Hello everyone and welcome to episode 100 and
1230 you 40 you don't know 100 and something
Wow what no no it was on my it was on my um oh fucking hell where
I'm sorry because I just don't listen to it 112 episode 112 of the what's the button podcast is here
nice ready for your ears and I have um the the wonderful the beautiful the humorous the lovely
the exciting the incredible the fascinating
what are you after oh I'm sorry I spoke earlier sorry who is it sorry I didn't hear who's with
who's with you oh well I said your full name oh right okay less of that Steph
Steph is here um and for our conversation today I figured we would just talk about the lovely
lovely lovely lovely lovely lovely Elder Scrolls online and probably World of Warcraft probably
other massive multiplayer online games because I feel like that's a relatively decent talking point
for us go on then well it's hard go speak monkey I'm not really playing it at the moment I don't
re-download it with every intention I just don't have fucking time I really haven't had time um
but yeah I don't I I over to you really because you you need to get me going and then I'll allow
me to lead the conversation yeah allow me to lead you into the forests okay I'll go anywhere
with you it's creepy isn't it I don't mind we and um so as I'm sure many many of the people
listen to this will will know I've been playing MMOs for a very long time specifically one MMO in
in being World of Warcraft and you with games like that that take up such a big portion of your gaming
life there's inevitably always going to be other games that come out that perceive themselves to be
said game killer oh this game's the World of Warcraft killer this is the COD killer this is
the FIFA killer there's always when you have something that sits at the at the the precipice
of everything um there's always competition and I feel like I've had a very consistent playtime
through WoW there's two expansions that I completely missed due to just not having um a computer at the
time and when you break an addiction usually you stay out of the addiction which is what happened
my laptop was well my my PC at the time was was just not capable of playing World of Warcraft anymore
um it was Legion and Warlords of Draen or the expansions I missed out on um and when they did
come out I just wasn't massively interested in returning I was so heavy into BMXing at the time
that that just took up all of my spare time it was work go out and ride go to sleep rinse and repeat
so never really went back for for two and a bit years but in those two and a bit years obviously
that is always at the back of your mind because I'm still a gamer so there's always that that very
specific itch that's at the back of your head when it comes to playing an MMO it's it's nothing like
any other sort of game you can play God of War you can play um Call of Duty you can Ratchet and Clank
they they have a they have a lifespan Call of Duty maybe not so much because it is a live service
predominantly multiplayer game um to the point where some of the Call of Duty's that come out
just didn't have a campaign on them full stop because it's just multiplayer um so maybe exclude
that from the list but something like WoW when you're not playing it and you know that at the
moment at that moment you don't specifically want to go back to WoW you end up looking at other other
MMOs out there because the ideology being that if this game is fucking massive and millions and
millions of people play this one but also millions of people play this other game then there must be
something about it that that makes it so good and I feel like the the big ones are World of Warcraft
Final Fantasy um online Elder Scrolls online um Path of Exile and obviously I delved into
Final Fantasy and you'll remember when I was like oh yeah no this is gonna this is gonna take over
WoW this is this is gonna be the game that gets me away from World of Warcraft almost like talking
about it as if I didn't like World of Warcraft and it's like it's gonna be a thing that this
the new shiny thing that's very similar to WoW so therefore it's not fucking scary and overwhelming
um and that lasted all of about a month and then thrusted straight back into WoW because I was like
everything I hate about this game is fucking perfect in this one so back I go and for quite
a while to be fair um we were heavy into Elder Scrolls online and I feel I feel a bit um not upset
but a bit no yeah I'd say probably upset because it's the first I feel like where we where we've
been together for for a long time and we always say how we it's not it's not recent stuff it's
riff it's one person or that we we were a hive mind um and obviously we share the the the same
interest in in in gaming and most of the stuff that we do in life so no wait where's the dog
hey you're not going anywhere back on the the chair on the wooden bench go on no oh come on
let me pause it yeah let me pause it hold on sorry I had to had to put the dog back in the kitchen
to stop her from escaping from us completely ruined my mojo whatever the fuck I was talking
about you're saying about how it was um we've been together and we're the same we're very much the
same love me loads have you loads so you you've ever said love you loads you know we never really
said lots and lots yeah I love you loads because we're not because we're not six um and the
the I feel like for for people that are gamers being able to share your hobby with with the
person that you love is is a a very nice thing to be able to do or not even necessarily share it
with that person but having the put the person that you spend the majority of your life with
support that because I know there's a lot of there's a lot of men and women out there who are
who are serious gamers and their partners just don't understand that and almost see it as a
as a childish thing when the majority of people especially people who are actually gamers
understand that it's just a form of entertainment for most of us but for a lot of us as well it is
your it's your life like it it very much um carves a lot of what you do in the world and and and your
likes and your passions revolve around gaming and I've always wanted to I have this game that I play
consistently like at least five days a week and I spend a lot of time in in this game not to the
point where I can't separate myself from the game but I'm always thinking about it I mean I love this
game I I love it loads loads and loads and loads and I love the people that I that I that I meet
playing it and I've I've made lots of friends playing World of Warcraft and I've um stopped
talking to a lot of friends that I've that I've met through World of Warcraft not through like
anything um bad just lost contact with these people but I'm in a point now where there's just
this massive community that I'm I'm very much a part of in the in the guild hoofs and hoes in that
I I I can't even remember joining that guild but I I whenever I did join them it's quite a big guild
and you feel almost you're the new guy you know I mean and most of the times when you join a guild
unless you're actively talking to people you you're just sitting on the sidelines yeah and
I've been passively getting involved with with everyone in the guild with with with Connor with
Joe with with Aston um and there's this like I say this this real big sense of community like
I'm a part of something like so I was made an officer of the guild in in some respects or given
the ranking that's that's similar um and we're all friends and there's new people joining this
guild and and and and we're becoming friends with those new people like talk about John I've known
I've known the guy for fucking almost like a month and that's it meeting him like that you
know I mean um and it's I'd love to be able to share that with yourself but obviously you're not
World of Warcraft doesn't we've tried before and it we have tried before and it just doesn't
oh no it's not my bad dream is that a wash about come straight in
in he's going away he's going away nice okay you're right yeah so obviously we've tried to
play World of Warcraft together before and it just the like you almost had the same problem with ash
and that that mouse and keyboard but that was when we were like that wasp was going to come
flying straight in isn't it is it a bee no it's a full-on wasp go away please go away I'd like to
shut the door away with you away he's gone he's flown away away cool um I'll keep that one shut
and leave that one okay um a bit of danger it wouldn't it wouldn't have been so bad if I hadn't
had that bad dream last night sorry understand what's fine dream nightmare nightmare anyway um
we were very we were playing ESO at that time as well though and like I think in the same way that
the other way around if you've got something that you're into and you enjoy like exactly what you
said there final fantasy and you think I was more comfortable and like enjoyed mechanically
the combat style was completely different well I'm just like moving around in the quest and art
style and yeah so but I mean like I wouldn't it's hard because it's like not in an argumentative
way you want me to play your like your thing I won't play yeah yeah no yeah but I don't know
not even won't play I mean like you you know how it feels you do not want to really play that but
someone else really wants you to um because the point that I was trying to make is that um
obviously World of Warcraft isn't hasn't really worked out in in both of us being able to play
it together but Elder Scrolls did it did yeah for a long time and arguably still would it's just
that where it's trying you can't juggle two MMOs or I know a lot of people can but I I myself and
I know you won't be able to juggle two of them do you know what I think might change things
potentially is and I don't really know it's a bit of a pipe dream because money wise I don't know
where we'll be at but um because obviously I'm going to need my computer upstairs but having
maybe being able to play next to you know you see those couples and they've got like these
fucking dench setups and they're right next to each other like I think from a wi-fi point of
view a connectivity point of view even from like a an actual performance point of view on what we
are playing on whereby you're you know we're in the middle of a dungeon yours is fine mine oh no
I'm lagging oh no it stopped oh no yeah because you're in like the dark zone of the fucking
bedroom and then it was like trying to get a fucking headset to work um whereas I think
potentially in like you know the near somewhat near future maybe it's something to say we say
like here and we can see each other's screen you know you can just look over and go oh yeah from
an explanation point of view rather than having to get up and then change rooms and go no look
you need to be there blah blah blah not that you have finished but yeah um yeah potentially maybe
there's maybe there's a sort of potential there but then at the same time I think like I couldn't I
don't feel like I could join your guild because that's I don't know why that's just like I don't
know I don't know but I reckon you could because they really like you because because obviously
they they a few of them listen to the podcast um and it it comes up quite a fair bit in conversation
like with with Connor who's our raid leader who who had had a what's the buttons t-shirt made
um and then got one made for Joe as well and that's like uh that's a really nice and not a
nice way of showing support for something that one of your pals does is I didn't know that they were
doing that um and yeah they they they know you they've they've spoken to you they've heard you
um so I don't think there'd be a doubt that that you would that you would get on with those people
but then I wouldn't want to um because there's also lots of women in the guild as well yeah but
I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want to I say lots the proportion is very fucking one-sided but there
are women in the guild I found it I don't know how relevant this is but like I'll be quick
like when so obviously Meg and me and Meg were friends in primary school then we went to separate
secondary schools but stayed in touch but then we went to the same college right but what happened
with with college was that all a lot of my secondary school friends also went to that college
so then we became this and then some of Meg's secondary school friends also went to college
so it's like a big huge group but what I found was and it wasn't like a big big problem but
previously I had a place where okay I'm not that I was two different people but you say like I've
got my secondary school friends oh you're getting my nerves it's okay I'll go to Meg but then all of
a sudden this group had been like merged and I had I no longer had like this separate friend group
all I said like so how like in the patreon you went oh yeah my lot and you think but you've got
you've got your lot the guild lot then you've got your lot your work lot and then yeah and like that
I do think and so like as do I I've got you know you got your secondary school friends you got work
friends you got college friends you got uni friends whatever um but yeah it's something where like I
would hate that say like I joined it and then you might you know but then I mean the beauty of it is
is like I work on a wednesday night so I'd never but you know I mean like I I love that having seen
you being a wow guild that was incredibly unhealthy for you you know when you tried to when you ran
that guild um call of the void the void yeah about three or three years ago three or four years ago
really um and that was that was I was so upset for you because you were basically coming home
from work and then fucking going to work you were a HR manager you were a fucking like it was mad it
was wild and then like this has been to the point where you were literally like like fuck me you
looked rough you actually looked rough and then you were like you know what I'm done like I'm burnt
out I've had an I can't do this anymore um and that's really sad to see something that you know
has been such a such a long lasting and such a great love for you be actually we come up with
the name on a walk didn't we I know on that when we was walking around the marina wasn't it and it
was so so lovely and it started off so well and so exciting and it felt like this like natural next
step kind of thing and then yeah to turn so incredibly toxic and then basically have to
watch it be taken over and fucking decimated by furries ultimately yeah I think it was the
name was changed like furry squad or some shit like that and so that was so bad whereas like now
is so nice and so positive and so lovely and ultimately I think the word is healthy
yeah yeah I think it's because the the majority of the people that are in this guild they're
they're all of just a similar mindset and a lot of them are friends in real life um and we all
understand that we're all adults we've all got we're all working um and we've all got stuff outside
of world of warcraft so other shit takes priority and there's no animosity to it like if we're
raiding tonight and someone can't make it because something's come up there's no kicking off about
it it's very simple you go okay fair enough that's fine if you've got something else to do that's not
a problem because at the end of the day this is just a game it means a hell of a lot to all of us
but it is just a game um and if you've got to deal with shit outside of that then no one's going to
stop you from doing that and I think that was the that was almost the missing link in the call of
the void is that world of warcraft for the people they're in there I can't even remember half of
their names um but it was world of warcraft was everything to them it was crazy everything but it
was like but like I remember and you were like oh I've had a racial complaint I was like excuse me
yeah yeah yeah um someone's come to me and basically said that um yeah someone's been racist to them
and um I've got I'm thinking um you know I'll either give them a warning or I'll perhaps have
to kick them and then like next week it was like no the decision has been made by everybody that um
yeah we're going to kick this person and it was like are you being paid like what is this why are
you taking on all this fucking beef and I get okay fine yeah to you have to take it like you just said
it's a more chill laid back vibe but it's also like you do have to be serious about it to an
extent you have to be you know in the same way that okay so let's say you've got this spot um
people are somewhat relying on you and you go oh shit sorry I'm really sorry I can't make it I
don't feel well got a headache whatever or you know I've like when my card you had to come pick
me up um but then let's say okay you would you were then doing that eight raids in a row they
might go listen okay that's a bit annoying and like you're saying that you're going to be here
and you're not that's quite normal that's quite like a normal thing same as if you were going to
like a fucking pilates or a dance class that kind of thing you can miss one or two but
at the point when if you're in this dance routine and you're not there it's like okay this is quite
annoying at the end of the day we're gone no no but like that and that like you say there that was
missing that it was just fucking weird in like that you were having to well I think I think I
think I pretty much said it all like it's such a polar opposite and I don't think it necessarily
had anything to do with you being the leader of that like it was kind of just descended into this
it was just it was just crazy I I I me personally you felt responsible yeah as who I am I have a
a there's a thing in inside my head that makes me want to be in charge not in not in that kind of
way why we gotta look at me like that there's a thing within me where I am not happy being
just pottering about doing whatever I need to be doing whether that's whether that's in work or
or outside in a game whatever I don't want to not there's anything wrong with it if you
like from a work point of view you want to come into work you want to just do your hours and then
fuck off absolutely fine as long as you're doing you're doing the job who cares I don't care if
you're happy you're happy but I'm not happy doing that I want to I want to progress I want to fucking
get involved um and that is very much my mindset for a lot of stuff I almost selfishly like to be
somewhere in the middle of everything and but I I don't at the same time think I want to be
absolutely in charge um I like to have an important role in a lot of the stuff we do that I
think that's why like with my with work obviously I know I don't do it at the moment because of
where I've changed companies but in my old work where where I was that that protection role
I think that's why it felt so nice to be there because it's like right well in that situation
you're at the top you are in charge of everything that's going on here yeah everything everyone
and everything answers to you and you're in you're in charge of it and it runs smoothly
but you come away from that and once you're out of that situation you're no longer in charge you're
still you're you still are in charge but not in the same capacity anymore so you can step away
from that and I feel like with creating a guild I've always throughout my entire life were playing
well wanted to have a guild and I was part of a guild which is where I met Colin um who I don't
talk to anymore but not because we fucking fell out it's literally the geezer's got a family you
know I mean like and just grew up and he doesn't play well anymore so naturally you you do kind of
come apart um and he was running a guild and it was great I was young when I joined it and then
we were friends until I was a teenager when I joined that guild and then by the time I'd left
it I was a full-grown adult and he stopped playing well so therefore it was a toss-up between all
right well who's going to run the guild blah blah blah blah someone else started running the guild
who I think it might have been Ian that was running it who who again friends with um and then I left
and obviously stopped and then when I come back I was like I want to I think I might give this a go
and it's that sense of community and that you're building something like well you saw it yourself
when you start to get members joining your guild um organically and then those people are engaging
with you and wanting to be your pal and talking to you all the time then you're actually playing
the game with them it's so crazy because you play a an MMO all your life and most people that play
MMOs play them solo yeah it's a massively multi there's millions and millions of people playing
this game every single day and most of the people that you come across that play the likes of
World of Warcraft play on their own why that's the case it is I really can't explain it to you
case it is I really can't exactly pinpoint it um and it's the same with ESO it's the same with
Final Fantasy most people do just play on their own so trying to find that community is so fucking
difficult when it really shouldn't be and I wanted to create that and I did um I think at our highest
point it was what like 450 people were in that guild obviously not all fucking active and not
all talking but I think at its absolute pinnacle there was maybe like 90 odd 100 odd people that
were actively engaging in the guild um and yeah you feel you feel responsible for that because
it's like well I'm the person that's created all of this but fucking so much work man there's
there's so many different cogs that move within that machine where from an outside perspective
you'd think oh it's just a multiplayer game like why are people taking it so seriously
but it's the fact that it's there's so many different goals for something like World of
Warcraft that everyone can play to most people play to I want to do the end game content whether
it be raiding pvp whatever and for us it's raiding we want to clear the raid we want to do it before
the end of the season get ahead of the curve um and then the difficulties go from normal heroic
to mythic and we're not mythic raiders that's like hardcore shit and I've never done mythic
raiding before however this expansion we're talking about possibly doing mythic raiding or
at least sampling it because we've got a very good team behind us and we will work very well um and
yeah like I said from an outside perspective you wouldn't understand that most of us gain enjoyment
from doing the end game content well to do it properly you have to take it seriously because
otherwise you can't you can't physically do it so you have to gel well otherwise it's not going to
happen and I think to join a guild it then becomes like intertwined with your experience of that game
like well you are you are a good example of it you know you've had your good experience you've
had your bad experiences but I can't imagine like the responsibility in that yeah you if you've if
you've only ever just sort of like oh I joined and then actually oh I don't want to talk something
a bit shy or you know you are not available for them or I'm not you know like a lot of it is like
oh no sorry you have to be level 50 to join and all that shit if you're not got champion points
fuck off that kind of thing like I found an ESA like you peasant yeah but then like it can oh
there's a little squirrel he's got a big tail look there he goes oh oh sorry um you know but then I
think the like what I found playing alone um something like the dungeons which obviously
they're in this is ESO now for everyone is it um the experiences of the dungeons and obviously
there's quests in those dungeons and I do 100% get if you've done all of that which obviously a
lot of people have then yes you are going to just run it you're going to run through you're going
to kill you want to kill you're not going to worry about the little people because you want
you know the loot you want the end the end stuff but what I would love to do um which was what I
did enjoy when you and I were playing it because 99% well all of them really actually 100% of them
we were playing so at least you and I would sort of you know kind of do the quest but it's something
that without without something like a guild or you know either you know four people three people
three other people than yourself or you are in a guild where you can sort of go hey like please
can three people come and like run this with me but like do it at a slower pace where I can enjoy
the quest line at the end of the day all of ESO is voice acted very well I want to listen to it
yeah very very comprehensively and here I am blitzing through it not knowing what the fuck's
going on because if I listen to this person I am going to be you know well on my own and miss all
of it um and that's something that yeah I would love to love to do and like I feel like that is
a massive massive benefit of you know perhaps being being brave and and so it's like it's
certainly something that's out of my comfort zone because I just assume by default that everyone
like finds me boring and hates me that's like my baseline of everything is that I'm like really
really boring yeah here's a girl she must know fuck all let's let's let's treat her as such well
and it's like I there was I was in the town or city and you know like you get that little chat
like the city chat and this guy was being an absolute dick to a girl because she was a girl
and then I stuck up for her and then she added me and it was like that yeah go on girl and like we
didn't speak and last couple of times I've been on like I've never caught her online again but
it was something like that he's like oh and like I just to try and then like build on that um and
things like that like you can see how you do make like really genuine connections in these games
like even something as silly as that we obviously have a not just because we're two women but you
know I mean like that yeah that was like a little taste of something like you do find things that
you are genuinely interested in well even like Jack Owen at work is really nice because he
we uh he they didn't even want to invite him out we were going out from McDonald's and when he came
out and he was wearing a Baldur's Gate 3 t-shirt boom yeah well when we fucking met oh my god
exactly Assassin's Creed straight away because you you as gamers you have that that connection
yeah and they were all right here's something that we can talk about and then we can evolve
from that we I yeah with the ESO thing and the dungeons it's the same World of Warcraft it
it I'm doing it right now leveling and all fastest way to do it is to span through dungeons I've done
them before I'm not interested I just want to do it and that's my enjoyment from that at the moment
but when you're first playing it yeah I know what you mean because people want to rush that if you're
brand new and no one else is like with ESO people just blitz through it and it's it's it's not
it's not enjoyable for the new player but you you try and explain that to someone so like me for
example I'm trying to level up my evoker as quick as possible because I want to get it to 80 I want
to start gearing it up if every dungeon I go into people are then making it go slower because those
people then are interested in unfortunately I don't yeah unfortunately I don't want to do that I'm
not going to be a dick and have a go at you for it but chances are I'll stick around but if it keeps
happening then I'm going to lose patience and then I'll just leave and then find a group where I'm
I can blitz through it yeah but what what World of Warcraft has done is they I think Blizzard
Blizzard have done some some really stupid things in the past and and currently but one thing I will
hand to them is that with the war within they've made it extremely solo friendly yeah in that it's
very much still on a multiplayer game but if you are resigned to playing on your own and you don't
have a lot of time to play they've made it so much more accessible for those people and one one of the
main things for that is the dungeons so they've come out with follower dungeons yeah so you're
able to go in on your own playing whatever the fuck you want and your whole party will be made
of npcs yeah that's so good and then you've got a button which you can toggle on and off which will
say whether you want the npcs to lead the dungeon or they will move when you move so if you interact
with a with a mob they will engage and they will take over and then and then or they will just
lead it and then you follow them um and that's absolutely fantastic for a solo player but it's
also very good because they made it so that if you've got people that want to come with you
they can come with you so for example if you was doing a solo dungeon and i was to come with you
i would just fill one of those npc spots and then the rest of them would be npcs and then you can
take your time and you can learn what's going on without the aggro of oh shit other people are
going to get pissed off at me yeah and then you can work your way so so you get to experience
those dungeons exactly the same no difference yeah and you get to experience all those quests
and everything that's involved with it but on your own and at your own pace to allow you to get used
to everything else um which i think for a solo player is such a good direction to go in because
without that it's so overwhelming and i would be i would love to see see the statistics of
people who have tried to play something like wow like eso and and final fantasy and then have been
shunned away from that because they've come into this game no one's showing any patience towards
and they have no fucking idea what's going on and then they've left me and connor did the same thing
connor started playing wow he knows what he's doing he he's he's in he's a pc gamer he's
he's adept with a mouse and keyboard he he very much knows the fundamentals of of most games
so me and him um we delve straight into dungeons and then just like leveled him up to basically
max level through dungeons and it doesn't play anymore because obviously from a time point of
view but also i feel um it was overwhelming because he also picked the tank role which is very um
important for dungeons and whilst he was learning and did to a point know what he was doing he
wasn't being able to gain anything from it because everything was happening so quick but he was the
person that's in charge of the dungeon at the time and it it's just not a good way to play whereas
when when me and ash were playing world of warcraft i know it doesn't play anymore but i
seriously enjoyed it because i basically took over and slowed the pace right down so rather
than rushing through everything we didn't do done that many dungeons we did questing for the majority
of it and i worked on myself and actually forced myself to have more patience um and rather than
shouting at the geezer i sat down with him when i spoke about the game with him and the fundamentals
and the mechanics and i helped him through the character that he was playing and it was very
very enjoyable to see someone who's brand new to this game have no idea what the fuck they're
supposed to be doing but have that safety net of me next to him telling them exactly what they need
to worry about and what to do and then slowly watching them um understand world of warcraft
and understand how to play that game and then basically we got ash to a point where he was
enjoying the game without me yeah still needed me to help him but the base the very basics of the
game he was able to very much do on his own which i feel like is when you get to that point and you
can start exploring massively multiplayer online games is when is when you get to fall in love with
it yourself yeah because you get to see it from your own perspective which is what i loved when
we was playing eso together was because we were playing it completely differently and i think
it's interesting you say about like that that converse like comfort blanket of having that
someone there and i think i think well i know a lot of the comfort initially starting out with eso
is like that basis in skyrim and oblivion and you know you're in that same world and like i
remember i was so fucking excited because you could go to black reach and it was obviously like a
smaller version of black reach but it was just so it was like that nostalgia element of my fucking
god like i'm here again and like because you do you do feel like it's like going to you know your
favorite place you go on holiday these are places that you've spent so much time in um you know and
it is so immersive and such a so you know you have such a deep love for something um and yeah like
that that i think that i'd be interested to go like oh it's hard because i mean i unless they
invent like something new or i find something new like to go in with no link is so daunting
and i think yeah like for me where that came from is probably that like it felt familiar even though
it was like a new kind of thing um and it's certainly something like when it came out
whatever year that that came out i was like oh well i've got no friends so like i'm gonna try
like because in my mind it's something that yeah i i like to do with people and i think the reason
that i don't uh probably go into that now is because i am very like i like i love playing with
you and i don't i don't mean to make you feel guilty at all by the way because it's not like
the end of the day we've had no time either even if we were like you say you can't manage two mmo's
which i 100% get um and at the end of the day i i've barely touched any games lately because i've
just been so busy and like when you get in you're knackered and and whatever but that my ultimate
like goal if not with the so maybe maybe something else i don't know is to have is to like have a
guild and have like that that camaraderie and that friendship because i haven't whilst i do have friends
that um play play games uh gamers if you will not really if you know what i mean like you
it's probably yeah um and and that's something that yeah i would love to have there's so many um
resources out there for that kind of specific stuff which i feel like none of us really tap into
um a an mmo is there with plenty of people to play with but it doesn't really
set you up within the game to do that but but then you've got you've got things like like the
the world of warcraft facebook groups that i'm part of i don't use them i don't need to i i have
i have my community i'm sweet if i need to know anything i've got their i'm in the discord and
i'm there i've got so many people that i can pull from but when you don't have that those facebook
groups are absolutely imperative and the the amount of times like you say with the with the
the woman that you defended on on eso and then she added you as a friend and you felt like oh
shit like yeah let's fucking go yeah that that's the same with with most um mmos and there has been
loads of times that i've seen guild recruitments on one of the facebook groups and it's it's purely
women yeah or it'll be like i'm i'm i'm not saying that you just want to play with solely women
but obviously there's a there's a connection there that i don't think me as a man will ever understand
because i'm not i'm i'm naturally gaming is very much male dominated not as much as it used to be
but that's how it started so therefore i don't run into the same issues that you might do
i don't hold the same biases um i don't people don't see me and immediately think i'm going to
be shit because i've got a dick well it's like something that it really annoys me that it's
gendered in the first place in the sense of oh you're a gamer or a female gamer like what am i a
fucking like it makes no fucking difference but then but then but then but then you're you're
shunned if you're if you're not a fucking an eagle like the typical girl gamer and like it's like i
i find it interesting you think like so yeah when so say like with the but we were talking on the
patreon about um the patch that's come in uh for mods in three and like yeah i'm i'm not
people will some people i don't know will go oh yeah cool she's excited about the outfits
that kind of thing but like i don't even think that because like i don't really give a shit and
same as like this business of like classes and oh you need to be wearing this arm and like if i
went into my skyrim now i didn't give no fucks like in my mind it was like well no heavy armor's the
best because it's got the most fucking you know whatever it is you know what i mean like the
highest number yeah that's attributes but actually like i was an elf and really usually wear light
and like i get that now but like i was also a kid and i don't care like i was like yeah but that's
ugly and that's something that i'm always going to be same as even in boulder's gate and like the
classes and the best weapons you could use and stuff like that you think okay yeah but that
spear's really fucking cool and i want to give that and that and that's where something like
uh transmogrification so that you can yeah it's the workaround on that sort of stuff yeah yeah
i want you know and the outfitter yeah um and then so you go okay well it's not like i'm some
freak like they've invented that because people have a call for that yeah um because there's a
role play to it absolutely and some people like myself just like to look fucking cool exactly i
want to look cool i want to look really stupid yeah um but yeah hang on i'm gonna burp sorry um
yeah so it's it's it's something that hopefully i think like as i say we've not really had i know
we were sort of like panicking about because we're not really played that crazy amount of games
lately um and what to talk about and stuff but i think yeah i can see hopefully hopefully did you
see that thing it was like adulthood is just going it will slow down next week every week until you
die yeah yeah um but yeah it is something that i would love to like sort of delve into a bit more
and perhaps maybe get as i say like a more gaming central i'd i'd absolutely love if if you were
playing wow and you were a part of hoos and hoes as a as a guild but at the same time i would
i would be absolutely ecstatic with the idea of you playing something like eso and then finding
the same sort of shit that i've found i would absolutely love that because i feel like it it
gives you such a a better outlook and a much more excitement when it comes to playing these games
so much more than when you're playing on your own um and i feel like for majority of gamers that's
what we all strive for we're all fucking nerds that just want to play with other nerds to to
put it plainly and when you when you find an unbiased group of people that just so easy going
and are just prepared to help you out full stop that's it because you're a gamer i'm a gamer i
want to make sure that you stay a gamer and i want to stay a gamer so let's just fucking game
together and then we can continue doing that um and yeah just the idea of having that but
i perfectly understand that we're not in a situation at the moment where it totally works
well you think like it's not all made the same if you think like i know we've literally just
said about like how you you were in a wow guild now you were in a wow guild then you then prior
to that you're in a completely different like each one was an entirely different experience for you
yeah um you know both good and bad and um i think yeah you you you don't just go
for the first one that you find or like you think oh maybe i can try and make this work or stuff
like that like you do have to sort of put in that put in that effort to sort of find where you where
you are happy and and like what works for you which is going to be different and it's going
to be different at different points in your life as well there's going to be times when you know
you've able you you were able to do i don't know fucking six hours a day every day there's other
times where it's going to be like shit i've not even played this week and and yeah finding
something which i feel like i think you have where it allows you to also live your life and and not
you know you know that they're going to be there to come back to and that i think is really lovely
yeah you're just involved because even if you're not playing it you're still able to talk about it
yeah and that's perfectly normal when it's your hobby when that when that when that's your excitement
being able to engage in conversation like um like with this episode i know that when this
releases the first thing i'm going to do is i'm going to send it to everyone in that discord
because when they all found out that i run a podcast and you talk about gaming naturally they
want to know what episodes you're talking about world of warcraft and there's not that many i know
i've spoken about wow a lot on the podcast but actual episodes that are revolving around it
yeah absolutely they're not there this will be probably the first one of that eso and world of
warcraft um and being able to to talk about it and all the different things and the changes and stuff
that happen within the game week by week to be able to discuss that with like-minded individuals
and then also see a different perspective from said individuals is it's just really really nice
like you say it's you've got your workmates you've got your fucking gamer mates and you've got your
whatever mates and like these are these are my my gamer friends you know i mean they're there but
there's i don't really know what i'm trying to explain there um it's just nice isn't it yeah
it's just like when we went uh comic-con and and like when we went in october and obviously
we sort of had like a little what's the buttons crew vibe going on versus then when we went in
the may obviously as it as it worked out you guys walked around together meg and i walked around
together and it was still a good time and it was like a good time in a different way um because
obviously me and meg share a lot of interests and and it was nice to have a catch up and spend time
and stuff but the at the same time i really liked when we went around in october because you are
seeing the the the things that excite people and what what everyone's into and you know learning
about each other and talking about those things with like with new people getting to know people
like that is is lovely you know and i mean i don't obviously we don't know if we're going to be going
in october hopefully we will hopefully um and like that's that's as much as i'm excited to see all
the staff i'm also like it's who you're with as well like i found really lovely both times um
because it is that it is kind of a rare thing to um to get to just like fully talk about it you
know that no one's judging you you know that like you're all there for the same reasons um and it
just baffles me like that i'd never been before that you think i always used to yeah yeah and then
yeah like it's i wouldn't even fucking looking at it like i didn't even know that it was done in
london oh my god yeah no i don't think it was always but like i remember when it did come and
it was like oh my god like so cool but it was something that everyone else did you know i mean
it was like it was like oh that's not something that i can do for some reason it felt like i
couldn't do that um but then that's also a point where like social anxiety wise and general general
anxiety wise like it was just like oh no no no no no no no like i'm not i'm not qualified to
attend this event for some reason is what it felt like like i i'm nerdy but like am i nerdy enough
and then actually you go and who fucking gives a shit like no one cares you know i mean it is a
spectrum for a reason same as like like i was just saying like with the you know oh you know this build
for this character is great oh that's cool yeah perfect but i like that one you know and actually
i okay fine yeah maybe i'd find it easier to kill this boss with this build but i still killed them
and i had i enjoyed myself so yeah does it i know it matters but does it also really matter that much
if you if you if you are enjoying yourself and you're um you know whether you're making friends
not making friends you'll have you know you're spending your time in a way that you like play
the game how you like it and and don't necessarily worry about whether someone feels that you're
playing that game properly or not i feel like that's just well like i've said to these a lot
before and in in the guild like we all pay our money every month to play this game this is a
live service game that you have to you have to pay a subscription every month to play a world of
warcraft it's not like eso when you can play it for free without the benefits it's you're paying
for the game and then you're paying a monthly subscription for it so it's like i'll play it how
i want to play it if me playing it means i'm going to play the meta of the class i'm playing so the
it's been ran for a fucking simulator and these these abilities are the best and this will give
you the best output if that's how i enjoy playing it which most of the time is then that's what i'm
going to do but at the same time like what you just said if you enjoy playing a build that isn't
the meta then who gives a fuck yeah play it i mean yeah at the end of the day if you're if you're
trying to get into heroic raids or something like that yeah you're gonna need to fine tune it yeah
and you're you're way behind the fucking curve because of the build that you're using then then
yeah fair enough because at that point you're you're impacting other people's play because it's like
well this is now an organized team that that that you're involved in where you're you're actively
bringing that down but that's a really really serious like elite case which is so like we're
at the point now where we're we've got the last boss on heroic today hopefully we'll kill it
um and then it runs on to well if your main character doesn't need the get like new gear you
start bringing an alt character because then you've still got like two-thirds of a team where they're
sat up there so they can fucking carry everyone else through it it doesn't matter so if you want
to experiment and you want to you want to change up then that's the time to do it because you've
got a load of people there where they're not going to give a fuck because it's not they've got what
they want so now let's help everyone else out if you want to fuck around let's fuck around why not
so yeah i don't really know why we're talking about that bit
no me either it's just been an endless thought stream yeah yes so is very good for that in
allowing you to obviously it has its matters but it's very good at allowing you to do what you like
world of warcraft not so much because the if you're if you're a shaman that wears mail
you wear mail that's it you're not wearing leather you're not wearing cloth you can't wear a plate
physically want that you do it and you're locked to specific weapons and shields and things like
that because that's how the game is designed yeah but then that's when trans transmog runs into and
you want to make yourself look different than you can um and that's where you kind of had that lock
um not so much freedom as the likes of eso and final fantasy but it's a system that works yeah
for that game and everyone likes it but yeah hopefully in the future if we get our own place
that's something that i would definitely look into is having because i'd love to be able to to to
game side by side because that's something that we've never had before no ever we've had it where
we're not far apart but there's still a fucking wall separating us and they can't hear each other
properly and the internet's shit in one corner but great in the other um so yeah that would be
that would be really cool to have that and then see what that evolves into but let's get off these
wooden benches and fucking go into a nice cozy house my ass is numb well thanks for listening
everyone see you later