1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,000 Hello, I'm Brandon Mortini, a commercial pilot and flight instructor. 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,000 And I'm Carson Vasquez, I'm a private pilot. 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:15,000 And you're listening to the Aviation Mentors podcast sponsored by Stratus Financial. 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:21,000 So buckle up because the Aviation Mentors are taking off. 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:28,000 Welcome back everyone to another amazing episode of the Aviation Mentors podcast. 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:33,000 Today, we wanted to discuss some of the specifics of getting your instrument rating. 7 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,000 I know we've talked about getting your instrument rating once before, 8 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,000 but we just barely touched on it in a really short episode. 9 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,000 So we want to dive a little bit deeper and hopefully give you guys some content that's really useful, 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:49,000 especially on some changes that happened a little over a year ago that some CFIs are still getting confused with. 11 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:53,000 So there's obviously a ton of effort that goes into getting an instrument rating. 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,000 But like all your certificates and ratings, there are certain requirements that really have to go into it. 13 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:01,000 Well, there are a few things that we really want to discuss today. 14 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,000 The last time we talked about instrument ratings, there was really the struggles behind it. 15 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,000 I think I want to talk about that because I was having a particularly rough couple lessons before that. 16 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,000 I'm sure that's what it was, right? 17 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,000 It absolutely was, Carson. 18 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:19,000 And by the way, everybody, I hope you're enjoying my use of these little things that I found on our media today. 19 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,000 I think they're funny, so. 20 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:26,000 That's a matter, so we're going to keep using them. 21 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,000 We're here to keep ourselves entertained and you guys are all just a great bonus to it. 22 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:38,000 We talked about a lot of just the struggles behind it, but there's a couple of things we want to discuss today. 23 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,000 So let's start off with a quick refresher on what you can do with your instrument rating. 24 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,000 Well, what you can do with your instrument rating is fly an IFR, right? 25 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,000 I mean, that's the big thing that you want to do, instrument flight rules. 26 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:54,000 So that means you can actually file a flight plan and fly an instrument weather conditions. 27 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,000 So which means below VFR. 28 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,000 So that means you can fly less than three miles visibility. 29 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:05,000 You can fly less than three miles visibility and you can fly in the clouds. 30 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:11,000 You don't have to stay away from them and you don't have to keep your VFR minimums in whatever airspace you may be in. 31 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,000 So some airspace you can be right next to the cloud, but not touching it. 32 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,000 And some of them you have to be several thousand feet away. 33 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,000 So when you're flying IFR, you can actually fly straight through them, which is fantastic. 34 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,000 But guess what? When you're in a cloud or in low visibility conditions, you can't see. 35 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,000 So if you can't see, then you definitely need to be relying on your instruments. 36 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,000 So that's why it's called instrument flight rules or IFR. 37 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,000 You can essentially also move through different airspace a lot easier. 38 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,000 For example, you don't actually need a clearance through Class Bravo. 39 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,000 You're automatically cleared through a Class Bravo when you're on an IFR flight plan. 40 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:47,000 I did not actually realize that when I initially got my instrument rating. 41 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,000 I thought that I still had to be cleared through Class Bravo. 42 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:55,000 And I don't know how that got missed on my checkride, but somehow I didn't realize that and I still passed the checkride. 43 00:02:55,000 --> 00:03:01,000 So you can still not know everything after you pass the checkride and that's kind of normal, right? 44 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:08,000 Remember when you get a license or a certificate or a rating, it's really an additional rating or license to learn. 45 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,000 So you can learn a little bit more about flying and different things. 46 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,000 So don't be afraid to make a mistake. 47 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,000 Like I always say, there's no stupid questions. 48 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,000 The only time it's stupid is the first time because you'll never be stupid again. 49 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,000 And I feel really good about that because I won't be stupid after I ask the question, right? 50 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:27,000 And you also don't have to adhere to any specific weather requirements like I kind of talked about earlier. 51 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,000 So it also allows you can fly as a commercial pilot. 52 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:37,000 I mean, actually you can fly as a commercial pilot without being IFR rated, but it's really kind of restricts you on a lot of things. 53 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,000 And I don't know anybody that would hire you as a commercial pilot without an IFR rating. 54 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,000 It really just doesn't make any sense, right? 55 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:49,000 And you also will probably have an instrument rating if you want to become a flight instructor, right? 56 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:55,000 You need to be able to fly in the clouds and be able to teach people how to get out of a sticky situation, right? 57 00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:01,000 So that's how you can still do your three hours as a private pilot under the hood with a non CF-II. 58 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,000 You can do it with a just a CF-I. 59 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,000 You can even fly in the clouds with a CF-I. 60 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:11,000 It just doesn't count as double eye time towards your instrument rating later on. 61 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,000 So that in a nutshell is what you can kind of do with an IFR rating. 62 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:18,000 Oh, by the way, one other thing, IFR rating will also keep you out of dangerous airspace. 63 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:24,000 It'll keep you on what's called Victor Airways or T routes or depending on what type of flying you're doing. 64 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:30,000 But they'll keep you out of MOAs, military operating areas, and they'll also keep you out of restricted airspace. 65 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:39,000 So you'll never have to worry about that, whether it's restricted airspace all the way up to outer space or if it's just restricted airspace along maybe 2,000 feet or something. 66 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,000 It'll keep you out of all the restricted airspace, which is fantastic as well. 67 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,000 I mean, why wouldn't you want to get your instrument? 68 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:50,000 There's just plenty of positives to it, like the ability to get yourself out of sticky situations, that extra knowledge. 69 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,000 But we're called the instrument rating because of the instruments. 70 00:04:53,000 --> 00:05:03,000 So in terms of the plane that you're going to be training in, Brandon, when you're doing the instrument rating and the instrument training for it, does the plane that you're training in actually need to be instrument rated? 71 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,000 The answer is kind of. 72 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,000 There's really no such thing as an instrument rated airplane. 73 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:19,000 There's an airplane that has the tools that will allow you to either train for an instrument rating, which means it'll have like VORs and navades and things like that in it. 74 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:24,000 And it'll also have the pedostatic check and transponder check, right? 75 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,000 You need all of those things to make an airplane IFR. 76 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:33,000 It also has to be certified in a standard category aircraft for it to fly IFR. 77 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:41,000 So whenever you go look at your Cessna 172 or more Cherokee or whatever you may fly, that's a standard type of aircraft. 78 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:45,000 You'll notice in it that it says for VFR and IFR night. 79 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,000 It typically will say those night and day. 80 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,000 Actually, it'll say it in the aircraft or in your POH. 81 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:57,000 But if you go fly a light sport like my icon, it will say VFR day only or it'll say something like that. 82 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,000 But since it's a light sport, I'm not sure if it says that I would have to go double check. 83 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:07,000 But you're only allowed to fly IFR in a plane that was certified to be able to fly IFR. 84 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:12,000 Besides it being certified to fly IFR, it also has, like I said, it has to have all of the instruments that are needed. 85 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,000 And then it also has to have the pedostatic transponder check. 86 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:22,000 But outside of that, you can fly an airplane that was not originally certified to be IFR such as a light sport aircraft. 87 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,000 So I have a friend of mine who has an a vector harmony. 88 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:31,000 And with that a vector harmony, it is not instrument rated from the manufacturer in the FAA. 89 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:37,000 It strictly has the instruments in the aircraft for it to be able to fly simulated IFR. 90 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,000 So you can go to practice approaches all day long in it. 91 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:45,000 You can actually go into the hood all day long in it, but you are not allowed to fly that airplane in a cloud. 92 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:50,000 So you can do all of your training in that airplane and you can still get through all of it. 93 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:55,000 And then you can take your check right in that airplane as well as long as you never fly through an actual cloud. 94 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,000 As long as it's all hood time or simulated instrument time. 95 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:06,000 So is there a reason for it? I mean, it has all the capabilities aside from it just being not licensed for it or made for it by the manufacturer. 96 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,000 It's the rule. That's really all it comes down to. 97 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:14,000 I've heard talkings about light sports being able to fly IFR. 98 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,000 And to be honest, I think there's several light sports that should be able to be flown IFR. 99 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,000 Same thing with some experimental aircraft. 100 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,000 So the answer is, should they be able to? 101 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,000 I absolutely think they should be able to. 102 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,000 Not all, but some, especially ones that are actually capable of it. 103 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,000 That harmony that I'm talking about, I mean, it has a four-autopilot. 104 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,000 It can fly. It's a Garmin autopilot. 105 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,000 It'll fly the approach all the way down to minimums for you. 106 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,000 I mean, it's a really capable aircraft. 107 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:47,000 But also when you are flying in instrument weather conditions, it could be a little bit more bumpy. 108 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,000 It could have really bad turbulence. 109 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,000 You could accidentally fly into something that you want to. 110 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:56,000 And I could see how the FAA would probably see that as not being very safe, 111 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,000 because you're flying a really light aircraft into a turbulent situation. 112 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:05,000 And it's not really rated for that type of turbulence, for lack of a better word. 113 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,000 So that's why I think that they don't allow it, 114 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,000 but there should be some that they really should allow, honestly. 115 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,000 So I guess there's nothing physically stopping the plane, 116 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:17,000 except for the turbulence and, of course, the rule that you can't do it. 117 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,000 There should be nothing stopping it. 118 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:23,000 But while we're talking about IMC, it brings up another question I have. 119 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:28,000 Can you get your instrument rating without ever experiencing instrument-mere-longable conditions, 120 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,000 without ever going into the soup, as everyone likes to call it? 121 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,000 Absolutely, you can. 122 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:41,000 Most people, I've met, get their instrument rating without ever going into the soup or going IFR. 123 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,000 They never go into a cloud. They don't know what it's like. 124 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,000 They may live in a place that they don't get clouds very often, 125 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,000 so it's not really possible to do that, right? 126 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:55,000 I know that I had, I don't know, I think I had only like four hours or three hours of actual instrument, 127 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,000 maybe a little less than that, when I got my instrument rating. 128 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,000 And I think that most people I've ever met did not have any. 129 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,000 I don't think that's great. I really think that you should go experience IMC. 130 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,000 It's a heck of a lot different than flying with the hood on. 131 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,000 When you fly with a hood, you can cheat a little bit. 132 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,000 I mean, let's be honest about it. 133 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,000 You can side-eye and look outside the window and see if you're really level. 134 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,000 I mean, there's ways you can cheat yourself out of it, which I don't recommend. 135 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,000 I mean, you want to learn the skill, right? 136 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,000 You don't want to try to cheat yourself out of learning that skill 137 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,000 and letting your body learn the skill is really what you want to do. 138 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,000 You want to let your body learn the skill of instrument flying 139 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:35,000 and to ignore certain senses from your middle ear telling you, 140 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,000 hey, I'm turning left really hard, but in reality, you're going straight and level. 141 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,000 And if you turn right to counteract that, you're going to get into a spiral 142 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,000 or something that's not fun. 143 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,000 But I feel like when you're under the hood, you just have that tendency 144 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:51,000 to want to look out and it's so unnatural to not be able to see but fly an airplane. 145 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:56,000 It's true it is. I mean, that's why you need to really try to force yourself 146 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,000 to not cheat on that part of it, right? 147 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,000 You really should have that hood on and that's why I like the big hoods. 148 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,000 So some people use Foggles, which I use Foggles most of the time, 149 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,000 but if you use the big hood, the reason why we call it a hood 150 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,000 is because it literally is like a hood over your whole face. 151 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,000 And I wish you guys could see my hand movements right now. 152 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,000 Don't worry, eventually we're going to get to video and you're going to see 153 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,000 all of my hand movements and my facial expressions 154 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,000 and all the funny things that we do on this, right? 155 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,000 Yeah, just a few more weeks and we can see your face do it. 156 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:30,000 Exactly. And I'm enjoying this drum joke and different things way too much, 157 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,000 obviously, on this episode. Hope you guys are too. 158 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,000 But I think that's the difference between doing simulated hood time 159 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,000 versus actual IMC is you can't cheat. 160 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,000 You look out the window and that's when you actually start to really get disoriented 161 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,000 and it's what teaches you to look at your instruments and have your scan 162 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,000 do things the right way. 163 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,000 Yeah, that's true. Did you have any actual IFR Carson in your instrument training? 164 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,000 I know you have quite a few hours now. 165 00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:00,000 Yeah, I've got about 250 and 200 of them were IMC. I do a lot. No, I'm just kidding. 166 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,000 Yeah, right. 167 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,000 We don't live in Washington. 168 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,000 We do not know Southern California. 169 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,000 I get maybe 0.001 when I fly through the layer and during June Gloom. 170 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,000 But yeah, I think I have about probably about the same. 171 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,000 You did me to check right like five or six hours. 172 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,000 Yeah, I mean, I've got a lot more IMC this year than I have any other year. 173 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,000 I don't know if it's because of the El Nino year or whatever it's been, 174 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:26,000 but literally we had six months of absolute terrible weather in California. 175 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,000 I've never seen this terrible of weather in California. 176 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,000 It's been brutal. 177 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,000 That's been dark and gloomy and perfect time to do your instrument training really. 178 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:34,000 It really has been. 179 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,000 I mean, I know a lot of students that got their instrument rating that normally wouldn't have 180 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,000 and it's because their instructors willing to go fly IFR. 181 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,000 I know, by the way, it is legal. 182 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,000 I don't even think we have this as a topic, 183 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,000 but it is legal to go do your check ride, actual IFR, 184 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:54,000 but your DP has to be okay with it and not all DP's are okay with that. 185 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,000 I don't think I would be okay with that as a DP 186 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:01,000 because the liability transfers from the student, 187 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,000 now it transfers to me as the pilot examiner. 188 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,000 And if something goes wrong, I just don't want that liability, 189 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,000 especially where I would be out in my flying career. 190 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,000 So some DP's will do it and some will not. 191 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,000 So my personal preference, I don't think I would 192 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,000 because I just want to err on the side of safety. 193 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,000 It's what the FAA would want. 194 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,000 It's what I would want. 195 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,000 And there's a lot of people I think that would. 196 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,000 I think it would make for a nerve-racking check ride, 197 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,000 but before we get into the check rides themselves, 198 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,000 I know there's just a big change with the instrument requirements 199 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,000 to take the check ride. 200 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,000 And I think it happened about this time last year, 201 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:37,000 a couple of months before that. 202 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,000 But can you explain what that change was about? 203 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,000 Yeah, what Carson's referring to is a memorandum that the FAA released 204 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:49,000 in February of 2022 that overruled two prior interpretations 205 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,000 of part 61-65 Delta II II Charlie. 206 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,000 Yeah, I know, it's not mouthful. 207 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,000 It's written in there. 208 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,000 But you can go look at the forum and you can go find it 209 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,000 if you would like. 210 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:01,000 It's there. 211 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,000 But what it says, it says that the 250 nautical mile 212 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,000 cross country had to be done with three different kinds of approaches 213 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,000 with the use of navigational systems. 214 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,000 So before you had to do like a localizer, 215 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,000 you had to do a VOR and then you had to do a GPS 216 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:22,000 or you could have done an ILS, a VOR and a GPS approach 217 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,000 or something like that. 218 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,000 You just had to do three different ones. 219 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,000 But the previous rulings concluded that three different types 220 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,000 of navigation systems that had to be used. 221 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,000 And the other ruling was the precision approach, 222 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:36,000 radars and airport surveillance radars not to count as navigation 223 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,000 systems in terms of satisfying the requirement. 224 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,000 According to the FAA assistant chief counsel for regulations 225 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,000 in this memo, he quotes, quote unquote, 226 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,000 the regulations plain language requires three different types 227 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,000 of approaches, not three different types of navigation systems. 228 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,000 So essentially you can do three different types of approaches 229 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,000 anywhere. 230 00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:00,000 So if you go and do an ILS at ABC airport and then you go 231 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:05,000 to an ILS at RAL airport and then you do an ILS at Chino airport, 232 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,000 those count as three different types of approaches because 233 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,000 the regulation did not say three different types of navigational 234 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:12,000 systems. 235 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,000 So that's what's changed in that particular regulation. 236 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,000 So if you want to do three GPS approaches on that long-term 237 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,000 country, feel free. 238 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,000 You can do three if your plane has it. 239 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,000 I believe you can actually even do three with an autopilot if 240 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,000 you wanted to. 241 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,000 I will tell you that you will not be as good of a pilot if you 242 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,000 go to three of the same exact types of approaches at three 243 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,000 different airports. 244 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,000 And you use the autopilot all the way down to minimums every 245 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,000 time at that. 246 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,000 You should probably do it the way that it was interpreted 247 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,000 prior. 248 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,000 And you should do three separate different types of approaches 249 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,000 at three different airports. 250 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:47,000 It's a lot. 251 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,000 And I remember doing it for my instrument training and it's 252 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,000 not easy. 253 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,000 It really drains you. 254 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,000 And after that flight, you learn a lot about yourself and you 255 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,000 learn a lot about the airplane and you learn really a lot about 256 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,000 instrument flying because I mean, you're really doing it. 257 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:07,000 I mean, try doing a VR approach into Camarillo, Charlie Mike 258 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,000 Alpha. 259 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,000 By the way, everybody who's a pilot or studying to be a pilot, 260 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,000 you should go look up that airport and you should go look up 261 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,000 the VR approach to that airport. 262 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,000 It's an absolute nightmare. 263 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,000 You have a turn, twist, time to and travel talk the whole time 264 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,000 and you are twisting every time you pass a radial, you're going 265 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,000 to have to pass another radial and then descend at the same time. 266 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,000 And your hand is like constantly just on that OBS knob, just 267 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,000 changing your radial that you're trying to intercept. 268 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,000 It's really interesting, challenging. 269 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,000 And it's a really fun approach after you master it. 270 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,000 I don't think I mastered it on my 215 nautical mile approach. 271 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,000 And I don't know if I would have done that on my check ride, 272 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,000 but I can say I've done that approach several times in the 273 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,000 past. 274 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,000 I haven't been able to do it lately because the VR, which is 275 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:56,000 Formar, F-I-M, is the instrument, is the VR unit that we use to 276 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,000 check those radials and it's been out of service for a long time. 277 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,000 I mean, even when you told me you were going to go fly and do 278 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,000 some training a few months ago, you said it was out. 279 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,000 And I tried it, I think three weeks ago or something and I 280 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,000 think it was out then too. 281 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,000 So it's always out and I can't deal with that. 282 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,000 So unfortunately, I don't go there anymore. 283 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,000 Well, I started doing my training after this memorandum came out. 284 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,000 So I haven't really known anything different. 285 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,000 So if you can remember this far back because I know you're getting 286 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,000 older up there in age and especially because when everyone 287 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,000 hears this episode, it's going to be your birthday. 288 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,000 So just want to let everyone know. 289 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,000 Happy birthday, Brandon. 290 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,000 Thank you. 291 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,000 Yes, I will be older on the day that this comes out. 292 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,000 So thank you for the birthday wishes, Carson, for letting everybody 293 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,000 know this. 294 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,000 I'm so happy that 20,000 more people are going to know about 295 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:44,000 my birthday. 296 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,000 So I appreciate that. 297 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,000 Of course, it's the swizz of birthdays. 298 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,000 Happy birthday wishes you're going to get out of me. 299 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,000 Thank you. 300 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,000 So Brandon, if you can remember that that far back, what did you do 301 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,000 for your instrument check ride and what was that like? 302 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,000 Well, back in my day, not really. 303 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,000 So I couldn't help myself. 304 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,000 Hope you guys are liking this episode because we're doing it the 305 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,000 night before 4th of July at 10 o'clock at night, Pacific time. 306 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,000 So that's 1 a.m. Eastern for all of you. 307 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,000 And I know I've been up since around 6 a.m. this morning. 308 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,000 You probably about the same Carson. 309 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,000 So we're running on fumes here, but literally we've been prepping 310 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,000 for family stuff tomorrow all day and I had a lot of work to do 311 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,000 today because I was out on Friday. 312 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,000 So we're doing this really late tonight. 313 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,000 So we're a little bit, a little bit giddy, I think. 314 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,000 Winner's going to win, but we also discovered the sound effects. 315 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,000 So I hope that's to your guys' benefit. 316 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,000 Exactly. 317 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:35,000 Or detriment. 318 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:36,000 I'm not really sure. 319 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,000 Hopefully we can have our producer, Phil, help us tune those in. 320 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:40,000 A little bit more. 321 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,000 And I mean, maybe you can do it in post production. 322 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:43,000 Probably way better. 323 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,000 So what did the check right look like for me back, back when I did it? 324 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,000 It was, it was almost a decade ago now, a little less than that actually. 325 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,000 But instrument check right looked, looked very much the same and 326 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,000 prepping for that instrument check ride was very much the same. 327 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,000 I did it a lot later. 328 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,000 So I already had well over my 50 hours of cross country. 329 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,000 I had well over 40 hours of my simulated instrument. 330 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:10,000 And then because I was a slow IFR learner, I had well over my 15 hours of 331 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,000 instrument flight training with a CF double eye, which is what you need to do. 332 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:18,000 So you can do a lot of that cross country and simulated time with, 333 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,000 with a safety pilot in certain circumstances. 334 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:22,000 You have to log it correctly. 335 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:27,000 Like I've talked about in the previous episode, but you also have to have that 336 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,000 15 hours with a double eye. 337 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,000 So you can do a lot of stuff with a CFI, but the double eye stuff is really 338 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,000 where it needs to be, be done to, to finalize everything. 339 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,000 Right. 340 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:43,000 So taking the check ride was really, was really a great experience for me. 341 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:44,000 I was really nervous. 342 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,000 I was really scared for it because I, I was one of those guys who failed the 343 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,000 instrument written, I think two times before I finally passed it. 344 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,000 I'm not a really good written test taker at all. 345 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,000 The, the words on written test confused me always. 346 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:58,000 And it's just, it's not my thing. 347 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,000 I'm, I'm great at and I'm more than happy to admit that. 348 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,000 But as soon as I practiced and study, I always finished it. 349 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:09,000 So I, I finally finished my written, I went and took my, my IFR test and the 350 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,000 oral was a couple hours long and we touched on weather quite a bit because 351 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,000 that's what you're going to be flying and you're flying in different kinds of 352 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:16,000 weather. 353 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,000 And, and then taking the check ride, I did several different approaches. 354 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,000 I can't remember exactly which approaches I did, but I can tell you the 355 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,000 three airports that I did go to, to do the approaches. 356 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,000 I did an approach into Chino airport. 357 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:34,000 I did an approach into Corona airport, which was probably the VR alpha. 358 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:38,000 And then I also did an approach into a San Bernardino airport. 359 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,000 And that's because we were doing, we were doing that in San Bernardino. 360 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,000 And then my airplane had a DME in it. 361 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,000 It was Cecil 172 and had a DME. 362 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,000 So I had to do a DME arc as well. 363 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,000 And I know a lot of people don't have to do DME arcs because their airplanes 364 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,000 do not have DME. 365 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,000 But if you have GPS, it's probably going to be on your check ride. 366 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,000 So make sure you learn how to do a DME arc. 367 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,000 You can even do kind of a simulated DME arc if you're not going to do one of 368 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,000 those types of approaches, which is kind of fun. 369 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,000 I did not have to do one of those approaches, but I did after the arc. 370 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,000 And then obviously you have to do a bunch of hood time. 371 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,000 I mean, pretty much the entire check ride is under the hood for you to do. 372 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:21,000 And my DP actually like pretended he was ATC and I actually had a little bit 373 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,000 of trouble figuring this out. 374 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,000 I was like, you're simulating ATC or you are ATC. 375 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,000 I didn't know if I was just supposed to repeat things back to him or anything 376 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,000 or something like that. 377 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,000 So he was really helpful though. 378 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,000 He explained to me what we were doing a second time because obviously I was 379 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,000 nervous just like everybody is on a check ride. 380 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,000 But we did those approaches and we used all the navigational aids. 381 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,000 He had me tracking VRs and he had me do all the stuff that we had to do. 382 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:49,000 And luckily I got back down and I asked him how I did and I looked to my right 383 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,000 and Ernie said, he said nothing. 384 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,000 He just gave me a thumbs up on our taxi back. 385 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:59,000 And I just was, I remembered what I did on my first check ride. 386 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,000 And after I got the thumbs up from Andrea, I put my arm out the window 387 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:06,000 and she yelled at me in a nice way but yelled at me. 388 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,000 And I put my arm back in the window. 389 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,000 She said, we're not parked yet and you haven't passed yet. 390 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,000 That's what she told me on my private check ride. 391 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,000 So I made sure I didn't make that mistake on my instrument. 392 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,000 When I kept my arm inside, I didn't want to cool down no matter how hot I was. 393 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,000 It didn't matter. 394 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:27,000 So I ended up doing that and went in and I got a shiny new piece of paper. 395 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:34,000 And back then you actually, you'd actually take a hole puncher and punch a hole 396 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,000 in your existing certificate because it was no longer valid. 397 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,000 And I haven't seen many DPs do that lately. 398 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,000 So I don't know if that's a requirement when you get a new certificate anymore, 399 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,000 which is, I don't know, an interesting thing. 400 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,000 But they used to do it right where your, like the little logo is. 401 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,000 I don't, not really, it's like the FAA logo on the, on the left or right side. 402 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,000 I don't remember which side it's on, but they would take it and poke a hole right there. 403 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,000 So that was kind of the synopsis of my instrument check ride. 404 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,000 I mean, it sounds like there's a lot that goes into your instrument check ride 405 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,000 and I'm still scared for mine. 406 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,000 So I'll remember not to put my arm out the window though. 407 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:11,000 Thanks. 408 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,000 I was waiting for that one. 409 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,000 Yeah, you should have been. 410 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:19,000 Well, you know, as we discussed in, in one of you guys' favorite episodes, 411 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,000 15 things to do after your private pilot, getting your instrument rating is a great 412 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,000 next step in your aviation career. 413 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,000 And it allows you to really take flight in a variety of weather conditions and things 414 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,000 that you just can't fly in with only your private pilot license. 415 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:37,000 So another interesting thing that we see is the FAA is memorandum regarding that long 416 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,000 cross country requirement and it applies to the check rides as well. 417 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,000 So that, you know, you can kind of see the FAA is prone to adapting and evolving to 418 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,000 make things easier for us in our flight training. 419 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,000 I'm really grateful. 420 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,000 The FAA has been adapting to a lot of things. 421 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:53,000 They, they obviously adapt slower because they have to, it's the federal government. 422 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,000 They, they're going to work a little slower. 423 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:59,000 They want to, they want to do checks and balances, which is fantastic for, for everything. 424 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,000 But you're going to see the FAA make a lot of changes in the near future, especially 425 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,000 after we get a new administrator that's a full-time administrator. 426 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:11,000 I can guarantee we're going to see some, some sweeping regulations that have come out of 427 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,000 this, especially due to the pilot shortage, which status financial is helping solve by 428 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,000 financing more pilots. 429 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:22,000 But I think you're going to see different regulations in regards to minimums, in regards 430 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,000 to like ATP minimums, things like that. 431 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,000 But I'm not sure when that'll happen. 432 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:32,000 There's a lot of different, different companies and, and different regulatory authorities 433 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,000 and different places that don't really want that to happen. 434 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,000 So we'll see what happens. 435 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:41,000 But like Carson said, getting your instrument rating is really probably one of the best 436 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,000 things you can do as a pilot. 437 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:48,000 If you own an airplane, it's going to lower your insurance cost immensely, typically by 438 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,000 the time your next billing period is. 439 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,000 So try to get it before your next billing period. 440 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,000 If you are going to get an instrument rating, you own your own airplane. 441 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,000 But go get your instrument rating. 442 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,000 It's, it's fantastic to fly in a cloud. 443 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,000 It's really an interesting experience. 444 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:05,000 It puts your body in a place that you've never been before in the air is already abnormal, 445 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:10,000 but really being in the air and being in the middle of a cloud or your senses don't matter. 446 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:15,000 It's really an exhilarating process and it gets your blood pumping and it's really just, 447 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,000 I don't know if I would call it enjoyable right away, but it, but it is something that, 448 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,000 that you should experience and, and live, live life and go do it. 449 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:28,000 So I hope you got something out of today's episode on our deep dive into an instrument rating. 450 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,000 And if you want to hear something from us, please reach out to us. 451 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:36,000 By the way, this, this idea came up from, I'm in a group called the student pilot community on 452 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:41,000 Facebook and every once in a while I chime in on student pilot questions and comments. 453 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,000 And I don't know if it was today or yesterday. 454 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:50,000 I chimed in on a student's question and it was regarding using an airplane that is not certified 455 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,000 IFR to be able to fly and do training in. 456 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,000 And I thought that was a fantastic episode idea and I know we just touched barely on the instrument 457 00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,000 rating prior. 458 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,000 So I wanted to get into a little bit of more of a deep dive and really talk about what you 459 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,000 can do with that instrument rating and what airplanes you can use. 460 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,000 And that's really what kind of started this. 461 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,000 So ask questions, even ask them in those groups because we do see them. 462 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,000 I'm all over the Facebook and, and Reddit groups. 463 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,000 So I, I like to poke around and hopefully find them and Carson does the same. 464 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,000 So thanks a lot for listening today. 465 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,000 And if you'd like to reach out to either one of us, you can reach us at brandon at aviationmentors.com 466 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,000 or costa net aviationmentors.com. 467 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,000 And as a wrap up for the day, remember we're here to guide you in your aviation journey. 468 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,000 So fly safe and enjoy the ride. 469 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,000 That's all folks.