WEBVTT

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You're listening to There Auto Be A Law, the

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Center for Auto Safety podcast with Executive

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Director Michael Brooks, Chief Engineer Fred

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Perkins, and hosted by me, Anthony Cimino. For

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over 50 years, the Center for Auto Safety has

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worked to make cars safer. We're going to be

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doing this one twice. No, we're not. I've got

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this recording now. Oh, say everybody it's a

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Wednesday, July 1st. It's a very hot day. I hope

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wherever you are, you're staying cool. Half the

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year is over. I hope you've achieved all of your

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objectives for the new year resolution. I got

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six months left back off. Yeah. I didn't even

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start that list. It goes fast. It's all downhill.

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Yeah, I know. Anyway, let's talk safety and automobiles

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and things of that nature. Sounds good. That

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sounds great. Worth a shot. All right. So we

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talk a lot about these autonomous vehicle companies.

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And we say, hey, Waymo, they've got their approach

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in using cameras and radars and LiDAR. And Tesla's

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using their approach, which is just, we're going

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to lie to the public repeatedly. There's another

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company. It's a British company, I believe. It's

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called Wave, W -A -Y -V -E. And their approach

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is saying, hey, we're not going to build the

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car. We're going to build basically add -ons

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to existing vehicles that we can then sell to.

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you know oems and try that and their approach

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is saying hey we don't need lidar we're just

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going to do cameras and radar which i guess is

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slightly better than tesla's approach but i don't

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know a friend of the show missy cummings would

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approve because i know she said you know vision

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only will not work and i think that's proven

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itself to date i don't know if vision and radar

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itself will work but we have a the wall street

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journal does a long piece on this this company

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wave, and I want to quote from the article. On

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a test drive in one of the Grand Cherokee prototypes

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last month, a Stellantis engineer took his hands

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off the wheel and the vehicle navigated through

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stop signs and traffic lights around the automaker's

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sprawling campus in Auburn Hills, Michigan. The

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ride was smooth, save for a split second when

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the Grand Cherokee had trouble finding its way

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amid faded road markings. So reading that and

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kind of, the article is a little bit of a puff

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piece, but reading that, I say, oh, it's, you

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know, not that, much different than what's been

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on the market for five years from everybody else.

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Is there anything new here? Is it just a new

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approach? It's not even a new approach. It's

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the same approach that's been used in the past

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by, well, Tesla, of course, and Waymo has done

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the same thing. They basically started off with

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putting a software suite into an existing vehicle

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with their Jaguar. iPace, I think it was. And

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so they retrofitted it with new software and

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some new sensors. So there's not a lot different

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with this approach. Different suite of sensors.

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They're not using the LiDAR, but we'll see how

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that works out, I guess. It's interesting, though,

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that they're doing it on a test track first,

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which is interesting because there's been some

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renewed discussion about graduated licensing

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programs. and how that could be applied to AVs.

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So this is the first step in a rational graduated

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licensing program to take the technology onto

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a test track and put it through its paces before

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you try to bring it out on the road. So maybe

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we're seeing a trend. Well, that's optimistic

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because in the article, it talks about how it

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convinced Stellantis to even try this is that

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they drove it around the streets of London. You

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know. Well, I am an optimist, but that's London,

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you know. Oh, yeah. That's easy driving there.

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No worries whatsoever. I mean, there's a couple

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of things in this article that I want to point

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out. One is the title. You know, Wave is challenging

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Tesla and Waymo in the race to automate driving.

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I mean, from my perspective, either you're challenging

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Waymo and you're way past Tesla or you're challenging

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Tesla and you're way behind Waymo. You know,

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conflating the two and the approach here doesn't

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really work. And I don't even know if Waymo should

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be brought into this discussion because pretty

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clearly what Wave is doing is a lot more analogous

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to what Tesla is doing. I mean, essentially,

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they're trying to build a full self -driving.

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hands -off software suite that's going to face

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a lot of the same problems with takeover as Tesla

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has. And then they're going to install it in

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Chrysler. It's a great idea. But I will, another

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thing in the article, you know, I just have concerns

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about the way people discuss this. You know,

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a couple of the people, it says a couple of the

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people, you know, at Wave, said Wave spent years

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working out how to make its AI driver compliant.

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And that solution had been accepted by the safety

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experts at Stellantis, Nissan, and other automakers

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with which it is in talks. There is no, there

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are no regulations, right, around the AI driver

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and how to make it compliant. So I don't understand

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what the hell they're talking about there. And

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I don't know why safety experts at these auto

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companies are accepting that determination, given

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the fact that there are no compliance standards

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for an AI driver. Yeah. Well, I think there are

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some regulations in Europe, but I don't know.

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Again, the reference is obscure, so we don't

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know what they're doing. But I'm not that familiar

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with the European regulations, but I do know

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that some exist. I mean, I think my takeaway

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from this is get rid of all the hype and all

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of that nonsense. I think it's interesting that

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other companies are trying to do these things.

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But I also think it's just beyond hype and, hey,

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maybe, you know, you guys claim that these autonomous

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vehicles will do everything, including we don't

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need brake pedals anymore, which we're going

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to get to in a second, because the automated

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driving system will take care of that. But at

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the same time, you have every auto manufacturer

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saying, we can't get automatic emergency braking

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to work. Or even in this case, we can't find

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lanes when the markings aren't there. Right.

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So it's pretty dangerous, right? So this is the

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Wright Brothers time frame of autonomous driving.

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I don't even know if the Wright Brothers. No,

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because they only did it by themselves on a sand

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dune. Yeah, but if you get rid of all the hype

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and the nonsense, what do you have left, Anthony?

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You're trying to ruin an industry. I don't know.

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I hear the word Chrysler and a Tesla -like autonomous

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system, and I think people are going to die.

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Yeah. But maybe I'm just taking that too far.

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No, no. I hear the word Chrysler, and I just

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think of Lee Iacocca. You know, safety doesn't

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sell. What was his quote? Yeah, that was. Yeah,

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there we go. And let's continue with our world

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of autonomous vehicles. Since I mentioned the

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lack of brake pedal. So the NHTSA has proposed

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last Thursday to end the government require requirement

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for manual brake pedals and self -driving vehicles,

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a move that would make it easier to deploy such

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vehicles on U .S. roads. Now. Right now, we said

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Waymo's taken the Jaguar vehicles and they've

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just basically modified them. So they still have

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steering wheels and brake pedals and accelerators.

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And this has come in really handy when Waymo

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has blocked emergency responders. I mean, because

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eventually cops have to get in there or fire

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department folks have to get in there. After

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dealing with customer support somewhere in the

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Philippines says, let me in the vehicle, let

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me in the vehicle. People are dying. Let me in

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the vehicle. And then they get in there and they

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move the vehicle. I don't know how this works

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without steering wheels and brake pedals, but.

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Well, I mean, I think it works up to the point

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where the operator, the police officers talking

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to, you know, there's no choice there for the

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for for an emergency responder. to move the vehicle.

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They're completely reliant on remote operators

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or a supervisor coming to the scene in order

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to get that vehicle out of a dangerous situation

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versus being able to jump into it and drive it

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away. So it's, I mean, that's a scary scenario

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that we're purposely putting cars on the road

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before they're ready when they haven't proven

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that they can work in all these scenarios and

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then taking out the only way for a human operator

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to clear the road. It's bizarre because they're

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saying exactly that we don't need brake pedals

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because the car will stop itself in all emergency

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situations. But again, as we pointed out repeatedly,

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automatic emergency braking, every single original

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equipment manufacturer, every single car brand

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has said, we can't do this at highway speeds.

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Absolutely not. This is an impossibility. And

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NHTSA in this proposal has said, we don't need

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brakes in here because that could pose as a safety

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risk through intentional or... unintentional

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misuse by a vehicle passenger. So we want to

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agree. If you're in the driver's seat and there's

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a brake pedal that's available and turned on,

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you're not a passenger, right? Exactly. So they're

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improving safety by removing the thing that could

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provide safety. Is that what we're? Here's the

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thing about this whole process. And this is,

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I'll just go ahead and jump into my gas light.

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What they're doing here. is a administrative,

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political -driven effort to get autonomous vehicles

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or loosen any reins that might be keeping autonomous

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vehicles from being able to comply with federal

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motor vehicle safety standards. What they're

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not doing and where we're being gaslit on this

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whole thing is that essentially they're allowing

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for autonomous vehicles to be deployed on our

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roads without setting any sort of corresponding

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safety metrics that these vehicles have to meet

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before they can be deployed. So essentially they're

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allowing vehicles that they are unable to safely

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regulate at this point. And I think, you know,

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this is something that has been doing for years.

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We've said they're putting the cart before the

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horse. We've proposed a number of solutions to

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this, including gated certification that gives

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the public an independent, verifiable source

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of information that can weigh in on the safety

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of these vehicles before they go onto public

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roads. NHTSA does not want to take that approach.

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They want to go right along with the manufacturers

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who don't want any rules and want to be able

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to deploy whatever they want onto our roads without

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sufficient safety checks. All over my gaslight

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of the week for this. That's a good gaslight.

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But Michael, this is just the NHTSA has proposed

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this. Well, it's a proposed rule. They're moving

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quickly. In the last, I think, four months, they've

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proposed new rules that will allow autonomous

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vehicles to operate under, I think, five or six

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different safety standards that apply to traditional

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cars that are preventing autonomous vehicles

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from operating. So a proposed rule is the...

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A notice of proposed rulemaking is essentially

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the last step before a final rule comes out.

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And in this case, you know, there's nothing stopping

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it. What typically blocks the movement of rules

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through the rulemaking process at NHTSA is opposition

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by automakers. Automatic emergency braking, perfect

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example. still suing the agency after it put

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these rules out on automatic emergency braking

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two years ago, trying to hold up the process.

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So far, they've, you know, been successful in

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delaying good automatic emergency braking with

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pedestrian automatic emergency braking coming

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to cars by two years to 2029. Who knows if that's

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going to be extended even longer into the future.

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And so it's, you know, the automakers. are opposing

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safety on your normal human -operated car, opposing

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any type of minimum safety standards there. And

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here, they're just being a gift by NHTSA, saying

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you can operate, you can deploy these vehicles,

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and we're not going to force you to do any type

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of safety checklist before you put them on the

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road. Crazy. Fred, do you have a gas light this

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week? Oh, I do. Our friends in Dearborn, Michigan.

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That's Ford. It's a four -letter word, yeah.

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Aren't familiar with the quality. Now, Ford traditionally

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stood for fix or repair daily. And they've been

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kind of consistent with that. But last week,

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they took out a full -page ad in the New York

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Times that says, I'm quoting the top, you put

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quality first. Now Ford is first in quality.

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And they're touting their J .D. Power Award.

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Well, the headline is a lie because Ford is not

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first in quality according to J .D. Power. They're

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forced in initial quality. What that means is

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it's only the first 90 days of history of quality

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issues. That's the basis for J .D. Power's award.

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Wait, I gotta jump in here for a second. Wait,

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they actually have a reward? That says it's like

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your first equality for the first 90 days. This

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is not a disposable product. This is not like

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a shaver or something. Well, that's true. Most

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people keep their cars for more than 90 days.

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So basically, they go on to tell it their own

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quality without ever notifying people within

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this. This is only an initial quality award,

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number one. Number two, who the hell is J .D.

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Power? So I looked into that a little bit, and

00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:12.259
I find there's a lot of criticism. J .D. Power

00:14:12.259 --> 00:14:18.259
is actually a PR firm, and there's no public

00:14:18.259 --> 00:14:20.480
disclosure of what they use to determine first

00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:22.500
-in -quality. They just say it's based on reports.

00:14:23.179 --> 00:14:25.480
But there's been a lot of shady stuff going on

00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:30.080
for a long time with these outside endorsements

00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:35.549
of car quality. So I did a little research. And,

00:14:35.549 --> 00:14:38.730
you know, Motor Trend also puts out an award

00:14:38.730 --> 00:14:40.690
for Car of the Year, right? You're familiar with

00:14:40.690 --> 00:14:46.409
that? 1960 Car of the Year was a Chevrolet Corvair.

00:14:47.830 --> 00:14:50.350
Michael, is that got any particular history with

00:14:50.350 --> 00:14:53.190
the Center for Auto Safety? The Chevrolet, you

00:14:53.190 --> 00:14:56.070
know, Chevy Corvairs are obviously were a bad

00:14:56.070 --> 00:14:58.909
thing at one point in the past. And that problem

00:14:58.909 --> 00:15:03.110
was was fixed. Side note, I have to mention this

00:15:03.110 --> 00:15:05.620
because. It must have been like 20 years ago.

00:15:05.700 --> 00:15:09.340
There's a Corvair owners club. And I think it

00:15:09.340 --> 00:15:11.120
was about 20 years ago. They invited as their

00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:14.299
guest speaker for the annual gala was Ralph Nader.

00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:18.519
Yeah. And for those who aren't aware of this,

00:15:18.620 --> 00:15:22.100
the Chevrolet Corvair was basically the source

00:15:22.100 --> 00:15:28.299
for the entire consumer advocacy movement because

00:15:28.299 --> 00:15:32.860
it led to a book by Ralph Nader called. unsafe

00:15:32.860 --> 00:15:36.600
at any speed, which then motivated people to

00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:39.480
start wondering if the industries are really

00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:41.500
doing all the wonderful things they said they

00:15:41.500 --> 00:15:43.320
were doing, or is there something nefarious going

00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:47.360
on? So, and here we are years later, wondering

00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:50.000
if J .D. Power is pulling the same kind of trick

00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:54.279
with Ford Motor Company and the American public.

00:15:54.620 --> 00:15:58.360
So when you read that Ford is first in quality,

00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:04.519
interpret that as Ford's got some strong PR for

00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:08.220
the first 90 days of consumer experience with

00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:14.620
their cars in 2025. So pretty limited if you

00:16:14.620 --> 00:16:17.799
look into it a little bit. So that's my Gashlight

00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:20.799
of the Week. That's pretty good. I think we should

00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:23.379
change the Ford acronym to File One Recall Daily.

00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:25.740
Yeah, that's a pretty good one. I was going to

00:16:25.740 --> 00:16:27.639
ask you, Michael, what is the recall history

00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:33.639
compared to other... cars for 2025? Well, Ford

00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:36.679
has led, I think, in recalls from 2024 through

00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:40.080
the present. And we'll get to more today. A lot

00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:42.500
to do. I think we talked last week with the consent

00:16:42.500 --> 00:16:44.179
agreement they had to enter with NHTSA because

00:16:44.179 --> 00:16:48.000
they were violating federal recall law. So the

00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:51.300
experience by the federal government. Directly

00:16:51.300 --> 00:16:53.840
contradicts the award given by J .D. Power. Is

00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:56.500
that what you're suggesting? No, because most

00:16:56.500 --> 00:17:00.100
recalls don't arise in the first 90 days of ownership.

00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:04.059
But day 91, that's a shit show. Day 91, you're

00:17:04.059 --> 00:17:09.240
screwed. I mean, I guess I always want to make

00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:11.680
the alternative argument here, which is that

00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:15.140
Ford's massive number of recalls suggest that

00:17:15.140 --> 00:17:17.960
they are taking safety seriously and maybe quality.

00:17:18.099 --> 00:17:23.420
But, you know. Adorable. Yeah. My gaslight this

00:17:23.420 --> 00:17:26.700
week is the U .S. Commerce Department. That's

00:17:26.700 --> 00:17:29.740
right. The U .S. Commerce Department. Because

00:17:29.740 --> 00:17:33.259
now they are saying Polestar, I believe, right?

00:17:33.339 --> 00:17:37.160
They are banning Polestar from being able to

00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:40.240
sell vehicles in the United States. And this

00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:43.420
is all part of we're banning Chinese connected

00:17:43.420 --> 00:17:47.519
cars. Bum, bum, bum. I'm going to quote. What?

00:17:48.089 --> 00:17:49.950
Yeah, so I'm going to quote from the Commerce

00:17:49.950 --> 00:17:52.730
Secretary under Biden because this is when this

00:17:52.730 --> 00:17:55.849
started even. Wow. When foreign adversaries build

00:17:55.849 --> 00:17:58.390
software to make a vehicle connected, that means

00:17:58.390 --> 00:18:00.329
it can be used for surveillance, can be remotely

00:18:00.329 --> 00:18:02.690
controlled, which threatens the privacy and safety

00:18:02.690 --> 00:18:05.470
of Americans on the road. That was the Commerce

00:18:05.470 --> 00:18:08.970
Secretary Gina Raimondo. In an extreme situation,

00:18:09.369 --> 00:18:11.630
a foreign adversary could shut down or take control

00:18:11.630 --> 00:18:13.789
of all the vehicles operating in the United States

00:18:13.789 --> 00:18:16.789
all at the same time, causing crashes, blocking

00:18:16.789 --> 00:18:21.049
roads, creating plots of cheesy movies, said

00:18:21.049 --> 00:18:23.130
the secretary. A scenario which we saw depicted

00:18:23.130 --> 00:18:27.630
in the fate of the furious. Oh, my God. Well,

00:18:27.650 --> 00:18:29.809
I remember we talked last week about the reality

00:18:29.809 --> 00:18:34.910
of this happening by GPS jamming. And that's

00:18:34.910 --> 00:18:38.720
a that's a fact. Our friends in Russia are shown

00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:43.160
to have done that. Sure, but this is all scaremongering

00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:47.140
around. China is going to do this. They're surveillance

00:18:47.140 --> 00:18:51.000
vehicles. And this is just straight -up protectionism

00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.039
for U .S. automakers that can't compete at this

00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:56.319
time. I don't think that's going to help the

00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:58.200
resale value of anybody who's already bought

00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:00.519
a Polestar. I think if you've got a Polestar,

00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:03.119
I mean, as far as we can tell right now, you're

00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:05.559
going to be driving it. you know, for 13 years

00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:08.140
minimum. Whereas if you have a Ford, day 91,

00:19:08.259 --> 00:19:12.359
you're like, ah, shit. This one's interesting.

00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:14.119
I mean, I don't know if this is part of your

00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:17.220
gaslight, but, you know, the parent company is

00:19:17.220 --> 00:19:21.720
Geely in China, which also owns Volvo, right?

00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:26.480
And is responsible for manufacturing Volvo, some

00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:30.579
of which, you know, I don't understand. You know,

00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:33.299
the administration gave Volvo approval in this

00:19:33.299 --> 00:19:35.859
area and have banned Polestar. You know, there

00:19:35.859 --> 00:19:38.160
are Polestars that are built in the United States.

00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:41.759
They have a factory here. I think they're being

00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:44.420
serviced at Volvo dealerships. So if you did

00:19:44.420 --> 00:19:47.779
buy a Polestar, you're not totally screwed as

00:19:47.779 --> 00:19:51.259
far as warranty and repair and support because

00:19:51.259 --> 00:19:53.220
you'll be able to visit a Volvo dealer. That's

00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:56.759
my understanding. But you really have to question,

00:19:56.839 --> 00:20:00.450
you know, here whether or not, you know. Polestar

00:20:00.450 --> 00:20:04.470
made the appropriate payments to get commerce

00:20:04.470 --> 00:20:06.569
off their back. I don't know what happened here.

00:20:06.630 --> 00:20:09.390
Why does Volvo, with the same parent company

00:20:09.390 --> 00:20:13.670
and shared manufacturing, why do they get a pass

00:20:13.670 --> 00:20:18.529
here? And Polestar is, you know, banned, essentially.

00:20:18.630 --> 00:20:22.529
It makes no sense. And the whole Chinese scare

00:20:22.529 --> 00:20:24.569
monitoring saying this is a surveillance threat,

00:20:24.630 --> 00:20:27.250
if this was a real national security issue. They

00:20:27.250 --> 00:20:29.269
would stop the sale of these vehicles immediately.

00:20:29.690 --> 00:20:32.930
But no, they're waiting until 2027 because it's

00:20:32.930 --> 00:20:35.990
not a threat. American -made vehicles, they have

00:20:35.990 --> 00:20:39.269
all of those same problems, right? Everything

00:20:39.269 --> 00:20:40.970
that was named about the problems with potential

00:20:40.970 --> 00:20:45.210
Chinese -connected vehicles goes for American

00:20:45.210 --> 00:20:47.769
vehicles as well. And if they could be hacked

00:20:47.769 --> 00:20:51.690
into, which I'm going to guess they can, don't

00:20:51.690 --> 00:20:54.109
foreign adversaries still have the exact same?

00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:59.720
power i guess you know to to surveil and remember

00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:03.279
every every car uses what's called a can bus

00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:08.299
and the can bus is inherently insecure so every

00:21:08.299 --> 00:21:11.819
car that's on the road can be hacked by virtually

00:21:11.819 --> 00:21:14.059
anybody who's really interested in doing that

00:21:14.059 --> 00:21:17.279
there's uh you know i'm not sure what the unique

00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:19.599
properties of the polestar are that make it a

00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:24.049
unique threat except for the yellow peril That's

00:21:24.049 --> 00:21:26.710
it. Lurking on the horizon. This is just, you

00:21:26.710 --> 00:21:29.329
know, every corporation says, we believe in the

00:21:29.329 --> 00:21:32.470
free market, but we really want a bunch of subsidies

00:21:32.470 --> 00:21:34.930
and don't let us actually compete against people

00:21:34.930 --> 00:21:37.630
who are doing stuff much better than us. So my

00:21:37.630 --> 00:21:41.809
gaslight for the week is the Chinese fear -mongering

00:21:41.809 --> 00:21:44.750
out of Biden's Commerce Secretary and the current

00:21:44.750 --> 00:21:47.329
Commerce Secretary under Trump. It's ridiculous.

00:21:47.650 --> 00:21:49.549
And this week I win because I haven't won in

00:21:49.549 --> 00:21:52.880
a couple weeks. So there we go. Yeah, I think

00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:56.220
it does make sense. You got a subsidy. You get

00:21:56.220 --> 00:21:59.940
subsidies as well. Yeah, great. Of course. Let's

00:21:59.940 --> 00:22:02.859
continue with our world of autonomous vehicles

00:22:02.859 --> 00:22:05.660
and self -driving, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:11.079
blah, blah. There's a company called Tesla. And

00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:14.680
they settled a lawsuit over a deadly crash involving

00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:16.660
full self -driving. This is from a Bloomberg

00:22:16.660 --> 00:22:20.029
article. I'm going to quote from it. In crashes

00:22:20.029 --> 00:22:22.670
reviewed by NHTSA, Tesla's system did not detect

00:22:22.670 --> 00:22:25.369
common roadway conditions that impaired camera

00:22:25.369 --> 00:22:28.089
visibility until immediately before a crash,

00:22:28.190 --> 00:22:30.410
the regulator said. A review of Tesla's responses

00:22:30.410 --> 00:22:32.269
revealed additional crashes that occurred in

00:22:32.269 --> 00:22:34.029
similar environments and where the system either

00:22:34.029 --> 00:22:37.069
did not detect a degraded state and or did not

00:22:37.069 --> 00:22:38.930
present the driver with an alert with adequate

00:22:38.930 --> 00:22:41.410
time for the driver to react. In each of these

00:22:41.410 --> 00:22:45.029
crashes, FSD also lost track of or never detected

00:22:45.029 --> 00:22:47.859
a lead vehicle on its path. In this case, what

00:22:47.859 --> 00:22:49.720
happens, there was a crash, a woman got out of

00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:53.420
a vehicle and was helping to guide traffic around

00:22:53.420 --> 00:22:56.900
this crash. Tesla's cameras were blinded by the

00:22:56.900 --> 00:23:00.359
sun and ran into her full speed and killed her.

00:23:01.420 --> 00:23:03.480
One of the interesting parts of this is a few

00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:07.059
years ago, Elon Musk said, and this is from his

00:23:07.059 --> 00:23:10.140
Twitter feed, my commitment, we will never seek

00:23:10.140 --> 00:23:12.859
victory in a just case against us, even if we

00:23:12.859 --> 00:23:14.990
will probably win, he wrote. We will never surrender

00:23:14.990 --> 00:23:17.549
slash settle an unjust case against us, even

00:23:17.549 --> 00:23:20.750
if we will probably lose. Well, this is clearly

00:23:20.750 --> 00:23:24.470
a just case because he said, you know, everyone,

00:23:24.890 --> 00:23:28.250
you know, he's full of shit completely, obviously,

00:23:28.369 --> 00:23:31.789
because this I mean, this case was filed, what,

00:23:31.829 --> 00:23:36.509
three years ago? Yeah. So this person, the surviving,

00:23:36.509 --> 00:23:41.490
I think the daughter of the lady who was killed.

00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:47.119
filed the case in 2023 so you know once again

00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:49.839
elon's straight up liar i mean it's pretty clear

00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:52.579
here that the camera system in the tesla was

00:23:52.579 --> 00:23:54.559
blinded by the sun glare we know that's a huge

00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:56.920
problem with with the teslas it's something that

00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:59.880
they haven't done anything to work around as

00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:02.099
far as we can tell there's still nits investigations

00:24:02.099 --> 00:24:06.519
open on it with no resolution so um once again

00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:08.240
this is one of the stronger arguments by the

00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:12.920
way for not relying on a single sensor for driving

00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:16.339
the car right if they'd had radar the radar would

00:24:16.339 --> 00:24:20.039
not have been blinded by the sun if they had

00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:21.859
light or the light hour would have been blinded

00:24:21.859 --> 00:24:26.000
by the sun so a strong argument for doing things

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:30.519
right and not relying upon a single sensor yeah

00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:35.180
it's uh it's it's crazy uh related to this senator

00:24:35.180 --> 00:24:38.759
blumenthal from connecticut He said, I'm going

00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:40.640
to quote from him from an NBC article. You know,

00:24:40.700 --> 00:24:42.640
bottom line here is Tesla's owned by the richest

00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:44.819
man in the world. Elon Musk is an asshole. No,

00:24:44.859 --> 00:24:46.980
he says Elon Musk is a trillionaire. He could

00:24:46.980 --> 00:24:49.500
well afford to make this system safer or at the

00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:52.160
very least provide the public with complete and

00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:54.720
accurate information about the potential dangers

00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.660
of full self -driving and make information fully

00:24:57.660 --> 00:25:00.359
transparent and accurate. But he's failing to

00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:03.160
do so because he's an asshole. He's doing the

00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:04.900
opposite, right? They're publishing statistics

00:25:04.900 --> 00:25:08.180
claiming that this vehicle system is so much

00:25:08.180 --> 00:25:11.200
safer than drivers without any type of, you know,

00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:13.900
obviously we can't verify any of that information.

00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:16.680
They're not sharing the data with anyone. You

00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:18.839
know, given the history of the company, I'm happily

00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:21.339
willing to suggest that that's just another lie

00:25:21.339 --> 00:25:26.599
they've created out of their private data. Well,

00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:28.900
I'm shocked that you guys would accuse Mr. Moscow

00:25:28.900 --> 00:25:31.319
of creating a Ponzi scheme based upon his lies.

00:25:32.109 --> 00:25:34.730
Prevarications and hyperbole. I mean, at this

00:25:34.730 --> 00:25:36.470
point, it just couldn't be any more obvious,

00:25:36.609 --> 00:25:39.089
right? I mean, we've been watching this for 10

00:25:39.089 --> 00:25:43.190
years, and the only people who disagree are the

00:25:43.190 --> 00:25:45.190
people who want to make money watching the stock

00:25:45.190 --> 00:25:48.670
go up. By the way, he's no longer a trillionaire

00:25:48.670 --> 00:25:52.789
if you're following the latest news about the

00:25:52.789 --> 00:25:54.869
stock market. This is a good segue for, hey,

00:25:54.869 --> 00:25:57.630
listeners, go check your SpaceX stock price.

00:25:57.769 --> 00:25:59.170
And while you're doing that, go to autosafety

00:25:59.170 --> 00:26:02.200
.org and click on Donate. We prefer that you

00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:09.400
don't donate SpaceX stock, though. Yeah, it's

00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:12.059
just more obfuscation from the world of Tesla.

00:26:12.259 --> 00:26:14.640
So let's jump on to one of their competitors,

00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:18.200
who's also got a little Elon in him, which is

00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:20.880
sad. Rivian. Now, Rivian, what I like about them

00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:24.819
is their CEO is an actual engineer. Unlike Elon,

00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:29.359
who's just a carnival barker. The head of Rivian

00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:31.880
is a legit engineer. But unfortunately, I think

00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:35.420
he got sucked into the Elon distortion field

00:26:35.420 --> 00:26:37.619
and started saying things to his customers that

00:26:37.619 --> 00:26:39.900
are also not true. And this is related to a lawsuit

00:26:39.900 --> 00:26:43.000
around their system called Driver Plus, which

00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:45.700
is their kind of level three autonomy. And as

00:26:45.700 --> 00:26:49.059
we've repeated repeatedly on this show, redundantly,

00:26:49.059 --> 00:26:51.940
all the time, level three is probably the most

00:26:51.940 --> 00:26:55.259
dangerous form of driving ever. I'd prefer that

00:26:55.259 --> 00:26:58.700
you drive drunk as a teenager. texting on your

00:26:58.700 --> 00:27:01.420
phone to try to use a level three system okay

00:27:01.420 --> 00:27:04.359
it's none of that's i don't don't drive as a

00:27:04.359 --> 00:27:07.460
teenager uh there's an article in tech crunch

00:27:07.460 --> 00:27:09.579
and i'm gonna quote the lawsuit alleges rivian

00:27:09.579 --> 00:27:12.259
falsely promised over a five -year period and

00:27:12.259 --> 00:27:14.380
through a coordinated nationwide marketing campaign

00:27:14.380 --> 00:27:17.079
that would that it would make its hands -free

00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:19.680
driver assistance system known as driver plus

00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:22.420
standard in every vehicle it bills among the

00:27:22.420 --> 00:27:25.799
appearances cited in the suit rivian ceo rj scarring

00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:29.190
scarring scarring Appearance at TechCrunch Disrupt

00:27:29.190 --> 00:27:32.710
2022 were reportedly made representations about

00:27:32.710 --> 00:27:34.869
the company's autonomous driving ambitions. No

00:27:34.869 --> 00:27:36.529
software update, no matter how sophisticated,

00:27:36.869 --> 00:27:39.250
will enable its Generation 1 vehicles to perform

00:27:39.250 --> 00:27:42.230
as advertised in the complaint reads. This is

00:27:42.230 --> 00:27:43.789
very similar to what we've seen with full self

00:27:43.789 --> 00:27:47.289
-driving and Tesla saying, hey, back in 2016,

00:27:47.769 --> 00:27:50.650
2017, this will become an autonomous vehicle

00:27:50.650 --> 00:27:53.049
one day that will pick up people while you sleep

00:27:53.049 --> 00:27:54.910
at night and you'll never have to mop your back

00:27:54.910 --> 00:27:58.609
seats out. And this is, you know, and Tesla clearly

00:27:58.609 --> 00:28:00.069
was like, well, we got to replace the cameras

00:28:00.069 --> 00:28:03.130
and replace the computers. How about you just

00:28:03.130 --> 00:28:07.069
go away and buy a different car? And Rivian fell

00:28:07.069 --> 00:28:11.589
for the same nonsense. Yeah, I mean, essentially,

00:28:11.670 --> 00:28:14.849
they just replicated Tesla's promises that one

00:28:14.849 --> 00:28:18.069
day this vehicle will be able to do X. Well,

00:28:18.289 --> 00:28:21.309
we're at that one day and it's not doing X, certainly

00:28:21.309 --> 00:28:24.759
not doing it safely in the case of Tesla. I don't

00:28:24.759 --> 00:28:26.779
think Rivian even deployed the system at all

00:28:26.779 --> 00:28:29.940
or will be able to deploy the system at all on

00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:35.180
their older vehicles. That would be like Piggly

00:28:35.180 --> 00:28:37.200
Wiggly. They're getting their just desserts by

00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:38.880
being taken to court for lying to consumers.

00:28:39.420 --> 00:28:41.240
That would be like Piggly Wiggly advertising

00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:43.940
a head of iceberg lettuce as a full -blown salad.

00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:49.019
Wow. That was something. It's a salad that makes

00:28:49.019 --> 00:28:56.430
itself. Oh, my God. Ladies and gentlemen, I can't

00:28:56.430 --> 00:28:57.930
tell if you can tell, but we're melting in the

00:28:57.930 --> 00:29:01.970
heat. Well, Piggly Wiggly would never do that,

00:29:01.990 --> 00:29:06.130
by the way. They would not. I can't imagine Piggly

00:29:06.130 --> 00:29:08.650
Wiggly would even sell vegetables, just given

00:29:08.650 --> 00:29:11.269
the name. Oh, come on, man. I've never been.

00:29:11.349 --> 00:29:14.009
I don't know. I don't know. You got to get out

00:29:14.009 --> 00:29:16.130
more. I don't need to go that far in the south.

00:29:17.649 --> 00:29:20.369
So let's jump to one of my favorite bugaboos,

00:29:20.369 --> 00:29:22.890
the airline industry. What does the airline industry

00:29:22.890 --> 00:29:25.509
have to do with auto safety? The airline industry

00:29:25.509 --> 00:29:28.470
does it better. That's what it is. They actually

00:29:28.470 --> 00:29:30.569
have to get things certified instead of self

00:29:30.569 --> 00:29:32.470
-certified. And I'm looking at the two of you

00:29:32.470 --> 00:29:34.809
and making sure that I'm correct. No one's giving

00:29:34.809 --> 00:29:36.769
me body language that says I'm wrong. All right.

00:29:36.990 --> 00:29:39.130
So the Wall Street Journal has an article titled,

00:29:39.269 --> 00:29:41.430
Airlines are installing new luxury seats, but

00:29:41.430 --> 00:29:45.170
no one is allowed to sit in them. Quoting. You

00:29:45.170 --> 00:29:47.150
don't think of seats as novel technology. We

00:29:47.150 --> 00:29:49.089
see seats, suites, especially in the premium

00:29:49.089 --> 00:29:50.990
section of the airplane that just don't pass

00:29:50.990 --> 00:29:54.569
our human factors tests for impact. The testing

00:29:54.569 --> 00:29:56.589
isn't new, but more complex, customized seat

00:29:56.589 --> 00:29:58.710
designs and new materials are raising new questions

00:29:58.710 --> 00:30:01.410
for a regulator, said Gary Weisel, a consultant

00:30:01.410 --> 00:30:03.490
who has assisted airlines developing, certifying,

00:30:03.490 --> 00:30:07.589
and installing new interiors. Again, he helps

00:30:07.589 --> 00:30:10.779
them certify. Wow. When seats are installed at

00:30:10.779 --> 00:30:12.779
an angle, like the herringbone configuration

00:30:12.779 --> 00:30:14.960
airlines have used to fit more flatbed seats,

00:30:15.180 --> 00:30:17.539
passengers can experience different types of

00:30:17.539 --> 00:30:20.000
injuries in a crash compared with the forward

00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:22.019
-facing seats that have populated coach cabins

00:30:22.019 --> 00:30:24.299
for decades. Room rear pods and other spacious

00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:27.000
premium seats allow bodies to go flailing in

00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:32.200
unusual ways. I think of Zoox now. Like, you

00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:34.480
know, Zoox allows you to sit in any direction

00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:36.839
you want. Well, you can face forward or backwards,

00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:38.440
depending on which way the vehicle's moving.

00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:42.039
And the auto industry, they get to say, yep,

00:30:42.099 --> 00:30:44.660
we've tested it. It's good. Show us the bodies.

00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:48.339
Whereas the airline industry, that's not what

00:30:48.339 --> 00:30:51.420
the FAA or is the FAA who regulates this, I assume?

00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:54.460
Says, no, you've got to show us that this is

00:30:54.460 --> 00:30:57.500
safe. I remember when the Airbus A380, the massive

00:30:57.500 --> 00:30:59.680
double -decker thing, they had to do all these

00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:03.200
tests to make sure that all 500, 600 people could

00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:06.180
get out and evacuate within like under 90 seconds.

00:31:07.819 --> 00:31:11.019
Whereas an auto company is just like, hey, man,

00:31:11.140 --> 00:31:15.000
there's level three driving. Go for it. Well,

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.440
you mentioned Zoox, and Zoox is allowed by the

00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:24.759
NHTSA to operate a commercial service with an

00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:28.900
uncertified vehicle and a vehicle that has variants

00:31:28.900 --> 00:31:33.059
on all of the FMVSS requirements, or at least

00:31:33.059 --> 00:31:35.299
some of them. And they're allowed to do that

00:31:35.299 --> 00:31:37.980
without even notifying their passengers that

00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:41.259
the vehicle is inconsistent with the safety regulations.

00:31:41.819 --> 00:31:47.140
So it's a whole different world. Just to clarify

00:31:47.140 --> 00:31:49.779
there, Zoox is not currently allowed to operate

00:31:49.779 --> 00:31:51.759
commercially because their exemption petition

00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:54.059
has not been approved. They were given a special

00:31:54.059 --> 00:31:56.880
exemption by the secretary, but they can't yet

00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:01.039
take paying passengers. Oh, I'm staying corrected.

00:32:01.609 --> 00:32:03.609
But they're trying to and they will any day now

00:32:03.609 --> 00:32:06.470
when that's presumably approves that exemption

00:32:06.470 --> 00:32:10.390
petition. So I know I've asked this question

00:32:10.390 --> 00:32:12.309
a thousand times and I'm going to ask it again.

00:32:12.789 --> 00:32:16.170
Why does why does the regulations around autos

00:32:16.170 --> 00:32:18.769
suck compared to the airline industry? More people

00:32:18.769 --> 00:32:21.109
die in car crashes than an airplane crashes.

00:32:21.990 --> 00:32:23.970
You know, I think there still remain questions

00:32:23.970 --> 00:32:26.609
about whether a manufacturer can self -certify

00:32:26.609 --> 00:32:31.529
novel seating under the federal. minimum safety

00:32:31.529 --> 00:32:33.789
standards that we have now. It's not something

00:32:33.789 --> 00:32:36.809
that the standards even really contemplate. They're

00:32:36.809 --> 00:32:41.029
almost exclusively concerned with forward -facing

00:32:41.029 --> 00:32:44.690
seats, maybe providing for rear -facing seats

00:32:44.690 --> 00:32:46.589
in some circumstances that, for those of you

00:32:46.589 --> 00:32:48.470
who have ridden in an old station wagon with

00:32:48.470 --> 00:32:52.829
the rear -facing seats. But, you know, I question

00:32:52.829 --> 00:32:57.549
whether a lot of newfangled seats can be certified

00:32:57.549 --> 00:33:03.450
to the FMDSS at this point. So that's going to

00:33:03.450 --> 00:33:06.309
take a lot of research. I mean, imagine a seat

00:33:06.309 --> 00:33:09.630
that, you know, some of the campfire seating

00:33:09.630 --> 00:33:11.930
type things that we've seen autonomous vehicle

00:33:11.930 --> 00:33:14.569
companies talk about where, you know, you essentially

00:33:14.569 --> 00:33:17.589
have a desk chair that spins on an axis. How

00:33:17.589 --> 00:33:20.710
on earth do you secure someone in that seat with

00:33:20.710 --> 00:33:23.450
a seatbelt, protect it with an airbag? Is there

00:33:23.450 --> 00:33:27.369
a way to do that? I don't know that any seats

00:33:27.369 --> 00:33:30.230
like that could be validly certified at this

00:33:30.230 --> 00:33:33.289
point unless NHTSA does the same thing to the

00:33:33.289 --> 00:33:35.529
seating standards that it's doing to every other

00:33:35.529 --> 00:33:37.690
standard that gets in the way of autonomous vehicles.

00:33:38.289 --> 00:33:40.369
I remember back in the – it must have been the

00:33:40.369 --> 00:33:43.769
80s. Cousins had a new minivan. It was a thing

00:33:43.769 --> 00:33:45.609
at the time, and they had these captain seats

00:33:45.609 --> 00:33:48.369
in the back, and they would spin like – I don't

00:33:48.369 --> 00:33:52.089
know if it was a full 360, but at least 120 degrees.

00:33:53.029 --> 00:33:56.599
Was it a – Larger vehicle? It was a larger vehicle,

00:33:56.759 --> 00:33:59.980
yeah. Like vans and other vehicles don't have

00:33:59.980 --> 00:34:03.079
to meet the same passenger standards. Like, you

00:34:03.079 --> 00:34:04.960
know, back in the day, you don't see bus drivers

00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:08.139
with the spinning type seats and other things.

00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:11.440
They weren't subject to the passenger car safety

00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:14.400
standards. So that was allowed. That's not allowed

00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:17.809
anymore, I assume. I don't know. It might be.

00:34:17.849 --> 00:34:20.690
I mean, a lot of the safety standards that would

00:34:20.690 --> 00:34:23.369
apply to our passenger cars don't apply to vehicles

00:34:23.369 --> 00:34:26.329
over 10 ,000 pounds and buses. There's a whole

00:34:26.329 --> 00:34:30.769
other wild world and lack of regulations once

00:34:30.769 --> 00:34:33.570
you hit certain weights. Isn't there a difference

00:34:33.570 --> 00:34:36.849
for aftermarket modifications, Michael? I mean,

00:34:36.869 --> 00:34:40.889
aftermarket modifications by me or you aren't

00:34:40.889 --> 00:34:43.210
regulated. I mean, you could put a spinning seat

00:34:43.210 --> 00:34:47.469
in your car, you know. And you wouldn't face

00:34:47.469 --> 00:34:50.329
any type of retribution from the government,

00:34:50.489 --> 00:34:52.469
although if you get in a crash, your likelihood

00:34:52.469 --> 00:34:55.489
of being dead or injured go up significantly.

00:34:56.090 --> 00:34:58.150
So, Michael, you're saying there has to be a

00:34:58.150 --> 00:35:00.170
lot of research on these new seat designs and

00:35:00.170 --> 00:35:05.170
layouts. I mean, just think about virtually every

00:35:05.170 --> 00:35:08.670
passenger test and vehicle safety test that's

00:35:08.670 --> 00:35:11.329
ever been carried out on occupant restraint and

00:35:11.329 --> 00:35:15.840
airbag systems. Did so in a forward facing seat

00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:19.860
and considering like all of the, you know, the

00:35:19.860 --> 00:35:23.139
physical and biological dynamics of crashes,

00:35:23.340 --> 00:35:26.719
all of the research we've done focuses on that.

00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:30.320
And so now you're going to expand that to 360

00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:35.420
degrees worth of impact. I don't know. It just

00:35:35.420 --> 00:35:39.139
seems like a very heavy lift to be able to certify

00:35:39.139 --> 00:35:41.440
something like that is safe. I mean, how on earth

00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:42.960
are you going to design a system that protects

00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:46.619
occupants in, you know, at every degree of potential

00:35:46.619 --> 00:35:49.119
seating direction? I don't know if that's feasible.

00:35:49.699 --> 00:35:52.980
And right now the current testing is for a 5

00:35:52.980 --> 00:35:59.500
'10", 175 -pound male. So, yeah, we'll get right

00:35:59.500 --> 00:36:01.920
on that. Sit wherever you like. Strap yourself

00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:04.260
to the roof rack, people. It's a good thing.

00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:08.019
It's a wonderful world. And with that, let's...

00:36:08.019 --> 00:36:11.699
Fred, you ready for a little Tau time? Tau time,

00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:16.639
yes. Clearing his throat and everything. He's

00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:19.739
still going. The small company called NVIDIA

00:36:19.739 --> 00:36:23.199
wants to get into this game even more heavily

00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:27.500
than it is now. So they've put out an article

00:36:27.500 --> 00:36:30.119
called For RoboTaxis, safety must be built in,

00:36:30.219 --> 00:36:36.519
not bolted on. Can't argue with that. But before

00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:38.380
building it in, you have to know what it is.

00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:44.059
And what is safety? It has to be defined and

00:36:44.059 --> 00:36:46.579
certified to be acceptable for commercial service,

00:36:46.780 --> 00:36:50.440
but neither of which is apparent here or anywhere

00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:55.739
else in the AV constellation. The article quotes

00:36:55.739 --> 00:36:59.320
ISO 26262, International Standards Organization

00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:04.289
26262, and says the Halos core. which is their

00:37:04.289 --> 00:37:08.250
software, is compliant with ISO 26262. Well,

00:37:08.289 --> 00:37:11.869
that's great because ISO 26262 doesn't really

00:37:11.869 --> 00:37:15.670
address software. But what it does do is it defines

00:37:15.670 --> 00:37:20.889
safety as absence, quoting, absence of unreasonable

00:37:20.889 --> 00:37:24.289
risk. Now, hiding behind this is essentially

00:37:24.289 --> 00:37:27.889
a get -out -of -jail -free card for AV developers

00:37:27.889 --> 00:37:32.449
because what's reasonable? There's no international

00:37:32.449 --> 00:37:34.710
standard of reasonable. And so what's reasonable

00:37:34.710 --> 00:37:38.250
is whatever the developer thinks is reasonable.

00:37:39.030 --> 00:37:41.889
So you can't be brought to court and say you

00:37:41.889 --> 00:37:44.849
violated the safety standard because your company

00:37:44.849 --> 00:37:46.909
would say, well, no, we didn't. Here's a list

00:37:46.909 --> 00:37:49.630
of things we think is reasonable. And so it would

00:37:49.630 --> 00:37:53.110
be up to the court to determine what's reasonable

00:37:53.110 --> 00:37:55.389
and what's not. So this kicks the whole problem,

00:37:55.489 --> 00:37:58.190
the whole engineering problem of safety design

00:37:58.190 --> 00:38:01.960
down the road somewhere in the future. That saves

00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:04.159
them money and puts their customers at risk,

00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:06.820
of course, but that serves their corporate interest.

00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:11.139
NVIDIA is silent on their own idea of safety,

00:38:11.260 --> 00:38:14.800
so who knows what they're really up against.

00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:20.880
Quoting again, the software development kit includes

00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:24.179
safety -certified support for NVIDIA CUDA and

00:38:24.179 --> 00:38:27.880
TensorRT. It provides blah, blah, blah, open

00:38:27.880 --> 00:38:30.280
source framework for high performance, blah,

00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:34.760
blah, blah. But it's silent on whom other than

00:38:34.760 --> 00:38:37.960
NVIDIA or what are the definition of safety might

00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:41.199
be the basis of the safety certification. So,

00:38:41.219 --> 00:38:43.960
you know, Anthony, did you say, did you tell

00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:47.059
them that their safety is okay? I keep trying

00:38:47.059 --> 00:38:49.420
to email them, but they just keep bouncing back.

00:38:50.019 --> 00:38:52.079
Well, it must have some other basis, but they're

00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:56.239
not clear on what that basis is. They go on to

00:38:56.239 --> 00:38:59.800
say, Halos SDK provides the runtime building

00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:02.980
blocks that blah, blah, blah. Application level

00:39:02.980 --> 00:39:05.380
scheduler for predictable timing, blah, blah,

00:39:05.420 --> 00:39:09.420
blah. Moves data without added latency, blah,

00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:12.039
blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah. A lot of that.

00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:16.599
So delivering the foundation for highly reliable

00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:19.960
and low latency automotive applications. But

00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:22.519
it introduces lots of single point failures.

00:39:23.210 --> 00:39:29.449
And I'm not sure exactly whether this is possible

00:39:29.449 --> 00:39:31.929
or not. But, you know, how low is the latency?

00:39:32.269 --> 00:39:35.510
Latency is only one factor in the safety and

00:39:35.510 --> 00:39:39.250
not the limiting factor in the OEDR, which is

00:39:39.250 --> 00:39:43.369
the object or event detection and response. Because

00:39:43.369 --> 00:39:46.590
that's OEDR is the whole loop from detecting

00:39:46.590 --> 00:39:49.329
the problem to sending the problem back to the

00:39:49.329 --> 00:39:52.960
remote center, getting the response. then putting

00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:56.199
it into the car and actually responding. Nobody

00:39:56.199 --> 00:39:58.539
has ever shown a system that has a human in the

00:39:58.539 --> 00:40:02.760
loop like that can respond in time to solve an

00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:05.079
operational problem when the car is running down

00:40:05.079 --> 00:40:12.300
the road at highway speed. They say that Halo

00:40:12.300 --> 00:40:16.300
AOS can be combined with end -to -end AI models

00:40:16.300 --> 00:40:19.820
for which explainability and transparency are

00:40:19.820 --> 00:40:23.889
essential. Well, that's good. But the problem

00:40:23.889 --> 00:40:29.269
is that AI is never explainable or transparent.

00:40:30.389 --> 00:40:35.150
When you go into AI, you're abandoning human

00:40:35.150 --> 00:40:38.469
understanding of what the logic is between the

00:40:38.469 --> 00:40:41.329
input and the output, because that's intrinsic

00:40:41.329 --> 00:40:45.670
to AI, right? So this is a very interesting statement.

00:40:46.150 --> 00:40:51.519
That's me every Friday night. Yeah. Then they

00:40:51.519 --> 00:40:53.960
say the HALO -AS is certified to automotive safety

00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:57.559
standards. Well, that's good because those standards

00:40:57.559 --> 00:41:01.219
don't exist. It says it's audited, documented,

00:41:01.219 --> 00:41:03.320
and proven to behave predictably under fault

00:41:03.320 --> 00:41:06.380
conditions. Well, audited by whom against what

00:41:06.380 --> 00:41:09.980
standard and under what fault conditions? Inquiring

00:41:09.980 --> 00:41:14.280
minds want to know. But they implicitly agree

00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:17.619
that that's not sufficient because they've introduced

00:41:17.619 --> 00:41:20.820
the idea of a hypervisor. which is a specialized

00:41:20.820 --> 00:41:24.039
software layer that isolates safety -critical

00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:26.579
functions so failures can't reach vehicle controls.

00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:32.599
What? Well, yes. What they're saying is... But

00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:34.840
it fails all the time. We're going to catch it

00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:38.260
before it happens every time. Yeah, yeah. And

00:41:38.260 --> 00:41:41.559
it's deterministic, which means it's not the

00:41:41.559 --> 00:41:43.800
AI, right? So you know exactly what's going to...

00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:46.059
You're able to find out exactly what's going

00:41:46.059 --> 00:41:48.769
to happen between the input and the output. It's

00:41:48.769 --> 00:41:52.170
like an AI babysitter. It's like an AI babysitter,

00:41:52.250 --> 00:41:54.949
yeah. And so does it really work? I don't know.

00:41:54.969 --> 00:41:57.070
But if it does, this is something that should

00:41:57.070 --> 00:42:01.949
be in every car to act as a supervisor for stupid

00:42:01.949 --> 00:42:05.230
things or mistakes that the human operators might

00:42:05.230 --> 00:42:08.030
introduce. Oh, my gosh. I think it should be

00:42:08.030 --> 00:42:11.510
there to... correct mistakes that stupid AI introduces

00:42:11.510 --> 00:42:13.829
too, right? Absolutely, yeah. We should have

00:42:13.829 --> 00:42:16.969
the same thing online on LLM to prevent them

00:42:16.969 --> 00:42:19.349
from saying dumb shit, which happens constantly.

00:42:19.789 --> 00:42:21.829
It's good for the goose and good for the gander.

00:42:21.989 --> 00:42:24.969
Yeah, but then every car would be in limp home

00:42:24.969 --> 00:42:31.250
mode all the time. So I want to just dive into

00:42:31.250 --> 00:42:34.170
numbers. I won't do too much of this, but they've

00:42:34.170 --> 00:42:36.630
got a block diagram that shows 18 logical blocks.

00:42:37.179 --> 00:42:39.500
You add on a number of sensors, a reasonable

00:42:39.500 --> 00:42:42.179
number of sensors and some electromechanical

00:42:42.179 --> 00:42:44.679
components, failures and all that stuff. And

00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:47.659
assuming that they've built it to be too failure

00:42:47.659 --> 00:42:51.940
tolerant, which is reasonable for cars, you end

00:42:51.940 --> 00:42:54.699
up with a number of combinations that you would

00:42:54.699 --> 00:42:59.380
like to test of around 20 ,000. It's not financially

00:42:59.380 --> 00:43:04.880
possible to actually validate the safety response

00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:09.380
of the software. Even for NVIDIA. Even for NVIDIA,

00:43:09.500 --> 00:43:14.699
yeah. For more than one or two cases, and probably

00:43:14.699 --> 00:43:17.539
not even that, because if you validate something,

00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:21.239
what you need to do is verify through statistical

00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:26.480
tests that the response that you're going to

00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:31.960
get is suitable in all circumstances that you

00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:36.239
would plausibly encounter. Think of the simplest

00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:38.659
one, which is steering, right? Steering would

00:43:38.659 --> 00:43:44.019
involve ice, mud, snow. It would involve a rainstorm

00:43:44.019 --> 00:43:47.820
after a long hot spell where the oil leaks out

00:43:47.820 --> 00:43:51.159
of the road. Just so much. Locusts. If you've

00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:54.679
got 20 ,000 of these, you're never going to do

00:43:54.679 --> 00:43:58.019
that. And if you have AI involved in the control

00:43:58.019 --> 00:44:01.360
response, then you can't have a deterministic

00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:04.820
study that says we've done all this. All you

00:44:04.820 --> 00:44:07.480
can do is just throw situations at it and see

00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:09.840
what happens. Can you, can you simulate based

00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:13.500
on real world data? Oh, look who's setting up

00:44:13.500 --> 00:44:17.199
a softball for Fred. So the point of all this

00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:22.059
number mumble is softball. He skipped it. Mike's

00:44:22.059 --> 00:44:24.260
question was so softball as you just ignored

00:44:24.260 --> 00:44:29.059
it. I'm sorry. I didn't try your, it doesn't

00:44:29.059 --> 00:44:31.960
matter. It doesn't matter. All right. So anyway,

00:44:32.750 --> 00:44:34.690
The relationship between this and edge cases

00:44:34.690 --> 00:44:38.449
is that for edge cases, people talk about a long

00:44:38.449 --> 00:44:41.250
tail of probability, and that's absolutely correct.

00:44:41.969 --> 00:44:44.849
But the reason it's such a long tail is because

00:44:44.849 --> 00:44:47.809
you've got all these underlying safety issues

00:44:47.809 --> 00:44:50.409
that have never been studied, that have never

00:44:50.409 --> 00:44:53.869
been validated, that are going to pop up. And

00:44:53.869 --> 00:44:56.929
if you've got 20 ,000 some odd circumstances,

00:44:57.190 --> 00:44:59.710
each with a very low probability of happening.

00:45:01.139 --> 00:45:04.219
In not very much time, you're going to find some

00:45:04.219 --> 00:45:06.500
of them are going to happen. Fred, you clearly

00:45:06.500 --> 00:45:08.739
don't subscribe to Kathy Wood's newsletter where

00:45:08.739 --> 00:45:12.199
she has said that Tesla has over a billion miles

00:45:12.199 --> 00:45:14.340
recorded so they understand every possibility

00:45:14.340 --> 00:45:17.219
that could ever possibly happen. I might take

00:45:17.219 --> 00:45:19.199
some issue with that. There is something, by

00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:23.099
the way, called a state in the industry called

00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:25.360
a failure modes and effect criticality analysis,

00:45:25.619 --> 00:45:29.860
which is exactly. something that addresses this

00:45:29.860 --> 00:45:31.500
situation of trying to figure out what the hell

00:45:31.500 --> 00:45:34.840
is going to happen when you have a problem. I've

00:45:34.840 --> 00:45:39.920
never seen a FAMICA touted as part of the safety

00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:43.219
qualification process for any of these AVs. I

00:45:43.219 --> 00:45:45.420
don't believe it's ever happened. I don't think

00:45:45.420 --> 00:45:50.039
the AVs do any criticality analysis or any systematic

00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:53.980
analysis for even one of the likely failure modes.

00:45:54.280 --> 00:45:56.800
I think they just, you know. Put the car on the

00:45:56.800 --> 00:45:58.920
road and see if it steers straight. And that's

00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:01.579
good enough. Did they do that after they start

00:46:01.579 --> 00:46:05.539
running past school buses and into floods? Hard

00:46:05.539 --> 00:46:08.659
to know exactly what the sequence is. But so

00:46:08.659 --> 00:46:12.000
I'm going to conclude by saying NVIDIA is not

00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:15.000
immune to reality, no matter how slick the software.

00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:18.739
Well said. Look at that. But Fred, I got to point

00:46:18.739 --> 00:46:22.599
out that the puff, the thing you're reading from

00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:27.239
NVIDIA, that was not designed for. That was written

00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:30.280
for a tech journalist who got a C in calculus,

00:46:30.500 --> 00:46:32.920
who had a subscription to Scientific American

00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:36.559
and Popular Mechanics and has a... This is hitting

00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:40.159
too close to home. You see, that's where geofencing

00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:43.719
comes in. They should have geofenced that away

00:46:43.719 --> 00:46:48.659
from the engineers. I agree. Let's jump into

00:46:48.659 --> 00:46:50.480
a... Before we hit recalls, we're going to jump

00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:52.679
into a story that Michael and I wanted to touch

00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:54.980
on last week. And it's one that you don't think

00:46:54.980 --> 00:46:58.380
about. And it is from this is from safety research

00:46:58.380 --> 00:47:01.440
and strategies. And it's titled aftermarket car

00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:05.139
bling continues to inflict harm. Now, this is

00:47:05.139 --> 00:47:07.639
not something that I think I've ever thought

00:47:07.639 --> 00:47:10.579
about. And I think I've seen it. The only time

00:47:10.579 --> 00:47:13.099
I've seen it was with like a teenage girl where

00:47:13.099 --> 00:47:15.519
they put in like bedazzled little stones on their

00:47:15.519 --> 00:47:18.159
steering wheel and personalizing it. It's adorable.

00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:20.760
And you think, oh, that's OK. But you don't realize

00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:23.730
you're putting these little stones. over these

00:47:23.730 --> 00:47:27.130
little plastic beads or whatnot over your part

00:47:27.130 --> 00:47:28.789
of the steering wheel that deploys when your

00:47:28.789 --> 00:47:30.710
airbag comes out. So these are no longer cute

00:47:30.710 --> 00:47:33.570
little things. These become missiles of death.

00:47:34.590 --> 00:47:37.469
So the quick takeaway, and I'm sure, Michael,

00:47:37.530 --> 00:47:40.690
you'll have something to add, is don't mess with

00:47:40.690 --> 00:47:43.230
your safety systems. Don't put any stickers,

00:47:43.409 --> 00:47:46.670
stones, anything. Nothing. Never touch them.

00:47:46.929 --> 00:47:50.989
Highly engineered for your safety. Fair? Yeah,

00:47:50.989 --> 00:47:53.369
I mean, that's a good consumer warning side of

00:47:53.369 --> 00:47:55.730
things. I mean, I think what we're looking and

00:47:55.730 --> 00:48:00.630
hoping for is that the folks who are in charge

00:48:00.630 --> 00:48:03.349
of selling these things to Americans are going

00:48:03.349 --> 00:48:05.190
to take responsibility. You know, we've seen

00:48:05.190 --> 00:48:09.150
NHTSA warn, I believe, at least twice, warn consumers

00:48:09.150 --> 00:48:14.309
about this issue. But NHTSA faces a lot of headwinds

00:48:14.309 --> 00:48:16.349
in trying to regulate this behavior, mainly because

00:48:16.349 --> 00:48:20.969
these are aftermarket. They're not even necessarily

00:48:20.969 --> 00:48:23.949
hard points, right? I mean, whether or not this

00:48:23.949 --> 00:48:27.130
is even regulatable by NHTSA is a question. Now,

00:48:27.130 --> 00:48:29.710
what NHTSA has done is reach out to Amazon and

00:48:29.710 --> 00:48:35.070
other online merchants to try to get them to

00:48:35.070 --> 00:48:37.650
cooperate in not selling these to consumers.

00:48:37.809 --> 00:48:42.329
And they've been met with some varied compliance.

00:48:42.570 --> 00:48:45.530
Ultimately, the problem is these things are still

00:48:45.530 --> 00:48:49.360
all over. the internet and available to anyone

00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:52.059
and a lot of people you know they're not being

00:48:52.059 --> 00:48:54.280
warned when they buy these things and make you

00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:57.179
know even if they are what's the point right

00:48:57.179 --> 00:49:01.039
like you know we've seen we've seen recalls from

00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:03.880
you know ornaments that the manufacturers installed

00:49:03.880 --> 00:49:05.659
their steering wheels right i think there was

00:49:05.659 --> 00:49:09.860
a recall on a nissan or on a nissan's shiny little

00:49:09.860 --> 00:49:14.510
chrome plated uh badge ornament in the middle

00:49:14.510 --> 00:49:17.050
of the airbag for problems. And that's one of,

00:49:17.130 --> 00:49:20.309
I think, you know, two or three or more other

00:49:20.309 --> 00:49:23.210
recalls around that issue. So ultimately this

00:49:23.210 --> 00:49:25.949
comes down to, you know, NHTSA has the authority

00:49:25.949 --> 00:49:30.090
to regulate OEMs, the cars and aftermarket parts

00:49:30.090 --> 00:49:33.730
that create a safety condition in vehicles. But

00:49:33.730 --> 00:49:36.969
when it comes to these like random consumer things

00:49:36.969 --> 00:49:40.980
that you can buy to decorate your car. they don't

00:49:40.980 --> 00:49:43.059
really have the ability to go after, you know,

00:49:43.059 --> 00:49:46.860
a manufacturer in China who's making jewels that

00:49:46.860 --> 00:49:50.219
stick on your steering wheel. So ultimately,

00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:54.099
I think corporate responsibility is going to

00:49:54.099 --> 00:49:56.440
be necessary in this area, which is why it's

00:49:56.440 --> 00:49:59.099
a scary area, because corporate responsibility,

00:49:59.099 --> 00:50:01.480
you know, may or may not exist, depending on

00:50:01.480 --> 00:50:04.460
who's the CEO and who's in charge of the government

00:50:04.460 --> 00:50:07.099
at the moment. For those lucky people who have

00:50:07.099 --> 00:50:09.889
not experienced an airbag deployment, It's a

00:50:09.889 --> 00:50:12.610
lot like getting punched in the face. So if you

00:50:12.610 --> 00:50:15.750
would prefer being punched in the face by brass

00:50:15.750 --> 00:50:18.789
knuckles rather than an open hand, go ahead and

00:50:18.789 --> 00:50:24.289
put a sticker on your steering wheel. But that's

00:50:24.289 --> 00:50:26.730
really the way to think about the consequences

00:50:26.730 --> 00:50:28.989
of putting this bling on your steering wheel.

00:50:29.130 --> 00:50:32.449
And by the way, this is why we have to ban Chinese

00:50:32.449 --> 00:50:34.789
cars because, you know, Chinese are out to get

00:50:34.789 --> 00:50:38.440
us. Fair enough. Before we jump into recalls,

00:50:38.440 --> 00:50:41.260
as I sit here in the sweltering heat, I'd like

00:50:41.260 --> 00:50:45.559
to warn listeners that July is the deadliest

00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:48.579
month for children left in cars. Last year, 31

00:50:48.579 --> 00:50:51.280
children died nationwide from vehicular heat

00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:54.949
stroke. In 2026 so far, eight deaths have been

00:50:54.949 --> 00:50:56.690
reported. We've talked about this in the past.

00:50:56.710 --> 00:51:00.210
It's nine now. It's not. Ah, gee. And this week's

00:51:00.210 --> 00:51:02.550
going to be hot. Half of America is going to

00:51:02.550 --> 00:51:05.030
be over 100 degrees. And when that happens, the

00:51:05.030 --> 00:51:07.530
higher the temperature, the quicker the temperature

00:51:07.530 --> 00:51:09.670
is going to reach deadly levels in cars. And

00:51:09.670 --> 00:51:14.710
so, you know. And while we're on this, we want

00:51:14.710 --> 00:51:17.969
to wish Janet Fennell, who was injured in a car

00:51:17.969 --> 00:51:20.829
crash, all the best and a quick recovery. Janet's

00:51:20.829 --> 00:51:24.190
been all over this issue for a long time. So

00:51:24.190 --> 00:51:27.250
I think you're listening, Janet, and we're thinking

00:51:27.250 --> 00:51:31.289
of you. Yes, we are, Jeanette. We really, really

00:51:31.289 --> 00:51:34.469
hope that you have a great recovery. And this

00:51:34.469 --> 00:51:38.769
issue is, I want to point out that the article

00:51:38.769 --> 00:51:41.469
that we're looking at here, I believe it's from

00:51:41.469 --> 00:51:44.610
USA Today. It's Detroit Free Press. Detroit Free

00:51:44.610 --> 00:51:47.949
Press, published, I think. Oh, yes, USA, yeah,

00:51:48.010 --> 00:51:54.039
okay. It really, you know, it glosses over a

00:51:54.039 --> 00:51:56.659
really important issue. You know, it goes through

00:51:56.659 --> 00:51:59.280
a lot of things, you know, advice for parents

00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:01.500
and goes through, you know, how the heat can

00:52:01.500 --> 00:52:05.179
climb fast and all of that. But, you know, in

00:52:05.179 --> 00:52:07.199
the end, it says innovations in vehicle technology

00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:09.420
help prevent hot car deaths. Automakers have

00:52:09.420 --> 00:52:11.500
added rear occupant alert systems to cars in

00:52:11.500 --> 00:52:13.260
response to the rising number of kids and pets

00:52:13.260 --> 00:52:16.500
left unsupervised. How it works when a car is

00:52:16.500 --> 00:52:18.960
shifted to park, rear occupant alarms advise

00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:22.960
drivers to check the back seat. If sensors identify

00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:26.239
anything or something there, rear seat reminder

00:52:26.239 --> 00:52:28.199
systems are available from several manufacturers.

00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:32.179
Right now, that's not what happens. Right now,

00:52:32.340 --> 00:52:35.119
the vast majority of vehicles that have any sort

00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:37.280
of technology in this area are door sequencing

00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:41.260
alarms. Essentially, you put the car in park

00:52:41.260 --> 00:52:44.300
if you opened your rear door before you got in

00:52:44.300 --> 00:52:48.860
the car or while the car was operating and maybe

00:52:48.860 --> 00:52:53.269
parked. with the engine on and you let let a

00:52:53.269 --> 00:52:55.949
child into the car then when you put the vehicle

00:52:55.949 --> 00:52:57.909
in park and get out of the vehicle again it's

00:52:57.909 --> 00:53:01.349
going to um give you an alarm saying hey you

00:53:01.349 --> 00:53:02.929
open the back door you may have left some of

00:53:02.929 --> 00:53:06.150
the back seat what they're not doing right now

00:53:06.150 --> 00:53:08.389
is actually sensing a human being in the back

00:53:08.389 --> 00:53:12.329
seat of the car and um doing anything to prevent

00:53:12.329 --> 00:53:15.210
prevent that situation from happening automakers

00:53:15.210 --> 00:53:21.519
have completely strongly resisted installing

00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:25.739
child presence detection in vehicles in order

00:53:25.739 --> 00:53:29.679
to prevent this problem. And instead, they've

00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:32.059
gone with a very cheap solution, does that sound

00:53:32.059 --> 00:53:34.639
like the industry to you, of door sequencing

00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:37.219
software that basically just identifies when

00:53:37.219 --> 00:53:39.159
a door's been opened in the back and then gives

00:53:39.159 --> 00:53:41.519
the driver an alarm when they park the car, which

00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:45.179
is obviously... Not even remotely perfect or

00:53:45.179 --> 00:53:49.880
as close to the efficacy of having an actual

00:53:49.880 --> 00:53:53.619
child presence detector in the vehicle, which

00:53:53.619 --> 00:54:00.000
is what the Infrastructure Act in 2021 required

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:02.920
NHTSA to put in place. They are dragging their

00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:07.659
feet. They're saying that manufacturers aren't

00:54:07.659 --> 00:54:10.159
putting out enough of this technology for them

00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:13.429
to properly. regulate it essentially you know

00:54:13.429 --> 00:54:17.110
NHTSA requires something to study in order to

00:54:17.110 --> 00:54:19.469
put out minimum safety standards and right now

00:54:19.469 --> 00:54:21.730
I believe there's only two manufacturers that

00:54:21.730 --> 00:54:25.469
are putting any type of child presence monitoring

00:54:25.469 --> 00:54:29.369
on their vehicles and so Essentially, it's created

00:54:29.369 --> 00:54:33.349
this quandary where if the industry doesn't put

00:54:33.349 --> 00:54:36.929
safety equipment in their vehicles, NHTSA has

00:54:36.929 --> 00:54:39.389
no way to evaluate it, and consumers may never

00:54:39.389 --> 00:54:42.090
see it, which gives the industry far too much

00:54:42.090 --> 00:54:44.650
power in determining the future of safety, in

00:54:44.650 --> 00:54:47.329
my opinion. Oh, my God. You're blowing my mind.

00:54:47.389 --> 00:54:49.949
There's so much just horrible with what you just

00:54:49.949 --> 00:54:52.900
said. Not that you're horrible, but… Well, I

00:54:52.900 --> 00:54:54.360
mean, that's essentially what's dragged this

00:54:54.360 --> 00:54:58.199
out, right? Five years after NHTSA hasn't done

00:54:58.199 --> 00:55:01.340
a damn thing to move a rulemaking forward for

00:55:01.340 --> 00:55:03.420
minimum safety standards on detecting children

00:55:03.420 --> 00:55:06.400
in cars. And it's because the industry doesn't

00:55:06.400 --> 00:55:09.239
want to invest in the child occupant presence

00:55:09.239 --> 00:55:13.579
detection. And by, you know, this is where I

00:55:13.579 --> 00:55:15.440
think, where I'm concerned about things like

00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:20.900
collusion within the industry, right? As an industry

00:55:20.900 --> 00:55:23.260
as a whole, with the exception of maybe two manufacturers,

00:55:23.559 --> 00:55:25.579
they're resisting putting this technology into

00:55:25.579 --> 00:55:27.400
their vehicles, which means NHTSA is not going

00:55:27.400 --> 00:55:29.500
to be able to put a rule out on it to mandate

00:55:29.500 --> 00:55:35.159
minimum standards for all manufacturers. So that's

00:55:35.159 --> 00:55:37.579
a tactic that I don't think is limited to the

00:55:37.579 --> 00:55:40.360
child's occupant presence sensors. I think it's

00:55:40.360 --> 00:55:45.039
something that... That we're going to see a lot

00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:47.960
of in the areas of autonomy. So what I'm learning

00:55:47.960 --> 00:55:50.699
a lot from this show is that the industry has

00:55:50.699 --> 00:55:53.659
a solution to a lot of safety issues. They don't

00:55:53.659 --> 00:55:56.760
want to do it. Instead, they want to blame the

00:55:56.760 --> 00:56:00.739
driver. It's the same thing as LIDAR and Tesla

00:56:00.739 --> 00:56:04.460
in some respects. And it's your fault. You bought

00:56:04.460 --> 00:56:08.039
this product. We sold you. And it's your fault

00:56:08.039 --> 00:56:09.980
if something goes wrong. Wells, we could have

00:56:09.980 --> 00:56:11.719
added in a whole bunch of things to not make

00:56:11.719 --> 00:56:12.900
it your fault. It's your fault, even though we

00:56:12.900 --> 00:56:15.840
could have spent $200 on LIDAR that could save.

00:56:16.099 --> 00:56:19.300
Right. Or we could have spent $30 on a child

00:56:19.300 --> 00:56:22.219
presence system that would have prevented a child's

00:56:22.219 --> 00:56:25.380
death. While noting that the automotive industry

00:56:25.380 --> 00:56:29.920
is squandering billions on autonomous vehicles,

00:56:30.179 --> 00:56:33.699
also fund an organization ironically called the

00:56:33.699 --> 00:56:36.659
Automotive Alliance for Innovation. Which is

00:56:36.659 --> 00:56:40.280
dedicated to stopping innovation in automotive.

00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:45.199
I would say it's dedicated to promoting profitable

00:56:45.199 --> 00:56:48.380
innovations for the auto industry. Yeah. You

00:56:48.380 --> 00:56:50.840
want to play Tetris while you drive? Hey, that's

00:56:50.840 --> 00:56:53.239
our innovation. Yeah. I mean, if you think about

00:56:53.239 --> 00:56:54.960
this in terms of how much do you think automakers

00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:57.500
have spent on convenience features over the past

00:56:57.500 --> 00:57:01.559
10 years versus safety features like child presence

00:57:01.559 --> 00:57:04.380
detection, you start to get an idea of, you know.

00:57:04.619 --> 00:57:06.760
why I may be a little cynical on this. You can't

00:57:06.760 --> 00:57:10.760
take away my heated cup holder. And with that,

00:57:10.780 --> 00:57:14.960
let's go to recalls. First up, Hyundai 96 ,310

00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:19.039
vehicles, the 2025 -2026 Hyundai Tucson plug

00:57:19.039 --> 00:57:24.000
-in hybrid, the 2025 Tucson hybrid, and then

00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:26.719
just the regular Tucson, and the instrument panel

00:57:26.719 --> 00:57:28.960
display in the subject vehicles may intermittently

00:57:28.960 --> 00:57:32.030
reboot during vehicle operation. potentially

00:57:32.030 --> 00:57:36.190
resulting in this is becoming our new uh rearview

00:57:36.190 --> 00:57:39.349
camera yeah this is now we're really starting

00:57:39.349 --> 00:57:43.469
to see a jump and the the screen display is failing

00:57:43.469 --> 00:57:46.889
um which is very similar to what we saw in the

00:57:46.889 --> 00:57:49.889
rearview but this is more frightening because

00:57:49.889 --> 00:57:52.829
this is your instrument panel like this is like

00:57:52.829 --> 00:57:54.929
well your rearview camera i can turn around and

00:57:54.929 --> 00:57:57.050
look whereas this is i'm driving like what's

00:57:57.050 --> 00:58:00.320
my speed now ah Yeah, you don't have an alternate

00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:02.460
speedometer like you have mirrors, right? Right.

00:58:02.460 --> 00:58:04.280
Oh, my God. But they want to get rid of mirrors,

00:58:04.380 --> 00:58:08.539
too, man. So what happens here? You know, it

00:58:08.539 --> 00:58:13.559
takes away their fuel gauge, too. Oh, boy. What's

00:58:13.559 --> 00:58:18.260
the remedy here? It's software. It's always software.

00:58:18.519 --> 00:58:20.579
They're basically adding software that's going

00:58:20.579 --> 00:58:24.920
to prevent the instrument panel cluster from

00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:29.309
resetting while you're driving. owners should

00:58:29.309 --> 00:58:32.110
have that i think it's two months away late august

00:58:32.110 --> 00:58:33.610
i think owners will be hearing about that one

00:58:33.610 --> 00:58:37.989
oh boy next up general motors 26 ,541 vehicles

00:58:37.989 --> 00:58:41.230
the 2026 chevrolet express 2025 chevrolet express

00:58:41.230 --> 00:58:47.230
2025 gmc savannah the 2026 savannah gm has decided

00:58:47.230 --> 00:58:49.150
that a defect which released to motor vehicle

00:58:49.150 --> 00:58:53.210
safety may exist in certain these vehicles they

00:58:53.210 --> 00:58:55.349
may have a steering gear assembly with a nut

00:58:55.349 --> 00:58:59.440
that was not properly tightened Oh, so basically

00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:01.460
you're driving along this loose nut and you lose

00:59:01.460 --> 00:59:04.679
steering control. And is it just because you

00:59:04.679 --> 00:59:08.860
need someone to tighten the thing? Yeah, essentially

00:59:08.860 --> 00:59:12.679
you're going to bring it in and the dealer is

00:59:12.679 --> 00:59:16.059
going to inspect it and tighten the nut. They

00:59:16.059 --> 00:59:18.659
may replace the steering gear assembly if there's

00:59:18.659 --> 00:59:21.460
been damage. I think that's going to be rare.

00:59:21.579 --> 00:59:24.260
You've probably noticed if you've had damage

00:59:24.260 --> 00:59:27.989
to your steering gear assembly. But who knows?

00:59:28.090 --> 00:59:30.730
Get it fixed, people. Yeah, that's another one

00:59:30.730 --> 00:59:33.030
that's coming in mid -August in this case. All

00:59:33.030 --> 00:59:37.630
right. Toyota up next, 20 ,991 vehicles. The

00:59:37.630 --> 00:59:42.110
2026 Subaru Solterra, the Toyota BZ, and the

00:59:42.110 --> 00:59:45.929
Lexus RZ. These battery electric vehicles are

00:59:45.929 --> 00:59:47.269
equipped with a battery that supplies electricity

00:59:47.269 --> 00:59:50.010
to the drivetrain. It's controlled by an ECU

00:59:50.010 --> 00:59:52.530
that has two integrated circuits where one could

00:59:52.530 --> 00:59:54.719
immediately override. Data in the same memory

00:59:54.719 --> 00:59:56.940
address location that the other I just written.

00:59:57.340 --> 01:00:00.280
This could run into an EV system malfunction.

01:00:00.860 --> 01:00:03.579
Oh, wait. So while power steering and power assist

01:00:03.579 --> 01:00:05.719
braking continue to operate, the electric drive

01:00:05.719 --> 01:00:10.539
system will shut down. So this is a real big

01:00:10.539 --> 01:00:14.480
software screw -up. It's overwriting itself.

01:00:14.699 --> 01:00:18.579
That's a mess. Overwriting data at the same memory

01:00:18.579 --> 01:00:24.199
address. You know. I think that you're just going

01:00:24.199 --> 01:00:25.820
to get another software update here if you're

01:00:25.820 --> 01:00:29.480
an owner. Then this is Toyota and Subaru. I guess

01:00:29.480 --> 01:00:32.679
they've combined to make the battery behind these

01:00:32.679 --> 01:00:35.940
vehicles. Yeah, well, Toyota owns 20 % of Subaru,

01:00:36.059 --> 01:00:38.800
so there's a lot of... Parts and components being

01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:41.099
exchanged between the companies. Cross -contamination.

01:00:41.099 --> 01:00:42.440
And that's another one that you'll hear about

01:00:42.440 --> 01:00:46.219
in mid -August for owners. Up next, ready for

01:00:46.219 --> 01:00:50.380
it? The reigning heavyweight champion, weighing

01:00:50.380 --> 01:00:54.639
3 billion recalls with their favorite automobile

01:00:54.639 --> 01:00:57.920
being made in China, not by them, but by their

01:00:57.920 --> 01:01:06.280
competitors. It's Ford 741 ,195 vehicles. The

01:01:06.280 --> 01:01:11.019
2021 F -150, the 2020 to 2021 Lincoln Aviator,

01:01:11.139 --> 01:01:16.559
the 2020 to 2021 Explorer, Navigator, a 2018

01:01:16.559 --> 01:01:20.800
to 2021 Expedition. Effective vehicles may experience

01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:23.519
temporary engagement of their transmission parking

01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:26.760
paw while the vehicle is in motion when certain

01:01:26.760 --> 01:01:29.619
shifts are commanded by the transmission, potentially

01:01:29.619 --> 01:01:33.000
damming park system components. So I'm driving

01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:35.260
along and all of a sudden my automatic transition

01:01:35.260 --> 01:01:38.300
decides to go into park? Is that? No. No? Okay.

01:01:38.739 --> 01:01:43.380
So you were driving and you park. Okay. And you

01:01:43.380 --> 01:01:45.840
get out and your vehicle rolls over you. Oh,

01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:50.440
God! These are rollaways. So essentially the

01:01:50.440 --> 01:01:55.320
vehicle, I guess, thinks it's in park and everything's

01:01:55.320 --> 01:01:58.019
good, but it's not. Once again, this is going

01:01:58.019 --> 01:02:02.170
to be a software update. To prevent the transmission

01:02:02.170 --> 01:02:04.969
from commanding those shifts, which may result

01:02:04.969 --> 01:02:07.550
in temporary engagement of the transmission parking

01:02:07.550 --> 01:02:10.409
pole while the vehicle is in motion. I don't

01:02:10.409 --> 01:02:12.170
think this should be a software update. I think

01:02:12.170 --> 01:02:14.809
this should be a therapist update. So why did

01:02:14.809 --> 01:02:17.929
you buy this Ford vehicle? What were you planning

01:02:17.929 --> 01:02:21.429
to accomplish? Well, because J .D. Power said

01:02:21.429 --> 01:02:25.210
it's high quality. But that person was soon run

01:02:25.210 --> 01:02:29.699
over by their Explorer. Self -limiting process.

01:02:29.960 --> 01:02:32.380
Oh, boy. This one looks also if you're an owner

01:02:32.380 --> 01:02:34.760
of one of these vehicles, this is going to be

01:02:34.760 --> 01:02:38.320
a long term process. So you need to be really

01:02:38.320 --> 01:02:40.719
careful with these vehicles. In the meantime,

01:02:40.880 --> 01:02:42.860
it doesn't look like owners are even going to

01:02:42.860 --> 01:02:45.900
get notification until next April. Oh, April

01:02:45.900 --> 01:02:49.380
2027. Oh, yeah. And they're not going to have

01:02:49.380 --> 01:02:51.480
they're going to do it in a phase recall. So

01:02:51.480 --> 01:02:55.380
this one's going to take a while. So what? Do

01:02:55.380 --> 01:02:57.820
we recommend people do? Because the F -150 is

01:02:57.820 --> 01:02:59.420
the best -selling car in the country. Use the

01:02:59.420 --> 01:03:02.219
parking brake. Use the parking brake. I don't

01:03:02.219 --> 01:03:04.840
know if all of them have a parking brake, like

01:03:04.840 --> 01:03:08.679
a manual one. Yeah, you do. You've got a parking

01:03:08.679 --> 01:03:11.440
brake somewhere. Okay. You need to find it. But

01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:15.280
remember, putting the vehicle in park locks the

01:03:15.280 --> 01:03:19.039
transmission if it's working properly. Okay.

01:03:19.079 --> 01:03:21.929
Using the emergency brake locks the wheels. Okay.

01:03:22.070 --> 01:03:24.329
So they're completely different independent systems.

01:03:25.269 --> 01:03:28.849
So the answer is use the parking brake. Okay.

01:03:29.269 --> 01:03:32.650
Or find out where it is, Anthony. Yeah. And even

01:03:32.650 --> 01:03:34.730
in the description. If you read the user's manual,

01:03:34.889 --> 01:03:37.789
you'll often find a suitable, but nevermind.

01:03:38.090 --> 01:03:40.230
Yeah. In the description of the safety risk,

01:03:40.349 --> 01:03:42.650
they say, which would give owners a clue as to

01:03:42.650 --> 01:03:47.929
what's going on here and what they can do. They

01:03:47.929 --> 01:03:52.239
say that the parking brake. If it's not applied,

01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:56.420
the transmission may fail in this situation.

01:03:59.159 --> 01:04:04.079
So use the parking brake is the proper recommendation

01:04:04.079 --> 01:04:07.480
for owners who are worried about this. Or read

01:04:07.480 --> 01:04:10.199
the owner's manual, whichever comes first. Parking

01:04:10.199 --> 01:04:12.699
brake wins. With that, ladies and gentlemen,

01:04:12.780 --> 01:04:15.619
I would like to quote from Diamond David Lee

01:04:15.619 --> 01:04:18.960
Roth and stay frosty. It's very hot outside.

01:04:20.650 --> 01:04:24.510
And try not to melt. And be safe out there on

01:04:24.510 --> 01:04:26.670
the roads. And drive like everybody else on the

01:04:26.670 --> 01:04:29.170
road around you is your grandmother that you

01:04:29.170 --> 01:04:31.849
love and is fictitious and baked you pies as

01:04:31.849 --> 01:04:34.889
a kid and was really wonderful. And so let them

01:04:34.889 --> 01:04:36.849
go. No need, especially in these hot temperatures,

01:04:36.909 --> 01:04:39.570
to flip them off every five minutes. Like, I

01:04:39.570 --> 01:04:43.670
want to. Till next week. Bye -bye. Bye -bye.

01:04:43.750 --> 01:04:47.530
Thanks, everybody. For more information visit

01:04:47.530 --> 01:04:50.250
www .autosafety .org