WEBVTT 00:00:01.999 --> 00:00:05.559 You're listening to There Auto Be A Law, the 00:00:05.559 --> 00:00:08.240 Center for Auto Safety podcast with Executive 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:11.720 Director Michael Brooks, Chief Engineer Fred 00:00:11.720 --> 00:00:15.640 Perkins, and hosted by me, Anthony Cimino. For 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:18.300 over 50 years, the Center for Auto Safety has 00:00:18.300 --> 00:00:25.660 worked to make cars safer. Yeah, welcome to the 00:00:25.660 --> 00:00:27.320 Center for Auto Safety podcast. We're going to 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:29.800 talk about the nutritional benefits of tofu. 00:00:31.050 --> 00:00:34.710 which is neither here nor there. But today is 00:00:34.710 --> 00:00:38.509 Wednesday, May 20th. And if you're eating tofu, 00:00:38.710 --> 00:00:41.789 just don't do it while driving the vehicle. It 00:00:41.789 --> 00:00:44.090 makes a good breakfast scramble. That's for sure. 00:00:44.289 --> 00:00:46.770 Again, but if you're eating it while driving, 00:00:46.829 --> 00:00:49.390 you could become the breakfast scramble. Yeah, 00:00:49.450 --> 00:00:52.890 no eating while driving. Yeah, don't eat while 00:00:52.890 --> 00:00:56.729 driving. We can all agree on that, right? Okay, 00:00:56.770 --> 00:00:59.490 good. Let's talk about the wonderful world of 00:00:59.490 --> 00:01:02.429 car ads. Now, I love a good car ad because I'm 00:01:02.429 --> 00:01:05.069 going up a mountain. I remember GMC had an ad 00:01:05.069 --> 00:01:07.450 years ago where they had like an SUV on the top 00:01:07.450 --> 00:01:10.870 of like some rock formation. Like, clearly the 00:01:10.870 --> 00:01:12.510 only way I got this vehicle up here was the helicopter. 00:01:12.629 --> 00:01:15.069 I mean, that sounds like every pickup truck ad 00:01:15.069 --> 00:01:17.290 ever made. They're the best. They're totally 00:01:17.290 --> 00:01:19.510 realistic. They make me feel like a real man 00:01:19.510 --> 00:01:23.129 who's never eaten tofu. But the Insurance Institute 00:01:23.129 --> 00:01:25.829 for Highway Safety. Has an article, more car 00:01:25.829 --> 00:01:28.349 ads promote vehicle performance despite dangers 00:01:28.349 --> 00:01:33.209 of speed. And it talks about how the broadcasters 00:01:33.209 --> 00:01:35.530 should be, you know, following some sort of regulations 00:01:35.530 --> 00:01:37.689 and not promoting this stuff. So I'm going to 00:01:37.689 --> 00:01:40.430 quote from this article. ABC standards were more 00:01:40.430 --> 00:01:42.790 specific, stating that safe and lawful driving 00:01:42.790 --> 00:01:45.769 practices should be depicted at all times. But 00:01:45.769 --> 00:01:47.189 there was no mention of sticking to reasonable 00:01:47.189 --> 00:01:50.859 speeds and their examples of safe driving. Similarly, 00:01:50.859 --> 00:01:52.760 NBCUniversal required that advertisers portray 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:54.780 compliance with safety standards precautions, 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:57.299 calling it the use of seatbelts, but ignoring 00:01:57.299 --> 00:02:00.959 speed. So, this is why you see a bunch of cars 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:04.299 speeding down the highway, doing, I don't know, 00:02:04.299 --> 00:02:06.239 K -turns and things like that, but they're wearing 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:09.159 a seatbelt. That makes sense. Okay, I guess. 00:02:11.500 --> 00:02:14.120 Yeah, so what sells cars is speed and horsepower. 00:02:14.659 --> 00:02:18.800 Yeah. The hat's very misleading because even, 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:22.000 you know, well, the speed will kill you, number 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:24.500 one. But number two, the horsepower that they 00:02:24.500 --> 00:02:28.699 talk about is really not available to anybody 00:02:28.699 --> 00:02:31.280 who's driving a car. Because if you ever did 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:34.960 get 500 horsepower coming through your rear wheels, 00:02:35.419 --> 00:02:38.639 they'd be spinning wildly and you'd be completely 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:42.780 out of control. And the actual vehicle that you 00:02:42.780 --> 00:02:45.980 might be driving going down the highway. will 00:02:45.980 --> 00:02:49.400 consume about 25, 30 horsepower, maybe 50 horsepower 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:53.139 going up a reasonable grade, unless you've got 00:02:53.139 --> 00:02:56.479 the pickup truck. It was, you know, towing a 00:02:56.479 --> 00:03:00.460 whole tractor trailer full of concrete up the 00:03:00.460 --> 00:03:02.960 side of Mount Everest or something. Okay, then 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:05.960 you can use it. That was a pretty good pickup 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:08.699 truck. Yeah, that sound, I think we have a new 00:03:08.699 --> 00:03:12.159 theme song. I practiced that. I mean, the IHST 00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:14.430 is interesting because it... They looked at a 00:03:14.430 --> 00:03:18.349 lot of ads. And so they basically tracked a period 00:03:18.349 --> 00:03:22.110 from 2018 to 2022, five -year period, in which, 00:03:22.110 --> 00:03:24.530 you know, deaths linked to speeding and aggressive 00:03:24.530 --> 00:03:29.830 driving were going up. And at the same time, 00:03:29.830 --> 00:03:32.430 these ads were going up. Now, I know it's difficult 00:03:32.430 --> 00:03:34.750 to establish, you know, causation between that 00:03:34.750 --> 00:03:38.150 kind of thing. Just like, you know, there are 00:03:38.150 --> 00:03:40.590 lots of video games out there and movies that 00:03:40.590 --> 00:03:44.360 show the same thing. And there's kind of a there's 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:46.819 responsibilities here that, you know, you mentioned 00:03:46.819 --> 00:03:49.259 the networks, Anthony, and, you know, their policies 00:03:49.259 --> 00:03:53.099 on this. You know, there's there's responsibility 00:03:53.099 --> 00:03:54.879 that I think should be put on the manufacturers 00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:58.280 there to not put the give these ads to the network 00:03:58.280 --> 00:04:02.370 to show to America in the first place. But. That's 00:04:02.370 --> 00:04:04.969 not the law in the United States. I guess there 00:04:04.969 --> 00:04:07.969 are some free speech, commercial speech concerns 00:04:07.969 --> 00:04:10.490 involved there. In the United Kingdom, you can't 00:04:10.490 --> 00:04:12.870 advertise cars like this. You can't show them 00:04:12.870 --> 00:04:16.069 doing unsafe things in advertisements on TV. 00:04:16.209 --> 00:04:18.350 You can still make the movies and the video games 00:04:18.350 --> 00:04:21.230 and all the other stuff. But so it's interesting 00:04:21.230 --> 00:04:23.550 how different countries approach these things. 00:04:23.589 --> 00:04:28.540 Obviously, the UK doesn't have. the kind of speed 00:04:28.540 --> 00:04:31.439 -related fatality rate that we do in the United 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:33.740 States. So, you know, maybe there's something 00:04:33.740 --> 00:04:36.819 to this. And it's something the Center has tried 00:04:36.819 --> 00:04:40.759 to work on for decades. I mean, we used to participate 00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:43.860 in an award ceremony each year for the most irresponsible 00:04:43.860 --> 00:04:49.360 advertising. We worked on a documentary called 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:53.480 Power Trip with Myron Levin in the last couple 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:56.220 of years, which is essentially on this subject. 00:04:56.420 --> 00:05:00.040 You know, it shows a lot of those ads and really 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:04.680 explores, you know, the kind of the legal and 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:07.519 the social and cultural issues that are going 00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:11.060 on there. But, you know, this is something that's 00:05:11.060 --> 00:05:14.149 so obvious. We see it all the time. on television 00:05:14.149 --> 00:05:17.410 and in other media. And, you know, obviously 00:05:17.410 --> 00:05:19.810 it's having some sort of impact, particularly 00:05:19.810 --> 00:05:22.310 on people who are maybe a little more impressionable 00:05:22.310 --> 00:05:26.230 by images of cool and, you know, masculinity 00:05:26.230 --> 00:05:28.689 and other things that show up in these ads. So 00:05:28.689 --> 00:05:32.449 it is a contributor to the way that some people 00:05:32.449 --> 00:05:35.569 drive. And it's not a good contributor, right? 00:05:35.750 --> 00:05:38.550 Are these ads effective with women? Because they 00:05:38.550 --> 00:05:41.569 look like, you know, ads aimed at teenage boys. 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:44.899 I don't know. Matthew McConaughey? I don't know. 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:49.040 But he's not riding up a mountainside. He's just 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:51.120 sitting there looking weird. He's usually looking 00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:54.019 cool in a Lincoln, right? No one looks cool in 00:05:54.019 --> 00:05:58.259 a Lincoln. I'm sorry. I think they've even given 00:05:58.259 --> 00:06:00.560 up on that. I haven't seen those ads in a long 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:05.899 time. I've got to get back to gullibility with 00:06:05.899 --> 00:06:07.579 the horsepower thing because all you're really 00:06:07.579 --> 00:06:10.079 doing with a lot of horsepower under your hood 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:14.399 is carrying a whole big block of cast iron around 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:16.879 with you everywhere you go. You know, your car 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:19.560 is not designed to produce maximum horsepower 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:22.980 for more than one or two seconds. And if you 00:06:22.980 --> 00:06:24.740 think you're going to do that, you're going to 00:06:24.740 --> 00:06:27.360 blow out your bearings and your cooling system. 00:06:28.500 --> 00:06:30.959 The difference between a car design and a truck 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:33.920 design is that the truck design has bearings 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:37.519 and cooling system that are adapted for a very 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:42.199 high work factor. associated with the horsepower, 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:46.199 right? So you can go around at 200 horsepower 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:48.240 all day long and you won't blow anything up. 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.319 Your car is not doing that. So when you buy a 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:55.040 car based upon its horsepower claim, all you're 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:58.879 doing is really showing your gullibility. You 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:02.279 don't need it. It costs you a lot of money. At 00:07:02.279 --> 00:07:05.980 the time of purchase, it costs you a lot of money. 00:07:06.019 --> 00:07:07.860 It also costs you a lot because you have to drag 00:07:07.860 --> 00:07:12.500 it around everywhere you go. My pet peeve. End 00:07:12.500 --> 00:07:15.579 of rant. If you're not gullible, go to autosafety 00:07:15.579 --> 00:07:18.959 .org and click on Donate. Or if you want to know 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:21.379 what horsepower really means, click on Donate. 00:07:21.740 --> 00:07:24.360 And Fred will come to your house personally with 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:27.519 a horse and show you how much it can pull. Right, 00:07:27.579 --> 00:07:30.060 Fred? I think that was one of the earlier towels, 00:07:30.259 --> 00:07:33.519 in fact. I don't remember exactly, but... It's 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:36.139 a consistent theme. Yeah. Fred has still not 00:07:36.139 --> 00:07:38.319 showed up at our winner's house with a horse. 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:41.379 I mean, it was me who won. I mean, I put my thumb 00:07:41.379 --> 00:07:43.639 on the scale. I've never ridden a horse. I'm 00:07:43.639 --> 00:07:47.759 a fully modern guy. Wow. Anyway, let's move on. 00:07:48.100 --> 00:07:50.920 So this is a fascinating article here. This is 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:56.160 an MSN from Autoblog. And it seems that in Euro 00:07:56.160 --> 00:07:58.740 NCAP, which is their new car assessment program, 00:07:58.939 --> 00:08:01.399 that a lot of manufacturers don't care about 00:08:01.399 --> 00:08:03.519 getting a five star rating anymore. And we'd 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:05.339 always talk about how it's kind of perfunctory 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:08.399 in the US. that everybody gets it because the 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:10.660 standard really hasn't changed. It's pretty weak. 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:13.759 And so almost, almost everyone is right. That's 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:16.379 the real problem. So it means nothing. So, whereas 00:08:16.379 --> 00:08:18.279 in Europe, these people are like, Hey, I'm not 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:19.720 gonna, I don't care about hitting that. I'll 00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:23.759 go for a four or I'll go for a three. Because 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:26.120 the point is that according from this article, 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:30.220 this one company, Dacia, they're targeted three 00:08:30.220 --> 00:08:32.720 stars wanting to remain competitive at the four 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:37.100 affordable end of the market. So basic safety 00:08:37.100 --> 00:08:40.419 is you got to be able to afford it is what the 00:08:40.419 --> 00:08:43.740 takeaway is. But then further down, quoting, 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:46.059 Euro NCAP has highlighted the growing use of 00:08:46.059 --> 00:08:48.720 dual ratings where certain vehicles achieve different 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:51.320 safety scores depending on the trim level or 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:54.159 optional safety pack fitted. Honda and Kia follow 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:56.419 this approach with the Honda HR -V and CR -V 00:08:56.419 --> 00:08:59.139 only achieving five -star scores in the higher 00:08:59.139 --> 00:09:02.220 spec configurations, while the Kia K4 received 00:09:02.220 --> 00:09:05.240 a four -star rating in its base form. So when 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:07.799 you see these ads like, hey, five star rating, 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:10.240 there's a it's got to be a big asterisk being 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:12.220 like, well, I hope you got the upgraded comes 00:09:12.220 --> 00:09:15.649 with brakes package. Yeah, I guess there should 00:09:15.649 --> 00:09:17.490 be. I mean, I don't know how these are. You know, 00:09:17.509 --> 00:09:19.529 these are all Euro and cap ratings. How this 00:09:19.529 --> 00:09:21.190 is playing out in America is very different, 00:09:21.309 --> 00:09:23.509 I think, because everybody gets so many of everybody 00:09:23.509 --> 00:09:26.450 can get five stars. Now, if you get four stars, 00:09:26.690 --> 00:09:30.590 God forbid you get three stars. You know, it 00:09:30.590 --> 00:09:33.690 looks like your quality has dropped off a cliff 00:09:33.690 --> 00:09:36.850 because the tests are old. Manufacturers have 00:09:36.850 --> 00:09:40.649 learned how to best comply with the test procedures. 00:09:42.190 --> 00:09:44.470 They've got their head wrapped around these tests 00:09:44.470 --> 00:09:46.990 that have been sitting there for 15, 20 years 00:09:46.990 --> 00:09:50.470 or more, right? But at Euro NCAP, they're constantly 00:09:50.470 --> 00:09:54.350 introducing a range of new tests around, you 00:09:54.350 --> 00:09:56.470 know, crash avoidance features. You know, NCAP 00:09:56.470 --> 00:09:58.110 right now in the United States is still catching 00:09:58.110 --> 00:09:59.909 up with automatic emergency braking. Meanwhile, 00:10:00.230 --> 00:10:04.129 NCAP and Euro already has those tests and they're 00:10:04.129 --> 00:10:06.850 rating vehicles based on them. So that's one 00:10:06.850 --> 00:10:09.870 reason you'll see, I think, an NCAP test, the 00:10:09.870 --> 00:10:12.470 base model vehicles getting four stars while 00:10:12.470 --> 00:10:14.549 the top ones get five because those top ones 00:10:14.549 --> 00:10:19.419 have that additional layer of... crash avoidance 00:10:19.419 --> 00:10:22.019 tech and other features that they're rated highly 00:10:22.019 --> 00:10:25.179 for. You know, Euro NCAP is even rating for things 00:10:25.179 --> 00:10:28.779 like we've discussed around, you know, your dashboard 00:10:28.779 --> 00:10:31.519 configuration, whether you've got too many buttons, 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:33.600 that kind of thing, a distraction, things that 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:36.059 the United States NCAP is not. And so I would 00:10:36.059 --> 00:10:38.600 say it's, you know, maybe this strategy makes 00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:41.639 sense for some companies in the European market, 00:10:41.700 --> 00:10:44.690 but it certainly wouldn't here. given the very 00:10:44.690 --> 00:10:47.210 different states of our NCAP programs and the 00:10:47.210 --> 00:10:51.049 extent of testing and rating that go on. Michael, 00:10:51.070 --> 00:10:56.350 how many cars are tested under NCAP during this 00:10:56.350 --> 00:11:00.710 current administration? It varies every year. 00:11:01.149 --> 00:11:04.470 I think at some point it's been over 100. You 00:11:04.470 --> 00:11:07.950 know, I think it's about 30 vehicles now. I think 00:11:07.950 --> 00:11:13.649 they tested 37 last year, which is... I think 00:11:13.649 --> 00:11:17.750 less than IHS is now testing under some of the 00:11:17.750 --> 00:11:20.009 tests with IHS that I think we would prefer to 00:11:20.009 --> 00:11:23.830 be used by NHTSA. So it's interesting that, in 00:11:23.830 --> 00:11:26.649 fact, the NCAPS budget, I want to say, is around 00:11:26.649 --> 00:11:30.370 $6 million, maybe $5 million per year when you 00:11:30.370 --> 00:11:33.250 start adding up the cost because NHTSA goes and 00:11:33.250 --> 00:11:39.259 blind buys the vehicle. They have to buy, you 00:11:39.259 --> 00:11:42.779 know, 40 cars, say. You add up the cost of all 00:11:42.779 --> 00:11:46.940 those cars and, you know, you're getting close 00:11:46.940 --> 00:11:49.220 to a large percentage of your budget, which should 00:11:49.220 --> 00:11:51.620 also be used to enhance testing and do all these 00:11:51.620 --> 00:11:53.600 other things. So, you know, one of our major 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:56.059 challenges in the United States with NCAP is 00:11:56.059 --> 00:11:59.580 funding. And that's something that I don't know 00:11:59.580 --> 00:12:01.679 that the agency and Congress have completely 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:06.409 gotten their head around. disappointing when 00:12:06.409 --> 00:12:08.549 you see just how well in -cap the United States 00:12:08.549 --> 00:12:12.250 started out and how it's floundered in the last 00:12:12.250 --> 00:12:16.529 couple of decades. Could NHTSA file a complaint 00:12:16.529 --> 00:12:19.429 saying they were unjustly prosecuted under the 00:12:19.429 --> 00:12:22.350 Biden administration to get access to a billion 00:12:22.350 --> 00:12:26.529 -dollar -plus slush fund? You know, is that the 00:12:26.529 --> 00:12:29.570 way the world's working now? Apparently. I don't 00:12:29.570 --> 00:12:35.789 want them to, no. But you know what? It's hard 00:12:35.789 --> 00:12:37.929 to comment on that without seeing how it plays 00:12:37.929 --> 00:12:40.590 out. I would love for NHTSA to have a $1 .8 billion 00:12:40.590 --> 00:12:44.269 safety slush fund. Yes. Yes, I would. I think 00:12:44.269 --> 00:12:47.529 we all would. So when NHTSA buys these cars, 00:12:47.570 --> 00:12:51.129 does trim level, do you have any idea in the 00:12:51.129 --> 00:12:54.509 U .S. testing of this, does that have an impact? 00:12:54.610 --> 00:12:57.070 Or is it just the U .S. model is just so weak 00:12:57.070 --> 00:13:01.649 that everyone gets a trophy? I think NHTSA tries 00:13:01.649 --> 00:13:05.610 to test the base models because they give them 00:13:05.610 --> 00:13:07.590 a better idea of, you know, because that's what 00:13:07.590 --> 00:13:10.570 most people are going to buy typically. And it 00:13:10.570 --> 00:13:13.309 gives them a better idea of how the vehicles, 00:13:13.470 --> 00:13:16.610 you know, are performing without all the added 00:13:16.610 --> 00:13:18.990 enhancements and other things that come with 00:13:18.990 --> 00:13:21.190 some of the options you can put on the vehicle. 00:13:22.169 --> 00:13:24.990 Heated cup holders, things like that. They're 00:13:24.990 --> 00:13:27.889 not looking at that, I hope. The only way NHTSA 00:13:27.889 --> 00:13:30.309 is looking at a heated cup holder is under their 00:13:30.309 --> 00:13:33.909 recall authority. All right, let's jump on. Fred, 00:13:34.049 --> 00:13:36.049 this is going to be one of your favorite bugaboos. 00:13:36.049 --> 00:13:37.669 And I think this has been a bugaboo definitely 00:13:37.669 --> 00:13:41.470 since season one. And it was how do roads get 00:13:41.470 --> 00:13:45.590 paid for? And that's, you know, typically you 00:13:45.590 --> 00:13:47.429 get paid, you get charged at the state level 00:13:47.429 --> 00:13:50.570 a gas tax. Some states like California, it's 00:13:50.570 --> 00:13:53.730 really high. Other states, it's virtually non 00:13:53.730 --> 00:13:57.889 -existent. And EV owners, they don't buy gasoline, 00:13:58.190 --> 00:14:00.269 so they're not paying anything. And Fred, early 00:14:00.269 --> 00:14:03.610 on, you're like, well, you know, these vehicles 00:14:03.610 --> 00:14:06.470 weigh more. They cause more road wear because 00:14:06.470 --> 00:14:08.029 of this. But they're getting a free ride. Everyone 00:14:08.029 --> 00:14:10.590 else is getting taxed on this. But now there's 00:14:10.590 --> 00:14:14.789 a bill pushing forward to the Build America 250 00:14:14.789 --> 00:14:17.889 Act. And part of this is that it would require 00:14:17.889 --> 00:14:22.929 $130 federal registration fee to drive an EV. 00:14:23.610 --> 00:14:26.289 And that fee would increase $5 by every year 00:14:26.289 --> 00:14:31.450 until it reaches $150. And that's twice the amount 00:14:31.450 --> 00:14:35.149 that essentially they're guessing that gas power 00:14:35.149 --> 00:14:40.090 vehicles pay. So this is one, the way that our 00:14:40.090 --> 00:14:44.470 roads are funded is Byzantine. And two, also, 00:14:44.549 --> 00:14:47.470 I think the administration being like, hey, there's 00:14:47.470 --> 00:14:49.850 another reason not to get an EV. So, Fred, I 00:14:49.850 --> 00:14:52.330 want to know from you specifically, why did you 00:14:52.330 --> 00:14:54.289 write this bill and why are you so anti -EB? 00:14:55.389 --> 00:14:59.509 I have mixed feelings about it. Yeah. Because 00:14:59.509 --> 00:15:01.850 it does make sense. You know, people shouldn't 00:15:01.850 --> 00:15:05.029 be able to evade the taxes or the funding sources 00:15:05.029 --> 00:15:08.129 for the roads. But given the Byzantine nature 00:15:08.129 --> 00:15:11.049 of the funding that comes out of both general 00:15:11.049 --> 00:15:14.529 revenues and applicable road tax, there's probably 00:15:14.529 --> 00:15:17.509 not enough tax on fuel. to pay for the roads 00:15:17.509 --> 00:15:20.850 because every time an administration raises the 00:15:20.850 --> 00:15:23.570 tax, they get kicked out of office. Last time 00:15:23.570 --> 00:15:26.690 was with Bill Clinton that caused catastrophic 00:15:26.690 --> 00:15:31.350 loss of control of both the House and the Senate. 00:15:32.049 --> 00:15:35.509 And people figure whenever you raise a federal 00:15:35.509 --> 00:15:38.570 tax, that's going to happen to them. So they 00:15:38.570 --> 00:15:41.909 don't raise a federal tax. So it really is Byzantine. 00:15:43.980 --> 00:15:46.440 I can have mixed feelings about it. I don't like 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:51.179 the idea of taking the money, putting it into 00:15:51.179 --> 00:15:54.440 the federal general revenue, and then losing 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:57.259 control of it rather than assigning it to the 00:15:57.259 --> 00:16:03.399 highway tax fund. So I'm not familiar with the 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:05.179 details of this tax. I'm not sure where the money 00:16:05.179 --> 00:16:08.480 is going, how it's being allocated. Yeah, it's 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:11.299 typically going to support transportation infrastructure. 00:16:12.330 --> 00:16:15.429 That could be anything. There's a sign that way. 00:16:15.429 --> 00:16:18.610 It makes sense. It would annoy the people who 00:16:18.610 --> 00:16:21.129 own EVs, but since I'm not one of them, I guess 00:16:21.129 --> 00:16:24.309 my mixed feelings are that it's probably a good 00:16:24.309 --> 00:16:27.110 idea. I'd probably feel differently if I owned 00:16:27.110 --> 00:16:28.830 an EV. Y 'all give me a minute. I've got a guy 00:16:28.830 --> 00:16:30.330 here to look at their conditioner. He got here 00:16:30.330 --> 00:16:32.710 early. I'll be right back. We'll be here. We'll 00:16:32.710 --> 00:16:39.409 finish. The gas tax is super important. I wonder, 00:16:39.509 --> 00:16:42.649 you know... It's really important to funding 00:16:42.649 --> 00:16:44.509 a lot of transportation products, all the safe 00:16:44.509 --> 00:16:48.450 streets projects, you know, any type of project 00:16:48.450 --> 00:16:50.610 that would involve what I think we all support 00:16:50.610 --> 00:16:53.950 is, you know, communication between the things 00:16:53.950 --> 00:16:56.389 moving around the infrastructure, vehicle to 00:16:56.389 --> 00:16:58.309 infrastructure, vehicle to vehicle communications. 00:16:59.210 --> 00:17:01.490 That's where a lot of the public funding is going 00:17:01.490 --> 00:17:05.039 to come from for that kind of thing. It's an 00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:08.380 interesting bill because it does reassign some 00:17:08.380 --> 00:17:10.480 of the responsibility of paying for that infrastructure 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:13.779 to electric vehicle owners. I see the need for 00:17:13.779 --> 00:17:15.859 that. You know, I also could see, as some might 00:17:15.859 --> 00:17:18.160 argue, that it's a disincentive. A lot of the 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:20.220 reason people were buying EVs were to avoid, 00:17:20.380 --> 00:17:23.559 you know, the gas tax and things like that. So 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:28.559 it's maybe a little painful for EV owners, but 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:31.539 it's... You know, it's interesting that, you 00:17:31.539 --> 00:17:33.119 know, basically the federal government is telling 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:36.920 the states to monitor this. You know, it's not 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:39.299 you're not going to be paying the federal government 00:17:39.299 --> 00:17:41.140 that fee every year. The states are going to 00:17:41.140 --> 00:17:42.779 have to come out and collect it for you. I don't 00:17:42.779 --> 00:17:44.400 know if they're going to do it through registrations 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:48.859 or through other procedures. But it's interesting 00:17:48.859 --> 00:17:52.980 in some ways. And it could help the, you know, 00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:56.509 right now with the price of gas. I think the 00:17:56.509 --> 00:17:59.430 infrastructure project should be doing pretty 00:17:59.430 --> 00:18:02.589 well. Maybe they don't need this extra money 00:18:02.589 --> 00:18:04.730 coming in, but I think we'd all like as much 00:18:04.730 --> 00:18:07.950 funding as possible to head towards our transportation 00:18:07.950 --> 00:18:11.910 infrastructure. Better roads. With that, let's 00:18:11.910 --> 00:18:14.069 jump to Gaslight. You guys remember Gaslight? 00:18:14.170 --> 00:18:16.849 Remember that section of the show? I did. I'm 00:18:16.849 --> 00:18:18.930 going to start off. I'm going to choose Waymo. 00:18:19.089 --> 00:18:20.650 Nope, Fred, I'm not going to do whatever you're 00:18:20.650 --> 00:18:24.380 going to do. My Waymo is going to be. Related 00:18:24.380 --> 00:18:26.799 to how Waymo has this problem where they've been 00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:31.380 driving into floods and or they stop and they're 00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:33.140 afraid of tiny little puddles. But this has happened 00:18:33.140 --> 00:18:34.700 a few times. I believe it was in Austin where 00:18:34.700 --> 00:18:36.720 they drove into floodwaters. And that's what 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:38.599 you want in an electric vehicle or any vehicle 00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:40.140 for that matter, just to have it there floating. 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:44.400 And so quoting from an article, well, from an 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:47.920 article on futurism .com. Waymo, quoting, says, 00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:50.140 we are working to implement additional software 00:18:50.140 --> 00:18:52.420 safeguards, and I've put mitigations in place, 00:18:52.539 --> 00:18:55.000 including refining our extreme weather operations 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:58.460 during periods of intense rain. So that means 00:18:58.460 --> 00:19:00.619 Waymo is like, hey, we're going to figure out 00:19:00.619 --> 00:19:03.740 a way to geofence our vehicles so they don't 00:19:03.740 --> 00:19:06.220 go in floods. When it comes to school buses, 00:19:06.500 --> 00:19:09.980 suck it, kids. So they have this technology. 00:19:10.220 --> 00:19:12.380 They can go ahead and do this. But again, when 00:19:12.380 --> 00:19:14.299 it comes to school buses, they don't give a crap. 00:19:16.140 --> 00:19:18.579 Is that what's going on here? I mean, they have 00:19:18.579 --> 00:19:22.549 technology to avoid flooding. They think, right? 00:19:22.650 --> 00:19:24.990 They've put a recall in. But for all we know 00:19:24.990 --> 00:19:26.990 at this point, you know, they're still trying 00:19:26.990 --> 00:19:30.710 to train their AI, right, to figure this out. 00:19:30.890 --> 00:19:33.789 At least their approach with flooding is a positive 00:19:33.789 --> 00:19:35.730 direction. Whereas with school buses, they said, 00:19:35.829 --> 00:19:38.549 oh, yeah, we did a recall. It didn't work. Nope. 00:19:38.630 --> 00:19:41.089 We're not going to stop operating around school 00:19:41.089 --> 00:19:43.430 buses. I mean, the remedy program for the recall 00:19:43.430 --> 00:19:46.630 is different, right? They modified the approved 00:19:46.630 --> 00:19:50.410 scope of operation. to get away from the flooding 00:19:50.410 --> 00:19:53.009 events, but they refused to modify the scope 00:19:53.009 --> 00:19:55.630 of operation to avoid school buses as requested 00:19:55.630 --> 00:20:00.589 by Austin. Exactly. And Atlanta as well, I believe. 00:20:00.650 --> 00:20:03.150 I think it wasn't... Atlanta was some issues. 00:20:03.390 --> 00:20:06.630 I know Austin School District requested it, but 00:20:06.630 --> 00:20:08.589 Atlanta may have... Atlanta, I think... Well, 00:20:08.589 --> 00:20:10.849 come on. Are you guys environmentalists or not? 00:20:10.930 --> 00:20:13.089 Because you've got to decide what's more important, 00:20:13.269 --> 00:20:16.829 avoiding children or avoiding nature. By both. 00:20:16.950 --> 00:20:19.670 Both, yes, is the answer. Clearly, Waymo came 00:20:19.670 --> 00:20:22.809 down on the side of the environment. So how can 00:20:22.809 --> 00:20:27.730 you argue with that? I mean, both of these situations 00:20:27.730 --> 00:20:29.990 are something that drivers encounter all the 00:20:29.990 --> 00:20:31.990 time and that as an autonomous vehicle company, 00:20:32.049 --> 00:20:34.369 you should be handling with few or any problems, 00:20:34.569 --> 00:20:38.369 right? One would think. So Waymo gets my gaslight 00:20:38.369 --> 00:20:41.829 of the century, of this week anyway. Who's up 00:20:41.829 --> 00:20:44.680 next? Who's ready to go? I'm ready to go. Oh, 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:46.339 he is. Ladies and gentlemen, Fred Perkins is 00:20:46.339 --> 00:20:51.519 stretching. So there's an article or a newsletter. 00:20:51.740 --> 00:20:53.380 What the hell is an open letter, Michael, that 00:20:53.380 --> 00:20:58.000 came out that talks from medical responders or 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:02.900 medical people. I guess an organization called 00:21:02.900 --> 00:21:06.319 Doximity. Anyway, what they've done, and I'm 00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:10.539 calling them Physicians United, is that they 00:21:10.539 --> 00:21:14.690 have endorsed the whole idea that. Since AVs 00:21:14.690 --> 00:21:19.849 are saving 92 % of lives, that we must, we must, 00:21:19.910 --> 00:21:23.250 must, must proliferate these as rapidly as possible. 00:21:23.369 --> 00:21:27.329 We got to get out of the way of these miserable 00:21:27.329 --> 00:21:30.470 states like Massachusetts, my own Bay State, 00:21:30.650 --> 00:21:35.549 that is trying to have reasonable regulations 00:21:35.549 --> 00:21:40.670 put in place for AVs. So, quoting from them, 00:21:40.670 --> 00:21:43.750 it says, we call on state. and local governments 00:21:43.750 --> 00:21:47.210 to replace unwarranted regulatory barriers with 00:21:47.210 --> 00:21:50.069 evidence -based frameworks that encourage deployment 00:21:50.069 --> 00:21:53.250 where the data supports it. New York, Massachusetts, 00:21:53.730 --> 00:21:56.609 Washington, Washington, D .C., and Minnesota 00:21:56.609 --> 00:21:59.589 are attempting to or have effectively blocked 00:21:59.589 --> 00:22:02.410 autonomous vehicles despite this growing body 00:22:02.410 --> 00:22:06.839 of evidence. Growing body of evidence. Well, 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.660 that's key, isn't it? Because the growing body 00:22:09.660 --> 00:22:12.279 of evidence is based on a single biased in -house 00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:16.559 study that was not peer reviewed by Waymo, which 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:18.660 is the leading proponent of AV proliferation. 00:22:18.859 --> 00:22:22.759 It seems pretty clear that Waymo wrote this letter. 00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:26.180 Fred, in this article, it says, and I'm going 00:22:26.180 --> 00:22:28.779 to quote from this letter, it says, a 2025 peer 00:22:28.779 --> 00:22:31.579 reviewed study. And they link to the peer reviewed 00:22:31.579 --> 00:22:34.420 study. And so I put on my Fred Perkins hat, went 00:22:34.420 --> 00:22:36.920 to it, went down to their sources in the study. 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:39.420 And a lot of it's like Arizona State, like around 00:22:39.420 --> 00:22:43.099 nothing to do with AVs. But the two AV articles 00:22:43.099 --> 00:22:46.019 they cite, you're right, were written by Waymo. 00:22:46.619 --> 00:22:50.799 So everyone, this is this this letter, I think, 00:22:50.819 --> 00:22:53.380 was written by the same doctor who wrote the 00:22:53.380 --> 00:22:54.759 letter to the New York, the opinion, the New 00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:56.960 York Times. No, but they cited it. They cited 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:01.420 his. He's the first signer. He's the first signer. 00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.619 Yeah. And, you know, he's been pretty clear that 00:23:04.619 --> 00:23:07.500 he doesn't have an interest with Weymouth. So 00:23:07.500 --> 00:23:09.519 he's pretty clear that he's not smart enough 00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:11.440 to take the money. He'll just do it for free. 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:14.640 Yeah. But I will point out, I will point out 00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:17.759 in the doctors. I mean, look, I think our main 00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:20.140 disagreement with the doctors is they are citing. 00:23:20.980 --> 00:23:24.279 They are citing the Waymo study and other things. 00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:26.299 I mean, mentioning Tesla in the article is kind 00:23:26.299 --> 00:23:29.539 of a boo -boo on their part. But they're citing 00:23:29.539 --> 00:23:33.819 a Waymo study, which, you know, as like hardcore 00:23:33.819 --> 00:23:36.039 evidence that we need to take this technology 00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:38.900 everywhere now, which I think is the big problem. 00:23:39.099 --> 00:23:41.380 Okay, but I got to stop you right here because 00:23:41.380 --> 00:23:46.380 the study that they cite is of early data. Yep. 00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:52.579 dated no later than 2022. It's also a completely 00:23:52.579 --> 00:23:54.960 different software stack than they've got now. 00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:58.000 So whatever they concluded based on that information 00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:00.720 has no relevance to the fleet that they're currently 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:03.900 proliferating. So there's no relationship between 00:24:03.900 --> 00:24:07.240 whatever conclusions, and I think that the conclusions 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:10.700 they reached are wrong based on that study, and 00:24:10.700 --> 00:24:13.819 the vehicles that they're currently proliferating. 00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:16.480 So the idea that you need to proliferate The 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:18.640 current vehicles that are unrelated to any previous 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:22.240 safety studies in order to save lives is a compelling 00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:25.559 argument. Not only calls into question Waymo, 00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:27.640 but it calls into question the judgment of these 00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:32.859 doctors. Would they refuse to use new medical 00:24:32.859 --> 00:24:37.220 technology based upon a study that is five years 00:24:37.220 --> 00:24:39.859 old? I mean, where the hell are these people 00:24:39.859 --> 00:24:45.700 coming from? It's sad that Waymo's bad. It's 00:24:45.700 --> 00:24:49.539 sadder to me that the medical profession is worse. 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:51.960 They're supposed to have technical training and 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:54.720 good judgment, and that's not evident. And just 00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.880 click on a link and check the sources. But with 00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:01.539 that, I will point out from this is I just got 00:25:01.539 --> 00:25:03.180 to quote real quick because there's one part 00:25:03.180 --> 00:25:05.250 of this I think we can all agree on. Part of 00:25:05.250 --> 00:25:06.589 the letter, I'm going to quote, says we call 00:25:06.589 --> 00:25:09.089 on Congress. That's a good part. That's what 00:25:09.089 --> 00:25:11.230 I was about to talk about. So we call on Congress 00:25:11.230 --> 00:25:13.549 and NHTSA to establish an enhanced federal data 00:25:13.549 --> 00:25:15.549 reporting requirements for all autonomous vehicle 00:25:15.549 --> 00:25:18.170 operators. Crash rates per mile, geographic deployment 00:25:18.170 --> 00:25:20.710 data, validated benchmarks for comparison, on 00:25:20.710 --> 00:25:23.910 and on and on. Independent safety audits verified 00:25:23.910 --> 00:25:27.049 against police reports, insurance claims and 00:25:27.049 --> 00:25:29.029 privacy protected medical records. All those 00:25:29.029 --> 00:25:30.990 things are things that we would agree with, right? 00:25:31.150 --> 00:25:33.589 Right. Sure. But all of those things, all of 00:25:33.589 --> 00:25:36.220 those things. delay the implementation of life 00:25:36.220 --> 00:25:39.259 -saving technology by years or decades. Okay. 00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:41.539 What they should be doing if they're really concerned 00:25:41.539 --> 00:25:44.700 about saving lives is they should be advocating 00:25:44.700 --> 00:25:48.980 for the immediate implementation and immediate 00:25:48.980 --> 00:25:51.960 life -saving impact of automated impairment detection, 00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:54.839 automatic emergency braking, intelligent speed 00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:57.779 assist, deployment of these and other proven 00:25:57.779 --> 00:26:00.079 life -saving technology. You got to remember 00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:03.640 seatbelts, airbags, dual diagonal braking. Backup 00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:06.980 cameras, those are all fiercely opposed by the 00:26:06.980 --> 00:26:10.299 automotive industry before they were introduced. 00:26:10.539 --> 00:26:12.799 They're now commonplace, saving lives every day. 00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:16.099 That same approach should be used in proven life 00:26:16.099 --> 00:26:17.980 -saving technologies that could be deployed today, 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:21.440 not pie in the sky sometime in the future. Yep. 00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:23.680 I agree. I'm right. I'm right along with that. 00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:26.039 I just I think we do align with them and what 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:27.640 they want the federal government to do, which 00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:30.359 is to get us get the public better data. Yes. 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:33.740 And on individual operators, too, there's clearly, 00:26:33.779 --> 00:26:38.480 you know, a big range of safety that we would 00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:40.740 trust between, you know, for instance, Waymo 00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:44.819 and Tesla at the moment or Waymo and some random 00:26:44.819 --> 00:26:47.559 company that comes in and starts saying they've 00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:52.349 got the next AV or ABS system. Any safety technology 00:26:52.349 --> 00:26:55.430 to deploy through AVs is not going to have a 00:26:55.430 --> 00:26:58.130 measurable impact on highway safety. No. For 00:26:58.130 --> 00:27:00.829 at least 10 or 15 years. True. Right. Which, 00:27:00.829 --> 00:27:05.329 you know, this is. Which leads into, that leads 00:27:05.329 --> 00:27:09.069 into my gaslight, right? Good transition. Which 00:27:09.069 --> 00:27:12.670 is our most famous gaslighter. Kyle from Cruise? 00:27:12.829 --> 00:27:16.859 This person says. Five years from now and certainly 00:27:16.859 --> 00:27:22.940 10 years from now, probably 90 % of all distance 00:27:22.940 --> 00:27:27.119 driven will be driven by the AI in a self -driving 00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:30.619 car. Name that famous South African. Overwhelmingly, 00:27:30.619 --> 00:27:33.619 it'll be quite a niche, niche thing in 10 years 00:27:33.619 --> 00:27:37.079 to actually be driving your own car. I don't 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:38.720 think I really need to even say anything about 00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:43.859 that. But, you know. 90%, effectively, what Elon 00:27:43.859 --> 00:27:46.500 is saying here is that we're going to replace 00:27:46.500 --> 00:27:50.480 90 % of the fleet with self -driving AIs in the 00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:53.259 next 10 years, absolutely, and probably five 00:27:53.259 --> 00:27:55.500 years from now. Hey, Elon, the clerk says a lot 00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:57.819 of things. Does that sound like even remotely 00:27:57.819 --> 00:28:03.039 possible? Or, I don't know. But at ranking gaslights, 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:07.960 I got to ask you, is it more important to consider 00:28:08.779 --> 00:28:11.000 Somebody who's slinging bullshit, who's been 00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:14.480 slinging bullshit for a long, long time, or the 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:17.720 perversion of the medical community to serve 00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:19.680 the corporate ends of Waymo. Come on, Anthony. 00:28:20.299 --> 00:28:23.099 Fred, you make an excellent point here. I think, 00:28:23.099 --> 00:28:25.119 Michael, you're playing softball a little too 00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:28.339 easy. It's a good one. I agree. Fred, I mean, 00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:33.019 it's... No, no. Fred, you got a good point. But 00:28:33.019 --> 00:28:35.180 half of what the doctors are saying, we'd agree 00:28:35.180 --> 00:28:38.900 with. Um, you know, uh, but at the same time, 00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:41.599 Waymo is a little softball too, for me. So I 00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:43.880 think, I think Fred, you just squeak out just 00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:46.299 by the smallest amount you win. All right. All 00:28:46.299 --> 00:28:49.880 right. I'll take it. He didn't even consider 00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:52.920 himself. No, I did. He barely beat me. No, you 00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:55.380 had no chance. Come on. You're doing Elon to 00:28:55.380 --> 00:29:01.180 Clark Musk. Come on, please. Hey, that's that. 00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:03.480 Yeah. And that's the end of that section, ladies 00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:06.279 and gentlemen. Let's go to one of my favorite 00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:09.700 subjects, New York City. We've talked about this 00:29:09.700 --> 00:29:12.359 in the past, about speeders, and this happens 00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:15.380 all over the country. The New York Times has 00:29:15.380 --> 00:29:17.579 an article, and this is great. New York City 00:29:17.579 --> 00:29:21.200 is proposing, New York State is proposing a bill 00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:24.349 that would require super speeders. to install 00:29:24.349 --> 00:29:26.250 speed limiting devices on their vehicles. Not 00:29:26.250 --> 00:29:27.750 only do they have to pay to have it installed, 00:29:27.869 --> 00:29:30.450 they have to pay a daily subscription fee, $4 00:29:30.450 --> 00:29:33.230 a day, to use this. I'm going to quote from this 00:29:33.230 --> 00:29:35.950 New York Times article. Driver must be caught 00:29:35.950 --> 00:29:39.069 on camera speeding 16 or more times in a single 00:29:39.069 --> 00:29:41.630 year or more than once a month to qualify as 00:29:41.630 --> 00:29:44.190 a super speeder. In New York City, that designation 00:29:44.190 --> 00:29:48.869 currently includes about 14 ,600 vehicles. Holy, 00:29:49.130 --> 00:29:53.410 what the, huh? Further down. The device, known 00:29:53.410 --> 00:29:55.430 as an intelligent speed assistance, is a small 00:29:55.430 --> 00:29:57.569 box affixed to the dashboard that uses GPS to 00:29:57.569 --> 00:29:59.609 identify the speed limit, 25 miles per hour or 00:29:59.609 --> 00:30:03.589 less on most local streets and higher on highways, 00:30:03.710 --> 00:30:06.670 and caps the driver slightly above it. I think 00:30:06.670 --> 00:30:08.710 this is amazing. They talk about, further down, 00:30:08.890 --> 00:30:10.730 the 10 most frequent offenders in New York City 00:30:10.730 --> 00:30:14.210 last year accrued an average of 179 camera speeding 00:30:14.210 --> 00:30:16.549 tickets, and the worst driver has been caught 00:30:16.549 --> 00:30:20.930 more than 1 ,000 times since 2023. One of those 00:30:20.930 --> 00:30:24.930 drivers was Jamie James Giovansanti, a police 00:30:24.930 --> 00:30:28.589 officer on Staten Island, who has amassed more 00:30:28.589 --> 00:30:31.849 than 500 speeding and red light violations since 00:30:31.849 --> 00:30:36.289 2022. What the police department's like, well, 00:30:36.369 --> 00:30:38.170 we're investigating this. He was not doing. Yeah, 00:30:38.230 --> 00:30:41.269 that's really good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where he 00:30:41.269 --> 00:30:42.930 was. He wasn't doing it while he was playing. 00:30:43.089 --> 00:30:46.049 The fact that they the fact that they even mentioned 00:30:46.049 --> 00:30:48.269 that he. that the violations occurred when he 00:30:48.269 --> 00:30:51.470 was off duty as potentially mitigating the problem 00:30:51.470 --> 00:30:54.690 here. But I was blown away. It's kind of pathetic. 00:30:55.470 --> 00:31:00.289 Slow down, Jimmy. Over 14 ,000 violations of 00:31:00.289 --> 00:31:04.089 people who qualify for this? I mean, I guess 00:31:04.089 --> 00:31:05.769 that's a city of 8 million people, but most of 00:31:05.769 --> 00:31:07.950 these people don't own cars. I mean, the law, 00:31:08.230 --> 00:31:11.869 it said that you had to offend something like 00:31:11.869 --> 00:31:16.640 16 times. Times in one year. Before you got this, 00:31:17.059 --> 00:31:19.599 you know, considered for this technology, I think 00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:22.099 it should be far lower than that. Well, then 00:31:22.099 --> 00:31:25.779 my wife would qualify. Well, I mean, I don't 00:31:25.779 --> 00:31:27.960 think I've gotten a speeding. I got a speeding 00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:31.660 citation about 17 years ago going through a tunnel 00:31:31.660 --> 00:31:35.440 in D .C. From one of those cameras. Oh, the D 00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:39.299 Street tunnel. Five in a year. Good Lord. Yeah, 00:31:39.420 --> 00:31:42.079 this is a lot. Sixteen in a year is what you 00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:44.279 need. It's it's. Yeah, I think they should lower 00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:47.440 that bar. Right. And I think one of the big problems 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:49.059 here is that there's they're not connecting. 00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:51.960 They're not used effectively. They're using technology 00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:54.480 to capture a license plate that connects the 00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:58.410 vehicle to the crime. You know, I wonder if maybe 00:31:58.410 --> 00:32:01.049 they should be connecting it to the person and 00:32:01.049 --> 00:32:06.210 connecting it up to their driver record and insurance 00:32:06.210 --> 00:32:09.529 and all that at this point. I think we have the 00:32:09.529 --> 00:32:15.170 ability to do that. Do we? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, 00:32:15.190 --> 00:32:17.609 but, you know, the first problem here is establishing 00:32:17.609 --> 00:32:20.849 the precedent and getting a bar in place of any 00:32:20.849 --> 00:32:24.170 kind. Right. It can be tweaked in the future. 00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:28.400 to improve the outcome but certainly we shouldn't 00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:30.660 let better be the enemy of good in this case 00:32:30.660 --> 00:32:35.240 and hopefully this will move ahead yeah right 00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:38.339 now it's in discussions with the albany state 00:32:38.339 --> 00:32:41.279 legislature We'll give updates when hopefully 00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:44.119 they all grow a pair and pass this one because 00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:46.480 this is just a no -brainer. Yeah, this needs 00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.619 to go out across America, the super speeder. 00:32:48.619 --> 00:32:50.700 Super easy, lightweight stuff. I mean, that could 00:32:50.700 --> 00:32:52.880 really, really reduce a lot of the problems we 00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:55.059 have because it's these problem over and over 00:32:55.059 --> 00:32:58.880 speeders and reaching extreme speeds that I think 00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:01.710 are behind some of the largest. you know, growths 00:33:01.710 --> 00:33:04.630 and crashes we've seen over the past decade or 00:33:04.630 --> 00:33:07.569 so. Without a doubt. Something that really needs 00:33:07.569 --> 00:33:11.329 to be addressed. And a lot of the speeding freedom 00:33:11.329 --> 00:33:14.009 fighters are out there trying to avoid the impact 00:33:14.009 --> 00:33:16.690 of technology that will actually slow them down. 00:33:16.950 --> 00:33:19.549 And a lot of politicians buy into those arguments. 00:33:20.289 --> 00:33:23.190 And it's, you know, we are where we're at. But, 00:33:23.250 --> 00:33:25.029 you know, Europe already has intelligence speed 00:33:25.029 --> 00:33:27.289 assistance in its vehicles. We need to get along. 00:33:27.390 --> 00:33:30.240 We need to get NHTSA going along that path. and 00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:33.980 start addressing this in the United States. Let's 00:33:33.980 --> 00:33:36.140 move on. Let's go back to my friends at Waymo 00:33:36.140 --> 00:33:38.819 and Fred's friends at Waymo, too. It's from a 00:33:38.819 --> 00:33:43.420 Wired .com article where I'm just going to quote 00:33:43.420 --> 00:33:46.079 directly. We've seen some behavior we haven't 00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:48.220 seen in a few years. Waymo is frequently now 00:33:48.220 --> 00:33:50.940 blocking our fire stations from access, added 00:33:50.940 --> 00:33:53.299 Chief Patrick Rabbit, the head of the San Francisco 00:33:53.299 --> 00:33:55.339 Fire Department. Their default is to freeze. 00:33:55.930 --> 00:33:57.970 The situation can prevent fire trucks from responding 00:33:57.970 --> 00:34:00.069 to emergencies in a timely and appropriate way, 00:34:00.190 --> 00:34:02.509 he said. In Austin, first responders have been 00:34:02.509 --> 00:34:05.690 frequently stymied by Waymo's freezing up, said 00:34:05.690 --> 00:34:08.090 Lieutenant William White, head of the Highway 00:34:08.090 --> 00:34:09.750 Enforcement Command at the Austin Police Department. 00:34:10.030 --> 00:34:12.409 White said that contrary to what Waymo had told 00:34:12.409 --> 00:34:15.269 first responders, the vehicles often fail to 00:34:15.269 --> 00:34:17.690 recognize or respond to officers' hand signals, 00:34:17.809 --> 00:34:20.389 which can lead to cascading delays during emergencies 00:34:20.389 --> 00:34:24.179 or unusual road instances. I believe the technology 00:34:24.179 --> 00:34:26.559 was deployed too quickly in too vast amounts 00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:28.820 with hundreds of vehicles when it wasn't really 00:34:28.820 --> 00:34:32.199 ready, White said. NHTSA did not respond to comments. 00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:34.539 I don't know why NHTSA would respond. This would 00:34:34.539 --> 00:34:38.579 be more of a Austin, Texas state legislature 00:34:38.579 --> 00:34:42.039 allowing these things on their roads thing. Would 00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:45.960 be my takeaway. Yeah, or, you know. I mean, I 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:48.300 guess they got exemptions, but okay. Yeah, I 00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:51.980 mean, it's just, it's. It's a little disconcerting. 00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:55.059 You know, for years now, I think we've pointed 00:34:55.059 --> 00:34:59.619 out the problems with human and robot interactions 00:34:59.619 --> 00:35:05.059 in this space. And the fact that, you know, first 00:35:05.059 --> 00:35:07.039 responders and people who are in the middle of 00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:10.019 all this on the roads are saying that they're 00:35:10.019 --> 00:35:14.860 getting worse is pretty concerning. I got a legal 00:35:14.860 --> 00:35:17.619 question for you, Michael. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. 00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:19.719 Let's say that. He was holding it for a friend. 00:35:20.349 --> 00:35:23.949 A passenger in a Waymo, and you're in Austin, 00:35:24.170 --> 00:35:28.929 Texas, and the Waymo freezes in front of a fire 00:35:28.929 --> 00:35:33.489 truck, and a fire truck just says, hell with 00:35:33.489 --> 00:35:36.269 this, hits the accelerator, pushes the Waymo 00:35:36.269 --> 00:35:39.550 out of the way, and the passenger gets injured. 00:35:40.369 --> 00:35:42.650 Now, the passenger's already signed away their 00:35:42.650 --> 00:35:50.579 rights to sue Waymo. How does that what happens 00:35:50.579 --> 00:35:54.000 to that passenger in that case? This is that's 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:58.420 a that's got a lot of issues. They become famous. 00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:01.559 Yeah. You're like, can you can you can you sue 00:36:01.559 --> 00:36:04.480 your local fire department or government? Are 00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:08.000 they protected under some type of, you know, 00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:11.869 city state exclusion? from liability in that 00:36:11.869 --> 00:36:14.130 situation. Yeah, but you're already giving away 00:36:14.130 --> 00:36:17.570 your rights to Waymo, so. Is there an intervening 00:36:17.570 --> 00:36:19.909 negligence on the part of the firefighter that 00:36:19.909 --> 00:36:22.250 absolves the Waymo vehicle from stopping? That's 00:36:22.250 --> 00:36:25.570 got a lot of issues there. Do fire departments 00:36:25.570 --> 00:36:29.550 do this? It's been done. Really? I don't think 00:36:29.550 --> 00:36:33.409 they do it to occupied vehicles, right? Well, 00:36:33.409 --> 00:36:35.670 you know, it's an emergency. If you've got a 00:36:35.670 --> 00:36:37.670 vehicle and it's an emergency and you're blocking 00:36:37.670 --> 00:36:39.190 a road and you've parked your vehicle in the 00:36:39.190 --> 00:36:40.510 middle of the road and a fire truck can't get 00:36:40.510 --> 00:36:43.550 by, you may be fair game there. If you parked 00:36:43.550 --> 00:36:46.070 your car in front of a hydrant and there's a 00:36:46.070 --> 00:36:48.349 fire and they need to break your windows out 00:36:48.349 --> 00:36:51.269 to get the hose through, that could happen. Maybe 00:36:51.269 --> 00:36:52.869 that's just the movies, but I'm pretty sure that 00:36:52.869 --> 00:36:54.670 happens sometimes in real life. I've seen pictures 00:36:54.670 --> 00:36:58.800 of that. And but hitting a vehicle purposefully 00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:01.139 when there's an occupant in it, I think is well 00:37:01.139 --> 00:37:02.820 beyond the scope of what a fire department would 00:37:02.820 --> 00:37:04.659 do. Well, you're a good San Francisco parent. 00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:06.719 So you put your nine year old in there to go 00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:09.340 to school and you can't see them in the backseat. 00:37:09.380 --> 00:37:11.099 You just see there's no one at the driver's side. 00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:13.280 So the fire department's hitting them. I think 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:16.579 the question might be better at if the Waymo 00:37:16.579 --> 00:37:19.300 stopped in the right in front of a fire hydrant. 00:37:19.300 --> 00:37:21.880 I mean, right in front of a fire. truck and the 00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:23.960 truck couldn't avoid it right it's the same well 00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:27.199 there's a record of them pulling into fire station 00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:30.699 driveways yes and blocking you know that's blocking 00:37:30.699 --> 00:37:34.320 you know when there's a communications blackout 00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:37.739 i mean waymo is pro fire is what i'm hearing 00:37:37.739 --> 00:37:40.000 they're probably going around town setting fires 00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:44.219 with lithium -ion batteries So another question 00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:46.639 that comes up is if they do that, if that ever 00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:49.119 arises, how do they train their Waymos not to 00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:50.940 do that? Because they're now using end -to -end 00:37:50.940 --> 00:37:55.199 AI. So they would have to use many, many instances 00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:58.420 of this happening in order to get the Waymo to 00:37:58.420 --> 00:38:00.300 avoid it. Oh, nevermind. I'm going down a rabbit 00:38:00.300 --> 00:38:02.219 hole. Forget it. That's an excellent question. 00:38:02.420 --> 00:38:05.179 You're such a smart person. Let me research that 00:38:05.179 --> 00:38:08.559 for you. Thank you so much. Are you our AI? I'm 00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:11.579 your AI. Thanks. I'm your AI guy, but who's our 00:38:11.579 --> 00:38:14.119 real AI guys, Mr. Fred Perkins? You ready for 00:38:14.119 --> 00:38:18.360 some Tao time? I'm a robot. Let's go. Okay. Robot 00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:21.300 Fred. Hey, I have a question before you do that. 00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:24.500 I'm thinking of, you know, the kink song Lola? 00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:27.719 Yeah. Is that available on karaoke? Because I'm 00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:31.659 thinking of rewriting those lyrics in honor of 00:38:31.659 --> 00:38:34.019 Waymo. Even if it's not, I think Anthony could 00:38:34.019 --> 00:38:36.619 probably play them. the background for you. Ladies 00:38:36.619 --> 00:38:38.820 and gentlemen, if you want to do a karaoke with 00:38:38.820 --> 00:38:40.699 Fred Perkins, go to autosafety .org and click 00:38:40.699 --> 00:38:45.159 on donate. You can donate just $1 and he will 00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:50.099 take you to his local karaoke bar. I can see 00:38:50.099 --> 00:38:53.519 it coming already. Okay, so I wanted to talk 00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:57.920 about the safety standard for essentially all 00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:02.500 cars and particularly all the self -driving cars, 00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:05.969 which is Safety is defined as the absence of 00:39:05.969 --> 00:39:10.389 unreasonable risk. This is bullshit. You know, 00:39:10.389 --> 00:39:13.010 it's a safety standard that you cannot put a 00:39:13.010 --> 00:39:15.909 number to. What is the number that you ascribe 00:39:15.909 --> 00:39:19.929 to reasonableness, Michael? There is not one. 00:39:20.269 --> 00:39:22.929 I mean, this is the standard for recalls, essentially. 00:39:23.309 --> 00:39:25.510 Right. So it's all qualitative. Unreasonable 00:39:25.510 --> 00:39:27.710 risk to motor vehicle safety. And there has never 00:39:27.710 --> 00:39:30.710 been an agreed upon standard or number of percent 00:39:30.710 --> 00:39:34.309 of defects, blah, blah, blah. You know, there's 00:39:34.309 --> 00:39:39.150 language like a defect can't be de minimis. And 00:39:39.150 --> 00:39:41.349 we can debate what that means forever. But there's 00:39:41.349 --> 00:39:46.000 really not a definition there. Right. So the 00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:48.840 self -driving car is a machine, right? And for 00:39:48.840 --> 00:39:50.699 people to build machines, you need to have a 00:39:50.699 --> 00:39:52.900 bunch of numbers because the machines respond 00:39:52.900 --> 00:39:56.659 to numbers. You got to cut metal. You got to 00:39:56.659 --> 00:39:59.079 make it fit together. You got to put software 00:39:59.079 --> 00:40:00.500 in place. You got to have a certain number of 00:40:00.500 --> 00:40:02.199 lines of code. It's got to execute a certain 00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:07.480 way. And just saying everything is reasonable, 00:40:07.539 --> 00:40:09.699 everything is qualitative, is never going to 00:40:09.699 --> 00:40:12.900 work to establish a numerical safety standard 00:40:12.900 --> 00:40:16.829 that... People can accept. And what they're really 00:40:16.829 --> 00:40:19.010 doing when they do this is pushing the whole 00:40:19.010 --> 00:40:21.429 problem down the road, waiting for a court to 00:40:21.429 --> 00:40:24.389 decide what reasonable means in the context of 00:40:24.389 --> 00:40:29.170 a self -driving car. And so there'll be another 00:40:29.170 --> 00:40:32.949 decade or so until the judgment comes down. It's 00:40:32.949 --> 00:40:35.489 been litigated all the way through the Supreme 00:40:35.489 --> 00:40:38.429 Court. And God help us if these jokers are still 00:40:38.429 --> 00:40:41.449 in there then to figure out what reasonable means 00:40:41.449 --> 00:40:44.699 in this context. So for comparison, I wanted 00:40:44.699 --> 00:40:50.000 to think about another complex machinery, which 00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.920 is called a satellite or a missile or a launch 00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:55.260 vehicle, because I'm more familiar with that. 00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:59.940 And there's a standard for how to make them safe 00:40:59.940 --> 00:41:03.539 and how to make them workable, which is called 00:41:03.539 --> 00:41:07.539 the, you're clicking to it right now, handy title. 00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:10.179 It sounds like something out of Dr. Strangelove, 00:41:10.300 --> 00:41:13.199 how to make a missile safe. It is, kind of. It's 00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:16.260 Space and Missile Systems Center standard test 00:41:16.260 --> 00:41:18.920 requirements for launch, upper stage, and space 00:41:18.920 --> 00:41:22.019 vehicles. So these are machines with comparable 00:41:22.019 --> 00:41:26.019 complexity to the self -driving vehicles. And 00:41:26.019 --> 00:41:31.480 it's possible to put on paper the numerical standards 00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:36.800 for how to make this acceptably safe for operation 00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:40.960 in a vicinity of people or space. universe or 00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:47.059 whatever so i looked up the word reasonable in 00:41:47.059 --> 00:41:51.980 that standard ladies and gentlemen if you want 00:41:51.980 --> 00:41:55.400 fred at your next children's birthday party but 00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:59.400 it's 127 pages and it is rocket science okay 00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:04.599 so um i i recommend this to anybody who really 00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:07.559 wants to get a lot of sleep because it's It's 00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:10.780 hard to go through. But anyway, out of 127 pages 00:42:10.780 --> 00:42:13.699 of standards, including purpose application, 00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:16.820 baseline requirements, tailoring, yada, yada, 00:42:16.820 --> 00:42:21.159 yada. I was surprised to find that the word reasonable 00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:25.300 does come up. And it comes up in one instance 00:42:25.300 --> 00:42:28.260 where it talks about a test description. And 00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:31.400 it says one or more units shall be operated under 00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:33.440 conditions that simulate their service conditions. 00:42:34.269 --> 00:42:36.550 Service conditions define the operational environment 00:42:36.550 --> 00:42:39.429 in which the unit is expected to operate. That 00:42:39.429 --> 00:42:42.510 sounds a lot like a test environment for an AV, 00:42:42.690 --> 00:42:45.469 actually, doesn't it? As such, it is reasonable 00:42:45.469 --> 00:42:48.190 to demonstrate the condition when the unit is 00:42:48.190 --> 00:42:51.769 in an active and operational mode. That's it. 00:42:52.530 --> 00:42:56.269 That's how far reasonable it goes when you're 00:42:56.269 --> 00:42:58.349 into rocket science and you're building a missile 00:42:58.349 --> 00:43:03.800 or a satellite before the customer. which is 00:43:03.800 --> 00:43:06.940 the U .S. government, will accept that it is 00:43:06.940 --> 00:43:13.320 safe for operation. So I think that we should 00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:17.340 really abandon this whole idea, however impractical 00:43:17.340 --> 00:43:20.380 it may be to advocate that, that absence of unreasonable 00:43:20.380 --> 00:43:24.460 risk is a useful parameter for designing in the 00:43:24.460 --> 00:43:28.519 safety of self -driving vehicles. It's not a 00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:32.860 benchmark. It's not a standard because it's flexible 00:43:32.860 --> 00:43:35.000 by its nature. Is that what we're saying here? 00:43:35.300 --> 00:43:39.159 Well, engineers should be embarrassed to talk 00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:42.340 about reasonableness as a way to design something. 00:43:42.940 --> 00:43:45.099 Hard to put that on your slide rule. It doesn't 00:43:45.099 --> 00:43:48.960 have any reasonable detent on it. You got to 00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:50.519 turn it over. And that's kind of what I was trying 00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:52.219 to get at, but may not have succeeded at getting 00:43:52.219 --> 00:43:54.619 at earlier, talking about NHTSA's recall process, 00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:57.519 like evaluation. There is no arithmetic behind 00:43:57.519 --> 00:44:01.980 it all, right? There's not a, you know, we've 00:44:01.980 --> 00:44:04.280 hit this threshold. This has to be a recall. 00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:06.519 You know, they kind of, it's kind of a look at 00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:10.230 all of the circumstances and, you know. Different 00:44:10.230 --> 00:44:12.829 administrations will see problems differently, 00:44:12.969 --> 00:44:16.250 safety issues differently. And it allows for 00:44:16.250 --> 00:44:18.730 that kind of political flexibility. But I think 00:44:18.730 --> 00:44:21.389 it leads to a lot of confusion. You know, where's 00:44:21.389 --> 00:44:23.989 that hard line when a vehicle needs to be recalled? 00:44:24.610 --> 00:44:26.550 Yeah. And the other thing it does is it pushes 00:44:26.550 --> 00:44:30.090 the whole problem down the road years because 00:44:30.090 --> 00:44:33.650 it's going to go into litigation. It's going 00:44:33.650 --> 00:44:36.150 to wait for a judge somewhere to make a judgment 00:44:36.150 --> 00:44:39.710 and a jury and who knows what. In the interim, 00:44:39.949 --> 00:44:43.090 whatever the defect was that caused the death 00:44:43.090 --> 00:44:45.550 of somebody or the terrible injury of somebody 00:44:45.550 --> 00:44:50.250 can still be produced, implemented, and put out 00:44:50.250 --> 00:44:54.690 in the field. So we really need NHTSA, and there's 00:44:54.690 --> 00:44:57.769 no one else who can do this, to start working 00:44:57.769 --> 00:45:02.190 on a standard that becomes part of the certification 00:45:02.190 --> 00:45:07.619 process for self -driving vehicles. Throwing 00:45:07.619 --> 00:45:11.599 down, you know, throwing open the doors and waiting 00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:15.340 10 or 20 years for a judge somewhere to make 00:45:15.340 --> 00:45:20.019 a judgment after a catastrophe bad enough to 00:45:20.019 --> 00:45:23.480 force people to make that judgment. So that's 00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:27.139 that's it for today. Well, thanks for sharing. 00:45:27.300 --> 00:45:30.000 I thought, Michael, I thought a recall was decided 00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:33.579 is automatically is if the name badge said Ford. 00:45:35.099 --> 00:45:39.960 Oh, come on. You're killing them. Jim Farley, 00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:42.199 you're welcome as a guest anytime you'd like. 00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:44.800 We didn't have a Ford recall this week. Well, 00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:46.960 let's find out. Let's do recalls. There was one. 00:45:47.079 --> 00:45:51.360 I left it out. Oh, you. OK. Recall time. First 00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:54.760 up, Chrysler. Sixty one thousand seven hundred 00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:58.260 and eleven vehicles. The 2019 to 2023 Jeep Cherokee. 00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:03.050 An internally. failed PTU can cause an unexpected 00:46:03.050 --> 00:46:05.610 and unrecoverable... What's a PTU? I don't know. 00:46:05.690 --> 00:46:07.889 It's three letters. It's a power transfer unit. 00:46:08.030 --> 00:46:09.650 Of course, everyone knows about it. And this 00:46:09.650 --> 00:46:12.769 is a two -speed power transfer unit. And this 00:46:12.769 --> 00:46:15.369 loss of failed power transfer unit can cause 00:46:15.369 --> 00:46:17.789 an unexpected and unrecoverable loss of motive 00:46:17.789 --> 00:46:21.230 power at any speed or rolling in park. What is... 00:46:21.230 --> 00:46:23.809 Oh, so I'm in park and the car will roll. Is 00:46:23.809 --> 00:46:25.150 that what it means? Where it's like rolling in 00:46:25.150 --> 00:46:27.989 park, like the South Philly slide where you don't 00:46:27.989 --> 00:46:29.309 really come to a stop. Yeah, when you put your 00:46:29.309 --> 00:46:31.829 car into park, it locks the transmission. When 00:46:31.829 --> 00:46:33.989 you put it on the emergency brake, it locks the 00:46:33.989 --> 00:46:38.010 wheels. So if you are locking the transmission 00:46:38.010 --> 00:46:40.349 by putting it in park, but the transmission is 00:46:40.349 --> 00:46:42.789 broken, which is what this is talking about, 00:46:42.989 --> 00:46:45.929 then your car can roll away. See, back in the 00:46:45.929 --> 00:46:47.869 day, you used to have a handbrake. And so you'd 00:46:47.869 --> 00:46:50.329 pull that up first while you're still in drive 00:46:50.329 --> 00:46:55.550 and then put it in park. But my modern cars don't 00:46:55.550 --> 00:46:57.070 have that. There's like a little park button 00:46:57.070 --> 00:46:58.690 thing. I've never touched it. And I put it in 00:46:58.690 --> 00:47:00.630 park and that light goes on. So I guess it puts 00:47:00.630 --> 00:47:02.289 on the parking brake. I don't know how it works 00:47:02.289 --> 00:47:05.309 these days. Well, that's pretty much how it works. 00:47:05.389 --> 00:47:08.610 You turn it on and it works. It's kind of like 00:47:08.610 --> 00:47:11.809 a switch, Anthony. Yeah. You may have seen those. 00:47:11.869 --> 00:47:15.590 I like the handle where it goes. I had a friend 00:47:15.590 --> 00:47:17.900 who used to. Love that handle, because when he's 00:47:17.900 --> 00:47:19.980 going around a corner, he pulled the handle up. 00:47:20.019 --> 00:47:21.659 Suddenly, he could break traction on the rear 00:47:21.659 --> 00:47:24.880 wheels, and he'd spin around. Yep. So that was 00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:29.000 fun. Pay turns. Fun. High speed. All right. That 00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:31.139 one's going to be delayed, it looks like, too. 00:47:32.940 --> 00:47:35.780 Chrysler says that the remedy is under development 00:47:35.780 --> 00:47:38.639 and they're going to give owners an interim notification 00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:42.219 in about a month. But that may just tell you 00:47:42.219 --> 00:47:44.239 that the recall has been delayed and that you'll 00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:46.300 be probably is going to tell you that the recall 00:47:46.300 --> 00:47:48.019 has been delayed and that you will hear about 00:47:48.019 --> 00:47:50.340 it at some later date. Well, I looked it up. 00:47:50.380 --> 00:47:52.380 This turns out to be a very complex piece of 00:47:52.380 --> 00:47:56.599 machinery. It's like a transfer case that they 00:47:56.599 --> 00:47:58.420 used to have in the old days to just move things 00:47:58.420 --> 00:48:01.420 from the front to the rear wheels. But it also 00:48:01.420 --> 00:48:05.599 includes clutches and sensors and comparative 00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:10.699 measurement of the wheels, rotational speed, 00:48:10.840 --> 00:48:14.199 and yada, yada, yada. So it's pretty much your 00:48:14.199 --> 00:48:17.440 basic nightmare. That's not involving my nightmare. 00:48:17.539 --> 00:48:19.800 I'm not going to get into my nightmare. Next 00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:22.739 up, a recall from a little artificial intelligence 00:48:22.739 --> 00:48:26.260 rocket company called Tesla. They're not a rocket 00:48:26.260 --> 00:48:29.219 company yet. Oh, well, whatever nonsense. 218 00:48:29.219 --> 00:48:32.820 ,868 vehicles. Oh no, they can't be recalled. 00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:38.440 2023 Model Y, 2022 Model Y, 2021 Model Y. I don't 00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:40.679 know why they're all separate. 2020 Model Y, 00:48:40.820 --> 00:48:45.039 2023 Model X, 2022 Model X, 2021 Model X, 2023 00:48:45.039 --> 00:48:49.940 Model S. You got a Tesla, just drive it into 00:48:49.940 --> 00:48:55.170 a ditch. Loss of the rear view car. Ah, of course. 00:48:55.829 --> 00:48:58.170 You know, we disappear for a couple weeks and 00:48:58.170 --> 00:49:00.190 this is how you do me. Loss of the rear view 00:49:00.190 --> 00:49:02.150 camera image may affect the driver's rear view 00:49:02.150 --> 00:49:04.949 and increase the risk of a collision. The driver 00:49:04.949 --> 00:49:06.690 may continue to reverse the vehicle by performing 00:49:06.690 --> 00:49:09.510 a shoulder check and using their mirrors. Wait, 00:49:09.570 --> 00:49:11.670 who wrote that part? Who wrote that part in the 00:49:11.670 --> 00:49:13.650 recall notice saying, hey, as a driver, you can 00:49:13.650 --> 00:49:15.849 turn your neck and look around behind you? Did 00:49:15.849 --> 00:49:19.809 Tesla write that or did NHTSA write that? Tesla 00:49:19.809 --> 00:49:23.230 writes these that. OK, plus one for them. That's 00:49:23.230 --> 00:49:27.710 a great sense of humor. I love that. Yep. Yeah. 00:49:27.809 --> 00:49:30.530 So what what is this is over the air? Is this 00:49:30.530 --> 00:49:32.389 the. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what something 00:49:32.389 --> 00:49:34.230 I wanted to point out. But that's when, you know, 00:49:34.250 --> 00:49:37.090 we don't usually have to talk about owners and 00:49:37.090 --> 00:49:39.150 delays on recalls when it's one of these over 00:49:39.150 --> 00:49:43.610 the air updates. So they started. pushing this 00:49:43.610 --> 00:49:47.130 OTA software remedy out on April 11th, 2026, 00:49:47.269 --> 00:49:52.750 and they filed this late. They could be fined 00:49:52.750 --> 00:49:55.369 for filing this on May 4th, because that's way 00:49:55.369 --> 00:49:58.530 past the time there should be notifying NHTSA 00:49:58.530 --> 00:50:02.369 that there's a defect in their vehicles. But 00:50:02.369 --> 00:50:06.150 at this point, 99 .92 % of the population has 00:50:06.150 --> 00:50:09.190 already received the firmware fixing, hopefully, 00:50:09.309 --> 00:50:14.639 this problem. All in all, you know, that's pretty 00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:17.739 good recall performance on repair, not so much 00:50:17.739 --> 00:50:19.880 on the notification side of things from Tesla. 00:50:20.360 --> 00:50:23.239 Painful. Maybe, you know, dear leader was busy 00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:26.059 in a lawsuit that he dreamt up. Yeah, maybe so. 00:50:26.179 --> 00:50:28.119 If you're an owner, they're going to notify you 00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:31.739 sometime in July. I don't know why their recall 00:50:31.739 --> 00:50:36.099 process is so odd. Just for my own satisfaction, 00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:38.340 can you say what was the name of that month again? 00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:43.340 July. Oh, I enjoy the way you say the word July. 00:50:43.539 --> 00:50:46.900 July. All right. Proper southern gentleman. He's 00:50:46.900 --> 00:50:48.599 wearing a seersucker suit while he said that. 00:50:48.880 --> 00:50:50.780 Hey, what do you need to use when the rain's 00:50:50.780 --> 00:50:57.000 in July? Your umbrella. Ah, okay. Enough of this 00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:03.579 nonsense. Next up, Mercedes. 144 ,049 vehicles. 00:51:03.619 --> 00:51:09.619 The 2026 AMG GLC43. 2025. Some other ridiculous 00:51:09.619 --> 00:51:13.719 AMG E53 E4 Matic Plus. Just stop it. Yeah, no. 00:51:13.840 --> 00:51:15.039 None of our listeners want to hear you pronounce 00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:15.880 it. Oh, my God, it keeps going on. There's like 00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:18.739 10 pages of them. Yeah. Oh, it doesn't end. It 00:51:18.739 --> 00:51:21.219 keeps going. I mean, if you're going to spend, 00:51:21.420 --> 00:51:25.519 these vehicles are what? Minimum $70 ,000? Can't 00:51:25.519 --> 00:51:27.340 you at least, you know, get better? Oh, it just, 00:51:27.420 --> 00:51:31.199 I keep scrolling, people. It doesn't end. If 00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:34.199 you have a Mercedes. Essentially, they're losing. 00:51:35.369 --> 00:51:38.250 You're losing a display here. Is it a rear view 00:51:38.250 --> 00:51:41.070 camera? No. Well, I don't know if the rear view 00:51:41.070 --> 00:51:43.389 camera is potentially part of it, but it's essentially 00:51:43.389 --> 00:51:48.769 your dashboard. Oh, that's not good. And, you 00:51:48.769 --> 00:51:50.949 know, it was a new software version that they 00:51:50.949 --> 00:51:55.110 introduced in August that caused this. So that 00:51:55.110 --> 00:52:01.300 is the issue here. Mercedes is. doing this as 00:52:01.300 --> 00:52:03.599 an OTA campaign as well. So this is something 00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:06.800 owners should be receiving notice of through 00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:09.639 their vehicle. And it looks like they'll hear 00:52:09.639 --> 00:52:13.099 more about it in June, late June. But I don't 00:52:13.099 --> 00:52:15.980 know how, it's hard to tell with these OTA recalls 00:52:15.980 --> 00:52:19.199 exactly when the campaign is beginning or ending 00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:22.639 or will take place. Yeah, from the notice, during 00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:25.079 the brief period the reset is in process, the 00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:27.480 instrument cluster may not display certain driving 00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:30.420 related information. That's a little vague. Is 00:52:30.420 --> 00:52:32.500 it my speed? Is it the outside air temperature? 00:52:32.719 --> 00:52:35.599 What is it not displaying? My tachyometer? And 00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:38.579 I'll point out, and I was hoping that a manufacturer 00:52:38.579 --> 00:52:41.139 that usually takes some of the care that Mercedes 00:52:41.139 --> 00:52:45.239 does on some of these safety issues, it's because 00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:48.239 there's a connection, it appears, between the 00:52:48.239 --> 00:52:51.599 infotainment system and safety systems, which 00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:56.239 is pet peeve. Last up, a company called Wamo 00:52:56.239 --> 00:53:02.420 LLC. Fifth and sixth generation ADS. On higher 00:53:02.420 --> 00:53:05.079 speed roadways, the Waymo AV may slow but not 00:53:05.079 --> 00:53:09.300 stop in response to detecting a potentially untransversable 00:53:09.300 --> 00:53:12.960 flooded lane. Or, as we've seen in footage, a 00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:17.659 puddle. It will just stop. So puddles be damned. 00:53:17.739 --> 00:53:19.880 So you don't even need the orange cones to put 00:53:19.880 --> 00:53:22.280 on the front of these cars. Just empty your water 00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:24.199 bottle in front of a Waymo, and it'll just be 00:53:24.199 --> 00:53:27.070 like, I can't move anymore. That's funny. Well, 00:53:27.230 --> 00:53:29.590 I think you need to read this carefully. It says 00:53:29.590 --> 00:53:34.010 untransversable. So what that means is that it 00:53:34.010 --> 00:53:38.090 will slowly enter water that it will not be able 00:53:38.090 --> 00:53:40.809 to navigate. Unless there's a school bus in front 00:53:40.809 --> 00:53:42.630 of it with its stop arm out, then it just says, 00:53:42.670 --> 00:53:45.849 yeah, let's just go for it. That's true. The 00:53:45.849 --> 00:53:49.789 school bus is floating. Yeah, good. With that, 00:53:49.809 --> 00:53:53.329 listeners, thank you for being with us here today. 00:53:54.110 --> 00:53:56.929 On the hottest day. Hey, you stopped at investigations. 00:53:57.889 --> 00:53:59.590 Do I have to do the investigation? There's apparently 00:53:59.590 --> 00:54:02.650 a WeMill competitor in there. All right. What's 00:54:02.650 --> 00:54:04.789 the investigation you want me to do? Let's open 00:54:04.789 --> 00:54:07.269 an investigation. I think it was maybe a week 00:54:07.269 --> 00:54:10.409 ago. All right. Let's take a look. It's AV Ride 00:54:10.409 --> 00:54:13.190 Inc., which is apparently the company that Uber 00:54:13.190 --> 00:54:16.690 is working with. They've been having some crashes. 00:54:16.949 --> 00:54:20.989 I think they had like 16. In the first four months 00:54:20.989 --> 00:54:23.989 of operation there. Wait, in the report, it lists 00:54:23.989 --> 00:54:28.030 crashes slash fires as one line. That seems like 00:54:28.030 --> 00:54:30.289 a weird combination. Why wouldn't they separate 00:54:30.289 --> 00:54:33.769 those out? Crashes, fires, not crashes slash 00:54:33.769 --> 00:54:36.289 fire. This could be because they're tracking 00:54:36.289 --> 00:54:39.550 them. Like if a vehicle catches on fire and nobody's 00:54:39.550 --> 00:54:41.489 in it and in your driveway, they count them. 00:54:41.960 --> 00:54:44.119 in that same line yeah but that's where i would 00:54:44.119 --> 00:54:45.880 i would want that they don't do that on the back 00:54:45.880 --> 00:54:47.780 on the back end that's just their way of kind 00:54:47.780 --> 00:54:50.179 of summary because because some some investigations 00:54:50.179 --> 00:54:54.099 will be the incidents are going to be fires some 00:54:54.099 --> 00:54:55.699 investigations the incidents are going to be 00:54:55.699 --> 00:54:58.820 crashes some are going to be both so okay so 00:54:58.820 --> 00:55:01.460 since fred insisted on this investigation discussion 00:55:01.460 --> 00:55:06.000 what uh what do we need to know here Essentially, 00:55:06.139 --> 00:55:10.840 the Uber's company is being investigated for 00:55:10.840 --> 00:55:13.239 a number of crashes, and they're very similar 00:55:13.239 --> 00:55:15.940 to what we've already seen, like changing lanes 00:55:15.940 --> 00:55:19.219 when there's a vehicle in close proximity, failing 00:55:19.219 --> 00:55:22.880 to slow or stop for other vehicles in the lane 00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:25.119 ahead. That's a problem. Automatic emergency 00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:27.900 braking should be doing that on the basic cars. 00:55:28.139 --> 00:55:31.519 AVs shouldn't be having that problem. um striking 00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:34.139 stationary objects in the lane and path ahead 00:55:34.139 --> 00:55:38.119 again um so those have there been some property 00:55:38.119 --> 00:55:41.260 damage and minor injuries nothing serious yet 00:55:41.260 --> 00:55:43.599 but well there are a couple of videos a couple 00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:47.480 of videos that showed the av rides being stopped 00:55:47.480 --> 00:55:50.679 at a red light and then uh they spontaneously 00:55:50.679 --> 00:55:52.860 decided to drive through the red light making 00:55:52.860 --> 00:55:55.860 left hand turns even though it was still red 00:55:55.860 --> 00:55:59.889 so that's uh That's not good behavior either. 00:56:00.010 --> 00:56:02.309 No. That sounds like people in my neighborhood. 00:56:02.449 --> 00:56:07.949 Can I recall them? Sure. Okay. I can't comment 00:56:07.949 --> 00:56:09.829 on that. That's fine. I think they've all come 00:56:09.829 --> 00:56:11.989 up to Beckett to spend the summer. So yeah, please 00:56:11.989 --> 00:56:15.489 do recall them. Lovely. Fred, is the show over 00:56:15.489 --> 00:56:19.880 now? You have my permission. Okay, excellent. 00:56:20.039 --> 00:56:22.079 Thanks, listeners. Remember, when you're at the 00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:24.780 Piggly Wiggly listening to this, go to autosafety 00:56:24.780 --> 00:56:26.820 .org, click donate. Fred will come to your house 00:56:26.820 --> 00:56:29.820 and sing karaoke with you on his horse. Until 00:56:29.820 --> 00:56:33.619 next time, bye. Bye -bye. For more information, 00:56:33.780 --> 00:56:36.719 visit www .autosafety .org.