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Hello everyone and welcome back to the Rounding the Earth

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podcast. Rounding the Earth is a multimedia education project based on the popular newsletter

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series published on Substack written by applied statistician and educator Matthew Crawford.

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Topics of discussion range from critical analysis of conventional wisdom to Bitcoin and everything

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in between, in particular the ongoing plandemonium and the many offshoot topics that come about

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such as the one we're going to get into today. Our goal is a careful examination of important

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topics and perspectives shaping the world that too few people talk about. Subscribe

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to Rounding the Earth on Locals, Substack and Rumble to join a burgeoning research community

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and to help us unflatten the earth. My name is Liam Sturgis. I recently fell under a lawnmower.

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I'm a musician, music producer and writer slash editor coming at you live from Vancouver,

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British Columbia, Canada, and I will be your host for today. Now please allow me to introduce

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the author of Rounding the Earth and my co-host for the podcast in the blue corner, Mr. Matthew

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Crawford. Hello sir. How are things? Did I say red corner or blue corner? I forget which

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one I said. I don't know. I'm in our corner. And that's what really matters. Well, let's

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not waste any time. We've got another guy in our corner today that I'm really excited

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to introduce to people. Somebody we've been working with. He's in the Canadian corner.

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He is in the Canadian corner, which means we're in the hat area. Whatever corner that

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is we're in America's hat area. But let me please introduce someone we've been working

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with through Operation Uplift behind the scenes for a long time now and more directly in recent

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weeks and months. Please allow us to introduce Gabriel. How are you, Gabe? Hey guys, it's

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a pleasure to be here. And we all call Gabriel Gabe. So that's a familiarity thing for anybody

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watching. We've known Gabe for a while now. Yeah. And as part of my introduction, I may

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as well jump straight into my slides if I just share here. Yeah. Do you want to give

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the audience a quick one or two sentence summary? What are we talking about today and why are

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we talking about it? So today we are talking about big tech and my approach to technological

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solutions moving forward. Let me know if you can see my screen share. We've got it looks

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like there's a yeah. Perfect. All right. So add it to the screen. Yes, absolutely. Please.

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Boom. There we go. So I'm Gabriel. I'm a Canadian, as has been mentioned, born and raised in

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Ontario, Canada, and I'm passionate about free software. Now free software isn't just

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software that's free as in free in price, but free as in freedom. And I also come from

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a tech support background. I worked in at Canadian Blood Services in a tech support

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capacity before the Plandemonium ejected me from this aspect of my life. I maintain my

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own personal website at Gabe dot rocks. But more importantly, the Libra Solutions Network

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is the project I start about talking about what we can do when it comes to technology.

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This slide from the Snowden leaks is actually something I come back to all the time. It

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in a nutshell explains exactly what's wrong with big tech and how we've been using it.

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For people who are listening, I'll just describe that it is a graphic. Can I stop you for a

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second? We're seeing both your slide preparation and the slide itself. And I want to see the

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slide bigger. But also, I think that's not what you intended. Yeah, I just noticed that's

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what this was as well. It was oddly rectangular. Oh, well, then you're getting a sneak preview

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of the slides. That is very of course a big part of tech is troubleshooting. So entire

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screen. Ah, there's the problem. Okay. Now you can re add it. Yeah, there we go there.

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Now you can actually see the picture. That picture, as far as I'm concerned, is 90% of

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our technological problems. We have all been bribed by big tech offering us basically free

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storage and bandwidth to use their services, whether it's Gmail, whether it's Facebook

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and now tick tock that they're even thinking about banning, though that bill has other

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issues to discuss on its own. The main thing I want to point out about this graphic is

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it has this little note SSL added and removed here. Smiley face. This is because although

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big tech has spent a lot of time making sure your communications and data are private.

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Once it gets to them, the moment it hits their door, you have no more guarantees. The other

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side of the problem is what your audience and people generally are more familiar with.

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Big tech platforms will sensor people locking them out of the discussion, and then they'll

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use their advanced tools to shape the one conversation they want people to have. And

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in any aspect of the plan, pneumonia, or even some of the broader social issues, this censorship

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and centralization of discussion itself will create its own kind of problems. So Richard

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Stallman is somebody who's actually seen the coming decades away. He advocates for what's

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called the free software movement. And he wrote the core utils for the new operating

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system. Free software involves the four freedoms, the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study

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and change the software. This is what makes free software separate from proprietary software.

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The answer here is open protocols, whether it's XMPP, matrix, IRC, NOSTER, or even IPFS.

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There are tons of different ways where you just simply establish the rule set for how

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people want to interact, and then they can use their own tools, their own environments,

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their own preferred ways of interacting with what is effectively an open system. As an

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example of an open system, I'm going to reference the Fediverse. On the most basic level, the

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Fediverse just establishes that you are a actor, whether it's a person or a blog, and

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you have an inbox that you receive messages at, and you have an outbox that you send messages

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to, which is how others receive what you send. What makes this system really powerful is

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that the activity pub specification is an open protocol. Many different platforms and

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services actually use it. In this graphic, it shows WordPress, Mastodon, which is the

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one you might have heard about, but there's also PureTube, Rightfullyly, and Funkwhale

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for podcasts. I'm actually going to demonstrate this interoperability for you right now, as

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this is a video I have where I demonstrate what is the Fediverse actually. And I'm going

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to go back to my MISKI instance, which is kind of like a general social media platform.

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And so I'm just going to write, hello, rounding the earth. And once it sends, I don't know

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if it'll take a minute or just a second, but I'll just refresh this page. And the comment

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here from my MISKI instance actually shows up in the comments here. Sorry about that.

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I hope you didn't hear the audio, but there it is. So what's excellent about this is the

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interoperability. Now, while this is something that's built into the Fediverse itself, it

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is by no means unique to it. Fundamentally, any interoperable and public system will work

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this way. Many people will describe the Fediverse as it's like email. You have multiple servers

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that communicate with each other. And you'll have your own home base, and then your home

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base talks to the other home bases. And this really does help with single points of failure.

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Remember last weekend, Mastodon.social, the largest Fediverse instance, had its own DDoS

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attack ongoing, but most of the network didn't exist because most of the network doesn't

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just exist on one server. And so as a broader way of distributing not only the conversation,

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but the actual technical infrastructure itself, it's a lot more resilient and robust.

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Taking the walk. Now, fundamentally, we could all just sign up to Amazon Web Services and

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create Fediverse profiles on their giant machines, but ideally it would be best to self-host.

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Unihost, LibreServer, and both Start9's, embassy OS make that really easy. Those are all different

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systems you can run that will just make installing most of these services one click as install

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like you would on any other system. You can also do it through Docker, which is a containerized

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system that does make getting started a lot quicker. And as well, I put the photo bash

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there because bash is the Linux command terminal and you can still do it quote unquote by hand

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if you like. There are some excellent guides on this online. Landshad.net maintains basically

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whatever service you want to start. It has excellent instructions and it's not just limited

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to the five limited there. As well, I also want to point out that this website, gofoss.net,

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is actually quite excellent. It is probably the most comprehensive break free from the

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cloud and retain your digital sovereignty website I have seen to date. And there are

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a lot of people trying, so it's a high bar to meet.

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Lastly, I also just want to discuss the three primary resources in cyberspace. And these

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are what I call the limits to decentralization. Because far too many times people will just

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look at a software, an app, an ecosystem, and just examine it on the software level.

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To truly decentralize the technological landscape, we need to think in terms of computing power,

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storage, and bandwidth. Who has it? Who controls it? And how are they all used together? Thank

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you. And that's my presentation.

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That's who you are. That's incredible. Wow. Yeah, that was a lot very fast. And some of

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that is familiar. Some of it is brand new. But the concept is, I think, something as

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you suggest, that specifically the running gear at the audience is starting to understand,

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which is when we have a centralized system of connected things on the internet that are

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still controlled by just a handful of companies, you wind up with situations where we're not

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allowed on YouTube anymore. So that's awesome. Thank you for that quick rundown.

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Before we hit different points, Gabe, can you keep up that slideshow? I know that I

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will have questions and want to go back to certain points in the slides.

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There we go. I've added it back.

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In the wonderful Locals chat we've got going, we have our usual fantastic group of people

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who have come over to... I don't think Locals is a decentralized platform in the way you're

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discussing it. Maybe we can talk about that. But we do have people contributing to the

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chat saying, this seems like it's over their head, but they'll try to keep up. I don't

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think it needs to be over their head, right? I think this is actually a fairly straightforward

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set of concepts. But if you were to take what you just said in that presentation and introduce

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the notion, introduce the concept to somebody in a single sentence, what is the problem

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you're trying to address with everything you just said?

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My first goal really is on some level to educate, because I take a lot of this for granted and

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I want to bring it down to a level where I don't get that response. That's very much

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a work in progress. But my one simple answer would be, is that the ideal state is you are

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running a program on your own machine that isn't phoning home or accessing internal resources

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if it doesn't need to. For instance, you can download AI models. You don't have to use

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chat GBT. Currently, if you want the nice performance, it does operate that way. But

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as far as decentralization goes, you need to make sure that the ideal, whether it's

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your own machine, your own server, or even something just run by people you trust, any

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kind of system you're using that's run by people you can't trust, can't trust, not even

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won't trust, but can't trust, will end up hurting you in the long run.

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Let's stop there for just a second. This is a topic where people in the tech space are

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going to know exactly what you meant. Just then, when you said people that you can't

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trust, not even people that you won't trust, this is a conversation that I think we should

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stop here and flesh that out simply because a lot of people may not understand it as quickly

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as you said it. I think we have the opportunity to bring more people into that conversation.

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The Bitcoiners are talking about this is trustless currency. This is money for enemies. You don't

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have to rely on a trusted third party. A lot of people hear these phrases and it takes

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a little while for these to sink in. A trusted third party is really somebody that you can't

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trust. Is that right? Is that in the ballpark of what you mean there?

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Part of what I mean about somebody you can't trust is that if you're using some kind of

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corporate site, whether it's social media, whether it's video hosting, the problem fundamentally

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is that they have an existential reason to put their interests ahead of yours. They're

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not going to fight a court order just because you'd like them not to. There are real contingencies

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that they have to have when it comes to those situations. Part of the whole ideal state

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I would draw it down to is that if you are ideally running the system yourself as an

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individual unit, though practically you may want family members involved just to remove

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some deduplication, the smaller you bring that in, the less harm these other entities

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can do to you.

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Yeah. Just to try to bridge a couple of these topics, you didn't mention cryptocurrency

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or blockchain or Bitcoin, but it sounds like these things are fundamentally linked, if

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not technologically, than in premise. Can you speak to that?

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Yes. Bitcoin is a perfect example. It itself is free software. You can download the software

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source code. You can edit the source code and run it however you like. However, there

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is a whole consensus algorithm, which is the whole point of Bitcoin. You are not going

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to just run Bitcoin with your wallet set to a million Bitcoins. You do have to stay with

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the rules of the system. This is very similar to many of these other systems because Bitcoin

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at its core is an open protocol. Open protocols are the answer here, whether it's Bitcoin,

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whether it's chat, whether it's whatever crazy systems we want to design.

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When it comes to how the crypto space overlaps with a lot of this, the honest truth is I

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personally feel like crypto has underestimated some of these problems when it comes to the

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three primary resources, storage, computing power, and bandwidth, because you need a reason

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for people to run those nodes. In my opinion, Bitcoin and Monero are the only two that have

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actually answered that question. I remember looking into some of the fancier Ethereum

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spin-offs that have a lot of the smart contracts. Smart contracts are excellent if you actually

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have value on the underlying asset, but when it's all just moving imaginary digits around,

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why not just use the US dollar? These three primary resources are important because somebody

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has to have a reason to run your nodes. If all the people running the nodes want to censor

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your transactions, they will, and there's really nothing that can stop them no matter

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what system you're using.

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You need them to be adversarial with one another.

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Right, and Bitcoin to be acting as if they are not one unit. Going back, and I was spending

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a moment processing this, and I want to slow down and hesitate here because I think that

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there is a lot for people to process. I'm actually going to go all the way back from

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the existential conflict of interest. For people who have studied economics, this is

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kind of the equivalent of the Triffin paradox, the Triffin dilemma, which is where the nation

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that runs the reserve currency has a different interest in what happens with that currency

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than everyone else in the world. That conflict of interest creates this adversarial relationship.

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What shatters that conflict of interest, that conflict of interest that may dictate, that

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snowballs into most or all of the wars of the world really, it's that schism right there.

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It's that difference between one ruler and then everybody else having to put up with

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whatever the policies are. Here, you've distinguished, and this is so important, so let's do this

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slowly. Let's unpack this. You've distinguished Bitcoin from other digital currencies and

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in particular central bank digital currencies because a lot of people lump all these together.

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I think that that is intentional. I think it's probably a Psyop to get people to not

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think of cryptocurrencies as the primary categorization, but you're stepping in and saying, no, look,

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this other aspect is the primary distinction between the categorization. We can say, hey,

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look, it's about being digital. That could be the attribute that we focus on, but you're

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saying, no, it's the open protocol. From there, you begin to be able to more clearly point

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to something like storage, the incentives over the storage system as being a crux in

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how it is that the system can operate on an economic basis.

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Yeah, and that was a big thing that fueled the block size wars in the Bitcoin community.

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Do you set a one megabyte limit to the block size so that people can run nodes on Raspberry

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Pis, or do you let it grow so that it can run more transactions per second, but then

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what happens to that storage incentive? Can you put that in plain English? At what point

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did this discussion occur? Who was having this discussion? What was this? Bitcoin Core,

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as it exists, has that limit. They later added a soft fork to raise it with a different system,

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but the gist of it is that at a certain point, I want to say around 2016, I forget when this

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was, there was a rift in the Bitcoin community, the quote unquote big blockers versus the

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small blockers. The big blockers eventually forked into Bitcoin cash, which is what some

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may be familiar with today. And that was the fundamental divide over whether Bitcoin itself

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should have large blocks or small blocks. And as far as I'm concerned, the dividing

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line was how people felt the storage economics worked. Because one of the arguments the small

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blockers had, Bitcoin Core devs themselves, was that you shouldn't record your coffee

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transaction on the global public ledger. Maybe it really should only be for important transactions.

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The challenge with this though, especially as it's worked out over time, is that Bitcoin,

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but even blockchains built on the same kind of system, they're effectively an auction

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every 10 minutes or whatever the interval is on a transaction. So the smaller it is,

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the more I would say inflexible, the more flexible the fees are. Because if you have

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a small auction and a ton of people are trying to get a transaction through within a short

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period of time, suddenly that auction can go to the roof quite quickly.

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Right. Do you need the security that you purchase in order to buy coffee in your neighborhood?

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The answer is no, it's coffee in your neighborhood. Your neighborhood businesses run on a different

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level of protocol because socially you do all know each other. If a business just begins

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to abuse people two blocks down, you find out about it, you know about it. They depend

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on their reputation within that tight geography. People don't need to worry about whether or

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not they buy their coffee directly on the Bitcoin blockchain.

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There are some other solutions bubbling up and developing to this. There's the Lightning

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Network. Yeah, there's the Lightning Network. We can set that aside for another conversation

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another day because it's not really core to what we're talking about today. But I just

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wanted to present that because for some people it's going to make another connection to something

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they may know about or partially know about. All these things I feel like I partially know

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about and every time I have these conversations, my understanding branches a little further.

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What I would say that the big mindset change that needs to happen is I initially got really

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excited about Bitcoin because I saw that computing power. I got there and I'm like Bitcoin could

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create a market incentive to democratize general computing hardware. The reason why it didn't

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is because ASICs were invented and suddenly there were specialized machines for mining

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Bitcoin and that torpedoed that dream. But I personally see self-hosting, whether it's

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the Bitcoin network, whether it's your own email server, whether it's other kinds of

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services, self-hosting provides a real reason for people to actually care about democratizing

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access to hardware.

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So maybe we can look at a couple of real world things that are going on right now. So if

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you don't mind, I'm just going to share my screen. Now, we brought up the TikTok act,

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but before we get there, I want to... Oh man, where did I hide it? Once again, too many

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windows open. So here we go. So here in Canada, I don't know, Matthew, to what degree you're

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familiar with this, but we have right now this thing going on in our government where

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they are... It's called Bill C-11 where they're attempting to, let's see, change Canada's

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broadcasting policy and give new powers to the country's broadcasting regulator, among

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other things. The idea seems to be it's going to control the internet more in terms of prioritizing

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Canadian content to help us Canadian musicians get our music out in front of audiences. And

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it's based on a similar... We've already got this for TV and radio. There has to be a certain

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proportion of Canadian content that is broadcast, but I think the idea is now they're trying

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to add that to the internet. Now, everyone I know looks at that and understands it's

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an information control mechanism. I don't think Justin Trudeau gives two craps about

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my music or any musician from Canada or otherwise. So Gabe, what insight can you give us on what's

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going on here? Well, actually, sorry, before you answer that, let me show you how this

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has impacted the tech space because Google has publicly come out and said, as it stands

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right now, this bill's not good. Now, you might be like, well, hey, Google's coming

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to our defense, except I don't trust that that's what they're doing. But what they are

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saying is because of Bill C-11, we're going to make changes to how we deliver content

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to Canadians. So it's not even strictly the government coming in and censoring or redirecting

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information. You have Google now saying, I think it's like 7% of Canadian users are now

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part of an experiment. They're now beta testing how they're going to treat Canadian users.

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And this may be related more to some of my public statements, but I know I can't post

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Google reviews anymore. So there's some weird stuff going on. Can you elaborate what is

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this Bill C-11? What the heck is going on? And then how does that relate to what we're

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talking about? I can't talk too much about the specifics of the bill, though I have listened

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to Michael Geiss podcast. He actually does a great job outlining it. He's even done an

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interview on his podcast with a senator about it as well. And the major issue here is that

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I hate to say it, it's not in a vacuum. It isn't just Canada deciding to firm up their

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internet regulations because, oh, we're behind. No, in the UK, we have their online harms

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bill where they're trying to censor online discussion. And in the EU, they're actually

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going a step further. And it's quite scary where in the EU, they have the chat control

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proposal where they want to do client side scanning because they're not going to break

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encryption, but they just want to make sure they can scan your device before you send

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anything off. What's concerning about this global push towards internet control is that

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I believe the real motivation for this is that they have realized that big tech was

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able to build a machine that could brainwash people fundamentally, whether you're right

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or left. Most people will agree this is a brainwashing machine, whether you think it's

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for good, whether you think it's for bad, whether you think it's for nobody, that's

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what it's doing. And the problem is governments across the world want that power. The problem

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is that power can only exist if the storage computing and bandwidth are all centralized

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in one place. When you have this panopticon that controls what everyone can see, hear,

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and express, they're going, both governments and corporations are going to clamor for control

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over it. And so, you know, now that I guess governments are starting to understand, oh,

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what's an algorithmic feed? Oh, you can determine what other people can see. That's what they

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want control of. They don't actually, I don't think they actually care what any of our individual

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opinions are. What they do want is the ability, like discussed in the previous rounding the

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earth discussion, is that they want the ability to hit a button. Oh, I want to talk to the

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people who care about this right now. That's what they want. And it's total control, total

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information control, total suppression. And this is why this is my mission, is that by

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understanding how this stuff actually works to a certain level, to understand how those

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three primary resources work, we can actually formulate a plan to fight back. Because if

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you distribute that communication, that, you know, control across, you know, people generally,

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they literally cannot do this.

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It's a little bit of a long road, though. Oh, yeah. We're, we take ourselves out of

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the conversation pool in these other platforms in order to participate in one that has this,

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you know, this gossip protocol, you know, this, you know, that keeps anybody from having

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the censorship button or censorship arrangement power. It really is like it's crafting a maze,

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right? That's really what they can do. Put you in a maze, put you in a maze at the monitor.

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For us to withdraw first means that we're withdrawn. It's a cost. There's a real short

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cost to pay. Yeah, it's a prisoner's dilemma. And now at some point, though, and maybe this

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is the moment, maybe the pandemic pushed so many people, you know, to the edge with censorship

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that the cost is smaller, right? When people have fewer rights, the cost is suddenly smaller.

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Well, not only that, but I would also argue that our tech hardware is so good that if

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you just want to run a basic website, it is practically impossible to keep a basic website

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offline provided people are flexible enough. And that's the challenge is while things like

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I to sorry, while things why like IPFS and different dark nets exists, the problem is

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that censorship is also a demand side problem. People have to want to look out for the alternative

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voices, the alternative view. But when it comes to actually being able to be heard,

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for at least some types of content, you can be uncensorable. For instance, I was involved

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over the summer with a bunch of people trying to figure out how to get Laura devices able

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to communicate with each other over long distances. We did a test and we can get messages, you

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know, 26 kilometers with a very cheap and expensive device. The challenge is what is

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this device? It's Laura. And we were using a system called mesh,

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Tastic, which is actually, you know, as the name implies, quite fantastic. But mesh, Tastic

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allows you to build a mesh net of nodes that can exchange really like short and simple

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messages. And this is actually a big part of why discuss things in terms of the three

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resources because they're not going to run your own network, your own Netflix on that

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network. It's for really critical, you know, short term messages. And that's how the three

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resources come into this aspect of the discussion. This system exists. It's practically uncensorable,

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but it's only suited to certain applications. Okay. So tell me if this is what Laura is.

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I've imagined for a number of years. What if I could carry around something like a Blackberry?

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And what if each of us has a Blackberry and we kind of make a mesh, a network where, I

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don't know, kind of like walkie talkies do, except everybody's already tuned in, you know,

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to the same wavelength. So we are, we're networked so long as we're within distance with each

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other. And each of us could type some sort of a message on there. And now maybe I need

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to send the message to you, Gabe. But what's going to happen is, is my device is going

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to gossip out to other devices that are going to look for, you know, closer connections

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to you until the message gets to you. Right. And now maybe that message is encrypted so

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that not everybody's reading it. It's only read when it gets to you. Well, Meshtastic

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actually does have encryption built into it. And that is kind of how it works. I suspect

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what the Laura device is, is it's literally just a small radio with a screen. And all

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what's really fancy about it is that you program it in advance with, you know, the configuration

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can be done from a smartphone because it syncs up by Bluetooth. So your smartphone talks

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to it. It talks to the other Laura devices and you can share those text messages across

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the network. The problem is, the two major problems you hit is you do actually need a,

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you know, network of connected people, you know, unless you're running all the nodes

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yourself, then that becomes a greater challenge. You do have to become a service provider at

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that point. The thing is, though, is that the other problem is that this is a public,

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you know, ban. The great thing is you can use it without a license. But the other problem

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is, is if say you're like, oh, well, everybody should use it. Not everybody needs to use

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it because it's like, well, the internet still works, you know. And it's, when it comes to

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these considerations, I brought it up as an example, is that the technology exists nowadays.

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As far as I'm concerned, it is impossible to keep any specific piece of information off

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the internet, but not necessarily content itself. You know, every piece of content is

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replaceable. And I would argue even most of the systems we use are actually quite replaceable.

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You know, whether we replace, you know, one mastodons right now, the biggest on the Fed

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reverse, but it the open protocol exists that there are other servers out there. So if there

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is some government hate boner against mastodon, there will be other systems that can still

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work within it. And I think the best thing people have going for them right now is that

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the tech is diverse, powerful, and you know, flexible enough these days that I think if

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people were willing to a cyber rebellion would go quite well.

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Interesting. Now, I think a lot of people are sitting at home though, and they're thinking,

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no, I still don't know how to participate in that cyber rebellion.

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Well, I would recommend in general, you know, part of my content is laying that out in general.

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Yeah, yeah. In fact, I was gonna ask you to do that, which is to bring back your slide

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deck. You had a list like a sort of a how to get started list. And I feel like that's

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that's one of the slides that needs to be like held up for longer. Right? Like people

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and it should be on a website somewhere like a lot of, you know, getting started is having

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a map. So land chat is handles that you're going to use to climb that wall before you

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get started climbing that wall.

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And Chad is excellent. But I would say for honestly, complete beginners, go fast.net

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is a whole lot better for what you're describing, because I can even give a bit of a tour. If

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you give me a moment, I can share that instead. There we are. Perfect. Okay, so now I'm sharing

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go fast. So for every category here, it outlines what can be done. So on the left here, it

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says browse the net safely, keep conversations private. And I actually really like some of

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the specific points they felt the need to elaborate. So I'll go to unlock your computer

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first, because that's for many people, it could be the first step, or it could be the

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last step, depending on your patience, where they advocate switching to Linux. Personally,

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I would not recommend making it your first step, I would say learn Git before you can

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go out to Linux. But that's just a personal preference if you want to dive into it. And

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they have for all of these different categories, they have an how to and you know, this as

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a qualifier of like, which is Linux the solution, and they list the different flavors and you

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know, what might work for you. And let me go to speak privately or browse probably.

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There we go. So this site itself, and one of the reasons I wanted to mention it is it

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itself is open source, you can contribute to this website. And this is actually something

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I'm considering doing is for any oversight they have, you just clone their repository

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and put a request, and you can make your changes. And this is where they talk about the basics

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of it. They have encrypted emails. They talk about XMPP, which is one of the major encrypted

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services and it's quite good. But I'll also throw up land chat up there. Just because

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that was the one I think the slide that initially got your attention. It shows you how do you

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set up a website basic, you know, get started with, you know, a web page that says hello

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world, you know, whatever this will get you there. But then it's all these services. How

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do you run this service? You know, this,

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Go back, go back up to the list, just because, okay, like, you know, this, in these conversations,

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I think what gets a lot of people scared of technology is moving past that list too quickly.

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I almost feel like, like, it would be a worthwhile exercise to like, you know, focus in on that

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list, and just like put that list on the screen, and then just play like, you know, like relaxing,

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like, you know, music in the background, and, you know, you know, turn on your favorite

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tunes, and have people do whatever they want, whatever, just like keep that list up just

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to just to know, just to drive into just to drive into people's minds. There's a checklist.

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It's really like, and I'm saying this partially because I'm in the middle of like putting

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together an article on, you know, what are the things that you need to do to start a

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business. And it's one of those things that seems to carrier to people that it really

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is. But for any one thing that you do in life that is like that, you know, once you've done

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it once you know, it's not that big of a deal. And yet and yet approaching it, approaching

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it, that's, that's the hardest thing is getting started. And for most people, this is in a

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new, this is in a new domain. And now Gabriel has said, if we wanted to, we could have a

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cyber revolution. And the fact of the matter is 80% of the people out there going, Nope,

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Nope, Nope. You know, like I have not begun that checklist yet. And yet, as people have

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pointed out, sometimes it only takes, you know, three and a half percent to actually

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enact the revolution. And I think this is actually partially why, because the number

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of people who would actually be in that spot to choose where we go next, it's only a smaller

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percentage of people who are within that area. And not everybody needs to know, not everybody

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needs to be able to necessarily act on a level of, you know, operating within this system

398
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:41,000
at a complex level. What Gabriel has done is he's mentioned, look, they're the people

399
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:46,900
who are going to use Bash and interface directly with Linux. Those are going to be the coders

400
00:39:46,900 --> 00:39:51,980
out there. Those are going to be the people who do this for a living. And Gabriel is a

401
00:39:51,980 --> 00:39:57,880
technologist for a living, right? And then they're going to be those people for whom

402
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:03,880
they may, they may never again want to use a command prompt. Because the fact of the

403
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:09,320
matter is that's not what they're doing with their daily life and their time. So I wanted

404
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:15,280
to lay that out because I want users not to feel like this is just, this is a terrifying

405
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:20,680
thing that they would just be pulled through, right? We get pulled through terrifying things

406
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:27,640
so often. The problem is when we're terrified of them, then you have the one central group

407
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:33,160
that can come and pull everyone through all at once and there's no choice to the matter.

408
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:40,400
Whereas if we orient ourselves along with that portion of the technologists who believe

409
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:48,320
in freedom and decentralized power, where we all have a voice as to how the system evolves

410
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:55,920
and operates, then, you know, that is, well, that's the question. Do you want liberty or

411
00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:02,600
not? And that's why it is that it's important to begin at this square one, square one. And

412
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:07,680
Gabriel's one of the people with a sword. And, and, you know, I wanted to stop and have

413
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,480
that aside with the checklist on the screen. That's my hypnotic music. I'm going to let

414
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:12,480
you go, Gabe.

415
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:17,680
Yeah, no, I think that's an excellent point. And, you know, part of the biggest problems

416
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,000
people have, especially when it comes to this is, well, where do you start? And I would

417
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,880
say having a website is a good place to start, whether it's a simple, you know, something

418
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:29,520
you maintain by hand or whether you, you know, even just get, get some managed WordPress

419
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:34,120
hosting. The honest truth is that people need, in my opinion, like you say, it doesn't have

420
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,720
to be every single person, but at least, you know, one in 10 would go a long way if people

421
00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:42,840
had their own platforms, because my primary motivation in getting started during the plandemonium

422
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:48,280
was I'm like, we could have made censorship impossible. Now, it would require constant

423
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,960
effort, not like, oh, we did it. We sponsored censorship forever. You know, it does take

424
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:58,240
a consistent level of effort. But the thing is, is that I believe there are two major

425
00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:03,000
problems. One, like you said, you labeled a certain segment of the population, those

426
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:08,320
of us with the tech skills, and hopefully the desire to make some of this happen. But

427
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,560
the problem is, is if we don't really have users, you know, if I'm like, if I'm not getting

428
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,400
my friends and family on these systems, you know, whatever I hate to say it, all I am

429
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:20,240
is just one guy hiding alone. Ooh, I'm not on Facebook. I've saved the world. No, you

430
00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:24,680
haven't saved anyone if you're just saving your own mind. And then all your friends are

431
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:29,880
on TikTok and Twitter or whatever, getting brainwashed by the system. You need, I'll

432
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,960
have to say that this is kind of tough talk for the techies, but you do need to figure

433
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:40,120
out how to provide services to an enterprise level for at least a small user base. And,

434
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:44,680
you know, personally to my, I have my own limitations, but that's the thing standard.

435
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:49,000
I think we should get people to at least think about accessing. If you're a relatively technical

436
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:54,160
person and you think you have the resources and the skill to provide enterprise level

437
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:59,000
services, why not do it for your friends and family? Think of all the thing hassle you

438
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,760
could save if instead of the system brainwashing them, Oh, everybody's communicating with each

439
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,840
other and there's not this extra hassle. You know, most people, the biggest problem they

440
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,260
have is, Oh, I don't want to install another app and install another app, which is why

441
00:43:11,260 --> 00:43:16,560
I'm in love with these open services because then it doesn't matter if somebody's on Mastodon,

442
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,200
somebody's on MISC, somebody's on Playoma. Everybody's instances can all talk to each

443
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:24,320
other and that's, you know, my server people talk to your server people, you know, it all

444
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:25,320
works.

445
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,560
Right. And I just want to point this out. I've been suspicious of this the entire time

446
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:35,860
during the pandemic. Okay. So censorship started and then there was sort of a, a migration

447
00:43:35,860 --> 00:43:41,280
to these different platforms, gab and getter and, and truth social and whatever. And, and

448
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:46,360
the more it happened and the more that I saw the way that some people were made social

449
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:51,640
media famous due to their censorship, the more I felt like it was a controlled operation

450
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:58,000
that really and truly that when you look at it, what you have is this map and you have

451
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:05,240
the town square and then you have the ghetto, you know, and you have different ghettos and

452
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:10,980
you farm people into these ghettos and back again at times, according to the conversation

453
00:44:10,980 --> 00:44:15,280
that you want to have and when do you want to have it? And this has resulted in their

454
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:21,400
being too few nodes. Yeah. Right. I called them sometimes the 800 pound gorillas of the

455
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:27,200
medical freedom movement, but, you know, almost all of them, not, not all of them necessarily.

456
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:32,920
Like, you know, RFK junior was sort of already around at the very beginning. And so it's,

457
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:38,080
it's not necessarily the case that he, that he, you know, aimed at being an 800 pound

458
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:44,120
gorilla node, but I think that everybody should look at all of the, the mega nodes in the

459
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:50,680
graph that is the medical freedom movement and think about how it is that our attention

460
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:56,120
could have been arranged around them and what that means. And this, this is different. This

461
00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:02,960
keeps that from being as powerful and for there possibly being any sort of psychological operation

462
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:10,000
around, you know, those, those centers, right? Because any one of them, maybe their messaging

463
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:15,920
is actually being controlled by Google or, or, or by the Canadian government.

464
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:23,880
And you know, sorry, I'll let you go, Liam. No, no, go for it. And then I want to introduce

465
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:29,280
the next part of this, I think. Okay. Well, because the thing I found funny is that during

466
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,280
the planet ammonium, a lot of people were saying, oh, they're going to shut down the

467
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,800
internet, they're going to shut down the internet and knowing what I knew and where I was kind

468
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,560
of going through this process of trying to get this stuff written down so that people

469
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:45,400
can hopefully understand it was that we aren't using the internet well enough for them to

470
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,360
bother shutting it down. You know, as far as I'm concerned, none of us are doing our

471
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:53,880
jobs to use the internet effectively, that it's seriously a problem for them. It's working

472
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:59,040
perfectly as a brainwashing machine. And so part of my goal is to teach people how to

473
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,480
use the internet in a way that will make them want to shut it down.

474
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:07,080
Boom, you just defined, you just defined the level deeper in the SIOP. You're absolutely

475
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:12,520
right. It is working so well for them as a brainwashing machine. The idea that they would

476
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:18,520
shut it down is total absurdity. Now, there is some possibility. I mean, obviously, yeah,

477
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:26,520
like if an asteroid hits the earth, you know, people are going to lose power, right?

478
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:32,080
And we are seeing this sort of economic decoupling of the world. But to the extent possible,

479
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:38,640
they want to maintain that that drip, drip, drip of their own information channels, you

480
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:43,640
know, packet stream to your home. They do a pretty good job controlling it. That that's

481
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,640
spot on.

482
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:52,200
Okay. So, Matthew, you brought up the really good point of, you know, sort of people thought

483
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:58,880
leaders as almost nodes in this system. But so and we've also talked about how there was

484
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:06,840
this exodus from Facebook and from, you know, Twitter at first, certainly. I myself basically

485
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:12,700
left all of those platforms, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, in part because they've straight

486
00:47:12,700 --> 00:47:18,800
up started threatening to report people for domestic terrorism, which is really obscene.

487
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:23,800
That was a real program that they rolled out in 2021, at least on Facebook, where you could

488
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:29,240
report your friends and family for extreme, you know, whatever. So it became but that's

489
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:32,800
a that's kind of another thing. Point is, I did what you were saying, Gabriel. I'm like,

490
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:37,520
I'm going to fight the system by not being on those platforms. And for a while, the idea

491
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:42,200
of being on Facebook terrified me, especially as I started to learn about the origins of

492
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:48,600
some of these companies and just what they're set up to do. But what's the result? You then

493
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:53,160
wind up Matthew, as you say, going to gab, going to get her going to parlor, some of

494
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:57,720
those companies wind up almost acting like traps where if you're on parlor, depending

495
00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:03,960
on when you're there, now you're a white supremacist just by being on there. Okay, so then you

496
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:15,200
start to get platforms like rumble, come up, which are talked about as being the, you know,

497
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:20,840
the censorship free the free speech, the alternative to YouTube. And I want to use rumble as an

498
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:27,520
example, I'm going to pull up, I did a bit of research, I finally, I had this itch, I

499
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:32,400
really wanted to know, I knew, in the case of rumble, there were there were people or

500
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:37,000
companies behind it that made a couple people nervous. And it's one of those things I just

501
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:44,040
didn't want to think about. So yesterday, I finally thought about it. So rumble before

502
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:48,400
its IPO, so it's now it is now a publicly traded company. And we'll get to some of those

503
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:54,640
stockholders. But before its IPO, did you know that Peter Thiel was one of the three

504
00:48:54,640 --> 00:49:01,920
big investors in it? I think Whitney Webb mentioned that. Matthew, did you know that?

505
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:08,320
I've heard it. It's not necessarily on the top of my mind every day. But yeah, that's

506
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:15,480
right. And neither is it on mine. And the other two are this one called Colt Ventures.

507
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:21,560
They're big into bio pharma, biotech, you know, some of the same companies, you know,

508
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:32,200
Alnolam is is a gene therapy focused company. Some some interesting focus in their portfolio,

509
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,960
really primarily on pharmaceuticals, you know, which gets my red flags going up. And then

510
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:43,680
the other one was Narya, which same same here, they've got some some therapeutics they like

511
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:49,160
to invest in. So that that's that. And I think Whitney, in particular, you're right, has

512
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:56,320
sort of been early on being skeptical of rumble. So okay, but that's fine. After the IPO.

513
00:49:56,320 --> 00:50:04,560
If I could put a pin in that, this is the prisoners dilemma, right? Yeah, do you like,

514
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:11,240
it may be that the same people who would be invested in the pharmaceutical companies would

515
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:19,120
want there to be an out, right? Because that that gives people the possibility of paying

516
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:26,280
the cost to try to to get out of the prisoners dilemma to try to to exit whatnot. And if

517
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:31,640
you have that, it's sort of it's a short term delta, it's a short term change in the system

518
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:36,360
that removes those people from the discussion that's happening in the broader arena. And

519
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:43,480
they're more likely to do it. If they're more likely to do it, if something new is available.

520
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:49,080
So you make that available right at the most important critical moment in history.

521
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:56,040
It could be wonderful. I will, I will say though, like from from the perspective of

522
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:00,720
the three primary resources, what rumble is giving you as a creator is they're giving

523
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:05,720
you a easy to configure server that has a ton of bandwidth and a ton of storage right

524
00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:10,440
away. Fundamentally, I do think when it comes to solving this problem, you do need people

525
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:16,160
within their own circles somehow to acquire and share those resources. And that's the

526
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:20,120
only way you're going to unseat something like rumble. Fundamentally, though, these

527
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:25,240
services will always exist, there will always be greater concentrations of, you know, these

528
00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:30,320
resources together, simply because that's how the economies of scale works. And in my

529
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:34,280
opinion, this is kind of why I blame, you know, the audiences a bit, because you do

530
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:38,280
need to be flexible enough to switch from one service to another. You know, as you say,

531
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:43,200
you know, people were kind of like nudged into one service or another. But if people

532
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:47,000
were really flexible enough that it's like, oh, I don't care where this is coming from.

533
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:52,560
That's a win and it's on its own right. Absolutely. And and and you you just went where I want

534
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:57,480
to go as the next step before we get there, because the other part is, oh, okay, well,

535
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,800
so you've got this Peter Thiel guy. And by the way, Peter Thiel, to be clear, for those

536
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:05,200
who don't know, we won't go in a deep dive. But he, as far as I'm concerned, is in the

537
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:12,480
same category as, you know, Elon Musk, Sergey Brin, Jeff Bezos, like they are the same class.

538
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:17,160
In fact, they a lot of those guys come from this PayPal mafia. So my point is, there's

539
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:22,040
an initial set of information you should have about who's who's, you know, originating these

540
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:28,000
companies. But of course, it went public. And now there's this there's this there's

541
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:33,040
this revolution in my own mind, I went through about a year and a half ago, when I learned

542
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:39,000
for the first time, that all of the biggest companies in the world are owned by the same

543
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:44,540
basically top three companies, those being BlackRock, Vanguard, and State Street, I think,

544
00:52:44,540 --> 00:52:48,600
and that they all own each other. And therefore, you've got this sort of corporate mafia that

545
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:53,640
runs everything. Now, that's sort of obvious. But it was a very big transition point for

546
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:59,200
me in my understanding and seeing the graphs and you know, Coca Cola and Pepsi basically,

547
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:04,500
you know, imagine thinking they actually care which of the two you prefer Coke or Pepsi.

548
00:53:04,500 --> 00:53:09,880
So what my point is, yeah, you probably at this point, don't think rumble falls in that

549
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:16,000
category. But there's this wonderful tool, Yahoo Finance, which lists the top 10, you

550
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:22,640
know, institutional stakeholders and stakeholders, stakeholders in a fairly easy, shakedown holders,

551
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:29,720
excuse me. Anyway, here they are. The this is not in order. This is an alphabetical order.

552
00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:33,840
BlackRock, Cantor Fitzgerald, Commonwealth Equity Services, David Sachs, who's another

553
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:39,360
big tech investor, Geode Capital Management, Invesco, Platform Technology Partners, Royal

554
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:47,240
Bank of Canada, Susquehanna International Group, Matthew and Vanguard. Thoughts?

555
00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:55,880
Well, I'm thinking through Susquehanna. Of course, I worked there for for about a year.

556
00:53:55,880 --> 00:54:03,940
It's run by Jeff Gaz. I do know that just just having seen, you know, various things

557
00:54:03,940 --> 00:54:13,440
over time, he is one of the largest donors to Republican political campaigns. But I don't

558
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:18,600
know. I mean, he interviewed me, but I don't know like so much about him personally that

559
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:25,400
I can that I have like a real, real strong opinion on what that that means, except that,

560
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:30,800
OK, you know, there's investment. And I was, you know, and even before that, I was going

561
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:36,520
to mention you could imagine a pool of investors. You know, what I said about rumble being something

562
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:43,240
that could be sort of a short term trap. Once something like rumble exists, you can imagine

563
00:54:43,240 --> 00:54:50,360
there being two types of investors, good actors and bad actors in the same pool. And each

564
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:56,560
of them would want influence over how the tool is used. So to me, I'm not sure how much

565
00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:01,920
time we should spend going down a list like this, except to point out that there are that,

566
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:06,840
you know, like BlackRock and Vanguard, like there's so much heft to those organizations

567
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:12,980
that that it's important to realize that they are in the pool. But otherwise, to realize

568
00:55:12,980 --> 00:55:19,480
that the platform has gone into a similar realm, it's achieved another level of notoriety

569
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:25,120
or acceptance. Gabriel, you know, like you were saying, it's now become this, you know,

570
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:30,240
the scaling up of a service. You will eventually wind up, whether it is BlackRock or Vanguard,

571
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:34,380
you know, in 20, 30, 100 years, there will be an equivalent, you know, big financial

572
00:55:34,380 --> 00:55:41,520
powerhouse that will seek out the next good business opportunity and and and buy it. So,

573
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:46,800
Matthew, you're right. In that sense, this itself doesn't have to mean more than this

574
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:52,680
platform isn't just as you know, this small new competitive that's come out, it's become

575
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:59,000
something else. And notice well, that I wasn't aware they had actually acquired locals, but

576
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:04,520
locals is now a subsidiary of rumble. So that's something else too, is the consolidation of

577
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,440
services. And yet,

578
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:14,000
in some way, but I wasn't sure what the relationship was. Yeah, I thought it was a like a license

579
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:20,600
it like a sharing of the video infrastructure. But no, it's it's more intense than that.

580
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:27,280
But this goes to what you were saying, Gabe, this, I think this doesn't then mean we should

581
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:34,440
now stop using rumble. No, that would be absurd, because it provides a fantastic service that

582
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:40,200
maybe and maybe you could elaborate on this. This doesn't solve all our problems. It is

583
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:46,780
a tool in what needs to be a very large toolbox. Am I right?

584
00:56:46,780 --> 00:56:50,360
So there's there's a challenge here because Matthew point out pointed out the prisoners

585
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:55,920
dilemma where you can either withdraw from the conversation and not be, you know, exposed

586
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:01,080
to the brainwashing machine, so to speak, or you participate in the hopes of reaching

587
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:05,880
people within that system. So I would say, you know, using rumble to the degree you are

588
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:11,120
trying to communicate with the rumble audience is important. But as we've already discussed,

589
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:15,520
you know, that people are being moved in certain directions. So from a, you know, outreach

590
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:21,080
perspective, you would want basically to have a highly specialized person in each silo,

591
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:26,040
you would have a Facebook, you know, spokesperson, you would have a rumble spokesperson, and

592
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:31,240
those would be ideally, you know, very popular content on those platforms. The problem is,

593
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:36,160
is that I, you know, the reason why that logo there you see on my my thing is, is the Libra

594
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:40,840
Solutions Networks logo is three interlocking shields, as I'm like, we need to protect each

595
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:46,720
other. You know, you shouldn't put your personal family photos or videos on YouTube or rumble

596
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:51,880
anyways, those should be private within the family. And so just like a family would have,

597
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:57,040
you know, a private collection, you may also want private digital infrastructure within

598
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:00,040
your trusted network. And that's really the core of my message.

599
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:04,840
And yeah, and that that's, that's, and that's, oh, gosh, I mean, there are a lot of important

600
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:09,320
aspects of this conversation. But that's the one that's going to pierce a lot of families,

601
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:13,120
a lot of people are going to understand this better and better people already. I mean,

602
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:16,720
people have been questioning whether or not we should put that much information on social

603
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:23,680
media already for years and years. And I sometimes cringe, like I love to see my my friends'

604
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:28,600
children, you know, especially the ones like, you know, I've known them, you know, like

605
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:33,880
I was around them while they were pregnant, you know, like I love seeing my friends' children

606
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:40,640
pop up on social media. You know, cute pictures of puppies and law cats, too, you know, like

607
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:45,960
all that stuff. You know, just a little snippet of like being in somebody's home when you

608
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,280
can't always do that. Right. So

609
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:52,840
see, but the funny thing is, a lot of that doesn't have to go away, because you could

610
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:54,040
just run a soapbox.

611
00:58:54,040 --> 00:59:02,960
Yeah, yeah. This is the invitation. This is the look you can control. You can you can

612
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:09,680
retain ownership and total control over your information and your data. And you can permission

613
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:16,560
it how you want. That will never be able to happen if you don't have open if you don't

614
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:22,080
have free software, free software and the resources to run it. It cannot happen. That

615
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:30,800
is the Faustian bargain right there. Right. That's the that's the cheap versus free.

616
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:36,680
Exactly. Now, you're you're this is fantastic. I wrote down private digital infrastructure

617
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:41,640
like family photos treat similarly like this is now starting to form in my head, like the

618
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:47,960
ways in which I could begin to use this in my own life.

619
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:52,720
There's so now specific questions start to come up, for example, will Edmiston in our

620
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:58,320
room or locals chat asks, what's a good photo app for private and easily displayable photo

621
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:04,920
sharing? Has that been has that been figured out? Well, the funny thing is, there's a million

622
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:09,320
different ways to do specific things off the top of my head just because of what I've I've

623
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:16,120
used. You can use Nextcloud, which is your own kind of normie friendly cloud solution

624
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:20,040
and throw your photos on there. And I think it has some useful features like you can share

625
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:24,400
a link, you know, say you want to give a one off photo to one person. But, you know, the

626
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:30,760
Fediverse has a lot of these options as well, where like you'd they have a Instagram clone

627
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:35,800
instance called Pixel Fed, and you could use Pixel Fed for just if your goal is just to

628
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:39,760
share photos, that's a good one to build for that. But you don't have to use the Fediverse

629
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:44,800
for everything, you know, being able to create your own private website can do that as well.

630
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:48,960
You know, there are so many different options where if you just have the control of your

631
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:53,720
own digital infrastructure, the options are endless. It's just how you want to set it

632
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:58,160
up because you get to be the master of how those are used. You can install a server that

633
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:02,280
does something differently or another, you know, it could just be a simple, you know,

634
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:07,000
website that all here's all the photos, or it could be this super complicated, you know,

635
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:12,280
all perfectly tagged, you know, collection, though I'll admit, I don't know much about

636
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,920
which would be the the perfectly curated collection, I'm sure there exists.

637
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:21,880
I just have to say for the sake of conversation, we need to come up with a better phrase than

638
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:29,680
normie friendly. We need a better term than normie because it is that so fishbowling,

639
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:38,440
you know, I mean, like, my dad on board. Yeah. May as well out by affiliation. This because

640
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:44,760
we are in fishbowls, right. And we're trying to figure out how not to be in some sense.

641
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:52,320
But but also, they get to, you know, it's a social I don't know that. Well, I'd argue

642
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:57,560
the language is, you know, first before it even happens in the protocols. But they catch

643
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:01,480
us that way. It is so easy, though, right. Like in our conversations and our private

644
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:07,640
conversations, it's the easiest, simplest way to make people everybody understand at

645
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:11,520
once. Well, I would argue, you know, the only way

646
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:16,240
I've noticed to really get out of the fishbowl is with your extended relatives and family,

647
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:19,880
because you have no control over what you know, brainwashing they may or may not have

648
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:26,040
been a part of. And really, that's how you grow throughout at least somewhat organic

649
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:35,360
channel of communication. I don't know. OK, maybe now is a good time to move into this

650
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:41,920
tick tock situation. I am once again going to try to locate a very specific tab out of

651
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:48,960
hundreds. A, B, C, D. There it is. So I heard about this yesterday. So look, so here's here's

652
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:55,840
some background as I understand it. Tick tock is in fact a platform based out of China.

653
01:02:55,840 --> 01:03:01,280
I believe ByteDance is that the parent company. And the way that as far as I understand the

654
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:06,120
way that it works in China, it's a little different, at least in theory, than it works

655
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:12,960
in the Western world. Basically, everything is is affiliated with the Chinese government,

656
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:17,080
essentially like the way that the infrastructure is set up. And maybe that's fine. Maybe it's

657
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:24,760
not. Point is, there are genuine concerns about the widespread mass adoption of this

658
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:30,720
like for all the same reasons that we should be skeptical of all the other social media

659
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:34,960
platforms. I'm not saying they're not doing everything tick tock is doing, but tick tock

660
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:40,600
in particular has this added aspect of being potentially a surveillance tool, a tool to

661
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:46,240
manipulate from the Chinese government. So that's the premise. Then you have these social

662
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:53,920
aspects of it's just particularly salient among young people. And there's some weird

663
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:58,400
stuff going on with what kind of content our kids getting from this thing. So look, I think

664
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:03,320
we're all more or less on the same page about this. There have been previous talks about,

665
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:09,080
I think in in, in the States, the first discussion of banning tick tock might have been like

666
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:15,780
2017 2018 under President Trump. I think in Canada, there was talk of maybe even just

667
01:04:15,780 --> 01:04:21,360
a couple of months ago, making it so government officials in Canada were not allowed to have

668
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:25,960
tick tock on their phone. So there's there's a long several year history of this. But now

669
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:31,760
what's happened is the introduction of a bill that is entirely focused on either on banning

670
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:36,880
tick tock or otherwise responding to the tick tock problem. But am I right, Gabe, that that's

671
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:39,000
not what it seems.

672
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:44,320
Well, the biggest challenge I find is that, like we've said, they've they've built this

673
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:49,720
big, you know, mind control infrastructure, and they want control over fundamentally.

674
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:54,080
It's they're lying on the table, even if they were totally benign. And you know, this was

675
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:59,400
all for the good of people. Grabbing that hammer makes everything look like a nail.

676
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:03,520
And the problem with a lot of these bills is like somebody I think it was the Mises

677
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:08,160
Caucus pointed out that the verbiage in the restrict act literally says they want to stop

678
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:13,520
any transaction that undermines national security, whatever this could be a full blown Patriot

679
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:19,040
Act 2.0. And the problem is, the reason why I think internet regulation plays so well

680
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:23,320
right now is because you have part of the power structure being like, oh, yeah, you

681
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:27,520
know, censorship really saved our asses in the pandemic. Imagine if misinformation was

682
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:31,760
even more extreme. And so now there's like tons of money flowing in that direction. And

683
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:36,320
the biggest problem I see with a lot of this stuff is that even if, you know, people don't

684
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:40,560
want to admit that there's a big coordinated plan, the problem is an open auction effectively

685
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:45,040
is that when there's a ton of money pouring into controlling people's minds, people are

686
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:50,900
going to figure out ways to get together and do it. And the legislatively, I'm more concerned

687
01:05:50,900 --> 01:05:55,080
over what they're going to stop people from doing because we can all leave TikTok, but

688
01:05:55,080 --> 01:06:00,800
we can't leave them doing another Patriot Act kind of thing.

689
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:07,680
I don't know enough about TikTok specifically. I've never been on TikTok myself. I've seen

690
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:14,200
TikTok videos, of course. You know, it's hard to have a computer not have seen TikTok videos.

691
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:17,680
So I'm going to ask this question, and I don't know if either of you can answer this for

692
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:28,240
me. Would you say that per account, attention on TikTok is more or less centralized?

693
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:30,240
Attention?

694
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:38,040
Right. Like, sometimes I see like videos that have gotten a million views on TikTok. You

695
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:43,640
know, on Twitter, that's more likely to happen to the same account over and over and over

696
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:44,640
again.

697
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:45,800
Oh, I see.

698
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:51,360
Every tweet from certain people, once they get the fall, once it's, you know, they're

699
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:56,360
in it. I think that these circles form where everybody promotes each other's tweets and

700
01:06:56,360 --> 01:07:01,400
everybody has a certain degree of fame themselves. And it sort of creates sort of supernodes.

701
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:06,360
I think the medical freedom movement has clusters of sort of supernodes where everybody pushes

702
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:15,280
everybody's out. In fact, I think that's actually part of what's appealing about Carolina Bonita

703
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:19,520
to a lot of people in the medical freedom movement is that she brings that understanding

704
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:24,120
as to how to orchestrate that. And that's why people are sort of hush hush about the

705
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:29,840
conversation about, you know, the truck full of guns and, you know, you know, conflicts

706
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:38,000
that she's had and questions about a lot of her behavior. But I guess more of what I'm

707
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:44,160
asking is, is TikTok a place that let's say that the U.S. government or powerful business

708
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:51,360
interests want to be able to control people's thoughts? Are they better able to do it through

709
01:07:51,360 --> 01:08:00,200
TikTok or less well able to do it? As in, does, you know, the average account wind up

710
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:07,480
getting more attention than the supernodes? Well, I would say the big thing is that in

711
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:12,440
some ways we have seen proof that it does centralize attention because what it, you

712
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:18,340
know, shorts the short video format went viral across all the other platform. Then YouTube

713
01:08:18,340 --> 01:08:22,280
had it, then, you know, Instagram integrated and then Facebook, you know, they've all copied

714
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:26,180
that mechanism. Now I openly speculate it's because, oh, they figured out how long people's

715
01:08:26,180 --> 01:08:31,280
attention span currently is. But the sad truth of the matter is, is what I'm more scared

716
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:35,160
about when it comes to TikTok. Yes, it's a smartphone app and smartphones are, you know,

717
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:38,960
have a whole bunch of their own issues. But the thing is, is we've already seen TikTok

718
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:45,640
apply basically like not very transparent filters over the content. And so as a silly

719
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:49,040
example here, you know, everybody remembers a Snapchat dog, you know, girls would have

720
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:53,140
this silly dog with the ears, you know, whatever. But the thing is, it would be obvious there's

721
01:08:53,140 --> 01:08:58,080
a filter running over that. I have seen a handful of TikTok examples here of our some

722
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:03,560
woman, you know, in, you know, relatively normal shape, you know, not like supermodel,

723
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:10,280
not like, you know, super offensive. But the thing is, is the TikTok app itself will alter

724
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:15,040
how it looks in real time, not in, you know, just to the viewers, but also to the person

725
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:19,320
recording it. When you are looking into your camera to through TikTok, you are not even

726
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:23,800
looking at yourself. You are looking at what TikTok wants you to look like. And it's actually

727
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:26,800
quite extreme. I've seen, you know, those where they hold it up close to their phone.

728
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:30,840
So you see it pop in and out. It is actually quite extreme. Suddenly you're giving people

729
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:35,960
control over self image. You don't give people control over projected image, but also you're

730
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:39,600
giving somebody else control over your mirror.

731
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:44,060
And the thing I'm most worried about, truthfully, when it comes to this is we know where the

732
01:09:44,060 --> 01:09:49,000
technology of, you know, text generation, AI, you know, media generation, whether it's

733
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:53,280
text, whether it's audio, whether it's video, they can do that in real time now. So now

734
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:57,680
when somebody gives, you know, video, a live stream or whatever, it's the whole, is anything

735
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:02,440
real, you know, they can change it, whether it's video, audio, whether it's, you know,

736
01:10:02,440 --> 01:10:04,760
the whole shebang can be manipulated.

737
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:10,640
Okay, okay. I want to stop here. I want to think about this. This is enormous right here.

738
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:17,640
Like this, this point about controlling the mirror. So I always get, I always get my mythological

739
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:22,740
stories a little bit wrong. So help me out if I, if I make a mistake here. The story

740
01:10:22,740 --> 01:10:32,560
of Narcissa, the story of Narcissa is that Narcissa's, there was some sort of like a,

741
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:40,880
like a sort of a bargain curse where Narcissa's was cursed to never know himself. Right. That

742
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:49,920
was the story. And, and then, and then even like, and the test was echo, you know, this,

743
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:55,960
this beautiful woman whom, you know, could have been part of Narcissa's life, you know,

744
01:10:55,960 --> 01:11:06,960
echo could call out, but Narcissa could not even, you know, reflect off of echo to be

745
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:13,480
able to then observe himself. Right. That would break the curse to know him, his own

746
01:11:13,480 --> 01:11:20,600
self to be able to, you know, incorporate somebody else into their life and therefore

747
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:27,840
have their perspective. And, and, and this is the story of narcissism, right? It's something

748
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:36,120
that, that is, is a molded thing that can happen to somebody. And, and, you know, people

749
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:40,680
point out sometimes like, you know, Western society or US culture in particular is like

750
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:47,040
the most narcissistic, narcissistic society ever to exist. I think that that warning should

751
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:55,640
be, there is the most pressure toward not knowing yourself than there has ever been.

752
01:11:55,640 --> 01:12:02,140
And that, that pointing this out, this content filtration, if someone else controls not you,

753
01:12:02,140 --> 01:12:10,400
they control the level of your narcissistic madness. I don't know how well I said that,

754
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:17,880
but I'm trying to meander through here. I think you're bang on in the sense that this

755
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:23,440
doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. People have horribly underestimated how much

756
01:12:23,440 --> 01:12:28,800
big tech has been able to influence people over time. And, you know, regardless of how

757
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:32,600
people feel about TikTok, I will warn that it is the state of the art of whatever this

758
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:45,840
machine is. Right. So, okay. But now the, maybe what you said about, so there's language

759
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:50,240
in the, like, so I haven't gone through it myself. I heard Barnes, Robert Barnes, Viva

760
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:56,880
Barnes law, dot locals dot com, talk about it yesterday, where, or two days ago, where,

761
01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:03,640
as you say, Patriot Act 2.0. And, and that meme has already spread. Like, I don't think

762
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:08,760
there's many, I think people are aware something's up with this bill and aware of the premise

763
01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:14,720
that things get hidden in these bills and hidden behind fun names like the restrict

764
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:22,280
act. So it's not just that this bill would allow new powers to restrict social media

765
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:26,360
or, or, you know, it's not just TikTok, it's social media, but it's not just social media,

766
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:30,720
it's transactions. And the timing of that is really interesting, of course, because

767
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:37,880
as we started the conversation with, there's this entire worldwide changeover happening

768
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:45,200
in the financial system that seems to have started in earnest with the FTX nonsense and

769
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:49,840
everything that's happened since then. And it's now happening with actual banks. You

770
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:54,960
have the rollout of the Federal Reserve's FedNow system, which, as I understand it,

771
01:13:54,960 --> 01:14:03,120
is not itself a central bank digital currency, but it is like an instant liquidity, you know,

772
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:09,160
transactional platform that is the infrastructure required for a central bank digital currency.

773
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:13,760
And then you have all of these other, like the banks that are being targeted by this,

774
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:23,160
either genuine bank runs or sort of arbitrary closure by the banking regulators, them being

775
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:28,200
crypto friendly banks and this having knock on effects on on various cryptocurrencies.

776
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:34,880
Point is, there's this entire changeover that seems to be happening in a way that that seems

777
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:42,400
to tie together information control and financial control using the same underlying technology.

778
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:46,800
I don't know, could you speak to am I onto something here? Am I right to think that the

779
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:52,440
timing of this bill, even though it's hidden under the context of a TikTok ban, could there

780
01:14:52,440 --> 01:14:58,360
be something else going on there? Well, I assume that the technocracy, because

781
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:02,960
I wrote a series called the tools of the technocracy that kind of touches on the technological

782
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:08,760
side of it. I see they have the same, you know, bandwidth computing power storage issue

783
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:14,160
that we do. Fundamentally, they have to store all those, you know, communications they intercept

784
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:19,840
one way or another. And I think one of the better points made I've seen made by different

785
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:25,120
commentators is that what's the real fight right now is, yeah, it's all going to be through

786
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,720
a CBDC and, you know, that's that's going to be a whole lot of stuff. But the problem

787
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:32,360
is are the retail banks and the retail, you know, financial institutions, are they going

788
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:36,600
to be just getting the surveillance job? Are they going to be the ones deciding, oh, that

789
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:41,480
person did a bad, so they're getting censored? And I think part of the rub right now is that

790
01:15:41,480 --> 01:15:45,960
with some of the automated tools that exist right now, I don't think they're even sure

791
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:51,120
how that's going to fundamentally shake up when I hate to say it, if you don't care that

792
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:56,760
much about, you know, getting the details right, you can automate it, use AI. And if

793
01:15:56,760 --> 01:16:00,920
things go wrong, since you control the system, you can just reverse it. That's not really

794
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:06,440
the concern. And so I think the power has always been gradually ramping up and that

795
01:16:06,440 --> 01:16:12,240
these stages in the system is really more what they can do to get that extra bit of,

796
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:16,840
you know, leverage in the legislative sense. You know, these laws will say we can do X.

797
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:21,840
And the problem is nobody stops to think, hey, maybe they don't have a right to do that.

798
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:26,760
And this is why I kind of emphasize self-hosting, because if people run their own services,

799
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:31,640
fundamentally, that'll fall under free speech and some case law somewhere. And if we can't

800
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:35,600
defend, oh, this guy's running his own server that's, you know, communicating with his family

801
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:40,520
or whatever, it's all lost anyways. And so I do think there are important battles to

802
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:46,200
fight. And I would personally not rush to defend, you know, TikTok per se. But the problem

803
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:50,480
with all of these bills, whether it's chat control, whether it's the UK harms bill, whether

804
01:16:50,480 --> 01:16:57,000
it's this TikTok ban, is they are all fundamentally giving this information control system over

805
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:59,640
to a different power that built it.

806
01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:08,240
Yeah. And it's a matter of who is centralizing and controlling that power. I'm always, you

807
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:14,760
know, skeptical of further centralizing any of those control levers. But in this case,

808
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:22,280
there's sort of a blame China aspect to it. Right now, we're seeing Sino-Western relations

809
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:29,000
deteriorating pretty rapidly. It seems like every story in the West has some sort of embedded

810
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:35,480
narrative of, you know, we're in this fight with China, right? We're in the struggle for

811
01:17:35,480 --> 01:17:42,800
control of global hegemony or something like that. And it could just be used as an excuse

812
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:48,160
for power levers. Right. But I don't think so. I think, you know, in the past, historically,

813
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:52,320
when you had competing nations and you had policies that weren't necessarily optimal,

814
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:57,280
but were specific to that nation, you could sort of just bury it in history. You know,

815
01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:02,560
everybody could just sort of like roll their eyes, go, well, it was in context of a war.

816
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:06,240
Now in the modern age, where nobody forgets anything because of the internet, if they

817
01:18:06,240 --> 01:18:12,120
really want to hold on to it, be able to hold it up again and make everybody remember it.

818
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:18,360
It's governance without principle like that becomes a different thing. It begins to appear

819
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:26,040
as though that the republic has been smashed. John Titus does a good job laying that out

820
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:30,160
just from like the money side of it. He's like, yeah, you know, they've ignored, they've

821
01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:34,360
let the criminals get off free. So like we like to him, it's like we're a post constitutional

822
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:38,600
state. The thing is, is what scares me a bit is that it's global. You know, we exist on

823
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:44,720
a planet that we don't understand the governance structure for. How do you find that out?

824
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:50,200
Right. There's this question right now as to whether or not, you know, people are trying

825
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:54,960
to destroy the government. And I just keep thinking, like, I have not believed for a

826
01:18:54,960 --> 01:19:01,920
very long time. And I know that I'm in the small minority here, but I believe since I

827
01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:09,200
was a teenager that the world was not being governed the way that we were told. And that,

828
01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:13,840
you know, this idea that we were part of a nation. And that's not that it's not meaningful,

829
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:18,080
right? Like the United States is still meaningful to me. I assume Canada is still meaningful

830
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:26,520
to you. You know, when I recognize the shared cultures and I appreciate them. Right. I appreciate

831
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:34,480
the American people, for instance. And yet, and yet I believe that that these power levers

832
01:19:34,480 --> 01:19:40,560
have been routed around what we would think of a constitutional authority so long ago

833
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:45,440
that what we're actually seeing is the breakdown of the facade, not the nation itself. I could

834
01:19:45,440 --> 01:19:50,920
be wrong about that. I'd love to have, you know, for anybody who has the perspective

835
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:57,320
that what this is about is trying to get people to destroy their own nations. Actually, you

836
01:19:57,320 --> 01:20:05,800
know, I worry it's more having people, you know, I don't think that's the problem, actually.

837
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:09,520
But I would love to have those conversations with those people.

838
01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:15,000
To steelband the idea, if you talk to anyone, you know, millennial and younger, they are

839
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:20,600
vastly out of touch with any kind of common culture, common framework. So maybe it's not

840
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:24,880
the systems are being destroyed, but that for many, you know, the future of humanity,

841
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:34,200
they're already gone. Possibly. Or the fact that they could get online and it would be

842
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:40,080
as if it were, you know, one global online world shows that it wasn't there before, perhaps

843
01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:46,120
that there was that we just didn't have a portal to the other side of the connectivity.

844
01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:49,240
And now suddenly, it's a very small world after all.

845
01:20:49,240 --> 01:21:01,280
Well, I do think I've watched and picked up on perhaps, like, I'm wondering if there is

846
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:07,880
an intentional effort to turn people against and you distinguish between the government

847
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:13,160
and the nation. And I do think this is there's probably several layers of nuance here. But

848
01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:19,440
I think there is an intentional effort to get people to turn on something about the

849
01:21:19,440 --> 01:21:25,560
system. And I don't mean holding people accountable for crimes. I mean, going in and dismantling

850
01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:32,000
everything and allowing it to burn without building alternate solutions. So we're here

851
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:38,240
talking ultimate solutions, sometimes among trusted circles, you know, people I know,

852
01:21:38,240 --> 01:21:44,080
I love and I believe are earnest. Sometimes they'll say something, they'll propose a

853
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:53,480
solution that to me just sounds not like not like anarchy, but like intentional chaos.

854
01:21:53,480 --> 01:21:59,560
And it you see how they got there. But if so, then I zoom out and I go, OK, well, JJ

855
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:05,240
Dewey, OK, he's been a couple of months ago, he discovered this video, which if I had handy,

856
01:22:05,240 --> 01:22:12,280
I'd play it. Is it a video? Yes. Yes. And plays every every stream he does now. And

857
01:22:12,280 --> 01:22:17,320
I'm happy because it's this guy. Matthew, have you seen this? No, I'll try to explain

858
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:25,840
it. It's maybe I have. But Peter, for me again, I'm sorry. In a nutshell, it's this guy. I

859
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:31,000
don't know who he is, but he talks about how if you wanted to create a crisis to have people

860
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:36,120
turn on their government and everything, what you would do is you would manufacture a health

861
01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:42,120
crisis with like a small, you know, one percent. Right. That video with the guy talking. OK,

862
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:47,880
yes, yes, yes. And that's what I thought we were talking about. I'm just going to mention.

863
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:58,440
So. Here's here's one thing that I wonder about is. Is this more like a controlled process?

864
01:22:58,440 --> 01:23:04,360
The corporations are already creating their own private armies. Right. There are there

865
01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:09,940
are private police forces, private police forces aren't even that exclusive. Right.

866
01:23:09,940 --> 01:23:15,640
You can hire private security, you know, a gated community can hire private security,

867
01:23:15,640 --> 01:23:22,360
a mall can hire private security, one store can hire private security. Right. You know,

868
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:31,840
it is there is something about that that is in that is evolving. And it may simply be

869
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:38,400
that this is the moment at which the actual governance structure is saying that that that

870
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:44,780
the pieces of your governance structure are to us more expensive than we know how to make

871
01:23:44,780 --> 01:23:51,520
operate. You know, a good example for it, the ball is going to be in your court to also

872
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:57,000
come up with your own solutions. A good example of that, actually, oddly enough, speaking

873
01:23:57,000 --> 01:24:01,120
of the Internet regulation in Canada, I was listening to Michael Geist podcast where he

874
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:06,880
has a Canadian senator talking about it. And this is my own analysis on top. So don't quote

875
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:12,980
him for it. But the thing is, is the senator was furious. She is furious that the government

876
01:24:12,980 --> 01:24:17,640
of Canada puts through this bill that, you know, we can speculate comes from some other

877
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:23,800
upstairs. And they send it in as is. It doesn't conform to our laws. It doesn't conform to,

878
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:28,520
you know, the way it should be in the system. And the Senate has spent a lot of time. OK,

879
01:24:28,520 --> 01:24:32,120
we've got these amendments so that it can still work within the existing legislative

880
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:36,640
framework. And the Trudeau government apparently said no to that. Those amendments I haven't

881
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:41,760
kept up to recently. Last I heard, they knocked it down. And the senator herself even said

882
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:46,240
if they if they don't accept those amendments, she's like, we don't know what to do now.

883
01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:49,960
You know, it's like this isn't passing. And if there is a set of laws that, you know,

884
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:53,940
they're going to government saying you have to pass these, you know, maybe other governments

885
01:24:53,940 --> 01:24:57,760
are going to like try to make it work. Whereas Trudeau is just like, no, it's going to pass.

886
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:02,320
Just shove it through. It doesn't matter. Let's all check our paychecks and go home.

887
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:09,000
Well, and I think that's right. Like if I said this out loud to my partner Sam the other

888
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:17,840
day, I said, you know, these people really do just sound like they're saying SFA, not

889
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:23,420
swearing here today and hoping that critical thinkers aren't watching. But everyone who

890
01:25:23,420 --> 01:25:29,120
is watching sees like there's nothing of substance behind this ridiculous assertion you just

891
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:33,680
made. So Justin Trudeau can't just say whatever the heck he wants. He can avoid answering

892
01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:38,280
any questions. And by the way, I'm going to say I'm starting to see the same from Pierre

893
01:25:38,280 --> 01:25:46,120
Poliev and basically every leader of any significant position. Another example, Emmanuel Macron

894
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:52,440
is now in and I don't know the details of this, but has now just basically pushed through

895
01:25:52,440 --> 01:26:00,160
some change to pension, like pension reform policy that I think the idea is it was clearly

896
01:26:00,160 --> 01:26:06,040
going to cause people to be very upset. And it seems like the agenda sent from above was

897
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:11,180
this has to be done. So he just did it. And there's almost not even an attempt to get

898
01:26:11,180 --> 01:26:15,880
people on side anymore. It's just we're just going to do this. And it's not we're going

899
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:22,580
to round people up and shoot you. So it's it's just hidden enough from the eyes of anybody

900
01:26:22,580 --> 01:26:28,840
not paying attention. It just seems more and more like that. Or Joe Biden, another example,

901
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:34,640
like when I look at almost every world leader, I see that now. Like I don't see. I don't.

902
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:40,200
I I just see I just see people who are there to push through stuff. And as you say, Gabriel,

903
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:43,320
like there will be people who try to fit it into the system. But that's certainly not

904
01:26:43,320 --> 01:26:48,400
how it came in. And it's certainly not the intention to have it reflect whatever national

905
01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:54,080
sovereignty it's trying to wedge into. Do you see that as well? Like, do we have any

906
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:59,760
legitimate world leaders at this point? I mean, I can't speak for the world. I don't

907
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:04,640
know. Maybe there's a country out there that has has something good going for it. I'm I'm

908
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:08,640
very skeptical. Like, to be honest, I called it the Liberals Solutions Network because

909
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:12,880
I'm like, here's what we need to do about this, because I don't have any ideas on. Oh,

910
01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:17,920
here's how we can fix the governance structure. I'll admit to me, you know, the reason why

911
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:22,880
my logo is shields and not swords is because I think the only way we get out of this is

912
01:27:22,880 --> 01:27:28,520
by protecting each other. We need to make strong communities that can actually support

913
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:31,840
each other, whether it's digitally, whether it's financially, whether it's, you know,

914
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:35,800
with the real stuff that's needed. You know, I just focused on a small slice of this overall

915
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:41,280
picture. And the real tragic thing is, is that I think the governance structure as it

916
01:27:41,280 --> 01:27:46,120
exists, you know, in the last tools of the technocracy, I wrote about the human dominance

917
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:53,040
hierarchy, which is my placeholder for basically whatever this thing is, it has certain components.

918
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:57,280
And there are different people, like you say, who want to smash everything down. You know,

919
01:27:57,280 --> 01:28:00,960
I'll call them the radicals. And there are people who just want, you know, let's just,

920
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:03,680
let's just make it, you know, fix it. The people on our side who are trying to just

921
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:08,520
make it work within the system. I have different advice for people in those two camps. I think

922
01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:13,120
if you're on one side of those barriers, we can still work together as long as we recognize,

923
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:17,160
you know, there are some overlapping goals. And I do think that's one of the big ways

924
01:28:17,160 --> 01:28:21,840
they keep people, you know, in these little silos where it's like, oh, you're a reformer.

925
01:28:21,840 --> 01:28:25,080
Therefore, you know, you're a sellout shill. Oh, you're a radical. Therefore, you're trying

926
01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:32,480
to get us all arrested. To me, the authentic radical side of things is you want to fundamentally

927
01:28:32,480 --> 01:28:37,520
change whatever this dominance hierarchy is. And the reason why liver's illusions is the

928
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:41,120
shields is because the way to do that is defensively, not offensive.

929
01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:46,000
Or maybe we should say even before that, the radical thing is we should think about the

930
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:53,080
health of humans first. Right. Is is, you know, we've been in this rat park. This rat

931
01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:59,640
park is the result of this hierarchy. You know, it's the hierarchical command then interacting

932
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:06,760
with us as a system. Right. And then the radical thing is to say, hey, if what we want is the

933
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:12,520
healthiest world that we're sharing in terms of our interaction with it, then what needs

934
01:29:12,520 --> 01:29:18,800
to happen in in that protocol level, you know, way up where the hierarchy is forming, can

935
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:24,400
we do it from the root up and compete with that that's coming down at us? And I think

936
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:28,920
this is a critical conversation. I would like to revisit it like as in let's let's come

937
01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:34,280
back and talk about this aspect of things later, because I think this is important.

938
01:29:34,280 --> 01:29:40,440
You know, the Fediverse, you know, is it's it's meant for this conversation. But we you

939
01:29:40,440 --> 01:29:47,240
know, this conversation goes deep and we can put a pin in it here and come back to it.

940
01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:51,500
And on that, Gabe, this has been absolutely fantastic. Like I said, I've been writing

941
01:29:51,500 --> 01:29:55,680
down notes this entire time, services I've never heard of. I've pulled up tabs for the

942
01:29:55,680 --> 01:30:01,140
websites that you gave that have the checklist. There's been robust discussion going on in

943
01:30:01,140 --> 01:30:06,320
the locals chat. People are finding that you are a fantastic presenter. So I think people

944
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:09,940
want to hear more from you, which was sort of what got me thinking we should have you

945
01:30:09,940 --> 01:30:14,600
on in the first place, because you had put together this fantastic presentation that

946
01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:19,240
I thought would be and I think correctly, I thought would be a great basis for a conversation

947
01:30:19,240 --> 01:30:25,660
like this. So given that you've got all of these fantastic resources, we've got the

948
01:30:25,660 --> 01:30:31,120
substack link, the link to your substack scrolling on the bottom of the screen here it is for

949
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:36,580
those listening audio only Libre Solutions Network dot substack dot com. And I will bring

950
01:30:36,580 --> 01:30:42,120
it up on screen now. Do you have anything you want us to leave the audience with any

951
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:46,160
any instructions, any suggestions anywhere people can find you that we haven't thought

952
01:30:46,160 --> 01:30:55,920
about yet? Love one another. That's great. That's wonderful. Yeah, you know, when you

953
01:30:55,920 --> 01:31:03,420
go back that's your source protocol level. A lot a lot makes sense. Right? Well, I do

954
01:31:03,420 --> 01:31:07,780
mean that sincerely, though. I mean, the more we can do in our lives, whether it's technologically,

955
01:31:07,780 --> 01:31:13,760
whether it's in other areas, the more we can maximize maximize genuine joy with each other,

956
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:20,120
the better we will all be regardless of what we're facing. True story. True story indeed.

957
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:24,680
Well, I'm going to that was a very short and succinct plug, which is excellent. That gives

958
01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:28,540
me a moment to plug rounding the earth dot locals dot com, where as I mentioned, we've

959
01:31:28,540 --> 01:31:34,760
had robust discussion and a solid community of people who have joined us over there once

960
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:39,360
again for a fantastic chat. So go rounding the earth dot locals dot com. Sign up to be

961
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:43,960
a free member to stay in the loop with everything we're doing, or you can become a paid supporter

962
01:31:43,960 --> 01:31:47,640
for as little as five bucks a month. You can even still for a couple more days get a free

963
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:55,820
month. RTE March twenty twenty three is the promo code. And we do fantastic weekly supporters

964
01:31:55,820 --> 01:32:01,440
only live streams and a bunch of other fun stuff. And most importantly, we love each

965
01:32:01,440 --> 01:32:08,520
other. We we create community. This may be a centralized platform, but the way the decentralized

966
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:12,640
platform start is by connecting with people who then have the idea to go and make their

967
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:16,960
own thing. So I think that's what we're starting to do here. So that's what I recommend people

968
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:21,360
do. And in the meantime, any final thoughts, gentlemen, anything we want to leave people

969
01:32:21,360 --> 01:32:29,600
with? I think Gabriel hit the nail on the head. I mean, that that, you know, the source

970
01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:35,960
of the protocol is is a healthy human community and love and and, you know, that that interaction

971
01:32:35,960 --> 01:32:41,040
right there, everything else springs from it. And you make more sense of a lot of it

972
01:32:41,040 --> 01:32:47,080
when you when you come back to that route. Thank you, guys. It's been a pleasure. Thanks

973
01:32:47,080 --> 01:33:11,880
for joining us. OK, we'll see you guys again very soon. Goodbye, everybody.