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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Rounding the Earth podcast.

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You know, I usually have a script open when I do this introduction, and as I hit go live,

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I realized I hadn't pulled it up.

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So I'm going to improvise this.

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Rounding the Earth is what would you say?

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The gathering of people who take no formal stance on the shape of the Earth would be

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the first thing I would say.

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The second thing is this is where people gather to discuss important issues that are normally

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not talked about in extensive enough detail or something like that.

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But for those of you who have joined us before, you know that Rounding the Earth is based

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on the popular Substack series written by applied statistician and educator Matthew

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Crawford.

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And you can keep up with us by going to roundingtheearth.locals.com, roundingtheearth.substack.com, or of course,

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subscribing here on wherever you are watching.

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My name is Liam Sturgis.

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I am co-host of the Rounding the Earth podcast, and my usual co-host, Matthew Crawford, may

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well join us at some point.

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He's just recovering from another night of very hard work, as he always does.

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But I'm very excited today because for the first time, we're having an open round table

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where our guests are the members of Operation Uplift, which is, well, I'm going to have

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some of them explain what Operation Uplift is.

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So let's bring them on.

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I'm going to come one by one.

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First, allow me to introduce Cody Porter, then Diane, and finally, Gabriel.

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show.

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Great to be here.

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So I don't know about you guys, Cody has gone black on my screen, and I prefer his handsome

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face, so hopefully that reappears.

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But in the meantime, do you want to introduce yourselves to the audience who may or may

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not be familiar with who you are?

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Let's start with Cody.

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Can you see me now?

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Yes, sir.

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Excellent, excellent.

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So my name is Cody Porter.

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I've been a member of Operation Uplift since pretty early.

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I helped run it for a long time, and now I've taken up more of a backseat.

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I've been on this program once before, interviewed with Matthew, so anybody who's interested

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can look up the past interview on that.

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And if you have any other questions, I guess Liam, let me know.

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Yeah, I just thought maybe you could pitch the topic of discussion that you and Matthew

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had, because it was quite interesting.

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Could you give us just a one-liner of what it was?

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Yeah, so my work is with a certain receptor called RAGE, Receptor for Advanced Glycation

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In Products.

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And I think it has more of a possible role in spike protein-induced damage, either from

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COVID or from the vaccine.

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And so we did an interview talking about how I think that has a role in spike protein-induced

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damage.

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Awesome.

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So I'll make sure to grab a link to that interview and put it in the chat as we keep going.

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Wonderful.

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Diane, would you like to introduce yourself?

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Hi, I'm Diane Beagle, and I'm one of the few people in Operation Uplift that doesn't know

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anything.

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I'm kind of the team mom and sometimes a life coach, and sometimes I am needing life coach

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work.

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I live in Houston, where it's raining, and I was just playing around when Etienne posted

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the link and I hit it and here I am.

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This is unplanned.

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I am in my kitchen, as you can see.

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Yeah, when you came in, one of the first things you said was, I didn't mean to be here.

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Well, and that's sort of, in a sense, sort of the nature of Operation Uplift as a group

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of diverse people with diverse skill sets.

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I think you do know a lot of stuff.

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I don't think you're giving yourself enough.

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I'm a generalist, and I have been in this group since almost the very beginning.

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Yes, you have.

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August 21-ish or something like that.

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I want to dive into a bit of the background of Operation Uplift in a minute, but finally,

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Gabe, now Gabriel, you're someone who is probably becoming quite familiar to the Running

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Beard audience, which is, I think, a fantastic thing, but for those who may be tuning in

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for the first time, do you want to introduce yourself?

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Yeah, I mean, I consider myself one of the newer members or junior members of Operation

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Uplift.

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I had recently gotten in touch with Crawford asking about how I could make changes to the

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wiki because there are certain elements that I wanted to expand on the Canadian context

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for, which was great getting to know Liam, who is also Canadian, and I had seen it was

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already well in good hands already, but I'm grateful to have been able to add, and it

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seems like I have found a good place to talk about some of the issues I really care about,

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which I do really appreciate.

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Of course, you got your own initiative that itself could have a team of 125 people running

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with you, but you do it all on your own, Libra Solutions Network.

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Can you tell us about that very briefly?

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Yeah, my goal with that is really to market online freedom because there's a lot of things

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that people could do, but I want to explain why, first and foremost.

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Well, that's fantastic.

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Before we dive into the prompt, the topic of discussion, which is DDoS attack on the

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mind, I think it would be wise for us to just briefly explain what Operation Uplift is,

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maybe provide just a bit of historical detail, and address some of the projects that have

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been mentioned, the first being, of course, the Campfire wiki, which, Cody, as far as

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I understand, you were instrumental.

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You were one of a couple of people who physically created the thing and deployed it and maintained

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the admin keys that even I don't have.

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Could you give us a little background on what the Campfire wiki is, how it came about, and

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anything else surrounding that that is important?

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Yeah, so it's our group's attempt to catalog the research that we've done to kind of synthesize

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and bring together a lot of information because when we were first starting it and when we

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were forming right after the pandemic, there was a lot and it was very difficult to keep

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repeating ourselves and to keep track of everything.

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And so we thought, well, what if we put it all in one place?

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And so, yeah, I mean, I was in discussions with the name formation.

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I think Matthew eventually was the one who came up with it, but we were getting there

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into the ballpark for it.

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I mean, I helped put it together.

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I am one of the admins for it, even though I've not been as active as some of the other

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members on it lately.

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I helped put it together.

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And so I think that I'm very proud of it, of the work that we've all done there.

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And so it was interesting because I had never, who develops a wiki?

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I had never done it before.

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And so it was a lot of work figuring out what service to use, how to get it set up, how

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to, you know, I put a lot of time into trying to come up with a backbone for how to store

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and sort the information, and then we ended up kind of scrapping that and going with a

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more organic approach, which has its benefits and pitfalls.

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So I think it was a lot of fun to do.

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And I think it is good to have a place where this kind of information can be organized

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and distributed.

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Yeah.

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And the project does continue to evolve as we ask, what are the things that are even

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relevant these days?

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As the COVID-19 story, at least officially, according to say the WHO has now wrapped up.

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It's, you know, it's come up in conversations.

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Gabe mentioned, well, are there other topics that maybe would not to the average eye seem

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to be relevant, that maybe we haven't put as much thought into organizing information

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on, but maybe now's the time to do that.

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So it's interesting.

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It remains a dynamic project.

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But the fact that it got up and running in the first place, as you suggest, is sort of

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unique.

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And I think you did a fantastic job pushing that boulder off down the hill where it continues

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to gain steam.

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So thank you for doing that.

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Thank you.

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Now, I'm curious.

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I'm curious, because this was, if I'm not mistaken, was this one of the first projects

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that Operation Uplift undertook?

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And furthermore, how did Operation Uplift start?

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What is it?

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Cody and Diane, I know you two are around before me.

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I came on, I don't know, I guess it would have been around August, September 2021, maybe

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even later.

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But do you guys have some insight?

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Were you there at the very beginning?

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What is Operation Uplift?

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Diane, were you here before I was?

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I can't recall.

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I don't know.

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I think maybe we were semi-simultaneous.

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Visceral Adventure wrote the best description.

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And had I known you were going to ask me that, I would have had it in front of me.

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But I don't.

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So to me, it just was this really oddball assortment of people worldwide who just did

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a crazy great job of curating information.

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And there weren't really projects because there wasn't any mission, per se, at the time.

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It was just a group of like-minded people going, what the hell's going on here?

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And what would happen is that everybody is just blasting stuff in the chat.

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And then it was something like, what the hell?

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And everybody, nobody said a word.

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And we were all off trying to source something that we found just incredible.

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Like the life insurance guy, is this real?

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Did he really say this?

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Here I found the source video.

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And everybody is blowing and going for hours to vet out a news headline or an article.

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And it's just amazing.

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And it was like we had some sort of something keeping us all in lockstep, but we didn't.

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But we all came together.

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Everybody was doing the same thing to the same end.

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And so when I told people about the group, I would say it's the most intelligent group

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of curators I've ever come across.

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I mean, that's where you get your COVID news.

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Excuse me.

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Maya, go ahead.

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No, no, no, please, Cody.

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My experience was slightly different, but very similar.

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When I joined the group, it was pretty early.

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I can't recall exactly when, but it was when Matthew first said he needed a research assistant

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or somebody to help him out.

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That's when I started.

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I was in the second.

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Yeah.

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I think maybe you and I both did.

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And I don't remember which was first.

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But he had found somebody by the time that I asked him, but he said, hey, do you want

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to join our group?

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It's just started.

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And I said, well, of course I did, as posterity shows.

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But for me, it was more of...

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For me, it was really a collection service because you guys are all so good at finding

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stuff from all over the internet.

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And so you would all post it into a chat system.

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And I would have a ton of things to look at and say, do I believe this?

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Do I not believe this?

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How much evidence is this?

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How much evidence is that?

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And it was very useful because I have a scientific background.

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And that was helpful because when I would read them, people would say, is this something

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I should care about?

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How important is this?

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And it forced me to sort and analyze and synthesize and discuss a ton of information really fast.

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Because as we're going to talk about today, the speed at which it was coming at you is

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just almost insurmountable.

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And so I think it really helped to have not only...

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It killed any sense of echo chamber for me because I wasn't looking in just one spot

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or another.

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At one point, we had 150 people who were just pushing out stuff into this feed saying, I

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found this on this part of the internet or this over here.

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And how much do we believe it?

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How do we weigh it?

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Is this something we should care about?

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And so it became just for ourselves, just as a personal sense-making apparatus, it became

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very valuable.

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And we realized that...

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And to answer your earlier question, the Wiki was very early.

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But we realized this is valuable to us.

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How do we make it valuable to other people?

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Yeah, that's the key.

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And I'm also curious.

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I think this is a good place to transition into our topic, but I want to do it in a bridging

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way.

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I'm curious as to how each of you first connected with...

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Well in this case, we can say Matthew as the sort of team leader.

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I believe at one point he called himself a benevolent dictator, tongue in cheek.

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But how did you guys first connect with Matthew or with each other in a way that then led

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to the group?

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And I asked the question through the frame of not only is there just a fire hose of information

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always, and particularly early on, it was difficult to know what was real and what was

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not.

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And it's a much better grip now, I think, but it was also that there were so many messengers

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and there were so many people where it was very difficult to know if people had good

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intentions or if people were bots or if people were bad actors.

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So I'm curious how you each connected with this larger group or with Matthew.

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Gabe, how about you as someone who's more recently connected?

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Yeah.

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I had been following Matthew a while, not very closely, but I would see either his comments

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on various social media or Substack itself.

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I would sometimes butt heads with him in the early days over the mass formation psychosis

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discussion because that's a contentious issue, right?

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And so I got in touch with him to see if I could contribute to the Wiki.

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But I will also say that it was really nice getting to know Visceral Adventure, who's

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also been part of the Spice Girls project, and a bunch of other multimedia efforts to

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communicate a lot of the stuff we discuss on the Wiki and during this crisis, so to

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speak.

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Yeah, wonderful.

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00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,840
And then, Diane, how did you initially connect?

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Because you respond to a call for assistance with research, but how do you even first find

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these people who are then putting out the calls?

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How did that connection first come about?

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Oh, God, I don't remember.

250
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So long ago now.

251
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It seems like a long time ago.

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I was so underwater here with this stuff, and I'm trying to think, and I was just pulling

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threads out there mostly via Twitter.

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And having kids, I was really interested in the vaccine and the dangers thereof.

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So I was all over that because I had explored the HPV vaccine 10 years prior when it was

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suggested my girls get it, and came down with a hard pass, had words to the pediatrician

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who told me I was crazy and do I want my girls to get cervical cancer?

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I said, well, of course I do.

259
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Well, what a wee idiot.

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Anyway, yeah, that's exactly what I want.

261
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Anyway, so I'm trying to think.

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It was just through thread pulling.

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I mean, I think, but I don't recall.

264
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I'm sorry.

265
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Yeah, the testament to how long it's been going on.

266
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How about you, Cody?

267
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I'm afraid I'm in a similar boat.

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I remember there was a Discord channel, and Bonnie was on it and you were on it.

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I just don't know.

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Well, right.

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But I mean, that happened in August.

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I think I found Matthew sometime in June or May when he was talking about the pandemic

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and when he was looking at death rates in different countries post-vaccine induction.

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And so, I mean, I was, but the reason I got there is because, well, essentially it's because

275
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the Dark Horse podcast, I think, which very early was saying, how much weight should we

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give this safe and effective kind of stance that everybody's taking and saying that this

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is safe and effective?

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Is that even possible?

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And I said, well, I don't think so.

280
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And then a couple of scientific papers came out that ended up forming the hypothesis that

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I discussed with Matthew on this channel.

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And then, so I was concerned.

283
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And so I was looking into this and I just happened to stumble upon, I don't even, it

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may have been from Twitter, but I wasn't even using Twitter very actively until after the

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pandemic.

286
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So I'm not sure.

287
00:18:52,280 --> 00:19:00,000
So yeah, but the Dark Horse podcast was Bret Weinstein, Steve Kirsch and Robert Malone.

288
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It was in June of 21.

289
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And I had watched literally and read everything from Robert Malone and Kirsch.

290
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And I was an active Bret Weinstein podcast listener.

291
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So that's, that all came together, Cody.

292
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And I think that's probably...

293
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Somehow we started there and ended up looking at Matthew's work.

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And then when he put out a call, he said...

295
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And all those tapes.

296
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And the thing about Matthew is, is that, you know, he and I have had disagreements on whether

297
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this is happening or that's happening.

298
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But I feel that he's intellectually honest.

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He's saying what he believes.

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And so I could tell that from reading his work and whether I disagreed or agreed or

301
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thought the evidence was there or not quite there.

302
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:56,520
I knew that talking to him about stuff he was doing would be valuable to me because

303
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he was somebody who believed what he was saying.

304
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And so when he needed help, I said, well, I could help.

305
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:03,800
And it just ended up...

306
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,360
I think the very first night I spoke to him, you know, he had said he didn't need a research

307
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:12,360
assistant and it was on Discord because we were using Discord at the time.

308
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I was the one that transferred us mostly over to Telegram.

309
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And we were on Discord and he said, you know, I don't need a research assistant, but I'm

310
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very busy.

311
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So I need somebody to run Operation Uplift.

312
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Would you just take over the group?

313
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And I said, oh, yeah, I guess I can.

314
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And so I was kind of like second in command for, you know, 2021 and part of 22 before.

315
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,680
I think, Liam, you mostly have that job now, is that right?

316
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,840
Well, Operation Uplift, I'd give it...

317
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:44,840
It's...

318
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,600
Well, so I think Diane and I are technically admins in the Telegram.

319
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,520
I'd say Diane probably is the bigger cheese there.

320
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,560
So you're in charge now, Diane.

321
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:54,560
Yeah, right.

322
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:55,560
Uh-huh.

323
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:56,560
Yeah.

324
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,560
This call is in charge.

325
00:20:58,560 --> 00:20:59,560
That's...

326
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:00,560
Yeah, that's the good...

327
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:01,600
We have been mostly...

328
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,940
As far as Operation Uplift goes nowadays, that really has become more of a gathering

329
00:21:05,940 --> 00:21:08,600
place for discussion more so than a project group.

330
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,240
And this is something we were talking about a couple of days ago.

331
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:18,680
But yeah, and I mean, as far as I'm concerned, I'm focused almost entirely on the rounding

332
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,480
the earth, the podcast side, like the external public engagement part now.

333
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:29,920
Yes, but also the way that these other things have happened is because of the collection

334
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:30,920
group, right?

335
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:36,120
Like that gives us not only connection to people who are excellent at what they do all

336
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:43,840
over the world, and then we have people literally all over the world, but it also gives us the

337
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:49,520
community and the drive and the stability to be able to actually have these other projects

338
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:50,520
that are done.

339
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:51,600
Oh, yeah.

340
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:56,800
And also I'll say something else we were talking about on a call the other night with a few

341
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,400
of us that there's all of that.

342
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:06,000
And then what's happened is if you consider the social landscape of the last few years

343
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:11,480
especially, it's been very alienating and very isolating.

344
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:16,440
And I know there have been, you know, a lot of times it revolves around pets, as we were

345
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:22,720
talking about Diane just before, but there are a number of very challenging personal

346
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:28,440
experiences that we've had across the last couple of years where, for example, at the

347
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,880
end of last year, it was when my cat Turtle got very sick and then passed away very quick.

348
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:39,720
And it was you guys primarily who helped me get through that.

349
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:45,440
And it's in the little ways where you wouldn't plan for yourself to be surrounded by people

350
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,200
who get it.

351
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,360
And yet you guys stood up and helped get through that.

352
00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:54,880
And I know that's been the case with other situations, not just with pets.

353
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We've got family illnesses.

354
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,600
We've got illnesses ourselves.

355
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,080
So you're totally right, Cody.

356
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,920
It's become something that enables so much more.

357
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:13,220
And I do want to specifically share that Operation Uplift has as one of the projects that we've

358
00:23:13,220 --> 00:23:17,040
been trying to get off the ground forever.

359
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,040
And we've successfully got this off the ground.

360
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:20,840
If I can just pull it up here.

361
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:26,480
The Operation Uplift sub stack, which I highly recommend everybody go check out.

362
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:33,160
It's not as active as any of us would like it to be, but it's getting more active.

363
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,960
And have you guys contributed anything to this yet?

364
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,520
I have not had the pleasure yet.

365
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,440
Me neither.

366
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:51,360
This is a place where ideally we can have an outlet as a group where we can, of all

367
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:55,240
the people who could contribute, our perspectives are so varied that this could wind up being

368
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,520
a platform where you see more and more of, as Cody's saying, not necessarily agreeing

369
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:05,360
on everything, but understanding and sort of respecting or trusting the process by which

370
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:09,320
somebody arrives at their argument.

371
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:14,640
Which again, is sort of the premise of what we're here to discuss today is the overload

372
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:22,280
of information that we've seen just head on for the last several years.

373
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,320
It's been sort of nuts.

374
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:29,200
And I wonder if we could start, maybe Gabriel's the best to do this.

375
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:37,960
Could you in relatively simple terms, explain what a DDOS attack is in the context of computers,

376
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,680
the way you would usually use that term?

377
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:40,800
All right.

378
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:46,580
So a DDOS attack is a distributed denial of service attack.

379
00:24:46,580 --> 00:24:52,520
This means that there are many places being, whether they're computers or information sources

380
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:57,580
being used to basically clog up a particular information channel.

381
00:24:57,580 --> 00:24:59,160
That can be a website.

382
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,880
It can be your own home connection if you piss off the wrong people.

383
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:09,160
And the purpose of the distributed denial of service attack is that it's a relatively

384
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:14,780
easy way for somebody to constrain access to something, whether it's a website, whether

385
00:25:14,780 --> 00:25:23,360
it's content, whether it's somebody being able to access the internet across the board.

386
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:26,720
Now does that sound familiar to you guys?

387
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:31,940
Do you ever feel like you are that computer and somebody or something is just overloading

388
00:25:31,940 --> 00:25:33,840
your circuits?

389
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,920
Yeah.

390
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:41,280
So I actually have maybe a less accurate but slightly simpler way of explaining.

391
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:46,160
I was trying to explain to my wife this morning what the conversation was going to be about

392
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,240
and said, you know what happens when an old man tries to use an app on a computer and

393
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,760
they just click it and they click it and click it and click it and they're trying to use

394
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:57,480
this function and it causes the computer to freeze because they keep doing the thing.

395
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:03,940
A DDOS attack, a D DOS is essentially a whole bunch of computers trying to do a normal function

396
00:26:03,940 --> 00:26:09,400
of a website or web service all at the same time so that they function as the angry old

397
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,680
man clicking and clicking and clicking it and cause the system to just completely stop.

398
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,820
And they do that for a considerable amount of time and with enough bots or computers

399
00:26:18,820 --> 00:26:24,240
or hacked software so that it shuts down the service.

400
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:31,360
And what we see I think sometimes on accident and sometimes possibly on purpose we see that

401
00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:36,620
happen with our mental states where we are just inundated with a fire hose of information

402
00:26:36,620 --> 00:26:42,080
from a thousand, thousand sources and our brain will just shut down.

403
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,840
And you're right that it does happen to us.

404
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:51,440
I think there are times when because of the connection to the internet it's almost like

405
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:58,100
we have to guard ourselves to stop it from happening, to not let that happen to us, right?

406
00:26:58,100 --> 00:27:01,520
Because if we just put ourselves out there, we pull our walls down and put our brain into

407
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:06,560
the internet, then what ends up is all of the people who are actively excitedly talking

408
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,640
about a topic come into our brain and shut us down.

409
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:17,080
And this is possible to be manipulated such that you end up with somebody who's wanting

410
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,760
to shut people down, targeting people with a whole bunch of information, which I think

411
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:28,120
is more of an affair as a way, but we also have to consider the just what happens when

412
00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:30,320
you have so much communication.

413
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:36,480
Yeah, and you know, the way you put that is reminding me of the discussion that Gabriel

414
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:42,360
had with Matthew yesterday and the conclusion that was, I'm not sure if Gabriel, you and

415
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:48,320
Matthew both agreed exactly on this, but the idea that the solution is to basically stop

416
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:53,880
doing so much on the internet, like remove aspects of technology from our lives or from

417
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:59,400
society as a whole in order to better manage, you know, I think you were primarily talking

418
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:05,080
about privacy or the use of big data, but in the end, it's sort of the same beast that

419
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,720
the brain has to process.

420
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,760
What's your perspective on that?

421
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:15,040
Well, I do think anyone wanting to withdraw should do so intelligently, you know, like

422
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,920
there are experiences that you may still want to have, whether it's, you know, being on

423
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,340
certain websites.

424
00:28:21,340 --> 00:28:25,400
But as an example, when this fire hose of information opened up on the internet as the

425
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:32,080
chaos got started, I made a deliberate decision to kind of filter information sources.

426
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,620
I started out with a wide net, but basically I was testing, you know, oh, does this person

427
00:28:36,620 --> 00:28:40,920
seem to keep making sense over time or are they just, you know, trying to promote products

428
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:46,680
or you know, whatever, whatever associated incentives will align themselves over time.

429
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,080
And so, you know, one of the things that actually helped me a lot was Corbett did a Solutions

430
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:57,640
Watch episode on RSS feeds and RSS feeds are very powerful because basically instead of

431
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:03,040
an algorithm telling you what you can see, you can curate your own feed based off amalgamating

432
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:04,640
a bunch of different feeds.

433
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:10,460
So I had started using a service called Fresh RSS, but you can use any RSS reader you want.

434
00:29:10,460 --> 00:29:16,120
And I started collecting these RSS feeds and that became my main source of information

435
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:17,700
over time.

436
00:29:17,700 --> 00:29:20,400
And I would mostly go for that as a first check.

437
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,360
So instead of, you know, saying Facebook or deciding what I would see or Twitter deciding

438
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:29,080
what I would see, I made a conscious choice to use the software that exists and is widely

439
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:34,860
used to keep on associating with stuff I like.

440
00:29:34,860 --> 00:29:38,280
And that can create a bit of an echo chamber effect.

441
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:43,040
So you still want to, like I said, cast a wide net to not be like huddled into your

442
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,660
own little corner and not see what other people are talking about.

443
00:29:46,660 --> 00:29:51,560
But I find going to something that is low stimulation, as I would call it to start,

444
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:56,920
can really help keep, you know, emotional shields from either going up or distancing

445
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,280
yourself from particular topics.

446
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,420
When it comes to withdrawing from the internet as a whole, you know, it's really interesting

447
00:30:03,420 --> 00:30:09,120
because my other half has been watching this interesting video of kids playing Minecraft

448
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,640
together in this new adventure format.

449
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,800
It's based off some mod, I'm sure.

450
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,840
But the premise of the game is to get people who are both English speakers and Spanish

451
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,400
speakers to play the game together.

452
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,960
They have to do tasks in it.

453
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,960
And they have this really cool software that will translate what they say out loud into

454
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,960
the other language text above their head as a speech bubble.

455
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,080
This is an interaction you cannot have in real life.

456
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:41,480
Let's be real, at least not without a whole lot of extra stuff built on top of.

457
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,680
But you know, it's funny because it's such a, you know, innocent and beautiful experience.

458
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,200
But imagine how that could be applied in other areas.

459
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:53,680
I don't think the answer personally is to tell people, oh, to stay away from things

460
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:54,680
entirely.

461
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,400
I just think we need to make better choices about what we're doing and how we're doing

462
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,240
it.

463
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,000
That's a fantastic point.

464
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:07,840
And I want to circle back in a little bit to the solutions and also specifically the

465
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,280
risk of the echo chamber.

466
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:16,080
But before we do that, I'm curious, Diane, because you had mentioned the HPV vaccine,

467
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,120
which was an issue that you engaged 10 years ago.

468
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:24,440
Now we've come together in this interaction that, by the way, as well could not have happened

469
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:25,560
without the internet.

470
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,460
So another point for the internet.

471
00:31:28,460 --> 00:31:34,360
But we came together around this issue of COVID-19.

472
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:42,880
And while in large part the vaccine products that were rolled out and as such, a lot of

473
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,220
what we're familiar with right now is that issue.

474
00:31:46,220 --> 00:31:52,860
But I wonder if this similar fire hose of information or if I wonder with the experience

475
00:31:52,860 --> 00:31:58,640
processing information around the HPV vaccine as another example, how that compares to the

476
00:31:58,640 --> 00:31:59,680
time we're in now.

477
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,320
Can you speak to that?

478
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:09,920
Well, the HPV vaccine was just accepted like every other vaccine.

479
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,760
And it's this dirty little secret.

480
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:21,640
And I'll tell you what, from what I know now, I would not have vaccinated my children at

481
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,760
all for anything.

482
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,940
It is mind blowing.

483
00:32:26,940 --> 00:32:32,400
And it's available and it's out there and it's data and it's facts.

484
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:37,200
And it's just, oh my God, what have we done?

485
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:44,120
So on the HPV, that was just me being Diane going, you know, this sounds really crazy.

486
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:50,360
Also being from Texas, there was an additional public push.

487
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:59,240
The governor, Rick Perry, who was energy secretary under Trump as well, he decided that because

488
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:05,320
he met this gal, very young woman who ended up tragically dying from cervical cancer in

489
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:13,120
her twenties, and he met her and she said, please, please promote this vaccine.

490
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,480
Gardasil is one of the names, one of the brands.

491
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:24,400
And so he wanted to make it a state law that children get vaccinated with Gardasil.

492
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,020
And I just, oh, don't do that, baby.

493
00:33:27,020 --> 00:33:30,500
So my knee hit my chin and I started, I learned VAERS.

494
00:33:30,500 --> 00:33:35,480
I went to VAERS and I started reading all this stuff and then, you know, went to the

495
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,440
papers and learned how to do that all by myself.

496
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,120
There was no group.

497
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:48,560
And then when the country of Japan took it off their national schedule, you know, I thought,

498
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,800
you know, the country of Japan has a lot more experts than I have in my little head, so

499
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,920
I'm going to go with them.

500
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,280
And that's kind of how I made my decision.

501
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:04,920
But the familiarity with VAERS was kind of a leg up at the time when we first started

502
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:13,840
because we had a lovely medical doctor in the group at the time, call her Dr. M, and

503
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:21,360
she and I started really working on the VAERS stuff and identifying some early signals.

504
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:28,440
And since my middle name is jumping to conclusions, I think I'm batting a thousand on my conclusions

505
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:29,440
though, Cody.

506
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:30,440
I really do.

507
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:35,280
But, you know, she and I would really start looking at, you know, what's showing up as

508
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,000
far as adverse events from the COVID backs.

509
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:49,480
And then I found out that my county, Harris County, the public autopsies are public data,

510
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,240
literally identified detailed autopsy reports.

511
00:34:53,240 --> 00:34:59,320
And so we started pulling those and looking at those and really kind of went all different

512
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:07,760
directions trying to find some purchase to say, this is what's happening.

513
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,880
But it was pretty shotgun.

514
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,380
It was not rifle shot.

515
00:35:12,380 --> 00:35:14,360
We were just all over the place.

516
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:19,360
And it was like flavor of the week or of the day and what's interesting and what's going

517
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:20,360
on.

518
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:21,360
So.

519
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:22,360
Okay.

520
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,160
Well, I was all over the place on that non-answer.

521
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:27,600
No, no, no.

522
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,520
I think that's very informative.

523
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:37,700
Now, I am pleased to share that we've had somebody sneak in the back and I'm looking

524
00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:41,360
to see if he's going to give me a thumbs up or a thumbs down as to whether or not I should

525
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,080
bring him in, but I'm tempted to.

526
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,400
And I didn't even have to.

527
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,400
Hello, Matthew.

528
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:54,160
Hey, yeah, I wasn't like sneaking or lurking or anything like that, but I did want to jump

529
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:55,160
in at some point.

530
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:56,160
Hey, everyone.

531
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:57,840
Hey, Matthew.

532
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,240
Well, I don't know if you've caught the first bit of the show, but we've been having a lovely

533
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:08,080
time reminiscing and catching up on the origins of Operation Uplift, some of the early projects,

534
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,840
how we each got involved.

535
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:18,020
And we've now started to explore what it means to have the brain subject either intentionally

536
00:36:18,020 --> 00:36:22,080
or not to the equivalent of a DDOS attack.

537
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:27,680
So maybe there's a good opportunity to have you give your thoughts on the premise, because

538
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:32,040
this idea came about in a Zoom call we were having the other night.

539
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,840
And I believe this was this was your idea.

540
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:35,840
Am I right?

541
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:36,840
I think so.

542
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:44,760
I guess I do see us as being one of my early articles was, hey, we're beset by a fire

543
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,240
hose of information.

544
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:47,240
Right.

545
00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:53,360
We are constantly just inundated with information and that you know, this is I guess this is

546
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,960
what led me to, you know, to want to organize a group of people.

547
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,640
And I you know, it's funny, I had actually forgotten exactly how Operation Uplift started,

548
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,280
but maybe it did start when I had a call for an assistant.

549
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,760
But so many people I got maybe 50, 60 emails.

550
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:14,860
So many people reached out to contact me that I said, wow, you know, maybe I should just

551
00:37:14,860 --> 00:37:19,760
put people in a pool, you know, like, you know, what what could go wrong?

552
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:20,760
Right.

553
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:27,080
It occurred to me that people needed healthy community that was something like a bubble,

554
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:32,320
perhaps from the DDOS attack from the fire hose of information.

555
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:38,460
You know, it can make you feel crazy if all you have are corrupted information sources.

556
00:37:38,460 --> 00:37:40,040
So how do you do something else?

557
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,040
Well, you build your own community, you step away.

558
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:50,480
And I appreciated Cody saying that that we connected because he felt I was intellectually

559
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:51,480
honest.

560
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,600
And, you know, I do disagree and people disagree with me within the community.

561
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,880
And that's all fine.

562
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:02,100
And you know, we and we can continue to discuss topics to like I've changed my mind on a number

563
00:38:02,100 --> 00:38:03,100
of things during the pandemic.

564
00:38:03,100 --> 00:38:08,000
I just wrote an article last night where I said, you know what, I still don't know whether

565
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,520
some of the images we saw out of Wuhan from the very beginning are real.

566
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:12,520
Right.

567
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:13,520
I thought they were real.

568
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:14,900
Then I thought they were faked.

569
00:38:14,900 --> 00:38:19,040
And now I'm like, you know what, if there was something like a controlled pathogenic

570
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,680
release, then maybe some of them were actually real.

571
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:27,160
And yet, you know, you have to peel back layers of what could be going on.

572
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:32,480
But you don't want to commit too hard to a belief that that's at least partially what

573
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:38,020
separated people who wanted to join Operation Uplift, perhaps, at least for many of them

574
00:38:38,020 --> 00:38:45,200
is is they recognize something wrong and perhaps that something wrong is the need for you to

575
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,200
commit to a belief.

576
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:48,200
Right.

577
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:53,560
And I think that that even within the and I think that there's corruption all over the

578
00:38:53,560 --> 00:39:00,840
medical freedom resistance and that we see in various groups a a purification tests,

579
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,280
purity tests where people need to commit to to belief.

580
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,000
And that's something that bothers me.

581
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:13,960
But you know what, just just to make the point, I'm going to share an email that came to me.

582
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,240
I think this is this is really important for everybody to see.

583
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:25,440
I started collecting these because I had so many of them sent to me.

584
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:31,760
But this is an email just sent to me the other day.

585
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:39,920
I think that what Operation Uplift is so threatens people who put themselves in in positions

586
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:48,680
within the medical freedom movement to I think to be part of the grand show.

587
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,920
Do you want to read this out for those who'd be listening just says, hey, Matthew, don't

588
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,440
know if this will help or not, but just started listening to your video on the above only

589
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,320
10 minutes through in the month.

590
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,520
I've got some information redacted.

591
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:06,160
I had a few people both MFM that's medical freedom movement and alt MFM reach out uninvited

592
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,080
and said I should be wary of you.

593
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:12,280
I told them politely to go bleep themselves as I think for myself, enjoy the chat and

594
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,000
think I can make it my own mind about people.

595
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,880
I keep all purse cons confidential.

596
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,160
So don't mean to tease as I won't name names, but I think it was you who is being targeted,

597
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:22,160
not me.

598
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,000
At least that's how it felt to me.

599
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,680
Yeah.

600
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:33,240
Well, I think and in general, like what I would say is, you know, somebody has like

601
00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:37,360
a critique, you know, like Cody said, we've been able to disagree.

602
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:38,360
Right.

603
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:44,560
If somebody has a critique on an idea that we're discussing, you know, it can be discussed

604
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:45,560
and that's fine.

605
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:46,960
That's what people should bring out.

606
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:52,920
But what we have is, I think, a very controlled ecosystem of resistance that is part of the

607
00:40:52,920 --> 00:41:00,360
DDS attack where people establish nodes and and and I think it was, you know, it was likely

608
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:01,360
prearranged.

609
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:02,360
Right.

610
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:06,760
If you have something as big as what has gone on, a program to mass vaccinate.

611
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,760
And of course, we have more and more information about forced vaccination.

612
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,400
That was even part of my article last night, the identification of a woman from Australia

613
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:21,400
at the World Vaccine Congress who who told people, no, do not communicate with people

614
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:27,880
who do not already agree with with our message here that everyone should be forcibly mandated

615
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:32,920
to be vaccinated or discuss safety and efficacy at all.

616
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,080
They don't have the conversation stand in the way of it.

617
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:44,120
So I think that we should absolutely expect for there also to be nodes, you know, planned

618
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,360
with within resistance to that.

619
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:52,840
And this is why people should be forming their own nodes and whether it's Operation Uplift

620
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,320
or some other node, you know, reach out and find community and build a new node.

621
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,200
We need new nodes.

622
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,960
One of the most important aspects to me is the ability to disagree because I couldn't

623
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:05,960
be in Operation Uplift.

624
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,840
I wouldn't have been able to be in it if there weren't people with whom I could disagree

625
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,960
because as soon as somebody says this is a forced belief, you have to believe it.

626
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,240
That's I'm out, which is how I got here to begin with.

627
00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:23,420
I think that's how I'm not in the mainstream because as soon as you force me to say, yes,

628
00:42:23,420 --> 00:42:25,800
this is true, no, this is not true.

629
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,120
Like, sorry, hands off, I'm done.

630
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:29,640
And so I think it's important.

631
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,200
I think other people could probably use that same heuristic, right?

632
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,740
Somebody says this is the case.

633
00:42:35,740 --> 00:42:38,160
People here, we don't like those people over there.

634
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,200
And if you like those people over there, you can't be part of our group.

635
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:42,200
You're out.

636
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:43,200
Like you're just out.

637
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,120
Like you should you should say thank you very much.

638
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,480
Just like the person who wrote to Matthew did, thank you very much.

639
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:48,840
I can make up my own mind.

640
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:56,320
I guess and it is it is isolating, which is why Matthew's idea of nodes, whether they're

641
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,800
part of our group or not, is so valuable.

642
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:04,960
You have to find the community that you can disagree with but still be a part of.

643
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:13,240
And a big part of that is because like I don't know what the normal ratio in someone's life

644
00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:17,240
of being right versus wrong about a given thing is.

645
00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:21,800
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that if you were to really dumb it down, you'd find

646
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:27,040
that 75 percent of the time on a given thing, you're wrong and 25 percent of the time you're

647
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:28,040
right.

648
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,680
And then ideally that, I guess, expands over time to being more correct about stuff.

649
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,480
But then that's still the wrong question.

650
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,800
Like what does it mean to be right about something or wrong about something?

651
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,320
Isn't it more about the process?

652
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:46,520
And I also have had my mind flip back and forth on a number of issues.

653
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:54,240
And I think without the ability, without the recognition of the necessity of doing that

654
00:43:54,240 --> 00:44:04,760
as the information and as the as everything changes in favor of a new reality, if you

655
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:11,560
get stuck, if you dig your heels into something, then it becomes religion, not information,

656
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,320
I suppose.

657
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:18,120
And so I echo that's what's been very valuable is being able to have sometimes very heated

658
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:25,800
disagreements that then wind up being rooted in a fundamental respect, even if the person

659
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,040
really ticks you off on a given day.

660
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:34,160
I think if we can't engage in that as a group, as one on one or as a society, that's where

661
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,200
we're going to continue to fail.

662
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:40,360
And so that's why this group has been fantastic.

663
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,760
If I could jump in there, every principle has its boundaries.

664
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,880
Right?

665
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:54,000
Is it an unreasonable ideological purity test to keep people out who who believe that the

666
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,000
best thing to do is just extinguish all of humanity?

667
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:58,000
Right.

668
00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:59,000
I see.

669
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:00,000
Right.

670
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,880
There are there are obviously going to be boundaries to a community.

671
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:03,880
Most of them are natural.

672
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,800
I think of them kind of like I think of natural law.

673
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:07,800
Right.

674
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:13,000
If your boundaries for running a community are basically the same thing as natural law,

675
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:14,000
then you're going to be fine.

676
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,000
OK.

677
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,360
You know, at some point there may be reasons to test those boundaries.

678
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,160
But you know, not really.

679
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,200
Not for a note of, you know, one hundred something people.

680
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:24,440
Right.

681
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:29,800
So you know, don't don't worry about like people shouldn't worry about if they're forming

682
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:30,800
community.

683
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,040
Don't worry about the edge cases now.

684
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:38,720
You know, find groups of people that you can work with and and don't don't let some parasocial

685
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:42,080
relationship dictate what you're going to work on.

686
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:43,080
Yeah.

687
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,040
Excuse me.

688
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:50,240
I'm curious about hearing examples about things that have that people have flip flopped on.

689
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:58,480
And just to give an example, I so there's this as of yet unresolved issue as far as

690
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,080
I'm concerned about this whole this whole.

691
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:06,520
And it sounds crazy even to say and that's partially why I'm going to use it as an example.

692
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:13,180
This whole magnets situation where there was this period of time where that was all the

693
00:46:13,180 --> 00:46:19,680
rage on the alternative video platforms and I'm sure Tiktok and others of people sticking

694
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:21,280
magnets to themselves.

695
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:28,900
And the premise was that it was because they had just received a covid shot and it was

696
00:46:28,900 --> 00:46:35,380
equally trashed and ridiculed in mainstream sources.

697
00:46:35,380 --> 00:46:39,200
And then it sort of doesn't get talked about anymore.

698
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:47,000
But I'm going to go ahead and say I definitely myself experienced that magnetic phenomenon

699
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:52,720
very specifically on the place where I would if I had chosen to receive a covid shot, it

700
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:54,920
would have been where I got it.

701
00:46:54,920 --> 00:47:00,240
And so it's an interesting unresolved phenomenon for me, but it's not just me.

702
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:06,560
There are very credible people who at the time were looking at it and going, I've also

703
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:08,120
I'll give you an example.

704
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:16,560
Tess Lori, who I find to be largely credible, said she had witnessed firsthand this phenomenon

705
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,080
as well and had no explanation for it and simply wanted an explanation.

706
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:25,240
Can you clarify what you mean when you say that you were so let's say you are you saying

707
00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:27,440
that you took a magnet and put it on your arm?

708
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,440
You did not get a shot, but you put a magnet on your arm where you would have gotten a

709
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:31,440
shot.

710
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,040
Yeah, stuck.

711
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:38,520
It stuck in a way and over a long enough period of time, like I replicated the experiment,

712
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:45,200
so to speak, enough times where it appeared as though that's what was happening.

713
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:50,280
But you would be a control case because you didn't.

714
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:51,280
Right.

715
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:52,280
It should be independent of.

716
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:56,240
Well, he would be a case for some variables.

717
00:47:56,240 --> 00:48:03,000
And we still we still don't know exactly what the possibility of shedding might mean.

718
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:04,000
Right.

719
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:11,080
Or, for example, because I, Diane, received one dose of Gardasil, for example.

720
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:15,160
That's I'm not saying it was that I'm saying that's another thing that others have have

721
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:20,360
suggested is perhaps it's not specific to this shot.

722
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:28,080
So that's sort of the idea of we maybe are so overwhelmed with information that the second

723
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:32,120
applause something comes up and then the first plausible explanation that comes in is the

724
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:33,440
one we stick to.

725
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:38,560
But that doesn't actually mean that it is attributable to the thing.

726
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,460
But my point is it started as being a crazy thing.

727
00:48:42,460 --> 00:48:43,460
Then I dismissed it.

728
00:48:43,460 --> 00:48:45,520
Then I experienced it myself.

729
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,520
And I've sort of flip flopped on on what that actually means.

730
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,040
But that's just one example.

731
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,080
I'm curious if there's anything that's come.

732
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:59,440
Oh, well, and the related graphene oxide question started as being this like, is this something

733
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,000
worth even thinking about?

734
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:05,800
I remember people at the time in our clubhouse groups dismissing it as, you know, oh, we

735
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,880
don't want to touch conspiracy theories when it hadn't even really been articulated as

736
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:10,880
one.

737
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:12,880
And then it went away as completely nonsense.

738
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:14,440
Now it's coming back as well.

739
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:19,600
No, graphene oxide is part of the equation, but it doesn't mean it's the part of the equation

740
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,800
that everyone else has been discussing.

741
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,440
And is it relevant at all?

742
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:29,080
What are some examples that you guys have experienced on things where you've you've

743
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,440
changed your mind?

744
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:33,440
I'll jump in.

745
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,120
Would somebody else like to answer?

746
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,120
What are the really contentious ones?

747
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,240
Because I don't come from really a medicine background at all.

748
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:45,240
You know, my biology knowledge is not very solid.

749
00:49:45,240 --> 00:49:48,840
And so I saw a lot of people making noise about Tarrin theory.

750
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,360
You know, they were basically saying things along the lines of all Louis past there is

751
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:56,440
a fraud and, you know, here's why viruses aren't actually real.

752
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,160
And that was something I seriously entertain.

753
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:03,720
I can I can definitely admit I'm like, OK, what is the deal here as far as I was trying

754
00:50:03,720 --> 00:50:04,880
to understand it?

755
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,940
And I'm lucky that my other half is fairly rounded in biology.

756
00:50:08,940 --> 00:50:12,600
So she was able to answer a lot of my questions about some of this.

757
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:17,360
But I was entertaining it enough to really upset her over this.

758
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:23,640
And the thing that really where I really settled on at the end of that process was that I realized

759
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:29,120
that the problem is not actually viruses themselves as much as like the way they kind of talk

760
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:30,440
people into it.

761
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,520
But there are a lot of things about health that honestly someone like myself who doesn't

762
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,720
know much about biology are absolutely wrong about.

763
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:39,600
We don't have a clue what health actually looks like.

764
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:45,360
I mean, I'm a pretty heavy guy because I did not prioritize wealth or health well enough

765
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,000
because of that.

766
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,600
And I do think there are a lot of things, you know, things like sunshine, you know,

767
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,540
nutrition and any exercise is a big one.

768
00:50:53,540 --> 00:50:58,900
Anything you can do to be healthier will absolutely change your outcomes on honestly all kinds

769
00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:00,720
of aspects of life.

770
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:02,680
And yeah, that'll have an effect.

771
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:07,480
So to me, it was an interesting way of looking into, OK, this is something that people won't

772
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:08,680
even discuss.

773
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:10,400
But I was really digging into it.

774
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:14,400
I'm like, OK, what's what's missing here was what I was trying to understand.

775
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:20,240
And I do think it is kind of like a crowbar almost because whoever's, you know, originating

776
00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:24,040
where this is coming from, they know most people don't think about this stuff in any

777
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:25,040
level of depth.

778
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:29,460
And that was what it revealed to me how little I knew about all of it.

779
00:51:29,460 --> 00:51:35,580
Not only that, but I think that there are a lot of there are a lot of lies sort of within

780
00:51:35,580 --> 00:51:40,440
the literature and embedded within the literature or like like weird mistruths even.

781
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:41,440
Right.

782
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:46,600
Like the my wife who studies viruses, like the way that she might identify viruses is

783
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,440
not the way that it's taught in a textbook.

784
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:50,440
Right.

785
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:55,000
Like when people hear things like, you know, some particular methodology or some particular

786
00:51:55,000 --> 00:52:00,960
test, oh, gosh, what's the one that that that is often?

787
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,920
Oh, goodness, I'm forgetting the name of it now.

788
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:09,560
But there are some people who are like, oh, like Koch's postulates or something like that.

789
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:10,560
Right.

790
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:14,720
You know, people might have like one particular test that has nothing to do with the way that

791
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:17,600
it's actually done in a laboratory.

792
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:22,000
And they say, well, you know, this definition here, that definition here, and they'll point

793
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,240
to like three textbooks and the definitions will be different.

794
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:25,240
And you know what?

795
00:52:25,240 --> 00:52:26,240
That's fine.

796
00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:31,520
You know, that that the textbooks are not consistent doesn't mean that there isn't a

797
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:36,200
definition or doesn't mean that there's not a process.

798
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:43,560
But yeah, this this made me think of an idea right now, which is that that I think that

799
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:49,120
these types of events allow for us to be studied.

800
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:50,320
Right.

801
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,800
And I think that that's actually one of the things that we should think about and try

802
00:52:53,800 --> 00:53:02,800
to like if if you are forming into groups that can be commoditized either because of

803
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:08,400
a personality that you're following or like a like a parasocial relationship that can

804
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:12,160
be designed to steer you one step at a time.

805
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:13,160
And I have several in mind.

806
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:19,420
I'm not going to say them out loud, but or that you can have a belief tested and then

807
00:53:19,420 --> 00:53:24,840
you can be that that people can be farmed into two groups and then those two groups

808
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:30,440
can be sort of you know, media can be aimed at them.

809
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:35,480
And I do think that there is establishment of sort of alt media empire that seems to

810
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,000
be going after those people.

811
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,520
And some of that may be for various purposes.

812
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:42,880
Some of it may just be for business models.

813
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:48,880
And yet the business models can themselves drive feedback loops that corrupt the pool

814
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:53,760
of people in the same way that everything felt corrupted before we reached out to form

815
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:54,760
new nodes.

816
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,640
So I mean, John, did I say any of that clearly enough?

817
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:04,960
I want to jump in on that because for let's just say for this audience, probably most

818
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,200
people would hear that and not really recoil.

819
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:13,680
But for a wider audience, people would hear like, oh, the pandemic, we formed groups and

820
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:14,960
it allows us to be studied.

821
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,640
And perhaps somebody could say, well, that seems kind of conspiratorial.

822
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:22,800
You know, that seems a little maybe that's too far.

823
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:26,000
There are research papers that are written and published online.

824
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:31,560
You can go and check them out where they are literally using the pandemic to study how

825
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:36,200
people respond to different forms of propaganda, persuasion.

826
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:42,400
I mean, these real out there, it's funded by the government and it's not just like,

827
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:43,960
you know, a patent from 60 years ago.

828
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,960
This is stuff that's been published right now in response to the pandemic.

829
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:48,960
And it was very fast.

830
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:50,540
It's not only papers.

831
00:54:50,540 --> 00:54:54,680
We have entire governmental organizations that have developed process.

832
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:55,680
Right.

833
00:54:55,680 --> 00:55:02,400
The book, the nudge that was written by Thaler and Sunstein, the the UK government created

834
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:06,600
a nudge unit that was embedded within its intelligence agencies.

835
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:10,440
It was a new agency within the intelligence infrastructure of the UK.

836
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:17,920
It was then spun off into a corporation or I don't know if corporations the right word,

837
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:22,600
but some sort of like an entity organization that then contracts with other governments

838
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:26,760
and intelligence agencies and corporations around the world to do that work.

839
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:27,760
Right.

840
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:32,520
Kind of psychological testing follows very easily from like the A B testing that's done

841
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:33,760
in computer science.

842
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:34,760
Right.

843
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,480
So this kind of stuff, I mean, it's very, very straightforward.

844
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:43,040
How are the kids to to the psychological testing on groups of people?

845
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,160
And we are in the age of Cambridge Analytica.

846
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:46,160
Right.

847
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:47,160
Cambridge Analytica happened.

848
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:49,760
You know, the Brexit vote happened.

849
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:55,120
And you know, whether or not we know the entire public story on that, we cannot at this point

850
00:55:55,120 --> 00:56:05,120
say that anything like intended mass manipulation, even to a refined and granulated degree, is

851
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:06,120
not happening.

852
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:07,120
It absolutely is.

853
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:12,760
So I think that people should be very considerate of, you know, step forward, be a leader,

854
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:17,560
form your own group, and these things may be malleable, but you're going to wind up

855
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:21,760
with a healthier ecosystem and a healthier situation that way.

856
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,400
Can I can I just poke on the Cambridge Analytica thing?

857
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:33,160
Because I've always heard about it and never known the story other than Steve Bannon worked

858
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:34,400
at Cambridge Analytica.

859
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:39,040
And I bring that up because he's been someone I recently looked at in some of this same

860
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:40,040
context.

861
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,800
Can you just give a quick overview of what that what what was the Cambridge Analytica

862
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,400
situation?

863
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,360
I don't know if I can tell the story like from A to Z.

864
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:58,960
But somebody decided that they were going to I guess somebody who was who was politically

865
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:05,560
involved decided that they were going to hire an analytics firm to do the job.

866
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:08,860
And yeah, that's basically what it comes down to.

867
00:57:08,860 --> 00:57:13,120
And then, you know, I guess they knew somebody and they had confidence in them and they brought

868
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:14,120
them in.

869
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:17,200
And suddenly you had a team that started growing and it became like the mission.

870
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:21,800
It was like it was like that was the way they were really focusing the entire operation

871
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:23,760
on the Brexit vote.

872
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:24,760
Interesting.

873
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:25,760
Yeah.

874
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:31,020
Well, and you know, this A B testing that Cody, you just brought up, it's interesting

875
00:57:31,020 --> 00:57:37,560
because one way you would do that is by, let's say, controlling two telegram groups and separating

876
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:40,440
people based on a factor.

877
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,480
Just hypothetically, Operation Uplift could be one of them.

878
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:45,480
I don't think it is.

879
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,880
But you would separate people based on one difference and then test different messaging

880
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,560
and then see how they react.

881
00:57:53,560 --> 00:58:00,680
And I guess it's the reason why people might have trouble not reacting immediately is that's

882
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:02,320
conspiracy theory.

883
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:04,600
I think people don't have a mental map for that.

884
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:10,120
This has never been something that we've had to consider for real goes on in our lives,

885
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,440
except we know that it does because that's what Facebook is.

886
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:18,120
And that predates like that knowledge and understanding predates COVID.

887
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:24,200
So we can simultaneously not have a mental map for knowing or for being able to process

888
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:31,840
that we might be all of us by default subjects in a social experiment and simultaneously

889
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:38,960
understand that the NSA and Facebook and Google are doing exactly that to us all the time.

890
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:42,200
How can we have two conflicting thoughts as people?

891
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:43,200
And not be able to...

892
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:47,880
It's very strange because people don't seem to account for how much permission they give

893
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,280
for other places to use their data.

894
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:55,760
So beyond anything else, we've been doing this for decades where you just hit yes to

895
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:57,880
the terms of service for anything you sign up for.

896
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:01,680
And then as you continue to sign up for things, you don't realize, it's like, oh, well, the

897
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:03,120
data can't be traced back to you.

898
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:05,280
Well, maybe it can, maybe it can't.

899
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:13,280
But what you end up with is a whole bunch of companies learning how to improve or target

900
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:17,640
their products based off of what you would like and dislike and say and don't say in

901
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:19,000
places you visit.

902
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:25,220
And so this kind of thing is, I mean, it really is, can act as one of the bases for what we're

903
00:59:25,220 --> 00:59:27,720
seeing now on a different scale.

904
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:33,880
Because if you continue to reward companies for targeting you and for manipulation of

905
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,840
you, then they're going to find better and new exciting ways to target and manipulate

906
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:39,320
you.

907
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:44,680
I think that also what people underestimate is the degree to which their choices can be

908
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:45,680
steered.

909
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:46,680
Yes.

910
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:47,680
Right?

911
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:51,620
Like I think that to actually follow the process of a nudge unit, it would be fascinating if

912
00:59:51,620 --> 00:59:53,200
somebody were to put together a documentary.

913
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:54,640
In fact, we really need that.

914
00:59:54,640 --> 01:00:00,100
We need somebody to make an educational documentary that walks through such an operation.

915
01:00:00,100 --> 01:00:02,360
And I don't know who might have footage of that or something.

916
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:07,920
But I think most people don't know how much their thoughts are steered at this point.

917
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,120
And they don't know all the techniques.

918
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:14,800
I think they don't know how powerful ash conformity experiments have become.

919
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:15,800
Right?

920
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,160
People think they know that experiment well.

921
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:23,120
But really and truly, there are different reasons why people wound up making the wrong

922
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:28,520
choice and how frequently they made the wrong choice according to the setup in the room.

923
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,040
How many confidants are there?

924
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:31,800
How many false confidants are there?

925
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:34,260
How those confidants are dressed?

926
01:00:34,260 --> 01:00:36,760
What is your perception of those confidants?

927
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:37,760
Right?

928
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,480
People don't know how well they can be steered and manipulated.

929
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:45,880
Well, I think a big part of it, though, is that regular people are kind of robbed for

930
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:46,880
time.

931
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:50,880
If you're dealing with all these pressures from all these different areas, whether it's

932
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:58,800
your career, whether it's the chaos of inflation ramping up and political instability and polarization,

933
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:04,300
from almost every direction, this is, in my opinion, what really drives the DDoS effect

934
01:01:04,300 --> 01:01:08,440
on people's minds is that they have a very small amount of time to really parse through

935
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:09,640
these issues.

936
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:13,920
And so this is where what's funny is that some of the more extremely online people who

937
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:18,060
have a lot of time on their hands will be able to parse through these issues.

938
01:01:18,060 --> 01:01:23,080
But good luck communicating it to somebody who doesn't have the time to even get to

939
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,880
where that person is at.

940
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:30,180
And so if that wasn't bad enough, you've got this huge time barrier.

941
01:01:30,180 --> 01:01:35,480
And then you have the emotional barrier, where as far as I can tell, fear, stress, anger,

942
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:40,680
all the things that have been really ramped up as things get crazier are things that will

943
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:45,760
reduce your capacity to think about anything in any kind of depth, seriousness, or even

944
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:47,940
curiosity.

945
01:01:47,940 --> 01:01:51,600
And I think of that like a flock of birds effect.

946
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:58,000
I think people very often underestimate how mimetic we all are.

947
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,620
Think about to your days in school.

948
01:02:00,620 --> 01:02:05,200
When we were all school children, the vast majority of the time, when we didn't know

949
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:11,600
what we should be doing, we looked around and followed a line or a crowd.

950
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:13,920
And I don't even just mean that physically.

951
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:18,580
I mean, what should I be doing with myself?

952
01:02:18,580 --> 01:02:22,240
How should I be handling a certain assignment?

953
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:26,560
I was exactly one of those students who would sometimes get lost in thoughts.

954
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:29,080
Instructions would be given out, and then I would look around.

955
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:30,440
And I'm just one personality type.

956
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:32,700
I'm sure it happens a little bit differently for everybody.

957
01:02:32,700 --> 01:02:36,560
But just in order to figure out how should I be on task, I might look around the room

958
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:40,600
and then look at the board and see a set of instructions and put two and two together

959
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:43,040
and figure out what was going on.

960
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:47,700
Not always, but just if I lost myself in thoughts.

961
01:02:47,700 --> 01:02:50,080
People are very mimetic and for a lot of different reasons.

962
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:51,960
It is economic.

963
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:56,880
Just like Gabe said, you don't have time to figure everything out.

964
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:05,200
Going with crowds is an ordinary evolutionarily obvious strategy for a species, especially

965
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,800
one as complex as we are.

966
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:12,160
I would double down on it because I think that's part of the social fabric.

967
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:18,000
There is this assumption that the people in positions of power are doing it responsibly,

968
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:22,440
are doing it with the tribe's goals in mind.

969
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:28,960
And so when you have this betrayal, I've heard a lot of people say, oh, X institution can't

970
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,760
be corrupt because that would mean we can't trust anything.

971
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:36,000
And I've myself come back with, yes, you can't trust anything.

972
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,280
That's so hard.

973
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:43,360
Well anything from such centralized nodes, right?

974
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:47,360
There is a lot that we can trust if we just organize it differently, but it is an economics

975
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:48,360
problem.

976
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:55,960
Now, I want to move to a slightly different perspective.

977
01:03:55,960 --> 01:04:05,880
An example, I want to talk about busy work because I have, for example, for years been

978
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:11,720
incapable of managing the constant input, not strictly of new information as we've been

979
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:17,940
discussing, but new communications, which themselves you could call information.

980
01:04:17,940 --> 01:04:24,560
What I mean is with the full array of social media apps, you've got your Facebook, your

981
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:30,120
Instagram, your Twitter, your YouTube comments, your, gosh, I don't know, your Snapchats,

982
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:33,840
your text messages, your emails.

983
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:41,680
And no clear method that I've been able to develop or that I've had anyone else be able

984
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:46,240
to explain to me for how to manage all of it.

985
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:53,040
Not of course being on its own, the important thing, managing it alongside just living your

986
01:04:53,040 --> 01:05:01,580
daily life, not attached to a computer, also managing it in balance with important work

987
01:05:01,580 --> 01:05:04,360
that needs to be done.

988
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:10,240
And I wonder if others have considered the possibility, in fact, Matthew, I think you've

989
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:17,320
discussed it before, the idea that people can use just little distractions, like little

990
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:21,560
calls for your attention to derail you.

991
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:24,840
And so that's assuming it as a tool.

992
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:30,940
But even in the absence of the use of distraction or busy work or small tasks or whatever as

993
01:05:30,940 --> 01:05:37,360
weapons, I think it's just another inherent challenge we probably all face just trying

994
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:43,080
to figure out in the era of instant communication and in the era of piling up communication.

995
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:46,420
You're no longer just answering phone calls as they come in that you can then maybe return

996
01:05:46,420 --> 01:05:47,420
if you miss it.

997
01:05:47,420 --> 01:05:52,020
It's now you've got a thousand little red dots in your inbox.

998
01:05:52,020 --> 01:05:54,200
What do you do with that?

999
01:05:54,200 --> 01:06:00,920
Now Diane, as a mom, you're probably the most inherently busy just as your base job description.

1000
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:11,240
And so you're probably best qualified to help shed some light on how you manage the duties

1001
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:17,360
of being a mother and everything else you live with in daily life and also engaging

1002
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:24,760
in such a constant stream of people reaching out to you, I assume.

1003
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:35,400
Sorry, I've got a whole houseload of contractors and it's sort of like everyone is four years

1004
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:40,960
old and I was on the phone when my kids were four and I would look down and say, do you

1005
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:43,560
not see this phone in my ear?

1006
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:46,160
And here I am talking to my computer.

1007
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:52,600
And do you not see Diane, Deanna, mommy talking to the computer?

1008
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:58,080
Yes, I'm involved in something, but hey.

1009
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:00,920
So my daughters are grown up.

1010
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:03,080
The littlest one is now 21.

1011
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:08,280
So they're early 20s plus a 40 something stepson.

1012
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:16,160
And I think so we get Slack messages, we get text messages, we get emails, and then we're

1013
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:21,000
on all these chats on Telegram and Signal.

1014
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:27,320
And my biggest challenge, well, let me just say this, I used to have a very seven days

1015
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:28,400
a week.

1016
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:29,680
I get up really early.

1017
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:31,360
I go to bed really early.

1018
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:34,080
I mean, I get up like at four or 30 or five.

1019
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:38,800
So I'm not around as you know past eight o'clock usually.

1020
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:44,520
Plus being in real estate, I learned I had to turn off all the screens early before I

1021
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:50,520
just lost my mind because I feel a need to respond, which I had to get over.

1022
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:56,440
But I think for me, just managing it, the biggest problem for me is the source of what

1023
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:57,440
I saw.

1024
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:01,920
And you're going, oh God, somebody asked me a question or somebody sent me something.

1025
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:05,600
Was it on that Slack channel or was it on Signal or Telegram?

1026
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:09,600
And it gets very frustrating to source it.

1027
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:10,720
That's one thing.

1028
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:14,040
And then the text thing really irritates me.

1029
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:18,160
To me, that's an urgent personal channel.

1030
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:23,120
My children text me when they're in trouble, which is why I've been on my phone for the

1031
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:27,840
last 20 minutes because the car insurance payment didn't make it because they got canceled

1032
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:31,320
by the real insurance company, both of them simultaneously.

1033
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:33,160
Oh yeah.

1034
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:34,160
Yeah.

1035
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:41,560
Anyway, one speeds and one gets in unilateral wrecks with herself or parking lot structures.

1036
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:44,200
Anyway, so yeah.

1037
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:47,560
So I think it's just way too many sources.

1038
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:52,880
So I used to get up very early in the morning and I would go through a process where I would

1039
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:57,360
go through the Operation Uplift channel, that's always my first priority, and catch up with

1040
01:08:57,360 --> 01:08:59,020
those messages.

1041
01:08:59,020 --> 01:09:04,980
And then I would hit my email and I literally, I'm pretty OCD, I admit it, but I would just

1042
01:09:04,980 --> 01:09:10,480
go through this, you know, all this tap tap kind of OCD stuff and go through it all just

1043
01:09:10,480 --> 01:09:12,340
to keep myself sane.

1044
01:09:12,340 --> 01:09:15,640
So I could say, okay, I'm caught up.

1045
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:18,240
And now I can switch to iced tea from coffee.

1046
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:20,760
That means I'm caught up.

1047
01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:28,160
It took a while, but I did that every day of the week for 18 months, 18 months easily.

1048
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:31,680
And you know, I managed myself with all this stuff.

1049
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:33,160
Yeah, go ahead.

1050
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:34,160
Yeah.

1051
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:37,160
Well, because what wouldn't that take?

1052
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:40,040
To me, that sounds like it would probably take hours.

1053
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:44,600
Like how long do you realistically need to set aside as a part of your routine to do

1054
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:45,600
that?

1055
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:51,240
Well, one thing I have, which is a blessing, I have a couple of things going for me.

1056
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:56,200
I read really fast, I synthesize really fast, and I've got a semi-photographic memory.

1057
01:09:56,200 --> 01:10:00,200
Actually, I've killed so many brain cells, that's probably mostly gone.

1058
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:06,480
But I literally can remember things from where they were on the page, if you will.

1059
01:10:06,480 --> 01:10:10,520
And so everybody says, how do you find things?

1060
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:11,520
How do you use bookmarks?

1061
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:13,160
And I said, I never could use bookmarks.

1062
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:14,160
I'm horrible.

1063
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:15,160
And I always get them messed up.

1064
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:17,600
And so I have everything under recipes.

1065
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:21,640
So I just gave up on that.

1066
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:23,720
But I just read really fast.

1067
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:26,280
I'm so jealous of that.

1068
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:27,440
I'm so jealous of that.

1069
01:10:27,440 --> 01:10:29,040
Oh, I know you are, man.

1070
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:33,720
I can't imagine being dyslexic in this business.

1071
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:37,000
So I also, I'm a good skimmer.

1072
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:41,560
And so I can go through, if it's fairly, something's fairly well written, you know, I can look

1073
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:46,440
at the topic and the summation and see if it's worth reading.

1074
01:10:46,440 --> 01:10:50,040
You know, and I'll favorite something, you know, to come back to or something.

1075
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:52,920
That's pretty much how I go about it.

1076
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:55,600
It sounds so clean and concise.

1077
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:56,600
It's not.

1078
01:10:56,600 --> 01:10:57,600
I know.

1079
01:10:57,600 --> 01:10:59,060
It can't be.

1080
01:10:59,060 --> 01:11:03,440
But you make it, you present a framework for something I suppose I could at least try.

1081
01:11:03,440 --> 01:11:04,760
And it's fairly straightforward.

1082
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:08,160
But again, it never works out that cleanly, right?

1083
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:15,200
Well, yeah, and part of the raising kids thing for a control freak, it was very difficult

1084
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:16,640
because you have none.

1085
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:22,400
And so you find these areas where you can establish control like your, you know, like

1086
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:23,400
your COVID information.

1087
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:26,840
That was a lot easier than children.

1088
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:28,640
OK, what about you, Cody?

1089
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:32,040
How do you manage that same problem?

1090
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:35,280
Oh, sorry.

1091
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:43,240
The problem of the attempted DDoS attack or the flood of information.

1092
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:48,880
Well, yeah, but in the realm of like productivity, keeping up to date with your communications

1093
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:53,840
and then how you balance that with the time you spend, whatever your work is, whatever

1094
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:58,520
you consider the work, you know, and of course, just living your life.

1095
01:11:58,520 --> 01:11:59,520
Right.

1096
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:04,640
Well, I'm not sure that I have anything to teach anybody with that.

1097
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:13,400
I struggle as much as anyone else, especially with, you know, my if it doesn't catch me,

1098
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:15,440
my attention span is very poor.

1099
01:12:15,440 --> 01:12:19,280
And so the things that I'm interested in, I can hyper focus, I can read through the

1100
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:24,680
paper, I can, you know, analyze the information, as long as it's something that I wanted I

1101
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:25,680
want to do.

1102
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:28,280
And then when it's not, it's like holding onto soap.

1103
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:30,160
It's absolutely atrocious.

1104
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:34,800
And so, yeah, I don't have any answer to give.

1105
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:36,640
I mostly will.

1106
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:39,920
So this is going to touch on something that I think you wanted to get to, but what Gabe

1107
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:49,440
said, I mostly withdraw from sources that are not at least giving me something.

1108
01:12:49,440 --> 01:12:55,200
So if it's, so there are sources, I mean, you can play games or watch something, entertainment

1109
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:57,420
for relaxation purposes.

1110
01:12:57,420 --> 01:13:05,200
But if you're thinking about information source, then, you know, I only follow on my Twitter

1111
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:07,600
only follow a couple of hundred people.

1112
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:09,440
And that's probably too many.

1113
01:13:09,440 --> 01:13:11,600
And I don't spend all that much time on there.

1114
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:20,080
You know, I watch, you know, a few different news, podcasts or sources like that from across

1115
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:27,160
the spectrum, some conservative, some left it some center, you know, I have OU, but I

1116
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:32,280
really am more or less unplugged from things.

1117
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:41,680
Like, because I just, you know, everybody has the loss when you change from one topic

1118
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:47,640
to the other, when you get a text, when you are suddenly interrupted, everybody pays the

1119
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:49,640
cost for that, right?

1120
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,480
But I find that for me, it's very, very difficult.

1121
01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:54,560
Like the cost is very steep.

1122
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:59,800
And so when I'm distracted by something like, you know, I've lost not only have I lost whatever

1123
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:03,440
was that I was building in my head at the time, I saw a comic the other day where somebody

1124
01:14:03,440 --> 01:14:07,920
who had a sort of a flow chart building in their head and somebody says, Hey, wait a

1125
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:08,920
second.

1126
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:10,360
And they turn and he's, Oh, nevermind.

1127
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:13,600
And the person's flow chart is pop like a bubble is popped and is gone.

1128
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:17,440
And so like they had this whole thing, they spent hours playing together.

1129
01:14:17,440 --> 01:14:19,560
They were interrupted for a second, and then it's gone.

1130
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:23,920
And I was like, well, that's very relatable because, you know, I feel the same kind of

1131
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:24,920
way.

1132
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:31,000
So if I intend to get anything done, it really has to be without distractions.

1133
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:36,600
Yeah, Gabe, what about you?

1134
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:41,960
I think, Cody, you suggest that's related to what Gabe was suggesting earlier with the

1135
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:43,880
curating of the RSS feeds.

1136
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:50,120
And I think that's certainly a good, I'd be curious for more of a step-by-step guide on

1137
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:55,320
how to do that, because there are sources that I wouldn't assume generate RSS feeds.

1138
01:14:55,320 --> 01:15:02,160
Now of course, the problem, that's like step two, step one probably is pruning out a good

1139
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:08,480
chunk of stuff that we right now have, you know, funneling into our various inboxes and

1140
01:15:08,480 --> 01:15:10,380
brains in general.

1141
01:15:10,380 --> 01:15:19,040
So I'm curious, Gabe, first, what about you in terms of channeling what comes in, but

1142
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:20,560
also time management?

1143
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:26,880
Like, how do you get past the feeling of I'm not doing enough or I'm not doing the right

1144
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:28,960
thing if you have that?

1145
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:29,960
Maybe I'm projecting.

1146
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:34,300
Well, you know, that's really hitting it on the head for me because when things started

1147
01:15:34,300 --> 01:15:37,520
getting going in 2020, I knew there was a problem.

1148
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:40,320
I knew something was off.

1149
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:45,640
And I spent a lot of time, honestly, really taking myself to task of am I as an individual,

1150
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:46,640
you know, who am I?

1151
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:49,080
I certainly put a lot of pressure on myself.

1152
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:53,400
What am I doing to contribute to solving this problem?

1153
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:54,760
And that caused a lot of stress and anxiety.

1154
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:59,320
I'm going to be honest, you know, that was very emotionally difficult because my answer

1155
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:00,760
for most of it was I'm not.

1156
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:01,760
I don't know.

1157
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:02,760
I don't even know.

1158
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:06,400
You know, you need direction and direction is very helpful.

1159
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:12,160
And so having, you know, even a list of things to do can do go a long way.

1160
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:15,800
One of the things I actually borrowed from Matthew is he's mentioned many times that

1161
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:17,240
he takes notes.

1162
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:23,160
And I have started journaling as of this year, and I find that a very helpful way to keep

1163
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:24,200
track.

1164
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:28,400
And I think that's what can help you preserve that architecture you're building in your

1165
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:31,040
mind if you get it down somewhere.

1166
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:35,440
And because I had started publishing on Substack before then, but this year I focused on trying

1167
01:16:35,440 --> 01:16:40,640
to have some of my own notes that maybe don't need to be as formal as a whole article going

1168
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:41,700
out there.

1169
01:16:41,700 --> 01:16:43,520
And I have found it very helpful.

1170
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:48,320
So I that's something I appreciate a lot, especially because it does also help with

1171
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:52,240
the emotional side, because if you write, you know, this made me really angry and you

1172
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:57,400
revisit it, you may be able to reassess why that made you really angry or why, you know,

1173
01:16:57,400 --> 01:16:59,340
it was able to get under your skin.

1174
01:16:59,340 --> 01:17:02,760
And then from a different frame of mind, you can now reevaluate it.

1175
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:06,760
And I, in my personal opinion, that has been the biggest power up I've had this entire

1176
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:13,480
time has been having my own notes and trying to revisit them occasionally.

1177
01:17:13,480 --> 01:17:18,560
And it does help with like dispassionate approaches to occasional topics.

1178
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:19,880
Absolutely.

1179
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:27,400
You know, if I could jump in right here, everybody has a different method for dealing with the

1180
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:30,120
information overload.

1181
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:32,840
That's something that you should want in a community, right?

1182
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:36,640
You should want all the different personality types who are going to process all the information

1183
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:37,640
differently.

1184
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:43,800
This is one of the reasons why it does trouble me that there seem to be attempts to farm

1185
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:53,080
people into communities based on a shared belief first, like, you know, the belief that

1186
01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:57,600
the vaccines are making everyone magnetic or the belief that that they're alien babies

1187
01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:01,680
in the vaccines, you know, like the more or less absurd or whatever.

1188
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:02,680
Right.

1189
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:09,200
And I've seen people online where if I if I just posted any bit of pushback or even

1190
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:13,440
just asked a question, then I was just verbally assaulted.

1191
01:18:13,440 --> 01:18:17,900
You know, I immediately stopped going to Thomas Rintz's Substack, for instance, because just

1192
01:18:17,900 --> 01:18:25,600
just a one sentence question and then boom, you know, there's this there seemed to be

1193
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:31,360
and I think that this is put in place, actually, I think this is part of of the operation of

1194
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:37,040
what all this is in the attempt to keep people outside of the mainstream from forming healthy

1195
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:38,040
communities.

1196
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:44,400
I think that there are people put in place as whips to to ensure that conformity.

1197
01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:46,720
So look around.

1198
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:51,000
And if you're if you're talking with a lot of people who aren't similar to you, that

1199
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:55,120
might be healthy.

1200
01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:56,120
I love it.

1201
01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:58,160
Well, what what do we do from here?

1202
01:18:58,160 --> 01:19:03,520
Like where where can we begin to establish?

1203
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:10,600
Like I'm curious as to how people who are aware that everything that's coming at them

1204
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:20,920
could be either just garbage or unintentional act of distracting or of overloading the mind.

1205
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:30,080
Like how do we identify what is important and how do we how do we then dismiss everything

1206
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:33,740
that's not maybe maybe that's already a question we've beaten into the ground.

1207
01:19:33,740 --> 01:19:37,960
But I wonder if there is a one, you know, a one sentence summation or something.

1208
01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:40,800
Oh, I don't know that I have a one sentence summation.

1209
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:44,720
I don't tend to do one sentences.

1210
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:50,680
But so it reminds me of one thing I wanted to go back on that gave had mentioned.

1211
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:53,000
He said that you needed to withdraw intelligently.

1212
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:54,000
Right.

1213
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:56,200
To the extent that you withdraw, you have to withdraw intelligently.

1214
01:19:56,200 --> 01:20:02,760
I think this is vitally important because I know that a lot of people on we're going

1215
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:07,800
to say most of my experience of people who are kind of espousing these ideas are on the

1216
01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:09,680
right or conservative side.

1217
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:12,560
They're like, let's just we're going to form our own communities.

1218
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:16,480
We're going to like in person, you know, move away from other places.

1219
01:20:16,480 --> 01:20:23,080
We're going to cut off entire websites or entire types of media.

1220
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:26,480
And we're going to completely isolate.

1221
01:20:26,480 --> 01:20:34,520
And while that may stop or slow the medic kind of infection, right, it may stop or slow

1222
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:36,200
the ideas from getting into your community.

1223
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:38,800
It may may make you feel better.

1224
01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:40,960
Probably, probably would really.

1225
01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:46,320
But is it going to be the winning strategy is my question.

1226
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:55,080
I'm not sure that a complete withdrawal or a an unintelligent withdrawal is the answer.

1227
01:20:55,080 --> 01:20:56,080
Right.

1228
01:20:56,080 --> 01:21:00,480
What we have to do is we have to we have to, like you said, withdraw intelligently.

1229
01:21:00,480 --> 01:21:07,760
And so kind of the retreat to the to a way that doesn't exist anymore, a way of the past

1230
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:13,260
that doesn't exist anymore is not going to be an answer of no Internet, no communication,

1231
01:21:13,260 --> 01:21:14,680
because any group that does this.

1232
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:19,400
And I had a conversation with a man in OU last night about this.

1233
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:24,480
Any group that that self isolates to that degree may continue on individually, but they're

1234
01:21:24,480 --> 01:21:27,240
not going to be influential in the world.

1235
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:30,800
They're not going to be able to spread what they've got.

1236
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:37,040
And so they may be a small granule that lives as they are and continues as they are, but

1237
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:38,320
they're not going to be able to spread that.

1238
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:40,760
They're not going to be able to influence.

1239
01:21:40,760 --> 01:21:48,000
And so I think that if we if we are too reckless with how we draw, we will lose the power that

1240
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:49,000
we have.

1241
01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:54,080
What we have to do is to withdraw in such a way from from the places that are completely

1242
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:55,080
toxic to us.

1243
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:56,400
We have to say, look, this is too much.

1244
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:58,240
I can't I can't be on this side of Twitter.

1245
01:21:58,240 --> 01:21:59,640
Like it's just poisoning me.

1246
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:02,200
It kills my kills my morale.

1247
01:22:02,200 --> 01:22:06,320
It kills my my ability to continue through the day.

1248
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:07,320
Can't do that.

1249
01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:12,720
I can't pay attention to these issues here because, you know, if I had if I had Twitter

1250
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:18,920
2000 years ago and all I did was read about how, you know, these wolves keep killing all

1251
01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:22,480
the sheep and we're never going to have enough food to eat and look at what's happening in

1252
01:22:22,480 --> 01:22:23,480
this place.

1253
01:22:23,480 --> 01:22:27,240
And these potatoes are I've got a disease.

1254
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:30,280
Maybe I wouldn't have been able to continue right to the modern day.

1255
01:22:30,280 --> 01:22:31,280
Right.

1256
01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:36,240
Because, you know, archaic Twitter would have would have killed my ability to continue.

1257
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:39,800
And so I wouldn't want to spend my time on toxic topics.

1258
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:45,880
But what I need to do is to be able to trim those topics without trimming, first of all,

1259
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:47,200
my ability to communicate.

1260
01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:50,200
And second of all, my ability to receive important information.

1261
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:54,400
Like I do need to know if I do need to know if there's a war in some other place.

1262
01:22:54,400 --> 01:23:00,720
But I don't need to follow excruciating detail exactly what's happening.

1263
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:04,760
But I so I think it's I think the question of how you do this is in the air.

1264
01:23:04,760 --> 01:23:06,760
Like I don't I don't know what the answer is.

1265
01:23:06,760 --> 01:23:12,360
But we do need to keep in mind that we have to be very careful not to over withdraw for

1266
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:16,560
the reasons I've stated.

1267
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:19,320
Yeah, tremendously interesting.

1268
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:24,920
And I do like I like the honesty we can have with ourselves in a group of saying the specific

1269
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:26,560
solutions aren't clear yet.

1270
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:33,680
But the general premise as it begins to open up and shed light, you know, moving in that

1271
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:37,160
direction, I think is a good idea.

1272
01:23:37,160 --> 01:23:42,760
I definitely don't feel I have the solutions in my life yet beyond just reminding myself

1273
01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:48,380
that it's OK to not, as you say, not know the nitty gritty of absolutely everything.

1274
01:23:48,380 --> 01:23:52,080
It's OK to miss an email from time to time.

1275
01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:58,880
Like there are certain underlying principles that so long as they remain your driving force,

1276
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:01,460
the details can be worked on and improved.

1277
01:24:01,460 --> 01:24:07,160
And then the bigger picture questions, you know, we don't need to rush to an answer.

1278
01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:10,840
But as we're moving to an end here, I'm wondering if anybody has anything else on the topic

1279
01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:13,220
that we haven't been able to get to yet.

1280
01:24:13,220 --> 01:24:16,880
Any any any core anything we haven't addressed yet?

1281
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:23,760
Matthew, what are you thinking?

1282
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:26,960
I was listening to Cody and I was thinking about the difference.

1283
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:33,480
I was thinking about exit and build, which is something that it's a phrase that I like.

1284
01:24:33,480 --> 01:24:38,240
It's promoted by John Bush and Derrick Brose.

1285
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:43,260
And I think that there is a way to do that and still do what Cody's talking about, which

1286
01:24:43,260 --> 01:24:48,300
is to you know, you don't have to be a Luddite.

1287
01:24:48,300 --> 01:24:51,620
And in fact, it's probably a losing strategy, I would think.

1288
01:24:51,620 --> 01:24:58,400
Or at the very least, the Amish aren't going to decide how the next technological era unfolds.

1289
01:24:58,400 --> 01:24:59,400
Right.

1290
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:03,920
If you are interested in participating in that, you need to still be connected, but

1291
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:05,680
you need to be connected smartly.

1292
01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:10,320
You know, maybe not with a you know, Cody puts it as withdraw smartly, but maybe that's

1293
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:11,320
a disentangle.

1294
01:25:11,320 --> 01:25:16,760
You know, maybe maybe also think of it as connecting smartly.

1295
01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:21,400
I would also build on what Cody said, because one of the things I've been trying to almost

1296
01:25:21,400 --> 01:25:26,960
have as a mantra to myself to kind of rephrase what he said is I think it's good to humanize

1297
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:29,340
yourself and others.

1298
01:25:29,340 --> 01:25:32,140
You know, you make mistakes, they make mistakes.

1299
01:25:32,140 --> 01:25:35,200
Try not to treat people as oh, this person is from that camp.

1300
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:36,200
Therefore x, y and z.

1301
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:37,680
I'm from this camp.

1302
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:40,240
Therefore, I'm x, y and z.

1303
01:25:40,240 --> 01:25:42,240
Treat everyone as people.

1304
01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:46,560
And that can really go a long way when you're trying to connect with people who are different

1305
01:25:46,560 --> 01:25:47,560
from you.

1306
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:49,580
Everyone is different from you one way or another.

1307
01:25:49,580 --> 01:25:53,800
Just giving people an out.

1308
01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:56,400
Very interesting way of putting it.

1309
01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:59,280
Interact with grace.

1310
01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:00,960
So one thing I don't know if we have time for this.

1311
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:02,920
I'm not sure how long the program runs.

1312
01:26:02,920 --> 01:26:04,520
Yeah, go for it.

1313
01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:08,320
Some things I was I had marked down a couple of things that were maybe worth talking about

1314
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:10,840
that we didn't actually get to.

1315
01:26:10,840 --> 01:26:15,780
And the only thing left on my on my list was do we want to talk about examples of times

1316
01:26:15,780 --> 01:26:23,560
where we think there may or may not have been an actual DDoS attempt on on the psyche as

1317
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:24,560
a whole.

1318
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:26,660
So it's an actual psychic attack.

1319
01:26:26,660 --> 01:26:28,760
So a good example of this.

1320
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:34,080
I mean, we've been seeing sort of continued attempts, I think, over the course of the

1321
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:35,080
past few years.

1322
01:26:35,080 --> 01:26:42,640
But one that struck me was around the the 2020 election, we're not going to be on YouTube,

1323
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:43,640
are we?

1324
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:48,400
I'm streaming to my YouTube, but it's maybe not going to stay up.

1325
01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:54,680
So whatever extent anything happened, the discussion around that at that time, I found

1326
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:57,920
incapacitating, right?

1327
01:26:57,920 --> 01:27:00,960
Whether you think something happened, something didn't happen.

1328
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:02,440
I found the discussion to be incapacitating.

1329
01:27:02,440 --> 01:27:05,440
It was like I was very busy at the time.

1330
01:27:05,440 --> 01:27:12,800
And, you know, I was running OU, I have my job, and I have my life outside of that.

1331
01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:15,720
And I really just had to completely stop.

1332
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:24,080
I completely pulled back from all communications outside of OU, because I was I mean, it worked.

1333
01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:26,880
It functioned to shut my down my services down.

1334
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:32,960
So whether that was just a lot of people are interested in the topic, and we're going to

1335
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:41,040
discuss it, or whether it was to the extent it was a dedicated denial of psyche attack,

1336
01:27:41,040 --> 01:27:42,120
it functioned on me.

1337
01:27:42,120 --> 01:27:46,360
And so I wondered if we wanted to talk about other examples that may or may not have been

1338
01:27:46,360 --> 01:27:51,000
such a thing, or if we just want to discuss anything along those lines, since we didn't

1339
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:57,520
touch on the main topic as, you know, exclusively, we talked about a whole bunch of other stuff.

1340
01:27:57,520 --> 01:27:58,520
So yeah, yeah.

1341
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:05,540
Well, are there any other examples that people have thought of?

1342
01:28:05,540 --> 01:28:10,460
On a broader level, one of the things I'm curious about is an education.

1343
01:28:10,460 --> 01:28:13,920
You know, a lot of people will talk about, oh, the standards are declining, or they're

1344
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:15,600
just passing students.

1345
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:20,360
And even on the university level, they had a word for it, which they called elite overproduction,

1346
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:25,160
which was, oh, there are too many qualified people entering, I guess, the workforce, so

1347
01:28:25,160 --> 01:28:26,320
to speak.

1348
01:28:26,320 --> 01:28:31,400
And even though this is not information, this is actually whole people being moved through

1349
01:28:31,400 --> 01:28:38,040
the system faster, and has that bit part of the way information has been pushed through

1350
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:41,800
systems and created these additional difficulties.

1351
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:50,520
I think in that specific question, I think that is an unintended consequence of the game

1352
01:28:50,520 --> 01:28:56,400
theory of how the university systems are set up.

1353
01:28:56,400 --> 01:29:01,400
Because of the cheap, because of the structure of the one mentor and the multiple graduate

1354
01:29:01,400 --> 01:29:05,440
students and because of the cheap labor that you get from graduate students.

1355
01:29:05,440 --> 01:29:10,280
I think that the benefits of pushing people out with degrees to get more people to work

1356
01:29:10,280 --> 01:29:15,840
in your lab for cheap is set up in such a way that you, I mean, it could be somebody

1357
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:19,800
was using the fact of that to push information out.

1358
01:29:19,800 --> 01:29:25,000
But I think that just on its own, if you have that kind of a setup, you're going to end

1359
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:35,000
up with an excess of educated people who want to go out and talk about their education.

1360
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:44,280
You know, I want to briefly return Cody to the example you gave because I think it's

1361
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:49,200
actually a really good one, the 2020 election.

1362
01:29:49,200 --> 01:29:54,880
So my what I watched happen, I think you're right that that was maybe one of the most

1363
01:29:54,880 --> 01:30:02,740
obvious attempts at a DDOS attack for a really obvious intended outcome.

1364
01:30:02,740 --> 01:30:10,760
Because it's my understanding that what happened is you had reason to believe something went

1365
01:30:10,760 --> 01:30:11,760
wrong.

1366
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:18,040
So that aside, then it came to people talking about what actually went wrong.

1367
01:30:18,040 --> 01:30:20,520
And you had a few different narratives.

1368
01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:26,840
One involved foreign interference through digital connectivity and networks out of China

1369
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:29,280
or Italy, Germany.

1370
01:30:29,280 --> 01:30:33,220
There's a few variations of that story.

1371
01:30:33,220 --> 01:30:39,800
Then there was the vote counting machines and how they were the primary source, you

1372
01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:43,120
know, for all the obvious ways you can hack a machine and get it to spit out a different

1373
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:45,080
outcome.

1374
01:30:45,080 --> 01:30:50,240
Then you had everything to do with mail in voting.

1375
01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:56,360
And that's why COVID was done is to get Trump out of office because they needed to implement

1376
01:30:56,360 --> 01:31:00,160
all these COVID measures to then justify mail in voting.

1377
01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:07,720
But what which of those were the ones that got the most attention right off the bat?

1378
01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:17,040
Well, they they were the China interfering through the Internet and the Dominion and

1379
01:31:17,040 --> 01:31:22,400
smartmatic vote counting machines being rigged.

1380
01:31:22,400 --> 01:31:27,520
And which of all of those had the least evidence to back them up?

1381
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:31,160
It was the ones that got the most attention.

1382
01:31:31,160 --> 01:31:33,160
And quite please.

1383
01:31:33,160 --> 01:31:34,760
Oh, yeah.

1384
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:42,580
And and so what wound up happening is and and correct me if I'm wrong on any of this,

1385
01:31:42,580 --> 01:31:47,560
but what wound up happening is the initial lawsuits that were very high profile, you

1386
01:31:47,560 --> 01:31:53,960
know, the ones involving Sidney Powell, Rudy Giuliani and a few other big names wound up

1387
01:31:53,960 --> 01:31:59,440
being so premature.

1388
01:31:59,440 --> 01:32:09,660
And so they wound up not having the evidentiary base you might desire for such a serious allegation.

1389
01:32:09,660 --> 01:32:18,080
And they then basically made it impossible to bring any other kind of perhaps more nuanced,

1390
01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:24,920
more legitimate argument about, for example, signature match verification, looking at all

1391
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:30,360
of the ballots and and finding whether there was evidence that they were in fact sent by

1392
01:32:30,360 --> 01:32:32,000
the person who said they would.

1393
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:35,900
But that has nothing to do with the Internet or that has nothing to do with ballot machines

1394
01:32:35,900 --> 01:32:38,460
actually miscounting.

1395
01:32:38,460 --> 01:32:45,480
And so the way that the story played out, at least in that summary, which which I may

1396
01:32:45,480 --> 01:32:50,120
there may be others who disagree that to me would be an example of how you might apply

1397
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:56,760
a DDoS type information overload early on with slightly wrong stories in order to distract

1398
01:32:56,760 --> 01:32:58,760
from what could be a very plausible.

1399
01:32:58,760 --> 01:33:02,320
Yeah, I have two things.

1400
01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:05,600
I think to to be more to hold me to it.

1401
01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:13,520
So first, I think that ordering it by the the amount of interaction it got is maybe

1402
01:33:13,520 --> 01:33:18,680
the wrong way to look at it, because I think that these kinds of things, if done, they

1403
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:23,280
would be done in a sort of a shotgun approach where they want to have low interaction and

1404
01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:26,720
high interaction, medium interaction.

1405
01:33:26,720 --> 01:33:28,880
If I were designing it, this is what I would do.

1406
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:33,720
So I would have very high believable, very low believable, like all sorts of things intermixed

1407
01:33:33,720 --> 01:33:40,040
and put out at the same time, because if you put only the big stories fake and then, you

1408
01:33:40,040 --> 01:33:44,680
know, I just feel like it would be easier to see through if I were if I were, you know,

1409
01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:51,160
an evil genius, whatever evil overlord, that's what I would do.

1410
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:56,320
Second, I had a second.

1411
01:33:56,320 --> 01:33:57,320
Hmm.

1412
01:33:57,320 --> 01:34:00,480
We may have to come back to it.

1413
01:34:00,480 --> 01:34:01,720
I think I may have lost the first one.

1414
01:34:01,720 --> 01:34:07,320
But so so I think that the ordering may not be as important, because I think that if I

1415
01:34:07,320 --> 01:34:10,840
were going to do something like this, I would do it in a certain way where it would not

1416
01:34:10,840 --> 01:34:11,840
only be that.

1417
01:34:11,840 --> 01:34:19,120
But I think that I think it would be very easy to accomplish, because people were so

1418
01:34:19,120 --> 01:34:22,160
concerned and everybody had an opinion.

1419
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:24,200
And I just felt inundated everywhere I looked.

1420
01:34:24,200 --> 01:34:29,440
And very importantly, I feel like it seemed like no two places were talking about the

1421
01:34:29,440 --> 01:34:30,440
same thing.

1422
01:34:30,440 --> 01:34:31,440
Yeah.

1423
01:34:31,440 --> 01:34:36,840
And it seemed like every single source had a different but vital flaw that they were

1424
01:34:36,840 --> 01:34:40,520
like, oh, this thing or do you see these people handing off this?

1425
01:34:40,520 --> 01:34:43,000
Here's an image of people handing off a flash drive.

1426
01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:44,240
We see this happen.

1427
01:34:44,240 --> 01:34:46,320
And this person was here who did that in this.

1428
01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:51,600
And then some other people said, well, the special forces attack this base and some other

1429
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:52,600
place.

1430
01:34:52,600 --> 01:34:54,520
Like it was it was very, very different.

1431
01:34:54,520 --> 01:34:57,160
It was everywhere you went.

1432
01:34:57,160 --> 01:35:04,520
And it was to a degree where you couldn't make heads or tails of the situation, I feel

1433
01:35:04,520 --> 01:35:05,520
like.

1434
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:13,600
And so that's what leads me to believe that it was a propaganda or an influential.

1435
01:35:13,600 --> 01:35:18,880
The part of it was an attempt to influence people is because that's how propaganda is

1436
01:35:18,880 --> 01:35:19,880
done.

1437
01:35:19,880 --> 01:35:24,580
Propaganda is everywhere all the time, constantly, or else it doesn't work.

1438
01:35:24,580 --> 01:35:29,120
And so this is the same kind of deal where what you were seeing was different stories

1439
01:35:29,120 --> 01:35:31,000
everywhere all the time.

1440
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:37,600
And that's how you were able to demoralize the people who were interested in learning

1441
01:35:37,600 --> 01:35:41,080
more about the situation.

1442
01:35:41,080 --> 01:35:42,080
In my opinion.

1443
01:35:42,080 --> 01:35:43,080
Yep.

1444
01:35:43,080 --> 01:35:44,160
Agreed.

1445
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:49,400
And I just want to point out it is one of those discussions that everybody should be

1446
01:35:49,400 --> 01:35:55,080
very interested in because it does not actually matter which side you're on.

1447
01:35:55,080 --> 01:35:59,680
Shouldn't we all be very concerned about the integrity of our election systems?

1448
01:35:59,680 --> 01:36:03,560
We're dealing with something here in Canada very similar where and I have not gotten to

1449
01:36:03,560 --> 01:36:05,880
the bottom of what I think is actually happening.

1450
01:36:05,880 --> 01:36:12,440
But you've got this huge story right now about how Justin Trudeau's reelection campaign and

1451
01:36:12,440 --> 01:36:19,280
possibly many others in recent Canadian history have been influenced by Chinese operatives.

1452
01:36:19,280 --> 01:36:25,400
And money and it's interesting how you can talk about that, but you can't talk about

1453
01:36:25,400 --> 01:36:28,680
any version of the same in the States.

1454
01:36:28,680 --> 01:36:30,280
So that on its own is also interesting.

1455
01:36:30,280 --> 01:36:32,440
The contrast in what's acceptable discourse.

1456
01:36:32,440 --> 01:36:38,200
It's very, very wild because what you see is the number one, the US interferes with

1457
01:36:38,200 --> 01:36:40,620
elections everywhere.

1458
01:36:40,620 --> 01:36:47,520
We absolutely if we don't, then we should fire people in charge and start doing it.

1459
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:48,960
We're a major country.

1460
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:50,200
That's something that's expected.

1461
01:36:50,200 --> 01:36:55,080
You should be making sure that the people you were at the table with at the world stage

1462
01:36:55,080 --> 01:36:56,600
are friendly to you.

1463
01:36:56,600 --> 01:36:59,320
You have to do what you have to do to get that to happen.

1464
01:36:59,320 --> 01:37:06,000
And I think that's just good management of your government.

1465
01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:09,240
And so you would expect that other people are doing the same to us, which I'm sure they

1466
01:37:09,240 --> 01:37:11,680
are and they should be.

1467
01:37:11,680 --> 01:37:17,080
And so it's our job to defend the integrity of our elections.

1468
01:37:17,080 --> 01:37:25,320
And what we have is interest groups have for I don't even know how long in our country,

1469
01:37:25,320 --> 01:37:31,160
either entire political parties in certain locations or throughout the country have actually

1470
01:37:31,160 --> 01:37:33,560
influenced elections in certain ways.

1471
01:37:33,560 --> 01:37:40,840
I mean, there's the whole story about was the battle of Athens where there was a town

1472
01:37:40,840 --> 01:37:48,960
in Georgia where people were taken over the voting polls and not let in deciding who was

1473
01:37:48,960 --> 01:37:56,560
going to be the sheriff of some local role.

1474
01:37:56,560 --> 01:38:00,440
And there was a gunfight in the middle of a city in the United States to clear out people

1475
01:38:00,440 --> 01:38:05,520
who were influencing, who were stopping fair elections.

1476
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:12,920
I mean, this is what happened with voting, was the voting test polls, exams that they

1477
01:38:12,920 --> 01:38:18,080
would give to people to stop certain undereducated or minority people from voting.

1478
01:38:18,080 --> 01:38:25,360
This is not new to have people influencing elections in the South and the North all over

1479
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:27,360
the country on different levels.

1480
01:38:27,360 --> 01:38:29,520
And this is just historical examples.

1481
01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:32,520
This is 50, 100 years ago or plus.

1482
01:38:32,520 --> 01:38:36,200
So this is not even like new, maybe contentious things.

1483
01:38:36,200 --> 01:38:38,720
These are things you can read about in your history books.

1484
01:38:38,720 --> 01:38:43,160
And so why should we expect it to have stopped?

1485
01:38:43,160 --> 01:38:44,160
We shouldn't.

1486
01:38:44,160 --> 01:38:49,520
And so as technology increases, so does a group or a single person's ability to influence

1487
01:38:49,520 --> 01:38:50,520
something.

1488
01:38:50,520 --> 01:38:51,520
They're force multipliers.

1489
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:54,360
That's exactly what technology does.

1490
01:38:54,360 --> 01:38:57,800
And so we just have to keep that in mind.

1491
01:38:57,800 --> 01:38:58,800
Yeah.

1492
01:38:58,800 --> 01:38:59,800
Yep.

1493
01:38:59,800 --> 01:39:00,800
Very good point.

1494
01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:07,240
Well, we are kind of at the, you're right.

1495
01:39:07,240 --> 01:39:13,000
We could have, there was a bunch of topics that would have been really good to get into.

1496
01:39:13,000 --> 01:39:17,160
And I think this is testament to how this has to be an ongoing conversation.

1497
01:39:17,160 --> 01:39:21,080
And that's sort of the premise of rounding the earth from the get-go is to be able to

1498
01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:26,640
over time flesh out these complex ideas.

1499
01:39:26,640 --> 01:39:29,440
And that's what Operation Uplift has been about as well.

1500
01:39:29,440 --> 01:39:34,800
We've been going on however many years now of seemingly never-ending discussions that

1501
01:39:34,800 --> 01:39:37,500
continue to change as new information comes available.

1502
01:39:37,500 --> 01:39:43,000
So we'll have to have another Operation Uplift open discussion like this.

1503
01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:45,080
Any final, yeah, go for it, Matthew.

1504
01:39:45,080 --> 01:39:47,160
Operation Uplift is two years old.

1505
01:39:47,160 --> 01:39:49,720
Two years.

1506
01:39:49,720 --> 01:39:52,920
That blows my mind.

1507
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:53,920
Yeah.

1508
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:56,920
Here's to many more.

1509
01:39:56,920 --> 01:40:02,400
Well, here's to many more and hopefully they're more focused on the just hanging out with

1510
01:40:02,400 --> 01:40:08,900
awesome people side of things and maintaining more of a normal kind of life.

1511
01:40:08,900 --> 01:40:13,040
Because I don't know about you, to the extent there are ongoing crises, I'd very much like

1512
01:40:13,040 --> 01:40:15,920
those planes to start to land.

1513
01:40:15,920 --> 01:40:19,040
Too much of an optimist, Leo.

1514
01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:26,520
Perhaps what we should root for is for there to be offspring.

1515
01:40:26,520 --> 01:40:28,840
What do you mean as in community nodes?

1516
01:40:28,840 --> 01:40:29,840
Yeah.

1517
01:40:29,840 --> 01:40:30,840
Yeah.

1518
01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:35,960
Like the core of Meerkats, it begins to split and it becomes multiple groups.

1519
01:40:35,960 --> 01:40:39,320
And then that's part of the health of everything.

1520
01:40:39,320 --> 01:40:42,640
There's a death and a rebirth and all of that going on.

1521
01:40:42,640 --> 01:40:45,320
So long as it's all healthy.

1522
01:40:45,320 --> 01:40:46,320
Agreed.

1523
01:40:46,320 --> 01:40:47,320
Okay.

1524
01:40:47,320 --> 01:40:48,320
Well, let's go around.

1525
01:40:48,320 --> 01:40:50,560
Let's say our final notes here.

1526
01:40:50,560 --> 01:40:55,320
Cody, where do you want to direct people if they want to learn more about your work or

1527
01:40:55,320 --> 01:40:58,560
where they can best dedicate their time and attention?

1528
01:40:58,560 --> 01:41:04,200
Oh, as for the second one, that's quite difficult.

1529
01:41:04,200 --> 01:41:09,240
I don't know where the best way to spend your attention is.

1530
01:41:09,240 --> 01:41:12,920
Hopefully you can figure that out for yourself as you continue to watch rounding the earth.

1531
01:41:12,920 --> 01:41:13,920
Uh oh.

1532
01:41:13,920 --> 01:41:15,520
I think I've lost video.

1533
01:41:15,520 --> 01:41:20,360
Oh, I still see you.

1534
01:41:20,360 --> 01:41:23,360
Look at that.

1535
01:41:23,360 --> 01:41:25,400
Okay.

1536
01:41:25,400 --> 01:41:27,000
Well am I back?

1537
01:41:27,000 --> 01:41:28,000
Oh yeah.

1538
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:29,000
Yep.

1539
01:41:29,000 --> 01:41:30,000
You there?

1540
01:41:30,000 --> 01:41:31,000
No.

1541
01:41:31,000 --> 01:41:34,000
Ladies and gentlemen, I'm here.

1542
01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:39,920
You hear of a DDoS attack?

1543
01:41:39,920 --> 01:41:40,920
Can you hear me?

1544
01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:41,920
Yeah.

1545
01:41:41,920 --> 01:41:42,920
Excellent.

1546
01:41:42,920 --> 01:41:43,920
Okay.

1547
01:41:43,920 --> 01:41:48,640
Anyway, I do have a I have a sub sack that I have one article on and hope to add more

1548
01:41:48,640 --> 01:41:49,640
to.

1549
01:41:49,640 --> 01:41:55,960
So we'll put a link to that in the description, but I don't know how to when I figure out

1550
01:41:55,960 --> 01:42:01,320
how to answer the question of how do we stop the DDoS attacks and how to handle the fire

1551
01:42:01,320 --> 01:42:04,240
hose, then I'll be sure to let you know.

1552
01:42:04,240 --> 01:42:05,240
Sounds awesome.

1553
01:42:05,240 --> 01:42:06,240
Okay.

1554
01:42:06,240 --> 01:42:08,720
And we will get that link in the in the description for everybody.

1555
01:42:08,720 --> 01:42:10,640
And Gabe, how about you?

1556
01:42:10,640 --> 01:42:12,720
Where do you want to direct people?

1557
01:42:12,720 --> 01:42:16,480
I mean, I have my own website at liprasolutions.network.

1558
01:42:16,480 --> 01:42:21,040
If anyone is interested in keeping up with what I'm up to, but I would also say if anyone's

1559
01:42:21,040 --> 01:42:26,280
interested in Campfire Wiki and the project itself, even if you're not, you know, feel

1560
01:42:26,280 --> 01:42:31,520
like you have the time to, you know, really edit it or become involved, if you even have

1561
01:42:31,520 --> 01:42:35,600
feedback, you know, feedback is really useful for those of us who, you know, are working

1562
01:42:35,600 --> 01:42:36,600
on it.

1563
01:42:36,600 --> 01:42:38,560
If you could just say, oh, this article could be improved.

1564
01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:41,440
Here are some ideas, you know, you'd like to see fleshed out.

1565
01:42:41,440 --> 01:42:47,160
That can go a long way and, you know, the operation uplift email is in the chat and

1566
01:42:47,160 --> 01:42:52,120
anything you can do to suggest ways it could be made better or even more relevant is probably

1567
01:42:52,120 --> 01:42:55,120
quite welcome.

1568
01:42:55,120 --> 01:42:56,120
Absolutely.

1569
01:42:56,120 --> 01:42:57,120
Okay.

1570
01:42:57,120 --> 01:42:58,120
All right.

1571
01:42:58,120 --> 01:43:00,600
Well, let's say, let's say our goodbyes there.

1572
01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:05,840
Diane and Matthew both appear to have had to step out and we thank them both very much

1573
01:43:05,840 --> 01:43:10,160
for joining in and Cody, Gabriel, thank you both very much for joining us today.

1574
01:43:10,160 --> 01:43:16,560
I've had a lot of fun talking with you guys and look forward to the next opportunity.

1575
01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:17,560
Thank you.

1576
01:43:17,560 --> 01:43:18,560
All right.

1577
01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:19,560
Oops.

1578
01:43:19,560 --> 01:43:23,040
I took myself out instead of Gabe.

1579
01:43:23,040 --> 01:43:24,040
Funny how that works.

1580
01:43:24,040 --> 01:43:26,080
Well, yes, thank you for watching.

1581
01:43:26,080 --> 01:43:32,080
There's been a very robust discussion in the locals chat running your thought locals.com.

1582
01:43:32,080 --> 01:43:39,160
Thank you to 72 pine cones and Tonica visceral adventure, Jack's a Rue and yeah, the whole

1583
01:43:39,160 --> 01:43:42,680
OU gang, everybody who's watching on rumble.

1584
01:43:42,680 --> 01:43:46,680
And yes, as Miss Weasel points out, it is important to let people know that there is

1585
01:43:46,680 --> 01:43:49,600
indeed a campfire Wiki to begin with.

1586
01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:54,920
I think part of the issue is if people don't know it exists, people will not use it.

1587
01:43:54,920 --> 01:43:58,200
So campfire.wiki go check it out.

1588
01:43:58,200 --> 01:44:05,260
It's a place to collect information, historical records on the COVID-19 declared pandemic

1589
01:44:05,260 --> 01:44:07,680
and associated topics.

1590
01:44:07,680 --> 01:44:08,680
Thank you so much.

1591
01:44:08,680 --> 01:44:14,480
I'm Liam Sturgis and we will see you again tomorrow for our weekly locals supporters

1592
01:44:14,480 --> 01:44:20,440
only exclusive become a supporter or a free member at www.roundingmyourth.locals.com and

1593
01:44:20,440 --> 01:44:44,120
we will see you tomorrow.