WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.100 As they're getting comfortable, I'll read through 00:00:02.100 --> 00:00:04.280 an intro that we're going to have for each one 00:00:04.280 --> 00:00:07.639 of our panels. So I'll read that and then we'll 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:14.939 get started. Like I said, good morning. My name 00:00:14.939 --> 00:00:19.820 is Scott. We're in the third week of our Imago 00:00:19.820 --> 00:00:22.859 Dei series. As our panelists come up and get 00:00:22.859 --> 00:00:25.179 settled in, we have a primer we want to read. 00:00:25.660 --> 00:00:28.359 at the top of each of our panel discussions is 00:00:28.359 --> 00:00:31.539 a way of setting the stage. The scriptures tell 00:00:31.539 --> 00:00:34.060 us that from the beginning, we were created in 00:00:34.060 --> 00:00:37.079 the image of God, and so we bear the likeness 00:00:37.079 --> 00:00:41.579 of our creator, every single one of us. This 00:00:41.579 --> 00:00:43.859 is why for many years now, our church website 00:00:43.859 --> 00:00:47.859 has said, we welcome all persons and have no 00:00:47.859 --> 00:00:51.780 leadership limits based on race, gender, identity, 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:56.039 sexual orientation, or physical ability. for 00:00:56.039 --> 00:01:00.119 those who confess Jesus Christ as Lord. The central 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:04.760 standard is Jesus. But because of how the Bible 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:07.819 has been interpreted over the centuries, the 00:01:07.819 --> 00:01:10.900 church has often implicitly and explicitly communicated 00:01:10.900 --> 00:01:15.299 that we do not all bear the image of God or belong 00:01:15.299 --> 00:01:19.200 equally. Women have been left out or excluded 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:23.280 from leadership in the church historic. Gay, 00:01:23.379 --> 00:01:26.079 lesbian, trans, and queer folk have been promised 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:30.620 they can belong so long as they fit in. People 00:01:30.620 --> 00:01:32.980 with differently abled bodies have often been 00:01:32.980 --> 00:01:36.099 excluded or treated less than because of their 00:01:36.099 --> 00:01:39.560 physical bodies. And non -white cultures and 00:01:39.560 --> 00:01:42.439 ethnic groups have often been treated like they're 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:46.500 only here to help the quote -unquote real image 00:01:46.500 --> 00:01:52.319 bearers. It sounds ugly because it is. It doesn't 00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:56.879 sound like Jesus because it isn't. And so our 00:01:56.879 --> 00:01:59.439 panel discussions during the Imago Dei series 00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:03.819 are meant to be a kind of promise, not to perfection 00:02:03.819 --> 00:02:08.039 or utopia. And we aren't expecting full agreement 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:12.580 for everyone in the room about everything. But 00:02:12.580 --> 00:02:15.620 these conversations are a kind of promise that 00:02:15.620 --> 00:02:18.199 we are working and learning to be a community 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:21.990 that is safe. for people pushed to the margins, 00:02:22.229 --> 00:02:27.849 people of color, women, the disabled, and the 00:02:27.849 --> 00:02:32.250 LGBTQ plus person, because we are all created 00:02:32.250 --> 00:02:35.590 in the image of God, and no one should be left 00:02:35.590 --> 00:02:39.090 out. As we all discuss what it means for us to 00:02:39.090 --> 00:02:41.689 bear the image of God in the church and in the 00:02:41.689 --> 00:02:44.650 world, and for the church to be a safe place 00:02:44.650 --> 00:02:47.620 for us to grow in the likeness of Jesus, and 00:02:47.620 --> 00:02:49.960 the fullness of what God has created us to be, 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:53.699 will you please welcome our panel for today? 00:03:00.900 --> 00:03:03.740 I'm going to start all the way down to the end 00:03:03.740 --> 00:03:05.860 with you, Dave, and then Kathy and Liam will 00:03:05.860 --> 00:03:08.639 go to you. If each of you would introduce yourselves 00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:14.580 and your friends and why you're participating 00:03:14.580 --> 00:03:18.539 in this panel, that would be great. So this is 00:03:18.539 --> 00:03:21.000 Sweetie Paw, when you guys recognize and know 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:24.199 her. And my name's Dave Hodge. I'm here kind 00:03:24.199 --> 00:03:27.219 of just as her dad and to talk about it from 00:03:27.219 --> 00:03:30.259 a parent's perspective. And Sweetie will interject 00:03:30.259 --> 00:03:34.560 with laughs and probably chomps throughout the 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:36.819 whole entire thing. So do you want to say anything? 00:03:46.729 --> 00:03:50.270 I'm Kathy Webb. I am here because I have several 00:03:50.270 --> 00:03:52.610 different invisible or non -apparent disabilities. 00:03:57.430 --> 00:03:59.090 I'm William. You all probably know me as Liam. 00:04:00.210 --> 00:04:14.110 And what did I need to say? I've got some physical 00:04:14.110 --> 00:04:18.310 disabilities in my arm. And then like my back 00:04:18.310 --> 00:04:22.149 too. So yeah. All right. Thank you. And again, 00:04:22.290 --> 00:04:24.589 my name is Scott. I had a spinal cord injury 00:04:24.589 --> 00:04:29.209 about 10 years ago. So this year is my anniversary 00:04:29.209 --> 00:04:33.670 10 year of being in a chair. And then I also 00:04:33.670 --> 00:04:36.230 am the parent of a child with a disability. Our 00:04:36.230 --> 00:04:40.850 daughter that we were able to adopt in November, 00:04:41.009 --> 00:04:43.490 but have been caring for since birth and will 00:04:43.490 --> 00:04:46.870 be three this month has Rett syndrome. which 00:04:46.870 --> 00:04:50.410 affects her speech and her physical abilities 00:04:50.410 --> 00:04:56.149 as well. How did you initially get connected 00:04:56.149 --> 00:05:00.490 to God and church? And this time, Liam, if I 00:05:00.490 --> 00:05:03.529 can start with you, you can share, and then we'll 00:05:03.529 --> 00:05:08.930 go down and through. I mean, my dad is Pastor 00:05:08.930 --> 00:05:15.899 Greg, so I... Yeah, I grew up here pretty much. 00:05:17.420 --> 00:05:20.240 I've always known, like God and stuff. So yeah, 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:25.300 that's all. Yeah, so my parents come from two 00:05:25.300 --> 00:05:28.079 very different Christian faith traditions. So 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:31.620 they got married and didn't know what to do or 00:05:31.620 --> 00:05:34.100 where to go. So they didn't go anywhere. And 00:05:34.100 --> 00:05:36.339 then I was invited to a vacation Bible school 00:05:36.339 --> 00:05:38.579 when I was six. And we started attending that 00:05:38.579 --> 00:05:43.199 church afterwards. Yeah, and I was raised by 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:46.139 both my parents from a very young age going to 00:05:46.139 --> 00:05:49.079 church. They always taught our kids clubs and 00:05:49.079 --> 00:05:52.959 Sunday school class and was a part of a program 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:56.240 that did verse memorization as a kid, like an 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:58.660 Awanas program. And I remember being seven years 00:05:58.660 --> 00:06:00.759 old and just asking my mom what a verse meant 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:02.579 and how to explain it to me and accept your Christ 00:06:02.579 --> 00:06:04.959 at that point. And then it has always been a 00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:08.459 place of safety in my life and community the 00:06:08.459 --> 00:06:11.990 church has just kind of. Moving around a lot 00:06:11.990 --> 00:06:14.490 and getting involved in ministry. Also went on 00:06:14.490 --> 00:06:17.730 to college and got a degree in ministry. Have 00:06:17.730 --> 00:06:19.310 been a part of a lot of nonprofits and stuff. 00:06:19.870 --> 00:06:24.050 And then Sweetie came into our care and has been 00:06:24.050 --> 00:06:28.810 with us for going on six years almost now. So 00:06:28.810 --> 00:06:30.370 yeah, so she's just kind of been a part of our 00:06:30.370 --> 00:06:35.029 lives since then. Awesome. And for me, similar 00:06:35.029 --> 00:06:38.269 to Liam, I'm a pastor's kid. So I was at church 00:06:38.269 --> 00:06:41.060 every Sunday for as long as I can remember. whether 00:06:41.060 --> 00:06:44.579 I wanted to be there or not, and it stuck. I 00:06:44.579 --> 00:06:47.560 like being there, so I'm still there and still 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:54.839 a part. I'll start with you again, Liam. Have 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:58.800 you found it difficult or natural to accept how 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:04.339 you were made or your current physicality? I 00:07:04.339 --> 00:07:13.410 feel like since... I mean, like, yeah, I guess 00:07:13.410 --> 00:07:16.949 I've been this way for the majority of my life. 00:07:17.509 --> 00:07:22.509 So if it is natural, it's just because it's, 00:07:22.589 --> 00:07:27.529 like, most of what I've known, I guess. So, yeah, 00:07:27.649 --> 00:07:32.709 I guess I would say, like, I've come natural 00:07:32.709 --> 00:07:36.129 to it. So you've gotten comfortable with, you 00:07:36.129 --> 00:07:39.550 know, the body that you have. Yeah, I make do 00:07:39.550 --> 00:07:49.269 with it. Both. There are some parts of me that 00:07:49.269 --> 00:07:52.610 are easier than others. So I think, like, I have 00:07:52.610 --> 00:07:54.250 a chronic pain disability, amongst some other 00:07:54.250 --> 00:07:57.410 things, and that one tends to be weirdly easier 00:07:57.410 --> 00:08:00.029 to deal with with other people, but not as easy 00:08:00.029 --> 00:08:03.290 with myself. So it just depends on the circumstances 00:08:03.290 --> 00:08:06.389 and with whom I'm speaking as to whether or not 00:08:06.389 --> 00:08:08.790 certain parts of me are easier or more difficult. 00:08:11.509 --> 00:08:15.300 Yeah, and so for Sweetie, she's nonverbal. has 00:08:15.300 --> 00:08:18.079 some developmental delay, has white matter changes. 00:08:19.259 --> 00:08:22.480 And so, you know, asking her questions, sweetie, 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:28.439 do you love being sweetie? She's very happy all 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:30.959 the time. This is her demeanor, who she is. From 00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:34.059 our parents' perspective, I mean, we have been 00:08:34.059 --> 00:08:36.059 all in with her from the very beginning in life. 00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:39.879 We've learned a lot and grown a lot, especially 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:45.240 around the ideas of faith. Just processing her 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:48.200 and who she is through faith. And so I think 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:51.820 we're at a very accepting place in our lives 00:08:51.820 --> 00:08:54.799 with her and who she is. And we're always learning. 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:59.840 I mean, she's new every day. Yeah, thank you. 00:09:00.940 --> 00:09:04.860 For me, it really depends on the day and situation. 00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:08.419 There's days that I wake up and think, you know, 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:11.340 hey, this is the situation I'm in. It's okay. 00:09:12.940 --> 00:09:15.399 I'm so grateful for the things I'm able to do 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:17.840 and the supports that I have. And then there's 00:09:17.840 --> 00:09:20.799 mornings I wake up and feel like this is just 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:24.200 too much work. This is too frustrating and feel 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:28.120 very frustrated. So it can go back and forth 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:32.879 for me, definitely. What do you think God feels 00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:38.600 about you? And has that changed over time? I 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:44.320 felt some acceptance. from the beginning of my 00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:47.279 disability because it happened very suddenly 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:52.659 and it just became you know at the time I was 00:09:52.659 --> 00:09:58.039 28 so I had some maturity and age and so it just 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:00.240 happened and you know I just came to the conclusion 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:04.720 pretty quickly of I had a relationship with God 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:07.840 this has happened I'll continue to have relationship 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:13.220 with God and so accepting that He understood 00:10:13.220 --> 00:10:19.460 and accepted me, came pretty naturally. And I'll 00:10:19.460 --> 00:10:22.139 remind our panelists, and just so you know, that 00:10:22.139 --> 00:10:25.960 all of them know that if there's a question that 00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:27.700 they don't really have anything to say about 00:10:27.700 --> 00:10:30.399 or don't want to speak to, then they're welcome 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:32.799 to just go ahead and say that. So not everybody 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:35.259 will have something to add to every question. 00:10:35.980 --> 00:10:37.659 Liam, do you have anything you'd like to share 00:10:37.659 --> 00:10:40.179 on this one? I just think he cares about me just 00:10:40.179 --> 00:10:42.929 as much as everybody else. So yeah, that's all. 00:10:45.190 --> 00:10:49.129 Ditto. Well, I'll talk a little bit about this. 00:10:49.169 --> 00:10:52.409 Is that okay? I'm sorry. So yeah, so with Sweetie, 00:10:52.429 --> 00:10:55.250 this has been a huge change for me personally 00:10:55.250 --> 00:10:58.509 and my thoughts of understanding religion and 00:10:58.509 --> 00:11:00.509 Christianity and faith and all those type of 00:11:00.509 --> 00:11:04.190 things. With her being nonverbal, I think a lot 00:11:04.190 --> 00:11:06.870 of people... First of all, I'll say this. I think 00:11:06.870 --> 00:11:11.370 a lot of people... I mean, Sweden's very complex. 00:11:11.789 --> 00:11:15.070 And from the first view of her, I think the judgments 00:11:15.070 --> 00:11:18.409 of, well, you know, even her schools would say 00:11:18.409 --> 00:11:20.870 that when she was first tested that she ranks 00:11:20.870 --> 00:11:24.409 around three or four years old. But she also 00:11:24.409 --> 00:11:26.990 speaks another language. She came here speaking 00:11:26.990 --> 00:11:29.549 another language. English was not her first language. 00:11:30.149 --> 00:11:33.899 So the fact that she has... and understands English, 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:36.419 and as we talk to her and can communicate in 00:11:36.419 --> 00:11:38.879 some phrases and respond to those things with 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:40.600 her feelings and match up those feelings with 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:43.480 her words when she does talk, simply saying I 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:48.100 love you or I eat or whatever she says, shows 00:11:48.100 --> 00:11:50.879 to me that she has far more capabilities of understanding 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:54.220 than what she is given. And so when it comes 00:11:54.220 --> 00:11:56.480 to faith and understanding, though, she also 00:11:56.480 --> 00:12:00.500 is not able to respond. in the typical ways that 00:12:00.500 --> 00:12:02.720 we have laid out through evangelical Christianity, 00:12:03.139 --> 00:12:06.200 of that we expect a person to respond, to accept 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:08.799 Jesus as their personal Savior, and say the prayer, 00:12:09.100 --> 00:12:11.240 and spend their life with devotion and prayer, 00:12:11.340 --> 00:12:13.039 and reading the Bible and Scripture, and all 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:16.340 those type of things. And so that has to then 00:12:16.340 --> 00:12:20.100 begin to shape, for me, differently. Like, how 00:12:20.100 --> 00:12:24.929 does God view her? Perfectly. And so for me, 00:12:24.970 --> 00:12:28.590 that is the beginning point for me of understanding 00:12:28.590 --> 00:12:32.110 faith and understanding when it comes to her 00:12:32.110 --> 00:12:35.049 that God looks at her perfectly. God's not expecting 00:12:35.049 --> 00:12:38.629 anything from her more. He just gets to enjoy 00:12:38.629 --> 00:12:41.029 her every single day. And I believe that deeply, 00:12:41.129 --> 00:12:44.470 just as much as we get to live and enjoy her 00:12:44.470 --> 00:12:46.570 every single day. And I have no expectations 00:12:46.570 --> 00:12:51.549 for her as a parent, as a father. I think it 00:12:51.549 --> 00:12:53.769 shaped a lot for me. It's changed a lot for me. 00:12:53.830 --> 00:12:56.169 It's continuing to change a lot for me and how 00:12:56.169 --> 00:12:58.870 I understand how God sees her and then how I'm 00:12:58.870 --> 00:13:01.789 able to relate that even to myself and to others 00:13:01.789 --> 00:13:04.509 about how really truly God sees us and understands 00:13:04.509 --> 00:13:07.629 us. And what are those steps that we have to 00:13:07.629 --> 00:13:09.470 take? And what does that look like? And I am 00:13:09.470 --> 00:13:11.950 still learning. I'm still growing. I don't sit 00:13:11.950 --> 00:13:14.710 here to say I'm an expert in this field. But 00:13:14.710 --> 00:13:17.309 I will say the experience of having Sweden in 00:13:17.309 --> 00:13:20.049 my life. has definitely began to shift in my 00:13:20.049 --> 00:13:22.370 mind and my heart and my understanding of how 00:13:22.370 --> 00:13:25.370 I see scripture and how I read scripture when 00:13:25.370 --> 00:13:28.450 it pertains to God's love for us, God's grace 00:13:28.450 --> 00:13:30.769 for us, what Jesus has done on the cross for 00:13:30.769 --> 00:13:34.330 us. Because if we truly believe it does not come 00:13:34.330 --> 00:13:38.690 from us earning those things or whatever that 00:13:38.690 --> 00:13:42.440 may look like. then I have to believe that for 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:46.039 God and Jesus for her also. And so I believe 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:48.539 Jesus deeply loves her, cares with her, interacts 00:13:48.539 --> 00:13:51.759 with her on a daily basis, lives with her, walks 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:54.600 with her, laughs with her, speaks to her, shows 00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:57.340 up to her in dreams and ways that I don't understand 00:13:57.340 --> 00:14:01.059 because she is constantly filled with joy and 00:14:01.059 --> 00:14:05.200 laughter. And I wish, you know, more of my life 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:07.580 reflected that of what Sweetie lives out every 00:14:07.580 --> 00:14:11.840 day. And with that, our next question is, is 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:14.080 there a certain place you go in the scriptures 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:17.840 that reminds you of that or causes you to think 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:22.159 of that? Yeah, so like for me, like the beginning 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:25.019 of the Sermon on the Mount, right, is like Jesus's 00:14:25.019 --> 00:14:28.919 first ministry. Understanding the idea that when 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:32.179 Jesus goes, begins to speak, he has a plethora 00:14:32.179 --> 00:14:34.360 of crowds, like thousands of people are following 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:37.740 him. before he ever opens his mouth. And those 00:14:37.740 --> 00:14:40.519 are people who are demon -possessed, who are 00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:43.059 sick, who have infirmities, who are coming to 00:14:43.059 --> 00:14:46.299 Jesus to be healed. And so they're all coming 00:14:46.299 --> 00:14:48.980 to Jesus, so Jesus heals them, and Jesus heals 00:14:48.980 --> 00:14:51.159 them, casts out demons, and does all of this, 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:53.940 and then he sits down, and he begins to speak 00:14:53.940 --> 00:14:56.440 to his disciples and the crowd, and the first 00:14:56.440 --> 00:14:58.360 words that come out of his mouth is what we call 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:01.460 the Beatitudes. which can be looked at a thousand 00:15:01.460 --> 00:15:02.919 different ways, but if you realize the first 00:15:02.919 --> 00:15:05.919 words out of his mouth is blessed. Blessed are 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:07.379 those who are poor. Blessed are those who are 00:15:07.379 --> 00:15:10.500 persecuted. Blessed are those who are sick. Because, 00:15:10.539 --> 00:15:12.519 then he goes on to say, because they would see 00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:14.179 the kingdom of God, they would do all these things. 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.440 Understanding that passage for me, knowing that 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:20.360 the concept of that all these people who are 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:23.720 coming to Jesus to be healed are people who have 00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:26.220 been told their whole entire lives and in that 00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:30.460 culture that they are cursed by God. In the biblical 00:15:30.460 --> 00:15:32.720 times, if you had any type of ailment, sickness, 00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:36.279 disability, injury, it's because you ticked off 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:39.539 God, and God was punishing you, and then you 00:15:39.539 --> 00:15:42.279 were removed from your home. So you had to live 00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:44.399 outside of the city walls. You were cast out. 00:15:44.659 --> 00:15:47.720 You were seen as less. You were seen as unclean. 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:51.519 So to have all these people who believe because 00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:53.980 of their infirmities, because of their disability, 00:15:54.179 --> 00:15:58.379 or whatever they had going on, by culture, by 00:15:58.379 --> 00:16:02.879 religion, that they were cursed, they come to 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:05.960 Jesus and they get the complete opposite. A, 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:09.360 they are freed of it. And then B, they're told 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:12.980 they are blessed. That you were never cursed. 00:16:13.299 --> 00:16:16.039 That you have always been loved. That in God's 00:16:16.039 --> 00:16:17.919 eyes, you have always mattered. You have always 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:22.139 been seen. So that for me is huge understanding 00:16:22.139 --> 00:16:25.440 to begin this journey of looking at. you know, 00:16:25.460 --> 00:16:27.639 and understanding sweetie through a life and 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:31.000 eyes of her disabilities and needs. And then 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:33.259 there's all kinds of stuff, right? Christ came 00:16:33.259 --> 00:16:35.279 to die on the cross, and he says, I came to give 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:38.700 you life and life to the full. It's not an afterlife 00:16:38.700 --> 00:16:41.100 to the full. It's a life currently to the full. 00:16:41.299 --> 00:16:43.899 And so I believe that Christ died for my life 00:16:43.899 --> 00:16:45.919 to be full. I believe that sweetie also gets 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:50.340 to have a full life because of that. Numerous 00:16:50.340 --> 00:16:52.980 passages. I mean, I could go on all day. with 00:16:52.980 --> 00:16:56.059 this, and I'll stop and pass it on. But I think 00:16:56.059 --> 00:16:59.779 our ideas of heaven, of getting to heaven, and 00:16:59.779 --> 00:17:01.919 we think the beauty that is heaven is there, 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:04.900 and we want to get there, but that becomes like 00:17:04.900 --> 00:17:07.839 that escapism of, well, life is hard here, and 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:10.059 so there it's going to be perfect. But then Jesus, 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:11.940 again, like in his prayer, says, right, that 00:17:11.940 --> 00:17:15.200 we pray that his kingdom come, his will be done 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:19.000 on earth, now, presently, just as it is in heaven. 00:17:19.529 --> 00:17:22.109 And so that we get to live in God's presence 00:17:22.109 --> 00:17:25.809 fully now on earth, just as we will one day in 00:17:25.809 --> 00:17:28.329 heaven. Like that again, to me, plays into the 00:17:28.329 --> 00:17:30.170 role of Sweetie's life, that she's living the 00:17:30.170 --> 00:17:33.490 fullness of Christ now in her earthly body as 00:17:33.490 --> 00:17:36.269 she will one day in heaven. So, so many things, 00:17:36.309 --> 00:17:39.549 I think, for me fall into that. Yeah, thank you. 00:17:39.849 --> 00:17:44.910 And to answer that question for myself and also 00:17:44.910 --> 00:17:47.329 connect with a couple of the things you said. 00:17:48.829 --> 00:17:53.849 My daughter is also nonverbal and has the most 00:17:53.849 --> 00:17:56.190 beautiful smile and the most beautiful laugh. 00:17:56.509 --> 00:18:00.269 And as I've met Sweetie and others, I have never 00:18:00.269 --> 00:18:04.329 doubted for a second whether Sweetie was loved 00:18:04.329 --> 00:18:11.789 by God fully. It is just so clear. But we often 00:18:11.789 --> 00:18:14.349 struggle with that for ourselves and others. 00:18:15.450 --> 00:18:19.230 Yeah. It can be a challenge for some of us that 00:18:19.230 --> 00:18:25.750 are, it's always tough to find words, but able 00:18:25.750 --> 00:18:34.089 -bodied or of normal mind. We can question decisions, 00:18:34.309 --> 00:18:37.829 different things. But we never question that 00:18:37.829 --> 00:18:41.549 for some of the more profoundly disabled. And 00:18:41.549 --> 00:18:43.630 I think one of the reasons that's significant 00:18:43.630 --> 00:18:48.250 is that doesn't come naturally. Throughout history, 00:18:48.609 --> 00:18:52.710 that hasn't been the case, that we look at people 00:18:52.710 --> 00:18:55.250 with more profound disabilities and say, wow, 00:18:55.289 --> 00:18:58.410 that person is really a sign of God's love and 00:18:58.410 --> 00:19:02.589 God's grace. And even those who don't recognize 00:19:02.589 --> 00:19:08.150 Jesus as God's son or scripture are still influenced 00:19:08.150 --> 00:19:13.690 in our culture by that belief. And everywhere 00:19:13.690 --> 00:19:16.900 I would go in the world, people wouldn't necessarily 00:19:16.900 --> 00:19:21.400 jump up and open a door for me or ask me if I 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:25.680 needed help. There are lots of places that that 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:29.660 might not be normal. For us, in our culture, 00:19:29.859 --> 00:19:33.819 it's pretty normal. But I very strongly believe 00:19:33.819 --> 00:19:37.019 that's because of the influence of, even when 00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:41.180 we don't realize it, of Christianity, meaning 00:19:41.180 --> 00:19:44.099 Jesus, and those teachings that you mentioned. 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:49.200 And I'll pause there. That's a tough one to pause 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:53.859 on. Liam, do you have anything to add about a 00:19:53.859 --> 00:19:59.079 certain place that you see in scriptures? I was 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:03.799 thinking about it last night. And I went, I think 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:06.539 it was Romans 8. And Paul was writing about, 00:20:06.619 --> 00:20:11.299 like, that we aren't from, like, this realm. 00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:18.759 It's our, like, spirits that matter. And he was 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:24.779 just saying that, like, it doesn't matter, like, 00:20:24.900 --> 00:20:28.440 what you're capable of doing with your body. 00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:32.240 And it's like you need to just lead with your 00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:38.440 spirit. Awesome. Thank you. I'm going to take 00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:43.079 us to the Old Testament. So I love Ecclesiastes. 00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:46.490 I'm one of those weirdos. And Ecclesiastes 7 00:20:46.490 --> 00:20:49.769 .13 says, who can make straight what God has 00:20:49.769 --> 00:20:53.069 made crooked? And I just love that verse for 00:20:53.069 --> 00:20:56.029 several reasons. But, you know, God explicitly 00:20:56.029 --> 00:20:58.829 says that he is the one who creates disability. 00:20:59.049 --> 00:21:01.029 He told Moses this. He said, who makes man deaf? 00:21:01.089 --> 00:21:04.430 Who makes man blind? Moses was complaining because 00:21:04.430 --> 00:21:06.009 he didn't want to do what God told him to because 00:21:06.009 --> 00:21:07.789 he had a communication disability and he didn't 00:21:07.789 --> 00:21:10.450 know how he would go about doing that. And so 00:21:10.450 --> 00:21:13.339 God is like, I made you this way. But because 00:21:13.339 --> 00:21:15.660 you're uncomfortable with this, I will send your 00:21:15.660 --> 00:21:18.339 brother Aaron as an accommodation for you. Right. 00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:21.400 And so like there's this beautiful history throughout 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:24.440 the Old Testament where God is like, I did this. 00:21:24.819 --> 00:21:27.339 And people are like, well, OK, then I guess I 00:21:27.339 --> 00:21:30.279 have to deal with it. And I think for me, like 00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:33.279 just recognizing the fact that like I'm not a 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:36.140 mistake, like God didn't have an error in the 00:21:36.140 --> 00:21:38.640 pattern that he was using when he made people 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:41.480 like that's just so powerful to me to think like. 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:44.859 God did this for a reason, and I am this way 00:21:44.859 --> 00:21:49.960 for a reason, and I live my life different than 00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:52.339 a lot of other people, but that's by design. 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:55.000 That does different things. It teaches different 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:57.160 things. It allows me to learn different things 00:21:57.160 --> 00:22:00.740 than it would if I just, like, you know, fit 00:22:00.740 --> 00:22:05.839 them old people. Thank you. I'm going to move 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:09.960 on to, have you ever felt othered by Christianity 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:14.180 or the church? Because of your body and abilities. 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:17.119 And I would just start with the really simple 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:21.839 one of seating. I've been in churches where there 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:26.099 wasn't anything available for persons that use 00:22:26.099 --> 00:22:30.559 a chair. And that can be tricky because it's 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.279 like, wow, nobody thought of this. You know, 00:22:33.299 --> 00:22:34.960 nobody thought of the possibility of someone 00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:47.190 in a chair coming in. This is where sometimes 00:22:47.190 --> 00:22:50.130 people overcompensate. So they start removing 00:22:50.130 --> 00:22:54.309 a whole row of chairs. And I'm like, I just need 00:22:54.309 --> 00:22:58.089 a spot. I don't need you to rearrange the sanctuary. 00:22:59.029 --> 00:23:03.589 So that's just a little example of sometimes 00:23:03.589 --> 00:23:06.230 in church, and not just in church, but included 00:23:06.230 --> 00:23:10.349 in there where people might wrestle or church 00:23:10.349 --> 00:23:14.109 structures might wrestle to how to figure out 00:23:14.109 --> 00:23:18.450 how to handle disability. Kathy, do you have 00:23:18.450 --> 00:23:20.230 anything to mention that? And then I'll go Liam 00:23:20.230 --> 00:23:24.069 and then Dave and Sweetie. Sure. So constantly, 00:23:24.289 --> 00:23:27.910 not as much in some spaces as in others, but 00:23:27.910 --> 00:23:29.869 it's little things, right? Like, so sometimes 00:23:29.869 --> 00:23:32.910 my pain doesn't want me to stand up, but I am 00:23:32.910 --> 00:23:34.890 young. And so people are like, why aren't you 00:23:34.890 --> 00:23:37.950 standing up? Right. And then also sometimes when 00:23:37.950 --> 00:23:39.690 you sit and you can't see the screen, so you 00:23:39.690 --> 00:23:42.069 can't sing along. You literally can't see through 00:23:42.069 --> 00:23:44.789 the tall people standing in front of you. But 00:23:44.789 --> 00:23:47.210 also just little things like sometimes the songs 00:23:47.210 --> 00:23:49.849 that are chosen have lyrics in them that are 00:23:49.849 --> 00:23:54.029 just really hurtful. And there's just so many 00:23:54.029 --> 00:23:56.390 places where there could be more thought put 00:23:56.390 --> 00:23:59.009 into how we're thinking about and talking about 00:23:59.009 --> 00:24:02.710 disability. I have had occasions where I've had 00:24:02.710 --> 00:24:04.970 to go talk to a pastor after service and be like, 00:24:05.069 --> 00:24:07.849 we need to talk about what you believe about 00:24:07.849 --> 00:24:12.309 me and let's learn some things because I am incredibly 00:24:12.309 --> 00:24:15.339 hurt right now. So it's definitely something 00:24:15.339 --> 00:24:20.019 that is a constant thing on my mind because I 00:24:20.019 --> 00:24:27.400 have had to battle it enough. I don't really 00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:31.759 think there's much. I'm not really, I don't really 00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:34.380 need many accommodations, so I haven't really 00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:38.289 noticed this issue much. I also think that it's 00:24:38.289 --> 00:24:40.750 cool that we're in a church that Pastor Greg 00:24:40.750 --> 00:24:43.029 really has the perspective of having a family 00:24:43.029 --> 00:24:45.630 member where that's something he's really conscious 00:24:45.630 --> 00:24:49.690 of. And when he notices a need or something, 00:24:49.789 --> 00:24:52.950 he'll ask myself or someone else with a disability, 00:24:53.250 --> 00:24:56.190 hey, how does this affect you? So I think it's 00:24:56.190 --> 00:24:58.069 really cool that you've gotten to be in a church 00:24:58.069 --> 00:25:01.529 where that environment or that situation is something 00:25:01.529 --> 00:25:07.720 that was thought of. Yeah, I think, you know, 00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:10.319 there's all kinds of things, right? I mean, like 00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.420 every individual is different. Every individual 00:25:12.420 --> 00:25:15.339 has different needs. You know, I mean, for us, 00:25:15.339 --> 00:25:17.319 like coming to church, you know, we can navigate 00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:21.220 space and all of that kind of stuff. But there's 00:25:21.220 --> 00:25:23.400 other needs of like, I mean, bathroom care is 00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:25.740 a big thing. You know, I mean, like it's really 00:25:25.740 --> 00:25:28.000 hard to change a sweetie in a restroom, just 00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:30.930 being honest. She's a big kid. She's not an infant. 00:25:31.009 --> 00:25:32.710 She doesn't fit on infant tables. You know what 00:25:32.710 --> 00:25:35.390 I'm saying? And so those kind of spaces, of course, 00:25:35.549 --> 00:25:37.430 I mean, that's everywhere, though. It's not just 00:25:37.430 --> 00:25:41.450 the church. But I think for me, just growing 00:25:41.450 --> 00:25:43.289 up in a church and spending time in a church, 00:25:43.390 --> 00:25:45.990 there's obviously some truth there because there's 00:25:45.990 --> 00:25:49.029 a lack of representation in the church. And the 00:25:49.029 --> 00:25:51.269 more that I have been involved with other parents 00:25:51.269 --> 00:25:53.809 of children with disabilities and having those 00:25:53.809 --> 00:25:56.470 conversations, like, they don't feel welcome 00:25:56.470 --> 00:25:59.200 in church. It's very hard for them to experience 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:04.059 church. There is a large population in our community 00:26:04.059 --> 00:26:06.900 of people with disabilities, and very few of 00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:08.859 them are represented in churches all across the 00:26:08.859 --> 00:26:11.099 Quad Cities. And so there's obviously something 00:26:11.099 --> 00:26:14.339 happening there that is not connecting, whether 00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:18.920 that's how we view our children's spaces or even 00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:21.460 our adult spaces or what that looks like. But 00:26:21.460 --> 00:26:24.460 when you can go to an event where people with 00:26:24.460 --> 00:26:27.170 disabilities gather, Like there's a local event 00:26:27.170 --> 00:26:29.150 called Night to Shine that happens once a year 00:26:29.150 --> 00:26:32.450 for people with disabilities. And you can have 00:26:32.450 --> 00:26:34.910 so much registration that you have to fill two 00:26:34.910 --> 00:26:37.670 spaces across two states to make that happen. 00:26:38.470 --> 00:26:40.609 But yet when you walk into churches across the 00:26:40.609 --> 00:26:42.190 Quad Cities, there's no representation of people 00:26:42.190 --> 00:26:44.930 with disabilities, or very few. That should be 00:26:44.930 --> 00:26:48.589 concerning for us as Christians all across, and 00:26:48.589 --> 00:26:50.150 not just in the Quad Cities, but I think across 00:26:50.150 --> 00:26:52.009 the United States and the world, it's probably 00:26:52.009 --> 00:26:55.269 very much true. So I think there's a lot of growth 00:26:55.269 --> 00:26:57.789 in things that can happen and conversations that 00:26:57.789 --> 00:27:02.130 can be had with those type of situations when 00:27:02.130 --> 00:27:03.829 it comes to church and people with disabilities. 00:27:04.750 --> 00:27:07.970 Thank you. And I want to take a moment to acknowledge 00:27:07.970 --> 00:27:11.450 this panel is doing an awesome job. Can we just 00:27:11.450 --> 00:27:13.069 go ahead and thank them right here in the middle? 00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:19.400 They're making asking questions a little tricky 00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:22.079 because they're they're covering them so well 00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:24.339 and doing such a good job that they're they're 00:27:24.339 --> 00:27:26.200 covering a lot of stuff, which I appreciate. 00:27:28.299 --> 00:27:32.019 What does it or would it mean to you for a church 00:27:32.019 --> 00:27:36.460 to be the safest place for you? I'll start with 00:27:36.460 --> 00:27:40.680 that and then Kathy will go to you and then Liam 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:47.490 and then Dave and sweetie. I think for me. People 00:27:47.490 --> 00:27:55.130 being aware of having things being thought of 00:27:55.130 --> 00:27:57.829 ahead of time. Or, hey, if we have someone with 00:27:57.829 --> 00:28:02.170 a chair, we can let them know. What's the bathroom 00:28:02.170 --> 00:28:07.190 situation? What is the chair situation? Would 00:28:07.190 --> 00:28:09.910 you like help with the drink? Just being aware 00:28:09.910 --> 00:28:12.390 of and thinking of those things for people that 00:28:12.390 --> 00:28:16.250 come in with disabilities. It's always tricky 00:28:16.250 --> 00:28:22.190 because it can be scary to ask someone a question, 00:28:22.269 --> 00:28:26.410 and you might get a response of, I don't need 00:28:26.410 --> 00:28:29.670 help with that. And you can feel behind it, I 00:28:29.670 --> 00:28:33.269 don't like that you asked me that. And sometimes 00:28:33.269 --> 00:28:36.390 I feel that. But at the end of the day, would 00:28:36.390 --> 00:28:40.410 I rather leave somewhere feeling someone wanted 00:28:40.410 --> 00:28:45.119 to help me even though I didn't need it, No one 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:47.700 was willing to have the courage to ask me if 00:28:47.700 --> 00:28:51.680 I needed help or willing to make a space for 00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:56.559 me. And so I think having the courage to make 00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:00.339 mistakes and understanding that even if you do 00:29:00.339 --> 00:29:04.279 have an awkward moment, that's okay. And it's 00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:09.000 going to take that sometimes for people to feel 00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:14.559 connected and have a space. I think for me, I've 00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:17.539 seen and experienced so much discrimination that 00:29:17.539 --> 00:29:22.119 I am constantly not able to be myself in spaces. 00:29:22.460 --> 00:29:26.660 That is 100 % the thing that makes spaces not 00:29:26.660 --> 00:29:30.099 safe for me is that I can't, I promise I'm not 00:29:30.099 --> 00:29:34.720 crying, the lights are getting me. I can't lean 00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:36.900 into who I am fully and trust that people are 00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:40.779 gonna be okay with that. When people don't know 00:29:40.779 --> 00:29:43.519 things about you, they say things. about you 00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:44.779 that they don't know that they're saying about 00:29:44.779 --> 00:29:47.519 you um and then you learn that you can't trust 00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:49.440 them so you just kind of come to a place where 00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:51.599 you're like this isn't a safe space for me i 00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:56.500 can't be who i am and i'm not great at peopling 00:29:56.500 --> 00:30:00.400 like just plain and simple like people are not 00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:04.400 my gift um so it doesn't make it easy to make 00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:06.759 those connections and to feel safe with people 00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:09.859 and so um it would be a huge shift for me to 00:30:09.859 --> 00:30:13.539 feel like I'm in a space where I could fully 00:30:13.539 --> 00:30:16.099 be myself and not need to be hiding aspects of 00:30:16.099 --> 00:30:21.859 myself. Wow, thank you. Do you have anything 00:30:21.859 --> 00:30:26.740 that you'd like to add to that, Dave? Yeah, I 00:30:26.740 --> 00:30:31.779 think just overall, you guys have said amazing 00:30:31.779 --> 00:30:36.779 things. If we take Sweetie into a space... I'm 00:30:36.779 --> 00:30:38.440 going to make sure that it's safe for her. I 00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:39.880 think for other people, you know what I mean, 00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:43.680 like coming into a space to feel safe, it comes 00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:46.119 to the community mindset, right? Like are we 00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:48.640 here to care for each other as a community or 00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:50.359 do we walk in the doors for our own experience? 00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:53.220 And so if we come into church in our own experience, 00:30:53.500 --> 00:30:55.259 which is the individual mindset, which a lot 00:30:55.259 --> 00:30:57.440 of us are stuck in in our culture, and that's 00:30:57.440 --> 00:30:59.099 just how it is. But if you come in for individual 00:30:59.099 --> 00:31:01.000 mindset, we're going to come in here, we're going 00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:03.079 to have our experience and what we thought of 00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:04.759 the service, what we thought of the music for 00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:07.140 that day, if we could find parking or not, if 00:31:07.140 --> 00:31:08.819 we could find a seat or not, and then we're going 00:31:08.819 --> 00:31:11.019 to walk out the door with our frustrations, our 00:31:11.019 --> 00:31:14.019 thoughts of what happened in that service. And 00:31:14.019 --> 00:31:17.440 so as we begin to shift to think about how do 00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:20.259 we want a community to experience church together, 00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:23.880 how we want others to come into the space and 00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:27.440 feel welcome and loved by each other as a body, 00:31:27.500 --> 00:31:31.700 as a family of Christ, that then begins for us 00:31:31.700 --> 00:31:34.420 to put ourselves aside and to make space welcome 00:31:34.420 --> 00:31:37.559 for all people. And that will begin to change 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:40.160 as we begin to view things that way, and I think 00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:42.079 it will begin to change as a community in the 00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:43.720 church and the body as a church as we begin to 00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:48.579 think that way. And I think that this is a great 00:31:48.579 --> 00:31:51.589 space. I see that already happening. The fact 00:31:51.589 --> 00:31:53.609 that we're having these discussions is the reason 00:31:53.609 --> 00:31:56.750 that Greg's heart and the church's heart is that 00:31:56.750 --> 00:31:58.970 we begin to become more of a community -minded 00:31:58.970 --> 00:32:01.650 space of what we think of others first and not 00:32:01.650 --> 00:32:04.230 just ourselves when we come to a church, and 00:32:04.230 --> 00:32:07.940 that's the way it should be. And so yeah I think 00:32:07.940 --> 00:32:09.940 there's always things right for others to come 00:32:09.940 --> 00:32:11.539 in and feel space and there's things that we 00:32:11.539 --> 00:32:14.480 have to think about whether that is facilities 00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:18.599 or layout or extra volunteers you know because 00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:21.359 sometimes people disabilities need help and support. 00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:23.660 And so if we're going to have children coming 00:32:23.660 --> 00:32:25.440 in with more disabilities it's going to take 00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.980 more volunteers to help out in spaces to help 00:32:28.980 --> 00:32:31.039 navigate that especially if their children and 00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:33.920 their parents have you know are able bodied. 00:32:34.299 --> 00:32:37.619 It allows them to have normal experience too 00:32:37.619 --> 00:32:40.180 and allows them to have a little bit of peace 00:32:40.180 --> 00:32:42.259 knowing that their child can be taken care of 00:32:42.259 --> 00:32:44.660 and they don't have to be the caretaker of their 00:32:44.660 --> 00:32:48.779 child at church also. And so, you know, there's 00:32:48.779 --> 00:32:50.700 all kinds of things I think that can be done 00:32:50.700 --> 00:32:54.619 and being mindful. And I see a beauty in this 00:32:54.619 --> 00:32:56.900 church already. I mean, I see mothers coming 00:32:56.900 --> 00:32:59.920 in with infants and I see other people who go 00:32:59.920 --> 00:33:02.400 over to them and take their infant from them 00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:05.039 so that they can have a little bit of space, 00:33:05.099 --> 00:33:07.279 you know, and a little bit of peace and be able 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:11.480 to participate and support. I think as those 00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:14.660 things kind of keep in mind, people feel more 00:33:14.660 --> 00:33:17.380 welcome involved. as we're thinking of others 00:33:17.380 --> 00:33:19.119 first instead of ourselves when we come into 00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:24.099 spaces. Thank you. And sometimes when my wife 00:33:24.099 --> 00:33:27.839 and I leave on our way home, and some of you 00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:30.519 may have noticed this as well, that for the size 00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:33.539 of our congregation, there's a lot of really 00:33:33.539 --> 00:33:39.019 young infants and young kids, people of different 00:33:39.019 --> 00:33:41.819 backgrounds represented, and people with disabilities 00:33:41.819 --> 00:33:44.720 represented. And I think that's really cool, 00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:49.440 and I think that says a lot about the community 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.400 that we have and the choices that our leadership 00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:56.440 has made. And sometimes I could be in a much 00:33:56.440 --> 00:33:59.339 larger group of people and be the only person 00:33:59.339 --> 00:34:01.880 represented as a person with a clear physical 00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:05.059 disability. But that's not the case here, and 00:34:05.059 --> 00:34:08.480 I love that. I'm going to ask another question. 00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:11.829 There's definitely some overlap here. So please 00:34:11.829 --> 00:34:13.949 don't hesitate if you don't have something additional 00:34:13.949 --> 00:34:18.590 to add. Just so I didn't say that. But the next 00:34:18.590 --> 00:34:22.230 one I have for you is, what does it mean to you 00:34:22.230 --> 00:34:24.869 to see people from diverse backgrounds, including 00:34:24.869 --> 00:34:28.449 those with disabilities, included and given space 00:34:28.449 --> 00:34:31.869 to be who God made them to be among Christians 00:34:31.869 --> 00:34:34.369 and Christian community? That one's a little 00:34:34.369 --> 00:34:36.989 longer, so I'm going to read it again. What does 00:34:36.989 --> 00:34:40.449 it mean to you? To see people from diverse backgrounds 00:34:40.449 --> 00:34:45.130 included and given space to be who God made them 00:34:45.130 --> 00:34:48.849 to be among Christians and Christian community. 00:34:50.449 --> 00:34:52.230 I'll start. Liam, do you have anything you'd 00:34:52.230 --> 00:34:55.489 like to add to that one? I don't really have 00:34:55.489 --> 00:34:58.090 any deep insight, but it does mean a lot to like 00:34:58.090 --> 00:35:01.710 me as a person. Yeah, that's all. Thank you. 00:35:03.900 --> 00:35:06.519 So I don't know many of you, but I teach it. 00:35:06.699 --> 00:35:09.199 So I have a lot of facts in my head right now. 00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:13.280 And one of them is the fact that like the CDC 00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:17.119 says 28 % of non institutionalized adults have 00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:20.900 a disability. Like that's a large number of people. 00:35:21.019 --> 00:35:24.619 So if congregations are trying to be representative 00:35:24.619 --> 00:35:27.460 of the communities that they're in, we should 00:35:27.460 --> 00:35:32.889 expect about a quarter of the people. whether 00:35:32.889 --> 00:35:36.190 or not you're able to see it so i think that 00:35:36.190 --> 00:35:38.289 like framing it that way helps us to think a 00:35:38.289 --> 00:35:39.989 little bit differently about who's in our space 00:35:39.989 --> 00:35:42.949 right like that's a lot of people i don't have 00:35:42.949 --> 00:35:44.909 a count for this room but it's a significant 00:35:44.909 --> 00:35:47.590 number of people right and so if we're thinking 00:35:47.590 --> 00:35:49.849 about that across multiple demographics like 00:35:49.849 --> 00:35:52.789 if we want to be the the community, we need to 00:35:52.789 --> 00:35:55.449 have people represented from those spaces, and 00:35:55.449 --> 00:35:58.030 then that helps us to feel seen and be present 00:35:58.030 --> 00:36:00.530 in spaces differently when we know we're not, 00:36:00.550 --> 00:36:06.869 like, potentially the only one, right? Yeah, 00:36:06.949 --> 00:36:09.909 I think for me, you know, I've said a lot already, 00:36:10.050 --> 00:36:11.789 you know, but I think even for me just as a parent 00:36:11.789 --> 00:36:14.610 with Sweetie, of some of the things that we went 00:36:14.610 --> 00:36:18.510 through, like, it was easy for me to cross some... 00:36:18.650 --> 00:36:21.190 boundaries but i had like fear right so like 00:36:21.190 --> 00:36:24.590 um and this may sound weird to some people but 00:36:24.590 --> 00:36:26.289 like even like the first time i remember like 00:36:26.289 --> 00:36:28.190 we we participated in communion with sweetie 00:36:28.190 --> 00:36:30.789 like walking her forward to give her communion 00:36:30.789 --> 00:36:34.050 where in some spaces in church culture like that 00:36:34.050 --> 00:36:36.550 they may not i don't know how people view that 00:36:36.550 --> 00:36:38.579 you know like i don't understand how people Like, 00:36:38.579 --> 00:36:39.699 my thought was, like, I don't know if I'm going 00:36:39.699 --> 00:36:41.679 to get, like, conversations with this ass word. 00:36:41.699 --> 00:36:43.820 Like, you know, like, saying, hey, well, is she 00:36:43.820 --> 00:36:45.679 really a Christian? Like, has she said a prayer 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:47.019 yet? You know, I've kind of mentioned those things. 00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:48.960 But I remember that first time of just giving 00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:50.920 her communion and saying, no, like, I'm all in 00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:52.480 with her being a part of the body of Christ. 00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:56.119 You know, baptizing her. We baptized her on Mother's 00:36:56.119 --> 00:36:59.699 Day two years ago here. You know, I mean, sweetie's 00:36:59.699 --> 00:37:02.000 probably never given a procession of, like, a 00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:05.260 personal, you know, profession of faith out loud. 00:37:06.789 --> 00:37:09.590 But we're walking in that steps of faith of believing 00:37:09.590 --> 00:37:12.909 that, hey, but God has like God's blessed her 00:37:12.909 --> 00:37:17.289 and who she is and being OK with that. So for 00:37:17.289 --> 00:37:18.869 me, like there was some things there where I 00:37:18.869 --> 00:37:20.809 definitely struggled with feeling comfortable 00:37:20.809 --> 00:37:24.309 with things in the church. and having to worry 00:37:24.309 --> 00:37:26.369 about some of those things. But it's also what's 00:37:26.369 --> 00:37:29.690 pushed me to dive in more to learning and to 00:37:29.690 --> 00:37:32.570 researching and to, like, you know, reading the 00:37:32.570 --> 00:37:34.429 Bible and having other discussions with people 00:37:34.429 --> 00:37:37.869 about faith and what that looks like with people 00:37:37.869 --> 00:37:41.949 with disabilities, especially where there's nonverbal, 00:37:41.949 --> 00:37:45.289 you know, involved where they can't kind of vocalize 00:37:45.289 --> 00:37:49.469 their thoughts. So yeah, and I think a lot of 00:37:49.469 --> 00:37:51.989 misconceptions come through appearance, but there's 00:37:51.989 --> 00:37:53.929 also, like you said, so much that's not seen. 00:37:54.769 --> 00:37:58.269 But I also think with the church, I'll reiterate 00:37:58.269 --> 00:38:00.409 again, we have to do better because there's a 00:38:00.409 --> 00:38:03.130 huge community that's not represented and not 00:38:03.130 --> 00:38:08.250 going to church. And that to me is where we could 00:38:08.250 --> 00:38:10.969 grow as a church, is how do we reach out more 00:38:10.969 --> 00:38:13.869 in our outreach to those areas and creating space 00:38:13.869 --> 00:38:19.289 where people feel welcomed. Thank you. There 00:38:19.289 --> 00:38:22.409 have been some great answers to this question 00:38:22.409 --> 00:38:25.570 already, but this is the last question that I'll 00:38:25.570 --> 00:38:27.469 ask, and you can choose if you have anything 00:38:27.469 --> 00:38:30.429 you'd like to add. What do you think are practical 00:38:30.429 --> 00:38:34.269 steps that individuals in our community can take 00:38:34.269 --> 00:38:36.909 to ensure that disabled persons and their families 00:38:36.909 --> 00:38:43.510 know they are valued, heard, and embraced? I 00:38:43.510 --> 00:38:50.670 think for me... uh a little disability thing 00:38:50.670 --> 00:38:55.429 is being willing to ask people if they need assistance 00:38:55.429 --> 00:38:59.210 with something if you can see some type of challenge 00:38:59.210 --> 00:39:01.809 they're having but being willing to accept their 00:39:01.809 --> 00:39:06.630 answer sometimes if i say that i'm trying to 00:39:06.630 --> 00:39:08.849 move it if someone sees me trying to move a chair 00:39:08.849 --> 00:39:11.849 and they say hey can i help you uh the answer 00:39:11.849 --> 00:39:15.369 might be yes the answer might be i have it And 00:39:15.369 --> 00:39:18.309 then sometimes it's so hard to watch people struggle 00:39:18.309 --> 00:39:21.170 to do something, but that doesn't mean that they 00:39:21.170 --> 00:39:24.449 don't want to do it themselves. If I'm grabbing 00:39:24.449 --> 00:39:27.150 a cup or something like that, and someone asks 00:39:27.150 --> 00:39:30.130 if I want help, again, it's so appreciated. But 00:39:30.130 --> 00:39:33.429 sometimes I might be perfectly fine struggling 00:39:33.429 --> 00:39:36.110 with something for 30 seconds that might take 00:39:36.110 --> 00:39:41.449 you two seconds to do. And I even noticed that 00:39:41.449 --> 00:39:44.809 when Liam dropped his phone, There's an offer 00:39:44.809 --> 00:39:47.630 to pick it up, but you chose to pick it up yourself. 00:39:48.030 --> 00:39:50.289 And I've noticed just in observing Liam from 00:39:50.289 --> 00:39:54.090 a distance, I'm going to go out on a limb and 00:39:54.090 --> 00:39:56.809 say that you and I have in common that we stubbornly 00:39:56.809 --> 00:39:59.550 would prefer to do things ourselves than accept 00:39:59.550 --> 00:40:03.369 help. Is that fair? Yeah. Yeah, I'll step out 00:40:03.369 --> 00:40:06.789 on a limb and say that. And so that determination 00:40:06.789 --> 00:40:12.269 is there. Being willing to ask and then being 00:40:12.269 --> 00:40:14.610 willing to accept the answer that's in response 00:40:14.610 --> 00:40:17.070 and recognize that even if someone struggles 00:40:17.070 --> 00:40:21.070 with something They might kind of enjoy the fight 00:40:21.070 --> 00:40:25.130 a little bit So that would be that would be my 00:40:25.130 --> 00:40:28.130 my answer Do you have anything you'd like to 00:40:28.130 --> 00:40:33.929 add Liam? I feel similar. Okay. Thank you Yeah, 00:40:33.949 --> 00:40:35.789 I mean I guess for me there's two big things 00:40:35.789 --> 00:40:38.829 one of the biggest struggles for many of us with 00:40:38.829 --> 00:40:43.820 disabilities in place is people's attitudes because 00:40:43.820 --> 00:40:45.880 people just don't understand disability well 00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:47.880 we haven't done a good job about talking about 00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:54.380 it and so these you know unknown biases against 00:40:54.380 --> 00:40:57.860 disability sometimes overwhelm people and make 00:40:57.860 --> 00:41:00.460 it really hard for us and I'll throw research 00:41:00.460 --> 00:41:03.639 at you again we know that the best way to become 00:41:03.639 --> 00:41:05.480 comfortable with people who are different from 00:41:05.480 --> 00:41:09.250 you is to spend time with them I know, revolutionary. 00:41:10.329 --> 00:41:13.289 But thinking about how am I spending time with 00:41:13.289 --> 00:41:15.250 people and am I getting to know people who are 00:41:15.250 --> 00:41:18.090 different than me to help you work through some 00:41:18.090 --> 00:41:20.429 of those things that you might not know that 00:41:20.429 --> 00:41:22.889 you don't know. But then the other big thing 00:41:22.889 --> 00:41:26.070 for me is just inviting. I might tell you no 00:41:26.070 --> 00:41:29.170 100 times, but if you keep inviting me, that's 00:41:29.170 --> 00:41:32.710 really meaningful. I have lost friends because 00:41:32.710 --> 00:41:37.750 I said no too many times. Sometimes I say yes, 00:41:37.869 --> 00:41:39.650 and then the day comes and I need to change my 00:41:39.650 --> 00:41:42.329 mind and say no right but that invite and being 00:41:42.329 --> 00:41:46.210 Intentionally included in things is really really 00:41:46.210 --> 00:41:48.670 important especially I think for people with 00:41:48.670 --> 00:41:51.590 disabilities because you might have Every intention 00:41:51.590 --> 00:41:53.929 of going and then your body or your mind might 00:41:53.929 --> 00:41:58.530 be like not today So having somebody who's still 00:41:58.530 --> 00:42:00.329 willing to invite you even if you don't show 00:42:00.329 --> 00:42:05.900 up regularly is really really meaningful Yeah, 00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:09.159 I think, you know, the same thing, too, is just, 00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:13.380 like, and I understand, like, I've had to learn 00:42:13.380 --> 00:42:16.820 how to change my thoughts and processes and my 00:42:16.820 --> 00:42:18.679 interaction when it comes to, especially people 00:42:18.679 --> 00:42:22.260 with disabilities. So it's a learning curve, 00:42:22.380 --> 00:42:24.460 but it's also the first step of just, like, reaching 00:42:24.460 --> 00:42:27.420 out. You know, I mean, like, I know a lot of 00:42:27.420 --> 00:42:29.239 people will approach her and may not know how 00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:31.460 to even interact with her because they don't 00:42:31.460 --> 00:42:33.559 know her disabilities just even by looking at 00:42:33.559 --> 00:42:36.639 her. And you can come up and be like, hey, sweetie. 00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:38.280 And she's just going to give you that look of 00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:45.199 like, na, na, na, na. And she's going to reach 00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:47.840 her slobber finger out towards you. And that's 00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:49.920 what she's going to do because that's how she 00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:52.900 shows she loves you. Because you can tell by 00:42:52.900 --> 00:42:54.860 looking at me and wherever we go, we have wet 00:42:54.860 --> 00:42:59.469 spots. I mean, so that's just life. But as you 00:42:59.469 --> 00:43:00.869 hang out and spend time with her, you realize 00:43:00.869 --> 00:43:03.070 the first thing is that she appreciates every 00:43:03.070 --> 00:43:06.030 single interaction. Like, she soaks it in like 00:43:06.030 --> 00:43:10.030 a sponge. And so I think for us, like, just going 00:43:10.030 --> 00:43:13.710 out of our comfort zones and interacting and 00:43:13.710 --> 00:43:16.849 talking and treating people like people, right? 00:43:16.949 --> 00:43:19.650 I mean, that's just the overall rule that we 00:43:19.650 --> 00:43:21.949 can always do better at no matter where we're 00:43:21.949 --> 00:43:25.530 coming from or who the person is. But, you know... 00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:27.179 It's just one of those funny things, like even 00:43:27.179 --> 00:43:29.119 with Cameron, I blew Cameron's mind this morning 00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:31.500 because he was like, well, why doesn't Sweetie 00:43:31.500 --> 00:43:33.320 come to Treehouse? And I'm like, because she's 00:43:33.320 --> 00:43:37.659 18. She's an adult. But you wouldn't know that 00:43:37.659 --> 00:43:40.440 maybe by first looking at her. And so there's 00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:43.619 a lot of things like that where it's just understanding 00:43:43.619 --> 00:43:46.400 as people that we have to treat people as people 00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:50.340 no matter what we want to label them or put them 00:43:50.340 --> 00:43:54.079 in categories. You know, and that's just loving 00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:55.940 them as they are, giving them the respect they 00:43:55.940 --> 00:43:58.159 deserve, talking to them, interacting with them, 00:43:58.219 --> 00:44:00.440 giving them the time of day because we all deserve 00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:03.179 that, you know, and just being aware of that. 00:44:03.300 --> 00:44:06.340 And it may be hard and difficult, but I think 00:44:06.340 --> 00:44:09.539 it's just taking the first steps just to break 00:44:09.539 --> 00:44:12.980 through those barriers yourself, not expect them 00:44:12.980 --> 00:44:15.119 to come to you and be like, hey, this is what 00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:17.579 you need to do. Like, break through the barriers. 00:44:17.659 --> 00:44:19.320 Like, be the person that takes the first step. 00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:25.059 Find spaces where it needs to happen, where you 00:44:25.059 --> 00:44:28.800 can. And that goes with all things. Man, put 00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:32.840 yourself in spaces other than what you live in. 00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:36.460 Get outside of your circles. That's really how 00:44:36.460 --> 00:44:38.719 change happens. That's really how we learn, right? 00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:41.460 Like if you never went to school, you'd be like, 00:44:41.500 --> 00:44:43.739 you probably know a lot less than what you know. 00:44:44.380 --> 00:44:46.159 Because you had to get up every morning and you 00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:48.420 had to go somewhere to learn well That's still 00:44:48.420 --> 00:44:50.639 the model we live in every single day like you 00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:52.599 we have to go out of our comfort zone And we 00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:55.139 have to go to spaces we have to be around people 00:44:55.139 --> 00:44:56.940 we have to interact and the more we interact 00:44:56.940 --> 00:45:00.179 We realize how human we all are and then we can 00:45:00.179 --> 00:45:02.820 begin to change and grow from those perspectives 00:45:02.820 --> 00:45:08.099 Thank you, you can each take a deep breath unless 00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:12.679 you have something you'd like to add we're Just 00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:16.800 a kiss from sweetie. Thank you, sweetie. You 00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:20.199 guys okay if that's our stopping point? Okay. 00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:26.719 A couple quick comments. Thank you all so much. 00:45:26.920 --> 00:45:30.739 Your answers have really resonated with me emotionally, 00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:36.679 and I know I feel listening to you heard and 00:45:36.679 --> 00:45:40.780 seen in really special ways. And so thank you 00:45:40.780 --> 00:45:44.860 for that. I'd also like to do something. I'd 00:45:44.860 --> 00:45:47.639 like to have Pastor Jen and Pastor Greg come 00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:51.880 up, and I'm going to say a prayer for them. And 00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:54.960 as they come up, I want us to think about the 00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:59.739 work that they do to, if you'll come up on this 00:45:59.739 --> 00:46:06.000 side of me, to have our community be the special 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:08.960 place it is. And when I think of these panels, 00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:11.400 I know they're different from what we're used 00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:16.349 to. But they're also discipleship. Isn't following 00:46:16.349 --> 00:46:19.429 Jesus learning more about how to be like Jesus 00:46:19.429 --> 00:46:23.969 and what he thinks and feels? And aren't we better 00:46:23.969 --> 00:46:27.869 able to be Christ followers as we hear and see 00:46:27.869 --> 00:46:31.750 these things? I think so. So I'd like to pray 00:46:31.750 --> 00:46:39.389 for Pastor Jan and Pastor Greg. I want to thank 00:46:39.389 --> 00:46:42.079 God. For the insight that he's given them and 00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:45.980 the heart that he's given them. And also that 00:46:45.980 --> 00:46:48.920 you would continue to lead them as they make 00:46:48.920 --> 00:46:52.280 these efforts to make our church a more welcome 00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:54.840 place. So I'm going to go ahead and pray for 00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:59.199 that right now. Father, I thank you so much for 00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:02.780 Pastor Jen and for Pastor Greg. And I thank you 00:47:02.780 --> 00:47:05.719 for the heart that you've given them to love 00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:11.059 people in unique and creative ways. and to go 00:47:11.059 --> 00:47:15.179 beyond the all are welcome that we see on so 00:47:15.179 --> 00:47:18.840 many church signs and that so many people think 00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:21.760 that they mean, but don't understand what that 00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:26.659 entails. Thank you for towards people of all 00:47:26.659 --> 00:47:28.679 the things we're talking about on these panels, 00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:32.300 especially today with disability, the heart that 00:47:32.300 --> 00:47:35.519 you've given them to ask questions and to read 00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:38.590 deeper into your scriptures. And I pray that 00:47:38.590 --> 00:47:41.469 you'd continue to guide them as they go on that 00:47:41.469 --> 00:47:45.570 journey to have increased insight and wisdom. 00:47:45.889 --> 00:47:50.670 And we ask this in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Can 00:47:50.670 --> 00:47:59.150 we thank everybody up here one more time? All 00:47:59.150 --> 00:48:04.130 right, panelists, you're dismissed.