WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.319 We are in the second week of a series that we're 00:00:02.319 --> 00:00:05.360 calling Imago Dei, and as our panelists, if you 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:08.220 will come on up and find your spots as they come 00:00:08.220 --> 00:00:10.580 up and get settled in, we just have a primer 00:00:10.580 --> 00:00:13.220 that every week we're going to read the same 00:00:13.220 --> 00:00:16.000 thing at the beginning of this conversation to 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:21.600 set that conversation. The scriptures tell us 00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:24.480 that from the beginning we are created in the 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:28.940 image of God. And so we bear the likeness of 00:00:28.940 --> 00:00:30.739 our creator. I'll sit there if you don't mind. 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:33.920 And so we bear the likeness of our creator, every 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:37.200 single one of us. This is why for many years 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:40.600 now, our church website has said, we welcome 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:42.880 all persons and have no leadership limits based 00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:45.420 on race, gender, identity, sexual orientation, 00:00:45.579 --> 00:00:48.399 or physical ability for those who confess Jesus 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:50.799 Christ as Lord. Because the central standard 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:54.789 is Jesus. But because of how the Bible has been 00:00:54.789 --> 00:00:56.729 interpreted over the centuries, the church has 00:00:56.729 --> 00:00:59.409 often implicitly and explicitly communicated 00:00:59.409 --> 00:01:02.909 that we do not all bear the image of God or belong 00:01:02.909 --> 00:01:06.510 equally. Women have been left out or excluded 00:01:06.510 --> 00:01:09.329 from leadership in the church. Historic gay, 00:01:09.469 --> 00:01:12.010 lesbian, trans, and queer folk have been promised 00:01:12.010 --> 00:01:15.510 they can belong so long as they fit in. People 00:01:15.510 --> 00:01:18.170 with differently abled bodies have often been 00:01:18.170 --> 00:01:20.310 excluded or treated less than because of their 00:01:20.310 --> 00:01:23.719 physical bodies. Non -white cultures and ethnic 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:26.359 groups have often been treated like they're only 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:29.400 here to help the quote -unquote real image bearers. 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:33.760 It sounds ugly because it is. It doesn't sound 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:37.099 like Jesus because it isn't. And so our panel 00:01:37.099 --> 00:01:40.079 discussions during the Imago Dei series are meant 00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:44.859 to be a kind of promise. Not to perfection or 00:01:44.859 --> 00:01:48.900 to utopia. And we aren't expecting full agreement 00:01:48.900 --> 00:01:51.640 for everyone in the room about everything. But 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:55.640 these conversations are kind of promise that 00:01:55.640 --> 00:01:57.719 we are working and learning to be a community 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:00.959 that is safe for people pushed to the margins. 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:05.200 People of color, women, the disabled, and the 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:08.879 LGBTQ plus person. Because we are all created 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:12.960 in the image of God and no one should be left 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:16.020 out. As we discuss what it means for us to bear 00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:19.520 the image of God in the church and in the world, 00:02:19.620 --> 00:02:23.740 for the church to be a safe place for us to grow 00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:26.120 in the likeness of Jesus and the fullness of 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:28.759 what God has created us to be, will you please 00:02:28.759 --> 00:02:38.199 welcome our panel for today? Would you each like 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:41.120 to introduce yourself? Tell them who you are, 00:02:41.139 --> 00:02:46.860 why you're here. Hi, I'm Corey Holloway. I'm 00:02:46.860 --> 00:02:48.860 originally from Jacksonville, Florida. Grew up 00:02:48.860 --> 00:02:50.939 over in East Moline, living in Rock Island now. 00:02:52.139 --> 00:02:54.599 Proud husband, grateful father of four. You can 00:02:54.599 --> 00:02:57.419 see all my kids running around here today. I'm 00:02:57.419 --> 00:03:00.060 here to have this conversation because this is 00:03:00.060 --> 00:03:03.180 work that I'm passionate about. I want to see 00:03:03.180 --> 00:03:07.000 change for all people of all makeups. So I'm 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:08.439 looking forward to having this conversation today. 00:03:08.900 --> 00:03:14.810 Thank you. Hi, my name is Amaya Woods. the college. 00:03:15.069 --> 00:03:18.210 I'm also an engineering major, hopefully electrical. 00:03:18.490 --> 00:03:20.270 I might switch to mechanical, but I don't know 00:03:20.270 --> 00:03:24.710 yet. Also, I'm here today because this is something 00:03:24.710 --> 00:03:27.849 I probably never do, but I want to kind of break 00:03:27.849 --> 00:03:31.310 out of my shell and show the people that they 00:03:31.310 --> 00:03:33.650 can do it as well. And so this is like a really 00:03:33.650 --> 00:03:36.750 big step for me, so I decided, why not do it? 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:45.800 My name is Marissa Cantu, and I was born and 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:50.659 raised here in Rock Island. And I went away for 00:03:50.659 --> 00:03:53.240 a little bit to the Florida area, came back, 00:03:53.419 --> 00:03:56.620 went away for school too. But this is where I've 00:03:56.620 --> 00:03:59.080 called home. I've always been very passionate 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:05.400 about diversity, about the roles that it plays 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:08.879 in everything that we do, in society, in the 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:12.120 work, in places of worship, and at home too. 00:04:14.330 --> 00:04:16.910 So every week we're going to have identical questions 00:04:16.910 --> 00:04:19.370 that are only changed to reflect the group of 00:04:19.370 --> 00:04:21.829 people that we're talking about. Our group today 00:04:21.829 --> 00:04:23.910 has had the questions to consider, to think about. 00:04:24.050 --> 00:04:26.370 They might not all answer all of the questions, 00:04:26.430 --> 00:04:29.269 partially for time, but also because everyone 00:04:29.269 --> 00:04:31.769 has different things that they care more about. 00:04:31.889 --> 00:04:33.889 But I wanted to begin asking everybody, what 00:04:33.889 --> 00:04:37.050 was your introduction to God and to church, or 00:04:37.050 --> 00:04:39.490 how did you initially get connected to God and 00:04:39.490 --> 00:04:44.730 church? Who would like to start? Yeah, go ahead. 00:04:45.329 --> 00:04:47.930 My story is probably very similar to a lot of 00:04:47.930 --> 00:04:50.250 folks. My mom took me to church when we lived 00:04:50.250 --> 00:04:53.269 in Florida. As a kid, it was a place to go and 00:04:53.269 --> 00:04:55.470 hang out and get to hear these stories, but the 00:04:55.470 --> 00:04:57.149 most important things were the snacks, right? 00:04:57.290 --> 00:04:59.050 So, whatever juice they were giving out that 00:04:59.050 --> 00:05:03.730 day. So, that was my introduction to church. 00:05:03.910 --> 00:05:08.490 I wouldn't say relationship. Yet, when I moved 00:05:08.490 --> 00:05:12.470 here, I had an opportunity to get involved with... 00:05:12.670 --> 00:05:16.110 a local faith -based organization, and there's 00:05:16.110 --> 00:05:19.050 when I start to learn the foundations of what 00:05:19.050 --> 00:05:21.149 it means to have a relationship through some 00:05:21.149 --> 00:05:24.829 great mentors who are in the crowd out here. 00:05:26.629 --> 00:05:29.149 It's starting to take those steps. We have a 00:05:29.149 --> 00:05:32.069 faith of my own, is what I would say would be 00:05:32.069 --> 00:05:38.329 my introduction to the church. I would say my 00:05:38.329 --> 00:05:41.680 introduction through the church is... well, to 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:44.800 the church is through my family. My family is 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:47.939 very Christian -orientated, as well as their 00:05:47.939 --> 00:05:50.980 families. And they have, I would say, a good 00:05:50.980 --> 00:05:55.300 Christian friend group that surrounds them as 00:05:55.300 --> 00:05:57.240 well, which helped play a big part because their 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:59.500 kids were around my age, and so we would church 00:05:59.500 --> 00:06:01.899 together. And so I had, like, church buddies, 00:06:02.019 --> 00:06:05.740 as well as we would also go to, like, little 00:06:05.740 --> 00:06:08.379 camps. I don't know if you guys know, but there's 00:06:08.379 --> 00:06:10.180 a place called Yuko that my dad used to work 00:06:10.180 --> 00:06:12.399 at. And I would go there, and that's how I learned 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:15.939 more about Christ, as well as there were times 00:06:15.939 --> 00:06:17.720 where I would go with my friends to their church 00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:19.339 and experience what it was like. And so that 00:06:19.339 --> 00:06:21.720 just helped play more of a role in seeing that 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:23.439 I was the only kid that went to church that was 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:26.720 other people. So that was something that helped 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:28.660 me get connected more to God and the church. 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:35.279 Marisa. My connection to God and church was my 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:37.959 dad was a pastor at a Spanish Mennonite church 00:06:37.959 --> 00:06:46.980 growing up. I also went to what was called Christian 00:06:46.980 --> 00:06:49.920 Feminist at the time when I was a young little 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:54.839 lad. And along with that, I had amazing mentors 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:59.000 in my life as well that made a huge impact on 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:03.699 how I viewed God. But yeah, my dad being a pastor 00:07:03.699 --> 00:07:08.980 at a church. So in the context of having learned 00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:11.480 about God and introduced to the context of church, 00:07:12.110 --> 00:07:17.149 And all three of us have grown up in that context. 00:07:17.850 --> 00:07:22.329 Have you found it easy or difficult to accept 00:07:22.329 --> 00:07:26.029 who you are, how you were made, in comparison 00:07:26.029 --> 00:07:32.389 to how the world has treated you? I wanted to 00:07:32.389 --> 00:07:36.089 attribute a little piece to that culturally. 00:07:37.209 --> 00:07:46.990 Growing up in a Spanish... The way that you're 00:07:46.990 --> 00:07:49.990 viewed as a child there and then growing up into 00:07:49.990 --> 00:07:54.509 your own community actually made it a little 00:07:54.509 --> 00:07:59.670 more difficult for me to grow into my own and 00:07:59.670 --> 00:08:02.470 in my own calling. Even though I did grow up 00:08:02.470 --> 00:08:07.410 seeing examples of women in leadership, culturally 00:08:07.410 --> 00:08:12.920 speaking, there's still that... the aspect of 00:08:12.920 --> 00:08:16.319 women serving their children and serving their 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:22.240 husbands and serving community, not so much being 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:26.060 a voice. And so that was a challenge for me growing 00:08:26.060 --> 00:08:30.740 up that I was able to overcome as my relationship 00:08:30.740 --> 00:08:34.000 with God became stronger and his calling became 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:38.580 stronger in my life. I get a little teary -eyed 00:08:38.580 --> 00:08:42.870 because... Even now, I still struggle with the 00:08:42.870 --> 00:08:48.269 concept of elderly. So culturally, we hold our 00:08:48.269 --> 00:08:52.509 elders to a high esteem as well. And it's funny, 00:08:52.570 --> 00:08:56.190 I had a conversation with you a little while 00:08:56.190 --> 00:09:00.970 ago about, oh, would I have to talk to a group 00:09:00.970 --> 00:09:06.769 of older pastors? And so sometimes to me, as 00:09:06.769 --> 00:09:11.330 a Latina woman, it gets a little overwhelming 00:09:11.330 --> 00:09:18.570 to think that I need to have some sort of leadership 00:09:18.570 --> 00:09:23.610 over elderly. And I don't know if that, does 00:09:23.610 --> 00:09:25.870 that make sense? Yeah, because there's cultural 00:09:25.870 --> 00:09:28.590 contexts for you that kind of change the way 00:09:28.590 --> 00:09:30.549 that you interact with the world around you. 00:09:30.590 --> 00:09:32.830 So even like five years older than me, it's like 00:09:32.830 --> 00:09:35.350 such a sense of respect that I would never want 00:09:35.350 --> 00:09:39.970 to. feel like a sense of authority as being disrespectful, 00:09:40.230 --> 00:09:43.409 but obviously we find grace and understanding 00:09:43.409 --> 00:09:46.490 in the way that we talk to one another in faith. 00:09:46.929 --> 00:09:49.250 So how have you found it difficult or natural, 00:09:49.409 --> 00:09:52.850 have you found it difficult or natural to accept 00:09:52.850 --> 00:09:56.070 how you remained, and what do you think God thinks 00:09:56.070 --> 00:10:02.610 of you? That's a really good question. I would 00:10:02.610 --> 00:10:19.610 say... And so that's a little difficult. I'm 00:10:19.610 --> 00:10:22.970 like, God, why would you place me in these certain 00:10:22.970 --> 00:10:27.590 predicaments or these certain issues? Because 00:10:27.590 --> 00:10:29.250 sometimes, I don't know if you guys know, but 00:10:29.250 --> 00:10:32.429 I actually have really bad anger issues. So when 00:10:32.429 --> 00:10:35.649 it comes to stuff like that, I kind of, yeah, 00:10:35.669 --> 00:10:40.590 he knows. I kind of crash out a little bit. They 00:10:40.590 --> 00:10:43.909 know, too. But yeah, it's kind of hard for me, 00:10:43.909 --> 00:10:46.159 so it's difficult for me to accept that. Especially 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:51.480 with the age that I'm at, I feel like I'm not 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:57.500 fully comfortable with what I think I can handle 00:10:57.500 --> 00:10:59.980 and what I cannot handle. But also, I feel like 00:10:59.980 --> 00:11:03.700 I've accepted it, and I'm able to understand 00:11:03.700 --> 00:11:05.659 that there's a reason for everything, and God 00:11:05.659 --> 00:11:07.700 has a reason for everything. So I just need to 00:11:07.700 --> 00:11:12.659 trust Him and pray, and that's about it. Yeah, 00:11:12.700 --> 00:11:16.679 for me, I would say... Do I find it difficult 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:19.019 to accept myself? No. I'm very proud of who I 00:11:19.019 --> 00:11:24.460 am, the man I've become, what has come in. My 00:11:24.460 --> 00:11:26.379 lived experience has brought me to where I'm 00:11:26.379 --> 00:11:28.980 at today. I wouldn't change a lot of the major 00:11:28.980 --> 00:11:30.500 things. Obviously, there's minor things we would 00:11:30.500 --> 00:11:32.399 like to change along the way. But from the sense 00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:35.179 of God and how God views me and how God sees 00:11:35.179 --> 00:11:37.539 me, no, that's a beautiful thing. And I'm glad 00:11:37.539 --> 00:11:39.879 that I have that understanding of what would 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:42.279 be difficult. It's supposed to be his group of 00:11:42.279 --> 00:11:44.950 people who's also supposed to see you. how he 00:11:44.950 --> 00:11:48.750 sees you, and the hurt that has come from religious 00:11:48.750 --> 00:11:51.629 organizations, and just being, when I see the 00:11:51.629 --> 00:11:53.529 world doing stuff that's messed up and wrong, 00:11:53.590 --> 00:11:54.929 it's like, oh yeah, that's what it's supposed 00:11:54.929 --> 00:11:57.490 to be doing. But when you see it inside of the 00:11:57.490 --> 00:12:00.309 church, right, that's where the difficulties 00:12:00.309 --> 00:12:03.450 and struggles come, because it's, I think even 00:12:03.450 --> 00:12:06.149 talking to Greg one time, I was like, hey, I 00:12:06.149 --> 00:12:07.970 think one of my very first times you asked me 00:12:07.970 --> 00:12:09.210 to come up and pray, I was like, hey, do you 00:12:09.210 --> 00:12:11.389 need me to wear anything, certain things, so 00:12:11.389 --> 00:12:13.330 I can be presentable and all that kind of stuff? 00:12:13.789 --> 00:12:16.210 And he was like, no, why would you even? But 00:12:16.210 --> 00:12:18.690 that comes from previous experience where you 00:12:18.690 --> 00:12:20.450 can just come up here in a hoodie and stuff and 00:12:20.450 --> 00:12:23.269 pray in front of the church, right? It comes 00:12:23.269 --> 00:12:27.669 from, you know, how you, literally how you present 00:12:27.669 --> 00:12:29.350 yourself, the things that you have to say, some 00:12:29.350 --> 00:12:31.009 code switching stuff that needs to happen within 00:12:31.009 --> 00:12:34.529 the church's walls. So those are the things that 00:12:34.529 --> 00:12:37.149 I would find to be difficult rather than how 00:12:37.149 --> 00:12:40.549 God sees me. Corey, will you take like 30 seconds 00:12:40.549 --> 00:12:45.980 and explain what code switching is? So code switching 00:12:45.980 --> 00:12:50.080 would be not being your authentic self in all 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:55.139 situations in areas. For example, we might have 00:12:55.139 --> 00:12:57.600 different voices we may have. So how I would 00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:00.659 speak with, you know, Chris or Joe is different 00:13:00.659 --> 00:13:04.799 than I would speak with like a person that's 00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:07.279 not of color that I don't know or meet, right? 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:11.240 So there's like the... Interview person look 00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:13.419 probably like the interview version of yourself 00:13:13.419 --> 00:13:16.919 that you have to present not to say that I'm 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.259 not So in those moments how I may say something 00:13:20.259 --> 00:13:23.120 I might do something maybe different just in 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:25.679 front of the audience that I'm in front of To 00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:27.340 be who I would think that they would want me 00:13:27.340 --> 00:13:32.519 to be Depending on the situation that I'm in 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:35.360 whether it be in the work setting a church saying 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:42.340 Going into uh communities that i'm not typically 00:13:42.340 --> 00:13:45.659 from like when i went up to my wife's area of 00:13:45.659 --> 00:13:47.860 the country northwest indiana it's like you've 00:13:47.860 --> 00:13:49.960 got to probably present yourself in a certain 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:52.460 way so you know things aren't assumed about you 00:13:52.460 --> 00:13:55.419 right away right so how a dress could be a lot 00:13:55.419 --> 00:13:58.000 different um what i would see just something 00:13:58.000 --> 00:13:59.879 relaxing and natural somebody else could see 00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:02.360 like oh here's all these just because you look 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:04.720 like that here's all these things about you so 00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:07.080 yeah to prevent some of that let me change up 00:14:07.549 --> 00:14:10.009 let me switch up that switch bar to code switch 00:14:10.009 --> 00:14:13.210 so that I can be who they would want me to be 00:14:13.210 --> 00:14:16.009 without there being some kind of friction or 00:14:16.009 --> 00:14:19.009 some kind of assumptions upon me just before 00:14:19.009 --> 00:14:20.370 they even get a chance to get to know me. Would 00:14:20.370 --> 00:14:23.490 that be like Joe, your mom, saying use her white 00:14:23.490 --> 00:14:26.570 voice? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I have one. 00:14:26.629 --> 00:14:27.730 I'm not going to set up a hat because I don't 00:14:27.730 --> 00:14:30.490 have a white voice for sure. I'm not going to 00:14:30.490 --> 00:14:34.570 do it right now. There's actually an entire movie 00:14:34.570 --> 00:14:37.429 about that entire concept with Danny Gilbert. 00:14:37.929 --> 00:14:40.970 Anyway, so is there a place that you all have 00:14:40.970 --> 00:14:44.450 found yourself in the scriptures that you find 00:14:44.450 --> 00:14:46.549 yourself going to to remind yourself of what 00:14:46.549 --> 00:14:51.809 God really thinks about you? Man, the scripture 00:14:51.809 --> 00:14:57.250 that rings loud and clear is for I created you 00:14:57.250 --> 00:14:58.970 in your mother's womb. You are beautifully and 00:14:58.970 --> 00:15:03.950 wonderfully made. I reiterate that to my children. 00:15:04.169 --> 00:15:06.210 I hope they reiterate that to their children 00:15:06.210 --> 00:15:09.929 and continue to allow it to ring loud and clear 00:15:09.929 --> 00:15:14.110 that we are beautifully and wonderfully made. 00:15:15.490 --> 00:15:19.429 Yeah. I'd echo that. What's that? I would echo 00:15:19.429 --> 00:15:24.909 that. Okay. I would say not necessarily. What 00:15:24.909 --> 00:15:35.110 I like to do is... help resonate with me and 00:15:35.110 --> 00:15:36.889 stick with me throughout the day with whatever 00:15:36.889 --> 00:15:39.129 I'm going through, or if it's later in the day, 00:15:39.149 --> 00:15:41.950 with whatever I was going through that day to 00:15:41.950 --> 00:15:45.070 help me calm down and remember that God is with 00:15:45.070 --> 00:15:48.850 me. I would recommend doing it. I like it. I 00:15:48.850 --> 00:15:50.789 think it's fun. If you just have your Bible, 00:15:50.929 --> 00:15:55.769 and you take it like this, and you flip it like 00:15:55.769 --> 00:15:58.990 this, and you pray, and then you just graze your 00:15:58.990 --> 00:16:01.549 thumbs over the pages, and then when you feel 00:16:01.549 --> 00:16:03.590 like it's the right time, it's like, you should 00:16:03.590 --> 00:16:06.240 stop. then you stop and open it. And you just, 00:16:06.259 --> 00:16:08.399 you look directly at the page. You don't, like, 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:09.740 search around. You just look directly at the 00:16:09.740 --> 00:16:12.340 page. And then that's basically how I find my 00:16:12.340 --> 00:16:15.519 verse of the day that helps guide me through 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.720 my day. So how do you think that the biblical 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.259 concept that everybody has made, Imago Dei, and 00:16:21.259 --> 00:16:25.299 the image of God, how should that shape our understanding 00:16:25.299 --> 00:16:28.240 of inclusion and diversity inside of a church? 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:34.200 Yeah, I'm sorry about this one. I feel like oftentimes 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:36.820 God, I think God makes it very clear, and I think 00:16:36.820 --> 00:16:40.360 in the context of a church, we've made it something 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:42.700 where it's not of God's word, and we've made 00:16:42.700 --> 00:16:47.639 it of our own personal views of other people. 00:16:48.139 --> 00:16:51.100 We've seen what the world has to, especially 00:16:51.100 --> 00:16:53.220 in our country, of how we've taken scripture 00:16:53.220 --> 00:16:57.389 and used it to abuse, to harm, to... kill off 00:16:57.389 --> 00:17:00.409 other cultures of people, you can't sit up here 00:17:00.409 --> 00:17:02.929 and say that was of God, right? So when we're 00:17:02.929 --> 00:17:04.690 talking about the concepts of church, when we 00:17:04.690 --> 00:17:06.309 hear something that's uncomfortable, it shouldn't 00:17:06.309 --> 00:17:07.930 be something that we run away from. We should 00:17:07.930 --> 00:17:10.009 go to the scripture and say, how can you help 00:17:10.009 --> 00:17:12.309 me understand another person's lived experience 00:17:12.309 --> 00:17:15.630 and see it from your lens and your love and not 00:17:15.630 --> 00:17:18.519 of what... a potential political party may say, 00:17:18.619 --> 00:17:21.579 somebody who you grew up with, say, of a certain 00:17:21.579 --> 00:17:23.839 group of people may be. So when we're talking 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:26.420 about inclusion, who was excluded from God? No 00:17:26.420 --> 00:17:28.779 one, right? But we can see today how often that 00:17:28.779 --> 00:17:31.180 we make sure that we can see there's some churches 00:17:31.180 --> 00:17:33.019 out there that say, well, that group is a group 00:17:33.019 --> 00:17:35.059 of people that isn't welcome. We shouldn't take 00:17:35.059 --> 00:17:37.079 care of those people. When it says we need to 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:38.700 take care of the least of these, then we see 00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:40.799 in our world where we're going to take from the 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:43.619 least of these to give to those who have. Greater 00:17:43.619 --> 00:17:46.940 than, you know, that's one example of how we're 00:17:46.940 --> 00:17:49.859 not literally taking the words of what God has 00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:52.119 written and gave us to use as a guide in our 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:55.630 life. do the complete opposite of that and then 00:17:55.630 --> 00:17:58.730 find ways to try to use other scriptures to say 00:17:58.730 --> 00:18:00.710 instead of saying we're wrong here's a scripture 00:18:00.710 --> 00:18:02.670 that says that i'm right right and then we can 00:18:02.670 --> 00:18:05.329 take scriptures and use it to say this is why 00:18:05.329 --> 00:18:07.349 women have to serve in this way in the church 00:18:07.349 --> 00:18:10.250 right um and use that as a manipulation tool 00:18:10.250 --> 00:18:12.750 or when it comes to tithing and offering offering 00:18:12.750 --> 00:18:15.630 and not understanding people's different situations 00:18:15.630 --> 00:18:19.089 and needs or trying to sell Lots in heaven and 00:18:19.089 --> 00:18:21.410 stuff like that. Right. So we're talking about 00:18:21.410 --> 00:18:24.150 diversity is understanding that when people from 00:18:24.150 --> 00:18:26.369 different walks of life will walk into your four 00:18:26.369 --> 00:18:28.890 walls. How are you prepared as a church to meet 00:18:28.890 --> 00:18:30.450 them where they have to know that your church 00:18:30.450 --> 00:18:34.569 is a safe place and show that we're supposed 00:18:34.569 --> 00:18:37.269 to be different. We shouldn't be able to. There 00:18:37.269 --> 00:18:39.150 should be some kind of difference when you step 00:18:39.150 --> 00:18:41.619 into a church. No matter what church it is, it's 00:18:41.619 --> 00:18:43.859 different from what you are experiencing and 00:18:43.859 --> 00:18:46.140 seeing in the world. If you're also seeing that 00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:48.019 in a church, then you're not doing something 00:18:48.019 --> 00:18:49.740 right and you're not living what the scriptures 00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:51.640 are saying. So, yes, there's going to be some 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:55.440 scriptures that are, I want to say, like contradictory 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:58.500 or maybe have a different understanding than 00:18:58.500 --> 00:19:03.160 what we may have today. But the heart of what 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:06.680 God is hoping to do is laid out pretty well in 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:09.599 the Bible. You said something I want to key in 00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:14.920 on. If you look at this image, there's some hidden 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:17.099 things in this image. And I want to encourage 00:19:17.099 --> 00:19:19.240 you, over the weeks, to be paying attention, 00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:22.460 to be looking at it. One of the things that is 00:19:22.460 --> 00:19:26.079 hidden in it is that all of the tiles spell the 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:30.779 word safe, safer, or safest. Because that's one 00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:32.720 of the things that we're trying to move towards. 00:19:33.339 --> 00:19:36.019 For people to know that this can be a place that's 00:19:36.019 --> 00:19:39.759 not only safe, is becoming safer, and for some 00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:43.220 people might be the safest. So who else? Anyone 00:19:43.220 --> 00:19:46.200 have a thought of the biblical concept of Imago 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:48.660 Dei and how it should shape inclusion and diversity 00:19:48.660 --> 00:19:54.140 inside of a church? So I don't really have a 00:19:54.140 --> 00:19:58.299 really good answer for this, specifically because 00:19:58.299 --> 00:20:00.980 I'm still learning more about the Bible every 00:20:00.980 --> 00:20:03.859 day and how people interpret it and how I should 00:20:03.859 --> 00:20:06.539 interpret it. So I have mentors to help guide 00:20:06.539 --> 00:20:16.279 me. the bible a lot of times even now is still 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:19.859 very misused with scripture i had a friend last 00:20:19.859 --> 00:20:23.960 year really good friend he's just a little different 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:27.779 um and we got into a few disagreements just because 00:20:27.779 --> 00:20:32.799 he is an atheist and he used to be a christian 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:52.509 and he didn't really I bring this up because 00:20:52.509 --> 00:20:55.289 he would like to pull out certain scriptures 00:20:55.289 --> 00:20:57.769 from the Bible and kind of flip their saying 00:20:57.769 --> 00:21:01.150 and be like, yeah, you say this and you say the 00:21:01.150 --> 00:21:03.990 Lord is good, but here in the Bible is he really 00:21:03.990 --> 00:21:06.069 good and flip what it was saying and interpret 00:21:06.069 --> 00:21:18.980 it differently. Like, this is in the scripture 00:21:18.980 --> 00:21:22.400 and say stuff like that. So I think, like, I'm 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:24.299 still learning for myself. I mean, I know he 00:21:24.299 --> 00:21:28.579 was wrong because he didn't fully read the verse. 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:31.940 He was interpreting it wrong. Have you ever seen 00:21:31.940 --> 00:21:36.460 the movie The Book of Eli? Jake Van Dam, someone 00:21:36.460 --> 00:21:38.420 who goes here to the church, is doing an internship, 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:40.359 and he's getting a master's at Fuller Seminary. 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:43.400 But he was talking to me about an illustration 00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:45.990 he has from The Book of Eli. I'm going to ruin 00:21:45.990 --> 00:21:47.950 it for everybody, but the secret is that the 00:21:47.950 --> 00:21:51.410 bad guys want to get the only copy of the Bible 00:21:51.410 --> 00:21:53.710 that's left because they know that they can manipulate 00:21:53.710 --> 00:21:56.349 people with it, that they could use it as a tool 00:21:56.349 --> 00:22:00.150 to rule and to have power instead of something 00:22:00.150 --> 00:22:03.109 that would be a blessing to people. You go through 00:22:03.109 --> 00:22:04.750 the Old Testament, there are these moments where 00:22:04.750 --> 00:22:07.150 the Israelites find the Word of God again, they 00:22:07.150 --> 00:22:09.630 find the scrolls again, and their response is 00:22:09.630 --> 00:22:11.529 not to rule it over each other, their response 00:22:11.529 --> 00:22:14.720 is to repent. Their response is to weep at the 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:16.940 idea that they had found this again and look 00:22:16.940 --> 00:22:19.240 what the Lord has for us. How beautiful is that? 00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:22.460 Let us turn towards him instead of manipulating 00:22:22.460 --> 00:22:26.940 each other. And so you're hearing a theme that 00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:31.319 the Bible can easily be used as a hammer that 00:22:31.319 --> 00:22:34.920 you hit people with instead of a balm that you 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:37.839 heal people with. Marissa, you had something? 00:22:38.299 --> 00:22:43.000 Yeah. Scripture says, for God so loved the world. 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:50.400 The Bible is for the world. God is for the world. 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:54.420 It's not for white supremacist America only. 00:22:55.279 --> 00:23:01.339 I say that with a lot of conviction because if 00:23:01.339 --> 00:23:03.599 we really examine the word of God, there's a 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:07.059 lot of civil rights that take place. There's 00:23:07.059 --> 00:23:11.099 a lot of... You know, Jesus walking amongst people 00:23:11.099 --> 00:23:14.940 and saying, no, it's okay. I can be in this situation. 00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:17.039 No, you don't have to cut his ear off. I can 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:19.900 handle myself. There's a lot of civil rights 00:23:19.900 --> 00:23:23.559 that are going on. And if we are proclaiming 00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:27.619 the love of God in our lives, then we are to 00:23:27.619 --> 00:23:34.920 exemplify love. And to me, civil rights is exemplifying 00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:38.829 love. The love for humanity should be within 00:23:38.829 --> 00:23:43.890 us. And yeah, but I'm just going to leave it 00:23:43.890 --> 00:23:48.069 at that. So this next question is a very vulnerable 00:23:48.069 --> 00:23:52.529 question. And so if you don't all want to answer, 00:23:52.630 --> 00:23:54.710 you obviously don't have to. But has there ever 00:23:54.710 --> 00:23:57.509 been a time that you felt othered by Christianity 00:23:57.509 --> 00:24:01.690 or by the church because of your race and ethnic 00:24:01.690 --> 00:24:05.599 identity? And would you be willing? If not, would 00:24:05.599 --> 00:24:07.319 you either be willing to share that or would 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:09.359 you be willing to share a time that you felt 00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:16.519 included by the church? Yeah, so yes, I'm a black 00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:18.720 man in America. What do you mean? Yeah, absolutely. 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:24.019 So for a specific example, when you're a part 00:24:24.019 --> 00:24:26.000 of an organization, it's a faith -based organization, 00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:29.839 and the head of that organization is comfortable 00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:34.369 using... uh racial stereotypes as a key key moment 00:24:34.369 --> 00:24:38.569 with you um when you uh go off and you learn 00:24:38.569 --> 00:24:41.049 more about how do you take care of people and 00:24:41.049 --> 00:24:43.710 like i went to school again all this business 00:24:43.710 --> 00:24:45.630 knowledge leadership knowledge and things of 00:24:45.630 --> 00:24:48.410 that nature and you um come back and you and 00:24:48.410 --> 00:24:50.269 as you're studying as you're saying like oh my 00:24:50.269 --> 00:24:53.369 gosh like this person is not has not been treating 00:24:53.369 --> 00:24:55.869 me or other people that i know who are part of 00:24:55.869 --> 00:24:59.410 this organization right right um and i won't 00:24:59.410 --> 00:25:01.819 say names or nothing like that but Just to know 00:25:01.819 --> 00:25:03.940 that this was supposed to be the place where 00:25:03.940 --> 00:25:06.500 you should be able to be fulfilled, you should 00:25:06.500 --> 00:25:09.599 be able to be encouraged in a way that would 00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:14.539 bring fruit to your life and not destruction 00:25:14.539 --> 00:25:20.400 is something that happened often. As far as other 00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:22.200 churches, when I lived in Wisconsin for a little 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:27.660 bit, this was during the, I forget which shooting 00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:30.349 it was. It could have been the Jacob Blake shooting. 00:25:30.589 --> 00:25:33.829 But my wife and I were trying to find a church 00:25:33.829 --> 00:25:37.829 home there. And it was as some of the Black Lives 00:25:37.829 --> 00:25:41.549 Matter movement was starting to happen, speaking 00:25:41.549 --> 00:25:45.150 on the positive things, as far as getting the 00:25:45.150 --> 00:25:47.049 messages out and things of that nature. And we 00:25:47.049 --> 00:25:48.450 just went and asked, hey, is this something that 00:25:48.450 --> 00:25:50.490 the church is going to address? And one of the 00:25:50.490 --> 00:25:53.670 people we were speaking to was a Hispanic man. 00:25:53.789 --> 00:25:54.829 He was like, no, that's something that would 00:25:54.829 --> 00:25:57.930 never get addressed at the pulpit. Like, you 00:25:57.930 --> 00:26:00.329 will never hear a message about, like, you know, 00:26:00.329 --> 00:26:04.269 the plight of black people and what they will 00:26:04.269 --> 00:26:08.890 endure and things of that nature. I mean, like, 00:26:08.950 --> 00:26:10.990 looking at you, you're a big, scary -looking 00:26:10.990 --> 00:26:13.609 dude. So, of course, like, a police officer initially 00:26:13.609 --> 00:26:16.390 is going to be scared of you, right? So, this 00:26:16.390 --> 00:26:18.289 is at the church. I'm not outside on the streets 00:26:18.289 --> 00:26:21.230 nowhere. This is supposed to be the safest place. 00:26:21.329 --> 00:26:24.819 It was anything but that, you know? and made 00:26:24.819 --> 00:26:27.359 some kind of comment about my son at the time 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:31.579 and how big he may be someday and how police 00:26:31.579 --> 00:26:33.599 officers should be fearful of that. So that's 00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:36.880 just two examples of different churches from 00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:39.700 different areas of the country who have this 00:26:39.700 --> 00:26:42.160 view or perception of, for me specifically, as 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:44.400 a black man in America and experiences that you 00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:51.880 will have to endure. So that's . I'm going to 00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:57.559 address matter of resources so I used to belong 00:26:57.559 --> 00:27:02.660 to a congregation that was predominantly Mexican 00:27:02.660 --> 00:27:04.940 immigrants we didn't we didn't have a lot of 00:27:04.940 --> 00:27:07.960 resources financially like within the church 00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:11.599 and so we had other churches that were like our 00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:20.849 sister churches and my longest fight the whole 00:27:20.849 --> 00:27:23.710 time of being othered was that we were the outreach. 00:27:24.710 --> 00:27:29.049 But our goal is the same, was to reach lives 00:27:29.049 --> 00:27:34.250 for the kingdom, right? To reach out to others 00:27:34.250 --> 00:27:38.029 in love and to bring them to Christ. And so for 00:27:38.029 --> 00:27:44.049 the longest time, within that structure, I felt 00:27:44.049 --> 00:27:48.170 like our church was the outreach instead of standing 00:27:48.170 --> 00:27:53.309 alongside of us. and helping us reach out to 00:27:53.309 --> 00:27:56.089 those that we were reaching out to as well. And 00:27:56.089 --> 00:28:00.769 so I want that to make sense to others when we're 00:28:00.769 --> 00:28:06.109 providing a sense of funding or offerings or 00:28:06.109 --> 00:28:08.730 things that we give. We give from our hearts, 00:28:08.869 --> 00:28:11.849 or it should be coming from our hearts. It shouldn't 00:28:11.849 --> 00:28:15.450 be coming from a sense of, I feel sorry for you, 00:28:15.509 --> 00:28:17.750 I want to do this for you because I'm better 00:28:17.750 --> 00:28:22.440 than you. I have more than you. So if we are 00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:24.680 giving in that sense because we feel that we're 00:28:24.680 --> 00:28:27.079 better than the other person or because we have 00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:30.240 more than the other person and this is the only 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.900 reason, it needs to be reflected in that sense. 00:28:34.059 --> 00:28:37.900 And so I say that across the board. And I know 00:28:37.900 --> 00:28:40.099 I'm talking a little bit about resources and 00:28:40.099 --> 00:28:43.859 money, but it did feel like a sense of other 00:28:43.859 --> 00:28:47.660 in that sense. And if I can speak on the other 00:28:47.660 --> 00:28:50.279 side of it. So in dark places, there can still 00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:52.240 be light. And so we're going to go back to that 00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:55.880 first question, how God sees me. I mean, I'm 00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:59.059 looking out at three people that I do life with, 00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:01.900 you know, who came from that same dark period 00:29:01.900 --> 00:29:04.759 as far as, like, the environment that we're in. 00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:07.180 And I do life with these people, right? So you 00:29:07.180 --> 00:29:11.220 can always find light in God, even if you're 00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:13.099 going through, you know, awful stuff, right? 00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:17.410 I think about... my wife's best friend, who is 00:29:17.410 --> 00:29:20.990 also a pastor, and he was willing to have a conversation 00:29:20.990 --> 00:29:23.410 similar to this in front of his congregation 00:29:23.410 --> 00:29:26.390 in Calz, Indiana. So it was a very small town, 00:29:26.529 --> 00:29:29.589 and they had gone through this. another monstrosity 00:29:29.589 --> 00:29:32.410 was put up on their water tower, and he wanted 00:29:32.410 --> 00:29:36.009 to come and invite me in and some others in to 00:29:36.009 --> 00:29:38.630 have a conversation of what just happened in 00:29:38.630 --> 00:29:40.289 their town and how we can move and address that. 00:29:40.309 --> 00:29:42.130 So when we talk about being included, there are 00:29:42.130 --> 00:29:44.369 people who get it, and I feel like this church 00:29:44.369 --> 00:29:46.529 is a church that gets it and wants to make positive 00:29:46.529 --> 00:29:48.730 changes that impact, right? So conversations 00:29:48.730 --> 00:29:52.069 like this is just another example of how we can 00:29:52.069 --> 00:29:54.990 show inclusion within the church. I do want to 00:29:54.990 --> 00:29:57.990 counteract to that. You know, to the part that, 00:29:58.089 --> 00:30:02.470 yes, there is people that do have more than you 00:30:02.470 --> 00:30:05.289 and do want to give more than you, too. And that's 00:30:05.289 --> 00:30:08.190 a fact. And that's okay. It's about where it 00:30:08.190 --> 00:30:10.089 comes from. Like, we're in the heart that it 00:30:10.089 --> 00:30:12.710 comes from. And I have truly, honestly felt that 00:30:12.710 --> 00:30:15.269 this congregation gets it as well. And I didn't 00:30:15.269 --> 00:30:18.690 want to take away from my young voice here. No, 00:30:18.750 --> 00:30:21.549 that's fine. I personally have not experienced 00:30:21.549 --> 00:30:24.190 that in the church. Growing up as a kid, I've 00:30:24.190 --> 00:30:26.069 been very young. And, you know, playing with 00:30:26.069 --> 00:30:28.269 kids. You don't really stop to look around. If 00:30:28.269 --> 00:30:31.509 people are judging you, really, or if adults 00:30:31.509 --> 00:30:34.089 are talking about you, you're a kid. So I would 00:30:34.089 --> 00:30:39.410 say no. So in your view, what are some of the 00:30:39.410 --> 00:30:42.970 barriers that prevent churches from being fully 00:30:42.970 --> 00:30:46.730 inclusive and even equitable of racial and ethnic 00:30:46.730 --> 00:30:51.089 diversity? And how might we begin to remove the 00:30:51.089 --> 00:30:55.970 barriers that you see? um yeah i'm gonna i'm 00:30:55.970 --> 00:31:00.430 gonna say that um i asked this question one time 00:31:00.430 --> 00:31:04.670 too and if we look around the room and we want 00:31:04.670 --> 00:31:09.890 to see diversity it's nobody else's job but our 00:31:09.890 --> 00:31:16.089 own it's our job say what do you mean it's it's 00:31:16.089 --> 00:31:20.029 our congregation's job to invite the people that 00:31:20.029 --> 00:31:24.650 you want to see in your congregation If you look 00:31:24.650 --> 00:31:30.210 around the room and you're fine with where things 00:31:30.210 --> 00:31:35.390 are, I have a problem with that. I have a problem 00:31:35.390 --> 00:31:38.009 with that. I have a problem with if you look 00:31:38.009 --> 00:31:39.849 around the room and your community is diverse 00:31:39.849 --> 00:31:43.930 and you're not diverse, that's not okay. The 00:31:43.930 --> 00:31:46.009 kingdom of God is going to be diverse. I know 00:31:46.009 --> 00:31:48.450 everybody's theory is different on how we're 00:31:48.450 --> 00:31:51.170 going to recognize each other or not. But I know 00:31:51.170 --> 00:31:53.410 I'm going to be like, hey, it's my people up 00:31:53.410 --> 00:31:55.150 there, and I'm going to be partying with my people. 00:31:55.250 --> 00:31:56.529 And when you say your community, you mean the 00:31:56.529 --> 00:31:59.890 city. Yes. Because our city is very diverse. 00:32:00.130 --> 00:32:03.950 Yes. When you're in a city that is diverse, your 00:32:03.950 --> 00:32:08.609 congregation should reflect that. And it is up 00:32:08.609 --> 00:32:12.089 to every single one of us. Greg can rack his 00:32:12.089 --> 00:32:14.250 brain along with the pastoral leadership and 00:32:14.250 --> 00:32:16.230 the elderlies, and we can be like, how do we 00:32:16.230 --> 00:32:19.940 make our church more diverse? Is it the music? 00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:22.160 Is it the message? Is it how we wear things? 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:25.220 What is it? How we welcome people? Do we need 00:32:25.220 --> 00:32:27.660 to put signs outside? Do they need to be colorful? 00:32:27.980 --> 00:32:30.579 Do they need to be dressed in suits? Whatever, 00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:35.599 you know. Whatever he could think of. But if 00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:39.119 we're comfortable just looking around and seeing 00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:42.339 what's here now, then it's not going to change. 00:32:43.259 --> 00:32:45.920 Nothing's going to be different. Now there are 00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:48.619 things internally as leaders, you know, obviously 00:32:48.619 --> 00:32:50.779 that there are things that put in place, you 00:32:50.779 --> 00:32:54.420 know, that we, that you could try to do. But 00:32:54.420 --> 00:32:57.900 it is up to us as a congregation to want to see 00:32:57.900 --> 00:33:00.599 the difference. I'm just going to briefly mention 00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:05.819 that yesterday I was at an event and it was from 00:33:05.819 --> 00:33:09.920 one city and they were all one color in this 00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:14.640 group of dance. girls that are in a dance group, 00:33:14.779 --> 00:33:18.039 all one color. And then another city was all 00:33:18.039 --> 00:33:22.299 one color. And I was like, I noticed diversity 00:33:22.299 --> 00:33:25.259 in every single scenario that I'm in, not just 00:33:25.259 --> 00:33:28.180 church. I'm looking at it in my family. I'm looking 00:33:28.180 --> 00:33:30.299 at it in the workplace. I'm looking at it out 00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:34.779 in society because it's important to me. And 00:33:34.779 --> 00:33:37.119 so then I started thinking like, How does that 00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:39.140 happen? Like, how does that happen? Because I 00:33:39.140 --> 00:33:41.599 know that one city isn't just all one color. 00:33:41.779 --> 00:33:44.099 And I know this city isn't just all one color. 00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:46.700 So how does that happen? And then my marketing 00:33:46.700 --> 00:33:49.019 brain starts thinking they're just not reaching 00:33:49.019 --> 00:33:51.420 out to the right families. They're not offering 00:33:51.420 --> 00:33:54.579 this or they're not offering that. So when I 00:33:54.579 --> 00:33:58.420 look at my congregation and I know that it's 00:33:58.420 --> 00:34:00.660 up to me to invite the people that I want to 00:34:00.660 --> 00:34:06.130 see here. What are some barriers that prevent 00:34:06.130 --> 00:34:09.710 churches from being fully inclusive and equitable 00:34:09.710 --> 00:34:12.030 of racial and ethnic diversity? And how might 00:34:12.030 --> 00:34:19.530 we begin to remove those barriers? I would say 00:34:19.530 --> 00:34:22.809 being afraid of change. I, for one, am a person 00:34:22.809 --> 00:34:28.289 that's sometimes afraid of change. I, for example... 00:34:36.369 --> 00:34:38.769 churches with people of color and then people 00:34:38.769 --> 00:34:41.349 who aren't of color and that was kind of difficult 00:34:41.349 --> 00:34:45.550 because the environments are both very different 00:34:45.550 --> 00:34:49.250 and especially I would say being afraid of change 00:34:49.250 --> 00:34:53.269 and the aspect of we need to learn that every 00:34:53.269 --> 00:34:55.789 year or every day is a new step toward a better 00:34:55.789 --> 00:34:58.389 future and so we need to be able to face that 00:34:58.389 --> 00:35:01.449 change and take it headstrong and face it instead 00:35:01.449 --> 00:35:03.829 of being scared and I would say one thing I am 00:35:03.829 --> 00:35:06.460 a little afraid of change so a little like a 00:35:06.460 --> 00:35:07.800 part of the problem that you're talking about 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:12.659 i would say um i am really nervous when i bring 00:35:12.659 --> 00:35:15.159 my friends here just because like of where they 00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:17.920 grew up or if they grew up in like a predominantly 00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:20.500 black church because they're really different 00:35:20.500 --> 00:35:23.159 and sometimes they don't understand because they 00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:25.820 weren't raised in both churches or they didn't 00:35:25.820 --> 00:35:27.539 have the opportunity to go to both churches that 00:35:27.539 --> 00:35:30.219 they don't understand like the different environments 00:35:30.219 --> 00:35:33.019 and they feel like out of place and so then i 00:35:33.019 --> 00:35:35.659 feel scared to bring them to a place that they 00:35:35.659 --> 00:35:37.019 would feel out of place because I wouldn't want 00:35:37.019 --> 00:35:39.139 them to feel uncomfortable. So that's a little 00:35:39.139 --> 00:35:41.179 something that has to do with, I would say, like 00:35:41.179 --> 00:35:43.739 a barrier for diversity in the church is like 00:35:43.739 --> 00:35:46.960 being afraid of change and like facing your fears. 00:35:49.099 --> 00:35:51.119 I would say the biggest barrier is Western Christianity 00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:54.920 to the church would be the biggest barrier. Say 00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:57.500 that again. The biggest barrier to church is 00:35:57.500 --> 00:36:01.059 Western Christianity. Right. So church should 00:36:01.059 --> 00:36:04.119 be about you being able to improve your one on 00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:06.500 one relationship with God. And that's not how 00:36:06.500 --> 00:36:09.400 it is here in America as it stands today. Right. 00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:12.099 Church here is a business and it's here to make 00:36:12.099 --> 00:36:16.300 profit for most churches. Right. So if I. So 00:36:16.300 --> 00:36:19.320 to truly paint a better picture of that, I should. 00:36:19.340 --> 00:36:22.199 If you go to McDonald's here or in Hawaii, you're 00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:23.760 going to get the same set of fries. If the church 00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:26.039 was really living by God's word, you should. 00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:27.739 Everybody might have had to go church hunting. 00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:30.239 Like, what is that? Why should we be church hunting 00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:33.280 if we are all about trying to do the same thing, 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:37.119 if we're all abiding by the same scriptures here 00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:39.420 in Illinois, Florida, Texas? It should be the 00:36:39.420 --> 00:36:41.300 same thing, but we know it's not. We know this 00:36:41.300 --> 00:36:43.880 is still the most segregated hour in America. 00:36:44.059 --> 00:36:46.260 It's right now where we're all praising and singing 00:36:46.260 --> 00:36:48.619 songs and all that kind of stuff. There's still 00:36:48.619 --> 00:36:50.820 the most segregated hour here in America. So 00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:54.139 the barriers is that we've gotten away from it. 00:36:54.139 --> 00:36:56.400 It's working how it was designed to work here 00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:59.239 in America. So it's working. for those who it 00:36:59.239 --> 00:37:03.159 needs to work for. So to make that change, we 00:37:03.159 --> 00:37:05.079 have to get uncomfortable, right? Nobody wants 00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:08.199 to get uncomfortable, right? But once you start 00:37:08.199 --> 00:37:10.519 to do it, you can start taking steps. And it's 00:37:10.519 --> 00:37:12.300 about having conversations. It's about putting 00:37:12.300 --> 00:37:15.440 in practical steps and having difficult conversations 00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:17.920 so that way you can be a church for no matter 00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:19.320 who walks through your door. You should be able 00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:21.219 to walk through any church and be accepted for 00:37:21.219 --> 00:37:22.840 who you are. But we all sit in this room and 00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:25.519 know that's not the case, right? So the biggest 00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:29.670 barrier is that Our church, how it's set up now, 00:37:29.869 --> 00:37:34.309 is not about an individual and being led to improve 00:37:34.309 --> 00:37:37.269 your one -on -one relationship with God, what 00:37:37.269 --> 00:37:40.210 he's calling you as men and women to do of the 00:37:40.210 --> 00:37:42.989 people of God. So as long as that's not the case, 00:37:43.090 --> 00:37:45.449 as long as that's not being the case, then yes, 00:37:45.550 --> 00:37:48.090 the barrier is always going to be, well, I need 00:37:48.090 --> 00:37:50.389 to protect the finances of our church. I need 00:37:50.389 --> 00:37:52.829 to protect this X, Y, and Z of the church, right? 00:37:53.050 --> 00:37:58.440 So that means I need to... give a not great scripture 00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:00.679 because I want to support a political candidate, 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:02.619 then I'm going to do that, right? There's knowing 00:38:02.619 --> 00:38:06.199 that if I know, just pointing at my wife, because 00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:09.420 we had a conversation with a pastor when we were 00:38:09.420 --> 00:38:12.599 out in northwest Indiana. He was like, hey, you 00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:14.219 know, I'd rather be out there with the Black 00:38:14.219 --> 00:38:15.840 Lives Matters and doing this all kind of stuff, 00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:17.800 but I'm not going to do that because that's not 00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:20.360 what my sheep needs, right? My sheep need to 00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:22.860 hear a different message, right? So knowing, 00:38:22.980 --> 00:38:25.400 like, you're the pastor of this church, you know 00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:27.920 that, There's something in your spirit not telling 00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:30.260 you that something around you isn't happening 00:38:30.260 --> 00:38:33.019 correctly. But I'm not going to preach that message 00:38:33.019 --> 00:38:36.579 because that's going to rattle my sheep or whatever 00:38:36.579 --> 00:38:39.400 the case may be. So that's what's – I'm just 00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:41.280 keeping it real, right? Western Christianity 00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:44.559 is the biggest barrier to what the church has 00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:46.800 – that way God has seen it and the way God has 00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:49.480 called it is our biggest barrier. So as long 00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:52.059 as that exists, racial inequities are going to 00:38:52.059 --> 00:38:54.960 happen. the way women are treated in church is 00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:56.639 going to continue to happen. The way we treat 00:38:56.639 --> 00:38:58.159 our youth in the church is going to continue 00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:00.239 to happen. As long as it's a business, business 00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:02.780 is about profit and about the bottom line at 00:39:02.780 --> 00:39:04.360 the end of the day, nothing's going to move or 00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:06.880 shake that. So what are the practical steps that 00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:09.900 individuals in church communities can take to 00:39:09.900 --> 00:39:13.820 try to break that down, to make sure that it 00:39:13.820 --> 00:39:15.360 actually is a safe place for what we're talking 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:19.280 about? I want to say that we need to practice 00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:25.690 being transparent. I think that when things are 00:39:25.690 --> 00:39:28.550 happening in our community, when things are not 00:39:28.550 --> 00:39:32.170 going great in our city, when we see injustice, 00:39:32.550 --> 00:39:40.250 I feel included and I feel heard when members 00:39:40.250 --> 00:39:43.710 of my congregation say, hey, I heard about this. 00:39:43.769 --> 00:39:47.349 Do you have any idea how I can help? Do you have 00:39:47.349 --> 00:39:50.090 any idea what I need to be talking to my friends 00:39:50.090 --> 00:39:53.519 about? And I've heard that in this congregation. 00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:57.340 I have had friends in this community call me, 00:39:57.400 --> 00:40:02.099 text me, ask me questions about what can I be 00:40:02.099 --> 00:40:06.000 doing to help the community. I remember when 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:09.099 all of the stuff was going down with immigration. 00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:12.760 I mean, it's a scary world that we're living 00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:18.320 in right now. And I had friends in this congregation 00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:21.309 say, If you know of a family that needs to be 00:40:21.309 --> 00:40:26.929 housed. That's big. That's huge. You know, and 00:40:26.929 --> 00:40:29.849 how about we practice letting go of traditions? 00:40:30.409 --> 00:40:34.369 How about we practice relationships instead of 00:40:34.369 --> 00:40:38.889 just being traditional, traditional church and 00:40:38.889 --> 00:40:43.489 practice being in relationship with God and being 00:40:43.489 --> 00:40:49.110 in relationship with one another. Yeah. Amaya, 00:40:49.150 --> 00:40:52.409 do you have any ideas for practical steps that 00:40:52.409 --> 00:40:55.210 a church can take to break down barriers and 00:40:55.210 --> 00:41:01.570 make this safer? I would say one technique that 00:41:01.570 --> 00:41:05.269 I really liked, we did it with youth help. It 00:41:05.269 --> 00:41:08.489 was actually really scary, but the end goal was 00:41:08.489 --> 00:41:21.639 nice. was to go around at a track and field meet 00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:24.940 and go pass out cards to people our age and invite 00:41:24.940 --> 00:41:28.159 them to church. At the time, I felt like I was 00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:31.440 around 15, and so I was a freshman at the time, 00:41:31.460 --> 00:41:33.900 and that was really scary. Freshman in high school, 00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:37.960 you know, not a lot of people actually start 00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:39.840 going to church. I mean, not a lot of people 00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:41.480 continue going to church when they're in high 00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:44.440 school, and I learned that throughout high school. 00:41:46.539 --> 00:41:48.460 And so that was really scary. And a group of 00:41:48.460 --> 00:41:51.960 us, there was like 20 of us and like millions 00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:54.320 of people at that track meet. Like it was a lot 00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:56.460 because it was our first, their first track meet. 00:41:56.500 --> 00:41:59.380 So it was a lot of people. And even though there 00:41:59.380 --> 00:42:01.179 was a lot of us in the group, we were still very 00:42:01.179 --> 00:42:04.679 fearful of what people might think or what our 00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:06.099 friends might think. Even though they knew that 00:42:06.099 --> 00:42:09.219 we went to church, we weren't like openly like 00:42:09.219 --> 00:42:10.860 talking to them about it or having conversations 00:42:10.860 --> 00:42:13.079 about it. So the fact that like we had to go 00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:14.960 pass out these cards and say, hey, you want to 00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:17.690 come to church? next Sunday was really scary. 00:42:18.030 --> 00:42:19.869 But actually a lot of people ended up showing 00:42:19.869 --> 00:42:21.769 up and they ended up coming to church with us. 00:42:21.989 --> 00:42:23.570 And so I think that's like a really good idea 00:42:23.570 --> 00:42:25.869 to just, not even, you don't have to have a card, 00:42:25.909 --> 00:42:28.030 just like to go up to someone and be like, hey, 00:42:28.070 --> 00:42:30.889 would you like to come to our church? Like do 00:42:30.889 --> 00:42:33.050 you go to a church or like conversate with them 00:42:33.050 --> 00:42:35.610 every day? Like if you see like a worker at a 00:42:35.610 --> 00:42:37.070 store, you can have a conversation with them 00:42:37.070 --> 00:42:39.789 about it and just like say hi every day and then 00:42:39.789 --> 00:42:41.969 like lead up into it and be like, hey, would 00:42:41.969 --> 00:42:43.949 you like to come to my church this Sunday or 00:42:43.949 --> 00:42:47.159 something like that, something small. Corey, 00:42:47.179 --> 00:42:49.000 let me zero it in a little bit for you, okay? 00:42:49.880 --> 00:42:52.579 Because I think you got this, right? So take 00:42:52.579 --> 00:42:56.559 that question. Not big C church, little c church, 00:42:56.679 --> 00:43:00.119 just us. Just us. Just us. I was going to go 00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:04.280 in. Practically, because these are the people 00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:06.320 that are the one -on -one getting to know Jesus 00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:08.239 and then one -on -one getting to know each other. 00:43:09.500 --> 00:43:13.119 So we want to know part of this panel is what 00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:15.519 are we meant to be doing here in this room? And 00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:20.260 it can have. ripple effect, and it can end up 00:43:20.260 --> 00:43:22.039 going out and having an effect on other places, 00:43:22.099 --> 00:43:25.239 but for us, what do you think? Where I was going 00:43:25.239 --> 00:43:27.780 to go, I think it still can apply. Big church 00:43:27.780 --> 00:43:29.900 or small church is accountable leadership, right? 00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:32.800 Accountable leadership shows that you understand 00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:36.480 the needs of your sheep and what God is calling 00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:39.340 you to do and understanding, like, have those 00:43:39.340 --> 00:43:41.260 difficult conversations, right? I mean, we're 00:43:41.260 --> 00:43:46.619 literally spinning a church. days, service, you 00:43:46.619 --> 00:43:48.199 know, having this kind of conversation, right? 00:43:48.340 --> 00:43:51.840 So I think we're taking the right steps. Never 00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:55.320 stop, never quit quitting, right? So let's continue 00:43:55.320 --> 00:43:58.239 to try to reach out to different communities, 00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:01.340 but meet people where they're at, right? So is 00:44:01.340 --> 00:44:03.239 it that, you know, we invite other churches into 00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:04.820 our home or are we going into their home, right? 00:44:04.920 --> 00:44:07.719 Does it have to be just here, you know what I 00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:13.039 mean? More discussions like this. I'm sure there's 00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:14.440 gonna be a lot of questions that people have 00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:16.860 so maybe a follow -up if there's you know one 00:44:16.860 --> 00:44:20.219 of the Tuesday Activities if you want to continue 00:44:20.219 --> 00:44:22.420 on Continue these conversations because oftentimes 00:44:22.420 --> 00:44:24.099 people have a lot of questions and they don't 00:44:24.099 --> 00:44:26.159 have a safe place to ask the question Hey, I 00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:27.840 heard this about this group of people. Is that 00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:30.400 actually true? I don't know where to go asset 00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:32.760 because my only perception is what I see on TV 00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:36.199 or the small interactions that I have You know 00:44:36.199 --> 00:44:39.329 if the only time I've ever met black person is 00:44:39.329 --> 00:44:41.190 when he was stealing something at the store then 00:44:41.190 --> 00:44:42.949 everything about black people stealing must be 00:44:42.949 --> 00:44:45.150 true right so and we know that's not the case 00:44:45.150 --> 00:44:47.510 but what i'm saying is is continuing to have 00:44:47.510 --> 00:44:48.829 these kind of conversations because it's not 00:44:48.829 --> 00:44:50.750 going to be resolved here in these 45 minutes 00:44:50.750 --> 00:44:53.010 right so continual conversations about these 00:44:53.010 --> 00:44:55.030 things as things are happening and then going 00:44:55.030 --> 00:44:56.789 back to scripture and saying like hey is this 00:44:56.789 --> 00:44:59.130 true you know don't let immigrants in our country 00:44:59.130 --> 00:45:01.750 right but we worship an immigrant so like let's 00:45:01.750 --> 00:45:03.849 you know like what are we so what are we really 00:45:03.849 --> 00:45:06.429 doing out here right so continue continuing the 00:45:06.429 --> 00:45:09.510 conversation That's another practical step. Like 00:45:09.510 --> 00:45:11.869 I said, accountable leadership is a practical 00:45:11.869 --> 00:45:15.809 step. And let's see, usually it's a good three 00:45:15.809 --> 00:45:19.250 takeaways when you do these kind of things. I'll 00:45:19.250 --> 00:45:20.809 give you time to think about the last one for 00:45:20.809 --> 00:45:23.230 your last comment. Any last thoughts from any 00:45:23.230 --> 00:45:24.829 of you? And maybe Corey could come up with a 00:45:24.829 --> 00:45:26.630 third where you can include in that. Any closing 00:45:26.630 --> 00:45:30.130 thoughts from any of you? Yeah, just continue 00:45:30.130 --> 00:45:33.889 to show love. Continue to show love to your neighbor, 00:45:34.010 --> 00:45:37.769 the people that are not like you. Continue to 00:45:37.769 --> 00:45:43.269 ask questions. Continue to ask how you can be 00:45:43.269 --> 00:45:47.170 helpful in different situations, even if you 00:45:47.170 --> 00:45:49.590 don't understand them. I think conversations 00:45:49.590 --> 00:45:55.789 about worry and concern, even if you can't do 00:45:55.789 --> 00:46:00.750 anything about it to change it, still show your 00:46:00.750 --> 00:46:05.349 character. And it still shows God in you to say, 00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:10.260 What can I do? Even when you feel helpless, when 00:46:10.260 --> 00:46:13.000 you feel absolutely helpless, and you know that 00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:15.900 there's nothing in the moment that you can do, 00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:23.639 just saying, what can I do? And being aware shows 00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:28.599 a lot of growth, and it shows a lot of compassion, 00:46:28.980 --> 00:46:32.880 and it shows a lot of empathy to different situations 00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:37.239 that are going on within the world. and within 00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:42.159 our community. And I would challenge us to look 00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:48.920 at a global God. I can't say that enough. I can't 00:46:48.920 --> 00:46:53.199 say that enough that there's a whole thing that 00:46:53.199 --> 00:46:57.019 we could do on Western Christianity and all of 00:46:57.019 --> 00:47:02.840 those concepts. But if you are not... if you're 00:47:02.840 --> 00:47:05.179 not uncomfortable, if you're not having those 00:47:05.179 --> 00:47:07.440 uncomfortable situations, then you're not growing. 00:47:08.019 --> 00:47:17.420 And so growth, it has a sense of uncomfort within 00:47:17.420 --> 00:47:21.500 us that comes with it. And so growth in any area, 00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:23.880 and right now, growth in diversity and understanding 00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:28.539 should challenge a sense of uncomfort. Any closing 00:47:28.539 --> 00:47:33.699 thoughts? to strive for change, find guidance 00:47:33.699 --> 00:47:36.360 through prayer, and as well as be more involved 00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:40.559 in the community. Like for volunteering, volunteer 00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:43.079 for things. I personally don't like volunteering 00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:46.280 because there's no money in it, guys. I'm a girl. 00:47:47.780 --> 00:47:52.219 She's a little broke BFF right now. But I would 00:47:52.219 --> 00:47:54.119 definitely say volunteering. Volunteering helps 00:47:54.119 --> 00:47:57.239 a lot. That's the last thing, which is checking 00:47:57.239 --> 00:48:03.320 with people. Checking with people. Oftentimes, 00:48:03.460 --> 00:48:05.300 we all put on faces when we walk through the 00:48:05.300 --> 00:48:08.719 door, and the whole story may not be there. And 00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:10.639 it may not be in that moment they're ready to 00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:12.739 address it, but just checking in with folks. 00:48:12.820 --> 00:48:14.679 So that'd be my third takeaway. And then the 00:48:14.679 --> 00:48:16.980 final takeaway is just I just really appreciate 00:48:16.980 --> 00:48:19.739 this opportunity. Again, it's conversations that 00:48:19.739 --> 00:48:24.940 we need to continue to have. Things change. People 00:48:24.940 --> 00:48:28.719 have. different mental processes. Mentally need 00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:31.079 to process things because it's a lot that we 00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:35.360 just dropped up here today. I'm just happy to 00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:38.460 be a part of a church that I see that gets it 00:48:38.460 --> 00:48:41.840 and wants to strive to be what God has called 00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:46.460 us to be. So, you've probably heard some things 00:48:46.460 --> 00:48:49.179 you've never heard before. Some of you are going, 00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:52.960 what's Western Christianity? Some of you are 00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:55.550 wondering, oh, am I allowed to like... Black 00:48:55.550 --> 00:48:59.789 Lives Matter, that phrase. Listen, when we hear 00:48:59.789 --> 00:49:01.510 things that we've never heard before, that's 00:49:01.510 --> 00:49:05.369 the moment that you lean in and learn more. There 00:49:05.369 --> 00:49:07.789 is a resistance that our brain does when we don't 00:49:07.789 --> 00:49:10.570 understand something to try and contextualize 00:49:10.570 --> 00:49:13.389 it inside something we think we understand so 00:49:13.389 --> 00:49:17.630 that we can easily discard it. But this is a 00:49:17.630 --> 00:49:19.289 moment, every one of these weeks is going to 00:49:19.289 --> 00:49:21.809 be a moment where each one of us is going to 00:49:21.809 --> 00:49:23.550 hear something over the course of four weeks. 00:49:23.929 --> 00:49:25.610 That, oh, I hadn't heard that before. Or what 00:49:25.610 --> 00:49:31.150 is that? Go find out. Go find out. Because learning 00:49:31.150 --> 00:49:35.710 is a part of growing. And God is always giving 00:49:35.710 --> 00:49:38.090 us opportunities to learn how to love each other 00:49:38.090 --> 00:49:41.809 better and how to reflect the image of God that 00:49:41.809 --> 00:49:45.949 he has put in each one of us more fully and more 00:49:45.949 --> 00:49:50.090 clearly. Will you pray with me? Heavenly Father, 00:49:50.170 --> 00:49:51.849 we thank you for the diversity that is within 00:49:51.849 --> 00:49:55.619 you, Father, Son. Holy Spirit, I pray that now 00:49:55.619 --> 00:49:58.780 that we would know your presence in our hearts 00:49:58.780 --> 00:50:02.400 and that you would shine on us the sense of your 00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:04.440 image, that we would start to see it more clearly, 00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:07.019 that we would then look at each other and see 00:50:07.019 --> 00:50:11.139 it more clearly in each other. And over the course 00:50:11.139 --> 00:50:14.320 of these four weeks, that we would come out clear 00:50:14.320 --> 00:50:16.860 -eyed, even if we have new questions, even if 00:50:16.860 --> 00:50:18.639 we have new things that we didn't understand, 00:50:18.920 --> 00:50:21.699 that we would come out more clear -eyed towards 00:50:21.699 --> 00:50:24.650 each other. because of who you have created us 00:50:24.650 --> 00:50:28.070 to be. Amen? Will you thank our guests?