Welcome back to another Sci -Fi episode where
psychology and finances collide. Today we're
going to be talking about digital assets and
how you can look at your world of estate planning
through the lens of digital assets. And what
does that mean? We have attorney Emily Baggett
with us today who will be talking about that
with us. And just to kind of tease you a little
bit, we talk a little bit about what digital
assets are, but I just kind of want to quiz you
for a moment. Think about it. What do you think
those include? And I will say, I'll tell on a
group of folks that I did pull in a live class
not too long ago when I asked them to identify
just from their brain what they viewed as digital
assets. A lot of them were tying it to assets
that are already tied to a beneficiary designation
or to a payable upon death or transferable upon
death. So those aren't the digital assets that
we're necessarily talking about here. Maybe some
of them, but mostly the digital assets that you
don't think about on the day to day, such as
crypto, monetary accounts. points accounts, online
accounts, creative content, social media, shopping,
subscriptions, memberships, and even think about
your Android phone and your Apple phone, whichever
you subscribe to and actually where would that
go? So, Emily, it's so great to have you today.
I know that you have a disclaimer that you need
to read before we even begin and that is so legalistic
and I love it. That is the required disclaimer
states that the views presented today in anything
I say are my views and not necessarily represent
the views of the DOD or any of its components.
And if I do talk about certain products or services
during the podcast, I'm using them only as an
example and the DOD does not approve, endorse
or authorize any company as products or services
today that we talk about. So I always just have
to say that before I get started with anything.
Well, thank you, Emily. And I will say that Emily
did provide a podcast episode earlier if you
want to scroll down and find a an episode just
specifically on traditional estate planning.
This is not Emily's first rodeo on the Sci -Fi
podcast. So really I should say welcome back.
Thank you, Olivia. I'm glad to be back and I'm
excited to be here today to talk about something
that has become very, very important to me in
the estate planning world as an attorney as we
move into more. This is becoming a bigger and
bigger issue, I think, for everyone. And something
that we all need to be aware of is digital assets
and what that means and how you can protect yourself
and your family. And I got to give the audience
a visual. So during the financial symposium,
you provided a class called digital assets, your
role in a changing environment. And you could
hear a pin drop as you were speaking. Everybody
was fully focused on you. They had their phones
out. They were taking their own pictures. They
were ready to learn. They were hungry for this
information. The questions that you posed, the
hands that were raised, it was amazing. So I
want to know specifically what even got you involved
in providing this kind of training? Well, to
be honest, when I first read our will, when I
got to Redstone, there was a clause in the will
that I had been out of state planning and for
a little bit and there was a clause that I had
not seen and I said what in the world is this
clause so I started looking at it researching
it and then we were asked to the other attorney
in the office and I were asked to do a professional
development for Fort Rucker and I said well why
don't we talk about this digital assets clause
does anyone ever talk about it what it means
how you actually do it. And he said, no, I don't
really think so. And I started looking at it
from a more of a practical standpoint of what
does this mean for someone when you're actually
doing it? I mean, we see the clause in the wheel,
but does anyone ever explain this clause to anyone
when they come in? I mean, we check the box and
say digital assets, yes. But does anyone explain
it to the client when they come in and really
say this is what you need to do step one, two,
three, and that's where this kind of all came
about and where I got started when I first got
here to Redstone and it's become kind of my pet
project since then and making sure that we're
making sure our clients know about it and then
just in general when I talk to folks and that
meet my daily life. And if I'm understanding
correctly, this clause was the one that came
out in 2018? Well, it was the clause that we
put generally in all of our wills that does relate
back to the Revised Uniform Fiduciary Access
to Digital Assets Act that did pass in Alabama
that went into effect in 2018. So it does relate
back to that act. That's why it came about. So
yes, you're right. Okay. So seven years ago,
And I'm still, as a financial counselor, learning
more and more about digital assets. So it's not
something that is greatly known to the masses.
A lot of folks, if you were to ask what a digital
asset was, they might give you some good monetary
digital assets, like online banking and online
investments, but... When we really get into the
weeds, there are a lot of folks that don't even
know how to access how you would apply some digital
link to a family member that could take over
that in the future. Right. And I think that's
the challenge that we have as in the financial
world and legal world. where do you kind of put
that all together? Because I think it's been
so easy to say for the lawyer, well, this is
your legal advice and for the financial person,
this is your financial advice. But this is kind
of a component of it all kind of comes together
because everything has a password and it's our
username potentially in its own right, in its
own world. And how do we make sure that the client
or the family member knows how to use it? And
it's one of those things that there's not really
a right or wrong answer potentially. There's
different ways to get to the right answer. So
that creates another hurdle of when you don't
have a right answer because there's many right
ways to do something in this world. And I think
that's for folks like us. We have to just always
stay. I mean, I got ready for the financial symposium
in March for now in July. There's been things
that I found that have changed since in those
little bit of time frame when I was getting ready
to come talk to you today. And it's amazing how
fast things can change just in a couple of months.
And if that's frustrating for you and this is
your profession, this is something that you're
supposed to know, how frustrating is it for the
consumer who may have thought they knew where
to find this. And then yet again, it has changed.
So what I will say, what is tried and true, and
I know that you're going to provide some options
in the future here, but we're kind of similar
generation, our upbringing and where we are.
And I have to say that when I have worked with
widows or widowers, the thing that was most beneficial
was something that was written and that was available
to be held in hand. by a family member post death.
And usually that's in the form of like a digital
password keeper or a digital password booklet
where the family member has written down all
the online accounts and any other accounts that
may not be online, but here are all of the things
that I want you to have access to. And here's
the password today. but just know that that password
could have changed over several months. So that's
where now we get into even further in the weeds.
It's one thing to know where these are located,
but then how digitally, if that password has
changed, where do we go from there? That's one
of the exact issues is that, yes, people like
to write things down, but when you write things
down, Like you said, passwords are gonna change.
Are you gonna remember to update the password?
That creates, and I said earlier, we might talk
about some products, the password managers. That
is a product that is available out there. An
example is OnePassword. I had a client recently
in my office that they gave me permission to
share this. They've used that product for over
a decade now. They find it very beneficial because
it creates passwords for them. It's the 16 -digit
password. I mean, I guess I can come up with
a 16 -digit password, but I don't know about
you, but I use the same passwords over and over.
So if you probably could figure out... There
are probably four of them, actually. I probably
shouldn't say that. But if you probably could
create, you know, if you figure out what those
four are, I mean, they're not that, I mean, it's
pretty easy to figure out, actually, probably.
But, you know, I mean, honestly, if you could
figure something out about people and figure
out their rhythm, then you might figure out their
passwords. I mean, we're all told not to write
down your passwords anywhere. I mean, we all
have them stored probably somewhere fairly easy.
But you have to think about that too. So that
is another option to think about if you have
a password manager and there's different options
out there. There's some very secure options.
There are ones for family members that you have.
I was looking at some today that honestly, minimally
a month when you think about it long term, that's
you have to wait, I'm paying that a month. You
probably pay that to go through and get a cup
of coffee that when you go through a drive through.
That's a very good point. And what would you
say to the naysayers? Because you might have
some folks like me listening in the audience
like, oh, not another subscription, not another
thing that might put me at risk digitally for
someone if they do crack the code and get into
my passwords. What would you say to the audience
the greater reward for going ahead and paying
for that? We're going ahead and planning this
now. What kind of frustration would that save
the person who is left behind? Well, I think
as the person that's left behind, if you don't
know anything or say everything is kind of paperless
right now, you do know that you get the usernames
and passwords, but say mom or dad didn't forget
or forgot to tell you, well, there's the bank
password. They put bank account. Well, what if
mom or dad didn't tell you what bank it goes
to? So let's say, let's go to my phone and then
look in, looked in the apps where there's two
banks in here. Well, so I've got two banking
apps in here, so that's pretty easy. We probably
can tell the user and password will be one of
those two banks, but either one of those two
banks aren't gonna really help you. I mean, so
you have to think about those things. No one's
really gonna help you when it gets down to it.
You're already in a state of grief, and then
here we go on top of that. I mean, think how
many times you know you've entered the right
password, and it's, you know, you're like, I
know I've entered the right password, and it's
not clicking in for some reason, and how frustrating
that is. Or you know you get three chances to
enter a password, especially on the banking one
sometimes, and then you're locked out, you're
done. So then therefore, if you're locked out
of account, what happens? And then sometimes
they'll talk to you, sometimes they won't, sometimes
then maybe it requires a court order. So you
have to be very careful on some of these things,
what you're doing when you are accessing usernames
and passwords, that you're not making sure you're
not making any mistakes. So as the person that's
left behind, it is you want to leave them clear
instructions, but you also want to make sure
that they have access to everything they need.
To do those, follow your instructions of what
you want them to do. I think that's awesome.
And it's not just to save them frustration, but
it's also to get them your full estate as intended.
When you were providing the training and the
symposium, I too was hanging on every word. And
I was thinking, wow, you talk about not only
the monetary accounts, like when people think
of digital assets, this is where their mind goes
to online banking, investment accounts, credit
cards, or digital. payment accounts like you
mentioned PayPal and Venmo. But then you started
getting into points accounts. Where do your airline
miles go? That's cash when you really think about
it. That is an asset that could greatly and positively
impact this person's life. finally open the doors
for travel or what have you. Hotel points and
other reward points that we'll get into in a
minute, but having these in your digital portfolio
as well or your estate planning, I would say
estate planning guide or your digital password
keeper or the password manager that you're referring
to, what say you on that topic? When you think
about those we have so many folks that are government
employees or contractors and work for the Department
of Defense that you do have to go TDY a lot and
when you go TDY you get those points and I didn't
realize I talked to so many clients that you
know what we use ours they say to take our vacation
or we gift them to our children so they can take
a vacation. Those add up so fast that You want
to be able to leave those drill. It's basically
like you're leaving a free trip to you want a
free trip to Paris and you're walking away from
it. Would you really walk away from a free trip
to Paris? Would you want to not take that free
trip or free trip to wherever you want to go
around the world? But you have to think about
that how you don't want to leave a vacation because
a lot of times it is a vacation when you think
about it. You just have to pay for your food
and what happens when you get there. But sometimes
folks have that many points. and you want to
make sure again you're leaving a trip behind
that you want that last family trip that your
family could be taking for themselves that you
could leave them. You've left that behind that
they could have and I always call it the death
book. I always say have your death book. Sometimes
mine's called in case I get hit by a bus here's
what you need to know. So that's what I call
mine. Sometimes I have other ones. I tell clients,
name it whatever you want, but you have that
with all the things and all the instructions
and then separately have the book where everything
is for your passwords and things of that nature.
So everybody knows where everything is and your
heirs and whoever is going to handle things for
you know where they can find things. And as I
read through some of the terms and agreements
that you provided in snapshots. American Airlines,
Delta Airlines, it looks like United Airlines
off the top will allow you to transfer from 500
to 100 ,000 miles, but then others will not allow
you to transfer. So another what's in it for
me to getting my loved ones to create this death
book so hey I can take over with your password
with your account I can take over these miles
because some of them are non -transferable and
so that's that's something to consider as well
I mean a lot of folks would like to believe oh
well I'll just take care of that when that happens
surely we can transfer those and I have a funny
story for you I have someone in my life who recently
talked about person that he knows who is passing
and this person has had plenty of time due to
the diagnosis to plan their estate. This person
had a rewards account with a massage service.
Well, you are only allowed to transfer so many
of those hours of that service to someone else.
So how do you go around that then if you can
only use that? Now obviously we are not encouraging
any criminal or illegal activity whatsoever.
But if my husband passes and he has these reward
points and he's built this up I would like to
use those reward points. I would like to use
this. Whether it is for those massage services.
Now maybe massage is gonna be a little different
because you know female coming in rather than
a male, you know, different type of thing. But
then again, where I was going with that, a lot
of folks just have this belief that a business
or a company will have compassion on you and
just give you what you're asking for. But that's
not how the world works. No. And unfortunately,
they will stand on their terms and agreements
all day long. And they will just say, well, according
to terms and agreement number and spit it out
whatever number it is. And they won't really,
they don't really get past that, because they
hear so many, unfortunately, stories. And if
they did that, if they've been the rules, again,
you've always heard this, if you've been the
rules for one, you have to have been them for
all. And so they go by, this is what the rules
are. And that's why I always say when you are
looking at, say for example, the airline miles,
every carrier is different. Some of them will
allow a straight transfer to any family member.
One of them is just allow to the spouse. One
of them you have to pay to transfer. So I always
say look at the ones, look at each one of them,
their terms and agreement. Decide if you can
fly the one, in my opinion, fly the one that
allows you to transfer to anyone. That's the
one I prefer to fly. Again, I'm not endorsing
any one of them at all. And the same thing on
the hotel points. Really look at the terms and
agreements when you are making decisions. If
that is something, if you're a points person,
I'm a points person, except I like to earn my
points at Chick -fil -A because I'm a, you know,
my son and I eat at Chick -fil -A way too much.
I think I've said that before to folks. So, but
you know, but those kind of points are important
too. You know, there's food points. We haven't
gotten there yet, but you know, some people are
food points and you don't want to walk away from
that chicken sandwich either. So, and I think
that's, that is the, that's the best thing to
do. for the integrity and the character, right?
So that you don't feel like you're engaging in
any kind of illegal activity. If there were a
company that said, hey, yeah, these are non -transferable
upon death. I mean, there's discomfort in pulling
the wool over someone's eyes. And again, that's
not what we're encouraging whatsoever. But what
we are encouraging is at the outset, when you
are signing up for any kind of rewards program
to look and actually read the terms of agreement.
Yay! The points are transferable, whether it's
with your airline, your hotel. Look at those
things now. Look at them today. So perhaps you
go ahead and exhaust the points of the one that
is non -transferable. and then you create a new
rewards program with a company where they are
transferable. And who knows? If this podcast
reaches the right kind of ears on the business
side, whoa, there's influence there. Maybe we
need to update our terms of agreement just to
satisfy consumers. Well, that's funny that you
say that because there is a current documentary
on Netflix right now about a cruise that happened
way back several years ago and what happened
on this cruise and it was a horrible experience
for everyone on the boat and unfortunately at
the time Carnival Cruises did not guarantee that
you would have you know you would have running
water, you would have be able to use the bathroom.
And because of the sewage issue on the boat,
they did not, I mean, Carnival said stood by
the terms and agreements. I'm sorry, nobody could
sue. The terms and agreements said that you were
not gonna get, you didn't get to have that. Now
let me say, Carnival did go back and offer people,
I think, they did make some offers as far as
what they got. Not that anybody probably would
want to get on a Carnival boat again after that,
those three days. But the maritime lawyers that
were all ready to just jump on that and sue them,
They could not because of what everyone signed
when you signed on the dotted line and no one
looked at that clause, but who would have really
thought too that when you got on a boat that
there was going to be a fire on a boat and that
you would be stuck at sea for that many days.
But that is something now that has been updated.
So the pressure from the industry and after what
happened, the news pressure of those folks being
stuck on that boat for those three days. But
that's just one example of the pressures that
you can create from the Terms and Agreements.
from something like that. And not only do we
want to pressure businesses so that they actually
have terms and agreements that are satisfying
to all involved, we also want to pressure family
members to get off their duff already and do
something about their estate planning. I've had
several clients come in as we are talking about
in financial planning in and of itself. And as
we go through the different steps, okay, so we've
gotten through these topics. Now let's talk about
estate planning. Oh, I don't want to do that.
I don't have the money for that. And as I'm looking
at their spend plan and I see a surplus, yes
you do. And here's the what's in it for you if
you do this. And so that's all we're trying to
get across today. And so we're ending getting
close to our 20 minute segment. We don't want
to lose folks. We have a lot more to say on this
topic. So, Emily, I want to leave this episode
with you. What would you say to those folks as
we are putting that pressure on to the family
members to really start thinking, not just thinking
about it anymore, but actually taking action?
You have to think about if something were to
happen, what is the plan? I mean, we plan everything
in our lives down to the minute sometimes, every
day of our lives. So what is so different about
why are you not planning for what's gonna happen
when you're gone? Or what if something were to
happen to you? Say you were to have a stroke,
a heart attack. What's gonna happen to your spouse?
What's gonna happen? You're in the hospital for
days, months. What's gonna happen to your children?
Those kind of things can happen too. That's why
the estate planning documents are so critical.
because of the powers of attorneys, the advanced
medical directives. It's not just necessarily
about your will, what happens after you die.
It's about what happens if something happens
to you while you're still here and you can't
make decisions for yourself too. Perfect. And
just to kind of help allay some of the fears
that some folks may have, if we go back to the
digital monetary assets, some of that is already
taken care of and folks don't need to do anything
else. If it's an online banking account, there
usually is a payable upon death that the account
holder had to sign. Long ago was that. So it's
not just about docs in order or documents in
order. It's also about having those conversations
with your spouse or your loved ones. When was
the last time you updated that payable on death?
And like you said before, what is the name of
the bank and all those things? So, so yes, there
are digital assets that are already taken care
of, whether it's through that payable on death
or designation of beneficiary or transferable.
on death like such as with investments but again
having those hard conversations and then if those
are not tied to something already making sure
that you're just speaking to an attorney of what
the next steps might be. Next episode coming
up we're going to continue to dive into other
digital assets that you may not have ever considered.
digital asset. And if you found this podcast
helpful please remember to rate us wherever you
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