WEBVTT 00:00:08.269 --> 00:00:10.810 The views and opinions expressed in Cold and 00:00:10.810 --> 00:00:13.710 Missing are exclusively those of the hosts. All 00:00:13.710 --> 00:00:16.129 parties mentioned are considered innocent until 00:00:16.129 --> 00:00:18.969 proven guilty in a court of law. Cold and Missing 00:00:18.969 --> 00:00:22.410 also contains adult themes and languages. Listener 00:00:22.410 --> 00:00:26.269 discretion is advised. I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin 00:00:26.269 --> 00:00:29.010 -Sulkowski. And I'm your co -host, Eli Sulkowski. 00:00:29.230 --> 00:00:31.269 And this is Cold and Missing, where we cover 00:00:31.269 --> 00:00:35.479 cold cases and missing person cases. Hello everyone 00:00:35.479 --> 00:00:37.719 and welcome back to Cold and Missing. I'm your 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:40.619 host Ali. And I'm your co -host Eli. Welcome 00:00:40.619 --> 00:00:43.840 back everyone. Just a quick note here at the 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:45.820 top. Thank you so much to everyone who's left 00:00:45.820 --> 00:00:49.399 us reviews, either on Apple Podcasts, in Spotify, 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:52.880 like commenting on the episodes, or on our website, 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:55.899 www .coldandmissing. We've seen so many come 00:00:55.899 --> 00:00:59.179 in this past few weeks, and it's been so helpful. 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:02.340 So thank you so much for giving us those five 00:01:02.340 --> 00:01:05.159 stars. It helps others find these cases, and 00:01:05.159 --> 00:01:08.000 many times we're one of the few podcasts covering 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:10.840 the cases here. So thank you again for doing 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:14.420 that. on behalf of all the cold and missing cases 00:01:14.420 --> 00:01:17.459 we do. Yeah, I will say while I don't go and 00:01:17.459 --> 00:01:21.159 read the comments and reviews, Ali does send 00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:23.900 some of the positive ones my way, especially 00:01:23.900 --> 00:01:26.359 when I'm at work or we've spent a few days apart 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:29.620 because of work. And it's always such a joy to 00:01:29.620 --> 00:01:33.219 hear that the podcast is doing what we want it 00:01:33.219 --> 00:01:36.159 to do and that you all see that as well and that 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:38.599 you're using your own platforms as amplification 00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:41.040 for these cases. So thank you so much again. 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:44.200 So if you have time today, leaving us a review 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:46.659 can really help get these cases out there, but 00:01:46.659 --> 00:01:49.719 we will leave that alone for now and we will 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:53.120 just get right into this week's case. That's 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:55.700 right. We are in a missing person case this week 00:01:55.700 --> 00:02:01.019 and this is episode 145. Let's get into it. Let's 00:02:01.019 --> 00:02:03.819 do it. So just as a bit of a content warning 00:02:03.819 --> 00:02:06.480 at the top, this case does involve a young person 00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:09.080 and there are some brief mentions of sexual assault. 00:02:09.939 --> 00:02:12.560 Today, We are talking about the missing person 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:16.259 case of Danyel Sparpana, and this takes place 00:02:16.259 --> 00:02:20.319 in West Sacramento, California in November of 00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:23.659 1985. But first, a little bit about Danyel. 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:28.599 Danyel is three years old in 1985. She's living 00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:30.719 in West Sacramento, California with her mother, 00:02:30.819 --> 00:02:34.319 Cynthia. They have a cozy and clean home on the 00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:38.139 1900 block of Manzanita Way. a quiet neighborhood 00:02:38.139 --> 00:02:41.860 where everyone knew everybody else. Danyel 00:02:41.860 --> 00:02:45.979 was born on June 23rd of 1982, so she was just 00:02:45.979 --> 00:02:48.379 three years old before she disappeared. Danyel 00:02:48.379 --> 00:02:50.740 was small, about three foot tall and weighing 00:02:50.740 --> 00:02:53.740 around 40 pounds. She had curly blonde hair, 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:56.800 a dimple on her chin, and a birthmark on her 00:02:56.800 --> 00:02:59.580 left knee. Her ears were pierced and she still 00:02:59.580 --> 00:03:02.539 sucked her thumb at this time. But what people 00:03:02.539 --> 00:03:06.439 remember most is how bright she was. Neighbors 00:03:06.439 --> 00:03:08.680 said Danyel could carry on a full conversation 00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:12.039 with anyone who stopped by. If you passed their 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:14.740 home, she might tell you about her swing or a 00:03:14.740 --> 00:03:17.460 new toy she was proud of, or she might ask you 00:03:17.460 --> 00:03:19.280 where you'd been and where you were going next. 00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:22.900 Even at three years old, she was described as 00:03:22.900 --> 00:03:26.379 curious, articulate, and full of life. Her mother 00:03:26.379 --> 00:03:29.659 is 27 -year -old Cynthia Sparpana. She was a 00:03:29.659 --> 00:03:32.039 stay -at -home mom. She was receiving social 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:34.620 security due to back problems, but she was known 00:03:34.620 --> 00:03:36.879 in her neighborhood for keeping a tidy, cheerful 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:40.199 home. Inside of their house were signs of love 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:43.520 and care. Cynthia had supplies laid out to make 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:45.439 their own Christmas ornaments for the upcoming 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:49.419 holiday season. And now, a timeline of events. 00:03:50.939 --> 00:03:56.159 Thursday, October 31st, 1985. That year, Halloween 00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:59.539 fell on a Thursday. It was also Cynthia's birthday, 00:03:59.659 --> 00:04:01.860 and she decided to celebrate with friends and 00:04:01.860 --> 00:04:04.560 neighbors a combined Halloween and birthday party 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:07.620 at her home. People remembered laughter and music. 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:10.819 For many of them, that evening would be the last 00:04:10.819 --> 00:04:13.879 time they ever saw Cynthia alive. The following 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:17.079 night, so this is Friday, November 1st, Cynthia 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:19.439 spoke on the phone with her friend Sylvia around 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:23.220 9 p .m. The two chatted casually until Cynthia 00:04:23.220 --> 00:04:25.759 said she needed to go, but she promised to call 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:29.040 Sylvia back later that night. However, Cynthia 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:32.339 never calls. The next day, Saturday, November 00:04:32.339 --> 00:04:35.579 2nd, Sylvia tried calling on Saturday morning 00:04:35.579 --> 00:04:39.000 and then later again that evening, but Cynthia 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:42.519 still didn't answer any of the calls. She tried 00:04:42.519 --> 00:04:44.699 several more times throughout the weekend, but 00:04:44.699 --> 00:04:52.689 the phone just rang and rang. Tim, reported seeing 00:04:52.689 --> 00:04:55.949 little Danyel playing in the front yard. He 00:04:55.949 --> 00:04:59.269 told police he had, quote, no doubt that it was 00:04:59.269 --> 00:05:02.810 her. Quote, she was playing with a ball and I 00:05:02.810 --> 00:05:05.129 waved at her. There's no doubt in my mind it 00:05:05.129 --> 00:05:09.589 was her. However, during this period, no one 00:05:09.589 --> 00:05:12.790 is able to get a hold of Cynthia. Her friends 00:05:12.790 --> 00:05:14.949 are calling, her family is calling, and still 00:05:14.949 --> 00:05:19.009 the calls go unanswered. Again on Monday, November 00:05:19.009 --> 00:05:21.839 4th, Another neighbor reported seeing Danyel. 00:05:22.540 --> 00:05:25.279 Neighbor Marie, who lived about 10 houses away, 00:05:25.399 --> 00:05:28.500 said, Danyel was standing in front of her house 00:05:28.500 --> 00:05:31.620 when I drove by about 3 p .m. on Monday. I believe 00:05:31.620 --> 00:05:35.120 it was her. So even though Cynthia wasn't answering 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:37.540 her phone, several neighbors were certain they 00:05:37.540 --> 00:05:40.459 saw Danyel outside and alive over the weekend 00:05:40.459 --> 00:05:43.600 and into that Monday afternoon. On Tuesday, November 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:48.029 5th, Cynthia's father, Dennis Winger, Hadn't 00:05:48.029 --> 00:05:51.209 heard from his daughter in several days. Concerned, 00:05:51.209 --> 00:05:53.370 he went to her house to check on her and his 00:05:53.370 --> 00:05:56.430 granddaughter. When he arrived, he saw that the 00:05:56.430 --> 00:05:59.410 front door was open. He called out for Cynthia 00:05:59.410 --> 00:06:02.430 and Danyel, but there was no answer. Dennis 00:06:02.430 --> 00:06:04.350 walked through each of the rooms calling for 00:06:04.350 --> 00:06:07.550 Cynthia and Danyel. The home was still clean. 00:06:07.870 --> 00:06:11.810 Nothing was really out of place. However, when 00:06:11.810 --> 00:06:14.250 Dennis enters the back bedroom, his daughter's 00:06:14.250 --> 00:06:17.769 bedroom, he finds Cynthia Sparpana. laying face 00:06:17.769 --> 00:06:21.569 up in her bed, covered with a comforter. The 00:06:21.569 --> 00:06:24.769 bed was soaked with blood. She had been dead 00:06:24.769 --> 00:06:28.629 for at least two days. Dennis called police immediately. 00:06:29.490 --> 00:06:32.069 When investigators arrived, they confirmed that 00:06:32.069 --> 00:06:34.829 Cynthia had been deceased for some time, likely 00:06:34.829 --> 00:06:37.550 since the weekend. Because of her decomposition, 00:06:38.110 --> 00:06:39.889 they couldn't determine the cause of death at 00:06:39.889 --> 00:06:42.589 the scene. But one thing was immediately clear. 00:06:43.009 --> 00:06:46.029 Danyel was missing. Police began canvassing 00:06:46.029 --> 00:06:47.670 the neighborhood and talking with residents. 00:06:48.290 --> 00:06:50.430 That's when they hear the stories of Danyel 00:06:50.430 --> 00:06:53.529 being seen outside of her house, the one from 00:06:53.529 --> 00:06:56.250 Marie and Tim. Others said that the last time 00:06:56.250 --> 00:06:58.509 they had seen little Danyel was on Halloween 00:06:58.509 --> 00:07:01.350 night when she was trick -or -treating. As search 00:07:01.350 --> 00:07:05.250 efforts ramped up, one possibility emerged. Based 00:07:05.250 --> 00:07:08.170 on what neighbors reported, police believe that 00:07:08.170 --> 00:07:12.019 it could be possible that Danyel could have 00:07:12.019 --> 00:07:14.819 been alive in the home for two, maybe even three 00:07:14.819 --> 00:07:18.079 days after her mother's death. A sheriff's spokesperson 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:21.240 says, quote, It's bizarre, but the possibility 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:23.860 exists that the little girl lived in the house 00:07:23.860 --> 00:07:26.420 while her mother was dead. She was a bright little 00:07:26.420 --> 00:07:29.600 girl, able to feed herself. You can speculate 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:32.139 a million ways. Maybe she went into shock and 00:07:32.139 --> 00:07:34.360 didn't realize her mother was dead. Or maybe 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:38.079 she got tired of waiting and walked away. Police 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:40.180 were hopeful due to these sightings of Danyel. 00:07:40.939 --> 00:07:43.259 If neighbors had really seen her on Sunday and 00:07:43.259 --> 00:07:45.279 Monday, there was a chance she was still alive. 00:07:46.019 --> 00:07:48.100 They searched the home for fingerprints looking 00:07:48.100 --> 00:07:51.399 for any sign of who might have been there. And 00:07:51.399 --> 00:07:53.939 then they began an intensive ground search for 00:07:53.939 --> 00:07:57.139 Danyel. Scent dogs are brought in and helicopters 00:07:57.139 --> 00:08:00.019 are launched. The search continues throughout 00:08:00.019 --> 00:08:02.500 that night, ending around 1 a .m. on Wednesday. 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:06.120 During their canvassing, they talk to more neighbors. 00:08:06.829 --> 00:08:09.310 Another neighbor reported hearing strange noises 00:08:09.310 --> 00:08:11.730 in the days before Cynthia's body was found. 00:08:12.430 --> 00:08:16.589 They heard barking dogs, gunshots, and the sound 00:08:16.589 --> 00:08:19.389 of a diesel truck idling outside of Cynthia's 00:08:19.389 --> 00:08:23.550 home. One woman said she saw a white man resembling 00:08:23.550 --> 00:08:26.490 Cynthia's ex -husband taking Danyel out of 00:08:26.490 --> 00:08:29.750 the home on Friday night. Cynthia's ex -husband, 00:08:29.810 --> 00:08:32.750 Ted, was a truck driver, and he also had a twin 00:08:32.750 --> 00:08:35.440 brother. But when police tracked down her ex 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:38.259 -husband in Michigan, they ruled him out as a 00:08:38.259 --> 00:08:40.840 suspect. Police say that he had been staying 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:42.899 with his parents at the time of Cynthia's death 00:08:42.899 --> 00:08:46.799 and his parents confirmed his alibi. Cynthia's 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:50.620 body is also sent for autopsy. The autopsy revealed 00:08:50.620 --> 00:08:53.460 that Cynthia had been beaten with a blunt object, 00:08:53.820 --> 00:08:56.419 strangled, and shot in the back of the head with 00:08:56.419 --> 00:09:00.299 a small caliber weapon. Investigators estimated 00:09:00.299 --> 00:09:03.080 she'd been dead for two to three days before 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:06.080 she was found. During the search of the home, 00:09:06.259 --> 00:09:08.740 police discovered that Cynthia's .22 caliber 00:09:08.740 --> 00:09:11.700 gun, which she had recently purchased for protection, 00:09:12.139 --> 00:09:15.259 was missing. Cynthia had been sexually assaulted 00:09:15.259 --> 00:09:17.700 in the past, and she bought a gun for protection 00:09:17.700 --> 00:09:21.580 in her home. In the days after Danyel was discovered 00:09:21.580 --> 00:09:25.620 missing, November 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, and on, 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:29.159 Police searched through gullies, the entire neighborhood, 00:09:29.460 --> 00:09:33.019 and open land. Volunteers also joined in the 00:09:33.019 --> 00:09:35.600 search effort, but no trace of Danyel was found 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.279 during that time. Police also discovered that 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:42.279 her light blue nylon coat with white fur trim 00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:44.860 was missing from the home, along with the mother's 00:09:44.860 --> 00:09:48.399 gun. By late November, weeks after Danyel’s 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:51.080 disappearance, police begin to question whether 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:53.200 neighbors might have been mistaken about seeing 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:56.809 Danyel after the murder. But officially, they 00:09:56.809 --> 00:09:59.370 continued to treat her as a missing child, hopeful 00:09:59.370 --> 00:10:03.409 she might still be alive. In December of 1985, 00:10:04.049 --> 00:10:07.549 a man named Lionel Ernest Tholmer emerged as 00:10:07.549 --> 00:10:10.649 a possible person of interest. Police believe 00:10:10.649 --> 00:10:12.809 that Tholmer and Cynthia were acquaintances, 00:10:13.110 --> 00:10:16.009 but stressed that Tholmer was, quote, just another 00:10:16.009 --> 00:10:19.750 person we want to talk to. On December 12th, 00:10:19.750 --> 00:10:22.470 tholmer was arrested in connection to another 00:10:22.470 --> 00:10:25.750 murder. the killing of his ex -father -in -law, 00:10:25.970 --> 00:10:29.230 John Meadows. The Meadows murder happened two 00:10:29.230 --> 00:10:32.549 days after Cynthia's body was found. While in 00:10:32.549 --> 00:10:35.269 custody, Thulmer initially refused to speak with 00:10:35.269 --> 00:10:38.269 investigators about Cynthia and Danyel, but 00:10:38.269 --> 00:10:41.289 just a week later, he allegedly confessed to 00:10:41.289 --> 00:10:44.429 a detective. He told detectives that John Meadows 00:10:44.429 --> 00:10:47.350 had been a child molester and that he had killed 00:10:47.350 --> 00:10:50.690 Cynthia and kidnapped Danyel. He claimed to 00:10:50.690 --> 00:10:52.529 have traded the little girl to meth dealers. 00:10:53.580 --> 00:10:56.440 Police said that Thalmar later recanted this 00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:58.679 confession, claiming that he had been coerced. 00:10:59.899 --> 00:11:03.059 When questioned again, Thalmar said Meadows had 00:11:03.059 --> 00:11:06.539 lured him to a remote area to kill him, and then 00:11:06.539 --> 00:11:10.240 he shot Meadows in self -defense. After these 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:12.620 initial interviews with police, Thalmar kind 00:11:12.620 --> 00:11:16.460 of falls out of media in regards to Cynthia and 00:11:16.460 --> 00:11:18.440 Danyel’s case, but he will come back around 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:22.059 again, so I needed to mention him here. Police 00:11:22.059 --> 00:11:24.440 continued to search all over for Danyel, but 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:27.519 found no trace of her. Over time, reports and 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:30.860 timelines shifted in the media. Some newspapers 00:11:30.860 --> 00:11:33.419 began listing Danyel’s disappearance date as 00:11:33.419 --> 00:11:36.059 November 2nd, putting her disappearance when 00:11:36.059 --> 00:11:38.879 her mother was murdered, while others still listed 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:41.980 as November 5th, the day that her mother was 00:11:41.980 --> 00:11:46.100 discovered. In 1986, so this is about a year 00:11:46.100 --> 00:11:49.740 after the murders, Danyel’s photo appears in 00:11:49.740 --> 00:11:52.360 national missing children campaigns, even on 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:56.059 milk cartons. The FBI also joined in the search, 00:11:56.220 --> 00:11:58.500 and there were reported sightings of Danyel 00:11:58.500 --> 00:12:00.860 across the country, but none of these ended up 00:12:00.860 --> 00:12:03.580 panning out. Months began to turn into years. 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:07.720 In 1988, investigators determined that Cynthia's 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:10.759 killer had been left -handed, based on blood 00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:13.700 wound patterns at the crime scene. But this is 00:12:13.700 --> 00:12:16.179 really the only new clue they have in the case. 00:12:16.970 --> 00:12:20.649 Then in November of 1989, so this is four years 00:12:20.649 --> 00:12:22.830 after the murder and when Danyel went missing, 00:12:23.350 --> 00:12:26.009 rumors surfaced that prosecutors were preparing 00:12:26.009 --> 00:12:29.250 to charge Lionel Tholmer with the murder of Cynthia 00:12:29.250 --> 00:12:32.690 Sparpana and the kidnapping and murder of Danyel. 00:12:33.769 --> 00:12:36.610 Eventually, THolmer is charged with both of their 00:12:36.610 --> 00:12:41.149 murders, and three years later, in 1992, he was 00:12:41.149 --> 00:12:43.870 convicted by a jury on both counts and sentenced 00:12:43.870 --> 00:12:47.470 to death. But there were some serious issues 00:12:47.470 --> 00:12:50.529 with the case. There was no physical evidence 00:12:50.529 --> 00:12:53.789 linking Tholmer to Cynthia's murder or Danyel’s 00:12:53.789 --> 00:12:57.509 disappearance. Fingerprints and hair found near 00:12:57.509 --> 00:13:01.129 her body did not match Tholmer. Witnesses placed 00:13:01.129 --> 00:13:05.230 Tholmer elsewhere. And Tholmer is right -handed, 00:13:05.269 --> 00:13:08.009 and it was determined that the killer was left 00:13:08.009 --> 00:13:12.330 -handed. Still, the jury convicted him, and he 00:13:12.330 --> 00:13:17.330 was sentenced to death. Judge James Stevens overturned 00:13:17.330 --> 00:13:19.690 the death penalty, telling the court that there 00:13:19.690 --> 00:13:22.429 were lingering doubts about the evidence. He 00:13:22.429 --> 00:13:25.190 noted that there was no clear motive and no testimony 00:13:25.190 --> 00:13:28.370 placing Tholmer at the scene. Kind of adding 00:13:28.370 --> 00:13:31.149 to this uncertainty was Lieutenant John Kane. 00:13:31.370 --> 00:13:34.210 He was a Sacramento police lieutenant who had 00:13:34.210 --> 00:13:37.649 inserted himself into both Cynthia and John Meadows' 00:13:37.730 --> 00:13:40.090 case despite not being officially assigned to 00:13:40.090 --> 00:13:43.190 either. Reports written by Kane were later found 00:13:43.190 --> 00:13:47.429 to contain inconsistencies and even fabrications. 00:13:47.909 --> 00:13:52.269 He had been demoted in December 1985 for manufacturing 00:13:52.269 --> 00:13:56.210 evidence and writing false reports, the same 00:13:56.210 --> 00:13:59.269 month he claimed to have obtained Tholmer’s confession 00:13:59.269 --> 00:14:02.830 in John Meadows' murder. Despite those known 00:14:02.830 --> 00:14:05.690 credibility issues, Kane's testimony was central 00:14:05.690 --> 00:14:10.169 to Tholmer’s conviction. As of today, 2025, Lionel 00:14:10.169 --> 00:14:13.110 Tholmer remains in prison and continues to maintain 00:14:13.110 --> 00:14:15.950 his innocence in Cynthia and Danyel’s case. 00:14:16.529 --> 00:14:19.289 He has long maintained that he was pressured 00:14:19.289 --> 00:14:21.809 into confessing by Lieutenant Kane and other 00:14:21.809 --> 00:14:25.330 officers. And through all of this, every appeal, 00:14:25.549 --> 00:14:29.129 every year that has passed, little Danyel Sparpana 00:14:29.129 --> 00:14:34.549 has never been found. And that is the real tragedy 00:14:34.549 --> 00:14:37.730 in all of this case, and that is truly all we 00:14:37.730 --> 00:14:40.509 know about her disappearance. So if you know 00:14:40.509 --> 00:14:42.730 anything about the disappearance of Danyel 00:14:42.730 --> 00:14:46.870 Sparpana in November of 1985 or her whereabouts 00:14:46.870 --> 00:14:49.769 today, please call the West Sacramento Police 00:14:49.769 --> 00:14:57.289 Department at 916 -375 -6474. So that is the 00:14:57.289 --> 00:15:00.970 missing person case of Daneyl Sparpana. Before 00:15:00.970 --> 00:15:04.649 we get into it, I just wanted to comment that 00:15:04.649 --> 00:15:07.879 this case was kind of... Different from ones 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.000 that we have covered prior because essentially 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:14.919 here we have a murder and we have a suspect who 00:15:14.919 --> 00:15:18.899 is serving time for that murder. But with him 00:15:18.899 --> 00:15:23.960 continuing to say that he is innocent and with 00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:26.740 all of the details that came out at the end of 00:15:26.740 --> 00:15:30.940 this timeline, I'm curious as to why you've covered 00:15:30.940 --> 00:15:35.080 this. Yeah, typically, you know. This is always 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:37.360 unsolved crime. That's a big part of our mission. 00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:40.639 But with this case, with Danyel’s case specifically, 00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:42.600 we have never found her. We have never found 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:47.080 a trace of her. So I do think that having answers 00:15:47.080 --> 00:15:49.399 with what happened to Danyel is really important 00:15:49.399 --> 00:15:51.799 because truly we've never really gotten them. 00:15:52.100 --> 00:15:56.620 And while I am not, you know, my passion is for... 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:01.799 cold cases and missing people. It's not in wrongful 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:04.179 convictions. There's a lot of experts out there 00:16:04.179 --> 00:16:06.580 doing amazing work in this field. So I am by 00:16:06.580 --> 00:16:09.460 no means an expert. But a lot of things just 00:16:09.460 --> 00:16:12.259 seemed fishy to me around Tholmer’s confession 00:16:12.259 --> 00:16:15.100 and the fact that we just still do not really 00:16:15.100 --> 00:16:18.259 have any answers in what happened to Danyel. 00:16:19.149 --> 00:16:21.429 And what happened to her mother. I just thought 00:16:21.429 --> 00:16:23.190 that this would be an important case to bring 00:16:23.190 --> 00:16:26.350 to cold and missing and at least get people talking 00:16:26.350 --> 00:16:28.570 about Danyel and looking for her because she 00:16:28.570 --> 00:16:31.830 is still missing. Even though there is a conviction 00:16:31.830 --> 00:16:34.429 for her murder, we do not know what happened 00:16:34.429 --> 00:16:38.110 to her. So she should she should come home. I 00:16:38.110 --> 00:16:39.970 couldn't agree more. And I'm so glad that you 00:16:39.970 --> 00:16:43.149 brought this case to cold and missing. The mother 00:16:43.149 --> 00:16:46.769 and daughter duo sounded like two peas in a pod. 00:16:48.090 --> 00:16:51.769 Like a small team of a family brimming with love 00:16:51.769 --> 00:16:55.289 and life and it's shocking to me that I didn't 00:16:55.289 --> 00:16:58.590 know this story. Cynthia sounded like a devoted 00:16:58.590 --> 00:17:02.830 and loving mother and Danyel sounded like just 00:17:02.830 --> 00:17:05.730 a warm little star that was just beginning to 00:17:05.730 --> 00:17:11.200 glimmer to life. Completely. The mother and daughter 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:14.319 duo in this, like their bond did seem so strong. 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:17.140 And Cynthia seems like such an incredible mother. 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:21.380 And Danyel seems like an incredible, intelligent 00:17:21.380 --> 00:17:24.779 child. That was one thing commented over and 00:17:24.779 --> 00:17:27.640 over again is how intelligent she seems. So yeah, 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:31.619 the fact that these two were snatched from us 00:17:31.619 --> 00:17:35.279 is really unfair. Before we get into the timeline, 00:17:35.420 --> 00:17:38.119 I wanted to ask some questions about the eve 00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:41.740 of the timeline. Do you think that there was 00:17:41.740 --> 00:17:45.680 someone possibly watching Cynthia and Danyel 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:49.539 on the night of October 31st during Danyel’s 00:17:49.539 --> 00:17:52.940 birthday party? Judging by the way that she was 00:17:52.940 --> 00:17:56.259 murdered, it seemed personal and brutal to me. 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:05.220 Someone that we just that we just don't know. 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:08.039 Yeah. So this was actually Cynthia's birthday, 00:18:08.380 --> 00:18:13.099 not Danyel’s. And I do think that, you know, 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:15.859 a stalker is a possibility. I would be curious 00:18:15.859 --> 00:18:19.319 if police investigated that went down that road 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:21.279 or if there was any evidence of that, because 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:26.480 like an open house party is kind of. I don't 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:28.839 want to say easy time to do it, but, you know, 00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:30.700 the lights are on. People are coming and going, 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:33.380 having a good time, not paying attention, loud 00:18:33.380 --> 00:18:36.039 noises, loud people. So it'd be easy to just 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:38.460 kind of watch the coming and goings. But we do 00:18:38.460 --> 00:18:41.039 know that Cynthia is on the phone at least the 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.079 next day to her friend Sylvia in the evening 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:47.900 hours. So if they were watching on Halloween 00:18:47.900 --> 00:18:50.220 night, they didn't make a move that evening. 00:18:50.940 --> 00:18:54.220 So as we move into the following days after Cynthia 00:18:54.220 --> 00:18:57.339 is no longer picking up the phone, what do you 00:18:57.339 --> 00:19:00.359 make of the sightings of Danyel? Because it 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:02.859 sounds like to me the neighbors were very sure 00:19:02.859 --> 00:19:07.079 of seeing her. And this wasn't the time of, you 00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:08.240 know, you didn't have a cell phone where you 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:10.119 could text like, oh, where they could confirm 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:14.259 that they had seen her to someone else. But I'm 00:19:14.259 --> 00:19:18.769 curious to you as I'm wondering if you. thought 00:19:18.769 --> 00:19:21.930 that those sightings were legitimate because 00:19:21.930 --> 00:19:25.950 i really did yeah you know the people seem so 00:19:25.950 --> 00:19:29.289 sure that they saw Danyel both of them spoke 00:19:29.289 --> 00:19:31.730 in several newspapers about how they were sure 00:19:31.730 --> 00:19:34.750 they saw the little girl outside playing um that 00:19:34.750 --> 00:19:36.390 they waved to her you know they interacted they 00:19:36.390 --> 00:19:44.190 waved to her so it's i would i would love to 00:19:44.190 --> 00:19:47.309 know the true answer to this Because I see it 00:19:47.309 --> 00:19:49.089 on both ends. I see it on one. It's like you 00:19:49.089 --> 00:19:51.029 rack your brain and you're like, when did I last 00:19:51.029 --> 00:19:52.809 see this little girl that's missing so I could 00:19:52.809 --> 00:19:55.869 be helpful to the police? And maybe you pull 00:19:55.869 --> 00:19:59.269 a memory that happened that week, but it just 00:19:59.269 --> 00:20:02.069 happened maybe a little bit later than what they 00:20:02.069 --> 00:20:04.289 remembered. Or maybe they remember seeing her 00:20:04.289 --> 00:20:07.609 trick -or -treating, you know. It's really both 00:20:07.609 --> 00:20:10.529 ways, but it is very curious that two different 00:20:10.529 --> 00:20:12.990 people were very sure that they saw her on two 00:20:12.990 --> 00:20:16.990 different days. I think that is of note and is 00:20:16.990 --> 00:20:19.990 kind of harder to explain away as maybe not real. 00:20:20.890 --> 00:20:24.210 Yeah, I think, and this isn't a great way to 00:20:24.210 --> 00:20:29.009 say it, but it's a double -edged sword situation. 00:20:29.430 --> 00:20:33.589 If Danyel was there, that means she was there 00:20:33.589 --> 00:20:37.480 while her mother... was dead. And if she wasn't 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:39.940 actually there, it means she was disappeared 00:20:39.940 --> 00:20:45.599 and or kidnapped. So either way, it does not 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:50.259 look good. And I do have to say that Dennis, 00:20:50.500 --> 00:20:55.279 Cynthia's father, searching the home and finding 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:58.680 his own daughter in this state is horrifying 00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:03.059 and heartbreaking. And again, the thought that 00:21:03.059 --> 00:21:07.710 maybe Danyel was in there with her mother is 00:21:07.710 --> 00:21:11.930 it's just unimaginable and I think that's why 00:21:11.930 --> 00:21:14.970 I'm trying to edit out that she was seen because 00:21:14.970 --> 00:21:18.789 I think personally it makes me very uncomfortable 00:21:18.789 --> 00:21:24.910 to think about that reality yeah it's it's devastating 00:21:24.910 --> 00:21:27.150 to think about Danyel especially because she 00:21:27.150 --> 00:21:29.950 was so smart you think she'd have like some awareness 00:21:29.950 --> 00:21:31.970 of what was happening even if it was a limited 00:21:32.730 --> 00:21:36.029 She would understand it was bad. It's heartbreaking 00:21:36.029 --> 00:21:38.950 to think about her feeding herself and taking 00:21:38.950 --> 00:21:42.269 care of herself while her mother is in a back 00:21:42.269 --> 00:21:45.430 room dead. However, that does make me wonder, 00:21:45.490 --> 00:21:49.289 since Danyel was so articulate and, you know, 00:21:49.329 --> 00:21:52.630 outgoing, talkative, I wonder if she had seen 00:21:52.630 --> 00:21:54.690 somebody, you know, I know one neighbor was in 00:21:54.690 --> 00:21:56.170 a car, so maybe she wouldn't have talked to her, 00:21:56.250 --> 00:21:58.579 but like if she had seen a neighbor. Would she 00:21:58.579 --> 00:22:00.519 have mentioned something like, oh, my mom's been 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:02.740 laying down for days, or, you know, there's a 00:22:02.740 --> 00:22:04.700 lot of blood, or would she have mentioned something? 00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:08.539 I do wonder about that, if she had an opportunity 00:22:08.539 --> 00:22:13.359 to. But yeah, I mean, I can't imagine Cynthia's 00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:16.279 father's, the way he felt, the panic of finding 00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:18.660 his own daughter, and then the sheer panic of 00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:21.819 where's the granddaughter? You know, I would 00:22:21.819 --> 00:22:23.359 assume you think you're going to find another 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:25.339 horrifying discovery, and then she's just not 00:22:25.339 --> 00:22:28.119 there, and that brings on its own. Horrifying 00:22:28.119 --> 00:22:31.920 discovery. So I really feel for the family in 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:35.539 this case, a massive loss in this family immediately. 00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:39.460 I do want to circle back to some of the smaller 00:22:39.460 --> 00:22:44.000 details of what neighbors and canvassing brought 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:48.839 about, which is. During the days or maybe on 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:53.119 the eve of after finding Cynthia, there were 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:56.819 gunshots heard. There was the idling truck. There 00:22:56.819 --> 00:23:00.720 was the possibility of seeing Ted, who also has 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:04.599 a twin brother. There's so many questions around 00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:06.819 those little details, and I just wanted to discuss 00:23:06.819 --> 00:23:10.900 them with you. Yeah, I would be really curious 00:23:10.900 --> 00:23:13.740 about the neighbor who says that she saw, you 00:23:13.740 --> 00:23:16.759 know, the ex -husband taking Danyel one evening. 00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:20.400 I think it was the Friday evening. So this would 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:24.220 have been like the night that Cynthia was talking 00:23:24.220 --> 00:23:25.920 on the phone, but then she never called her friend 00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:28.160 back. That was that Friday night. So that is 00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:31.920 also the night someone claims they saw the ex 00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:35.240 -husband taking Danyel out. I would be curious 00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:37.039 to know, like, if that neighbor had lived there 00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:39.519 a long time and, like, how long had Cynthia and 00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:41.240 Danyel lived there? Like, would she have been 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:44.099 very familiar with what the ex -husband looked 00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:47.480 like? You know, would she have recognized him 00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:49.480 right away? That's just something I would be 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:53.859 curious to know about that witness. But, you 00:23:53.859 --> 00:23:56.920 know, we know her ex -husband is ruled out. Police 00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:59.920 rule him out. I assume that they had to have 00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:02.160 ruled out the twin brother as well. Since you 00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.599 see somebody who looks like him, you have to 00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:06.640 look at the other person who looks like him. 00:24:07.460 --> 00:24:09.779 However, no reports about, you know, if they 00:24:09.779 --> 00:24:11.460 ruled him out, how they ruled him out or anything 00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:14.440 like that on the twin brother. So that's a question 00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:16.740 I have, but I have to assume that was done. It 00:24:16.740 --> 00:24:19.880 just feels so obvious if it wasn't. The other 00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:22.490 question that I have and. While it was only briefly 00:24:22.490 --> 00:24:26.490 mentioned, Cynthia was someone who in her recent 00:24:26.490 --> 00:24:31.589 past had experienced sexual assault. Now, I'm 00:24:31.589 --> 00:24:35.509 curious to know who that man was, who that man 00:24:35.509 --> 00:24:39.950 is, if anyone in her life knew who he was, if 00:24:39.950 --> 00:24:44.210 she even knew who he was. Because to me, it just 00:24:44.210 --> 00:24:48.920 came up as a red flag to me. While I know you 00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:52.099 might not be able to directly answer, I wondered 00:24:52.099 --> 00:24:55.339 if you also thought something about this person 00:24:55.339 --> 00:24:59.839 as if maybe he was a possibility. Yeah. You know, 00:24:59.859 --> 00:25:01.720 Cynthia being sexually assaulted, it did seem 00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:04.359 to scare her. And, you know, she told friends 00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:07.880 that she was scared of this man. But I don't 00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:10.619 know who he is. It's not reported on. And I don't 00:25:10.619 --> 00:25:14.119 know if Cynthia knew him or it was just, you 00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:18.269 know, him. In general, that she was scared of. 00:25:18.349 --> 00:25:22.369 But I don't have answers there. But it is something 00:25:22.369 --> 00:25:26.170 that I wonder how far police got down that road. 00:25:26.269 --> 00:25:28.890 And were they able to rule it out? When, where, 00:25:28.970 --> 00:25:32.589 why? And if not, that is definitely an avenue 00:25:32.589 --> 00:25:35.410 that if I was investigating, I would have gone 00:25:35.410 --> 00:25:37.309 down because she was scared. She was scared enough 00:25:37.309 --> 00:25:40.650 to buy a gun. So I think that's pretty telling. 00:25:41.289 --> 00:25:44.579 Yeah, I mean. Of course she was scared, and the 00:25:44.579 --> 00:25:48.119 purchase of a firearm to protect oneself after 00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:51.119 experiencing something like that is completely 00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:54.440 understandable to me. And the description of 00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:58.940 her gun, a .22 caliber, is a relatively small 00:25:58.940 --> 00:26:05.460 handgun, but it also matches the caliber bullet 00:26:05.460 --> 00:26:09.140 wound that she had. Not identically, but it did 00:26:09.140 --> 00:26:12.730 say that it was... made from a small caliber 00:26:12.730 --> 00:26:17.349 weapon so I'm wondering if that gun was present 00:26:17.349 --> 00:26:20.470 and was used on her. I think that is the working 00:26:20.470 --> 00:26:23.289 theory that her own gun was used in her murder 00:26:23.289 --> 00:26:26.089 due to the small caliber but since they have 00:26:26.089 --> 00:26:28.089 not been able to find the murder weapon that 00:26:28.089 --> 00:26:31.289 has not been 100 % confirmed but I think that 00:26:31.289 --> 00:26:35.710 is the working theory. I am grateful to know 00:26:35.710 --> 00:26:40.230 that law enforcement continued to treat Danyel’s 00:26:40.230 --> 00:26:43.190 case with the utmost respect and continued to 00:26:43.190 --> 00:26:47.430 treat her as a missing child because she was, 00:26:47.569 --> 00:26:52.630 she is. And a lot of the times, especially in 00:26:52.630 --> 00:26:55.849 cases we've covered, law enforcement has dropped 00:26:55.849 --> 00:26:59.130 the ball. And I don't think that that was the 00:26:59.130 --> 00:27:02.619 case here. Again, I'm very grateful to hear that 00:27:02.619 --> 00:27:04.940 they continued to search for her because more 00:27:04.940 --> 00:27:10.720 answers did come. Which brings us to Thulmer. 00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:16.039 I think that Thulmer's confession sounded like 00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:19.420 he was scrambling for something, scrambling to 00:27:19.420 --> 00:27:22.500 make something up. It sounded like coercion to 00:27:22.500 --> 00:27:25.900 me. Lieutenant John Kane, the lieutenant that 00:27:25.900 --> 00:27:30.420 inserted himself into this case, sounded like 00:27:30.420 --> 00:27:34.140 an officer who did not do his job well, and he 00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:38.140 sounded like a liar to me. So I think it's very 00:27:38.140 --> 00:27:42.779 possible that this confession is made up and 00:27:42.779 --> 00:27:46.119 that the wrong person is serving time for this 00:27:46.119 --> 00:27:48.440 crime. I think that's really what's so scary 00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:51.079 about this case is that, you know, in a murder 00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:53.769 trial, It's beyond a reasonable doubt, especially 00:27:53.769 --> 00:27:59.069 in a death sentence case. It should be beyond 00:27:59.069 --> 00:28:03.630 a reasonable doubt. And again, I am no legal 00:28:03.630 --> 00:28:06.450 expert. I am not an expert on false confessions 00:28:06.450 --> 00:28:10.990 or false convictions. But I think it speaks volumes 00:28:10.990 --> 00:28:14.210 that a judge in this case overturned the death 00:28:14.210 --> 00:28:18.160 penalty. commuted it to life in prison without 00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:20.500 the possibility of parole he was already serving 00:28:20.500 --> 00:28:22.519 life in prison for the murder of john meadows 00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:25.940 but he has maintained his innocence with cynthia 00:28:25.940 --> 00:28:29.480 and Danyel’s case and ultimately we just like 00:28:29.480 --> 00:28:31.299 still don't have answers around what happened 00:28:31.299 --> 00:28:34.900 to Danyel throughout the entire court case 00:28:34.900 --> 00:28:38.299 there were no answers about what happened to 00:28:38.299 --> 00:28:42.819 her where her body is um nothing so i think getting 00:28:42.819 --> 00:28:45.890 answers with what happened to Danyel is a The 00:28:45.890 --> 00:28:48.289 utmost importance. I've said it before on this 00:28:48.289 --> 00:28:51.490 podcast, but I'll say it again, that there is 00:28:51.490 --> 00:28:54.049 no excuse to not know what happened to a child. 00:28:54.130 --> 00:28:57.329 I think those are the most important cases that 00:28:57.329 --> 00:28:59.769 should be worked by police. Missing children 00:28:59.769 --> 00:29:02.990 should always have an answer. I think it's a 00:29:02.990 --> 00:29:04.930 shame that we don't have answers in Danyel’s 00:29:04.930 --> 00:29:09.700 case. Yeah, again, I think it. is worth mentioning 00:29:09.700 --> 00:29:11.660 that it's really important that you brought this 00:29:11.660 --> 00:29:16.619 case to us because it did involve a murder, Danyel’s 00:29:16.619 --> 00:29:22.700 mother's murder. This case can become very gray 00:29:22.700 --> 00:29:25.819 because there's so much information. There is 00:29:25.819 --> 00:29:33.210 a full murder and a confession that can... That 00:29:33.210 --> 00:29:35.609 can allow this case to go in multiple directions. 00:29:35.990 --> 00:29:39.349 And again, like you said, it needs to keep being 00:29:39.349 --> 00:29:42.410 brought back to Danyel. What happened to Danyel? 00:29:42.650 --> 00:29:46.109 Where is she? If someone took her, who did it? 00:29:46.230 --> 00:29:48.569 And where are they? There are so many questions 00:29:48.569 --> 00:29:51.109 in this case that need to be answered. And I 00:29:51.109 --> 00:29:53.690 believe that it is absolutely possible that those 00:29:53.690 --> 00:29:57.150 questions can be answered here. I agree. I think 00:29:57.150 --> 00:30:01.450 if we go back, you know, we don't. just have 00:30:01.450 --> 00:30:03.690 blinders on and, you know, try to find all the 00:30:03.690 --> 00:30:05.789 evidence that leads to Tholmer , if we just go 00:30:05.789 --> 00:30:08.009 back and really comb through this, yes, maybe 00:30:08.009 --> 00:30:09.869 it does lead back to Tholmer and he's been lying 00:30:09.869 --> 00:30:12.250 this whole time, right? Like, then at least we 00:30:12.250 --> 00:30:16.869 know beyond a reasonable doubt. So that's what 00:30:16.869 --> 00:30:19.049 I need, beyond a reasonable doubt. And I don't 00:30:19.049 --> 00:30:21.029 have it. And we don't know where Danyel is. 00:30:21.230 --> 00:30:24.349 She is not resting in her final resting spot. 00:30:24.529 --> 00:30:27.509 So that is ultimately why this came to cold and 00:30:27.509 --> 00:30:30.660 missing, like I mentioned before. We need answers 00:30:30.660 --> 00:30:34.779 in Danyel’s case. So if you know anything about 00:30:34.779 --> 00:30:37.900 the disappearance of Danyel Sparpana in November 00:30:37.900 --> 00:30:41.960 of 1985 or her whereabouts today, please call 00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:45.200 the West Sacramento Police Department at 916 00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:51.299 -375 -6474. We will have pictures of Danyel 00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:54.460 on our Instagram again. With this case, we are 00:30:54.460 --> 00:30:56.319 focusing on Danyel, so we'll have a picture 00:30:56.319 --> 00:30:58.460 of Danyel and we'll also have an age progression 00:30:58.460 --> 00:31:00.779 to what she might look like in her late 20s, 00:31:00.779 --> 00:31:03.579 but she would be in her 40s today. So please 00:31:03.579 --> 00:31:05.579 keep that in mind. Please share it. Let's get 00:31:05.579 --> 00:31:07.539 Danyel’s face out there. Let's get her case 00:31:07.539 --> 00:31:09.480 out there. Let's get some energy behind it and 00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:12.059 try to get some answers on where she is because 00:31:12.059 --> 00:31:15.799 we don't know and we should know. So where is 00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:20.710 Danyel? Let's find out. You or someone you 00:31:20.710 --> 00:31:22.789 love is hard of hearing. We do have transcripts 00:31:22.789 --> 00:31:26.250 of all of our episodes on www .coldandmissing 00:31:26.250 --> 00:31:28.490 .com. You can find them all there. Those are 00:31:28.490 --> 00:31:31.609 the correct spellings for everything. You'll 00:31:31.609 --> 00:31:34.069 notice Danyel’s name is spelled differently 00:31:34.069 --> 00:31:37.170 than the typical way you spell Danyel. So if 00:31:37.170 --> 00:31:40.269 you want to get that kind of spelling and correctness, 00:31:40.369 --> 00:31:43.329 then go over to the official transcripts as the 00:31:43.329 --> 00:31:45.990 automatic ones in most podcasts. Most podcast 00:31:45.990 --> 00:31:48.869 players I do not have control over. And finally, 00:31:48.970 --> 00:31:50.630 like we mentioned at the top, if you could rate 00:31:50.630 --> 00:31:52.589 and review us, that would be amazing. It gets 00:31:52.589 --> 00:31:54.529 this case out there. It gets these other cases 00:31:54.529 --> 00:31:58.250 out there. It gives people some confidence in 00:31:58.250 --> 00:32:01.170 us and lets them give us a chance. So thank you 00:32:01.170 --> 00:32:02.569 if you've already done it. Thank you if you're 00:32:02.569 --> 00:32:04.470 going to do it. And thank you if you're thinking 00:32:04.470 --> 00:32:06.650 about it, because maybe one day you will. But 00:32:06.650 --> 00:32:08.710 that's all I have for you today. Thank you so 00:32:08.710 --> 00:32:10.930 much for listening to Cold and Missing. I'm your 00:32:10.930 --> 00:32:14.279 host, Ali . And I'm your co -host, Eli. Have 00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:16.519 a good week and stay safe, y 'all. Stay safe, 00:32:16.519 --> 00:32:16.740 y 'all.