1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,780 The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts. 2 00:00:13,780 --> 00:00:18,400 All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 3 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,160 Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages. 4 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,560 Listener discretion is advised. 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,280 I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski. 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,680 And I'm your co-host, Eli Sulkowski. 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,560 And this is Cold and Missing, where we cover cold cases. 8 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,440 And missing person cases. 9 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,480 Hello everyone and welcome back to Cold and Missing. 10 00:00:37,480 --> 00:00:40,560 I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski. 11 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,960 And I'm your co-host, Eli Sulkowski. 12 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,960 Wow babe, a year, right? 13 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:52,080 Yeah, today is officially one year since we uploaded our first episode. 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,720 We've grown quite a bit since then, learned a lot. 15 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:01,120 And you've built something incredible and I get to see all the work that goes into it. 16 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:05,800 So yeah, this just, I mean, it's business as usual, you know, you're working your tail 17 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:10,080 off the moment before we just hit record. 18 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:17,440 So yeah, like it feels, it's very celebratory, but like we're humbled and we're excited, 19 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:19,280 like year two, let's do it. 20 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:20,280 Yeah. 21 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,760 Thank you to everyone who has been listening, even if you're just joining us today for the 22 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:24,760 first time. 23 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:26,440 Thank you so much for being here. 24 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:31,160 We have listeners in every state in America and lots of listeners around the world as 25 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:36,480 well, which yeah, is humbling and it's, it's an honor to be a part of your week in a small 26 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:37,480 way. 27 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:38,680 So thanks for being here. 28 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:39,680 Thanks for joining us. 29 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:44,520 And I think we should just get into this week's case, start the second year, just like any 30 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:45,760 other year. 31 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,240 Episode 53, correct? 32 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:49,240 Episode 53. 33 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:50,240 Alrighty. 34 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,840 Um, could you remind me this is a missing person case? 35 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,480 Yes, this is a missing persons case. 36 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:58,480 Alrighty. 37 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,800 Let's do it. 38 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:06,640 So just as a content warning at the top, this case does involve a young person. 39 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:12,280 Today we're going to be talking about Ann Marie Burr, and this takes place in Tacoma, 40 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:16,040 Washington in August of 1961. 41 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:22,480 But first a little bit about Ann, Ann was eight years old in the summer of 1961. 42 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:28,440 She was born December 14th, 1952, and she would be 70 years old today. 43 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:33,140 Ann was the oldest of four siblings and was a smart, caring and crafty young girl who 44 00:02:33,140 --> 00:02:36,800 had recently discovered embroidery and loved it. 45 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:42,640 Ann and her family lived on North 14th Street in Tacoma, just blocks from the University 46 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:44,640 of Puget Sound. 47 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:48,400 She was looking forward to starting the third grade at her elementary school where she was 48 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,080 a favorite student amongst teachers. 49 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:56,400 Her father, Donald Burr, says quote, she had a strong little personality and a strong frame 50 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,700 on which to express her personality. 51 00:02:58,700 --> 00:03:00,900 You just felt happy to be around her. 52 00:03:00,900 --> 00:03:04,200 She was just a regular little girl, end quote. 53 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,080 And now a timeline of events. 54 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:12,280 On Wednesday, August 30th, 1961, Ann spent the day playing with a neighborhood friend 55 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,560 and had dinner over at their house. 56 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:19,320 After having such a good time, Ann calls her mom to ask her if she can spend the night. 57 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,520 Her mother, Beverly Burr, thought that since school started next week that Ann should 58 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,720 come home to start getting into a bedtime routine. 59 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,360 Ann and her siblings are put to bed around 8 p.m. 60 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,220 The four siblings traded off sleeping in the basement. 61 00:03:33,220 --> 00:03:36,320 It was a special treat since it was part of the playroom. 62 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:41,240 Tonight was not Ann's turn for sleeping in the basement, so Ann and her youngest sister 63 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:46,920 Mary, who was three and had a cast on her arm at this time from a summer accident, went 64 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,520 upstairs while Ann's younger sister and brother went downstairs to the basement. 65 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:56,440 According to early reports, Donald and Beverly had family over that night, but by midnight 66 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:57,740 they were ready for bed. 67 00:03:57,740 --> 00:04:02,000 The front door was locked and the chain was put on and the back door was locked. 68 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,920 All the windows were closed and Donald and Beverly turned in for bed. 69 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,160 Their bedroom was on the main floor. 70 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:13,480 Early in the morning on August 31st, Ann is woken up by her younger sister crying because 71 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:14,840 of her cast. 72 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:19,000 She brings Mary downstairs to her parents' bedroom to wake them up. 73 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,840 Beverly sends the girls back upstairs, telling Mary that her cast will come off soon. 74 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:27,320 At 5.15 in the morning, Mary wakes up her mother again. 75 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,120 She's alone this time. 76 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,920 Beverly gets up and brings her back to her bedroom. 77 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,040 When she checks in on Ann's room, she sees her bed empty. 78 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,240 The bedsheets are pulled back but there is a neatness to the bed she recalls. 79 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,080 Thinking Ann went to the basement to sleep with her other siblings, Beverly starts to 80 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:44,240 head there. 81 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,520 Before she can get to the basement, she sees that the front door is open and ajar. 82 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,120 The front room window was also open. 83 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,600 It had been left unlocked the night before but it had been closed due to the rain that 84 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,160 moved in overnight. 85 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:02,040 When Beverly looks outside, she notices that a wicker bench, normally kept in the backyard, 86 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,160 was under the window in the front. 87 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,440 Donald and Beverly search every inch of their home, looking for Ann, but when she's not 88 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,680 found they call police that morning. 89 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:15,140 Donald and Beverly search Ann's room for anything missing but nothing is gone. 90 00:05:15,140 --> 00:05:19,760 It appears the little girl was barefoot and still wearing her ankle-length nightgown with 91 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,660 a flower pattern. 92 00:05:21,660 --> 00:05:26,280 As the parents are questioned, they recalled their dog barking once in the night and hearing 93 00:05:26,280 --> 00:05:30,440 neighborhood dogs bark but they couldn't recall what time that was. 94 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:35,120 Police say they don't find any sign of a forced entry despite the door and window being 95 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:36,440 open. 96 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:41,360 Police Chief Don Hager orders patrol cars to start going block by block looking for 97 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:42,720 the young girl. 98 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,680 Neighbors begin to turn out and search their own properties and basements in case Ann 99 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,440 was hiding somewhere. 100 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,700 As minutes creep by, Donald and Beverly get more and more worried. 101 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:55,540 Police searching the home have very little to go on. 102 00:05:55,540 --> 00:06:00,040 There were no signs of struggle anywhere in the home, including Ann's room. 103 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,960 Inside under the open window there was a footprint found but the morning rain had blurred the 104 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,240 details. 105 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,640 Police are able to determine that it's a men's size 6 or 7. 106 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:15,600 There were a few grass clippings on the rug in the living room and the bench outside had 107 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,120 a few red fibers left on it. 108 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:22,480 As word around town begins to spread about the missing 8-year-old girl, tips are called 109 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:23,880 into police. 110 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:29,680 One caller said that he saw Ann screaming in a blue and white car with California plates 111 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,580 driven by a man in his 30s. 112 00:06:32,580 --> 00:06:37,360 Police find the car and the man matching the description and the driver tells police that 113 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,000 the screams were coming from the radio. 114 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,280 Police release him. 115 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:45,640 Bloodhounds are brought in to try to track her scent but because of the wind and the 116 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,200 rain they were unable to pick anything up. 117 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:54,120 Police ask the FBI for help but because there is no evidence of an abduction they just observe. 118 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:58,880 Police search until 11pm that night but they find no sign of Ann. 119 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:04,760 Over the next two days a huge military operation is called into Tacoma to search for Ann. 120 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:10,600 On Saturday, September 2nd, nearly 800 military personnel composing of the Army and National 121 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:15,920 Guard join the police to search and the Army launches helicopters both days to help aid 122 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,300 the searchers below. 123 00:07:17,300 --> 00:07:22,240 They go block by block looking for any clue as to what might have happened to Ann. 124 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:27,500 Police haven't ruled out any theory yet including that she got amnesia and wondered off. 125 00:07:27,500 --> 00:07:31,720 Police are hesitant to say that someone entered the home through the window since the Burrs 126 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:37,160 had a small table under the window with delicate figurines and none of them were disturbed. 127 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:42,960 By the end of Saturday night, roughly 8-10 miles of Tacoma had been thoroughly searched. 128 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,920 This included vacant lots and abandoned buildings and there was no trace of Ann found. 129 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,640 The military is called off at the end of the day but police say it doesn't affect the 130 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,920 intensity of their investigation. 131 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:59,120 Inspector Emil Smith of the Tacoma Police says quote, will be on this 24 hours a day 132 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:00,520 for I don't know how long. 133 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:01,520 End quote. 134 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,840 On Sunday, September 3rd, Ann has been missing for three days now. 135 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,600 About 100 police and volunteers continue to search and police begin to coordinate with 136 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:15,680 the Public Works Department to have all the manholes in the area of Ann's house checked 137 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,600 along with the sewers leading all the way to the bay. 138 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:23,600 They start going underground on Monday and into Tuesday looking for any sign of Ann. 139 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:28,040 At this point police have searched by the air, ground, and underground and there was 140 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:29,740 still no trace of Ann. 141 00:08:29,740 --> 00:08:33,800 Police still don't classify it as an abduction since they're unsure if perhaps Ann just 142 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,340 wandered off and left the door ajar. 143 00:08:36,340 --> 00:08:41,440 With finding no trace of her in the sewer, police call in skin divers on Wednesday, September 144 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:46,360 6th, just six days after Ann went missing, to search the bay where the main outfall from 145 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,000 the sewer system went. 146 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,920 Police search commencement bay fearing that the water would hold the answer to what happened 147 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,640 to Ann, but police find no trace of her underwater either. 148 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,480 It's like Ann simply vanished according to police. 149 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:03,160 One week after Ann's disappearance, Donald and Beverly head to the police station and 150 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,880 ask that they be given a polygraph test. 151 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,560 Rumors in town that they were withholding information had gotten back to them and they 152 00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:12,200 wanted to clear their names right away. 153 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,480 Police say they both pass and say that they believe that Donald and Beverly have acted 154 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,340 in good faith with the police and have not held anything back. 155 00:09:20,340 --> 00:09:24,780 Not much to go on, police continue to search areas and research them, hoping they find 156 00:09:24,780 --> 00:09:27,680 something that was possibly missed the first time. 157 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:32,620 After nine days, Ann's grandmother offers a thousand dollar reward from her own savings 158 00:09:32,620 --> 00:09:35,380 for information leading to Ann's safe return. 159 00:09:35,380 --> 00:09:39,520 She says quote, I would give more if I could only get her back, end quote. 160 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:44,160 The family believe that someone crawled through the window and abducted Ann. 161 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:48,880 Police believe the reward is good, but probably too small for someone to overcome the fear 162 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,760 of telling the police what they know. 163 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:55,400 Over the next several days, a fund is set up for the reward and people donate money 164 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:56,800 for information. 165 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,440 All in all, five thousand dollars will be raised by the community. 166 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:06,080 On Thursday, September 21st, Ann has been missing for 21 days, police are stumped. 167 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:10,600 Detective Russell Richardson says quote, I have never seen anything like it. 168 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,440 We have nothing to give us any direction in the search, end quote. 169 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:19,480 By the end of September, police have interviewed every home within 70 square blocks of the 170 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,240 Burr's residence. 171 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,800 Police had run down every lead called into them. 172 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,840 The police say they don't know any more now than they did a month ago. 173 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,840 Police have gathered 225 suspects, and I use that term loosely. 174 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,720 They gathered the names of all known sex offenders in the area, people that were in the area 175 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,200 by circumstance, and a few leads that had called in. 176 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,960 Police will check out all their alibis and those they can't verify, they'll ask to 177 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,200 take a lie detector test. 178 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:52,720 Police also plan on having anyone within a 25 block radius take a lie detector test as 179 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:53,720 well. 180 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:58,220 As October rolls in, Donald and Beverly ask that people continue to check their properties 181 00:10:58,220 --> 00:11:00,760 again and to keep looking for Ann 182 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,980 Donald asks that hunters be vigilant on their tracks. 183 00:11:03,980 --> 00:11:09,000 He says quote, we would like the hunter walking along a gulch or valley to take the extra 184 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,160 little time to investigate if he sees something strange, end quote. 185 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,880 The parents also mentioned that there was a peeping tom in the neighborhood recently. 186 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,920 Police are starting to call her case an abduction. 187 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:26,100 Detective Russell Richardson says quote, the physical situation and all the attended evidence 188 00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:29,540 indicates an intruder did enter the house and take the girl. 189 00:11:29,540 --> 00:11:33,880 Our investigation has eliminated the parents as suspects, end quote. 190 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:38,700 Despite police believing in the abduction theory, the case is still not classified as 191 00:11:38,700 --> 00:11:41,800 an abduction so the FBI are still not involved. 192 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,440 Donald and Beverly are trying to be strong for their three other children. 193 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,620 Donald says quote, they look right into your eyes and they wonder what has happened in 194 00:11:49,620 --> 00:11:50,620 our house. 195 00:11:50,620 --> 00:11:56,320 They look like they have lost some security and they wonder will we, as a mother and father, 196 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,660 permit a man to come into the household and take one of them, end quote. 197 00:12:00,660 --> 00:12:04,860 The family continue to pray for Ann and they'll never give up on her. 198 00:12:04,860 --> 00:12:09,680 As fall continues to move into winter, there are other crimes and attempted abductions 199 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:13,580 of children that police look at but none lead back to Ann. 200 00:12:13,580 --> 00:12:17,640 On December 9th, Ann has been missing for 100 days. 201 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,840 Police organize a search of University Place, Washington. 202 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,360 This is directly west of Tacoma. 203 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,680 Police tell searchers to be on the lookout for the nightgown Ann was last seen wearing, 204 00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:33,080 a necklace that she wore with religious medals of Jesus and Mary on them, and a bracelet 205 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:38,400 with her address and phone number engraved as well as St. Christopher protect us engraved 206 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:39,400 on the back. 207 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,360 Amongst the searchers was Ann's father but nothing is found. 208 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,300 Police ask that if people are out hunting Christmas trees during the holiday season 209 00:12:47,300 --> 00:12:49,000 that they stay vigilant. 210 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:54,460 In March of 1962, so Ann has been missing for seven months at this point, a caller from 211 00:12:54,460 --> 00:12:59,000 Olympia Washington calls to say that he saw a little girl that looked like Ann with a 212 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,160 man and a woman. 213 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,560 The little girl was crying and asking for her mother. 214 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:08,040 Police search Olympia but they're unable to find the couple or Ann. 215 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,080 Police believe at this time that Ann is dead. 216 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:15,880 However, a few months later there is another possible sighting of Ann. 217 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,200 This time in Canada in Portage-La- Prairie. 218 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:25,160 A man at a service station saw two women and a man and a young child eating at the restaurant. 219 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,840 The man said the adults spoke sharply to the young girl and that she had demanded French 220 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:31,720 toast at the restaurant. 221 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:36,160 The man later saw a newspaper article with Ann's picture in it and recognized the young 222 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,160 girl in the service station as Ann. 223 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:44,120 The Royal Canadian Mounted Police are alerted but they're never able to find these people 224 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,320 or any sign of Ann. 225 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,940 In July of 1963, Ann has been missing for almost two years now. 226 00:13:50,940 --> 00:13:52,800 The Burrs adopt a baby girl. 227 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,560 They said they're happy to have four kids in the house again. 228 00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:58,400 Beverly says quote, the detectives have been wonderful. 229 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,560 We're in contact with them about once a week and we know they are doing everything 230 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:03,760 they can. 231 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,200 We still hope someone will remember something. 232 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,360 I guess we're reconciled. 233 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,320 It's hard to use that word. 234 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,120 To probably not see Ann Marie alive again. 235 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,400 But we can't take her out of our hearts. 236 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:16,400 End quote. 237 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:20,120 Police say they're no closer to solving it now than they were two years ago. 238 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,960 Two detectives are still assigned to the case and they have five thoughts on what could 239 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:26,840 have possibly happened to Ann. 240 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:31,960 So the first is that someone who was obsessed with Ann and wanted to take her specifically 241 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,120 abducted her. 242 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,800 The second thought is that Ann was enticed out of the house by someone that knew her. 243 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,960 Police say the light was left on in the living room so she would have been able to see someone 244 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:43,260 at the window. 245 00:14:43,260 --> 00:14:48,920 The third thought is that this was a vengeful act against the parents but police find no 246 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,640 evidence of this. 247 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:55,740 Another thought is that this was a money gain kidnapping but there are no ransom calls or 248 00:14:55,740 --> 00:15:00,680 notes ever delivered to the Burrs and the Burrs are not a wealthy family. 249 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:05,440 And the last idea that police have is that this could have been a case of mistaken identity. 250 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:10,880 There was another Burr family in Tacoma, Washington that was wealthy and they had a daughter about 251 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,400 Ann's age. 252 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:17,240 Police theorize that perhaps they were the intended targets for a ransom kidnapping. 253 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,780 But they don't discover any evidence to support this either. 254 00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:27,600 In July of 1964, so Ann has been missing for just under three years, 10-year-old Gay Lynn 255 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,520 Stewart is abducted after walking to a park from her home. 256 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:37,640 She's taken from Tacoma, Washington and for three days a man named Ralph Everett Larkee 257 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,920 drove around Washington, Oregon and Idaho with her. 258 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,500 He cut her hair and changed her clothes. 259 00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:48,760 After three days he dropped her back off in Tacoma with $15 and she was recognized when 260 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,120 she went into a store to buy some candy. 261 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:56,240 The FBI moved to arrest him in early September but as agents announced themselves at the 262 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,440 door they hear a gunshot inside and Larkee had shot himself. 263 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:06,000 The FBI aren't able to talk to him about Gay Lynn's abduction or about Ann's. 264 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:11,040 Police were very interested in talking to him about Ann's disappearance due to the similarities 265 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:12,340 in the case. 266 00:16:12,340 --> 00:16:17,400 At the four-year mark, Beverly and Donald write a letter published in the newspaper. 267 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,120 It reads in part, quote, 268 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,760 It was a black night and raining hard. 269 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,260 We wonder if the wind was screaming with her screams. 270 00:16:25,260 --> 00:16:30,460 We wonder if a group of drunken crazed boys took her or a mad sadist. 271 00:16:30,460 --> 00:16:35,720 Night comes and with it the fear, the listening, the horror again and again. 272 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:40,120 Only prayer can lessen the pain as we whisper, Dear God, be with Ann. 273 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,520 Please let us and other parents like us be strong. 274 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,640 The child pays for the crime in hours of unbelievable terror. 275 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,480 Parents pay every day they live. 276 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:50,480 The criminal? 277 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,560 We want him to be rehabilitated and paroled. 278 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,860 But not less there is a job waiting and a friend. 279 00:16:56,860 --> 00:17:01,480 And not unless he believes he was created for one purpose alone, to love God and to 280 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,920 serve him and this by loving his fellow man. 281 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:05,920 End quote. 282 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:11,400 In October of 1967, Ann has been missing for six years at this point, a man in prison 283 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,160 confesses to helping bury the body of Ann. 284 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:19,580 His story changes often, but he mainly says that a man who worked on a bean farm outside 285 00:17:19,580 --> 00:17:23,880 of Salem, Oregon had killed Ann and he helped get rid of the body. 286 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,960 Police bring the man from prison out to Oregon where he says it happened. 287 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:32,320 First police search a pond on the bean farm after he said that he had tied weights to 288 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:33,800 her and sank her body. 289 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:38,680 When they don't find any evidence in the pond, the next day he says that they had actually 290 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,800 buried her in a shallow grave near the pond. 291 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:46,480 While police don't believe this man since his story has changed so much, they can't 292 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,560 disprove what he's saying either. 293 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,920 So they check every place he points out. 294 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:55,000 Eventually they determine he's lying and they just take him back to prison. 295 00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:01,460 In 1971, at the 10 year anniversary of Ann's abduction, the family thanks the community 296 00:18:01,460 --> 00:18:04,920 for all they've done to look for Ann and support them. 297 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:09,880 They return all the donations from the reward fund back to the original donors. 298 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:16,360 In April of 1975, this is about 14 years since Ann's abduction, there are a lot of young 299 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:19,880 women that had turned up missing in the Tacoma area. 300 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:24,640 A reporter asked Beverly what she would tell the mothers of other missing daughters. 301 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:29,420 She said that it's impossible to put it into words, but to try to keep the faith and hold 302 00:18:29,420 --> 00:18:30,800 on to hope. 303 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,380 In 1975, Ted Bundy is arrested in Utah. 304 00:18:35,380 --> 00:18:41,020 Police in Washington become extremely interested in him, in part because of the unsolved Ted 305 00:18:41,020 --> 00:18:45,320 murders in Washington, but also related to Ann's disappearance. 306 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:50,640 Tacoma police major Robert Johnson had this to say about Bundy at the time of his arrest, 307 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,800 quote, we're extremely reluctant to discuss it out of fairness to this man. 308 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,960 We don't want to give the impression we're trying to pin every unsolved crime in the 309 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,200 last 20 years on the poor guy, end quote. 310 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:06,000 Of course, almost all the cases are eventually tied to Bundy. 311 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:12,200 It turns out that in 1961, the year Ann disappeared from her home, Ted Bundy lived in Tacoma, 312 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,200 Washington. 313 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,540 Bundy would have been 14 years old in 1961. 314 00:19:16,540 --> 00:19:19,000 He didn't live in the same neighborhood as Ann. 315 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,320 Bundy lived about two miles away, but he did have an uncle who lived in Ann's neighborhood 316 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,360 that he visited often. 317 00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:29,360 During that time, he had a newspaper route near the Burr neighborhood. 318 00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:34,280 It has also been said that Ann took piano lessons from a neighbor of Bundy's. 319 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,520 There is no evidence that I could find that the two ever met, but there was certainly 320 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,280 opportunities for their paths to cross. 321 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,760 The detectives who worked Ann's case the longest didn't believe that Bundy was involved. 322 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,600 They had figured the suspect fit into one of these scenarios. 323 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:54,120 The first being Ann is alive and being held hostage by someone that she knows. 324 00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:57,560 They don't believe that a stranger could have gotten Ann out of her bed without any 325 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,800 commotion or arousing the family dog. 326 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:06,040 Their second thought is that Larkee, the man who kidnapped Gay Lynn, had kidnapped and 327 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,840 killed Ann, but got rid of her body in one of the construction projects happening in 328 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,400 1961. 329 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,760 Police point out at the time that there was a sewer project happening in the neighborhood 330 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:22,240 with ditches 30 feet deep and the University of Puget Sound was also building and the day 331 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,360 Ann disappeared a large concrete foundation was poured. 332 00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:30,560 And the third idea is that police also theorize that a young man in the neighborhood killed 333 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,460 Ann but not Bundy. 334 00:20:32,460 --> 00:20:36,560 This young man was from a very religious family and that he had done it. 335 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,960 They put him on a lie detector twice and he couldn't pass according to police. 336 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:46,760 In January of 1989, this is 28 years after the night Ann disappeared, the state of Florida 337 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:52,020 had signed Bundy's execution papers and in a last-ditch effort to put it off again, 338 00:20:52,020 --> 00:20:57,080 Bundy said that he had killed 11 women and girls in Washington, 8 known by police and 339 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:58,080 3 unknown. 340 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,720 Bundy's legal team hoped that they will hold off the date of execution so Bundy can 341 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,920 give these confession and the bodies can be recovered. 342 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:10,320 He won't give details about the three unknown unless the date is pushed back. 343 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,720 Donald and Beverly Burr had been writing to Ted Bundy to try to get information out of 344 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,200 him about Ann. 345 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,000 They believed that Bundy had kidnapped their daughter. 346 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,280 Donald even believes that he saw Ted the morning that Ann disappeared. 347 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:28,720 When he and a search party were on the University of Puget Sound campus looking for her, Donald 348 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,160 saw a young man in the bottom of a watery pit near the construction site. 349 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,660 When he asked the youth about Ann, the young boy said he didn't know anything. 350 00:21:37,660 --> 00:21:42,240 Looking back, Donald says, quote, I see this young man's face before me always. 351 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,960 The likeness of Bundy was there, end quote. 352 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:50,120 Beverly had always thought that a young person had done it because the wicker bench wouldn't 353 00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:55,640 have held someone that weighed a lot and because of the smaller size shoe print under the window. 354 00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:00,840 Ted Bundy will eventually write back to Donald and Beverly saying that he did not kill Ann, 355 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:06,360 that in 1961 he was a normal 14-year-old boy and was not out roaming the streets late at 356 00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:07,360 night. 357 00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:11,880 He tells this much to the Washington State investigator Robert Keppell as well. 358 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,720 However, Keppell thought Bundy was lying and trying to protect his mother's feelings. 359 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:21,560 Bundy's mother, Louise, was adamant that Bundy did not commit any crimes under her 360 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,040 roof, that those all happened once he had left. 361 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:29,280 Keppell also thinks that Bundy's explanation of why he had nothing to do with Ann's 362 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:30,920 disappearance was weak. 363 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:36,160 He says, quote, he denied that he did it, but he kind of offered some qualifiers. 364 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,300 He told me he was too young at the time. 365 00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:41,480 He told me serial killer start a little older than that. 366 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,600 My feeling is Bundy isn't telling the truth. 367 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,080 He gave me a weak explanation of why he wasn't the killer. 368 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,160 End quote. 369 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:53,760 Police also point to an interview that Bundy did with Tom Holmes in 1986. 370 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:59,320 When Holmes asked Bundy to speak hypothetically about a killer like him, Bundy theorized that 371 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:05,040 someone like him would hypothetically start at around 14 or 15 by killing an eight or 372 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,800 nine-year-old girl. 373 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,720 Police believe he was talking about himself and Ann. 374 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:15,960 In August of 1999, 38 years after Ann was last seen in those early morning hours, a 375 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,960 memorial service is held for her. 376 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,680 Donald Burr said, quote, life cycle is coming around and we think we may want to finish 377 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,840 this and face the reality of one of our children have left us. 378 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:27,840 End quote. 379 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:32,620 Donald and Beverly, along with the police currently handling the case, believe Bundy 380 00:23:32,620 --> 00:23:35,920 is the killer and Ann was his first victim. 381 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:40,520 Bundy's mother, Louise, says, quote, I resent the fact that everybody in Tacoma thinks just 382 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,960 because he lived in Tacoma he did that one too, way back when he was 14. 383 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,480 I'm sure he didn't. 384 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:47,480 End quote. 385 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:53,960 In July of 2011, 50 years since Ann disappeared, an investigator working on her case wanted 386 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:59,240 to know if there was a DNA sample of Bundy that could be tested against evidence from 387 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,160 Ann's case that had never been analyzed. 388 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:07,040 Police don't give any details about what this evidence could be. 389 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:12,240 From my understanding, they had very little to go on in 1961, so we're not sure what 390 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,120 items the police have kept as evidence. 391 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:19,840 By luck, a vial of Bundy's blood was still on file even though it had been set to be 392 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,960 destroyed years ago. 393 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:27,040 Police are able to upload his DNA into CODIS and compare him against evidence from Ann's 394 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,040 case. 395 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:33,440 So, some months after these items were submitted in October of 2011, the results come back 396 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:38,840 and the lab was not able to develop a DNA profile of the suspect from the evidence in 397 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,440 Ann's case. 398 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:45,680 No suspects were able to be eliminated via DNA, including Ted Bundy. 399 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:51,080 And that is the last update that we have on Ann Burr's case. 400 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:57,960 So if you know anything about the disappearance of Ann Marie Burr in August of 1961 or her 401 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:08,960 whereabouts today, you are encouraged to call the Tacoma Police Department at 253-798-4721. 402 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:14,360 And the sources for the timeline today come from the News Tribune, who covered this story 403 00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:21,640 extensively from 1961 to present day, the Bellingham Herald, Longview Daily News, Kitsap 404 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:29,080 Sun, The Olympian, The Spokesman Review, Tri-City Herald, The Columbian, Spokane Chronicle, 405 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,400 and The Bellingham Herald. 406 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,700 So that is the case of Ann Marie Burr. 407 00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:35,700 There were a lot of details. 408 00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:41,480 Thank you for providing all of that content and I'm sure putting some of the storyline 409 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:49,520 together for us to follow because I, in listening, didn't really walk away with a ton of questions. 410 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:57,560 Some initial thoughts though are I'm not really interested in talking about the Bundy theory 411 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,960 unless like you want to just briefly we can like breeze over it. 412 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:06,120 I just I don't think that that person needs any more like mic time. 413 00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:10,160 I'm like yeah, like I get you explained it perfectly. 414 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,160 I understand. 415 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,160 Sure. 416 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:19,800 But the question I did walk away with was for you like in your research did you did 417 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,560 you have a suspect in mind? 418 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:28,920 First of all, I agree with you that I don't think the Ted Bundy needs a lot of mic time, 419 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,200 but it's really tempting to want to pin it on him. 420 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:40,920 And I wouldn't I definitely don't bat like I'm not like whatever I'm like oh it is 100% 421 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,000 possible. 422 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:47,660 I guess I'm just like to be a part of the narrative of just like kind of dismantling 423 00:26:47,660 --> 00:26:55,120 the excitement around serial killers like and I'm you know unfortunately if someone 424 00:26:55,120 --> 00:27:00,040 who was have been a part of that and I just don't want to be in this. 425 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,040 Yeah. 426 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:06,760 Yeah, it's it's totally possible but I think also kind of dismantling that I don't know 427 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:17,640 if Ted Bundy is that good at you know murdering people that on his first one at 14 years old 428 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,660 he could get away with it. 429 00:27:19,660 --> 00:27:23,600 No evidence, no murder, nobody hears anything. 430 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,360 Nobody finds her. 431 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:30,480 It just seems wild to me that a 14 year old even a 14 year old Ted Bundy would be able 432 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,840 to pull off this. 433 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:34,840 It's a big crime. 434 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:35,840 Yeah. 435 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:36,840 I mean. 436 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:42,680 But also on the same token, a suspect that police really liked that I kind of saw come 437 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:49,400 up again and again was this younger person that lived in the neighborhood that knew the 438 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:50,400 Burrs. 439 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:55,480 He came from a religious family that was like really the only clue the police gave to his 440 00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:00,440 identity that he would have committed the crime and police said that he would have known 441 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,520 the layout of the Burrs home as well where Bundy would not have known the layout of the 442 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:06,520 home at all. 443 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,360 He would have just gotten lucky. 444 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:09,360 Yeah. 445 00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:18,560 That size shoe as well about the size of a like an at quote average like girl would also 446 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,960 wear that size or woman you know. 447 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:28,960 So yeah I would say that's about like a girl's seven or eight. 448 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,680 Yeah it was also something that I thought in reading this is that police always refer 449 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:39,240 to the suspect as a male but I'm like are they just assuming that because historically 450 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,200 that is the case. 451 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:47,040 But I personally am like well what about somebody like a woman wanting to do it. 452 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:54,120 Yeah and especially of the time again like definitely more girls play with girls boys 453 00:28:54,120 --> 00:29:02,600 plays play with boys like your like girlfriends know your bedroom know your whole house. 454 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,520 You guys are running and running around you know like think about like sleepovers and 455 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:12,840 stuff like your little friends know the layout so do babysitters. 456 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:18,760 So yeah I was like this could be a like an adult woman who happens to be maybe on the 457 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,680 more petite side you know. 458 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:27,080 Yeah police did seem for sure that the suspect whoever they are whether they were like a 459 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:32,760 smaller adult or maybe a teen that they had to have been on the shorter side to need the 460 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,320 wicker bench to get up and over the front window. 461 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,680 Somebody who might have been a little bit taller could have just lifted themselves up 462 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:40,680 and over. 463 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:47,520 Yeah so yeah those are like my reactions and questions for the most part like who do you 464 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,840 did do you have a suspect getting back to it. 465 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:58,920 Yeah the day that Ann went missing a caller said that he saw Ann in a car screaming. 466 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,240 Police find the car and the guy doesn't deny screaming he says the screaming was coming 467 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,440 from the radio and police let him go. 468 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:13,480 I think that there's something in all of that personally it was just the caller said 469 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:20,560 he saw Ann in a car he saw her and then this man is later pulled over he has California 470 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:26,760 plates there in Washington he has a blue and white car so there are some distinctive features 471 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,800 and he said the screaming comes from the radio so he never denies that there was screaming 472 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,240 happening. 473 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,200 Why wasn't that man looked at a second time that's what I can't understand or was he 474 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,080 and I missed it. 475 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,520 Not that I could find or that I could ever see talked about again it seems like police 476 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:49,120 track him down they talk to him right there they let him go. 477 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:56,160 But you know I hope that there is a resolution for Ann's siblings they're still with us 478 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:02,960 her parents have passed on but her siblings are still alive and hoping for answers. 479 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,520 My heart really goes out to them. 480 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:14,200 The imagery of the story you know just listening to it I was like terrified. 481 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:22,080 It's very scary to and my mind lends itself to like recreate imagery that like scares 482 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,960 me but like it scared me to hear that it scared me to hear it. 483 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:32,240 It's a scary story like you know in the middle of the night Ann is up with her younger sister 484 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,320 and then just a few hours later she's gone and the doors open and the windows open that's 485 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,320 a nightmare. 486 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,640 It is a yes it is a nightmare. 487 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:46,880 Yeah it's a nightmare if you are someone who you know is interested and invested in the 488 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:54,600 true crime world it's a lot of our worst fears you know for sure is mine and knowing how 489 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:59,200 easily life can be turned upside down. 490 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:05,480 Ted Bunny is a big name the fact that like I didn't really know this you know speaks 491 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:14,400 volumes about the necessity for not just podcasts but like hubs of like people who like care 492 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,800 about talk just like talking about stuff like this because I'm like how did I not know. 493 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:25,200 I'm someone who like it should have come across my radar you know and maybe it did and I wasn't 494 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:31,080 listening but I am I'm listening now. 495 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:36,360 I'll be honest I you know I've read The Stranger Beside Me I've watched documentaries. 496 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,640 Oh yeah of course I mean I think anyone who's listening is probably like yeah me too me 497 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,360 too me too it's an echo chamber in here in regards to that. 498 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:53,360 Totally but I didn't know about this potential first victim when he was 14 years old and 499 00:32:53,360 --> 00:33:01,760 how deeply investigators still on the case today kind of believe this theory. 500 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:07,280 So yeah the cops have a couple theories and Ted Bundy is still on the list. 501 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:12,680 He's still on the list they haven't been able to eliminate him they tried with his DNA but 502 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:19,240 unfortunately they weren't able to develop a profile of the suspect in Ann's case so 503 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,640 he couldn't be eliminated. 504 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:29,440 Again if you know anything about the disappearance of Ann Marie Burr in August of 1961 or her 505 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:39,720 whereabouts today please call the Tacoma Police Department at 253-798-4721. 506 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:47,840 And while we've still got your attention hopefully please while you're in your podcast app rate 507 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:54,240 like subscribe Apple podcasts leave us a written review we love to see those. 508 00:33:54,240 --> 00:34:00,160 And if you're already following us on Instagram you've seen our updated logo hopefully you're 509 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,200 seeing it now in your podcast player as well that means I did everything right to get it 510 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:09,000 uploaded but if not you should be following us on Instagram we'll have pictures of Ann 511 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:15,880 Marie or you can check out our website coldandmissing.com you can review us there you can leave a donation 512 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,160 there you can send us a voicemail there so anything you want to know even if you want 513 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:26,880 to know a little bit more about Eli and I it's all on our website www.coldandmissing.com 514 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:34,360 and just thank you again for being here as we enter our second year of cold and missing 515 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:39,880 I can't wait to see where this goes and I'm glad you're here and a part of it and with 516 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,600 that have a good week and stay safe y'all. 517 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,120 Thanks for being here and stay safe y'all.