1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,780 The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts. 2 00:00:13,780 --> 00:00:18,400 All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 3 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,160 Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages. 4 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,560 Listener discretion is advised. 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,280 I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski. 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,680 And I'm your co-host, Eli Sulkowski. 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,580 And this is Cold and Missing, where we cover cold cases. 8 00:00:32,580 --> 00:00:34,280 And missing person cases. 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,880 Hello everyone and welcome back. 10 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:38,160 Welcome back everyone. 11 00:00:38,160 --> 00:00:39,520 I'm your host, Ali. 12 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,920 And I am your co-host, Eli. 13 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:46,720 And I am so sorry for the unexpected hiatus we took last week. 14 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:51,160 Yeah, I've been a little spotty in attendance as well. 15 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:54,420 But COVID hit our household last week. 16 00:00:54,420 --> 00:00:58,600 If you follow us on Instagram, at Cold and Missing, quick plug in at the beginning of 17 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:03,880 the show, but please follow us there so that way, heaven forbid this happened in the future, 18 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:08,440 but we put updates on there for our new episodes every week. 19 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:14,560 And when COVID hits your household and knocks you on your butt, as it did with me, wow, 20 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,760 this was my first time with COVID, y'all. 21 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:22,960 And here's just a friendly reminder to wash your hands, keep up on those good COVID practices, 22 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:25,920 because y'all don't want this new variant or whatever I got. 23 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:27,280 It sucked. 24 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:32,840 As you might hear, I am actually still recovering from COVID. 25 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:37,200 I caught it from my beautiful wife. 26 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:41,600 And yeah, I mean, it's rough. 27 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:47,560 The body is a resilient thing, but man, have we been resilient. 28 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,840 But happy to be back, grateful to be back. 29 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:56,800 I think update me, Al, what episode number will this be? 30 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:01,720 So this is episode 47, and we have a missing person case. 31 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:02,720 Missing person. 32 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,560 All right, would you like to just dive in? 33 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,760 Yeah, we've kept everyone waiting long enough. 34 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:10,920 Great, let's do it. 35 00:02:10,920 --> 00:02:16,080 So today I have for you the missing person case of Leona Kinsey. 36 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,480 And this case actually comes to us from a listener. 37 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:24,380 So quick shout out to Mel, who is a victim's advocate for Leona. 38 00:02:24,380 --> 00:02:30,440 So Mel was kind enough to introduce me to Leona's daughter, Carolyn, who I was able 39 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:36,760 to connect with and work with both Carolyn and Mel to gather information on the story. 40 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:41,340 So thank you so much to Carolyn and Mel right off the top. 41 00:02:41,340 --> 00:02:48,680 So Leona Kinsey, this takes place in La Grande, Oregon in October of 1999. 42 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,080 But first, a little bit about Leona. 43 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,640 Leona is 45 years old in 1999. 44 00:02:54,640 --> 00:03:00,360 She was born December 15, 1953, and she would be 69 years old today. 45 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:07,720 In 1999, Leona was 5'5", 110 pounds, and had brown eyes and shoulder length brown hair. 46 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:12,680 She is a member of the Puyallup and Yakima tribe in Washington state and has a tattoo 47 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,800 of a tomahawk and a peace pipe crossed on her bicep. 48 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:22,080 Leona is described as having a huge heart and being very compassionate, but also a fire 49 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:23,140 cracker. 50 00:03:23,140 --> 00:03:26,720 She was fiercely independent and knew how to live off of the land. 51 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:32,060 Leona ran her own lawn care business and had a fully booked week of jobs at the time of 52 00:03:32,060 --> 00:03:33,960 her disappearance. 53 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:39,760 Leona has one daughter, Carolyn DeFord, who also does incredible work. 54 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:44,480 Carolyn works for the Puyallup tribe as an anti-trafficking program manager. 55 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:49,880 This is from a biography I found online for Carolyn when she spoke to the city of Kent, 56 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:54,960 and I'm sure Leona would also want me to brag on her daughter in this way, so I'm 57 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,560 going to take a moment and read it because Carolyn is an amazing woman. 58 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:04,640 Carolyn DeFord's personal experience as a survivor and being the daughter of a long-term 59 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:10,020 missing person inspired her to create Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, a grassroots 60 00:04:10,020 --> 00:04:14,820 volunteer advocacy organization focused on finding the missing women and helping the 61 00:04:14,820 --> 00:04:17,520 families of murdered women cope with their grief. 62 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:22,520 She is a board member of the Inter-Tribal Coalition Against Violence, Washington Against 63 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:27,360 Sex Trafficking, and the Washington State Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and 64 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:28,980 Person Task Force. 65 00:04:28,980 --> 00:04:34,720 She works tirelessly to address domestic violence, sexual assault, human trafficking, and missing 66 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,280 and murdered Indigenous women and people with her work. 67 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:41,440 Now a timeline of events. 68 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,440 So Monday, October 25, 1999. 69 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:50,720 Leona is doing some grocery shopping at Walmart when she runs into her best friend Nancy. 70 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:55,360 Leona tells Nancy that she's going to stop by her place after she heads over to Albertson's 71 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:56,980 grocery store. 72 00:04:56,980 --> 00:05:01,180 Leona tells Nancy that she is meeting a man named John there. 73 00:05:01,180 --> 00:05:05,360 Leona had struggled with addiction in the past, and it is believed that she might have 74 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,920 relapsed at this time and John was a drug dealer. 75 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,100 When Leona fails to turn up to Nancy's home, Nancy begins to worry. 76 00:05:13,100 --> 00:05:17,280 She jumps in her car and starts driving around to Leona's favorite haunts to see if she's 77 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:18,880 there, but she can't find her. 78 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:25,680 Nancy is unable to locate Leona or Leona's vehicle, which was a 1980s light brown GMC 79 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:26,680 Jimmie. 80 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:33,240 On Tuesday, October 26, this is the next day, Carolyn, Leona's daughter, wakes up in Washington 81 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,120 State and is crying over everything. 82 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:40,580 She says, quote, something wasn't right, but I couldn't put my finger on it. 83 00:05:40,580 --> 00:05:41,960 Everything was making me cry. 84 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:43,960 I cried because I had to go to work. 85 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:45,480 I cried because it was raining. 86 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,120 I just cried. 87 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,920 The sobbing was coming from somewhere inside of me, somewhere I've never felt. 88 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:52,920 End quote. 89 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,840 When Carolyn gets into work, there's a message waiting for her from Nancy. 90 00:05:57,840 --> 00:06:01,800 Nancy told her that her mom was supposed to stop by last night, but never showed up and 91 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:03,760 Nancy was beginning to worry. 92 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:09,760 Carolyn begins calling her mom and calling her pager, but Leona never picks up or calls 93 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:10,760 back. 94 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:15,480 Finally, Carolyn pages her mother that it's an emergency, hoping that this will prompt 95 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,800 a response from her mother. 96 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,200 But this too goes unanswered. 97 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:28,040 On Wednesday, October 27, Nancy and Lonnie, Leona's ex-boyfriend, go to Leona's home 98 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,440 to find that her animals have not been cared for. 99 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:36,680 Leona loved her dogs and her pets and took them everywhere, so it was not like her to 100 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,920 leave them at home alone and uncared for. 101 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,160 Nancy and Lonnie call the police who show up and they find a window that they're able 102 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:45,480 to crawl through. 103 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,240 The police find no signs of foul play inside of the home. 104 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:54,280 On Friday, October 29, Carolyn files a missing persons report. 105 00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:58,800 Carolyn has held off filing a missing persons report because her mother did have a habit 106 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:04,440 of disappearing for days at a time and Carolyn didn't want to get the police involved unnecessarily 107 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:09,960 with her mother if it could be avoided, especially if her mother had relapsed into her addiction. 108 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:14,000 Carolyn thought that once she called the police, they would jump into action, but this was 109 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:15,800 not the case. 110 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:20,200 Carolyn says, quote, I had this great hope that I would call and make the missing persons 111 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,120 report and the police would just find her. 112 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:24,400 That's what they do, right? 113 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,980 They find people, end quote. 114 00:07:26,980 --> 00:07:34,760 On Saturday, October 30th, Leona's car, the light brown 1980s GMC Jimmie, is found abandoned 115 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:36,920 at the Albertsons parking lot. 116 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,200 Nancy found the car when she was out looking for Leona. 117 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:45,120 The car was found in the morning and the manager for Albertsons believed that the car had not 118 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,320 been there the night before when the store had closed. 119 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:53,760 There were no signs of foul play outside or inside the car, but it was noted that the 120 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:58,720 outside of the car was caked in mud as if it had been driven off of a road. 121 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:04,200 Ultimately, no clues were pulled from the car that would help find Leona. 122 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:10,840 On Wednesday, November 3rd, 1999, Carolyn arrives at her mother's home in Oregon. 123 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:15,840 Since Leona was renting her home on Hall Street in La Grande, Oregon, the landlord needed 124 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,660 the November rent paid or Leona's stuff packed up. 125 00:08:19,660 --> 00:08:24,240 Since Carolyn couldn't afford her mother's rent along with her own, she arrived and began 126 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,480 packing up her mother's things. 127 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,900 When she arrived at her mother's home, she found coffee still in the pot, groceries left 128 00:08:30,900 --> 00:08:35,060 out on the counter, and a full carton of cigarettes in the freezer. 129 00:08:35,060 --> 00:08:39,120 Carolyn was nervous that as she packed her mother's things, at any moment Leona would 130 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:44,160 come through the door and be pissed that everyone was in her home boxing up her stuff. 131 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,760 When Carolyn went into her mother's room, she laid down on the bed and breathed in her 132 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:50,060 mother's scent. 133 00:08:50,060 --> 00:08:53,640 It was in this moment that Carolyn noticed her mother's purse. 134 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:59,640 Inside was her pager, her glasses, her keys, and her cigarettes. 135 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,240 Carolyn knew her mother would not leave home without these items. 136 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:08,720 While packing her home, Carolyn also finds notes all over the place that Leona had written 137 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,920 begging her ex-boyfriend to leave her alone. 138 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,840 And then the case goes cold. 139 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:22,560 It really feels as if the police don't immediately jump at this and don't take it seriously. 140 00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:29,520 We know from October 27th when the police initially go to her home and shimmy in through 141 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:35,200 the window that there's no foul play suspected per the police report. 142 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:40,920 And the police report is very thin as far as descriptions and what was going on in the 143 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,000 home and the state of the home. 144 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,360 According to Mel, the victim's advocate. 145 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:52,080 The next bit of information really comes because of the work the family has done in their own 146 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,800 investigation of the case. 147 00:09:54,800 --> 00:10:00,720 So the man the family believed to be John, the man that Leona was meeting at the Albertsons 148 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,280 parking lot, he was deported back to Mexico. 149 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,320 John has a list of aliases a mile long. 150 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:15,760 He is also known to go by John Pina Lamas, Juan Pina, Juan Pina Lamas, Juan F. Alejandro, 151 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,320 Juan F. Pina Badanda, and Juan Alejandri. 152 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,640 The family is still seeking information related to John. 153 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,760 They don't know his whereabouts today, if he's alive or dead. 154 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,760 So any information related to John is helpful and we're going to be posting pictures of 155 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,280 him on our Instagram as well. 156 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:40,760 In October of 2008, Leona's family gathered to remember her and to hopefully jog the memories 157 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,080 of those in the community. 158 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:47,200 Carolyn says, quote, I'm willing to bet there are people in La Grande who have information 159 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,280 that could help bring closure. 160 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:50,720 We're ready for closure. 161 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:55,360 It's been nine years and that's too long to constantly wonder what's happening. 162 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:56,400 End quote. 163 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:00,760 Carolyn has said several times that as a child, if she snuck out in La Grande, there was going 164 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:05,000 to be at least five people calling her mother in the morning to tell her about it. 165 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:10,620 She wonders how a community that knows everything about everyone all of a sudden has not a single 166 00:11:10,620 --> 00:11:13,720 scrap of information about Leona. 167 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,080 Police at this time say they are still working on the case. 168 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:21,160 Sergeant John Scholl says, quote, we've done a large number of interviews and it's still 169 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:22,760 an open case. 170 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,200 We'd be happy to get more information. 171 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:26,460 End quote. 172 00:11:26,460 --> 00:11:31,000 And then Carolyn holds memorials over the years that happen again and again. 173 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:37,200 And these eventually grow into big rallies for missing and murdered indigenous women. 174 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:43,000 But in December of 2008, Carolyn says, quote, I'm ready to find answers. 175 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,440 She deserves to be brought home. 176 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,400 She deserves to rest in peace. 177 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:51,880 I would like someone to be held accountable, but I'll just start with finding her. 178 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:52,880 End quote. 179 00:11:52,880 --> 00:12:00,240 And then in 2021, Lani, Leona's ex-boyfriend, took a polygraph test and passed. 180 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:05,320 Lani is not a person of interest at this time, but nobody has been ruled out in this case, 181 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,260 according to police. 182 00:12:07,260 --> 00:12:10,280 Anything and everything is still a possibility. 183 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:15,680 Over the years, rumors have reached the family that Leona was murdered and placed in a hole 184 00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:22,360 on a mountainside, either on Mount Emily, the Minam Mountain, or the High Valley region, 185 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,960 which are all surrounding La Grande, Oregon. 186 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:32,720 So if you know anything about Leona's disappearance in 1999 or her whereabouts today, please call 187 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:40,040 the La Grande police at 541-963-1017. 188 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:47,800 And the sources for today come from NPR, The Doe Project, Leona's family's GoFundMe pages, 189 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:55,920 Seattle Met, the Facebook page, Finding Leona Kinsey, The Observer, and Mel, the victim's 190 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:01,600 advocate who works closely with Carolyn and her family, and of course, Carolyn DeFord. 191 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,280 So that is the case of Leona Kinsey. 192 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,700 Thank you for sharing this case. 193 00:13:09,700 --> 00:13:18,240 It's one that I have heard of before, and it's one that I couldn't forget about because 194 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:26,080 of the circumstances always, you know, but specifically how little was done. 195 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,000 That was something that I remembered significantly. 196 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,280 Yeah, this case has really been kept alive by Carolyn. 197 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,720 She's done the work to get it out in the media. 198 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:42,720 I had a really hard time finding newspaper stories from the time that this event occurred 199 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,040 just because there really wasn't any coverage done. 200 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:51,280 There seemed to be a little bit done in The Observer, but I couldn't access their archives 201 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:52,960 that far back. 202 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:53,960 Yeah. 203 00:13:53,960 --> 00:14:00,680 Again, it's like shocking and heartbreaking because it was 1999, right? 204 00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:03,280 Like that's not that long ago. 205 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:09,320 And I think chances are if you are a listener, you have an awareness around missing and murdered 206 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,320 indigenous women. 207 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:17,200 It's known that way, unfortunately, for a reason. 208 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:25,160 Because these cases, just because of marginalization and racism and institutionalized, so many 209 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:31,320 things, these people, these women are failed over and over again. 210 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,360 And it feels tricky. 211 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:42,200 I'm like, what do I say besides just say her name more and talk more about the case? 212 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:52,160 And I feel like she was a struggling addict too, which I know it's such a stigma. 213 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:59,160 Me being a recovering addict myself, I've watched people's minds change about me within 214 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,320 a moment after I say it. 215 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:09,200 And addiction is unfairly present in the lives of a lot of indigenous women. 216 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,200 It's like a byproduct of the environment that they're living in. 217 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,900 And I can understand some of that. 218 00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:25,800 So it's one word, to describe someone that way and to know that that's in part why her 219 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,320 case was discarded is sad. 220 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,520 Or I guess that's my opinion. 221 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:32,520 You know? 222 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:33,520 I don't know. 223 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:34,520 Do you agree with me? 224 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:39,640 Like, do you think that that was a focal point or a descriptor? 225 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:47,560 Yeah, I think it's the fact that Leona had struggled with addiction and might have possibly 226 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:53,760 been active in her addiction during this time or during the time of her disappearance. 227 00:15:53,760 --> 00:16:00,360 I think gave the police permission to not care. 228 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:07,620 And with her behavior in the past of possibly falling off the grid for a few days, not answering 229 00:16:07,620 --> 00:16:14,800 the phone, not calling people back, I think that further gave police comfort and like, 230 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:16,740 well, this is normal. 231 00:16:16,740 --> 00:16:21,280 She does this, she disappears, she's an addict, she'll be back. 232 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,960 But she never was back. 233 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:31,520 And from the beginning, like her best friend, Nancy, raised the alarm immediately and started 234 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,440 contacting people because she knew something was wrong. 235 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:40,880 She knew that even in addiction, she should be able to find Leona. 236 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:41,880 And she couldn't. 237 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,520 She should be able to get a hold of her. 238 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:48,760 Carolyn knew that like her mother would call her back if she said, it's an emergency 911 239 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,080 on her pager. 240 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:51,080 And she didn't. 241 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:57,600 So clues from the very beginning that this was not just addiction, that this was something 242 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,960 else, that she was truly missing. 243 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:08,600 And even if it was, I know this strays a moment away from exactly on topic, but like the fact 244 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:14,700 that that's the response because, you know, as I know, and you thank you for being there 245 00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:22,280 for me in my recovery, addicts when they're relapsing are at their like most, most vulnerable. 246 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:28,800 Like the response, like culturally, communally should be like all hands on deck. 247 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,560 Like this person needs support. 248 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:39,040 Yeah, I mean, this one, like I feel like I know I say it every episode. 249 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:43,840 Like I know that I become emotional and like talking about these cases. 250 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,240 And of course I do, you know, I'm a person. 251 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,600 It reminds me of like pieces of paper like ripped up and just like flowing through the 252 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:57,040 wind, you know, and that it's like a privilege for me to like realize like I'm like lost 253 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:02,600 and like hopeless bump bumping into like trying to talk to you about this and that like, from 254 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:07,780 what I can like maybe understand just like culturally and communally, like feeling that 255 00:18:07,780 --> 00:18:09,800 all the time. 256 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:14,200 You know, it feels palpable and it's like just heartbreaking. 257 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:19,960 Yeah, there is an epidemic in this country of missing and murdered indigenous women and 258 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:29,520 children and people because of the jurisdictions of tribal police, but then county and state 259 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:38,400 and federal, they, it all gets like convoluted and swept under the rug, essentially. 260 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:45,560 Yeah, and nationally, indigenous people are just, it's not that they're reported missing 261 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,920 less, but it's just their numbers aren't getting reported nationally. 262 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:56,520 So like the NamUs database that has like all the missing people, you know, in the United 263 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,880 States, the active missing person cases in the United States. 264 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:06,440 After like, I believe in 2016, they did like an investigation and found that they like 265 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:11,240 indigenous people weren't getting uploaded into that database at the rate that they were 266 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:12,800 going missing. 267 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:19,600 So it's just a failing on the government to indigenous people, which has always been the 268 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:24,760 history of that relationship, for lack of a better word. 269 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:31,160 And Leona is one of these women who has been long term missing with no resolution. 270 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:38,960 And because of her experience as her daughter, Carolyn has taken this and has really changed 271 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:45,200 the conversation nationally about missing and murdered indigenous women and is being 272 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,320 truly a beacon of change in Washington state. 273 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:54,800 There's been a lot of changes, including having an alert for when an indigenous person goes 274 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,520 missing in the state, similar to like an amber alert. 275 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:04,160 Like, I feel like you could trace all of those origins like back to Carolyn, ultimately. 276 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:10,720 And I know Leona would be so proud of her daughter for using her voice and speaking 277 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,880 up and fighting on this. 278 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:19,520 There's a story that I found that Carolyn tells a lot about her mom of when Carolyn 279 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,640 was in school and a girl wanted to fight her, but Carolyn wouldn't get out of the car to 280 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:24,640 fight her. 281 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,100 And when her mom found out, she was like, you didn't get out of the car. 282 00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:33,480 So it was like, that was like very much their personalities where Leona was like bold and 283 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:38,360 brash and Carolyn like seemed to sit back more in her youth. 284 00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:45,160 But I would argue now that like, Carolyn is bold and brass, just like her mother and like 285 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,440 is a force to be reckoned with, just like her mother. 286 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,400 Oh, yeah. 287 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:55,000 I'm glad that we are talking about her today. 288 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,000 It's a case that can't be mentioned enough. 289 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:05,640 She is a human being that like cannot be mentioned, thought of, spoken about enough. 290 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:13,740 And Leona's case really has been put out because of Carolyn like, and because of Mel advocating 291 00:21:13,740 --> 00:21:16,720 for Leona's story to be put out there. 292 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:21,200 And if you search in your podcast app for Leona Kinsey, you'll find other really great 293 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:27,480 podcasts and interviews with Carolyn that are all really great listening. 294 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,640 So if you want to know more about this case, that information is out there because the 295 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,200 family has put it out there and has made it available. 296 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:41,140 So thank you again to Carolyn DeFord for allowing us to share the story on our podcast and for 297 00:21:41,140 --> 00:21:43,160 providing us with information. 298 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:49,480 And Mel, Leona's victim's advocate, who brought this case to us through our email and who 299 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:54,240 I've had a really great opportunity to get to know. 300 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,480 And there are some other cases that Mel has also brought us that we're going to be covering 301 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:58,480 down the line. 302 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,400 So thank you for your trust in this. 303 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:06,720 And it's an honor to put Leona's name out there and to put the story out there and to 304 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,880 put it back in people's minds. 305 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:13,800 If you want to stay up to date with Leona's case specifically, I encourage you to go over 306 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:20,840 to Facebook and you can search Finding Leona Kinsey and you can follow that page there. 307 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:28,840 It's ran by Carolyn and Mel, who post the latest updates and pictures, stories, interviews, 308 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:29,840 all of that. 309 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,680 So if you want to keep up with Leona's case specifically, I recommend you go there. 310 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:39,360 And again, if you know anything about the disappearance of Leona Kinsey in 1999, you 311 00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:48,200 are encouraged to call the La Grande police at 541-963-1017. 312 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:54,400 And again, if you don't already, please follow us at Instagram at cold and missing. 313 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,600 You can find us on there and we'll have updates. 314 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,720 We don't plan on being sick and missing episodes on short notice like that again, but life 315 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,040 happens so you never know. 316 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,320 But you can stay up to date. 317 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,760 We always inform the Instagram of what's going on. 318 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:15,900 So please follow us there or you can head over to our website www.coldandmissing.com 319 00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:18,800 where we have transcripts of every episode. 320 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:25,000 So if you know someone who is hard of hearing or deaf, they can read the episodes. 321 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:30,560 All the information is out there to also join in and get the information. 322 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,000 So that's on our website. 323 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:38,400 While you're in your podcast app, if you wouldn't mind leaving us a review of five stars, a 324 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:44,440 thumbs up, a written review if you're an Apple podcast and have the time. 325 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,360 But that's all I have. 326 00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:49,000 So have a good week and stay safe, y'all. 327 00:23:49,000 --> 00:24:03,680 Stay safe, y'all.