Oh, God. Oh, my God. What's a tapache? It's a
fermented pineapple drink. It's actually really
good. Yeah. All right. They're kind of addictive.
But they don't make you feel sick like the...
Oh, there's no probiotics. Oh, right. Like kombucha.
Kombucha. Wait, probiotics make you feel sick?
That's backwards, isn't it? They can. Oh, okay.
If you're sensitive. I'm sensitive. I mean, the
thing I don't like about kombucha is the scoby
itself. It's gross. Yes, what? The scoby. Oh.
the scobies are pretty repulsive what's a what's
a biscovy a scoby is like part of the kombucha
brewing process oh okay no no no i know the mother
yeah yeah yeah exactly it's the sourdough like
pillow bacterial pillow is a good way of putting
it yeah i don't like that or duvet it's a bacterial
duvet remember when blake was still making uh
booch all the time and he was like trying to
like give it away in the end because he's like
nobody's taking my kombucha and i have too much
at home sorry man nobody likes kombucha that
much it's not that hot for the booch it had its
moment and go on get yeah so um right before
we hopped on we just were all like this movie
made us feel pretty uncomfortable yeah yeah that's
good I hope the FBI has like a whole lot of cuck
chairs for when they watch all of my videos.
Oh, my God. Self -contained. Gross. It is. It's
so gross what I do. The things I have to do to
get me there. Sean. I'm not even going to try.
Welcome back to Cage Match. Calling around about
Wade meeting Nicolas Cage. I'm Sean here with
Nick. And producer Peter. Hello. We've reached
a whole new level of not trying. There was no
clean break from what you were saying. I'm like,
I'm not even going to try. Let's just get this
over with. Just climb out of the cup chair. And
we're joined by our friends and guests. Elizabeth.
And Freeman. Yeah, Freeman, welcome back. Elizabeth,
welcome for the first time. Thank you. Hi, Elizabeth.
Hello. I'm glad you picked a movie about... creepy
nsa spying yeah yeah well i i work in data privacy
so it's perfect i actually i know more about
this than uh than your average person and i watched
the movie and was like yeah yeah yeah it's worse
now oh it's so much worse it's so much worse
now ai's so good at matching things together
yeah yeah before we get there uh we're this week
we're talking about oliver stone's snowden Yeah,
2016. Joseph Gordon -Levitt. Who did a weird
voice. Yes! But he does kind of sound like Snowden.
You think so? A little bit. I don't know. Snowden's
got a pretty monotony robot voice. It felt like
he was trying to force himself an octave lower
than normal, and it was too much. Yeah, Josie
had some issue with his voice as well. I guess
it felt very on point. With a lot of the privacy
engineers that I work with, I was like, oh, yeah,
this is this is normal. That's OK. That guy exists.
That's all right. That's all right. Perfect.
I love that. There's a time. I loved how throughout
the film, like later on in the film, when you
see like the other people who are working with
him in like data security and I say, see, like
whenever like it shows like the nerds, you just
like and here are extras from the Big Bang Theory.
Yeah. Yeah. So the other cast, Shailene Woodley
as Lindsay Mills. uh my favorite though was reese
uh ifans as the like um corbin o 'brien the like
director he's fucking good that guy's got a weird
head and i say that every time i see him in a
movie and i always enjoy him in movies but he's
got a weird head i can't get over him basically
always being like a soccer hooligan and everything
i see and then this he was like a really buttoned
up like spook i prefer a zipped up spook yeah
I didn't have anything for that. Spooksuit. Spooksuit
riot. LaKeith Stanfield. I love that guy. He's
so fucking good. His buddy who does the sign
language at the in Oahu. Yeah. Yeah. I like him.
I think I always like him in pretty much everything.
I like how cool he was about stepping on the
evidence. Oh, yeah. Keeping it keeping it clean.
Do a solid. Yeah. I will say Snowden leaving
the base and him getting the chip out of there.
The SD card in the Rubik's Cube. And he like
tossing it to the guard and be like, you ever
try one of these? I'm like, that's that's a cool
spy move. He did a spy, everybody. I did like
the other guard when the other guard gets a hold
of the Rubik's Cube. It's like his solution to
try and solve this to break it. I don't know.
That's kind of the way I solved them whenever
I did. I just took the stickers off. Yeah, take
all the stickers off and put them back in the
right order. I'm like, perfect. Duh. You guys
suck at this, man. Well, and it felt appropriate
to create that cinematic tension. Like he's going
to break the cube open and find the SD card right
there or something. Right. Yeah. Well, OK, so
Elizabeth and Freeman, do you want to do a top
level summation of this movie for us? Freeman.
Completely unredacted. Yeah, exactly. Well, let's
see. We start off with Snowden trying to join
the Army Rangers and breaking his leg. His glass
legs. Yeah, yeah. Just getting out the top bunk.
Exactly. That scene grossed me out so bad. Oh,
yeah, yeah. I don't know. I crushed a bone in
my foot as a kid, so I was kind of related. I
was like, ooh. Anytime I see a leg going the
wrong direction, I'm just like, no. That's sad.
And so then the medical doctor says, you know,
thanks, son, but you can serve your country another
way. So he goes and actually joins what the the
CIA formally gets hired there. And then after
kind of working his way up a little bit, requests
what like field training? I guess I'm skipping
the part where he's what at the. Or am I getting
that out of order? No, you've got this in the
right order. I mean, I think the only thing he
missed is that he does that like long test for
Corbin O 'Brien. He does it in like 40 minutes
or whatever. Yeah. 38. Yeah. 38. So then he ends
up, what, in Geneva? Mm -hmm. And that's where
he first gets his kind of scope of the magnitude
of the dragnet that's going on. Because the whole,
the X search or the X type. Yeah, X key code
or something. Yeah, exactly what it's called.
Yeah, X code. That was kind of terrifying. Oh,
and we get, what's his name? Fucking my favorite
actor. Timothy Oliphant? Yeah, he's great. He
always looks like the most smug motherfucker
in the entire world. Yeah, that guy gives me
the real kind of sleazy vibe. Yeah, he plays
a sleazeball really well. Yeah, he would sell
you his own mother. I mean, what kind of condition
is she in? Low mileage. Okay, cool. I have need
of secondhand mom, actually. Don't we all? And
he flunks out of that horribly because he gets
kind of all freaked out. He didn't like the consequences
of his actions. Yeah. People got hurt. Yeah,
like they basically pushed a teen girl to harm
herself and all to put pressure on some banker.
Yeah. And so then what? He gets his negative
marks, and he basically leaves the CIA, but no
one throws him in jail or anything, so that's
good. What's a D -Rog? I should have looked that
up. It's a derogatory comment on your card. That's
what it is. I had to look it up. It's just a
slur. Yeah, it's a D -Rog. It's kind of like
a D -Mark, a D -Rog. Yeah, okay. In the corporate
world, is that like a performance improvement
plan? Is it like a PIP? That's kind of what I
was thinking, yeah. It's just your... permanent
record yeah it all goes down there they're gonna
know when you apply for college that you were
a bad cia spook and and so because he's a geek
that can't uh get away from all this then he
decides just to go to defense contractors doing
kind of the same crap yeah uh which seemed a
little weird yeah it's like i have a problem
with what i do so i'll just do it somewhere else
it's like what's what do you what do you think
that's really gonna change i thought he was just
like selling Oh, yeah. He was just like a salesman
or something. Yeah. Like teaching people the
basics of what he did, not necessarily doing
it. But that seems like a character flaw. Like,
I don't like what I'm doing. Let's just double
down and do it somewhere else. Yes. Which his
girlfriend picks up on later. She's like, why
the fuck are you doing this? And actually jumping
way back to when they were first walking around
in Washington, D .C. on their first meetup. I
wasn't thinking about this as like a real true
story. I was thinking about this as some cinematic.
And all of a sudden I started getting the vibes
from her that like, she's like a spy herself
and this is all going to go sideways or something.
It was really weird. Their first interactions.
It made me feel like something weird was going
on. I got the same vibe. I also like, she shows
up with the camera and stuff. I'm like, she's.
she's a double agent i've also been watching
a lot of ponies so i got spy on the brain yeah
it definitely was something that didn't quite
like flesh out throughout the whole movie like
the like how willing he was to get his photo
taken in the beginning versus in the end uh yeah
it it doesn't get um as much to it as it probably
needs to to make it worth having in the film
well and it felt like The whole relationship
arc was so rushed. I mean, it felt like, are
we on their first date and they're kissing? I
mean, that doesn't generally happen. Listen,
they both like the same anime. You can go straight
to kissing. That's good. You have a point. You
have a point. Some geek finder. I mean, come
on. That's right. It's true. I got the impression
that that was their only message. yeah like she
ragged him he was like oh ha ha and then they're
on a date like because when he's in the cafe
those are still the only messages on that app
hey shared interest man i bet he just did a screen
capture to relive the moment as someone who's
familiar with the dating apps now like that was
a much simpler time There was that moment in
the coffee shop before she shows up and it like
the door opens and a woman walks in and I'm like,
oh, that's Lindsay Mills or whatever. And it's
not. Then it switches to her showing up, Shailene
Woodley. But apparently the person that does
walk through the door is Lindsay Mills, the real
one, like the real person. They just had her
do that for some reason. So there's that weird
moment where it like holds on her crossing the
coffee shop. And I was like, who the fuck is
that? yeah bizarre i guess i guess she can travel
to uh wherever they were filming freely versus
uh mr stone who could not well yeah that's a
good point i was wondering throughout this entire
movie and we do see it in the end but i'm like
when are they actually just gonna switch to like
showing us like the actual snowden when are they
gonna do that little the camera trick to go from
joseph gordon levitt to snowden i'm like and
they did and i'm like damn Yeah, when they pull
off the movie screen theater in the end and Snowden's
just sitting there applauding. Hell yeah. When
when Freddie and the Scooby gang like take off
Joseph Gordon Levins mask and it's been Snowden
the whole time. Oh, yeah. And then they take
off that mask and it was Shia LaBeouf. It would
be him. I will say the best part about this movie
is Shia LaBeouf's not in it. Oh. I still love
Shia LaBeouf. I say that about every movie Shia
LaBeouf's not in. Because it is the best part
of every movie he's not in. I fucking hate Shia
LaBeouf. I don't like him as an actor, but I
like him as a weirdo. He's a quality weirdo.
I want Shia LaBeouf and Finn Wolfhard to fight
to the death. And then I'll just beat up whoever's
left after they're already mostly beaten to death.
Alright, I'm going to circle right into this.
You think you could take on Shia LaBeouf in a
fist fight? After he's been beaten nearly to
death? Maybe. You think Finn Wolfhard's going
to beat him nearly to death? He's going to be
rock hard and covered in Wolfhard blood. And
you're going to have to fight a fully erect,
blood -soaked Shia LaBeouf. He'll be too slippery.
You're right, I can't do this. Yeah, you won't
be able to hold on to him. I don't think this
looks good for you, Sean. Nothing I say looks
good for me. I'm going to put it on your tombstone,
too. He was beaten to death by a rock hard, blood
soaked Shia LaBeouf. Like we always knew he would
be. Yeah, exactly. As it was foretold. You called
your shot. This is you from the plate pointing
to. the wall for the home run. This is this is
it. I don't die. But you know what? It is my
one wish to die in a real funny way. So that'll
count. There you go. Well, I just know that he
hasn't been doing a lot of acting lately, so
he might be able to use 50 bucks. And if 50 bucks
will do it, Shia LaBeouf, I got 50 bucks right
now in a bucket of blood. Are you like just restarting
bum fights or something? What's going on here?
I'd be pretty cool, but I would just be offering
liquor then. That's a good point. And sad. Yeah,
Bumfights was sad. Yes. I mean, it's sad now.
All right. So where were we? Lindsay Mills. Oh,
I don't know. So we're back now. We're working
contract work. The movie takes way too long.
It is. It's kind of a long movie. Was it two
hours, 10 to 14? I think the credits is 214.
Yeah. There's a lot of noise in the middle that
really does not need to be there. Yeah. Oh. Hold
on. How about that noise at the end when they
do the musical recap of it? That end song. It
was about the Snowden thing. Oh, my God. That
he wrote for this movie. Yeah. Peter fucking
Gabriel singing the Snowden like recap theme.
The veil. Oh, my God. I missed that. I turned
that off. I was just. Oh, Sean, go back and listen
to that. It's so bad. We watched the entire credits
just to listen to the whole song. There's an
ocean. I was going to make my normal joke about
how they made a rap about it and they fucking
did. And I missed it. Yes. It's actually a slow
jam. It's something you could fuck to. You could
fuck to it for sure. Would you want to? No. Is
it worth trying? Maybe. Is Shia LaBeouf there
in the cuck chair? Yeah. Rock hard. Rock hard.
Covered in blood. Shia LaBeouf. Okay. So. contract
work it's contract work uh and that just carries
on all the way until what he does a really good
job at the the backup program and then and then
they they offer him a promotion to go to hawaii
and that creates what conflict uh with uh that
seizure well yeah there's that the seizure happens
i think before he's honest about the hawaii job
or did it happen no it happened right after he
told her right after he said the about the hawaii
job then he fell over in the kitchen right because
then there was the belief of like oh maybe a
warm relaxing environment would help with all
of this yeah sure so we should go to hawaii and
it just got worse and there he just gets what
super deep into uh the cauldron and realizes
that they have access to pretty much everything.
And are using his tool that he developed for
shit reasons. Yeah, and they're monitoring like
seven times more Americans than they are like
Russians or other foreign peoples. dhs is awesome
well and then and then the the the subtle hints
from people uh about them watching him and his
girlfriend or watching the girlfriend and keeping
the eyes on her that really sent him uh scrambling
which rightfully so yeah like his father figured
telling him that like yeah your girlfriend's
not fucking that guy yeah yeah that makes me
feel super comfortable knowing that you know
that buddy yeah You just have that as like on
hand information. OK, that scene, though, I did
really like that with the video call between
his boss, Corbin O 'Brien. Oh, the whole wall
and like the wall. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's just
this giant fucking head. Yeah. Leading into the
camera while while being the big head. That one,
it was pretty tense, especially because he is
being like, yeah, we are motherfucking watching
you like we see everything you're doing, dude.
Yeah. Yeah, you really had the sense that that
Corbin was aware that he took up an entire wall
and that by leaning into the camera, he was like
filling the whole wall because it yeah, it felt
very intimidating. And then it's around this
time when he's really starting to, I think, turn
and and start to show signs of like, I'm thinking
about defecting. I'm thinking about doing something
else. I'm thinking about trying to shine a light
on all this. And so then what? They're at the
house party and he's starting to ask people about
the Nuremberg trials and talk about it. What
do you think an NSA house party is really like?
Just a bunch of agents and their wives and stuff.
And like nobody talks about work, but they somehow
still get really drunk. And it's got to be like
a key party situation. Oh, my God. But like the
one guy was talking about work. Yeah, he was
sitting there just running his mouth about killing
the families and bombing the children and all
of this. Yeah. All right. So these parties rip.
That's cool. Well, I thought it was weird that
they just had like, I mean, a drone just like
flying above the party. I'm like, that doesn't
seem that's got a camera on it. That doesn't
seem secure. Who's is that? Who's controlling
that? Well, to me, though, you place it in the
time frame of reality. Right. So about that time
is when drones were becoming more popular in
the public space. Right. So people were getting
drones for Christmas. People were getting drones
to play with. So they're like new on the scene.
So it was new technology, something new for your
average person to play with. So it felt like.
Something the government had had for a really
long time. All these guys knew what it was and
they were absolutely not concerned about it because
they already knew. Gross. I mean, I just think
more of it as if it was my job to give the government
people to blow up with drones. I think if I was
just at a house party and someone just had a
drone, that would just remind me of the horrible
things I do and make me uncomfortable. Well,
so throughout the movie, we bounce back from
past to the present tense in the movie where
they're in the hotel room in Hong Kong. I don't
know. We're in the hotel room and he's like trying
to get everything live and all the stories broken.
Right. So he's stolen the data in like the most
annoying drag and drop file copying. That was
so bad. I would like who? I'm sorry. I have done
so much drag and drop in my career, and the fact
that he did it that way was so annoying. Like,
you don't do that. You don't do that. Especially
for someone whose job is working at the command
line on a terminal. Totally. That just feels
a little backwards. Like, he's going to script
and automate everything. Yeah, that was probably
just... shot that way for dummies who don't yeah
it's just for the drama yeah yeah who have no
idea how that stuff actually works yeah perhaps
to lean into his claim that he left a uh a very
obvious trail to himself so that his peers back
there don't get in any trouble so that it shows
that he had no accomplices or anything so maybe
it was some lean into that i don't know i don't
know it's frustrating I know there were a couple
of people complaining on the Internet about like
certain aspects, and that's one that got like
the biggest complaints. And the other one was
like, that wasn't a cray one that he saw with
Nick Cage. That was a cray two. Fucking dork.
Yeah. Nobody cares. Apparently. Some people do.
Some people do. Oh, man. Yeah. So. it just kind
of exists in like the movie in like two time
lines where they flash back and forth where he's
talking to the reporters in the the current times
of like dealing out this information and then
like the recounting of the story it kind of comes
to the end of the film right just uh finishing
up this whole like getting the information out
getting it to the guardian and like pushing for
all this to get released and then you know kind
of the wrap -up of uh fucking him having to go
to russia and now having citizenship there yeah
um that's kind of that's all that i think we
really need to know except for who is nicholas
cage in this film we've talked about the whole
film and we only like mentioned nicholas cage
once now nicholas cage plays fictional x cia
x s you know or is he fictional I don't think
he's a real guy. I didn't zero like history into
this. Yeah. Hank Forrester is the character.
I did a mild Google. He's not, yeah, not a real
person. He was just, I mean, I'm sure he had
like an amalgamation of that character that existed
in Snowden's life, but yeah. I mean, it's not
like he was an important person in his story
at all. So he's in like three scenes, but he
does have perhaps one of the best lines of the
movie. You've come to the right little whorehouse.
Indeed, indeed. Yeah. I was going to say, when
Snowden's just waxing poetically about how much
he doesn't have a girlfriend, that he just loves
computers. Yeah, that's his drug of choice. That's
his drug of choice. I don't drink. I don't do
any drugs. I just love these computers. I really
liked it at the end when Snowden's on the news
and all the reports are coming out and Nick Cage
is just sitting in his armchair drinking a beer
and smoking a cigarette. He did it. He fucking
did it. He calls his wife in or some shit. He's
like, look it, look it. It's that guy I met seven
years ago. He's on the TV. He did it. He's spilling
the beans about all those things we do that I
never told you about. By the way, this was my
life. This is how we paid for this house. The
government has so much footage of us having sex.
Oh, yeah. Nice. Only if your laptop's open. That's
true. Yeah. Without a bandaid over the camera.
Yeah. Or a little privacy screen. Yeah. I know.
Yeah. When I worked at the salt company. the
ceo he came by at one point he was just like
everybody cover up your cameras and he gave us
all those little like camera protector things
the slidey ones and he's like because people
are watching yeah it's like oh i think you're
having an episode right now but no no not not
having an episode no a lot of modern laptops
just have a built -in physical shutter you can
close now as well yeah yeah there was a reason
for that yeah It was absolutely true that they
could remote into your laptop or your phone and
activate your camera without having the light
on and watch you. That's so fucking creepy. I
don't know. I'm sure the technology still exists,
but I have not heard of instances of it happening.
It's all pretty creepy. Yes. Yes. Welcome to
data privacy. I'm going to start whacking off
in front of ring cams now. Every ring cam, right?
Every ring cam I see. Motion detected. Just one
big butthole shot from me. I'm going to bring
a stool to stand on. Your only fan page is on
Flock. Palantir. In favor of the best. So this
is a good time then, Elizabeth. Let's talk more
about the data privacy aspects of it all. What
can you bring to the table? I will say it's worse
now. The amount of data that is collected on
your average person is exponentially more than
what was collected at the time of this movie.
And it's not just the government, right? Like
data brokers are a thing and corporations, the
amount of data that is collected. That's why
we need giant data centers. It's not just AI.
It's every moment that you spend online, every
transaction you make. And you might think like,
oh, I clicked on this app on my phone, right?
So if you have an app on your phone, they're
not just knowing that you clicked on that app.
They know where the app lives on your phone screen.
They know if you have location services turned
on, they know where you were in the world when
you clicked on that app, right? And not just
that. If you're clicking on that app and you
have location services turned on, which is why
in data privacy, we say, turn it off. Don't allow
this stuff. But then how do I watch my boys dots?
I need to know where Freeman and Nick are at
all times. You can turn it on for certain things,
but like your average app, you don't want to
allow location services. So if I click on an
app and I am in a location, the app knows where
I'm at. depending on their marketing services,
they can also know all of the marketing that
I am being exposed to in the real world. Geolocation,
what else am I looking at? What I could possibly
be looking at? Hot singles near you. Yeah, yeah.
And that's where they kind of get the marketing
dialed down for each person, right? So it's all
to sell you stuff. I mean, that's one thing I
found about this film watching it. I'm just like,
this all seems so quaint now. This is terrible
and terrifying that this was happening, but this
all seems so. so quaint and innocent compared
to like the capitalist hellscape we now live
in yeah the dorks have gotten real good at it
even just uh the proliferation of smartphones
and i think it's the apps and the integrations
there right the the timeline of this film you
know the iphone wasn't released until 2007 so
that's only kind of the second half of of this
collection of information and it's only become
richer and more robust uh painting a picture
about us and i think Back to the data privacy,
really what we start marching towards potentially
are markets of one, which is whoever's selling
you something knows enough about you that they
can give you an individualized price. And that
could be a very bad thing. Let's say it's determined
that you had a loved one die in Ohio. And so
they're pretty clear that you're going to be
trying to fly to Ohio. They're not going to show
you any discounted tickets to go to Ohio because
they know that your aunt just died. So you would
have to ask a friend to go book airfare for me
if you want to see the real flight prices, because
if you go searching, you're only going to see
inflated prices. If they're not also tracking
whether or not your friends are looking at the
same thing that you're looking at, right? Yeah,
that's where it gets. Yeah, and that's they hit
on the movie a little bit about like, oh, you
have this one person that you're tracking and
then you one jump from them and it gives you
like three hops and three hops. Yeah, it's like,
holy fuck. Yeah, yeah. Nick, Nick, we're losing
Bill. Make a dick joke. Well, this whole time
I've just been thinking that I'm going to make
a move back to hard copy pornography, just magazines
and VHS tapes because I can't trust DVD players
now either. A lot of them hook up to the Internet.
like i mean sure the quality is better but everybody's
gonna know you only need the audio it worked
for me for a long time when i was younger i've
actually been making my own audio for years so
just put it on mute i'm like oh oh yeah yeah
that's that's how you do it girl in my mind this
is nick horn that is how you do it girl does
anyone ever like think about the lost art of
like over like there used to be just a job to
like overdub moans and stuff in porn. And like,
that's a lost art now. How do you think they
made the fuck sounds? And then with a little
spit in there too. Yeah. All right. This feels
back to like episodes one, two or three of us
recording this podcast. I mean, okay. How much
roast beef do you think you need to be like a
porno Foley artist? Just get that meat slapping
sound. Yeah. Yeah. It's the most versatile pornographic
of luncheon meats. You get audio from it. You
can do macro photography with it. I think you
can do it a lot better like spanking a ham hock
or something. I fucking spank a ham hock all
the time. I mean, like thinking about it, I don't
know that roast beef is actually. the right meat
to use. I don't think it would be either. It's
pretty dry meat. Would you be a little thin?
A little thin. It gives you the right visual,
but not the audio. Right, right. I mean, you
need something thicker so that you actually get
the... Slap? The sound. A little jiggle. That's
why I thought ham hock. That's a nice mortadella.
You know, well, yeah. Would you want it to be
like, have like the moist sound component with
it too, right? Yeah, I think turkey breast would
be good. Turkey's probably a good call. A good
thick cut. Like brined in like a saltwater solution.
Turkey breast. Hormel. Genio. Hormel. Thanks,
Freeman. Oh, man. I needed that in my life. He
does what he can. Yeah. This is why he's a returning
guest. Yeah, we know what we get. Nick Cage was
great. Yeah, I think all seven of his lines were
delivered perfectly. He was fine. So this was
my thought going in, like after watching the
film and going into this, like, did it need to
be Nick Cage? I like that it was. That's why
we watched it. But like, does he actually add
anything to the film? No, artistically, no. I
don't think it made the fictional character in
the dramatized biofilm better. So it always begs
the question then, you know, this is what Sean
and I were talking about the other day. It's
like, why did he do this movie? Right. Like I
tried to look up an interview or anything and
I, I couldn't find anything from him, but prevailing
theory is just work with Oliver Stone. Yeah.
I mean, cause he had done nine 11 with Oliver
Stone. Um, so I blocked that one out of my brain.
Nick Cage did nine 11. Uh, so yeah. Uh, so he
did that one. I'm sure it was just like, Let's
be, you know, I'm going to help my buddy out
one way or the other. I'm not sure who needed
the help at that point. But I think he had an
idea of like the type of agent he would be. And
then that's what he put into the movie. So one
of my biggest grapes about this movie was the
smoking in the federal building around all of
the equipment. That's great, too. Oh, I just
I was. I just went off at the end of the movie.
Like, why? Why? Smoking? So I looked it up. There
was a federal ban on smoking in buildings in
1997. This movie starts in 2004. But then you
don't have the drama of the cigarette smoking.
2004 is when he he started trying to army in
the army. I wasn't trying to. I was just trying
to think about when I was not allowed to smoke
indoors in Oregon anymore. Yeah. I was 21, 22.
Yeah. Here in Washington, it was like 2005 or
six. Yeah. Yeah. Because I did a bowling league
in Ballard in 2004 and it was very. Sunset Bowl.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I miss Sunset Bowl. Yeah. Yeah.
So did I. It was a good league. Yeah. We had
a free pool Bloody Mary club on Sundays. because
it was like $1 .75 Bloody Marys. They were like
little half ones, but free pool. And we just
hang out, smoke cigarettes and drink Bloody Marys.
It was great. But why would you be smoking around
all of that historical equipment? Well, I mean,
it was a pretty old bar, but I don't know. It's
in the movie. I'm back to the movie. I'm no longer
talking about your history. I'm thinking about
the movie and my irritation. I just think of
old school geeks and just smoking and working
16 hours a day and like that they lived on cigarettes.
I agree, but it's not in the federal buildings.
I would agree. I think it's kind of fucking weird.
It took me out to have shot it that way. Yeah,
it took me out of the time frame. I was like,
what are we in the 70s or in the 80s now? Like
this just. I don't know. When we started at Washington
Mutual, there was still a smoking room inside.
And this was in 2002, 2001. And there was still
a couple of offices that the people had finally
retired, but they had like grandfathered claws
to smoke in their own office. And when those
people left, like they had a heavy scrub and
whoever got it next was just like very upset.
Like, this is not OK. It is baked in at that
point. Yeah. You don't get rid of that smell.
No. Yeah. No. That's in everything. Yeah. Yeah.
Never leaves. Oh, yeah. No. We used to like a
ghost. Yeah. Yes. Before it was banned, I had
like jackets and stuff like this is my bar jacket
because I wasn't a smoker. And yeah. Yeah. Do
you think the Atlanta airport still has that
indoor smoking room? Does Vegas still have the
cubes? in like the middle of the uh las vegas
had those big smoking cubes in the middle of
the terminals yeah i don't recall seeing those
any any time they did uh when there was the weather
storm or whatever it was a snowstorm yeah like
four or five years ago yeah uh las vegas well
a snowstorm in denver well here we got we got
detoured through vegas come on i'm a simple man
you gotta let me know we were visiting my family
in colorado oh okay and there was a huge snowstorm
And we couldn't get home. And then finally, we
we went to Vegas for a layover. We were there
for like five hours or something. Yeah. So we
wandered the airport, noticed lots of things.
We walked everywhere without leaving security
that we could. Yeah, that's true. I spend as
little time in the Vegas airport as possible.
Yeah, it's not a very fun one. Yeah, I similar
to Freeman. I end up going to the airport earlier
than I need to be usually because I'm a little
stressed out about traveling. I ain't got a family.
I mean, the Vegas airport is fucking terrible
to spend time in. So this didn't happen on our
last Vegas trip. But when Peter and I did the
Vegas half marathon with Bill, Peter and I went
to the airport. My flight was about 30 minutes
after Peter's. Peter gets on, gets an upgrade.
Yeah. I got first class. And my flight is delayed
three hours. God is good. I'm so mad about it.
Yeah. Okay. So overall, what are the thoughts
about this movie? Like I watched it. I liked
it. I felt tense through it. It was too long.
I was worried that it was going to be a slow.
burn a slog and i was i enjoyed the whole thing
front to back i didn't there were parts of it
that i'm like we didn't need but none of it felt
like none of it took me out of it none of it
bored me um the only thing that really took me
out of it there were two things one was the overuse
of music cues to like try and amp up the drama
i'm like this could have just had a silent background
and i would not and i wouldn't have thought twice
about it but because we got this sappy ass music
here i'm thinking about that shitty music and
now i'm kind of like meh i care it wasn't that
sad and then just every scene just had background
music for no reason yeah and the second thing
that really took me out of the film was joseph
gordon levitt um i think he's a great actor i
think he was great in this i just can't not see
him like i never see him disappear in a role
it's just here's joseph gordon levitt and that's
a personal thing but i find him distracting Was
he in Looper or was that Shia LaBeouf? He was
Looper. It could have been Shia LaBeouf. Sorry,
what if Shia LaBeouf had gotten the Snowden role?
Better or worse? Way worse. You sure about that?
Way worse. Just do it! Leak the information!
Do it! What did you guys think? Systems engineer
guy myself. It's always fun to kind of see the
super nerds and see them succeeding and racing
forward and kind of getting praise for their
abilities to do more than others. So that part,
I really kind of appreciate it. And, you know,
it makes you want to kind of be like them. How
true or not it was, I really appreciated the
leaning into like the fact that Snowden just
wanted to get the information out there and that
he wasn't trying to be a hero or a villain or
anything. He just felt like people needed to
learn about this and come to their own conclusions.
um and that it wasn't like a get rich thing or
anything else and he wasn't trying to absolve
for any sins or anything like that he's just
like look like like this is going on people need
to be aware that uh that this is happening and
some of that almost makes me think you know maybe
that might have some uh truth as to why or some
explanation as to why you like nick cage might
want to take a role in a movie like this like
you wouldn't want to be part of telling that
story right right real altruistic motivation
or you know it's always been presented that way
yeah so yeah we really don't have much reason
to doubt it like he he knew he was gonna be like
never able to come back to america it also makes
you think though if he's such a good super nerd
like what good work has he been doing for russia
uh since he's been there yep yep it's fair yeah
there's got to be some like back scratching like
i was just uh watching some interviews with oliver
stone who you know met snowden worked with him
to make the movie and like interviewed him several
times to like write the script and uh hearing
him talk about edward snowden like when edward
snowden did this he didn't necessarily anticipate
even living beyond this because his plan was
to get to south america and when he was laid
over in russia america like pulled his passport
so he just can't leave he is stranded in In Russia,
if he had made it to Brazil, do you think he
would have gotten like a hot new face or a butt
lift? Yeah. Yeah. Snowden with a big old Brazilian
butt lift. But just fucking cake. Yeah, man.
That'd be so cool. Lindsay Mills just bouncing
on it. I'm burying her face in it because it's
Brazil. Just do it. That's true. But Elizabeth,
what did you think of this movie? I think for
me. It brought back a lot of memories from when
this actually happened. I didn't realize how
much this storyline actually affected my personal
career. I mean, there was a lot of data privacy
things already in the books, already happening.
GDPR was already, the General Data Protection
Regulation, which is in the EU, better known
as GDPR, was already underway. Legally codified.
Yes. Yet. But they were working on it. But his
statements about where the government is deciding
things on behalf of people, assuming that they
know what's best. And that's a storyline that's
happening today. Right. Like, we know what's
best for you. We know what's best for you with
your data. And most people just are not educated.
So for me, it was like, yeah. That's still happening.
Still happening. And I honestly, I don't know
what the answer would be. It's a little complicated
and I don't think a lot of people really care.
Right. That whole line with like, well, I'm not
doing anything so they can watch me. I've got
nothing to hide. I've got nothing to hide. Right.
Yeah. And you're just like, oh, if you only knew
what they were doing with your data. But so,
you know, I think it's still a lot of the topics
are still very relevant for today. The movie
overall, it was too long. It just felt so long.
We paused an hour in and I was like, are you
kidding me? There's an hour left of this movie.
And I feel like they really took their time with
the middle part of the movie, which I think could
have been condensed. And they could have spent
a little bit more time on him getting trapped
in Moscow. And what happened with that and some
of the the press and all of that and how people
were actually reacting to what he did. I felt
like that was really glossed over. Yeah, because
he was fairly maligned in America after it happened.
Like they kind of give you some broad strokes
of like, oh, you know, he he's a bad human being,
says Obama and things like that. Yeah. But it
doesn't really kind of give you the full feeling
of. what the general conversation about him was
in mainstream media. Like, how did he feel about
getting trapped in Moscow? How did he feel about
having to make a new life there? Like, what did
Lindsay feel about him getting trapped there?
Right. Like that was missing. If you really want
me to connect with them and the story, give me
a little bit more about how they feel about where
they are now that that was missing. I could use
a follow up. Yeah. Him with a single tear. Just
my butt was going to be so big. And I feel like
I mean, I feel like that's true with most like
based on real events. Dramatizations is, you
know, there's that balance of reality versus
character. And I find a lot movies like this
tend to be really dry in that sense where they
don't necessarily engage you so much on the character
when they're trying to get the facts correct.
So I would have also liked to care about these
people more personally. and that is a much more
interesting story like where kind of the aftermath
of all of this just just a little bit more of
the aftermath i think would have made it a little
less hunting and yeah talking about hunting and
the slowness in the middle and a little more
action at the end because it was there was a
lot of media attention there was a i'm sure he
had so many thoughts and feelings and we don't
get any of it right we get him in a room hiding
out and then on a plane and then in another room
giving his little end speech right like yeah
they cut out the boat chase scene that really
disappointed me because i love a boat chase I
just assume there's always a boat chase that
got cut out of films. They cut out the scene
where him and Nicolas Cage switch faces. Oh,
yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Right. They've had that
technology for so long. I do have to say during
the hunting scene, I for I don't know why, but
I went my mind went to the story of Dick Cheney
shooting his partner in the face. Yes. And I
was like, so just waiting for someone to get
blasted or maybe even snowed, even though it
wasn't part of the real story. I was just like,
give me give me someone to drama. Same, same.
And when the rest of like the hunting party came
over the ridge, I was like, are we just are we
going to have a shootout? Or is there going to
be an accident? It felt like that for sure. It
really did. This movie definitely needed something
actiony. I think I think that was there between.
Yeah, there's just a couple of scenes where it
felt like something really dramatic was going
to happen. But because you knew it was a documentary
that that wasn't part of the story. So then it
just I don't know. It left me kind of like feel
like they were setting up for something that
wasn't there. I thought it was an all right movie.
I mean, I enjoyed watching it. It was long. Yeah,
it didn't really. thrill me it made me paranoid
made me really upset um i am excited about trying
to go a whole month without watching porno i'd
still whack off i'm gonna like let's be real
i am still whacking off everybody but i'm gonna
try to get off everybody i'm just gonna use where's
mine my imagination imagination yeah i'm just
imagining did i did i black out again no more
no more porn Just for one month. I don't know.
We'll find a cool no nut November kind of name
for like manual. March? March or something. I
mean, it's always manual, right? Like I don't
have a cool robot. So we're trying to find it.
When we get the right name, we'll assign it to
a month. Like this could not happen until September.
Why aren't you watching porn? Huh? Because I
don't want the government to know my pornos.
But I'm not doing this until I have a clever
like alliteration. Just watch them at the library.
Oh, like all the other homeless people? Fucking
Seattle library. I have to go back. I have a,
oh, I have a inspection at the Seattle, the Beacon
Library this week. So I just put in some chargers
there. So I'll make sure to dive in for a quick.
You got to bring your little privacy film. I
won't. You know, people from the side. I'm going
to use a magnifying glass. Like one of those
screen magnifiers for the people in the back.
I'm bringing my own speakers. You're an actual
criminal. Bring in some clip speakers to hook
up. And a subwoofer so that they get the whole
like turkey slapping feel. Oh my god. Okay. Cranberry
sauce in the middle. There you go. You gotta
have some slop. You really get it working. Then
you need something to show like... You could
have gone with gravy, man. Yeah, gravy's much
better. Gravy doesn't have that gelatinous pull
kind of feel. It gives a better suction. You
need that sucking. You need the sucking sound
of the cranberry sauce coming out of the can.
Sean knows how to beat off to food noises. So
this Thanksgiving, I'm really looking forward
to being with my family. You are all monsters.
You said the cranberry as a as a like a fleshlight.
Yeah, I'll bring dessert next. We've got the
movie Arsenal, which is a cream pie. Oh, no.
Fuck off. This week in cage, we got a spider.
We got a spider noir trailer. Yeah, the spider
noir. Did you guys watch it? yeah i saw a trailer
uh during the olympics like i was sitting at
the bar and the olympics are on and all of a
sudden i saw spider noir trailer and i was like
i was slapping lance and i'm like yeah it looks
awesome i'm gonna i'm still definitely watching
it in black and white oh at least on the first
go wait you're not gonna watch it in real hue
real hue sounds pretty good too i would like
it if it was just like uh old colorized photography
Like some some nerd had to go through every cell,
every cell and like with colored pencils kind
of shaded in. That's history, baby. I am shocked
to say this looks like it might be quality. I
was expecting this to look a lot worse. I mean,
I was going to watch it. I was going to enjoy
it no matter what. But this feels like something
I'm actually going to enjoy more than like be
able to rag on as much as I was hoping. Yeah.
And it looks like it's got some real quality
like. cage out moments and stuff for sure yeah
it should be really fun i'm looking forward to
it that that's what march comes out march may
i think it starts with a may masturbation may
yeah yeah masturbation mental mental how you
get up the maple that just sounds too much like
menstruation may yeah we'll get there yeah we'll
figure it out check back next time anyway elizabeth
freeman thank you for being here thank you for
having us indeed All right. Next up, we've got
the movie Arsenal, which is the return of Nick
Cage as Eddie King, his character that he played
in Deadfall. Yes. So I think it's a prequel because
he got friolated. So it's a prequel and a sequel.
There's no reason for this movie. Yeah, I don't
know. It's going to be fun. I think my brother's
going to be our guest for that. So that'll be
good. All right. So thank you to our sparkle
buddies, Josh, Josie, Matt, Adam, Bill, Stuart,
and Willow. And to our cage dancers, John Freeman,
Nathan, and Cameron. Hey Freeman. That's it.
Do you need me to get some deli meats? I don't
know. Can I kiss that ham? I want to kiss that
ham. Don't touch that dog. His head topples to
the floor, expressionless. You fall to your knees
and catch your breath. You're finally safe from
Shia LaBeouf. my house heat just came on. I'm
going to go turn that off because it will just
be like a background noise thing. Yeah. What
just came on? Don't be funny. Do you want us
to take a second so you can get clean house noise
air? It's warmer in here. Because the house heats
on. We're going to fix that. Don't ever stop
taking clothes off, though. Oh, we've changed.
We're a strip podcast now. Yeah. I was unaware.
Yeah. Sorry. This is happening. It's only Freeman
rules, though. Oh, OK. Yeah. So it's actually
best for everybody. It's either all my clothes
or none of my clothes. Yep. We're going to get
you. I'm not wearing pants. I'm not wearing pants.
You're usually not wearing pants, though, unless
it's a smart pantsuit. Just Winnie the Pooh -ing
or what? Wouldn't you like to find out? Want
me to stand up? No. No, thank you. Casual pass.
Sean's going to get up and go get some more hot
water in the kitchen and we'll all just get a
moonshot. Whoa! Very nice. Very nice.