1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,440 The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts. 2 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,000 All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,420 Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages and is intended for a mature 4 00:00:22,420 --> 00:00:23,600 audience. 5 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:51,960 Listener discretion is advised. 6 00:00:51,960 --> 00:01:04,120 cuid 7 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:13,080 M missing? 8 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,580 Yes, it's missing. 9 00:01:15,580 --> 00:01:16,540 It sure is. 10 00:01:16,540 --> 00:01:20,820 Is it, oh, is it like a baby? 11 00:01:20,820 --> 00:01:22,540 OK, cool. 12 00:01:22,540 --> 00:01:24,580 That's my threshold, apparently. 13 00:01:24,580 --> 00:01:31,740 That's an odd threshold for a true crime podcast. 14 00:01:31,740 --> 00:01:34,980 I know. 15 00:01:34,980 --> 00:01:38,020 I never know what I'm getting into when I sit on this chair. 16 00:01:38,020 --> 00:01:41,860 I just do the graphics and the tears. 17 00:01:41,860 --> 00:01:42,900 The graphics and the tears. 18 00:01:42,900 --> 00:01:44,420 The graphics and the tears. 19 00:01:44,420 --> 00:01:45,380 All right. 20 00:01:45,380 --> 00:01:49,180 Today we're talking about Kevin Graves. 21 00:01:49,180 --> 00:01:54,940 And this takes place at the Electric Forest Music 22 00:01:54,940 --> 00:01:58,700 Festival in Rothbury, Michigan. 23 00:01:58,700 --> 00:02:02,860 And we are going back to July 1, 2018. 24 00:02:02,860 --> 00:02:07,460 And Kevin is 28 years old in 2018. 25 00:02:07,460 --> 00:02:09,900 Are you wanting me to comment on how it's from Michigan? 26 00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:10,400 Yes. 27 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:11,820 OK. 28 00:02:11,820 --> 00:02:13,380 I'm at Michigan. 29 00:02:13,380 --> 00:02:13,900 Rothbury. 30 00:02:13,900 --> 00:02:18,300 Yeah, I know a lot of people who went to that festival. 31 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:21,700 People who were probably at the one that year. 32 00:02:21,700 --> 00:02:23,120 Yeah, you grew up in Michigan. 33 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:23,620 Yes. 34 00:02:23,620 --> 00:02:25,120 I'm originally from Detroit, but I 35 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,500 went to college in Grand Rapids, Michigan. 36 00:02:27,500 --> 00:02:29,780 What up, Aquinas College? 37 00:02:29,780 --> 00:02:31,100 Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew. 38 00:02:31,100 --> 00:02:31,600 A-Q? 39 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:32,700 A-Q? 40 00:02:32,700 --> 00:02:36,340 I have a degree in theater. 41 00:02:36,340 --> 00:02:39,300 My university doesn't even have the theater department anymore, 42 00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:42,860 which is what my degree is in. 43 00:02:42,860 --> 00:02:45,740 College is where dreams go to die. 44 00:02:45,740 --> 00:02:48,380 Sucks to my asthma. 45 00:02:48,380 --> 00:02:50,300 So a little about Kevin. 46 00:02:50,300 --> 00:02:55,860 Kevin is described by his family as loving and hardworking 47 00:02:55,860 --> 00:02:57,620 son and uncle. 48 00:02:57,620 --> 00:03:01,600 At this time, he's living in Highland Township, Michigan. 49 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,380 And he's been living there for the past three years 50 00:03:04,380 --> 00:03:07,980 with his girlfriend, Kayla, and her two kids. 51 00:03:07,980 --> 00:03:10,980 Gary Graves, Kevin's father, says, quote, 52 00:03:10,980 --> 00:03:14,220 he dropped whatever he was doing and come help me, end quote. 53 00:03:14,220 --> 00:03:17,340 Kevin was known to smoke weed, but also 54 00:03:17,340 --> 00:03:20,740 could have been into some harder drugs during this time. 55 00:03:20,740 --> 00:03:22,740 And his father says, God knows what 56 00:03:22,740 --> 00:03:25,980 he could have gotten into touch with while he was up there, 57 00:03:25,980 --> 00:03:28,540 referring to the Electric Forest Music Festival. 58 00:03:28,540 --> 00:03:31,820 What do you mean harder drugs, like Molly? 59 00:03:31,820 --> 00:03:32,820 There was a lot. 60 00:03:32,820 --> 00:03:35,180 I couldn't find anything. 61 00:03:35,180 --> 00:03:40,420 When I hear hard drugs, I think of heroin and meth. 62 00:03:40,420 --> 00:03:41,700 Totally, yeah. 63 00:03:41,700 --> 00:03:44,820 I couldn't find exactly what it was, 64 00:03:44,820 --> 00:03:47,540 but his dad said harder drugs. 65 00:03:47,540 --> 00:03:50,620 So that's just what I'm repeating here. 66 00:03:50,620 --> 00:03:53,820 But there hasn't been an official statement 67 00:03:53,820 --> 00:03:54,780 saying that he was. 68 00:03:54,780 --> 00:03:56,180 My addict brain. 69 00:03:56,180 --> 00:03:58,220 I was interested right away. 70 00:03:58,220 --> 00:04:00,860 Mm-hmm. 71 00:04:00,860 --> 00:04:02,780 I'm a recovering alcoholic. 72 00:04:02,780 --> 00:04:04,300 Very proud to be so. 73 00:04:04,300 --> 00:04:08,780 And Kevin is described as six foot tall, blue eyes, 74 00:04:08,780 --> 00:04:10,820 sandy blonde hair. 75 00:04:10,820 --> 00:04:13,220 He's 185 pounds. 76 00:04:13,220 --> 00:04:15,820 He has a United States Marine Corps 77 00:04:15,820 --> 00:04:21,100 tattoo on his left shoulder, red lips on his right hip, 78 00:04:21,100 --> 00:04:24,180 and an Aquarius sign on his right forearm. 79 00:04:24,180 --> 00:04:25,300 And he is an Aquarius. 80 00:04:25,300 --> 00:04:28,580 His birthday is January 23rd. 81 00:04:28,580 --> 00:04:30,340 Red lips on his right side? 82 00:04:30,340 --> 00:04:32,020 On his right hip. 83 00:04:32,020 --> 00:04:33,580 Right hip. 84 00:04:33,580 --> 00:04:35,540 That's a cool tattoo. 85 00:04:35,540 --> 00:04:36,340 I like that. 86 00:04:36,340 --> 00:04:37,300 Yeah. 87 00:04:37,300 --> 00:04:38,140 That's cool. 88 00:04:38,140 --> 00:04:39,420 We love a tattoo. 89 00:04:39,420 --> 00:04:40,340 Red lips, though. 90 00:04:40,340 --> 00:04:42,340 That's just like, that's cool. 91 00:04:42,340 --> 00:04:44,180 Never would have thought of that for a tattoo. 92 00:04:44,180 --> 00:04:44,660 Really? 93 00:04:44,660 --> 00:04:45,620 Like a kiss mark, right? 94 00:04:45,620 --> 00:04:46,220 Yeah. 95 00:04:46,220 --> 00:04:48,020 Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of. 96 00:04:48,020 --> 00:04:52,060 So June 28th through July 1st, this 97 00:04:52,060 --> 00:04:55,540 is actually the second weekend of the Electric Forest Festival 98 00:04:55,540 --> 00:04:57,100 and the last weekend of it. 99 00:04:57,100 --> 00:05:00,420 Kevin is so excited to attend the Electric Forest. 100 00:05:00,420 --> 00:05:02,780 His father says, quote, he was happy to go. 101 00:05:02,780 --> 00:05:04,220 He was looking forward to it. 102 00:05:04,220 --> 00:05:06,260 He'd never been to anything like that before. 103 00:05:06,260 --> 00:05:09,060 And he was looking forward to seeing what it was like. 104 00:05:09,060 --> 00:05:11,660 The next thing I know, he's gone, end quote. 105 00:05:11,660 --> 00:05:14,500 So the Electric Forest Festival, if our listeners don't know, 106 00:05:14,500 --> 00:05:17,020 it's a music festival that's held in Michigan 107 00:05:17,020 --> 00:05:20,380 that draws tens of thousands of people every single year. 108 00:05:20,380 --> 00:05:24,620 It started in 2008 and has been going ever since. 109 00:05:24,620 --> 00:05:29,260 It's usually one weekend, but in 2017 and 2018, 110 00:05:29,260 --> 00:05:33,300 the festival switched from the one weekend to two weekends. 111 00:05:33,300 --> 00:05:36,100 But they'll switch back to the one weekend in 2019. 112 00:05:36,100 --> 00:05:39,140 So it's only this short blip of time 113 00:05:39,140 --> 00:05:41,060 where they do the two weekends. 114 00:05:41,060 --> 00:05:45,140 And it's a lot of electronic dance music, jam bands 115 00:05:45,140 --> 00:05:46,220 and rock bands. 116 00:05:46,220 --> 00:05:50,660 And everything there is neon, glow in the dark. 117 00:05:50,660 --> 00:05:52,740 If you look up pictures of the Electric Forest, 118 00:05:52,740 --> 00:05:54,100 it's exactly what it sounds like. 119 00:05:54,100 --> 00:05:57,060 It's a bunch of lights in the middle of this wood. 120 00:05:57,060 --> 00:05:59,100 Bro, are you going to the forest this year? 121 00:05:59,100 --> 00:06:00,940 If you go to the forest, I'll meet you at the forest. 122 00:06:00,940 --> 00:06:01,420 Yeah. 123 00:06:01,420 --> 00:06:02,380 See you in the forest. 124 00:06:02,380 --> 00:06:04,500 Yeah, it's like forest fam. 125 00:06:04,500 --> 00:06:07,180 It's like a whole culture. 126 00:06:07,180 --> 00:06:08,780 Yeah, definitely. 127 00:06:08,780 --> 00:06:10,140 Like juggalos. 128 00:06:10,140 --> 00:06:11,700 Yeah, very much like that. 129 00:06:11,700 --> 00:06:14,100 They're different, more like fireflies, I guess. 130 00:06:14,100 --> 00:06:15,940 Firefly juggalos. 131 00:06:15,940 --> 00:06:20,500 The Electric Forest reminds me of just a bunch of fireflies 132 00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:22,700 in the forest, because that's what the people look like 133 00:06:22,700 --> 00:06:23,420 in the pictures. 134 00:06:23,420 --> 00:06:24,220 Yeah. 135 00:06:24,220 --> 00:06:27,540 That's what it reminded me of as well, actually. 136 00:06:27,540 --> 00:06:30,860 On Wednesday, June 27, 2018, so this 137 00:06:30,860 --> 00:06:34,420 is the day before all the bands officially start playing, 138 00:06:34,420 --> 00:06:37,420 Kevin, his girlfriend Kayla, and two other friends 139 00:06:37,420 --> 00:06:39,780 arrived to the Double JJ Resort. 140 00:06:39,780 --> 00:06:42,260 This is an outdoor camping recreation center. 141 00:06:42,260 --> 00:06:43,940 It's about 2,000 acres overall. 142 00:06:43,940 --> 00:06:44,980 It's really big. 143 00:06:44,980 --> 00:06:46,740 And this is where the festival is 144 00:06:46,740 --> 00:06:50,020 held every year, or most recent years. 145 00:06:50,020 --> 00:06:52,420 They arrived to camp for the last weekend 146 00:06:52,420 --> 00:06:53,540 of the Electric Forest. 147 00:06:53,540 --> 00:06:56,820 And by all accounts, the weekend was good. 148 00:06:56,820 --> 00:06:59,140 And they were having a lot of fun. 149 00:06:59,140 --> 00:07:04,340 Though Kayla does maintain that Kevin was acting strange, 150 00:07:04,340 --> 00:07:05,700 like kind of off. 151 00:07:05,700 --> 00:07:08,860 No specifics as to like what, but he was just 152 00:07:08,860 --> 00:07:11,020 kind of acting strange. 153 00:07:11,020 --> 00:07:13,740 So Sunday, July 1, 2018. 154 00:07:13,740 --> 00:07:16,180 This is the last day of the festival. 155 00:07:16,180 --> 00:07:19,820 Kevin sends two texts around 2 PM. 156 00:07:19,820 --> 00:07:23,660 One is to his sister, where he says, everything is good. 157 00:07:23,660 --> 00:07:25,380 I love you the most. 158 00:07:25,380 --> 00:07:28,100 And then one to his dad, saying that he was going to pay him 159 00:07:28,100 --> 00:07:29,780 back for a small loan. 160 00:07:29,780 --> 00:07:34,380 And then sometime later, the hours are unclear. 161 00:07:34,380 --> 00:07:38,300 Kevin and Kayla get into an argument. 162 00:07:38,300 --> 00:07:40,980 By all reports, it seems like Kevin 163 00:07:40,980 --> 00:07:44,420 accuses Kayla of cheating with their friend who 164 00:07:44,420 --> 00:07:47,380 was at the festival as well, of this mutual friend that 165 00:07:47,380 --> 00:07:48,340 had come. 166 00:07:48,340 --> 00:07:50,140 Gary Graves, Kevin's father, said, 167 00:07:50,140 --> 00:07:51,700 it was just a stupid argument. 168 00:07:51,700 --> 00:07:53,260 He was jealous or something. 169 00:07:53,260 --> 00:07:55,180 Somebody was talking to her or something. 170 00:07:55,180 --> 00:07:57,540 Boyfriend, girlfriend stuff, end quote. 171 00:07:57,540 --> 00:07:59,500 So Kevin walks away and says he's 172 00:07:59,500 --> 00:08:01,660 going to lay down at their tent. 173 00:08:01,660 --> 00:08:04,140 And Kayla and I believe the friends 174 00:08:04,140 --> 00:08:05,660 are with Kayla at this time. 175 00:08:05,660 --> 00:08:09,180 They continue to attend the festival and the music 176 00:08:09,180 --> 00:08:10,020 and all that. 177 00:08:10,020 --> 00:08:12,540 After he walks away, he stops by an ATM 178 00:08:12,540 --> 00:08:16,420 and withdraws $200 from a joint checking account 179 00:08:16,420 --> 00:08:18,380 he shares with Kayla. 180 00:08:18,380 --> 00:08:21,580 And there are no bank transactions after this 181 00:08:21,580 --> 00:08:22,900 withdraw. 182 00:08:22,900 --> 00:08:23,780 OK. 183 00:08:23,780 --> 00:08:26,060 I got just like an ATM at the festival? 184 00:08:26,060 --> 00:08:27,100 Yeah. 185 00:08:27,100 --> 00:08:28,940 There's like a lot of vendors there. 186 00:08:28,940 --> 00:08:30,140 Yeah, that makes sense. 187 00:08:30,140 --> 00:08:31,980 I was just like, wait, how did? 188 00:08:31,980 --> 00:08:35,220 For a second, I was like, is it in a little tree? 189 00:08:35,220 --> 00:08:36,660 A little glow in the dark tree? 190 00:08:36,660 --> 00:08:39,580 Yeah, you know, they rolled out those electrical cords. 191 00:08:39,580 --> 00:08:43,900 They're like, welcome to the fam, but we want to make money. 192 00:08:43,900 --> 00:08:48,420 So there is one report that after this fight, 193 00:08:48,420 --> 00:08:51,860 Kevin was high on drugs and was in the first aid tent 194 00:08:51,860 --> 00:08:54,860 for a while before he was kicked out of the tent. 195 00:08:54,860 --> 00:08:56,780 This isn't repeated a lot, so I don't 196 00:08:56,780 --> 00:08:59,820 know if this has been confirmed. 197 00:08:59,820 --> 00:09:01,820 But this is a report. 198 00:09:01,820 --> 00:09:05,340 And then another festival goer and camper 199 00:09:05,340 --> 00:09:08,180 says she saw Kevin crying at his tent, 200 00:09:08,180 --> 00:09:10,620 and she was going to invite him over but didn't. 201 00:09:10,620 --> 00:09:12,100 And this is something that she says 202 00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:14,860 she comes to regret that she didn't invite him over 203 00:09:14,860 --> 00:09:16,620 in light of him going missing. 204 00:09:16,620 --> 00:09:20,180 So some time later, when Kayla returns to the tent, 205 00:09:20,180 --> 00:09:23,420 Kevin's not there, but all of his personal items 206 00:09:23,420 --> 00:09:26,900 were left behind, including his cell phone and his car 207 00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:29,420 is at the festival as well. 208 00:09:29,420 --> 00:09:32,420 Kevin's father says, quote, Kayla said there was something. 209 00:09:32,420 --> 00:09:35,420 He just wasn't acting himself, and he just went off. 210 00:09:35,420 --> 00:09:37,260 So she don't know what he did. 211 00:09:37,260 --> 00:09:39,820 She has no idea, end quote. 212 00:09:39,820 --> 00:09:43,220 Kayla and friends say that they look for Kevin for hours. 213 00:09:43,220 --> 00:09:45,220 And this is a quote from Kayla. 214 00:09:45,220 --> 00:09:47,940 Quote, we walked around the rest of the day and night 215 00:09:47,940 --> 00:09:49,820 looking for him, end quote. 216 00:09:49,820 --> 00:09:53,720 So July 2, Kevin's officially reported missing to police. 217 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:58,460 And his family immediately begins to arrive in the area, 218 00:09:58,460 --> 00:10:01,820 and they begin checking homeless shelters, hospitals, streets, 219 00:10:01,820 --> 00:10:04,460 and beaches looking for Kevin. 220 00:10:04,460 --> 00:10:07,180 A few days pass, July 5. 221 00:10:07,180 --> 00:10:11,460 And this is something that I found strange. 222 00:10:11,460 --> 00:10:13,620 So this is from the Detroit Free Press. 223 00:10:13,620 --> 00:10:16,780 And this is Kayla, Kevin's girlfriend, talking. 224 00:10:16,780 --> 00:10:19,300 And she mentions that calls and messages 225 00:10:19,300 --> 00:10:20,900 are not going through to his phone, 226 00:10:20,900 --> 00:10:23,900 but his phone was left at the campsite. 227 00:10:23,900 --> 00:10:26,200 So it's like, wouldn't you know that none of them 228 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,860 were going through because he doesn't have his phone on him? 229 00:10:28,860 --> 00:10:29,980 Yeah. 230 00:10:29,980 --> 00:10:31,400 But it specifically says that she 231 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,380 says this, that calls and messages aren't 232 00:10:33,380 --> 00:10:34,500 going through to his phone. 233 00:10:34,500 --> 00:10:38,220 So I don't know if they found the phone a few days later. 234 00:10:38,220 --> 00:10:40,780 But by all accounts, it was left in the tent 235 00:10:40,780 --> 00:10:42,460 with his personal belongings. 236 00:10:42,460 --> 00:10:45,940 So I would think Kayla would know by this point 237 00:10:45,940 --> 00:10:47,800 that he didn't have his phone on him. 238 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,980 And she also says, quote, this is not who he is. 239 00:10:50,980 --> 00:10:52,540 He would not do this. 240 00:10:52,540 --> 00:10:55,380 He would reach out to somebody, even if it isn't me. 241 00:10:55,380 --> 00:10:58,860 I really feel something is extremely wrong, end quote. 242 00:10:58,860 --> 00:11:00,300 So it's very strange. 243 00:11:00,300 --> 00:11:03,220 And this is something that's repeated again and again, 244 00:11:03,220 --> 00:11:06,940 that it's very strange that he would not contact somebody. 245 00:11:06,940 --> 00:11:09,940 He talks to his mom every single day 246 00:11:09,940 --> 00:11:12,680 and texts with his sister very frequently. 247 00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:15,580 So it's very strange, no contact. 248 00:11:15,580 --> 00:11:18,860 Tim Graves, this is Kevin's brother. 249 00:11:18,860 --> 00:11:21,060 He arrived with the family to help search. 250 00:11:21,060 --> 00:11:24,540 And he began scouring the Muskegon area 251 00:11:24,540 --> 00:11:29,100 because a few witnesses reported that they saw Kevin. 252 00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:30,260 Oh, OK. 253 00:11:30,260 --> 00:11:33,020 But they had reported seeing him, quote, 254 00:11:33,020 --> 00:11:35,700 in rough areas of the Muskegon area. 255 00:11:35,700 --> 00:11:38,080 But I mean, as far as to go off like this 256 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,020 and be gone for four days is totally out of character 257 00:11:41,020 --> 00:11:42,260 for him, end quote. 258 00:11:42,260 --> 00:11:44,420 It's odd for anybody to do. 259 00:11:44,420 --> 00:11:44,940 Yeah. 260 00:11:44,940 --> 00:11:47,900 Really, if you're going to a festival for a weekend, 261 00:11:47,900 --> 00:11:50,420 why would you leave it? 262 00:11:50,420 --> 00:11:50,940 Yeah. 263 00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:52,500 It's odd. 264 00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:53,820 It is immediately odd. 265 00:11:53,820 --> 00:11:54,580 Immediately odd. 266 00:11:54,580 --> 00:11:55,780 Immediately. 267 00:11:55,780 --> 00:11:58,860 It's like going on vacation and then leaving the vacation 268 00:11:58,860 --> 00:12:01,020 and not telling a single soul where you went. 269 00:12:01,020 --> 00:12:02,220 And leaving all your things. 270 00:12:02,220 --> 00:12:06,020 Yeah, that's fucking odd. 271 00:12:06,020 --> 00:12:08,620 Are you about to tell me that someone bungled this? 272 00:12:08,620 --> 00:12:11,300 Oh, well, we'll get into this. 273 00:12:11,300 --> 00:12:14,500 I'm ready to be mad, Al. 274 00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:15,740 And this is, again, Gary. 275 00:12:15,740 --> 00:12:17,180 Quote, it's heartbreaking. 276 00:12:17,180 --> 00:12:18,180 I'm just tore up. 277 00:12:18,180 --> 00:12:19,380 He's my baby. 278 00:12:19,380 --> 00:12:20,700 I just want him to come home. 279 00:12:20,700 --> 00:12:21,860 That's all I want. 280 00:12:21,860 --> 00:12:23,100 I know his mother does, too. 281 00:12:23,100 --> 00:12:24,340 She's worried sick. 282 00:12:24,340 --> 00:12:27,380 If there's something anybody can do, we'd appreciate it, 283 00:12:27,380 --> 00:12:27,900 end quote. 284 00:12:31,420 --> 00:12:31,920 OK. 285 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:32,420 I'm sorry. 286 00:12:32,420 --> 00:12:33,940 Yeah. 287 00:12:33,940 --> 00:12:35,940 That sounded like I was sobbing and laughing at the fact 288 00:12:35,940 --> 00:12:36,420 that I'm crying. 289 00:12:39,860 --> 00:12:41,820 I knew that quote would make you cry. 290 00:12:41,820 --> 00:12:43,020 He's my baby. 291 00:12:43,020 --> 00:12:45,420 Yeah. 292 00:12:45,420 --> 00:12:47,340 It's also revealed during this time 293 00:12:47,340 --> 00:12:50,380 that Kevin does have depression. 294 00:12:50,380 --> 00:12:52,780 And he had gone off his medication 295 00:12:52,780 --> 00:12:56,580 in the past few months for it. 296 00:12:56,580 --> 00:12:58,260 This is just going to keep getting worse. 297 00:12:58,260 --> 00:13:00,980 I can feel it. 298 00:13:00,980 --> 00:13:04,780 So sometime during the week of July 15 through the 21st, 299 00:13:04,780 --> 00:13:08,300 police searched Double JJ property with canines, 300 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:10,660 but they don't find anything. 301 00:13:10,660 --> 00:13:15,380 On Monday, July 23, the Shiawassee Search and Rescue 302 00:13:15,380 --> 00:13:19,020 Group conduct a search for Kevin at Double JJ Resort. 303 00:13:19,020 --> 00:13:21,460 So Shiawassee Search and Rescue, these 304 00:13:21,460 --> 00:13:25,180 are retired law enforcement guys who get together 305 00:13:25,180 --> 00:13:28,620 and will help search for people in Michigan specifically. 306 00:13:28,620 --> 00:13:31,260 They're like Michigan retired law enforcement. 307 00:13:31,260 --> 00:13:33,780 They conduct this private search. 308 00:13:33,780 --> 00:13:36,660 It's just the search and rescue team and family. 309 00:13:36,660 --> 00:13:41,380 But again, Double JJ Resort is huge. 310 00:13:41,380 --> 00:13:42,340 It's 2,000 acres. 311 00:13:42,340 --> 00:13:47,300 About 20% of it is just deep woods. 312 00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:48,860 Only thing found during this search 313 00:13:48,860 --> 00:13:51,660 is a cell phone that was not Kevin's. 314 00:13:51,660 --> 00:13:53,900 And the group says that they're really slowed down 315 00:13:53,900 --> 00:13:56,380 because they don't have topographical maps. 316 00:13:56,380 --> 00:13:58,340 What does that topographical mean? 317 00:13:58,340 --> 00:14:05,300 Topographical maps are maps that show you elevation of surfaces. 318 00:14:05,300 --> 00:14:08,940 So you can see hills and valleys better on maps. 319 00:14:08,940 --> 00:14:10,180 I've seen those maps before. 320 00:14:10,180 --> 00:14:11,740 And I really like the ones. 321 00:14:11,740 --> 00:14:15,340 I've seen them of woodcuts in a picture frame. 322 00:14:15,340 --> 00:14:18,860 And it shows, but they're little lakes. 323 00:14:18,860 --> 00:14:20,300 Do you know what I'm saying? 324 00:14:20,300 --> 00:14:22,900 Yeah, they'll do topographs of the lakes. 325 00:14:22,900 --> 00:14:24,020 Yeah, I like those. 326 00:14:24,020 --> 00:14:24,660 Yeah. 327 00:14:24,660 --> 00:14:26,540 They look like little shelves. 328 00:14:26,540 --> 00:14:29,820 Yeah, they can make 3D models like that, 329 00:14:29,820 --> 00:14:31,260 where they look like little shelves. 330 00:14:31,260 --> 00:14:34,980 But the search team says they're slowed down 331 00:14:34,980 --> 00:14:36,060 because they don't have that. 332 00:14:36,060 --> 00:14:39,340 So they don't know where it's hilly and where it's flat, 333 00:14:39,340 --> 00:14:40,900 making it a little harder to search. 334 00:14:40,900 --> 00:14:42,060 Thank you for the lesson. 335 00:14:42,060 --> 00:14:43,860 Appreciate it. 336 00:14:43,860 --> 00:14:46,540 But during that week, July 23 through the 28, 337 00:14:46,540 --> 00:14:50,020 they start recruiting volunteers for a large search that's 338 00:14:50,020 --> 00:14:52,780 done that Saturday, July 28. 339 00:14:52,780 --> 00:14:57,300 And this is with volunteers, friends, family, and Shiawasi 340 00:14:57,300 --> 00:14:59,020 Search and Rescue. 341 00:14:59,020 --> 00:15:03,220 They also search a lake called the Lucky Lake that's 342 00:15:03,220 --> 00:15:04,860 on the grounds there. 343 00:15:04,860 --> 00:15:09,780 And at this point on July 28, the Shiawasi Search and Rescue, 344 00:15:09,780 --> 00:15:12,380 they begin calling it a recovery mission, 345 00:15:12,380 --> 00:15:14,780 as opposed to a search and rescue. 346 00:15:14,780 --> 00:15:15,900 What does that mean? 347 00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:17,580 So a recovery mission says that they're 348 00:15:17,580 --> 00:15:21,820 looking for a body and not somebody alive. 349 00:15:21,820 --> 00:15:24,860 The next week, another search is done with volunteers. 350 00:15:24,860 --> 00:15:27,900 And again, nothing is reported to have turned up 351 00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:29,860 during these searches. 352 00:15:29,860 --> 00:15:31,660 OK. 353 00:15:31,660 --> 00:15:32,980 Where did he go? 354 00:15:32,980 --> 00:15:33,660 What? 355 00:15:33,660 --> 00:15:37,780 Yeah, just without a trace. 356 00:15:37,780 --> 00:15:39,820 August 2018, so this is about a month. 357 00:15:39,820 --> 00:15:42,020 He disappears July 1. 358 00:15:42,020 --> 00:15:45,300 Around this time, Kayla will cut off all contact 359 00:15:45,300 --> 00:15:47,140 with the family. 360 00:15:47,140 --> 00:15:48,100 That's weird. 361 00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:49,620 Yeah. 362 00:15:49,620 --> 00:15:52,740 And police do say that her story has never 363 00:15:52,740 --> 00:15:55,820 changed about what has happened in the years that have followed. 364 00:15:55,820 --> 00:15:58,100 Her story has never changed. 365 00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:00,100 So I do want to include that there. 366 00:16:00,100 --> 00:16:02,940 But I agree that it is strange. 367 00:16:02,940 --> 00:16:06,580 But it does seem that Kevin's family, 368 00:16:06,580 --> 00:16:08,540 and I'll talk a little bit more about this later, 369 00:16:08,540 --> 00:16:13,460 but they do think that she is maybe withholding information. 370 00:16:13,460 --> 00:16:18,060 And if she isn't, and they're suspicious of her, 371 00:16:18,060 --> 00:16:20,780 I could understand why she would want to cut off contact. 372 00:16:20,780 --> 00:16:23,140 But again, it's pretty quick to cut it off. 373 00:16:23,140 --> 00:16:25,700 It's only a month he's been gone. 374 00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:28,100 But I also could, and again, maybe I'll 375 00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:31,380 learn as you continue in this episode, 376 00:16:31,380 --> 00:16:36,700 I'm just thinking to myself, if she had become the point person 377 00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:40,100 for this missing person, and she is 25 years old, 378 00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:44,620 and I don't know a lot about her, but she has two kids too. 379 00:16:44,620 --> 00:16:48,820 So I would imagine she's just like, I need 380 00:16:48,820 --> 00:16:52,220 to just be with my family right now, or I don't know. 381 00:16:52,220 --> 00:16:53,460 Yeah, and to her kids. 382 00:16:53,460 --> 00:16:54,420 So maybe it isn't weird. 383 00:16:54,420 --> 00:16:56,260 That's what I'm saying. 384 00:16:56,260 --> 00:16:57,660 Anything can be suspicious. 385 00:16:57,660 --> 00:17:00,220 Yeah, to echo what you've said before, 386 00:17:00,220 --> 00:17:03,660 is like, any time there's a magnifying glass over you, 387 00:17:03,660 --> 00:17:06,460 every movie mate could look suspicious. 388 00:17:06,460 --> 00:17:08,060 Everyone's watching you. 389 00:17:08,060 --> 00:17:11,860 Yeah, so I do want to say that it does seem suspicious 390 00:17:11,860 --> 00:17:13,380 that she stops talking to the family, 391 00:17:13,380 --> 00:17:17,020 but police say her story has never changed. 392 00:17:17,020 --> 00:17:21,140 So September of 2018, going on two months 393 00:17:21,140 --> 00:17:23,500 that he's been gone, psychics begin 394 00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:25,780 to reach out to the family saying 395 00:17:25,780 --> 00:17:27,300 they're having visions. 396 00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:29,060 None of those really pan out. 397 00:17:29,060 --> 00:17:33,980 September 15 through the 16, the Shiawasi search and rescue 398 00:17:33,980 --> 00:17:37,180 team and the family, they search some dead end 399 00:17:37,180 --> 00:17:41,060 roads and a swamp within the Double JJ resort, 400 00:17:41,060 --> 00:17:43,460 but again, no signs. 401 00:17:43,460 --> 00:17:46,620 And family at this point feel confident that Kevin is not 402 00:17:46,620 --> 00:17:48,860 at the campsite any longer. 403 00:17:48,860 --> 00:17:50,700 OK. 404 00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:52,100 Not a trace? 405 00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:55,380 As far as it's reported, nothing is found of him. 406 00:17:55,380 --> 00:17:56,620 No signs of him. 407 00:17:56,620 --> 00:18:00,380 So around October of 2018, there's this weird development 408 00:18:00,380 --> 00:18:02,220 in the case that should be mentioned, 409 00:18:02,220 --> 00:18:05,300 because it is mentioned a lot when talking about Kevin. 410 00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:10,740 So Kevin's sister Kelly receives around 100 messages 411 00:18:10,740 --> 00:18:13,180 over several weeks that her brother joined 412 00:18:13,180 --> 00:18:17,540 a fundamentalist Christian group called the Twelve Tribes. 413 00:18:17,540 --> 00:18:21,820 The Twelve Tribes is a communal farming community, 414 00:18:21,820 --> 00:18:23,580 and they're all over the world, where 415 00:18:23,580 --> 00:18:25,060 everyone works on the farm. 416 00:18:25,060 --> 00:18:28,780 Nobody has any outside jobs, and any money that is made 417 00:18:28,780 --> 00:18:32,260 is used for the farm as a whole. 418 00:18:32,260 --> 00:18:35,780 So I went on their website, and their FAQ section, 419 00:18:35,780 --> 00:18:40,140 they specifically say they are not a cult. 420 00:18:40,140 --> 00:18:41,580 If you have to say it. 421 00:18:41,580 --> 00:18:42,700 Yeah. 422 00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:44,700 If you have to say it. 423 00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:46,620 Oh. 424 00:18:46,620 --> 00:18:50,060 But anybody can come to the farm and visit. 425 00:18:52,660 --> 00:18:54,740 Anybody can go to any of these farms. 426 00:18:54,740 --> 00:18:56,860 And if you want to join, all you have to do 427 00:18:56,860 --> 00:18:58,900 is just go there and live. 428 00:18:58,900 --> 00:19:01,700 And they do, like they have children, 429 00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:05,940 but they're all taught on the communes, in the farm. 430 00:19:05,940 --> 00:19:09,620 So it's very cult-like. 431 00:19:09,620 --> 00:19:15,540 The Twelve Tribes, they also use as a recruitment tool 432 00:19:15,540 --> 00:19:18,260 these two buses called the Peacemaker 1 433 00:19:18,260 --> 00:19:19,900 and the Peacemaker 2. 434 00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:23,620 And they specifically go to festivals or concerts 435 00:19:23,620 --> 00:19:28,540 like the Grateful Dead, FISH, those kind of vibes. 436 00:19:28,540 --> 00:19:31,060 They believe that people at these concerts 437 00:19:31,060 --> 00:19:34,900 are in a place where they want to receive the message of God. 438 00:19:34,900 --> 00:19:37,980 They're in a spiritual headspace? 439 00:19:37,980 --> 00:19:40,340 Yeah, it's a fundamentalist Christian group. 440 00:19:40,340 --> 00:19:43,940 Yeah, but people who are at the festival 441 00:19:43,940 --> 00:19:48,020 are probably at least energetically inclined. 442 00:19:48,020 --> 00:19:50,780 Yeah, these people are like seekers. 443 00:19:50,780 --> 00:19:56,020 They would be maybe somebody who would grab onto communal living. 444 00:19:56,020 --> 00:19:58,380 Someone who would be susceptible to falling 445 00:19:58,380 --> 00:20:00,860 into manipulation of a cult? 446 00:20:00,860 --> 00:20:02,060 Yes. 447 00:20:02,060 --> 00:20:04,180 So they have these buses at festivals 448 00:20:04,180 --> 00:20:06,020 where they invite people on. 449 00:20:06,020 --> 00:20:09,220 Peacemaker 1, they're purple. 450 00:20:09,220 --> 00:20:12,860 If you are a festival-goer, watch out. 451 00:20:12,860 --> 00:20:15,380 Oh, so we're immediately shitting on these people already? 452 00:20:15,380 --> 00:20:16,740 I'm immediately shitting on them. 453 00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:17,940 I read their FAQs. 454 00:20:17,940 --> 00:20:19,980 It does not seem great to live there. 455 00:20:19,980 --> 00:20:21,340 Yeah. 456 00:20:21,340 --> 00:20:22,260 Understood. 457 00:20:22,260 --> 00:20:22,780 Yes. 458 00:20:22,780 --> 00:20:23,940 I'm nervous. 459 00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:26,220 Yeah, the 12 tribes, I would not go live there. 460 00:20:26,220 --> 00:20:32,140 Kevin's sister, Kelly, she finds this 1-800 number on their website 461 00:20:32,140 --> 00:20:34,620 and calls and is like, is my brother there? 462 00:20:34,620 --> 00:20:37,220 So this guy named Tim calls around. 463 00:20:37,220 --> 00:20:38,540 Tim. 464 00:20:38,540 --> 00:20:40,620 No last name, just Tim. 465 00:20:40,620 --> 00:20:43,340 So Tim calls around to these other farms. 466 00:20:43,340 --> 00:20:45,380 And there's a lot of them all over the world. 467 00:20:45,380 --> 00:20:49,580 So he does this pretty quickly and says, no, he's not here. 468 00:20:49,580 --> 00:20:50,540 None of them know him. 469 00:20:50,540 --> 00:20:56,500 But it does turn out that the 12 tribes, their bus, 470 00:20:56,500 --> 00:21:01,060 their little recruiter bus, was not at the festival that year. 471 00:21:01,060 --> 00:21:06,660 So the family does not think that this is a lead any longer, 472 00:21:06,660 --> 00:21:10,340 that they found out that the buses weren't even being used that summer. 473 00:21:10,340 --> 00:21:12,860 They were out of commission or something like that. 474 00:21:12,860 --> 00:21:16,460 So Sergeant David Bach from the Oakland County Sheriff's Office, 475 00:21:16,460 --> 00:21:21,420 he says, quote, I have no evidence to support in any way 476 00:21:21,420 --> 00:21:24,060 that anything nefarious happened to him. 477 00:21:24,060 --> 00:21:26,620 My feeling is he walked away from there. 478 00:21:26,620 --> 00:21:31,300 His goal was to be part of the lore of the festival of people who disappeared, 479 00:21:31,300 --> 00:21:33,580 end quote. 480 00:21:33,580 --> 00:21:35,460 There's a little bit to unpack here. 481 00:21:35,460 --> 00:21:37,980 He says there's no evidence that anything nefarious happened. 482 00:21:37,980 --> 00:21:41,380 And then he immediately shifts to his feelings of what he thinks happened 483 00:21:41,380 --> 00:21:44,140 again with no evidence. 484 00:21:44,140 --> 00:21:45,180 Who is it again? 485 00:21:45,180 --> 00:21:46,220 Sergeant David Bach. 486 00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:48,220 Oh, Jesus. 487 00:21:48,220 --> 00:21:50,300 He's like, everybody, listen up. 488 00:21:50,300 --> 00:21:52,220 This is the deal. 489 00:21:52,220 --> 00:21:52,900 It's lore. 490 00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:54,140 It's folklore. 491 00:21:54,140 --> 00:21:57,220 Yeah, he's basically saying that Kevin wanted to be part of the folklore. 492 00:21:57,220 --> 00:21:59,260 So he disappeared. 493 00:21:59,260 --> 00:22:00,900 Is that a culture? 494 00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:02,060 OK, so I looked into this. 495 00:22:02,060 --> 00:22:04,420 I was like, is there a history of people disappearing 496 00:22:04,420 --> 00:22:08,180 in the electric forest at the Electric Forest Festival? 497 00:22:08,180 --> 00:22:09,380 And no, there's not. 498 00:22:09,380 --> 00:22:12,180 There's been a couple of times where people couldn't 499 00:22:12,180 --> 00:22:16,180 be found after the festival, but they always showed up hitchhiking somewhere. 500 00:22:16,180 --> 00:22:19,740 So in 2018, actually, there was another young man 501 00:22:19,740 --> 00:22:22,980 who was reported missing at the end of the festival. 502 00:22:22,980 --> 00:22:25,540 And he showed up a week later hitchhiking. 503 00:22:25,540 --> 00:22:29,500 So everybody else that has ever quote unquote disappeared 504 00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:33,260 from the electric forest has shown up except for Kevin. 505 00:22:33,260 --> 00:22:37,900 And then Bach also says that Kevin had discussed his intentions 506 00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:40,100 prior to leaving for the festival. 507 00:22:40,100 --> 00:22:45,420 Quote, what money he had, he drained pretty much all of his banks, end quote. 508 00:22:45,420 --> 00:22:50,420 And I think this is referring to the $200 he withdrew from the ATM. 509 00:22:50,420 --> 00:22:58,020 But nobody else, at least it's reported, is saying that Kevin wanted to disappear. 510 00:22:58,020 --> 00:23:00,700 And this was going to be his goal. 511 00:23:00,700 --> 00:23:06,300 And again, his family says it's very strange that he would not reach out to them. 512 00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:08,740 And at this point, this is all in 2018. 513 00:23:08,740 --> 00:23:10,140 We're in the year of 2022. 514 00:23:10,140 --> 00:23:11,060 He's still missing. 515 00:23:11,060 --> 00:23:13,500 And there has still been no signs of him. 516 00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:19,220 So it's pretty hard to disappear like that. 517 00:23:19,220 --> 00:23:24,460 So January of 2019, the family begins calling Kayla his ex-girlfriend. 518 00:23:24,460 --> 00:23:28,420 So this is like a change in the way that the family is speaking about her. 519 00:23:28,420 --> 00:23:34,260 In March of 2019, police say that Kayla willingly submitted to a polygraph test 520 00:23:34,260 --> 00:23:35,820 and passes. 521 00:23:35,820 --> 00:23:39,140 Yeah, polygraphs are inadmissible. 522 00:23:39,140 --> 00:23:42,820 Yeah, they just tell you if you're stressed out during questioning. 523 00:23:42,820 --> 00:23:46,900 They're just an investigation tool, but they don't actually determine if you're 524 00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:48,900 lying or not. 525 00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:54,100 So June 28 of 2019, this is coming up on a year of him missing. 526 00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:56,780 The Electric Forest Festival returns. 527 00:23:56,780 --> 00:24:00,820 And Kevin's family begin this tradition of going to the festival 528 00:24:00,820 --> 00:24:03,020 and passing out flyers. 529 00:24:03,020 --> 00:24:06,660 In 2019, the family still believe that Kevin's alive, 530 00:24:06,660 --> 00:24:09,260 despite having no contact with him. 531 00:24:09,260 --> 00:24:12,780 And Gary Graves says, quote, I know my son's a survivor. 532 00:24:12,780 --> 00:24:15,340 I just can't believe anybody could overtake him. 533 00:24:15,340 --> 00:24:17,020 He's a very strong guy. 534 00:24:17,020 --> 00:24:19,540 He's tall and lanky, but he's strong as a bull. 535 00:24:19,540 --> 00:24:20,700 I've seen him in action. 536 00:24:20,700 --> 00:24:21,740 I know how he is. 537 00:24:21,740 --> 00:24:24,300 He's not a weakling, end quote. 538 00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:26,140 And then Kevin's mom, she had been kind of. 539 00:24:26,140 --> 00:24:27,940 Was he in the Marines? 540 00:24:27,940 --> 00:24:30,500 So Kevin actually did not serve in the Marines. 541 00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:31,940 His dad served in the Marines. 542 00:24:31,940 --> 00:24:35,700 So he got the tattoo in honor of his dad. 543 00:24:35,700 --> 00:24:36,380 Gotcha. 544 00:24:36,380 --> 00:24:38,580 But it was actually kind of funny. 545 00:24:38,580 --> 00:24:41,740 In an article I was reading with his dad, his dad was like, 546 00:24:41,740 --> 00:24:42,980 I told him not to get it. 547 00:24:42,980 --> 00:24:46,020 He didn't deserve to wear that tattoo. 548 00:24:46,020 --> 00:24:49,060 But he was 16 or 17 and just wanted to get something. 549 00:24:49,060 --> 00:24:49,980 Oh, OK. 550 00:24:49,980 --> 00:24:54,780 So yeah, not a Marine, but his dad was. 551 00:24:54,780 --> 00:24:58,140 And then Kevin's mom, she has been kind of quiet in the media 552 00:24:58,140 --> 00:24:59,820 up until around the one year mark. 553 00:24:59,820 --> 00:25:03,700 But she says, quote, we have good days and we have bad days. 554 00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:05,660 And as a mother, I don't know what to do. 555 00:25:05,660 --> 00:25:07,100 I just want to know he's OK. 556 00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:09,860 I just want a hug from him, end quote. 557 00:25:09,860 --> 00:25:11,100 You OK? 558 00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:15,100 Yeah, it's just like when someone you love, 559 00:25:15,100 --> 00:25:18,620 when something is wrong with someone you love, 560 00:25:18,620 --> 00:25:21,740 like what you usually want and need from people 561 00:25:21,740 --> 00:25:25,900 is much more transactional when they're doing well, you know? 562 00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:28,940 And then when it's not going well, 563 00:25:28,940 --> 00:25:32,700 you just want the simplest thing from that person. 564 00:25:32,700 --> 00:25:34,940 And what's really interesting to me about human beings 565 00:25:34,940 --> 00:25:40,300 is you want the simplest things when they're the furthest away. 566 00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:44,340 June 30, 2019, the Shiawassee Search and Rescue, 567 00:25:44,340 --> 00:25:48,860 they search Whitehall, Michigan, after three eyewitnesses 568 00:25:48,860 --> 00:25:50,460 claim they saw Kevin. 569 00:25:50,460 --> 00:25:53,180 And then this is a member of the Shiawassee Search and Rescue 570 00:25:53,180 --> 00:25:54,020 talking here. 571 00:25:54,020 --> 00:25:57,620 They say, quote, the only conclusion I can come to 572 00:25:57,620 --> 00:26:00,140 is that Kevin Graves is alive and does not 573 00:26:00,140 --> 00:26:03,860 wish to be discovered at this time, end quote. 574 00:26:03,860 --> 00:26:09,180 Again, no real evidence, except some eyewitnesses 575 00:26:09,180 --> 00:26:14,260 saying that they think they saw him in Whitehall. 576 00:26:14,260 --> 00:26:18,260 In February of 2020, so heading into the pandemic 577 00:26:18,260 --> 00:26:21,820 at this point, February of 2020, the family 578 00:26:21,820 --> 00:26:23,660 continues to run down leads. 579 00:26:23,660 --> 00:26:27,780 And they check homeless camps in search of Kevin, 580 00:26:27,780 --> 00:26:30,060 but never see any signs of him. 581 00:26:30,060 --> 00:26:35,740 So June of 2020 and 2021, the electric forest 582 00:26:35,740 --> 00:26:37,260 is canceled due to COVID. 583 00:26:37,260 --> 00:26:40,020 So no festival happens for those two years. 584 00:26:40,020 --> 00:26:44,580 In September of 2020, the family searched Double JJ again, 585 00:26:44,580 --> 00:26:46,700 but nothing turns up. 586 00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:48,300 You don't have to say Double JJ. 587 00:26:48,300 --> 00:26:50,180 You can just say Double J. 588 00:26:50,180 --> 00:26:52,100 Well, it's always written Double JJ. 589 00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:54,860 And when I went on the website, it says Double JJ. 590 00:26:54,860 --> 00:26:57,140 Yeah, I think people call it, from what I remember, 591 00:26:57,140 --> 00:26:59,420 it's like JJ's ranch or the Double J. 592 00:26:59,420 --> 00:26:59,940 The Double J. 593 00:26:59,940 --> 00:27:02,100 It's like those two, but it's never. 594 00:27:02,100 --> 00:27:04,220 Double JJ. 595 00:27:04,220 --> 00:27:05,100 Because then that's quad. 596 00:27:05,100 --> 00:27:06,180 That's quad. 597 00:27:06,180 --> 00:27:07,740 Well, that's what I thought. 598 00:27:07,740 --> 00:27:09,540 I thought that was funny. 599 00:27:09,540 --> 00:27:10,740 Double JJ. 600 00:27:10,740 --> 00:27:14,100 It's like you already have JJ. 601 00:27:14,100 --> 00:27:15,300 The times two. 602 00:27:15,300 --> 00:27:17,820 Yeah, I'm like, are there two JJ's in the family? 603 00:27:17,820 --> 00:27:18,860 Are there four J? 604 00:27:18,860 --> 00:27:21,060 What's happening? 605 00:27:21,060 --> 00:27:24,500 So November of 2020, the family posts on Facebook. 606 00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:26,540 They have a very active Facebook page called 607 00:27:26,540 --> 00:27:29,260 Help Us Find Kevin Graves. 608 00:27:29,260 --> 00:27:30,940 You can search it and follow it. 609 00:27:30,940 --> 00:27:31,780 It's all there. 610 00:27:31,780 --> 00:27:34,220 But the family posts an update that Kayla 611 00:27:34,220 --> 00:27:37,340 continues to block the family and has not 612 00:27:37,340 --> 00:27:39,340 provided any of her phone records. 613 00:27:39,340 --> 00:27:43,140 So at a time, there was a request for Kayla 614 00:27:43,140 --> 00:27:47,140 to give her phone records to try to track where Kevin was 615 00:27:47,140 --> 00:27:50,580 or just to see what was happening, I guess. 616 00:27:50,580 --> 00:27:52,140 But the family requested this. 617 00:27:52,140 --> 00:27:53,540 The police didn't. 618 00:27:53,540 --> 00:27:55,540 The police have never treated this 619 00:27:55,540 --> 00:27:57,580 like a criminal investigation, I should say that. 620 00:27:57,580 --> 00:28:01,780 It's only ever been a missing person case. 621 00:28:01,780 --> 00:28:03,820 And again, it's not illegal for an adult 622 00:28:03,820 --> 00:28:04,460 to go missing. 623 00:28:04,460 --> 00:28:06,580 That's not a crime. 624 00:28:06,580 --> 00:28:10,940 So there is no warrant or forcefulness 625 00:28:10,940 --> 00:28:12,980 to get these phone records from Kayla. 626 00:28:12,980 --> 00:28:13,740 Kayla does not. 627 00:28:13,740 --> 00:28:15,740 I think you would want to clear your name, though. 628 00:28:15,740 --> 00:28:18,140 Maybe she's got something else going on 629 00:28:18,140 --> 00:28:19,820 that she doesn't want the cops to find out about. 630 00:28:19,820 --> 00:28:20,940 Maybe, yeah. 631 00:28:20,940 --> 00:28:23,540 Because that makes sense to me. 632 00:28:23,540 --> 00:28:26,340 It doesn't immediately ring guilty to me. 633 00:28:26,340 --> 00:28:29,340 It rings like, oh, maybe she's like, 634 00:28:29,340 --> 00:28:31,700 what if she's selling weed or something? 635 00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:32,340 I don't know. 636 00:28:32,340 --> 00:28:32,820 Yeah. 637 00:28:32,820 --> 00:28:35,900 Something that you don't want cops to know. 638 00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:37,860 Or just people like their privacy. 639 00:28:37,860 --> 00:28:40,740 I can not necessarily devil's advocate, 640 00:28:40,740 --> 00:28:44,340 but I can see that there's lots of possibilities. 641 00:28:44,340 --> 00:28:46,660 It's very gray around the ex-girlfriend. 642 00:28:46,660 --> 00:28:48,620 It's very gray. 643 00:28:48,620 --> 00:28:51,620 And the family says, quote, as a family, 644 00:28:51,620 --> 00:28:54,420 we are certain she knows much more than she ever let on. 645 00:28:54,420 --> 00:28:56,700 But we have no way of proving that, end quote. 646 00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:59,800 So again, people have a lot of feelings in this case, 647 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,060 but there's not a lot of facts. 648 00:29:02,060 --> 00:29:03,940 People have a lot of feelings, which I get. 649 00:29:03,940 --> 00:29:04,800 Somebody is missing. 650 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,760 But we just don't have anything. 651 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:07,820 We don't know where he is. 652 00:29:07,820 --> 00:29:09,300 There's no sign of him. 653 00:29:09,300 --> 00:29:13,380 So June 24 of 2022, the Electric Forest returns. 654 00:29:13,380 --> 00:29:14,740 The festival returns. 655 00:29:14,740 --> 00:29:16,420 Same place. 656 00:29:16,420 --> 00:29:19,820 Sherwood Forest of Double JJ. 657 00:29:19,820 --> 00:29:20,620 JJ Ranch. 658 00:29:20,620 --> 00:29:21,420 Triple. 659 00:29:21,420 --> 00:29:22,180 Triple J. 660 00:29:22,180 --> 00:29:26,780 The Double J. The family heads to the festival 661 00:29:26,780 --> 00:29:28,860 to hand out missing person flyers again. 662 00:29:28,860 --> 00:29:31,820 So this would be their second time doing it officially 663 00:29:31,820 --> 00:29:33,580 since he's gone missing. 664 00:29:33,580 --> 00:29:36,600 But the Electric Forest will ask them to leave because they 665 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,660 don't want bad PR. 666 00:29:38,660 --> 00:29:40,540 So they get kicked off at the festival grounds. 667 00:29:40,540 --> 00:29:41,620 What fucking chumps? 668 00:29:41,620 --> 00:29:42,420 Chump stuff. 669 00:29:42,420 --> 00:29:43,980 That's chump stuff, man. 670 00:29:43,980 --> 00:29:45,300 That ain't right. 671 00:29:45,300 --> 00:29:46,860 That ain't right. 672 00:29:46,860 --> 00:29:48,180 That's just mean. 673 00:29:48,180 --> 00:29:49,620 Yeah, it's mean. 674 00:29:49,620 --> 00:29:50,620 I'm like, and it's. 675 00:29:50,620 --> 00:29:53,500 You're not going to use your power and publicity to, again, 676 00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:56,260 try to help find this person that's still missing, 677 00:29:56,260 --> 00:29:58,460 that's missing, who is technically 678 00:29:58,460 --> 00:30:01,660 in part under your care a little bit. 679 00:30:01,660 --> 00:30:02,860 Like, I know you. 680 00:30:02,860 --> 00:30:05,420 I know when you're running a campground or whatever, 681 00:30:05,420 --> 00:30:07,500 it's not your fault. But that's going 682 00:30:07,500 --> 00:30:11,060 to look bad for you forever either way. 683 00:30:11,060 --> 00:30:14,300 Yeah, and from everything that I could find, 684 00:30:14,300 --> 00:30:17,380 I was looking at the Electric Forest Reddit and stuff. 685 00:30:17,380 --> 00:30:19,620 And people were talking about seeing the family there. 686 00:30:19,620 --> 00:30:21,020 And I got a poster. 687 00:30:21,020 --> 00:30:23,940 And the family wasn't doing it. 688 00:30:23,940 --> 00:30:24,540 They were just like. 689 00:30:24,540 --> 00:30:26,580 They were grabbing people by their shirts like, 690 00:30:26,580 --> 00:30:28,660 you should leave. 691 00:30:28,660 --> 00:30:30,460 They were like, we are sad. 692 00:30:30,460 --> 00:30:31,900 Passing out posters and it's like, 693 00:30:31,900 --> 00:30:35,180 if you were here in 2018, please look at your pictures. 694 00:30:35,180 --> 00:30:40,060 So as of 2022, Kevin's mom still believe that he's alive. 695 00:30:40,060 --> 00:30:42,180 She still hangs on to this belief. 696 00:30:42,180 --> 00:30:45,140 Kevin's dad, however, says, quote, myself, 697 00:30:45,140 --> 00:30:48,220 I feel he's somewhere out there in that forest, somewhere. 698 00:30:48,220 --> 00:30:51,020 I think he's buried, end quote. 699 00:30:51,020 --> 00:30:51,820 Damn. 700 00:30:51,820 --> 00:30:53,220 Yeah. 701 00:30:53,220 --> 00:30:56,940 But that's truly all the information we have on Kevin. 702 00:30:56,940 --> 00:30:58,660 And it's really not a lot. 703 00:30:58,660 --> 00:30:59,580 How do you feel? 704 00:30:59,580 --> 00:31:03,820 So I have a couple of thoughts on this. 705 00:31:03,820 --> 00:31:09,740 I think, and again, there's no evidence of this. 706 00:31:09,740 --> 00:31:10,860 There's no evidence of this. 707 00:31:10,860 --> 00:31:11,620 Again, feelings. 708 00:31:11,620 --> 00:31:14,500 Again, this is just a feeling that I have. 709 00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:17,420 Like, you know, with him withdrawing $200, 710 00:31:17,420 --> 00:31:20,580 I'm like, maybe he went to go buy some drugs. 711 00:31:20,580 --> 00:31:24,220 Got in a fight, wants to take an edge off, 712 00:31:24,220 --> 00:31:25,200 goes to buy some drugs. 713 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,100 And that seems pretty typical at this festival. 714 00:31:28,100 --> 00:31:30,140 There's a lot of drugs happening. 715 00:31:30,140 --> 00:31:34,940 I just wonder if when he's pulling out this money, 716 00:31:34,940 --> 00:31:38,700 if he were to get drugs, like if they were to go bad 717 00:31:38,700 --> 00:31:43,220 or if he were to do too much at somebody's campsite, 718 00:31:43,220 --> 00:31:45,300 there's a freak out. 719 00:31:45,300 --> 00:31:47,020 And they just stump his body or something. 720 00:31:47,020 --> 00:31:47,620 Yeah. 721 00:31:47,620 --> 00:31:51,500 And interestingly, on the family's Facebook page, 722 00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:54,740 one of the first posts is a news story 723 00:31:54,740 --> 00:31:59,260 that's just about all the trash that's left at the campsite. 724 00:31:59,260 --> 00:32:03,700 And it's just like not a bulldozer, 725 00:32:03,700 --> 00:32:07,300 but like a scoop truck, you know what I mean? 726 00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:07,800 Yeah. 727 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,700 Like maybe like a bulldozer. 728 00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:10,980 Like a dump truck? 729 00:32:10,980 --> 00:32:12,260 Not a dump truck, exactly. 730 00:32:12,260 --> 00:32:15,340 But it's like a construction scooper guy. 731 00:32:15,340 --> 00:32:18,180 Kind of looks like a whatever. 732 00:32:18,180 --> 00:32:22,380 But it's just like a construction vehicle picking up 733 00:32:22,380 --> 00:32:24,780 tons of garbage and throwing it away. 734 00:32:24,780 --> 00:32:26,860 So it's like, this isn't being done by hand. 735 00:32:26,860 --> 00:32:30,060 Like, who knows what could be in those things? 736 00:32:30,060 --> 00:32:31,940 Or if there was a body in there. 737 00:32:31,940 --> 00:32:32,820 Yeah. 738 00:32:32,820 --> 00:32:33,460 Is that what you were saying? 739 00:32:33,460 --> 00:32:35,260 That's kind of what I'm implying is that. 740 00:32:35,260 --> 00:32:36,220 Oh, god. 741 00:32:36,220 --> 00:32:37,220 You let me come to that. 742 00:32:37,220 --> 00:32:39,580 Oh, my own conclusion. 743 00:32:39,580 --> 00:32:43,260 I wish you would have said something sooner. 744 00:32:43,260 --> 00:32:46,980 Because I just think that the family searched. 745 00:32:46,980 --> 00:32:48,340 They had the search and rescue. 746 00:32:48,340 --> 00:32:51,580 So like if he was buried, I would imagine 747 00:32:51,580 --> 00:32:55,140 that they would have instructed to be on the lookout. 748 00:32:55,140 --> 00:32:57,620 And searchers would be like, hey, there's 749 00:32:57,620 --> 00:33:03,380 this disturbed dirt over here that's a little suspicious. 750 00:33:03,380 --> 00:33:07,820 I will also say, as someone who has an anxiety disorder 751 00:33:07,820 --> 00:33:12,420 and a depressive disorder, and being on and off medication 752 00:33:12,420 --> 00:33:18,180 in my lifetime, when I wasn't taking medication 753 00:33:18,180 --> 00:33:26,060 for what I just said, and would partake in marijuana usage, 754 00:33:26,060 --> 00:33:33,620 I really wasn't myself when I was doing that. 755 00:33:33,620 --> 00:33:36,460 I was much more angry, panicked. 756 00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:44,620 It will bring out, it will exacerbate some behaviors that 757 00:33:44,620 --> 00:33:49,980 are quite frankly, very unsafe to experience. 758 00:33:49,980 --> 00:33:51,420 Does that make sense? 759 00:33:51,420 --> 00:33:53,900 So even if he had had a little bit of something, 760 00:33:53,900 --> 00:33:56,940 was off his meds, had just gotten in a fight, 761 00:33:56,940 --> 00:34:00,820 that's the perfect storm to create someone who is no longer 762 00:34:00,820 --> 00:34:02,660 themselves for a moment in time. 763 00:34:02,660 --> 00:34:03,300 Yeah. 764 00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:06,340 And that's also, I imagine you're camping out. 765 00:34:06,340 --> 00:34:09,460 You're probably not sleeping that great at this festival. 766 00:34:09,460 --> 00:34:12,620 So you're probably exhausted. 767 00:34:12,620 --> 00:34:16,980 You're probably a little dehydrated at best. 768 00:34:16,980 --> 00:34:21,900 After a four day music festival, exhaustion and dehydration 769 00:34:21,900 --> 00:34:23,340 are probably pretty common. 770 00:34:23,340 --> 00:34:25,340 But those can really fuck with you, 771 00:34:25,340 --> 00:34:26,740 and fuck with you mentally. 772 00:34:26,740 --> 00:34:30,860 And just like those two things without each individual unique 773 00:34:30,860 --> 00:34:32,700 person and how it would affect them. 774 00:34:32,700 --> 00:34:33,620 Their chemistry is. 775 00:34:33,620 --> 00:34:34,740 Yeah. 776 00:34:34,740 --> 00:34:38,220 Just dehydration and hunger and tiredness alone. 777 00:34:38,220 --> 00:34:41,140 We've seen what it has done to us, 778 00:34:41,140 --> 00:34:44,380 a few hours at a mall and we're too hungry and we're like, ah. 779 00:34:44,380 --> 00:34:45,620 Yes. 780 00:34:45,620 --> 00:34:52,100 And then you possibly mix in drugs with that. 781 00:34:52,100 --> 00:34:55,660 Your body can react horrible. 782 00:34:55,660 --> 00:35:00,420 And so there doesn't seem to be any evidence 783 00:35:00,420 --> 00:35:03,540 that Kevin hurt himself. 784 00:35:06,140 --> 00:35:09,260 They weren't able to find that. 785 00:35:09,260 --> 00:35:13,140 There are a couple of thoughts that he disappeared willingly 786 00:35:13,140 --> 00:35:14,540 and is living off the grid. 787 00:35:14,540 --> 00:35:19,260 But again, that is so unlike him and so out of norm 788 00:35:19,260 --> 00:35:22,620 for him not to be communicating with his family like that. 789 00:35:22,620 --> 00:35:26,980 Especially after four years of him missing. 790 00:35:26,980 --> 00:35:29,540 To not have a single sign, a single text, 791 00:35:29,540 --> 00:35:34,620 and the throws of COVID to not reach out to your family. 792 00:35:34,620 --> 00:35:35,540 Not impossible. 793 00:35:35,540 --> 00:35:38,580 He could be alive and out there living off the grid 794 00:35:38,580 --> 00:35:41,540 and just hurting his family in this way. 795 00:35:41,540 --> 00:35:42,860 Yeah, not impossible. 796 00:35:42,860 --> 00:35:44,300 Not impossible. 797 00:35:44,300 --> 00:35:47,500 I also think it possible that he took something 798 00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:50,300 that didn't react well with his body 799 00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:54,180 and instead of people calling 911, 800 00:35:54,180 --> 00:36:00,180 there was a panic and just a want to get rid of it. 801 00:36:00,180 --> 00:36:02,220 Which I think could have happened at that festival, 802 00:36:02,220 --> 00:36:04,580 especially after seeing all those bags of trash 803 00:36:04,580 --> 00:36:07,100 and just how they were scooped up. 804 00:36:07,100 --> 00:36:09,460 And not that you would be checking that, 805 00:36:09,460 --> 00:36:11,700 but if you were doing it by hands, 806 00:36:11,700 --> 00:36:14,300 somebody throwing garbage into a big dumpster. 807 00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:16,900 You're going to notice an arm hanging out somewhere. 808 00:36:16,900 --> 00:36:19,260 Yeah, or you're going to notice one that's super heavy. 809 00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:22,500 Yeah, they said it was 185 pounds and six feet tall. 810 00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:23,540 Yeah, that's a big person. 811 00:36:23,540 --> 00:36:26,060 But if everything's getting scooped up, 812 00:36:26,060 --> 00:36:28,100 it could have been missed. 813 00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:29,900 Which is horrible. 814 00:36:29,900 --> 00:36:32,180 I know, that sounds baby. 815 00:36:32,180 --> 00:36:35,860 Yeah, and I really don't love speculating 816 00:36:35,860 --> 00:36:39,940 on what could have happened to missing people. 817 00:36:39,940 --> 00:36:41,820 I think it's a natural inclination 818 00:36:41,820 --> 00:36:44,260 to want to fill in the blanks, though. 819 00:36:44,260 --> 00:36:48,580 Yeah, and this is just how my mind filled them in. 820 00:36:48,580 --> 00:36:50,980 I hope he is alive out there. 821 00:36:50,980 --> 00:36:56,060 If you know anything about Kevin Graves, what happened to him, 822 00:36:56,060 --> 00:36:59,180 his whereabouts today, or if you think you see him, 823 00:36:59,180 --> 00:37:01,700 we're going to post lots of pictures of him on our Instagram 824 00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:02,700 page. 825 00:37:02,700 --> 00:37:05,980 The family asks, if you think you see him out and about, 826 00:37:05,980 --> 00:37:08,820 to try to take a picture on your phone of him 827 00:37:08,820 --> 00:37:13,020 and send it to the Facebook group, Help Find Kevin Graves. 828 00:37:13,020 --> 00:37:16,220 You can search that on Facebook, and it'll pop right up. 829 00:37:16,220 --> 00:37:19,020 And this just helps the family very quickly eliminate 830 00:37:19,020 --> 00:37:20,580 if it is Kevin or not. 831 00:37:20,580 --> 00:37:21,820 And it's 2022. 832 00:37:21,820 --> 00:37:23,780 We all have a camera in our pocket. 833 00:37:23,780 --> 00:37:26,300 If you know anything, maybe you were at the electric force 834 00:37:26,300 --> 00:37:32,500 that year, or perhaps have lived in off-grid communities. 835 00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:35,900 And have come across Kevin, you are 836 00:37:35,900 --> 00:37:37,780 encouraged to call the Oakland police who 837 00:37:37,780 --> 00:37:44,660 are handling this case at 248-848-4950. 838 00:37:44,660 --> 00:37:46,100 Oakland? 839 00:37:46,100 --> 00:37:47,500 That's over by Detroit. 840 00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:48,900 Is that where he's from? 841 00:37:48,900 --> 00:37:49,900 That's where he lived. 842 00:37:49,900 --> 00:37:52,260 So that is officially understood. 843 00:37:52,260 --> 00:37:56,220 It used to be the state police and Oakland working together, 844 00:37:56,220 --> 00:37:58,940 but it has officially just passed off to Oakland. 845 00:37:58,940 --> 00:38:02,460 I think in 2022, I can find an exact date that this was done. 846 00:38:02,460 --> 00:38:04,460 So there has been a little bit of, 847 00:38:04,460 --> 00:38:05,820 you need to handle this case. 848 00:38:05,820 --> 00:38:07,260 No, you need to handle this case. 849 00:38:07,260 --> 00:38:08,780 No, you handle this case. 850 00:38:08,780 --> 00:38:11,420 So that also doesn't help whenever it's 851 00:38:11,420 --> 00:38:13,340 passing from agency to agency, and nobody's 852 00:38:13,340 --> 00:38:15,620 really digging into it. 853 00:38:15,620 --> 00:38:21,700 The sources for today come from WZZM13, MLive.com, 854 00:38:21,700 --> 00:38:24,940 the Detroit Free Press, Fox 17. 855 00:38:24,940 --> 00:38:27,340 Also known as The Freep. 856 00:38:27,340 --> 00:38:28,700 Is it The Freep? 857 00:38:28,700 --> 00:38:33,700 WXYZDetroit, and DancingAstronaut.com. 858 00:38:33,700 --> 00:38:34,780 That's it. 859 00:38:34,780 --> 00:38:35,740 Wow. 860 00:38:35,740 --> 00:38:37,980 If you are enjoying cold and missing, 861 00:38:37,980 --> 00:38:39,580 please follow us on Instagram. 862 00:38:39,580 --> 00:38:42,980 We post lots of pictures of the cases we follow each week. 863 00:38:42,980 --> 00:38:45,980 From there, in the link in our bio, you can buy us a coffee. 864 00:38:45,980 --> 00:38:48,220 We've had a couple coffees bought for us. 865 00:38:48,220 --> 00:38:50,300 And wow, are we excited about that? 866 00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:52,060 Whoa, Zoe. 867 00:38:52,060 --> 00:38:53,780 Yeah, y'all, we cannot tell you enough 868 00:38:53,780 --> 00:38:57,900 how to watch this grow every single week. 869 00:38:57,900 --> 00:39:00,540 We cannot believe this is happening. 870 00:39:00,540 --> 00:39:04,460 We're very, very surprised and very humbled. 871 00:39:04,460 --> 00:39:06,500 We're so excited to be on this ride. 872 00:39:06,500 --> 00:39:08,220 Yeah. 873 00:39:08,220 --> 00:39:10,460 I love bringing this podcast to you all. 874 00:39:10,460 --> 00:39:13,420 I love researching for it. 875 00:39:13,420 --> 00:39:16,300 People are asking me, oh, have you 876 00:39:16,300 --> 00:39:18,340 seen this about this person? 877 00:39:18,340 --> 00:39:21,020 People are texting me, and they're talking about these people 878 00:39:21,020 --> 00:39:21,660 again. 879 00:39:21,660 --> 00:39:25,060 We're reaching your goal, honey. 880 00:39:25,060 --> 00:39:26,980 I know, yeah. 881 00:39:26,980 --> 00:39:29,540 So if you want to support us, you can buy us a coffee. 882 00:39:29,540 --> 00:39:31,860 That link is in our Instagram bio. 883 00:39:31,860 --> 00:39:34,700 If you have a case that you would like us to follow, 884 00:39:34,700 --> 00:39:37,540 maybe something that's near and dear to your heart, your family, 885 00:39:37,540 --> 00:39:42,500 you can email us at coldandmissingatgmail.com. 886 00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:45,140 And we'll get in touch, and we'll talk about it, 887 00:39:45,140 --> 00:39:46,420 and see what we can do for you. 888 00:39:46,420 --> 00:39:48,740 So yeah, thanks for joining us. 889 00:39:48,740 --> 00:39:50,420 Thanks for being with us. 890 00:39:50,420 --> 00:39:52,180 Subscribe wherever you're listening. 891 00:39:52,180 --> 00:39:53,300 Leave a little review. 892 00:39:53,300 --> 00:39:54,260 Five stars. 893 00:39:54,260 --> 00:39:55,060 Thumbs up. 894 00:39:55,060 --> 00:39:57,900 You know what I'm asking you to do, whatever platform you're at. 895 00:39:57,900 --> 00:40:00,060 Thank you so much for those who have already done it. 896 00:40:00,060 --> 00:40:00,860 I appreciate you. 897 00:40:00,860 --> 00:40:01,820 We appreciate you. 898 00:40:01,820 --> 00:40:03,980 I wish I could come into your room at night 899 00:40:03,980 --> 00:40:07,220 and just sprinkle sweet dream dust into your brain. 900 00:40:07,220 --> 00:40:08,940 You want to be the Sandman? 901 00:40:08,940 --> 00:40:09,500 Yeah. 902 00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:12,140 I'm going to be the Sandman. 903 00:40:12,140 --> 00:40:13,620 You'd be a great Sandman, honey. 904 00:40:13,620 --> 00:40:16,700 Old Sandy Al. 905 00:40:16,700 --> 00:40:19,220 Sanding into your bedroom each night, 906 00:40:19,220 --> 00:40:22,380 leaving grit in your eyes. 907 00:40:22,380 --> 00:40:29,340 Wow, thanks again for listening, and we will see you. 908 00:40:29,340 --> 00:40:32,540 You will hear us next week. 909 00:40:32,540 --> 00:40:34,980 See you next week, and happy Thanksgiving, y'all.