Hello, everyone. This is producer Peter. We've
got a really nice episode today. We have repeating
guest Tank back to talk about Francis Ford Coppola's
Rumblefish, which is a really interesting movie
that we have. a fair amount of stuff to say about
um but the bummer is that after doing the recording
i found that the audio file for nick myself and
tank corrupted and we lost that so we're using
our backup scratch track which doesn't sound
as good and you know has some issues but i tried
to clean it up as much as possible to make it
decent and i hope you still enjoy listening um
and sean's audio is great so uh there's that
anyway enjoy There's a guy who dresses like Batman
and then just jet skis around Lake Washington
Or Lake Union. I have not seen it. It's fucking
sick. I don't know if it was, like, Washington.
I think it is Washington. There's a guy with
a hot dog motorboat. Oh, I saw a video of a hot
dog boat. I didn't know that was in Washington.
I was talking about that earlier today. I was
like, if that ever happens, somebody should wake
me up. He was rolling around, just blasting ACDC's
Thunders. Of course. I was babbling nonstop.
just like look i'm just really over the top wait
did you guys move to portland or did i because
this this is weird i think uh it was funny i
was like every time there is a uh slightly horny
slightly violent surreal dreamscape movie you're
like yeah we should get we should probably yeah
everybody like it's like a It's like a French
gangster who took some Ambien and woke up with
a moderate hard -on. Yeah. Like, let's make a
movie about that and bring in Tank and have him
talk about it. So let's do it. Perfect. I already
have the French gangster. Motorcycle, by the
way. We were talking about it today. I was hoping
that every time we talk to each other, we'd just
start with Rusty James. Rusty James. Rusty James.
Rusty James. Every sentence starts and ends with
Rusty James. Oh, my God. I love that his name
is just Russell James, and then they're like,
nope, Rusty James. What a cool gang name. Yeah,
for real. Yeah, what would be your gang name?
Fang. Fang. Dang, I was thinking Fang, too. Yeah.
See, I think it makes more sense for me to be
Fang, seeing as everything I wear is from Wild
Fang. Mine actually makes sense. Why is everybody
going Fang? It's just a bit tight -ass. It's
just capitalism. Fuck you, you corporate shill.
I'm going to be Scratchers. Tank is my business.
That's what I take into the straight world. Scratchers
is where I go at night. So this is Cage Match,
apparently, calling around about meeting Nicolas
Cage. I'm your host, Sean, here with my co -host.
And I'm Nick. And our producer. Peter, hello.
Hey, you kind of did it better this time. Yeah,
I've been... Well, no, I haven't been practicing.
You've been practicing bullshit. I forgot we
were even doing a podcast anymore until you texted
me the other day. Yeah, we're going to do all
the back catalog. We're getting all the bangers.
The movies that don't actually feature Nick Cage.
Somewhat feature Nick Cage. Well, yeah, when
you're like, what, uncle or second cousin makes
the movie and you have to show up because your
name is... Because you're a Coppola. We're in
the and also Nick Cage genre. era now. The what?
And also Nick Cage. Oh, yeah. It's also the Nepo
version for these first couple movies. Sophia
Coppola, I gotta just say, sucks so fucking bad.
Oh, Sophia Coppola is still terrible. I cannot
stand her at all. Her directing work is fine.
As an actor, and I know she's a kid in this,
she sucks. She's so bad. I fully expected her
to get retroactively better. and then just suck
later in her career? No, not true. Started bad,
ended bad. Also returning this week, our friend
Tank. Hi, Tank. Hey, everybody. I'm here not
to besmirch the career of Sofia Coppola. Only
the acting career. Oh, I don't care at all. I
really just don't care. Like, there's not a movie
that she's in. I'm like, oh, that's the one I
want. By the way, this is a great movie. We'll
talk about that later. But, like, you can put
any kid in there. Kids are terrible. Kids are
terrible actors. Nine times out of ten. How do
you feel if... Finn Wolfhard was the sister.
At any age. At any age, yeah, sure, I would love
that, but that's a really bold thing. It's a
pretty expressionistic movie anyway. 27 -year
-old Finn Wolfhard. Really, like, gender flip
a daughter character and, like, not acknowledge
it would have been outstanding. That silly, shaggy,
like, fucking Joey Ramone hair he's got. So this
week we are discussing the 1983 film Rumblefish,
which I'd never heard of before. And now I have
seen and enjoyed. Okay, good. There we go. We
got to the end of it. I'm going to speak like
this. So you never know when my sentence ends.
So you will never understand if I actually watched
the movie or did research. We will know when
you're done because you will end it with Rusty
James. Rusty James. Beautifully, though, you're
on a separate audio track, so Peter can speed
you up 75 % and you'll just sound like, I guess,
I guess like me. just fast and annoying welcome
to cage match later episodes where we exclusively
discuss the mechanics of podcasting yeah yeah
that's what the people are so so um are there
people left is it is anybody yes is anybody familiar
with se hidden uh no is that is that an author
that rings no I'm going to... I'll give a...
It's a she. S .E. Hinton is an Oklahoma author,
born probably in the 1940s. Began writing really
young, like in her teenage years. Wrote The Outsiders,
Rumblefish, a handful of other books. So what's
interesting is Coppola did this in Outsiders
and released them in the same year, six months
apart. Outsiders is a very straightforward story.
This one is, I think, much crazier. I think we'll
get into it. So S .E. Hinton was like, I don't
know, the James Patterson of Oklahoma? Actually,
let me back up. It's more of like the Stephen
King. She didn't do horror, but she was heavily
identified with the region and wrote stories
about what it was like to be in Tulsa, Oklahoma
in the 50s. So while I think this probably takes
place in Missouri or whatever, I don't really
know. It's ultimately like she was an Oklahoma
author. The fun thing about The Outsiders...
was you could read that book in the seventh grade
and you could write a book report on it every
single year until your senior year of high school
and still get like an A in like basic English.
So she was sort of an outsized character growing
up because she wrote like about what it was like
to be in that world. And so I grew up in Oklahoma
and that's what it was. But I will tell you,
the movie we saw today looked nothing like any
version of Oklahoma I'd ever seen in my entire
life. Because it's in black and white. It's exactly
true. And they have a color there now. Everything
in Oklahoma was mostly like a sepia, yellowish
tone until about 1985, and then we started Ed
Reds and stuff like that. Bold shift. But yeah.
But like Outsiders, if you watch that one, and
like Outsiders just won a bunch of Tonys like
a year or so ago as an opera. Not opera, sorry,
as a musical. It's super straightforward. bunch
of handsome men and handsome situations yeah
and it's like it's like all of the most handsome
dudes from the 1980s oh absolutely yeah it was
like this was lazy and and like who else yeah
i'm like uh yeah it's like it's it's just everybody
it's like rob lowe it's milio estevez It's just
everybody. Everybody who was remotely like, this
is a potentially fuckable human being in the
future got in that movie. And this one, they
toned it back a little bit, but you still have
these really great people pop in. They had a
terrific cast. Yeah. A real banger of a Hidden
Gems cast. My favorite was Tom Waits, for sure.
Oh, yeah. Benny. Absolutely. What a great character.
Although, I will say, I... the designer in me
hates the, the B being used for Benny's billiards.
Cause the first time I read that, I'm like Benny's
Iliards. What's that? Even when they showed it
again later, that's how my mind read it. It's
actually Benny's billiards. Benny's billiards.
No. Cause the B and the, the B, the Benny is
like one font. Eh, whatever. The Benny is hanging
out with Tom Waits. That's why you're a good
movie king. Tank, do you want to take a quick
synopsis of the film? What's it about for our
listeners? Alright, so you have Rusty James,
who is the younger brother of what was the lead
gang member of a pretty prominent group of young
men who just fought nonstop in whatever city
they're in. Rusty is like the heir apparent,
but is a little dumber. A little less charismatic.
A lot dumber. A lot dumber. And just does not
have what it takes to carry on. But at the exact
same time, his older brother, whose name I never
really caught, to be honest with you. A really
good Mickey Rourke. A really good motorcycle
boy. A really good Mickey Rourke. Fantastic.
You forget what a wonderful actor. What a presence
that guy has on stage. He disappeared into that
one. It's so weird to see Mickey Rourke before
he became a mannequin that came alive in a trash
compactor. yes right right right like we were
talking about this on text like he just i think
he got he went to bare knuckle boxing or boxing
just got the crap kicked out and did a whole
bunch of plastic surgery and just like i don't
know i think his body there's like a body dysmorphia
thing i'm not i'm no clinician yeah but i'll
diagnose people on podcasts all day long uh but
anyway so so motorcycle boy is basically the
king and he has come back after a period of time
in california when she basically has a religious
experience where he realizes that the lives of
the kind of rumble like culture that they had
been a part of was basically hollow and he was
going in a dead end direction and ultimately
he was going to wind up in a dead end direction
and at the end essentially sacrifices himself
in some way in order to either evolve Rusty James
or to end the culture or whatever but it's just
a very nihilistic movie I think in its heart
like there's not a lot of like hope at the end
of it no it tries to get there and never really
reaches it it's also like visually just very
expressionistic like nothing about it like so
i was watching it at the very beginning i was
thinking like this is like a musical with no
actual like musical sequences in it like every
scene looks like it's gonna lead up to like the
jets or whatever they're gonna start snapping
and like dance fighting but they just like fight
fight or they just do a thing and like i don't
know it i i hated it for the first 20 minutes
but by the end i was like this is killer every
it took me like it took me about 20 minutes to
really kind of get into the groove of it but
once i realized this is just a stage play like
this is if i saw this on stage if i saw like
if you i had a character named rusty james who
was only referred to as rusty james constantly
on stage perfectly fine with it in a movie i'm
like this is weird and uncomfortable well even
there's a there's like a fight scene where one
of the guys gets knocked down um in an alley
and like his leg does this huge like melodramatic
kind of flop and it's like oh yeah that would
work on a stage definitely more than whatever
the fuck that was also how would you do the motorcycle
hitting that fucking guy put that on stage that
felt like something out of a 1980s video game
like a double dragon game where yeah shoot yeah
yeah yeah the bicycle motorcycle he's the motorcycle
boy he shows up on his motorcycle wrecks it to
like kill a guy and then like loses his whole
like namesake then he's just boy and that's why
he's kind of drifting to the rest of the movie
they steal another they steal that yamaha or
whatever yeah yeah he has one more motorcycle
yeah but i just i loved this the framing of everything
i loved like the the abundance of fog machines
even the final shot of rusty james at uh on the
california coast where it's clearly just him
on a soundstage with like a screen that is being
back projected on but it's just it's so it's
the atmosphere of this whole film is just great
and like the weird angles i visually just loved
this film i think it's essentially an independent
movie made by the person who made the godfather
yeah you know what i mean it just feels because
like again he did outsiders right before and
outsider is like a very straightforward like
we're making a movie this felt like so at the
same time you're getting like jim jarmusch is
coming in there's a lot of down by law kind of
qualities there there's a lot of this kind of
like ultra indie black and white you know motivated
camera like we're gonna go really big and expressionistic
with the way things are weird angles the fish
thing yeah in color there's that scene that's
so good near the end where they're walking through
the kind of i don't know if it's like a fair
or maybe just downtown at night and they're talking
about how motorcycle boy is colorblind and also
kind of deaf and the sound drowns out and comes
back in and drowns out and comes back in he's
talking about like why he can't see stuff and
like i don't know that's a that's a artsy ass
move and it's like 10 minutes long it's like
not a short sequence right that whole sequence
i it took me a minute to catch on to it but there's
like whenever the focus is on motorcycle boy
talking it like deadens the sound and whenever
we get back to rusty james it's much louder and
you hear a lot more ambient sound i thought that
was a really nice touch yeah it's really carefully
designed like it's again it's an art house movie
made by a person who made godfather 1 2 and apocalypse
now yeah Who went on to have a very weird career
right after that. He has had a very weird career.
A very weird career. I thoroughly respect that.
Let's not ignore the Megalopolis of it all. Or
the Jack of it all. He made Jack. I was forgetting
about that. Yeah, he made Jack. He made The Rainmaker.
Yeah, yeah. He made some choices. He said Jack,
and my brain immediately said, oh, Simple Jack.
Oh, yeah. What a terrific film. No, that's a
film within a film. Jack is the one, the Robin
Williams, who has that disease where he's a boy
who... ages too fast and by the way i'd be like
reverse benjamin buttons or something but i knew
a guy who actually had the disease and it's so
much more tragic it's not like i'm 12 and i look
at robin williams like i'm i'm 19 and like i
have osteoporosis oh that's not like he wasn't
able to buy you yeah my little friend can go
get his beer it's like no my 19 year old friend
needs a walker so um there's a story i want to
tell here um but we don't do that here so no
no it's about it's about the it's about the movie
so they're at the end and they're like looking
at the fish right it was like beta fish rebel
fish we want to call like your own call a lot
of different things so um when i was 22 ish um
i was i bought i got a house a rental house with
two other guys we were in college there was three
bedrooms so Killer rental house. But one bedroom
had an en suite bathroom. And so that was like
the desired bathroom. We're like, well, how are
we going to decide who gets the bathroom? And
so coin toss, drinking contest, whatever. We
were like, what if we went to Walmart and we
all got three betta fish and we put them in one
container, one aquarium, and we let them fight
to the death and the last one alive got the room.
so we did that this is animal abuse this is terrible
right again i was the older man i didn't you
know whatever um so we did that and we put them
all in one fish bowl and over the course of the
next 70 hours they fought now they don't fight
like they go and they fight each other and then
one dies they slowly eat the fins of each other
until they can't swim anymore and then go upside
down and they float to the top and they die and
it was the saddest way i've ever won a bedroom
in my entire life and like at the end we were
just like can we just stop yeah we just stopped
was it your responsibility to flush them down
your unsweet absolutely yes actually i did take
care of all of it and i feel terrible about this
is i'm atoning out loud on this podcast when
i watched that scene i was like okay i could
finally clean my conscience so good it's a chance
for you to heal yeah thanks for coming on cage
match a chance for you to heal about uh animal
abuse that you inflicted That's the therapeutic
podcast about Nicolas Cage. Yeah, it's not fun.
70 hours, yeah. It was like 20 minutes. We would
go to work, because we all worked night shifts
and stuff, we'd go to work and come back and
they'd still be alive. Horrible. Yeah, that's
rough. Anyway, not as romantic as a piece of
that movie. But those fish at the end get set
free and they all swim their own way. Sure, they
seem happy. Everything in the aquarium should
go in a river. Absolutely. Check it all in a
river. All goes in a river. That's fresh water.
I'm assuming that's the Missouri River. I'm sure
that thing is perfectly great for it. Definitely
primed for it. It's got the right pH balance.
They're going to do great. So other cast of characters,
Diane Lane plays his girlfriend. Nicholas Cage
plays Smokey. Can we address the Nicholas Cage
of it all? Yeah. I liked his jacket. Deuce's
wild jacket. That was actually August Coppola's
jacket from when they were kids. Interesting.
And Francis, because Francis was really big into
the brother story of this all, and it really
connected. I went back and re -read the Age of
Cage portion of this. Yeah, so he was like, oh,
you know, we'll get him to wear his dad's old,
like, I don't know, gang jacket. Gang. Gang.
I guess Cage was not famous enough for the rusty
part at this point. Which, it's kind of too bad
looking at it, because I feel like he would have
done a good job. I mean, it's early in his career,
so it would have been a stretch. But, like, Matt
Dillon did fine. but he's fine he was fine he's
rusty james we got it i think a lot of the like
acting performances could be just qualified as
fine yeah nobody was exemplary i think uh um
that's hopper hopper hopper was great hopper
was good but like the movie is like oh their
contentious relationship with their father and
it's like no he seems like just a drinking buddy
to them yeah like there seems to be no struggle
between the father's drinking except for you
know obviously like motorcycle boy comes in and
he's like playfully getting rid of the alcohol
in the house sort of thing i mean i think the
contention is their dad's just an absentee absentee
drunk for sure yeah yeah but it never feels contentious
Nobody seems to have a real problem, a developmental
problem. The problem is they're all trapped.
That's the thing. It's not that he's mean or
cruel or violent. He's just a trap. He's a person
who has to be taken care of. They have to be
there for him. He's just an ever -present chaotic
part of their life. He's not terrible, but...
I don't know. I don't think any movie's ever
made worse for Dennis Hopper. I think he's one
of the few actors like, oh, you made that a little
better every single time. Well, I'm not upset
about him being in there. I enjoyed his performance.
It just never felt like... You wanted a little
more antagonism between the family. Well, everybody
seems so resigned to their place in life except
for Motorcycle Boy. It's like, oh, yeah, I am
the dumb gang leader. Well, Smokey outsmarts
Rusty James. and takes the gang but he seems
to be the only one with any kind of ambition
like that was kind of the thing at the end though
there really was no gang like at the beginning
Rusty James is trying to make this whole big
stink about like rumbling and shit and we're
led to believe that Smokey's kind of a coward
and he's just apathetic because he's like you're
dumb the gang was dork and beef boy and lawrence
fishburne larry larry fishburne but like they're
ultimately just plain at being gangsters and
smoky's really the only one who sees that yeah
i know for real but i do think a lot of it is
about that like it's not it's not that it's like
this really violent terrible place it's not great
but it's just like there's nowhere to go it's
like a dead end you know what i mean like hopper
was a dead end and that's what they wrote so
when they were talking about the mom the mom
got out right that was the whole thing she was
not a dead end everybody's like oh she was crazy
she left she's like no she was probably the sanest
person in the entire group but like everybody
there was just like resigned to the space they
were in it's getting a little heavy uh i'll check
it back i'll back out real fast in praise of
diane uh wow i just this is one of the we every
time again you bring me in for the horn stuff
so i'm going to put my horns on for a second
so it was laura dern in wild at heart just was
smoking and diane lane comes in hot this whole
fucking oh yeah that's so good i like the fantasy
sequence where she's like up on oh yeah the thing
and she's taking her clothes off and like he's
like in the wood shop or whatever like or like
the machine shop like whatever what a great move
just just a plus it's so hard thinking about
just high school back then were like here's just
a big old machine shop where when i went to high
school it was like we can afford a book for five
lucky this movie there were two parts that gave
me like a little crisis there was one line where
someone's like god he's so old he looks like
25 oh yeah and i was like yeah okay that's kids
talking whatever and then hopper is like i'm
40 i've only got 35 summers left in me and i
was like jesus fuck is that all i have left yeah
oh yeah no i that that hit too i'm like 35 summers
doesn't sound like that many summers oh it's
always fun you never know when like the midlife
crisis is gonna smash into you it's now what
is happening well so i was talking about somebody
the other day we're like uh talking about cheers
and like how george went was 34 when i started
i was like i feel a lot but i look in the mirror
and he's like i'm 43 i'm like all right I look
significantly better than Dennis Hopper did at
40. A different life. We're on different timelines.
Well, it's like Nick has pointed this out a few
times. You used to be able to smoke inside everywhere.
And it was cool. It was cool. Super tight. Motorcycle
Boy and Rusty James smoked quite a bit. Nick
Cage, like, when they came out of the bar, Motorcycle
Boy lights up a cigarette, then immediately throws
it away. yeah that's classic and then motorcycle
boy had that like fucked up busted cigarette
somehow miraculously able to smoke even though
it was cracked which doesn't work think about
though was just how cheap were cigarettes back
then they were probably a buck it'd have to be
a buck i think a buck a pack 18 bucks a pack
like last time i checked but when i quit smoking
in 2007 They were $3 a pack in Oklahoma. I think
there were probably like six out here at that
time. Yeah, that was like, that was the end of
it. But probably a buck. I remember my grandfather
quit smoking when they got to 75 cents a pack
and that was like 1980 something. Yeah. It was
like eight bucks a pack up here when I quit.
Yeah. And there was like quite a bit of smoking
in the, in Benny's billiards where people were
having milkshakes and Cokes and just smoking
away. Yeah. Chocolate milk. Yeah, it's like,
I'm gonna crush a beer, but then give me a glass
of chocolate milk, Benny. Oh, man, can you imagine
the phlegm if you had, like, two to three cigarettes
and then a glass of chocolate milk? That is coating
the throat. Repulsive. I will say, and I think
a bunch of us have talked about this for a while,
if I could have any wish from a really wiener
-ass genie or something like that, it could make
me ultimately powerful, it would just be like,
I would love to smoke with no repercussions.
It doesn't smell bad, it doesn't hurt my health.
You get to look badass. I just get to look so
cool. I have never looked cool. We talked about
this on the way back from your birthday. I've
never looked cooler in my life than when I was
smoking. so no negative only positive i don't
think that i would have ever had sex with a human
being had i not been a smoker i'm not sure maybe
i probably would have found my way there eventually
but like it it really set the pace for me in
my 20s i definitely had 100 of the sex that i
had in my life as a smoker yeah well not like
like every instance of it but but it was it was
definitely a part of the darren right every partner
i've ever slept with was while i was a smoker
yeah yeah same same like that's at some point
that's part of the thing is like if i read it
back to like dating or whatever i'd be like uh
oh fuck i have a smoky yeah yeah no i don't smoke
and no no new pokes no again that you bring me
in for the horn stuff that's good that's why
you're here um you know one of the things that
like continually stood out to me through the
whole the whole movie was just like how did this
get made right like how how like it like think
about it in context of because we're as a cage
match but like nicholas cage is not a big part
of this it would have been killer had it been
uh mickey rourke dennis hopper and nicholas cage
like in the bedroom doing those sequences together
that would have been a really fun watch i think
it could have got wild but like we didn't get
there so it's just like contextually this movie
you have one of the best biggest directors in
the world right he's picking up these this ip
from as he hit and he makes outsiders which comes
out six months before and like that's a kind
of a hit oh yeah it launches careers it kind
of sets the tone for all the big heartthrobs
of the 80s like it launches that whole thing
he's like all right so now i'm gonna do it again
but like no i'm not gonna fucking do it again
i'm gonna make this weird ass experimental kind
of crazy film that looks beautiful it's some
of the best black and white photography i think
i've ever seen in my entire life i think the
only other movie i've seen that looks as good
The Man Who Wasn't There by the Coen Brothers.
It's just exquisite black and white. This is
maybe the best black and white I think I've ever
seen. So this movie was shot back to back with
The Outsiders. They kept the exact same production
crew and everything. So I think that really helped.
And just getting it made was the... They were
writing the screenplay while filming The Outsiders.
Was it the same director of photography between
the two? I'd have to double check, but I know
that Coppola wanted to keep his production crew
from Outsiders into this. Probably would have
been. I mean, you would think. That's a person
at the top of their powers, right? They can go
to any studio and be like, you're going to give
me this much money, I'm going to make this movie
and this movie simultaneously. And studio producers,
you can't show up. You can't check in on what
we're doing. Maybe they showed up one day on
Outsiders and were like, oh, these are handsome
boys. and like we're gonna we're gonna make a
ton of money and they walked off and they didn't
check in on rumble fish and rumble fish comes
out you're like huh yeah this is a thing huh
they tilted the camera a lot on this one didn't
you buddy yeah so it was it was steven henry
burham was his name i think this looks great
oh we also did snake eyes oh wow so reunited
mission impossible so i forgot about this in
the beginning of the film when they like the
first few like set up scenes they show like the
city and they kind of like have it on a time
lapse but it gave me like those old like the
videos they'd show us when we were kids in schools
like you know the mechanism of the economy see
we were able to afford updated videos we weren't
all sharing the same book and public domain 1945
No, I was in Tillamook, Oregon, and they had
a legit reel -to -reel projector they'd bring
in with these old fucking old -ass tapes. The
only time we ever had to watch one of those was,
like, the first sex ed course I ever went through.
Sending a chair. Yeah, the evolution, like, sitting
in the future, I will include electricity. There's
just nothing. Hard -on, through the screen, it's
like, erections for all. racing into the sky.
Trains going into tunnels, rocket ship. It's
just an innuendo. It's not sex ed. It's just
metaphors. I'm going to have a real hard time
adjusting to... Although, Sean, I'm sold every
time we do a time lapse at night of a city. If
it's a pretty time lapse at night, I'm just like,
let's just do it. Let's watch a city go to bed
and wake up over a time lapse. I'm in. Every
freaking time. What was the big billboard in
that scene, that nighttime scene? Mayo? Mayo,
I think. I'm sure it was probably like Mayo Clinic
or something, but like the idea of a giant sign
for... Oh yeah, just a giant sign for mayonnaise.
Yeah, well you said there was like a magazine
or something? Yeah, the magazine said something
called Hamburger. Hamburger Magazine? Hamburger
Magazine. Makes sense to me. I would subscribe.
So are we going to start a hamburger magazine?
Let's do it. Probably. It'd come out of left
field. Nobody would expect it from me. So I think
it needs to be large format twice a year. Like
a really big thick one. Like really big time
into it. Like the swimsuit edition. Big format
twice a year. One seasonal hot dog. Real thick
paper. Well there can be a hot dog centerfold.
So that way you unfold the giant hot dog. Yeah.
You can run your hands over. Ooh. One scratch
and sniff page, yeah. We're on the same page.
All right. Yes, absolutely. This is going to
happen. Cool. Spare sourcing right now. Cage
match. A roundabout way of starting a magazine.
So I do want to come back to, like, Matt Dillon's
performance real quick, because I think he's
great in this, just as the fucking poser kid.
what's up with the leather cuff like what's up
with like the one like leather like fighting
cuff just trying to look cool man it's just cool
shit yeah i just like it's such it's such a vibe
and i definitely knew this guy in high school
like i definitely knew that guy who just wanted
to be cool and was just projecting that image
and story of himself out there and it was just
easier to go along with it than to just be like
nah dude So the Yahoo who comes into our podcast
wearing their best fighting blouse has decided
to critique the fashion of 1980s small town gang
members. In the 80s, man, this was written in
the 60s. I guess the movie moves it forward a
little bit. Oh, man. Bandana Sean is not happy
with Cuffy Dillon. For our listeners, just so
everyone knows, this thing is like a button to
ruffle just above the navel. Just pure midsection.
There's full sternum bush on display. Sure. I
can see your xiphoid process. That's true. Anybody
know what that is? No. Not a fucking clue. No
good. It is a small bone that hangs down at the
center where your ribcage meets right here and
holds it together. Is that the one you take off
when you want to suck your dick? I mean, there's
a lot. It's not going to hurt. No, it's not going
to hurt. Actually, it will separate your ribcage.
It's pretty critical linchpin in the whole chest
area, but anyway. I got zip ties. This is a diphoid
process. That's a weird name for a bone. I love
it. That joke got me, but it did. Neat. Oh, man.
I just, I kind of wonder, like, what happened
to Matt Dillon? You know what I mean? I think
it's the voice. Honestly, the whole time is...
He sounds so dumb. He sounds like no dumb character.
There's no way of taking the Matt Dillon voice
and being like, well, you know, he's a respectable
authority figure that you should, like, follow
into the... Not a fucking chance. Like, you think
about, like, so, okay, you take... The Outsiders
group is really that group. So he was in the
Outsiders as well. So you have, like, Cruz, and
you have Rob Lowe, and you have... uh Swayze
and there's a handful of other folks in there
like uh but like he was also in there but like
he could never really break out and I think it's
the voice I think you're entirely right I was
trying to pinpoint what it is and he's just it's
a meathead voice he's also he's got like the
real mouth breather look about him too yeah that's
hard to get away from little simian yeah and
a lumpy good looking guy not gonna yeah yeah
yeah but monkey Yeah, like a good -looking monkey.
That is a very handsome monkey. So, like, on
that line, too, like, Mickey Rourke was a pretty
good -looking dude. I mean, he's kind of strange
-looking. I was thinking about it. It's like
if Sam Rockwell and Stephen Dorff fucked, but...
Let's take three seconds to think about that.
It's working for me. Take him off. Put him on.
Take him off, boys. But yeah, it's kind of a
shame. I mean, he really did get fucked up. Like,
he was... not a beautiful man but like i think
the funny thing is in the in the movie you see
him in the photo the motorcycle and he has long
hair and he looks handsome man his haircut is
so stupid it's very dumb whatever they do in
this it's so stupid it's a real it's a real dork
it looks like the haircut that every girl who's
eventually going to be a lesbian gets in the
eighth grade they're like oh that's who i am
now i guess yeah it looked to me like he was
going for some kind of a proto version of the
misfits because they like just cut in yeah a
uh a widow's peak on him yeah it's like forced
widow's peak yeah this is my bangs now this this
is how it's done he has such a gentle voice for
the whole thing you get meathead matt dylan he's
hey whatever i can't do it uh i'm not even trying
but like uh yeah it's just like ah rusty you
know these are yeah they belong in the river
whatever and then it's just such a contrast to
everybody else who's just coming off like really
blunt and kind of ridiculous good character yeah
it was a very it was that scene in the billiard
hall when they're just like no man he's the king
you're never gonna get there like you're just
not gonna happen like that was i don't know there's
just a bunch of really great scenes you could
cut out those are very powerful moments and i
think a lot of people in their life have lived
through which is like they realize something
about themselves that they're not going to be
and like the whole movie the whole movie is actually
matt dylan realizing like he's not who he thinks
he is right yeah no uh but that scene where it's
like you know you're not the king uh like because
that's nick cage they're outside benny's um and
it's like you're not the king it's like i would
be the king and you'd be like a second lieutenant
like that's the line or something but like at
the end of that like confrontation when like
rusty james realizes that you know yeah he's
not who he thinks he is he's kind of a joke he's
like he goes to you know like hand off the baton
like hand it hand the pool cue to nick cage and
like it's like all right it's you and nick cage
just like what the fuck dude just cut it out
like yeah we stop doing this now right i have
diane lane uh the gang does not exist you're
a silly man please stop doing performance i want
to know i want a movie about that other gang
the one they like effective gang the guy who
got motorcycled the guy got up until he got motorcycled
also like rusty james he gets his stomach cut
open with a big old piece of glass and then gets
fucking um piped to the head later like this
movie gets super serious then gets super like
just jokey real quick yeah i just think it's
a dreamscape the whole thing it's just like a
weird fevery surreal dream which is a cop -out
i could have like leaned in and said yes but
like the whole the whole thing is just like it
is ridiculous it's just like young men being
idiots And, like, overimagining their lives nonstop.
And you're stuck with this guy who thinks he's
going to be the most important human being ever.
And he's like, eh, you're kind of a Dylan. You're
kind of a Matt Dylan. Yeah, kind of a Matt Dylan.
That's what he's a Matt Dylan, yeah. But, yeah,
the fight scene, actually, I really like the
fight scene. It reminded me a lot of Clockwork
Orange, the big, like, gang scene there. And
I think maybe a little bit of a play on that,
which is, like, the gangs are so serious in that.
And it might be the same thing. Clockwork Orange,
the gangs are aging out and they're just becoming
older men. That's what it is. They're probably
the younger people who take over gangs or become
gangs. And it's the same thing. You're too old
for this shit, man. It's not fun anymore. Unlike
Warriors, where being a gang is still incredible.
You could dress up like a baseball boy or a clown.
Whatever you want, man. That's what I liked about
the other gang. They kind of had a theme going.
They were a real gang, that's the difference.
Murder? Kinda. They kinda had a vibe. Yeah. I
still do think it felt like a double dragon fight.
Oh yeah. You show up, everybody kind of kicking,
a knife flies off, you pick up the knife, you
can throw it twice before it disappears. I've
got to show them with a motorcycle. Before the
fight actually gets going, when they're just
swinging at each other, Rusty James does do the
hopping double kick a couple times. Yeah, it's
very video game. Later on, when Rusty gets hit
in the head with a pipe, and then Bicycle Boy.
Sorry, Motorcycle Boy. Well, he didn't have the
motorcycle at the time. Motorcyclist Boy shows
up and fights. It's the worst choreography. It
does bring us to the out -of -body experience.
I like that scene a lot, actually. That was a
cool effect. Yeah, so I was watching it in a
chair with my headphones on in my head, and,
like, the family was, like, over here doing stuff,
right? Doing their own thing. And, like, that
showed up, and I just went, like, hands up in
the air, like, what the fuck is this? Like, I
was not expecting it, like, delighted. I was
kind of delighted non -stop by all the decisions
that were being made, because, like... after
the first 20 minutes it just was not boring like
there was not a boring scene everything was kind
of visually interesting they were making crazy
decisions like did it add up to the best movie
absolutely not so but if i was going to steal
from a movie as a film director i would steal
out of this movie like crazy there's so many
things you could just rob from this movie and
put into a better movie and it would be awesome
I think that's the most agreeable sentence I've
heard from this. I was not a huge fan of this
one. I'll get that out of the way. It was the
longest hour and a half that I think I've ever
spent on this podcast. I'd say it a lot, too.
Longer than Croods 2? Yeah, dude. This movie
just felt like a full two -hour film when I was
watching it. maybe maybe it's the theatricality
uh being the theater major who doesn't like theater
uh it doesn't catch me it's just there were some
moments where i was like yeah that's great i
forgot what got me started on this i think i
think it's it's a it's a menu of really interesting
vignettes and scenes and ideas you know and like
it really again it feels like coppola was like
really just scrubbing and trying to make like
an indie movie trying things really like fucking
around and like feeling his way through it it
felt like that so like you know they're just
shots that look really great again them walking
through the downtown and like the audio shifts
based on the character who's talking is a really
brilliant idea and then like the out -of -body
thing where he just like is floating through
could have been terrible but again you're right
you're right when you put a lot of uh forced
uh artsy shit together yeah you're dragging me
through a lot to try to sell this yeah to me
it's like i was the whole time i was thinking
oh sorry well and that's kind of where i wanted
to like finally bring this to is so it's called
rumble fish and the big metaphor for their situation
at the end is are these fighting fish are the
rumble fish that mickey rourke's obsessed with
wants to steal and like set free and we get that
like really on the nose scene but i feel like
it worked really well after motorcycle boy's
dead rusty james is like throwing the fish in
the water and when he's thrown up against the
cop car and for the first time he's in color
like he sees his own reflection as those trapped
fish and that's when he decides to leave i love
that kind of crap i don't know i don't know why
i just it was earned they they really held it
for a long time yeah yeah yeah i thought it was
earned like it's like i said it's a little on
the nose but i loved it yeah i agree there's
a lot of stuff like that but i agree like there's
just these moments like ah i felt good and it
wasn't too much like it's like the whole movie
didn't flip to color it was just like a flash
and then you come back yeah well and then there's
that like extended And I just I love how it end
with that extended long shot of the entire cast
learning about Motorcycle Boy's death. And it's
cut and it's like everyone has their kind of
like little like moment of like you see everyone's
like immediate reaction to the death. And then
it just cuts to Motorcycle Boy Reigns and the
silhouette of Matt Dillon like riding off to
California. I'm like, which is super theatrical.
It's like what Nick keeps talking about. It is
a very. stage play so there's a there's a guy
named james or jamie lloyd i forget how you actually
say his name but i he's like the hot shit on
like the western and broadway and everything
he does has like projection screens and sexy
people tight underwear it's like all that kind
of stuff like this felt like a jamie lloyd production
of a movie right had he been around in like 1983
i feel like he would have made this movie i'm
gonna make a controversial statement here i think
my favorite character was the cop Because when
he killed Motorcycle Boy, it meant the movie
was over. Otherwise, the cops sucked. The cops
were pretty bad. If you ask Nick what the narrative
was, it was about a hard -nosed cop in Missouri
dealing with a bunch of fucking pretentious assholes.
Protecting a pet store. Nothing but steal from
pet stores and cause fights. Saves the day again.
Just keeps showing up. Sick -ass mustache. I
will say, the fucking bullet wound was like...
pretty gnarly yeah yeah i do like the cop a lot
so i like how he like just stood there yeah he
was like a monolith of like antagonism he was
angel of death yeah like he was just waiting
like the whole time he was just he was like because
he never see his eyes why are you showing up
he's like well because it's like shadow boy is
a dead man like he's out like he came back from
california he's destroyed he doesn't want to
be a part of this he doesn't know where to go
so he's gonna go he's like check out his gun
there was a eventually he's gonna go check out
yeah check out yeah we have a lot of checkouts
cops in the country these days that is true they're
always sure you show up at the screen early on
in the newsreel and well that's gonna turn into
a problem and it really does not get too political
but there we are well like i mean the cop even
has his own other than just yeah being you know
the harbinger of doom you know also uh when rusty
james like asks him in the middle of the films
like what's your problem with motorcycle boy
and the cop's response is like i see the one
thing you don't which is you know everyone looks
up to this thing and up to motorcycle boy and
like romanticizes that and he's like that's just
trouble that's just going to lead to more dead
kids and you know in the end kills motorcycle
boy and the other cops want to take in um rusty
james and he's the one who's like no let him
go like this is over now yeah there is heavily
an element of like this is the end of an era
yeah the whole thing like the whole thing starts
is like we're at the very tail end of something
and people need to like transition and move on
kind of thing yeah it's the decay of like this
previous culture that maybe wasn't so great to
begin with but like the romanticism is wearing
off and i think like you're uh we're talking
about earlier like uh cage's whole thing about
like why are you hanging against pool cubes it's
stupid like we're out of this you know what i
mean like just move on you're being a child yeah
all right final thoughts i liked it I said that
at the beginning. I'm saying it again. It grew
on me a lot, for sure. I understand where you're
coming from, though, Nick. I mean, it's fine.
I'm not upset about not liking it. It's not going
to make me lose sleep. Did you watch Primal right
after it as a palate cleanser? No, I think I
just went and cranked one out. There we go. To
Diane Lane. Diane Lane. God bless Diane Lane.
Modern Diane Lane. Diane Lane at any decade,
let's be fair. She's just working it. Yeah, I
don't know. I didn't like it for the first 20
minutes. I fell asleep last night, but it was
a bad time to start. I watched it again this
afternoon and ended up really enjoying it. Will
I watch it again ever? No. But will I go and
find scenes from it online and probably be like...
look at it a little deeper no yeah i know what
you're talking about i got shit things to look
at on instagram or something yeah i'm not studying
things from rumble yeah i think it's totally
worth a watch i think especially if you're into
photography and that's part of like what you
like about movies like it looks great Yeah, if
you have the longest hour and a half of your
life just sitting there in front of you with
nothing else to do. If the doctor tells you the
cancer is incredibly aggressive and you have
two hours left. Whoa, do something better. Make
some macaroni and cheese. Well, you just want
it to spread out. You just want to see how long
can you make it. A bowl of mac and cheese that
takes about 15 minutes to make. And then watch
Rumblefish. and you know you got you got another
month you got one more month of your life right
there i think if i had an okay hold on if i had
an hour and a half to live i would probably do
the most like ridiculous like unbelievable like
i would have sex with that bowl of mac and cheese
sure and i'd leave it on the counter that's like
three minutes that's somebody else yeah Max,
you're done. Well, yeah, you know, I'm already
hot and bothered by their mixing noises. I think
if you're going to have an hour and a half, you've
got to leave post -nut clarity for, like, the
last 45 seconds. Like, that has to be an epiphany
moment. Like, you have to, like, save that for
the very last minute. And then you do your thing,
and you're like, oh, I get it now, and then you're
out. What if I have sex with a mac and cheese?
Okay. I watched the last 45 seconds. Just the
last 45 seconds. Straight to it. Fucking garbage
memes on Instagram the rest of the day. Then
we'll say you lived a great life. That's a life
well lived. Going out strong. Alright, well,
thank you all for listening. You can find us
on social media. I don't know. Probably. We haven't
done much on that lately. But you can support
us if you want. And if not... I don't care. Yeah,
buy my next box of mac and cheese, please. Yeah,
Nick needs mac and cheese. I'm running out. I
stopped smoking, and now I just can't get laid.
Well, yeah, thank you to our Sparkle Buddies,
Josh, Josie, Rico, Matt, Adam, Bill, and Stuart,
and to our Cage Dancers, Ira, John, Freeman,
Nathan, and Cameron. Thank you guys for listening
and supporting Rusty James. I love you all very
much. Rusty James. Rusty James. Rusty James.
That's dumb. There we go. I nailed it. That was
hard. Yeah. Cruel harmony, but harmony nonetheless.
That's what my karaoke was like. For everyone
else.