WEBVTT 00:00:01.960 --> 00:00:05.559 You're listening to their auto be a law, the 00:00:05.559 --> 00:00:08.240 center for auto safety podcast with executive 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:11.720 director, Michael Brooks, chief engineer, Fred 00:00:11.720 --> 00:00:15.619 Perkins, and hosted by me, Anthony Cimino for 00:00:15.619 --> 00:00:18.300 over 50 years, the center for auto safety has 00:00:18.300 --> 00:00:28.460 worked to make cars safer. Okay. Never got promoted 00:00:28.460 --> 00:00:31.089 back to the world of the living. Okay. Welcome 00:00:31.089 --> 00:00:34.030 to the world of the living folks. It is a new 00:00:34.030 --> 00:00:36.609 episode of our podcast. It is Monday, Wednesday. 00:00:36.770 --> 00:00:40.009 Wow. Wednesday, March 11th. You know, we start 00:00:40.009 --> 00:00:41.850 recording 15 minutes earlier and the brain's 00:00:41.850 --> 00:00:45.390 just not working yet. We're going to start off 00:00:45.390 --> 00:00:47.909 this week with a topic that I'm personally getting 00:00:47.909 --> 00:00:51.869 tired of. I know Michael's been tired of it forever. 00:00:52.409 --> 00:00:57.950 Fred loves it though. Ready? Waymo. Oh boy. Oh 00:00:57.950 --> 00:01:03.119 boy. Oh boy. So the NTSB has come up with their 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:07.299 preliminary investigation, their review of the 00:01:07.299 --> 00:01:09.900 investigation that happened in Santa Monica, 00:01:10.060 --> 00:01:13.560 where in the school zone, the Waymo hit a kid. 00:01:13.980 --> 00:01:16.120 And Waymo's like, hey, we did nothing wrong, 00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:18.920 man. And what they were really like was, hey, 00:01:19.019 --> 00:01:20.840 we did it better than a human. Yes, that's right. 00:01:21.299 --> 00:01:24.400 We hit your kids so much better than you, you 00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:29.359 meat sack. Oh, boy. But the NTSB, we. We have 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:31.219 a link to it here. They go through the whole 00:01:31.219 --> 00:01:34.019 thing and saying this is where it happened. What 00:01:34.019 --> 00:01:38.420 what what went on? I don't know. I mean, they 00:01:38.420 --> 00:01:41.680 weren't speeding as far as we can tell. You know, 00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:45.379 it looks like there was there's kind of a 25 00:01:45.379 --> 00:01:48.540 mile per hour school zone and a 15 mile per hour 00:01:48.540 --> 00:01:51.219 school zone very close to each other. But this 00:01:51.219 --> 00:01:54.620 was in the 25. So. I think we discussed before 00:01:54.620 --> 00:01:56.700 that it may have been a 15 -mile -per -hour zone. 00:01:56.920 --> 00:02:01.359 And the Waymo was going 17, which technically 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:03.700 is over the speed limit. However, it looks like 00:02:03.700 --> 00:02:07.659 they were well under. Yeah, but they say part 00:02:07.659 --> 00:02:10.539 of this is after the collision, a Waymo road 00:02:10.539 --> 00:02:13.659 assistance agent in Novi, Michigan, contacted 00:02:13.659 --> 00:02:17.780 911 and later provided the vehicle with directions 00:02:17.780 --> 00:02:20.319 to move to the curb on 24th Street north of the 00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:23.210 crash site. This brings up a couple of things. 00:02:23.349 --> 00:02:26.870 One, how when did this person in Novi, Michigan, 00:02:26.930 --> 00:02:29.650 get alerted to this? They get like, oh, we had 00:02:29.650 --> 00:02:31.969 a little impact on the sensor. Do we heard a 00:02:31.969 --> 00:02:35.789 child scream? But further from that is the person 00:02:35.789 --> 00:02:38.849 in Novi, Michigan, provided the vehicle directions 00:02:38.849 --> 00:02:42.490 to move to the curb. Is that not a human taking 00:02:42.490 --> 00:02:46.689 over the driving task? I mean, I think it pretty 00:02:46.689 --> 00:02:49.430 clearly is a human taking over part of the driving 00:02:49.430 --> 00:02:54.400 task. And, you know, there's beyond this specific 00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:56.340 situation, I think there are a lot of concerns 00:02:56.340 --> 00:03:00.560 about remote drivers, justified concerns in a 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:02.360 lot of areas. And then we see it. You know, we 00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:03.780 talked about this a couple of weeks ago when 00:03:03.780 --> 00:03:06.159 we mainly focused on remote driving an episode. 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:09.439 You know, there's a range of remote driving behaviors 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:13.900 from, you know, an RC car through. whatever it 00:03:13.900 --> 00:03:16.879 is that tesla is doing with its vehicles um where 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:20.020 they clearly have someone ready to take over 00:03:20.020 --> 00:03:22.699 you know either that's a remote person or a safety 00:03:22.699 --> 00:03:25.979 driver in the vehicle anytime too you know what 00:03:25.979 --> 00:03:29.500 what waymo and zooks are kind of doing where 00:03:29.500 --> 00:03:32.340 they don't want to call these people drivers 00:03:32.340 --> 00:03:34.620 they want to call them assistants zooks had a 00:03:34.620 --> 00:03:39.460 really fun name for their, I think it was a tactician 00:03:39.460 --> 00:03:42.580 is what Zoox is calling them. So they're trying 00:03:42.580 --> 00:03:47.159 to kind of blur the lines there and ensure that 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:51.979 most of us don't really understand the process 00:03:51.979 --> 00:03:54.460 that's going on there and also blur the lines 00:03:54.460 --> 00:03:57.330 of liability. in some respects. I mean, if someone 00:03:57.330 --> 00:04:01.389 is not deemed a remote driver or somehow responsible 00:04:01.389 --> 00:04:04.590 for the vehicle's actions, it's going to be much 00:04:04.590 --> 00:04:07.610 harder to, you know, bring that person or hold 00:04:07.610 --> 00:04:10.990 that person accountable for their mistakes. So 00:04:10.990 --> 00:04:13.229 there's a lot going on here beyond this crash, 00:04:13.449 --> 00:04:16.110 I think. And if you look into the way that, you 00:04:16.110 --> 00:04:18.569 know, Waymo is describing situations versus, 00:04:18.629 --> 00:04:21.329 you know, the way that others might look at those 00:04:21.329 --> 00:04:24.519 situations, there's a lot to resolve. in the 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:28.879 law and in safe, our approach to safety as we 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:31.040 move forward with autonomous vehicles. Yeah. 00:04:31.060 --> 00:04:34.019 The NTSB is still investigating this specific 00:04:34.019 --> 00:04:37.120 incident. Once I guess we had an update, we will 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:39.680 let you know, but continuing in the world of 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:42.079 Waymo. Now this is either, I don't know which 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:44.420 my gas light is this week. Okay. Cause there's 00:04:44.420 --> 00:04:47.879 this fast company article, which is okay. It's 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:50.769 a very long article about. It's titled Uncovered 00:04:50.769 --> 00:04:53.050 Records Reveal the Hidden Costs of Waymo Robo 00:04:53.050 --> 00:04:56.449 Taxis on San Francisco Streets. And it goes into 00:04:56.449 --> 00:04:59.670 basically saying how the Waymos, as we know, 00:04:59.709 --> 00:05:01.230 will crap out in the middle of the street. And 00:05:01.230 --> 00:05:04.290 then the police and first emergency first responders 00:05:04.290 --> 00:05:07.149 have to get in there and be on paid valets, which 00:05:07.149 --> 00:05:09.490 is great. And they document a lot of this stuff. 00:05:10.009 --> 00:05:12.810 You know, Waymo says things like Waymo is committed 00:05:12.810 --> 00:05:16.310 to continuous improvement, says Levante. Cavalcante, 00:05:16.509 --> 00:05:18.350 who serves as Waymo's director of operations 00:05:18.350 --> 00:05:22.029 like that. Yeah, we're all committed to continuous 00:05:22.029 --> 00:05:24.850 improvement. What is an AV company, not a yoga 00:05:24.850 --> 00:05:28.149 class? This is nonsense. I don't know. I love 00:05:28.149 --> 00:05:31.050 ice cream too much. But some of the issue I have 00:05:31.050 --> 00:05:34.550 here is the article itself. They start linking 00:05:34.550 --> 00:05:38.930 to as if it's factual is some dubious opinions, 00:05:39.129 --> 00:05:42.350 like saying that Waymo's are potentially safer 00:05:42.350 --> 00:05:44.870 than humans. And they link to an article in Nature, 00:05:45.029 --> 00:05:49.009 which. is deeply flawed like this research it 00:05:49.009 --> 00:05:51.910 links to that new york times op -ed piece which 00:05:51.910 --> 00:05:54.230 we talked about with a doctor who has no background 00:05:54.230 --> 00:05:58.110 in auto safety and was really just a non -paid 00:05:58.110 --> 00:06:02.389 fool for waymo and uh and waymo itself for its 00:06:02.389 --> 00:06:06.930 safety records yeah well i mean just so you know 00:06:06.930 --> 00:06:09.870 you're you're leading into my i know that's why 00:06:09.870 --> 00:06:13.149 i'm sticking i know you want to hit you're a 00:06:13.149 --> 00:06:16.350 poaching i'm not an intellectual poacher i am 00:06:16.350 --> 00:06:18.569 not i'll stay away from fred's gaslight and just 00:06:18.569 --> 00:06:20.930 note that there is there is so much nonsense 00:06:20.930 --> 00:06:23.569 on the internet today written by people with 00:06:23.569 --> 00:06:27.329 little understanding or with an agenda that it's 00:06:27.329 --> 00:06:29.629 it's it's kind of a lot it's become a lot like 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:33.079 data. You can pick and choose your data to make 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:34.939 an argument. You can pick and choose the links 00:06:34.939 --> 00:06:37.100 you want that can say the types of things you 00:06:37.100 --> 00:06:39.459 want to structure your argument. So it's not, 00:06:39.500 --> 00:06:43.069 you know. We see this all the time. Right. And 00:06:43.069 --> 00:06:45.910 all sorts of articles, particularly around AVs, 00:06:45.930 --> 00:06:49.370 which is an area that is continually developing. 00:06:49.490 --> 00:06:53.689 And there's just a lot of novelty in this area. 00:06:53.750 --> 00:06:56.949 And that's going to lead to misinformation, disinformation 00:06:56.949 --> 00:07:00.490 and, you know, frankly, a lot of unknowns that 00:07:00.490 --> 00:07:03.569 contribute to this kind of, you know, writers 00:07:03.569 --> 00:07:06.829 grasping for information wherever they can get 00:07:06.829 --> 00:07:10.600 it. Yeah. So, Fred, my. My Gaslight is really 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:13.720 the Fast Company article itself. That's who it 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:16.019 is. And I don't think they're intentionally doing 00:07:16.019 --> 00:07:20.879 it. I think this is more of the journalist on 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:23.980 a deadline and kind of being like, well, here's 00:07:23.980 --> 00:07:25.720 some information. It was in the New York Times. 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:29.079 It must be good. Here's something in nature. 00:07:29.939 --> 00:07:33.579 It's an incompetent, lazy journalist. And my 00:07:33.579 --> 00:07:37.100 Gaslight goes into exactly how and why that's 00:07:37.100 --> 00:07:41.459 so. Take it away, Mr. Perkins. All right. So 00:07:41.459 --> 00:07:45.040 we're talking about this article by Fast Company. 00:07:45.779 --> 00:07:48.540 And the title of that is Uncovered Records Reveal 00:07:48.540 --> 00:07:52.259 the Hidden Cost of Waymo Robotaxis on San Francisco 00:07:52.259 --> 00:07:55.759 Streets. So that's fine. There's a lot of that. 00:07:55.819 --> 00:07:58.740 We'll go into more of that in a time later. But 00:07:58.740 --> 00:08:03.019 quoting from it, research suggests that autonomous 00:08:03.019 --> 00:08:06.310 cars can outperform human drivers. And are even 00:08:06.310 --> 00:08:08.350 less likely to be involved in serious accidents. 00:08:08.750 --> 00:08:12.649 This links back to a New York Times article. 00:08:13.529 --> 00:08:17.569 And that New York Times article in turn references, 00:08:17.569 --> 00:08:24.370 well, information provided by Waymo on their 00:08:24.370 --> 00:08:27.550 website. And so I took a little bit deeper dive 00:08:27.550 --> 00:08:33.409 into that. And the Waymo references three different 00:08:33.409 --> 00:08:38.299 papers. all of which were based on data that 00:08:38.299 --> 00:08:43.299 was produced in 2022, so very early versions 00:08:43.299 --> 00:08:46.960 of Waymo driver, when it was still restricted 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:51.059 to low -speed operations in a limited area. So 00:08:51.059 --> 00:08:54.779 you can't really generalize this into the modern 00:08:54.779 --> 00:08:56.860 versions of the software, the current driver, 00:08:57.019 --> 00:09:00.080 which is several generations removed from the 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:04.059 data that they claim justifies their genetic. 00:09:06.569 --> 00:09:10.029 reductions in accidents. So I looked at those 00:09:10.029 --> 00:09:16.710 three references and first is titled the MASH 00:09:16.710 --> 00:09:21.590 case control analysis of autonomous versus human 00:09:21.590 --> 00:09:25.049 driven vehicles. And a key statement in there 00:09:25.049 --> 00:09:29.549 is the analysis suggests that accidents of vehicles 00:09:29.549 --> 00:09:32.250 equipped with advanced driving systems generally 00:09:32.250 --> 00:09:35.070 have a lower chance of occurring than human driven 00:09:35.070 --> 00:09:38.129 vehicles in most of similar accident scenarios. 00:09:38.429 --> 00:09:41.190 However, accidents involving advanced driving 00:09:41.190 --> 00:09:44.210 systems occur more frequently than human driven 00:09:44.210 --> 00:09:47.009 vehicle accidents under dawn, dusk, or turning 00:09:47.009 --> 00:09:52.330 conditions, which is 5 .25 and 1 .98 times higher 00:09:52.330 --> 00:09:56.769 respectively. So this article says that it's 00:09:56.769 --> 00:10:00.149 producing lower, that AVs are producing lower 00:10:00.149 --> 00:10:02.230 accident rates, but then when it puts the numbers 00:10:02.230 --> 00:10:05.360 on it, the accident rates are actually Five or 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:09.480 twice as high as the human -driven vehicles based 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:12.279 on their data. And that article actually included 00:10:12.279 --> 00:10:17.100 ADAS systems. So it shouldn't even be remotely 00:10:17.100 --> 00:10:20.100 relevant to an overall analysis of ADAS. Right. 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:22.659 So that's one of my points. There's a lot of 00:10:22.659 --> 00:10:26.379 irrelevancy in these studies underlying the Waymo 00:10:26.379 --> 00:10:29.820 publication on their own website. I'll also point 00:10:29.820 --> 00:10:33.480 out that these are touted as being peer -reviewed. 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:36.600 But there's no evidence that anybody outside 00:10:36.600 --> 00:10:40.120 of Waymo employees ever was involved in these 00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:42.879 studies. So all of the names that are attached 00:10:42.879 --> 00:10:46.860 to it are all Waymo employees. On the second 00:10:46.860 --> 00:10:48.980 reference, the data on self -driving cars is 00:10:48.980 --> 00:10:51.580 clear. We have to change course. This is the 00:10:51.580 --> 00:10:55.460 one by Jonathan Slotkin, who is a neurosurgeon, 00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:58.740 which I'm not sure how that qualifies him to 00:10:58.740 --> 00:11:02.340 be a statistician associated with. Self -driving 00:11:02.340 --> 00:11:07.179 vehicles, but that's okay. Watch out if you need 00:11:07.179 --> 00:11:09.919 neurosurgery, I guess. The self -driving car 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:13.039 company, Waymo, recently released data. Okay, 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:17.539 so where is the data? The three references are, 00:11:17.700 --> 00:11:22.059 as I said, by Waymo, based on data from 2022, 00:11:22.500 --> 00:11:26.500 which is not even remotely related to the current 00:11:26.500 --> 00:11:30.210 operating system. And the one by Scanlon says 00:11:30.210 --> 00:11:33.490 this study focused exclusively on data from 2022. 00:11:34.629 --> 00:11:38.769 It was actually published in 2024. And then the 00:11:38.769 --> 00:11:42.090 second one is a comparison of Waymo rider -only 00:11:42.090 --> 00:11:45.909 crash data to human benchmarks at 7 million miles 00:11:45.909 --> 00:11:49.750 in 2024. Well, they're not saying they've been 00:11:49.750 --> 00:11:54.830 up to, what, 150, 200, some many hundreds of 00:11:54.830 --> 00:11:58.970 millions of miles. So this is... based on very 00:11:58.970 --> 00:12:01.070 early information, a different version of the 00:12:01.070 --> 00:12:03.710 software than the current using now, and a different 00:12:03.710 --> 00:12:06.629 version of the actual vehicle itself than they're 00:12:06.629 --> 00:12:10.509 using now. So the relevance of one to the other 00:12:10.509 --> 00:12:14.070 is not clear. According from the article, the 00:12:14.070 --> 00:12:16.929 direction and significance of comparisons in 00:12:16.929 --> 00:12:20.549 any property damage or injury outcome group are 00:12:20.549 --> 00:12:23.730 inconclusive due to difficulties in estimating 00:12:23.730 --> 00:12:26.620 a matching human benchmark. So one of the key 00:12:26.620 --> 00:12:31.259 documents underlying all of this is it's irrelevant 00:12:31.259 --> 00:12:35.519 and inconclusive. And the third one is titled 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:38.580 Dynamic Benchmarks, Spatial and Temporal Alignment 00:12:38.580 --> 00:12:42.440 for ADS Performance Evaluation. And in this article, 00:12:42.539 --> 00:12:46.679 they don't make any claims at all about the reduction 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:49.600 in accidents associated with the automatic drivers. 00:12:50.299 --> 00:12:52.919 All it talks about is how if you use different 00:12:53.789 --> 00:12:56.590 methods of analysis, you come up with different 00:12:56.590 --> 00:12:59.809 answers. For example, the time of day adjustment 00:12:59.809 --> 00:13:02.750 in San Francisco, limited to this region due 00:13:02.750 --> 00:13:06.129 to data availability, resulted in adjusted crash 00:13:06.129 --> 00:13:10.570 rates, 2 % lower to 16 % higher than adjusted 00:13:10.570 --> 00:13:15.789 rates, depending on severity level. So the website 00:13:15.789 --> 00:13:19.350 says 90 % reduction. The underlying data says, 00:13:19.490 --> 00:13:22.750 well, hell, we don't even know. And if you believe 00:13:22.750 --> 00:13:26.450 it, The data, even though we don't really trust 00:13:26.450 --> 00:13:31.190 it, it's either 2 % lower or 15 % higher. So 00:13:31.190 --> 00:13:34.649 it's not clear to me where these claims are coming 00:13:34.649 --> 00:13:38.570 from. But generally speaking, all the peers that 00:13:38.570 --> 00:13:41.870 they reference are Waymo employees. They're not 00:13:41.870 --> 00:13:44.309 the customer independent reviewers, which are 00:13:44.309 --> 00:13:47.269 usually involved in, quote, peer review, close 00:13:47.269 --> 00:13:50.700 quote. It's all old data. Doesn't include the 00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:53.460 latest versions of Waymo driver software or hardware. 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:57.299 Does not include the bulk of miles driven by 00:13:57.299 --> 00:14:00.419 Waymo. It's restricted to small areas and low 00:14:00.419 --> 00:14:05.259 speeds associated with driving before 2022. The 00:14:05.259 --> 00:14:10.340 comparisons are questionable at best. So I'm 00:14:10.340 --> 00:14:13.440 nominating this as a great example of fecal locution, 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:17.240 which is bullshit emerging from people's mouths. 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:22.220 getting my Gaslight award for this week. So who 00:14:22.220 --> 00:14:25.580 specifically gets the Gaslight award? Waymo. 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:29.399 Waymo? Because they originated all this nonsense. 00:14:29.539 --> 00:14:32.340 Okay. And it's been filtered through the New 00:14:32.340 --> 00:14:35.259 York Times and now filtered through, what's that 00:14:35.259 --> 00:14:37.269 other one? Fast Company. Yeah, it's multiple 00:14:37.269 --> 00:14:39.669 sources at this point. Now, I will say that the 00:14:39.669 --> 00:14:41.649 article does a pretty good job of looking at 00:14:41.649 --> 00:14:45.590 the kind of the first responder issue and speaking 00:14:45.590 --> 00:14:47.750 with some of the folks in San Francisco on the 00:14:47.750 --> 00:14:51.610 ground. So, you know, we see this a lot, though. 00:14:51.649 --> 00:14:53.649 We see reporters covering autonomous vehicles 00:14:53.649 --> 00:14:57.870 often revert to this safety argument that is, 00:14:57.870 --> 00:15:00.049 you know, at this point we have, you know, really 00:15:00.049 --> 00:15:03.409 no way of. falling down on one side of the line, 00:15:03.549 --> 00:15:06.429 safety or not safe, particularly because Waymo 00:15:06.429 --> 00:15:08.730 is one of many autonomous vehicle companies. 00:15:08.850 --> 00:15:12.730 And often articles just kind of generalize the 00:15:12.730 --> 00:15:17.700 whole. as safe or not, instead of looking at 00:15:17.700 --> 00:15:20.059 the specific companies operating in their records, 00:15:20.220 --> 00:15:23.100 which at this point, none of them have enough 00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:25.399 data to be statistically significant. So any 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:29.559 claims of safety are objectionable. Right. The 00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:31.980 article is, as Michael was saying, does have 00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:33.500 some good points in there. It talks about how 00:15:33.500 --> 00:15:37.580 when these cars basically crap out the issues 00:15:37.580 --> 00:15:39.480 that in San Francisco they've been having where. 00:15:40.620 --> 00:15:45.000 The city had to call 911. No, sorry. The city's 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:47.559 911 service placed more than 31 calls to Waymo's 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:50.059 first responder hotline and spent more than two 00:15:50.059 --> 00:15:52.919 hours and 36 minutes of call time trying to contact 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:56.460 the company. So the city itself had problems. 00:15:56.539 --> 00:15:58.600 It got to the point where the mayor of San Francisco 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:01.820 had to contact the co -CEO of Waymo who responded 00:16:01.820 --> 00:16:07.559 with a thumbs up emoji. Like the absolute balls 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:10.409 on this person be like, cool, bro. It's all taken 00:16:10.409 --> 00:16:13.029 care of now, whereas that's not the issue. The 00:16:13.029 --> 00:16:15.769 issue is why are we doing this? From a related 00:16:15.769 --> 00:16:18.690 article in, I believe it's Futurism, they talk 00:16:18.690 --> 00:16:23.009 about a hearing at San Francisco, their city 00:16:23.009 --> 00:16:24.970 council. And I'm going to quote from this article. 00:16:25.090 --> 00:16:30.049 When Supervisor Bilal Mahmoud grilled Waymo representatives 00:16:30.049 --> 00:16:32.649 on what steps the company was taking to ensure 00:16:32.649 --> 00:16:35.960 first responders can help. can be helping people 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:38.240 in the moment of a crisis, Waymo Sam Cooper, 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:40.980 an incident response specialist, had pointed 00:16:40.980 --> 00:16:43.879 to how Waymo had helped train 1 ,000 first responders 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:47.639 in San Francisco with its online program. So 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:51.419 basically saying Waymo's stance is, no, we're 00:16:51.419 --> 00:16:53.379 not going to fix our shit. We're going to train 00:16:53.379 --> 00:16:55.679 you to fix it. And you're not going to get paid 00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:57.419 for that, but we're going to train you for free. 00:16:57.559 --> 00:17:00.720 And when our cars break down and Uber Eats driver's 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:02.399 too busy, we're going to make the cops do it. 00:17:02.809 --> 00:17:05.589 Or we're going to make a fireman do it like the 00:17:05.589 --> 00:17:09.329 the absolute hubris. It's it's it's government 00:17:09.329 --> 00:17:11.990 paid babysitters. You know, it's just another 00:17:11.990 --> 00:17:15.650 level of subsidies. Right. Yeah. So this is this 00:17:15.650 --> 00:17:18.769 is just pure nightmare. But there's another just 00:17:18.769 --> 00:17:21.650 one more quote from this article here from Futurism. 00:17:21.869 --> 00:17:25.369 This is Mary Ellen Carroll, executive director 00:17:25.369 --> 00:17:27.839 of the Department of Emergency Management. warned 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:29.759 that the frequency that the police and firefighters 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.420 have to respond to immobilized Waymos was becoming 00:17:32.420 --> 00:17:35.400 a public safety issue. Quoting, what has started 00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:37.140 to happen is that our public safety officers 00:17:37.140 --> 00:17:39.119 and responders are having to be the ones to physically 00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:42.119 move the cars. In a sense, they're becoming a 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:43.960 default roadside assistance for these vehicles, 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:46.500 which we do not think is tenable. So these are 00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:48.640 two great articles to look at. We've got links 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:52.460 to them in the details. Obviously, any time they 00:17:52.460 --> 00:17:55.980 reference could be safer, maybe it's safer. Take 00:17:55.980 --> 00:17:58.460 a gallon of salt, then get yourself to the ER 00:17:58.460 --> 00:18:01.940 because you might have a stroke. Wow. Yeah, I 00:18:01.940 --> 00:18:04.259 know. It's too much. Look, it's a little gallon 00:18:04.259 --> 00:18:07.480 of salt. Look, we start 15 minutes early. I'm 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:10.519 all messed up. Wrong side of the bed. Look, the 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:13.940 clocks changed. Weird things have happened to 00:18:13.940 --> 00:18:17.359 myself. But okay, so my gaslight was the Fast 00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:20.480 Company itself. Fred's was Waymo because he's 00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:23.700 trying to keep it original. And then Michael. 00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:26.720 Time for your Gaslight. All right, I'm going 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:31.859 to my latest Gaslight involving the media and 00:18:31.859 --> 00:18:34.980 descriptions of, you know, a provision from the 00:18:34.980 --> 00:18:38.099 2021 Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act that 00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:42.180 required alcohol detection technology in vehicles. 00:18:42.339 --> 00:18:45.220 Now, the title of the article pretty much gives 00:18:45.220 --> 00:18:48.680 away that it's nonsense. It's federal surveillance 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:54.130 tech becomes mandatory in new cars by 2027. Okay, 00:18:54.170 --> 00:18:58.430 let's unpackage that. So the provision is Section 00:18:58.430 --> 00:19:05.130 24220 of the IJA. That's been essentially sitting 00:19:05.130 --> 00:19:08.930 there now for five years, mandating NHTSA to 00:19:08.930 --> 00:19:11.309 do something in this area. And all NHTSA has 00:19:11.309 --> 00:19:13.390 done is issue an advanced notice of proposed 00:19:13.390 --> 00:19:16.470 rulemaking that asked more questions than had 00:19:16.470 --> 00:19:21.779 very few answers. But the statute itself does 00:19:21.779 --> 00:19:24.980 not mandate any sort of surveillance tech, much 00:19:24.980 --> 00:19:27.339 less federal surveillance tech. This article 00:19:27.339 --> 00:19:30.099 gets it completely wrong there. What the statute 00:19:30.099 --> 00:19:34.759 mandates is a system, whatever that system might 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:40.940 be, that can detect the presence of impaired 00:19:40.940 --> 00:19:44.200 driving. Now, whether that is a driver monitoring 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:49.819 system, whether that is a an air sampling technology 00:19:49.819 --> 00:19:53.380 that can detect the driver's alcohol through 00:19:53.380 --> 00:19:55.339 their breath, whether it's one that can detect 00:19:55.339 --> 00:20:01.299 the driver's alcohol levels through a scan of 00:20:01.299 --> 00:20:05.420 their finger is one thing. But that's something 00:20:05.420 --> 00:20:07.579 that NHTSA and the government haven't worked 00:20:07.579 --> 00:20:10.200 out yet. It's certainly not going to be worked 00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:15.420 out by... 2027. So the entire title of the article 00:20:15.420 --> 00:20:18.099 is wrong. It's not becoming mandatory in new 00:20:18.099 --> 00:20:21.279 cars by 2027. In fact, if they wrote the rule 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:24.940 today, it wouldn't be mandatory until 2030 at 00:20:24.940 --> 00:20:27.319 a minimum, I believe. And so, you know, we're 00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:29.660 talking about something that at the rate Nitz 00:20:29.660 --> 00:20:31.299 is moving in with this current administration 00:20:31.299 --> 00:20:35.160 is probably not going to be making it into cars 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:41.339 until the mid 2030s, I hope. And so this is the 00:20:41.339 --> 00:20:46.339 kind of journalism that is – this is the true 00:20:46.339 --> 00:20:48.579 lazy journalism, as we were talking about earlier. 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:52.240 This takes talking points from – people, whether 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:55.839 they're politicians or these people who think 00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:57.539 they're freedom fighters out there preventing 00:20:57.539 --> 00:21:01.440 federal surveillance from occurring. But ultimately 00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:03.839 here, it's not the federal government who's, 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:06.759 even if these systems, even if they decide to 00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:10.059 put this technology into cars as some type of 00:21:10.059 --> 00:21:14.380 camera and a system that physically or actively 00:21:14.380 --> 00:21:18.430 monitors what you're doing in your car. There 00:21:18.430 --> 00:21:21.250 are no requirements that that information be 00:21:21.250 --> 00:21:23.910 retained, right? That information can be immediately 00:21:23.910 --> 00:21:26.930 deleted by the vehicle in its decision -making 00:21:26.930 --> 00:21:28.930 process as to whether you're drinking that day, 00:21:29.029 --> 00:21:31.069 never used again. It's ultimately going to be 00:21:31.069 --> 00:21:34.210 up to the manufacturers. to determine whether 00:21:34.210 --> 00:21:37.029 or not this information is available to them 00:21:37.029 --> 00:21:40.269 via data or to you and whether they can sell 00:21:40.269 --> 00:21:42.710 it or not. So it's not federal surveillance that 00:21:42.710 --> 00:21:44.690 you hear that you should be scared of. It's corporate 00:21:44.690 --> 00:21:48.869 surveillance. So if for all of these problems 00:21:48.869 --> 00:21:51.930 and in the interest of time, because I could 00:21:51.930 --> 00:21:54.190 probably spend a lot longer on this one, I'm 00:21:54.190 --> 00:21:56.819 going to give this. Let's see who wrote the start. 00:21:56.859 --> 00:22:00.339 What's DeCosta? I believe he is the founder of 00:22:00.339 --> 00:22:03.660 Gadget Review. He's going to get my gaslight 00:22:03.660 --> 00:22:07.960 of the week for a really, really bad, ignorant 00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:12.099 article. Yeah, I had to look into who this person 00:22:12.099 --> 00:22:13.640 was. And I believe you're right, Michael, it's 00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:17.119 the person behind Gadget Review. Looking at their 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:21.420 LinkedIn profile, they're brand friendly is essentially 00:22:21.420 --> 00:22:26.289 their tagline. and this might be too harsh and 00:22:26.289 --> 00:22:29.609 i i'm sure their mother loves them but no this 00:22:29.609 --> 00:22:32.529 is somebody who couldn't tech bro enough to become 00:22:32.529 --> 00:22:36.210 a tech bro and it's still trying to become a 00:22:36.210 --> 00:22:38.230 tech still trying to become a tech instead they're 00:22:38.230 --> 00:22:41.150 like those fish around a shark those yeah yeah 00:22:41.150 --> 00:22:45.450 remora remora uh remora not if does a remora 00:22:45.450 --> 00:22:47.529 have a remora because that's kind of what this 00:22:47.529 --> 00:22:50.079 guy is as you look at it this is Utter nonsense. 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:53.700 Michael, hands down, you are the winner of this 00:22:53.700 --> 00:22:56.680 week's Gaslight, specifically because I had somebody 00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:59.319 I know came to me saying this was a real thing 00:22:59.319 --> 00:23:02.819 and it's being in use right now. And I took out 00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:04.599 our tinfoil and wrapped it around their head. 00:23:04.940 --> 00:23:08.119 Look, I would say, you know. Yes, be concerned 00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:11.500 that manufacturers are using internal and external 00:23:11.500 --> 00:23:15.420 vehicle cameras and all sorts of sensors on your 00:23:15.420 --> 00:23:18.539 car and saving that data and selling it to insurance 00:23:18.539 --> 00:23:22.079 companies, selling it to... whoever they want 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:25.000 to that's willing to pay for it, yes, that's 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:27.720 a concern. But in the context, blaming this law 00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:30.460 and in the context of this law, which solely 00:23:30.460 --> 00:23:34.180 goes after, is solely interested in passive alcohol 00:23:34.180 --> 00:23:37.180 detection to prevent drunk driving, right? Has 00:23:37.180 --> 00:23:40.759 no interest whatsoever in retaining that data, 00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:43.259 storing it and selling it. These are all things 00:23:43.259 --> 00:23:45.579 that the manufacturers are doing on the side 00:23:45.579 --> 00:23:49.819 of safety over here. So, you know. postulating 00:23:49.819 --> 00:23:53.039 that some kind of federal surveillance is nonsense. 00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:57.200 And this is again, this is a proposed rulemaking 00:23:57.200 --> 00:23:59.920 for comment. This is not the law. It's you know, 00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:03.400 it's mandated that Netsub take a look at this 00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:07.000 and and hopefully make a rulemaking on it in 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:10.240 the future and get this into all vehicles. But. 00:24:10.829 --> 00:24:12.650 You know, it was mandated that NHTSA reach a 00:24:12.650 --> 00:24:14.849 determination by a certain point and then mandate 00:24:14.849 --> 00:24:19.250 this technology by 2027. But as usual, as we 00:24:19.250 --> 00:24:22.250 discussed, you know, ad nauseum on this podcast, 00:24:22.430 --> 00:24:27.259 the agency is. unforgivably, in some circumstances, 00:24:27.259 --> 00:24:30.259 and incredibly slow when getting rulemakings 00:24:30.259 --> 00:24:33.640 out there. And the DADS technology and the other 00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:37.259 technologies that are out there, the DADS technology 00:24:37.259 --> 00:24:39.819 is probably ready to start being integrated into 00:24:39.819 --> 00:24:42.500 vehicles right now, but they're having trouble 00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:44.980 finding manufacturers, shocker, that are willing 00:24:44.980 --> 00:24:48.920 to support that process. And then there are other 00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:51.220 technologies coming down the road that can do 00:24:51.220 --> 00:24:53.960 a similar job using different types of detection 00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:58.319 formats. But at this point, it's just way, way 00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:01.220 behind. And thinking that NHTSA is going to get 00:25:01.220 --> 00:25:05.559 this into cars by next year is beyond absurd. 00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:15.759 Continue the funding of this show and all the 00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:17.259 wonderful work that the Center for Auto Safety 00:25:17.259 --> 00:25:19.680 does for 50 years. We've been over 50 years. 00:25:19.700 --> 00:25:27.599 How many years in the 53? 54, 55, 56. The longer 00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:30.099 this podcast goes, the more years get added on 00:25:30.099 --> 00:25:33.700 autosafety .org. Click on donate. Someone who's 00:25:33.700 --> 00:25:36.940 not going to click on donate is Jeff Bezos. And 00:25:36.940 --> 00:25:40.920 let's talk about Zoox. He wouldn't be allowed 00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:43.819 to click on donate. As an individual, he could, 00:25:43.900 --> 00:25:46.779 not as a corporation. It's hard to disconnect 00:25:46.779 --> 00:25:49.759 from that, right? We're not taking money from 00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:51.799 Elon or Bezos or any of those guys. But from 00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:55.460 his ex -wife. Absolutely. Yes, there you go. 00:25:55.579 --> 00:25:58.940 Please, Mackenzie, donate. It will piss off your 00:25:58.940 --> 00:26:02.759 ex -husband. That's the new fundraising model. 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:06.640 Find these billionaires with their spouses. Piss 00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:09.789 off your ex -spouse. Come on. Elon's exes, that's 00:26:09.789 --> 00:26:15.250 enough to fund us for centuries. Okay, back to 00:26:15.250 --> 00:26:18.670 Zoox. So Zoox is the little toaster Pixar -looking 00:26:18.670 --> 00:26:20.390 car that doesn't have brakes, steering wheels, 00:26:20.630 --> 00:26:24.690 mirrors, all this stuff. That's doing test runs 00:26:24.690 --> 00:26:28.130 right now in Las Vegas and I believe somewhere 00:26:28.130 --> 00:26:33.109 out in the Bay Area in California. Anyway, they 00:26:33.109 --> 00:26:34.829 have... Yeah, they're in San Francisco. Yeah, 00:26:34.829 --> 00:26:38.079 so they have... Well, now NHTSA is saying, hey, 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:40.099 can we get some public comment on what people 00:26:40.099 --> 00:26:42.599 think of this? And so we think, hey, this is 00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:47.220 great. No, no, no. Well, what's happened? I mean, 00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:49.660 they submitted a petition. I believe it was in 00:26:49.660 --> 00:26:53.460 fall of last year. NHTSA announced that they 00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:56.319 had received it. You know, and, you know, you 00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:59.319 can look on the government regulation site and 00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:02.519 see. Some of the petition, a lot of it's redacted, 00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:06.259 particularly in the very interesting parts. But 00:27:06.259 --> 00:27:08.460 essentially what Zoox is doing with that petition, 00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:14.880 beyond the usual gaslighting of everyone reading 00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:17.079 it with the idea that autonomous cars are going 00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:22.299 to save us in the next few months, is petitioning 00:27:22.299 --> 00:27:26.059 for an exemption from some very specific federal 00:27:26.059 --> 00:27:30.589 motor vehicle safety standards that apply to 00:27:30.589 --> 00:27:33.990 things used by the human driver, mirrors, windshield 00:27:33.990 --> 00:27:38.450 wipers. There's even a part in there where they're 00:27:38.450 --> 00:27:42.089 petitioning around sun visors because they don't 00:27:42.089 --> 00:27:43.970 have sun visors in the vehicle. And yet their 00:27:43.970 --> 00:27:46.470 belief is that the motor vehicle safety standards 00:27:46.470 --> 00:27:52.230 require one in some respects. And so we still 00:27:52.230 --> 00:27:54.410 haven't been able to see or review all of their 00:27:54.410 --> 00:27:56.509 submissions to NHTSA. because I think some of 00:27:56.509 --> 00:27:58.390 that stuff is still popping up in the docket. 00:27:59.230 --> 00:28:01.329 But we'll talk about it more in the future. But 00:28:01.329 --> 00:28:03.789 for now, you know, I think it's just important 00:28:03.789 --> 00:28:05.910 that, you know, our readers be alerted to the 00:28:05.910 --> 00:28:07.930 fact that, you know, there's an opportunity to 00:28:07.930 --> 00:28:10.089 comment on this. And I think it's going to be 00:28:10.089 --> 00:28:13.460 coming up in about a month. um to voice you know 00:28:13.460 --> 00:28:15.859 your opinion on you know what do you think about 00:28:15.859 --> 00:28:18.960 the safety of these vehicles and you know whether 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:21.940 they've met the burden of showing that in the 00:28:21.940 --> 00:28:23.819 absence of meeting these federal motor vehicle 00:28:23.819 --> 00:28:26.079 safety standards they're going to be as safe 00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:29.039 as the vehicles operating on our road now um 00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:33.119 i'd say it's it's kind of it's hard to determine 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:36.420 from their submission because so much is redacted 00:28:36.420 --> 00:28:39.500 and it's it's almost an exercise of futility 00:28:39.500 --> 00:28:44.230 trying to comment on a document when some of 00:28:44.230 --> 00:28:46.269 the most pertinent parts of that document aren't 00:28:46.269 --> 00:28:50.849 available for view by the public. So that's a 00:28:50.849 --> 00:28:53.710 challenge we're all facing, you know, as we, 00:28:53.829 --> 00:28:56.309 you know, monitor the auto industry generally 00:28:56.309 --> 00:29:00.670 is simply a... sharp lack of information. You 00:29:00.670 --> 00:29:02.869 know, when companies want to keep something confidential, 00:29:03.130 --> 00:29:06.190 they do. And more and more companies are taking 00:29:06.190 --> 00:29:08.309 advantage of that when it comes to, you know, 00:29:08.349 --> 00:29:11.829 NHTSA safety inquiries and other things. They're 00:29:11.829 --> 00:29:15.009 simply not turning over data like they used to 00:29:15.009 --> 00:29:18.309 or not turning over a lot of things and making 00:29:18.309 --> 00:29:20.750 a lot of redactions to information that might 00:29:20.750 --> 00:29:25.869 previously have been available. So it's a tough 00:29:25.869 --> 00:29:29.269 job, I guess I'm saying. So I want to let's pretend 00:29:29.269 --> 00:29:34.049 this is as safe a vehicle as a Waymo. And let's 00:29:34.049 --> 00:29:35.990 so as we know, Waymos, as we've talked about, 00:29:36.069 --> 00:29:37.890 they will stall in the middle of the road and 00:29:37.890 --> 00:29:41.009 just block traffic and whatnot. But an emergency 00:29:41.009 --> 00:29:45.250 first responder, a fancy valet could get into 00:29:45.250 --> 00:29:46.970 the vehicle and move them because they're steering 00:29:46.970 --> 00:29:49.130 wheels and pedals and whatnot. Yeah. Like we 00:29:49.130 --> 00:29:51.910 saw in Austin a couple. Right. Like we see you 00:29:51.910 --> 00:29:55.970 almost weekly with a Waymo. So. How does do we 00:29:55.970 --> 00:29:57.910 have any idea how that problem is solved with 00:29:57.910 --> 00:29:59.869 the Zoox? Is it just small enough people push 00:29:59.869 --> 00:30:03.250 it? I think they're assuming that it is going 00:30:03.250 --> 00:30:06.529 to be operated remotely in those situations. 00:30:06.609 --> 00:30:09.450 And maybe I don't know if they have someone that 00:30:09.450 --> 00:30:11.410 can come out and plug a joystick into the car 00:30:11.410 --> 00:30:13.750 to move it or if they're just going to have to 00:30:13.750 --> 00:30:17.289 rely on, you know. tow operators and others to 00:30:17.289 --> 00:30:19.829 get these things out of the road when they inevitably 00:30:19.829 --> 00:30:24.690 stop and delay traffic. So and perhaps, you know, 00:30:24.690 --> 00:30:28.509 and I was glancing through the submission this 00:30:28.509 --> 00:30:30.950 morning, Ben, they do have a fairly large section 00:30:30.950 --> 00:30:33.269 on remote operations. However, that's one of 00:30:33.269 --> 00:30:35.369 the most significantly redacted sections of the 00:30:35.369 --> 00:30:38.009 whole thing. So I'm not sure, you know, that 00:30:38.009 --> 00:30:41.150 while that may be answered in there, I don't 00:30:41.150 --> 00:30:43.390 think that we're able to see that information. 00:30:43.750 --> 00:30:45.799 Well, once public. Comments open. We'll let you 00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:49.759 know. People need to recognize that these Zoox 00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:53.880 vehicles allow people to sit frontwards or backwards 00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:58.299 or sideways because all those positions are available. 00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:01.920 None of them have ever been crash tested. So 00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:05.039 there's absolutely no data on whether or not 00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:08.680 this vehicle hitting another vehicle or stationary 00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:13.440 object or this vehicle being hit by something 00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:17.119 else. will protect the people inside who are 00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:20.819 only using restraint systems that were designed 00:31:20.819 --> 00:31:24.740 for people facing forward in the vehicle. Yeah, 00:31:24.819 --> 00:31:26.460 and that's a concern. And there's some weird, 00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:29.819 like they developed this new airbag type system 00:31:29.819 --> 00:31:32.299 for the side -seated passengers that supposedly 00:31:32.299 --> 00:31:36.160 is going to protect against this. But it's, you 00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:38.319 know, it's impossible to say. It's not something 00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:40.380 the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards have. 00:31:40.809 --> 00:31:43.430 even wrap their heads, remotely wrap their heads 00:31:43.430 --> 00:31:46.009 or its head around or whatever the federal motor 00:31:46.009 --> 00:31:48.049 vehicle safety standards collective head is. 00:31:48.369 --> 00:31:52.569 But also, you know, it's very novel seating system. 00:31:52.650 --> 00:31:54.609 And, you know, a lot of companies, I think in 00:31:54.609 --> 00:31:56.569 the bus industry, have struggled with the problem 00:31:56.569 --> 00:31:58.730 of side seating and protection in the past. So, 00:31:58.730 --> 00:32:01.250 you know, it really raises the question of, you 00:32:01.250 --> 00:32:03.569 know, beyond these human operating controls, 00:32:03.930 --> 00:32:06.410 this is a vehicle that doesn't meet federal motor 00:32:06.410 --> 00:32:09.829 vehicle safety standards and has a novel crash 00:32:09.829 --> 00:32:14.769 protection system, and how do you make a safety 00:32:14.769 --> 00:32:17.869 assessment in that type of situation? I don't 00:32:17.869 --> 00:32:22.130 know that you can. No data. Yeah. Hey, no data 00:32:22.130 --> 00:32:24.349 is the way to be because then we don't have to 00:32:24.349 --> 00:32:27.509 prove nothing, right? Something. Hey, Fred, how 00:32:27.509 --> 00:32:28.930 are you feeling in TOW -ish? Because we've talked 00:32:28.930 --> 00:32:31.670 a lot about vehicles having to be moved by municipal 00:32:31.670 --> 00:32:36.789 workers. So the TOW this week is about consumer 00:32:36.789 --> 00:32:41.599 subsidies. Of private company finances that are 00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:43.880 unknown to the consumers for the most part and 00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:47.759 what to do about it. So this is a little bit 00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:50.599 broader range than normally. So nuclear power 00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:54.579 industry, inflated rates for unprofitable nuclear 00:32:54.579 --> 00:32:57.920 facilities, unknown costs for high level radioactive 00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:01.440 waste disposal, unreasonable limits on utility 00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:05.400 nuclear liability, streamlined approval of lower 00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:08.980 power nuclear stations. a la Bill Gates, data 00:33:08.980 --> 00:33:11.960 center power, and limitations on the right to 00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:15.539 sue. Those are all problems that are associated 00:33:15.539 --> 00:33:18.880 with unknown subsidies by all of us consumers. 00:33:19.180 --> 00:33:21.579 So basically, if one of these plants blows up, 00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:23.519 you are screwed because you're not going to be 00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:27.519 able to get money for your now contaminated house 00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.839 and property from anybody. Congress, in its wisdom, 00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:33.920 has said that that's okay, guys. You can go ahead 00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:37.200 and blow up your reactors. No problem. So the 00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:41.859 remedy for that is there should be no approval 00:33:41.859 --> 00:33:45.240 for non -economic nuclear stations, particularly 00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:49.720 these stations that the data industry now wants 00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:53.920 to spot all around the country to run their data 00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:57.440 centers. Every one of them is indemnified against 00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:02.319 their true liability. So there should be no liability 00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:05.869 waiver or limitations. for these stations and 00:34:05.869 --> 00:34:08.710 commercial operators should bear the full cost 00:34:08.710 --> 00:34:11.710 of the waste disposal that they're generating. 00:34:12.369 --> 00:34:16.090 All of that right now relies upon public subsidy. 00:34:17.309 --> 00:34:23.969 Then we move into oil. Oil, the unknown or unacknowledged 00:34:23.969 --> 00:34:27.409 subsidies from you, the consumer, are special 00:34:27.409 --> 00:34:31.250 tax benefits, the generous bankruptcy rules that 00:34:31.250 --> 00:34:34.050 inhibit remediation. Basically, people can just 00:34:34.050 --> 00:34:38.389 walk away from their spent wells and holes in 00:34:38.389 --> 00:34:41.070 the ground, whatever they've got. They also use 00:34:41.070 --> 00:34:44.210 eminent domain for pipeline construction. Basically, 00:34:44.329 --> 00:34:48.309 the government steps in and says, the need for 00:34:48.309 --> 00:34:50.309 the pipeline is more important than your need 00:34:50.309 --> 00:34:54.530 for your house and property. So it doesn't seem 00:34:54.530 --> 00:34:58.230 fair to me. And the companies also enjoy insulation 00:34:58.230 --> 00:35:01.449 from environmental liability, in part through 00:35:01.449 --> 00:35:06.519 this. ability to just walk away from the wells 00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:10.440 due to the bankruptcy laws. So to remedy that, 00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:12.719 there should be the removal of special oil business 00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:15.639 tax credits and deductions, and there should 00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:17.639 be assignment of pollution remediation costs 00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:21.420 to the industry, not for the public at large 00:35:21.420 --> 00:35:26.719 to pick up the check for remediating these old 00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:28.719 wells and all the other crap they leave lying 00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:32.079 around. But our focus is on cars, of course. 00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:36.519 So let's talk about AVs. So how do we, the public, 00:35:36.579 --> 00:35:40.000 subsidize AVs? Well, we give them free risk and 00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:42.059 penalty -free use of public roads and rights 00:35:42.059 --> 00:35:45.300 -of -way. We've paid for those public roads. 00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:48.260 Why should we give them to the industry for free? 00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:50.559 Because they're not going to send their profits 00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:55.159 back to us. The AVs, basically, they confiscate 00:35:55.159 --> 00:35:57.940 the right to sue as the price of using their 00:35:57.940 --> 00:36:01.599 services. So that's another subsidy from the 00:36:01.599 --> 00:36:04.559 public. If you have to sue, you're just out of 00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:08.320 luck. You go to forced arbitration. They enjoy 00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:11.480 the free use of public safety officers and regulator 00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:15.500 staff to support their operations, right? Police 00:36:15.500 --> 00:36:19.539 have to come and move the vehicles. They don't 00:36:19.539 --> 00:36:21.760 say that they're going to take care of that themselves. 00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:23.719 They just say, we're going to train the police 00:36:23.719 --> 00:36:26.639 in how to do it. Somebody's going to pay for 00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:31.030 those police. They enjoy consequence -free involvement 00:36:31.030 --> 00:36:35.030 in injury and death collisions because there's 00:36:35.030 --> 00:36:38.289 basically no mechanism to hold them accountable. 00:36:39.610 --> 00:36:42.369 They are destroying public investment in urban 00:36:42.369 --> 00:36:45.469 transportation assets. That's their whole purpose, 00:36:45.670 --> 00:36:49.150 to take advantage of people's frustrations with 00:36:49.150 --> 00:36:52.110 having to take a bus, to instead fill the streets 00:36:52.110 --> 00:36:57.429 with AVs. reduce the number of people using public 00:36:57.429 --> 00:37:01.030 transportation, which has the effect of destroying 00:37:01.030 --> 00:37:03.969 the public investment, making it too expensive, 00:37:04.010 --> 00:37:08.090 and trying to start a death spiral for the public 00:37:08.090 --> 00:37:10.429 transportation industry, the same way they did 00:37:10.429 --> 00:37:14.010 this with public transportation back in the 50s, 00:37:14.010 --> 00:37:16.989 killing off all the bus companies, particularly 00:37:16.989 --> 00:37:21.150 in Los Angeles. And, of course, they enjoy insulation 00:37:21.150 --> 00:37:24.929 from liability via compulsory arbitration. When 00:37:24.929 --> 00:37:27.269 you click that box that says you accept the terms 00:37:27.269 --> 00:37:31.929 of use, you are giving them a great license to 00:37:31.929 --> 00:37:35.389 do damage to you without the possibility of being 00:37:35.389 --> 00:37:39.730 sued. That's another subsidy by the public that 00:37:39.730 --> 00:37:42.269 you probably don't think about when you're signing 00:37:42.269 --> 00:37:45.849 up for this AV service. So to fix the problem, 00:37:46.230 --> 00:37:49.230 there should be prohibition of compulsory arbitration. 00:37:50.110 --> 00:37:52.969 There should be reasonable fees for safety officer 00:37:52.969 --> 00:37:56.469 time. in lieu of tickets for legal violations, 00:37:56.889 --> 00:37:58.769 right? There's no mechanism to give a ticket 00:37:58.769 --> 00:38:02.849 now. So I would say that the police or that the 00:38:02.849 --> 00:38:07.150 state or the local municipality should charge 00:38:07.150 --> 00:38:10.630 them $1 ,000 per instance as a service fee when 00:38:10.630 --> 00:38:14.210 they have to spend their time and assets enforcing 00:38:14.210 --> 00:38:18.030 the law, regardless of whether or not, you know, 00:38:18.050 --> 00:38:21.750 there's a legal problem with their, the AV's 00:38:21.750 --> 00:38:24.309 violation of the law. There should be a service 00:38:24.309 --> 00:38:28.309 fee for the police to try to manage this machinery. 00:38:28.710 --> 00:38:31.969 I think $1 ,000 per instance is probably a reasonable 00:38:31.969 --> 00:38:35.389 number. There should be reasonable fees for public 00:38:35.389 --> 00:38:38.769 official participation in resolving operational 00:38:38.769 --> 00:38:43.210 defects or traffic interruption. And I think, 00:38:43.230 --> 00:38:45.829 you know, you just have to personally get involved 00:38:45.829 --> 00:38:48.389 in fixing these things. So the fire department 00:38:48.389 --> 00:38:50.670 has to get involved in fixing these things or 00:38:50.670 --> 00:38:53.849 anybody else who works for the public. There 00:38:53.849 --> 00:38:56.269 are costs associated with it. So I think there 00:38:56.269 --> 00:38:58.909 should be a minimum $10 ,000 per instance service 00:38:58.909 --> 00:39:03.030 fee whenever a human being who's employed by 00:39:03.030 --> 00:39:09.570 the municipality or is otherwise an emergency 00:39:09.570 --> 00:39:12.969 responder has to interrupt their work in order 00:39:12.969 --> 00:39:17.090 to service the corporate assets. And finally, 00:39:17.269 --> 00:39:19.550 I think there should be confiscation of vehicles 00:39:19.550 --> 00:39:22.570 that are involved in injury or death to the public. 00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:24.820 or for impeding public safety officer activity 00:39:24.820 --> 00:39:27.900 or response while using civil forfeiture laws. 00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:32.260 These are well -established in, I guess, every 00:39:32.260 --> 00:39:34.579 state, Michael? I don't know. But civil forfeiture 00:39:34.579 --> 00:39:39.980 law seems to be a vehicle that the cities and 00:39:39.980 --> 00:39:43.679 states can use whenever these vehicles are out 00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:46.739 of control and injuring or killing somebody. 00:39:47.719 --> 00:39:54.250 So those are my suggestions for this week. Take 00:39:54.250 --> 00:39:57.010 them as you will. But I think clearly the AV 00:39:57.010 --> 00:40:00.550 industry is out of control. That we, the public, 00:40:00.590 --> 00:40:03.309 are subsidizing them in many ways. They haven't 00:40:03.309 --> 00:40:07.150 even gone into the upgrades of the electrical 00:40:07.150 --> 00:40:09.230 system that are needed to support these electric 00:40:09.230 --> 00:40:13.269 vehicles. But there are ways of doing this, I 00:40:13.269 --> 00:40:16.550 think, that don't require litigation every time. 00:40:16.630 --> 00:40:18.809 I think we can do it through service fees and 00:40:18.809 --> 00:40:22.449 civil forfeiture laws. in ways that benefit the 00:40:22.449 --> 00:40:29.309 public and somehow equalize the financial impact 00:40:29.309 --> 00:40:33.909 that the AV companies are putting on the public 00:40:33.909 --> 00:40:38.210 by forcing them to pay the fees, service fees 00:40:38.210 --> 00:40:42.610 required to remediate the problems. That's it. 00:40:42.710 --> 00:40:45.860 That's what I got. Those fees and the things 00:40:45.860 --> 00:40:49.039 that states could do are threatened by a lot 00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:50.900 of the preemption language that the AV industry 00:40:50.900 --> 00:40:53.980 is supporting at the federal level. So that's 00:40:53.980 --> 00:40:56.699 one of the reasons why we so vigorously oppose 00:40:56.699 --> 00:40:59.099 that language, because it removes options for 00:40:59.099 --> 00:41:04.440 localities that want to essentially make a fair 00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:07.659 trade on letting this technology come into their 00:41:07.659 --> 00:41:12.099 cities versus subsidizing the industry. Well, 00:41:12.219 --> 00:41:13.940 one of the things you said there, Fred, is part 00:41:13.940 --> 00:41:16.440 of their goal is to get people off of mass transit 00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:22.320 like buses and get everybody into AVs. Well, 00:41:22.519 --> 00:41:25.320 I think researchers at the University of Texas 00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:29.559 Arlington might agree with you. From USA .StreetsBlog 00:41:29.559 --> 00:41:31.980 .org, I'm going to quote. Researchers at the 00:41:31.980 --> 00:41:33.860 University of Texas Arlington found in a new 00:41:33.860 --> 00:41:36.239 meta -analysis of 26 earlier studies that vehicle 00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:38.699 miles traveled would increase. If U .S. cities 00:41:38.699 --> 00:41:41.219 made a major shift away from human -driven automobiles, 00:41:41.260 --> 00:41:43.659 with the papers collectively predicting about 00:41:43.659 --> 00:41:48.760 a 6 % bump in average VMT, which stands for vehicles 00:41:48.760 --> 00:41:52.480 miles traveled. My version was going to be better. 00:41:52.659 --> 00:41:55.260 It was going to be bad. I know it was. I had 00:41:55.260 --> 00:41:57.719 nothing. I preempted you. Yeah, the V just threw 00:41:57.719 --> 00:41:59.639 me off. Anyway, worse, they'd still increase 00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:02.179 more than 5 % if people shifted away from personally 00:42:02.179 --> 00:42:05.480 owned cars towards shared or not autonomous taxis 00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:08.010 instead. That might not seem like a huge increase, 00:42:08.130 --> 00:42:10.349 but even those modest -sounding increases would 00:42:10.349 --> 00:42:13.590 be completely sufficient to break the road by 00:42:13.590 --> 00:42:16.349 jamming up key intersections, study author Stephen 00:42:16.349 --> 00:42:20.489 Mattingly told Box. Completely break the road? 00:42:20.730 --> 00:42:24.429 A 6 % increase? Like, even a 5 % increase? That 00:42:24.429 --> 00:42:30.079 sounds dramatic. I like it. Well, I mean, I think 00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:32.119 it probably takes into account the fact that 00:42:32.119 --> 00:42:34.260 we're bumping up against, you know, our roads 00:42:34.260 --> 00:42:36.780 already being broken by traffic at the moment. 00:42:37.699 --> 00:42:41.539 And a 5 % increase without changes to infrastructure 00:42:41.539 --> 00:42:45.510 could be significant. Um, but this is, you know, 00:42:45.530 --> 00:42:48.090 it's, it's, it, this is something we've continued 00:42:48.090 --> 00:42:49.989 to hear from the AB industry that they're, you 00:42:49.989 --> 00:42:53.010 know, going to make our roads more efficient, 00:42:53.130 --> 00:42:55.010 but they're, you know, not always accounting. 00:42:55.289 --> 00:42:57.650 We don't think accurately for, you know, the 00:42:57.650 --> 00:43:00.250 deadhead miles specifically that these ABs are 00:43:00.250 --> 00:43:02.889 going to be traveling from point to point, um, 00:43:03.110 --> 00:43:05.150 in, in this article. And then I think in this 00:43:05.150 --> 00:43:07.989 study, they call these EVMT. So I guess that's, 00:43:07.989 --> 00:43:11.210 um, electronic or electric vehicle miles. It's 00:43:11.210 --> 00:43:13.159 confusing if you say electric vehicle. because 00:43:13.159 --> 00:43:15.300 it does kind of confuses it with electric vehicles. 00:43:15.380 --> 00:43:21.840 But the EVMT, they're saying could double the 00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:24.599 number of miles that are traveled in cars and 00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:28.880 cities in a day. So that's, you know, we are 00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:31.139 not headed in the right direction here by further 00:43:31.139 --> 00:43:33.639 subsidizing companies that are only going to 00:43:33.639 --> 00:43:36.460 increase the problems on our road and take away, 00:43:36.579 --> 00:43:38.380 and also at the same time, taking away funding, 00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:41.179 as Fred noted, from our public transportation 00:43:41.179 --> 00:43:44.159 agencies. Well, good to know that the two of 00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:47.239 you live in areas heavily covered by mass transit. 00:43:47.900 --> 00:43:52.280 No, I do not. And, you know, even even, you know, 00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:54.300 even in Washington, D .C., I would argue that 00:43:54.300 --> 00:43:59.179 the, you know, the transit there, the metro stops 00:43:59.179 --> 00:44:02.139 in a very few number of locations. It's you know, 00:44:02.139 --> 00:44:05.099 if you compare it to the subway in New York, 00:44:05.219 --> 00:44:08.699 I think it's pretty obvious, you know, what the 00:44:08.699 --> 00:44:11.070 problem is. They're just. You know, even once 00:44:11.070 --> 00:44:13.570 you get to a stop, you have a long way to go. 00:44:13.670 --> 00:44:17.349 And, you know, there are the lines on the metro 00:44:17.349 --> 00:44:20.329 in D .C., you know, completely miss a lot of 00:44:20.329 --> 00:44:24.980 areas. I could go on for a while about it, but 00:44:24.980 --> 00:44:28.619 having lived in an area of D .C. that didn't 00:44:28.619 --> 00:44:33.340 have the greatest access to the metro, it's frustrating 00:44:33.340 --> 00:44:36.340 that in a city of that size that there aren't 00:44:36.340 --> 00:44:40.559 better options for people who want to commute. 00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:43.760 via public transportation in a similar amount 00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:46.239 of time as they could in a car. I mean, that's 00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:48.500 ultimately what it comes down to. You can take 00:44:48.500 --> 00:44:50.840 the bus in a metro and do a combination that's 00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:52.820 going to take you three hours round trip every 00:44:52.820 --> 00:44:55.519 day to get to work versus an hour if you drive 00:44:55.519 --> 00:44:58.239 a car. That's a problem. But my magic autonomous 00:44:58.239 --> 00:45:00.300 vehicle, I can sit in there, it drives itself, 00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:02.519 and I can catch up on all my work -related emails. 00:45:02.659 --> 00:45:04.300 I don't feel safe doing that in public transit. 00:45:04.420 --> 00:45:05.900 What if someone wants to steal my BlackBerry? 00:45:06.340 --> 00:45:10.739 You could do that in an Uber. Okay. So let's 00:45:10.739 --> 00:45:13.619 get into something a little more positive. IIHS 00:45:13.619 --> 00:45:17.400 has a report about intelligent speed assist. 00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:19.960 We've all been fans of intelligent speed assist. 00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:21.699 And I'm going to quote from the executive summary. 00:45:21.780 --> 00:45:26.300 This is about fleet. This is about 18 wheelers, 00:45:26.300 --> 00:45:28.739 essentially, if I'm right. Okay. So quoting, 00:45:28.860 --> 00:45:32.239 largely fleets with active ISA, intelligent speed 00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:35.639 assist, found that ISA can meaningfully reduce 00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:38.909 speeding and associated safety risks. and even 00:45:38.909 --> 00:45:41.650 promote cost savings. The two main motivations 00:45:41.650 --> 00:45:43.690 cited by fleets engage in the study were safety 00:45:43.690 --> 00:45:46.650 for drivers and other road users and financial 00:45:46.650 --> 00:45:49.130 considerations such as reducing speeding violations 00:45:49.130 --> 00:45:51.889 and improving safety scores that can influence 00:45:51.889 --> 00:45:55.090 insurance costs. I love it. Like at that point, 00:45:55.110 --> 00:45:56.809 I don't even have to read anything else because 00:45:56.809 --> 00:45:58.750 this is basically set. I love the fact that these 00:45:58.750 --> 00:46:01.190 fleets are like, yeah, let's put this in there 00:46:01.190 --> 00:46:04.230 so we don't have truckers carrying a massive 00:46:04.230 --> 00:46:07.190 load of string beans to Utah. speeding down the 00:46:07.190 --> 00:46:11.969 highway. Yeah, I mean, it's what we want every 00:46:11.969 --> 00:46:14.050 car to have at some point. You know, the trucks 00:46:14.050 --> 00:46:18.550 often have, you know, the type of active intelligent 00:46:18.550 --> 00:46:21.949 speed assistance that we'd like to see in vehicles. 00:46:22.130 --> 00:46:23.989 You know, there's all sorts of types of what 00:46:23.989 --> 00:46:26.610 they call intelligent speed assistance, but a 00:46:26.610 --> 00:46:30.230 lot of them... are very passive and don't really 00:46:30.230 --> 00:46:34.210 force the speeders to take any modification to 00:46:34.210 --> 00:46:37.110 their behavior, don't have any type of governor 00:46:37.110 --> 00:46:39.429 that would prevent that person from reaching 00:46:39.429 --> 00:46:42.690 dangerous speeds or even semi -dangerous speeds. 00:46:42.989 --> 00:46:46.289 They're basically just essentially warning systems 00:46:46.289 --> 00:46:48.730 that can be turned off at any time versus what 00:46:48.730 --> 00:46:50.809 we're talking about in these fleet systems are 00:46:50.809 --> 00:46:54.889 actual governing of the vehicle's speed, preventing 00:46:54.889 --> 00:46:59.989 them from achieving basically anything over the 00:46:59.989 --> 00:47:02.170 local speed limits or within a certain range 00:47:02.170 --> 00:47:06.070 of the local speed limits and using whether it's 00:47:06.070 --> 00:47:10.289 cameras or some type of geographic information 00:47:10.289 --> 00:47:12.510 or roadside detection, that type of thing to 00:47:12.510 --> 00:47:16.880 determine the speed limits. and it really you 00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:19.460 know i this is what we ultimately want there 00:47:19.460 --> 00:47:23.219 to be in cars to actually prevent speeders from 00:47:23.219 --> 00:47:25.659 doing what they do and endangering everyone else 00:47:25.659 --> 00:47:29.059 on the road so it's interesting you know how 00:47:29.059 --> 00:47:31.079 you know it looks like you know many of these 00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:34.280 companies kind of they had a couple of bumps 00:47:34.280 --> 00:47:36.539 at the start getting this in and getting their 00:47:36.539 --> 00:47:40.139 truck drivers reactions mediated and all of that 00:47:41.150 --> 00:47:44.210 But they ultimately saw that it was going to 00:47:44.210 --> 00:47:48.570 save them money, prevent crashes and and basically 00:47:48.570 --> 00:47:52.269 improve their operations, which is what we would 00:47:52.269 --> 00:47:54.789 hope that that, you know, active ISA will do 00:47:54.789 --> 00:47:58.050 to our big United States fleet as a whole, including 00:47:58.050 --> 00:48:00.889 all of us that are out there driving. Yeah, it 00:48:00.889 --> 00:48:03.909 makes me think of I just heard on one of the 00:48:03.909 --> 00:48:06.260 F1 teams talking about their spit. their pit 00:48:06.260 --> 00:48:09.139 tops. Let's try that again there. Hi, everybody. 00:48:09.239 --> 00:48:11.579 Go to autosafety .org, click donate. And then 00:48:11.579 --> 00:48:14.400 I'll learn how to speak properly about their 00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:18.559 pit stop speed. And they described it as slow 00:48:18.559 --> 00:48:21.820 is smooth. Smooth is fast, which is apparently 00:48:21.820 --> 00:48:24.880 also a Navy SEAL saying. And I get that. Yeah. 00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:27.940 And I see that with with this intelligent speed 00:48:27.940 --> 00:48:30.550 assist because. The main problem everybody's 00:48:30.550 --> 00:48:31.829 experiencing is you've got a whole bunch of people 00:48:31.829 --> 00:48:33.630 speeding, and then they're slamming on the brakes 00:48:33.630 --> 00:48:36.230 and speeding and slowing down, speeding and slowing 00:48:36.230 --> 00:48:39.010 down, and that just causing a larger delay throughout. 00:48:39.329 --> 00:48:41.889 And also accidents, your fuel mileage isn't as 00:48:41.889 --> 00:48:43.750 great as you keep changing your speeds throughout. 00:48:43.909 --> 00:48:47.469 So I love this. That sounds like a shortened 00:48:47.469 --> 00:48:50.349 version of the tortoise and the hare. Yeah. Right? 00:48:50.530 --> 00:48:54.889 But with Navy SEALs. Yeah. Or F1 pit stop teams. 00:48:56.190 --> 00:48:59.329 Much cooler version. Yeah. Not using cute animals. 00:48:59.750 --> 00:49:02.130 Absolutely not. All right. So before we jump 00:49:02.130 --> 00:49:04.630 into recalls, have to do it. I'm sorry. We haven't 00:49:04.630 --> 00:49:06.789 really mentioned them at all this week. Oh, Michael 00:49:06.789 --> 00:49:10.210 is cringing. He is cringing. It is. Who is it, 00:49:10.230 --> 00:49:13.730 Fred? Who is it? It's Tesla, Fred. You're right. 00:49:13.849 --> 00:49:17.409 There you go. So real quick, we have an article. 00:49:17.690 --> 00:49:20.809 This is we're going to link to title Tesla full 00:49:20.809 --> 00:49:22.730 self -driving drives through railroad crossing 00:49:22.730 --> 00:49:26.079 barriers in viral video. That's it. You just 00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:28.599 watch this. It is horrific. Somebody films their 00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:33.079 car going down the road. The railroad crossing 00:49:33.079 --> 00:49:36.420 arms come down. You can see this clearly. There's 00:49:36.420 --> 00:49:39.539 no glare. It's not the middle of the night. It's 00:49:39.539 --> 00:49:42.539 a nice sunny day. They come down and the car 00:49:42.539 --> 00:49:44.380 just runs through the first one and then runs 00:49:44.380 --> 00:49:45.719 through the second one. And the driver's like, 00:49:45.800 --> 00:49:52.449 oh, shit. Pulls over. Tesla. Garbage. Okay. Yeah, 00:49:52.489 --> 00:49:54.530 and that's a known problem. I think, you know, 00:49:54.610 --> 00:49:57.650 Senator Blumenthal and Markey actually wrote 00:49:57.650 --> 00:50:01.389 a letter to NHTSA about this late last year. 00:50:01.670 --> 00:50:06.730 I think it was a Tesla that... basically drove 00:50:06.730 --> 00:50:10.130 up onto the tracks and they had to leave the 00:50:10.130 --> 00:50:13.489 vehicle before the train hit the vehicle. But 00:50:13.489 --> 00:50:16.230 this has been documented. I think NBC documented 00:50:16.230 --> 00:50:19.570 this happening more than 40 times, bad behaviors 00:50:19.570 --> 00:50:22.110 around trains by Tesla's full self -driving. 00:50:22.329 --> 00:50:24.849 So yet another thing that needs to be addressed 00:50:24.849 --> 00:50:27.769 by NHTSA's currently ongoing investigation into 00:50:27.769 --> 00:50:33.059 Tesla, which yet again. Last week, Tesla requested 00:50:33.059 --> 00:50:37.019 an extension on reporting their engineering studies 00:50:37.019 --> 00:50:40.460 and other data to NHTSA because they just can't 00:50:40.460 --> 00:50:42.500 get it together fast enough over there because 00:50:42.500 --> 00:50:45.059 they have so many ongoing safety investigations. 00:50:45.420 --> 00:50:49.539 So something that we're really concerned about, 00:50:49.639 --> 00:50:52.179 not just the railroad crossings, but a lot of 00:50:52.179 --> 00:50:55.719 operations involving. Tesla's full self -driving, 00:50:55.880 --> 00:50:59.039 whether that's in their robo taxis or in the 00:50:59.039 --> 00:51:01.980 human monitored commercial vehicles. I think 00:51:01.980 --> 00:51:04.139 I just figured it out. They're all human monitored. 00:51:04.619 --> 00:51:07.139 I think I figured this out based off of Fred's 00:51:07.139 --> 00:51:10.380 town. The Teslas are designed to go on railroad 00:51:10.380 --> 00:51:13.019 tracks because they think that railroads are 00:51:13.019 --> 00:51:15.780 bad for business. I thought you were going to 00:51:15.780 --> 00:51:17.760 say it because they're safe for motor transportation. 00:51:18.059 --> 00:51:20.800 No, they're trying to block railroads. So stop 00:51:20.800 --> 00:51:22.219 funding railroads because you got to spend all 00:51:22.219 --> 00:51:24.800 this money repairing railroad tracks and railroad 00:51:24.800 --> 00:51:26.639 cars. This is just a waste of taxpayer money. 00:51:26.860 --> 00:51:29.219 Get rid of it all. Isn't that something the auto 00:51:29.219 --> 00:51:31.079 industry did in the past? Well, that's welcome 00:51:31.079 --> 00:51:33.559 to Los Angeles. Yes. Speaking of Los Angeles, 00:51:33.639 --> 00:51:37.019 let's go to recalls. I don't know. First up, 00:51:37.099 --> 00:51:41.500 Ford. Holy cow. 604 ,533 vehicles in the 2020 00:51:41.500 --> 00:51:44.820 -22. Ford Explorer 2020, same year as the Lincoln 00:51:44.820 --> 00:51:48.480 Aviator. Same year as the Ford Escape, the Lincoln 00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:51.980 Corsair. Inoperative front windshield wipers 00:51:51.980 --> 00:51:54.900 may result in reduced visibility or loss of visibility 00:51:54.900 --> 00:51:57.280 in certain conditions, increasing the risk of 00:51:57.280 --> 00:52:02.000 crash. Oh, their wipers don't work? Yep, basically. 00:52:02.340 --> 00:52:06.199 I think it's a, there's some type of misalignment 00:52:06.199 --> 00:52:09.019 in the motor's cover terminal, essentially. There's 00:52:09.019 --> 00:52:13.429 a problem there. This one looks like owners are 00:52:13.429 --> 00:52:16.110 going to get an interim notice in March, but 00:52:16.110 --> 00:52:18.070 I don't think they're going to have a full fix 00:52:18.070 --> 00:52:24.230 available until mid -May. Next up, holy cow, 00:52:24.349 --> 00:52:29.469 Ford, 889 ,950 vehicles. Hey, it looks like the 00:52:29.469 --> 00:52:33.389 same vehicles again. 2022 Ford Escape, the Lincoln 00:52:33.389 --> 00:52:36.190 Corsair, the Lincoln Aviator, the Ford Explorer, 00:52:36.230 --> 00:52:40.250 the 2020 to 2024 Ford Explorer, though. God damn 00:52:40.250 --> 00:52:42.400 it. A rear view camera that does not display 00:52:42.400 --> 00:52:44.400 a correct image while in reverse gear can reduce 00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:46.179 the driver's view as well as behind the vehicle. 00:52:46.719 --> 00:52:50.320 Blah, blah, blah. Rear view cameras. That's that's 00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:52.639 it. This is a mess up with their printed circuit 00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:56.280 board. It looks like apparently it inverts the 00:52:56.280 --> 00:52:58.840 image on the screen. I'm not sure if that's upside 00:52:58.840 --> 00:53:01.739 down or left to right, but either way, it's not 00:53:01.739 --> 00:53:04.900 going to give you good data to operate your vehicle 00:53:04.900 --> 00:53:08.519 with. This is another one that looks like it's 00:53:08.519 --> 00:53:10.039 going to be, this one actually is going to be 00:53:10.039 --> 00:53:13.559 about a little over a month before owners hear 00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:15.260 about it. But it doesn't look like they're going 00:53:15.260 --> 00:53:18.260 to have the remedy available at that point. They 00:53:18.260 --> 00:53:20.199 don't give a date for the final owner notification 00:53:20.199 --> 00:53:22.380 when your remedy is going to be available. So 00:53:22.380 --> 00:53:25.340 until that time, be sure to use your mirrors 00:53:25.340 --> 00:53:28.219 and don't rely on the potentially inverted image 00:53:28.219 --> 00:53:30.719 coming through your touchscreen. Well, since 00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:32.119 you just did a review camera, I want to jump 00:53:32.119 --> 00:53:34.400 into a personal one here. My car has this sour 00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:36.559 milk smell. Is this related to traffic? Transmission 00:53:36.559 --> 00:53:39.159 floor to a coolant fluid. That's what the Internet 00:53:39.159 --> 00:53:42.360 told me. I don't want to speculate on that. There's 00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:44.340 nothing to sky. No one was eating ice cream or 00:53:44.340 --> 00:53:47.000 dropping a milkshake. And, you know, I actually 00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:50.380 dumped a Chick -fil -A peach milkshake all over 00:53:50.380 --> 00:53:52.820 my dog and the front seat a few months ago. And 00:53:52.820 --> 00:53:57.559 luckily, I avoided the sour milk smell. But is 00:53:57.559 --> 00:54:01.909 it you know, I often. But Volkswagens, which 00:54:01.909 --> 00:54:04.710 I use frequently, sometimes they seem to have, 00:54:04.869 --> 00:54:07.590 you know, even going back to the 80s, you know, 00:54:07.610 --> 00:54:12.429 some type of problem with the AC system that 00:54:12.429 --> 00:54:15.070 I don't know if it's fungus or something, but 00:54:15.070 --> 00:54:18.550 they get this funky smell after a while. Maybe 00:54:18.550 --> 00:54:20.250 that's what it is. Well, I don't know. Someone's 00:54:20.250 --> 00:54:22.690 going to check it out tomorrow and charge me 00:54:22.690 --> 00:54:28.010 way too much, I'm sure. All right. Next recall. 00:54:28.889 --> 00:54:35.550 Ford. Goddamn Ford. 849 ,310 vehicles. The 2021 00:54:35.550 --> 00:54:38.389 to 26 Ford Bronco. Does Jim Farley get paid by 00:54:38.389 --> 00:54:41.190 the recall? Is that what it is? These are massive 00:54:41.190 --> 00:54:43.929 recalls, by the way. I mean, these are all very, 00:54:43.949 --> 00:54:46.210 very large recalls that they're coming out with. 00:54:46.250 --> 00:54:49.949 Oh my God. And the 2021 to 2024 Ford Edge. Another 00:54:49.949 --> 00:54:53.909 rear view camera. God, why? A rear view camera 00:54:53.909 --> 00:54:55.489 that does not display an image while in reverse 00:54:55.489 --> 00:54:59.320 gear. Okay, yeah. The accessory. Protocol interface 00:54:59.320 --> 00:55:01.559 modules reaching temperatures of 105 degrees 00:55:01.559 --> 00:55:05.559 Celsius. Holy cow. And initiating a temporary 00:55:05.559 --> 00:55:11.760 thermal shutdown. Wow. That's a spicy meatball 00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:15.360 in that car. That is. That probably shouldn't 00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:17.679 be happening, right? That's a very high temperature, 00:55:17.860 --> 00:55:19.719 especially if you've got electronics involved 00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:24.650 in this issue. Owners, looks like owners are 00:55:24.650 --> 00:55:26.590 going to be hearing about a remedy here in late 00:55:26.590 --> 00:55:29.789 March, early April. So this one looks like a 00:55:29.789 --> 00:55:33.110 remedy is actually coming along. Of course, it's 00:55:33.110 --> 00:55:35.630 not the hardware that's heating to, you know, 00:55:35.690 --> 00:55:38.090 105 Celsius. That's the problem here. They're 00:55:38.090 --> 00:55:40.769 going to do this with software. So we'll see. 00:55:40.829 --> 00:55:42.269 Of course, they're just going to put ice cubes 00:55:42.269 --> 00:55:46.170 in your car. Yeah. So what's the vehicle total 00:55:46.170 --> 00:55:48.469 of Ford so far this year? Because it's just March. 00:55:49.680 --> 00:55:52.619 I think these are their three largest recalls 00:55:52.619 --> 00:55:57.400 so far. They're once again dominating the recall 00:55:57.400 --> 00:56:01.280 charts this year, although I think they are definitely 00:56:01.280 --> 00:56:05.500 behind last year's pace, I think somewhat significantly. 00:56:05.519 --> 00:56:08.219 But they're still on pace to have a number two 00:56:08.219 --> 00:56:12.760 all -time record. But who knows? All right. Last 00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:18.849 recall, Honda. All right, 65 ,135 vehicles, the 00:56:18.849 --> 00:56:25.409 2024 Acura ZDX, the 2024 Honda Prologue. If the 00:56:25.409 --> 00:56:29.030 instrument cluster display goes blank while driving, 00:56:29.110 --> 00:56:31.329 the driver may be unable to view critical information. 00:56:32.690 --> 00:56:35.909 Is this rear view? If the infotainment display 00:56:35.909 --> 00:56:38.889 does not display the rear view camera image when 00:56:38.889 --> 00:56:41.929 the vehicle is shifted, god damn it. That's part 00:56:41.929 --> 00:56:44.070 of it. It's also, you know, it looks like it's 00:56:44.070 --> 00:56:46.510 mainly, you know, like speedometer and warnings. 00:56:46.530 --> 00:56:50.769 Which is worse. They're all bad. Software defects, 00:56:51.010 --> 00:56:53.230 they're claiming. Yeah, particularly bad. So 00:56:53.230 --> 00:56:56.889 I think the owners will have a fix for this fairly 00:56:56.889 --> 00:57:00.150 soon. They're going to, of course, update the 00:57:00.150 --> 00:57:02.809 radio control. This is coming from the radio 00:57:02.809 --> 00:57:06.239 control module, right? Remember how we often 00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:09.539 talk about air gapping and preventing infotainment 00:57:09.539 --> 00:57:12.800 from interacting with safety? Well, even Honda's 00:57:12.800 --> 00:57:16.880 not doing it right. They're going to improvise 00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:20.300 and improve their radio control module software 00:57:20.300 --> 00:57:23.400 to correct the issue. And that recall should 00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:26.159 be available in late April. Oh, boy. If you have 00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:29.760 these vehicles, get your recalls taken care of. 00:57:30.360 --> 00:57:32.760 And with that, that's our show. Thanks so much. 00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:35.480 Autosafety .org. Click on Donate. We'll be back 00:57:35.480 --> 00:57:37.820 next week with maybe some updates about batteries. 00:57:38.420 --> 00:57:42.119 All right. Goodbye. Thank you. Bye -bye. For 00:57:42.119 --> 00:57:45.840 more information, visit www .autosafety .org.