We are in the second week of a series that we're
calling Imago Dei, and as our panelists, if you
will come on up and find your spots as they come
up and get settled in, we just have a primer
that every week we're going to read the same
thing at the beginning of this conversation to
set that conversation. The scriptures tell us
that from the beginning we are created in the
image of God. And so we bear the likeness of
our creator. I'll sit there if you don't mind.
And so we bear the likeness of our creator, every
single one of us. This is why for many years
now, our church website has said, we welcome
all persons and have no leadership limits based
on race, gender, identity, sexual orientation,
or physical ability for those who confess Jesus
Christ as Lord. Because the central standard
is Jesus. But because of how the Bible has been
interpreted over the centuries, the church has
often implicitly and explicitly communicated
that we do not all bear the image of God or belong
equally. Women have been left out or excluded
from leadership in the church. Historic gay,
lesbian, trans, and queer folk have been promised
they can belong so long as they fit in. People
with differently abled bodies have often been
excluded or treated less than because of their
physical bodies. Non -white cultures and ethnic
groups have often been treated like they're only
here to help the quote -unquote real image bearers.
It sounds ugly because it is. It doesn't sound
like Jesus because it isn't. And so our panel
discussions during the Imago Dei series are meant
to be a kind of promise. Not to perfection or
to utopia. And we aren't expecting full agreement
for everyone in the room about everything. But
these conversations are kind of promise that
we are working and learning to be a community
that is safe for people pushed to the margins.
People of color, women, the disabled, and the
LGBTQ plus person. Because we are all created
in the image of God and no one should be left
out. As we discuss what it means for us to bear
the image of God in the church and in the world,
for the church to be a safe place for us to grow
in the likeness of Jesus and the fullness of
what God has created us to be, will you please
welcome our panel for today? Would you each like
to introduce yourself? Tell them who you are,
why you're here. Hi, I'm Corey Holloway. I'm
originally from Jacksonville, Florida. Grew up
over in East Moline, living in Rock Island now.
Proud husband, grateful father of four. You can
see all my kids running around here today. I'm
here to have this conversation because this is
work that I'm passionate about. I want to see
change for all people of all makeups. So I'm
looking forward to having this conversation today.
Thank you. Hi, my name is Amaya Woods. the college.
I'm also an engineering major, hopefully electrical.
I might switch to mechanical, but I don't know
yet. Also, I'm here today because this is something
I probably never do, but I want to kind of break
out of my shell and show the people that they
can do it as well. And so this is like a really
big step for me, so I decided, why not do it?
My name is Marissa Cantu, and I was born and
raised here in Rock Island. And I went away for
a little bit to the Florida area, came back,
went away for school too. But this is where I've
called home. I've always been very passionate
about diversity, about the roles that it plays
in everything that we do, in society, in the
work, in places of worship, and at home too.
So every week we're going to have identical questions
that are only changed to reflect the group of
people that we're talking about. Our group today
has had the questions to consider, to think about.
They might not all answer all of the questions,
partially for time, but also because everyone
has different things that they care more about.
But I wanted to begin asking everybody, what
was your introduction to God and to church, or
how did you initially get connected to God and
church? Who would like to start? Yeah, go ahead.
My story is probably very similar to a lot of
folks. My mom took me to church when we lived
in Florida. As a kid, it was a place to go and
hang out and get to hear these stories, but the
most important things were the snacks, right?
So, whatever juice they were giving out that
day. So, that was my introduction to church.
I wouldn't say relationship. Yet, when I moved
here, I had an opportunity to get involved with...
a local faith -based organization, and there's
when I start to learn the foundations of what
it means to have a relationship through some
great mentors who are in the crowd out here.
It's starting to take those steps. We have a
faith of my own, is what I would say would be
my introduction to the church. I would say my
introduction through the church is... well, to
the church is through my family. My family is
very Christian -orientated, as well as their
families. And they have, I would say, a good
Christian friend group that surrounds them as
well, which helped play a big part because their
kids were around my age, and so we would church
together. And so I had, like, church buddies,
as well as we would also go to, like, little
camps. I don't know if you guys know, but there's
a place called Yuko that my dad used to work
at. And I would go there, and that's how I learned
more about Christ, as well as there were times
where I would go with my friends to their church
and experience what it was like. And so that
just helped play more of a role in seeing that
I was the only kid that went to church that was
other people. So that was something that helped
me get connected more to God and the church.
Marisa. My connection to God and church was my
dad was a pastor at a Spanish Mennonite church
growing up. I also went to what was called Christian
Feminist at the time when I was a young little
lad. And along with that, I had amazing mentors
in my life as well that made a huge impact on
how I viewed God. But yeah, my dad being a pastor
at a church. So in the context of having learned
about God and introduced to the context of church,
And all three of us have grown up in that context.
Have you found it easy or difficult to accept
who you are, how you were made, in comparison
to how the world has treated you? I wanted to
attribute a little piece to that culturally.
Growing up in a Spanish... The way that you're
viewed as a child there and then growing up into
your own community actually made it a little
more difficult for me to grow into my own and
in my own calling. Even though I did grow up
seeing examples of women in leadership, culturally
speaking, there's still that... the aspect of
women serving their children and serving their
husbands and serving community, not so much being
a voice. And so that was a challenge for me growing
up that I was able to overcome as my relationship
with God became stronger and his calling became
stronger in my life. I get a little teary -eyed
because... Even now, I still struggle with the
concept of elderly. So culturally, we hold our
elders to a high esteem as well. And it's funny,
I had a conversation with you a little while
ago about, oh, would I have to talk to a group
of older pastors? And so sometimes to me, as
a Latina woman, it gets a little overwhelming
to think that I need to have some sort of leadership
over elderly. And I don't know if that, does
that make sense? Yeah, because there's cultural
contexts for you that kind of change the way
that you interact with the world around you.
So even like five years older than me, it's like
such a sense of respect that I would never want
to. feel like a sense of authority as being disrespectful,
but obviously we find grace and understanding
in the way that we talk to one another in faith.
So how have you found it difficult or natural,
have you found it difficult or natural to accept
how you remained, and what do you think God thinks
of you? That's a really good question. I would
say... And so that's a little difficult. I'm
like, God, why would you place me in these certain
predicaments or these certain issues? Because
sometimes, I don't know if you guys know, but
I actually have really bad anger issues. So when
it comes to stuff like that, I kind of, yeah,
he knows. I kind of crash out a little bit. They
know, too. But yeah, it's kind of hard for me,
so it's difficult for me to accept that. Especially
with the age that I'm at, I feel like I'm not
fully comfortable with what I think I can handle
and what I cannot handle. But also, I feel like
I've accepted it, and I'm able to understand
that there's a reason for everything, and God
has a reason for everything. So I just need to
trust Him and pray, and that's about it. Yeah,
for me, I would say... Do I find it difficult
to accept myself? No. I'm very proud of who I
am, the man I've become, what has come in. My
lived experience has brought me to where I'm
at today. I wouldn't change a lot of the major
things. Obviously, there's minor things we would
like to change along the way. But from the sense
of God and how God views me and how God sees
me, no, that's a beautiful thing. And I'm glad
that I have that understanding of what would
be difficult. It's supposed to be his group of
people who's also supposed to see you. how he
sees you, and the hurt that has come from religious
organizations, and just being, when I see the
world doing stuff that's messed up and wrong,
it's like, oh yeah, that's what it's supposed
to be doing. But when you see it inside of the
church, right, that's where the difficulties
and struggles come, because it's, I think even
talking to Greg one time, I was like, hey, I
think one of my very first times you asked me
to come up and pray, I was like, hey, do you
need me to wear anything, certain things, so
I can be presentable and all that kind of stuff?
And he was like, no, why would you even? But
that comes from previous experience where you
can just come up here in a hoodie and stuff and
pray in front of the church, right? It comes
from, you know, how you, literally how you present
yourself, the things that you have to say, some
code switching stuff that needs to happen within
the church's walls. So those are the things that
I would find to be difficult rather than how
God sees me. Corey, will you take like 30 seconds
and explain what code switching is? So code switching
would be not being your authentic self in all
situations in areas. For example, we might have
different voices we may have. So how I would
speak with, you know, Chris or Joe is different
than I would speak with like a person that's
not of color that I don't know or meet, right?
So there's like the... Interview person look
probably like the interview version of yourself
that you have to present not to say that I'm
not So in those moments how I may say something
I might do something maybe different just in
front of the audience that I'm in front of To
be who I would think that they would want me
to be Depending on the situation that I'm in
whether it be in the work setting a church saying
Going into uh communities that i'm not typically
from like when i went up to my wife's area of
the country northwest indiana it's like you've
got to probably present yourself in a certain
way so you know things aren't assumed about you
right away right so how a dress could be a lot
different um what i would see just something
relaxing and natural somebody else could see
like oh here's all these just because you look
like that here's all these things about you so
yeah to prevent some of that let me change up
let me switch up that switch bar to code switch
so that I can be who they would want me to be
without there being some kind of friction or
some kind of assumptions upon me just before
they even get a chance to get to know me. Would
that be like Joe, your mom, saying use her white
voice? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I have one.
I'm not going to set up a hat because I don't
have a white voice for sure. I'm not going to
do it right now. There's actually an entire movie
about that entire concept with Danny Gilbert.
Anyway, so is there a place that you all have
found yourself in the scriptures that you find
yourself going to to remind yourself of what
God really thinks about you? Man, the scripture
that rings loud and clear is for I created you
in your mother's womb. You are beautifully and
wonderfully made. I reiterate that to my children.
I hope they reiterate that to their children
and continue to allow it to ring loud and clear
that we are beautifully and wonderfully made.
Yeah. I'd echo that. What's that? I would echo
that. Okay. I would say not necessarily. What
I like to do is... help resonate with me and
stick with me throughout the day with whatever
I'm going through, or if it's later in the day,
with whatever I was going through that day to
help me calm down and remember that God is with
me. I would recommend doing it. I like it. I
think it's fun. If you just have your Bible,
and you take it like this, and you flip it like
this, and you pray, and then you just graze your
thumbs over the pages, and then when you feel
like it's the right time, it's like, you should
stop. then you stop and open it. And you just,
you look directly at the page. You don't, like,
search around. You just look directly at the
page. And then that's basically how I find my
verse of the day that helps guide me through
my day. So how do you think that the biblical
concept that everybody has made, Imago Dei, and
the image of God, how should that shape our understanding
of inclusion and diversity inside of a church?
Yeah, I'm sorry about this one. I feel like oftentimes
God, I think God makes it very clear, and I think
in the context of a church, we've made it something
where it's not of God's word, and we've made
it of our own personal views of other people.
We've seen what the world has to, especially
in our country, of how we've taken scripture
and used it to abuse, to harm, to... kill off
other cultures of people, you can't sit up here
and say that was of God, right? So when we're
talking about the concepts of church, when we
hear something that's uncomfortable, it shouldn't
be something that we run away from. We should
go to the scripture and say, how can you help
me understand another person's lived experience
and see it from your lens and your love and not
of what... a potential political party may say,
somebody who you grew up with, say, of a certain
group of people may be. So when we're talking
about inclusion, who was excluded from God? No
one, right? But we can see today how often that
we make sure that we can see there's some churches
out there that say, well, that group is a group
of people that isn't welcome. We shouldn't take
care of those people. When it says we need to
take care of the least of these, then we see
in our world where we're going to take from the
least of these to give to those who have. Greater
than, you know, that's one example of how we're
not literally taking the words of what God has
written and gave us to use as a guide in our
life. do the complete opposite of that and then
find ways to try to use other scriptures to say
instead of saying we're wrong here's a scripture
that says that i'm right right and then we can
take scriptures and use it to say this is why
women have to serve in this way in the church
right um and use that as a manipulation tool
or when it comes to tithing and offering offering
and not understanding people's different situations
and needs or trying to sell Lots in heaven and
stuff like that. Right. So we're talking about
diversity is understanding that when people from
different walks of life will walk into your four
walls. How are you prepared as a church to meet
them where they have to know that your church
is a safe place and show that we're supposed
to be different. We shouldn't be able to. There
should be some kind of difference when you step
into a church. No matter what church it is, it's
different from what you are experiencing and
seeing in the world. If you're also seeing that
in a church, then you're not doing something
right and you're not living what the scriptures
are saying. So, yes, there's going to be some
scriptures that are, I want to say, like contradictory
or maybe have a different understanding than
what we may have today. But the heart of what
God is hoping to do is laid out pretty well in
the Bible. You said something I want to key in
on. If you look at this image, there's some hidden
things in this image. And I want to encourage
you, over the weeks, to be paying attention,
to be looking at it. One of the things that is
hidden in it is that all of the tiles spell the
word safe, safer, or safest. Because that's one
of the things that we're trying to move towards.
For people to know that this can be a place that's
not only safe, is becoming safer, and for some
people might be the safest. So who else? Anyone
have a thought of the biblical concept of Imago
Dei and how it should shape inclusion and diversity
inside of a church? So I don't really have a
really good answer for this, specifically because
I'm still learning more about the Bible every
day and how people interpret it and how I should
interpret it. So I have mentors to help guide
me. the bible a lot of times even now is still
very misused with scripture i had a friend last
year really good friend he's just a little different
um and we got into a few disagreements just because
he is an atheist and he used to be a christian
and he didn't really I bring this up because
he would like to pull out certain scriptures
from the Bible and kind of flip their saying
and be like, yeah, you say this and you say the
Lord is good, but here in the Bible is he really
good and flip what it was saying and interpret
it differently. Like, this is in the scripture
and say stuff like that. So I think, like, I'm
still learning for myself. I mean, I know he
was wrong because he didn't fully read the verse.
He was interpreting it wrong. Have you ever seen
the movie The Book of Eli? Jake Van Dam, someone
who goes here to the church, is doing an internship,
and he's getting a master's at Fuller Seminary.
But he was talking to me about an illustration
he has from The Book of Eli. I'm going to ruin
it for everybody, but the secret is that the
bad guys want to get the only copy of the Bible
that's left because they know that they can manipulate
people with it, that they could use it as a tool
to rule and to have power instead of something
that would be a blessing to people. You go through
the Old Testament, there are these moments where
the Israelites find the Word of God again, they
find the scrolls again, and their response is
not to rule it over each other, their response
is to repent. Their response is to weep at the
idea that they had found this again and look
what the Lord has for us. How beautiful is that?
Let us turn towards him instead of manipulating
each other. And so you're hearing a theme that
the Bible can easily be used as a hammer that
you hit people with instead of a balm that you
heal people with. Marissa, you had something?
Yeah. Scripture says, for God so loved the world.
The Bible is for the world. God is for the world.
It's not for white supremacist America only.
I say that with a lot of conviction because if
we really examine the word of God, there's a
lot of civil rights that take place. There's
a lot of... You know, Jesus walking amongst people
and saying, no, it's okay. I can be in this situation.
No, you don't have to cut his ear off. I can
handle myself. There's a lot of civil rights
that are going on. And if we are proclaiming
the love of God in our lives, then we are to
exemplify love. And to me, civil rights is exemplifying
love. The love for humanity should be within
us. And yeah, but I'm just going to leave it
at that. So this next question is a very vulnerable
question. And so if you don't all want to answer,
you obviously don't have to. But has there ever
been a time that you felt othered by Christianity
or by the church because of your race and ethnic
identity? And would you be willing? If not, would
you either be willing to share that or would
you be willing to share a time that you felt
included by the church? Yeah, so yes, I'm a black
man in America. What do you mean? Yeah, absolutely.
So for a specific example, when you're a part
of an organization, it's a faith -based organization,
and the head of that organization is comfortable
using... uh racial stereotypes as a key key moment
with you um when you uh go off and you learn
more about how do you take care of people and
like i went to school again all this business
knowledge leadership knowledge and things of
that nature and you um come back and you and
as you're studying as you're saying like oh my
gosh like this person is not has not been treating
me or other people that i know who are part of
this organization right right um and i won't
say names or nothing like that but Just to know
that this was supposed to be the place where
you should be able to be fulfilled, you should
be able to be encouraged in a way that would
bring fruit to your life and not destruction
is something that happened often. As far as other
churches, when I lived in Wisconsin for a little
bit, this was during the, I forget which shooting
it was. It could have been the Jacob Blake shooting.
But my wife and I were trying to find a church
home there. And it was as some of the Black Lives
Matter movement was starting to happen, speaking
on the positive things, as far as getting the
messages out and things of that nature. And we
just went and asked, hey, is this something that
the church is going to address? And one of the
people we were speaking to was a Hispanic man.
He was like, no, that's something that would
never get addressed at the pulpit. Like, you
will never hear a message about, like, you know,
the plight of black people and what they will
endure and things of that nature. I mean, like,
looking at you, you're a big, scary -looking
dude. So, of course, like, a police officer initially
is going to be scared of you, right? So, this
is at the church. I'm not outside on the streets
nowhere. This is supposed to be the safest place.
It was anything but that, you know? and made
some kind of comment about my son at the time
and how big he may be someday and how police
officers should be fearful of that. So that's
just two examples of different churches from
different areas of the country who have this
view or perception of, for me specifically, as
a black man in America and experiences that you
will have to endure. So that's . I'm going to
address matter of resources so I used to belong
to a congregation that was predominantly Mexican
immigrants we didn't we didn't have a lot of
resources financially like within the church
and so we had other churches that were like our
sister churches and my longest fight the whole
time of being othered was that we were the outreach.
But our goal is the same, was to reach lives
for the kingdom, right? To reach out to others
in love and to bring them to Christ. And so for
the longest time, within that structure, I felt
like our church was the outreach instead of standing
alongside of us. and helping us reach out to
those that we were reaching out to as well. And
so I want that to make sense to others when we're
providing a sense of funding or offerings or
things that we give. We give from our hearts,
or it should be coming from our hearts. It shouldn't
be coming from a sense of, I feel sorry for you,
I want to do this for you because I'm better
than you. I have more than you. So if we are
giving in that sense because we feel that we're
better than the other person or because we have
more than the other person and this is the only
reason, it needs to be reflected in that sense.
And so I say that across the board. And I know
I'm talking a little bit about resources and
money, but it did feel like a sense of other
in that sense. And if I can speak on the other
side of it. So in dark places, there can still
be light. And so we're going to go back to that
first question, how God sees me. I mean, I'm
looking out at three people that I do life with,
you know, who came from that same dark period
as far as, like, the environment that we're in.
And I do life with these people, right? So you
can always find light in God, even if you're
going through, you know, awful stuff, right?
I think about... my wife's best friend, who is
also a pastor, and he was willing to have a conversation
similar to this in front of his congregation
in Calz, Indiana. So it was a very small town,
and they had gone through this. another monstrosity
was put up on their water tower, and he wanted
to come and invite me in and some others in to
have a conversation of what just happened in
their town and how we can move and address that.
So when we talk about being included, there are
people who get it, and I feel like this church
is a church that gets it and wants to make positive
changes that impact, right? So conversations
like this is just another example of how we can
show inclusion within the church. I do want to
counteract to that. You know, to the part that,
yes, there is people that do have more than you
and do want to give more than you, too. And that's
a fact. And that's okay. It's about where it
comes from. Like, we're in the heart that it
comes from. And I have truly, honestly felt that
this congregation gets it as well. And I didn't
want to take away from my young voice here. No,
that's fine. I personally have not experienced
that in the church. Growing up as a kid, I've
been very young. And, you know, playing with
kids. You don't really stop to look around. If
people are judging you, really, or if adults
are talking about you, you're a kid. So I would
say no. So in your view, what are some of the
barriers that prevent churches from being fully
inclusive and even equitable of racial and ethnic
diversity? And how might we begin to remove the
barriers that you see? um yeah i'm gonna i'm
gonna say that um i asked this question one time
too and if we look around the room and we want
to see diversity it's nobody else's job but our
own it's our job say what do you mean it's it's
our congregation's job to invite the people that
you want to see in your congregation If you look
around the room and you're fine with where things
are, I have a problem with that. I have a problem
with that. I have a problem with if you look
around the room and your community is diverse
and you're not diverse, that's not okay. The
kingdom of God is going to be diverse. I know
everybody's theory is different on how we're
going to recognize each other or not. But I know
I'm going to be like, hey, it's my people up
there, and I'm going to be partying with my people.
And when you say your community, you mean the
city. Yes. Because our city is very diverse.
Yes. When you're in a city that is diverse, your
congregation should reflect that. And it is up
to every single one of us. Greg can rack his
brain along with the pastoral leadership and
the elderlies, and we can be like, how do we
make our church more diverse? Is it the music?
Is it the message? Is it how we wear things?
What is it? How we welcome people? Do we need
to put signs outside? Do they need to be colorful?
Do they need to be dressed in suits? Whatever,
you know. Whatever he could think of. But if
we're comfortable just looking around and seeing
what's here now, then it's not going to change.
Nothing's going to be different. Now there are
things internally as leaders, you know, obviously
that there are things that put in place, you
know, that we, that you could try to do. But
it is up to us as a congregation to want to see
the difference. I'm just going to briefly mention
that yesterday I was at an event and it was from
one city and they were all one color in this
group of dance. girls that are in a dance group,
all one color. And then another city was all
one color. And I was like, I noticed diversity
in every single scenario that I'm in, not just
church. I'm looking at it in my family. I'm looking
at it in the workplace. I'm looking at it out
in society because it's important to me. And
so then I started thinking like, How does that
happen? Like, how does that happen? Because I
know that one city isn't just all one color.
And I know this city isn't just all one color.
So how does that happen? And then my marketing
brain starts thinking they're just not reaching
out to the right families. They're not offering
this or they're not offering that. So when I
look at my congregation and I know that it's
up to me to invite the people that I want to
see here. What are some barriers that prevent
churches from being fully inclusive and equitable
of racial and ethnic diversity? And how might
we begin to remove those barriers? I would say
being afraid of change. I, for one, am a person
that's sometimes afraid of change. I, for example...
churches with people of color and then people
who aren't of color and that was kind of difficult
because the environments are both very different
and especially I would say being afraid of change
and the aspect of we need to learn that every
year or every day is a new step toward a better
future and so we need to be able to face that
change and take it headstrong and face it instead
of being scared and I would say one thing I am
a little afraid of change so a little like a
part of the problem that you're talking about
i would say um i am really nervous when i bring
my friends here just because like of where they
grew up or if they grew up in like a predominantly
black church because they're really different
and sometimes they don't understand because they
weren't raised in both churches or they didn't
have the opportunity to go to both churches that
they don't understand like the different environments
and they feel like out of place and so then i
feel scared to bring them to a place that they
would feel out of place because I wouldn't want
them to feel uncomfortable. So that's a little
something that has to do with, I would say, like
a barrier for diversity in the church is like
being afraid of change and like facing your fears.
I would say the biggest barrier is Western Christianity
to the church would be the biggest barrier. Say
that again. The biggest barrier to church is
Western Christianity. Right. So church should
be about you being able to improve your one on
one relationship with God. And that's not how
it is here in America as it stands today. Right.
Church here is a business and it's here to make
profit for most churches. Right. So if I. So
to truly paint a better picture of that, I should.
If you go to McDonald's here or in Hawaii, you're
going to get the same set of fries. If the church
was really living by God's word, you should.
Everybody might have had to go church hunting.
Like, what is that? Why should we be church hunting
if we are all about trying to do the same thing,
if we're all abiding by the same scriptures here
in Illinois, Florida, Texas? It should be the
same thing, but we know it's not. We know this
is still the most segregated hour in America.
It's right now where we're all praising and singing
songs and all that kind of stuff. There's still
the most segregated hour here in America. So
the barriers is that we've gotten away from it.
It's working how it was designed to work here
in America. So it's working. for those who it
needs to work for. So to make that change, we
have to get uncomfortable, right? Nobody wants
to get uncomfortable, right? But once you start
to do it, you can start taking steps. And it's
about having conversations. It's about putting
in practical steps and having difficult conversations
so that way you can be a church for no matter
who walks through your door. You should be able
to walk through any church and be accepted for
who you are. But we all sit in this room and
know that's not the case, right? So the biggest
barrier is that Our church, how it's set up now,
is not about an individual and being led to improve
your one -on -one relationship with God, what
he's calling you as men and women to do of the
people of God. So as long as that's not the case,
as long as that's not being the case, then yes,
the barrier is always going to be, well, I need
to protect the finances of our church. I need
to protect this X, Y, and Z of the church, right?
So that means I need to... give a not great scripture
because I want to support a political candidate,
then I'm going to do that, right? There's knowing
that if I know, just pointing at my wife, because
we had a conversation with a pastor when we were
out in northwest Indiana. He was like, hey, you
know, I'd rather be out there with the Black
Lives Matters and doing this all kind of stuff,
but I'm not going to do that because that's not
what my sheep needs, right? My sheep need to
hear a different message, right? So knowing,
like, you're the pastor of this church, you know
that, There's something in your spirit not telling
you that something around you isn't happening
correctly. But I'm not going to preach that message
because that's going to rattle my sheep or whatever
the case may be. So that's what's – I'm just
keeping it real, right? Western Christianity
is the biggest barrier to what the church has
– that way God has seen it and the way God has
called it is our biggest barrier. So as long
as that exists, racial inequities are going to
happen. the way women are treated in church is
going to continue to happen. The way we treat
our youth in the church is going to continue
to happen. As long as it's a business, business
is about profit and about the bottom line at
the end of the day, nothing's going to move or
shake that. So what are the practical steps that
individuals in church communities can take to
try to break that down, to make sure that it
actually is a safe place for what we're talking
about? I want to say that we need to practice
being transparent. I think that when things are
happening in our community, when things are not
going great in our city, when we see injustice,
I feel included and I feel heard when members
of my congregation say, hey, I heard about this.
Do you have any idea how I can help? Do you have
any idea what I need to be talking to my friends
about? And I've heard that in this congregation.
I have had friends in this community call me,
text me, ask me questions about what can I be
doing to help the community. I remember when
all of the stuff was going down with immigration.
I mean, it's a scary world that we're living
in right now. And I had friends in this congregation
say, If you know of a family that needs to be
housed. That's big. That's huge. You know, and
how about we practice letting go of traditions?
How about we practice relationships instead of
just being traditional, traditional church and
practice being in relationship with God and being
in relationship with one another. Yeah. Amaya,
do you have any ideas for practical steps that
a church can take to break down barriers and
make this safer? I would say one technique that
I really liked, we did it with youth help. It
was actually really scary, but the end goal was
nice. was to go around at a track and field meet
and go pass out cards to people our age and invite
them to church. At the time, I felt like I was
around 15, and so I was a freshman at the time,
and that was really scary. Freshman in high school,
you know, not a lot of people actually start
going to church. I mean, not a lot of people
continue going to church when they're in high
school, and I learned that throughout high school.
And so that was really scary. And a group of
us, there was like 20 of us and like millions
of people at that track meet. Like it was a lot
because it was our first, their first track meet.
So it was a lot of people. And even though there
was a lot of us in the group, we were still very
fearful of what people might think or what our
friends might think. Even though they knew that
we went to church, we weren't like openly like
talking to them about it or having conversations
about it. So the fact that like we had to go
pass out these cards and say, hey, you want to
come to church? next Sunday was really scary.
But actually a lot of people ended up showing
up and they ended up coming to church with us.
And so I think that's like a really good idea
to just, not even, you don't have to have a card,
just like to go up to someone and be like, hey,
would you like to come to our church? Like do
you go to a church or like conversate with them
every day? Like if you see like a worker at a
store, you can have a conversation with them
about it and just like say hi every day and then
like lead up into it and be like, hey, would
you like to come to my church this Sunday or
something like that, something small. Corey,
let me zero it in a little bit for you, okay?
Because I think you got this, right? So take
that question. Not big C church, little c church,
just us. Just us. Just us. I was going to go
in. Practically, because these are the people
that are the one -on -one getting to know Jesus
and then one -on -one getting to know each other.
So we want to know part of this panel is what
are we meant to be doing here in this room? And
it can have. ripple effect, and it can end up
going out and having an effect on other places,
but for us, what do you think? Where I was going
to go, I think it still can apply. Big church
or small church is accountable leadership, right?
Accountable leadership shows that you understand
the needs of your sheep and what God is calling
you to do and understanding, like, have those
difficult conversations, right? I mean, we're
literally spinning a church. days, service, you
know, having this kind of conversation, right?
So I think we're taking the right steps. Never
stop, never quit quitting, right? So let's continue
to try to reach out to different communities,
but meet people where they're at, right? So is
it that, you know, we invite other churches into
our home or are we going into their home, right?
Does it have to be just here, you know what I
mean? More discussions like this. I'm sure there's
gonna be a lot of questions that people have
so maybe a follow -up if there's you know one
of the Tuesday Activities if you want to continue
on Continue these conversations because oftentimes
people have a lot of questions and they don't
have a safe place to ask the question Hey, I
heard this about this group of people. Is that
actually true? I don't know where to go asset
because my only perception is what I see on TV
or the small interactions that I have You know
if the only time I've ever met black person is
when he was stealing something at the store then
everything about black people stealing must be
true right so and we know that's not the case
but what i'm saying is is continuing to have
these kind of conversations because it's not
going to be resolved here in these 45 minutes
right so continual conversations about these
things as things are happening and then going
back to scripture and saying like hey is this
true you know don't let immigrants in our country
right but we worship an immigrant so like let's
you know like what are we so what are we really
doing out here right so continue continuing the
conversation That's another practical step. Like
I said, accountable leadership is a practical
step. And let's see, usually it's a good three
takeaways when you do these kind of things. I'll
give you time to think about the last one for
your last comment. Any last thoughts from any
of you? And maybe Corey could come up with a
third where you can include in that. Any closing
thoughts from any of you? Yeah, just continue
to show love. Continue to show love to your neighbor,
the people that are not like you. Continue to
ask questions. Continue to ask how you can be
helpful in different situations, even if you
don't understand them. I think conversations
about worry and concern, even if you can't do
anything about it to change it, still show your
character. And it still shows God in you to say,
What can I do? Even when you feel helpless, when
you feel absolutely helpless, and you know that
there's nothing in the moment that you can do,
just saying, what can I do? And being aware shows
a lot of growth, and it shows a lot of compassion,
and it shows a lot of empathy to different situations
that are going on within the world. and within
our community. And I would challenge us to look
at a global God. I can't say that enough. I can't
say that enough that there's a whole thing that
we could do on Western Christianity and all of
those concepts. But if you are not... if you're
not uncomfortable, if you're not having those
uncomfortable situations, then you're not growing.
And so growth, it has a sense of uncomfort within
us that comes with it. And so growth in any area,
and right now, growth in diversity and understanding
should challenge a sense of uncomfort. Any closing
thoughts? to strive for change, find guidance
through prayer, and as well as be more involved
in the community. Like for volunteering, volunteer
for things. I personally don't like volunteering
because there's no money in it, guys. I'm a girl.
She's a little broke BFF right now. But I would
definitely say volunteering. Volunteering helps
a lot. That's the last thing, which is checking
with people. Checking with people. Oftentimes,
we all put on faces when we walk through the
door, and the whole story may not be there. And
it may not be in that moment they're ready to
address it, but just checking in with folks.
So that'd be my third takeaway. And then the
final takeaway is just I just really appreciate
this opportunity. Again, it's conversations that
we need to continue to have. Things change. People
have. different mental processes. Mentally need
to process things because it's a lot that we
just dropped up here today. I'm just happy to
be a part of a church that I see that gets it
and wants to strive to be what God has called
us to be. So, you've probably heard some things
you've never heard before. Some of you are going,
what's Western Christianity? Some of you are
wondering, oh, am I allowed to like... Black
Lives Matter, that phrase. Listen, when we hear
things that we've never heard before, that's
the moment that you lean in and learn more. There
is a resistance that our brain does when we don't
understand something to try and contextualize
it inside something we think we understand so
that we can easily discard it. But this is a
moment, every one of these weeks is going to
be a moment where each one of us is going to
hear something over the course of four weeks.
That, oh, I hadn't heard that before. Or what
is that? Go find out. Go find out. Because learning
is a part of growing. And God is always giving
us opportunities to learn how to love each other
better and how to reflect the image of God that
he has put in each one of us more fully and more
clearly. Will you pray with me? Heavenly Father,
we thank you for the diversity that is within
you, Father, Son. Holy Spirit, I pray that now
that we would know your presence in our hearts
and that you would shine on us the sense of your
image, that we would start to see it more clearly,
that we would then look at each other and see
it more clearly in each other. And over the course
of these four weeks, that we would come out clear
-eyed, even if we have new questions, even if
we have new things that we didn't understand,
that we would come out more clear -eyed towards
each other. because of who you have created us
to be. Amen? Will you thank our guests?