Welcome to Students Incorporated, a podcast where we dive into relevant topics and issues
related to the world of business, technology, education and design.
I'm your host, Mr. Jason.
Episodes include student conversations, interviews with thought leaders, and inspirational stories
with an international flavor.
This podcast is created and produced with the help of students from the International
Community School of Bangkok.
In today's episode, we'll be diving into the topics of design education and the design
process.
Joining us will be our special guests, Mrs. Cammie, Mr. Tim, and Mr. Darwin.
The first segment will be about design education.
The following segment will be about the design process and will feature fun art and design
themed trivia questions.
Before beginning, let's hear the quote of the day and news headlines.
Thank you, Mr. Jason.
Today's quote is from a famous painter, Jackson Pollock.
He said that,
Art is coming face to face with yourself.
Many artistic pieces often reflect the artist's own emotions and viewpoints.
Jackson Pollock was a major influence in the abstract expressionist movement, which lasted
from 1943 through the mid-1950s.
Pollock was especially known for his paintings created through a drip technique, where he
poured paint on a surface and rotated it so that the paint would drip in an abstract
manner and would be viewed from all angles.
As the time of this recording, the FIFA 22 World Cup is happening in Qatar.
Here are some of the biggest upsets so far.
Saudi Arabia beat Argentina 2-1.
Japan also beat Germany 2-1, with the Japanese fans helping clean up the stadium after the
match.
Despite losing 1-0, Canada put in a shockingly good performance against Belgium, with this
being their first World Cup match in 36 years.
Ecuador drew 1-1 to the Netherlands, and USA drew England 0-0 as well.
So I guess it can be called soccer and football.
Morocco beat Belgium 2-0, dominating the entire game, and when asked about the loss, the Belgian
captain Kevin De Bruyner said, we're simply too old.
Thank you for that quote and the news headlines.
Design, which is the topic of this episode, has played a significant role in my career
for a very long time, so I'm glad we can dedicate both guest segments to it.
For this first segment, we welcome Mrs. Cammie, an experienced educator and artist.
Okay, with that, let's get started with our first question.
Well, first of all, good morning, Mrs. Cammie.
Good morning.
Can you please introduce yourself, tell us that you studied in college, and then describe
what attracted you to the field of design and art.
Sure, I'm Cammie Lattice, and I've been working here at the school for, I think it's my seventh
year.
I went to Messiah College and majored in fine arts.
I was an oil painting concentration and really loved it.
I got to take a lot of classes and a lot of things.
What got me started in art was in elementary school, I just loved horses.
Sorry if you've heard this story, but I grew up on a horse farm and just drew them and
loved them and rode them.
I loved horses so much, so I just started drawing them and inadvertently ended up really
loving drawing and painting.
In eighth grade, my parents got me an art tutor and she was amazing.
She was an older woman who had worked for Disney back in the early animation days, and
she worked on Pinocchio.
She had the falling leaves scene.
She always told me that she did the falling leaves.
I really learned a lot from her about just drawing and painting.
Then I went to college.
At the end of college, I was wanting to do more service.
That's when I think I started getting interested in teaching and ended up going back to school
to study education and found that art education is really my calling.
I didn't make art for nine years when I was a stay-at-home mom, and then I came back to
it as I started teaching.
A lot of people confuse the two areas, art and design.
You probably have noticed that.
What is the difference and how do these two things converge, especially in the field of
education?
I really think art doesn't have a set purpose.
It can be what the artist wants.
There's a lot of purposes that the artist sets out for, maybe to explore a certain medium,
to express themselves.
They don't even have to say what the purpose is.
There's a lot of art that is left untitled.
Whereas design is a lot about function.
Usually when you're designing something, you're thinking of someone else or something else.
Your design is at the mercy of what the function is for that thing.
I actually think of fashion a lot.
I'm not a big fashionista, but I think of the difference between the designs that are
on a catwalk, which you see them and you're like, I would never wear that.
The designer is going after something new.
They're trying to find something fresh and exploring and playing with new materials or
new ideas.
I really love Target back in the States.
Often they partner with a designer like Marneco.
They make the designs that don't seem functional on a catwalk functional for moms and for regular
people.
I think that's a great example of the difference between art and design.
Staying in the field of education, what are your thoughts about design education or educating
people about design?
Why is this important and what impact do you think this can have on society as a whole?
I think even just in my short little lifetime, the world has become more and more visually
oriented.
We barely have time with consumers.
You have to design things so tightly that you get their attention in a split second.
I think design has never been more important.
I read a great book a while ago by David Berman called Do Good Design.
Design matters as it never has before.
Design creates so much of what we see, what we use, and what we experience.
In a time of unprecedented environmental, social, and economic crises, designers must
now choose what their young profession will be about, deploying weapons of mass deception
or helping repair the world.
So I think design is really important in influencing society and the way people think if we can
use it for good.
That's kind of what that whole book was about, is harnessing the power of design, the power
that can sell Coca-Cola and using it to send great messages.
So for you personally, are there artists or designers that have inspired you or that you
take inspiration from?
If so, who are they and why?
Yeah, on the art side, I found a lot of artists through actually Instagram.
It's just so accessible and you can see art quickly that way.
Felicia Forte is a painter who I just really admire her fresh colors, her compositions,
and her just everyday life kind of scenes.
Carol Maureen is another painter who inspired me a lot, especially coming back to art after
being a stay at home mom.
She also was a mom and that's kind of when she started her painting career is during
her children's nap times.
She would challenge herself to paint every day a small amount of time and she always
keeps her paintings really small.
So I thought, oh, it just seemed like this instrumental or this just mountain I couldn't
climb to get back into art.
So for her to break that down was really amazing for me.
On the design side, I actually got that David Berman book that I mentioned before from a
designer I really admire named Victoria Harrison.
Her husband was actually a high school friend of mine, Scott Harrison, and he started a
way back in 2006, he started a nonprofit called Charity Water, which was kind of groundbreaking
at the time.
He rented out a studio down in New York City and had a photography show there for his birthday.
And I guess he had been a nightclub promoter in New York City, so he had a lot of celebrity
friends and invited them to donate to Charity Water as his birthday present.
He ended up hiring a woman named Victoria Harrison to be his designer.
She's so inspiring because she wants to do this with design.
She wants to harness the power of design and influence for good.
And so because of her designs, Charity Water and a lot of other factors, but it really
took off and I admire that.
Okay, moving on to something a bit more whimsical, we've compiled a few statements that according
to Google, artists have actually said, for instance, describing their works of art.
Would you mind reading them using your best artist voice?
All right, I am not my husband.
If he were here, he would try to do all the accents, but I'm not going to do that.
I'm going to go for more like NPR.
Okay, so my first statement is by Georgia O'Keefe, and she said, nobody really sees
a flower, really, it is so small.
We have a time and to see takes time.
So I said to myself, I'll paint what I see, what the flower is to me, but I'll paint it
big and they will be surprised into taking time to look at it.
Very good.
Just like her.
All right.
You have one more, I think.
Okay, yes.
I have another.
Next, we have a statement by another female artist named Beth Marisol.
I hope I said that right.
She is quoted as saying, it is important to express oneself, provided the feelings are
real and are taken from your own experience.
My ambition is limited to capturing something transient, and yet this ambition is excessive.
Artists sometimes put out the best statements, don't they?
Sometimes we understand them, sometimes we do not.
All right.
Thank you so much for joining us, Mrs. Kamie.
It's been really interesting.
I love hearing the stories of how people get into design and art.
So thank you so much.
Now before beginning the next part, let's hear the PSA from Lyon.
Most of us have heard about gratitude, but how does it affect us in life?
Scientists at University of California, Berkeley found that practicing gratitude has many benefits
in life.
Physically, these people had stronger immune systems, were less bothered by aches and pains
and enjoyed better sleep.
Mental health benefits include feeling more joy and experiencing more optimism, generally
making us happier.
Gratitude also helps with social life.
People who practice gratitude become more generous and compassionate, and they even
report feeling less lonely and isolated.
So be grateful for what you have, everyone.
Thank you for that announcement.
In our second segment, we welcome Mr. Tim Mills and Mr. Darwin, both of whom are artists
and designers.
This segment is focused on the importance of design process, and Lyon will start us
off with our first question.
Good morning, gentlemen.
Can you please introduce yourselves and tell us what you studied in college and then describe
what led you to the creative field?
Let's start with the one and only Mr. Tim Mills.
All right.
Good morning.
I studied fine art in college, and I had a focus on ceramics and visual communications
minor as well.
I worked as a designer for a number of years out of college and upon graduation, and I've
continued working in the ceramic arts as well.
I was drawn to the creative field through just an innate desire to create.
My name is Darwin.
I am the web and graphic designer here in ICS.
Well, mostly like doing multimedia producing and such.
So I studied international business for my college degree and pursued my diploma in media
production afterwards.
What led me to the creative field is the branding of a business.
I remember sitting down in a business branding class and I thought to myself like, I want
the design stuff.
And that's where it all started.
Since we are focused on the design process in this segment, is there a specific process
that you follow when creating or designing, maybe in the context of having a specific
project that you're working on?
For me, creating and designing, it really tapped into kind of a fundamental human desire
to make.
That process is really at its core one of play.
When I think about designing and making, our imaginations are fully engaged.
It's one of exploration and discovery.
So the process for me often begins with these sparks of possibility, these initial ideas,
these what ifs.
And then often I just get initial ideas and concepts out quickly into some tangible form,
like a quick sketch, ink on paper, kind of get the idea out.
Then of course there's refinement, prototyping, trial and error, more error, sometimes success.
Times I have an idea and I can't even sketch it out right then, so I'll just put a word
down, get my phone out type of word or two in, something to help me mark that idea for
later.
When there's a specific or desired end in mind, those aspects certainly inform and drive
the process for me.
But fundamentally I think the process of design and creating, it's always one of play, it's
one of discovery.
And Darwin, what about you?
Do you have a specific process that you follow?
Well, with my line of work, like graphic design basically, every project has different process
and sometimes the process is A, B, C, D and sometimes it's like C, A, D, B.
But with all of my creative process in creating school materials, I have to walk around and
see how the design will flow with and how the school looks like.
For example, the way finding system.
Two years ago ICS all have this green plastic room and they told me like they've been there
since this building was built.
We have different designs, different fonts and teachers and such.
So one of my early tasks when I was hired was to create a uniform way finding and signage
system here that match ICS logos and colors.
So during that time, elementary building was slowly becoming blue and white and we knew
that the middle school and high school buildings will be white and blue as well.
So the process was to take a walk and envision how people interact with the design.
In this case, I created a blue acrylic class room signages with white bold font in a white
wall.
With this, people can see what room is from afar without needing to go close and read
the room number.
It sounds so simple, but it involves a lot of meetings, brainstormings and then the initial
conclusion to proceed with the design.
So do you think that most creators follow a similar process or do you feel like the
project kind of dictates that process and it could be different every time?
My thought is that most designers, creators, makers, they do approach a similar process
of what we've both spoken about.
What I like about what Darwin just mentioned was he actually inhabited the design process
physically.
He was out there walking around and looking and that's a great note, a great point about
actually stepping into what he would be needing in that design process.
So I think for me, that idea of discovery of play, I imagine that most designers, I
mean it starts with an idea, right?
Kind of engage in our imagination and that helps to drive us.
Yeah, so I feel like a lot of creatives have similar but also different process of things.
Maybe when I was a beginner, I follow a certain process that my teacher told me or what I
watch on YouTube, but now as I grow, I'm creating my own craft.
It's more like, oh, this is how I do things.
This is what I'm comfortable doing.
Well, thank you for sharing, gentlemen.
Can you talk about the concept of form and function as well as share your thoughts about
how design can reflect the culture of the day?
Like the example of what I shared earlier about design, just do I want to create an
artistic like room design?
Yes, of course, but it's not what is needed.
The demand for the design is to create an effective way to communicate, which is the
room needs to be seen.
It needs to be effective in communicating where the toilets are, where the rooms are,
how do you go to art, how do you go to like the principal's office.
The form of the design should always follow its function.
Design is used by most people in everyday life.
When you fill out that form, a good layout design can save your time.
When you park your car, signages and where you park your car are always out there.
And the better the signage designs, the better you can go in and out of that parking lot.
When you need to go to the public toilet, you look for that mini male and female icon
instead of the word toilet.
So design is everywhere and good design can help you in your everyday life.
I mean, a bad design, however, can ruin someone's day.
It can even ruin the national election.
That design principle that Maxim, it was actually coined by an architect, Louis Sullivan, American
architect, talking about form following function.
And another architect, Frank Lloyd Wright, talked about that and kind of expanded it
a bit saying, yes, form follows function and maybe adding to it.
He said, he really sees it as form and function should be one, joined.
He said, joined in this, in a spiritual union, interesting phrasing there, joined in a spiritual
union.
So really, you know, form does follow function in a sense, but then function without form,
you know, where does that leave us?
And also I would say as a ceramic artist, you know, that form itself has a function,
you know, like the aesthetic quality and beauty of a particular piece of work.
I remember in college for us working on various forms and things, take for example, a teapot.
It might look wonderful, right, the form, but a function of a teapot is to hold hot
water, brew tea, and then to serve that tea, to pour that tea into a vessel.
And you know, you really need to pay a lot of attention to the spout, particularly the
rim of the spout so that it pours well, it doesn't drip, doesn't dribble back on the
on the piece itself.
So anyway, yeah, for me, I think that I think I appreciate Wright's thoughts towards, yes,
form follows function, but he said, he even said this has been misunderstood.
You know, he's saying form and function should be one joined in a spiritual union.
So I think maybe a designer, creator, maker is always kind of going back and forth on
that.
So here's another follow up question on that.
Is there such a thing as a design going out of style?
I believe so, but it's more a circular pattern.
In most cases, a certain design trend will go out of style, but will never die.
It will return back to life when it attracts a new generation.
A big buzzword these days is vintage, you know, something that's kind of applied to
when we look back, maybe at future or past technologies and think, well, there was something
about that that was lost, right?
We think about the advent of digital photography and people really looking back to the beauty
and the grain of a fine print photograph from times past.
And in some ways, I think maybe the fundamental elements of design or the elements of design
that were in place or implemented, those do not go out of style in a sense.
Those never fade or perish or spoil, but I think there's a refinement process.
There's a taking and making of, I mean, think about the bicycle, for example.
I mean, what an incredible invention and design and creative understanding of human form and
motion with machine, right?
But the very first bicycles, right?
You wouldn't go mountain biking with them.
Like they, you know, I think about the early ones with the gigantic front wheel and the
very small back wheel and just took great balance and even the ladder to get up onto
and think, right, you're not going to go mountain biking with those.
The thing about like the refinement of that design, right?
Today we have road bikes and racing bikes that are light and carbon fiber and so on.
So I think those fundamental pieces of design do not go out of style per se.
Okay, moving on to our next question.
For you personally, are there artists or designers that inspire you or that you take inspiration
from?
So who are they and why?
Well besides Mr. T. Mills, I admire Mr. T. Mills work.
Because this is funny, like I've booked multiple classes of Mr. T. Mills from Trampolines Studio.
Yes, Trampolines Studio, yes.
And then it always gets cancelled.
It gets cancelled.
We got to make that happen.
So I have, I messaged him one time like, hey, I admire your work.
This is what I like about your work and such.
And he's so generous of replying back.
So we got to make that happen, Darwin.
Maybe this is our first collaborative effort here on this podcast and then we'll make
sure we get some clay work in soon.
Yeah.
So besides Mr. T. Mills, I have followed, her name is S. Devlin since I know about her
work.
She's a stage designer and artist for concert theaters, fashion shows and other range of
media.
So she often uses light mapping and projected film into kinetic sculptural forms, meaning
that she challenges the given space by creating an experience through design.
Yeah, you know, my list and I had to kind of narrow it down a little bit.
I think it reflects kind of my eclectic interest in making and creating and expression.
I mean, I've always been drawn to the work of Alexander Calder, who, you know, I have
dabbled in working with steel and welding and but he's, you know, he designed these
gigantic mobiles, right?
And so large sculptures that were moving with the space that they're in, you know, the slightest
breeze can move these gigantic sculptures.
I really appreciate his work.
Andy Goldsworthy, who works out in natural settings, working with leaves and branches
and stone and water and time and rhythm.
And he does these sculptures in situ that are out in nature.
Some of them are there longer than others, but I love the work that he does and how he
really just takes what's there and rearranges it and makes and creates from what he has
and draws us into his work through his, his forms and his, his posture and his work.
Mako Fujimura, who's a Japanese American abstract expressionist painter, but he's working in
the Japanese discipline of Nihon-ga, which is where the painter will actually pulverize
and make their own mineral pigments.
So he works with some of the same mineral pigments or minerals, I guess, that I use
as a ceramic artist as well.
But I really appreciate his melding of many different worlds, but that, you know, the
abstract expressionist work through this traditional Japanese painting discipline.
And then of course, I mean, one, one art Japanese ceramic artist, Soji Hamada, and then an English
ceramic artist, Bernard Leach.
And those two really had a wonderful friendship back in the like 1920s and just really appreciate
both their craft and then kind of how they shared ideas and their cultural backgrounds
and just had a wonderful working and friendship, you know, working relationship and friendship
throughout their lifetime.
So Hamada just exhibits, you know, what is, what are some of those amazing qualities of
Japanese discipline and art form just in his ceramic work as well.
So a few, a few, sorry.
That's okay.
That's my shortlist.
Well, let's move on to something a little less serious.
We've prepared a designer pop quiz for you.
It's a true or false quiz.
You each have a set of questions to ask each other.
And for our listeners sake, neither one of our guests know what the questions are.
So to both of you, good luck.
Okay, Mr. Tim, why don't you lead us off with the first quiz question for Mr. Darwin.
All right.
So the first question for you, Darwin, Whining's tea used the same logo for 150 years before
changing the font and adding the lion crest.
I think that's false.
It is false.
Good, correct.
Correct.
Good job with the logo and font has remained unchanged for 227 years.
That's amazing.
It is.
227 years.
Shows you good design.
Doesn't style.
That's right.
Longevity in a logo design.
As long as America.
Yeah.
All right.
Mr. Darwin.
It takes 400 milliseconds for a logo to be recognized by a visual context of the brain.
True or false?
True.
That's correct.
So true.
That's most equivalent to a person blankie.
Second question.
The two most popular fonts in 1957 were Helvetica and Universe.
I think that's true.
True is correct.
ICS uses Helvetica.
They continue.
There we go.
They continue to be some of the most popular fonts today as well.
Incredible.
All right.
Starting price of a good high quality professional made logo is $50.
$50.
Five zero.
I'm going to say true.
False.
They start from $199.
Okay.
I should be trading more on this.
That seems pretty cheap too.
Really?
That seems pretty cheap too.
I should look up that.
Yeah.
That's true or not.
Okay.
Next.
All right.
Third question for you, Darwin.
Here we go.
The maximum file size of a logo that can be posted online is 200 kilobytes.
I think that's true.
That is true.
This ensures that the logo isn't too large for most servers and takes up less space for
users.
Good job.
You're three for three.
All right.
Ready?
Yes.
The total number of logo design services in the US is estimated to be $3 billion.
True or false?
False.
It's true.
This number includes small, medium and large size businesses.
Okay.
Just make him lose.
All right.
Number four.
Here we go.
People generally spend 20 to 30 minutes making their own logo without help from a professional.
That's true.
False.
They generally spend five to 15 minutes to make their own logo.
Five minutes.
Wow.
It costs about $450 to submit a basic logo trademark application.
True.
It's false.
A basic logo trademark application actually costs around $325.
Okay.
All right.
I need to brush up on some of these.
Okay.
Last question for you.
Here we go.
Levi.
Levi is a Levi Strauss company.
Levi is jeans.
Levi used their current logo first in 1995.
Their current logo first in 1995.
I think that's true.
It is false.
Okay.
They started using it in 1886.
Since it has been so successful, they continue to use it.
All right.
Wow.
Yeah.
Pretty amazing.
All right.
Last question for you.
So nine years ago, Starbucks filed a 6,000 British pounds lawsuit against a coffee shop
in Bangkok that was reportedly using the similar logo.
True or false?
I'm going to say true.
And I think I know that...
I think I've seen that little brand.
Okay.
Am I right?
True.
Oh, yeah.
They used a similar logo to Starbucks.
It was named Starbomb.
Starbomb coffee that actually sounds like familiar to a little coffee shop that used
to be on the school property called Star Books.
Oh, yeah.
That's right.
Oscar Wilde once said, imitation is the greatest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to
greatness.
Wow.
That's right.
Okay.
All right.
Well, thank you guys for giving each other a quiz.
Who won that?
I think Darwin.
Darwin won that, maybe?
I think he's by one, maybe two.
We kind of put you on the spot, but thank you.
It's okay.
I mean, I got to brush up on this.
So let's jump into our final question.
And our final question is a fun one.
What's one place in the world that you'd love to visit, a place you may gain inspiration
from, someplace you've not been before?
China.
I mean, China has such a rich cultural history, ancient.
And I think for me as a ceramic artist, I would love to really spend some time there.
And it's, you know, in some ways, I mean, there's just such a rich ceramic history there.
I've been to Korea, I've been to Japan.
I appreciate it.
But those cultures would love to spend more time in those countries.
But yeah, as far as a new nation, I would love to visit China.
Gotcha.
What about you, Darwin?
So I've never been out of Southeast Asia.
So my goal is to go to Italy, probably because of the culture there and all the art forms.
And the food.
Yeah, the food there.
And probably because I saved so much on Instagram about Italy.
Oh, yes.
So that's my answer.
Yeah, awesome.
Okay, as we end this episode, we'd like to thank our guests for joining and discussing
the topic of design, something that we see, use and live with daily.
It has been especially fascinating to learn about design and education and the design
process.
So thank you.
Please stay tuned for more episodes about exciting and engaging topics.
Our next episode is about music and sound, and you won't want to miss it.
As always, this podcast would not be possible without the hard work and support of our international
student production team.
All music and sound effects are courtesy of Pixabay.com, a vibrant community of creatives
sharing copyright free images, videos and music.
And we are signing off until next time.
We are Students Incorporated, because your voice matters.