This episode contains references to drugs and alcohol, mental health, graphic content, and adult themes.
The information provided in this podcast is for general purposes and for awareness,
and should not be considered professional advice. The views in this episode are explicitly ours alone.
Furthermore, any references to any products, places, services, or organizations are not
through endorsement or recommendation unless explicitly stated. We strive to be inclusive and
candid. And now onto our season 2 premiere of Ride or Die from teens to prosecco queens.
Hello and happy 2024 to you all of my dear listeners. We are back for a new season and I
am really excited. In case you don't know who I am or are new to our show, I am your host Teresa,
the forever dreamer, and this is Ride or Die from teens to prosecco queens. Welcome to all.
Today's episode is really a cool one for me and a privilege at that because this queen is sitting
down to have a really interesting and probably surprising discussion with a wonderful friend
of mine. Someone I've had hours of conversations and laughs with over the past 20 years at least,
and the first king to grace his podcast with his presence. Please everyone welcome Jose to the show.
Jose has just recently come back into my life after quite some time and has been a true breath
of fresh air for me. It's amazing how you can just click with someone and that just remains over time.
Being in his presence again was like I was chatting him up just yesterday while he fixed my computer.
Jose is a Gen Xer, a father, a son, a friend, and a brother, and probably the biggest systems
admin on at least the East Coast. He's a smart ass with a heart of gold and dynamic as hell.
He's a 10 among men for sure. This conversation is sure to make us laugh, but with his intelligent
wit will definitely teach you something as well. And we may go off the hinges here and there.
It is my honor to say what's up to Jose. Please introduce yourself to our listeners,
even though I talked up the shit about you just now.
Ah, I don't know if I could trump that introduction. That is glorious. I feel like I'm on the pressure now.
I certainly don't want to let you down, but as far as the biggest East Coast tech,
that's probably about right. Six, five, three hundred or something pounds. I think I'm three
ten now. So, you know, I'm losing weight. Working your way back. I said I'm working my way down.
I gotta get under 300, but we're working out there. I'm good. Good. I'm shopping at regular people
clothes now. That's cool stuff. That might make two of us live one day. I just got a sweater at
Coles not too long ago. That was probably like, whoa, Coles, they got my stuff. It's like, you
know, that felt like a win. But you know, so here I am. But thank you for the wonderful introduction.
That was fantastic. Of course. Of course. So originally, back in the summer when Jose and I
hooked up again, it was because his sister-in-law, one of my best friends and also one of my earlier
guests on the show, Raquel, had mentioned to me how much internal work he had done on himself
and how much he had changed mentally, emotionally and spiritually, and that he would be amazing
to have on the show to discuss mental health in the male community and most importantly in the
male colored community. And naturally, I was wholly excited and seriously intrigued. I of course was
not disappointed and my old friend was like version 3.0. We realized that not only do we have some good
and not so good in common, but there is so much more we can talk about and we are going to.
From mental health to dating in your 40s to divorces and kids and so much more. This may end
up a two-parter. Jose, I can't thank you enough for being here with me. It's like one of the many
convos we always have, except we have to edit way more because you know, we can get quite candid
and I think there is very little off limits. I want to jump right in if it's cool with you.
Absolutely. Go for it. All right. So there's a thought that men simply do not express their
emotions and if they do, they are usually holding back or holding it in or acting out angrily or
in an explicit way. And we know that there's a spectrum there. So I want to start off by understanding
from the male perspective how and why there is not only a stigma around mental health
and men of color. Now, of course, we know that it's not only men of color, but men in general,
however, for argument's sake, we know it's more under acknowledged and under treated in men of
color. And of course, as a brown woman, I have my own theories based not just on my experience
personally, but seeing the trials and tribulations of the men in my family, men I've been married to,
and relationships in general. So tell me, thinking back to when you were younger, was there an open
forum to express your feelings in a healthy manner without fear of judgment, ridicule, or dismissal?
Because most of us were subject to at least two out of three in our childhoods causing us to bottle
it up and express it in ways that I can say was not very, that I was not very proud of personally.
So I can say that I often saw that there was never an outlet for men, or especially like young men,
to really like express their feelings. Your options was if you were lucky, you had a mom that was
with an old listener you, and I was one of those lucky ones. And even with that, there was some
limitations because there were certain things that either I didn't want to talk to my mom about,
of course, right? And other things was that maybe she didn't feel comfortable talking to me about.
Makes sense. But from an emotional standpoint, my mom was always very supportive of the things
that I was comfortable speaking of. I happened to be born and raised in the Bronx, and a lot of
the kids that I saw grew up in single parent homes. And they didn't have the good fortune I had to
have a mother who was a little bit more empathetic to feelings like that. A lot of, especially around
my time, a lot of the guys grew up trying to be a little stoic. Yeah, exactly. Right? It was like,
Oh, shut up, you know, don't cry this and that. Crying was just looked at like, you know, it was
just not, you know, not good. You don't want to cry. You don't want to show your emotion. You don't
want to show your weakness. Right. Because it was equated to weakness. Yeah. Exactly. And as a kid,
that's very easy to, you know, that's very easy to comprehend, right? Like you're crying. Oh,
you're weak because every guy that you see that's tough doesn't cry. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Like I remember growing up, growing up and watching men in funerals, not crying. Agreed. You're right.
Yeah. It's very rare. They weren't crying. Like your father died. Yeah. And you're not crying.
And I was like, Oh, I'm crying. Am I supposed to cry? Am I not? I've always battled with those,
with those feelings, right? And so here's what happens. You grow up and you carry this lesson
throughout your whole life, right? Right. Then you carry that entire lesson in your whole life.
And you never, as, as you get to adulthood, you never reevaluate that. You never revisit this,
like thought process, right? And, and, and see if it's working out for you. This is something that
in general we don't do. That's where you see so much arrested development. You know, a lot of us
become adults chronologically, but not emotionally. And it's seems like that's almost getting worse.
Yeah. And a lot of that has to do with, you know, I, you know, everything could be speculative,
really. Like if I talk to you about certain things, I could say, Oh yeah, social media lends
it hand in that because social media, you know, social media paints this picture of the highlights
of your life, right? And everybody's trying to keep up with the highlights of your life. Yes.
But the day to day is like, it's different for everybody. You know what I'm saying? It's like,
everybody's going through hard times. Everybody's going, nah, maybe not everybody, but the majority
of us are going through hard times just like everybody else, right? You know, emotional struggles,
financial struggles, etc. You know, parenting struggles and things like that. So, you know,
I think that if you get to a point where you're a little older in your 20s and your 30s, and you
start reevaluating, like, why do you think about that? You know what I'm saying? Like, why, why do
you think that crying or just being like emotional is weak? Where did you get this concept from?
And if you really think about it, like, you're gonna, you're gonna draw an answer and that answer
is going to be something akin to what when I was seven, that's right. This is what happened. And it's
like, yeah, does that, does that still work for you? Yeah, because I'm sure it doesn't. Exactly.
We were and you know, a lot of times we say that's such a male thing, but it was us as females as
well. We've talked about it on the show before that happens. And I don't know, again, I think
my kids generation, I think your daughter's generation, you know, they're, what are they,
gen, what are they? Good. So it would be gen X and then the next one is millennials. Right.
The gen Z's would be after that. So our kids are Gen Z. And it's really interesting because they're
now able to be more open, right? They're able to. And I think a lot of that too is because we,
as an hour generation millennials and Gen Xers, I think that we're a little more cognizant now
of how we were raised and that it wasn't correct, right? That it's like, they should be able to
come to us as humans, right? Cause a lot of times as kids, we weren't seen as humans. Yeah, yeah.
We were just seen as a staple. You're here, we're feeding you, you go into school, you got clothes
in a home. That's it. Yeah. Right. That's it. And then you grow up believing that until like you said,
reevaluate. And most of us don't even know to reevaluate because we don't have the tools or the
mentality to do it. Nobody tells you to do that, right? Exactly. And so that's part of the problem
is that, you know, it's like, you know, you don't, when you were a kid, your parents were infallible.
Yeah. Like whatever they were doing, you felt like, oh, this is your parents and your parents know
everything. And this is who you listen to. And you are, you are given the tools to live and be,
and be productive by loving parents, at least, you know, if you're lucky, right? Like you got
some loving parents that are trying to do the best they can. And then you grow up and then you
realize, oh, my parents didn't have all the answers. Or maybe you don't realize that. Maybe you still
think that they have all the answers. I know about everything. Right. Of adults who still
believe that about their parents. Yeah. And so, and so if you grew up in that mindset, then, you know,
it's, it's hard to challenge that because it's, it goes against all your whole belief system, right?
Like it's really hard to grow up and have a core belief system and, and, and break that up, break
that down and realize that, oh, it's been wrong the whole time because it really disrupts your,
your peace for a bit. Exactly. You know, but you have to be comfortable with that. I saw it's,
along these lines, it's going to be, it's very, it's actually really funny because it's kind of a
meme that I read almost. And what I found funny about it was along those lines, but it was, but
it was funnier. It says something like, back in our day, in the 90s, even the 90s, the 80s,
if your aunt told you something, for example, like, you know, don't, what do we always say? Oh,
don't swim, don't swim right after you eat. Whatever it is, whatever the belief is, right,
that passed down from generations with no basis at all. Whatever it is, if your aunt told you not
to do that, now there was no Google, there was none of that stuff that you could say, well,
let me check this. Nobody knew that. You want your entire life believing this, this is ingrained in
you now. Like, why would you, like, we're like, but in our head, we're thinking, this is an adult,
she knows what the hell she's talking about. Don't shower when a single, there's this storm,
my mother told me that my whole life. To this day, I still want this, I'm still scared to shower
of this lightning. Don't wet your hair before you go to bed. Yes. And so, and then that's on a
different, that's on a different level, but it's still along the lines of those beliefs that we get
when we're younger from the older generations that we feel like they got to know what the hell
they're talking about because the older I look now and I'm at my age and I'm like, damn, so my
mother at 40, 41, my dad really did know much more than I did. You know what I mean? And maybe,
and maybe I know a little more because I'm a little more progressive. Yeah. Yeah. In my own
beliefs and in the work I've done. But when it comes to other, you know, other stuff too, whether
it be relationships or financial, you know, when you're looking at your parents as a kid, you're
like, man, what you see is what you think is. Yeah. Yeah. Well, perception is reality. Yeah.
What you're living, that's your life, right? It doesn't matter about anything else. So,
for you, it's like this, what's going on in my house is what life is. And there's no, there's
just, and for me, it was like, oh, I guess this is normal. Whatever's going on is normal. Absolutely.
You know, so I think now I'm looking at back at this age, I'm like, shit, that was a normal.
Yeah. And it wasn't happy. But normal. Yeah. And normal can be good or bad. Healthy. Healthy is
what you're right. Healthy. Yeah. Yeah. Is, is to me, healthy is what I consider normal. Exactly.
And so that's what should be normal. But sometimes the normalcy is, you know, it could be anything.
It could be, you know, getting beat every day. Yeah. Right. And it's all about what you normally see.
Right. Right. It's like some people like, for instance, I like that normalcy is what you normally
see. Yeah. What you, what you often see, I should say, I don't want to define the word with the,
with the same word, but you, you know, you get the point. And, and, and that's what it is. Whatever
you used to becomes normal. Like some people fight the, you know, the, oh, being gay isn't normal.
But what's not normal, or it's not natural or something to that degree. Right. Well, of course,
if you don't experience it every day, that's not normal to you. Exactly. But the truth of the
matter is that as far as being natural, it's absolutely natural. Exactly. We have the animal
population is about 10% gay. Just like the human population. Just like the human population, right?
So, you know, like, yeah, it's absolutely natural. Now, if you want to make that argument,
that it's not natural, it's like, well, now you have nothing to stand on because that's the
argument, right? Right. But here's the issue that, that you brought up before. It's like,
oh, we didn't have Google and we didn't have this. Well, we have it now. People still have it.
People still have these problems. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? It's like, you know, like,
somebody would say something like, oh, you know, oh, this, this is this way because x, y, z. And
you could just look it up and find out, no, that's not, that's not correct. And people would buy that.
People would buy that at face value. Exactly. You know, if I tell you right now, if I tell a story
about a good story about how George Washington's teeth, George Washington's teeth were made out
of wood, you would buy a hook line and sinker if I told you that story with enough. Well,
they told us that exact thing when we were kids. Whatever it is, right? So like, here's a story
about Christopher Columbus, right? The story about Christopher Columbus that we are taught in school
is fiction. Yes, it is. It's complete fiction. It's not fiction. Everything about, oh, in 1492,
Columbus sailed the ocean blue. This is a story from Washington Irving, I believe. And it was like,
you know, it was, it was all made up. Yep. Right. It was based out of a novel. Yeah. First of all,
the theory that he was sailing and did and wanted to prove that the world was round
was completely inaccurate. Yeah. We were hundreds of years already into. Yeah, we already, we already
figured out that the world was round, you know what I'm saying? And to this day, right, to modern day
2024, there are droves of people who still believe that the earth is flat. Yes, there are. Yeah.
Right. And so unbelievable. Right. And no matter what, no matter what you tell them, no matter what,
you know, what proof you present, anything like that, it's like, no, this is, this is bullshit.
Your, your conspiracy theory is based on something that where, oh yeah. So NASA is hiding this from
me. The whole world and NASA is conspiring to hide that to what gain? Thank you. I say that all the
time. What would be, what would be the reason? The game? Yep. Because if somebody is perpetuating
this, this, this lie, then there has to be something to be gained. Right. So what is the gain here?
There is none. There is one. Right. It's just, I don't know. This we build all this technology
based on all of this physics that we understand. Right. Right. And we can see that every planet
is round. And we, right. And we understand that it's wrong because it has to be because of
graph, like a whole, a whole slew of reasons. It has physics, right? Yes. And it's just like,
okay, cool. So why is ours flat? Like, I don't, like it's a flying saucer. It's a flying saucer.
I would just like, just a flat, like a pancake. Like, why would it be? Why would it be? And there's
so many ways to just prove that in a very easy way. And it's like, but, but you don't want to,
because here's the problem. The problem is people either, either you're grifters and you're trying
to lie to people, but, but not everybody is that, not everybody is that some people just want to
believe they want to believe the, the, the opposers. They want to, they want to be the underdogs that
are right. You know what I'm saying? And I think that that's what it is. And I think the biggest
problem of all this is that you have to be okay with, you have to be okay. You have to be willing
to be wrong and okay with it. Yeah. You know, like, I'm not married to my thoughts. I'm not married
to my ideas. Like if somebody gives me information, that's new information that would disprove or
otherwise change my belief on something, I'll be glad to take it in and change my mind about it.
And that's how you should operate. I say that having that open mind is what helps us evolve.
Right. And that's part of the problem. And I think that's a big part of the issue. So many people
are unwilling to not just have an open mind, but to evolve, right? Evolve mentally, spiritually,
emotionally. I mean, it goes on physically, shit, just physically alone, you know, people are so
against evolving and trying to do better. So they, I think they try to disprove stuff just
so they don't, they don't have to evolve because comfort is easier. Yeah. Right. Your comfort zone
is easier. Anything that challenges your comfort zone, there is a huge population of people,
probably most people, including us at times, obviously, that it, we just are not able to do
that. I challenge my parents all the time. Yeah. It drives, I know it drives my mom crazy. I just
had my dad on the floor that I was challenging something. I was like, Oh my God, aren't you
tired of thinking so like closed minded? Yeah. And he like, threw a fit, which was hysterical,
but it was not in a bad way. But just in the sense like, he's like, what do you mean? What do you mean?
And I'm like, dad, you're not listening because that's an older generation. Right. It's the idea
that they're so ingrained. It's hard to open that door and see otherwise. And even sometimes when
you physically are proving it, there's still that, Oh, well, I don't know. You know, I don't know.
I don't know where'd you get that? You can't always trust that either. I'm like, it's fact.
Like, you know, you there's other ways you can verify things. Right. Yeah. So all of that starts
from when you're younger. And I think some people are also born and raised to be more inquisitive.
Well, and others we know or not. Well, that's what got me in trouble in Bible study. You know
what I'm saying? Like, oh, I could imagine. Oh my God. I was too inquisitive. You know what I'm
saying? Like when I was growing up and it was like, well, so, but, but because of that, because I
was inquisitive and because nobody was able to give me like a clear answer, it was always, you know,
it's like, oh, we don't question the Lord and stuff like that. It was something to that always.
It's like, that's sort of what threw me off of that path. Like said, eh, you know what, if my idea
was if your religion can't handle the, you know, the inquiry of a 10 year old, so you've got nothing
going on here. You know what I'm saying? Like that's what it is. If you can't stand up to the
scrutiny of a 10 year old, I was like, you got nothing here. And you know, that sounds like me,
when I was that age and I went to Catholic school, obviously, because you know, that's how
we ever tell each other. And I used to, you know, for a while it was just ingrained in me. It's just
what we were. We were indoctrinated. That's what we were. My mom was hardcore Catholic raised and
we weren't as hardcore Catholic. She was, she pulled away a little bit, but we still were.
And I used to, I started to say to myself as I got older, like, like I say now I'm more spiritual.
I'm way more spiritual than I'm religious, right? But I still have my beliefs. I still, you know,
I still believe in the Lord, the Jesus. I still pray, I have all those things. I still have my
conversations, right? But on different levels. As I got older, I used to say to myself, well,
where does science fit in then? And I used to get in trouble for asking those questions. I said,
like, wait a second though, if there was Adam and Eve, were they living with the dinosaurs?
Just simple shit like that, right? Like really just basic kid shit. Like you're telling me this
story, then what, where does this story fit in? Yeah. Right? And there were many times,
it like, oh, don't worry about it. God has always been God. Okay, that's great. I'm not,
I'm not even disputing that. Yeah. Explain to me how these can be mutually exclusive. Explain
that to me. That's all I want. You know what I mean? And so then you're told, like everything else,
don't ask the questions. Pretty much. Yeah, it's, it's just live with it.
Blind faith. Yes. This is what it is. And so just live with it. It's a hard pill to swallow,
but here's the thing, right? That's what religion teaches you. See, what happens is,
when you have a belief system, right, and it gets challenged, and I, and I start questioning your,
whatever it is, it doesn't even need to be religious. But if I, if you have a belief system
that you're sharing with me, then what happens is, and I break that and I give you information that
disputes that, and it's, it's, you can't dispute it now, because I gave you this information.
What you do now is you, you have two options. You can either accept that and reevaluate your
life or your belief system at the very least, right? Or you're going to develop, you're going to
create some conspiracy theory. Very true. Very true. Because now you have to figure out how to
dismiss this fact that you just got, right? And work it into your whole, you know, psyche,
and your whole, your whole belief system, right? And that's what happens with religion, right?
Like when, when you're, when your belief system is challenged, and it's going to get challenged
because there's a lot of different religions out there. Of course. You're going to meet people,
they're going to question you and things like that and whatever. And some people are not necessarily
mean about it or anything. But, you know, for instance, myself, I'm inquisitive, and I want
to learn, I want to understand how you think, whatever. So I may ask you questions about it,
if it's a religion that I'm not familiar with. So when I ask you questions and you don't know how
to answer it, you kind of stumble on things. And, and, and sometimes that makes you uncomfortable,
because it's like, how do I, it's my whole belief system. This is what I believe since I was a
little kid. Yeah. And to let go of that, just like suddenly like that, that's a, that's a,
that's disruptive. It is. So, so not everybody's going to be comfortable doing that. But I think
that if we get comfortable to challenge these ideas and become normal, right, that becomes normal.
And then, right. And then, and then we're, we're, we become in a place where we're a lot more
self aware. We, you know, listen, I, I understand the need for spirituality, right? This idea that
like, if I sell you that I'm atheist, right? Like, you know, then, then my belief system is there
is no belief system. It's we die, nothing happens, right? But that's a hard pill to solve for some
people. It kind of is for me. It is not right to me. It's like, well, my problems are over
everything that everything that I could consider a problem. My dad is the same way. Exactly. Yeah.
Like if I want, when I'm gone, I don't want to die. Right. But I know that nobody gets out of
here alive. That's right. Right. That's right. And it's going to happen at some point. So,
you know, I'm comfortable with that idea. And not everybody gets to that part. Yeah. Right.
Not everybody gets to the part where they're like comfortable with that idea that it's like,
Hey, I don't want to die a painful death or a slow agonizing, you know, anything like that.
But I'm okay with the death, right? And anything that happens afterwards is like,
I'll, you know, I'll deal with it. I'm saying like, it's like, it's not exactly. It's what it is.
Like whatever it is, it's like, that's for the next time. Like when I get there, I will deal with
that. And if I got out, whatever it is, if it involves booking a hotel or whatever it is,
I'm going to take care of it. It's like, I'll worry about it when I get to that side. Yeah. But
I'm not going to start here. I'm like, I don't feel like I'm going to be here with limited
information, trying to make plans about what's going to happen later. What if I get it wrong?
Listen, booking.com doesn't go that far. You don't say it, but it's like, but that's my whole thing.
It's like, how, you know, like you're going to sit here and talk about there's something like
5,000 religions across the world or something like that. Right? It's like, you know, you're gambling
on one here. You got a 5,001 chance like that you got it right. That is so because then that actually
ties into what we were even saying is to reevaluate. Yeah. Right. So to reevaluate belief systems that
we've had since we were younger, to reevaluate, reevaluate everything that we were taught and so
many people don't want, again, just don't even know to do that. I didn't even know to do that
necessarily. And so you had said it in those words and I was like, not that I didn't do it. I had
done it. I didn't realize that's what I was doing was reevaluating my thoughts, my beliefs, my,
and like I said, my internal audit that I had to do in order to feel that I can be a whole person
again after feeling so much of it was snatched away from me, you know, and and and that that that
audit I feel has an entire just just does something to your entire being. Yeah. You know, and there
are some people that are so and again, I'll say a lot of older generations that look at it be like,
oh, that's bullshit. That's bullshit. You are who you are or whatever. And you see a lot of
miserable ass people walking around. Yeah, like miserable ass people. Yeah, I got plenty of them
in my family, you know, like older generations is miserable and they're like, no bitch about it,
the complaint about it. Okay, well, you still don't have that do something about it. You know what I
mean? But when you're so ingrained and you're refused to be a little more open about it, and you
don't want to hear about it, you know, as I was like, so I'm trying to do better for myself. I know
you've been trying to do better for yourself and for our kids. That's exactly it. That's my motivation.
Yeah. You know what I mean? I'll ask you a question. I know that you're the hostess here.
Oh, please ask away. My boundaries. Ask away. I'm going to ask you a question. Yes. What is your
method of conflict resolution in a, in a relationship? In other words, how did you arrive to your,
to this concept that you currently employ for conflict resolution in your relationships?
Well, I realized the one thing lacking in all of my relationships, including the two major ones,
was effective communication. That was lacking. That was lacking. Yes. Okay. Right. Pure effective
communication. And when I say that, I mean, me talking to a blank slate constantly, me trying
to pull shit out of somebody who is, for lack of a better term, obviously mentally ill. And I'm,
I'm not talking about just one. I apparently, I'm an empath, apparently. And it's like,
the universe just sends them to me. And when I can't fix them, the universe gets rid of them.
As apparently I'm a beacon for it. I'm starting this. And that's helping me see a little clearer too.
Yeah. About, about the way I see the way I handle things, right? So for me, what I'm learning is
how to try to be more effective in my communication for conflict resolution.
So great point. But, but here's what I really want to know. Okay. Your original concept for
conflict resolution, how to have conflict resolution in a relationship. Oh, you made
from when I was younger. Right. Where did you learn that from? Oh, that's okay. How did you learn
conflict resolution? There was no conflict resolution. That's my point. The point is,
what you probably happened to you was you saw your parents fight. Not just them. And you were,
or whoever it is, you saw your parents fight and maybe a couple of other adult couples. Yes.
And you employed their tactics as yours. Yeah. And that's how we mostly learn things. No,
that's exactly in a very passive way. Yes. So what ends up happening is like, here's what happened
in my family. If you were, if you fought, you had a couple of words, yappy, yappy, yappy, yappy, yappy,
you go to your corners and somebody and everybody stops talking. That's it. Right. Yeah. Stop talking
a magnitude and depending on the severity of it, it could be a couple of hours to a few days. Yes.
Right. Of just tension and then at some point, tension and quiet. Yeah. And then at some point,
yes, everything gets resolved. Right. But it's a sweeping under the rug. It's a sweeping under the
rug. That's all that it is. And the way that you know that it's resolved is because suddenly
they're talking like nothing happened. Yep. Right. Exactly. If there was something that happened in
the background, we don't know about it. Not when you're a kid. Right. So from your
perspective, what you've realized is that, oh, you just pretend nothing happened and just start
talking. Exactly. So guess what happens? Exactly. Two marriages in and that's the tactic I was employing.
Exactly. If I was mad at you, I yell, I say whatever it is, blah, blah, blah, we kiss and make up at
some point and act like nothing ever happened. What's interesting about that? Yes, you are
completely correct. I've talked to my therapist about it. I've said on other episodes, she's
specifically said to me, can you give me one couple in your life that you would like to emulate? I was
like, nah, yeah, yeah, no. As I'm older now, I realized those weren't help not one. There was not one
healthy relationship among me. Yeah. Again, normal, maybe not healthy. Yeah. Right. So yes,
two major relationships in and it's like, I'm trying to do better for myself. Yet I am with these
men or men ish who men ish who at this point are also raised with all their families do a sweep
all the shit under the rug. Old school thinking is a Hispanic men on top of that ish. And there's
a lot of ego in that. Yes. And it's kind of like, Oh, I'm just used to hearing my dad say what he's
going to say. My mom said whatever this and slam into the doors and boom. And that's it. So now
when I'm me, Teresa, when I'm trying to have a conversation with you, and now I'm looking at you
like there's nothing there. It's like talking to a wall. Now I'm getting pissed. Now here I go
employing the one thing that I've always seen is the screaming at the screaming at the wall
expecting the water and see you and all the wall does is sink back into I'm a little boy. Yeah,
who doesn't understand I have to speak. Right. Like I have to say my piece. I'm a kid again,
who's listening to the arguing and the best way to resolve the arguing is to not say shit. Yeah,
right. And that's just a cycle that we perpetuate constantly and we lie to avoid the confrontation.
Yeah, I have something to tell you that's that's that's you know, we're in a relationship and I
have something to tell you that I know that's going to upset you. Oftentimes I wouldn't just I just
wouldn't say it because I don't want the conflict. Right. Exactly. So you right. So then you you shy
away from having a necessary conversation because you're worried about the repercussions of the
response. Exactly. And you don't want to deal with that. And so it's it's a it's a two part
problem. Right. It's you need to your conflict resolution. Right. It all starts with communication
and communication is like, you know, people say it all the time. It's like, Oh, yeah, yeah.
Like people say, Oh, yeah, communication. Just talk. Yeah. But it has to be very specific needs to be
addressed in a way where it's not you versus me. Right. Right. It's you and I versus the problem.
And I know that's that people have said that many times. This is a quote that people have said and
everything. But it's there's nothing more true. Yeah. And it's like, we are on the same boat
paddling in the same direction. The second that we start fighting with each other, it's new. Yeah.
Seven of saying, yeah, it's like, you know, that that's what it is. It's like, you, you, you know,
like, we not I mean, listen, I'm not saying that there should never be a fight between a couple
there's always going to be an argument or a disagreement. But when that becomes the norm,
when that becomes the, the go to de facto standard of your relationship, and it's like,
it's just going to be doomed. Yeah. I mean, I agree, especially if you don't have proper conflict
resolutions, like you haven't talked about that, you haven't talked about it's like, how do we,
you know, how do we disengage when we get too hot? You know what I mean? Like all of these things,
you got to have these conversations. And it's like, you know, and know how to be expressive,
how you feel and how to validate somebody's feelings and not dismiss them. When you, you know,
like, there's a lot of things that you have to take into account to have a successful relationship.
That's what everybody wants. Everybody wants the key. We're here for connection. Yeah, exactly.
Right. This idea that we're going to be like, Oh, no, you know, you're going to be like,
Oh, I would girls and this and that and whatever. It's like, look, that was fun when you were 18,
chasing skirts and, you know, getting your body count up. I get that. You know what I'm saying?
Exactly. But you know, at some point, it's like, you know, you grow up and you start realizing,
it's like, Oh man, you know, I the good stuff is not that. That's not good stuff. When you have a
real good connection with somebody, I'm like, look, I'm dating now, but my purpose is like,
I'm trying to fall in love again. Yeah, thank you. Now that doesn't mean that, you know, I'm going to,
you know, fall in love with everybody or whatever. I'm like, you know, thirsty for that, whatever
it doesn't happen again, it doesn't happen. It's what it is. But it's like, but that's my objective.
You know, I was talking to this person and oh, wait, let me say this person that sounds very open
ended a man. Yeah, I got you. Let's not throw that out there. I'm glad you had to clarify that.
I was like, let me just clarify just in case. And people don't know you on this platform.
That's they do not know yet. And we don't want to throw that out there. Although to be honest,
I mean, you know what? I've had enough failures the other way. It doesn't hurt to sometimes try. I
guess I guess we'll see, right? They'll welcome you with open arms. I guess we'll see, right?
But I remember we would have conversations and it was almost after a while too much for him.
Like he would open up and I was surprised because like why he's like, I've never opened up before,
but then he would say things, okay, okay, I think we talked enough. And I'm like, and I'd be taken
aback every time. I'm like, yo, we're just having a conversation. Like, like it was like it floored
me because I was like, I was like, first of all, that was a little like, hold up, slowly roll.
Yeah. Like shit doesn't just get cut when you think it needs to get cut. And you know, me,
someone would be like, okay, okay, okay, me. I'm like, what the fuck? Like, why is it you,
you telling me, you know what I mean? That that's just enough. I'm like, look,
if you're uncomfortable, say it that way. Right? If you're a confidant, listen, you know what,
I think let's take a step back. You know, we get a little deep here. I'm a little comfortable,
but nobody is taught how to communicate that way. It's just, I'm going to say what I want to say.
So what I wanted to ask you, interestingly enough, because I know we went started going to
relationships and we'll definitely get back there. But a big question I have for you is
with only giving as much info as you'd like, you know, it's up to you if you want to be an open
book grader, you can be as cryptic as you like. But for you, what do you think the turning point
was for you where you just realized you needed help? What you needed to do for you and finally
say, listen, like when, like if you were angry or, you know, what was it for you that you said,
okay, I'm a man in my 30s and my 40s and some shit ain't working anymore.
I'm getting to the point where it's like my second wife telling me that I got to go because
I was mistreating her like, you know, not abusively physically or anything like that, but verbally,
you know, just not very nice. And then a twofold problem is that and my daughter witnessing me
be that person. Yeah. You know, like it was something where it's like, you know, sometimes you
start fighting and you start fighting, you know, in proximity of your children and they hear these
things and they see how you're behaving and all this stuff. And then what happens is,
and then what happens is, you know, at some point, your kid starts, you know, picking a side.
Yeah. Right. Yeah, my poor kids. Yeah. Yeah. And they start going, wow, this person's a dick.
Yeah. You know, for lack of a better word. No, they're very intelligent. Yeah. Yeah. They don't
have to see it. They don't have to say it to see it. They know, they know who's being the aggressor
and all that stuff. Who's being unfair, who's being mean and all that stuff. You know what I'm
saying? And it's like, and I, that broke my heart, you know, like just understanding that my daughter
seeing me as this like ogre kind of guy, you know what I'm saying? It's like, I never want that.
You know what I mean? Like my whole mantra is be the type of man that, you know, I want my daughter
to bring home to me one day to me. You know what I'm saying? Like if I, if I, like that's how you
are a role model, you're a role model to your kids, whether you want to be or not. Ladies
and gentlemen, say like that. I simply would say just making this a DC single just saying. Make
me make this like the dating game. Don't get me in trouble like that. I feel you though. Yeah.
But that's, but that's it. Right. Like it's, that's my daughter. Right. Like that's my,
that's that's who I'm raising to be a productive member of society. If she is, she sees me like
I cannot do that to me.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So, you know, that's what really changed.
And I said, I gotta get help in that weather,
you know, therapy, whether that was,
you know, granted, I was in a very deep,
depressive state around that time,
like especially during COVID
and I'm at home cooped up and everything.
And it's just like, I'm not saying that that's an excuse
or a reason for my behavior or what it is.
No, but that was also normal.
But that was normal.
At the time too.
Yeah, that was normal.
That felt like this is what we're doing.
And you know, there was a lot of ego.
Yeah.
You know, because that's the thing too, right?
Like you grew up and you start listening to fights
amongst adults, parents, uncles and aunts, right?
And there's a lot of like ego in that.
Yes.
And so sometimes you kind of, you know,
you start faking that.
Like you start feeling like, I remember one time I was,
a girl said something that I was dating.
I was in high school and she started talking
on the phone with me about,
actually she didn't start talking to me.
She, we were having a conversation and a girlfriend,
like this was when we were using pay phones.
So she was calling me from a pay phone outside or whatever.
And so I'm in the Bronx and some girl comes around
one of her friends or whatever.
And they start talking about this cute guy
that they saw at the Bolega or whatever.
Now I'm not paying any attention to this.
I'm like 15, 16 years old around this time or whatever.
And I remember like listening to this.
And then at some point it just clicked to me.
It's like, ooh, am I supposed to like fain jealousy here?
I'm not jealous.
Oh yeah. So she was one of your girlfriends.
I think I missed that.
One of your girlfriends.
Yeah, one of my girlfriends that I was dating in high school.
Oh God. Oh yeah.
Nothing serious.
Nothing like, you know, we were like romantically involved
through months or whatever.
But we were just talking, things were cool.
You know, we were dating.
Puppy love kind of stuff, you know what I mean?
And I remember I was like, am I supposed to act jealous here?
I don't know.
Because this is what I typically see dudes do.
And I just started like, you know, fainting jealousy.
Right? And I was like, yo, are you going to talk to these?
Yeah, how you talk to your friends?
You're like in front of me about these guys, whatever.
Like, you know, I didn't even know where to start.
And she just shut it down immediately.
She was like, uh-uh.
Like, no, we ain't going to do that.
You're going to be over here telling me what to do or whatever.
I don't even remember conversation.
And I realized, man, I fucked up the puss like that.
I could have told me like shut up about it.
Like, you know what I'm saying?
Like, we were close.
Yeah.
And so that was, I remember like that was the feeling.
Like, I was like, man, you know, I'm acting like an idiot.
You know, like, I was like, I'm not jealous.
And to be honest with you, I've never been jealous.
Like, that's just not a thing.
That's a very ego.
That's a very egotistical thing.
I'm not, you know, that's just never really been my thing.
Like, it's like this idea that it's like, oh, yeah,
you slept with other men or whatever.
Like, that never really bothered me.
Like, you know what I'm saying?
It's like, as long as there's honesty in it,
and you're not trying to do anything deceptive
or you're not trying to act liberally, like, do me dirty.
Because that's the thing I pay attention to.
I don't pay attention to like what you do.
I pay attention to your, you know,
I pay attention to what your intention is.
You know what I mean?
That makes sense.
That's how I'm getting now, now that I'm learning more
than how I am now.
Yeah, like what's your intention?
What's your intention?
You understand what I'm saying?
It's like, if your intention wants to hurt me,
then it's like, cool, it didn't work, but fuck you.
Exactly.
You see what I'm saying?
Yeah.
So that's where I'm at with that.
And I've always kind of been like that.
I just, maybe at that, when I was younger,
I wasn't able to quite capture that into words
to like express it.
But, you know, being older now
and sort of revisiting all these things
is now like, oh, okay, cool.
And that's where you get.
Like you just start understanding where your belief system is.
And I think that everybody's belief system
needs to be kind of reevaluated at some point,
whether that's religion,
whether that's relationships or whatever.
It's like, reconsider the information that you have,
revisit these things and go about it.
Like you might be wrong.
Yeah, we're wrong about a lot.
Practice a little humility.
Humility.
Yeah.
I say all the time.
Yeah.
It doesn't mean that you don't get to,
it doesn't mean that you're not the best.
It doesn't mean that, you know,
that you know, they're not good at what you do
or any of that.
This is just a human evolutionary thing.
Like we're supposed to do these things.
You know, I always say, as I get older,
I've noticed a few things.
People, and I'll say people,
but I don't have a lot of female friends necessarily.
I have more male friends.
I have a lot of female acquaintances,
people that I can go and hang out with,
talk to, see all the time, whatever, right?
And because I tend to get along
because I'm very open-mouthed.
I'm very, I'm not as judgmental as I used to be, right?
I've learned that that's, I didn't know that's what I was.
Yeah, yeah.
Right?
I didn't realize, but I was raised
with very judgmental female voices.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you learn things that you don't realize
that that was not correct, right?
Yeah.
So as I've gotten older and told,
man, you're not, I don't feel like you're judging me and stuff.
Now, I'm sure any ex-husbands might say the opposite, right?
But it wasn't necessarily like, oh, it started out like that.
It was kind of like, well, I'm giving you
kind of what you're giving me.
You know what I mean?
It was like, if I'm gonna judge you
was cause I'm probably judging the lack, right?
Or whatever the case may be, right?
It could be who the hell knows at this point.
I don't even, I don't think I've evaluated those situations.
I think I more evaluated myself.
Yeah.
What I've seen a lot, not just,
and a lot in the older male population
is a lot of the times it's just in general
not having that role model necessarily to say to,
not just you gotta be a man, meaning straight,
you know, straighten up, stay straight, don't show weakness,
you know, provide, that's a whole different type of be a man.
Right, right, yeah, yeah.
It's that other side of be a man.
Keeping an open mind, evolving, learning, changing,
being there spiritually, emotionally, whatever.
And when you can't be, learn how to be, right?
Yeah, yeah.
There's just such a deficit, I think, in that.
And it makes me, it makes me a little nervous
because it's like, these are the generations
that are bringing up the younger ones.
And I've seen, obviously I've seen a difference
and a lot of it, Raquel and I had the conversation.
A lot of it we think has to do with some of the social media
where you can connect with people on these levels
that you weren't able to before.
Yeah.
So there's, you can feel like you can be a little more open
about who you are, what you are,
they have no prom expressing
and saying who they are very openly.
I don't know who the hell I am, I'm almost 41.
Yeah, yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like I had my therapist say to me, who is Teresa?
And I was like, that's no one's ever asked me that before.
I always felt maybe I was conforming to other people, right?
My entire life, I was what you wanted me to be.
We have this need to please people sometimes.
Yeah.
And sometimes it gets to a point where it's unhealthy.
For real.
And that's codependency and that neediness.
It got to the point that, again, it wasn't so recently
that I even learned about codependence.
And I was like, oh my God, that makes sense.
I got a whole kind of codependence like thing going on.
It's like, yeah, it's like sexually speaking.
That's a whole nother issue.
Men really become, it's very easy to become codependent
and not even realize it.
Yes.
Right?
So I'll tell you a story about sexuality.
Okay.
For a long time, sex to me was like,
how I was able to keep my thoughts bottled in, right?
You wouldn't be alone in that.
Everything, right.
Everything that I've ever wanted to express
and everything that was bothering me,
sex was the vehicle that allowed me
to shut that down for a while.
Makes sense.
Yeah.
That was the way that I was able to.
It was an addiction.
Yeah.
But here's the thing, right?
It happens in a way that you are completely unaware.
But I mean, so do drugs.
You could be completely under control
with heroin one day.
And then the next thing you know,
you're leaning in the street and falling in a ditch
and you don't know how you got there.
Exactly.
Everything happens the same way.
Exactly.
You're slow and then the next thing you know,
you're completely codependent.
And then you can't even,
and then even then the regular high is the same
and it just escalates.
So, but here's how it works out.
Here's how it at least manifested for me, right?
It was like, okay, so I'm having sex.
And you know, as long as I'm having sex
and it's good sex and everything's great, cool.
Everything's cool.
There's no fights.
There's nothing going on.
Life is good.
It's beautiful.
Boom, boom, boom.
We're going, I'm going to work.
You know, like, oh, and I can't wait to come back home
to you and beautiful, right?
Right.
And every time that there's a problem,
sex would, you know, sweep down the rug.
Sweeping into the rug.
You know what I mean?
It's a recurring theme, isn't it?
It really is.
It is.
So now what happens?
Things start to get a little busy.
We start focusing on careers.
You're married, kids, whatever it is,
whatever impediment to more sex gets in the way.
And that attachment.
Now it's not, yeah.
Now it's not every day or twice a day.
Like it starts off like, oh, it's every time.
It does.
It starts off a lot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You start off like two days.
Yes.
Like, oh, yeah, no doubt.
You know what I'm saying?
On the weekends, it's crazy, right?
Like you're going hungry and shit and stupid.
So yeah, yeah.
Like, yeah.
But you're like, you're powering through
and you're like, you're doing what you can.
And after a while, it's like, all right,
you know, every day is kind of crazy, right?
And you start like, trimming it down, you know?
It starts to go to like five a week, four a week,
three a week, and then eventually you get to this point
where like, you don't know how you got there,
but it's like once a week.
And it's like, man, you look forward to that Saturday.
And maybe that's good enough for you, right?
But if it gets below that, you have a threshold,
whatever your threshold is, if it gets below that,
you're grouchy now.
And everything sets you the fuck off.
And everything is starting to leak out.
Exactly.
Yeah, your idling, it's 80 right now.
You're saying you're like, whatever.
So like whatever it is, you know, you just bomb
a flat tire or whatever it is,
just setting you right off, fight this shit.
You know what I'm saying?
And you come home and you're taking it out
on people that you love and everything is whatever.
And you don't even realize that that's what it is.
It's like being angry, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, so you start reacting in a way
where it's just like irrational and things like that.
And I mean, it wasn't until two marriages failing
that I started realizing, oh, I developed a coping mechanism.
Yes, exactly.
And that was it for me.
And I didn't know that.
Exactly.
That's scary shit.
It is scary because you realize, because you realize
this is exactly how people get hooked to drugs.
That's it.
I was just going to say, alcohol and alcoholism too.
That's exactly what it is.
That's what it is.
So now all of a sudden you are, you're having sex
not for the connection, but for the suppression.
That's it.
Yeah.
And so that's the tricky part, right?
Like that's the thing where it's like, OK, you decided
that instead of actually processing all of these emotions
that you've had and talking it out and really like,
you were just sweeping it around and that doesn't go away.
That's kind of a good segue too, because that I feel.
And again, correct me if I'm wrong in your opinion,
but that's not solely a male thing, obviously.
Yeah, no, absolutely not.
But it is a huge male thing, right?
And I don't mean codependency because that is a human.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's human nature.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Human nature completely.
You know, I'm codependent when I realized my trauma was
making me codependent.
Yeah.
My life trauma was making me codependent, right?
I didn't realize that.
And both of my marriages, and actually the first one
of the two were very young.
We were just, that shouldn't have been in general.
But we had our daughter, so it was supposed to be, right?
But the second one was a trauma bond on both sides.
Yeah.
Right?
I didn't know his codependencies.
I didn't know any of his stuff, right?
He didn't know that.
You know?
So then as you are progressing in a relationship
and you do not have the tools, or let me rephrase this,
even going to couples therapy, when there's one who is
accepting and trying to evolve and change,
and the other refuses to admit there's an issue.
Now you have a head to head, even more of a head to head
issue than you had before, right?
So and now you're not only trauma bonded,
you're codependent, you don't know how to let go.
One is out acting the hell out.
And the other is traumatized PTSD, is what I'm saying?
And again, it wasn't until recently that I even
realized that codependency is a form of a drug.
Absolutely.
Right?
Yes, it's a mental, I'm not going to say mental illness,
quote unquote, it is a mental deficiency.
Because we don't realize that it happens.
It happens so often.
Only a healthy person can finally say, holy crap,
I can see that in myself.
And then you can start to see it in others.
Yeah.
And that's kind of hard as well.
And for men, what I want to ask you is for men,
and again, we'll say men of color,
because you can speak for men of color.
You're a light man of color, but you are men of color.
I present white, but yes, I am definitely a man of color.
I present white too.
I say our blood is brown.
We're good.
We're very light.
As soon as I have to hand over that license,
and it says Jose, yeah, it gets real.
I say the same thing.
You see my resume, it sees my name,
it doesn't matter what I look like.
Right?
It's just that.
It gets put to the bottom of the pile.
And Raquel, we're talking about that too.
It's being then a colored man who already
has enough deficiencies in general,
just your name alone, as we were just stating.
How is it, or why is it that, and again,
maybe it's because of upbringing,
but why is it that men of color, one,
are so reluctant to admit there's problems there?
And why are they not able to reach out, or to admit,
or want to reach out to get the help that they need?
Now, we know again, we know that white males,
of course, they have more, we have more ancestral trauma,
right, colored folks, black and brown,
we have more ancestral trauma.
So that's passed down, right?
That's passed down.
Not as many white people have that, right?
But they have things like the major mental illnesses,
not just depression.
Like they have the real flip of the switch,
different ones, right, than we have.
So what do you think?
What do you think is the deficiency there?
I think it's just learned behavior.
And I don't think it's exclusive to Hispanics,
obviously, or black folks or anybody.
But what happens is, if anybody ever talks about Hispanic men
to you, they usually talk about all the bravado,
or they say machismo, but machismo.
That kind of stuff.
And it's like, yeah.
And even if you, you know what I mean,
and it's not necessarily frowned upon in certain aspects,
but sometimes it does become a little toxic, as they say.
Oh, it's purely toxic, yes.
And I hate that term, like toxic masculinity,
because masculinity in and of itself is not toxic,
but there are toxic traits.
Yes, yes.
There are things that you do that are toxic,
so I don't want to just throw the whole masculinity.
I'm happy to be a man, and I'm happy to represent manhood
in the way that I can.
The ego that we learn, that we develop as Hispanic men,
or as men of color, as you state,
is, I think, part of the issue.
Because it's all the learned behavior.
You see the same men.
And when you grow up as a kid and you see these men,
your objective is to mimic.
You know what I mean?
If you didn't grow up with good men in your life,
then the problem compounds.
Exactly, exactly.
I was fortunate enough to see, see,
here's the thing that's really funny,
and I'll tell you the story.
I was fortunate enough to see good and bad,
meaning that there are a lot of men of substance
in my family and around, and even friends and things
like that.
So I was fortunate enough to see good quality men who were
always even keel, very measured in the way they speak,
very, you never see them upset.
You're not necessarily see them cry,
but you never see them lose their shit.
Oh, OK, yeah.
Yeah, I have a bunch of them in mind, too.
Right.
Yes.
So as I grew up, that didn't look fun, right?
You look at these men kind of like, eh, you know,
I don't want to be that guy.
I don't want to be like this guy.
Whoever it is, whether it's your dad,
whether it's an uncle, or whatever,
you want to be the guy with the bravado.
You want to be the guy.
You want to be the guy that's the sweet talker,
that's the sharp tongue, that's the, you know,
he ain't taking no shit, because that's
what your ego craves.
You know it's like that for females, too.
Yes, you're right.
Yeah, and you're right.
So here's the thing, like women always say,
it's like, oh, I want a nice guy.
You don't want a nice guy.
What you want is the bad guy to be nice to you.
That's come on, my God.
Yes, you're right.
Yeah.
That's exactly it.
So I never want to be the nice guy.
I want to be a good guy.
Yeah.
That's what I want to be.
I want to make sure that you understand
that there's no fucking with me in any capacity, not verbally,
not physically, I am unfuckable with.
You understand what I'm saying?
So from that perspective.
That's what tattoo you should get.
Yay.
So from that perspective, it's like,
I need to have that certainty about myself.
You understand what I'm saying?
According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health
Services Administration, or also known as SAMHSA,
apparently, service cost or lack of insurance coverage
was the most frequently cited reason for not using
mental health services across all racial and ethnic groups.
Unfortunately, we know that that's a huge problem.
So it's not even just my cheese mo on top of everything else.
It's lack of resources, lack of education, lack of want to.
Because one thing I have noticed with men around your age,
specifically, because unfortunately, that's my dating
pool now, I've noticed.
Congratulations.
I know, right?
Lord Jesus help me, is they're extremely self-aware.
A lot of them are extremely self-aware,
but have the lack of will and the lack of want.
Yeah, I have noticed that in a few cases.
I have noticed that with women too.
Oh, I'm not saying women are devoid of this.
No, no, no.
I'm just laying out my perspective too.
It's that same idea that we touched on before,
where it's like, when you go to therapy,
you know that the outcome is going to be that you may hear
something that you don't want to hear.
Amen.
And being wrong, it's not palatable for a lot of people.
So this is why I say it's so important to put your ego aside
for a second.
Someone said to me, I won't obviously say who,
but someone said to me, I am scared to change,
because I don't think people will like me if I'm a new person.
Regardless of the fact that people aren't really
a fan of this person, the way they are now,
but they're so scared to change.
And I keep saying it's not about changing.
It's about improving.
It's about just opening your mind and saying, OK,
I could be better.
And we all could be better.
We all could do better.
We all could treat others better.
I was like, why live in a mental misery when you can just
adjust your way of thinking?
The truth is though that it's like, I'm 46 now.
Through the course of my life, I've lost a lot of friends.
Not the death or anything.
Yeah, I just mean I've outgrown a lot of friends.
Yeah, agreed.
You're going to lose friends when you focus on your career.
Because that's what happens.
Oh, you get out of high school, you start working, whatever.
You have your second childhood in your 20s.
Now you've got a little money, you start partying and all
this stuff.
And then at some point, you might need somebody.
And things start to get serious.
And now you're considering marrying somebody,
maybe kids, whatever it is.
And now it's like, well, at least that was my thing.
OK, I met somebody.
It's like, I want to get serious about my career,
because she's serious about her career.
And I don't want to fall behind and not be that dude.
And I always had this thing where it's like,
I got to make sure I don't want to be broke.
I don't want to be this bum ass dude.
You know what I'm saying?
That was my thing.
So I had to figure out how to get something going for myself.
And I realized, and at that point, I've already been working
for years.
And I knew that it's like, what I was doing
wasn't working for me.
So I had to come to the conclusion
that I needed to find something to do.
I came to the conclusion that I needed to find something to do.
And when I started evaluating all my options,
I think that what I arrived to was a crossroad where I said,
I'm either going to be a chef or I'm going to be an IT.
We had that conversation a long time ago.
I remember that now.
Wow, yeah.
And so the deciding factor was that I was fat
and I hated the heat.
Right?
I love cooking.
But being in the summer in a hot kitchen,
that sounded like hell to me.
It sounds like hell to me.
Like all day, 12 hours, whatever.
Like even if I was an executive chef, it's like, no, I'm good,
bro.
That's not where I want to be.
So IT was it for me.
And then I found out bonuses.
Like, you can go to a data center.
It's cold as shit.
Yes, it is.
I've been in a data center.
Yes.
It is frigid in there.
That was just tickling me pink.
I love it.
And so I made a career choice for myself
that I was happy with.
I was even when I hustled even at night.
I found my own clients.
I started getting my own thing going on.
It's like, so there was 12, 16 hour days on a regular basis.
And I was just killing it because I liked what I was doing.
Anyway, the point of that story was to tell you
that I lost friends because I grew them.
They wanted to stay in one place.
And I had to keep going.
It's like this ladder that people are saying,
the ladder of life that everybody's trying to climb.
Exactly.
We're all trying to climb.
And every once in a while, you're a good person.
And you throw a hand down.
Hey, hold onto my hand.
I'll help you up.
But here's the thing.
I'm not coming back down to get you.
That's an excellent way of putting it.
You see what I'm saying?
You have to meet me up here.
I'm going to throw my hand down.
Reach up and I got you.
And there's been a lot of times in my life
where it's like I've been in that situation.
And it was like, no, I'm not doing this.
From my experience, it's been kind of the opposite.
I've never necessarily needed someone to say I got you.
But I've never had anybody offer the I got you.
And sometimes you end up chasing that.
Inevitably.
A whole different kind of perspective, right?
So it's like, yeah, I mean, I will help anybody.
I'll give the shirt off my back.
Always have been.
I'm like, come up.
I will help you to my level.
Let's do this together.
I'm cool with doing stuff together.
But you're right.
I'm not going to go backwards, especially
if I've made this much progress going forward.
The problem is, though, every once in a while,
it is nice to hear someone say I got you.
Absolutely.
Well, that's the whole takes the village kind of thing.
To this day, I still.
And I almost feel like, and this is something
I work through myself because it's not needed.
It's still a want of mine.
And it doesn't necessarily have to be a friend.
It could be in a relationship at some point where someone says,
for once, let me get you.
Yeah, yeah.
Sit down.
Right?
Yeah, yeah.
Take a break.
Relax.
Let me get you, right?
Because I feel that talking with your latter analogy
is realistically, we should be going up together.
Yeah, yeah.
Right?
Yeah, yeah.
Every once in a while, I'll throw my hands down.
And you throw your hands down.
We'll have to throw each other over each other.
Fine, right?
If we're going to make it double wide,
and both of us to go up at the same time, that's great too.
You know what I mean?
We'll do it soon next to each other, whatever it is.
And I think so in that respect, it's
always great to be able to tell other people I got you.
But every once in a while, that's exhausting.
And every once in a while, it's like,
when is someone going to say I got you?
And even though I have progressed in my journey,
in my mental health journey, in my emotional,
spiritual journey, even though I forget to the point
that I'm like, I don't really need that shit,
sometimes it's just human nature to want it.
Well, I got news for you.
Men have that need too.
OK.
And not necessarily monetarily or anything else,
but it's like, it's one of the love languages,
they say, acts of service.
It's acts of service.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
And so what happens is that it's nice to be taken care of.
It's nice to know that there's somebody who's looking out
for you, and their generosity is displayed.
When you're a man, specifically, and I'm
talking about from my perspective, when you're a man
and you're expected to provide, and by provide,
it's financially, I'm providing security.
I'm providing wisdom to you.
These are the things that I'm providing.
And all that stuff encompasses a security for you.
This is what makes you feel like provided for and cared for.
And it gives you that ease of everything's going to be OK.
Because I got this very capable man who, if I fuck up,
it's going to be OK.
It's going to be OK.
Right?
Like, it's the safety net I did.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
And so what happens is men generally
don't feel they have that.
So there's a stress that comes with that to say,
if I fuck up the bag, all is lost.
Yeah.
I could see that.
And so that comes with some emotional baggage.
Baggage.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
And so now it's like, even when I try to date,
it's like, there are a couple of things that I'm looking for.
And one of those is, I need to have a woman who's
intelligent for starters.
Because number one, most of the things that we're
going to be doing is talking.
So you should.
Which should be, of course.
Yeah.
We're going to talk a lot.
So you know what I'm saying?
If we're going to have a healthy relationship,
we want to communicate well.
And I don't want to have to break everything down
to a third grade level because you're having problems
keeping up.
You know what I'm saying?
So that's number one.
Read a book.
Just read a book.
And when you have an intelligent woman,
she's going to challenge you.
She's going to challenge you.
She's going to question you right.
She's going to challenge you.
She's going to question you.
You're both going to be beneficiaries
of that constant discussion.
Right.
You know what I mean?
It's like, OK, cool.
Because if she's career oriented and she's goal driven,
you know what I mean?
It's like, OK, cool.
Like, you know, men tend to match energy.
That's exactly correct.
I've been learning that too.
Because here's the thing, right?
Like, as a man, here's part of where your ego is healthy.
Right?
It's like, here's where I like to let my ego get the best of me.
It's like, if you are killing it at work and all that stuff,
it's like, I don't want to be that dude that's not, you know,
where my wife is going, yo, what's up, bro?
You know what I'm saying?
You ain't killing it no more.
What's happening?
Yeah.
Right?
And so I don't want to do that.
No, if I, you know, I'm doing OK.
I'm good, you know what I'm saying?
So I'm not worried about that.
But what I'm saying is, like, I have a need to make sure
that I'm keeping up, that I'm pulling my weight.
Right.
That makes sense.
Now, if you get to a point where you're making $250,000
or more or whatever like that, like, you know what I mean?
And it's like, and I'm only making like $180,000?
Only $180,000, huh?
What I'm saying?
It's like, you know, I'm good.
It's like, hey, look, it is what it is.
You know what I'm saying?
It's like, I don't have any problems with that.
Even if you're making $1 million a year and I'm pulling in $180,000,
I don't care.
Like, I'm doing what I set out to do.
I got my goal.
Exactly.
You see what I'm saying?
So like, if you get to that point where it's like, OK, cool,
that doesn't bother me anymore.
However, now I got to find ways to make sure
that I'm supporting you in the sense that, like, hey,
you know, it might make more sense for me
to be a little bit more supportive and quit my job
to make sure that you're making, because you're making
substantially more money than me, to some degree.
So like, you know, that's where that applies.
It's like, for me, it's like, I'm always going to let that ego,
you know, try to make me a better person for me and for you.
As opposed to making that ego destroy you.
Exactly.
As opposed to being like.
As we know that is the popular way to handle it.
Yeah.
The ego should, your ego shouldn't be convincing you
that you need to stop her progress.
That's exactly.
That's what I call, you know what I call it, the anti-ego.
Yeah.
It's like, you're hurting both of you.
Yeah.
So I think this is, we're going to stop here,
because we have so much more conversation.
And I think this is a good segue into dating in our 40s.
Let's do it.
Not necessarily each other, just so everybody's aware.
But we're just friends, guys.
We're just friends, guys.
Jesus.
But I do love him, because I do.
He's a really good, really good friend of mine.
And we have.
She's pretty cute too.
But you know, still, it's just cute.
You can't really tell, but I'll take it.
I gotcha.
I'll take it.
We're going to have a part two.
And yeah, thanks for listening, and we'll be back.
Sounds good.
Thank you all so much for listening to this first episode
of the new season.
Don't forget to come back in February
for part two of this thrilling and wonderfully enticing
episode discussion with Jose, where we're going to laugh
and have a lot of fun.
Don't forget to hit me up on PersecoQueensPodcast.gmail.com.
Also on IG at PersecoQueensPodcast,
we are also on YouTube at PersecoQueensPodcast,
where you can listen to our episodes also.
Looking forward to this new year and all its new possibilities.
[? And we'll be back, all and all.?]