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Brandon Mortini, commercial pilot and flight instructor and I'm Carson Vasquez.

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I'm a private pilot and you're listening to the aviation mentors podcast sponsored by

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Stratis Financial.

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Buckle up because the aviation mentors are taking off.

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Welcome back everybody.

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The great episode of the aviation mentors podcast.

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Thanks for joining us today.

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I know last week we had a couple awesome episodes and we had a test pilot on the podcast which

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was absolutely phenomenal.

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Carson actually lined that up even though I'm friends with him for longer.

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It was kind of weird.

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But it worked out really nice and we had a great time talking with Kevin.

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So hopefully you guys really enjoyed it.

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It was fantastic just to talk airplanes and especially talk ICON A5.

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I just found out my ICON is going to need the new rocket put into it I think next month

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actually so ICON just told me I'm going to get a real nice repair bill for that.

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So it's down even longer for maintenance?

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Yeah it's going to be down another month for maintenance I think.

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But I'm trying to get him convinced to let me repair it in Long Beach so I don't have

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to fly it literally across the US to Florida to get the rocket replacement done.

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So that would be the only downside.

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Well we can both keep losing weight so we can fly that thing together.

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Yeah exactly, exactly.

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So since last week I'm down another pound and a half so I'm going to go for it.

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So today though we have an amazing guest for you.

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His name is Justin Sullivan.

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Justin is the CEO of Ajax Jets.

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He's got a long history of aviation entrepreneurship.

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He started as a charter broker.

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Now he owns a fully integrated 135 operation.

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He also has a 145 repair station which is a maintenance facility that's regulated by

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the FAA.

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It's very difficult to get and hold on to by the way.

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I've worked on that process for a long time so I know quite a bit about it.

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And he even has a charter business now.

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He has a very unique business model that delivers incredible value to the owners in his company

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system.

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He's told me about some of the jets that they work with and how it's beneficial for their

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owners and for the clients.

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So I'm excited to kind of hear a lot about that as well as how he thinks differently

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on his fleet of classic business jets.

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Welcome to our podcast Justin.

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Thanks so much for being with us.

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Brandon Carson, great to be here guys.

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Thanks for having me.

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Yeah, it's a pleasure meeting you Justin.

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I know Brandon set this one up and I haven't gotten to meet you until this morning.

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But can you tell us about how you got started with aviation?

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That's the first thing we always ask people on our podcast.

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Yeah, I graduated college and went straight into tech sales.

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So I worked for IBM for a couple of years and then another big computer company.

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And there's a big tech downturn in the early 2000s and a bunch of my colleagues left our

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company in Boston to go work for a company called Sentient Jet, which is the 800 pound

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gorilla, the inventor of the jet card.

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And they made a career shift.

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I had never heard of this industry.

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I'd obviously seen private planes at the airport, but just got very excited about the industry.

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I knew that I could add a lot of value and build a great business doing this.

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I'd done a lot of entrepreneurial things up to that point.

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And I talked myself into actually interviewed with Sentient as a sales rep, but talk myself

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into a position as VP of sales with a dot com startup.

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So a company that was that erased a lot of venture capital and was going to take the

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on demand charter space by storm.

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So I worked there for a few years, built up a very sizable book of business, high net

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worth clients, athletes, entertainers, a lot of companies.

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And just really enjoyed what I was doing.

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As I mentioned, I've been very entrepreneurial in the past.

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And there was an inflection point about three years into my tenure where that company that

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I was working with sold itself to Sentient Jet.

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So I was a bit at a decision point and decided to start my own business.

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So I've been a charter broker, which is really like a glorified travel agent whereby we have

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high net worth clients and people who desire to fly on private aviation and they need to

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take a trip.

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They need to fly from Bedford, Massachusetts to Van Nuys, California.

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And the job of a charter broker is to represent that client's interests in the marketplace

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of aircraft.

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So part 135 airplanes that are duly authorized and have economic authority from the FAA to

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operate.

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Those are air carriers that charter brokers really serve as the intermediary with and

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did that independently for a number of years.

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About five years ago, maybe a little longer than that, I launched a parallel career path.

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I've been very enamored with the airplane ownership management side of the business.

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And really as a charter broker, I feel that it gives, in hindsight, it has certainly proven

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this out.

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It gives me and my company a great leg up and a competitive advantage in having our

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own proprietary fleet of planes that we can dispatch for our clients in addition to the

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brokered suite of thousands of aircraft all over the world.

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So I launched this parallel career path working with a company that really pioneered the business

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model that I'm in, which is taking older planes, putting nice new interiors into them and getting

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top rate charters.

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Did that for several years.

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And ultimately, it was time for me to do my own thing.

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Raised a couple million bucks from some clients of mine who wanted to make a strategic investment

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in this industry and acquire a part 135 air carrier about two years ago.

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And that actually brings up a great point.

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Everyone asked me how somebody can get into aviation or how you can build a business in

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aviation because there's a lot of entrepreneurs in the world or people that want to be entrepreneurs.

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And I'll tell you this, the big thing between an entrepreneur and just an average person

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is an entrepreneur gets it done.

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They are a doer.

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They have an idea and they execute on that idea, which it sounds like you did.

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And everyone always asked me at least, and I'm sure people have asked you, well, how

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do you get started in the industry?

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I don't know how to get started.

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I don't know any of these.

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Honestly, you need an anchor client.

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And it sounds like that's what you had.

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You had a couple anchor clients.

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I know somebody who owns a couple FBOs.

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I asked how they got started.

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They said, I got an anchor client because unless you have millions of dollars up front,

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you have to get an initial client who believes in you as a person and believes that you will

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execute on those ideas in entrepreneurship, which is amazing.

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Sounds like you've done that, which is pretty fantastic.

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And I kind of did the same thing.

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Everyone's kind of heard some of my story in the background where I've gone after I

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had to get a loan from three different people on one airplane so I can buy an airplane.

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And that was I was my own anchor client, actually.

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But it kind of worked out.

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I know that earlier you mentioned a jet card.

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For some of our listeners, they might not know what a jet card is.

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Can you explain what a jet card is and what it does for H&Ws or high net worth individuals?

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Certainly.

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Most of our business is charter.

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So it's clients who desire to fly, in that example, from Bedford, Massachusetts to Van

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Isle, California.

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They get a quote.

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The quote is $35,000 one way.

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They book that transaction and do that trip.

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They have no further commitments.

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And the company doesn't have any other commitments beyond that trip.

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A jet card is a pre-funded debit card that's either in a cash denomination.

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So it's $100,000 jet card or a quarter million dollar jet card.

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And that entitles the owner to access aviation on a predetermined occupied hourly rate schedule.

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So for one of our planes, an occupied hourly rate would be about $12,000 per flight hour.

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And it's a very bite size, maybe not bite size, but it's a product that people can purchase

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that they can set it and forget it.

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They buy that jet card.

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They buy that membership.

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And now they have one single point of contact.

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And they don't have the challenge or inconvenience of moving money back and forth every time they

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want to fly.

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The concept was pioneered by Ascension Jet membership back in the early 2000s.

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And the industry has really gone through a lot of changes.

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At one point, it was the thing to do.

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You may remember the Marquis Jet Card, which was a 25 hour access point into NetJets.

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The challenge with jet cards from an operator standpoint is that it creates an entitlement.

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So somebody, if you have too many people who have entitlements to be able to call out a

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jet and they all want to do it on a peak day or on a day of limited availability, it creates

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a lot of operational pressure onto whoever sold that jet card.

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So we've done it in the past.

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And frankly, it caused us a lot more problems than it created opportunities.

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And we've gotten away from that.

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And the only people who have a contractual entitlement to call out a plane with us are

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the owners of the plane.

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So every plane that we manage is owned by a different high net worth family or corporation.

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That's neat.

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I know you said that you brokered jets.

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So have you ever purchased a jet yourself?

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And if you have, what was that like buying your first jet?

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I know I've always wanted to own a jet.

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It's on my bucket list and it's actually on my 10 year goal list.

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I will own a jet.

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I will tell you that.

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That will be for sure.

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But what was that like buying your first jet?

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I mean, it had to have been kind of an exhilarating experience, especially being in aviation.

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Well, it was pretty cool.

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I was working, as I mentioned, in that parallel career path where I didn't have my own 135.

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So I was managing planes and leasing them to other part 135s.

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And I saw the cash flows that the Falcon 50s generate.

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And back in the day, there's a lot of operational efficiencies and things that you can do with

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Falcon 50s that you can't do, frankly, with any other business jet.

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And back in 2015, 16, that was a million dollar asset.

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So pretty shocking to be able to get into a nine seat super midsize jet that has coast

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to coast range for about a million dollars.

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I had a lot of confidence in it just from seeing the cash flows of the jets that I was

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managing.

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And that gave me the confidence to go and do it.

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Quick disclaimer, I'm actually I do great, but I wouldn't call myself a high net worth

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individual.

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So I had to do some creative financing and some different things to make that jet purchase

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happen.

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So quick aside, I happen to know the owner of this plane.

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And he was living in Boston, a couple of towns over from me.

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We've become friends and the jet was more than he wanted to.

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He had done everything he needed to do with jet, except he wanted to be able to take it

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couple times a year to between Boston and West Palm Beach, maybe 30 hours a year.

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So in arranging this purchase, he gave me a bit better deal than he otherwise might

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have because I gave him a cut rate deal on for the next three years on his flights between

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Boston and West Palm Beach.

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So he was able to get what he wanted.

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And I was able to get myself into a plane by frankly, mortgaging my house.

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Wow.

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And that is crazy.

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But it's not that crazy.

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I mean, for you to be an entrepreneur, you got to be crazy.

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I'll tell you that for sure.

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All of us entrepreneurs are absolutely bonkers and nuts because we do things like that.

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And we bet it all on ourselves.

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And if you bet on yourself, you will win, I guarantee it, because you put it all out

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there and it sounds like you're winning.

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And it sounds like that deal, which was very creative.

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It worked out for you so far.

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I know that every time that somebody wants to structure a big deal like this, I went

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to a conference a couple of weeks ago in Key Largo, I believe it was.

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And when I went there, I met with a lot of bankers who are in the private jet market.

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I also met appraisers in the private jet market.

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Almost everybody was in the private jet market that was there.

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And it was really a fantastic show to go to or a conference to go to because I learned

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how creative these deals get.

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I mean, I was really kind of surprised with I was here in terms of only like a 40% loan

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to value.

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That's all they were giving them 40%.

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And they had a three year note with a balloon payment at the end.

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I was like, what is how does this even make any sense?

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But I guess for some people, it does.

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It sounds like a hard money law.

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It did sound like a hard money loan, but it was from like a major bank.

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I just was in the room and I heard it in like the background.

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But it sounds like a hard money loan because I mean, I've seen hard money loans all the

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time.

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And actually, I wouldn't even take that deal.

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So there had to have been some reason behind it.

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I just don't know what it was.

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But maybe I'll figure it out one of these days.

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But but yeah, yeah, I'll share with you that financing these jets is tough.

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Most airplane finance companies don't want to touch something that's 15 years, it's older

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than 15 years old.

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And our oldest jet is from 1981, Ronald Reagan's first term.

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And our youngest jet is 96.

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It's a Falcon 900 and 1993 Falcon 50.

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You get into these planes, they have brand new interiors, they have updated avionics,

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it looks and feels like a brand new piece of equipment.

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But that doesn't matter for airplane finance companies.

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And you know, there's a lot a lot to unpack that the market for used executive business

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jets is still pretty hot.

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I thought it would after the the tax incentive of the cares act tax incentive where you get

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100% bonus depreciation that expired at the end of the year.

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I thought that would really pop this this balloon.

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But it hasn't.

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And the market for Falcon 50s, there's Falcons in general, they're just very well built machines

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that have almost an infinite airframe life.

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There are Falcons flying around from the 70s.

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And our planes from the 80s and 90s will still be flying 25 years from now.

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We do the continuous airworthiness programs of these planes.

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I was going to ask you what do you think the business jet market will be like in the next

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year?

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I know I'm hearing and when I say the business jet market, I don't just mean the sales part

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of it.

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I mean, the usability of it, how of the high network net worth individuals utilizing the

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private jet market and business jet market in the future, because everyone says this

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recession is looming, supposedly 80% chance of happening the end of this year, Federal

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Reserve keeps raising rates, all these things are still happening.

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So I'm kind of curious on where do you think it'll be in the next year?

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And I asked mostly for the reason because a lot of our listeners are pilots are soon

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to be pilots.

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They want to know what's going to happen in our marketplace.

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Because if people aren't using planes, then they're not going to be flying.

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And obviously, they want to be flying.

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So where do you see that the business jet market is going to be in the next year?

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Well, if you look at the big OEMs like Bombardier, Gulfstream and Textron, they've planned their

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supply chains out for the next five years.

264
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And they're forecasting over 10% growth year over year in their new plane builds.

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They've got a backlog of orders that stretch out more than 18 months.

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And companies like NetJets and FlexJet, I've heard they may be opening up some slots for

267
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,160
fractional owners at the end of this year.

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00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:16,120
But pretty tight, pretty tight availability at that top end of the market, people who

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00:17:16,120 --> 00:17:25,680
are buying $65 million Falcon 8Xs and $30 million Challenger 350s directly from the

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OEM.

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We focus on a different slice of the market.

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We're working with classic business jets that have been mostly depreciated by the previous

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owners.

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So a Falcon 50 that we operate, it's a $2 to $3 million asset right now compared to

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a $30 million asset for a comparable brand new super mid-sized jet.

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So what I want to know is where are all these, most of these owners who are buying these

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latest generation planes, they are not first time airplane owners.

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00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:10,400
They're working on their third, fourth, fifth investment and as their lifestyle continues

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to move up the food chain, they want more expensive toys.

280
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So I think that that's going to leave a very big hole in the market for more classic business

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00:18:25,980 --> 00:18:33,520
jets and companies like ours that specialize in not only operating, but really maintaining,

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providing the continuous airframe maintenance on these classic airframes.

283
00:18:40,740 --> 00:18:47,640
That's going to be a real center of growth as the industry continues to evolve.

284
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:52,520
That said, you asked about the charter and the usage side.

285
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:59,880
What's happened in our business is in the last, after COVID in the 18 months since the

286
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:11,280
initial shock, our market has continuously moved up, more demand, greater pricing power.

287
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:17,580
But that's due to people who don't want to fly commercially anymore.

288
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There's going to be some macroeconomic trends about how high net worth individuals and families

289
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:27,080
have done very well in the last 18 months.

290
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But it's really, in my view, do more to the consolidation in the industry.

291
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So you've got three companies, Directional, Wheels Up, and Vista Global, who acquired

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00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:45,240
seven of the largest 15 private air carriers in the last 18 months.

293
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:53,320
So companies like Travel Management, Delta Private Jets, Mountain Aviation, Jet Edge.

294
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Every one of those fleets was over 70 planes when they got acquired by those big companies.

295
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,480
And those companies are generally closed loops.

296
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So they service their own membership.

297
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:15,600
And all of that supply was taken out of the charter market, creating a supply crunch.

298
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:21,840
So you may have heard, this isn't exactly breaking news, that there's a company called

299
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Wheels Up that's having some financial difficulty.

300
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:31,720
What's funny is, while you were talking, Carson and I have our screen over to the side and

301
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:37,880
I actually was typing in for Carson to ask a question right now about what you're about

302
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:38,880
to talk about.

303
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:39,880
So that is hilarious.

304
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,960
Yeah, Justin, you're segueing from one thing to another.

305
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:43,960
It's awesome.

306
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:45,680
We were just about to ask.

307
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:46,680
Exactly.

308
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:55,040
So it's a little bit of a contrarian point of view, guys, but Wheels Up has, I don't

309
00:20:55,040 --> 00:21:01,040
know how big their fleet is, but say it's 500 planes and they're losing a million five

310
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:02,040
a day.

311
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They're about to get delisted off of the New York Stock Exchange and their CEO just quit.

312
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:16,920
I'm not making any judgments, but what's going to happen to the charter market if those 500

313
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,360
airplanes come back into the charter market?

314
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:23,360
I don't know.

315
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:28,040
Stranger things have happened.

316
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:35,680
I can't make heads or tails of buying an $8 million King Air 350i and trying to make money

317
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,760
off of it, even at $5,000 an hour.

318
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,240
It just doesn't compute to me.

319
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,920
All that debt service, all the operational expenses of carrying a plane.

320
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:55,160
So I think it's a tough business model to be owning new planes and trying to make money

321
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:56,160
by chartering them.

322
00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:03,600
We've got a lot of leverage points with classic jets and the engines alone, the engines on

323
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:12,720
Falcon 50s, you save half a million dollars a year on those engines compared to a comparable

324
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,480
Citation 10 or Citation Sovereign.

325
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:22,200
So you'd have to, and it costs 20% as much to acquire one of these Falcon 50s and Citation

326
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,320
10 or Citation Sovereign.

327
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:30,400
So if you're in business to make money, I think a Falcon 50 better move than what Wheels

328
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:31,400
Up did.

329
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:32,400
Go ahead.

330
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:38,000
So it seems like Wheels Up just has a riskier investment, but it also seems like the reward

331
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,840
is pretty good considering the size of the company.

332
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:47,160
Are you seeing a huge difference in the risk versus reward that you guys have versus what

333
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,160
Wheels Up has?

334
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,120
Obviously, it seems like things are going a little bit downhill for them, but they have

335
00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:53,120
more expensive ones.

336
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:54,120
Yeah, fundamentally.

337
00:22:54,120 --> 00:23:02,040
So it just kind of makes sense that fundamentally we're different in every respect.

338
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,400
Every one of the planes that we operate now is owned by a high net worth individual or

339
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:07,920
a company.

340
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:13,520
So we don't have any financial risk of operating them.

341
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,680
We run a pretty lean organization.

342
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,440
We don't create entitlements.

343
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:25,280
So with Wheels Up, they have 15,000 members who can call out a plane on a day's notice

344
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,720
no matter where they are in the country and have a plane show up.

345
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,960
How is that working out for them?

346
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:31,960
We don't do that.

347
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,560
We're flew in nine planes.

348
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:40,560
We stack our schedule very tightly based on the positioning of our airplanes.

349
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:45,160
So we don't have to eat a four hour deadhead across the country if we happen to be out

350
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,880
of position to take care of one of our most important clients.

351
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,800
If one of our clients needs to fly and our planes are out of position, we broker them

352
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,480
something else.

353
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,400
Nobody has an entitlement.

354
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:02,120
And we don't have to pay, even if we did have to pay the debt service on a $2 or $3 million

355
00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:08,560
Falcon 50 that's cash flow and 50 grand a month, that would be okay.

356
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,280
But we don't have to.

357
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:19,360
And not for nothing, but a $2 to $3 million investment is to everybody, the three of us,

358
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:21,440
that's a lot of money.

359
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:27,680
To the guy who's looking, who's a lifestyle private jet traveler, he probably has a net

360
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,360
worth of 50 million or more.

361
00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:40,680
And for that guy to look at making an investment that's 4X what our investment in Falcon 50

362
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,800
is, that's a big chunk of his net worth.

363
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:50,560
Whereas $2 to $3 million, it's much more bite sized.

364
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,440
Yeah, much more bite sized.

365
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,680
We can run the numbers on what we would be doing.

366
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,240
We do smaller airplanes.

367
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,440
Carson hasn't bought his first airplane yet, but he will.

368
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,120
We all do different size deals for where we're at in life.

369
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:10,800
And by the way, I looked up to see how many aircraft Wheels Up has while you guys were

370
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:11,800
talking.

371
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:16,360
And they claim to have over 1500 private aircraft.

372
00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:18,840
And that's owned and managed airplanes.

373
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,800
So that's a lot of airplanes.

374
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,600
And if 1500 airplanes went on the market, it's going to crush the marketplace.

375
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,120
I doubt that would actually happen.

376
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:30,520
They would have to get acquired, I would assume.

377
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,840
But that's pretty insane.

378
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:39,360
And speaking of 1500 airplanes, there's obviously a lot of job opportunities for pilots flying

379
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:40,680
private jets.

380
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,880
So how do you hire pilots in your part 135 operation?

381
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:50,040
Is there a difference between 135 and 91 operators?

382
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,840
Is there anything you're looking for?

383
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,880
So 135, our employees are all full time employees.

384
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,700
So our pilots are all full time employees.

385
00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:03,600
So we don't work with contractors.

386
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,640
Everybody who's flying for us has been to simulator school in the last year.

387
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,360
And they've been to simulator school.

388
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:15,960
One of the FARs is that they have to go to the simulator school under our training program.

389
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,800
So we'll have a program at CAE and another program at flight safety.

390
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,960
And when we bring a pilot on, even if they've been, so even if we're poaching them from

391
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:31,040
another air carrier and they went to school two weeks ago for a Falcon 50, we hire them.

392
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,360
They have to have to go to school again for us.

393
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:42,000
The platform that we use for pilot hiring is called climb2350.com.

394
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,480
That's the only place that we look for pilots.

395
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,380
It's free for us as an employer.

396
00:26:49,380 --> 00:26:57,100
So it doesn't cost anything and we get a very steady stream of qualified applicants.

397
00:26:57,100 --> 00:27:00,720
That seems like it's the place to be.

398
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,560
Some things have loosened up a bit in the training market.

399
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:16,040
So previously an initial Falcon 50 simulator, which is a three to four week pretty expensive

400
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,720
ordeal.

401
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,780
Those were scheduling nine months out.

402
00:27:19,780 --> 00:27:26,640
So it was very difficult for us to bring in pilots who don't already have a type rating.

403
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:32,120
And most of the pilots that we've hired in the past 18 months or two years, I guess,

404
00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:36,000
have come to us with a Falcon 50 type rating.

405
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,400
So they only have to go to an initial, or excuse me, they only have to go to a recurrent,

406
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:46,660
which is a Falcon 50, about 12 grand and five days.

407
00:27:46,660 --> 00:27:52,480
That compares to, I operate a couple Challenger 350s part 91.

408
00:27:52,480 --> 00:28:01,000
And the simulator training for those is scheduling out many more months in advance than Falcon

409
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,000
50s.

410
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,040
And the simulator training costs about 2X.

411
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:14,400
So it's another, just one more data point of why classic jets are easier to operate,

412
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,840
easier to, a quicker time to value.

413
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:24,680
And if you get somebody who kind of worth individual buys a Challenger 350, spends $30 million

414
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:31,720
on it, in order for him to get pilots without sending them to simulator training, he's going

415
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,560
to have to go poach them from net jets or flex jet or, or XO jet.

416
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,960
And he's paying those captains a quarter million dollars a year because they're really top

417
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:41,960
dollar guys.

418
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,720
Whereas Falcon pilots do not make that much.

419
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:54,640
They're well compensated, but they don't make anywhere near what the current rated captains

420
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:59,320
of the newer next generation planes make.

421
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,520
So a lot of this is also word of mouth.

422
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,960
Our planes are all over, our pilots are in FBOs, pilots have cool uniforms.

423
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:14,880
We ran a, we had a sunglass promotion with these like ultra, wish I had them here, but

424
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:20,320
ultra clear lenses that we give to all of our clients who book charters with us.

425
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,040
He's like $1,500 sunglasses.

426
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,880
And we give them to all our pilots because we want them all to look awesome.

427
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:26,880
Right.

428
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:34,000
So our pilots all have these, these very cool designer frames with, with crystal clear bullet

429
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,000
proof lenses.

430
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:40,880
And they just look like, you know, top gun fighter pilots.

431
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:46,080
So we've got to look and we've got an aura about us and it's a team that people want

432
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,320
to be a part of.

433
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,680
What are you looking for from a pilot that you want to hire?

434
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,800
You know, in terms of hours, what are you looking for?

435
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:58,360
And then what does the average kind of pay that these pilots can expect or benefits in

436
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,160
a job like this?

437
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,760
So a, we operate a floating fleet.

438
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,040
So unlike most air carriers that are based in a particular home base.

439
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:16,880
So say we're, we're, say we were in Orlando based flight department and you're only hiring

440
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,320
pilots that are within driving distance of Orlando.

441
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:22,520
That's not how we do it.

442
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,400
Our pilots live all over the country.

443
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:30,400
They can live in 50 states as long as they have access to commercial transportation.

444
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,040
And on day one of their rotation, they'll airline to their plane.

445
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,640
So their plane might be sitting in Denver and on crew rotation day, we're going to

446
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:39,920
airline two pilots there.

447
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:44,200
We're going to airline the other two pilots back to their, their homes.

448
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:51,680
And they're going to start a 14 day rotation where they stay with the plane for 14 days.

449
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:59,400
A senior captain in our program is earning $150,000 base plus benefits, including company

450
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,440
paid health insurance.

451
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,520
And SICs are really all over the map.

452
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:14,480
Somebody who's a highly qualified rated SIC that maybe has 4,000 hours of total time.

453
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,240
They could jump into a captain seat at any point.

454
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,720
That guy's probably making 120 grand plus benefits.

455
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:29,800
And somebody who is going to say we hire a Learjet pilot, put them through initial and

456
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:38,240
he's a thousand, like a thousand hours is our insurance minimum for an SIC.

457
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,560
That guy's probably making 85 grand a year plus benefits.

458
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:47,840
So that sounds like a really good kind of segue for pilots who they've gotten their

459
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:55,200
time flying as a CFI and they've flown maybe 700 hours of CFI and they want to get their

460
00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:02,120
first job instead of waiting to go to the airlines at 1500 or more at some point.

461
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,360
They can actually go to a company like yours and start making money and making a lot better

462
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:07,360
money.

463
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,240
You save a thousand hours, you get a thousand hour insurance minimum.

464
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:10,240
Yeah, yeah.

465
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:11,240
A thousand hours.

466
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,240
So we take 250, 300 for them to get their CFI.

467
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:14,880
And then after that 700 hours.

468
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:15,880
Oh, I see.

469
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:16,880
Yeah.

470
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,680
So they get to you.

471
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:19,680
They're making a lot more money.

472
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,400
I mean, 85 grand is a lot better than a lot of flight instructors make across the US.

473
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:25,400
So that'd be fantastic.

474
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:30,920
How many hours a month do you think these pilots are getting when they go and work for

475
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,840
a company like yours?

476
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:38,600
Well, a plane flies about a hundred hours a month and they're flying on it about 50%

477
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:39,600
of the time.

478
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,320
So probably 50 hours a month.

479
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,320
50 hours a month?

480
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,320
Very busy operation.

481
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,720
But you know, Falcon 50 is a superman.

482
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,680
So it flies coast to coast.

483
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,960
So in two days it could fly 10 hours.

484
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:54,960
Oh, wow.

485
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:55,960
Yeah.

486
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,040
That's a lot of flying.

487
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:04,120
Do you see a lot of turnover because of the amount of hours you're giving?

488
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:05,720
Sounds pretty good to me.

489
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,960
Do you see a lot of turnover in this industry right now?

490
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,600
I mean, I see it kind of all over the place.

491
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,080
I mean, as flight instructors, I see flight instructors come and go every six months.

492
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:21,080
So are you seeing that or are people kind of staying?

493
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,080
Mixed bag.

494
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:27,360
I mean, certainly we've lost quite a few pilots to the airlines over the years.

495
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,520
And we provide a, people like flying Falcons.

496
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,280
You know, we operate 50s and 900s.

497
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,680
It's the same type rating for a 50 and a 900.

498
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:43,040
The reason why I ask that question is I see it as an opportunity for new pilots that are

499
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:48,000
coming up, the ones who just got their flight instructor rating or just got their commercial

500
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,280
pilot rating.

501
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,920
The reason why I ask the question is so people who are listening to us, they know they can

502
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,520
go to a company like yours and there's going to be openings and there's going to be openings

503
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,560
in the near future for pilots.

504
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,060
So make sure that you're applying at these other types of companies.

505
00:34:03,060 --> 00:34:09,760
You can start flying a ton of hours very early on in your career rather than having to wait

506
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,560
till you get to 1500 and fly an airline and you got to fly in a little 172 inside the

507
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:14,560
pattern.

508
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:15,560
Go fly something cool.

509
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,240
I mean, I'd want to go fly a Falcon 50.

510
00:34:17,240 --> 00:34:18,240
That sounds awesome.

511
00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:22,920
So Justin, whenever you just need somebody to go fill a seat for an SIC, one that you

512
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,960
can just sign off, just let me know if they're coming out of John Wayne or heck, I'll go

513
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:27,960
over to...

514
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,200
Three to two and three landings and you're all set, right?

515
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:31,200
Yeah, exactly.

516
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:32,200
That's all I need, right?

517
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:33,680
I already know how it all works.

518
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,240
No, not really.

519
00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:37,880
Yeah, that's pretty neat.

520
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,320
So yeah, thanks so much for joining us today.

521
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:41,320
This was quite awesome.

522
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:42,760
I really appreciate you being here.

523
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,960
Yeah, thanks for being on with us today.

524
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,600
And you know, everyone, Justin is a great example of where aviation can take you.

525
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,560
I know we talked quite a bit about being a pilot and going to the airlines, but aviation

526
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,400
is a thriving place that businesses can just grow.

527
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,600
Whether you're going to be an entrepreneur like Justin or whether you want to be a pilot

528
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:06,560
and you want to go fly any one of these cool, cool airplanes, going from a Cessna 172 to

529
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,760
a Falcon 50 is a pretty awesome jump to go make.

530
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,560
Yeah, it absolutely is.

531
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:16,960
And Justin, for all of our listeners who would like to either possibly invest with you by

532
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:22,160
getting a jet of their own or if they're interested in becoming a pilot and working for you and

533
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,720
your company, where can they reach you at?

534
00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:30,240
What's the name of your company's website and best email to get a hold of you guys as

535
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:32,200
well?

536
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:38,480
My email address is justin at Ajax.com.

537
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,880
Our website is AjaxJets.com.

538
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:45,440
And if your audience is interested, I have a YouTube channel that's called Your Friend

539
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:54,100
with Jets, where I have dozens of videos, other podcasts like this, interviews and ideas

540
00:35:54,100 --> 00:36:00,840
with new planes that we're trying to bring to market, new ideas and my perspective on

541
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,560
things, which is obviously a bit contrarian.

542
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:05,560
That's awesome.

543
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:06,920
Well, again, thank you so much for joining us.

544
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,160
I really enjoyed talking with you.

545
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,120
I know we went a little longer than we said we would.

546
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,040
Our podcasts, typically we've been having awesome guests, so they're going a little

547
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:15,040
bit longer.

548
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,280
So everybody who's our normal listeners, I hope you guys are enjoying it as much as

549
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:20,640
we are.

550
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,080
But if you want to reach out to Carson or I, you can reach us at Twitter or Instagram.

551
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,080
For me, it's at MrMartiniGuy.

552
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,360
For Carson, it's at Carson underscore AV17.

553
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:37,520
And as always, we prefer via email, I'm Brandon at AviationMentors.com and Carson at AviationMentors.com.

554
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,580
And there's one more thing that we're looking at the climb to 350.

555
00:36:41,580 --> 00:36:46,160
This is absolutely something to go and check out if you're looking for a job in aviation.

556
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,640
And we're just looking at this website and there's so many listings that you can go

557
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,120
and go after.

558
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,720
So it's a great stepping stone, especially underway the airlines or even another program.

559
00:36:55,720 --> 00:37:00,080
But as always, as a wrap up for the day, remember, we're here to guide your aviation journey.

560
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:27,080
So fly safe and enjoy the ride.