1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,880 Hello, I'm Brandon Martini, a commercial pilot and flight instructor. 2 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:09,880 And I'm Carson Vasquez. 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:10,880 I'm a private pilot. 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,680 And we're listening to the Aviation Mentors podcast sponsored by Stratus Financial. 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:20,720 So buckle up because the aviation mentors are taking off. 6 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,840 Welcome back everybody to an amazing episode of the Aviation Mentors podcast. 7 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:30,720 Today we have a good friend of mine, Mr. Kevin Strange, and he has quite the career. 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,280 And I'm really excited that we get to put him on the episode today and kind of hear 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:40,160 all about what he started out doing, what he's worked through his entire aviation career 10 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:44,440 and what he's doing today, which you'll find out in a few minutes on why I'm so excited 11 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:45,440 to talk to him. 12 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:50,200 I've had lots of conversations about a specific subject that'll be a surprise for you in about 13 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:51,880 three or four or five minutes. 14 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,040 So thanks so much for being on today with us, Kevin. 15 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:55,040 Thank you guys. 16 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:56,040 Appreciate it. 17 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:57,040 Yeah. 18 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:58,840 Thanks for being on, Kevin. 19 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:03,360 And you know, I think everyone listening, one of the flights we talked about, I think 20 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:08,240 during our emergency episode was the one that you and I did where your kid was fake being 21 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,600 sick and he got me good. 22 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,000 And that's something Brandon, I didn't even tell Brandon about when we did that flight. 23 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:16,880 So that was a pretty fun one. 24 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,580 But as one of our favorite listeners, you know, we always ask this first. 25 00:01:20,580 --> 00:01:23,240 So how did you get into aviation? 26 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:29,760 Well, it's a little interesting in the fact that I learned how to fly from my dad. 27 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:34,280 But my first flight was actually out of Flavov Airport in the Cessna 140. 28 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:40,440 I was about 11 months old and dad strapped me between him and my mom right on the flap 29 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,920 handle and off I went. 30 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,480 And so that kind of just started the journey. 31 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:50,360 And you know, in general, my dad has been definitely the hero of mine in terms of aviation 32 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,000 and experiences and things that he's done. 33 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,120 He kind of led me through the journey. 34 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,600 He never pushed me to be in the aviation as a profession, but he was going to be darn 35 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,200 sure that I had my private pilot's license. 36 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,240 So he definitely worked through that. 37 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:10,840 And actually, I went through high school and college just flying as a private pilot. 38 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,000 But I went and got my degree in microbiology, of all things. 39 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,560 And actually worked as it is. 40 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:22,560 And I actually worked as a microbiologist for a little bit, but I just kept wanting 41 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,000 to be back in the air, you know, sort of that yearning. 42 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,640 I think you guys have talked about on several podcasts about that just desire to be in an 43 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:34,200 airplane and accepting those challenges and mitigating those risks and being a part of 44 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,280 that kind of community. 45 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:40,080 And that was really a part of it through my dad, but I wanted to be something more that 46 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:41,680 I can make of it. 47 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:47,360 And so while I was flying for the Civil Air Patrol at Squadron 5 there at Riverside, I 48 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:53,440 made friends with a gentleman who ended up talking about this company called General 49 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:54,960 Atomics. 50 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,520 So by this time, I had already had my commercial license. 51 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,920 I had, you know, several hundred hours. 52 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:02,840 I had a CFI. 53 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,020 And so I went and talked with them. 54 00:03:06,020 --> 00:03:09,480 And after some interviews, I got hired by them. 55 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:16,720 And General Atomics makes the MQ-1 Predator and the MQ-9 Reaper and those very large unmanned 56 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:18,280 aircraft. 57 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,400 And surprisingly, I don't know if your listeners know this, but those aircraft are not controlled 58 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:23,880 by an RC box. 59 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,120 They're actually controlled by a pseudo cockpit. 60 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:31,520 We call it a ground control station, but it's an actual cockpit that you sit in with flight 61 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:32,520 controls. 62 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,760 You have stick, you have rudder pedals, you have throttles, just like you would in any 63 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,240 flight simulator that you've seen. 64 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:44,400 But anyway, I spent many years with them and I really enjoyed it. 65 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,000 And I started doing some instruction on the side, but that was just more just so I could 66 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,000 fly some manned airplanes at the same time. 67 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:51,000 Yeah. 68 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:55,640 So I've actually know a ton of people that have done with the chase planes for those Reaper 69 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:56,640 drones. 70 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,200 I guess in certain airspace, they actually have to have chase planes and there's people 71 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,940 that fly turboed Bonanzas and different planes that get to chase those. 72 00:04:04,940 --> 00:04:07,960 And I've always thought it was fun to kind of see them all. 73 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,360 They're in like flight suits, but they're civilians and they fly these chase planes. 74 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,040 And it's really kind of fun to see. 75 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:19,040 I actually thought about doing it at one point and just going and applying because it's a 76 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,560 ton of hours in a high performance airplane and it's fun. 77 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:23,120 You're chasing a drone all day long. 78 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:24,680 Who wouldn't want to do that? 79 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,600 So that's pretty neat. 80 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,800 But speaking of that, I know you're kind of starting to get into it, but what types of 81 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,440 jobs have you held as your aviation career? 82 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,200 So that's how you got into it. 83 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,280 I know you're talking, you got into flight instruction. 84 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:40,000 I know I've done some flight instruction stuff with you. 85 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,520 And actually everybody, when I got my first Cessna 120, Kevin was the only person I knew 86 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,200 that had 120 or 140 time in particular. 87 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,520 And I said, Hey, can you try flying this thing for me? 88 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:51,520 And he flew it. 89 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:52,520 He was the first one. 90 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,800 He test flew my, my 120 after I bought it for the first time. 91 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:00,440 And actually I think you might've given me my tail well endorsement now that I'm thinking 92 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:01,440 about it. 93 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:02,440 I think we finished it up. 94 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,040 Yeah, we did finish it up. 95 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:05,040 Yeah. 96 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:09,120 So I got my tail well endorsement from Kevin and I was just a couple, two, three years 97 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,960 ago, I think at the most now, but now I've got a new 120 by the way, Kevin, you don't 98 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:17,900 know about, I don't think, but, but I've been flying that thing about once a week as much 99 00:05:17,900 --> 00:05:18,900 as I can. 100 00:05:18,900 --> 00:05:21,000 And I'm a lot better than I was. 101 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:22,360 And you were showing me how to fly it. 102 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:23,360 That's for sure. 103 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:24,360 I'm sure you have it. 104 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:25,360 Yeah. 105 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:26,360 Keep practicing. 106 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:27,360 Yeah. 107 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:28,360 Practice makes perfect. 108 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:29,520 So what other jobs have you held? 109 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:35,200 So it's like I said, an unmanned pilot, but this is pre 107. 110 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:36,200 So there wasn't any 107. 111 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,940 You actually had to have a license for that. 112 00:05:38,940 --> 00:05:47,480 So I had that CFI CF, double I MEI, lots of tailwind instruction, love tailwheel aircraft. 113 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:52,440 And then I was a survey pilot for a while. 114 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:57,520 And what I did there was just sort of what's called ISR, some imagery surveillance, reconnaissance, 115 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:03,080 and you're just going around whatever a customer asks you to look at, go in and take pictures. 116 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:08,180 I wasn't really too involved with the actual sensors, just the aircraft itself. 117 00:06:08,180 --> 00:06:16,400 And then I'd say that MEI and then going into some of the, you know, just sort of flying 118 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:22,880 test flying for people on the side, kind of like just, you know, working with people, 119 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,640 builders who are struggling with something or trying to get a performance number that 120 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,320 they were looking for. 121 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:36,400 And before I say all that, I had gotten into NTPs, which is that national test spot school. 122 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,720 And so that's where I gained some certifications to kind of allow me to sign off on some guys' 123 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:42,560 phase ones and things like that. 124 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:50,000 Or assist with the sign off, sorry, the DER signs that off, but to assist with those projects. 125 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:55,240 And then really that's kind of it, just test flying. 126 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,660 And I was deployed many years for General Atomics. 127 00:06:59,660 --> 00:07:05,720 So I was overseas flying the various missions and things like that. 128 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:10,080 So without telling us too much, because I know you're sworn to secrecy by the government, 129 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,600 General Atomics, what was that like? 130 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:18,560 Was that like, what did you get to do or not get to do without telling me all the secrets? 131 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:25,000 It was, you know, the life was pretty long and hard in the sense that you would go on 132 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,680 contracts that may last about 90 days or 120 days. 133 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:34,120 It ends up being 200 days or 300 days because there were so few of us that, and the mission 134 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,920 was so important that they would keep extending us. 135 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,880 So you might be gone for eight months at a time, even though you sign up for about three 136 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:41,880 months. 137 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,000 You're in the desert. 138 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:48,020 So this is in, you know, the Stans, the Iraqs, those areas. 139 00:07:48,020 --> 00:07:53,360 So you're in the desert for long periods of time, which is a very unique desert. 140 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:54,760 It's not like Southern California. 141 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,880 There's a lot of similarities, but it's just very interesting. 142 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,960 The weather that you have to deal with. 143 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:05,600 Sandstorms, I can go up to eight, 9,000 feet having to deal with that. 144 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,240 And lightning that shows up within the sandstorms. 145 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,880 That's always fun, especially with a carbon fiber aircraft. 146 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,080 Yeah, that's crazy. 147 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,400 I can't even fathom that. 148 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:21,040 And then, but beyond that, you know, you end up making friends with a very good group of 149 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,160 guys and gals who help support. 150 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:29,320 What the missions were is I was the pilot and then we would have what's called a sensor 151 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:35,160 operator and this is an individual who understands the different types of imagery electronics 152 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,080 that are on the aircraft. 153 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:42,080 And their job is to produce those images and produce that information for whomever may 154 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:43,080 need it. 155 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:44,960 Oftentimes, I never knew who the customer was. 156 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:49,400 So you could take a lot of this is satellite based and a lot of this is line of sight, 157 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:50,640 C-band based. 158 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:55,960 So that information gets encrypted and sent to someplace for them to later disseminate 159 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,960 and work with. 160 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:03,600 But there were times it was just long days of just drilling holes in the sky, circling 161 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,600 for hours and hours. 162 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,960 The legs on these aircraft are upwards of 18 hours. 163 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:15,520 So it is very common to go an entire month of 100 takeoffs in zero landings. 164 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,840 So that's very real. 165 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:20,840 And zero landings? 166 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,840 Zero landings because you would be on the launch shift. 167 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:29,080 So your entire job is to launch the aircraft and then put it in orbit, manage the aircraft 168 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:33,120 and then eight hours later, somebody comes and relieves you. 169 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,520 And so they'll be on the recovery shift. 170 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,680 So they simply recover the aircraft. 171 00:09:38,680 --> 00:09:41,080 And the organizations did a good job at balancing that out. 172 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,840 So if you go a month of nothing but takeoffs, the next month you're going to be doing nothing 173 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,180 but landings. 174 00:09:46,180 --> 00:09:50,480 So they do a very good job at balancing out and keeping your currencies alive. 175 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,480 All the currencies are still real, just like you would have to do in the airlines, just 176 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:54,920 like you have to do in the military. 177 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:59,280 So you still have to maintain your minimum number of instrument landings and visual landings 178 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:00,420 and all that kind of stuff. 179 00:10:00,420 --> 00:10:02,560 So all that's still stuck. 180 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:04,840 There wasn't any special provisions for that whatsoever. 181 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,440 So it can be pretty challenging trying to manage all that and get people, you know, 182 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,640 all their takeoffs and landings in and all their instrument approaches in and all that 183 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:13,860 kind of stuff. 184 00:10:13,860 --> 00:10:15,500 So it was very challenging. 185 00:10:15,500 --> 00:10:19,160 It must have been really difficult to keep all of those pilots current like that. 186 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:24,560 I mean, your chief pilot had to have had so much work and workload or whoever had to handle 187 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:26,080 that dispatchers or whatnot. 188 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:30,400 I can't even fathom because I'm assuming you don't have as many resources as like an airline 189 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:31,680 would or maybe you would. 190 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:32,680 I don't know. 191 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:33,680 No, you're absolutely right. 192 00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:36,320 In fact, there were multiple chief pilots, if you will. 193 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,480 So we would often go out in groups as you would like a squadron. 194 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,040 So there would be a group of eight of us and we know each other very well, you know, four 195 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:49,120 pilots, four sensor operators, and you would go out and then there would also be a sort 196 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,280 of a chief pilot that would manage the day to day. 197 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:56,080 And then of course back at the home office, then there would be, you know, a head chief 198 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:01,160 pilot that would also manage what they're doing and keeping the mission straight. 199 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:08,800 So there was a lot of challenges and you know, if somebody got sick or if we needed to do 200 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,960 a different type of mission, that could throw the monkey wrench in the plans really fast. 201 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,600 Like I said, there was very few of us at the time, very few. 202 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:21,760 This type of flying brings up odd question for me and I'm hoping you'd know how to answer 203 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:22,760 it. 204 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:23,760 Actually, I'm sure you would. 205 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:29,120 So when you fly these eight hour flights, does that count as flight time? 206 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:34,800 Like if you wanted to go to the airlines, does that count as flight time for your 1500 207 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:35,920 or so to speak? 208 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:36,920 Or is that more like a simulator? 209 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:37,920 Sort of. 210 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:38,920 It's a great question. 211 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:43,520 And it's one that as an organization, as a group of pilots, we've had to sort of battle 212 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,900 in a way or at least fight for our spot. 213 00:11:45,900 --> 00:11:50,840 And the FAA, especially now looks at unmanned aircraft, they're envisioning this concept 214 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:55,160 of somebody on the ground, line of sight to the aircraft and manipulating it via a set 215 00:11:55,160 --> 00:12:01,600 of control sticks versus, you know, you're commanding an aircraft, a live aircraft through 216 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:02,760 a simulator. 217 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,840 So you're physically performing the same exact work you would if you're flying a 208 or 218 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:12,400 if you're flying, you know, 172, you're doing the same work and flight planning and all 219 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:13,400 of that stuff. 220 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:14,820 All that is very real. 221 00:12:14,820 --> 00:12:20,520 So to get to your question directly, it came about that there are some large UAVs that 222 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,240 actually have in numbers. 223 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,440 They're actually certified registered aircraft. 224 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:30,840 And it came about that those aircraft, because they're registered, yes, you can log that 225 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,680 flight time. 226 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:36,440 But many of the aircraft, especially the ones we flew overseas, were not, you know, they 227 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,840 were government owned aircraft. 228 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:40,240 So they didn't have in numbers. 229 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,200 They weren't, you know, civilian registered or anything. 230 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,000 So that's still sort of a battle. 231 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,680 If people know the type of flying we did, and I'm going for an interview or something 232 00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:53,720 like that, and they know that kind of flying, they'll recognize the hours. 233 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:58,040 I mean, the FAA may not, but they'll recognize it as experience. 234 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:03,320 And so the only thing you couldn't do was earn a certificate through the process. 235 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,280 So let's say you were going to go for your ATP. 236 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,840 You could not use one of these aircraft to accomplish that. 237 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:10,840 Gotcha. 238 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:11,840 Makes sense. 239 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:12,840 Makes sense. 240 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:13,840 I mean, I've heard lots from that. 241 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:18,960 And what kind of experience requirements were they looking for when they were hiring you? 242 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,240 It's kind of hard to find someone that's trained to fly these planes already. 243 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:24,880 So are these UAVs? 244 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,200 For me, obviously, they're scraping the bottom of the barrel. 245 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,160 So they're looking for anybody with a pulse. 246 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:31,800 Oh no. 247 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:32,800 No. 248 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,880 So when I got hired on, you know, this is in early 2000s. 249 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,960 This is when the program is brand new, just absolutely brand new. 250 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,800 And in fact, in a lot of cases, the military didn't really know what to do with them. 251 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,000 And then eventually the mission evolved and it was great. 252 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,240 So they were definitely looking for commercial pilots. 253 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,600 They wanted, you know, about 300 hours. 254 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,680 And of course, your medical to go with that. 255 00:13:54,680 --> 00:14:00,260 And what they were really looking for were guys who had experience with different types 256 00:14:00,260 --> 00:14:04,880 of aircraft, you know, about five hours a piece and different types at the time. 257 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:10,320 I think I had flown 30 aircraft with a minimum of five hours of PIC in each one of them. 258 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:16,560 And they were also looking for somebody who flew aircraft that wasn't automated. 259 00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:21,560 And it sounds very counterintuitive because this is a highly automated aircraft system. 260 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,680 But they wanted people who understood stick and rudder. 261 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:30,440 Because at the time in the early days of this aircraft, failures happened. 262 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,240 And there's redundant flight control systems and things like that on board. 263 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:37,480 It came down to at some point, you're going to have to stick and rudder the airplane and 264 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,880 you're going to have to do it staring at a two dimensional screen. 265 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:46,760 And so they weren't really interested with high time jet pilots or people with direct 266 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:47,760 military experience. 267 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:49,840 They weren't really interested in that. 268 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:54,960 They wanted people who was a crop duster, you know, people who did aerobatics. 269 00:14:54,960 --> 00:15:01,080 A lot of people were on aerobatics teams for the pilots that were there. 270 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,920 And so that's what they were kind of looking for is that you had this diverse capability 271 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:10,360 in an aircraft and weren't really afraid of it if the automation went away, you know, 272 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,360 and failed on you. 273 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,760 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 274 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,440 You want a good pilot at the end of the day, either way. 275 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:23,240 But, you know, speaking of being a crop duster in aerobatics, I know you went to national 276 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:24,800 test pilot school. 277 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,760 So how did you get there? 278 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:27,760 You know, it's a pretty big jump. 279 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,400 It's a well known school and a well known for being expensive school. 280 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,000 So how did you do that? 281 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,120 Luck, pure luck. 282 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:42,360 And that's one thing about my aviation career is the very few things I've been able to do 283 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,680 is out of pure luck and joy. 284 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:51,200 And I cannot think enough the mentors I've had, my dad, everybody who's ever guided me. 285 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:52,860 I love them for it. 286 00:15:52,860 --> 00:16:01,520 And so it just so happened that I was working a mission set out of in the desert near Edwards 287 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:03,280 Air Force Base. 288 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:09,320 And they were in need of people who could sort of flight test some of the aircraft, the 289 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,280 Incunites, the Reapers, the Avengers and all that kind of stuff. 290 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,700 So they were in need of that. 291 00:16:14,700 --> 00:16:18,080 And they were looking around for people that could possibly help them out with that. 292 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,160 And when I say they, I'm talking about the US Air Force. 293 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:27,880 And so they ended up selecting a few of us, you know, to go to the test spot school because 294 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:32,600 in order to be a test pilot at that level, or at least be able to sign off on different 295 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:37,800 aircraft and different parts, you had to have, you know, at least a designation that you 296 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,640 were a test pilot, not just somebody who's experienced with different types of aircraft, 297 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,880 but you actually had a designation. 298 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,560 And so that's kind of how I got that slot. 299 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:47,560 It was sponsored. 300 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:52,080 It was only offered to one or two people every couple of years. 301 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:57,680 And so I don't know if I upset enough people or I did a great job in terms of trying to 302 00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,720 get the slot, but I got it. 303 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,120 And I could not be more thankful for that. 304 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,440 It has certainly opened up my career. 305 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:09,280 Soterios Johnson By the way, Carson wasn't exaggerating when 306 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:10,720 he said expensive. 307 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,420 To go there, it costs upwards of a million dollars to send somebody there. 308 00:17:15,420 --> 00:17:19,360 So it's not something that you can just, because I asked Kevin one day when I first found out 309 00:17:19,360 --> 00:17:22,680 he went to national test pilots, I said, how much is it? 310 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:23,680 I'd love to go do that. 311 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,200 I figured, oh, it might be like a month long program or something. 312 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,160 No, it was a million dollars. 313 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,880 So you really need to be sponsored by the government, a government or the government 314 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:38,160 or a really big company like Boeing or somebody like that. 315 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,960 But speaking of how long it takes, I was really surprised because I figured it'd be a 30 day 316 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,080 course or 60 day course and go on weekends or something. 317 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,400 I mean, that's what I imagined when I first heard about it. 318 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,200 But what was the reality of it, Kevin? 319 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:51,200 How long did it take? 320 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:52,200 Kevin A 18 months. 321 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:53,200 Soterios Johnson That's incredible. 322 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,000 Kevin A Now, that being said, NTPS also has a lot 323 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:58,000 of short courses. 324 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,400 You know, they have a lot of small courses that might talk about stability and control 325 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:07,120 or avionics or different types of fixed wing and rotor wing. 326 00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:10,960 So there are courses you can take that are, you know, just maybe a couple of weeks long 327 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,440 or maybe a month long. 328 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,560 On the website, they kind of spell it all out. 329 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,120 And those are all worth it as well. 330 00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:23,280 What they are, they're just little tiny modules of a larger course. 331 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,360 And it's and they're wonderful. 332 00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:28,320 The guys are extremely, you know, intelligent. 333 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,120 They're extremely they work with you. 334 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:32,800 They try to get you to understand and get you to learn. 335 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,800 But it is insanely challenging. 336 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:36,400 I cannot stress that enough. 337 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,340 You know, my background is in microbiology. 338 00:18:39,340 --> 00:18:41,600 It is not in engineering. 339 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:48,880 And so I ended up going to, you know, to school to learn more math, just so I can keep up 340 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,520 with the class. 341 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,000 And that was a struggle. 342 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,920 If I don't say so myself, I could fly the linen snot out of everything they gave me 343 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,760 to the precision that they needed. 344 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:05,120 But when it came time to crunching the data and to formulating the next set of test cards, 345 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:06,520 that was a challenge. 346 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,200 I struggled with that a lot. 347 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:13,040 So that's where my mentors came in and kind of helped me out. 348 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:19,040 When I wanted to become a pilot, the one thing that scared me was the math, because I'm not 349 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,160 a math whiz. 350 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:22,720 It's just kind of like you. 351 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,360 I'm not as good as Kevin, obviously. 352 00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:28,080 He's a pretty much an award winning pilot. 353 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:29,720 If I do say so myself, he's really good. 354 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,620 He can fly the heck out of an airplane. 355 00:19:32,620 --> 00:19:34,240 But the math scared me. 356 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,240 I thought the math just being a private pilot would be very difficult. 357 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,520 And I was lucky to find out there's not very much math in basic piloting. 358 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:46,780 I mean, there is a little bit wind correction angles and things like that. 359 00:19:46,780 --> 00:19:50,140 But it's something you can feel a lot of the time when you're actually flying. 360 00:19:50,140 --> 00:19:53,400 So all the student pilots that are listening, don't get scared. 361 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:57,320 The math isn't that hard when you're becoming a private or even up to a commercial pilot 362 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:58,940 or a flight instructor level. 363 00:19:58,940 --> 00:20:05,320 But I will say, it's probably calculus when you get to where Kevin's been. 364 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,200 So that is probably a lot more challenging. 365 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:12,480 Yeah, a lot of differential equations, a ton of differential equations going on. 366 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,760 And really, there's calculus involved, yes. 367 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,040 But it's more of that algebraic based calculus. 368 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,720 So it's not entirely challenging. 369 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:26,240 The key is that in aviation, there's no finite in aviation. 370 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,760 There's no absolute. 371 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:29,760 Everything has an exception. 372 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:34,600 How big or small that is, heck, even our regulations have exceptions. 373 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:39,880 But the point is that within that mathematics is it's almost like you're chasing multiple 374 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,500 variables that don't have answers. 375 00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:47,720 So you have to try and get as close as possible to something so that you can have a benchmark 376 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,720 to work from. 377 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,880 Absolutely. 378 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:56,760 And kind of on a segue into test flying airplanes, I told everybody in the beginning of the episode 379 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:01,480 that we had a surprise for them, and Kevin didn't tell us where he's working today. 380 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,040 And I'm proud to announce he works for one of my favorite airplane companies, and that's 381 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:06,780 Icon Aircraft. 382 00:21:06,780 --> 00:21:10,900 And unfortunately, since he's my friend, and he's also a test pilot, I send him text messages 383 00:21:10,900 --> 00:21:12,320 whenever I have a question on things. 384 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,740 Hopefully, I don't bug him too much with those things. 385 00:21:15,740 --> 00:21:19,540 But I really value his experience and being a test pilot. 386 00:21:19,540 --> 00:21:23,020 And what is it like working for Icon Aircraft? 387 00:21:23,020 --> 00:21:24,020 And what are you doing for them? 388 00:21:24,020 --> 00:21:27,280 I mean, I know they've had a lot of awesome announcements since you've been there, and 389 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:28,800 I know they've all been due to you. 390 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,800 So tell me about that. 391 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,040 You just say, but no, unfortunately. 392 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:40,480 Well, you know, working for Icon, and it's going to sound biased, but I cannot stress 393 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,080 enough how much I love this. 394 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,320 The opportunity presented itself. 395 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:51,600 And when I took it, I relocated my entire family from Southern California. 396 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:56,380 And you know, and they're coming around to love and what's going on, and they love it 397 00:21:56,380 --> 00:21:57,520 up here and everything like that. 398 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,960 But I cannot thank them enough for the support because this was going to be an opportunity 399 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:06,000 that I don't think I would ever have if I didn't jump at it. 400 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,040 Even you know, if it was short lived, I could say at least I've done this. 401 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:16,060 So what my job is, my title is Flight Sciences Manager, Chief Test Pilot. 402 00:22:16,060 --> 00:22:23,400 And so what I do is I design the test cards and the test plans and work with the engineers 403 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,720 to help collect the data that they need for various components. 404 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,840 You know, aircraft are constantly improving, aircraft are constantly changing. 405 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,520 There's often requests from customers that they want XYZ built into the aircraft. 406 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,120 So how do you do that? 407 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:43,240 You know, and engineers are absolutely wonderful. 408 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,360 The group here is fantastic. 409 00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:47,560 And I can't say enough about them. 410 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:52,380 And so working with them, help design those test plans and test cards, understand the 411 00:22:52,380 --> 00:22:57,520 types of data that they're going to need to be able to meet that design element that they're 412 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:58,840 going for. 413 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,920 And then there's also the regulatory side. 414 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:06,800 You know, each aircraft has to meet the standards set by the Federal Aviation Administration. 415 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,520 And so we have to design test flights to capture that data to demonstrate to them that yes, 416 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:16,600 these aircraft is compliant and, you know, to be an LSA. 417 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,800 And these are how the things are compliant. 418 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,320 And then further, you know, if we design a new widget that goes in the airplane, we 419 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,200 also have to demonstrate its compliance as well. 420 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,680 So it's kind of this back and forth between design, engineering, flight testing, as well 421 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,560 as production flight testing. 422 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,080 My day to day is we roll out a ton of aircraft a month. 423 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,600 And my day to day is to test flight each aircraft. 424 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,360 So when I get the aircraft, they have 0.4 hours on them. 425 00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:45,760 And that's only due to engine runs. 426 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,800 And then I fly about two and a half hours to run through an entire gamut of compliance 427 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:51,800 testing. 428 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,040 So when it gets back, then they present that to the FAA. 429 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,700 And then it receives its certificate of airworthiness. 430 00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:00,640 So it gets its birthday. 431 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,340 So I actually fly the aircraft before it has its birthday. 432 00:24:04,340 --> 00:24:07,640 And then, yeah, it's pretty amazing. 433 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:08,640 Absolutely amazing. 434 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,400 I love how much I'm enjoying this. 435 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,560 How do you fly an airplane that technically doesn't have an airworthiness certificate 436 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:16,560 yet? 437 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,560 So what the FAA does is they work with you. 438 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,680 And after seeing your compliance statements, and this, of course, happened many years ago 439 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:29,720 when the company was first built, but they give you what's called a special flight permit. 440 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:34,200 So special flight permits, that's kind of a general term. 441 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,520 It's LSAs operate under a special flight permit. 442 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,800 That's why you see S-LSA, special flight permit, LSA. 443 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:47,520 But this special flight permit is very restrictive, and it's specific to test flying only. 444 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:52,920 So that permit that the FAA gives us allows me to do just the test flight elements in 445 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,960 a very restricted area, under very restricted conditions. 446 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,040 I can't take people with me. 447 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,000 I can't do any type of instrument approaches or anything like that. 448 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:07,160 I can only do those elements that demonstrate compliance prior to the certificate of airworthiness. 449 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,760 So it's a special flight permit that we operate under. 450 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:14,720 So Kevin, I know that this airplane has kind of a stall spin resistant airframe. 451 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,720 And I've stalled it and it just kind of stays up there. 452 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:23,340 And I've seen some videos online of people trying to spin it and they put it right next 453 00:25:23,340 --> 00:25:29,440 to a Cessna 150 and the 150 spins away and it kind of just like floats up, the icon does. 454 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,840 Have you tried to spin one before? 455 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,040 And have you gotten it to spin? 456 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,400 And tell me a little bit about the spin resistant airframe. 457 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:37,400 Okay. 458 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,920 Well, one way to answer the first couple of questions there is that during the production 459 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,120 flight test, we actually deliberately try to spin it every time. 460 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:49,560 And we do under very specific conditions. 461 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:54,520 In the part 23 regulations, there is a regulation there for compliance and spin resistance. 462 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:59,680 And so it gives us a performance where we slow the airplane down into the stall and 463 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,760 then we bank the airplane 30 degrees either side. 464 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,760 And we have to do that in all flap positions. 465 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,200 So we do that with flaps up, flaps 15 and flaps 30. 466 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,920 So we stall the aircraft and then I deliberately try to spin it. 467 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,440 And so that's how it maintains its spin resistance. 468 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,520 Also the aircraft has to have the parachute installed, the VGs installed. 469 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,800 So there's other requirements there to it. 470 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,640 So but the answer to your question is yeah, I do try to spin it every production flight 471 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,640 test. 472 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:33,960 Now as far as getting it to spin, that was a challenge. 473 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:38,360 It's an extreme maneuver to be able to get it into a spin. 474 00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:39,360 And it is very difficult. 475 00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:43,760 And no, I've not been successful in getting it into the spin. 476 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:50,360 Yeah, so it is very resistant in that realm. 477 00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:54,880 But keep in mind though, like I said, there's no absolutes in aviation. 478 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:55,880 Can it spin? 479 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:56,880 Will it spin? 480 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,480 I'm sure there's a condition out there in which the aircraft can spin, but it is so 481 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,520 highly resistant that just simply by letting go of the controls, it will just simply drop 482 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,960 the nose, come out of the stall and fly straight. 483 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:11,160 That's incredible. 484 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,680 I remember when I first saw the video that I referred to earlier about somebody trying 485 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,840 to spin it and that's incredible. 486 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,840 And everyone listening, remember Kevin is a actual test pilot. 487 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:26,400 I mean, this is what he does for a living and he's an absolute professional at it. 488 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,480 So obviously don't go try to spin your icons. 489 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,200 So just to kind of give everybody that, that would be very dumb. 490 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,120 But as he said, it's incredibly spin resistant and it's very difficult to spin, which is 491 00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:41,840 great for safe and for knowing about an airplane that has done that or that has the safety 492 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,520 profile that Icon does. 493 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:49,720 I also think outside of that, it also has the parachute installed on it, which is fantastic. 494 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:55,600 I don't believe that anybody's ever pulled one yet, knock on wood, but that is a great 495 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,040 safety mechanism that it has on the aircraft as well. 496 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,720 And I believe that's the whole reason why it can actually go over the LSA weight limits. 497 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:02,720 Is that correct? 498 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:03,720 Yes, that's part of it. 499 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,520 And it all revolves around the spin resistant authority that it holds. 500 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:12,440 And so we got an exemption because we demonstrate all these safety features that were attached 501 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,240 to the airplane helps with spin resistance. 502 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:21,800 And therefore we were able to earn an exemption to go over the LSA weight limit. 503 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,360 That's way cool. 504 00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:26,280 What is the most fun flight you've actually had in the icon? 505 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:31,320 Because I know I've had several, one of my favorites was letting my son land at the plane 506 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:32,720 for the first time on his own. 507 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:38,240 It was actually the first plane he ever landed without any instructor input or control input 508 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:39,480 from me. 509 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,280 And that was a proud dad moment. 510 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,120 And that was last year. 511 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,640 So he's, he it's actually his birthday today. 512 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,320 He turns 12 today. 513 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:48,320 So happy birthday, Austin. 514 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,620 I've already talked to him this morning, but yeah, he was 11 when he did that. 515 00:28:52,620 --> 00:28:54,700 So that was kind of my awesome moment. 516 00:28:54,700 --> 00:28:58,920 What is one of your awesome moments that you've had in that icon that you really enjoy? 517 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,200 There's so many. 518 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:06,480 The first two that come to mind is I was able to fly my kids in the icon and to land them 519 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:07,480 on water. 520 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:13,880 Now, you know, I've flown with my kids before rented aircraft and gone and had some fun, 521 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,920 but you know, obviously they've never been on water. 522 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:21,320 So when we took it out to the lake and we landed on the lake, they couldn't believe 523 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:22,320 it, you know? 524 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,360 And so we sat there and I shut the engine down, we're in the middle of the lake and 525 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:27,360 they just swam. 526 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,400 They just jumped off and swam. 527 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,520 And they thought this is the absolute greatest thing. 528 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:40,400 And then I'd say another really memorable moment was sort of taking my dad. 529 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,760 After I'd been here a couple months, they came out to visit. 530 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,480 So I took him up in the icon and he fell in love with the aircraft as you did Brandon. 531 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,920 He absolutely loved the airplane. 532 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:55,680 But here it was this aircraft that I test flew that I helped get its birth certificate 533 00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:02,600 and I'm handing the controls over to somebody who I admire immensely and watching the joy 534 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,920 and fun in their eyes. 535 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,840 You know, that's right up there. 536 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:13,560 And the other thing is my wife, taking her up and she goes flying with me. 537 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,960 She's had to deal with me for, you know, 30 years and whatnot. 538 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,880 But when taking her, I saw the joy in her face. 539 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:26,600 Normally she sees airplanes as just like a functional aspect that it's fun, it's great. 540 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,360 And she was a pilot too. 541 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,880 But I'd never seen her light up like she did when she flew that icon. 542 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:38,280 And of course we went on the water as well and had a good day about it. 543 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:39,280 Yeah. 544 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:40,280 That's incredible. 545 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,360 And just for our listeners, it kind of, this brings it all kind of full circle for me. 546 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,720 I almost got goosebumps when you were talking as well for one particular reason. 547 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:48,920 I didn't realize it. 548 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,240 I mean, I know it in the back of my head always, but kind of verbalize it. 549 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:58,640 Whenever people who love airplanes talk about airplanes, they do not talk about the airplane 550 00:30:58,640 --> 00:30:59,760 itself. 551 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,400 They talk about what the airplane could do for you and what it can do for your family, 552 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,520 which is absolutely incredible. 553 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:07,760 Like what it did for my family. 554 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,440 I mean, I told you Austin was able to do that first flight. 555 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,920 And just like you said, when you first landed with your kids on the water, that was incredible 556 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,680 as well. 557 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:22,000 Just bringing your dad, who is a mentor to you in aviation and doing all of those things, 558 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,720 those were all experiences that airplanes afford us. 559 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,680 Those are experiences that airplanes can give to us. 560 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,440 And it's not because of the airplane itself. 561 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,000 It's because it's because what we're able to do with it. 562 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,140 So that's really powerful and it really opens your eyes. 563 00:31:37,140 --> 00:31:43,000 So if you're thinking about learning to fly, it's not just flying the airplane and the 564 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,880 special feeling you get from becoming a pilot, because that is a thing. 565 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,120 And when you first become a pilot, how do you know when a pilot walks into a room? 566 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:51,760 They tell you, right? 567 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,600 That's always the montage, right? 568 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,360 But no, it's really after you've been a pilot for a long time, it's really the experiences 569 00:31:58,360 --> 00:31:59,800 that allows you. 570 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,640 And my friend Anthony, Jirasi, says it really well. 571 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:08,020 And he says, it's about the freedom it gives you being a pilot. 572 00:32:08,020 --> 00:32:10,040 It really gives you an immense freedom. 573 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,680 And the icon just gives you a crazy amount of freedom, which allows you to land on water. 574 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,520 And it's like flying a jet ski with wings. 575 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:18,800 It's kind of how I always talk about it. 576 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,480 I go to Long Beach Harbor and I see all the jet skis around. 577 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:26,160 Unfortunately, they try to get up a little too close and I end up having to take off 578 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:27,160 before they get there. 579 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:32,000 I'm sure you've had the same problems, but that's really what aviation does. 580 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,480 That's really what I love about it. 581 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,400 And it sounds like you can have similar things that drive your passion. 582 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:43,760 And even more than that is, like I said, my career has been full of luck and mentorship 583 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,320 and I want to give that back. 584 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:52,640 I want to interact with students coming up and helping them work on things, challenging 585 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:58,280 them with different ideas and philosophies and understand what aviation actually is and 586 00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,560 isn't. 587 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,920 The other sides, and that's not just the scary side of about the safety or anything like 588 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,000 that, but what kind of risk mitigations are actually being done? 589 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,000 What's your thought process? 590 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,960 How does that ADM work into the whole situation? 591 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:16,120 And so I love to work with anybody who's willing to do that. 592 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:17,120 Yeah. 593 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:18,120 That's fantastic. 594 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:19,120 Yeah. 595 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:20,120 Thanks, Kev. 596 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:21,120 It's really fun just listening to you guys. 597 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,840 And again, the worst part about podcasts is that we can't see your guys' face because 598 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,160 you guys just look so happy talking about icons. 599 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,080 I'm just sitting back here just watching you two just talk about icons and your love for 600 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,160 seaplanes and your love for your aviation careers. 601 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,040 So it's really awesome. 602 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:46,080 And going from test pilot, CFI, now chief test pilot, that's pretty awesome. 603 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,260 Kevin, you really have done it all. 604 00:33:48,260 --> 00:33:51,180 So I really appreciate you being on with us today. 605 00:33:51,180 --> 00:33:54,800 And I think everyone listening, I really hope that you have at least a couple of really 606 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,400 cool new ideas for aviation careers. 607 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:02,320 And being a test pilot, I feel, is by far the coolest thing I can think of. 608 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:03,320 It's a lot of paper. 609 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,640 Kevin, do you happen to have any future plans? 610 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,920 Do you want to be a, I don't know, do you have any future plans? 611 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:13,920 You want to become an astronaut like I do one day? 612 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:14,920 Well, absolutely. 613 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,160 I would jump at the chance to do that most definitely. 614 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:23,560 And it's funny when I was, in fact, a mentor I work with, Chuck Coleman, he actually flew 615 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,280 the spaceship one. 616 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,560 And or Zio the White Knight spaceship one. 617 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,160 We actually was involved with that for a period of time. 618 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:35,240 We were talking about it and I said, yeah, I go for me, I don't want just the license 619 00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:36,240 to do that. 620 00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:38,680 I want the instructing license to do that. 621 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:44,520 Now I want to be the DPE for that, you know, to really, because that forces you to learn 622 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,400 so much more and take in so much more. 623 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:53,800 But as far as my future, you know, designing airplanes, I've got a couple of designs on 624 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,980 the mental board and working with an engineer to look through that. 625 00:34:57,980 --> 00:35:01,160 So there could be a possibility of a design of an airplane. 626 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,360 I, upsets me at how expensive our industry is. 627 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,560 It upsets me to no end. 628 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,680 And now seeing how some of the sausages made, there's so many ways we can make it cheaper, 629 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,680 not only from a regulatory standpoint, but just, you know, our manufacturer building, 630 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,240 things like that, there's ways to make this cheaper. 631 00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:19,280 Absolutely. 632 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:26,320 Because I've met so many young kids who are great attitudes towards flying, but just don't 633 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:27,320 have the means. 634 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,200 And luckily, you know, with like Stratos and other organizations like that to help them 635 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,320 out, that's extremely important. 636 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,400 And so I could not be more supportive of that. 637 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:42,600 But anyway, you know, designing an aircraft that is inexpensive, but capable, you know, 638 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,760 not some of these, you know, really small two seat aircraft that can only take you down 639 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,040 the road, but something that, you know, has legs and can do something serious. 640 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:56,400 I know it's a bit of a pipe dream, but that's one area of hoping to do. 641 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:03,120 And that to try and get my DPE, try and finish that up and try and do other things like that. 642 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,520 And then more importantly, just working with anybody who's got a great design, you know, 643 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:13,160 just the thought process of going through a new aircraft again is so wonderful. 644 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:14,160 That's awesome. 645 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,360 I mean, you said it might be a pipe dream, but every single idea, including ICON and 646 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,960 including a Cessna 172 and a Cessna 120, they all started as pipe dreams. 647 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,520 They all started as dreams in somebody's head. 648 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,920 And it wasn't until somebody put an action in place and actually did it. 649 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,160 The difference in most people and success are the people who are thinkers and the people 650 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:35,940 that are doers. 651 00:36:35,940 --> 00:36:38,400 And Kevin, you're definitely a doer. 652 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,880 And I'm very proud to call you my friend and to have you on the podcast. 653 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,040 So thank you so much for coming on here today. 654 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,560 I know today's a little longer episode, but I think it was absolutely worth it. 655 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,040 We could probably go on for hours and hours. 656 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,020 I know Kevin and I, before the episode started, we started talking for 15 or 20 minutes about 657 00:36:54,020 --> 00:36:59,240 things that probably was pretty good content, but the recording wasn't started yet. 658 00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:02,080 So yeah, Kevin, thank you so much for being here. 659 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:06,680 And if anybody wants to reach out to you or anything like that, can you tell everyone 660 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:07,680 how to reach you? 661 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,320 And if there's anything you provide to some of our listeners, we'd love to share that 662 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:12,320 with them. 663 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,180 Yeah, I'm on Instagram. 664 00:37:14,180 --> 00:37:24,000 So it's Cessna93victor or C-E-S-N-A-9-3-V. And then also you can email me. 665 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,560 I'm strangesax.gmail.com. 666 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:33,600 So basically my last name, S-T-R-A-N-G-E-S-A-X at gmail.com. 667 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,200 And those are probably the two fastest ways to get ahold of me. 668 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:43,640 And I will be willing to just share experiences or help with any type of training or just 669 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,640 help anybody out to move forward in aviation. 670 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,120 This is not a money making for me. 671 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,380 This is purely because I need to give back to the community that has given me so much. 672 00:37:52,380 --> 00:37:53,380 That's really awesome. 673 00:37:53,380 --> 00:37:56,320 And by the way, when he says that he'll help anybody out, he really will. 674 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:57,560 The man will take a shirt off his back. 675 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,300 He's one of the nicest guys I know. 676 00:37:59,300 --> 00:38:01,640 So thank you again for being on here, Kevin. 677 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,980 But if you'd like to reach out to either one of us, meaning me and Carson, you can reach 678 00:38:05,980 --> 00:38:10,960 us at Twitter or Instagram at MrMartiniGuy for me or for Carson, it's at Carson underscore 679 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,720 A-V-17. 680 00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:18,080 And as always, we'd love for you to reach out to us via email, Brandon at AviationMentors.com 681 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,600 or Carson at AviationMentors.com. 682 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,640 And as a wrap up for the day, remember, we're here to guide you in your aviation journey. 683 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:52,640 So fly safe and enjoy the ride.