The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts.
All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages and is intended for a mature
audience.
Listener discretion is advised.
Welcome back everyone.
It is our 15th episode.
I'm Ali, your host.
I'm Eli, as always, your co-host.
And this is Cold and Missing.
Yeah, we hope you all had some nice time with your family if you had the opportunity to
spend that time with them last week.
Yes.
There was a small update out of Delphi this past week if our listeners have been staying
on top of it.
Nothing really new happened.
The judge that is presiding over the case of the murder of Abby Williams and Libby
German, she is taking her time to decide if the court documents are going to stay sealed.
So that's where we're at on that.
But if anything changes, if we have a big update, we'll of course bring that to you.
That sounds good to me.
I've been getting those Google alerts now that we have them with the mutual Cold and
Missing email.
So it's actually really helpful because I've been able to keep up with everything and I
have a larger understanding of the criminal justice system and how it's not a linear trajectory
in any sense.
It's like swirly.
What is it called in The Good Place?
The Time thing?
Oh, Jeremy Bear Me.
Jeremy Bear Me.
That's what Cold and Missing cases remind me of, the timeline of Jeremy Bear Me.
Yeah, Jeremy Bear Me timeline.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Okay.
So I have a case for you this week, but I do need to give you just like a warning up
top that it is about an old person.
Okay.
I know you and some of our listeners as well, stories about older folks kind of hit harder.
So I just want to give that warning now.
And also just a trigger warning up top, there will be a mention of sexual assault in this
case.
So please take care of yourself.
So today I'm bringing you the case of Betty Rolf and she is 60 years old.
And this takes place in Appleton, Wisconsin on November 6th, 1988.
Right before your birthday.
I was 10 days away.
10 days away from being born.
Crazy.
Nine days actually.
Nine days.
Wow.
Ready to meet the world.
Okay.
So a little bit about Betty.
She's originally from Port William, Ohio.
And that is where she met her husband, Charles Rolf, when he was stationed nearby for the
Air Force.
And they have been married for 35 years in 1988.
They have five children.
35 years.
35, yeah.
They have five children and 10 grandchildren.
And Betty is described as an amazing woman, a wonderful mother, a famous cook.
She's known for her homemade bread, rolls, pies, and noodles specifically.
Noodles.
Betty's got noodles.
Awesome.
Betty and Charles have lived in their home on Spencer Street in Appleton, Wisconsin for
about 20 years.
And this is a quote from Teresa, Betty and Charles' daughter.
She says, quote, my mom was very caring.
She would do anything for anyone.
She had no enemies.
She wouldn't hurt anyone.
She was a beautiful woman.
She didn't drink or smoke or go out to the bars or anything like that.
Everybody that I know liked her.
And Betty works in the laundry department at Country Air, which is like a banquet hall,
reception space area.
So Saturday, November 5th, 1988, Betty runs into her daughter, Sheila, at the grocery
store and they make some small talk.
And then Charles says that they had a normal evening together.
They watched TV and then they went to bed kind of late, around 1 AM.
Originally, though, it is reported that Charles was at work during this time, but per his
account he was home.
That's interesting.
Yes.
That's two completely different, well, I guess if they're looking at him in any way, those
are two very different alibis.
Yeah.
And it's like the media that reported him as being gone.
So I just don't know if that was a mistake that gets corrected later on, but two varying
stories kind of off the bat.
So Sunday, November 6th, 1988, a heavy snowstorm engulfs Appleton, Wisconsin that morning.
And it's like the first big snowfall of the winter of 1988.
And that morning around two and a half inches fell.
So it was coming down pretty fast.
Betty, she doesn't like to drive in the snow, so she'll decide to walk from her home to
work.
And it's less than a mile to get to work.
It's just a little over half a mile from her home to her work, and it's on the same street.
So it's not a far walk or a hard walk by any stretch of the imagination.
And Charles says this, he says, quote, she always did that.
It would be 30 below out and she'd walk.
She was an old farm girl.
My car was sitting right there.
She could have taken it.
I didn't have to work that day until 3.30.
So at 5.30 AM, Betty sets off for country air.
She was scheduled to start work at 6 AM and assumed if she got to work early, her coworkers
would have let her in because she didn't have a key to get into the place.
But as far as we know, Betty never makes it inside of her job because her time card is
never punched.
There is some debate if she made it to country air and perhaps the doors were locked.
So she turned around and was maybe headed home, but she never made it inside of work.
Betty normally would have arrived home around 2 in the afternoon, but she fails to return
and immediately her family is worried.
Charles is worried, her husband, but he assumes she's running errands or babysitting a grand
kid.
And then when she isn't home that evening, Charles assumes she's babysitting for their
son who didn't have a home phone so he couldn't call and ask.
So he assumes that's where she is.
But by Monday morning, November 7th, 1988, when Betty still doesn't turn up, she's reported
missing at 1042 AM by one of her daughters.
The police respond pretty quickly.
An Appleton police officer, Warren Woodard, decides to retrace Betty's walk to work.
About halfway between her home and work, Officer Woodard finds Betty at the bottom of a railroad
underpass around 11 AM.
So about 20 minutes after she's reported missing, they actually find her body.
Her body is partially obscured by a concrete support wall.
Like a support wall, like those ones that are like half, like that come to your waist?
Kind of.
So where this happens on Spencer Street, it's a bridge that crosses over a railroad track.
Okay.
Betty is found at the bottom of the railroad underpass.
So she's off the road from my understanding.
She's like off the road and like kind of underneath this bridge more or less.
So you wouldn't really be able to see her.
Sure.
Betty is also found partially nude.
Her jeans and underwear were found next to her body.
She also has multiple bruises on her head according to newspaper reports, but police
never really confirm this, but later they will say that she was beat.
So this would lead me to believe that she was bruised up pretty badly.
I'm so angry.
Yeah.
Immediately, police begin to treat it like a homicide, but they're unsure if the attack
took place where her body was found or if her body was left there.
And a year later, they will believe she was killed where her body was found.
So they do think that everything happened kind of in this underpass.
Where's the bridge in relation to work?
Is it on the way or is it...
Yeah, it's about halfway between her job and her home.
So it's right on the...
It's on Spencer.
It's on Spencer Street.
It's right along the path.
It's right there.
They didn't...
Usually, for a cold case, the body is found a couple of miles away.
It's odd, but this is...
She followed the trajectory.
The evilness happened right on that path and then...
I feel like it rarely happens that way.
Yeah.
Totally.
Yeah, she's reported missing and 20 minutes later, they find her.
Wow.
Okay.
They're processing the scene and Teresa, Betty's daughter, was actually driving to her parents'
house to be with them since the mother was missing when she saw the commotion.
So she stops and was like, is that my mom?
And they're like, can you give us a description of her?
And then they tell her, yes, this is your mother that we found.
Oh my God.
So Teresa, her daughter, stands vigil at the scene until her mother's body is removed around
340 that afternoon.
That's so fast.
They had just...
Yeah, they were...
I mean, almost five hours.
It doesn't mean they were done processing the scene.
It just meant that they were okay to...
No, I just mean there wasn't even time for the family to have hope.
I'm sorry, I'm crying.
It's okay.
That's really...
I think you're right.
According to newspapers, police did find footprints at the scene and were attempting to lift them.
No reports on if anything came of that, if they were successful.
Families obviously shocked by their mother's death.
And Teresa, her daughter, mentions that a few days earlier, her mother had received
in a scene phone call, she says, quote, he was talking about sex and he was sexually
harassing her.
She didn't seem to know who it was.
She just figured it was some weirdo that picked her name out of the phone book, end quote.
Neighbors also report that they saw a suspicious man riding a bike near where the victim was
found as well.
So these are the leads coming out of the first day.
Wow, day one.
And this is like...
You said it's Appleton, Wisconsin, right?
It's relatively small community or...
It's like a good sized suburb, I would say.
So it's like...
Okay.
Like a small town where everybody knows everybody.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay.
Not like that.
So November 8th, this is Tuesday, the next day, Betty's death is reported in the newspapers
and her autopsy is done by the state crime lab.
And originally, police will say the autopsy showed no signs of sexual assault, but detailed
microscopic examination of the body determines that she was in fact sexually assaulted.
And for a long time, especially after her murder, they really backtrack, because everything
was reported that she had been assaulted and murdered, assaulted and murdered.
That was the headlines that were going.
And in the following days, police will really try to walk back the fact that she was sexually
assaulted and say that there's no evidence and that her body was possibly even set up
to look that way.
But three months later, they very quietly confirm she was sexually assaulted.
And they also determined that Betty died from asphyxiation and police would not confirm
if she was strangled or not.
And they stick to this over the years.
They never go any more detailed than saying she...
They never say what the method was, just that it was asphyxiation.
It was asphyxiation.
Yeah.
Police also make a plea to the community that anyone that saw anything Sunday morning to
come forward, please say her entire route is considered a crime scene, but the most
critical time being 6 AM.
So that's really when they want people who live in the area to think back.
Did they notice anything?
Did they hear anything around 6 AM Sunday morning?
The next day, newspapers are continuing to run Betty's story, but they also reveal that
she was a peripheral witness in a 1982 murder.
So in July of 1982, 25 year old Ann Peterson is sitting in a car with her brother, Mark
Peterson, outside of her boyfriend, Neil Johnson's house.
Neil comes outside and shoots and kills Ann.
Mark, her brother, begins driving to the hospital, but is overcome with grief.
So he stops at Betty's home and has Charles Jr., Betty's son, Mark's friend, to finish
the drive to the hospital.
Mark talked with Betty and he phoned the police from her home.
And Neil, this man who shot Ann, he is eventually found guilty of second degree murder and is
sentenced to 20 years.
But this is something that the newspapers kind of uncovered, this link to this other
murder in 1982.
On Thursday, November 10th of that week, a team of homicide investigators from three
different police agencies begin to canvas the area.
So Betty lives and works in Appleton, but just because of the way that the county lines and
the town lines run, she was technically killed in another-
County?
Or not county, but another town called Grand Chute.
That was where her body was technically found.
But because all these different jurisdictions, the sheriff's office leads the investigation
helped by Appleton and Grand Chute.
So that's why there's three agencies involved in this murder.
I mean, it's cool that they work together.
Usually it's not like that.
Usually it's not.
I was really surprised.
Was there to be the winner to find who did it?
Yeah.
And this group of investigators, they aim to interview everyone that lives between Betty's
home and her work.
So everyone that lives on Spencer Street.
Police also claim that they found the man riding the bike and interviewed him.
So this person that was reported as being suspicious has been found and cleared, it
sounds like.
And robbery is also eliminated as a motive at this point.
Body was found with $30 cash in her purse and nothing was missing from her person.
So everything was accounted for.
So robbery is not a motive for the murder.
And police say that there are tips coming from the public, but at this time they have
no suspects.
So Friday, November 11th, again, the police doubled down and they say that the forensic
pathologist in Madison, Robert Huntington, his report proves conclusively that she was
not sexually assaulted, but again, three months later, police will backtrack this and confirm
that she was sexually assaulted.
And police at this point are at a loss if she was attacked by someone she knew or if
this was a stranger.
They have no idea.
And then I thought this was interesting.
November 16th, so this is about a week and a half later, around 9.40 PM, a 33 year old
woman was forced into her building by a red bearded man wearing a camo jacket and blue
jeans.
She screams and he runs off.
And this happens on Spencer Street, about two blocks away from where Betty's body was
found.
And police refuse to confirm if this could have been related to Betty.
But I wonder, or at this time they believe pretty conclusively that she was not sexually
assaulted if they kind of write this off at the time.
I don't know.
I couldn't find any mention of this coming back again.
But I thought it was interesting that the same street, like another woman, had a very
close encounter with somebody.
On November 23rd, police announce a $500 reward.
They believe that there are individuals with information, but they're hesitant to come
forward so that money, they hope, will kind of loosen the tongues of those people.
On December 7th, 1988, Charles speaks with newspapers for the first time.
So any quotes I've said beforehand were just ones that were applicable for those days or
times, but this is the first time he speaks.
And so this is how the newspaper starts off the article.
Charles Rolf sat smoking camos in his untidy home Wednesday and talked about the murder
of his wife, Betty, four weeks ago.
And Charles, by all accounts, is pretty lost without his wife, according to his children.
Oh, God.
I know, honey.
It's me.
I know.
I knew this part would hit you.
I would be.
Oh, God.
Sitting in my underpants, smoking.
Camels.
I don't smoke camels.
I smoke Marlbrows, but yeah, same.
Yeah.
I don't know why.
It didn't say that he was sitting in his underpants, but that's how I imagine myself.
Just really.
All right.
Charles tells the reporter he was asked to take a polygraph test by police.
He says, police, quote, asked me to take a polygraph test, which I did.
And after spending five hours at the police station taking that thing, a cop, I guess
his name was Cook, he said the results were inconclusive, end quote.
So at first I was like, five hours seems like a really long time to be taking a polygraph
test.
Like, of course it would be inconclusive.
But when I actually researched that, the average polygraph interview was around four hours.
So that's about right, actually.
What?
I know.
I was shocked by that, actually.
Oh, god.
I know I would just like, I can barely have my, well, you've been in the room where they're
like, sir, we need to take your blood pressure.
And they do.
And they're like, is he about to have a heart attack?
Yeah, they're like, OK, you need to breathe.
Yeah, you need to try.
You need to try it again.
Like my test would be like, like, spike the whole time, just monitoring my anxiety.
Yeah.
Oh.
So I will ask Charles to go to Madison, Wisconsin to take another polygraph on a more sensitive
machine, but he'll say no.
He says his children don't want him to.
They didn't even want him taking the first one.
He says, quote, I didn't have nothing to hide.
There's an easier way to get rid of a spouse than that.
You just get a divorce, end quote.
Which attention Chris Watts, are you listening?
Attention Chris Watts, paging Chris Watts.
Like, yeah, you just get a divorce.
You don't have to murder your spouse if you want to get out of your marriage.
That's a PSA to all married people, by the way.
You could just do it.
I did it once.
Yeah, you got a divorce.
It's all good.
We're still really good friends.
It was as far as divorces go.
It's a pretty good one.
Pretty good one.
Yeah.
Charles also mentions that he had no life insurance policy for her.
So he has had to continue to work throughout this time.
Yeah, so what would be his motive?
Exactly.
And actually, in another interview, he says, I didn't write down the exact quote, but he
says something like, if I had a life insurance policy, I would be in jail.
Thank God for little miracles.
Yeah, he's like, thank God for being poor, finally.
Yeah, being poor paid off for once.
When Charles was asked his theory about what happened to Betty, he says, it may have been
some kook.
My wife didn't have an enemy in the world.
Even people who didn't like her liked her.
So February 2nd, 1989, this is about three months after Betty has been murdered.
Police are no closer to finding her killer than the day that she died.
And here is where police confirm that she was sexually assaulted.
But again, it's very quiet in the newspaper.
Police also confirm that she was beaten.
And Betty's children believe that it was a stranger as well that killed her.
Her daughter Sheila says, quote, I think it was just some idiot.
That's all I can think of because my mom did not have any enemies at all.
I just hope someday we find out what happened, end quote.
The only thing that can make sense to this family is that a stranger did this because
nobody could, they could not find a single bad thing against Betty.
Nobody had a negative word against her.
So November 6th, 1989, this would be the one year of Betty's murder.
The out of Gamey County Sheriff, Tom Drutston, he says, quote,
it appears to us that she was assaulted physically and sexually below the bridge.
That's where the whole thing went down.
That's the part I find baffling.
You almost have to rule out a motor vehicle, end quote.
I thought this was interesting, this quote, because it almost sounds like he's
implying because we know she was beaten, she was bruised.
So it sounds like her body was in rough shape.
But it almost sounds like they have to rule out her being hit by a car first.
And it's like, what person could hit somebody with a car and
then be like, yeah, let me just murder them.
Well, yeah, let's see this through.
Yeah, like at 5 AM, 530 in the morning, at 6 AM in the morning.
But that's what the sheriff says.
You almost have to rule out a motor vehicle.
The sheriff also says that Charles was never a prime suspect and
his home has never been searched.
But Charles no longer lives in the home he shared with Betty.
Their daughter Sheila is buying it.
She says, quote, me and my husband are buying the home, my mom and dad's home.
He didn't want to stay living here and I didn't want someone else living here.
And that's Sheila and her husband that are moving in.
And at this point, Charles has moved in with another widow.
And he says, quote, I'm over it pretty much now, time heals all wounds, end quote.
And it should be noted that his children are most definitely not over it.
And they talk about being in therapy for it.
On Wednesday, November 15th, 1989.
I was one year old.
One year old.
One year old, baby Eli's birthday.
I couldn't even walk still.
I still had my braces on my legs.
I didn't walk until-
You could start walking.
Before they're a year old.
Before they're a year old, really?
They start like, they get mobile that-
Toddling around, I think.
For real?
I think they start like pulling up and lifting up things.
Yeah, makes sense.
But like, well, I guess, yeah.
Yeah, I think you start walking around like, ten.
Yeah, I worked in a preschool with one year olds, so they were all walking.
I don't know why I sound so shocked by that.
So November 15th, 1989.
Sheriff Drutston received an anonymous letter from a man who was parked in
the area where Betty's body was found the morning of the murder.
And he says he saw three people in the area.
Two of them left and one of them was walking towards the murder scene.
The man says the one year news story had jogged his memory and
that's why he was writing now.
And police at this time say that they have found two out of the three people
mentioned in the letter.
This is Detective Robert Nelson here.
He says, quote, it turns out we can substantiate that they were in the area,
but in a totally different time frame, end quote.
And this has to be pretty on top of the police work
to find these people a year later and substantiate a story.
So I'm hoping in here where they're like,
we found the guy riding the bike a week later and rolled him out.
We found these people from an anonymous letter written.
Yeah.
I have to believe that they did in fact find those people and
aren't just saying it, but I'm like, that's really fast to find these people
in an anonymous letter, confirm that it's these people that is being talked about in
the letter, but they were here at a different time.
I don't know.
Maybe Appleton has the world's best cops.
I don't know.
After this one year mark, no real big updates in 1990 comes,
no real updates in 1991, this would be three years in December.
Police say they are looking at the case with fresh eyes.
And this is Sheriff Bradley Jenning.
He says, quote, I think any case can be chargeable, but
you have to look at whether we will have a successful outcome, end quote.
So I thought that was kind of suggesting that they had somebody that they could
maybe charge with the crime, but maybe they didn't think would hold up in trial.
Like there wasn't enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, but enough to charge.
That's what that kind of sounds like to me, but
again, no arrests have ever been made, no suspects.
So then no updates for 1992, 93, 94, 95, 96, the case really goes cold.
But in 1997, new genetic testing becomes available.
And this is the Polymerase chain reaction or a PCR test.
Like with COVID?
Different.
But what a PCR genetic test is,
it takes a small amount of DNA and
is able to amplify it to a large enough amount to study and compare.
So it's not a full DNA profile.
It's a magnifying glass.
Yeah, and it's really helpful for comparison and elimination.
So this testing, it was developed in the late 80s, but
by the mid 90s, it's kind of commercially available and available for use.
So- Wow, we love science.
We love science.
So samples taken from the crime scene are sent to a lab in California.
And investigators are super excited about this.
It's a step forward for them.
And from these samples that are set in, a DNA profile is developed.
And these test results, they come back in November of 1997.
So this is nine years since Betty has been murdered and
they have DNA for somebody.
But the test results come back and
the first person that they eliminate is Charles.
So Charles was their main suspect in this and it's not revealed until he's eliminated.
But they were like, they say their two main suspects were
blown out of the water by this DNA testing.
So Charles was one of them and they're never clear on who this other suspect is.
They never publicly name him or allude to him, but one is for sure Charles.
So I was a little suspicious after he was like, I'm pretty much over it now.
It's been a year man, come on.
But he is eliminated by this DNA.
Police at this time in 1997 with the elimination of Charles and another suspect,
they say that ultimately they've eliminated 25 suspects over the years.
None have ever been named, but police say they have been eliminated.
And then again, no updates, 98, 99, 2000, 2001, 02, 03, 04.
So in 2006 at 18 years,
police have resubmitted the DNA profile to see if they could refine it more.
This is Sergeant Gary Shortes.
He says, quote, the frustrating part is we have sent the DNA profile to
a national database and we have never gotten a hit.
One would think this person would have done this again and again until they got
caught, end quote.
So essentially police have sent the DNA profile into CODIS,
which is the national database.
So if you commit a felony for DUIs and you are arrested for it,
I think three DUIs is a felony at that point in a lot of states.
It is three, yes.
So that happens, let's say, when you're arrested,
they will take your DNA and put it into the CODIS system.
So even though you're arrested for drunk driving,
they could be like, why is your DNA coming up on these five unsolved murders?
Yeah.
So.
What's the deal?
So essentially any felony, you get your DNA put into the system.
And so police over the years, in unsolved cases,
and especially as DNA has become more relevant,
as I'm sure our listeners are aware and know,
police have reran items from old crime scenes to get DNA.
DNA developed after years of it being cold.
They submit it into CODIS.
They get a hit.
They're like, it's this guy who was arrested for X, Y, and Z 20 years ago.
And now he has this.
This happens a lot.
But as of 2006, how as of 2022, since we're covering this,
that DNA profile has never made a hit in CODIS.
So it kind of goes against everything that you think about serial killers.
Because it's like this person, whoever did this, did it before,
probably wanted to do it again.
But they either have never gotten caught, their DNA was never able to be developed.
You're there a first time offender or whatever?
Yeah.
And they never did it again, though.
Never did it again.
Or just never got caught.
If there were other unsolved murders that was also listed in there, those would hit too.
And so you could pull those as well and be like, oh, you have an unsolved murder in Tennessee.
He was sloppy the first time, maybe the second one.
He was like, why I wear gloves?
But why would he?
They didn't have DNA back then.
Why would he think of that?
Not even in the 80s?
Well, not like this.
They didn't think they could touch something.
They didn't?
No, they didn't think like that.
In 88?
No way.
They didn't think, if I touch this chair, my DNA is going to be on this chair.
They would think my fingerprints are going to be on this chair.
That's what I'm saying.
They would think fingerprints, but not DNA.
So this man's DNA has never been on any other crime scene.
Police say that whoever committed the crime was likely very angry given the level of violence and injuries.
Police also plan on re-interviewing the doctor who did the autopsy.
And again, this is Gary Shortaz.
He says, quote, we will go through all the photos and stuff so we can find something that was missed the first time, end quote.
And I thought that was kind of interesting, this like re-interviewing of the doctor,
because he doesn't say, so we can see if we missed something.
He's like, so we can find something that was missed.
So that's like very specific.
And I wonder if this has to go, if this goes back to like the back and forth in the initial days, weeks of her being sexually assaulted or not, if that is like what that's referring to.
But I thought that was an interesting quote.
And then again, this is her daughter, Teresa.
I just never give up hope and I keep hoping someday we will find out something, end quote.
So in 2008, it's been 20 years since Betty was murdered.
Police have a suspect, but it's just this DNA profile that they've developed.
And again, this is Gary Shortaz saying, he says, quote, it's amazing to me that this person hasn't been arrested for anything in the last 20 years that would have required him or her to have DNA profiled, end quote.
So again, this just goes back to this idea that somebody who committed such a violent crime, several violent crimes in this murder, never did anything that would require their DNA to be put in this national database.
So like that's very frustrating for investigators, her family, and I'm sure our listeners.
It was frustrating for me that this isn't, the DNA isn't popping up anywhere or linking to any other crimes.
In 2015, several of Betty's children have passed away and her remaining children have accepted that the killer will never go punished.
That's, that ain't right.
That ain't right.
That is where they're at.
Yeah.
Like it's been over 20 years.
This person's been living.
They obviously have not been arrested.
Like their DNA is not in the system.
So they're out living their life.
Police confirm the case is inactive.
It's open, but not being worked according to the sheriff's department.
November of 2019.
So this is 31 years after Betty's death.
Police announced they are reopening the case.
Mike Fitzpatrick, an investigator with the sheriff's office, is taking a fresh look at it and he says it's a large case file.
So that's always great that there is a large case file.
There's still no hits in CODIS and DNA developed from the crime scene has been used to eliminate everyone connected to Betty.
This implying it was likely committed by a stranger.
Fitzpatrick acknowledged the challenge in picking up a 31 year old case.
He says, quote, a lot of people who may have been witnesses may have passed away.
It's a possibility that whoever was responsible passed away.
End quote.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
So there's a chance that this person has passed away.
And in August of 2002, police say they are still reviewing the case and are hopeful it will be solved because of the DNA.
Because of the DNA profile.
OK.
So that's August of 2002.
But to date, no arrests, no suspects have been named.
If you know anything about the murder of Betty Rolf, you are encouraged to call the out of gamey sheriff at 920-832-5605.
OK.
So this is also a thing I think about the DNA.
Right.
Since there has been no hit on CODIS.
So this is just my opinion.
This is not listed anywhere.
This is just grade A opinion.
Since there has been no hit on CODIS, no other unsolved crimes linked to this, the DNA has not led to anybody within the criminal system.
I almost wonder if the DNA that was developed is from a police officer that was investigating the crime scene that day.
OK.
That makes sense.
And because they weren't thinking about DNA the way they think about it today.
Like in 1988, the way you process a scene is not the way you would process a scene in 2022.
Correct.
So I wonder.
And again, I don't know.
I don't know what the DNA was lifted off of.
So it could be like something biological, in which case this is from the person who did it.
No questions.
But if it's lifted off of something that was nearby the crime scene or like perhaps off of her clothing, like I wonder if a police officer is a police officer.
Who didn't have gloves on, sneezed, I don't know, like was just mishandling something.
Sure.
I mean, think about how often that happens even now.
Yeah.
In cases.
Yeah.
Cross contamination happens.
And I'm sure in 1988, it happened a lot without them knowing.
So it almost seems like they need to go back while these people are still alive and get their DNA to put in the system to be like this was a police officer.
And like, yeah, to help rule them out or investigate them because police officers can be doing stuff like that.
But I think they should have like people who are in on crime scenes and like work crime scenes, like your DNA should go in as well.
So that way they can rule you out as like cross contamination.
You know, but that's my only thought about where this DNA could come from since nothing has hit.
Because I would think that whoever did this has done it again.
Yeah.
Betty is not linked to any other unsolved or solved crime.
So I don't know.
The sources for today's podcast come from the Post Crescent and the Post Crescent, they followed the story and reported on the story more than anybody.
So like, I just want to give a big shout out to the Post Crescent.
The Chippewa Herald Telegram and the Wisconsin State Journal.
But that's it. That is the cold case of Betty Rolf.
Wow.
Yeah.
Her kids sound really amazing that they continue to like fight for her.
Yeah. Her daughter, Teresa.
Yeah. I mean, I guess Teresa is.
Well, Teresa died very unexpectedly in 2015, I think.
And I noticed that is like when like her children are interviewed.
It seems like Teresa was really like holding out like the hope for everybody.
And after Teresa died, like the rest of her children are like, it's never going to be solved.
Like, we've come to terms with the fact like that's like when the language like really shifts is after Teresa passed.
It seems so solvable.
Like they have the DNA like potentially they have the DNA of the killer.
Yeah.
And it just seems so solvable and like so kooky that this woman walking to work at 6 a.m. on a Sunday.
Like this is it.
And it was the thing that caught me was that it was an unexpected walk.
So it wasn't that someone had been watching knowing she's going to walk to work today.
You know, it wasn't it was just because it was snowing.
She didn't like to drive in the snow.
Yeah.
Which also leads me to believe like maybe that person knew that about her that she wouldn't drive.
So I'm like it wasn't planned, but maybe it was.
Yeah.
And you know, with this DNA police have ruled out everybody in Betty's life that was close to her.
So I'm assuming this is coworkers, neighbors, her husband we know was ruled out.
I assume even her children at this point, like everybody that was known to Betty has been ruled out by this DNA comparison.
So I just like don't know what happened.
And at 6 a.m. on a Sunday in Appleton, Wisconsin, like it's snowing.
So traffic is lighter.
Sure.
But I'm like, you know, people are people are going to church.
But it's dark.
And you know, that's true.
It is dark, but it just seems so bold to murder somebody at 6 a.m. on a Sunday.
Like that is not those are not murdering hours.
Yeah.
It's like one or the other.
Like you're you're like a crazy killer or you knew this person.
You knew where to go.
You knew where to get away with it.
You knew how to do it fast.
You know, yeah, it's like either it's a random person or it's someone who knows her, like knows her well enough that she might work today or she might walk to work today.
Like that's a very specific, chancy detail that you're taking if you know this person and you know the area, you know where to like do like conduct your evil.
Yeah.
But again, if they knew her that well, in theory, they've been eliminated.
Yeah.
You know, that's what I'm saying.
Like, so that's where it's odd to me that it's like this random this rando or or the other thing.
That's where my mind is sitting.
Yeah.
And then there's also the investigator who's like, you have to rule out a motor vehicle.
Like you almost have to rule that out because the injuries were so bad that you have to rule out that she wasn't hit by a car.
But even that's like, so somebody driving their car is just like, I'm killing somebody today.
Let me hit this person with the car.
First person I see.
Like, what happened to Betty?
Well, hopefully with this episode, we maybe some more answers can come to light.
What happened to Betty?
What happened?
Yeah, I want to know.
What the fuck happened?
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So yeah, that's all I've got.
That's it.
That's it for me.
I think I've said anything, honey bun.
All right.
Well, I love you.
Love you too.
And we love you.
Have a great week, y'all.
Stay safe, y'all.