1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,780 The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts. 2 00:00:13,780 --> 00:00:18,400 All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 3 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,160 Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages. 4 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,560 Listener discretion is advised. 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,280 I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski. 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,680 And I'm your co-host, Eli Sulkowski. 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:34,280 And this is Cold and Missing, where we cover cold cases and missing person cases. 8 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,640 Hello everyone and welcome back to Cold and Missing. 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,520 I am your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski. 10 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,260 And I am solo this week. 11 00:00:44,260 --> 00:00:49,360 If it is no surprise to you that this is coming out on a Wednesday instead of Monday and that 12 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,960 I am by myself, then thank you for following along on Instagram. 13 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:59,880 If you don't follow us on Instagram, I'm sorry to announce that Eli's mother passed 14 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:01,800 away unexpectedly this week. 15 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:09,120 So we spent the weekend with family celebrating her life and her memory. 16 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:14,640 So I just want to encourage everyone to love the ones you love. 17 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,800 Call someone up, tell them you love them. 18 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,040 Time is our most finite resource. 19 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,840 And it's just always really sad to say goodbye to somebody. 20 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:30,920 So I am by myself this week while Eli takes some time to heal and mourn, which is completely 21 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,200 understandable. 22 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:37,360 And he is well loved and being checked on by a lot of amazing people. 23 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:41,760 So thank you, those of you who commented on our Instagram post. 24 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:43,560 I really appreciate the love and support. 25 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,520 I know Eli does as well. 26 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:46,960 Just thank you to everybody. 27 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:51,440 And thank you for understanding that our episode came out a little bit later this week. 28 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,800 But with that said, this week we have a cold case. 29 00:01:54,800 --> 00:02:00,040 And just as a content warning at the top, this case does involve a young person and 30 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,880 there is mention of sexual assault. 31 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:09,880 Today we are talking about the cold case of Larry Jo Phebus. 32 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:15,880 And this takes place in Tioga, North Dakota in October of 1962. 33 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,400 But first a little bit about Larry Jo. 34 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,320 Larry Jo was 14 years old in 1962. 35 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:27,920 He was born May 8th, 1948 and he would be 75 years old today. 36 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:33,520 Larry Jo had recently moved to Tioga, North Dakota with his older brother Chester Phebus. 37 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,540 Chester was working in the oil fields and Larry Jo had come with him. 38 00:02:37,540 --> 00:02:40,240 The brothers were from Indiana originally. 39 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:45,760 Larry Jo was behind in school so he was still in the sixth grade at 14 years old. 40 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,960 But his teacher said that he was well adjusted and got along great with the other kids in 41 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:51,320 his class. 42 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:55,600 Even though he struggled with school, he would often take his school books home to re-read 43 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,320 the day's lessons. 44 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:02,320 Larry Jo would often tell his classmates and his teachers all about his family and 45 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,120 the love that he had for his siblings. 46 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,200 Larry Jo was one of six. 47 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:13,440 Chester and Larry Jo lived at the Traveler's Hotel with another young man named Sam Wallace. 48 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,900 Sam was 19 years old and he was also working in the oil field with Chester. 49 00:03:17,900 --> 00:03:22,720 He treated Larry Jo like a little brother and the three young men got along great. 50 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,120 Larry Jo, however, wasn't loving North Dakota. 51 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:31,120 He thought it was way too cold there and he was looking to move to a warmer state soon. 52 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:36,760 Larry Jo also had a habit of hitchhiking according to his brother and Sam Wallace. 53 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:42,520 His brother Chester said that he would often hitchhike between Tioga and Ray, North Dakota, 54 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,840 where he would visit the family of the girl that Sam Wallace was dating and would eventually 55 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:47,840 marry. 56 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:52,120 Ray, North Dakota, is roughly 15 miles from Tioga. 57 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:57,400 And according to Chester, the farthest that Larry Jo had ever hitchhiked was about 30 58 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:58,560 miles. 59 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,660 And now a timeline of events. 60 00:04:01,660 --> 00:04:06,800 So for the timeline, it's unclear when Larry Jo first became missing. 61 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:13,240 There are reports that he was last seen October 17th and October 20th, 1962. 62 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:18,840 I believe, based off of my research, that Saturday, October 20th is the correct date 63 00:04:18,840 --> 00:04:24,300 based off of the timeline that Larry Jo's brother Chester gives police. 64 00:04:24,300 --> 00:04:31,240 So on Friday, October 20th, 1962, Chester, Phebus and Sam Wallace have a double date. 65 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:36,460 They plan on going to the movies in Williston, North Dakota, which is about an hour away 66 00:04:36,460 --> 00:04:38,040 from Tioga. 67 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:42,440 Larry Jo asks to come along with the two of them, but they both say no and tell him 68 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,360 to stay at the hotel. 69 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,880 According to Chester, Larry Jo said, quote, you'll be sorry you aren't taking me with 70 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:50,600 you, end quote. 71 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:56,840 Chester and Sam last saw Larry wearing blue jeans, a green, brown and white sports shirt, 72 00:04:56,840 --> 00:05:02,120 black loafers, dark socks, and a black sports coat with a front zipper. 73 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:07,280 Larry Jo stood around five foot with a slender build and sandy blonde hair. 74 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:11,000 Chester and Sam head out on their double date, and when they return later that evening from 75 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,640 the movies, Larry Jo is gone. 76 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:19,080 Chester says, quote, he never went anywhere, to the store or to play football or anywhere 77 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,380 without leaving a note telling us where he was going, end quote. 78 00:05:23,380 --> 00:05:29,920 On Sunday, October 21st, 1962, this is the next day after Larry Jo has been missing, 79 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,440 Chester spends all day looking for him. 80 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:37,120 Chester says, quote, I talked to his two closest friends in Tioga and checked with other people 81 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:42,060 in Tioga and Ray, but nobody had seen him since Saturday night, end quote. 82 00:05:42,060 --> 00:05:48,200 On Monday, October 22nd, 1962, Larry Jo has been missing for two days. 83 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,820 Chester officially reports Larry Jo missing to the police. 84 00:05:51,820 --> 00:05:56,600 He also starts calling relatives, letting them know that Larry Jo is missing and hoping 85 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,840 that he might have turned up at one of their houses. 86 00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:05,640 One by one, people are alerted and nobody has heard from or seen Larry Jo. 87 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:12,240 In December of 1962, so Larry Jo has been missing for about two months now, Chester 88 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:17,160 will leave North Dakota and go live with his mother in Lacombe, California. 89 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:21,760 He leaves North Dakota because he's being asked to serve 30 days in jail. 90 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,000 And I thought this was interesting to read. 91 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:31,760 So they wanted him to spend five days in jail for running a stop sign, 15 days in jail for 92 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:37,880 no car registration, and another 15 days in jail for no driver's license. 93 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:39,920 So 30 days in total. 94 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,760 Instead of turning himself in to serve this time, he flees to California. 95 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:52,240 On March 28th, 1963, so it's been five months since the last time Larry Jo was seen alive, 96 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:58,440 farmer Clark Jenner and a hired farmhand John Mann were walking the fields picking up rocks 97 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:03,260 when they discover a partially nude teenage boy body in the field. 98 00:07:03,260 --> 00:07:06,640 His hands were tied to his neck with a clothesline cord. 99 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:11,520 Jenner farm was about two and a half miles from Alexander, North Dakota, which is about 100 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,920 an hour and a half away from Tioga where Larry Jo was last seen. 101 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:21,320 Farmer Jenner first calls Larry Lloyd Powell, who was the county commissioner since he farmed 102 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:22,640 nearby. 103 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:27,820 It's unclear by who or when but the police are eventually called and come out to look 104 00:07:27,820 --> 00:07:29,280 at the scene. 105 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,120 Police notice that the body is scratched and bruised still. 106 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,080 His clothes are found with and around him. 107 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:41,320 There is no ID, but the clothing found with the body matches what Larry Jo was last seen 108 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:47,800 in and Sam Wallace is able to confirm that the jacket found with the body is Larry Jo's. 109 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,640 Sam says, quote, I know it's his jacket. 110 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,440 I gave him the money to buy it. 111 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:53,920 I know it's him. 112 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:54,920 End quote. 113 00:07:54,920 --> 00:08:00,840 In the pocket of the jacket, police find a dollar and 40 cents all in change and a small 114 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,200 light bulb. 115 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:08,200 Since the body and the clothing match the description of Larry Jo, police are tentatively 116 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:15,200 IDing him as Larry Jo, but they will confirm with dental work during the autopsy. 117 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:21,300 Police are also unsure if where the body was found was where the murder took place or if 118 00:08:21,300 --> 00:08:23,680 it was just a dumping ground. 119 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:30,720 Nearby the body, police find Larry Jo's shoes, beer cans, pot bottles, a brown jersey 120 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:37,640 glove and either a towel or a piece of a car seat cover that was made of green Turkish 121 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,240 cloth. 122 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:44,480 Police are able to determine right away that Larry Jo was sexually assaulted since his 123 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,320 pants and boxers were found around his ankles. 124 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:53,680 The county commissioner who lived nearby told police that he recalled seeing a strange car 125 00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:58,040 in the area around November or December of 1962. 126 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,520 Near the body, police find old car tire tracks. 127 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:08,880 The next day, Friday, March 29th, 1963, Larry Jo's autopsy is conducted and it's confirmed 128 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,860 that he was sexually assaulted and died from strangulation. 129 00:09:12,860 --> 00:09:18,080 Police are also able to confirm with a local dentist that it was Larry Jo. 130 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:23,840 A pathologist believed that Larry Jo's body had been in the field since December. 131 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:28,280 Police get a hold of Chester and his mother Mary in California. 132 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:33,320 Larry Jo's mother is distraught at hearing the news of her son's murder. 133 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:38,520 Chester arranges to head back to North Dakota to help with the police investigation. 134 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,760 Police have no idea which way to turn on this one. 135 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:47,480 Sheriff Leroy Lutt says, quote, We have nothing really concrete to go on yet, end quote. 136 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:52,760 However, on Saturday, March 30th, just a few days after finding Larry Jo's body, police 137 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:57,980 appear to get a break when they find a car that had belonged to the Phebuses. 138 00:09:57,980 --> 00:10:03,400 It was abandoned on a county road and had been kept in a garage in Williston. 139 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:09,640 Police theorize that the light bulb that Larry Jo had in his pocket was intended as a replacement 140 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:11,960 for the tail light in the car. 141 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:17,760 Police refuse to comment on if the tire tracks found near the body match the vehicle that 142 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,400 had been abandoned. 143 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:24,960 Those are really all the details I could find around the car, but I personally have a lot 144 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,780 of questions surrounding this car. 145 00:10:27,780 --> 00:10:33,200 Police also look at other unsolved cases in the area to see if there are any connections, 146 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,440 but the investigation has stalled. 147 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,460 They're hoping with Chester coming back to the area that they'll generate some leaves 148 00:10:39,460 --> 00:10:41,280 from talking with him. 149 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:46,180 Sheriff Leroy Lutt says, quote, We're living in hope that the brother can give us a missing 150 00:10:46,180 --> 00:10:48,800 link that will help us solve the crime. 151 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,760 We're hoping and praying we can solve this thing quickly. 152 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,720 It's a terribly gruesome thing, end quote. 153 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:02,200 On Tuesday, April 2nd, this is four days after Larry Jo's body was found, Chester Phoebus 154 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,560 arrives in North Dakota to talk with police. 155 00:11:05,560 --> 00:11:10,840 First, police bring Chester to visually ID Larry Jo's body. 156 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:17,720 Upon seeing the body, though, Chester is unable to positively ID it as his brother Larry Jo. 157 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:23,240 After this police bring in Chester for questioning, but at the end of the day, they say they didn't 158 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:28,220 learn anything from him that they didn't already know from Sam Wallace. 159 00:11:28,220 --> 00:11:33,120 Police do mention that they are interested in talking with a truck driver that was believed 160 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,960 to have been a friend of Larry Jo's. 161 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:41,640 And I use the term friend loosely here since it sounds like this was a grown man that was 162 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:43,840 befriending a 14 year old. 163 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:49,040 Mary, Larry Jo's mother, decides that she wants his body sent back to Indiana to be 164 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:50,320 laid to rest. 165 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:56,040 The next day, Chester requests that police perform an x-ray on the body to confirm if 166 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:57,960 it is Larry Jo. 167 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:02,180 Chester tells police that his brother had broken his collarbone when he was younger, 168 00:12:02,180 --> 00:12:04,580 so it should show up on an x-ray. 169 00:12:04,580 --> 00:12:09,440 Police do the x-ray the same day and they are able to find the scar of a broken collarbone 170 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:10,960 on the body. 171 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:16,620 Between this, the clothing, and the dental records, police do confirm that it is Larry 172 00:12:16,620 --> 00:12:21,400 Jo, but they do say that they will have experts review it. 173 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,320 Police continue to question Chester about the murder of his brother. 174 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:30,640 Finally, Chester asks the police to give him a lie detector test so that he can clear his 175 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:31,640 name. 176 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:36,480 Both him and Sam Wallace are given polygraphs and they both pass. 177 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:44,920 On Saturday, April 13th, 1963, 16 days since Larry Jo's body was found and 5 and a half 178 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:52,040 months since he was last seen alive, Larry Jo is laid to rest in Moumee Cemetery in Owensville, 179 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:53,480 Indiana. 180 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,960 Police continue to investigate Larry Jo's murder behind the scenes. 181 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:05,080 The next month, in May, police in North Dakota work with Alaskan authorities to hold a former 182 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,800 Tioga man for questioning. 183 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:12,560 Police in North Dakota say that he used to work in the area as an oil field operator 184 00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:16,440 and left town around the same time that Larry Jo disappeared. 185 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:21,680 The man refused to take a polygraph test and denied that he had ever lived in Tioga. 186 00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:27,520 According to police, he had given an employer in North Dakota a forwarding address, which 187 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,260 is how they were able to track the man down. 188 00:13:30,260 --> 00:13:37,340 In October of 1963, so it had been one year since Larry Jo was last seen alive, police 189 00:13:37,340 --> 00:13:40,540 are still not close to solving the case. 190 00:13:40,540 --> 00:13:46,640 They do say they have two suspects, one being a man in Alaska who is being held in a state 191 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:53,480 mental hospital, but police do say that they are close to almost ruling him out as a suspect 192 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:54,800 completely. 193 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,960 I have to wonder if this is the same guy in Alaska that police had held for questioning 194 00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:03,160 that I had just mentioned a few minutes ago. 195 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:08,240 The second suspects, they don't give any details about and they say that they haven't 196 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,600 talked to him yet, so I have no idea who this person could even be. 197 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:18,560 Sheriff Leroy Lutz says, quote, The killer could be very well in this area, right within 198 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:21,360 a couple blocks of me, end quote. 199 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,840 Police confirm that Chester and Sam are no longer suspects. 200 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,500 Police also plan to turn the case over to another county. 201 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:33,280 So Williams County had originally handled the case. 202 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:37,520 Tioga where Larry Jo was last seen alive was in Williams County. 203 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,760 All the work that had been done up until this point had been done by Williams County, but 204 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:46,700 now it was going to be handed off to Mackenzie County, which is where Larry Jo's body was 205 00:14:46,700 --> 00:14:48,060 found. 206 00:14:48,060 --> 00:14:54,400 At this point in October of 1963, Mackenzie County had not worked the case at all and 207 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:59,480 had not even reviewed it according to the newspaper reports at the time. 208 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:04,640 And that is truly the last update that we get on Larry Jo's murder. 209 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:09,400 It truly seems like once it got passed off to another police agency that the case just 210 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,280 really goes cold. 211 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:18,400 If you know anything about the death of Larry Jo Phebus in 1962, please contact the Mackenzie 212 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:25,920 County Sheriff's Department at 701-444-3654. 213 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:31,760 And the sources for the timeline today come from the Argus leader, the Billing Gazette, 214 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:38,480 St. Cloud Times, Rushville Republican, the Missouliyan, Rapid City Journal, the Republic, 215 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:45,240 Great Falls Tribune, Evansville Press, Ames Daily Tribune, the Bismarck Tribune, and Princeton 216 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,600 Daily-Claron. 217 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:52,240 So that is the case of Larry Jo Phoebus. 218 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:58,520 And I actually found this case because it is the oldest cold case in North Dakota, which 219 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,280 I just thought was interesting. 220 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,200 I thought, what is the oldest cold case in North Dakota? 221 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:08,320 And it is this unsolved case of a 14-year-old. 222 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:13,880 I was really kind of blown away by Larry Jo's life. 223 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:18,680 Like the fact that 14, he was kind of, you know, starting to drift around the United 224 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,000 States, but he was still committed to school. 225 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,200 You know, he signed himself up for school in North Dakota. 226 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:31,480 Perhaps his brother was, you know, adamant that he go to school if he was going to be 227 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,080 with him in North Dakota. 228 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:39,680 But, you know, it's also easy to imagine a 14-year-old boy, his brother, who is only 229 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:45,160 21 at this time, and then Sam Wallace, who also lived with him, being 19 years old, you 230 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,840 know, to kind of see all these young boys living together. 231 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:53,360 And maybe school wouldn't have been a priority, but it really did seem to be one for Larry 232 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:54,480 Jo. 233 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,160 I have a lot of questions in this case. 234 00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:01,320 And, you know, if I could sit down today with police and just ask anything I want, the first 235 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:07,680 thing I would want to know a lot more about is this car that was found abandoned in December. 236 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:13,980 So the car originally belonged to either Chester or Larry. 237 00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:16,320 It was registered to a Phoebus. 238 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:17,400 We don't know who. 239 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:18,400 It's not confirmed. 240 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:24,320 I would imagine it's Chester, you know, just based off of ages. 241 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:25,360 You know, at 14. 242 00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:30,480 I don't know how many 14-year-olds had their own car in 1962. 243 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,720 But I question where was it found? 244 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:36,840 Where was it abandoned? 245 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:43,600 I know Chester leaves North Dakota in December of 1962 because he kind of has, it seems like 246 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,720 some run-ins with his car. 247 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:51,560 You know, he runs a stop sign and then they're asking him to do jail time for the stop sign 248 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:57,160 stop, which I thought was crazy, the thought of doing jail time for not stopping at a stop 249 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:58,160 sign. 250 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,460 It just seems nuts to me. 251 00:18:00,460 --> 00:18:04,780 But then also there was no registration and he didn't have a license. 252 00:18:04,780 --> 00:18:08,880 So was that when this abandoned car was found? 253 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,400 And was that how maybe all of this started was around that? 254 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:19,480 But I have a lot of questions because police seemed to tie Larry Jo to the car with the 255 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,000 light bulb in the pocket. 256 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,760 Originally the newspaper's reports say that it was like a flashlight light bulb that he 257 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:31,960 was carrying in his pocket, but then police later theorized that it is a replacement for 258 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,600 the taillight of this car. 259 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:39,300 So if he had that, was it in October that this car was found? 260 00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:42,400 So obviously I have a lot of questions. 261 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:47,140 I don't understand exactly all the details around this car. 262 00:18:47,140 --> 00:18:53,920 And the other thing I have a big question about, Larry Jo was last seen in October, 263 00:18:53,920 --> 00:19:00,180 but the pathologist during the autopsy believes that his body was put in the field in December. 264 00:19:00,180 --> 00:19:07,160 So that gives roughly two months of Larry Jo being missing before his body is put in 265 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:08,160 that field. 266 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,880 So was he alive during this time? 267 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,280 Was he being held? 268 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:18,500 Police say that they see scratches and bruising on the body when they find it in March. 269 00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:20,500 So this would be three months later. 270 00:19:20,500 --> 00:19:22,740 This is still evident. 271 00:19:22,740 --> 00:19:26,440 And I'm not sure if this is just because North Dakota is cold. 272 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:33,280 So there would be freezing of the body, which might have helped preserve some of, preserve 273 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,880 the body from not only decomposition, but like, you know, save some of the bruising, 274 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:38,880 save some of the scratches. 275 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,600 So there's just questions around that. 276 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,740 I'm very curious about all of that. 277 00:19:45,740 --> 00:19:51,520 And then I just have to wonder because there were these items found around the body, you 278 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:57,520 know, his shoes were found nearby, but also pop bottles and beer bottles and a glove and 279 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:04,120 some very specific cloth, like this green Turkish cloth that they believe either came 280 00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:07,360 from a towel or a car seat. 281 00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:10,520 Could any of that be tested for DNA? 282 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,640 I would be really curious about about that. 283 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:18,720 You know, are we in a place where DNA testing is advanced enough that they could do it on 284 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:25,880 these pretty old items because I do know there is a, you know, DNA can degrade over time 285 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:30,520 and you know, there's kind of a shelf life to it, so to speak on objects. 286 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,840 So I am not an expert in DNA breakdown. 287 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,800 So I don't know exactly how long it can last on an object if it lasts longer on certain 288 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:39,800 surfaces. 289 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:45,940 But that is something I would be curious if at any time any of the items found in this 290 00:20:45,940 --> 00:20:51,560 case, because there does seem to be a bit of evidence that if found today would absolutely 291 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,500 be tested for DNA. 292 00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:59,520 So I wonder if that would even be a possibility or if it's just too old or the, you know, 293 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,440 the evidence wasn't handled or kept properly. 294 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:07,160 Those would all be questions that if I could have anything I wanted answered, those are 295 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,640 all things that I would ask personally. 296 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:14,560 I just also wonder if there were any true suspects in this case. 297 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,360 You know, at the one year mark, police mentioned that they have two, but one is almost ruled 298 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:22,240 out, but there is another one that they don't give any details about. 299 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,960 So that's another question that I think I would ask or that I personally want to know 300 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:28,200 more about. 301 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:34,080 Is that person truly a suspect or has that person been ruled out? 302 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,520 Have there ever been any like really good suspects in this case? 303 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,480 Because it just doesn't seem like there were any. 304 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,620 There was no big search when Larry Jo first went missing. 305 00:21:44,620 --> 00:21:49,720 You know, there was no big canvassing efforts or any attempt really to find him. 306 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,040 It just looks like the report was made and that was that. 307 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:58,080 So police were pretty far behind when they found the body and it doesn't seem like they 308 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,300 ever really got out of that starting point. 309 00:22:01,300 --> 00:22:08,200 But again, if you know anything about the disappearance or murder of Larry Jo Phebus 310 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:18,080 in 1962, please call the McKenzie County Sheriff at 701-444-3654. 311 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:23,920 And once again, I just want to thank you all so much for the love, the support while Eli 312 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:31,240 and I go through this time of grieving as we mourn the loss of his mother. 313 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:37,960 I know for me, me and my mom share true crime as something that we both like. 314 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,280 It's an interest that we share that we have in common. 315 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:45,720 And I know that was the same with Eli and his mom and me and his mom. 316 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:51,480 So you know, if that's a bond that you share with your mom, I just hope you call her today 317 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,240 and just tell her you love her. 318 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,880 If that feels good to you, I would totally recommend it. 319 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:03,600 But please, if you're not already, follow us on Instagram. 320 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,240 Hopefully we won't have any big hiccups come up. 321 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:11,280 But you know, in the past few months, we've had COVID hit our house and then we had a 322 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,480 death in the family. 323 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:18,400 So if we are ever going to delay an episode or have to cancel a week, all of those updates 324 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,120 can be found on Instagram. 325 00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:26,000 At cold and missing will pop right up and you can follow along with us there. 326 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,240 If you're in your podcast app and you're enjoying what we're doing, please rate and review it 327 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,080 and share it with your friends. 328 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:38,360 If you're in Apple podcasts, if you can leave us a review, it helps others find us and enjoy 329 00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:44,260 our podcasts and get these stories out to more people so that way we can hopefully get these 330 00:23:44,260 --> 00:23:50,660 closed and solved and just bring the media attention back on these cold cases and unresolved 331 00:23:50,660 --> 00:23:56,540 missing person cases that are usually not covered in the day to day media. 332 00:23:56,540 --> 00:24:02,360 And also on our website, you can find all of our past episodes, additional pictures, 333 00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:06,000 materials, blog posts, information about Eli and I. 334 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,360 And also if you or someone you love is hard of hearing or deaf, you can find transcripts 335 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:17,680 to all our episodes on our website, www.coldandmissing.com. 336 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,800 But that is all I have for this week. 337 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,480 So thank you for joining me. 338 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,720 I'm Allie McLaughlin, so Kowski. 339 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,600 This is Cold and Missing. 340 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:56,840 Have a good week and stay safe, y'all.