1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,600
Oh, God. Oh, my God.

2
00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,440
I got to like an area was like, OK, there's like six people at a

3
00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:17,880
like reception desk and none of them are Nathan.

4
00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:23,980
And one of them is going to notice that I'm in Carhartt's and I'm filthy.

5
00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,720
So then I like bailed.

6
00:00:27,860 --> 00:00:28,220
You made it.

7
00:00:28,220 --> 00:00:30,860
But yeah, I tried to like go and say hey to Nathan.

8
00:00:31,460 --> 00:00:33,960
Hey, Nathan, Patreon supporter, Nathan. Hello.

9
00:00:34,420 --> 00:00:36,500
Thank you. Yeah. Support us on Patreon.

10
00:00:36,500 --> 00:00:37,800
I'll make work visits.

11
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I might not get past the initial security check, but I'll try.

12
00:00:41,300 --> 00:00:43,600
It's worth a shot. Yeah.

13
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,800
I hear that at your work, you get Milanos.

14
00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,740
I do. I know. Fancy fucking bitch ass.

15
00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:50,480
Yeah. You get Milanos.

16
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King size bed is great. I know.

17
00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,720
Look at you. You've really come up.

18
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,560
The only extra research I've done on this is watch the Rugrats episode. Did you?

19
00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,320
Oh, yes. I can't.

20
00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,420
Yeah. Good. I'm so glad you did that.

21
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Because I know we danced around that the first time.

22
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The sad lost episode.

23
00:01:07,260 --> 00:01:10,260
So, yes, we're this is we're officially podcasting.

24
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Now we lost an episode. We have to record something.

25
00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:14,680
Things over again.

26
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,380
This time it's going to be weirder. Yeah.

27
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I'm sensing we have.

28
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Yeah, we're bringing in some rich secondary texts into this episode.

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I guess.

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I did some deep dives into YouTube comments on clips from the kiss of death.

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Please. Oh, God. I just I just rewatched both movies today.

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But I have some new thoughts on Kiss of Death, having just got done with it

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half an hour ago.

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News. New thoughts being it wins.

35
00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:45,040
Sure. Well, here's good.

36
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Here's a question I have. You guys are in season two still.

37
00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,840
Yeah, yeah. Technically, this is now officially our last episode of the round of 32.

38
00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,440
So we're heading into the 16, then the master eight.

39
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OK. And final four skin.

40
00:01:57,140 --> 00:02:00,060
OK, because I was I was going to say adults.

41
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,960
I mean, one of us has multiple children, so technically we're adults.

42
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,160
Yeah, kind of. Kind of.

43
00:02:09,620 --> 00:02:11,660
I just left my kids at home.

44
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Well, you have an older one now that can watch the younger one.

45
00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,500
That's true. Yeah, she's almost three.

46
00:02:15,500 --> 00:02:17,140
Yeah, that's why you have first children.

47
00:02:17,140 --> 00:02:21,740
So you can have a babysitter when you have a better child. Correct. Yeah.

48
00:02:21,740 --> 00:02:23,980
Cora doesn't listen to this, right? Not yet.

49
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Well, we should probably get this out of the way.

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Welcome back to Cage Magical and around about way of meeting Nicholas Cage.

51
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I'm your host, Sean, here with my cohost Nick.

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I'm Nick. Well done.

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00:02:32,820 --> 00:02:34,880
And our producer, Peter. Hello.

54
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,280
And we have back for the third time, though, you're only hearing them

55
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for the second time. Our guests. Gary on the air.

56
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And Roxanne.

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Yeah, I love to have you back.

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I guess you're better at our job than us.

59
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Yeah, but their laptops didn't get stolen.

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We make we make them share a mic to try and bring them down to our level.

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But yeah, welcome back.

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Thank you for tolerating the fact that that entire episode,

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which was actually pretty fucking funny, got lost.

64
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I'm bummed about that.

65
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Yeah, me too. No, I do.

66
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But this was going to be a death march. Yeah.

67
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I'm tired. Yeah, me too.

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I took a nap. Lucky.

69
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And then I pre drank

70
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because it felt like the episode I was just going to bring like

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bottles of liquor and just have bottles on the table.

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I would have made a good Patreon picture, but thank you for not.

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I think I mean, there's a few things left in the bar.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I might get housed.

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00:03:29,580 --> 00:03:32,020
We'll see. We'll see what happens later in this episode

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if we really want to bust into the brown liquors.

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Peter will have a real hard time editing continuity into this.

79
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But he has to just leave it.

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We can only drink liquor if we're able to take shots

81
00:03:44,020 --> 00:03:46,360
from between your titties, Nick.

82
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,060
That's fair. That seems reasonable.

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I am the most Elizabeth shoe built human.

84
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Totally.

85
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Maybe only on the top like quarter part of my body, but

86
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still counts.

87
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That's an important part.

88
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She's got one of those big old noggin like me.

89
00:04:03,140 --> 00:04:06,840
So in this show, a little bit, we take we take 64 Nicholas Cage movies,

90
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bracket them out and figure out what the most catious film is.

91
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As decided by Nick and me this week, it is the return of Kiss of Death

92
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and leaving Las Vegas.

93
00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,900
You make it sound like a sequel to Kiss of Death.

94
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Definitely.

95
00:04:22,620 --> 00:04:24,660
Yes. All right.

96
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I'm just sad we don't get more.

97
00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,860
What's his fucking name, Ronnie?

98
00:04:27,860 --> 00:04:29,140
Oh, fucking Rappaport.

99
00:04:29,140 --> 00:04:31,700
Yeah. Oh, God, I was trying to remember his name the other day

100
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and I was on the stairs talking to Josie and we're like, you know,

101
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and kiss of death. It's got that guy.

102
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You know, the guy is a hey, ma.

103
00:04:38,540 --> 00:04:40,940
Yeah, it's that fucking cat again.

104
00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,980
I was thinking about this and I was like, she knew half asleep

105
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sort of, you know, in between life and death.

106
00:04:48,420 --> 00:04:49,660
Yeah, pretty much.

107
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And I was thinking about Michael Rappaport and I was like, you know,

108
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if you look like that, dude, you never get a shot to be like

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the leading man or the handsome romantic comedy guy.

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Like you are always either going to be like the friendly, weird neighbor

111
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or a shit bag. That that's it.

112
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That is sitcom for a minute.

113
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Was he a shit bag or was he the friendly neighbor?

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He had a he was. Yeah, he was the main guy.

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He was the dad.

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Was he a bad dad? He was a neighbor to someone. Yeah.

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I mean, he was a shit.

118
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He was a shitty dad, but he was a dad.

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You you. Thank you. Case in point.

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Have you ever wondered what a spin off of home improvement

121
00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,860
would have been like from Wilson's point of view?

122
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My aunt knows that dude.

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I mean, he's dead now, but she sang in the choir with him.

124
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Should I see his face?

125
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That actually kind of brought me down.

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Why do you have to? Sorry.

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Take it back.

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I can't.

129
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I want to know what the rest of that bit was.

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There was no bit.

131
00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,140
I just kind of wanted to know.

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This is one of my off the cuff questions.

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That's what I'm famous for. Yeah.

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He was into skin flicks.

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Oh, fuck. Yeah. OK.

136
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Now I'm engaged.

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00:05:52,340 --> 00:05:55,060
So they were inquired together and he whacked off a lot.

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Mm hmm. Nice.

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00:05:56,260 --> 00:05:58,380
Your kind of guy. He is my kind of guy.

140
00:05:59,420 --> 00:06:01,920
I don't know how to get some of those.

141
00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:03,560
Sometimes I just dig a hole.

142
00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,460
Since we're sort of dancing around the fact that we've done this before,

143
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I think we can just go with kiss of death to start.

144
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I know, Rox, you've got something definitely that I want to hear about this.

145
00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:16,400
What the what?

146
00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,880
Well, I can lead with a couple of comments from YouTube.

147
00:06:22,020 --> 00:06:26,180
So is the whole I just want to know, is the whole movie on YouTube?

148
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So, yes, it is.

149
00:06:27,420 --> 00:06:31,020
And that's how Rob and I watched this movie as it was intended.

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00:06:31,020 --> 00:06:33,360
Yes. Like you can't stream it.

151
00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:39,100
It's only available on DVD or through this one YouTube upload.

152
00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,500
I had a Spanish import blu-ray.

153
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So, yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.

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He didn't go down that path.

155
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We went down the path.

156
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And the vessel of death.

157
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But yeah, the one that you can watch on YouTube

158
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PSA for anyone else who is thinking of watching this movie,

159
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you can watch on YouTube to get it right.

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It should have been you.

161
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,120
Yeah, you fucked it up.

162
00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,160
But I don't speak Spanish.

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I just have melanin.

164
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You don't just know Spanish because you have melanin racist.

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Sorry.

166
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I'm sorry.

167
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Yeah, sorry.

168
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And also sorry.

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One of these is my it's my fate to get trod upon because I too am a rapport.

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I don't know if you guys know this.

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It's true.

172
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Do I need to crack that out?

173
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No, that's fine. OK.

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00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,820
I do. I actually have an uncle named Michael Rapaport.

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00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,360
Is it him? No.

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Damn it.

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Because you got to tell us if it is.

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00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:38,600
Yeah, no.

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Those are the rules.

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00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,460
Fuck, I didn't vary the lead.

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00:07:41,460 --> 00:07:42,500
It's not him.

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00:07:42,500 --> 00:07:45,500
But OK, so on YouTube, you can watch Kiss of Death.

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00:07:45,500 --> 00:07:47,100
However, it is.

184
00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:50,480
It was like a recording that somebody made of their TV screens.

185
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:51,880
The whole thing is flipped.

186
00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,580
It's backwards. Incredible.

187
00:07:53,580 --> 00:07:56,540
And it's very blurry

188
00:07:56,540 --> 00:08:01,140
to the point that literally it wasn't until today when I watched some

189
00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,880
like other shorter YouTube videos of just clips from the movie.

190
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,760
I only then realized that the movie was set in the 1990s

191
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,860
and not in the 1940s, which I thought it was based on the aesthetic

192
00:08:13,860 --> 00:08:17,160
of how it looks when it's really blurry and backwards.

193
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,360
I want to watch this version.

194
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:20,060
I've been watching it.

195
00:08:20,060 --> 00:08:21,340
It was a CRT.

196
00:08:21,340 --> 00:08:22,400
I've been watching it clean.

197
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:23,800
This is I fucked up.

198
00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,500
I mean, you can give it a shot.

199
00:08:26,500 --> 00:08:28,900
To be honest, I don't think Robin, I made it through the whole thing.

200
00:08:28,900 --> 00:08:32,140
We watched most of it and then read the Wikipedia summary.

201
00:08:32,140 --> 00:08:33,980
Because it was hard to handle.

202
00:08:33,980 --> 00:08:35,580
But I did finish it.

203
00:08:35,580 --> 00:08:36,920
I watched it before.

204
00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,060
So you did your homework the first time.

205
00:08:39,060 --> 00:08:41,960
Yeah. Anyway, Gary always goes to completion.

206
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,220
That's true. OK.

207
00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,360
Can tell us more about that later, Nick.

208
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,940
OK, so well, here's a good place to start.

209
00:08:51,940 --> 00:08:56,500
PS5 and stuff here made the comment never heard of it.

210
00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,000
It looks good.

211
00:08:59,340 --> 00:09:03,140
A response from Planet Hellgate 1278,

212
00:09:03,340 --> 00:09:05,680
one of the most hardcore movies I ever saw.

213
00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:07,520
I fucking love this movie.

214
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,720
I wanted to be like Nicholas Cage after this movie.

215
00:09:10,980 --> 00:09:13,980
To be fair, I would like to bench press Hope Davis as well.

216
00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,060
Yeah. I mean, 40 times, 40 times.

217
00:09:17,300 --> 00:09:18,420
Are you dad watching?

218
00:09:18,420 --> 00:09:20,660
Well, I mean, you want dad to watch.

219
00:09:20,660 --> 00:09:24,600
Another quick one here at Carl

220
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,840
Niemiecki says, excellent movie.

221
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:28,940
Five stars.

222
00:09:28,940 --> 00:09:31,440
One of the greatest twists in movie history.

223
00:09:31,740 --> 00:09:34,020
Nothing is what it seems.

224
00:09:34,020 --> 00:09:37,420
And I love how the trailer doesn't show you the twist.

225
00:09:38,780 --> 00:09:39,580
Are these plants?

226
00:09:39,580 --> 00:09:41,980
What? What was the twist?

227
00:09:41,980 --> 00:09:43,320
Yeah. Well, I don't know.

228
00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,120
That was exactly the question I asked myself.

229
00:09:47,220 --> 00:09:49,920
I can't think of a single twist in this entire fucking movie.

230
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,220
Seems like a great lead in to know a flat straight line.

231
00:09:53,220 --> 00:09:54,900
Absolutely. Yeah.

232
00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:58,220
OK, so I'm the only one who hasn't rewatched this recently.

233
00:09:58,460 --> 00:10:00,740
Surprisingly, so so sum it up for us.

234
00:10:01,300 --> 00:10:03,360
OK, from memory, I think.

235
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,540
What was this like almost six months ago that we watched in a while?

236
00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:07,640
Close to that. Yeah.

237
00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,540
So about six months ago.

238
00:10:09,540 --> 00:10:13,440
So there's a ginger guy and he

239
00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:16,140
is living the straight life after prison.

240
00:10:16,140 --> 00:10:19,820
He gets wrapped up in like some bullshit.

241
00:10:19,820 --> 00:10:23,580
When Michael Rappaport comes by his place and he's like, Hey, man,

242
00:10:23,580 --> 00:10:26,320
you got to like drive for me tonight, just tonight.

243
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,720
Like I'm your boy. I've always been there.

244
00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:33,920
Oh, like his parents took care of the ginger when he was a lonely child.

245
00:10:34,260 --> 00:10:35,900
So he's like, fine, I'll do it.

246
00:10:35,900 --> 00:10:38,440
But I got a baby, so it's got to be cool.

247
00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,400
And Rappaport's like, it's cool.

248
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,840
So they do this thing and he like has to drive a truck

249
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,740
full of stolen cars from A to B.

250
00:10:47,740 --> 00:10:51,180
But they do it the dumb way and then the cops catch on.

251
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,780
And so the cops pull him over

252
00:10:54,780 --> 00:10:59,660
and a drunk guy in the cab shoot Samuel L.

253
00:10:59,660 --> 00:11:04,560
Jackson. And so the ginger gets blamed and he goes.

254
00:11:04,660 --> 00:11:05,920
OK, here we go.

255
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:07,960
He goes on the lam.

256
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,300
This is now I'm getting sketchy on it.

257
00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,640
Hold on. No, wait, let me let me think about this one more time.

258
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,940
Yes, circle back. B.A.D. Oh, yeah.

259
00:11:16,940 --> 00:11:22,540
Oh, he gets pulled in because now he has to be like a mole

260
00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:24,980
for the shit cops.

261
00:11:24,980 --> 00:11:30,360
So he goes undercover into this whole crime ring

262
00:11:30,620 --> 00:11:35,160
that includes Nicolas Cage and cool like cutaway shirts.

263
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,320
And oh, he's got a goatee, which is is this is only goatee.

264
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,460
How many goatees have we had Nicolas Cage?

265
00:11:41,460 --> 00:11:43,440
We have a goatee with a sympathy for the devil.

266
00:11:43,940 --> 00:11:46,000
Yeah. Yeah. OK.

267
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,100
But like those are that's you.

268
00:11:49,140 --> 00:11:49,680
It's nice.

269
00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:52,440
It's honestly a pretty decent look for him.

270
00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:54,980
It really changes his face.

271
00:11:54,980 --> 00:12:00,740
So Ginger Guy gets in decent with Nicolas Cage and

272
00:12:00,940 --> 00:12:02,620
Nicolas Cage has asthma.

273
00:12:02,620 --> 00:12:04,120
Oh, yeah.

274
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:08,820
And he's got a cool bedazzled inhaler that says B.A.D.,

275
00:12:08,820 --> 00:12:12,100
which stands for balls, attitude and direction.

276
00:12:12,460 --> 00:12:14,000
I know that.

277
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,980
Yeah, that's for life now.

278
00:12:15,980 --> 00:12:19,340
Yeah. We struggled over it so much in the last six months,

279
00:12:19,340 --> 00:12:22,380
constantly trying to remind ourselves what it's done for.

280
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,480
So, yeah, he's got inhaler and they become chums

281
00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:30,920
and they're doing, I don't know, heckles and stuff together.

282
00:12:31,180 --> 00:12:34,400
And then Ginger.

283
00:12:35,020 --> 00:12:37,000
Oh, he did some time, didn't he?

284
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:37,800
He did. Yeah.

285
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,900
OK. So like when he got picked up earlier, he did some time.

286
00:12:40,900 --> 00:12:44,400
And then his wife was like working for Michael Rappaport.

287
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,180
And Michael Rappaport was a real scumbag and he tried to sleep with her.

288
00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:50,840
He did sleep with her.

289
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:51,640
Yeah.

290
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,280
I it's blurry, much like her night that night.

291
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,420
This is going to be heavily edited at this point.

292
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:01,320
Can you just speed it up really fast?

293
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,620
Yeah. Just three times.

294
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:04,720
That's fine.

295
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:06,760
And Rappaport died.

296
00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:11,400
So when Ginger gets out, he manufactures

297
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,040
the circumstances that gets Rappaport killed.

298
00:13:14,260 --> 00:13:16,700
He gets beat to death.

299
00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:18,500
Oh, nice. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

300
00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:20,840
He does by Nicolas Cage in a poncho.

301
00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:22,300
Yeah, that was good. OK.

302
00:13:22,300 --> 00:13:22,940
I remember that.

303
00:13:22,940 --> 00:13:24,000
Never walk into an office

304
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,040
where everyone's wearing ponchos and they're laying out plastic.

305
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,380
Yeah. Just turn around.

306
00:13:28,380 --> 00:13:30,580
Also, Ving Reims is in this and dies.

307
00:13:30,580 --> 00:13:32,020
Oh, yeah. Ving Reims. Red.

308
00:13:32,020 --> 00:13:34,320
Oh, yeah, that's so cool.

309
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:35,460
I liked that a lot.

310
00:13:35,460 --> 00:13:37,020
He wouldn't take the Land Rover.

311
00:13:37,020 --> 00:13:37,660
It's a bad color.

312
00:13:37,660 --> 00:13:39,600
Is it a layer over in this movie?

313
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,760
Has like a stick to the point where it's just like their caricatures.

314
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,140
Sam Jackson has the leaky eye.

315
00:13:46,140 --> 00:13:48,400
Being Reims doesn't like the color red.

316
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:50,360
The that's the twist, though.

317
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,100
OK. Ving Reims is the twist because he was a fed.

318
00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:54,180
He was a fed. Yeah.

319
00:13:54,180 --> 00:13:57,340
Oh, there it is. Yeah.

320
00:13:57,340 --> 00:13:58,180
Thanks.

321
00:13:58,480 --> 00:13:59,080
And then.

322
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,780
Lover 28.

323
00:14:01,780 --> 00:14:03,180
And then Nick Cage has too many things.

324
00:14:03,180 --> 00:14:04,280
You're allowed one thing.

325
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:08,520
But Nick Cage has asthma and doesn't like the taste of metal in his mouth.

326
00:14:08,820 --> 00:14:09,760
Yeah, no.

327
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,020
So he couldn't get plastic forks in jail.

328
00:14:12,260 --> 00:14:15,920
He had to use metal forks because somebody had tipped him off.

329
00:14:16,260 --> 00:14:17,800
Also, Stanley Tucci is in this.

330
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,200
Oh, yeah. This more to that's good.

331
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,600
He's like a D.A. or some shit.

332
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,340
Yeah. Like a dirty D.A.

333
00:14:24,340 --> 00:14:26,280
Trying to angle for mayor or some shit.

334
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,340
Classic DDA.

335
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:30,840
Caruso. What's what's his name?

336
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,020
David the ginger Caruso.

337
00:14:33,020 --> 00:14:34,220
Yeah. Yeah.

338
00:14:34,220 --> 00:14:35,560
What more do you want from me?

339
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:36,860
David Caruso.

340
00:14:36,860 --> 00:14:40,120
No, I thought that was his character name from from

341
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,900
whatever cop show he's on forever.

342
00:14:42,900 --> 00:14:45,000
Yeah. No, I guess I was NYPD Blue.

343
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,240
NYPD. We talked about this last time.

344
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:48,960
And I met David Caruso.

345
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:53,540
I mentioned the cultural phenomenon that that it was when he got out of bed

346
00:14:53,540 --> 00:14:55,880
naked. Right. Yeah, I do.

347
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:56,700
Yeah. Yeah.

348
00:14:56,700 --> 00:15:00,380
And doing research after the fact, because I just spitballed it

349
00:15:00,380 --> 00:15:02,480
at the time the first time we were on the show.

350
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,960
But yes, in fact, it was a moment.

351
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:10,020
And we were musing about his career and how like tepid it seemed.

352
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,620
Another thing that I recall from the last time we were on is we were talking

353
00:15:13,620 --> 00:15:15,800
about Nicolas Cage as villain.

354
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,100
Why you think he hasn't played more villains in his career?

355
00:15:19,100 --> 00:15:23,440
Because I didn't think this film was all that great or entertaining.

356
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:28,000
However, you know, he he does his damn thing

357
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,100
and he makes the villain character interesting.

358
00:15:30,100 --> 00:15:32,080
And you do want to watch him be a villain.

359
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,720
At least I wanted to continue to watch him do villainous things.

360
00:15:34,780 --> 00:15:36,720
He doesn't do a lot of villain roles.

361
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,580
He's changing that a bit more in his later career because somebody for the devil.

362
00:15:40,580 --> 00:15:42,220
He plays a great psychopath.

363
00:15:42,220 --> 00:15:44,220
And it looks like long legs.

364
00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:46,460
He has a very disturbing role.

365
00:15:46,460 --> 00:15:48,160
Yeah, he's a serial killer on that.

366
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:49,860
Yeah. So that's kind of villainous.

367
00:15:49,860 --> 00:15:51,160
Yeah. It's involved in film.

368
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:52,600
And he kind of.

369
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,000
I don't know. Dexter was a killer.

370
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,400
My own villainy. What?

371
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:57,840
It's like one of the worst kinds.

372
00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,100
Hey, man, I haven't seen it yet.

373
00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:00,940
I'm not going to prejudge.

374
00:16:00,940 --> 00:16:04,680
You don't know what I think he just dips his toe in a little bit of evil.

375
00:16:04,980 --> 00:16:07,280
And maybe he gets out clean.

376
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,380
It's a redemption story. Yeah.

377
00:16:09,380 --> 00:16:12,780
Well, he probably had a dad who died of an asthma attack.

378
00:16:12,820 --> 00:16:14,120
I think they're gaslighting us.

379
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:18,180
I think this is actually a romantic comedy, and I'm going to go into it with that vibe

380
00:16:20,620 --> 00:16:23,060
with lotions and stuff.

381
00:16:23,860 --> 00:16:26,900
Nick Cage doesn't do a lot of like heels.

382
00:16:26,940 --> 00:16:29,040
And so it's always interesting to see him.

383
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,340
Little Junior Brown is just such an odd character.

384
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,700
He's just got the most character, I feel like, in the story.

385
00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:37,880
And I think that's fair.

386
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,480
Initially could have attracted Nicholas Cage because he does look for

387
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:43,620
interesting characters.

388
00:16:43,620 --> 00:16:46,540
And this is also his biggest I think he's ever been in a film.

389
00:16:46,580 --> 00:16:48,680
He's pretty fucking Jack in his fullness.

390
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,020
Yeah. I mean, Conair, he was pretty ripped to this was.

391
00:16:52,060 --> 00:16:54,060
When was this? When did this movie come out? 95.

392
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:55,920
When Conor come out?

393
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:57,600
Ninety seven.

394
00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,880
So that was kind of his swole era.

395
00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,180
Wait, that's that's wild to me, actually, that this came out in 95

396
00:17:03,180 --> 00:17:06,080
because didn't leaving Las Vegas come out in 94.

397
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,820
Yeah, I think we talked about that, that these movies like they were.

398
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:10,920
They're very right after.

399
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,820
His body is totally different in the two movies entirely.

400
00:17:13,860 --> 00:17:16,620
Yeah. It's like from schlub to.

401
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,500
How old is he at this point? Rectangle.

402
00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:24,300
And I think Kiss of Death was probably recorded earlier,

403
00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:27,440
just languished for a while because it's bad.

404
00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:30,980
I really I've really turned around on this one

405
00:17:30,980 --> 00:17:34,580
because I really remembered enjoying it more like the first couple of times

406
00:17:34,580 --> 00:17:36,380
we watch it because I'm like, this is weird.

407
00:17:36,380 --> 00:17:38,980
Caruso's bad, but it's got a bunch of good people in it.

408
00:17:38,980 --> 00:17:41,020
And Nick Cage is weird.

409
00:17:41,020 --> 00:17:42,360
And I rewatched it today.

410
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:44,020
I'm like, nobody cares.

411
00:17:44,020 --> 00:17:46,560
Nobody's trying. Nick Cage isn't even really trying.

412
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,060
Hold on. What's the name of the strip club?

413
00:17:49,060 --> 00:17:50,700
This is important. Baby cakes.

414
00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:53,500
Oh, fuck. Yeah, baby cakes.

415
00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:55,440
I'm back on this movie's awesome.

416
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,500
That place is that place is so well lit.

417
00:17:58,980 --> 00:17:59,640
Yeah. Totally.

418
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,280
They've got some cool metallic plants and rotating mirrors.

419
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,780
But I don't want to see other I don't want to see other like sleazebags.

420
00:18:06,820 --> 00:18:10,180
No, I don't want to be able to look at their other perverts in the eye.

421
00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:13,460
That's been my problem with like Washington strip clubs.

422
00:18:13,660 --> 00:18:18,700
And why I've never gone is like without the filter of alcohol.

423
00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:22,220
It's just a bunch of sober dudes skis and on chicks like 20 years.

424
00:18:22,220 --> 00:18:24,240
They're junior. Pretty gross.

425
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:25,360
It's hella gross.

426
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:29,800
It's like you need alcohol to lubricate the situation and make it social

427
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,380
and not just like dudes remembering things.

428
00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:35,140
I think maybe is that the weird part?

429
00:18:35,140 --> 00:18:37,640
Like you're going to remember it all.

430
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,320
My friends went to like we were in Portland recently

431
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,660
and people wanted to go to a strip club and we're like, oh, OK.

432
00:18:44,660 --> 00:18:46,580
And it's like the first night and we're like, just like

433
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:50,020
some of us just dropped our shit off and like had two drinks.

434
00:18:50,020 --> 00:18:52,060
And it's like strip club time.

435
00:18:52,060 --> 00:18:54,160
And we're like, walking, I'm like, sitting there, I'm like,

436
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,500
hold on, something's not right.

437
00:18:56,500 --> 00:18:57,860
The sun is still up.

438
00:18:57,860 --> 00:19:00,060
It's like eight thirty in the evening.

439
00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:02,700
This is the wrong time to hit a strip club.

440
00:19:02,700 --> 00:19:03,700
I don't care that it's Friday.

441
00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:08,340
I mean, like at least maybe you're getting the B minus squad then.

442
00:19:08,340 --> 00:19:12,040
But yeah, a friend of ours also was talking about how strip clubs

443
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:13,720
in Portland are full nude.

444
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,680
Yes, like, you know, what's really weird

445
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,480
when you just see someone's butthole?

446
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:24,120
I don't know that I need that unless you grow up seeing buttholes.

447
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,720
And then it's weird to go to somewhere where you're like,

448
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,460
wait, why can't I see your butthole?

449
00:19:30,460 --> 00:19:33,860
Washington, I have to be sober and I can't even look at a butthole.

450
00:19:33,860 --> 00:19:35,300
Oh, yeah.

451
00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:37,740
Virginia, the fucking Commonwealth,

452
00:19:38,860 --> 00:19:41,000
their strip club laws, no nipple.

453
00:19:41,540 --> 00:19:43,040
Yeah, Missouri was like that, too.

454
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,640
Huh? It's like, so what's the point?

455
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,140
You know what you can see?

456
00:19:47,140 --> 00:19:47,800
You know what you could see?

457
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,940
Nipple a fucking like life drawing event.

458
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:52,380
Sure enough. Yeah.

459
00:19:52,380 --> 00:19:59,620
Um, does that rule cross genders like at a male strip club review?

460
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,320
We call them reviews. OK.

461
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,560
I mean, I'm not there to critique or anything.

462
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,080
I'm just. That's a good point.

463
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:06,320
I'm not there for the pasties.

464
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,020
Yeah. Male pasties.

465
00:20:08,020 --> 00:20:08,960
I mean, I assume they're similar.

466
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,460
That's fucking hilarious, too.

467
00:20:11,460 --> 00:20:12,660
Like, I hope so.

468
00:20:12,660 --> 00:20:13,660
Otherwise, that's unfair.

469
00:20:13,660 --> 00:20:16,760
What would OK, one quick survey and then back to the movie.

470
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,600
What would be your pasty choice

471
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,600
for my sides? Nick Cage's face.

472
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:24,940
That's a pretty good. That's a good choice.

473
00:20:24,940 --> 00:20:27,340
Good one. Yeah. See, that's an option.

474
00:20:27,340 --> 00:20:29,120
Which one this. OK.

475
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:30,220
No more thinking.

476
00:20:30,220 --> 00:20:32,480
OK, well, you go first then rocks.

477
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,060
One would say B.A. and the other one would say D.

478
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:38,920
Nice. All right.

479
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,500
My my would be little tiny trash can lids with Oscar the Grouch's face on him.

480
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:45,300
Oh, that's good.

481
00:20:45,300 --> 00:20:47,800
Mine would just be my face going.

482
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,400
Oh, OK. Yeah, that's fair.

483
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,300
Mine would be photos of my nipples.

484
00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:55,240
Smart loophole. Yeah, totally got them.

485
00:20:56,140 --> 00:20:58,480
Mine gets complicated and.

486
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,080
Oh, I'm good.

487
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,580
So I'd probably like, you know, the like flower,

488
00:21:03,580 --> 00:21:06,880
the seltzer flower that clowns would have in their pocket.

489
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,080
So I'd get like seltzer flowers.

490
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,620
I'd probably start taking a lot of estrogen, like beforehand,

491
00:21:14,620 --> 00:21:18,760
but like for months beforehand, and then I'd force myself to lactate.

492
00:21:19,260 --> 00:21:23,060
And I would do a show where like maybe I'm dressed like a clown.

493
00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:27,660
And does your milk come out of the seltzer flowers or is it?

494
00:21:27,660 --> 00:21:29,000
Yeah, yeah, that's the thing.

495
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,880
So I'll be dancing, I'll be getting up there on the ladies.

496
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,200
And then it's like,

497
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,540
I don't know, do they pull my finger or?

498
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:40,980
Oh, here. Here's what it is.

499
00:21:40,980 --> 00:21:44,180
Yeah, you honk my nose, which is obviously on my G string.

500
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,520
And then I just milk on your face.

501
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,120
Hmm. Well, I think you've covered this movie well enough.

502
00:21:53,260 --> 00:21:54,220
I'm kidding.

503
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:58,660
Bye, Sean.

504
00:21:58,660 --> 00:22:00,860
So we are taking applications for a new host.

505
00:22:00,860 --> 00:22:05,500
We lost one tonight. I was a life

506
00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:07,960
drawing model for a spell in college.

507
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,580
I answered a flyer that I found on a telephone pole in college town.

508
00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:17,740
That was the number you called was the number of Bill the Magician.

509
00:22:19,820 --> 00:22:21,320
I called that number.

510
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,980
What did the flyers say that was so enticing?

511
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,420
Money. Oh, yeah, that's good.

512
00:22:26,420 --> 00:22:27,320
Yeah.

513
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,680
Did OK, this is important only because I had several life

514
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,620
drawing models that I've experienced in my life, and they all had like a staff

515
00:22:34,620 --> 00:22:36,060
that they know. Yeah. Yeah.

516
00:22:36,060 --> 00:22:38,300
The staff. Did you have a staff?

517
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:41,720
No. Now I feel like I need to go back there and ask why.

518
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,600
Every every Demetri that I ever drew had a staff.

519
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,300
I mean, Demetri said, you don't have any.

520
00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:49,540
I think we've had this conversation.

521
00:22:49,540 --> 00:22:51,540
Yeah, they have the staff. What for leaning?

522
00:22:51,540 --> 00:22:53,680
Yeah. And like, it gets a good angle. Yeah.

523
00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:55,580
For the angle. Yeah.

524
00:22:55,580 --> 00:22:57,580
Kiss of Death. What do you guys think?

525
00:22:57,580 --> 00:23:01,920
It's a made for TV movie that somehow got real stars.

526
00:23:02,180 --> 00:23:03,980
Yeah, it's wild. Yeah.

527
00:23:03,980 --> 00:23:06,260
Like, I don't know who thought Caruso could be

528
00:23:07,180 --> 00:23:10,200
Hollywood leading man, but they were wrong and I hope they lost their job.

529
00:23:12,260 --> 00:23:16,660
Yeah, this definitely hits that like weekend

530
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,060
early afternoon syndicated TV.

531
00:23:23,180 --> 00:23:24,780
It's not great.

532
00:23:24,780 --> 00:23:25,980
It's not terrible, though.

533
00:23:25,980 --> 00:23:27,540
I don't think it's like the worst.

534
00:23:27,540 --> 00:23:29,880
I don't I don't remember thinking to myself

535
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,720
this movie never should have been made because it's got Michael Rappaport.

536
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,720
And any time I see him, that's an open invitation to imitate his voice.

537
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,720
And that's worth something to me. You mean your voice? Yes.

538
00:23:43,420 --> 00:23:46,600
It's it's worth it for me to use my voice

539
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,640
in a manner that makes fun of somebody else.

540
00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:53,700
I don't disagree with Lovey 1980.

541
00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:58,400
But the 1990s had some of the best innovative and risky films

542
00:23:58,780 --> 00:24:00,240
that Hollywood has ever produced.

543
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,080
But I I do not agree that this was one of them.

544
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,020
Shout out Lovey 1980.

545
00:24:07,020 --> 00:24:10,060
Yeah, it was very mediocre the whole time.

546
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:16,260
Yeah, didn't love it, but really did enjoy watching Cage do villain things

547
00:24:16,260 --> 00:24:21,160
and would watch him play all sorts of different villains.

548
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,100
I'm excited to see what he comes up with in these

549
00:24:24,460 --> 00:24:26,960
these new ventures that it sounds like he's working on.

550
00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:32,200
And I am a little bemused about the fact that he hasn't done more of this

551
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,040
because it was great. He was hilarious.

552
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,440
He was also convincing, like his his inner turmoil and rage

553
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,420
about being like little, you know, like little junior and not living up to dad

554
00:24:43,420 --> 00:24:45,320
and like all that shit. Very believable.

555
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:50,200
And also, yeah, you could sense his villainy. It worked.

556
00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:53,760
But yeah, the film didn't.

557
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,100
I do like watching him like jump up and down, crying while shadowboxing

558
00:24:57,100 --> 00:25:00,200
like a plant. Oh, yeah.

559
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,400
And then when he does when he does for a show, he eats the drunk guy.

560
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,840
Yeah, I was going to say the way he just bug and tossed him

561
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,020
like bodily above him was pretty rad.

562
00:25:10,380 --> 00:25:12,980
I would let Nicholas Cage toss me like that. That'd be cool.

563
00:25:12,980 --> 00:25:19,620
OK, so on the matrix of this whole thing, good movie, good cage, bad movie, bad cage.

564
00:25:19,620 --> 00:25:24,360
Just real power run this bad movie, not great cage.

565
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:26,220
Certainly a bad movie.

566
00:25:26,220 --> 00:25:30,320
It's an boy having not watched it in six months.

567
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,600
A great movie. Great cage.

568
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,160
Perfect. Never a bad cage.

569
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:37,760
Bad movie. Good cage.

570
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,600
Yeah, I agree. He was for sure the highlight.

571
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,100
Yep. I'm with that, too. Yeah.

572
00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:44,940
I think it's a fun performance.

573
00:25:44,940 --> 00:25:49,380
He's weird enough and cage enough in it that it feels kind of special

574
00:25:49,740 --> 00:25:52,520
in like that early time of his career, too.

575
00:25:52,820 --> 00:25:54,960
But yeah, the movie sucks. It's bad.

576
00:25:54,980 --> 00:25:56,460
Maybe it's just sexy to you, though.

577
00:25:56,460 --> 00:25:58,320
Yeah, it might just be the dialogue for me.

578
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,660
Just that like he's given nothing great to say.

579
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:02,900
Yeah, it's true.

580
00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:06,860
The campiness of it at this point has just worn off.

581
00:26:06,860 --> 00:26:09,440
And she's like, this is just bad. Yeah.

582
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,180
Yeah. Yeah. Balls attitude direction.

583
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,540
That's what this movie's got.

584
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:17,880
Now moving in a new direction.

585
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,040
Oh, wait. OK.

586
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,380
Wait, we all had our own fucking ones.

587
00:26:22,020 --> 00:26:23,420
Oh, yeah. Well, we did.

588
00:26:23,420 --> 00:26:24,160
I can't remember.

589
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,180
And I'm not trying to think of mine earlier.

590
00:26:26,180 --> 00:26:28,120
So I was like, I think I had a really good one.

591
00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:29,520
It was. They were good.

592
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,300
They were all they were all good.

593
00:26:31,300 --> 00:26:33,500
Fuck gone forever. Yeah.

594
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,500
OK, I've got one right now. Do it.

595
00:26:35,500 --> 00:26:37,740
Dick. D.I.K.

596
00:26:37,740 --> 00:26:40,040
dignified, intelligent koala.

597
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:44,380
Banger. All right.

598
00:26:44,380 --> 00:26:44,940
Moving on.

599
00:26:44,940 --> 00:26:47,740
Yeah. You need a koala tag now, I think.

600
00:26:49,340 --> 00:26:51,180
Huge ol hog.

601
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,280
Otherwise, people won't get the reference.

602
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:55,320
Right. It's true.

603
00:26:57,120 --> 00:26:59,220
Got to spell it out.

604
00:26:59,620 --> 00:27:02,060
Why does that ugly looking bear have a.

605
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,660
Veiny, aggressive human dick.

606
00:27:05,660 --> 00:27:06,500
Yeah.

607
00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:08,860
Oh, because Santa's a lie.

608
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,000
Leaving Los Angeles.

609
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,840
Leaving this conversation.

610
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,520
Still a really good movie.

611
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:25,280
Boy, I can't tell you how excited I was to have psyched myself up all week

612
00:27:25,660 --> 00:27:30,060
to watch a super depressing movie when I was already tired last night.

613
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,920
It was choice.

614
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,860
It's a really hard movie to get yourself excited to watch.

615
00:27:35,860 --> 00:27:37,000
It's not a fun movie.

616
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:42,700
No, it's a terrific movie, but it is not like something you look forward to all week.

617
00:27:42,700 --> 00:27:47,240
Like I'm not sitting here like, oh, man, I wish I could watch kids tonight

618
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,540
or brick. That sounds like fun.

619
00:27:51,540 --> 00:27:54,620
So if someone were going, if someone asked you, they're wanting to watch it

620
00:27:54,620 --> 00:27:56,280
for the first time, what would you recommend?

621
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,420
How do they set themselves up for success?

622
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,660
Early morning stiff drinks.

623
00:28:00,660 --> 00:28:02,020
So total immersion.

624
00:28:02,020 --> 00:28:04,460
Yeah. Yeah. That's actually pretty good advice.

625
00:28:04,460 --> 00:28:07,760
It's that like bottle of vodka with a kiss of orange juice.

626
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,160
Yeah. Don't put it off.

627
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:10,800
Just go for it.

628
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,000
If you know the premise of the film, that cage is going to drink himself to death

629
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,100
and he's given himself four weeks.

630
00:28:17,100 --> 00:28:22,240
Just the amount of money he has to get through each and every day in Vegas.

631
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:27,480
It's just he's like, I can do like 240, maybe 300 a day in the 90s.

632
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:28,680
Inflation.

633
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,380
Gary read the novel and how much did you say he got as a severance?

634
00:28:33,380 --> 00:28:36,220
It was like something like five thousand dollars or something.

635
00:28:36,460 --> 00:28:38,460
After we lost the last episode,

636
00:28:38,460 --> 00:28:41,700
Gary went and actually got the book and has read it.

637
00:28:41,700 --> 00:28:45,660
And we've gotten some reading sent to us through the process.

638
00:28:46,060 --> 00:28:48,840
And really, I want to kind of talk about the nature of adaptation.

639
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,840
We're not talking about adaptation.

640
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,000
Ever again. We cut that.

641
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,040
I meant at adaptation from book to script.

642
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,620
I know. But we're talking about adaptation again.

643
00:29:00,620 --> 00:29:02,820
It's great. It is great.

644
00:29:02,820 --> 00:29:03,920
I love that movie.

645
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,360
Well, I think it's a great topic because Mike Figgis, the director,

646
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:14,860
made some really bold choices with his adaptation of this story.

647
00:29:14,860 --> 00:29:18,760
And I actually watched an interview, the only one I could find on YouTube

648
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:24,400
from the 90s, some very like traditionally looking like Midwestern

649
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:29,080
Pentecostal lady with like a round haircut is interviewing him.

650
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,080
And that's the only one I could find.

651
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,320
And, you know, he doesn't mention John O'Brien once in his interview,

652
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,280
which I thought was really fascinating.

653
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:44,220
And when you watch the opening credits to the first in the they're not directly

654
00:29:44,220 --> 00:29:49,600
in this order, it's not like the first one is is based on the book by John O'Brien.

655
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,560
But it says based on leaving Las Vegas by John O'Brien.

656
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:58,700
And then the next thing that you see is screenplay by Mike Figgis, which.

657
00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:03,280
Is in a way, truth telling, because I do think that his screenplay

658
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:10,320
kind of usurps the story in some ways that I find a little unnerving.

659
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,760
And I didn't necessarily agree with his choices, but then in ways

660
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,620
that I do think really landed, because.

661
00:30:16,620 --> 00:30:20,520
It's a great film, you know, so it's hard to argue with what he's created

662
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:26,160
as a director, but having read the novel, it falls into that classic trope of,

663
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,300
oh, boy, the book is just so much better.

664
00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:30,440
Mm hmm. How is it just as a read?

665
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:31,540
Does it read well?

666
00:30:31,540 --> 00:30:36,100
I mean, because John O'Brien didn't have a lot of work under his belt.

667
00:30:36,100 --> 00:30:38,780
It looks about as thick as a goosebumps book.

668
00:30:38,780 --> 00:30:44,480
Yeah. So it's so if that's your if that's your general opinion,

669
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:50,060
that's your if that's your general scale on like how much reading you can handle.

670
00:30:50,860 --> 00:30:54,920
It's it's an absolute joy to read it real read super quickly.

671
00:30:55,020 --> 00:30:59,560
So some interesting notes in the book, you start.

672
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,700
So it has an ABC format.

673
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:04,340
Part A is Sarah's backstory.

674
00:31:04,500 --> 00:31:05,600
Part B is Ben's.

675
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,340
And then they meet on page one hundred and twenty four.

676
00:31:09,980 --> 00:31:13,580
And the book is only one hundred and eighty nine pages long,

677
00:31:13,580 --> 00:31:16,580
whereas in the film they meet in the first 20 minutes.

678
00:31:16,580 --> 00:31:19,120
You get kind of Ben's fall from grace.

679
00:31:19,460 --> 00:31:22,700
He's in Vegas and he almost runs Sarah over in the middle of the street.

680
00:31:22,700 --> 00:31:24,760
So huge choice.

681
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:31,700
Another huge choice is in the book, Sarah is gang raped in the first like 10 pages.

682
00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:36,300
And that experience kind of casts a shadow over her whole experience

683
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:42,840
of the story, whereas Figgis tucks it at the very, very end of the entire film.

684
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,080
So I'm curious to hear you guys talk about that.

685
00:31:46,620 --> 00:31:51,060
But let me first just give you a little bit of the pros.

686
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:56,360
This is Ben and Sarah sitting over dinner after they've just met

687
00:31:56,860 --> 00:31:58,960
talking effortlessly at the restaurant.

688
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:03,940
They continue to pursue the tangential conversations that go with new acquaintance.

689
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,840
This acquaintance, however, is maturing faster than most.

690
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,740
Both of them feel an unspoken urgency to their friendship.

691
00:32:11,740 --> 00:32:14,500
Beyond the more obvious time factor that Ben feels,

692
00:32:14,740 --> 00:32:20,280
this impatience is due to an even more immediate need that they share a vacuum

693
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:27,320
long unaddressed in Sarah and always fundamental in Ben is being looked at and considered.

694
00:32:28,020 --> 00:32:32,060
They are recognizing an opportunity to prevent an emotional tragedy.

695
00:32:32,460 --> 00:32:37,560
They are struggling with the bewilderment of finding that a long held assumption may not be so.

696
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,260
They are at once seeing for the first time decisions that they have made

697
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,440
and unexpected options that they may now have.

698
00:32:46,140 --> 00:32:49,580
To Ben, these feelings are apart from what he is doing to himself.

699
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,480
The short term that he is assigned to his own life is having its effect on his mentality

700
00:32:54,740 --> 00:32:56,840
beyond his day to day conduct change.

701
00:32:57,380 --> 00:33:02,680
He believes that dying, dying soon is an unalterable fact of his life

702
00:33:03,020 --> 00:33:05,920
and it's become more deeply rooted in his reality.

703
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,560
He thinks of it no more than anyone else thinks of their own natural death.

704
00:33:10,020 --> 00:33:12,320
He's aware of it, but not obsessed with it.

705
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,600
Subtly though, his actions have taken on added significance to him.

706
00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:21,200
The governors have all been removed and he now looks for the direct and deliberate,

707
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,840
embracing the aggressive and shunning the abusive.

708
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,040
With the specter of the finite looming very near,

709
00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:32,480
Ben can almost envisage this time as a microcosm of his whole life.

710
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,920
A narrow but tall area to be played very intensely.

711
00:33:36,420 --> 00:33:40,120
So a girl is a girlfriend and a girlfriend is everything.

712
00:33:40,620 --> 00:33:44,260
It's the psychology of a 14 year old who is also disinterested

713
00:33:44,260 --> 00:33:46,300
in the not so foreseeable future.

714
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,400
Ben adores Sarah, would like her to be a part of his life,

715
00:33:50,900 --> 00:33:55,180
but changing his life, extending it is no longer an option that would occur to him.

716
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,140
She should accept that context in the same way that he has.

717
00:33:59,140 --> 00:34:03,140
Though it may be wishful, he sees in her the capacity to do this,

718
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,820
and it is what he considers to be her charm.

719
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:08,080
No metaphor in that.

720
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,520
It's just very clinical.

721
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,160
Like he feels this way.

722
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,360
I was going to say it almost reads like the directions for these actors.

723
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,060
Yeah, I was talking about it seems like the thesis for this entire concept.

724
00:34:19,060 --> 00:34:22,400
You know, it's like, oh, OK, you read that and it's like, that's a movie.

725
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:23,660
Yeah, like I got it.

726
00:34:23,660 --> 00:34:25,240
Yeah. Yeah, that.

727
00:34:25,240 --> 00:34:27,140
I was like, oh, OK, I'm going to read that.

728
00:34:27,140 --> 00:34:30,900
Got it. Yeah. Yeah, that the other shit somewhere else.

729
00:34:30,980 --> 00:34:33,740
Yeah. That sentence or line about

730
00:34:34,420 --> 00:34:37,280
the absence of like being looked at and being seen.

731
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:38,040
It's like, oh, wow.

732
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:42,580
It's so like, I'm sure true amongst people in the sex industry,

733
00:34:42,860 --> 00:34:46,720
prostitutes and strippers alike where they're they're looked at,

734
00:34:46,720 --> 00:34:48,620
but they're not like seen and considered.

735
00:34:49,700 --> 00:34:52,360
One of the readings I sent you off, if you if you recall,

736
00:34:53,140 --> 00:34:55,440
several months ago was the scene that

737
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,840
Mike Figgis puts at the beginning of the film where Ben goes to the strip club.

738
00:35:00,140 --> 00:35:04,020
And in the film, he just absolutely destroys a bottle of hard alcohol.

739
00:35:04,220 --> 00:35:05,680
And the music's really loud.

740
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,280
And there's like this old looking pervert sitting next to him.

741
00:35:08,860 --> 00:35:12,820
But in the book, it's this really deep reflection on this very question

742
00:35:12,820 --> 00:35:14,260
that you're bringing up, Nick.

743
00:35:14,260 --> 00:35:18,000
And John O'Brien writes it that what Ben is interested in

744
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,740
is watching a sex worker turn herself on

745
00:35:21,900 --> 00:35:24,960
and the relationship between her and her reflection in the mirror.

746
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,560
Knowing that like she's not getting turned on by any of the weirdos

747
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,260
that are staring at her.

748
00:35:30,260 --> 00:35:33,160
What she's getting turned on by is her relationship with herself

749
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:34,800
and she's doing her work.

750
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,000
And that process, Ben observing that that's the thing he's after

751
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,200
because Ben is really like thinking about it on this deep level.

752
00:35:42,380 --> 00:35:45,780
And I think the reason that John O'Brien is giving Ben's character

753
00:35:45,780 --> 00:35:49,980
such such depth is he's kind of writing his own story.

754
00:35:50,020 --> 00:35:52,960
You know, he drank himself to death.

755
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:57,000
He ended up completing suicide with a firearm, but he had been

756
00:35:57,300 --> 00:35:59,740
killing himself with alcohol for for years.

757
00:35:59,740 --> 00:36:03,280
Beyond that, he actually found out that this was going to be made

758
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,920
into a major motion picture, I think two weeks before he ended up dying.

759
00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:12,680
But yeah, and I think in a lot of ways, this was a world

760
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,860
John O'Brien was familiar with himself.

761
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,460
Your assessment of like how or how you read him

762
00:36:19,460 --> 00:36:23,400
watching the stripper and like turning herself on.

763
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,660
It reminded me initially just of like him

764
00:36:27,700 --> 00:36:31,040
when he was in line at the bank or whatever with his recorder.

765
00:36:31,340 --> 00:36:34,180
And he's just doing that kind of narration

766
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,980
for the teller or something like that.

767
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,520
I'm wondering if that was that bank scene in the book or.

768
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:44,720
It's really I'm glad you brought that up.

769
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:47,460
It's really good that you you you noted that because, yeah,

770
00:36:47,460 --> 00:36:52,060
that was also a really interesting move on Mike Figgis's part. So.

771
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,140
In the film, Ben is standing.

772
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:57,640
So he goes to the bank.

773
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,700
He can't sign his check because he's he's too sober and he's shaking so hard.

774
00:37:01,740 --> 00:37:03,380
DT's. Yeah. Yeah.

775
00:37:03,380 --> 00:37:05,140
So he he leaves.

776
00:37:05,140 --> 00:37:07,420
He gets sauced and then he comes back.

777
00:37:08,340 --> 00:37:10,700
So the second time he's waiting in line and he pulls out a little

778
00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:14,980
pocket recorder and he he he says this thing about you.

779
00:37:14,980 --> 00:37:18,420
You would be so much more interesting and desirable if you were covered in bourbon

780
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,920
and then it gets more and more illicit in the film.

781
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,580
That's all happening in the bank.

782
00:37:24,580 --> 00:37:26,660
And he's speaking it into his recorder.

783
00:37:27,420 --> 00:37:30,360
But in the book, he goes and he signs the check.

784
00:37:30,580 --> 00:37:33,360
Then he goes to a bar and that's all happens in his head.

785
00:37:33,620 --> 00:37:36,500
He doesn't do that as like a public shameful act.

786
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,260
It's like, again, Ben is like a more thoughtful.

787
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,900
He's less belligerent in the book and the film like.

788
00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:47,140
I don't know if that was Cage's decision or if that was it seems like it was Mike

789
00:37:47,140 --> 00:37:51,280
Figgis, his decision to make Ben a little more sloppy, belligerent and less like

790
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,620
kind of a thoughtful, like artistic drunk, you know, if that makes sense.

791
00:37:55,620 --> 00:37:57,520
I feel like he is and he isn't in the film.

792
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:04,920
We don't have the luxury of having a narrator like a narrator of his mind.

793
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:11,000
So we do see a really charming version of him, like when he has a certain amount of

794
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,200
drink and then he has too much to drink.

795
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:19,500
And so we see like those transitions and how far it goes and how dangerous it

796
00:38:19,540 --> 00:38:22,300
really gets all throughout the film.

797
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,980
And Sarah makes note of it at one point, too, where I can't remember the exact

798
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,920
line, but she comes out and says, like, you know, sometimes you open your mouth

799
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,580
and like gold falls out, basically.

800
00:38:33,580 --> 00:38:38,760
Like you do have some eloquence, some ability to talk.

801
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,140
Totally without being a fucking, I don't know, pap smear or something.

802
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,240
And then later when she says she wants him to see a doctor and he responds with.

803
00:38:47,100 --> 00:38:49,840
Oh, no, see, doctor.

804
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,920
One thing that I was curious about, because the only piece of this that I really don't

805
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,220
give a shit about is the whole Yuri subplot.

806
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:01,860
Is that in the book?

807
00:39:02,060 --> 00:39:04,960
OK, yeah. So this is interesting, too.

808
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,300
So in the book, his name is Amal Fatih.

809
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,760
And I gather that he's supposed to be Middle Eastern.

810
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,640
And in the film, he's turned into a Latvian named Yuri.

811
00:39:17,940 --> 00:39:22,280
And in the book, you get a pretty significant piece of Sarah's

812
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,120
backstories wrapped up into her relationship with this guy.

813
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,120
And they used to work together in Los Angeles.

814
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,880
They used to be romantically entangled.

815
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,020
His character has a lot more depth to it.

816
00:39:34,020 --> 00:39:36,360
I don't know why they tried to squeeze it in.

817
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,800
They lost a lot of the complexity of it, and it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

818
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,700
Yeah, this is like, you know, if you had some sort of master cut

819
00:39:43,700 --> 00:39:47,040
that was three hours long, I'm sure there's more that could be plumbed from that.

820
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:52,380
And it just doesn't play in my mind, at least for anything that has value in that.

821
00:39:52,740 --> 00:39:54,180
He's like a guy.

822
00:39:54,180 --> 00:39:56,580
He's in charge of her and then he dies.

823
00:39:56,580 --> 00:39:57,780
And that's it.

824
00:39:57,780 --> 00:40:01,220
Yeah, he doesn't have a very strong presence in the film.

825
00:40:01,220 --> 00:40:05,780
And for a film that's, you know, just under two hours, he could probably

826
00:40:05,780 --> 00:40:09,720
he's a very dismissible, like 10 minutes of it maybe.

827
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:14,760
And it wouldn't it wouldn't be that hard to write around the absence of the character.

828
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:20,040
I think the the strength of having that character as it shows how little control

829
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,400
she had over her relationships in her life.

830
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,840
And then she immediately kind of jumps in this whole thing with Ben,

831
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,380
which she has no control over.

832
00:40:27,380 --> 00:40:31,220
But because he's nice to her, she tries to.

833
00:40:31,220 --> 00:40:38,560
It serves the point of the restructuring of her story in the movie,

834
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:45,200
because it's not until Yuri's gone that her relationship with Johns

835
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:51,200
takes a more dangerous edge to the point where like when she does have the gang rape scene,

836
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,940
she's gone from being like three hundred dollars to get in the door,

837
00:40:55,940 --> 00:41:01,220
five hundred before anything happens to two hundred bucks for an hour

838
00:41:01,220 --> 00:41:04,320
in a room full of three kind of like frat guys.

839
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,460
And it really spirals out of hand because she doesn't have any protections now.

840
00:41:08,460 --> 00:41:12,760
And, you know, obviously not advocating for pimps, but

841
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,560
I mean, somebody's got to have a strong hand in the relationship, right?

842
00:41:19,060 --> 00:41:20,840
So, Rox, I'm kind of curious about this.

843
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:22,100
Like, did you read the book?

844
00:41:22,100 --> 00:41:23,500
No, I didn't. OK.

845
00:41:23,500 --> 00:41:26,700
So you saw the movie and then Gary read the book.

846
00:41:26,700 --> 00:41:30,640
And then how did it change your experience from watching it another time

847
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,580
after talking to him and experiencing him knowing more about it?

848
00:41:34,580 --> 00:41:39,280
Hmm. Well, to be to be fair, I didn't rewatch it today with Rob, actually.

849
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,860
I did do some research on Sheryl Crow.

850
00:41:41,860 --> 00:41:43,920
Tell me more. Yeah.

851
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:48,500
So if you like me, I do like you.

852
00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:51,100
It's been really nice. You're great.

853
00:41:51,100 --> 00:41:54,360
Come back again. Yeah. That really means a lot to me.

854
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,500
I know all of the rapaports out there.

855
00:41:56,500 --> 00:41:58,700
No, Michael can't come on. Sorry.

856
00:41:58,700 --> 00:42:01,400
Oh, yeah. Talk about Cheryl C.

857
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,980
It's that cat that looks like grandma.

858
00:42:03,980 --> 00:42:07,340
I'm a fucking weird looking cat again.

859
00:42:07,340 --> 00:42:10,880
You guys have seen a cow with a human face.

860
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,180
Terrifying. I have. It's a weird.

861
00:42:13,180 --> 00:42:15,820
It's like Renaissance paintings. Yeah.

862
00:42:15,820 --> 00:42:18,420
Sorry, please continue.

863
00:42:18,420 --> 00:42:19,420
Well, OK.

864
00:42:19,420 --> 00:42:23,860
So when Rob let me know that we were invited to do this podcast with you guys

865
00:42:23,860 --> 00:42:26,600
back in last year, I guess.

866
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:33,240
My the first thing I said was, is leaving Las Vegas about the Sheryl Crow song?

867
00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:38,080
Oh, yes. Does it mean that I'm going to get to watch this or listen to the Sheryl Crow song

868
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,980
was my first question. And we laughed it off.

869
00:42:41,980 --> 00:42:45,820
And I interpreted that to mean that, no, that you have nothing to do with each other.

870
00:42:45,820 --> 00:42:47,780
But in fact, I did some research today.

871
00:42:47,780 --> 00:42:49,620
And there is a connection.

872
00:42:49,620 --> 00:42:55,700
Sheryl Crow wrote her first her debut album Tuesday Night Music Club,

873
00:42:55,700 --> 00:43:01,460
which if you haven't given it a listen now or in a while, it's really it's pretty great.

874
00:43:01,460 --> 00:43:04,600
It's very listenable. It's got some really good stuff on there.

875
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:11,840
She debuted that album in 1994 and appeared on David Letterman's show three weeks

876
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,380
before John O'Brien completed suicide.

877
00:43:15,380 --> 00:43:18,020
With the song Leaving Las Vegas.

878
00:43:18,020 --> 00:43:25,820
And the song was written by her and another guy who is a part of a group of musicians in L.A.

879
00:43:25,820 --> 00:43:28,720
that called themselves the Tuesday Night Music Club.

880
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:33,860
The guy that she wrote the song with was actually supposedly a friend or acquaintance

881
00:43:33,860 --> 00:43:35,560
of John O'Brien.

882
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:40,800
And he kind of borrowed from the not really the story, but more like the imagery of the book

883
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:47,240
and how in his contributions to that song and just interject, I think that goes to show that

884
00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:50,880
there's just such a tragedy here in the story of John O'Brien.

885
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:56,580
I think he was really, really talented and was starting to make inroads in Hollywood,

886
00:43:56,580 --> 00:44:01,720
starting to meet people, starting to get in and could have maybe had a break, you know,

887
00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:05,320
beyond just this novel and the Rugrats episode.

888
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:06,360
We will get to.

889
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:07,760
Yeah, there was more.

890
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,360
Unfortunately, there was so much more we could have gotten from this man.

891
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:12,360
Yeah.

892
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:19,340
So David Bearwald was the guy's name who co-wrote Leaving Las Vegas with Sheryl Crow.

893
00:44:19,340 --> 00:44:23,540
And I guess there was kind of a moment that happened after.

894
00:44:23,540 --> 00:44:25,440
So Sheryl Crow was on David Letterman.

895
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,880
She was interviewed about the song and asked if it was autobiographical.

896
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,680
And she gave kind of a mixed answer where she said, like, kind of.

897
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:34,680
I didn't.

898
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:35,680
I had no idea.

899
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,160
I didn't I have nothing to do with Las Vegas.

900
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,860
I was sort of writing it about L.A.

901
00:44:42,860 --> 00:44:50,920
And I guess there was at the at the time after John O'Brien's death, there was some outcry.

902
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:55,880
People like rewatch that interview and said, oh, he decided to kill himself because Sheryl

903
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:56,880
Crow didn't give him credit.

904
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:58,400
He was really pissed off about it.

905
00:44:58,400 --> 00:44:59,840
And I guess there was some truth to that.

906
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,040
He was very upset, but it seems pretty clear.

907
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:04,920
And his sister has made a statement.

908
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:09,400
John O'Brien's sister made a statement about how there's not a direct causal link between

909
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,600
Sheryl Crow and her brother's death.

910
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,880
Also this guy, David Bearwell, he kind of sounds like an ass.

911
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:20,080
He was he like kind of threw Sheryl Crow under the bus for that, even though he is the one

912
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,240
who who wrote the title of the song.

913
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:25,320
And yeah, it was just really interesting to me because I did.

914
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:30,720
I kind of popped in on Rob watching the film again today and just thinking about this connection

915
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:36,120
of like the everything the L.A. scene represents, which not that I know anything about that

916
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:42,520
personally, mostly just through watching Selling Sunset on Netflix.

917
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:48,760
But yeah, just this this like the I get the sense that John O'Brien was it had a really

918
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,000
ambivalent relationship with success.

919
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,840
Like he was clearly a really driven artist.

920
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:56,600
Like he had a lot in him.

921
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,340
He wanted to create and get out into the world.

922
00:46:00,340 --> 00:46:04,320
And he seemed it seems like there's several stories that kind of show the way that he

923
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:10,040
was like really upset when things didn't go as he would have wanted in his creative vision.

924
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,000
It was really like he took it very personally.

925
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:19,080
Well, like his one credit is an episode of Rugrats Toys in the Attic, which from what

926
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:25,200
I read on the Internet was kind of a gimme job given to him by his sister.

927
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,680
From what I understand, he was really upset with some of the changes they made to the

928
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:35,200
script for what ultimately was an eight minute episode about Tommy Pickles and Angelica spending

929
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:40,280
the weekend at Tommy's grandparents house and going into the attic to find some toys

930
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:46,440
because deeper than that man like Nazi memorabilia, Angelica convinces Tommy that there's a ghost

931
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:47,960
in the attic, so he doesn't want to go.

932
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:49,520
But she knows there's toys up there.

933
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,040
And she's like, I'm the one who told you there were ghost dummy.

934
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:56,440
And then the grandpa comes and like a window opens and a sheet blows over the grandpa.

935
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:00,120
So they think he's a ghost, but there's like there's no substance to it.

936
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:01,400
It's it's Rugrats.

937
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:02,400
I would be.

938
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:03,400
Yeah.

939
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:07,680
I mean, I cannot imagine getting too upset about my writing getting fucked up for a kids

940
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:08,680
show.

941
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,040
But it was all you have in that kids show.

942
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,440
I mean, so you're saying how, you know, we could have probably got a lot more work from

943
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:15,880
this guy if he survived.

944
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:22,400
And I don't know that we would have at least in any large scale professional sense, because

945
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,120
especially when you're working within a studio system, you can't be that precious with your

946
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:27,480
own work.

947
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:32,040
And to continue to get work, you need the way we talked about in art school is you need

948
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,040
two of three things.

949
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:38,760
You need to be the best, easy to work with or always on time.

950
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:40,560
You could be easy to work with and always on time.

951
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:41,560
You'll always have a job.

952
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,040
You could be the best and an asshole, but you always show up.

953
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:46,040
You'll always have a job.

954
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:47,480
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.

955
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:52,100
And I think he would have been absolutely furious with some of the choices that Mike

956
00:47:52,100 --> 00:47:54,600
Figgis made with leaving Las Vegas.

957
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,480
If he was upset about Rugrats.

958
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:00,960
And I read a quote that his sister, Erin, said she thought the changes to his writing

959
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:07,600
were totally justified, like that, like completely made sense because it's a kid's show.

960
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:11,560
Tommy Pickles can't die at the end.

961
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:15,200
I kind of want to tie a bow on the Sheryl Crow thing for a minute.

962
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:20,520
What I found myself thinking about was the sort of the way that as Sheryl Crow's star

963
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:25,480
was rising, John O'Brien's was setting and just the sort of what were the qualities that

964
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:30,080
like sort of would set two people like this apart, these two paths that kind of crossed

965
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,320
and then passed each other in this weird way.

966
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:34,320
I mean, I don't know.

967
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:39,600
I'm not trying to like I don't know a core reason why, but I think it's interesting

968
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:40,600
to look at the way that.

969
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:41,600
Yeah, I don't know.

970
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:46,000
It feels like inappropriate in some ways to abstract this because John O'Brien, at the

971
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:51,840
end of the day, was just he was a human being and he died in a really traumatic way.

972
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,680
And Sheryl Crow, also a human being doing her thing.

973
00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:01,360
But if we can kind of like look at them as these two sort of archetypes or kind of see

974
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:06,880
them as some things larger than themselves, I think I see John O'Brien as a person who

975
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:12,800
yeah, like clearly his whole life, it seems like was just really, really, really in struggle,

976
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:19,080
like never was a person who really was not at peace for his whole life and like just

977
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:25,280
internalized so much and was just wrestling with so much all the time and created clearly

978
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,440
some really powerful art out of that place.

979
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:33,280
Sheryl Crow, a person who I mean, she got her start as a backup singer for Michael Jackson

980
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,760
and endured in that setting.

981
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:40,760
Like I watched an interview with her today where she talked about sexual abuse or sexual

982
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:46,520
harassment that she experienced in, you know, in that kind of life and clearly had like

983
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:52,080
she was a person who was able to deal with some pretty shitty life stuff and like find

984
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:53,080
a way through it.

985
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,480
Like she yeah, this is why trauma is trauma.

986
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,200
It's a it's a perceptual experience.

987
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,240
It's like what it's not the event itself.

988
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:04,680
It's what people make of it, you know, and I think that I'm not trying to compare their

989
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:10,520
like backstories at all, but just more this idea of like, yeah, that some people are cut

990
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:15,200
out for this L.A. lifestyle thing and other people seem like they are going to struggle

991
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:16,200
a lot more.

992
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:17,200
And it's really sad.

993
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:18,200
That's good, though.

994
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:26,240
I had heard some of the Sheryl Crow stuff before, but I didn't get super deep into it.

995
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:28,520
It's interesting to hear.

996
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:34,560
It's so crazy that this can be a book, a movie and influence a song like that doesn't happen

997
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:35,560
too often.

998
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:36,960
It's almost egotting itself.

999
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:37,960
Yeah.

1000
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,880
So it just needs a Tony Award winning play, right?

1001
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:46,160
Where Nicholas Cage played by Daniel Radcliffe.

1002
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:47,640
Oh, that's good.

1003
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:51,400
Actually, would just drink himself to death with a naked horse.

1004
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:56,640
Yeah, I think it would translate to this stage in that way, because the dynamic between Ben

1005
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,120
and Sarah is so juicy.

1006
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:03,160
Like oh, and it's rife with good soliloquies and monologues.

1007
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:04,160
Absolutely.

1008
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:05,160
Yeah, for sure.

1009
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:10,920
What would that what would the big toe tapping single be going for Tony?

1010
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:12,720
So it's a musical.

1011
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:16,800
Yeah, it's got to be.

1012
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,680
The hook is definitely like the shopping for all the booze.

1013
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:21,040
Yeah, yeah.

1014
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,200
It's a see my best kind of a situation.

1015
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:24,480
Oh, my God.

1016
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:28,520
No, it's they still use that fucking sting song.

1017
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:32,560
So I'm glad you brought that up, because I was thinking the funniest thing that I remember

1018
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,840
from that episode that we lost is that we were talking so much about like staying and

1019
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:37,840
edging.

1020
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:38,840
Oh, yeah.

1021
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:42,720
And then I remember anything else other than that.

1022
00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:46,520
Well, I said it's really a shame that Sting and the Edge have the names they have.

1023
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:47,520
They should switch.

1024
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:48,520
Definitely switch.

1025
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:53,040
Maybe they will eventually, but they're keeping us hanging.

1026
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,680
They're edging us on.

1027
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:57,960
It's a beautiful film.

1028
00:51:57,960 --> 00:51:59,200
It still holds up great.

1029
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,000
The performances are awesome.

1030
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,960
I still think it's weird how the movie ends with like the sitcom style credits where you

1031
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,200
just see Ben like smiling at the camera.

1032
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:13,720
Yeah, the last minute or so after like first, I was like, oh, my God, she gives killer hand

1033
00:52:13,720 --> 00:52:14,720
jobs.

1034
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:19,200
And then I was like, oh, wait, no, that joke doesn't work because she fucks him sad.

1035
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:24,480
And then like, I'm like, OK, well, he died having sex, and that's pretty cool.

1036
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,080
And then he wasn't dead.

1037
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,560
And it was a weird roller coaster for me.

1038
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:30,760
Just reliving this.

1039
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:31,880
Yeah.

1040
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:36,080
And then finally, the credits roll and like I listen to that Sting song one more time.

1041
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,920
And then you came.

1042
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,280
Oh, you do a great Sting impression.

1043
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,480
I never knew you had one in the in the tank there in the chamber.

1044
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:46,480
Yeah.

1045
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:47,480
Ready to roll.

1046
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,040
Oh, Sting, always one in the chamber forever.

1047
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:52,040
One in the chamber.

1048
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:53,040
All right.

1049
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:56,400
We got back to where I wanted to be.

1050
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:57,400
I agree.

1051
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,720
I think it's a incredible movie.

1052
00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:06,600
And like Nicolas Cage's transformation, just even throughout the movie, like ups and downs,

1053
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:11,680
the physicality of his drunkenness is so incredible.

1054
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:17,920
Like I never look at the film and think like that's somebody acting drunk, pretending to

1055
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:19,640
be drunk or putting on a show.

1056
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:23,000
This is like that's a drunk dude.

1057
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:27,480
He's drunk in some level.

1058
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:33,120
And I mean, it's it's both like upsetting to watch in like the hardest moments.

1059
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:34,120
It's entertaining.

1060
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:38,960
Well, I think one of the reasons this movie works as well as it does is because of his

1061
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:45,160
performance and how much you genuinely tend to like Ben, despite what he's doing is horrible.

1062
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:51,440
You hope that somehow by the end, he'll be brought out of it by Sarah or something like

1063
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,480
you want that for him, even though you know it's not going to happen.

1064
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:55,480
Yeah, I know.

1065
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,680
I mean, I think it's a good thing that he's standing up for him and be like, well, he's

1066
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:04,840
not hurting anybody else, but like, obviously, yes, he hurt Sarah a lot throughout the film.

1067
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,880
But ultimately, like he was doing this before she was there, too.

1068
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:09,880
Yeah.

1069
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:13,640
So well, something that's coming up for me right now is thinking about the way that I

1070
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:24,440
think Sarah represents for me, John O'Brien's attempt to question his own motives in because

1071
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:28,020
it was like kind of a slow motion suicide.

1072
00:54:28,020 --> 00:54:32,340
And then he finally decided he was just going to end the whole thing with a gun rather than

1073
00:54:32,340 --> 00:54:34,880
continuing to do alcohol.

1074
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:40,620
But Sarah represents this like will to live in spite of it, because you might look at

1075
00:54:40,620 --> 00:54:44,240
Sarah and be like, what does she have to live for?

1076
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:47,960
She's got this shit bag pimp that beats her and cuts her.

1077
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,280
She hangs out in Las Vegas.

1078
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:57,280
She gets raped by these piece of shit, teenager football players.

1079
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,960
She even falls in love with a guy who has no will to live.

1080
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:05,280
Like what does why does Sarah want to continue going on?

1081
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:13,880
And I think she represents a character that shows resilience in spite of her circumstances.

1082
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,600
Whereas you look at a guy like Ben, he's got everything.

1083
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:19,720
He's got a fancy life in L.A.

1084
00:55:19,720 --> 00:55:21,240
He's got a wife and a kid.

1085
00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:25,480
He's got a successful career and he just pisses it all away.

1086
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:27,000
And it just doesn't make sense.

1087
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:33,340
And I think John O'Brien with the interplay between these two characters is trying to

1088
00:55:33,340 --> 00:55:39,320
ask the question, maybe to your point, Rox, about Sheryl Crow and John O'Brien.

1089
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:45,480
What allows some people to thrive in spite of the shit that they find themselves in,

1090
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:51,760
where other people fall into states of depression and addiction and suicidality?

1091
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:56,360
In a way, Ben is the more likable character.

1092
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,560
There is something about him that you're really rooting for him.

1093
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:04,280
Where I found myself relating to Sarah with a lot of ambivalence.

1094
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:05,280
You know what I mean?

1095
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,480
Like I didn't really feel like I was rooting for her to get her life together.

1096
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:10,160
Like what is she even about?

1097
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:12,800
Like there's nothing very deliberate about her.

1098
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:16,480
Like what is she trying to do with her life?

1099
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:21,000
And in her therapy sessions, those cutaway scenes in therapy, those are some of the more

1100
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:24,400
revealing passages from the film.

1101
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:28,160
All she's doing is like talking about Ben, talking about her relationship with Ben.

1102
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:29,760
Like where is Sarah?

1103
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:31,160
What is driving Sarah on?

1104
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,040
What is the thing that is why does she want to live?

1105
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:35,660
What's continuing to drive her on?

1106
00:56:35,660 --> 00:56:40,720
So anyhow, all of those questions land really strongly in the book.

1107
00:56:40,720 --> 00:56:46,520
And I do think they were adapted to film well enough by Mike Figgis and his team that it's

1108
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:49,320
a very profound film.

1109
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,360
Super glad to have watched it and read this book.

1110
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:57,280
Well, to that last point that you just made, Rob, I think something that does stand out

1111
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:03,080
to me is that and I just yeah, as a just to be clear about where I'm coming from when

1112
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:09,780
I say this is as a person who definitely tends towards like hyper focusing on my own internal

1113
00:57:09,780 --> 00:57:16,400
experience to the point that I can I know that I can get lost and lose out on remembering

1114
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:20,280
that other people are actually having their own lives and their own experiences and thoughts.

1115
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:28,720
And I think that's kind of core to the experience of depression and of suicidality is this inability

1116
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:29,840
to think beyond that.

1117
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:33,080
It's this tunnel vision that gets created.

1118
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:38,320
So I think that if there's a question around like what is going on for Sarah, then I see

1119
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:44,040
that as in a way of representative of that, the mind frame of a character like Ben or

1120
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:51,800
of perhaps a person like John O'Brien when you're in the real depths of that kind of

1121
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:57,760
experience of pain to get nerdy for a second.

1122
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:01,280
Something that I thought a lot about while watching the movie and while talking to you,

1123
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:05,480
Rob, about the about John O'Brien and the book was kind of thinking about this through

1124
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:12,760
the lens of a model that's like used a lot in addiction, like substance use treatment

1125
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:18,240
in terms of in counseling and social work, which is this stages of change model.

1126
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:23,440
It's the idea that there's they're kind of identifying like five stages that people tend

1127
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,440
to go through and they're not linear.

1128
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:30,960
It's like you kind of loop back around a lot of times or go back and forth between multiple

1129
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:37,440
from pre contemplation to contemplation, preparation, action and maintenance.

1130
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:42,620
And I feel like where this film really lives and the book to presumably is in the contemplation

1131
00:58:42,620 --> 00:58:44,760
phase, which is defined by ambivalence.

1132
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:48,240
It's the sense of like, OK, I'm conscious that there's something in my life that's not

1133
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:54,500
working and I can see how things could be different, but I also don't want them to be

1134
00:58:54,500 --> 00:58:58,740
different because change is scary and it's too much.

1135
00:58:58,740 --> 00:59:05,080
And I think that the only I think that to create a work like this represents on some

1136
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:12,960
level like a will to live like you don't make things unless you are still of the world,

1137
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:17,980
you know, unless you believe that things are worthy of being made.

1138
00:59:17,980 --> 00:59:22,900
And so and I see that in Ben's relationship with Sarah, that there is a part of him that

1139
00:59:22,900 --> 00:59:27,680
wants this, that wants to be loved, that wants this connection.

1140
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:34,700
And then there's also a part of him that is very settled in this plan that that's not

1141
00:59:34,700 --> 00:59:36,300
going to happen.

1142
00:59:36,300 --> 00:59:43,300
And so, yeah, I think that's why this is so tragic is like that it really put as the viewer

1143
00:59:43,300 --> 00:59:48,280
or the reader, you're really kind of like in the depths of that ambivalence, which is

1144
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,280
just so painful.

1145
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:56,900
And to see the way that that can go the direction of like you don't get to the next stage.

1146
00:59:56,900 --> 00:59:58,820
That is where it ends for some people.

1147
00:59:58,820 --> 01:00:02,220
Yeah, that's a tie in Cheryl Crow one last time.

1148
01:00:02,220 --> 01:00:08,380
I think it puts a really intense it made me think about I was reading lyrics to the song

1149
01:00:08,380 --> 01:00:12,460
leaving Las Vegas, which, like I said, I think we're really kind of inspired more by the

1150
01:00:12,460 --> 01:00:16,580
vibes of Las Vegas than the story itself.

1151
01:00:16,580 --> 01:00:18,260
Have you ever watched the music video?

1152
01:00:18,260 --> 01:00:19,860
No, I haven't.

1153
01:00:19,860 --> 01:00:21,940
How would you describe it?

1154
01:00:21,940 --> 01:00:30,020
If I remember correctly, it's a lot of like her playing a guitar in the desert and shots

1155
01:00:30,020 --> 01:00:35,980
of like the entering Las Vegas sign and things like that.

1156
01:00:35,980 --> 01:00:38,060
It wasn't much to speak of.

1157
01:00:38,060 --> 01:00:45,060
It's just kind of like a weird music video for the whole subject.

1158
01:00:45,060 --> 01:00:46,060
It's really interesting.

1159
01:00:46,060 --> 01:00:50,700
It's dawning on me now how interesting it is that Las Vegas is the backdrop for this,

1160
01:00:50,700 --> 01:00:56,380
and what you're saying, Roxanne, about the fact that Ben and Sarah both it's like they

1161
01:00:56,380 --> 01:00:57,380
they struggle.

1162
01:00:57,380 --> 01:01:04,180
They both struggle from a lot of entropy where like they're having a really hard time making

1163
01:01:04,180 --> 01:01:09,620
any changes for the good, where that's like the whole draw of Las Vegas.

1164
01:01:09,620 --> 01:01:12,340
You go there so you can like get rich quick.

1165
01:01:12,340 --> 01:01:17,900
You can make a big positive change for your life quickly and really.

1166
01:01:17,900 --> 01:01:18,900
Yeah.

1167
01:01:18,900 --> 01:01:19,900
Right.

1168
01:01:19,900 --> 01:01:21,260
And then everything happens for yourself.

1169
01:01:21,260 --> 01:01:26,700
Or even if you don't get rich, you like have a huge like pleasurable experience.

1170
01:01:26,700 --> 01:01:31,420
You go and indulge like it's it's a place of immediacy.

1171
01:01:31,420 --> 01:01:38,140
Whereas what you're pointing out is we we meet two characters struggling to move beyond

1172
01:01:38,140 --> 01:01:40,740
like their their their stability.

1173
01:01:40,740 --> 01:01:41,740
Yeah.

1174
01:01:41,740 --> 01:01:45,860
This idea that they're they're kind of two ways to leave Las Vegas.

1175
01:01:45,860 --> 01:01:50,340
You're either you're Sheryl Crow and you you know, you're this this the story of you're

1176
01:01:50,340 --> 01:01:54,900
leaving in the sense that you are putting it behind you or you're leaving in the John

1177
01:01:54,900 --> 01:01:55,900
O'Brien sense.

1178
01:01:55,900 --> 01:01:59,660
You know, that's your your final act.

1179
01:01:59,660 --> 01:02:01,100
Your exit stage left.

1180
01:02:01,100 --> 01:02:05,740
And the line that I keep coming back to in the song is such a muddy line between the

1181
01:02:05,740 --> 01:02:09,620
things you want and the things you have to do.

1182
01:02:09,620 --> 01:02:14,580
And you know, if you read that through an addiction lens, I think that.

1183
01:02:14,580 --> 01:02:22,900
Yeah, it's really powerful to think about the the drive for for pleasure, for escape,

1184
01:02:22,900 --> 01:02:26,300
which is really like essential, I think, and healthy.

1185
01:02:26,300 --> 01:02:33,100
And then, yeah, that where is the line between when that becomes something that is this self

1186
01:02:33,100 --> 01:02:38,260
destructive cycle to a really tragic end?

1187
01:02:38,260 --> 01:02:39,260
Still a great film.

1188
01:02:39,260 --> 01:02:45,300
Again, a hard film, but a great, powerful film and an amazing performance by Nick Cage.

1189
01:02:45,300 --> 01:02:47,740
There's a reason he has an Oscar because of this.

1190
01:02:47,740 --> 01:02:51,220
Yeah, very, very much deserve the praise that he got.

1191
01:02:51,220 --> 01:02:54,980
Yeah, nothing but love for this all the way around.

1192
01:02:54,980 --> 01:02:55,980
Good movie.

1193
01:02:55,980 --> 01:02:56,980
Good cage.

1194
01:02:56,980 --> 01:02:57,980
Great orange shirt.

1195
01:02:57,980 --> 01:02:58,980
It's true.

1196
01:02:58,980 --> 01:03:01,980
Is it orange or is it like salmon?

1197
01:03:01,980 --> 01:03:03,020
It struck me as salmon.

1198
01:03:03,020 --> 01:03:06,460
It's very orange in that picture, which I'm very familiar with because I see what you're

1199
01:03:06,460 --> 01:03:07,460
saying.

1200
01:03:07,460 --> 01:03:08,460
No, I think that's more of a salmon.

1201
01:03:08,460 --> 01:03:10,420
Oh, give us a dick joke, Nick.

1202
01:03:10,420 --> 01:03:12,480
Let's bring the party back up.

1203
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:13,480
Oh, bring it up.

1204
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:14,480
Dick jokes on command.

1205
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:15,480
God, this is hard.

1206
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:16,480
Give us another dick acronym.

1207
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,260
You know, I'll come up with something that was just added.

1208
01:03:18,260 --> 01:03:19,260
Yeah, put it in post.

1209
01:03:19,260 --> 01:03:20,260
OK, so what movie goes forward?

1210
01:03:20,260 --> 01:03:21,980
Obviously, we already decided this, but let's just put it officially.

1211
01:03:21,980 --> 01:03:22,980
Absolutely.

1212
01:03:22,980 --> 01:03:23,980
Leaving Las Vegas, man.

1213
01:03:23,980 --> 01:03:24,980
This is.

1214
01:03:24,980 --> 01:03:26,320
I mean, it's a very, very good movie.

1215
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:27,700
I mean, it's a great movie.

1216
01:03:27,700 --> 01:03:28,700
It's a great movie.

1217
01:03:28,700 --> 01:03:29,700
It's a great movie.

1218
01:03:29,700 --> 01:03:31,100
I mean, it's a very, very good movie.

1219
01:03:31,100 --> 01:03:33,740
but let's just put it officially.

1220
01:03:33,740 --> 01:03:35,740
Absolutely.

1221
01:03:35,740 --> 01:03:38,140
Leaving Las Vegas, man, this is...

1222
01:03:40,140 --> 01:03:44,140
I look forward to the day when we watch a movie

1223
01:03:44,140 --> 01:03:49,140
that I can just say is more deserving of going on than this

1224
01:03:50,140 --> 01:03:51,260
in a head-to-head.

1225
01:03:52,380 --> 01:03:54,660
What are you guys doing with new cage movies

1226
01:03:54,660 --> 01:03:55,500
that are coming out?

1227
01:03:55,500 --> 01:03:57,700
We watch them, we talk about them.

1228
01:03:57,700 --> 01:03:59,060
I think at some point we'll discuss them.

1229
01:03:59,060 --> 01:04:02,180
We're more enthusiastic about it than Sean makes it sound.

1230
01:04:02,180 --> 01:04:05,420
We go there, we go to the theater, we see the films

1231
01:04:05,420 --> 01:04:06,860
and we put out an episode.

1232
01:04:06,860 --> 01:04:08,380
We try to do it within a week

1233
01:04:09,340 --> 01:04:11,940
or within the week of it opening.

1234
01:04:11,940 --> 01:04:13,740
I think eventually I wanna do a thing

1235
01:04:13,740 --> 01:04:15,620
where we kind of discuss the movies that have come out

1236
01:04:15,620 --> 01:04:18,140
or didn't make the bracket and be like,

1237
01:04:18,140 --> 01:04:20,460
oh, where do we think this could have fit in?

1238
01:04:20,460 --> 01:04:21,820
Yeah, where would it fit in just a general...

1239
01:04:21,820 --> 01:04:23,260
The ghost bracket.

1240
01:04:23,260 --> 01:04:25,700
Watching all the movies that he's been in.

1241
01:04:25,700 --> 01:04:28,620
There's so many movies that just have Nick Cage.

1242
01:04:28,620 --> 01:04:30,860
We'll just do some masculine and a tent

1243
01:04:30,860 --> 01:04:34,420
and talk about Nicholas Cage, like what could have been, man?

1244
01:04:34,420 --> 01:04:37,460
It's like, what deserved a role in this?

1245
01:04:37,460 --> 01:04:40,180
You could be 200 hours of audio to edit.

1246
01:04:41,100 --> 01:04:42,780
Pass me that wooden duck.

1247
01:04:45,100 --> 01:04:45,940
I was thinking about...

1248
01:04:45,940 --> 01:04:48,340
But I don't think none of it got recorded

1249
01:04:48,340 --> 01:04:49,940
because we were fucking high.

1250
01:04:49,940 --> 01:04:52,140
God, again.

1251
01:04:52,140 --> 01:04:56,340
I was just thinking about how much time you guys have spent

1252
01:04:56,340 --> 01:05:01,340
on this podcast so far and for there still to be a matchup,

1253
01:05:01,380 --> 01:05:05,300
this poorly weighted, it's so clearly...

1254
01:05:05,300 --> 01:05:06,420
This is only the second round.

1255
01:05:06,420 --> 01:05:08,020
Yeah, how are you gonna do?

1256
01:05:08,020 --> 01:05:09,580
When is it gonna get interesting?

1257
01:05:09,580 --> 01:05:12,580
This is clearly an overmatch, right?

1258
01:05:12,580 --> 01:05:14,260
I'm sorry you don't like our podcast.

1259
01:05:14,260 --> 01:05:16,060
No, I'm applauding you.

1260
01:05:16,060 --> 01:05:18,100
I'm saying you guys are going so slow

1261
01:05:18,100 --> 01:05:20,460
and taking your time and really getting into the material

1262
01:05:20,460 --> 01:05:23,620
that even this far in, you still have a matchup like this.

1263
01:05:23,620 --> 01:05:25,700
What is the test of death go up against first?

1264
01:05:25,700 --> 01:05:26,540
Oh, God.

1265
01:05:26,540 --> 01:05:27,740
It's something twice as bad.

1266
01:05:27,740 --> 01:05:31,020
It's probably like City of Angels or some shit.

1267
01:05:31,020 --> 01:05:32,500
Yeah, you guys hated that.

1268
01:05:32,500 --> 01:05:34,260
City of Angels was a terrible movie.

1269
01:05:34,260 --> 01:05:35,380
That can get fucked.

1270
01:05:35,380 --> 01:05:37,420
I told you my ex-wife loved it.

1271
01:05:37,420 --> 01:05:40,180
We talked about that in the last episode.

1272
01:05:40,180 --> 01:05:41,700
Your ex-wife is wrong.

1273
01:05:41,700 --> 01:05:44,140
That might be the reason your laptop got stolen

1274
01:05:44,140 --> 01:05:45,340
because that marriage was doomed

1275
01:05:45,340 --> 01:05:48,820
and then it just somehow transferred its doom energy

1276
01:05:48,820 --> 01:05:49,660
onto your laptop.

1277
01:05:49,660 --> 01:05:50,500
I'm sorry.

1278
01:05:50,500 --> 01:05:51,500
I owe you money.

1279
01:05:51,500 --> 01:05:54,140
Leaving Las Vegas goes up against Joe next time.

1280
01:05:54,140 --> 01:05:54,980
Ooh.

1281
01:05:54,980 --> 01:05:55,820
That's a good matchup.

1282
01:05:55,820 --> 01:05:57,060
That's a good conversation.

1283
01:05:57,060 --> 01:05:58,700
That's a depressing weekend.

1284
01:05:58,700 --> 01:06:00,140
It's a very depressing weekend.

1285
01:06:00,140 --> 01:06:03,420
I don't, mm, I need more alcohol.

1286
01:06:04,340 --> 01:06:05,180
What was the other question?

1287
01:06:05,180 --> 01:06:06,220
Why did I bring this up?

1288
01:06:06,220 --> 01:06:09,780
What did Kiss of Death go up against?

1289
01:06:10,660 --> 01:06:12,580
Yeah, how did it make it to City of Angels?

1290
01:06:12,580 --> 01:06:13,420
Yeah, okay.

1291
01:06:15,060 --> 01:06:16,340
City of Angels is dog shit.

1292
01:06:16,340 --> 01:06:17,380
Yeah. It's so bad.

1293
01:06:17,380 --> 01:06:18,780
Yeah, this is one that just squeaked by

1294
01:06:18,780 --> 01:06:20,940
because the competition was so poor.

1295
01:06:20,940 --> 01:06:21,860
Yeah.

1296
01:06:21,860 --> 01:06:23,700
Yeah, it was bound to happen once or twice.

1297
01:06:23,700 --> 01:06:25,860
The challenge of this fucking concept that we have,

1298
01:06:25,860 --> 01:06:27,660
it's like it takes forever

1299
01:06:27,660 --> 01:06:30,060
and there's so many bad movies in the mix

1300
01:06:30,060 --> 01:06:31,060
and we're whittling it down

1301
01:06:31,060 --> 01:06:34,940
and the Slicksteen is way better than the Round of 32.

1302
01:06:34,940 --> 01:06:36,660
Wicker Man's still going strong.

1303
01:06:36,660 --> 01:06:38,060
Yeah, baby, as it should be.

1304
01:06:38,060 --> 01:06:39,380
So is Army of One.

1305
01:06:39,380 --> 01:06:40,220
As it should be.

1306
01:06:40,220 --> 01:06:41,660
I've come around on that one.

1307
01:06:41,660 --> 01:06:43,780
I fucking love Army of One, man.

1308
01:06:43,780 --> 01:06:44,620
Man!

1309
01:06:46,860 --> 01:06:49,820
I'm amazed you guys didn't blow my fucking levels on that.

1310
01:06:49,820 --> 01:06:52,420
Well, I did Chocolate Rain away from the mic.

1311
01:06:52,420 --> 01:06:53,260
Yeah, that's true.

1312
01:06:53,260 --> 01:06:54,620
Thank you. I appreciate that.

1313
01:06:54,620 --> 01:06:55,460
Breathe away.

1314
01:06:55,460 --> 01:06:56,300
Yeah.

1315
01:06:58,220 --> 01:07:00,660
Can I make a suggestion for a thing you guys can do

1316
01:07:00,660 --> 01:07:02,460
for your Patreon to make some money?

1317
01:07:02,460 --> 01:07:03,300
Yes.

1318
01:07:03,300 --> 01:07:05,300
We love making money.

1319
01:07:05,300 --> 01:07:06,340
Well, we love the concept.

1320
01:07:06,340 --> 01:07:07,380
We haven't tried it yet.

1321
01:07:07,380 --> 01:07:10,220
I have not been able to stop thinking about the moment

1322
01:07:10,220 --> 01:07:11,940
in between worlds where

1323
01:07:11,940 --> 01:07:15,060
the cage reached out loud from me.

1324
01:07:15,060 --> 01:07:15,900
Oh, yeah.

1325
01:07:17,140 --> 01:07:17,980
What was that?

1326
01:07:17,980 --> 01:07:18,820
The Inuit clapped.

1327
01:07:18,820 --> 01:07:19,660
The Inuit clapped.

1328
01:07:19,660 --> 01:07:25,540
What would you think about, like, you know, writing our own cage erotica?

1329
01:07:25,540 --> 01:07:29,180
Yes. And then like shooting videos of yourselves reading it

1330
01:07:29,180 --> 01:07:32,060
and like the same style where you're breaking the wall.

1331
01:07:32,060 --> 01:07:35,100
If you guys write us that poetry, we will read it.

1332
01:07:35,100 --> 01:07:36,220
Yeah. Yeah.

1333
01:07:36,220 --> 01:07:38,820
Well, yeah, let's lay it on the line.

1334
01:07:38,820 --> 01:07:40,540
Write us your Nick Cage poetry.

1335
01:07:40,540 --> 01:07:43,940
I'll buy a smoking jacket and we'll find a fireplace.

1336
01:07:43,940 --> 01:07:45,420
Perfect. We'll make this happen.

1337
01:07:45,420 --> 01:07:48,180
Yeah. We'll rotate who wears who reads.

1338
01:07:48,340 --> 01:07:49,420
Yeah. It's good.

1339
01:07:49,420 --> 01:07:51,500
I like this idea. Only for the patrons.

1340
01:07:51,500 --> 01:07:53,020
Sign up for our Patreon.

1341
01:07:53,020 --> 01:07:57,900
Thank you to our Sparkle buddies, Josh, Sean, Josie, Rico, Matt, Adam and Bill

1342
01:07:58,500 --> 01:08:01,820
and our kids dancers, Ira, John, Freeman, Lance and Nathan.

1343
01:08:02,780 --> 01:08:04,380
But thank you guys for being here.

1344
01:08:04,380 --> 01:08:05,300
What's that thing you just did?

1345
01:08:05,300 --> 01:08:07,540
What a pleasure. A segue.

1346
01:08:07,540 --> 01:08:10,460
That was a segue is a let's go home.

1347
01:08:10,460 --> 01:08:12,140
I'm tired and have a new baby.

1348
01:08:12,140 --> 01:08:16,860
Oh, do you guys have anything you want to promote or just put out there?

1349
01:08:16,860 --> 01:08:19,860
Well, I would highly recommend people read the book.

1350
01:08:19,860 --> 01:08:21,700
It's a super easy read.

1351
01:08:21,700 --> 01:08:24,940
You can make it through and in a weekend.

1352
01:08:25,220 --> 01:08:29,260
It's one hundred and eighty nine pages and it's rather profound.

1353
01:08:29,260 --> 01:08:31,580
I think John O'Brien is kind of a

1354
01:08:33,100 --> 01:08:36,220
a lost treasure of U.S. American literature.

1355
01:08:36,220 --> 01:08:38,860
So, yeah, I'll just plug the book. Nice.

1356
01:08:38,860 --> 01:08:42,020
And I'll plug asking for help, getting help if you need it.

1357
01:08:42,260 --> 01:08:43,260
Very important.

1358
01:08:43,260 --> 01:08:46,780
Very important. I'm going to close on

1359
01:08:47,660 --> 01:08:51,540
Wang willing and not to gangrenous.

1360
01:08:52,980 --> 01:08:55,540
Wow. Bye bye.

1361
01:09:06,100 --> 01:09:08,820
It's been a minute since I've said that.

1362
01:09:08,820 --> 01:09:09,980
Yeah, it's true. You're right.

1363
01:09:09,980 --> 01:09:11,460
It's not an audience time.

1364
01:09:11,460 --> 01:09:13,620
No, not they don't know shit.

1365
01:09:13,620 --> 01:09:17,260
For as far as they know, we just watched the crudes, too, which was great.

1366
01:09:17,940 --> 01:09:20,940
The recruiting, the recruiting.

1367
01:09:20,940 --> 01:09:25,140
So I just wanted to make like a louder cruder

1368
01:09:26,140 --> 01:09:27,060
joke.

1369
01:09:27,060 --> 01:09:30,020
Yeah, that's a bigger cruder.

1370
01:09:30,580 --> 01:09:31,900
Crudier. Yeah.

1371
01:09:31,900 --> 01:09:32,900
The day.

1372
01:09:33,540 --> 01:09:34,540
No.

1373
01:09:36,780 --> 01:09:39,540
It was what it was a six hour class.

1374
01:09:39,540 --> 01:09:43,500
Dang. That's why you need the staff.

1375
01:09:43,500 --> 01:09:44,460
You can fall asleep.

1376
01:09:44,460 --> 01:09:47,420
I guess, man, it was a pain to get your rest.

1377
01:09:47,460 --> 01:09:50,700
It was a painting class and the long pose was seated, so it really wasn't that bad.

1378
01:09:51,700 --> 01:09:53,100
The long pose.

1379
01:09:53,100 --> 01:09:54,780
Really being generous with yourself there.

1380
01:09:57,580 --> 01:09:58,980
All right. That was pretty good.

1381
01:09:58,980 --> 01:10:09,700
I'll put it up. All right.