The Ear to Asia podcast is made available on
the Jakarta Post platform under agreement between
the Jakarta Post and the University of Melbourne.
Hello, I'm Sami Shah. This is Ear to Asia. A
very interesting phenomenon these days is when
students receive more than one offer, like one
offer from UK, one offer from Australia, they
will post that on social media and ask for advice.
Which one should I pick? And then all this kind
of alumni and those college students from these
two institutions will chip in. Chinese international
students can be Australia's assets as well. They
do so much in terms of promoting Australian social
and cultural events in Chinese social media.
And they sustain transnational ties with Australian
society and economy, even after graduating from
Australia. In this episode, how Chinese international
students navigate their experience in the West.
Ear to Asia is the podcast from Asia Institute,
the Asia research specialists at the University
of Melbourne. Despite all the talk about trade
wars and other tensions, China remains the largest
source of international students worldwide. with
over 1 million students pursuing higher education
abroad in pursuit of bachelor's and postgraduate
programs as a pathway to global careers and potential
migration, or to take up scholarships and research
opportunities. Top destinations include, unsurprisingly,
the United States, where students from China
account for a quarter of all international students.
Australia also ranks high, with over 125 ,000
Chinese nationals, representing 22 % of all international
uni students. Needless to say, these large international
numbers provide a massive revenue boon for sometimes
cash -strapped institutions of higher learning.
But what is the experience of Chinese students
here in Australia? Given their large numbers
and their origins from a country that many Australians
may view with some ambivalence, how are they
being received, embraced or excluded? How are
the Chinese students themselves finding ways
to cope or thrive in the Australian social and
academic environment? and what policy measures
could best balance universities' commercial motivations
with the responsibility to provide meaningful
education and social experiences. To discuss,
I am joined by two researchers looking at the
overseas student experience in Australian higher
education. Dr. Chiu -Ping Pan is a lecturer in
Chinese Studies as well as Deputy Director of
the Centre for Contemporary Chinese Studies here
at Asia Institute. And Dr. Eric Fu is a Senior
Research Fellow at the Youth Research Centre,
part of the Faculty of Education at the University
of Melbourne. Welcome back, Xiaoping, and welcome,
Eric. Thank you, Sami, for having us. Thank you.
Eric, let's start with you. Tell us who Chinese
international students to Western universities
are, I mean, as much as we can risk generalizing
about them. The biggest group would be those
students who have completed their undergrad study
in China and then come to Australia for a master's
degree. And I think according to the statistics,
this will be the biggest group. And we also have
a significant number of students who come to
Australia to pursue their undergrad degree. We
also have some students come to Australia to
pursue a professional kind of qualifications
or degree as well. Qiu Ping, can we generalize
as to where they're from in China, what socioeconomic
backgrounds, for example, they might occupy?
Yeah, I think while some generalizations can
be made, but it's also very important to recognize
that both commonalities and diversities are very
much present within this group. So that starts
probably from talking about the socioeconomic
status. The majority of Chinese international
students come from middle and upper middle class
families. So some research suggests that probably
85 % of the students will be from this background.
Most of them will be self -funded, relying on
family support. But also, there is also a very
important trend that there is a growing minority
who receive scholarships to found their study
abroad experiences. And I myself actually belong
to the minority group there. And in terms of
the geographical origin, most of the students,
quite unsurprisingly, would be coming from China's
most developed cities around. like 80 % from
recent research. And as they indicate, 80 % will
be coming from tier one cities like Beijing,
Shanghai, or the new tier one cities. So those
who come from the lower tier cities, I think
will only account for a very small proportion.
We don't really have a very specific statistics
about this. And age -wise, while typically speaking,
they come to pursue undergraduate and postgraduate
degrees from 18 years old and in their 20s, but
there is also a growing trend of students in
their 30s who want to start their life anew and
give themselves another choice. And I want to
add to what Eric has just talked about. like
who are these Chinese international students
at Western universities. I think I would like
to add two more adjectives that I have. One is
aspirational and the other is open -minded. So
most of the students who want to do this kind
of study abroad experience are kind of aspirational,
trying to enhance their cultural or social capital
and their competitiveness. And they are also...
Eric, what are the typical pathways, though,
for these students to come to overseas studies?
And is that the same in Australia as it might
be in the US or UK, for example? by themselves
or through an educational agent to seek opportunity
to pursue a master degree overseas. That's the
I think the most common kind of pathway. Another
important pathway is because of the high competitiveness
in the kind of university recruitment exam back
in China. So a lot of parents actually just put
their children in those international high schools.
And even some of them just directly send them
to high schools in Australia just to make sure,
you know, they have this opportunity to take
the VCE or A -level or whatever kind of international
kind of university recruitment tests and then
send them to those international institutions
for higher education. Do we know if there's any
criteria that they might have for choosing which
Western nation they would preference? You know,
is making it a US versus Australia or Australia
versus the United Kingdom? What goes into that
decision making process? There's normally a kind
of traditional hierarchy in terms of these destinations.
Despite what is going on in the US, I think traditionally
US is probably the top. one kind of destinations
for international students to study. And the
second tier probably would be the UK and also
other higher educational institutions in Europe.
And then Australia is sort of, you know, in the
kind of third position in terms of their choices.
I think in terms of their considerations in choosing
these institutions, I think this international
ranking really plays a big role. Although there
are a lot of debates about to what extent this
kind of ranking can actually reflect the quality
of education in certain institutions. Given that
this international ranking is so successfully
kind of promoted in the international high education
market, I think that will be the key kind of
criteria for them to consider. accurate, both
in terms of the countries that they're applying
to, but also in terms of the universities. So
for example, if you know, to be more specific,
a prestigious university in Australia would still
rank lower in their consideration than a, you
know, mid tier or third tier university in the
US. When it comes to the decision making, it
has a more complicated kind of feature. So Several
different factors will come into play, not necessarily
all relying or determined by where the university
is located at. As Eric has just mentioned, the
international global ranking of the universities
would matter. That's one of the most important
things that students will look into. So that's
mostly related to students' aspirations to develop
their global and... their competitiveness in
the job market, so forming their culture capital
-wise. There are other several factors that will
be very important as well. Say, for example,
not all the parents that I have talked to will
favor America because America is not always considered
as safe and welcoming, particularly given Trump's
governance right now. So some of them would choose
Australia or Canada because of what they perceive
as more welcoming. and safer environment. Australia
also has an advantage because of its proximity
and also time zone alignment with China. Cost
of living will be a factor that comes into play
as well. And the other thing is actually the
migration possibilities is also something that...
students will take into consideration as well.
Although the majority of Chinese international
students choose to go back to China, but when
they come to make the decisions, they will think
about what kind of opportunities that their international
education will expose themselves to. So I suppose
that then forces us to ask the expectations of
Chinese international students, both socially
and academically, in fact, pre -departure, you
know, before that moment they get on the plane,
what do they hope for or expect? And again, I
understand I'm asking for a generalization here,
but Xiaoping, do we have any insight into that?
This also is a very important question if we
are going to actually develop a more nuanced
understanding of this group, because their expectations
and their aspirations also vary greatly. So in
terms of their personal and academic aspirations,
some of them want to actually further develop
their job market competitiveness. So we can see
a lot of Chinese undergraduates who... are who
haven't really been able to enter into the top
tier Chinese universities after the college entrance
examination. They want to go and study overseas
and get a get themselves into like a higher ranking
international university. So after graduation,
they can go back to China in Chinese job market.
They got a more impressive CV suggesting their
educational background. And in the meantime,
we also need to take into consideration that
Chinese government, local government, they are
paying more attention to recruiting overseas
trained international talents. So in some big
cities, like in Beijing and Shanghai, they will
actually provide policy incentives, like to invite
students who graduated from top universities
back to work there. So that also constitutes
as an incentive. But there are also students
who just merely want to expose themselves to
different worlds. They want to get themselves
to know the broader world and to provide themselves
with an alternative way of life. You did raise
a very interesting point there that some of the
Chinese universities they might not be able to
get into because of how prestigious they are
and how difficult they are for admission, but
they would then get into a university in the
West. And yet somehow that foreign degree is
seen as more valuable back in China. Does that
mean that some of the students are now using
this as a shortcut to get a prestigious job that
they would not be able to get if they just stayed
in China? I think this is a quite complicated
issue. So first of all, we all understand that
the college entrance examination in China is
super competitive, and it shouldn't be taken
for granted that the higher the score is, the
more talented a student is, because there are
very significant regional differences. If you
are, say, born in Beijing, there is a much higher
chance for you to enter into Peking University
than some other students. less advantageous social
economic backgrounds in a remote area. So otherwise,
I think international education, people do see
value in that because that indicates that your
ability to get in contact with people from different
cultural backgrounds, you have this kind of international
capital that... will showcase that you can tap
into opportunities that's available, that's afforded
by globalization. That's the reason why those
big cities are providing incentives to recruit
these overseas trained talents back to China.
Eric, integrating into a foreign society, grappling
with a foreign language, all while studying for
a higher degree, is a challenging prospect for
anyone. For Chinese university students here
in Australia, what does the research say about
how successful or otherwise that integration
has been? I would say in general, it's not as
they would expect, you know, in terms of... integration
academically and socially uh i i i draw on the
kind of social media comments that given by one
of the participants from my research he says
he originally planned to study his master degree
and then do a bit of part -time job and then
maybe at towards the end of his study he can
do some internship as well but the the reality
is when they come here so he finds 100 % of his
energy and effort was invested into finishing
all the assignments on time. So that's one thing.
The academic pressure that they are facing is
really immense. Can I drill down into that then?
Is the linguistic challenge larger for them,
the academic challenge in terms of Australian
academic norms and expectations, or the social
-cultural challenge? What aspect is the most
time -consuming? I think for them, their top
priority is to get the qualification. So in that
sense, adjusting to the new kind of academic
environment and also... try to meet all the requirements
a qualification requires. That's the, you know,
I think the main kind of direction for their,
you know, energy and investment into it. Q. How
different are Australian academic norms and expectations
from Chinese academic norms and expectations?
Thank you for raising this question because I
was about to add something about this. We wouldn't
be able to understand Chinese international students
well if we don't bring in the Chinese academic
higher education norms into our conversation.
So one thing I would like to point out is actually
because I used to teach in China for three years.
I would probably say that. The academic culture
and expectations is quite different in the Chinese
and Australian context. In the Chinese context,
students are more used to the form of lecturing.
So have a lecturer there delivering the course
content from the very beginning to the very end.
But increasingly, when Chinese universities have
got more overseas -trained academics working
there, it's also changing. I'm not trying to
overgeneralize here. But generally speaking,
students have this kind of tendency to believe
that they should probably not proactively speak
up unless they've got something really important
and worth sharing. And that's very different
here because students are encouraged to share
their ideas and do not care so much about how
they would be evaluated, either by their peers
or teachers, etc. So that's a very big difference.
Class participation, for example, is seen as
a hurdle requirement for many subjects. You know,
you're expected to participate in class. Indeed,
indeed. And sometimes like when they are not
really well. prepared for that, it can be a quite
daunting experience for them to start with. And
it's a learning process and they need to go through
sometimes a challenging learning curve to realize
that. One thing that I did in my class, which
turned out to be quite helpful, is actually I
share with them the university policy and guidelines
about the importance of a safe environment for
students to speak up. And also in the original,
like the first few classes, when they are discussing
just among themselves, sometimes I don't really
mind if they are talking to their peers, they
are using Chinese, but they do when they are
sharing with the classroom, they share their
findings in English. I feel that is very helpful
to make them to feel safer and to share their
ideas and more comfortable. Eric, how... Challenging
has that linguistic aspect then been. Xu Yipeng
is talking about the English presentation in
class. There have been articles about the difficulties
many Chinese students have in expressing themselves
in English with a level of fluency. The prevalence
of translation apps now might be delaying that
transition to a higher English standard. Is this
something that the students are aware of as a
problem? And are they feeling supported in it?
You're right. This is a major barrier for their
classroom engagement. So oftentimes when there
is a discussion point raised in the tutorial
group, I think Chinese students are a bit reluctant
to really participate, not simply because they
don't have a point to share or add on to the
discussion. It's mainly, you know, their... concerned
about language ability and whether they can make
their point very clearly in English. So that's
a major barrier for a lot of them. Can I add
one more thing here? I think this relates to
the question you raised earlier, Sammy, about
the difference of the academic culture in classrooms.
So when Chinese students... were learning English,
their learning process is very much dominated
by the pattern of teachers correcting them or
themselves correcting themselves. So grammatical
mistakes and also like other mistakes were accents
are huge in terms of their when they were thinking
about what they are saying so i can i relate
to that because i used to be an international
student so when i was about to speak up my heart
would be pounding and i will be like thinking
to myself While I'm talking, so first of all,
I need to summon my courage to speak up. And
when I finally started to speak, there are two
people in my mind. One is in charge of speaking
and the other small person there would be listening
to what is being said and then criticize myself
for it. Every single mistake I met in pronunciation
and in terms of grammar, etc. So that is also
some kind of invisible hurdles and battles that
Chinese international students are dealing with.
That's very common. How well are Chinese students
supported by the institutions here then in terms
of these challenges they face? Xiupeng? I think
that Australian universities are increasingly
aware of the need of support amongst international
students in general. So say, for example, at
the University of Melbourne, I can see a wide
range of support being created and being provided,
such as academic skill hubs, which I often refer
students to. So they will provide support with...
presentation skills, or sometimes if you bring
a piece of writing to them, they will help you
to identify problems and they can help you with
resume writing. And nowadays, there are also
mental health service that will provide low cost
and language accessible counseling as well. Career
services will be covered and also sometimes legal
and visa support will also be available. But
aside from the progress that has been made, there
are also definitely gaps that remains to be filled.
So say, for example, currently I'm working with
my students to develop a guideline for anti -scamming
support information sheet for Chinese international
students. So I was hoping that this kind of co
-designed workshops will also help to fill in
those small pieces of gaps. in terms of supporting
and helping Chinese international students. Eric,
it's not just the students. What about the lecturers,
the teachers, the tutors, the course design at
the university? How much does it take into account
the needs of the international students? I would
say I will agree with Xu Ping. A lot of improvements
have been made in the past few years, you know,
as the research evidence starting to, you know,
picking up. I would say still, the university
still have a lot of things to do. I've noticed
there are some workshops, you know, to help build
our uni staff cultural competency in terms of
dealing with students from different cultural
backgrounds. But I would say maybe these initiatives
could benefit from, you know, including some
of the students and try to, you know, hear from
them and also co -designing these kind of workshops
or capacity capacity building programs you know
wisdom that would be i think a better way to
go you're listening to air to asia from asia
institute at the university of melbourne And
just a reminder to listeners about Asia Institute's
online publication on Asia and its societies,
politics and cultures. It's called the Melbourne
Asia Review. It's free to read and it's open
access at melbourneasiareview .edu .au. You'll
find articles by some of our regular Air to Asia
guests and by many others. Plus you can catch
recent episodes of Air to Asia at the Melbourne
Asia Review website, which again you can find
at melbourneasiareview .edu .au. I'm Sami Shah
and I'm joined by Dr. Eric Fu and Dr. Chiaoping
Pan. We're talking about the experience and coping
strategies of the many Chinese international
students here in Australia. How are international
Chinese students here viewed by the local uni
staff and students? Chiaoping? This kind of perceptions
can vary greatly. Say, for example, on the one
hand, sometimes they can be framed as an issue
or sometimes as a risk, like to academic standards
in Australia, etc. So please allow me to elaborate
this a little bit. So sometimes Chinese international
students are being framed as problems because
they would be considered as like deficient in
terms of language skills their level of engagement
and they have the stereotypes of coming from
like rich families etc etc but in the meantime
what has been actually buried or overshadowed
by this generalization are what we have talked
about like the minority groups within this um
big cohort as well and in terms of like um the
on the other side there are also positive views
and institutional efforts as well so in general
i think the higher education sector in australia
is quite welcoming like being very authentic
about like the potentials that chinese international
students can bring to actually financially support
underfunded university sector and bring along
more multicultural exposures like for domestic
and other international students here as well.
So that kind of underpins universities' efforts
to foster inclusion through policy and programming
as well. Eric, what can you tell us about the
well -being and psychological challenges for
these students? What are some common reported
issues? I think the main challenge for them is
because they are facing quite a big difficulty
in making friends and, you know, establish that
kind of social network in the host society. So
in that sense, that is a big kind of well -being
concern for this group. I've talked to students
who really struggle, especially during the COVID
period. in terms of having a social life and
having a few friends, you know, to talk to when
they feel really stressed. So that is really
have a big impact on their general well -being.
Jiuping, have they been able to find ways to
thrive and engage positively? I definitely do
believe so. What I have been observing and what
I would like to do further research about is
actually the creative ways for students to self
-organize and to address problems they commonly
face and tackle challenges they commonly face
and to thrive more positively. So actually, if
you walk along the Swanstone Street and to Federation
Square, from time to time you can see more Chinese
international students' presence there, not merely
as consumers for the bubble tea shops. but also
as they are. There are music players, there are
dancers, and there are even Chinese rappers who
are Chinese international students. So they are
finding creative ways to showcase their cultural
identity, their cultural background, etc. And
also there are, say for example, in the case
of University of Melbourne, there are increasingly
more student groups formed by Chinese international
students. Some are focusing on tackling problems
here in Australia. Some are also organizing about,
say, being volunteer teachers in remote areas
in China. Some are focusing on academic integration
and also career -wise progression, etc. So I
think that is a really vibrant area. You can
see different efforts being put into advancing
their own welfare. One of the aspects of being
an international student that is often advertised,
promoted and talked about is the freedom that
you have as a student traveling away from your
home. However, how does the potential for political
pressure or risk of surveillance from Chinese
authorities color that experience of mainland
Chinese students here? How much freedom do they
actually have? Eric? That's a sort of thorny
topic to really talk about. So people would think,
okay, when they come overseas, they're exposed
to this kind of liberal society. They have access
to a whole lot of different information that
they couldn't access before. But I would say,
from my research at least, students are more
likely to become more kind of critical. citizen
with a kind of global view with them so they
grow up in a kind of authoritarian kind of society
and then they also used to you know different
kind of media context and then they come out
and with a kind of assumption that we these stepping
into a free media world but then they will soon
figure out all the lots of the media reports
you know in the in the english media mainstream
media are still more or less you know biased
as well. So to that degree, and then they will
probably try to find the middle way, you know,
to really critically engage both sides of the
media sphere and probably become more critical
in terms of having their own views. Jerry Peng,
are the students that you engage with, are they
fearful of surveillance? Are they fearful of
political pressure? Is it something that is even
entering their concern set? Actually, I think
in my class, one thing that has been really helpful
to encourage people to speak up is I would emphasize
that the university policy of creating a safe
environment and for free speech. So I always
emphasize that. And when you have created a safe
classroom environment, we'll be surprised to
see how actually different ideas will be brought
about to enrich the classroom. But in the meantime,
I kind of feel like the discussions about censorship
in China is also actually undermining the credibility
of what Chinese students are saying as well,
because it creates this kind of environment in
which when Chinese international students are
critical about Chinese government, they will
be considered as they have integrated. and they
have mastered the skill of critical thinking,
and they are more like us now. And when they
are sharing the genuine kind of recognition or
the sense of pride in China's progress and development,
sometimes that can be actually suspected, like
that might be a result of being brainwashed,
or maybe just being politically naive unless
proven otherwise. So I kind of think it's concerning.
thing to always frame Chinese students primarily
as censored subjects because that actually fundamentally
positions themselves as different from Western
students, not just culturally, but also ideologically
and intellectually. The students don't just exist
in Western countries. Their families don't just
exist back in China, but all of them also exist
in online and digital spaces. So how do the online
or digital lives of Chinese international students
play into their experience as students in the
West then? Eric? As I just said, you know, social
media, they have both sides, English social media
and also Chinese digital media as well. they
have these tools and also they've been navigating
the Chinese internet, you know, maybe since they,
you know, go to high school, you know, and they
have a very kind of established kind of skill
set to really navigate their media sphere to
be engaged in different sorts of social, political
and cultural kind of participation and activities.
I think Chinese social media still play a key
role. for them to navigate their life in the
West. I think a typical example I could give
is they start from their decision to choose the
destination of their study. They will browse
social media and they will see a lot of social
media posts made by students who are already
studying overseas. They will get access to the
firsthand experience of them studying at a certain...
institution and a certain destination. So that
is an important reference. And a very interesting
phenomenon these days is when students received
more than one offer to study overseas, like one
offer from UK, one offer from a university in
Australia, they will post that on social media
and asking for advice, you know, which one should
I pay? And then, you know, All these kind of
alumni and also current students from these two
institutions will chip in and share their experiences.
And then that really shapes their decision in
terms of study destinations. And also when they
arrive in Australia, again, social media plays
a huge role for them to really get necessary
information to navigate their life. And also
they join different WeChat groups, you know,
to get information about how to choose a subject.
And, you know, the workload of each subject that
entails, you know, all these things and also
get suggestions and advices from previous students,
you know, how to navigate their academic life
as well. It's no secret that Australian and other
Western institutions recruit large numbers of
overseas students for the revenue. that they
bring in. So Eric, how should universities have
balanced their commercial motivations with the
responsibility to provide meaningful educational
and social experiences? At the moment, I think
the Thai education institutions are not really
fulfilling that kind of promise to really provide
a very meaningful and valuable educational experience
for these students. I think one thing... that
is really notable is a lot of the students complain
on social media says, okay, I thought I was studying
in a foreign university. And then when I go to
class, you know, maybe 70, 80 % of the students
are actually from my home country, you know,
and this kind of, you know, and also they oftentimes
learn, you know, course materials that is really
hopefully not related to their previous kind
of life experience. So I taught a subject in
the Faculty of Arts, you know, it's mainly about
media and society, the relationship between media
and society. And a lot of those course materials
are based on the media content in the Western
society, you know, TV drama, music, and film,
all these things. I would assume a lot of the
Chinese students would have very limited kind
of knowledge about. So it's become very difficult
for them to really relate their previous life
experience with the content they're really studying.
Xiaobing, I saw you nodding there. What do you
think about that challenge for universities to
balance commercial motivations with their responsibilities?
I think we have to actually discuss this problem.
in a more historically informed way. I would
like to draw upon Professor Greg McCarthy and
Professor Xianling Song's research on Australian
higher education. So they have actually pointed
out several concerning trends that has been underpinning
the development of Australian higher education.
One problem is, of course, that what we have
mentioned about massification, like the large
inflows of international students. might raise
an issue about learning and teaching quality.
And the second is the reliance on international
students' revenue, which is something that you
have talked about. Associated with that is actually
the fact that the government's support for the
higher education sector is far from enough from
supporting the functioning and operation of the
higher education sector. And the third is demoralization
and insecurity of academic labor, what they call
as proletarianization of the academic labor.
And also there is the demise of the principles
of education, securitization of research collaboration,
etc. The point that I would like to make here
is actually when we talk about the dilemma faced
with commercialization and quality, we need to
think about what alternative sources and pathways
are there for the universities to achieve, to
ensure high quality education can be provided.
So I think that in today's political discussion,
we can see a lot of debates about international
student cap. The higher education, international
education, I think has... actually being blamed
for a lot of social problems that's actually
beyond its capability to solve and also which
are actually not originated from the sector itself.
So I would consider that when we talk about the
problems, we need concerted efforts, not merely
from the higher education sector, but also the
government, the policymakers. And say, for example,
if we are... if we are talking about the housing
crisis, we need to have researchers input as
well, like to what extent are the problems being
caused by international students? And when it
comes to the teaching quality, for example, to
what extent is because of the explosion of international
students? And to what extent it's because of
the neoliberal trends and love like the higher
education that has been going on for decades?
And to what extent it might has to do with on
the fact that academic jobs are no longer that
secure. A lot of university teachers are themselves
facing challenges, the precarious working environment,
et cetera, et cetera. So there are no simple
answers to that, but I think I've got more questions
than answers here. Sorry, Sami. Well, that does
actually lead rather perfectly into my final
question, which I was going to come to you first,
Shupeng, is what policy changes would you recommend
to foster more genuine inclusion and success
for Chinese students in Australian higher education?
Is there any specific things that you can see
as solutions that already could be put in place
right now? I think in terms of that, I would
like to bring two initiatives that National Foundation
for Australia -China Relations has been doing.
One is they have got a new scholarship plan for
engaging Chinese international students to learn
more about Australian society. And that's a more
recent initiative. And there is also an old one,
which we have been actually... honored to get
the funding to support. So that initiative is
about holding the My Study and Life in Australia
short video contest. So I think underpinning
these two initiatives are very strong suggestions
made on the part of the government saying that
Chinese international students, they are welcomed.
They are welcome to learn more about Australia.
They are welcomed to articulate and share their
experiences. thing we can do at this moment is
actually to make this kind of gesture more explicit.
This is not merely because that America is doing
a terrible job at this time, indicating that
they are not welcomed, they are politicized,
etc, etc. But also because that Chinese international
students can be Australia's assets as well. They
do so much in terms of promoting Australian way
of life, promoting Australian social and cultural
events in Chinese social media. And they sustain
transnational ties with Australian society and
economy, even after graduating from Australia.
maybe beyond their graduation, all those should
be framed in a more positive light to shape our
understanding. And probably it will be a good
starting point if we can jump out of the stereotypes
for the students being censored on subjects,
being brainwashed, and even become source or
means for foreign political interference, that
kind of thing. Eric, same question for you then.
What policy changes or broader societal measures
would you recommend to foster more inclusion
and success for Chinese students? I would say
the first key would be participation. So I think
Chinese students need to be acknowledged. You
know, they put great effort, you know, to come
overseas to get this education. So their presence
on our campus, in our society should be. sufficiently
acknowledged. They should be acknowledged as
part of our broader cultural society at least.
And then also in terms of initiatives or policies
that can really help in them, I think it could
be helpful to really include them in this process
of policymaking or any kind of program designing.
you know, to really listen to them and really
figure out what they really want and need. And
another point I want to make probably to the
broader society is we need to take a more broader
view about this diversity and inclusion kind
of initiative in our society. We talk a lot about
this initiative, but oftentimes we take this
in a very kind of narrow -minded way. So, you
know... We tend to focus either on one -dimensional
ways of framing this term, diversity and inclusion.
It could be implemented out, understood in a
whole lot of different dimensions, different
ways. In that case, I would say, drawn on the
story told by a student, I said, I asked him,
is there a moment that you really feel that you
belong to Melbourne? He told me, he says, you
know, when the people here don't treat me as
an outsider, you know, one day he walked in the
street and someone just come to him and ask for
directions. And that moment he feels, you know,
he belongs to that place. And also maybe some
random person just sitting next to him on the
bench in the park and started a conversation,
a genuine conversation, you know, rather than
just treating them as the other. someone that
is fundamentally different from them, I think
that will probably be a good way to go. Our guests
have been Dr. Chio Ping Pan of Asia Institute
and Dr. Eric Fu of the Youth Research Centre
of the Faculty of Education, both from the University
of Melbourne. Thank you both. Thank you, Sami.
Thank you. Be sure to keep up with every episode
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find the show. And please help us by spreading
the word on your socials. This episode was recorded
on the 30th of April 2025. Producers were Eric
Van Bemmel and Kelvin Param of Profactual .com.
Ear to Asia is licensed under Creative Commons,
copyright 2025, the University of Melbourne.
I'm Sami Shah. Thanks for your company.