1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,640 Welcome to Students Incorporated, a podcast exploring the topics of business, education, 2 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:16,160 technology and design. 3 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:17,600 I'm your host, Mr. Jason. 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:23,960 Join me weekly as my team and I produce content that's informative, positive, fun and uplifting. 5 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:28,440 Episodes include student conversations, interviews with thought leaders and inspirational stories 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:29,800 with an international flavor. 7 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:34,000 This podcast is created and produced with the help of students from the International 8 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,480 Community School of Bangkok. 9 00:00:38,480 --> 00:00:41,360 Hello and welcome back to Students Incorporated. 10 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,760 We're glad you're here and thanks for tuning in. 11 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:45,680 I'm your host, Mr. Jason. 12 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,520 For our first segment, we're joined by co-hosts, Premi and Rebecca. 13 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:54,080 And we have the privilege of talking with Ms. Sam Fox of HarperCollins Publishers out 14 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:55,080 of New York City. 15 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,040 We'll get to hear a little bit about her career journey into branding and marketing 16 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:04,120 and find out some of the ins and outs of what her job is like at a large publishing company. 17 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,840 Then for segment two, we'll continue with part three of our story, The Secrets of El 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:08,840 Dorado. 19 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,760 So stick around as we have an exciting and jam-packed episode. 20 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,360 But before we jump into our discussion with Sam, let's hear our quote of the day and 21 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:17,840 get some headline news. 22 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,720 Hey everyone, I'm Rebecca and your quote of the day comes from David Bradham. 23 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,540 He said, Marketing is telling the world you are a rock star. 24 00:01:26,540 --> 00:01:28,560 Publishing is showing the world you can play. 25 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,760 This quote highlights the contrast between marketing and publishing. 26 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:37,920 Marketing is about claiming excellence, like declaring you are a rock star, while publishing 27 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:43,620 is the act of proving it, like demonstrating you actually do have musical talent by performing. 28 00:01:43,620 --> 00:01:49,080 This emphasizes that genuine credibility and reputation come from showing actual skills 29 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:53,040 and value most just from promoting or talking about it. 30 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:54,700 And that's our quote of the day. 31 00:01:54,700 --> 00:01:56,280 Now onto some headline news. 32 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,160 Thank you, Rebecca. 33 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,120 Now here's some headline marketing news from around the world. 34 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:06,640 With 2023 having significant inflation, beverage and food company, Acai's chief marketing 35 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,280 officer has recently talked about the importance of brand trust. 36 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:15,640 Per context, Acai had to raise prices by 15 to 20% to keep the company stable during the 37 00:02:15,640 --> 00:02:17,120 rapid inflation. 38 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:21,200 However, the price increase comes with drawbacks in demand. 39 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:26,640 As APEcon students would know, customers are less willing to buy products if the price 40 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:27,640 increases. 41 00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:31,920 In the power of marketing, Acai's strong brand image in the beverage industry allowed 42 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:36,400 it to have a strong customer retention rate even with the added costs. 43 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:41,440 The CMO, Grant McKenzie stated that the stronger your brand, the better your ability to take 44 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:42,920 price. 45 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:48,120 In addition to mentioning the company's marketing efficiency, McKenzie has also mentioned the 46 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,080 importance of effective marketing, which was highlighted in this specific scenario due 47 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:57,420 to how well the company's marketing strategy contributed to its customer retention. 48 00:02:57,420 --> 00:03:00,840 Moving on, a fast food chain, McDonald's. 49 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:06,680 Their reps recently spoke at the Market Research Society's annual conference on March 12th. 50 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:11,240 According to McDonald's, they had become trusted by three-fifths of the UK public and 51 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,960 had set out to capture the remaining two-fifths through the use of comedy and creativity by 52 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:20,560 adding elements of humor in their new campaign called Keep Up with the Times. 53 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:25,480 In this campaign, they depicted the negative views on McDonald's as outdated and misinformed 54 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,440 when it came to the quality of their food, something that McDonald's say they placed 55 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,640 a heavy emphasis on. 56 00:03:31,640 --> 00:03:36,600 This marketing decision was an attempt to penetrate further into a customer-based displays, 57 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:41,160 the methods that companies use to modernize themselves and gain more customers. 58 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:46,360 And finally, moving on to our last news piece, in their latest software update, Google has 59 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,840 recently updated their search engine core this month, which will reduce the damage done 60 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:55,640 by the harmful uses of AI technology that skews search results and take over expired 61 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:00,920 domains that are then converted into hubs for links, which are both considered spam. 62 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:05,520 Google's core update has also added host sites that rely on other sites to market their 63 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,760 content to their list of targets. 64 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,780 The update rose out next month and will likely help with interruptions and inconveniences 65 00:04:11,780 --> 00:04:15,860 caused by the new surge in technology and digital marketing that are a source of many 66 00:04:15,860 --> 00:04:21,640 internet users' annoyances and would hopefully remove the massive amounts of spam advertising. 67 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,100 And that ends our headline news. 68 00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:28,200 We are back for our first segment of this episode. 69 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:33,320 We have the privilege of talking with Ms. Sam Fox of HarperCollins Publishers all the 70 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,120 way over in New York City. 71 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,760 Premi will kick off this segment with our first question. 72 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,980 Hello, and thank you so much for coming on the show. 73 00:04:40,980 --> 00:04:44,280 Could you please introduce yourself and give us a brief overview of what you do? 74 00:04:44,280 --> 00:04:46,240 Hi, thank you for having me. 75 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,160 My name is Sam Fox. 76 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:54,880 I am the Director of Content Creation and Marketing Strategy for HarperCollins Publishers. 77 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:59,280 Before coming to Harper, I was the marketing brand lead at Teen Vogue. 78 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:04,440 And the majority of my role is managing a team of digital marketing managers, social 79 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:11,360 media managers, video producers, and other types of marketers to create content about 80 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,960 our wonderful books and share it across all of our platforms so that we can connect the 81 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,000 fans of our books, connect with the fans of the books that we publish. 82 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:21,720 Wow, that sounds amazing. 83 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:26,120 Can you share a little bit about your journey from university to where you are now and what 84 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:27,120 inspired you? 85 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,380 Yeah, of course. 86 00:05:29,380 --> 00:05:32,560 So I was actually a dance major in university. 87 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:37,440 I was training to be a professional dancer, so clearly very different from what I'm 88 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:38,440 doing now. 89 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:43,520 But I did, I had an English double major and I always loved reading and writing. 90 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,960 Then I was an editor for a college newspaper. 91 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:51,920 So by the time I was ready to start thinking about graduating, I decided that despite all 92 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:57,160 of my training, I was no longer interested in pursuing a career in dance. 93 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,120 And I started looking into journalism instead. 94 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:05,840 And so I ended up doing this fellowship for the end of my senior year at AOL. 95 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:11,360 And in that role, I learned how to discover and write breaking news, manage social media 96 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:16,840 channels, interview celebrities for special features, all that kind of stuff. 97 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:22,080 And I ended up going there full time when I graduated and learning so much from that. 98 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:27,960 And then I received a call from Teen Vogue about six months later asking me to interview 99 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,640 for a position that they were looking to fill. 100 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:36,000 And the catch was that rather than it being an editorial position, it was a marketing 101 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,280 position on the social media marketing team. 102 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:43,520 And so at first I wasn't sure I wanted to switch to a marketing role, but I took the 103 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,760 interview and when they told me all of the amazing things that Teen Vogue was planning 104 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:52,560 to publish and these big moments that they wanted to establish and all these stories 105 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:57,160 that I wish I had had when I was a teenager, I decided that I wanted to be part of this 106 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:58,960 regardless of what the role was. 107 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,560 And that's how I found myself in marketing. 108 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:08,040 But in the six years I spent at Teen Vogue, I fell in love with marketing. 109 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,000 And I became just really passionate about the brand's mission and figuring out how 110 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:19,880 I could use the marketing skills I was learning to help young people understand how they can 111 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:25,200 make an impact on the areas that they care about and how they can feel seen and heard. 112 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,560 So then I decided to take those marketing skills and bring them over to the publishing 113 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:35,160 industry because I loved books more than anything in the world and was curious about what it 114 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,040 was like to work in publishing. 115 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:44,880 And so yes, I switched over to that industry where I'm now handling a lot of our marketing 116 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,720 and really just what I realized through all of this is that at the end of the day what 117 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:54,680 inspires me and the reason I do it is because I'm passionate about helping these young people 118 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,840 and working on brands that focus on making young people feel seen and heard. 119 00:07:58,840 --> 00:07:59,840 That is so inspiring. 120 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:01,440 I love that so, so much. 121 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,920 And that's crazy too for like a dance major and then like following all the places to 122 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:07,000 where you are now. 123 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,080 We were wondering if you could describe your experiences from past work and how that has 124 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:12,960 helped you in your current position. 125 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:14,200 Yeah, definitely. 126 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,360 I think, you know, I think no matter what you're doing, even if it's something that's 127 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,400 a completely different industry or role, you can take things that you've learned previously 128 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,640 and bring them into the next. 129 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:29,400 So for me, working at AOL taught me how to run social media platforms for a brand and 130 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,400 what the reporting and analytics side of all of it looks like. 131 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:39,080 And you know, I took that with me to Teen Vogue and then, you know, then I was able 132 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:44,280 to amp up our social media marketing strategy and, you know, partner with influencers on 133 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:45,280 various platforms. 134 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,860 I learned a lot about influencers when I was at AOL. 135 00:08:48,860 --> 00:08:52,720 And then working at Teen Vogue, I learned how to brainstorm, propose, and execute all 136 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:58,440 these different marketing campaigns and brand partnerships and how to be a team leader. 137 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,840 And most importantly, I think at Teen Vogue, I learned that marketing at its core is another 138 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,600 form of storytelling and that the most successful marketers are the ones who care about the 139 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,680 brand's story and want to share it with the world. 140 00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:16,200 So I took that with me to my current position and try to inspire my team to, you know, do 141 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,400 everything through the lens of storytelling. 142 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:24,320 And I think the sales numbers matter, but at the end of the day, sales isn't just about 143 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,360 getting people to click on an ad and purchase your product. 144 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,960 You know, when an audience engages and interacts with your brand, they're more likely to turn 145 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:36,000 to you when they're looking to buy products, which in my case is books. 146 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:41,480 So that's just a little kind of spiel on how, you know, all of it has tied together and 147 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:46,360 how even though it seemingly doesn't make sense, it does work when you put it in that 148 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:47,360 perspective. 149 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:48,360 Does it? 150 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:49,360 Does it? 151 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,840 I think a lot of marketing is storytelling because I think that's a lot of what we 152 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:54,480 learned to hear in marketing class. 153 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:55,960 It is storytelling. 154 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:01,760 And then yeah, and then storytelling to sell books, which is another story, right? 155 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,920 What does your job description look like? 156 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,800 What's an average work week look like for you? 157 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,960 Every week looks very different. 158 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,880 And you know, I purposely try to find roles where that's the case because I like to get 159 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:19,560 my hands dirty in different areas that really kind of get involved in different things on 160 00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:21,240 a day to day. 161 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,960 So in any given week, I might participate in brainstorms with the social media and video 162 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:30,440 teams to come up with really fun concepts that show off a certain book that we're trying 163 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,360 to market to our readers. 164 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,800 I might spend time in the studio helping to film that content. 165 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,240 Maybe I'm getting on calls with authors to discuss marketing plans for their upcoming 166 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:46,720 books and how we'll be working together, meeting with authors at various events or in the office 167 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:52,440 to take videos of them hyping up their books, giving presentations to company leaders to 168 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,680 share what our numbers are looking like and how we're strategizing for upcoming books 169 00:10:56,680 --> 00:11:02,480 we plan to market, working with retail partners and influencers, you know, campaigns that 170 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,160 we're doing with them or planning big brands. 171 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,520 That sounds really busy, but so, so, so, so cool. 172 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,880 I cannot get over how you can meet so many authors. 173 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:17,800 I don't do all of those things at the same time on a single day, so it is fun out. 174 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,760 Moving on, if you could walk us through the process of developing a marketing campaign 175 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:22,760 for a new book. 176 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:23,760 Yes, definitely. 177 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:28,280 So when you're developing a marketing campaign for a new book, it's all about determining 178 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:33,120 what your main goals are for that book and figuring out the right ways to reach those 179 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:34,120 goals. 180 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:38,200 So for example, if we're working with a brand new author who's never published a 181 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:43,880 book before, we would want to focus on, you know, a getting people to buy the book and 182 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:48,320 B introducing the author to, you know, book readers everywhere. 183 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:54,400 So therefore our campaign might include retailer partnerships and general advertisements that 184 00:11:54,400 --> 00:12:00,200 drive direct sales on adding the book to lists on our website where it makes sense and also 185 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,520 working with the author by bringing them into our office and taking a video of them introducing 186 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,440 themselves and sharing some fun facts that readers should know about. 187 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,400 But if we're working with a bestselling author who's publishing their 20th book, you know, 188 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:18,240 we might focus more on sort of their fandoms and reaching the readers who already know 189 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:24,320 and love this author, which means we probably need more into like influencer posts on TikTok, 190 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,760 sending early copies of the books to mega fans, sending the author on a tour around 191 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,800 the country to meet with fans in their towns and things like that. 192 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,680 So it's really kind of case by case depending on what the book is and who the author is. 193 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:41,680 Oh yeah, that makes sense for like different authors to process what look a little different 194 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:44,640 and like personalized to that book and that author, right? 195 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,720 And then author tours, book tours around. 196 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:49,680 Oh, that's crazy. 197 00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:50,680 I love that though. 198 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:52,060 That must be so, so, so fun. 199 00:12:52,060 --> 00:12:54,080 And do you get to go on these tours as well? 200 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,200 Normally I don't, but I did get really lucky. 201 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:03,520 In 2022, I was able to go on a week long tour with six of our bestselling authors all around 202 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:04,520 the country. 203 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,960 And the author is called White Out and Black Out series. 204 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,400 It was very, very cool. 205 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,120 I remember asking you, I remember asking you, it was like, I love this book. 206 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:16,120 Have you heard of it? 207 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,920 And you're like, have I heard of it on tour? 208 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:25,760 I just read this book called White Out and I was like, I was just on tour for a book 209 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:26,760 called White Out. 210 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,200 And I was like, no, no, actually, and then this happens all the time. 211 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,240 But book tours, so, so, so cool. 212 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,400 In what ways does a publisher collaborate with the author, especially in the marketing 213 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:38,400 of the book? 214 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,160 So for this, you know, that's a great question. 215 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:45,840 It really depends on who the author is and what book they're publishing. 216 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,320 You know, we always start a marketing campaign for a new book by getting on a call with the 217 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,080 author, walking them through our plans so that they're looped in on everything that 218 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:58,800 we're doing and they can provide suggestions, they can ask questions. 219 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:03,200 We might also ask the author to get involved by filming some content with us or attending 220 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,120 events depending on what's needed. 221 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,520 So sometimes, you know, we get on the call and that's really all we're going to see of 222 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,840 the author for the majority of the campaign. 223 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,480 And sometimes we get on the call and that's just the start of a relationship where we'll 224 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,480 be seeing them very often. 225 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,280 And that really just depends on sort of what the main goals are for their marketing campaign 226 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,400 and how involved we need them to be. 227 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,160 That's really insightful. 228 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,000 And like you said again, right, like each book or each author, the process would look 229 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,000 a little different. 230 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,160 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 231 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:37,080 And how would you measure success when you're running a marketing campaign? 232 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,920 Are there certain metrics that you collect? 233 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:44,160 Yeah, so this is a really great question because I think it reaffirms why it's so important 234 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:49,720 to start every marketing campaign by establishing what our goals are for that campaign. 235 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:54,880 So if a goal was to generate as many book sales as possible, then we would measure success 236 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,320 by looking at sales growth during the timeframe of that campaign. 237 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:04,040 If the goal was to generate buzz and excitement for an upcoming title, if you weren't as concerned 238 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:09,280 about sales in that sort of pre-order phase, then we'll measure success by looking at the 239 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,680 engagement metrics of the content that we produce to see how many people interact with 240 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:14,680 the content. 241 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,800 So success can look different for different campaigns. 242 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:22,280 It's always important to be clear about what success metrics you're prioritizing before 243 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,120 you dive into the work of the campaign. 244 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:30,800 Could you share about any campaign that went really well and maybe some that did not and 245 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:31,800 why? 246 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:32,800 I can. 247 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:38,280 I won't share the names of the books or office so as not to embarrass anyone or share any 248 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,600 information that they might not want me to. 249 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:45,760 But I can be kind of vague about it and say that we worked on a campaign where we wanted 250 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:47,400 to generate excitement for the book. 251 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:52,720 It was the final book in a really big series and we decided to create a book trailer that 252 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,240 showed a bunch of the elements from the book. 253 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:59,640 So we had like the capsule and the dragon breathing fire and all these really cool things 254 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,400 that made it look more like a movie trailer than a book trailer. 255 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:08,200 And we set that video up to play on billboards all over New York City in addition to our 256 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:09,480 social media channels. 257 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,920 So it was a really cool moment for me like being in the subway and seeing a video that 258 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,160 my team produced like playing on a billboard. 259 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,920 And you know that we had the opportunity to go to the office to make TikTok videos in 260 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,760 which we all begged her to tell us how the series ends. 261 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,080 But like the concept of the video that we didn't know she obviously never actually 262 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:29,080 tells us. 263 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:34,000 But the video was super viral which was awesome to see that you know we clearly found something 264 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,320 that fans were excited about. 265 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,840 And then that same day we took the author to a bookstore where hundreds of fans were 266 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,320 waiting to ask her questions and take photos with her. 267 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:48,160 So altogether it was really kind of a 360 campaign that did really well. 268 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:53,560 When it comes to campaigns that don't perform well I think the biggest mistake is trying 269 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,960 to do something that works for another book or author that was extremely different from 270 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,640 the book and author that we're working with now. 271 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:05,440 So for example you know if one author's video introducing all of their book characters did 272 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:10,400 really well for them that doesn't mean it'll do well for another author who saw that video 273 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,040 and wants to try something similar. 274 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,120 So maybe the plot doesn't lend itself to that concept. 275 00:17:16,120 --> 00:17:19,020 Maybe the author isn't as comfortable on camera. 276 00:17:19,020 --> 00:17:23,520 Maybe the genre of the book reaches an audience that isn't that interested in that type of 277 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:24,520 video. 278 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:29,280 So really it's our job to recognize that no two books are the same and no two authors 279 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:30,280 are the same. 280 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,920 And we have to really kind of cater to the strength of the books and the author. 281 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,320 Yeah that makes sense. 282 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,920 For different books yeah and even though like an author might see like something similar 283 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:46,640 but it might not work depending on the plot because every story, every book is so so different 284 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,680 and like so unique to itself and its elements too. 285 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,320 But talking about like campaigns that didn't work well that's crazy. 286 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:58,600 Seeing like you said like on the billboard that is that is absolutely crazy and honestly 287 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:04,700 that is the coolest idea because really some big series and and their plot so is authors 288 00:18:04,700 --> 00:18:06,640 are just too good at hiding. 289 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,040 Hiding little details and then they never tell. 290 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:14,320 And like those are some fun things about marketing too and like you know we all see billboards 291 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,920 like you go to New York City, you go to Times Square, you see all these billboards and you're 292 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:19,640 like how do they get there? 293 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,640 You know who makes that happen? 294 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:26,480 And then you realize that all you really have to do is Google it and you might be the person 295 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,000 who makes that happen you know. 296 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,360 And that's what's really fun about marketing is taking those things into your own hands 297 00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:36,520 and kind of being the person who just gets that stuff done you know. 298 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:37,520 Yeah. 299 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:43,000 So moving forward, what trends and or challenges do you foresee within the field of marketing 300 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,240 or the publishing industry? 301 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:46,240 Great question. 302 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,600 I'd say within the publishing industry the big thing that we're seeing, we're seeing 303 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,880 a lot of celebrity book clubs emerging. 304 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,360 So I'm really curious to see how that impacts the industry at large. 305 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:02,880 You know Reese Witherspoon has Reese's book club which has been around for a while now 306 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,400 and it has had a really significant impact in what readers were buying from their local 307 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:08,400 book stores. 308 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,680 We're also seeing more online and social media purchases. 309 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:17,640 I think that's something across all of marketing not just in publishing as well as the rise 310 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,520 of influencers on social media. 311 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:25,280 You know these are social media creators who have established these big followings who 312 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,720 you know have kind of created these communities online who listen to them and take their advice 313 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,120 and take their product recommendations. 314 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:37,320 So a huge thing in marketing right now is working with these people to kind of more authentically 315 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,640 share your products with their audiences. 316 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,920 I don't see that going away anytime soon. 317 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,880 And then you know this is a new trend in books but another thing we're seeing a lot is books 318 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,440 getting turned into movies or TV shows. 319 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:56,480 I don't know if any of you all saw like the semi-trend Pretty which is a huge series. 320 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,880 There's you know the Kissing Beer Center and To All The Boys I've Loved Before and you 321 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,480 know all of those. 322 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,160 And so you know that always ends up generating its own sales to the books. 323 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:12,040 Yeah that makes sense and I think I love that like authenticity right you said is like coming 324 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:13,800 up more and it's not going away. 325 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:14,800 So I love that. 326 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:20,160 And people are definitely buying like if I go to like Book Talk or like Instagram like 327 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,440 there is like its own separate like sector just for books and then like book reviews 328 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,400 and then like talking about books. 329 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:31,680 And so I can definitely see like so many people buying books from those platforms or those 330 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,440 venues a lot more. 331 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:38,160 And our final question is what advice would you give to a person who is thinking about 332 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,480 getting into the marketing field or the publishing industry? 333 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:48,200 So it's actually funny that you just mentioned Book Talk because I think my biggest piece 334 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,840 of advice is to get on Book Talk. 335 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:56,680 There's such a rise in both influencer marketing and social media marketing. 336 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:01,960 So TikTok and Instagram in general but especially Book Talk and Bookstagram which are kind of 337 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:07,880 these niche spaces that book nerds have carved out for ourselves are really the spaces that 338 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,220 publishers are paying attention to. 339 00:21:10,220 --> 00:21:14,600 So if you use those platforms for fun in your everyday life and you understand how they 340 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:20,240 work and what makes someone successful on the platforms you'll already be an asset to 341 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:25,440 the publishing industry when you go to apply for your first job just by living it and experiencing 342 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,160 it and understanding the consumer. 343 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,040 And I think you know when it comes to marketing it's all about empathy it's all about putting 344 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:36,080 yourself in the shoes of whoever you're marketing to and saying you know what would encourage 345 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,400 me to buy this product or follow this account. 346 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:46,420 And so you know when you're in the same social spaces that you know your audience is in that 347 00:21:46,420 --> 00:21:52,000 enables you to kind of be empathetic with them and figure out cool ideas that you know 348 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,600 other people who aren't in those spaces might not be thinking about. 349 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,120 That's super powerful. 350 00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:02,720 Thank you so so much again for joining us we're so so honored for you to be here and 351 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:07,120 you've taught us so many things it's been super insightful and so powerful and inspiring 352 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:11,560 to see what you've done and the advice that you give so thank you so so much. 353 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,600 Of course thank you. 354 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,120 And that ends segment one of this episode. 355 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:20,920 A big thanks to Sam for joining us virtually from New York for this interview. 356 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,520 Stick around as we continue with part three of our story for segment two right after this 357 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,360 short PSA. 358 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:34,080 Hi this is Sam Fox. 359 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:40,200 I work in marketing at HarperCollins Publishers and I am a guest on the Students Incorporated 360 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,640 podcast this week. 361 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:48,280 Make sure to check out the new books that have recently come out or are coming out soon. 362 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:53,600 We've got Infinity Kings by Adam Silvera, Under its Red Rock by Nidhi McGinnis and The 363 00:22:53,600 --> 00:23:01,560 Lilies by Quinn Diacon Furcato. 364 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,600 We are back for our second segment and we will continue with part three of our story 365 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,120 titled The Map. 366 00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:12,280 But first Premi will give us a quick recap from our last episode. 367 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,800 In the last episode Lily, Ava and Sierra head to the sciences department at the college 368 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,440 hoping to get to the bottom of Chen's mysterious texts. 369 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:25,160 As it turns out they meet Professor Charpton from the sciences department and he lets them 370 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,800 know that Chen is an assistant to one of the professors in the history department. 371 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,400 When they arrived they met none other than Professor Hawthorne from the history department 372 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,040 who Chen had been a lab assistant for. 373 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,440 Professor Hawthorne had said that Chen has not been answering his calls either and says 374 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,680 that that is very unlike him. 375 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,240 He then finds an old piece of paper with ancient Chinese characters. 376 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,160 He realizes later they matched the characters from a document in the filing cabinet from 377 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,040 a long long time ago. 378 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,200 These are the two things on his mind as he makes his way to Ethan's cafe, that and his 379 00:23:58,200 --> 00:23:59,420 favorite sandwich. 380 00:23:59,420 --> 00:24:01,000 And that's where we left off. 381 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,640 Thank you Premi and without further ado let's get back into our story where we join Ava, 382 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:26,160 Lily, Sierra, Ethan and the professor. 383 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,200 Sierra Ava and Lily are back in the cafe. 384 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:34,560 Sierra has clocked back in and is busy again behind the counter taking customer orders, 385 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,920 cleaning tables and doing dishes. 386 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,600 She catches Ethan out of the corner of her eye waving her over to his laptop that's 387 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,760 sitting on one of the counters behind the main bar area. 388 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,440 Hey, check this out. 389 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,000 Ethan tells Sierra as he points to his laptop screen and shows her a map of the squiggly 390 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,000 lines on it. 391 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,720 Oh, can I have that thing back that I gave you before you left for your lunch break? 392 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:55,720 He asked. 393 00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,440 He then goes on and thanks her for testing out his newest tech device, a small tracker 394 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,360 that looks like a paperclip. 395 00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:06,260 This small device is a medium power, medium range transmitter that transmits a symbol 396 00:25:06,260 --> 00:25:08,260 ping every 30 seconds. 397 00:25:08,260 --> 00:25:11,720 Ethan kept the power and range just under the US regulations so that the device would 398 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:12,720 not have to be co-licensed. 399 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,800 Basically, Ethan wants to sell the device to his old company in the hopes that the stock 400 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,080 price will increase, which in turn will increase his personal nest egg. 401 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,840 Plus, it's just a really cool device. 402 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:30,680 Sierra looks intrigued and a little skeptical as she says, wow, that's pretty cool. 403 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:35,480 So you can basically track anywhere that device goes within a certain range? 404 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:36,480 Ethan goes on. 405 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:41,200 Yeah, and that other cool thing about it is that its range is quite large in comparison 406 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,440 to all the other products on the market. 407 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:44,440 It's small and powerful. 408 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:49,440 I've made several prototypes and I'm just now testing them with the software I wrote. 409 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,240 The mapping software I created then shows the location of that device in real time. 410 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,560 So that's what you are looking at, where you went the last hour and a half during your 411 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,080 lunch break. 412 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,560 It looks like you went to the college campus and spent some time in two different buildings. 413 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,360 Sierra is standing there with a straight face. 414 00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:13,360 She's not really wanting to hear all the technical details about the device, nor is she super 415 00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:18,680 thrilled that she was unknowingly testing a tracking device for one of Ethan's side 416 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,000 projects. 417 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,400 Don't get her wrong, she likes it and thinks it's cool, but she's also thinking about all 418 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:29,440 the other tasks she has to finish during her shift before she can clock out and go home. 419 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,760 Meanwhile, Ava and Lily are back sitting together again in the cafe. 420 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,520 Since most of the double tables are occupied already, they're sitting up at the bar counter 421 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,640 opposite of where Ethan and Sierra are having their conversation behind the bar. 422 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,480 Lily is asking Ava a lot of questions about some of Ava's past articles she's written 423 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:47,760 for the bee. 424 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,040 Professor Hawthorne answers the cafe and heads right to the counter to place his order. 425 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:56,880 I'll take my usual, thank you, as he tells one of the other cafe employees who's working 426 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,880 the register. 427 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,480 He notices an open seat at the bar counter and goes to sit down. 428 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,040 Right then, he realizes it's next to Ava and Lily. 429 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,960 Oh, we meet again, he says, as the two girls turn around to see who the person is that's 430 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:11,280 going to sit next to them. 431 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:12,920 Do you mind if I sit here? 432 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:13,920 He asks. 433 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,860 I usually sit up at the bar when I come in for lunch, since I'm typically in a hurry 434 00:27:17,860 --> 00:27:19,800 and I'm by myself. 435 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,320 No problem, Lily replied. 436 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:27,160 Ava notices right away that Professor Hawthorne had brought his briefcase and had it sitting 437 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,240 up on the counter where he got situated. 438 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,920 She watched as he struggled to find a place to set the briefcase down. 439 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,000 Professor Hawthorne opened up the briefcase and pulled out the old manila folder and a 440 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,840 folded up piece of paper and set them on the counter in front of himself. 441 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:46,160 He then shut the briefcase and set it down on the floor next to his bar stool. 442 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:51,360 Since bar stools stand higher than regular table chairs, he had an awkward time sitting 443 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:55,200 back up straight after setting the briefcase down on the floor. 444 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,700 Ava watched all this happening and then saw Professor Hawthorne accidentally knock the 445 00:27:59,700 --> 00:28:03,360 middle folder off the counter as he was sitting back up. 446 00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:08,200 The folder and the old manuscript that was inside fell on the opposite side of the counter 447 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,280 behind the bar. 448 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,440 Professor Hawthorne said under his breath, but loud enough so Lily and Ava could hear 449 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,200 him, Oh man, well, look at that. 450 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,280 I guess you can't take me anywhere. 451 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:23,160 Lily quickly offered to help pick up the papers that had fallen out of the folder, but felt 452 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,400 a little timid since they had fallen behind the bar. 453 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:31,240 Ava quickly scanned the cafe looking for a staff member of which they were all busy doing 454 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,000 something else in another part of the shop. 455 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,920 Ethan had gone to the back room to take a phone call a minute earlier and Sarah was 456 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,440 busy taking several customer orders up at the cash register. 457 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,280 Ava quickly reacted and said, I'll grab them for you since Sarah won't have a problem 458 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,920 with me sneaking behind the counter for a second. 459 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,480 Ava went around the back of the bar counter and started picking up all the papers that 460 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:53,600 had fallen. 461 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,160 She noticed that all the papers look quite old and worn. 462 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,520 She thought to herself, this looks interesting. 463 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,080 I wonder what Professor Hawthorne is up to. 464 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,460 After she had gathered all the papers off the floor, she noticed several paper clips 465 00:29:08,460 --> 00:29:11,300 sitting on the counter next to the laptop. 466 00:29:11,300 --> 00:29:15,400 She picked up one of the paper clips and attached all the pages together and then walked around 467 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,280 the counter and handed the sack of paper to Professor Hawthorne. 468 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,280 There you go. 469 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:20,280 She says, 470 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,960 Thank you so much, Professor Hawthorne tells Ava. 471 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:28,200 As he's waiting for his lunch, he asks Ava and Lily, how do you all know each other? 472 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:29,200 Ava responds first. 473 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,360 Sarah and I grew up together in Coloma, but we went to different colleges. 474 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,520 I'm back here visiting right now for work. 475 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,080 The Bee has me doing a series of articles on the Gold Rush Festival this summer. 476 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,240 Oh, I see, says Professor Hawthorne. 477 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:46,960 Lily chimes in and says, I come to Ethan's a lot, especially during the school year, 478 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,400 to study and hang out with my friends. 479 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,860 Sarah was always so kind allowing us to sit at the big table and study. 480 00:29:53,860 --> 00:29:56,080 Of course, we needed to buy drinks or food. 481 00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,480 Oh, by the way, I really enjoyed taking forensic archaeology from you last year. 482 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:06,600 It was super helpful to learn about how archaeology can assist criminal investigations. 483 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,240 Professor Hawthorne responds to Lily. 484 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:09,240 Oh, thank you. 485 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,440 That's actually one of my favorite classes to teach because it's practical, more skills 486 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,560 based and less academic than most classes that I teach. 487 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:22,560 Professor Hawthorne goes on, Coloma is a small town and it's a close knit community. 488 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,320 Everybody knows everybody and you got to be okay with everybody knowing your business. 489 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,880 For sure, Eva replies. 490 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,560 That's one of the reasons I wanted to go to university away from home actually. 491 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,200 Oh, that and Cal State has a great journalism program. 492 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:41,160 By this time, Sierra was done with some of the rush orders, grabbed Professor Hawthorne's 493 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,540 order and walked back over to where they were all sitting up at the bar. 494 00:30:45,540 --> 00:30:51,320 She handed Professor Hawthorne his sandwich and iced tea and interrupted and said, So 495 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,600 have you found out what happened to this guy Chen yet? 496 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,440 Professor Hawthorne was just about to take a big bite out of his sandwich when he heard 497 00:30:58,440 --> 00:30:59,840 Sierra's question. 498 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,680 He put the sandwich back down on the plate and pointed to the manuscript papers and the 499 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,220 note sitting next to his plate on the counter. 500 00:31:06,220 --> 00:31:11,780 He said, No, but I did bring a note Chen left me last week and an old manuscript to study 501 00:31:11,780 --> 00:31:13,120 over lunch. 502 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,960 There may be an interesting connection between the two. 503 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:21,040 Lily was looking over toward Professor Hawthorne as he opened the folded piece of paper which 504 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:26,480 had what looked like some sort of formula along with several Chinese characters scribbled 505 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:27,480 on it. 506 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,560 Lily blurted out, Those are Chinese characters. 507 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,000 Did Chen write these? 508 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,520 As Professor Hawthorne begins answering her questions, she noticed that the characters 509 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:41,560 are not the typical and modern Chinese characters she is used to seeing. 510 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,980 Professor Hawthorne continues, Chen gave me this note as he was leaving work on Friday 511 00:31:45,980 --> 00:31:47,680 and didn't say much about it. 512 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:52,220 He just said that he wanted me to have a copy of something that he was working on and if 513 00:31:52,220 --> 00:31:55,020 I could just hold it for him for the time being. 514 00:31:55,020 --> 00:31:57,320 I didn't think much about the note at the time. 515 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,960 I glanced at it briefly and noticed there was some weird formula written along with 516 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,860 some series of Chinese characters. 517 00:32:02,860 --> 00:32:07,680 I tried my new Image to Language translation app to my phone to see if I could read the 518 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,320 characters but no luck. 519 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,160 The app did not recognize the characters so I folded it up and put it in a safe place 520 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,680 in case Chen came back for it sometime. 521 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,360 Ava, who was sitting on the stool between Professor Hawthorne and Lily, asked Professor 522 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,200 Hawthorne if she could take a photo of it and send it to one of her colleagues at the 523 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,360 Bee who is an amazing researcher. 524 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,880 I'll just send a photo of two or three of these characters but not all of them and I'll 525 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,080 see if my buddy Ted can do his magic for us. 526 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,740 He owes me a favor anyway, Ava says. 527 00:32:36,740 --> 00:32:41,640 She quickly snaps a photo of the several Chinese characters and sends Ted the photos along 528 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,320 with a short message that reads, 529 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,080 What type of Chinese characters are these? 530 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,080 You know you owe me? 531 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,360 Followed by three smiley face emojis. 532 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:55,160 As Ava is taking photos and sending Ted the text, Professor Hawthorne takes another bite 533 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,880 of his sandwich, puts it down on the plate and then starts thumbing through the manuscript 534 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,080 papers that are paper clipped together. 535 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,160 The manuscript is about 120 pages in length. 536 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,800 Makes some interesting claims about the gold from this area and also includes detailed 537 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,480 illustrations of different locations surrounding Sutter's Mill, the surrounding mountains 538 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,920 and some back horse trails. 539 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:20,720 Sierra glances over towards their direction and notices they are all talking and looking 540 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,240 very serious. 541 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:27,080 She decides to pause for a moment on her way out to the cafe's sitting area to clean up 542 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:28,640 a few tables. 543 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,920 As she walks up to where the three are sitting, she asks lightheartedly, 544 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,360 Did you solve the mystery yet? 545 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,040 Ava pipes up, nope not yet. 546 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,560 I'm actually trying to figure out this weird clue from Chen's note. 547 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,760 These Chinese characters I'm not familiar with, Li says. 548 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,120 Hmm interesting, Sierra replies. 549 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,660 Xi Dan says, Chen has nice handwriting though. 550 00:33:51,660 --> 00:33:56,200 Right at that moment and as Professor Hawthorne started taking another bite of his sandwich, 551 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,600 he pauses as he finds what he's looking for on the manuscript. 552 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,800 There on page 87 are some of the same Chinese characters written on the margins. 553 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,920 Some of the characters look similar to the characters in Chen's note. 554 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,120 Professor Hawthorne thinks to himself, there's no way this can be a coincidence. 555 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,080 Ava, who's sitting right next to Professor Hawthorne, looks down at the manuscript and 556 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:23,560 blurs out and asks, whoa, are those the same characters that are on Chen's note? 557 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:29,000 Yes, it appears that way and I have a hard time believing that this is just a coincidence, 558 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,800 replied Professor Hawthorne. 559 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:36,440 Lili and Sierra are also looking over at page 87 of the manuscript that's open on the 560 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:37,440 counter. 561 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,120 Lili asks, what's page 87 about? 562 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,680 Sierra repeats the question, yeah, what's on page 87? 563 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,640 At that moment, Ethan comes out of the back room and notices the three girls and Professor 564 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,280 Hawthorne's all staring down at something. 565 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,400 He stops and says, looks like a serious meeting here, is your sandwich okay Professor? 566 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,280 Yeah, Ethan, it's great as usual, thank you. 567 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,400 Just then, Ava's phone dings with a message from Ted. 568 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,720 She says, hey guys, Ted just texted me back and he thinks those characters look like they 569 00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:10,520 might be part of an old code, but an old code that isn't used anymore. 570 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,040 His text also said that he found a really old article in the Bee's internal online 571 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:20,040 archives that references an old Chinese telegraphic codebook that was used in the late 1800s for 572 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,640 the purpose of encoding and translating Chinese characters to Morris code used for a telegraph 573 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:25,640 machine. 574 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:30,840 So sooner did Ava get those words out, Professor Hawthorne stood up and said, Ted's exactly 575 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:31,840 right. 576 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:37,160 This manuscript, even though it may have some inaccuracies, does contain plenty of other 577 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,920 helpful information about this place, including that many of the workers who helped complete 578 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,480 the railroad line through this country after the gold rush were immigrants from mainland 579 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:47,480 China. 580 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:52,200 Professor Hawthorne turns to another page in the manuscript which describes the difficulty 581 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:58,120 many of the railroad workers had being so far from home, not knowing the local language, 582 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,880 no way to communicate with other family members, and so forth. 583 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:07,480 He goes on, if I remember correctly, the Orient in the East did not get access to use the 584 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:12,920 telegraph until the 1870s, at which time the telegraph cables were finally laid, which 585 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,360 then connected China to Russia, Europe, and North America. 586 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,720 Meanwhile, and during this entire conversation, Ethan has his back turned to the group and 587 00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:24,840 is tapping on his keyboard, almost appearing as if he wasn't even listening. 588 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,760 However, he picks up his laptop and turns it around towards the group. 589 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:33,320 As Ethan points to his laptop screen, he says, look what I found online, here's the entire 590 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,120 Chinese holographic codebook from the late 1800s. 591 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,040 Looks like it's obsolete, or at least that's what Wikipedia says now. 592 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,700 Well, maybe you could at least translate those characters now so Sierra can get back to work, 593 00:36:45,700 --> 00:36:47,280 he says with a half grin. 594 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,560 The team translates the Chinese characters from Chen's note first. 595 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,840 It's a grouping of two sets of numbers alongside two English letters. 596 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:05,120 N 38 51 21 and W 120 26 55. 597 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,780 I know exactly what these are, said Professor Hawthorne to the group. 598 00:37:09,780 --> 00:37:14,000 These are coordinates, latitude and longitude, degrees, minutes, and seconds. 599 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,280 Ethan, can you look up these and see where this is? 600 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:18,760 Asks Professor Hawthorne. 601 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,280 Ethan quickly types in the coordinates online. 602 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,680 The coordinate is pointing to a place named Silver Creek by Junction Reservoir off the 603 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,520 old El Dorado National Forest Road, Ethan replies. 604 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,800 It's southwest of the larger Union Valley Reservoir. 605 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,240 Ethan looks up at the others for a half smile. 606 00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:37,760 So is this some sort of secret message then? 607 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,720 The response, so what do we do now? 608 00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:45,760 What about the characters from the manuscript, could you look those up as well? 609 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:46,760 Ava asks Ethan. 610 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:55,440 Ethan translates the characters from the manuscripts N 38 55 28 and W 120 24 12. 611 00:37:55,440 --> 00:38:00,160 He enters in the two sets of coordinates and then says, the other set of characters translates 612 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:01,840 the coordinates as well. 613 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:07,120 Those coordinates point to Rops Peak, a 6600 foot mountain just north of the Union Valley 614 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,600 Reservoir. 615 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,760 Professor Hawthorne pulls out his phone again and tries to call Chen. 616 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,360 He's wondering to himself if there is some connection between what the author of the 617 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:20,520 manuscript is communicating so many years ago and now to what Chen is trying to communicate 618 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:21,520 or found. 619 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:26,520 Ava is taking notes as she secretly hopes this is something bigger than just a missing 620 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:27,520 person case. 621 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:32,240 Her editor at the Bee would love it and maybe even give her a promotion. 622 00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:34,480 She's cautious not to get ahead of herself though. 623 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:39,200 By the way, we aren't even sure if this even is a missing person case since Chen hasn't 624 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:47,040 technically been missing for 24 hours yet. 625 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:52,640 Sierra is studying the code table that Ethan still has open on his laptop screen, wondering 626 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:58,800 how and why Chen decided to use a coded message, sort of like making a map but without using 627 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:03,520 the typical topographical symbols. 628 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,520 And that ends part three of our story. 629 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:06,840 Thank you for listening. 630 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:23,320 Tune in next episode as we continue with part four titled Histories and Legends. 631 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:28,380 As we end this episode, we want to again give a big thanks to Ms. Sam Fox of HarperCollins 632 00:39:28,380 --> 00:39:32,840 out of New York for joining us in segment one and for sharing with us her journey into 633 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:37,360 branding and marketing and for also giving us some great advice along the way. 634 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:42,000 As always, this podcast will not be possible without the hard work and support of our international 635 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:43,760 student production team. 636 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:49,480 All music and sound effects are courtesy of Pixabay.com, a vibrant community of creatives 637 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,320 sharing copyright free images, videos, and music. 638 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,760 And we are signing off until next time. 639 00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:04,520 Be your Students Incorporated, because your voice matters.