WEBVTT 00:00:01.960 --> 00:00:05.559 You're listening to There Auto Be A Law, the 00:00:05.559 --> 00:00:08.240 Center for Auto Safety podcast with Executive 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:11.720 Director Michael Brooks, Chief Engineer Fred 00:00:11.720 --> 00:00:15.640 Perkins, and hosted by me, Anthony Cimino. For 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:18.300 over 50 years, the Center for Auto Safety has 00:00:18.300 --> 00:00:25.000 worked to make cars safer. Hey, everybody. Welcome 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:28.140 to another episode. Today is Tuesday, March 31st. 00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:29.960 Keep in mind, we're recording this on Tuesday, 00:00:30.100 --> 00:00:33.520 March 31st. This is not an April Fool's Day episode. 00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:37.200 I mean, yes, there'll be nonsense, but none of 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:40.700 it is made up. It's unofficial nonsense. Well, 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:43.119 that's just my role on this. So anyway, thanks 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:46.399 for joining us, listeners. Let's start off with 00:00:46.399 --> 00:00:50.460 the Institute for Insurance. And I can't. Oh, 00:00:50.579 --> 00:00:55.520 God. You know, I can't do anything. IIHS. There 00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:59.479 you go. Okay. Keep it simple. Yeah. They have 00:00:59.479 --> 00:01:02.100 an article, safety benefits stack up from driver 00:01:02.100 --> 00:01:05.060 assistance features. So what these guys did is 00:01:05.060 --> 00:01:06.980 they went through, because they're really good 00:01:06.980 --> 00:01:09.359 at research, and they said, hey, how much does 00:01:09.359 --> 00:01:12.560 AEB plus seatbelts, plus all these other things, 00:01:12.620 --> 00:01:15.819 how does it help reduce injuries? And basically 00:01:15.819 --> 00:01:18.359 one of their headlines. They didn't look at seatbelts. 00:01:18.359 --> 00:01:20.500 They didn't look at seatbelts. Look, this is, 00:01:20.540 --> 00:01:23.159 you know, A, B, but seatbelts are part of it, 00:01:23.180 --> 00:01:26.120 right? Look, it's driver assistance features. 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:30.140 Yes, seatbelts are tangentially going to be, 00:01:30.260 --> 00:01:32.840 you know, associated with what they're looking 00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:35.340 at in insurance claim frequencies here. However, 00:01:35.500 --> 00:01:37.859 what they're really looking at here are the driver 00:01:37.859 --> 00:01:41.739 assistance features, specific ones, you know, 00:01:41.799 --> 00:01:45.519 automatic emergency braking. lane departure warning 00:01:45.519 --> 00:01:49.040 um prevention lane departure prevention pedestrian 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:53.159 aeb rear automatic emergency braking all these 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:54.959 sorts of things and they're looking at you know 00:01:56.160 --> 00:01:58.840 So they're basically looking at Mazda vehicles 00:01:58.840 --> 00:02:00.959 and they started looking at them, I think, around, 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:04.900 I want to say 2011, maybe it was 2015 model year 00:02:04.900 --> 00:02:08.180 where these features were starting to be introduced. 00:02:08.419 --> 00:02:10.159 They've looked at them, you know, kind of over 00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:13.819 time and noticed that as more of these things 00:02:13.819 --> 00:02:16.620 are bundled together, the the insurance claims 00:02:16.620 --> 00:02:19.639 go down because they are preventing crashes. 00:02:20.620 --> 00:02:22.560 That's the short of it. Yeah. One of the things 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:24.680 they mentioned is people get concerned with these 00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:26.319 modern vehicles that are a lot more expensive 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:28.860 to repair if you get into an accident because 00:02:28.860 --> 00:02:30.439 they've got all these sensors and the bumpers 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:33.860 and cameras. And so quoting from this says, if 00:02:33.860 --> 00:02:36.000 you're worried about rising repair costs, the 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:37.860 smartest thing you can do is get a vehicle with 00:02:37.860 --> 00:02:41.780 rear AEB and make sure it is turned on, which 00:02:41.780 --> 00:02:44.060 I think is hilarious because make sure your car 00:02:44.060 --> 00:02:46.819 has more sensors in it that are more the ends 00:02:46.819 --> 00:02:50.370 of the cost of repair. But I was in a car once 00:02:50.370 --> 00:02:53.530 with a head rear AEB and it annoyed me at first 00:02:53.530 --> 00:02:54.909 because I wasn't ready for it. But then I really 00:02:54.909 --> 00:02:59.030 appreciate it. Yeah, I mean, all these systems 00:02:59.030 --> 00:03:05.689 are there, you know, there still is not a federal 00:03:05.689 --> 00:03:09.860 rule in place that's guiding. the development 00:03:09.860 --> 00:03:12.319 or the safety of any of these systems. The automatic 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:15.780 emergency braking rule was put into effect by 00:03:15.780 --> 00:03:18.599 NHTSA. However, it is under challenge, I guess, 00:03:18.620 --> 00:03:22.060 both by the current NHTSA and by automakers who 00:03:22.060 --> 00:03:25.860 filed suit to stop it. There are no rules on 00:03:25.860 --> 00:03:28.759 lane departure warning on adaptive cruise control, 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:31.319 lane departure prevention, pedestrian AAB, rear 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:33.840 AAB, driver attention alert, driver monitoring. 00:03:34.860 --> 00:03:37.860 All of these things kind of exist in a realm 00:03:37.860 --> 00:03:40.479 where they could be very different from manufacturer 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:44.300 to manufacturer. So, you know, the HLDI study 00:03:44.300 --> 00:03:47.680 here is looking specifically at Mazda vehicles 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:52.240 and judging, you know, the rate of decline in 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:56.000 insurance claims in those vehicles as evidence 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:58.860 that, you know, these features overall are helping 00:03:58.860 --> 00:04:03.099 safety on our roads. obviously could be an objection 00:04:03.099 --> 00:04:05.199 here that some manufacturers don't do as well 00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:07.939 as others, which I think is a fair objection. 00:04:08.099 --> 00:04:10.500 And that, you know, some, you know, for instance, 00:04:10.620 --> 00:04:13.080 adaptive cruise controllers here, well, you know, 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:15.300 we have concerns about certain adaptive cruise 00:04:15.300 --> 00:04:17.860 controls that, you know, tend to convince the 00:04:17.860 --> 00:04:20.980 drivers that they are driving a vehicle that's 00:04:20.980 --> 00:04:25.120 autonomous and lead to complacency and, you know. 00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:28.639 crashes because of the technology's presence. 00:04:28.759 --> 00:04:31.980 So there still remain concerns, but I think overall, 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:34.899 you know, it's a good look at how this technology 00:04:34.899 --> 00:04:39.040 is advancing safety. I will add that, you know, 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:40.860 I think a lot of these technologies could advance 00:04:40.860 --> 00:04:43.800 safety even more if there were minimum safety 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:47.279 standards that adhere to them and required manufacturers 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:53.579 to put a certain level of good ADS in their vehicles. 00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:58.740 I also want to point out there are certain bewildered 00:04:58.740 --> 00:05:02.120 United States presidents and legislators who 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.540 are saying that, well, this is why cars are so 00:05:05.540 --> 00:05:07.220 expensive because you've got all these whiz -bang 00:05:07.220 --> 00:05:09.279 protective devices in them, so let's get rid 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:12.339 of them. But the truth is, cars are so expensive 00:05:12.339 --> 00:05:15.139 because of the tariffs put in place against Chinese 00:05:15.139 --> 00:05:19.100 vehicles. Cars would be half as expensive and 00:05:19.100 --> 00:05:23.240 have about the same quality if they merely removed... 00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:25.899 the protected tariffs that are currently keeping 00:05:25.899 --> 00:05:28.980 the automobile prices so high. If that were done, 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:31.519 there would be no discussion about removing safety 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:34.980 devices to reduce the cost of vehicles. So just 00:05:34.980 --> 00:05:38.000 as an aside, I think it's important to maintain 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:40.259 the perspective on what's really driving the 00:05:40.259 --> 00:05:44.759 price of cars for American consumers. And ultimately 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:47.839 here, what these figures are showing is that 00:05:48.079 --> 00:05:52.220 These systems are reducing the claim frequency 00:05:52.220 --> 00:05:56.319 associated with these systems. And so they are 00:05:56.319 --> 00:06:01.180 reducing costs overall, even if they might cost 00:06:01.180 --> 00:06:04.560 something on the front end. Ultimately, they 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:07.240 are providing a benefit that's going to outweigh 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:10.579 the cost to install them or the cost to purchase 00:06:10.579 --> 00:06:12.819 them. So the advice for the consumer is I go 00:06:12.819 --> 00:06:14.819 into a dealership and I want to buy a car and 00:06:14.819 --> 00:06:17.920 there's all these. package add -ons and whatnot 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:20.779 you're saying smart money is if you can afford 00:06:20.779 --> 00:06:23.300 it get the ones with all the safety features 00:06:23.300 --> 00:06:27.800 added in i mean from a simple perspective yes 00:06:27.800 --> 00:06:30.639 however depending on the manufacturer you might 00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:33.199 you know there might be a manufacturer whose 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:35.759 automatic emergency braking doesn't work as well 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:39.139 as what we saw from toyota for instance in the 00:06:39.139 --> 00:06:41.519 evaluations and it's a did of a b in support 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:44.060 of its its automatic emergency braking rule i 00:06:44.060 --> 00:06:49.149 mean It's not as though this is one system that's 00:06:49.149 --> 00:06:51.589 being installed on every vehicle in America and 00:06:51.589 --> 00:06:55.149 works the same way. There are dozens of manufacturers 00:06:55.149 --> 00:06:59.519 making dozens of different systems. So I think 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:01.519 it's important for consumers to understand that 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:05.860 going in and to look to studies like this and 00:07:05.860 --> 00:07:09.620 to some of the other ratings that IHS does around 00:07:09.620 --> 00:07:13.120 ADAS features to determine which manufacturers 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:18.660 are installing really good systems in this area. 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:21.699 I wasn't suggesting at all that anyone go purchase 00:07:21.699 --> 00:07:25.920 a Ford. Because they get recalled all the time. 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:29.240 Well, you know, Ford's got a hearing with the 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:31.740 MTSB today on their Blue Cruise feature, so we'll 00:07:31.740 --> 00:07:34.339 see how that goes. Just wrapping up this article, 00:07:34.420 --> 00:07:36.420 another part I'm going to quote from. In contrast, 00:07:36.540 --> 00:07:38.519 the effects of a feature called traffic sign 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:41.180 recognition were unclear. This feature uses a 00:07:41.180 --> 00:07:43.199 Ford sensing camera or recorded information in 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:45.259 the navigation system to identify and display 00:07:45.259 --> 00:07:48.019 traffic signs such as speed limit and stop signs. 00:07:48.339 --> 00:07:51.560 The lack of a clear benefit may stem from systems 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:53.500 limitations or may simply be the result of a 00:07:53.500 --> 00:07:55.319 small sample size since fewer vehicles are equipped 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:58.040 with it. than other features from a data point 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:01.360 of one garbage my car has something like that 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:07.019 and it's right 70 of the time a for for speed 00:08:07.019 --> 00:08:10.740 limits signs uh it gets confused if you're in 00:08:10.740 --> 00:08:13.120 a construction zone and it just chooses what's 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:14.839 ever on a white sign because i guess that was 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:17.300 only trained on with a black text on a white 00:08:17.300 --> 00:08:19.959 background versus construction signs are more 00:08:19.959 --> 00:08:24.670 orangey black i think right yeah so Not a useful 00:08:24.670 --> 00:08:27.629 feature in my experience. Yeah, and you're seeing 00:08:27.629 --> 00:08:30.149 variations here. Like there was one, I think 00:08:30.149 --> 00:08:32.730 it was the fifth bundle in the IHS study that 00:08:32.730 --> 00:08:35.730 looked at the driver attention alert. You know, 00:08:35.750 --> 00:08:37.450 I think you probably have something similar in 00:08:37.450 --> 00:08:40.610 your Toyota where after a while of driving, it'll 00:08:40.610 --> 00:08:42.970 say, hey, you need a cup of coffee or whatever 00:08:42.970 --> 00:08:44.970 it is it says. You know, do you need to pull 00:08:44.970 --> 00:08:48.210 over? Blah, blah, blah. Mine comes with a little 00:08:48.210 --> 00:08:51.389 cup of bourbon. Hey, you want some bourbon? For 00:08:51.389 --> 00:08:54.409 some reason, they saw that there were raised 00:08:54.409 --> 00:09:00.370 costs in that bundle in the area of bodily injury 00:09:00.370 --> 00:09:05.710 liability. So I don't know. I didn't dive in 00:09:05.710 --> 00:09:07.710 deep enough to figure that one out completely, 00:09:07.889 --> 00:09:09.970 but I do know that these driver retention features 00:09:09.970 --> 00:09:13.090 are kind of all over the place. This is not driver 00:09:13.090 --> 00:09:16.529 monitoring. It's basically – it's similar, somewhat 00:09:16.529 --> 00:09:19.190 similar to driver monitoring. Apparently, you 00:09:19.190 --> 00:09:21.779 hop into the Mazda. And then it studies how you 00:09:21.779 --> 00:09:25.139 drive for 20 minutes and learns you. And then 00:09:25.139 --> 00:09:28.279 as you continue driving, it can detect differences 00:09:28.279 --> 00:09:31.059 in your behavior over time that suggests you're 00:09:31.059 --> 00:09:34.539 not completely paying attention. You know, this 00:09:34.539 --> 00:09:37.620 is in the early days for features like that, 00:09:37.659 --> 00:09:40.759 that can, you know, actively monitor drivers 00:09:40.759 --> 00:09:43.759 and determine when something's going wrong. I 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:46.200 was on a date like that once, I think. Yeah. 00:09:47.519 --> 00:09:49.539 Yeah, she was convinced she learned me within 00:09:49.539 --> 00:09:55.539 20 minutes. And I ejected. Anyway, related to 00:09:55.539 --> 00:10:00.899 IIHS, this is the quoting from an article on 00:10:00.899 --> 00:10:03.860 AOL. Yet in the latest round of crash worthiness 00:10:03.860 --> 00:10:05.980 testing by the Insurance Institute for Highway 00:10:05.980 --> 00:10:07.980 Safety. See, we just spelled out. I know what 00:10:07.980 --> 00:10:10.720 its name is. Not one Detroit brand earned the 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:13.840 highest possible accolade. The top safety pick 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:17.039 plus award. This article is talking about how 00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:20.919 the big three, big two and a half, I guess, automakers 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:25.860 are like, hey, drive our cars big. But they can't 00:10:25.860 --> 00:10:33.659 get safety awards. I don't get it. I think they're 00:10:33.659 --> 00:10:36.139 still building and selling cars to a fictitious 00:10:36.139 --> 00:10:41.500 man from the 1950s. White guy. I think he wanted 00:10:41.500 --> 00:10:45.309 to smoke Marlboro. and ride a horse, but instead 00:10:45.309 --> 00:10:50.730 he's driving a truck to his accounting job. I 00:10:50.730 --> 00:10:54.190 don't even know what that means, but... Neither 00:10:54.190 --> 00:10:56.129 do I. Look, we're recording on a different day. 00:10:56.250 --> 00:11:01.070 You know, the... I mean, it's... I think it makes 00:11:01.070 --> 00:11:04.129 a good... You know, this point is just a good 00:11:04.129 --> 00:11:06.289 argument that American manufacturers aren't keeping 00:11:06.289 --> 00:11:11.129 up. with the changes that IHS is making. IHS 00:11:11.129 --> 00:11:13.330 is making changes to their crash testing and 00:11:13.330 --> 00:11:16.470 their evaluation of vehicle programs a whole 00:11:16.470 --> 00:11:19.169 lot faster than NHTSA. So while you might see 00:11:19.169 --> 00:11:22.330 some of the Detroit manufacturers you know, do 00:11:22.330 --> 00:11:24.629 a little better in some of the crash tests that 00:11:24.629 --> 00:11:28.389 NHTSA administers, IHS is changing them at a 00:11:28.389 --> 00:11:31.610 rate that, you know, ultimately inspires the 00:11:31.610 --> 00:11:34.909 kind of, you know, incentivized safety that we 00:11:34.909 --> 00:11:38.850 want to see the NCAP over at NHTSA doing. You 00:11:38.850 --> 00:11:42.009 know, I think at this point in the evolution 00:11:42.009 --> 00:11:45.090 of both the IHS testing and the NCAP testing, 00:11:45.370 --> 00:11:47.610 you know, we frequently recommend to consumers 00:11:47.610 --> 00:11:52.139 that they Look to the IHS testing because it 00:11:52.139 --> 00:11:55.320 does test vehicles and, you know, some of the 00:11:55.320 --> 00:12:00.559 more modern technology better. NHTSA doesn't 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:02.720 even test a lot of these technologies that we're 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:07.200 talking about like IHS does at this point. You 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:10.220 know, I don't know if Detroit is focused too 00:12:10.220 --> 00:12:13.000 much on passing the NCAP and not IHS or if they're 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:16.100 just not investing appropriately in the types 00:12:16.100 --> 00:12:18.740 of safety measures that the Insurance Institute 00:12:18.740 --> 00:12:21.539 is looking at. Maybe a combination of both. If 00:12:21.539 --> 00:12:24.639 you work for a Detroit automaker, write in, contact 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:27.639 at autosafety .org and tell us what's more important 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:30.200 in your workplace. Is it something called a HEMI 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:32.639 or is it saving people's lives and making their 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:36.519 injuries less important? Or is it Donut Day Tuesdays? 00:12:36.779 --> 00:12:39.279 They give out donuts on Tuesdays? I love a good 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:42.720 donut. It's available, I think. Okay. Hey, Anthony, 00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:44.460 I have a question for you. Please, I'm awake. 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:48.320 Has the war in Iran affected delivery of coffee 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:52.919 to New York City? I'm just curious. Yeah, okay. 00:12:53.559 --> 00:12:57.840 Moving on. The New York Times has an interesting 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:01.720 video we have a link to about, it's titled, Why 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:04.340 Are Women More Likely to Die in Crashes? And 00:13:04.340 --> 00:13:06.179 this is a subject we've covered before. We've 00:13:06.179 --> 00:13:08.679 covered it a number of times about how the crash 00:13:08.679 --> 00:13:11.539 test dummy used is designed for, originally was 00:13:11.539 --> 00:13:14.860 designed for a five foot nine, 170 pound male. 00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:17.519 I think it's that standard changed a little bit 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:21.580 and how they don't test cars for smaller frames, 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:24.840 different frames. And as a result, women get 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:28.480 greater injuries in car crashes. They had more 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:33.529 injuries, more fatalities because. These systems 00:13:33.529 --> 00:13:36.269 are not tested for people who are not the typical 00:13:36.269 --> 00:13:39.269 average male. Fred and I both object to this 00:13:39.269 --> 00:13:44.049 because he's the too tall male and I'm the perfect 00:13:44.049 --> 00:13:48.269 size of a Roman soldier. But this video is pretty 00:13:48.269 --> 00:13:51.629 good. It's fun. It's got some little entertainment 00:13:51.629 --> 00:13:55.529 value to it. But at the same time, it's my gaslight 00:13:55.529 --> 00:13:58.909 of the week. Yes, it is. It is. And I will tell 00:13:58.909 --> 00:14:01.899 you why. OK, because it's good and it goes through 00:14:01.899 --> 00:14:03.940 and explains the whole thing and about how important 00:14:03.940 --> 00:14:06.779 it is and that there's new dummies out there, 00:14:06.820 --> 00:14:09.299 the female dummy, and they should be tested and 00:14:09.299 --> 00:14:12.919 whatnot. And it's the entire time the video is 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:15.620 talked about how cars need to be safer for women. 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:19.379 And then in the end, the filmmaker, a woman, 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:23.500 drives her way in a 1960 something Ford Mustang, 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:28.059 the least safe vehicle for any gender. come on 00:14:28.059 --> 00:14:32.059 this is insane you're complaining about how cars 00:14:32.059 --> 00:14:34.200 are not safe for women and then you get in that 00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:38.240 death trap gaslight i mean wasn't that just for 00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:44.620 show gaslight actually um anyway the i think 00:14:44.620 --> 00:14:47.480 what there's a lot that's that that i mean it's 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:49.559 an easy video to watch i think it explains the 00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:54.129 problem um very well and it also explains and 00:14:54.129 --> 00:14:56.590 goes into some of the gas lighting that the currentness 00:14:56.590 --> 00:14:58.610 is doing around this where they you know come 00:14:58.610 --> 00:15:01.809 out and announce they've produced this female 00:15:01.809 --> 00:15:05.649 dummy but in in actuality the you know as we've 00:15:05.649 --> 00:15:09.370 talked about many times the process for instrumenting 00:15:09.370 --> 00:15:13.590 and certifying these dummies takes a very very 00:15:13.590 --> 00:15:19.289 long time um i don't know if it's feasible um 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:24.740 long -term for a dummy to be produced that represents, 00:15:24.740 --> 00:15:28.039 you know, every different type of body and size. 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.679 And can we, can NHTSA afford to crash test, you 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:35.120 know, multiple vehicles from the same model in 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:37.539 order to put passengers of different sizes and 00:15:37.539 --> 00:15:39.970 different positions in the car? All that stuff 00:15:39.970 --> 00:15:42.750 gets really expensive. NHTSA's NCAP budget has 00:15:42.750 --> 00:15:45.110 been slashed dramatically to the point where 00:15:45.110 --> 00:15:47.049 I'm concerned they can't even afford enough cars 00:15:47.049 --> 00:15:50.610 to test, much less, you know, have the programs 00:15:50.610 --> 00:15:53.190 and facilities around to test them accurately. 00:15:53.830 --> 00:15:56.549 So there are a lot of problems in the NCAP program. 00:15:56.870 --> 00:15:59.269 There's a lot of problems in crash testing, and 00:15:59.269 --> 00:16:00.809 there's a lot of problems in NHTSA regulations 00:16:00.809 --> 00:16:04.649 that apply to how protective vehicles are of 00:16:04.649 --> 00:16:08.049 different body types. So there is a lot to address 00:16:08.049 --> 00:16:11.730 here. Ultimately, are dummies the solution? Maybe 00:16:11.730 --> 00:16:14.389 they're part of it, but also I think there's, 00:16:14.389 --> 00:16:17.779 you know. They're very limited crash circumstances 00:16:17.779 --> 00:16:21.600 that are tested in NHTSA testing, even in IHS 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:25.279 testing. You can't test for every single type 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:27.440 of crash from every direction. There's almost 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:30.559 an infinite number of possibilities there. And 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:34.019 I think ultimately, long term, we really need 00:16:34.019 --> 00:16:38.919 to dive into simulation to get a lot more understanding 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:41.620 of how the bodies work here versus building physical 00:16:41.620 --> 00:16:43.779 crash dummies that represent every single body 00:16:43.779 --> 00:16:47.600 type. Do you think that sounds right, Fred? I 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:52.919 think it sounds right. Well, part of the engineering 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.779 religion is that every simulation is doomed to 00:16:55.779 --> 00:17:00.700 succeed. Right. That's a problem. And the amount 00:17:00.700 --> 00:17:04.059 of computing power that is required to do a full 00:17:04.059 --> 00:17:07.599 -scale simulation of a human being in a vehicle 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:10.359 that's being crashed against a wall is astounding. 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:14.319 I'm not sure that... If you could even load it 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:17.539 into one of these data farms, what are they called? 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:22.119 Data, big data things. If you could take one 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:26.420 of those over, you could probably start down 00:17:26.420 --> 00:17:30.039 that road. But it's going to be a long time before 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:34.160 you've got a model that works in a computer that 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:36.559 is validated for different body types and different 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:39.319 vehicles. So it's an enormous computing problem. 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:42.920 And when those companies can sell bullshit instead 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:45.859 of selling facts, the bullshit's always going 00:17:45.859 --> 00:17:51.319 to win because it's a lot more margin. So yes, 00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:56.839 it's a great idea. It's going to take much longer 00:17:56.839 --> 00:18:00.119 than just building the test devices, putting 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:04.400 them in cars, and trying them out. So that's 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:07.500 good news and bad news. Is anyone going down 00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:09.240 that road, Michael, with that type of simulation? 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:11.859 Because one of the things that that is missing 00:18:11.859 --> 00:18:15.319 in all of the crashes from NHTSA and IIHS is, 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:18.099 you know, they'll have a dummy in the front seat. 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:20.039 They'll have a dummy in the rear seat. Great. 00:18:20.539 --> 00:18:23.839 But I'm rarely in a car where it's just people 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:25.880 that are loose. There's groceries that are loose. 00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:28.740 There's random objects that are in there. And 00:18:28.740 --> 00:18:31.839 that's, I think, more realistic and a much harder 00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:35.210 problem to solve for. But I don't. I mean, if 00:18:35.210 --> 00:18:37.589 you can get to a simulation that's even 80 % 00:18:37.589 --> 00:18:40.029 accurate, that probably clears out a lot of issues. 00:18:41.210 --> 00:18:44.450 I think virtually every manufacturer is using 00:18:44.450 --> 00:18:48.890 some type of simulation in developing their vehicles. 00:18:49.130 --> 00:18:52.210 Yeah, they do. So here's the technical side of 00:18:52.210 --> 00:18:56.630 that, okay? Every simulation, every computer 00:18:56.630 --> 00:18:59.069 simulation that uses a finite element technology 00:18:59.069 --> 00:19:03.259 of one kind or another, Starts with what are 00:19:03.259 --> 00:19:05.039 called boundary conditions, right? You've got 00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:07.700 to have a technical description of what's happening 00:19:07.700 --> 00:19:10.859 at the beginning of the simulation. And then 00:19:10.859 --> 00:19:13.599 you run the simulation and you get some results. 00:19:14.500 --> 00:19:17.740 There's an infinite array of boundary conditions. 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:22.180 You know, you've got an object in the back. Okay, 00:19:22.259 --> 00:19:25.140 that's fine. How is that object oriented? Whatever 00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:28.000 its degrees of freedom, where are they pointing? 00:19:28.180 --> 00:19:31.900 So even to just look at that and say, I'm just 00:19:31.900 --> 00:19:33.619 going to have a baseball glove in the back seat 00:19:33.619 --> 00:19:36.599 to see where it goes. You're going to say, okay, 00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:38.579 how are you going to put the baseball glove in 00:19:38.579 --> 00:19:40.119 there? You're going to have it strapped. You're 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:41.400 going to have it in a container. Is it going 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:44.180 to be upside down, the right side up? It goes 00:19:44.180 --> 00:19:49.640 on and on and on. So you're never going to have 00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:54.599 resolution on every possible situation that can 00:19:54.599 --> 00:19:57.680 happen in a car. What you need to do is to settle 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:02.059 on some critical criteria. put them into the 00:20:02.059 --> 00:20:05.920 simulation, run a test, and then compare it with 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:08.019 an actual result. That's called validating the 00:20:08.019 --> 00:20:13.059 results of the simulation. That is at least as 00:20:13.059 --> 00:20:16.140 expensive as running the test alone in the first 00:20:16.140 --> 00:20:20.160 place. And it requires enormous amounts of engineering 00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:24.180 judgment and a lot of smart people to set it 00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:28.099 up and make it happen. Don't think it's easy. 00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:29.660 Don't think it's easy to say you're going to 00:20:29.660 --> 00:20:32.559 do a simulation. Very expensive, very difficult, 00:20:32.619 --> 00:20:35.259 and very limited. What I'm hearing is virtually 00:20:35.259 --> 00:20:38.079 no matter which way you go, whether it's through 00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:41.859 instrumenting dummies that represent a significant 00:20:41.859 --> 00:20:45.299 part of the population or simulation, it's a 00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:50.619 long, arduous task. Yeah, not simple. It just 00:20:50.619 --> 00:20:52.619 makes me wonder if there's more that can be done 00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:55.519 in the meantime to address, like, we know that 00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:57.980 one of the, you know, the number one ways that 00:20:57.980 --> 00:21:02.059 women are injured in crashes, you know, the biggest 00:21:02.059 --> 00:21:04.579 gap between women and men injuries in crashes, 00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:07.519 I think, is in the lower limb area. And, you 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:10.700 know, I wish we could look at that problem and 00:21:10.700 --> 00:21:14.000 address it specifically versus. bringing this 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:17.079 whole other problem of having the right dummies 00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:19.299 and simulation into play. You know, can we look 00:21:19.299 --> 00:21:21.380 at that problem individually, figure out why 00:21:21.380 --> 00:21:23.980 those lower limb injuries are happening so much 00:21:23.980 --> 00:21:26.240 more frequently for women, and then do something 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:31.640 about that versus trying to fix the entire system 00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:35.799 of crash testing, dummy, and, you know, do we 00:21:35.799 --> 00:21:38.319 have to resolve all that to get some action that's 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:40.480 going to protect women? So the answer is no, 00:21:40.599 --> 00:21:43.079 because you cannot resolve all that. But the 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:46.259 other answer is there's no single answer. Any 00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:48.220 answer you put in there has got to look at a 00:21:48.220 --> 00:21:51.779 distribution of proportions for the women, for 00:21:51.779 --> 00:21:56.900 the men, or whoever is in it. And an astute analyst 00:21:56.900 --> 00:21:59.319 would say, okay, what are the critical parts 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:01.740 of this? What are the critical parameters? So 00:22:01.740 --> 00:22:04.720 the first stage would be to set up simulations 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:08.660 that identify the critical parameters. Okay. 00:22:09.130 --> 00:22:11.109 And then the second stage would be to say, okay, 00:22:11.150 --> 00:22:12.990 given that we now know what the critical parameters 00:22:12.990 --> 00:22:16.210 are, let's find out where the corners of the 00:22:16.210 --> 00:22:20.990 envelope are and test it at those points. And 00:22:20.990 --> 00:22:22.630 when you do that, you assume everything in the 00:22:22.630 --> 00:22:25.150 middle is going to be less critical than the 00:22:25.150 --> 00:22:27.049 critical points on the extremes that you're looking 00:22:27.049 --> 00:22:29.170 at. It's kind of like when people talk about 00:22:29.170 --> 00:22:34.430 edge cases in AV simulations. They can simulate 00:22:34.430 --> 00:22:37.690 stuff that happens in between. Anything that's 00:22:37.690 --> 00:22:39.109 too hard, they throw up their hands and say, 00:22:39.150 --> 00:22:42.089 well, that's an edge case. Of course, the problem 00:22:42.089 --> 00:22:45.589 is edge cases happen hundreds or thousands of 00:22:45.589 --> 00:22:47.750 times every day in the United States. So you 00:22:47.750 --> 00:22:50.390 can't just catalog the edge cases and say, well, 00:22:50.430 --> 00:22:54.069 we're going to run those because life's too short 00:22:54.069 --> 00:22:57.509 and computing power is too unavailable. So it's 00:22:57.509 --> 00:23:03.410 a huge problem. No easy answer, but clearly the 00:23:03.410 --> 00:23:07.099 answer is not to reduce the budget. For the engineers 00:23:07.099 --> 00:23:09.279 who are trying to study this. Right. I mean, 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:11.940 just as an example, I think NCAP's budget over 00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:15.660 the last decade has gone from like $15 million 00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:20.039 to around $6 million. I mean, $6 million does 00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:24.160 not buy you a lot of modern cars for testing, 00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:25.880 and it certainly doesn't allow you to buy those 00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:30.059 cars and have the facilities and everything you 00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:32.019 need to test them. That's what NCAP's budget 00:23:32.019 --> 00:23:36.430 is. It's a disgrace. I mean, it should be significantly 00:23:36.430 --> 00:23:39.750 more multiples of what it is now. Well, engineers 00:23:39.750 --> 00:23:42.130 are not cheap either. The fully burdened rate 00:23:42.130 --> 00:23:44.289 for engineers is probably a quarter million dollars 00:23:44.289 --> 00:23:49.029 a year for engineer. So, you know, if your budget's 00:23:49.029 --> 00:23:52.849 $10 million, maybe you can buy, you know, maybe 00:23:52.849 --> 00:23:54.769 you can pay for 10 engineers and some equipment 00:23:54.769 --> 00:23:57.869 for them to work on. But it's not a lot of money. 00:24:01.060 --> 00:24:03.859 I think the takeaway is increase funding for 00:24:03.859 --> 00:24:06.599 NCAP. Increase NHTSA's budget. That's right, 00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:08.859 NHTSA. You've heard it here. We've said it a 00:24:08.859 --> 00:24:11.339 few times. Increase. Get your budget increased. 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:13.099 Hey, Jonathan Morrison, why don't you take some 00:24:13.099 --> 00:24:15.380 of those Apple stock options you got and just 00:24:15.380 --> 00:24:18.740 fund it? Fund it yourself. Come on. What else 00:24:18.740 --> 00:24:21.339 are you going to do with that money? Buy hats? 00:24:21.660 --> 00:24:25.819 I don't know. Okay, this is a good one, but I 00:24:25.819 --> 00:24:27.660 kind of like I'm leaning towards Michael. Hey, 00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:29.319 I wonder if they could focus on the lower leg 00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:32.000 extremities or even just redesigning lap belts 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:36.259 shoulder belts i don't know uh it's it's interesting 00:24:36.259 --> 00:24:38.839 and i hope someone comes up with some incremental 00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:42.359 solutions before the magic solution that we all 00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:44.759 know elon's already figured out he's got it figured 00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:48.019 out how to make everything perfect uh and with 00:24:48.019 --> 00:24:49.940 that who's uh who wants to do their gas likes 00:24:49.940 --> 00:24:54.660 i already did mine I'll enjoy it because I have 00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:56.599 I have some quick ones. I probably got three 00:24:56.599 --> 00:24:58.720 this week. I didn't really come down on. I got 00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:02.160 a few, but I let just just the one. Yeah. I mean, 00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:06.160 you know, one one quick one. The you know, we 00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:09.059 saw another school, a school bus crash that killed 00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:11.900 two girls and injured a dozen or more children 00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:18.839 over the weekend. And in Tennessee, you look 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:21.259 at the crash and, you know, it was a head on 00:25:21.259 --> 00:25:25.730 collision with. a dump truck i believe um and 00:25:25.730 --> 00:25:30.029 it's absolutely 100 a situation where if those 00:25:30.029 --> 00:25:33.190 children had seat belts on their buses many of 00:25:33.190 --> 00:25:35.089 them would have been spared injury it's hard 00:25:35.089 --> 00:25:37.470 to tell we don't have you know all the crash 00:25:37.470 --> 00:25:40.250 information yet whether you know lives could 00:25:40.250 --> 00:25:43.069 have been saved it's you know a dump truck is 00:25:43.789 --> 00:25:46.349 school bus hitting each other is a whole lot 00:25:46.349 --> 00:25:49.190 of energy combined in one area. So, you know, 00:25:49.210 --> 00:25:51.190 I think we can safely say that a lot of those 00:25:51.190 --> 00:25:53.869 students would could have remained uninjured. 00:25:54.910 --> 00:25:57.230 But we're not sure about the fatalities. We just 00:25:57.230 --> 00:25:59.509 don't have enough information yet. But I will 00:25:59.509 --> 00:26:02.750 continue to award the gaslight to all of the 00:26:02.750 --> 00:26:06.470 school systems and school bus manufacturers who 00:26:06.470 --> 00:26:09.789 have over the years colluded on this solution 00:26:09.789 --> 00:26:13.779 for school buses that doesn't include Seatbelts, 00:26:13.779 --> 00:26:16.279 that is one gaslight. My other gaslight I'm skipping 00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:21.920 over to IHS. I like IHS. However, they awarded 00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.319 the Cybertruck their top safety pick. I wasn't 00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:27.000 even going to mention that. You know, this is 00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:29.779 a car that has some pretty significant weight 00:26:29.779 --> 00:26:33.640 and design impacts on other road users. It's 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:35.819 got some serious issues with emergency grass 00:26:35.819 --> 00:26:38.420 escaping the vehicle in a fire and other things. 00:26:39.289 --> 00:26:41.470 We obviously have concerns about the partial 00:26:41.470 --> 00:26:43.869 automation safeguards with autopilot and full 00:26:43.869 --> 00:26:46.970 self -driving. And on top of all that, it's banned 00:26:46.970 --> 00:26:50.990 in the European Union. So I'm giving a quick 00:26:50.990 --> 00:26:54.190 gaslight to IHS for including the Cybertruck 00:26:54.190 --> 00:26:58.450 in their top safety picks of the year. And, you 00:26:58.450 --> 00:27:00.569 know, I think I'll leave it at that. You know, 00:27:00.589 --> 00:27:04.289 I had another one. Oh, my other one was the Ophelia, 00:27:04.490 --> 00:27:08.440 Sony's entry into the auto. Do you want that 00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:13.019 one? No, no, no. Okay. The Afila is the latest 00:27:13.019 --> 00:27:16.319 CES promotion nonsense that is, you know, two 00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:19.299 years later being canceled after Sony and Honda 00:27:19.299 --> 00:27:21.619 came out promising all these wonderful things 00:27:21.619 --> 00:27:25.599 in this car. It's over. And they just showed 00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:28.299 it in January. I feel another bullshit CES promotion 00:27:28.299 --> 00:27:31.519 coming. This won't be the last one. Wow, that's 00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:33.720 a good one. Okay, so related to the Cybertruck. 00:27:34.269 --> 00:27:36.650 We've talked about how escaping from the back 00:27:36.650 --> 00:27:38.789 seats and even the front seats because of their 00:27:38.789 --> 00:27:41.029 electronic door locks is next to impossible. 00:27:41.809 --> 00:27:44.470 You know, because they just poor engineering 00:27:44.470 --> 00:27:48.109 choices on Tesla's part. Very bad decision. Somebody, 00:27:48.150 --> 00:27:50.369 I think it might be in a related article, they 00:27:50.369 --> 00:27:52.750 suggested if you put your kid or anyone in a 00:27:52.750 --> 00:27:55.130 Cybertruck, probably any Tesla for that matter, 00:27:55.190 --> 00:27:56.970 make sure there's a hammer in there. Because 00:27:56.970 --> 00:27:58.910 in case they get a crash, they need that to try 00:27:58.910 --> 00:28:02.009 and smash the windows to get out. You know, that 00:28:02.009 --> 00:28:04.029 wasn't just anyone saying that. That was Gilbert 00:28:04.029 --> 00:28:06.250 Arenas, former point guard for the Washington 00:28:06.250 --> 00:28:10.109 Wizards. His son was almost killed and was trapped 00:28:10.109 --> 00:28:13.630 and I believe briefly unconscious, was rescued 00:28:13.630 --> 00:28:18.069 from the vehicle, was put into a coma. So, you 00:28:18.069 --> 00:28:20.369 know, Gilbert says if you're a parent and your 00:28:20.369 --> 00:28:22.670 teen has this car, you may want to put a hammer 00:28:22.670 --> 00:28:25.369 in that joint, right? Yeah. Something that would 00:28:25.369 --> 00:28:28.369 break the window, you know. I would say if you 00:28:28.369 --> 00:28:30.950 are a parent and your teen has this car, you 00:28:30.950 --> 00:28:33.509 have a clear case of MMTB. What's that, Anthony? 00:28:34.390 --> 00:28:37.309 More money than brains. There we go. There we 00:28:37.309 --> 00:28:40.710 go. IIHS. You were great as a point guard as, 00:28:40.829 --> 00:28:44.569 you know, I question your decisions involving 00:28:44.569 --> 00:28:47.470 your teenager's car. Well, it's a popular. Hey, 00:28:47.549 --> 00:28:49.569 before I do my gaslight, I got a social question 00:28:49.569 --> 00:28:52.730 for you guys. Anthony, you have friends, right? 00:28:52.829 --> 00:28:56.369 Yes. Why? Who told you I didn't? Nobody, but 00:28:56.369 --> 00:29:00.230 I'm just verifying that you are ahead of me because 00:29:00.230 --> 00:29:02.630 you actually have friends. So here's what happened. 00:29:03.069 --> 00:29:06.890 We met some new people, very nice people, and 00:29:06.890 --> 00:29:12.990 came over to my house to deliver a sign in his 00:29:12.990 --> 00:29:17.589 Tesla. Oh, no. Oh, no. So I said, well, that's 00:29:17.589 --> 00:29:19.970 nice. And he was talking about it. He bought 00:29:19.970 --> 00:29:23.269 it several years ago. So I said, you know, these 00:29:23.269 --> 00:29:26.569 have some problems with escaping from the rear 00:29:26.569 --> 00:29:29.109 and you really need to look for the emergency 00:29:29.109 --> 00:29:33.630 release. And of course he had not, but he appreciated 00:29:33.630 --> 00:29:36.170 that. And then I said, you know, people have 00:29:36.170 --> 00:29:40.170 been trapped in these. And he showed me the escape 00:29:40.170 --> 00:29:45.769 hammer that he had in the well on the passenger 00:29:45.769 --> 00:29:49.089 side door with a little hardened steel point 00:29:49.089 --> 00:29:52.640 on it to break the window, right? So I said, 00:29:52.779 --> 00:29:55.859 you know, that's a great idea. But the problem 00:29:55.859 --> 00:30:00.000 is, see, this is laminated glass. And so this 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:03.819 little device you've got here isn't going to 00:30:03.819 --> 00:30:07.019 do the job. And you really need to carry a bigger 00:30:07.019 --> 00:30:09.359 hammer if you're going to smash your way through 00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:14.059 the glass. So he thanked me and drove to the 00:30:14.059 --> 00:30:19.000 No Kings Rally. And I thought that was very good. 00:30:19.059 --> 00:30:21.809 So here's my question. How do you know anything 00:30:21.809 --> 00:30:25.210 about this cars and have a conversation with 00:30:25.210 --> 00:30:28.589 people who don't think you're a dork? Well, it's 00:30:28.589 --> 00:30:31.549 impossible. Yeah. Just you're going to be a dork. 00:30:31.549 --> 00:30:35.930 Just accept it. So you have that tattooed on 00:30:35.930 --> 00:30:37.750 my forehead or something. All right. No, hold 00:30:37.750 --> 00:30:39.730 on. Was this the first time you'd met this person? 00:30:40.930 --> 00:30:45.609 No, no. This is actually the third personal. 00:30:46.380 --> 00:30:48.359 I mean, I'm in contact with this person. He's 00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:50.259 an organized guy. I'm sure he's a lovely person. 00:30:50.359 --> 00:30:53.079 I mean, but I mean, I don't know if the third 00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:55.660 date, that might be a little too early to talk 00:30:55.660 --> 00:30:59.720 about how his hammer is inadequate. Well, it's 00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:01.759 been kind of a persistent problem for me for 00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:05.619 the last, oh, I don't know, 73 years or so. So 00:31:05.619 --> 00:31:07.740 I was hoping you'd give me some advice on that. 00:31:08.140 --> 00:31:09.480 I think it's one of the first things everyone 00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:11.720 should look at when they buy a new vehicle is 00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:14.759 what type of glass they have in their side windows. 00:31:15.140 --> 00:31:17.460 If it's tempered, one of those tools could work. 00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:20.539 If it's laminated, you're going to need a lot 00:31:20.539 --> 00:31:23.539 more than the little key chain tools than a lot 00:31:23.539 --> 00:31:26.460 of the escape tools that are sold. And I think 00:31:26.460 --> 00:31:28.839 the people who are selling the escape tools need 00:31:28.839 --> 00:31:31.660 to be clear about that. And they're not in their 00:31:31.660 --> 00:31:33.480 advertising. They sell these things as kind of 00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:36.000 a one size fits all solution to getting out of 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:40.109 a vehicle. However, a lot of people who were 00:31:40.109 --> 00:31:42.369 carrying that tool in their car are going to 00:31:42.369 --> 00:31:45.430 discover to their chagrin that they don't have 00:31:45.430 --> 00:31:48.430 tempered glass. They have laminated glass on 00:31:48.430 --> 00:31:49.750 their windows and they're not going to be able 00:31:49.750 --> 00:31:51.950 to use that to escape. Did you offer to try and 00:31:51.950 --> 00:31:54.230 use his little tool to break the windows and 00:31:54.230 --> 00:31:56.210 just show him? That would have been fun. I'm 00:31:56.210 --> 00:31:59.089 not that much of a dork. No. Come on. Get a couple 00:31:59.089 --> 00:32:00.910 of drinks in the guy. Come on. Let's go try to 00:32:00.910 --> 00:32:02.630 bust your windows, buddy. Come on. Let's do it. 00:32:02.650 --> 00:32:06.349 Woo. Well, my big drink these days is pomegranate 00:32:06.349 --> 00:32:08.970 juice, so I'm not sure that's going to... Well, 00:32:09.130 --> 00:32:11.289 that reinforces dorkiness, doesn't it? Never 00:32:11.289 --> 00:32:13.630 mind. I'm going to move on to my gaslight here. 00:32:14.029 --> 00:32:16.609 Okay, so my gaslight is, forgive the pronunciation, 00:32:16.970 --> 00:32:22.190 by Omar Zubi, Z -O -U -B -I, who's the head of 00:32:22.190 --> 00:32:25.250 a company called Taskus. And this is on a podcast 00:32:25.250 --> 00:32:28.329 by the Driverless Digest, and that link will 00:32:28.329 --> 00:32:32.230 be on our website. What his company, Taskus, 00:32:32.250 --> 00:32:35.940 does... is they provide human -in -the -loop 00:32:35.940 --> 00:32:41.559 services for robo -taxis. And so it's kind of 00:32:41.559 --> 00:32:46.039 sort of the interesting aspects to this. They 00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:48.940 do contractor staffing for the remote Michigan 00:32:48.940 --> 00:32:54.400 call center that Waymo uses for its, you know, 00:32:54.420 --> 00:32:56.980 human -in -the -loop responses, right? So it 00:32:56.980 --> 00:32:59.609 reinforces the idea that... These autonomous 00:32:59.609 --> 00:33:02.569 vehicles really are not fully autonomous. They're 00:33:02.569 --> 00:33:04.509 partially autonomous. They all have a human in 00:33:04.509 --> 00:33:07.150 the loop. And it's also interesting that Waymo 00:33:07.150 --> 00:33:11.069 doesn't staff that itself, because by using this 00:33:11.069 --> 00:33:13.589 subcontractor, it gives itself one more layer 00:33:13.589 --> 00:33:17.430 of legal insulation from liability associated 00:33:17.430 --> 00:33:21.630 with any error that causes death or injury. Doesn't 00:33:21.630 --> 00:33:26.000 it, Michael? I mean, you know, maybe it's a layer. 00:33:26.099 --> 00:33:28.440 It's all going to depend on what happens and 00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:30.819 what the case looks like. But I mean, it's definitely 00:33:30.819 --> 00:33:33.559 one more area to point the finger if something 00:33:33.559 --> 00:33:36.700 goes wrong, right? Yeah. So anyway, quoting from 00:33:36.700 --> 00:33:38.759 him, he says, this technology doesn't sleep. 00:33:39.079 --> 00:33:41.880 It doesn't get distracted. It doesn't get drunk. 00:33:41.960 --> 00:33:44.039 And it sees more than a human being can see. 00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:47.559 I think safety is the one area that every one 00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:51.359 of them, the robo -taxi companies, is very public 00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:55.480 about sharing. What nonsense. OK, so I'll stop 00:33:55.480 --> 00:33:57.920 quoting here. He didn't say no nonsense. But, 00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:03.519 you know, that is an old, old saying that they're 00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:06.000 using to distract people from the real safety 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:09.599 issues. And in fact, the robo taxi companies, 00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:14.980 and it's only one as far as I know, are very 00:34:14.980 --> 00:34:18.420 active about diverting people from the whole 00:34:18.420 --> 00:34:22.800 idea that they are. In fact, putting safety as 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:26.019 the very highest priority. Clearly, safety is 00:34:26.019 --> 00:34:28.820 a priority, but it's way down the list. And continued 00:34:28.820 --> 00:34:32.000 operations is the highest priority. If you look 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:35.280 at Waymo's experience in Texas with school buses, 00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:38.380 for example, clearly the safest approach would 00:34:38.380 --> 00:34:40.440 be to not operate the damn Waymos when the school 00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:43.059 buses are loading and unloading passengers. Yet 00:34:43.059 --> 00:34:45.860 we know that for several months, Waymo has been 00:34:45.860 --> 00:34:50.690 operating. And diverting attention from this, 00:34:50.789 --> 00:34:54.429 they've actually tested it, their software on 00:34:54.429 --> 00:34:57.369 school buses on the road, school buses in a parking 00:34:57.369 --> 00:35:00.070 lot, school buses with the cooperation of the 00:35:00.070 --> 00:35:02.349 Texas Independent School District, Austin Independent 00:35:02.349 --> 00:35:06.630 School District, in a closed area, none of which 00:35:06.630 --> 00:35:09.309 has solved the problem, all of which has involved 00:35:09.309 --> 00:35:12.909 jeopardizing children's safety and taxpayers' 00:35:13.210 --> 00:35:17.750 support for the Waymo introduction in Texas. 00:35:21.610 --> 00:35:25.449 So, first of all, human -in -the -loop operation 00:35:25.449 --> 00:35:28.809 means it's not truly autonomous. And if they 00:35:28.809 --> 00:35:30.969 provide the remote human -in -the -loop guidance 00:35:30.969 --> 00:35:33.610 that directs vehicle operation, they are driving 00:35:33.610 --> 00:35:35.949 the cars no matter how much they want to obfuscate. 00:35:36.150 --> 00:35:38.210 They say that they're just providing guidance 00:35:38.210 --> 00:35:40.409 and, you know, they're really not driving the 00:35:40.409 --> 00:35:43.590 cars, even though the cars then do what their 00:35:43.590 --> 00:35:47.190 guidance suggests. So, I'm not sure how they're 00:35:47.190 --> 00:35:51.719 going to square that. And then they say, second, 00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:54.079 the technology doesn't blah, blah, blah, blah, 00:35:54.119 --> 00:35:57.280 blah. But note that the lack of information is 00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:00.400 not information. So by saying they don't do certain 00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:02.519 things, they're not providing information of 00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:04.920 what they do. They're just not providing information. 00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:08.320 But some of the things that this automated technology 00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:13.579 does do is they implement software errors. They 00:36:13.579 --> 00:36:15.599 exhibit a wide range of failure modes common 00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:18.650 to computers, networks, and sensors. They suffer 00:36:18.650 --> 00:36:21.690 potentially lethal latency from remote human 00:36:21.690 --> 00:36:24.429 -in -the -loop facilities. They experience electrical 00:36:24.429 --> 00:36:27.730 and electronic faults. They freeze and otherwise 00:36:27.730 --> 00:36:30.929 malfunction from communication failures, none 00:36:30.929 --> 00:36:35.030 of which humans suffer. So if you do a cost and 00:36:35.030 --> 00:36:38.170 benefit analysis, you really need to identify 00:36:38.170 --> 00:36:40.550 the costs as well as the potential benefits. 00:36:42.570 --> 00:36:46.110 Nobody's illustrated this better in my mind than... 00:36:46.980 --> 00:36:50.340 Mr. Zuby, again, for the pronunciation if it's 00:36:50.340 --> 00:36:55.320 wrong. So there is no independent study to date 00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:57.960 that has shown the intrinsic safety benefits 00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:00.599 of computer -driven cars. So to start with the 00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:04.199 presumption that safety is inherent in a computer 00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:07.300 operation is simply wrong. There's no evidence 00:37:07.300 --> 00:37:10.000 to support that. There is a lot of evidence to 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:13.900 the contrary, including the frequent reports 00:37:13.900 --> 00:37:18.059 from Texas and Atlanta, Georgia. of these vehicles 00:37:18.059 --> 00:37:20.260 interfering with loading and unloading children 00:37:20.260 --> 00:37:23.940 from school buses, as well as hitting children 00:37:23.940 --> 00:37:27.699 in California who are doing nothing worse than 00:37:27.699 --> 00:37:32.039 getting out of school. And the idea that safety 00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:34.400 is the one area that every one of them is very 00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:37.840 public about sharing is a cruel joke. Their safety 00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:40.159 data is at best biased heavily towards the illusion 00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:42.719 of safety, and at worst shows that experience 00:37:43.369 --> 00:37:45.929 is many times more hazardous than human operation. 00:37:46.989 --> 00:37:49.389 That experience is irrelevant to the software 00:37:49.389 --> 00:37:52.710 stack currently used for operations because it's 00:37:52.710 --> 00:37:54.869 all that experience is based upon rules -based 00:37:54.869 --> 00:37:56.789 software that's completely different than what 00:37:56.789 --> 00:38:04.070 they're using now with end -to -end AI. And I'll 00:38:04.070 --> 00:38:06.190 remind you that when you call a Waymo, you're 00:38:06.190 --> 00:38:09.449 giving up all your rights to sue Waymo as well 00:38:09.449 --> 00:38:12.110 as to sue the company that gives you the information. 00:38:13.179 --> 00:38:16.480 Protection by the Communications Act, Michael, 00:38:16.579 --> 00:38:19.559 that insulates the Internet companies from liability 00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:23.280 associated with the information it carries. The 00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:28.699 DMCA. DMCA. So a little bit longer than I would 00:38:28.699 --> 00:38:31.480 have liked, I guess. But that's my nominee is 00:38:31.480 --> 00:38:36.719 Mr. Omar Zubi with company Taskus. Pretty good. 00:38:36.820 --> 00:38:39.260 I mean, you were trying to trigger me there. 00:38:39.340 --> 00:38:41.280 You kept saying the phrase human in the loop 00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:44.199 over and over again. And I kept biting my tongue. 00:38:44.820 --> 00:38:47.119 But the human in the loop, the story of the hula 00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:50.099 hoop. I don't know. There's a thousand other 00:38:50.099 --> 00:38:52.400 ones. That was the most safe one. Michael's disappointed 00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:55.079 in me shaking his head. Well, the human in the 00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:57.380 loop is a standard engineering term for development 00:38:57.380 --> 00:39:01.300 of complex systems. Yes. You know, you start 00:39:01.300 --> 00:39:05.139 with the simulation. Then you do computer in 00:39:05.139 --> 00:39:07.099 the loop and see if it works. Then you do human 00:39:07.099 --> 00:39:12.340 in the loop. All right. Since Michael got to 00:39:12.340 --> 00:39:14.940 do multiple gaslights, I'm going to do one. Another 00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:21.219 one. Time Magazine. Laura Avena has an article 00:39:21.219 --> 00:39:23.880 titled or an opinion piece, I assume. First of 00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:26.019 all, no idea. Time Magazine was still a thing. 00:39:26.900 --> 00:39:29.480 But this is titled What Cities Need to Consider 00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:33.360 Before Allowing Self -Driving Cars. And I'm going 00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:35.840 to quote from it. The debate over these autonomous 00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:39.050 vehicles often collapses into two camps. One 00:39:39.050 --> 00:39:42.409 side treats any regulation whatsoever as an obstacle 00:39:42.409 --> 00:39:45.190 to progress. The other argues we should pause 00:39:45.190 --> 00:39:47.590 on innovation until every future risk is resolved. 00:39:48.150 --> 00:39:51.670 This is cartoonish. This is, I mean, yes, we 00:39:51.670 --> 00:39:53.670 know the Alliance for Automotive Innovation, 00:39:53.769 --> 00:39:56.750 they're like, no regulations. I don't know if 00:39:56.750 --> 00:40:00.250 it's that cartoonish. No, I mean, as safety advocates. 00:40:00.829 --> 00:40:03.030 Really? We're saying don't do any progress? That's 00:40:03.030 --> 00:40:04.829 the problem I had with it. Pause all innovation 00:40:04.829 --> 00:40:07.150 until we figure everything out. No, I don't think 00:40:07.150 --> 00:40:09.590 any of us have made that argument. I think we 00:40:09.590 --> 00:40:11.650 have a checklist for that, don't we? We do have 00:40:11.650 --> 00:40:14.469 a checklist instead. Further on, she's talking 00:40:14.469 --> 00:40:17.869 about how she was the FDNY commissioner in 2022 00:40:17.869 --> 00:40:20.329 and talking about how we know how to get things 00:40:20.329 --> 00:40:24.429 safely out there, but then she magically forgets 00:40:24.429 --> 00:40:28.389 what's an issue. She's talking about these e 00:40:28.389 --> 00:40:30.449 -bikes and lithium -ion batteries, how we're 00:40:30.829 --> 00:40:34.289 They were introduced in New York City and they 00:40:34.289 --> 00:40:36.889 started causing all these fires. And so I'm going 00:40:36.889 --> 00:40:39.289 to quote from continue. While these batteries 00:40:39.289 --> 00:40:41.690 had been deemed safe in a lab setting, everything 00:40:41.690 --> 00:40:43.969 about city living made them more dangerous, more 00:40:43.969 --> 00:40:45.929 prone to fire from potholes, all covered streets, 00:40:45.989 --> 00:40:48.230 the damage of protective casing, small apartments 00:40:48.230 --> 00:40:50.530 where bikes are just blocking the exit, the growing 00:40:50.530 --> 00:40:53.110 demand for fast delivery, blah, blah, blah. No, 00:40:53.269 --> 00:40:55.909 these were not deemed safe in a lab. The ones 00:40:55.909 --> 00:40:58.969 that were exploding into flames were were. bad 00:40:58.969 --> 00:41:01.909 imitations that were never tested in a lab these 00:41:01.909 --> 00:41:04.170 were ones that they identified strictly where 00:41:04.170 --> 00:41:07.150 they came from that they had no safety behind 00:41:07.150 --> 00:41:11.210 them at all these were bogus these were uh what's 00:41:11.210 --> 00:41:14.750 uh knockoffs what's the what's the term counterfeit 00:41:14.750 --> 00:41:16.929 thank you these were counterfeit i don't know 00:41:16.929 --> 00:41:20.869 so there's a lot of confusing and and and frankly 00:41:20.869 --> 00:41:24.170 dangerous and lazy things here uh continuing 00:41:24.170 --> 00:41:26.789 it didn't have to be this way online real tellers 00:41:27.210 --> 00:41:29.530 Could have been seen as partners in the rollout 00:41:29.530 --> 00:41:31.849 of this new technology. And companies could have 00:41:31.849 --> 00:41:33.969 worked in the city to build best practices and 00:41:33.969 --> 00:41:35.690 outdoor infrastructure that will protect residents 00:41:35.690 --> 00:41:37.409 from these fires these batteries are causing. 00:41:38.150 --> 00:41:40.789 Or you could have not let counterfeit batteries 00:41:40.789 --> 00:41:45.849 in to begin with. That's hard. But I mean, come 00:41:45.849 --> 00:41:47.590 on. I mean, we're seeing it right now. We're 00:41:47.590 --> 00:41:51.079 seeing millions of. Fake auto parts. And we're, 00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:54.840 you know, NHTSA and other, you know, the Border 00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:57.900 Patrol hasn't been able to stop all the counterfeit 00:41:57.900 --> 00:42:00.380 airbags coming in that are causing some pretty 00:42:00.380 --> 00:42:02.280 serious problems. I understand. But this is making 00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:04.219 the assumption that all of this stuff was designed 00:42:04.219 --> 00:42:06.519 safely. It just wasn't meant for an urban environment. 00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:10.619 That is not true. This was explosive damage garbage 00:42:10.619 --> 00:42:13.739 that was not designed to be used by humans ever. 00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:19.429 Please. I'm going to nitpick a little bit. Nitpick 00:42:19.429 --> 00:42:22.710 away. You will lose gasoline. You said that they're 00:42:22.710 --> 00:42:26.389 not designed safely. These counterfeit batteries. 00:42:26.389 --> 00:42:28.050 That can be completely wrong because the design 00:42:28.050 --> 00:42:30.030 could have been completely safe, but the implementation, 00:42:30.510 --> 00:42:33.730 the quality control and validation may have been 00:42:33.730 --> 00:42:36.469 completely faulty. So there's a difference between 00:42:36.469 --> 00:42:39.869 design and there's a difference between validation. 00:42:40.070 --> 00:42:45.250 So again, I'm a dork, but dorkiness is important 00:42:45.250 --> 00:42:48.190 in certain contexts, and that's one. So has the 00:42:48.190 --> 00:42:50.050 guy with the Tesla, has he come over for a fourth 00:42:50.050 --> 00:42:55.389 visit? Not yet. We'll see. And I wouldn't nitpick 00:42:55.389 --> 00:42:57.309 this article too much to death because ultimately 00:42:57.309 --> 00:43:01.670 what the point here is, is that the cities or 00:43:01.670 --> 00:43:04.849 the local authorities and the technology companies 00:43:04.849 --> 00:43:08.469 need to work more closely together and kind of 00:43:08.469 --> 00:43:11.690 definitely here there's a push to say, hey, technology 00:43:11.690 --> 00:43:13.570 companies, you need to have a little more respect. 00:43:14.409 --> 00:43:17.050 for what the localities are requesting, you know, 00:43:17.070 --> 00:43:19.150 where we've seen this problem, you know, we just 00:43:19.150 --> 00:43:21.070 mentioned it in Austin with the school buses 00:43:21.070 --> 00:43:24.429 in Waymo. There's a way where these things could 00:43:24.429 --> 00:43:27.369 make, could, you know, a way where the vehicles 00:43:27.369 --> 00:43:30.210 could avoid the problem that's being caused by 00:43:30.210 --> 00:43:32.929 avoiding, you know, operation around school buses 00:43:32.929 --> 00:43:35.550 during drop -off pickup hours, that kind of thing. 00:43:35.730 --> 00:43:38.050 But Waymo is basically saying, no, we're going 00:43:38.050 --> 00:43:42.750 to do our own thing. And so, you know, I think 00:43:42.750 --> 00:43:45.150 that what this article really is, is a pitch 00:43:45.150 --> 00:43:50.269 for cities to have a little more authority in 00:43:50.269 --> 00:43:52.329 determining, you know, some of the and being 00:43:52.329 --> 00:43:54.170 able to work out some of the safety issues caused 00:43:54.170 --> 00:43:56.250 by advanced technology. And that's something 00:43:56.250 --> 00:43:59.230 we're fully behind. Right. Yes, I agree. My objection 00:43:59.230 --> 00:44:02.650 to this is the cartoonish portrayal of it's either 00:44:02.650 --> 00:44:05.349 black or white. And whereas, as Fred's pointed 00:44:05.349 --> 00:44:07.329 out, we've come out, hey, here's checklists to 00:44:07.329 --> 00:44:09.949 help regulators. We're not asking any regular, 00:44:10.050 --> 00:44:13.010 any innovation to stop. We want more AEB out 00:44:13.010 --> 00:44:15.570 there. We're not saying don't do it until we 00:44:15.570 --> 00:44:18.170 figure everything out. And then it just, it's, 00:44:18.170 --> 00:44:20.449 it's a little shocking to have a former FDNY 00:44:20.449 --> 00:44:22.789 commissioner being like, all of a sudden these 00:44:22.789 --> 00:44:25.730 batteries are exploding. All of a sudden garbage 00:44:25.730 --> 00:44:28.909 was exploding. Like it wasn't, these were not 00:44:28.909 --> 00:44:32.030 ones from reputable companies. So anyway, that's 00:44:32.030 --> 00:44:35.250 my, it's not a gas. It's my giant nitpick of 00:44:35.250 --> 00:44:37.690 the week. You're an anti -darkite, aren't you? 00:44:38.090 --> 00:44:40.949 A little bit. A little bit. Okay, so this late 00:44:40.949 --> 00:44:42.849 gaslight winner is Fred, because he kept saying 00:44:42.849 --> 00:44:44.929 human in a loop, and he was trying to trigger 00:44:44.929 --> 00:44:47.570 me. Wow, that's never happened. It worked. This 00:44:47.570 --> 00:44:49.510 is your third time you've won, and each time 00:44:49.510 --> 00:44:52.510 you win, you say it's never happened. Well, who's 00:44:52.510 --> 00:44:56.210 keeping track? Me. Okay. Sticking to the greater 00:44:56.210 --> 00:44:58.269 New York City area, the New York Times has another 00:44:58.269 --> 00:45:02.050 opinion piece, which I approve of. This one's 00:45:02.050 --> 00:45:04.409 titled, Trump said this policy would make Manhattan 00:45:04.409 --> 00:45:09.030 a ghost town. He was wrong. Quoting from it, 00:45:09.110 --> 00:45:11.849 it's talking about how all these lawmakers are 00:45:11.849 --> 00:45:14.570 objecting to congestion pricing in Manhattan. 00:45:14.710 --> 00:45:16.030 And for those who don't know, if you enter the 00:45:16.030 --> 00:45:18.150 congestion pricing below, which is in Manhattan 00:45:18.150 --> 00:45:22.710 below 60th Street, you pay $9 or something like 00:45:22.710 --> 00:45:25.110 that. I don't know, between the hours of X and 00:45:25.110 --> 00:45:29.710 Y. I don't know. So quoting. It's going up, right? 00:45:29.730 --> 00:45:33.150 It's $9 now. It's going up to $12 and then $15 00:45:33.150 --> 00:45:37.369 in 2031. Government. So quoting, it's nothing 00:45:37.369 --> 00:45:39.809 more than a scam, a cash grab, said Representative 00:45:39.809 --> 00:45:42.150 Mike Lawler, Republican congressman from New 00:45:42.150 --> 00:45:44.849 York City's northern suburbs. A disaster, said 00:45:44.849 --> 00:45:46.750 New Jersey's governor at the time, Philip Murphy, 00:45:46.849 --> 00:45:49.190 a Democrat. Businesses will be will fully warrant 00:45:49.190 --> 00:45:52.849 Donald Trump and continuing over its first 14 00:45:52.849 --> 00:45:55.090 months. The congestion pricing system has exceeded 00:45:55.090 --> 00:45:57.750 even the high hopes of many supporters. It's 00:45:57.750 --> 00:46:00.030 reduced traffic, improved quality of life and 00:46:00.030 --> 00:46:03.599 even provided a boost for business. Talk of killing 00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:05.599 it has faded. This month, a federal judge ruled 00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:07.639 the Trump administration's attempt to end the 00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:11.239 program was illegal. So three cheers for congestion 00:46:11.239 --> 00:46:15.000 pricing. Yeah, I'm having, you know, we've seen 00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:17.360 multiple articles come out now that are really 00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:19.920 showing a lot of successes here, and I'm having 00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:23.519 a hard time figuring out where the negatives 00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:26.780 are here. It's the is the negative, literally 00:46:26.780 --> 00:46:29.360 the people who are having to pay to come into 00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:31.699 the city these hours whining about nine dollars. 00:46:31.900 --> 00:46:34.539 Or is is there another negative here that I'm 00:46:34.539 --> 00:46:37.539 missing? So there's this there's always this 00:46:37.539 --> 00:46:40.820 fantasy theory that, oh, there's the secret cabal. 00:46:40.820 --> 00:46:42.539 They get together and they're going to try and 00:46:42.539 --> 00:46:44.579 rule the world. Oh, the secret cabal is just 00:46:44.579 --> 00:46:46.639 a moment. People don't want to pay taxes. And 00:46:46.639 --> 00:46:49.539 that's this is part of it. This is another tax 00:46:49.539 --> 00:46:51.619 and they don't want to pay taxes. Don't take 00:46:51.619 --> 00:46:54.170 money out of my pocket. I'm. I'm busy taking 00:46:54.170 --> 00:46:59.750 taxpayer money to dump stuff in the ocean. Yeah, 00:46:59.829 --> 00:47:01.769 it's I think that's really just what it comes 00:47:01.769 --> 00:47:04.309 down to. And even the representative from the 00:47:04.309 --> 00:47:06.349 northern New York City suburbs, as we pointed 00:47:06.349 --> 00:47:08.550 out a couple of weeks ago, traffic around their 00:47:08.550 --> 00:47:11.130 suburbs have improved greatly because congestion 00:47:11.130 --> 00:47:13.090 has dropped off because you have less people 00:47:13.090 --> 00:47:15.769 trying to people coming through. I mean, same 00:47:15.769 --> 00:47:17.510 amount of people coming through, but not all 00:47:17.510 --> 00:47:19.789 of them in an individual car now. Now they're 00:47:19.789 --> 00:47:22.909 taking mass transit and, you know. People are 00:47:22.909 --> 00:47:25.909 meeting new friends. Marriages are starting. 00:47:25.989 --> 00:47:30.610 Marriages are ending. It's a rom -com to be made. 00:47:31.050 --> 00:47:33.829 What about freedom and these damn liberals trying 00:47:33.829 --> 00:47:36.829 to run every aspect of your life? Well, I'd like 00:47:36.829 --> 00:47:41.230 to meet them one day. Which? All of those liberals? 00:47:41.349 --> 00:47:43.110 Yeah, I want to meet these liberals running my 00:47:43.110 --> 00:47:48.650 life. Less decisions for me. Good point. Thank 00:47:48.650 --> 00:47:51.289 you. With a good point, would you like to tell 00:47:51.289 --> 00:47:56.869 us? No, I'm going to let that one go. Okay. No 00:47:56.869 --> 00:47:59.909 Tao this week. Tao is a noun. Oh, the Tao. I'm 00:47:59.909 --> 00:48:02.889 sorry. I misunderstood. All right. I'm going 00:48:02.889 --> 00:48:05.730 to spend just a few minutes talking about 48 00:48:05.730 --> 00:48:08.889 -volt versus 12 -volt electrical systems in cars. 00:48:09.130 --> 00:48:10.429 Because I do have questions. Another fascinating 00:48:10.429 --> 00:48:16.429 subject. So for those who've been paying attention, 00:48:16.650 --> 00:48:20.030 you've seen that some cars are moving from a 00:48:20.030 --> 00:48:23.119 12 -volt electrical system to a 48 -volt. This 00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:26.900 is the first major shift in about, oh, I don't 00:48:26.900 --> 00:48:30.340 know, 50 years when cars moved from a 6 -volt 00:48:30.340 --> 00:48:34.039 system to a 12 -volt system. So why is this happening 00:48:34.039 --> 00:48:38.219 and why should anybody care? Well, there's a 00:48:38.219 --> 00:48:39.940 couple of standards. We'll put them on the website 00:48:39.940 --> 00:48:43.019 for why this is happening. But I'm going to compare 00:48:43.019 --> 00:48:46.280 12 -volt and 48 -volt. So 12 -volt system has 00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:50.239 fewer cells in its battery. Of course, there 00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:52.739 are more cells in a 48 -volt battery, four times 00:48:52.739 --> 00:48:56.219 as many. There's a minimal shock hazard from 00:48:56.219 --> 00:48:59.480 either one. So all of these spy movies you've 00:48:59.480 --> 00:49:03.179 seen where they tie somebody to a battery and 00:49:03.179 --> 00:49:05.619 shock them to give up the secrets, those are 00:49:05.619 --> 00:49:08.059 all nonsense. It doesn't work. Wait, I can't 00:49:08.059 --> 00:49:10.500 take jumper cables to a 12 -volt battery and 00:49:10.500 --> 00:49:12.559 then put the terminals on you and get the truth? 00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:15.340 Nothing's going to get the truth from me. Well, 00:49:15.460 --> 00:49:17.800 okay. Including not that, yeah. But that's really? 00:49:18.489 --> 00:49:20.530 Because like I've taken the ends and you always 00:49:20.530 --> 00:49:25.250 bang them together and get sparks. Yeah. So here's 00:49:25.250 --> 00:49:30.250 the thing. AC is constantly changing the voltage 00:49:30.250 --> 00:49:33.730 when you attach somebody to DC. It's just the 00:49:33.730 --> 00:49:37.469 resistance of the human body and the amount of 00:49:37.469 --> 00:49:39.130 current that's going through initially, which 00:49:39.130 --> 00:49:41.969 turns out to be very small. So you feel it when 00:49:41.969 --> 00:49:45.349 it starts, but it doesn't hurt you. It doesn't 00:49:45.349 --> 00:49:49.210 really kill you. Still don't advise licking your 00:49:49.210 --> 00:49:51.670 fingers with salt or putting salt water in the 00:49:51.670 --> 00:49:54.730 fingers and attaching them to a battery. So what 00:49:54.730 --> 00:49:56.730 we're talking about here is incidental contact. 00:49:56.989 --> 00:50:00.429 Okay. But yeah, you're safe. But that's why I've 00:50:00.429 --> 00:50:05.650 shocked myself with 110 volt line. Is this less 00:50:05.650 --> 00:50:07.989 so the 12 volt battery is less painful? Because 00:50:07.989 --> 00:50:10.690 that was a big difference between 110 volt AC 00:50:10.690 --> 00:50:16.210 and 110 volt DC. 110 volt DC. It's considered 00:50:16.210 --> 00:50:19.610 safe. Good to avoid it. You can get a momentary 00:50:19.610 --> 00:50:22.690 shock from it, but it's not going to zap you 00:50:22.690 --> 00:50:25.550 the way that a 110 -volt AC will. That's what 00:50:25.550 --> 00:50:27.590 it wants. And whatever's coming out of your socket 00:50:27.590 --> 00:50:31.110 in your house is alternating current or AC. So 00:50:31.110 --> 00:50:34.389 stay away from that. Yeah, it wasn't fun. Yeah, 00:50:34.409 --> 00:50:37.150 this is the Thomas Edison Tesla debate. Elephant 00:50:37.150 --> 00:50:41.409 debate. Okay. Yeah. So your car is direct current. 00:50:41.989 --> 00:50:49.070 Your car is direct current. Yes, sir. So the 00:50:49.070 --> 00:50:50.730 12 -volt, you're going to need a bigger motor 00:50:50.730 --> 00:50:54.809 than the 48 -volt just because you can get more 00:50:54.809 --> 00:50:58.429 power, higher power density with a 48 -volt system. 00:50:58.690 --> 00:51:01.309 So there'd be some weight savings there with 00:51:01.309 --> 00:51:06.630 a 48 -volt. Contrasting again, there's less potential 00:51:06.630 --> 00:51:11.869 for a destructive electrical arc during a short 00:51:11.869 --> 00:51:16.039 circuit in a 12 -volt system. And 48 -volt, there's 00:51:16.039 --> 00:51:19.159 significant potential, but it's unlikely to happen 00:51:19.159 --> 00:51:21.920 every day. It might happen in certain circumstances 00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:25.340 like a loose contact or a collision to break 00:51:25.340 --> 00:51:31.639 some wires, but still not a huge jeopardy. The 00:51:31.639 --> 00:51:34.360 12 -volt system in general is heavier, and the 00:51:34.360 --> 00:51:38.380 48 -volt system is lighter, so that's good. There's 00:51:38.380 --> 00:51:41.300 more current in the 12 -volt system, less current 00:51:41.300 --> 00:51:45.880 in the 48 -volt system for constant power. And 00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:50.699 so there's less bad workmanship or loose contact 00:51:50.699 --> 00:51:54.000 hazard in the 12 -volt system than in the 48 00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:57.920 -volt system. So you need to be more careful 00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:00.679 about the workmanship in the 48 -volt system 00:52:00.679 --> 00:52:02.199 to make sure you're not going to have any loose 00:52:02.199 --> 00:52:05.139 wires floating around than in the 12 -volt system. 00:52:07.539 --> 00:52:10.739 So why does anybody care? I mean, if you have 00:52:10.739 --> 00:52:12.960 the choice between the 12 -volt system and the 00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:15.539 48 -volt system, Or you just don't want to buy 00:52:15.539 --> 00:52:18.360 a new car because of the 48 -volt system. What 00:52:18.360 --> 00:52:21.059 are the basis for making that kind of decision? 00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:25.900 Well, on the pro side for 48 -volt, it has a 00:52:25.900 --> 00:52:30.340 lower current at a given power and smaller wires 00:52:30.340 --> 00:52:33.059 at constant load. Generally speaking, you need 00:52:33.059 --> 00:52:36.800 smaller motors and generators and potentially 00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:41.269 smaller electrical contacts and batteries. Sorry, 00:52:41.429 --> 00:52:42.989 by motors in this case, are you referring to 00:52:42.989 --> 00:52:46.829 the alternator or the car's engine itself? Starter 00:52:46.829 --> 00:52:50.789 motor. Okay. The alternator. The motor that's 00:52:50.789 --> 00:52:54.989 running your fan and your defroster. All those. 00:52:55.130 --> 00:52:57.170 There's a bunch of electric motors. But not like 00:52:57.170 --> 00:53:00.269 my V8 Hemi. Not the engine. Not the engine. Not 00:53:00.269 --> 00:53:05.030 the prime mover. Essentially smaller contacts. 00:53:05.090 --> 00:53:09.010 Maybe some smaller batteries. I don't know. Because 00:53:09.010 --> 00:53:12.210 there's a couple of considerations. And finally, 00:53:12.389 --> 00:53:15.690 you could have lighter weight jumper cables because 00:53:15.690 --> 00:53:18.210 the wires could be smaller. I'm not sure this 00:53:18.210 --> 00:53:20.289 is an issue for anybody, but it's a potential. 00:53:20.630 --> 00:53:24.429 On the con side for the 48 volt system, you have 00:53:24.429 --> 00:53:26.590 a higher voltage at a given power and the higher 00:53:26.590 --> 00:53:30.769 voltage implies more hazard associated with arcs 00:53:30.769 --> 00:53:36.210 and short circuits and things like that. You're 00:53:36.210 --> 00:53:39.829 encouraging actually the developers. to put higher 00:53:39.829 --> 00:53:42.409 loads into the motors that they've got because 00:53:42.409 --> 00:53:44.690 they're able to carry more electricity through 00:53:44.690 --> 00:53:48.409 a given wire. So that might encourage them to 00:53:48.409 --> 00:53:52.250 just opt the ante for how many motors they want 00:53:52.250 --> 00:53:54.550 to put in the car and what they're doing and 00:53:54.550 --> 00:53:56.710 maybe increase the speed of the motors that are 00:53:56.710 --> 00:54:00.650 moving the seat and who knows what. So not sure 00:54:00.650 --> 00:54:04.329 that that's a great thing. The motors themselves 00:54:04.329 --> 00:54:07.030 are going to have larger internal electrical 00:54:07.030 --> 00:54:10.250 loads. You have to tie the wires together and 00:54:10.250 --> 00:54:12.829 bundles and do all those kind of things when 00:54:12.829 --> 00:54:14.429 you're building an electric motor so it doesn't 00:54:14.429 --> 00:54:16.969 fly apart naturally due to the electrical loads. 00:54:17.030 --> 00:54:19.650 And those are higher for the higher voltage. 00:54:19.989 --> 00:54:22.329 I'm not sure that's an issue that affects the 00:54:22.329 --> 00:54:26.230 cost, but it's possible. You do need to have 00:54:26.230 --> 00:54:29.769 increased electrical contact quality. You've 00:54:29.769 --> 00:54:31.389 got to make sure somehow they're not going to 00:54:31.389 --> 00:54:33.449 come apart, that they're not going to vibrate 00:54:33.449 --> 00:54:36.349 loose, that they're not going to cause... In 00:54:36.349 --> 00:54:39.050 intermittent contact, that could in turn generate 00:54:39.050 --> 00:54:42.849 sparks, short circuit, high temperature electrical 00:54:42.849 --> 00:54:47.429 arc, because those can be very destructive. Batteries 00:54:47.429 --> 00:54:49.570 are going to be more expensive because you've 00:54:49.570 --> 00:54:52.409 got twice as many cells. And the number of cells 00:54:52.409 --> 00:54:57.489 will basically have a lot to say about how much 00:54:57.489 --> 00:55:01.190 the battery costs to manufacture. That's not 00:55:01.190 --> 00:55:03.730 to say the purchase price will necessarily go 00:55:03.730 --> 00:55:06.469 up. but the cost to manufacture them probably 00:55:06.469 --> 00:55:10.210 will go up. And getting back to the lighter weight 00:55:10.210 --> 00:55:13.389 jumper cables, if that is an issue for you, you're 00:55:13.389 --> 00:55:16.050 going to need better clamps on the 48 -volt system 00:55:16.050 --> 00:55:19.110 than a 12 -volt system so that you don't get 00:55:19.110 --> 00:55:22.130 all that sparking when you put them on. And also, 00:55:22.210 --> 00:55:24.030 if you're in the middle of Manitoba somewhere 00:55:24.030 --> 00:55:26.710 in the winter, there might not be another 48 00:55:26.710 --> 00:55:28.829 -volt battery around that can give you a jump. 00:55:29.349 --> 00:55:34.710 So something to think about, I guess. But that's 00:55:34.710 --> 00:55:38.030 a very brief introduction to 48 -volt systems. 00:55:38.150 --> 00:55:40.730 And a lot of the companies are migrating in that 00:55:40.730 --> 00:55:43.690 direction. So you may be seeing this coming up 00:55:43.690 --> 00:55:47.670 in your next car. So we see it with Tesla and 00:55:47.670 --> 00:55:49.590 a few other manufacturers where their electrical 00:55:49.590 --> 00:55:53.409 system is running off of 48 volts, but they still 00:55:53.409 --> 00:55:56.789 have a 12 -volt battery system, I guess, for 00:55:56.789 --> 00:56:00.360 a starter. Some do. Yeah, why wouldn't you? I 00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:01.900 don't think that's quite right. I don't think 00:56:01.900 --> 00:56:04.159 Tesla has one. I think, you know, you're talking 00:56:04.159 --> 00:56:06.780 about mostly mild hybrids that have kind of a 00:56:06.780 --> 00:56:09.300 12 -volt battery and a 48. I think the Tesla 00:56:09.300 --> 00:56:11.659 Cybertruck has got a 48 -volt system. Yeah, but 00:56:11.659 --> 00:56:12.619 I think the Model 3 has a 12 -volt system. So 00:56:12.619 --> 00:56:14.480 that's instead of the 12 -volt system. Yeah, 00:56:14.480 --> 00:56:18.539 yeah. I don't know of any car that has both. 00:56:19.059 --> 00:56:22.260 So you've got high -voltage systems that run 00:56:22.260 --> 00:56:25.630 the wheels for electric cars. Right. Right. And 00:56:25.630 --> 00:56:27.730 then you've got a lower voltage system to run 00:56:27.730 --> 00:56:32.429 the accessories to, you know, all of the little 00:56:32.429 --> 00:56:35.010 motors like windshield wipers and fans and stuff 00:56:35.010 --> 00:56:39.409 like that. So the lower voltage system in the 00:56:39.409 --> 00:56:43.710 Cybertruck and a couple of European brands is 00:56:43.710 --> 00:56:47.769 now 48 volt instead of the 12 volt. So I don't 00:56:47.769 --> 00:56:52.679 see any. I don't see any. Systems that have both 00:56:52.679 --> 00:56:56.019 48 -volt and 12 -volt systems. They're alternatives. 00:56:57.119 --> 00:57:00.159 Okay. And now can this... Sorry, go ahead. You'll 00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:02.840 see a lot of vehicles that have the 12 -volt 00:57:02.840 --> 00:57:09.639 lead -acid battery and the 48 -volt mild hybrid 00:57:09.639 --> 00:57:12.659 together, I think. Oh, my God. I don't think 00:57:12.659 --> 00:57:15.219 so. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm sorry. This episode 00:57:15.219 --> 00:57:19.949 is brought to you by lead -acid -basin. I haven't 00:57:19.949 --> 00:57:22.309 said this the entire show, but if you big supporters 00:57:22.309 --> 00:57:24.849 of lead acid acid, go to autosafety .org and 00:57:24.849 --> 00:57:28.010 click on donate. Sorry. Again, about that coffee, 00:57:28.190 --> 00:57:31.429 Anthony, you're okay with that? Just repeating 00:57:31.429 --> 00:57:35.309 what Michael said. Okay. And with 48, my last 00:57:35.309 --> 00:57:37.269 dorky quite see, I can play the dork game too. 00:57:37.550 --> 00:57:40.409 48 volt system. Cause now you can move to digital 00:57:40.409 --> 00:57:43.250 switching. Is that I, maybe you can do a 12 volt 00:57:43.250 --> 00:57:45.929 systems too. So you can have less wire runs. 00:57:47.159 --> 00:57:49.119 I mean, you don't have to do point -to -point. 00:57:49.139 --> 00:57:51.039 I think that's a red herring. I think the digital 00:57:51.039 --> 00:57:54.619 switching is about the same for either one on 00:57:54.619 --> 00:57:59.099 the digital side. Digital systems generally run 00:57:59.099 --> 00:58:04.039 out these days at 1 .2 volts. So you've got components 00:58:04.039 --> 00:58:07.360 that act the way relays used to act that take 00:58:07.360 --> 00:58:09.440 the digital signal and allow the passage of the 00:58:09.440 --> 00:58:12.519 higher voltage current. But on the digital side, 00:58:12.659 --> 00:58:15.679 it's still very low voltage. All right. Well, 00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:18.400 that's a very informative update to the world 00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:21.159 of 48 -volt batteries. So don't be afraid of 00:58:21.159 --> 00:58:23.519 48 volts. I'm just going to hold off until we 00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:27.440 move to 96 volts. You'll be waiting a long time. 00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:31.400 You don't know me. Good for you. Yeah. Speaking 00:58:31.400 --> 00:58:33.039 of people who looks like they're going to be 00:58:33.039 --> 00:58:35.500 waiting for a long time is Nissan Leaf owners. 00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:39.079 Guardian has an article titled, Shockingly Bad. 00:58:39.340 --> 00:58:42.619 Nissan Leaf Drivers Voice Anger Over App Shutdowns. 00:58:42.619 --> 00:58:45.260 Quoting. Owners of some Nissan LEAF electric 00:58:45.260 --> 00:58:47.380 vehicles are angry after the carmaker announced 00:58:47.380 --> 00:58:49.440 it would shut down an app that lets them remotely 00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:51.360 control battery charging and other functions. 00:58:51.639 --> 00:58:57.219 And this brings up a whole issue of what happens 00:58:57.219 --> 00:59:00.760 as a car becomes more software than hardware. 00:59:01.199 --> 00:59:05.340 And we've seen it with Fisker, their Ocean. Like, 00:59:05.340 --> 00:59:07.159 you can't use any of the software really with 00:59:07.159 --> 00:59:08.900 their stuff anymore because the company doesn't 00:59:08.900 --> 00:59:12.369 exist. We've all experienced this with by subscribing 00:59:12.369 --> 00:59:17.050 to some silly music video system where all of 00:59:17.050 --> 00:59:19.429 a sudden, hey, I thought I had all this music 00:59:19.429 --> 00:59:21.949 movie video system stuff, but that service no 00:59:21.949 --> 00:59:24.250 longer exists. And now it's happening to your 00:59:24.250 --> 00:59:27.429 car when everything becomes amplified. So like 00:59:27.429 --> 00:59:29.909 if I, you know, because me, I said, hey, BMW, 00:59:30.130 --> 00:59:33.010 I want to pay for heated seats in my car. I want 00:59:33.010 --> 00:59:35.329 to subscribe to this. And they said, sir, you 00:59:35.329 --> 00:59:37.630 want a Toyota? And I was like, give me a hat, 00:59:37.730 --> 00:59:41.360 something. But what happens when they just turn 00:59:41.360 --> 00:59:45.639 that service off? Are consumers just going to 00:59:45.639 --> 00:59:48.840 have to be up in arms and hope they turn things 00:59:48.840 --> 00:59:52.900 back on? Well, software changes all the time, 00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:55.260 right? This goes back to the discussion about 00:59:55.260 --> 00:59:58.900 the Waymo claiming safety based upon software 00:59:58.900 --> 01:00:02.800 that they're no longer using. So it's a big issue, 01:00:02.840 --> 01:00:06.579 a big opportunity for companies to throw sand 01:00:06.579 --> 01:00:08.880 or... Throw dust in your eyes? Is that what it 01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:12.880 is? Not throw sand in your eyes, but it's kind 01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:15.260 of inside baseball, but this is a huge issue 01:00:15.260 --> 01:00:18.820 throughout the industry. Yeah, I mean, ultimately 01:00:18.820 --> 01:00:21.340 here, it's just the question of, you know, it's 01:00:21.340 --> 01:00:23.360 something that's hard for consumers to determine 01:00:23.360 --> 01:00:25.260 at the time they're purchasing a new vehicle 01:00:25.260 --> 01:00:28.440 is whether the technology in that vehicle will 01:00:28.440 --> 01:00:31.519 still be able to be used within the lifespan 01:00:31.519 --> 01:00:34.519 of the car. Here you've got... Nissan LEAF owners 01:00:34.519 --> 01:00:37.420 who have, you know, vehicles that are seven years 01:00:37.420 --> 01:00:39.920 old, in some cases about four years old, and 01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:42.679 they're completely losing their ability to do 01:00:42.679 --> 01:00:45.199 things like, I think it's remote start and heated 01:00:45.199 --> 01:00:48.119 seat and some other features that they assumed 01:00:48.119 --> 01:00:51.019 they had when they bought the vehicle. And Nissan 01:00:51.019 --> 01:00:53.360 is now saying, well, if you want these features, 01:00:53.500 --> 01:00:58.940 you're going to have to pay a subscription. Unfortunately, 01:00:59.219 --> 01:01:02.260 I think this is the future for a lot of hopefully 01:01:02.260 --> 01:01:07.840 non -safety related features in the car. We still 01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:09.920 haven't seen any manufacturers who have made 01:01:09.920 --> 01:01:12.900 any safety features available via subscription. 01:01:13.099 --> 01:01:17.860 Although, if there's ever any evidence that some 01:01:17.860 --> 01:01:21.940 of the automated features that are being charged 01:01:21.940 --> 01:01:24.960 for a monthly subscription do provide a safety 01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:27.309 benefit, hopefully that'll get... We'll get there 01:01:27.309 --> 01:01:30.230 one day. Then there's an argument there that 01:01:30.230 --> 01:01:34.010 safety features should not be a subscription. 01:01:34.449 --> 01:01:38.449 They should be provided for everyone. But at 01:01:38.449 --> 01:01:41.650 any rate, I completely identify with the frustrations 01:01:41.650 --> 01:01:43.650 of all the Nissan LEAF owners here who bought 01:01:43.650 --> 01:01:47.510 a vehicle and are finding that it is obsolete 01:01:47.510 --> 01:01:51.719 within four to seven years after purchase. I 01:01:51.719 --> 01:01:53.539 have a feature on my car that's never worked. 01:01:53.659 --> 01:01:55.400 You click on the map button and it's like, you 01:01:55.400 --> 01:01:57.599 don't have this service. I don't even know how 01:01:57.599 --> 01:01:59.900 to get that service. I just plug in my phone. 01:02:00.739 --> 01:02:02.900 Yeah, it's, you know, a lot of manufacturers, 01:02:03.199 --> 01:02:05.320 you know, and Toyota, I guess you have, is one 01:02:05.320 --> 01:02:07.599 of them that I've experienced where they require 01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:10.019 you to update your maps and your vehicle every 01:02:10.019 --> 01:02:12.199 few years and they charge you a premium for that. 01:02:12.960 --> 01:02:15.739 which drives most people to use their smartphone 01:02:15.739 --> 01:02:19.400 instead and use Google Maps or Waze or whatever 01:02:19.400 --> 01:02:21.659 they decide. They drive them to do it. That's 01:02:21.659 --> 01:02:23.519 exactly the situation with my four -year -old 01:02:23.519 --> 01:02:27.420 Subaru. They want me to update several services 01:02:27.420 --> 01:02:30.699 and pay subscription fees. And, you know, interestingly, 01:02:30.860 --> 01:02:34.449 I find life goes on without subscribing. Yeah. 01:02:34.469 --> 01:02:37.090 I mean, the amounts are absurd. I mean, essentially, 01:02:38.489 --> 01:02:40.250 I mean, back in the day, at least this was probably 01:02:40.250 --> 01:02:42.550 10 years ago when I was involved in it, you had 01:02:42.550 --> 01:02:45.269 to go to the dealer and they basically popped 01:02:45.269 --> 01:02:48.630 the DVD into your car, uploaded the software 01:02:48.630 --> 01:02:51.429 and it was done and you're out 600 bucks just 01:02:51.429 --> 01:02:54.250 for that. So the prices were outrageous and it's 01:02:54.250 --> 01:02:57.030 kind of a money grab on the part of dealers and 01:02:57.030 --> 01:02:59.789 manufacturers. Crazy. Speaking of dealers and 01:02:59.789 --> 01:03:02.960 manufacturers, let's do some recalls. Starting 01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:08.059 off with Hyundai, 46 ,787 vehicles, the 2026 01:03:08.059 --> 01:03:12.639 Palisade, Palisade Hybrid. On -fastened seatbelts 01:03:12.639 --> 01:03:16.219 could increase the risk. What? Okay. The internal 01:03:16.219 --> 01:03:18.840 wiring within the third row left -hand driver's 01:03:18.840 --> 01:03:22.320 side seatbelt buckles may become damaged due 01:03:22.320 --> 01:03:24.019 to excessive tension applied when the buckle 01:03:24.019 --> 01:03:27.119 is pulled. Damage to the buckle wiring can prevent 01:03:27.119 --> 01:03:29.159 detection of the seatbelt latch status for the 01:03:29.159 --> 01:03:31.809 third row driver's side seating position. This 01:03:31.809 --> 01:03:35.809 is a really big car. It's got a third row. So 01:03:35.809 --> 01:03:38.590 it seems. These are the same vehicles, I believe, 01:03:38.710 --> 01:03:42.650 that were involved in that fatality of the child 01:03:42.650 --> 01:03:45.190 who was crushed in the seat a few weeks back. 01:03:45.409 --> 01:03:49.849 The kind of the fancy models of the Hyundai Palisade. 01:03:50.010 --> 01:03:54.530 Oh, boy. Get that fixed. But when is that? They 01:03:54.530 --> 01:03:57.869 were. It looks like, you know, owners. Essentially, 01:03:57.909 --> 01:03:59.650 what's going on here is the vehicle is not able 01:03:59.650 --> 01:04:03.280 to detect if the. buckle is properly latched 01:04:03.280 --> 01:04:07.579 um and so if someone is unbuckled the warning 01:04:07.579 --> 01:04:13.599 will not go off um And also, if you're plugged 01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:15.619 in and the warning's not going off, you think 01:04:15.619 --> 01:04:17.280 your buckle's latched, but it's not. You have 01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:19.579 a crash. You're not secured in the vehicle by 01:04:19.579 --> 01:04:22.380 your seatbelt. So big problem. It looks like 01:04:22.380 --> 01:04:25.099 owners will be waiting a couple months till mid 01:04:25.099 --> 01:04:29.159 -May before they hear about a fix. And I think 01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:34.260 the fix is going to be fixing the wiring that's 01:04:34.260 --> 01:04:37.619 damaged, the wiring harness. Yeah, it says that 01:04:37.619 --> 01:04:40.579 the fix is the internal wiring harness using 01:04:40.579 --> 01:04:43.239 the remedy of the seatbelt assembly is 110 millimeters, 01:04:43.519 --> 01:04:46.539 longer to reduce tension during handling. They're 01:04:46.539 --> 01:04:48.739 just putting a bigger there. And come on, Fred, 01:04:48.820 --> 01:04:51.420 math quiz, 110 millimeters. What's that in fathoms? 01:04:53.679 --> 01:04:56.659 Fathoms? Next recall. Six light years. Perfect. 01:04:56.679 --> 01:04:58.739 What is that? That's a quarter. That's a third 01:04:58.739 --> 01:05:01.360 of a fathom. There you go. Now it's like .00 01:05:01.360 --> 01:05:06.119 something, I bet. Toyota. 8 ,230 vehicles. The 01:05:06.119 --> 01:05:10.880 2024 to 2026 Toyota Tundra Hybrid. The 2024 to 01:05:10.880 --> 01:05:15.559 2025 Tundra. The Tacoma Hybrid. The regular Tacoma. 01:05:15.599 --> 01:05:18.400 The Sequoia Hybrid. RAV4. Land Cruiser. Highlander 01:05:18.400 --> 01:05:20.539 Hybrid. Grand Highlander. By the time I get to 01:05:20.539 --> 01:05:22.099 the end of this, if it is a rear view camera 01:05:22.099 --> 01:05:24.460 recall, I'm going to be... It is not. Yeah, okay, 01:05:24.539 --> 01:05:26.500 good. Due to a system error, the total weight 01:05:26.500 --> 01:05:27.920 of the accessories installed in the subject vehicles 01:05:27.920 --> 01:05:31.659 was miscalculated. Whoa. This resulted in a load 01:05:31.659 --> 01:05:34.360 carrying capacity modification label with an 01:05:34.360 --> 01:05:36.639 understated reduction in load carrying capacity 01:05:36.639 --> 01:05:38.860 greater than 1 % of the actual added weight. 01:05:39.420 --> 01:05:43.340 Oh, OK. So this is it's got to put a new sticker. 01:05:44.059 --> 01:05:46.320 Pretty much. This is one of those recalls where 01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:49.880 there's there's no nothing, no physical defect 01:05:49.880 --> 01:05:55.219 in the car. However, the car is does not. match 01:05:55.219 --> 01:05:58.719 the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. In 01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:00.719 this case, it's Federal Motor Vehicle Safety 01:06:00.719 --> 01:06:04.019 Standard 110, which is mainly concerned with 01:06:04.019 --> 01:06:06.679 gross vehicle weight labeling. Not something 01:06:06.679 --> 01:06:08.599 we talk about a lot here, but I threw this one 01:06:08.599 --> 01:06:13.360 in just because. It's interesting to note that 01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:15.780 what this is going to require essentially is 01:06:15.780 --> 01:06:17.340 that you're going to go to your dealer and they're 01:06:17.340 --> 01:06:21.139 going to replace the label on your vehicle. And 01:06:21.139 --> 01:06:23.860 owners will have that available in about two 01:06:23.860 --> 01:06:26.119 months. And this isn't something they could just 01:06:26.119 --> 01:06:28.300 mail the new label to people and have them do 01:06:28.300 --> 01:06:33.420 it themselves? You know, I have I have I am assuming 01:06:33.420 --> 01:06:35.539 that they could do that as well, but I'm not 01:06:35.539 --> 01:06:38.440 sure exactly where this label is. Maybe it's, 01:06:38.440 --> 01:06:41.400 you know, in a spot where they they really feel 01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:43.679 like they need to be the ones that do it to ensure 01:06:43.679 --> 01:06:45.599 it's there. I don't know. Well, we got to check 01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:48.019 your we have to rotate the air in your tires, 01:06:48.079 --> 01:06:53.130 too. Last recall, Chrysler 117 ,902 vehicles, 01:06:53.190 --> 01:06:57.389 the 2024 -2025 Jeep Wrangler 4XE, the Cherokee 01:06:57.389 --> 01:07:02.730 4XE. They may have been built with an engine 01:07:02.730 --> 01:07:05.010 which may be contaminated with sand from the 01:07:05.010 --> 01:07:10.909 casting process. Oh, man. Sand from the casting 01:07:10.909 --> 01:07:13.010 process can contaminate internal engine components, 01:07:13.130 --> 01:07:15.829 leading to a catastrophic engine failure. which 01:07:15.829 --> 01:07:18.590 can result in a vehicle fire unexpected and unrecoverable 01:07:18.590 --> 01:07:22.809 loss of propulsion. So they're sandcasting, which 01:07:22.809 --> 01:07:26.050 is fine. It's been going on for how long has 01:07:26.050 --> 01:07:29.650 sandcasting been going on, Fred? Centuries? A 01:07:29.650 --> 01:07:33.070 couple thousand years, maybe? Yeah. And, hey, 01:07:33.329 --> 01:07:39.000 you know, they couldn't get it right. This thing's 01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:41.599 going to happen. Yeah. And, you know, this is 01:07:41.599 --> 01:07:44.679 a recall from last year, right? This was an update 01:07:44.679 --> 01:07:51.159 that Jeep just put into the recall file because 01:07:51.159 --> 01:07:54.599 they have, you know, essentially been trying 01:07:54.599 --> 01:07:59.320 to figure this one out for a while. And they've 01:07:59.320 --> 01:08:01.940 determined that, you know, some folks, they're 01:08:01.940 --> 01:08:05.699 basically going to inspect your vehicle. using 01:08:05.699 --> 01:08:08.260 software and they're going to try to determine 01:08:08.260 --> 01:08:11.000 if you have engine bearing failure. If you have 01:08:11.000 --> 01:08:12.719 it, I think they're going to replace the long 01:08:12.719 --> 01:08:16.239 block in your engine. If you don't have detected 01:08:16.239 --> 01:08:18.119 engine bearing failure, they're going to give 01:08:18.119 --> 01:08:23.239 you a software. So, you know, I think owners 01:08:23.239 --> 01:08:26.180 have been waiting quite some time for this one 01:08:26.180 --> 01:08:30.640 around seven, six, seven months before they'll 01:08:30.640 --> 01:08:33.859 be able to get the remedy. But expect that in 01:08:33.859 --> 01:08:36.880 a little over a month. Unlike the last recall, 01:08:37.060 --> 01:08:40.680 this is one absolutely 100 % positively get there. 01:08:40.699 --> 01:08:43.460 The day one, this recall is available. The fix 01:08:43.460 --> 01:08:47.899 is available 100%. And with that, that's our 01:08:47.899 --> 01:08:52.340 show. We'll be back next week. Thank you for 01:08:52.340 --> 01:08:56.119 listening. Bye -bye. For more information, visit 01:08:56.119 --> 01:08:58.720 www .autosafety .org.