
in class now that are posted.
There's no emotion there.
Like he interviewed Gacy and they're just like talking about, I didn't do anything wrong.
I don't understand that.
Would you like a cup of tea?
And they'll sit down and have tea and they just talk like it's not a big deal.
So that part is really interesting because we can use that to do the profiles later.
What makes a serial killer, where we found out they always like to have a modus operandi,
they always do things the same way.
These are not dumb people by any means.
These are people that have above average IQ because they're getting away with it.
So forensic psychology really leans into that.
And with that intriguing discussion, we'll be right back after a short PSA.
The ICS entrepreneurship classes are organizing their first ever entrepreneurship fair.
It will be held from April 24 to April 28.
And small businesses will be presented at the fair.
Students, teachers, parents, and community members will be able to order or purchase
products.
The tables will be located in the HS Commons.
The students will be selling and promoting a variety of clothing, accessories, foods,
drinks, and more.
You can check out the businesses on social media and see more details on posters posted
all around the school.
Be sure to come out and support Mr. Jason's entrepreneurship students.
We are back with part two.
And for this segment, instead of focusing on serious and oftentimes eerie crime stories,
with Mrs. Debbie's help, we'll like to share a few funny and dumb criminal stories, crime
stories that did not go well for the bad guys.
With that said, Lyon will get us started.
A bank robber in Ohio thought that he had successfully disguised himself by painting
his face with black shoe polish.
Unfortunately, the dye began to run down his face in the middle of the robbery, making
him look like a raccoon.
Police had no trouble identifying him.
Mrs. Debbie, do you have any thoughts or comments about this dumb criminal or maybe even some
advice?
Yeah, use better paint.
This is like, yeah, that's really dumb.
But yeah, if you're going to rob somebody, use better paint.
He should have tested it beforehand, not shoe polish.
Why not just a mask?
That would have been an idea too, you know.
A thief and friends stole a cell phone and then took a selfie with it, not realizing
that the photo automatically uploaded to the owner's cloud storage.
The owner was able to see the thief's face and location and turn the information over
to the police.
Now, Mrs. Debbie, in relation to this story and technology, what are your thoughts about
technology and crime, positive or negative?
Technology is, I love technology.
It's a two-edged sword.
It has such good points.
I mean, the things that we're doing in forensics that they are now doing with technology are
amazing, like facial recognition, the fact that you can identify somebody.
But also, like China claims they can find you in 10 minutes now.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Because they have so many CCTVs out there and stuff.
So yes, it's very good, but unfortunately, you always get the bad side too.
And we don't really look at those kind of things like the dark web, but we do know they
exist and we do know there's a lot of crime that goes on in that area, especially with
pornography.
Even today, 500,000 pictures of child porn are loaded a week, even though we think it's
not.
And with technology, with the VPN now, you can just bounce yourself all over.
So it's big for those kinds of things and it's also big for human trafficking.
So there's good and bad.
We're definitely putting a warning label on this episode.
Sorry.
OK, so in 2015, two teenagers dressed like ninjas attempted to rob a Pittsburgh convenience
store with machetes.
However, they were chased off by the store clerk who wept out a bigger sword.
Now, Mrs. Debbie, after hearing this story, do you have any thoughts about the ideal method
of self-defense?
Well, I would say they should have been prepared and have a bigger weapon.
Don't dress like a ninja if you can't back it up.
Personally, most people are not going to do self-defense.
The best thing if you're robbed is just give them this stuff and get out of there alive.
OK, that would be the best advice to you because most people you're I'm not equipped to do
karate or ninja.
So just give them the stuff.
Insurance covers it and your life is more and if it doesn't, your life is more valuable
than 20 bucks.
I would say don't use self-defense.
Let you really know what you're doing.
There's a difference between if you're walking to your car at night for women in America.
A lot of women have spray, pepper spray or something that is easier to use in case of
those things or walking with your car keys in your hand between your fingers and not.
I mean, there are always things that you can do to protect yourself.
If you know, you know, if you have somebody come at you as far as trying to ninja somebody
or something that is probably not going to happen and it's not going to be good for you.
A burglar in California accidentally but dialed 911 while he was breaking into a car and his
entire conversation with his accomplice was recorded on the emergency line.
The police used the recording to track down an arrest boatman.
Mrs. Debbie, have you ever accidentally dialed 911 or another emergency number?
No, I don't know how you accidentally dial 911.
That's sort of funny.
Not an emergency number, but other numbers by accident.
Yes, but not an emergency number.
A man in Texas tried to rob a convenience store using a water pistol, but the cashier
quickly realized it wasn't a real gun and pulled out his own handgun.
The would-be robber fled the scene, leaving behind his wallet and identification.
Mrs. Debbie, in your experience, what are some instincts people have when confronting
with a situation requiring self-defense?
That's really, yeah, that's really interesting.
How did you know it was a water gun for one thing?
He had to be pretty astute.
So pulling out your own gun, that's a little scary.
We ran a restaurant in America for 25 years, and we got robbed all the time.
And the biggest thing is just give him the money and let him go.
The insurance is going to cover it.
Don't try to be a hero.
Plus, when those happen, in those situations, like when they put the gun in my face when
we got robbed, all I could see was the gun.
I couldn't even count the money out.
The guy was like, give me the money.
And I couldn't even give him the money.
You just freeze.
So everybody's going to have a different reaction to that.
So saying, oh, I'm pulling out a gun, that could be, how did he know it was a water gun?
And yeah, that's a little tricky.
So I would be a little careful there.
Like I said, self-defense, unless you're really good at it, and even if you're good at it,
it's not a good idea.
So give him the money.
Let him take it.
Is your life worth it?
A man in Oregon called the police to report that his car had been stolen, only to realize
after the call that he had left his phone in the car.
When the police called the stolen phone to get more information, the thief answered and
was quickly uphanded.
Mrs. Debbie, from your knowledge, what do thieves actually do with their cars they steal?
They're so funny, these stories.
Most of the time, when I was a kid, they joyride it.
That is not true anymore.
Most of the cars that are stolen today in Thailand and even in America are used for
parts or shipped overseas.
So they take them to what is called a chop shop, especially having a nice car, and they'll
take the catalytic converter, different parts off of it that they need.
And that even happens here.
A lot of the cars, in fact, I think a couple of weeks ago, they broke up a ring that was
stealing cars.
And what they were doing them is replacing the VIN numbers, scraping and giving them
new VIN numbers and shipping them overseas to sell.
And they said one, they were sitting at a gas station and sold this Audi that they bought
for like 3 million baht or some ridiculous thing.
Well, wouldn't you think if somebody came up to you and offered you a car, an Audi for
3 million baht, that it was like, eh.
So it's not joyriding anymore.
It's mostly used in other crimes or sent overseas.
Yeah.
So that's a good time for this last segment, but before ending, we all love a good bank
heist movie.
So here are a few real bank robbery statistics.
According to the FBI, Friday was the most popular day to rob a bank in the year 2019.
The most common time is between 3 and 6 p.m.
And the biggest bank robbery ever was led by Saddam Hussein in 2003.
He robbed the central bank of Iraq and it's reported that he stole over $920 million dollars
in cash using three semi trucks.
Also, there were zero bank robberies in South Africa in 2020.
And in contrast, there were over 1330 bank robberies in the United States in 2020.
And lastly, the oldest bank robber in the U.S. was J.L. Hunter Rowntree and he was 92
years old.
And that wraps up our episode about crime.
As we end this episode, we'd like to thank our guests and give a big shout out to all
the dumb criminals out there and helping us put together the content for this episode.
Our next episode will focus on the topic of foreign languages, where we hear from some
foreign language teachers and get some good insight into words or phrases that just don't
translate well.
As always, this podcast will not be possible without the hard work and support of our international
student production team.
All music and sound effects are courtesy of Pixabay.com, a vibrant community of creatives
sharing copyright free images, videos and music.
And we are signing off until next time.
We are Students Incorporated because your voice matters.