the
Hello and welcome to Rounding the Earth.
My name is Matthew Crawford and I apologize to those of you who were trying to join us
earlier.
I had technical difficulties at home, had to go reset a router and kind of, you know,
8lunch came back, allowed everything to reboot and establish itself, right?
And so, but we're back.
Fortunately, we have two guests today, not just one, and then we're both able to push
back an hour and 15 minutes to join us now, which is great.
So we don't have to reschedule and this is an important topic too and it's important
that this information gets out now or is at least talked about now because people need
to understand, you know, what it is that is going on in the medical freedom community
and with their money and, you know, what is it that we can trust in the ecosystem going
forward?
So I'm going to introduce two guests today.
And Renette, this is your first time here, though, I've been on your podcast at Foghorn
Express and Kristen is the, and Foghorn Express is also a substack and Kristen is author of
Beyond the Maze and has joined us multiple times before.
So welcome to both of you.
Thanks.
Nice to be here, Matt.
And these two ladies have been among those who have kept up with the sort of investigation
into America's frontline doctors and what's been happening there because that kind of
became a mess.
Simone Gold was at the Capitol on January 6th and was arrested and served a little bit
of prison time for that.
But there's a much longer story to America's frontline doctors than just, you know, the
advocacy that they've seen on TV and that one moment, which has some interesting caveats
to it.
But I'm going to, you know, well, currently we have a court case or maybe multiple legal
proceedings going on and we have an internal investigation going on into the finances of
America's frontline doctors.
And I'm going to start there.
Which of you would like to take the baton and explain, you know, what's going on with
the financial situation at America's frontline doctors?
So I'll start.
So basically at this point in time, it was in February 2022 that Simone Gold resigned
and she later on brought this case to Arizona saying she did not resign.
It was conditioned upon a one and a half million dollar payoff essentially so she could start
her gold care for profit company.
Ultimately, the judge in Arizona made the decision.
It was clearly defined that yes, she did resign.
It was not on a condition of one point five million dollars.
And unfortunately, since then, she's continued to travel the country, declare herself the
sitting president and chair of AFLDS.
And what's happened is the AFLDS board that has Joey Gilbert as the president, they went
along and actually organized and created what's called the Oversight Committee that is chaired
by Kevin Jenkins.
Since then, they have been going out and putting into place an actual forensic audit.
The forensic audit, though, is being stonewalled by Simone Gold's actual money person, their
treasurer and accountant.
And so they're actually now going after the accountant.
What they did do, though, Matt, is they did do a preliminary audit and they saw that tens
of millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars, besides just the three point six
million dollar Florida home purchase and purchase of three nice vehicles has been absconded with.
Unfortunately, they cannot complete their entire forensic audit unless they can get
those books and those bank account opened.
So right now they're working on that.
What they're also doing and there's some internal struggle going on right now is Kevin Jenkins
has been asking all the board members, including Joey Gilbert, who the Arizona judge had said
that there was self-dealing involved.
They had twenty thousand dollar a month salaries as AFLDS board members.
So they really some of them did not have the experience for that type of salary to be
justified.
And so what Kevin Jenkins has been doing, who's on the Oversight Committee, he's been
asking the board to step down and say, look it in order for us really to take this to
court and have it be very clear, nothing muddled.
We need a new board, a board that actually has doctors sitting on it and have the experience
of running five one C three's.
So we have that right now.
There is an eviction process going on with Simone Gold and her living boyfriend in Florida,
John Strand.
They needed the LLC documents, but they're in process of evicting her as well.
And they have actually cut the payroll of the AFLDS board.
They have also fired a lot of the AFLDS employees that were still working with Simone Gold and
actually also working with her Gold Care for-profit company as well.
So it's a bit of a it's a bit of a mess right now, but they're doing the best they can.
And as Kevin says, if the board, the current sitting AFLDS board, if they do not do the
right thing and resign and proceed pursuing Simone Gold, Kevin will go to the the U.S.
and the state attorney generals and they will actually ask for a receivership of AFLDS.
And they're going to continue that way.
So it is getting hot and heavy right now.
But I do challenge the current AFLDS board, including Sheriff Mack, who did go out and
without the board's approval, solicit Simone Gold and try to cut a private deal without
the board's knowledge.
So there's a lot of turmoil going on right now.
And I'm just going to challenge everybody in the medical freedom movement to do the
right thing and think about the donors, think about the people who've been suffering from
covid who've been suffering from the draconian measures for the last three years.
So this is interesting.
I did just a little bit of writing on AFLDS.
Not much.
But the moment I did, a number of people reached out to me and said, you know, I gave them
money and I've been trying to contact them and and I get nothing back.
And of course, I don't know who any of these people are.
As far as I know, they're bots.
But I assume I assume these are probably real people reaching out to to to witness that
there's something that doesn't feel right about the situation, as in lack of communication,
lack of action.
It makes me wonder, like going back, I didn't even know what what was the original purpose
of AFLDS.
What did they form a 50C3 to do?
Because I've heard talk of like, you know, I feel like I remember Smokegold tweeting
out, you know, we want to create a new hospital system or something like that.
And and I thought that's what they were raising all the money for.
It sounded like north of 50 million, if I if I understand what I've heard correctly.
So what was the original purpose?
Well, originally a couple of different things.
One is the telehealth, right?
They're trying to make available ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine and actually give people
a connection to real doctors to help them while they're in an emergency crisis.
The other thing is to was also to fight back against all these draconian measures and put
forward and support certain lawsuits.
And so you did mention to me earlier about the hospital that might be the case.
I mean, I do know a lot of them want to a lot of the medical, freedom medical doctors
right now do want to create their own wellness centers.
And so there might be something like that that she was actually thinking of like her
own wellness center, which is really what Goldcare is.
It's like this wellness center, though it's also highly, highly questionable to what we've
uncovered with that.
Yeah, it feels like when you've got a 501 C3, I personally feel like everything should
be transparent, like all finances should be transparent.
This is one of the reasons why I'm a I'm a blockchain advocate, actually, is, you know,
when people are giving tens of millions of dollars to a company, not to be able to see
what's being done with the money just seems like a no brainer of that.
That's a disconnect of trust.
And so it feels like people need to be calling that out.
But it sounds like there's one person on the inside who's being pretty vocal, Kevin Jenkins.
Kevin Jenkins is being very vocal.
I think he realizes at this point in time that, you know, there's a lot at stake here, and
including everyone's reputation.
If they don't clean this up, then essentially they're complicit in the crimes.
And Kevin has been saying that anybody who gives her airtime, anybody who gives her stage,
anybody who writes about her and does not speak to what's really going on is complicit
in the crime.
And Kevin Jenkins is realizing that if they don't clean house, they're all going down.
And and I know Kevin, I just spoke with him this morning.
He's not going to stand for that.
And so he is challenging the board right now.
In fact, today to do the right thing, resign, put the right people onto the board who have
board experience with 501 C3s, who have medical experience, who are not getting huge salaries,
monthly salaries, and then proceed with the court cases against Simone Gold for literally
acting fraudulently and making false claims that she's still on the board, that she's
still president and chair of AFLDS, which she clearly is not.
Well, yeah, I think that, you know, just going ahead and sort of presuming innocence or,
you know, I guess I can't say if a crime has been committed.
I haven't looked through all the details myself, obviously.
But I just want to mention for for anybody watching, completely independent of Renette
or Kevin or Kristen, somebody else came to me.
I had a phone conversation.
We actually were not talking about this topic, but it came up in the phone conversation.
He told me and I trust this person because they were actually, you know, they had no
reason to tell me a story.
We were on we were discussing a completely different topic.
But they told me that Simone Gold had gone to the attorney Todd Collender and asked him
to launder 30 million dollars in a private jet.
And so I can't say that happened.
It is hearsay as it is.
But it's interesting that it matches the numbers.
And I had not talked with either of you about this when I when I heard that.
So I didn't know what the number was going to be.
But it sounds like we're talking about a similar amount of money missing according to this
internal audit or what they say has been the internal audit.
So we'll have to see how that plays out.
We'll have to see what the evidence looks like.
But yeah, that was very interesting to me.
It made me look back through John Strand's social media and the AFLDS social media.
And right now it mostly just looks like like a daily stream of rah rah freedom.
And I feel like if that's all you know, if that's where this has all been headed toward,
I think not a lot of people are going to feel like they got their money's worth 50 million
dollars a brah rah freedom.
Have there been any lawsuits that they have fought or what battles have they fought and
won?
AFLDS?
Well, that's actually really questionable because I've asked Kevin and I've asked other
ones and they've they've kind of parlayed themselves or they have ridden on the coattails
of other lawsuits.
But they have not from what I've gathered, they have not actually gone out there and
led and undertaken any lawsuits themselves.
So what we have for certain is photo ops.
Yeah.
And awards.
And lots of promises, lots of promises that have not been fulfilled.
I do know personally, people that I know who have been grifted where they've reached out,
they paid their money and they never heard from anyone ever again, as far as a doctor
from the telehealth or they ever received their medication.
Okay.
And maybe that's what people were trying to tell me.
I hadn't heard these stories before.
But that sounds like it might be what people were trying to tell me.
I didn't get a chance to really dig in and look into it.
But that's awful if people didn't get their medicine.
I can expand on that.
Please do.
So I was already kind of following and monitoring different America's frontline doctors, social
media channels, of which there were a number, but there was a main AFLDS discussion or chat
that had thousands of people in it.
And I noticed in real time back in the fall and winter, basically of late 2021 into 2022,
thousands and hundreds and hundreds of people commenting that they had paid the $90 telehealth
fee to have access to a doctor.
They were told that they'd be called within two or three days.
It had been multiple weeks or longer.
They never got called.
Married couples had to both pay the fee.
They couldn't just pay once.
If they made contact, a number of different instances of getting the wrong product or
something going awry and re-contacting America's frontline doctors, and if there was a response,
they were told they had to pay the fee again to have access to a doctor.
And then there were outrageously high costs for these medicines, for ivermectin and for
hydroxychloroquine.
So there's just this flood of what I've documented and have of comments from people saying they
were billed $580 or sent sample pills, actually, not even the real product, but sent a little
baggie of sample pills and charged $350 or something like that.
In fact, the chat at that time was so flooded with people.
I have documented comments from people saying, I've seen hundreds of people making these
comments and absolutely no moderation for this chat.
Nobody was admoning.
No one was moderating.
No one responded to any of these people.
It was really terrible and really sad.
And there were cases where people literally said, I'm afraid my loved one is really sick.
It's been weeks.
I've spent this much money already.
Why isn't anyone calling me?
And just to kind of add to that element of this terrible story, in fall of 2021, a journalist
at the Intercept, which is a left leaning media outlet.
So all of their pieces are going to be awash in accusations of disinformation and anti-vaccine
rhetoric.
But if you can kind of weed through that nonsense, there's some helpful information sometimes
in those kinds of outlets as well.
And this journalist from the Intercept was contacted by a hacker who had hacked into
the databases of two of these third party companies that were working with America's
frontline doctors.
One called Cadence Health that provided the telehealth service and the other called RavQ,
which was an online pharmacy.
And this hacker extracted, managed to very easily gain access to, according to these
articles, 260,000, but now we hear from someone internally, it was more like 1.6 million possibly,
patients private information, not just their names, their physical addresses, their vocations,
but also their health information.
And provided that information to this journalist.
He went on to write a couple pieces.
He did a couple interviews about it.
And the focus was on the grift because they could see how much money these people had
paid.
And so just via the telehealth company and this information, to be really clear, was
over the course of basically two months.
That's it.
So they got this information on patients from two of the, I want to say four, I'm not sure,
third party companies involved.
So this wasn't even the extent of the third party companies involved.
And that was only over like an eight to 10 week period of time, July through August into
September.
And just for the telehealth service fee, collectively people had paid $6.7 million.
And for the actual pharmacy products, it was like 8.7.
So if you take that number and you know that America's Frontline Doctors launched their
telehealth service in January of that year, you have a previous six months of this service
and financial exchange going on with the public.
Even if you round it down and you say, okay, it was only 3 million a month from January
up until July, you're looking at short of $20 million.
And then additionally, right on the heels of this article coming out, these articles coming
out, one of the CEOs of one of these two companies cut ties with America's Frontline Doctors.
And another one for, I think it was a pharmacy, online pharmacy company, then like a month
or two later, stopped working with America's Frontline Doctors because they were so inundated
with requests.
So it skyrocketed after that, they weren't able to fulfill them.
And it was around that same time that their main social media chat was flooded with all
of these people who were not getting the product and they were not getting a phone call from
a doctor.
So you can do some basic math in your head and get a guesstimation of the amount of money
that this organization actually pulled in.
And this doesn't even have anything to do with just donations.
And when Simone Gold went to jail, I remember in my county listserv people who are signed
up for her emails daily, every single day, she was putting out urgent requests for funds,
support America, support freedom, martyr this, martyr that, every single day.
And already they just must have had this immense amount of money in their coffers.
If you look at the 990s from 2020 and 2021, it doesn't reflect mathematically what must
have been coming in.
So there's definitely a need for kind of crowdsourcing in that area and accountability.
Yeah, certainly.
The weird thing about all of this that's been going on, this pandemonium or plandemonium,
is will you get accountability if the other side doesn't care if there's somebody grifting
off of people in the medical freedom movement?
You've got people who want real medicine and who reach out to get it.
And if they don't get it, does that also satisfy the aims or possibly even?
And I'm not really speculating.
I'm just saying that hypothetically, this could be intentionally done to keep people
from getting medicine.
And this is one of the reasons why it's important.
It's one of the reasons why I disagree with Robert Malone, for instance, when he says
people should just presume trust with him or with anybody within the medical freedom
movement.
And my thought is, no, there's so much going on.
There's such clear motivation for people to grift or for people who might be chaos agents
and disingenuously on the side of medical freedom to sabotage the movement in various
ways.
And that would include sucking money out of people's pockets.
If the goal is to keep people from having the power to oppose it, then that's one of
the methods to employ.
It's one of the reasons why I publicly question, for instance, Steve Kirsch raising $100 million
for a hedge fund right at this moment of strange banking crisis and what looks like a bubble
market that's probably still going to come down some more.
Yeah, there's a lot that people should consider and people should not trust easily.
The idea of easy trust just seems silly, like would you teach your children easy trust
with strangers or something like that.
So I think that we need a moment of accountability and we need for people to ask the questions
themselves, which organizations can I trust and why?
It's one of the reasons why I like to promote as often as possible somebody like Dr. Fareed
or Brian Tyson.
Just from what I've seen, I've seen enough to have certain levels of trust.
But there are other places where I look and there are just signs that there's just a
lot of money involved and not a lot of accountability.
Well, I'd like to add to that too.
We have to understand that we're in war and it's that fifth generation warfare unlike
anything we've ever seen before in the past.
You have to understand that propaganda and these chaos agents and those who are there
to usurp and to take the wind out of the sail of the movement, they've all been put into
place.
We're seeing a long game being played here.
So for anybody, I know Mickey Willis, who I respect him and I like the guy and there's
Dr. Robert Malone, as you'd mentioned.
But for anybody to sit there and say, don't question, don't point the fingers, if you
see criminality, just hush, hush, you can't.
You can't because these are the people who are going to derail the movement.
To me, it's about having a high standard of having high ethics and calling out criminality
even within your own ilk, your own circle.
It's a difficult thing to do.
Most people don't have the guts for that.
But when you have this much money, this much power, you can have this much influence, not
only are you going to have those who have been placed in these positions, but you're
going to have the type of personality.
Some of them are sociopaths and psychopaths and narcissists who are going to be attracted
to it.
So it's actually our responsibility and it's tough because it's the medical freedom movement.
If you can't police your own circle, why should anyone trust you to police theirs?
That's right.
There's kind of two different things going on though, or probably more, but there's over
the course of time, well-meaning people finding themselves, I think, attracted to a financial
arrangement in a lot of cases because people do need to live and have an income and not
everyone has a totally ennobled relationship to money.
So that theme has been very strong over the last few years of also just redirecting people's
focus and kind of scooping them up into situations that seem then to result in management or
handling, you could say.
But in the case of America's Frontline Doctors, there's this added element of the concept
from the beginning having been born out of a political group and with the intention of
a political strategy.
So Simone Gold was a national advisor for the Save America Coalition, is that what it's
called?
Save our Country.
And she sat on that council with members of or people very closely affiliated with ALEC,
CNP, Heritage Foundation, the kind of core dark money packs that I would consider deep
state on the right.
And Tea Party Patriots, a number of top campaign folks for Trump and influencers.
And there was a call, there was a phone call that was leaked to the Associated Press between
a number of these people where they actually created the imagination of America's Frontline
Doctors.
They said, look, to help Trump kind of push back against this whole lockdown agenda, we
need a bunch of pro-Trump doctors.
We want them to be wearing like bright white coats.
This is how this is going to look.
You know, like went as far as to kind of stage the imagination.
Now you could say, well, that's an agenda worth supporting if you weren't a fan of the lockdowns,
etc.
But it's still really important to understand if it's born out of a political strategy,
that's always going to be there in its biography.
And the people who I think the initial treasurer, I don't know if he still is now, is the
guy from Awaken Church who maybe launched and funds the Reawaken America Tour.
And a lot of the original doctors aren't even there anymore.
I don't know where they found these people.
I don't know who they are.
And Carolina Bonita was really closely connected at the time with a couple of them or so, and
Angie Ferrella.
So she was in the mix.
And then you also have Mike Kudre, who launched and managed and still does, to my knowledge,
all of the social media.
And he comes out of data harvesting, market research, behavioral analytics.
He's contracted with the U.S. government through one of his various companies that he owns
called UcoSocial.
And if you go to this website, you'll see basically they offer a variety of packages
for between $2,000 to $10,000 a month.
You can hire them to manage your social media, grow your social media, but also provide analysis
for you.
He's bragged about running social media campaigns for a dozen high profile politicians.
And his company contracted with the government based on that information and the service
product codes to provide cyber intel.
So who is this again?
This is Michael Kudre.
He's...
AFLDS's social media.
Social media director.
And he's like another one of these kind of right-wing influencer guys who...
He has a similar profile to Stu Peters because he was a relatively unsuccessful white rapper
who went by the name Mike Tokes.
And he was actually arrested and I believe charged, I'm not sure, for some fraud.
Back in 2017 and came out of that canoodling with pretty high profile right-wing people.
And really quickly, he had a makeover is like how a lot of people describe it.
And all of a sudden he presents as this really successful entrepreneur and investor.
He launches something called Ferros Investment Group.
Although I can't find anything online to corroborate that, so maybe that's a fund.
And that umbrellas investments into all of these different areas, including biotechnology.
And he owns a series of companies called Tova Companies.
If you Google him, what you'll find most often is a sustainable avocado farm enterprise.
He more recently launched, but he also owns Tova Medical, which is a telehealth company
based in Puerto Rico.
And this company, Yuko Social.
And Yuko Social is the one that contracted with the government for a year, 2020 I think.
And the product service codes place that cyber intel contract into analysis, market research,
communications in the realm of intelligence and defense.
So here you have this guy who and Yuko Social, if you go to the website and you click on
the Twitter link, it brings you to the Twitter account of a different company called 33 Assets
Incorporated.
And I saw him...
We've got multiple financial companies.
Yeah.
So I'm just going to take a step back.
I had a career in finance.
And it was like every other person was like a failed rapper who spent time in prison.
Very common story.
Multiple financial companies and suddenly in a high profile crowd.
And it's also interesting to me that he connects to Puerto Rico because Puerto Rico, the number
of things going on in and around the Puerto Rico circle, and it's not even clear how many
of them connect, but it seems like they might all connect.
There's a really weird thing too is when you look at Coudre, you even look at their connections
with General Flynn, as you said, far, far, far right, the deep state.
And even Eric Prince of Blackwater, formerly known as Blackwater, even James O'Keefe is
connected there.
I mean, you have this really weird intersection of players, of young men in their 30s or so
who get influenced by what I'd say the deep state players with a lot of influx of money
and opportunity.
And it's like they're put out there on the forefront or into the mix.
And when you start to look behind them, there's some really, really deep tentacles and allow
them do the intercept for sure.
Yeah, so Coudre also went on to co-organize the Stop the Steal rally, the very famous
Stop the Steal rally that took place on January 6th with Ali Alexander.
And so he's part of this handful of high level individuals, I'll call them influencers, who
played a very important role in actually creating the arena within which this whole event unfolded,
none of whom, to my knowledge, are currently sitting in jail, where you have over 600 people
sitting in jail, and I could pull a few dozen particular cases and describe how unbelievably
ridiculous it is that these people have been in jail for over 750 days straight, most of
it in solitary confinement.
But what you see is a pattern of these kind of like middle tier to upper tier right wing
influencer people were the ones who got the permits.
They were in like group chats together.
He was even, Coudre was even subpoenaed by the select committee, which was just all nonsense.
I obviously don't need to say that.
But nonetheless, regarding tax exchanges between him and Ali Alexander leading up to the event
and during the event and all of these people.
So Ali Alexander, Michael Coudre, Nick Fuentes, Alex Jones, his wife, a woman named Cindy
Chapian, the list goes on and on, all stayed in the same hotel, the Willard, nearby to
the Capitol.
And in a way, it almost looks like it was like a control center.
They hosted these rallies.
You have the infamous Leigh Dundas participation as well the day before.
They hosted rallies for two days.
Many of them communicated encouraging comments to people regarding their pressure being
put on the Capitol.
But none of them went in.
And so it's just this stark contrast between the incited, encouraged, invited citizen and
consequences versus the people who actually organized, literally organized the entire
thing happening.
And so he also shows up there.
They did not go in themselves.
And of course, anyone can claim, well, I just have better judgment than that.
But when it's so uniform, it has to make us, you know, you have to wonder, you know, the
degree to which they could have had prior knowledge.
And this is exactly why people in the medical freedom movement need to pay attention and
not give trust easily and, you know, make their own decisions and be as discerning as
they can.
Well, there's a couple of things.
One is you're really what we're really seeing with AFLDS, it's really exemplified, is the
massive smoke and mirrors, the massive propaganda machine from Michael Kudre still running the
social media to the fact that America Frontline Doctors, Frontline News is in Israel.
It's ironic they're frontline news, but they're in Israel.
And I do know that the current AFLDS and in fact, the oversight committee want to bring
back frontline news and actually put it into America.
And then you look at any of the social media with AFLDS and Simone Gold, and it really
is very much about just presenting a certain picture.
And there's really very little substance or truth behind it, but there's a lot of smoke
and mirrors.
And I think that people have to really start tuning their discernment and start looking
beyond the hype.
And what happened was early on, as Kristen had mentioned, we did have The Intercept,
we did have Mother Jones, we did have certain journalists who were reporting on the grifting,
for instance, but that was in the context of, oh, these crazy anti-vaxxers and they believe
in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, they're crazy.
So nobody in our world was going to give those articles any time or credence or even read
them.
But there was truth to it.
Right.
This is one of the difficulties of the breakdown of media.
And it's not even just hyper partisanship anymore.
It's also the censorship.
I have actually wondered if the censorship is itself a tool for breaking people into
two pools.
Right.
YouTube and Facebook for one pool or something like that.
And then anybody who is right leaning, maybe pushed off to Gab or Getter or Truth Social
or something like that.
And I've wondered if that was a deliberate thing, like bring people into places where
they can be showered with influence and showered with possibly grifters, people who don't have
their best interest at heart.
I'm going to mention this since we've talked about the influencers and Kristen, you bring
up right wing groups.
When I was in Puerto Rico myself for the global COVID summit in September of 2021, one of
the interesting things that I heard, one of the media guys who was involved in the production
of all that, one of the guys mentioned that they had some enormous number of emails from
the Trump family, email addresses from the Trump family, from the charge.
I think he said directly from the Trump family.
I think the number was something like 90 million.
And when you think about that level of influence and organization, people are putting their
information in the hands of people who can build a list, who can sell that.
I don't even think sell that information is the worst possibility, but just build a list.
And if anybody in any of those organizational circles is there as a bad actor, then suddenly
that list is in the hands of whoever would be the worst enemy that a person would want
to put their information with.
It was also interesting to me that the organization of media influencers was a topic there in Puerto
Rico.
And I heard Russell Brandt's name attached to that.
And he did a strange recasting of himself.
And he is now the sort of social media guru who seems to be aiming at disenchanted right-wing
crowd that needs, I don't know, that maybe needs somebody to say, no, you're not crazy
for thinking freedom.
But if that's an organized image, is it the same thing as somebody having your back?
People need to think about that.
Where does this go if I follow social media gurus?
I'd love to jump in because there's this element of the money, making money off people and
their plight, or at least it kind of running away from them if it got to the point where
they couldn't manage the demand.
And this question of accountability, if there's missing money, which it sounds like there
is.
But there's also this element of data harvesting.
And I actually initially started looking into America's frontline doctors early on, like
two years ago, because the astroturfed operations that I had already identified and had confirmation
from people who were at the top in the beginning were harvesting data on the members, they
had crossover in their management with, in particular, the Citizen Corps social media
groups that had the same design, which was this was on Telegram and they had a state
Citizen Corps social media for every state in the country.
And so I joined mine, I joined a number of other ones, and I kind of monitored what was
going on, and it became pretty clear to me that they were harvesting data in a number
of different ways.
And so one is actually with petitions, you can gather what's called point in time data,
which is like in that instant or for the amount of time that a petition circulates, you get
people to give their personal information and sign something and you get an indication
of how many people there are that you can access who support or don't support a certain
thing.
I just did an interview with my friend Gopi Krishna on artificial intelligence, which is
on my my sub stack beyond the maze.
And I really love this, this interview he he pulls out two concepts that I think are just
absolutely critical for people to develop and or contemplate one being with social media,
you have the possibility to actually just push a button or like pull a lever and you
can through communicating something, especially through someone with a lot of influence, move
massive amounts of people toward or away from something.
But the other concept is the dichotomy between institution and individual.
In this case, let's say hero or you might use the term guru Matthew, where you have
a portion of the population give their trust right away to institutions.
And then you have this other portion of the population that is not going to do that.
And the more the media tries to like hurt everyone into the camp of trusting the institutions,
the less this other crowd is going to.
And for that crowd, you need heroes.
If you want to move people, you need that level of influence.
And so this is this is the realm within which the individual who runs all of America's front
line doctors, social media works in.
It is this sphere of influence.
It's literally how he describes what he does.
And that and so I'm certain that they were harvesting data and that that was a really
big part of it.
You have the leading medical freedom organization with the largest membership.
Why wouldn't that just be a gold mine to characterize the dissenting population?
And it's interesting that it would happen.
You brought up artificial intelligence.
I'm going to add to that.
J.J.
Cooey came on routing the earth two, three months ago, maybe three, four months ago.
And he said, you know what, if this is somewhere near peak population of the world, then now
would be the time to collect as much genetic data as possible.
Right.
Similarly to, you know, if we're at the end of an era like maybe the dollar era or something
like that, now may be the time to collect as much information about different groups
as possible.
Maybe not even with a goal of anything like the medical freedom movement, maybe not even
caring which direction, which team wins or something like that.
For when maybe defined as how policy unfolds from here.
But simply simply to gather the value of that data.
In other words, there is a conflict of interest inherent in the existence now, the emergence
of artificial intelligence tools and machines.
So that's something that people should keep in mind.
You know, own your own data as much as possible, take control of it as much as possible.
And don't just don't just freely give it away in these spaces because you think they're
secure, private and run by allies like at least question if you don't know who the people
are running these groups, try to try to see if there's indications.
For example, a question like who knows of a doctor in New York State who isn't going
to require vaccines.
Right.
And then all of these well-meaning, not so intelligent people just start giving names.
I know of a case in California where and it was related to Citizen Corps, it was related
to a Citizen Corps channel.
A doctor had his license removed because the woman running the Citizen Corps channel posted
a picture of an exemption that he wrote, supposedly wrote for her.
I don't know if this is true and she said like you all can just go to this doctor to get
an exemption.
You know, I want to hit upon you.
You're talking about heroes and gurus versus institutions and how the population split.
And you know, we talked before in the past how like Fort Hood in California was a place
to really create the PSYOPs and the actors and how they were doing a deep dive into creating
gurus in California.
I think it was like the 60s and the 70s and started with even Manson.
And I think that they were looking at the long game back then that they knew at some
point there was going to be a loss of confidence in institutions and government and so on.
So who would the people look to?
And now we look to these independent gurus or heroes.
And I think from what I've seen on the front lines as an activist is that the powers that
be, they know when some kind of movement is bubbling from the bottom up.
They can sense that.
And they're really brilliant at tapping in to, OK, like who are we going to put at the
front here to steer that crowd?
You know, it could be, you know, the Egyptian revolution or it could be like the Arab Spring
is that type of thing.
Like there was this rumbling below and they just took it and they started in a different
direction.
So we have to understand that 100 percent that is happening.
And we have to, again, have that discernment to figure out who are these individuals.
And a lot of it is you have to look at who's behind them, what's their history, who's
the money with Simone Gold.
She goes out there and says, I'm the founder.
I started AFLDS.
We know for a fact that no, she did not start it.
She was put at the, you know, you know, at the head of it.
She was the face of it.
But that is not the narrative she shares today.
So I would be careful as much as I love Russell Brand and he makes me laugh.
I think he's a great guy.
I get really concerned when I see certain ties with like who he's married to or family
members or what his past is.
And I think what everybody has a responsibility to whoever it is that they're following, at
the very least, they should start doing a deep dive or look at those who are doing deep
dives and these individuals, because it's not what we think it is.
And what we know from AFLDS, it's all about creating a perception.
It's all about creating smoke and mirrors and collecting that data and going those with
how that data is going to be used later on.
But that's what I'm seeing right now is that, like, for instance, in Europe, we are seeing
an absolute revolution that is skyrocketing, is exploding in France and other countries.
But we also know that it's going to be highly, highly manipulated.
And so we have to have that discernment and really step back and take a deep dive and
look at it.
So this is interesting that you bring up Fort Hood and research into how to create gurus,
because this is actually a topic that I've spent a significant portion of my adult life
examining.
And this is what I think was going on at the Stanford Research Institute.
Jim Channing, who worked in a think tank within the DOD, within the Army, Jim Channing was
somebody who went to California and studied how it is the gurus operated.
People who had like little cults, a little bit of land and cult, David Kresh types, maybe
not quite as extreme, maybe more extreme in some ways, but how did that control of people
really happen and take place?
And specifically, I was actually involved in a program growing up as a child that was
part of that Jim Channing program.
And they called the program remote viewing.
And there are a lot of people who believe that the remote viewing is true.
I mean, to me, it's silly.
I saw the way these people behaved.
And I think that they were all just untrustworthy and that there was clearly something else
going on.
I've called it governance by aggressive nonsensical guruism.
It's gangs that I think they're trying to establish some sort of new social order or
the ability to be able to lead people.
Perhaps once they've sort of been brain neutered in the school system.
But specifically, you know, when you go back to the Stanford Research Institute, they were
they brought in this convincing nightclub magician from Israel, sort of guru-esque personality,
Yuri Geller.
His primary thing once he was put on TV and cultivating an audience was literally a nightclub
magic trick of spoon bending.
But the interesting thing about him, perhaps in my mind, is he was sued by a woman in Israel
because at the end of his act, he wouldn't admit that it wasn't real.
You know, you have this person who just like sticks to the story, willing.
And even when it upsets people, they're committed to the illusion.
My commitment to the illusion, that's when you have a guru, I think.
And there are a lot of people, I think, who get taken in by the remote viewing program
who just say, why would the government have spent hundreds of millions of dollars if it
weren't to actually like, you know, catch up with the Soviets and fight the Soviets or
whatever.
And my thought is always like, no, no, no, look, look just a little bit deeper here.
You know, this program was about developing emotional and mental control over people.
And something like remote viewing is just a great testing ground for that because most
of the programs, most of the things they said they were training people to do like walk
through walls are such obvious nonsense.
Or I guess, you know, I don't know the fundamental nature of the universe necessarily.
I guess I can keep an open mind.
Maybe somebody walks through walls.
I don't know.
But it's the kind of thing that your skepticism should be highest about at the very least.
So when people just come to accept it, you know that there is something going on in the
social sauce there.
Right.
And I think that it's really important for people to think that way as it is that we
have something like a new era and even the help of artificial intelligence, knowing who
you are and how you can be emotionally plied.
People should be thinking that way.
It should be harder to trust than ever before unless you really have worked with people
you know that personally.
I mean, I think you're hitting upon it.
I mean, I have a lot of people say, what do we do now with the deep fake videos, even
the deep fake audios, AI.
It really makes trusting online and what you see and hear almost impossible to believe.
And I think what we're going to have to do ultimately is, and I know the irony of me
saying this on a screen, but as we have to remove ourselves from the screen and really
start working and creating and coalescing those small pods of people that you know and
trust and you can have a face to face contact because now more than ever, and again, our
screens have been, they've been weaponized against us for sure.
So now more than ever, you really can't trust what you see on the screen.
So I'm really encouraging people to start having those weekly potlucks and growing your
food and connecting and sharing skills and improving upon skills because what we see
on the screen is going to only get worse and worse over the next few years.
And so it's terrible because I actually don't know what to trust any longer on the screen.
It's really, really difficult.
And I had people who used to believe me.
A few years ago, they listened to me.
And then they just, and they were, they were putting solar on their homes.
They were growing food.
They were, they were constructing greenhouses.
And let me tell you, overnight when the fear struck, they're like, we don't trust you,
Renette.
We believe in Fauci.
And I was like, you didn't even know who Fauci was a month ago.
And these are people who are now fully vaccinated and they're not doing well, but they, they
literally gave up this incredible 40 year, 30 year relationship for somebody on the screen
as their guru and they're not doing well.
Yeah.
I think that there's, that there's some sort of a mental hacking where each of us desperately
wants to have a leader.
Yeah.
It is, it's ingrained in our minds.
You know, the primates, you know, you have, you know, you typically have a silver back
or something like that.
Some people say the alpha male and gorilla culture, sometimes it's, it's the female,
but it's a combination of politics and strength, right?
Whatever, whatever it means to keep the equilibrium of the truth.
Right.
And, but, you know, so you have larger and larger groups, the human brain got large enough
that we can know personally, large number of people sometimes it's referred to as the
Dunbar number 150, though people say, well, we can, we can manage to 300 social relationships.
Doesn't matter whatever that number is.
I posited about a decade ago.
I came up with this notion that, that the reason that political leadership is so good
at lying and getting away with it constantly is because people look for a very specific
person to fit into their, to like a specific slot in their Dunbar number, right?
The tribe has a chief, there is a silverback, there is an alpha.
And if we are all disconnected from our local communities, then what happens is people
develop a parasocial relationship.
And can it be a parasocial relationship with, with Simone Gold?
Can it be a parasocial relationship with Robert Malone or with, with Steve Kirsch?
And this is why I don't like the hero game so much.
Right.
You know, once, once that, once that person in your mind is the head of your tribe, they
have an enormous amount of influence on where it is you decide to take your politics, your
personal decisions, all of that.
It's, it's a parasocial relationship, but it fits in evolutionarily, I think, to the formation
of our minds.
And so, you know, we've entered a different age with, with control of media and with,
with artificial intelligence and the ability to gather and process so much information.
I think that's, that's ultimately at the heart of this.
So maybe it is that AFLDS could turn out to be a blessing in disguise.
If this turns out to have just been, you know, a plan to abscond with tens of millions of
dollars and maybe even leave enough behind in the organization so that all the people
working there can sort of, you know, if, if you haven't actually really gone after it
with a sword, you know, then, then you're really just taking the money and staying hush, hush,
right?
So.
So the current AFLDS board or new board members, if they're replaced, they have to go after
Simone Gold.
They have to stop the fraud and the criminality.
Otherwise we have to question, we have to question their motives and, and we have to
question whether or not they're, they're part of the plan.
So you, you can't, you, they can't allow this in good faith.
And I, you know, I, I suspect that Henry's right about the law, Henry, really.
And, and, but he's certainly right in spirit if, if, if something like that has taken place
in your organization and you are not pushing to open up the doors and, and invite people,
invite the investigators and law enforcement in to manage the problem, then, then I think
that you are also guilty yourself.
But so, you know, we'll see.
And this is, I think this is the way that the entire medical freedom movement needs
to be governed.
Not that it's necessarily one move.
There are a lot of people who stop and go, it's not a movement.
And there's sort of a truth in that, but it's also, there is also clearly a truth in the
fact that it is a movement, right?
It's like, you don't need a definition to know that, that there is something going on, right?
That there are people who are looking for others who are like, wait a minute, this,
this strange, you know, U-turn in terms of, of believing in, in the value of natural rights
and value of, of many people making many decisions that, that, you know, test a lot of possibilities
and help us, you know, confederate the formation of society and the formation of our economy
and all that.
All the positivity and creativity that's in that, that, that there's, you know, those
of us who are recognizing and looking around and going, wait a minute, who really believes
in freedom still?
There's something to that.
But if everybody gives up, if everybody puts all that responsibility in the hands of a
few people, those people could, for instance, just intentionally drop the ball or walk away
with a large basket of money or something like that.
So you know, be discerning people, be very, very careful, create as much as you can yourself
and just, and with the people around you.
And, and if you don't have enough people around you, you know, put out the signals, put, you
know, put your fingers on the flare gun, you know, find a, make a meetup, you know, be
your own leader.
You're not looking for that parasocial relationship if you're being your own leader.
There's also just, there's a couple tools that I think can be identified that are really
helpful for people who are engaging with content online, because let's be real, that's not
going to go away anytime soon.
And it is a helpful tool if we can cultivate, you know, being in right relationship to it.
One is objectivity, that there's distance between you and the message or the individual who's
communicating the message.
If you know, you don't know the person personally, that there's enough time or thought put into
how was this designed and for what purpose, and that you can just take that space and
come, you don't just get swept via your emotions.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Like I like this, I'm going to share it or oh no, intercept, anti-vax or bad, you know,
that you can actually just look at the whole landscape to the best of your ability and
draw from that what's real and then also co-create in relationship to that content with your own
mind.
And another is trying to understand and be able to identify these levers.
So you mentioned censorship and the role censorship has played as a perfect example, because on
the one hand you had really intense censorship, still do, censorship, but then on the other
side it was used to immediately gain trust from people through messaging like the most
censored doctor, you know, medical censorship.
I'll give you one example.
There's a guy, Jason Sherka, he's kind of like a new agey, whether he means to be or not,
he's definitely guru status and he's got this whole huge platform at this point.
It's all very new agey and he has this light system.
I don't know, he's got some story where there's like a whistleblower who's like part of an
alien race and Jason Sherka has chosen to like represent them in the world or whatever.
And there's these videos where he's interviewing this whistleblower and it's like all the voice
changed, sounding all weird and like dark.
You can't see the face under a hood and this supposed alien being says like, you know,
why have you been chosen?
You've been chosen.
Why do they want to censor you?
Like you're so young.
And I saw someone else kind of doing an analysis of this video and this guy say like, wait
a minute, is Jason Sherka even actually censored?
And then like Googled and he has like Instagram, Facebook, all of it, you know, he's just got
this whole huge platform.
So there's just a perfect example of that's a lever because there's so many people here,
you're the most censored who just immediately fall right into that.
Like therefore I trust you because you're a victim of the establishment as well as I
am, which is real.
And if you have the amount of money coming in that you can afford someone to handle your
social media and there are all these different platforms available, then you're effectively
not censored.
So that's the way that leadership works the most on people who are not deriving some substantial
income.
Absolutely.
Right.
It's harder when YouTube shut down routing the earth, for instance, I still have a lot
of my educational videos that I still I just don't have all the extra time to go back and
upload them to rumble or put my education channel or something like that.
Right.
That's that's a several hour time cost and that will come at the expense of not doing
something else.
So it is it's much less effective on people who have money on who have some sort of monetized
stake in what's going on.
So if I could rewind, actually, we began a conversation and we're talking about where
did things begin right in order for you to ground yourself in the judgment of what it
is that you're watching.
How is it that it came about that America Frontline Doctors Media was located in Israel,
given that they were created as in as like an America first type of image as an organization?
That is a mystery.
I have to tell you, it is a mystery.
And we don't know.
I don't know if it was something Simone put into place.
I don't know if it was already there in place.
I'm assuming was put into place before she even got there.
That was just part of that was a piece of the pie.
So she may have just been chosen to play the role and somebody else was already creating
the the actual picture itself.
That's possible.
I read an article the other day.
I saw an article that made me rethink some of the way that I interpreted some of this,
which was it was an article specifically about Israeli intelligence.
But it was talking about how the tools of Israeli intelligence had been gradually like
leaking out, as in, you know, now you have like private security firms or you have people
who retire from these intelligence agencies and start their own like private intelligence
firm.
Right.
And suddenly they know all the tricks of the trade.
And if there's additional technology involved, maybe they have access to it.
And suddenly those people can run all kinds of campaigns and they can do it without caring
about what it is they say they care about, whatever kind of mission statement they can
do it to draw eyeballs to make money.
They can do it to draw eyeballs to collect data.
And as you've already said, you know, one point six million emails leaked from one organization
alone or at least that that's that's what we've heard with AFLDS.
You know, that is a lot of information to sell to advertisers or other people who want
that information in order to best figure out how to manipulate you.
And that may be the world that we're moving into is a constant game of defense of that.
And that is fifth generation warfare automatically, even without it trying to be.
Every time you see an influencer, every time you see an ad, every time you watch a podcast,
you should be wondering if if there's some sort of underlying motivation and and, you
know, like wondering that doesn't have to be an accusation.
It can just force you to spend more time thinking through what's being said.
Right.
Well, the cyber side is interesting, but the Israeli Defense Force is in control of the
U.S. cybersecurity.
They got the contract a couple of years ago and I've had people say, well, I'd rather
have Israel Israel, you know, have the cyber security contract than somebody else.
I'm like, I'm not secure with any nation, any other military be in charge of America's
cybersecurity.
I don't know what to tell you.
You know, it is interesting and granted, you know, Simone is we've talked about the Simone
Gold is Jewish, though she is her.
She really is hitting the the Christian churches hard for money, by the way, big time.
And so it's kind of like, you know, it's interesting she's doing this.
But she does have with her for profit business, a gold care.
If there's any disputes within the the business within the employees, she has she has them
sign this agreement that they they have to put forward their dispute before the Council
of Rabbis, which I just think is an odd thing to do, especially when people aren't Jewish.
She's the only person I think who's Jewish in.
And again, I have nothing against my partner's Jewish right.
I have nothing.
But it's it's Israeli Defense Force.
Right.
That's who I'm concerned with.
It's those connections and and the black ops.
That's who I'm the poor Israeli people have been eviscerated over the last few years.
They've been the biggest guinea pigs on the planet.
It's not about them.
It's about when it comes to intelligence agencies like the motivations there, you know, always
look different.
You know, who are they really serving?
You know, I'm sure, you know, Truman basically so much as said, you know, this is this, you
know, the CIA had become a policy making arm in the US.
You know, just not not that I'm deep into the topic, but it certainly seems that Israeli
intelligence is kind of that way in Israel as well.
Yeah, I'm also not deep into the topic, but I will say that there were like many markers
over the course of the last two years of my research that connected America's frontline
doctors to Israel, to to Israeli intelligence and to the idea.
And I believe that I remember reading that her father was actually ex IDF.
And he also was like the county commissioner of health in Orange County, New York, which
is just a couple of counties away from me.
And if, you know, people really wanted to, they could go and look at the Heritage Foundation.
They could go look at Alec.
They could go look at, you know, some of these kind of deep state on the right organizations
and PACs and see that there's a real collaborative spectrum there between, you know, United States
politicians and policymakers and Israeli within that crowd.
So you know, it's probably and she worked with Michael Oren, right?
And so that that was a that was broke by Mother Jones, actually.
But that's also that's a high level really.
That's a relationship with a high level Israeli politician.
Very high United States.
And you can't discount at all.
You cannot discount the generational connections, right?
Like if the father of the grandfather were involved with the IDF or the CIA or any of
that, you can't just simply assume that, you know, their grandchild, whatever, is not also
involved because those familial ties are really, really, really important.
They do like to keep it in the family.
And so when you do see those ties, you have to give them serious consideration.
I just want to say one more note on the in relationship to this, like the birth of America's
frontline doctors and how much that matters, even if we just backed it up to political
influencers around Trump, if we're in agreement with the message, does that actually matter?
And I think just in general, for people who want to kind of hone some capacity with relationship
to content online and on screens, another is to explore the multifaceted nature of truth
because the message of something can be true, but the vehicle of it in a way, the context
can actually not be true and also the intent that it's layered.
And so if you have a message that speaks to you, that content of which is true, but the
intent behind that message is deceitful, then the question is, is that actually true?
That's what we're facing.
That's exactly what we're facing.
At the very least, the truth of that may be who it is that you give your support to.
So a message can be true, but if the medium is something that you then trust and the medium
is what steers you, that may be one example of that, which you said.
Any other thoughts before we go?
Have we covered everything that we know about America's frontline doctors or everything
that at least we think is the relevant news?
What's going on there?
Yeah, with AFLDS, it's moving forward, as I said, it's a bit volatile right now internally
because they've got a clean house and they've got to keep their ethical standards high and
they've got to pursue justice with Simone Gold and call this out.
And I believe from what I've been gathering, they have been doing that.
And in fact, there is, if you want to see, there is a report that was put out on the
14th actually of March by the Oversight Commission of AFLDS.
If you go to medicalfetum.org, just go there and you can actually download their most recent
report and get exactly their action items, what they've done so far, what they've accomplished
and what they are in the middle and the throes of right now.
It will be interesting to see how much internal conflict there is over that path given that
with that much going on, there's probably multiple factions.
And I'm sure that Simone Gold had friends inside and I'm not saying that I think she's
in the wrong necessarily.
I have my opinion, but I'm happy to watch and let it play out.
But thank you so much for joining us and sharing all of this.
And I hope that people use this to have some sense of how to navigate because it is a
more and more complex world at the moment.
Well thank you, Matthew.
Thanks for the opportunity.
And Kristen, it's always great to see you.
Yes, you too.
Thanks for having us on, Matthew.
And we'll see what unfolds.
All right.
Well we'll wrap things up.
I'm going to look and see comments real quick, see if there's anybody who has any questions
that need answering.
It looks like we're good.
We'll see you again another time.