1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,440 The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts. 2 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,000 All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,420 Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages and is intended for a mature 4 00:00:22,420 --> 00:00:23,600 audience. 5 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:34,800 Listener discretion is advised. 6 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,440 Welcome back everyone to Cold and Missing. 7 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:38,840 Welcome back everyone. 8 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,880 I am your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski. 9 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,360 And I am your co-host, Eli Sulkowski. 10 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,760 Grateful husband to Miss Ali. 11 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:54,520 Alrighty, so we are on a cold case. 12 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:55,520 Missing. 13 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:56,520 Damn. 14 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:57,520 One day. 15 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:58,520 I've got him. 16 00:00:58,520 --> 00:00:59,520 Yeah. 17 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:00,520 We should keep a tally. 18 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:01,520 Alright. 19 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:02,520 Missing. 20 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:03,520 I'm ready. 21 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:10,400 So today we're going to be talking about the missing person case of Paul and Sarah Skiba 22 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,320 and Lorenzo Chivers. 23 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:20,120 And this takes place February 7, 1999 in Westminster, Colorado, which is a suburb of Denver. 24 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:24,760 And just as a trigger warning at the top here, we are going to be talking about a young person 25 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:29,720 today, as well as some graphic descriptions of evidence found. 26 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,000 So I just want to give that warning right off the top. 27 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,480 But first, let's learn a little bit about Paul, Sarah, and Lorenzo. 28 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,880 So Sarah, she's nine years old in 1999. 29 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:47,360 She was born July 27, 1989, and she was four foot, five inches, and 80 pounds. 30 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:52,600 Her family and friends describe her as friendly, outgoing, caring, and talkative. 31 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:57,320 A young girl who enjoyed dancing, singing, school, animals, riding her bike around the 32 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,200 neighborhood and rollerblading. 33 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,800 She was always happy and always full of spunk. 34 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,040 Paul is Sarah's dad. 35 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:11,120 Paul, in 1999, is 39 years old, and he was born February 23, 1960. 36 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,600 And he was six foot one and weighed 170 pounds. 37 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:20,600 Paul is divorced from Sarah's mom, and Paul fought hard for his custody agreement with 38 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:21,600 Sarah. 39 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:26,360 So ultimately, he would have his time with Sarah every Wednesday, which meant that he 40 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,640 would drive 100 miles every Wednesday to pick her up from school. 41 00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:35,280 And then Paul would always pick a hotel with a pool for them to stay at for the night. 42 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:40,200 And then he got to see Sarah every other weekend and all summer break. 43 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:45,020 He never missed a visit with Sarah, and he took his custody agreement very seriously. 44 00:02:45,020 --> 00:02:49,420 He's described as responsible, meticulous, outgoing, and a gentleman. 45 00:02:49,420 --> 00:02:53,740 Always wore a mustache, and friends said he was really into fashion, specifically going 46 00:02:53,740 --> 00:02:56,440 thrifting for designer jeans. 47 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:01,880 And Paul owned Tough Movers in Westminster, Colorado, and a customer of his said, quote, 48 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,640 if he said he was going to do something, he found a way to do it. 49 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:10,920 If there was a decorating emergency or someone had to have something quickly, he would figure 50 00:03:10,920 --> 00:03:12,140 out a way to do it. 51 00:03:12,140 --> 00:03:15,600 Very seldom would he say, no, I can't help you, end quote. 52 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:22,520 And that was Aaron Johnson of Aaron Johnson Antiques, who exclusively used Paul to move 53 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,960 their antiques to their customers. 54 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,040 Paul was also in a relationship with Teresa Donovan. 55 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,960 The two had recently had a baby together, but the relationship was on the rocks and 56 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,680 was described as on again and off again. 57 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:44,140 And then Lorenzo in 1999 is 36 years old, and he was born November 5th, 1962. 58 00:03:44,140 --> 00:03:48,640 And he is 5'10", and 160 pounds. 59 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:53,480 And he's described as a mellow and easygoing guy, could talk with anyone. 60 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,380 He never met a stranger in his life. 61 00:03:55,380 --> 00:03:59,520 He was the father of two, a 15-year-old boy and a 12-year-old girl. 62 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:04,280 And Lorenzo and their mother, Misha, were separated, but remained close and had a good 63 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,280 co-parenting relationship. 64 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:12,720 Lorenzo's son lived with him full time, and Lorenzo lived with Bobby Jo, who is Teresa 65 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,760 Donovan's sister. 66 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,320 And Lorenzo had worked for Paul at Tough Movers for a couple of months. 67 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:24,640 So these are some of the events that led up to February 7th. 68 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:30,480 On Friday, February 5th, Paul calls his mother Sharon, who had been taking care of some affairs 69 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:35,920 in Minnesota, but Sharon lives with Paul, and at this time, Teresa was also living with 70 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:36,920 them. 71 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:41,240 So Paul calls his mother, who is visiting Minnesota, and asks her if she'll come home 72 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:46,720 as soon as possible, because Paul had asked Teresa to move out by Sunday night. 73 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:54,360 On Saturday, February 6th, 1999, Paul is watching his best friend and employee, Jerry Bybee's 74 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,800 11-year-old son, while Jerry is on a moving job. 75 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:03,300 When Jerry picks his son up, he asks Paul if he could take tomorrow off, which is Sunday, 76 00:05:03,300 --> 00:05:07,440 so he could get together with his siblings and order flowers for their grandmother's 77 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:08,880 memorial service. 78 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,880 Paul says no problem, and he'll cover for Jerry, even though that means he'll have 79 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,840 to take Sarah to work with him, because Sarah's visiting him for the weekend. 80 00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:22,600 When Jerry and his son return home, his son tells his dad that he and Sarah had stayed 81 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:28,120 outside in a playhouse to stay away from a loud argument that Paul and Teresa were having 82 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:29,480 inside the house. 83 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:38,080 So this is Sunday, February 7th, 1999, and this is the last day that anyone sees Paul, 84 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:39,840 Sarah, or Lorenzo. 85 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:43,640 So Paul and Sarah head out for the day starting at 8.30 a.m. 86 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:50,280 At 10.30, Lorenzo, Paul, and Sarah arrive at their first moving job for the day in Thornton, 87 00:05:50,280 --> 00:05:51,280 Colorado. 88 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:56,160 At around 12.50, all of them stop for lunch in Lakewood, Colorado. 89 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,320 After lunch, the trio head to Morrison, Colorado for another moving job. 90 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:06,800 It's reported that around 6.15, Lorenzo, Paul, and Sarah are back at Tough Movers. 91 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,960 And at around 6.22, Sarah makes a phone call. 92 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:18,560 And CNN reports that Sarah called a 12-year-old relative of Teresa Donovan's, and Sarah told 93 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,500 them that they were returning the truck and that they would be home soon. 94 00:06:22,500 --> 00:06:28,380 When Paul and Sarah fail to return home, Teresa begins calling police, but Teresa says the 95 00:06:28,380 --> 00:06:30,480 police don't take her very seriously. 96 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,240 Bobby Jo also starts calling the police when Lorenzo fails to return home. 97 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,560 So that's Sunday, February 7th. 98 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:45,000 On Monday, February 8th, Teresa calls Paul's mom, Sharon, telling her that Paul and Sarah 99 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,720 had not arrived home the night before. 100 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:52,880 Sharon calls police who tell her that Paul had probably taken off with Sarah and nothing 101 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,240 was seriously wrong. 102 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,960 Police tell Sharon that Teresa and Bobby Jo had already called a number of times and that 103 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:00,160 they were aware of it. 104 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:05,520 And Sharon says, quote, this is my first phone call and there's something drastically wrong. 105 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,760 My son was supposed to call me on Sunday, end quote. 106 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:14,800 Michelle, this is Sarah's mom, also calls police in the morning to report Sarah missing. 107 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:20,160 Now, initially, Michelle thought that Paul had taken Sarah because Michelle had mentioned 108 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,720 to Paul that she was thinking about moving out of state. 109 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:29,680 So the Grand County Sheriff's Department actually issues an arrest warrant for Paul for parental 110 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:30,680 abduction. 111 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:35,680 But police do not believe that Sarah is in any danger because she's with her dad. 112 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:40,680 Lorenzo's son calls his mother to tell her that his dad didn't come home last night, 113 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:41,760 which was unusual. 114 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:46,200 He always told his children where he was going to be and when to expect him home. 115 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:51,760 Misha asked to talk to Bobby Jo, who said, quote, I know he's not coming home. 116 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,400 I know something terrible has happened to him, end quote. 117 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,200 So this is all happening Monday morning. 118 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,280 My friends are raising the alarm. 119 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:04,640 Now, Jerry, this is Paul's best friend and employee. 120 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,600 Jerry arrives at Tough Movers between 930 and 10 a.m. 121 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,720 Jerry, Paul and Lorenzo were all scheduled to work a job that day. 122 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,880 So Jerry noticed right away that the company's large moving truck was parked front first 123 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:22,060 and crooked when Paul always backed it into a specific spot. 124 00:08:22,060 --> 00:08:26,760 He says, quote, Paul was a neat freak, anal about everything. 125 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,440 So I'm thinking, oh, I can't wait to hear why the truck's parked like that because 126 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,160 Paul would have a story. 127 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,240 That guy could tell a story about anything. 128 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,700 He described things like nobody else could. 129 00:08:36,700 --> 00:08:39,620 He described food to you and you could actually taste it. 130 00:08:39,620 --> 00:08:44,200 I was waiting for him to come in ranting about something that had gone wrong. 131 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:48,120 It looked like somebody had just pulled in the yard at 50 miles per hour and hit the 132 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:49,800 brakes, end quote. 133 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:55,820 And that's Jerry by the Jerry also notices that the front gate padlock had been changed. 134 00:08:55,820 --> 00:09:01,560 So Jerry was unable to enter the lot because he didn't have a key for this new padlock. 135 00:09:01,560 --> 00:09:07,180 Jerry thought it was strange, but Paul would always change the locks after he fired someone. 136 00:09:07,180 --> 00:09:09,800 So he thought maybe this would explain the truck. 137 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,580 Maybe Paul had to fire somebody and he changed the padlocks last night. 138 00:09:14,580 --> 00:09:19,800 But when Paul and Lorenzo failed to show up for work at all, Jerry also calls the police 139 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,240 on Wednesday, February 10th. 140 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,280 So just a few days, the trio has been missing. 141 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:32,320 A Westminster police officer meets Jerry at Tough Movers and the police asked Jerry to 142 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:33,320 open the gate. 143 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:37,520 Jerry tells the officer he doesn't have a key and doesn't want to cut the lock off in 144 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:38,960 case it's evidence. 145 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:44,440 Annoyed, the police officer slams his car into the fence and jumps onto the hood and 146 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:45,760 over the gate. 147 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:47,780 He asked Jerry if he was coming. 148 00:09:47,780 --> 00:09:50,240 So Jerry follows this cop up and over. 149 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:56,560 Jerry points out a puddle of motor oil partly covered with plywood that had not been there 150 00:09:56,560 --> 00:09:57,560 before. 151 00:09:57,560 --> 00:10:02,720 Jerry points this out to the police officer and the officer says, quote, can you prove 152 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,680 that he didn't change his oil? 153 00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:05,680 End quote. 154 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:10,000 Jerry then went and checked the truck that was parked funny without touching it. 155 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,880 So Jerry looks into the cab and noticed it was very clean. 156 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,680 And he said, quote, that's unusual right there. 157 00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:17,680 The truck's clean. 158 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:19,240 We live in these trucks. 159 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:20,240 End quote. 160 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:24,440 When Jerry points this out to the officer, the cop grabs the door handle and whips it 161 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:25,440 open. 162 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:30,280 Jerry said, quote, I feel he destroyed more evidence than he was willing to look at. 163 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,400 To him, nothing unusual there. 164 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,200 I was disgusted with him. 165 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:35,200 End quote. 166 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,440 So the officer leaves Tough Movers unconvinced that a crime had taken place. 167 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:44,560 On Thursday, February 11th, Lorenzo's son had been staying with his mother since his 168 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:46,200 father hadn't come home. 169 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:51,800 And so Misha took him to Lorenzo's house so that way he could get some of his clothes. 170 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:57,400 But when they got there, they found that Bobby Jo had packed up the son's entire room and 171 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,440 put everything by the front door. 172 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:05,200 On Saturday, February 13th, Sharon arrives back in Colorado from Minnesota. 173 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,400 And she had been begging the police all week to look for them. 174 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,880 But police insist that Paul took off with Sarah and would be back soon. 175 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:17,160 Sharon tries to explain that Paul was so careful with the custody agreement, he would never 176 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:21,720 drop Sarah off late and he wouldn't jeopardize it by doing something like this. 177 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:27,760 When Sharon returns home, she actually hires a helicopter pilot to take her around to look 178 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,080 for Paul's car. 179 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:34,720 She had the pilot fly over Tough Movers and also over water because Teresa had been to 180 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:41,040 a psychic that told her Paul and Sarah were dead and Paul's car would be by a gravelly 181 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,240 area near a lake or river. 182 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:49,160 So Sharon has the helicopter pilot fly over these types of areas, but she doesn't find 183 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:50,160 anything. 184 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:55,960 Sunday, February 14th, so this is one week they have been missing, Paul's friend, Rich 185 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:02,640 Lesmeister, receives a call from Teresa saying that Paul, Sarah and Lorenzo were missing. 186 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,960 This is the first time Rich had heard of them missing. 187 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:11,800 Not only was Rich a friend of Paul's, but Rich also worked as an auto mechanic and would 188 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,120 work on Paul's moving vans and trucks. 189 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,420 So he was very familiar with the employees there as well. 190 00:12:17,420 --> 00:12:22,360 So Rich and his wife, Carol, spend the morning handing out missing person flyers. 191 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:27,400 And then that afternoon, Rich and Carol meet Sharon at Tough Movers. 192 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:32,240 They tell Sharon to wait outside the fence and him and Carol hop the fence. 193 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:38,560 Rich had been at Tough Movers recently working on rebuilding a motor for a 1978 Chevy moving 194 00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:39,560 van. 195 00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:43,520 So he was going to see if anything looked out of place, kind of similar to what Jerry 196 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,560 and the police officer had done. 197 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:51,360 This time, however, Rich and Carol, they find a smear of blood on the big moving truck door 198 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,600 and they describe it as a print from a bloody shirt sleeve. 199 00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:01,180 And then Rich finds the van that he had been working on and finds multiple bullet holes 200 00:13:01,180 --> 00:13:02,800 in the side of the truck. 201 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,720 The exterior of that same truck had a bloodstained smear across it. 202 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:13,000 And then also a piece of a human skull was lying near the windshield. 203 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,960 So once they find this piece of skull, they climb back over the fence and tell Sharon 204 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,400 it doesn't look good and that they need to call police. 205 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:26,800 Sharon first calls her other son, Gordy, and Paul's father, her ex-husband, that they 206 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:32,080 need to come to Colorado as quickly as they could because Gordy and her ex-husband, they 207 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:33,840 are back in Minnesota. 208 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,120 And then she calls police. 209 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:41,780 Now it takes a while for the police to arrive out there because again, they believe that 210 00:13:41,780 --> 00:13:46,880 it is a parental abduction, even though that doesn't explain why Lorenzo is gone in all 211 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:47,880 of this. 212 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:53,920 So Westminster police arrive at Tough Movers and basically an argument breaks out between 213 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,920 police and Paul's family and friends. 214 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:01,420 Rich says, quote, they threatened to arrest us if we didn't leave because there was no 215 00:14:01,420 --> 00:14:05,080 crime committed there and we should all go home, end quote. 216 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,600 This argument happens for a while too. 217 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:13,480 And Rich tries to explain to police that the big moving truck was never clean, but it was 218 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,440 spotless except for blood on the door. 219 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,080 And what about the bullet holes in the van? 220 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:24,680 They say that somebody could have cleaned the truck and cut themselves and left blood 221 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:29,280 behind and that the van could have been shot at while driving around. 222 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:33,800 Rich has to point out to the police that the van didn't have an engine in it because he 223 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,840 was rebuilding it and hadn't put it back in yet. 224 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:43,680 So this fight and argument with police lasts so long that Sharon has to leave to go to 225 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,920 the airport to go pick up her son and ex-husband. 226 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:51,440 So while Sharon leaves, more of Paul's friends arrive at Tough Movers to basically argue 227 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:52,680 with police. 228 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,680 And finally, police are like, okay, we'll look into it. 229 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,680 But now they're arguing over whose jurisdiction it's in. 230 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,320 Is it Westminster's? 231 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:03,600 Who should be taking care of this? 232 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,120 So now that's the argument that police are having with people. 233 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:12,840 After midnight, a patrol car from Thornton PD shows up and it's decided that Thornton 234 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:17,840 PD would take the case since the missing persons report was made with them. 235 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:23,840 So at 3 a.m. Thornton police take down everyone's name and information and tells them all to 236 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:24,840 leave. 237 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:31,080 Thornton police were going to wait for tow trucks to take the van and truck as evidence. 238 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:35,180 Sharon asked them before she leaves to secure the gate when they're done. 239 00:15:35,180 --> 00:15:40,040 So that lasts into Monday morning, but later that day on Monday, Sharon arrives back at 240 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:45,600 Tough Movers the next morning to find the gate wide open and no crime scene tape and 241 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,640 the place completely unsecure. 242 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:53,400 And this is also the first time any news reports are ran about them being missing, but they're 243 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:58,680 still calling it a parental abduction despite Lorenzo also being missing. 244 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:05,080 On Wednesday, February 17th, Jerry finds Lorenzo's vehicle parked at an apartment complex a 245 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:11,080 few blocks from Tough Movers, but there were no fingerprints found in his vehicle, not 246 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,620 even Lorenzo's. 247 00:16:12,620 --> 00:16:18,520 And then on Saturday, February 27th, Denver police find Paul's vehicle at an apartment 248 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:24,280 complex in Denver, about 10 miles from where Lorenzo's car was found. 249 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:30,420 Inside Paul's car were his personal belongings and Sarah's backpack filled with Beanie Babies. 250 00:16:30,420 --> 00:16:36,420 It was also noted that Paul's usually tidy car was covered in mud, but again, there were 251 00:16:36,420 --> 00:16:40,680 no fingerprints found in his car, not even Paul's. 252 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:46,820 In March of 1999, Sharon wanted to keep Tough Movers operating so Paul would have something 253 00:16:46,820 --> 00:16:48,440 to come back to. 254 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,900 Sharon asked police if they were done processing the trucks, if she could have them back. 255 00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:57,800 Police returned the trucks, but the van still had a piece of scalp on it. 256 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,800 Sharon asked, quote, do you normally give back a vehicle that still has evidence on 257 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:02,800 it? 258 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:03,800 End quote. 259 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:09,200 So police returned to Tough Movers, but this time they also have the Colorado Bureau of 260 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,880 Investigation, the CBI. 261 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:17,400 Police and CBI will conduct a luminal test and a luminal test will detect the presence 262 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,160 of blood, even if it's been cleaned up. 263 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:25,600 And the oil spot that Jerry had noticed the first time he was there with police was actually 264 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:27,860 blood mixed with oil. 265 00:17:27,860 --> 00:17:33,860 In mid-March, police and the CBI state that they have found evidence suggesting foul play. 266 00:17:33,860 --> 00:17:40,540 So along with the blood spot that was mixed with motor oil, there was evidence of a large 267 00:17:40,540 --> 00:17:46,080 amount of blood covering the back of the truck and cab, and that is discovered with a luminal 268 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:47,080 test. 269 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:52,840 DNA analysis will show the blood to be a mix of Paul and Sarah's, and due to the amount 270 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,760 found, police believe they are both dead. 271 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,320 The scalp piece belonged to Paul. 272 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,560 Hair found on the fender belonged to Sarah. 273 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:06,360 Lorenzo's DNA was not found at the lot, but police believe he could have been killed in 274 00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:09,000 a way that would not have left blood. 275 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,480 Witnesses will come forward and say they had heard a woman screaming the night that they 276 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:14,520 disappeared. 277 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:20,700 And Teresa will tell Jerry that she went to the lot that night, but not to tell police. 278 00:18:20,700 --> 00:18:26,200 Other witnesses say they saw a truck leaving the lot between six or seven times that night 279 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,320 before returning around midnight. 280 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:33,440 Police therefore believe that the bodies could, quote, not be more than a couple of hours 281 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,080 away, end quote. 282 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:39,760 An extension ramp, straps, and blankets were missing from one of the trucks, and police 283 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:44,080 believe that these were used to sink the bodies into a body of water. 284 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:49,600 Police believed water, because vegetation found in the radiator of the truck would indicate 285 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,160 that it had been driven near water. 286 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:59,060 In April of 1999, so this is two months, Teresa will take Sharon to court to gain control 287 00:18:59,060 --> 00:19:01,120 of Paul's estates. 288 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:05,600 And there was a lot of drama involving this, and I won't get too much into it. 289 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:10,060 Ultimately, Sharon will remain in control of Paul's estate and not Teresa. 290 00:19:10,060 --> 00:19:14,220 In March of 2000, Sharon dissolves Tough Movers. 291 00:19:14,220 --> 00:19:18,120 She wasn't able to keep the business going like she had wanted to. 292 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:24,680 On February 7th, 2002, Misha wanted answers for herself and Lorenzo's children. 293 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:31,500 So she sits down with Detective Pat Long, and he tells Misha and her son that Paul had 294 00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:36,960 been using his business as a front for narcotics and got tangled up with the wrong folks, and 295 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,400 Lorenzo was in the wrong place at the wrong time. 296 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,720 Police will also begin using the story in the media, saying Paul, Sara, and Lorenzo 297 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:51,640 were, quote, probably victims of drug violence, end quote, saying Paul, quote, wasn't a major 298 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:56,880 drug lord, but had a small client base that he sold marijuana to. 299 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,120 Paul's family and friends said he smoked marijuana, but he was not a dealer. 300 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:04,240 Quote, he's not the person they made him out to be at all. 301 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:09,080 Yeah, he dabbled and shit, but he was by no means a kingpin, end quote, and that is his 302 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:10,320 friend Rich. 303 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:17,240 Teresa will also go on the Montel Williams show and say drug dealers had a vendetta against 304 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:18,240 Paul. 305 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,320 Paul had rented parking spaces to them, but had recently stopped. 306 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,800 She says, quote, they sold Paul drugs, and they were the only people that could have 307 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:27,800 killed him. 308 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:33,040 I don't know if it was over the cars or anger over Paul trying to get over the coke, end 309 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,640 quote, and that is Teresa. 310 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:41,360 And then this is his friend Jerry Bybee, he says, quote, as far as theories, there's a 311 00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:43,160 million of them out there. 312 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:44,420 They all make sense. 313 00:20:44,420 --> 00:20:46,160 They all don't make sense. 314 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:50,920 Paul was a great guy, but he did have his enemies, people he had fired because they'd 315 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,600 gotten to an argument or something would get broken, end quote. 316 00:20:54,600 --> 00:21:01,680 And one of the people that had a vendetta against Paul, who Paul had fired, was Teresa's 317 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,120 brother, Tom. 318 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:06,920 Paul had fired Tom a few months before he disappeared. 319 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:12,920 After Paul disappeared, Tom would threaten Jerry saying, quote, you're next, you're 320 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:18,400 next, end quote, while throwing rocks at a tough movers truck Jerry was driving. 321 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:24,280 Tom would also call Sharon to tell her he was glad Paul was dead and that him and Sarah 322 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,320 had been shot in the head and Sharon was next. 323 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:33,320 Tom will eventually take Sharon and Jerry to court over money he was owed and at court, 324 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:38,640 Tom, quote, actually looked at Sharon, made his hands like a gun and motioned like he 325 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,420 shot her, end quote. 326 00:21:40,420 --> 00:21:45,880 And that was Bob Martinez, who was at court that day and had also worked with Paul. 327 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:51,800 In 2005, family and friends raised money to put up a billboard near tough movers trying 328 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:56,360 to get the word out about Paul, Sarah, and Lorenzo. 329 00:21:56,360 --> 00:22:02,040 That same day, police will announce that the case will move from Thornton Police to Westminster 330 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,040 Police. 331 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:08,040 Thornton had had the case classified as a missing persons case, but Westminster will 332 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,120 classify it as a homicide. 333 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:15,400 In December of 2006, this is over seven years they've been missing, Paul and Sarah are 334 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,600 legally declared dead in the court system. 335 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:25,040 And then in February of 2019, at the 20 year mark, police announced that they are reviewing 336 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,200 the case and basically starting from scratch. 337 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:35,240 A few years before they had done analysis on fingerprints they had been able to lift, 338 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:36,840 but nothing came from that. 339 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:41,440 But in this new review of the case, detectives had found two new witnesses that had come 340 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:47,080 forward and they also had planned on using updated DNA technology. 341 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:52,080 Police believe that quote, all three were murdered either at the truck yard or a second 342 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:57,240 location and detectives believe their bodies were removed from the yard in a moving truck 343 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,600 to an unknown location, end quote. 344 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:07,640 But that was February of 2019 and as of 2023, there's been no updates on the case, no DNA 345 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,540 hits that have been talked about. 346 00:23:09,540 --> 00:23:15,520 So that is all we know about the final days of Paul, Sarah, and Lorenzo. 347 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:24,820 If you know anything, you are encouraged to call Westminster police at 303-658-4360. 348 00:23:24,820 --> 00:23:34,520 If you want to leave a tip but remain anonymous, you can call Crime Stoppers at 720-913-7867. 349 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:42,040 And sources for today's podcast come from Westworld.com, specifically a 2008 article 350 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:47,000 titled A Cold Case Frozen in Time, which I'm actually going to link in our show notes. 351 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,440 So if you want to know more about the legal battle between Teresa and Sharon or just some 352 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:57,140 more details surrounding the case, this article really gets into everything up until 2008. 353 00:23:57,140 --> 00:24:03,420 The Denver Post, cnn.com, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, Westminster 354 00:24:03,420 --> 00:24:06,960 Police and the Charlie Project. 355 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,680 Okay. 356 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,680 Any immediate thoughts about the case jumping out? 357 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:19,760 Well, now what is all this about? 358 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:30,360 How do some of those specific things, like how does that happen when law enforcement 359 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:31,360 exists? 360 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:33,880 Oh yeah, law enforcement. 361 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,880 And has a... 362 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,960 Do your job. 363 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,760 Don't give something back with evidence on it. 364 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,400 It's just so... 365 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,120 I have no words, honey, honestly. 366 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:50,120 Yeah, I... 367 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:57,280 I was flabbergasted, shocked, angry, all those things. 368 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:58,420 When police's... 369 00:24:58,420 --> 00:25:01,520 Their first reaction was to ram the gate with their car. 370 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,520 I was like, oh, this is... 371 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,520 Well, this is... 372 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,440 Well, this went in a very different direction. 373 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:10,440 Yeah. 374 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,400 Law enforcement really dropped the ball on this one from the beginning. 375 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,520 Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with you on that one, honey. 376 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:18,520 Yeah. 377 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,440 Just saying it was a parental abduction, but it's like none of that explains why Lorenzo 378 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:23,440 was gone. 379 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:24,440 Yeah. 380 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:29,520 So sure, that's a good thing to maybe start at, but... 381 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:35,920 Yeah, they just kind of treated it like a buffet situation because there was some evidence 382 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,960 there to fill in a narrative. 383 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:40,960 They're like, well, here, here, here. 384 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:41,960 Here we go. 385 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,760 Yeah, it was just wild. 386 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,560 And then the first cop there that went with Jerry, Jerry's pointing out all this stuff 387 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,400 and the cop's like, well... 388 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:55,000 They were just explaining things away that were obvious signs. 389 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,040 The van was shot out while it was moving. 390 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,080 And it's like, the van doesn't have an engine in it. 391 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,620 It hasn't moved. 392 00:26:03,620 --> 00:26:06,080 This guy is rebuilding the engine right here. 393 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:07,080 He's testifying. 394 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,440 I have not put that engine back in that car. 395 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:10,920 It cannot operate. 396 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,900 Those bullet holes were not there when I was last working on it. 397 00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:15,400 Those were done here. 398 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:16,400 Yeah. 399 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,520 And they were like, it was shot out while it was driving. 400 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,680 So after that, then they start fighting about the jurisdiction. 401 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,040 But it was crazy to me that... 402 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,000 But then even that, that it like... 403 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,320 You're wasting so much time. 404 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:30,320 Yeah. 405 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,840 You're tearing off into that direction about like... 406 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,400 And at that point, a week had already passed. 407 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:36,400 But that's like... 408 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,880 I also thought like, is that what they wanted? 409 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,240 Just like causing a bunch of like red tape. 410 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:42,240 Yeah. 411 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,120 I don't know. 412 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:48,480 I like want to ask like, what else were you doing during that week? 413 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,360 Was there like some major crime events happening where you absolutely could not look for these 414 00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:53,360 people? 415 00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:54,360 I don't think there were, you know? 416 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:55,360 Did it fall during 9-11? 417 00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:56,360 No, it was 1999. 418 00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:57,360 You would have noticed. 419 00:26:57,360 --> 00:26:58,360 Okay. 420 00:26:58,360 --> 00:26:59,360 Yeah, it was 1999. 421 00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:00,360 So... 422 00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:03,880 And I was like looking at the newspapers. 423 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,000 There were no like major articles of like major police presence needed. 424 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,000 Yeah. 425 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,800 Or just like something wild. 426 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:11,800 Yeah. 427 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:18,600 Nothing that would require all of the police officers to not... 428 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:19,960 For nobody to look into this. 429 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,700 Like there was no reason nobody should have looked into this. 430 00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:25,640 From the beginning, they were like, Sarah's fine. 431 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,780 She's with her dad. 432 00:27:27,780 --> 00:27:30,360 There's a lot of police incompetence on this one. 433 00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:31,360 Yeah. 434 00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:33,520 I think it's important to name that here. 435 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:34,520 Yeah. 436 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:40,240 When you were describing her, Sarah, you said spunky and like some other sweet things and 437 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,000 I got teary eyed because it reminded me of... 438 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:49,240 Well, we have lots of nieces and nephews, but that's instantly who I thought about, 439 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:50,240 you know? 440 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,320 And just that like the senseless violence. 441 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:59,360 The backpack full of Beanie Babies, like that detail as a 90s kid. 442 00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:03,080 I was just like, yeah, that's real. 443 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,200 Like that was a real person with a real life and real things. 444 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,120 Yeah, like really, really like connected you to that moment. 445 00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:15,440 Because I remember the Beanie Baby craze and every once in a while we'd like stand in line 446 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:21,520 for one when there was like a cool one that came out, like a tie-dye one or something. 447 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,640 But yeah, I mean, it's... 448 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:30,960 No one should go missing, but like children aren't supposed to go missing, man. 449 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:31,960 You know? 450 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,920 Like, kids aren't supposed to be lost. 451 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:34,920 Yeah. 452 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:35,920 Well, that's the thing. 453 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,680 Like, there was a child lost in this case and it's like that's a crime. 454 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,560 That's something that you have to investigate. 455 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:43,560 Yeah. 456 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:51,120 Like, dude, I'm getting emotional because it's hard for me to like accept that there 457 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,840 are people out there who are in like... 458 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,280 Who can do something about it and are just like, we don't care. 459 00:28:58,280 --> 00:28:59,280 Or I don't want to. 460 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,440 Like, why are you there? 461 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,000 Why are you there then? 462 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,000 Right. 463 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,800 They think just because she was possibly with her dad, but it's like, again, that doesn't 464 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:14,280 explain this third missing person that this is wildly outside of his routine. 465 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,920 He always tells his children when to expect him, where he's going, what he's doing. 466 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,360 And he always tells the mother of his children. 467 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:25,720 And even if it wasn't, you know, like a mass effort, like multiple people looking into 468 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,800 it, like there wasn't even like one or two people who were like, okay, we're going to 469 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:35,440 like take this and like pedal to the metal, really figure out what happened here. 470 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,400 And like, do like look into it, like not even that? 471 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:44,560 Well, what I find in my research again and again is that if you are an adult, you are 472 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:45,840 allowed to go missing. 473 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,240 It's not a crime. 474 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:56,120 So police can't count it as a solved case unless a crime has been committed. 475 00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:02,840 So it's not up on their priorities because that doesn't ultimately count for like cases 476 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,680 closed at the end of the year when they get their funding, their rewards, the whatever's, 477 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,400 you know, all of that. 478 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,840 So to them, it's like, well, that's not my job. 479 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,200 That's kind of what it feels like in a lot of these cases is they're like, well, unless 480 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,440 a crime has happened. 481 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:19,440 Yeah. 482 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:24,640 But like people, people call, people call cops like heroes. 483 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,280 If that's like what you're signing up for, if that's what you want to be, then like actually 484 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,280 be one. 485 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:36,040 A hero like steps up and does the work outside of whatever you are being rewarded for. 486 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,120 Like that doesn't make any sense to me. 487 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,200 That doesn't make any sense to me. 488 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:48,480 I do not understand how anyone would become a cop other than wanting to not to police 489 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,480 people, but to actually serve and protect the community that you live in and that are 490 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:54,480 a part of. 491 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:59,640 Like I don't understand how anyone wants that job and doesn't want solely that. 492 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:06,080 I don't understand how anyone would want anything else but that in being a police officer. 493 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:13,280 Like power control, like any of that stuff that feels really bad to me if I find that 494 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,020 out about a person, you know? 495 00:31:16,020 --> 00:31:21,960 So I guess that's, I feel like I'm not being super clear about this, but like because like 496 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,480 I'm, I'm, I have emotions about it. 497 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:31,080 It just, it just feels like these people were left behind, you know? 498 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,080 Yeah. 499 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,200 But yeah, like thank you so much for sharing this with us. 500 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,840 Yeah, I had not heard of this case before and I couldn't believe it. 501 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:40,840 Me either. 502 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:47,440 I mean, every, every case, you know, we come across, it's like, how have I not known about 503 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:48,440 this? 504 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:55,840 And it really makes you, it gives you some perspective on how truly wild the world is. 505 00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:01,360 And honestly, doing this with you, honey, it really makes me, like when I'm out and about 506 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:06,000 in the world and I mean, you know me, I kind of do this anyway, but I really do like think 507 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,240 more about like people's experiences and like what they're maybe going through even in that 508 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:17,180 moment because like, you know, we've talked about so many different, like lovely people 509 00:32:17,180 --> 00:32:19,520 who are no longer here or like missing. 510 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:24,440 And I just like, as I'm moving through the world, I'm, I'm finding more delight in just 511 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,240 like all the people around me, you know? 512 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:33,040 And that like, like I love humans and like, yeah, like everyone should be here and like 513 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,040 thriving and happy, you know? 514 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:44,240 And you wouldn't think that like a podcast that involves true crime would do that, but 515 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:45,240 ours does. 516 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,240 It makes me, it makes me really happy. 517 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,240 Oh, thanks baby. 518 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:50,240 Yeah. 519 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:58,320 But again, that's the case of Paul and Sarah Skiba and Lorenzo Chivers. 520 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:05,760 Again if you know anything, please call the Westminster Police at 303-658-4360 or you can 521 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:13,000 call Crime Stoppers to remain anonymous at 720-913-7867. 522 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,040 And please follow us on Instagram. 523 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:21,800 We will be posting photos of Paul, Sarah, and Lorenzo as well as some other pictures 524 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,640 that pertain to the case. 525 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:30,000 From there in the link in our bio, you can find us on all your favorite podcast platforms. 526 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,320 You're listening to us right now. 527 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:37,400 So go ahead, like, subscribe, five stars, leave us a review if you're an Apple podcast. 528 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:38,400 We appreciate it. 529 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:39,400 Appreciate it. 530 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,960 And tell your friends about our podcast. 531 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:46,840 We really want to get these cases out to as many people as possible to try to get them 532 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,420 closed. 533 00:33:48,420 --> 00:33:51,000 So tell your friends about it if you're enjoying it. 534 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,440 That would mean the world to me, to us. 535 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:55,440 Yeah. 536 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:56,440 And... 537 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,800 But it's okay that you said me because you, you built this honey. 538 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:01,800 It's okay. 539 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:02,800 It does mean the world to you. 540 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,800 This is your, this is your calling, you know? 541 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:06,800 Yeah. 542 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:07,800 Yeah. 543 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,280 But yeah, that's it. 544 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,000 Have a good week and stay safe, y'all. 545 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,160 Stay safe, y'all.