Hi, family. Welcome back to another episode of
the Prosecco Queens podcast. I'm your host, Teresa.
And today's conversation is one that holds a
lot of weight and a lot of heart. Before we begin,
I want to gently let you know that today's episode
touches on child loss and subjects that may be
triggering. So if you're in a tender place or
if this topic is close to home, please handle
with care and do what you need to do for yourself.
My guest today. is June Krahulik, an author,
advocate, and deeply thoughtful woman whose life
took an unimaginable turn in 2012 when her two
-year -old son Caleb passed away. That loss brought
Jane to a crossroads. In the midst of her grief,
she began writing, first as a way to cope and
eventually as a way to connect and help others.
In her book, Mama, You Don't Heal, June writes,
Congratulations, Mama. You're a part of a club
no one ever asked to be in and a part of a group
of women who are treated like they have the plague.
Yes, you are a mama of an angel, a child that
left way too soon. The day your child left this
world was the day your life stopped making sense.
June's journey through grief and loss and the
way she's rebuilt from there is one of resilience,
vulnerability, and purpose. June's first book
is a powerful and honest reflection of what it
means to live with grief whilst still moving
forward. It's not a how -to. It's a heartfelt
offering for women who are walking through the
hardest days of their lives, reminding them that
healing doesn't mean forgetting. It means honoring
and continuing. June's journey didn't end there.
She went on to study the mind and the many ways
we process pain and rebuild through her training
in multiple forms of therapy and the community
she created for other mothers. June has become
a quiet force, helping women not just survive,
but start to find themselves again after everything
changes. She also recently released her second
book, Whispered Promises, a love story that stretches
across decades, distances, and life's many turns.
It's a beautiful reminder that love in all its
forms can be both lasting and healing. So in
today's episode, we talk about identity. loss,
resilience, and the quiet strength that it takes
to rebuild a life with purpose. June's story
is one of grace, depth, and fierce love, and
I'm honored to share it with you. So take a breath,
wear something comforting, and join us for this
meaningful conversation. June, welcome to the
Percival Queens podcast. June, I know I gave
you background. if you would like to add any
color for the audience and if you wouldn't mind
telling us about your son, Caleb. Yeah, so obviously
I was in my late 20s when I had Caleb. Pregnancy
was fine, going fine at first. Towards the end
it kind of got a little shaky and I ended up
having a complete placental abruption when I
had Caleb. And obviously it wasn't caught, so
I had a complete placental abruption. And when
you have that placental abruption, your baby's
not breathing. So when I had Caleb, they got
him, you know, they saved him. Obviously I had
lost like three and a half pints of blood. I
ended up, obviously I was fine and I figured
that we lived together. One of the biggest things
with it was, you know, I had what society would
call a normal child. And when he was born obviously
because he had he wasn't breathing he had severe
brain damage so my child that was was going to
be society's norm is was actually special needs
so it kind of shifts things from there so he
had a lot of different different issues he had
cerebral palsy which is you know everybody knows
what that is and then he had microcephaly and
a seizure disorder and cortical blindness he
had like a whole bunch of stuff from that and
the doctors because he did live they shipped
him to an And basically they told us that, well,
they didn't tell me because I was locked out,
but told my husband at the time and my dad that
if he lived through 24 hours, then he would live
a while. But one night he would go to sleep and
he wouldn't wake up. So we told you that. Yes,
they told us that at the hospital. Well, they
told them that I was out and we were at different
hospitals. They were actually where they had
to ship him. They put him what's called on a
cooling blanket. Okay, basically a cooling blanket
brings the baby's temperatures down to hypothermia
levels and basically it's repairs their brains.
It slows down their their Yeah, it's like you're
like freezing and basically it helps repair the
brain and because he was an infant when the when
the brain damage happened your brain will Go
around the damages in your brain if that makes
sense yeah around appears around it so that's
a little psychology yeah so anyway they told
us that and for some reason i had ten in my mind
i just figured it ten because he had so much
brain damage so we just kind of started doing
what. Parents do learn to have children. Parents,
you know, with wheelchairs and feeding tubes
and everything and going to his doctor visits
every three months and everything. The night
that the day before he had all his little doctor
visits because he, you know, he had his, you
know, his. eye doctor, his heart doctor, lung
doctor, and just all these doctors. He went down
in Shands and Gainesville, Florida. I love them.
Went down there, got a clean bill of health,
and came back. That night, he went to sleep.
Everything was kind of normal, and we had to
take what we call shift work. Because Caleb was
the special needs kid that would wake up, one
of the special needs kids that would wake up
in the middle of the night. So, and then we had
to change out his, you know, add food to his
feeding tubes and stuff. And my ex -husband was
on duty. That's what we called it. Right, right.
You know, and he, I woke up to him screaming.
I woke up and, you know, I ran downstairs and
I'm like, what's going on? And he's like, Caleb's
not breathing. And like, I think any parent,
like when hearing that, like I couldn't fathom
what he was saying to me. I'm like, are you joking?
Like, you know, and it was just like, are you
joking? That's the only thing I could tell him.
He said, no. I ended up going downstairs and
dial 911 and threw the phone down. Cause where
we're from, if you dial 911 and don't answer
and it's an open line, they come. And then I
went into his room and I took him off of his
bed and I started CPR on him. And I did CPR on
him until obviously the EMS got here and we,
they took him obviously and I've been in law
enforcement for almost 20 years now and I knew
everybody that was out here and I know the way
things are worded when it's not good. Right.
And here where I live, if a child dies, it has
to be investigated. Makes sense. Even if it's
not suspected. Right. And we were sitting here,
we were trying to get ready to go and one of
the officers that I knew said we have to wait
for Alicia. and she was the investigator and
I knew who she was. And I looked at him and he
looked at me and I knew, I knew what that...
Yeah. Yeah. And obviously, you know, we finally,
I finally was like, hey, just let me sign something
saying Alicia and you guys can stay in our house
and we'll go. And they obviously let us do that.
And we went to the hospital. And when we got
there, a guy called my name I work with. And
I told him that my son was just brought in. He
looked at me. I looked at him. We knew what was
going on. Obviously, my husband at the time had
no idea still. I tried to explain to him in the
car and he wasn't having it. So I just kind of
let it be. And they shuffled us to a room. and
the doctor came and said that they had done everything
they could to save him and he just didn't live,
he didn't survive. Autopsy when he came back,
I guess one of my big things was I wanted to
know what stopped. Was it his brain? Was it his
heart? Was it his lungs stopped? When the autopsy
came back and it was, you don't, we don't know.
The only thing we can tell you is he passed away
from the trauma, he endured. the years when he
was born. There wasn't a particular catalyst
at that point. Yeah, they couldn't tell us what
it was. And that's kind of where my journey started,
because I wanted that answer. I thought that
that would give me some kind of closure, was
that answer of what's... But I didn't have that.
I couldn't... I know that was 11 years ago. Yeah,
to 2012. Oh, longer than 11 years ago. That's
right, 2012. I still am so sorry. what you went
through as a parent is unimaginable. It's just
absolutely unimaginable. And I know we had like
talked beforehand, it's just, that's your heart
living outside your body. And no matter how old
they are, when they're out in that world, you
can't protect them the same way. And that's always
a parent's biggest fear. I mentioned to you as
well, reading that part of the story in the beginning,
was openly, openly physically crying because
my daughter is going to be 19 and my son is going
to be nine and I still check on them at night.
Yeah, I still check on them and make sure they're
they're breathing, you know, not like when they're
babies, you do it all the time with their babies.
I still do it, you know, like I still sit there
and make sure you know, and my daughter has a
giant loft bed and I walk up, walk up just because
I can't see, you know, so I can't imagine that
feeling and for anybody that has gone through
that or will go through that, my heart just goes
out. It goes out to you. This book, the title
of your book, Mama, You Don't Heal, is both powerful
and poignant. Before I go into my first kind
of question for you about it, I do want to read
a passage on page eight. So you say, I think
we expect that we are one day going to wake up
and just be okay, that there is a healing and
we are going to go back to normal. back to the
way it once was. I've never been good at sugarcoating
anything, so I'm going to be honest. There is
no healing from child loss. To even suggest that
anyone would frame the term healing with child
loss is ludicrous. Newsflash. I have said the
obvious. Ladies, we don't heal. We learn to deal
with our child loss. So I set out to figure out
this healing. only to realize I had to figure
out that there is no healing. It is instead about
learning how to love life and rebuild it around
your loss, which I have done and continue to
do daily. I was a hot mess in my journey, not
gonna lie. But my hope is to help you ladies
down your path and in the journey you will now
travel. So at this moment, all these years later,
what does healing mean to you now? And how has
that definition changed since the early days
of your loss? I think I think in the early days
of my loss, I thought that I had been through
losses other than child loss, obviously. I always
thought that you heal, you move on, and you know,
you're going to be okay. And I guess in a way
you do with other losses, you know, you have
the funeral, you have the, you know, the wake
or whatever you do, and it's done, you know,
and you just move on. But like with child loss,
I thought that was going to be the same way.
That's exactly what's going to happen this time.
When I was started out with it, I'm like, I don't
know how I can do this. I don't know I don't
know Throughout the journey where I thought that
okay, I'm gonna be okay. I'm gonna heal and learn
that okay Well, I'm not gonna heal from this
what society would call heal and move on and
be happy -go -lucky How can I deal with it? You
know, like how can I learn to live a happy life?
Cuz I don't want to be miserable And he wouldn't
want you to be yeah, and I don't want to feel
how deep and dark I was feeling so how do I do
it and that's when I started doing everything
that I you know, I did and I'm sure we can do
it later, but And I learned later on in my life,
loss, when it wasn't right after, you know, it
was years down the road that, okay, I just got
to learn how to deal with it and deal with my
triggers that I have and deal with all of the
things that are going to come up, like his birthday,
his death date, you know, maybe a place that
I go, maybe a smell, some woman it smells. Yes.
You know, when he was, he would have been 16.
you know driving he's not driving now or when
he turned 13 I actually talked to his Caleb's
dad my ex and we're like wow he would have been
13 this year you know dealing with those certain
days and trying to honor it right and that's
what I learned later on is like okay I'll never
accept that I'm going to heal from it but I had
to learn how to deal with it and now going from
I thought I was going to heal Now I know that
I just need to deal with everything that comes
in my path, I guess you can say. So with that
being said, was there a specific moment or a
turning point that led you to begin writing the
book? Or did it just emerge slowly over time?
I can remember when I was maybe a few months
into my loss and just feeling everything I was
feeling. I knew I wanted to write a book that
soon. I wanted to write a book about it and I
think it was a book about me with times. I guess
back then it would have been more of like times
with Caleb and just having those memories written
down so I never forgot them. But I knew I wanted
to write a book back then and I'm glad I waited.
I'm really glad I waited because like I was so
angry back then but you know I knew I wanted
to write a book way back then but it would have
been different if I would have wrote it way back
then. And one of the guys that I actually work
with, he passed away during COVID and I was with
his mother and father and his wife and just talking
to his mother because obviously I had already
gone through child loss and I had already started
my group. I was like, I'm just going to do it.
And when I was up there in Washington, DC, actually,
for the law enforcement memorial, I started writing.
I wrote the first three chapters in that in the
book when I was there, actually. And that was
the time when I was talking to her and just she
was going through so much that I had already
been through. And I was like, no, this is it.
I'm going to do it now. And that's when I decided,
you know, there's two things about what you just
said that I think about in any kind of. loss
or grief, which runs the gamut, right? And I
think that writing, whether it's a book, whether
it's journaling, whatever it is, is such an amazing
outlet, right? Because you can see the progression
of the anger of the, and we'll talk about it
later. the stages of grief and when you're ready
and in your case as you can see sometimes it
just falls into place like you're just ready
at that point you know some people believe in
higher power like i do and people just believe
that that's just what happens and i believe sometimes
these things just are ready at that moment like
at that moment is when you're supposed to you're
meant to do something Like, so that that makes
complete sense to me. I want to talk a little
bit about the grief, right, and the complexity
of it. And I'm going to start with a passage
or two from page 28 and 29. Like I said, I had
so many of them. I was like, my ink was actually
starting to run out. I had to switch pens. It
was so funny. Not funny, but you know what I
mean? Oh, yeah. so this says losing a child is
a huge shock and remember when all of this happens
our mind is not sure how to react our mind knows
that it is an event that there needs to be a
feeling assigned to it and it is trying to figure
out what to feel in the first moments weeks and
months into your child loss don't evaluate how
you reacted i've spoken with mamas who have so
much guilt wrapped around the fact that they
didn't cry or they didn't do a particular thing
right at the moment they found out they feel
guilty they feel horrible that they did not react
a certain way they feel they did not love their
child enough or they weren't a good mom mama
your mind is trying to process everything that's
going on don't think you're not crying or being
emotional has anything to do with the love for
a child or the kind of mother you were it is
just a reaction and nothing more mama if i can
tell you anything it is to cry and grieve openly
no one is judging you no one is thinking anything
less of you and no one is worrying about anything
but you It is okay to release every bit of the
tears you have for your child. Don't feel obliged
to hide and feel your true emotions alone, because
when you do, this is where the loneliness starts.
What I found so interesting and so deep about
this specifically is I watch a lot of things
like SVU, for example, right, which is one of
my favorite shows. And you, of course, you're
in law enforcement, so you can relate to this.
There's always that feeling of, well, they must
have some sort of guilt, someone who committed
a crime. right or so because they didn't have
a particular reaction right we told them their
so and so got lost we told them so and so was
not around or whatever the case may be or this
person died and did you notice how they didn't
cry they didn't react like a person who you know
who would be in deep grief you know but not everybody
feels the grief the same way especially initially
so your book acknowledges the ongoing nature
of the grief and the stages of grief which i
just had mentioned and that it doesn't follow
a timeline so How do you help other mothers sit
with the discomfort of that truth while still
encouraging them to move forward, especially
when they feel like they didn't react appropriately
in the beginning? Well, one thing I put in the
book is my reaction. I was very stoic because
you've got to remember I was in law enforcement
and I knew everybody and no one had ever seen
me get upset or reaction. I've always been very
even keel, get it done and I thought that I had
to hide it. And that was, that's probably the
worst thing I could have done. But I think that
I wanted, basically I wrote the book raw. You've
read some of the stuff. It's very raw. And I
wanted to know that, hey, there's somebody else.
Like if you feel bad for not having a reaction,
you know, when you found out, because I did not,
I did not cry for, I mean, I went through the
whole thing. I did. CPR my son i hate it you
know me i did like all the pilot it's like. It
was and you know i did not cry you know i don't
think i lost it until i got home no i lost it
when i saw my parents because they were crying
and i just wanted people to know that it's not
it's not something that. you know just because
you don't react a certain way doesn't mean that
you're gonna you know you're wrong for doing
it and I wanted to write it raw so they know
okay I'm not she's not sugarcoating it and I'm
okay for the way I reacted and I think that when
we start doing our loss and we start going through
our loss we try to put every bit of guilt that
we possibly can on a bad mom because I didn't
do this on a bad mom because I didn't do that
and I one of the biggest things I tell them is
just stop you know just stop your slave is clean
you know what I mean Like, you loved your child,
you're going to go through this process, whatever
you did, okay, it is what it is, you're being
the best mom you could possibly be. You just
gotta forgive yourself. If that's what it is,
then just forgive yourself and move forward.
Because for the most part, we think we're bad
parents, but our children adore us. You know
what I mean? But I think, I think the best parents
think that they're the worst parents. So I guess
that's it. That's one of the biggest things with
it is, is like I try to tell them, okay, you
got to stop, you got to stop with that. And I,
and I did it. And then like, I use examples in
the book because I do, I did it a lot, you know,
I'm like the, the walking way not to do it. Like
I'm that person, but you know, you know, it was
a harder way for me to walk, but I hope that
being so raw and being so open with it. that
I could help them. And I guess that's where I
go with it, you know, hey, I did the same thing,
but it's okay, I still love my son. And you did
mention that later on in the book as well. You
do mention that, you know, sometimes again, with
the stages of grief, because, you know, you mentioned
the stages of grief. And I think there's normally,
it's the seven stages of grief, I believe, right.
And I've talked about that on other episodes
as well, because I had basically the death of
a marriage, you know, I'm saying partner betrayal,
trauma, PTSD, things that I never in my life
thought I would go through. And I remember still
talking years later, I still at times find myself
again, we talk about the healing that is not
linear, right? You can be doing great. And so
I can't imagine that any part of you could ever
feel like you are healed from something that.
traumatic, right? Just the whole experience in
general. And later in the book, while you're
talking about the stages of grief, you also talk
about how moms, some moms and not just moms,
of course, parents in general can say all those
things like, I'm a terrible mom. I can't believe
this happened. What did I do to my kid? I shouldn't
have let them buy the motorcycle. I shouldn't
have let them, you know, jump on the trampoline,
whatever it may have been, everything in hindsight,
you're going to go back and say, it's my fault.
It's my fault. When the reality is You have to
let your children grow. You have to let them
be who they're supposed to be. And you have to
let, you know, hopefully you're able to make
what they're able to make all the right decisions.
And then sometimes, unfortunately, nature has
another has another for whatever reason, unfair
as it is, you know, you mentioned something that
brought me back to something in my life back
in September or so my daughter, she had just
started driving about six months before I get
a call at seven o 'clock in the morning. She's
on her way to school. and I get a call from a
number. I don't know what it is. I'm sleeping.
I'm at home and I didn't hear. I didn't even
hear the phone and I'm getting that. I'm getting
a text message. I'm getting cold. Like what is
going on from these numbers? I don't recognize
and I finally get through to my daughter. She
had gotten a severe accident. one of the things
that, you know, and it made me think about it
because you talk about the motorcycle just as
an example, right? These calls you pray that
you never have to deal with, right, as a parent.
And thank God, I mean, by the grace of God, that
the car was totaled, but she had just a couple
scratches. Thank God for the seatbelt and things
like that. And I remember me. Just like you had
said, I thought about this, that autopilot, that
numbness. My only thought was there was no, there
was no reaction other than I got to get to her.
I got to know where she is. What is my next move?
There was nothing. We're at the hospital. I couldn't
even like, I saw her. She was okay. Even then
I didn't go grab her because I didn't know, you
know, like there was just so much going on. I'm
like, she's okay. She's there. We're here. We
leave the ER a couple hours later. We pulled
into my parking spot in front of my house, me
and her. I look over at her. and the floodgates
hit. It was that adrenaline that finally came
down. And I realized my kid could have been gone
split second. And I cried for about three days.
Yeah, I cried for about three days. And then
we had to go and get the rest of our stuff. The
car was towed to a lot. And before they impounded
it, we had to go get whatever the stuff she had
in there. And I go with her. And this car is
the first time we've seen it up close, even her.
She was very viscerally like didn't understand
how she was OK. Yeah. And I just again, I'm in
Let's just get the stuff. It's raining outside.
Let's get whatever stuff. And I'm in the car
with glass everywhere. And I'm just trying to
get her little pictures, you know, little teenagers
car, you know, her little, her little things.
And I get her home and we get home and my ex
-husband comes to the house and I'm telling him
about it. All of a sudden in my head, I'm not
picturing the car. And there was a little there
was a picture of her and her friend, like, you
know, the pictures from those machines, you have
the four pictures that grow. And it was under
it had been under the driver seat. It had been
pinned. And it was something I grabbed that.
And I'm getting a flashback and I'm thinking
about that. And I start to ball. And he's like,
what's wrong? I said, I just realized there are
parents that have to do that and they don't get
to come home with their kid. Yeah. So the idea.
that we're supposed to have some kind of reaction
right away is really sometimes a hard one to
sit with because whatever the outcome may be,
there's always that autopilot, that numbness
you feel that at some point. for some people
is going to hit you in a way you may not realize,
you know, and I had to force her. She didn't
want to get help for it. I was like, you need
to accept this. You need to work through it.
There's going to be a lot of feelings of guilt
and all kinds of other stuff too. And eventually
she had a full on anxiety attack months later.
That just all, it was a lot of stuff that happened,
you know? So I tell that story purposely because
I really emphasize what you say that we whether
parents or anything else, sometimes there's no
right way to do anything in those moments. And
you don't know how you're going to react in those
moments. And God bless you for getting through
that. I know we were just talking about healing
and not being linear. And you mentioned that
healing doesn't mean forgetting. Yeah, how can
mothers honor their children's memories? I know
you talk about you wanted to make their own legacy,
right? So how can you honor your child's memory
while still making room for the joy and purpose
and growth in your own life? Yeah, that's it's
kind of complex, but I'll go through it I'm pretty
I'll try to go through fast But I guess I guess
I got to the point in my journey where I knew
I didn't want him to be forgotten but I didn't
know how to do it. And I guess the way that I
started to look at it as I was going through
it more is he dies the day that he died unless
I do something to keep his memory alive. And
that's where I say that you have to keep their
legacy alive. Because us as mothers and, you
know, a father or who else, we're the only ones
that are going to keep their memory alive. We're
the ones that know the best stories, you know.
We're the ones that know everything about them.
And I guess that's that's where that comes from.
You have to create a legacy because I don't want
to say that the day, you know, March 20th, you
know, of 2012 is the day that he died. And that's
it. no more and I didn't want to live like that
and I don't think I could have lived like that
you know putting them in a box and just pushing
them away you know so the way that I did it was
like for a while I would you know I would always
go to the grave on his birthday and his death
day and well I didn't go those days it was usually
around those days because I didn't want to go
that day it's just sad but you know I'd bring
a balloon or whatever and then um as time went
on obviously I got to be able to wear I was I
was able to talk to him and then you know he
you know people I know so many people that know
Caleb, but never met him a day in his life now.
And a lot of people that I was friends with that
knew Caleb, I'm not with anymore. You know, and
you meet new people and you know, it goes in
and out. You know how friendships go as we get
older, but you know. I keep his memory alive
by talking about him, obviously by the book.
There's thousands of women that have bought that
book that know my son now. Obviously, you know
my son now from how I saved him. I wanted to
do it that way, and I wanted to share my story
to help other women. That's how I honor him,
but there's so many different ways. there's a
lady and I can't think of her name she does a
butterfly release every year so everybody pays
like you know whatever it is and they do it a
certain day and they release a butterfly and
say the child's name or you know there's people
that do fundraisers they do I mean fundraisers
um there's people I've seen that they have they
have tattoos yeah I mean there's just and I and
I actually have one on my leg of I had I just
got it changed, but it's a it's a like a pocket
watch looking and it has this time of death and
You know people do stuff like that that there's
just so many things you can do out there Light
a candle instead of a place setting for them
during the holidays I guess like the big thing
for me is instead of remembering the death date,
which we always remember The last memory you
have of a person. Of course. If you think about
it. And the last memory you have of that person
is the death. So instead of that, I always tell
people to remember the funny times, the good
times, like we took Caleb to the Bahamas, especially
his child to the Bahamas, you know, and Caleb,
you know, he went and did this and he played
in the pool, you know, I say played in the pool.
But, you know, I like to remember those times,
the time it up when they said he couldn't instead.
And that's what I try to tell them to do too,
is like honor them by the good times and maybe
the funny times if you had a child that was older
and not that death date because our mind is going
to tell us when we go, Caleb, we're going to
think of the last time. You got to kind of train
your mind not to think about the last time, remember
the good times and not the death. Because obviously,
that's final if you remember the death. In any
direction, that's traumatic, right? Like, you
don't want to have that traumatic memory and
those moments and the what ifs and all those
because then I think that's harder to move from
and to do better from when all you think about
is the worst the worst day of your life right
i think that that will always be the worst day
of my life i can't imagine and i definitely couldn't
imagine it would it wouldn't be i know we talked
about before and and i want to just i want to
preface this by saying to the audience because
i know there's always people that have something
to say we are that we are not comparing um what
i'm about to say to the loss of a two -year -old
a nine -year -old god forbid a 16 -year -old
a 35 -year -old right But when you lose a child
at any stage, there's always, because you have
that hope. And I mentioned to you earlier, before
my son, I had lost the pregnancy. And I remember
at that time, I was only in my early 30s. And
I remember at that time, surprised at how much
I hurt from it. Yeah. I say this story because
we... have moments where people try to think
they're going to fix your grief with well -meaning
words, but they end up hurtful. And I remember
being actually sick from it, from the hurt of
it, not realizing I was going to have that reaction.
And I didn't realize I wanted to have had another
baby that bad. That it, you know, there's just
things you don't know until it got forbidden
happens, right? I had a coworker. a boss at the
time. And nobody had known, obviously, I wasn't
telling anybody my business, but I just for weeks
afterwards, I was not myself. So she knew something
was off. And she said, she brings me and she
said, Teresa, she was like, what's going on?
So I came out and I told her and in her well
-meaning way, she says, well, at least you have
your daughter. And I said, yeah, I guess you're
right. And I understand what she was trying to
do. Yeah, right. I adore to this. I adore my
daughter. She's my life. It was me and her. It
was always me and her. Right. But that doesn't
negate that loss, that grief, that feeling of
the hope, you know, the love you already have,
you know, and the idea that you're now have to
code switch immediately. You know what I'm saying?
And so how do you navigate even now, maybe moments
where people don't maybe don't know what else
to say, they say something that kind of still
hits you viscerally. When it first happened and
I can still remember this to the day because
obviously I knew the coroner too and I had to
get you know you have to get like the death certificate.
I had to get something I don't think it maybe
it was the death certificates from the coroner
and I can remember him telling me well you couldn't
and he knew Caleb he was like well you couldn't
have done that the rest of your life. What do
you mean? That was my that was my son, you know,
and I can remember so mad about that, you know,
just like, how could someone say something like
that, you know? And, you know, oh, at least you
can have more children. That's another that was
the other thing she had to me. Thank you. She
said the same thing. Well, you could you're young.
You can always have more. And I'm like, and it's
different. You know, you, you kind of said that
it doesn't like we either depending on what age
they are, we grieve what they could have been
and not knowing what they could have been. And
then if they're older, you grieve all the times
you have what had with them. It's just, it's,
it's, it's the same gist, but back then it used
to get me really mad. But as I started going
through and obviously it's been a long time now,
but people don't know what to say and they want
to try to say something to help you. And they
mean, I've noticed from a lot. of people, they
don't mean anything from it. And now, you know,
I just, I just shake it off or whatever. But
those comments, especially when you're first
going through it, it makes you just so angry.
God makes you angry. But as you've gone on, I
just, I know now that people don't know what
to say, but they're trying to, like you said,
fix it. They're trying to make you feel better
and they mean nothing by it because the people
that would say something snotty to you about
anything in life, when it comes to child loss,
they will, you won't even hear from them. This
is true. They just don't know what to say and
they're just like, whatever, you know, and they
go the other direction. I've noticed that. I
had a lot. I noticed that a lot, but now I'm
fine. I'm just like, I had to realize that they
don't know what to say. So they're trying to
make it right. And, you know, I kind of shake
my head or, you know, depending on if I need
to answer in this conversation or I just tell
them, you know, thank you or, you know, some
people say, well, at least you have your daughter.
Like you were talking about, at least now you
have Bella is my daughter's name. And I'm like,
yeah, you know, I do have her. she saved me and
you know I say stuff like that and kind of veer
away from the subject but I think as you go along
and you hear the crazy comments that you hear
you just kind of are like they don't know what
to say and I had to realize they don't know what
to say it's okay they're trying to be well intentioned
just don't know how to just don't know how to
approach it right yeah I mean it doesn't make
it easier because sometimes still you're just
gonna like completely say that but yeah you know
you just kind of just kind of go with it. Tell
me what you think is more important, community
or isolation during a time like you went through.
Yeah, depends on your personality. And I'm a
big, big person that believes in your personality
is going to kind of be how you grieve, your personality
is going to kind of veer you towards your grief
and I'm really big with personalities, but I
am an introvert. So everybody, all the ways they
tell you to heal is go to group therapy, go talk
to people about all that, watch children, go
to a therapist and individual, a therapist individually.
I wasn't going to do that, you know? So I had,
I, that's why I did all the therapy myself. I
read all about it all by myself and my lovely,
but that's how I grieved. I didn't want to be
around anybody. My ex -husband, he wanted the
community. He wanted the togetherness. So we
grieve totally different. So I think it depends
on the person and it depends on your personality
too. For me, I'm more, I internalize it and I
have to analyze it and I have to really sit back
and think about it where other people want that
group. That's how they're extroverts. That's
how they strive. You know, that's how they thrive
in life is my help from others. So I really believe
it. Depends on your personality and but for me
I wasn't happening. I was I was not going to
do the group therapy I was not gonna go I had
people come over my house like tons of people
I still don't even know but it wasn't just me
and at first I felt bad and I won't get there
But then it was like no, I gotta do this myself.
That's another thing you feel guilty You feel
guilty and you feel like you oh you feel like
you owe people to because you feel like oh they're
they're reaching out i have to owe them the courtesy
of acknowledging it right yeah and it was it's.
It's impossible. And for me, the best thing for
me to do was to get in my little bubble and be
by myself and analyze everything. I did have
my little miniature dogs in, but, you know, just
sit there and analyze everything myself. That's
all the comfort you needed. Yeah, it was, man.
That dog was like awesome. But, you know, that's
how I grew. That's how I did it. That's how I
dealt with it. And I wanted to learn for myself.
I didn't want anybody telling me how I should
feel. My ex -husband was differently. He needed
that. he needed the people there. So I think
the easiest answer is that it's going to depend
on your personality. It really truthfully is.
I always say when we think of myself though,
because I call myself an introverted extrovert.
Like it depends on the situation, depends on
who I'm with, the time, it depends on everything.
When my household completely fell apart in the
past couple of years, in the beginning I tried
to keep it mostly House there was only very few
people i disclose to and i had really not two
weeks before all of them. discovery, that's what
they call it. I had said, you know what, I'm
going to go back to therapy because there's some
stuff I need to work through, right? And then
two weeks later, no exaggeration, my world fell
apart in obviously a different way. And I remember
it spending the next two years, me and my therapist,
you know, like it was the one -to -one and that
is what helps me. And then, you know, slowly,
like I was, you know, the people closest to me,
you know, and it wasn't until the podcast that
I really start to talk and have other people
know what was going on because it's the same
thing. It's like, it depends on you as a person,
what you're feeling in that moment. And not therapies,
not for everybody. Groups, I can, I know it sounds
similar to say, I can't stay in groups sometimes.
You know, I almost feel like to me sometimes
it's more of a downer than it is helping me.
Right. And other times I feel guilty. Well, I
should I feel so guilty because that person's
was so much worse than mine. And you know what
I mean? Oh, well, yours couldn't be that bad
because look what they've survived. You see what
I'm saying? And I think sometimes we we don't
understand that pain is relative, right? It's
all relative to you and your experiences in life,
you know, and sometimes group therapy, people
don't get out of it what the idea of it is. So
handling that really is just unique, as you say,
to each person. You know, many women lose a sense
of themselves in motherhood. We all do, even
without the trauma. After such a profound loss,
how did you begin reconnecting with yourself?
Well, that's also very complicated. Obviously,
I had my loss and my grief that I was going through.
Okay. Well, also, when I was going through my
loss, my grief, I was in a very, very dark place.
And I mentioned it in my book, I never came out
and said I wanted to kill myself. But if something
happened, and obviously I'm in law enforcement
now, if something happened that would be okay,
you know? And I did a lot of stuff that I shouldn't
have done. I could have got someone really, really
hurt or myself hurt. But when I was in that dark
place, I'm trying to deal with my grief. But
then all those little black, dark demons that
I had didn't like the person I was. I shouldn't
have acted like that. I should be a better person
at this. I should be more, you know, wanting
to do more in my life. And all, I was fighting
all that darkness too at the same time, you know.
And you would think that it's just your grief
you're dealing with, but you're dealing with
all the, all the stuff in your past that you're
not proud of. And not that I was like a horrible
person or anything, but like I still, I did a
lot of stuff that I didn't. I didn't want to
be that person anymore. So I can remember years
down in my life, I was sitting on the couch with
that same dachshund again. And I was like, I
don't want to live like this anymore, you know?
And when I lost Caleb, I was 31 years old. And
I'm like, I don't want to live 30, 40, 50, 60
more years feeling like this. And I had to make
that decision. And once I made that decision,
I decided that I'm not going back. I'm not doing
this. And it was just baby steps. At first, I
started I started a master's degree program.
I did all the crazy, stupid stuff you're not
supposed to do when you're grieving, but I started
a master's degree program that was forensic psychology.
And I started learning about the criminal mind,
but... the mind just started interesting me.
And that's where I got to the therapy stuff.
That's where I was like, oh, wait a minute, I
can trick my mind. You know, and I started that
way trying to think positively when I was in
such a negative dark place. And then after I
started being able to handle that, then I started
to handle, I don't like this about me. I'm going
to change it. I'm going to like, I don't like
this about me. I don't, you know, I'm going to
change it. You know, I still feel this way, but
that's the way I viewed back when I was in high
school before kids. What do I? really feel now
because I think that a lot of women going through
child loss, marriage, divorce, all of it, we
lose ourselves in that. We kind of like stop.
We kind of like stop growing, I guess you could
say. Oh, yeah. Off on the back burner. Yes. And
we've instead of when we become that mom, it
becomes about that child and we don't think about
us and what we who are we going to be as a mom?
Who are we going to be as a mom that has an angel?
Who are we going to be as a wife or a divorcee?
And I think I think that's a big thing for us
is we just put everything on the back burner.
Yeah. I kind of answer. It does because society
in general expects mothers to always just bounce
back. And I say mothers implicitly because unfortunately
fathers don't get the same scrutiny as mothers
get, right? What do you think more people need
to understand about the emotional and spiritual
labor involved in surviving child loss because
bouncing back like it's nothing is not a reality?
Yeah, I think they need to know. Well, for me,
the spiritual part of it. There was things that
happened that I talked about in the book that
happened to me when I was when I was going through
my loss and obviously I was mad. I was mad mad
mad at God for taking him away from me. Um, absolutely
totally flustered with him and um, I thought
we survived his birth together. So I was absolutely
hor - just whatever. I was really bad. And so
like for the spiritual part of it, I had things
happen to me while I was going through all of
this mess that I believe that there is obviously
a higher spirit, whatever spirit that is. For
me, I say God, but I believe in a higher power
than - than here on earth. And I believe part
of my healing journey was to know that one day
I will see him again and I'll see with him again
and that always helps me believe with the healing
process. No, I don't sit here and think about
it every single day, but I know eventually one
day I'll see him again. I'll be with him again
and that helped in my healing process and in
the emotional process for me. I had to realize
that I am going to be okay one day and something's
going to what I call triggers. Something's going
to trigger me and I am going to be emotional.
That's a hot mess as I mentioned in my book.
You did. Go back to that place. But I had to
realize I need to be okay with it. And I think
that's the biggest thing when you're going through
it is realizing that you're not gonna stop crying
one day and you know it might be six months down
the road or ten years down the road you know
i was actually i was watching something one of
those darn reels and on facebook or instagram
or one and between the music and just it was
a mom talking about her loss and it's nothing
that I had never seen before but it just brought
me back to Caleb and I got teary -eyed and I
started crying that moment it just it needed
to hit you the way it hits you yeah and it was
not something that was out of the ordinary I
didn't cry for long but it just hit me you know
and I and I'm like okay with it now but before
it was like oh no I gotta you know I gotta act
bad you know I gotta act stoic and you know but
now I'm just like if I cry I cry it's gonna happen
at the this time and being okay with that. You
touched on something that I read and when I read
it in the book and I kind of loved it because
I lived it and you just mentioned it now about
being angry at God. There have been, again for
me especially when I read that I was like okay
you know I felt a little almost a little comfort
with that in a way because we always sometimes
feel guilty when we feel angry at God. Yeah.
And I know for me, there were moments I sat and
I screamed and I cried to God, why? Like, what
is the point of this? What is the reason for
this? I don't want to have to, why, just why?
And screaming and crying and you know, that's
a relationship, right? So it's like he can, he
or she or spirit or source, whatever, it can
handle it. That's the point, right? To get you
back to your grounding that you need, you know?
And there were moments for me. that when I was
at probably my lowest that I was the same way
that I was like you know what I don't even care
what happens you know I was just like whatever
happens happens there were moments I was on the
floor like a puddle hysterical crying and I actually
would hear in my ear get up a voice Teresa get
up and it wasn't my voice yeah you know and it
was so shocking that it stopped me instantly
and it was like and it was kind of like you have
other things you have to do so get to it, right?
Those kind of things. So we all have those moments,
I think, where, you know, we think we're doing
great, we have to re -evaluate our relationships
with ourselves, with source, whatever, God, whatever
we feel, and bring ourselves back to that grounding,
whatever that is for you, to help push you along.
Now, the reason I also mention this is because
I know you mentioned it as well, you've studied
multiple forms of therapy. and mental health
practices so how did that learning influence
and you touched a bit about it but in this particular
case how did that learning influence your writing
so when i started doing doing the therapies and
stuff like that. I'm an extremist. If I'm going
to do something, I'm going to do it to the extreme.
And all of them I did to the extreme. And just
side note, NLP was my favorite. That's Neurolinguistic
Therapy. But basically, my biggest thing was
is between the therapies and learning the therapies
and they tell you, you know, you have to accept,
you have to be truthful, you know, whatever that
thing is that you felt, you have to be truthful
about it. You know, you have to accept however
you felt like for me. I hated, you know, I hated
God. I'm not, you know, I did, you know. I felt
like a crappy mom because I didn't get upset
and cry when, you know, my child died. I had
to accept that. So if I have to accept that and
acknowledge it, I need to write my book exactly
how I feel. And if I do that, then other moms
will accept. how they felt and I think that's
how the biggest part of it from everything that
I've I've done and all those therapies and stuff
the extreme stuff that I've done is you have
to know your truth and I think that's the big
thing with my writing it was like I'm gonna write
I'm gonna write this up and I talk about one
time in the book where right before we get to
the hospital and I and I'm thinking to myself
at least he's not suffering anymore. Caleb went
through a lot and he had a seizure disorder and
he went through a lot and I it's hard for a mom
to even feel right about saying that but I was
like maybe there's a mom out there. that felt
like that or thought that and thinks that they're
the whole most horrible person in the world.
And all those therapies taught me is like you
have to accept it and let it go. And I guess
that's kind of what it did. It made me write
my book more raw about exactly what I was going
through. It really is. It's it's like I said,
it's touching. I was there were moments that
I was just reading and I was in my car reading
and I was I was at my son's baseball practice
and I'm in the car and I'm facing the field and
I'm reading this and I'll be looking up back
and forth to make sure he's all teeny tiny and
I'm looking up and I'm reading it and I'm in
my car. I had to put my sunglasses on because
I felt it in my stomach, in my gut. hold all
that emotion and it just it was beautifully raw
it really was and lighthearted in a sense as
well right like to help kind of that balance
is definitely there you you talk about having
forgiveness even for yourself right which is
really hard to do and we touched on it a little
bit earlier but not you have to forget it's not
just for others but for yourself so if so what
well what role Do you think that plays in the
healing journey? They always say you have to
forgive yourself. I mean, that's like the big
thing. Oh, you got to forgive, you got to forgive.
But I think you and everybody that could possibly
be listening to that knows that that's like one
of the hardest things that you have to do. How
do I forgive myself if I, you know, and the way
that I did it and it might help other people
is I'm a clean slate. Yeah, I did some things
that I probably am not proud of. And there's
some things that I think I should have done better
as a mom and, you know, wife or what, you know,
whatever, but okay, I can't go back and change
those. I forgive myself for being that way, but
I'm never going to be that again. And I think
that was a part of my, my journey too is like,
Oh my gosh, I can't believe I did that at that
time frame, whether, you know, whatever it was
I was going through at the time, the dark demons
as I call them. And I had to say, you know...
I can't change it. There's absolutely nothing
I can do to change it. I'm just going to move
forward and I'll tell you, I can guarantee myself
I will never do that again. And as long as I
don't do it again, then I can forgive myself.
That's really interesting because I think that
we do try. Most people, if you're really trying
to be on a healing journey of any kind and a
healing and your way of saying a dealing journey
is knowing that you're actually learning something
from it, hopefully. Hopefully, you know, a lot
of people don't, unfortunately, and even if,
and even if you think that you're 100%, there's
no such thing. So it's always about saying, okay,
you can always remind yourself, oh, wait, let
me let me go back to that. And now I learned
from it. So how am I going to switch gears and
remember what I've learned from it? And so I
can deal with it differently. I think that that's,
that's really important. in any journey. You
were able to create a community for grieving
mothers online. So how has now that you're a
little more open obviously about it in the past
amount of time that you have been, how is sharing
space with other women who originally group wasn't
what you needed, right? Change the way you see
grief and purpose and the long path of healing
and dealing, really. Yeah, that's the weirdest
part about it is like I'm still an introvert
today. To today, I will, you know, I love my
space and I love my quiet time, but that group
I guess like for me when I was going through
and I was like well I'm gonna put this group
together and I'm gonna help other women and it's
you know it's not gonna be my thing but I'm gonna
help other women and just putting it together
I learned that and there's different things and
it goes over in the book but there's a different
healing if you talk about your child it's a different
healing about learning reading about your child
it's a different healing about hearing another
mom's story sharing pictures you know learning
something together. I believe you have to have
all of that and group in the group setting it
does help. But like one of the things in my group
is for we're not going to play the victim to
live with the loss if we have a bad day we're
going to talk about it and you know. I hope by
another mom posting in that group and going through
something, another mom that's going, you know,
on the other side of the world, you know, goes,
you know what, I didn't think about it like that.
Maybe I need to try that to try to heal or, you
know, hey, I feel this way. And I felt really
bad about it. But that mom right there feels
the same way, you know, and it's just like that
community where it's like, hey, we're okay. You
know, yeah, we were kind of in a group that we
never wanted to be in. Of course. we're okay,
we're going to be okay and we're going to heal.
And I think that healing is different for everybody
because I believe, you know, we talked about
earlier the personality, but I think that community
helps, even if you're going down a different
path of healing, helps you realize that, you
know, yeah, we're different in our loss and our
children usually die a different way, but we're
all kind of going through the same thing. Deep
down, we're all going through kind of the same
thing and feeling the same way. No, no, of course,
because I don't think it matters. If you could
be, it's not the natural progression of life
for a child to go before the parent. So it doesn't
matter if the parent is 112 and the kid is 96.
You know what I'm saying? Although that'd be
a very young mom, but whatever, but either way,
it doesn't matter. It's just in life. It's not
the natural progression of things. That's still
your baby. You know what I'm saying? It just,
um, regardless of what your relationship was,
regardless of whatever the case may be, there's
going to be at some point where you have to.
And I, again, I'm speaking from. different point
of view, but I'm just saying in general, whatever
the case may be, there's always where you have
to get to that place of acceptance. And I know
what happened to them. I know what happened to
me. And how do I, how do I use this to, to be
a catalyst for the rest of my life, you know,
without, without, you know, and I always think
to myself, and I always say to myself, would
they Want me to suffer, you know or two or they
just don't want me to say I'm with you and you
feel like you know I'm sure you feel like your
son is with you all the time and That that is
as hard as that isn't him not physically with
you. Sometimes I'm sure that's a bit of comfort
as well Yeah, yeah, and you know, I will I believe
in like signs and stuff. Oh me too I'm a firm
believer in signs and, you know, I was actually,
it was this weekend, it was either Saturday or
Sunday, I was washing dishes and looked out my
window and there was a red cardinal right there
in the bush, you know. Dragonflies right now
are all over the place, you know, I think those
are signs. They're out there, I think he's with
me all the time, but, you know, it's not something
that I think about all the time, but when I see
something like that, I'm like, When he wants
you to know, that's when he lets you see that.
I want to read a passage from page 22, find it
here. Like I said, I really could have sat here
the whole time and just read the whole book out
loud, to be honest with you. Okay, it says, obviously
my child died when he was two years old. And
for some of you, your child lived to be an adult
and had babies of their own. It's not about what
stage our children were at in life or how they
passed. We are all one. We might not understand
each other's story, but we do understand the
pain. With each of us who go through the loss
of a child, we understand what worked for us
may work for others and others who are dealing
with loss. What do you hope? a mother who is
in the early raw stages of loss feels when she
reads your book? The first and the biggest thing
is like I hope they don't feel they feel that
they're not alone. I mean I knew people that
had lost children but I didn't like get it and
then when I lost Caleb I thought I was the only
person that's ever lost a child. Of course. And
then nobody could understand what I was going
through. And I don't think it's the fact that
someone, another mother that has lost a child
is going to understand exactly what I'm going
through, but they understand, they truly understand
enough to just sit there with you and be like,
hey, we don't have to talk if you don't want
to, but you know. I'm here if you need me. You
know, um, I think that's the biggest thing I
would, I would definitely want them to know is
that they're not, they're not alone. You know,
obviously I'm weary of a lot of the groups that
are out there for child loss, which is really
weird because I own a group. I have a group,
but I'm really weary of it because a lot of those
groups, they, this might get some people, this
might trigger some people, but I feel like sometimes
as a mom that's lost children, we play like the
victim role and we play the victim of our circumstances
instead of figuring out which way we need to
go. And I'm real brave saying that right now,
but I was the victim when I first started, you
know, so I've been there, but you know, we play
the victim of our circumstances and it's hard
to get out of that space. If you don't get out
of that space, you're going to be in that dark
spot. And I hope that they understand that, hey,
there are people out there that can help me.
Maybe I just need to find the right group, the
right people. You would be surprised how someone
that has never gone through child loss before
can be there for you just as much as someone
that's not been through child loss. Right, right.
And that's another, like the book, when I wrote
the book about... It was written for moms, obviously,
definitely for moms. But if someone else picked
up that book, it would kind of give you a sense
of what the mom might be going through. Yes.
Different, different kind of loss, but maybe
what she's feeling and maybe you could help them.
But yeah, I guess that's the biggest thing is,
is I wanted them to know that they're not alone
and that there's millions of us out here, millions
of us out here. It's so unfortunate. But I do
like how you said, Like, I know you're right,
I made sure there's some people, but not to play
the victim. I say long game, right? Everybody,
all of us, no matter what the loss is, all human
nature will play the victim, right? Like, it
doesn't matter what it is, sickness, death, also.
a marriage, divorce, I mean, loss of a job, whatever
it is, right? Like whatever it is, we play that
victim game. Again, I think that's just human
nature to do that. But you're right. I think
after a certain amount of time sitting in that,
you're not going to grow, right? You're just
not going to grow. Now, June, I want to switch
gears a little bit because what's powerful about
your story is how you hold space for truth and
imagination, grief and love, pain and possibility.
So after sharing so openly and vulnerably and
mama, you don't heal you then turn to fiction
with whispered promises and this is a story that
carries its own emotional weight but in a completely
different way so if you don't mind let's talk
about that journey a little bit what it meant
for you to shift from memoir to fiction and what
whisper promises lie to explore i know you had
some other life altering events after as well
that helped be a catalyst for this as well. So
with the second book Whisper Promises, again,
being a very different story, it's a love story
that's a love story that spans decades and life's
many different turns. So what inspired this story
and how did it come to life after everything
you've been through? So I obviously wrote my
book, Mama You Don't Heal, and it was out for
five months. And I mean, it was it was doing
good. I was doing all kinds of podcasts and everything
is great. My husband at the time asked for a
divorce after 10 years. And so, you know, it
comes to a point where and I can't say that our
marriage is perfect at all, you know, but nobody
said I still was kind of blindsiding. obviously
and um i guess you know when i was at that point
i was like i go back to and this probably sounds
snooty but i go back to my affirmation i had
with caleb i've already lived my worst day every
day after that is gonna be better than this day
was like you know what i just got to pivot this
isn't the way i'm going i have a daughter now
and i want to go in a different direction and
i guess i you know that's that's kind of what
I wanted when I was dealing with the story I
was like you know I want something that that
feels real that has kind of emotion in it and
that people that they can they can the audience
can relate to I think that's the that's the biggest
thing I wanted to I wanted a fiction story where
something was real something was real and something
lasted and um that's that's kind of where I was
going with it and that's where I went with it.
So in some ways Whisper of Promises is about
second chances right and the power connection
so was writing this fiction was it a form of
escape about healing something or something else
entirely for you? I think it was just, I guess
maybe it's an escape. An escape from like society
now and the situationships and the, you know,
hookups. Yeah, the single culture is ugly. It's
ugly right now. It's ugly right now. I fear for
my daughter, I'm sure you feel for yours, because
she's of age, mine I have a fear for you. But
you know, it was, I just wanted to do something
different. So it was like an escape because,
you know, I believe in love. Um, so, you know,
um, I just wanted that escape. I wanted that
escape away from what society has going on right
now, I guess. And even in divorces too, because
divorces, I mean, you know, people joke around,
obviously I'm in law enforcement, people joke
around like, oh, it's only your first divorce.
You know what I mean? I'm unfortunately on the
way to two and I'm only my early forties and,
and, and it wasn't in any. It wasn't in any trajectory
of mind. You just can't control other people
and you can't control their actions. In this
book, the characters maintain a relationship
through emails, letters and small reunions over
the years. So do you believe that love can survive
across time and space? I absolutely believe that.
And I believe that there's a person for everybody.
The male in the book is in the military. I come
from a military town. And then the woman in the
book is in law enforcement. And so I wanted to
do kind of the distance. And, you know, back
in the in the 90s, it was you're writing letters,
you're not getting on the cell phone and saying,
hey, what's up, you know, you're not Skyping,
you're not doing like all this. Yeah, you weren't
doing that back then. And no instant gratification
because that we've really gotten used to. Yeah,
we've gotten used to it. So I wanted something
set kind of back at that time. But yeah, and
I wanted something to feel real because I believe
that if love was meant to be, they'll always
come back to you. They'll always find you. You
know, I don't know if there's one special person
for everybody, but I believe that you're going
to know when that person comes. Did writing whispered
promises help you explore the concept of love
from a new lens, especially after loss and heartbreak
and any other major life changes? Oh, yeah. Yeah,
I mean, it made me it made me go back to realizing
what what love should be. and what it shouldn't
be. And I think for me moving forward, it also
made me do, you know, I told you earlier, analyze
everything. You know, it made me analyze myself
and what I really wanted and what I should, I
don't know how to explain it, but maybe should
have done earlier. What I should have paid attention
to more, I guess you could say. And what I'm
going to and not going to deal with in love anymore.
Amen. That's where you learn, right? That's exactly
how you learn. You keep learning from your past.
It's just you hope that you don't make those
same mistakes where you see it before those same
mistakes were made. Yes. So June, we're basically
at the end of our interview, but I have some
more questions for you. If you could sit with
yourself from the day after your loss, what would
you say to her now having come this far? You're
not alone. I mean, that's that's still my biggest
thing is is you're not alone and do it the way
you want to do it. Grieve the way you want to
do it. You don't have to be stoic. You don't
have to hide your emotions. Just let it flow,
because that's one of the biggest things that
if I would have started from the start and showing
my emotions, well, maybe not even show letting
my emotions come. Instead of just packing them
away that would have helped me out so much more
and then just to tell myself you're gonna make
it It's a long road, but you're gonna make it
no expectations. Yeah. Yeah It's just one day
at a time. Yeah, just do I mean if you know I
mean if you do something that's crazy do something
that's crazy if you're gonna cry or if you're
standing in line and start crying Hey, it is
what it is. Right exactly people that don't even
know you think you're crazy. I mean, right What's
it matter? You know and just don't care don't
care like that for women listening today who
are struggling with any kind of loss or a disconnection
from their purpose what's one gentle first step
you'd encourage them to take yeah so basically
i would tell them is to to sit in their space
in their silence and i would definitely tell
them to decide that day whatever day that is
once you start thinking about it decide that
day that you don't want to be in the place that
you're in and once you say decide that don't
ever turn back. Don't ever, don't ever go back
to the way you feel that day. You know, you might
not have like the best plan of action. You might
not know where you want to go. You don't know.
You might not know what your goal is, but each
day sit with it and just take one step forward.
Or I say baby steps a lot, take that one baby
step forward and just never go back to the day
before. And you actually mentioned journaling
earlier and I tell people to do it all the time
is the days that you think you're going backwards,
go back and read that journal. two months ago
and see where you're at and then you'll realize
that you're way ahead. That's a wonderful tool.
I love that. That's completely true when you
see that progression. You go, wow, who was that
person? Yeah, I can't believe that I've come
this far. Yes, exactly. And I lied. I said I
had two more questions. Actually, I have one
more. Please tell our audience where they can
find you, where they can buy your book. I'm going
to put it all in the show notes, of course, all
the books as well. And I will be buying with
the promises because I want to read that one
too fully. Right. I really do. I'm like so intrigued.
But please tell our audience where they can contact
you if they would like to buy your book, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera. So the easiest place to
look for my book is obviously on the Amazon.
But if you type in either of the titles, you
can find my book. It's at several different spots.
Mama, you don't heal. You got Amazon, Walmart,
Target, Barnes and Noble, whole bunch of them.
Whisper Promises is on Amazon and I saw it on
Barnes and Noble the other day. So like it's
starting to pick up more the longer it is, but
Amazon's obviously the easiest. If you want to
find my group for child loss, it's a private
group. It's only for women who have lost children.
There's about 1700 people in there right now,
all women. And it's at, it's on Facebook and
it's women surviving child loss and it's a private
group you have to answer some questions I just
want to make sure that you've actually lost a
child a group and that you're female and then
that's my private group and then everyone I have
to talk tick -tock Instagram Facebook if you
search my name or the Serenity Dreamer that's
my business page on Facebook and then Author
June Karolik, you can find me, but sometimes
it's easier by, you know, searching the Serenity
Dreamer. But yeah, and if you want to message
me, obviously my email is hello at authorjunekarolik
.com, but my last name is kind of weird. It's
kind of long and stuff. So if you message me
on TikTok, Instagram, or Facebook, I will message
you back on there too, because I do that too.
And that's... basically how you can get a hold
of me. No, that's awesome. And again, like I
said, I'm gonna put all that in the show notes,
everything, it'll be a listing in case for anybody
who would like to get more information or, or
reach out to you as well. June, thank you for
being here and sharing both your heart, your
words, your healing with us. What you've shown
us is that we don't have to have it all figured
out to begin again. That purpose can grow out
of pain, and that even after everything changes
we can still write new chapters, whether through
tears, love letters, or whisper promises of our
own. You include a Mona Lisa Diamond quote, positive
people are not positive because they've skated
through life, they're positive because they've
been through hell and decided they don't want
to live there anymore. So to anyone listening
who's navigating loss, identity, the feeling
of being unrecognizable to yourself, I hope you
walk away from this episode knowing that you're
not alone. Feeling might not be linear or neat
or complete, but it's possible and your story
still matters. You can connect with June online
and explore both of her books. Again, Mama You
Don't Heal and Mr. Promises, wherever you get
your books. And again, I'll say it, we'll link
everything in the show notes. Thank you for joining
me. You can reach me at Prosecco Queen's podcast
on all of social media. As well as ProseccoQueen'spodcast
.gmail .com. And please like, subscribe, review
podcasts on YouTube at Prosecco Queen's podcast.
I will be off for a couple of weeks. We will
make sure to keep everybody in the loop of when
our next episode is coming out. So until next
time, be gentle with yourself and remember you're
allowed to rebuild, to rest, and to rise. Thanks
for listening to Prosecco Queen's podcast. Cheers.
Peace out.