Welcome to Round Trip Death. On this show we have discussions with real people who have had near-death experiences.
This is a safe, non-judgmental, non-denominational space where we all have something we can learn from others.
While every NDE is different, one of the commonalities is that experiencers come back changed and their lives going forward reflect that change.
The question is, what will you and I learn from listening to their stories?
Alright, we're happy to have with us today Anna from Southern California. How are you, Anna?
I'm good. Thank you so much for having me.
You are very welcome. Hey, how is it in Southern California today? I assume sunny and beautiful.
It is currently 74 degrees outside and it is very sunny and lovely today. Yes, it is.
And what do you do there in California?
I teach, I'm a college instructor and I'm a graduate student as well.
What's your life like? Are you busy with kids or working all day?
Both. I have a seven, eight year old, sorry she just turned eight last week, an eight year old who is in second grade and then I have a 26 year old who is out of the house.
Park service now, she works for the forestry service.
And I am, yeah, I'm busy. I have multiple classes I teach across different campuses and then my own school.
So I'm pretty much stuck in front of my desk all day, you know, until I get to go pick up my little one from school and do like homework and things and then back to work.
Oh yeah, I'm pretty busy, but I don't get out much.
So it's teaching online. Yeah. Was that a hard adjustment? No.
My master's degree, my first master's degree is in online education, so it was perfect. That actually, it actually happened at the same time COVID started. So I was starting my program just, I just started my program about one semester prior to us going on lockdown.
So I already had all my classes online for my school, for my degree.
So yeah, no, for me it was quite easy.
So you were one of the few teachers that knew what they were doing. Yeah, I actually trained, yes, and I ended up training the rest of the student body at this school I was working at the time.
I'm not the student body, the staff, you know, the faculty that was very against going online, helped them figure that out as best I could.
All right. Is there anything else you want to tell our listeners so they can get to know you a little bit?
No, I mean, so I just have a really logical, rational, rooted thinking process.
You have a science background. Tell us about that.
Well, like my grandfather on my mom's side was a science teacher and so growing up I was always around that and like going into his lab and stuff.
And then in high school I got really into biology and I decided I was going to be a scientist and that's what I did for 20 years, directly from college through all the way to like the early 2000s.
I was working as a research scientist under different contracts for the Department of Defense DARPA in conjunction with like UCLA Center for Sleep Research or Huntington Medical Research Institute in Pasadena.
So I was doing like neural engineering, neuroscience and neural engineering.
So, you know, that's really grounded, very black and white thinking kind of science.
It's all peer reviewed. Everything's very, very by the book.
So that's how I viewed my world around me, you know, like it was either scientific or it's not. You can measure it or you can't.
Like if you can't measure it, it's not valid.
So because of that prior to your near death experience, is this something you even thought about?
And if so, what did you think about them?
Well, yeah, I did because I had a lot like growing up.
We lived in a house that was pretty creepy and like there was weird stuff that happened.
And but there would always be an adult saying, no, it's just, you know, your magic, your imagination and whatever, even though the adults seem pretty scared.
So growing up, I had all kinds of weird experiences, but it didn't jive with what I learned in science.
So I explained all of that away. Like I would just excuse it away.
Some like made up construct in my head with regards to afterlife stuff, you know, into a very strict religious like upbringing like those Baptist Southern Baptist.
So we were that was shoved down my throat, but I didn't believe it like at all. I thought it was nonsense.
And that got me a lot of trouble with my family, but I didn't get it.
I was like, no, this doesn't make any sense.
So I'm not token. Yes, like I didn't believe it at all.
But then when it came to like kind of more scary, creepy stuff, like it was I would run to science to explain away.
Does that make sense? Yeah, it was like I just would not allow myself to even consider it basically.
And you had mentioned to me earlier that your husband at that time was an atheist.
So did you sort of fall into that category too? No, no.
Like I've always thought that there's something else like out there because and a lot of scientists that I work with also were of this mindset that the more you get into science,
the more you realize that this can't all be by mistake.
Like it's just too perfect.
But what I'm being told, like what I've read, what I've you know, what I'm getting fed from church and stuff was not jiving with me for whatever reason.
And I just didn't like it just didn't sit with me. So I figured there's something I just didn't think that we knew what that was.
Yeah. OK. Well, let's go now a little ways forward to 2016.
What led up to your near death experience?
I wasn't doing so good at this point in my life.
I had come out of like a really long relationship of 11 years and that had ended.
And I was just kind of off the rails a bit, like lost myself a lot actually.
And I wasn't doing the best for me.
And I got married to this guy.
And yeah, that didn't work out.
And like I was sick.
I wasn't feeling so good at all.
I, you know, I didn't think I was pregnant at all because there's evidence that I wasn't pregnant.
I was getting my cycle.
But that started to become a problem.
Like it started becoming an endless problem.
And I was like, what's going on?
So I actually had went to the doctor and they told me that like I had ulcer was one thing.
And then they were like, nothing's wrong.
It's just, you know, it's just irregular or whatever.
Well, the day that this happened, I remember coming out of the bathroom and I said to my daughter,
my little one and my husband's time, like, I think I'm bleeding to death.
Ha ha ha. Like kind of joking.
And then the next thing I remember, I was in the hospital.
Like I woke up in the hospital and I was getting a blood transfusion.
Like machine was putting blood into me, which really, really creeped me out.
And I had no idea what happened.
Like how I, you know, got there.
And then they told me like I bled out like hemorrhage from an ectopic pregnancy that had gone undetected.
OK, so that's a lot going on.
So you technically were pregnant, didn't know it.
Ectopic pregnancies, I know are super dangerous.
OK, what else happened?
Well, they told me that I'm like, what?
I already came to the doctor and asked about that.
And they said no. So I was a little confused.
But it didn't matter because immediately like I knew something was very, very wrong.
When I gained consciousness, I felt this feeling in my body that I have to say was familiar,
even though I had never experienced it.
If that makes sense. It's hard to describe.
Sure. It felt like first of all, I was like, I'm not trying to scare people.
But it was like I knew I was dying. Like I knew it.
There was a sense of panic that kind of came over me where I could feel like science lesson.
We are very fortunate that we don't feel the inner processes of our cell cycle all day long.
Like the fact that all of the metabolic functions and things that are going on within our body,
we don't feel those things happening. This was different.
This is when I was feeling those things happening.
Like that's what I realized later was going on.
I felt like every cell in my body, especially my arms for some reason,
and it felt like they were just going to explode from the inside out.
Like there was this tension that was building and building and building.
And it was getting so like I hate to say that.
I mean, the way that I would explain it, describe it to people is that if you took every drug,
like hallucinogen or something, and at all at the same time, and it all kicked in at once,
and it was like this overwhelming, oh crap, like feeling it was like that times a thousand.
It was so bad. Like it was just utterly like something's wrong.
I'm dying. Like I knew it.
And the minute it got to the point where it was going to be just too much,
I was just out of my body, not there anymore.
Yeah. Okay. So this is when you've woken up in the hospital.
Yeah. Well, I woke up and then I died.
Yeah. That's kind of kind of funny.
It seems kind of backwards. You think the doctors would have fixed everything wrong with you by then.
Okay. So this all of this feeling in your body, is this a lot of pain or just a lot of understanding?
Interesting question. Crap. I actually don't know the answer to that.
Actually, now I think about it. It wasn't pain. It was panic.
Like it was definitely like I'm aware as a human being that this is not normal feeling,
that this is not something I should be feeling right now.
And it feels all encompassing my whole body.
Like I can feel all the functions going on inside of me and that's not normal.
And it was too much. And it got when it got to be that point, it was just I'm gone.
Like I'm out. I was out of my body. I was still alive.
Like so that was the first thing I noticed was, oh, I'm out of my body, but I'm still alive.
I haven't coded yet. You know, I have a crash.
Are you seeing anything or just feeling this?
No, no, no. I saw, yeah, like, you know, I was like literally this last moment where I was like, oh my gosh, I can't take it.
And then it was like nothing. And I'm like, what?
And I looked around and I'm like ascending up to the ceiling in the corner and like,
I definitely can see my body on the table with blood everywhere.
Like, I mean, it was a mess and I can see like everyone working around me.
And I said like the one thought that I had my cognizant, like epiphany thought was that sucks that you died.
But like there was things I was just talking to my friend about this last night because I realized I had never I've never elaborated on that because like I said that out loud.
How loud? OK, I guess it was actually out loud.
But I was thinking other things, too, like what I was thinking at that moment was, wow, I'm pretty young.
I was pretty young. Like that was ridiculous. You know, like what was I doing?
Wow. I could have had some more years that like just these kind of like not nothing attachment.
Why? Like nothing emotional at all. Like nothing like, oh, no.
But just like, wow. Well, I was young. That didn't work out very well.
Kind of just facts. Yeah. Very, very matter of fact. Right. Sort of like, OK, what's next?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretty much. And on that note, that's when I started to hear my leads, you know, going off and starting to alert that something was wrong.
And they were like, oh, like we're losing her or something like that.
And then everyone just rushed around, you know, and I kind of got I got pushed back, pushed back by kind of receded back a little bit more upwards into the corner again.
And I just watched and they're like, you know, doing the paddles on me and CPR and whatever.
And I was just like, whatever, like literally like super blase about it. OK, so fill in a little detail here.
So so your heart actually stopped and you saw them using the paddles on you. Yeah. What else?
And then, you know, they tried. I can't tell you how long they tried for. And this is like we talked, my friend, I talked about last night.
I have no idea how long they actually attempted to resuscitate me because it was I wasn't there the whole time.
So I was there in the room. But I also when I realized that I was dying, like I mean, I knew I was out of my body and there's a problem.
Right. But when I saw that I was dying, the first thing I thought was my kids. Right. So I thought Ashley, my oldest, in the minute, the second, the nanosecond that I said her name in my head or however I said it, I was in her college classroom,
which was like 210 miles away up north Fresno, where she was. And it was the middle of the day, you know, same time, obviously, same time zone.
And she's taking a test. And I could see like the time on the wall, like what she was wearing. And I just saw her and I was like, OK, she's fine.
Now, Lucy's my little one at the time. She's like two. And she's at the hospital in the waiting room waiting. And she's playing with Legos.
I go, I mean, instantly there. The minute I think about her, I'm just there and she's playing with Legos. And I'm like, yeah, she'll be fine.
And then I go, I get called back, like my attention gets called back to the room where my body is.
That's when I see that the doctor and the techs are basically like done. And the doctor made a comment because one guy, he had made a comment like, we're done.
We're not going to keep trying. She's only like 38, whatever, you know, like.
And he's like, yeah, but you see she was like a junkie, like she was within her chart. She was a junkie. You know, it's not accurate.
But he was looking at the fact that in the past I had had a dependency on OxyContin, which had been prescribed to me.
And I got off of it. That was six years earlier than that. Six years prior to that, I had gone through that process of detoxing and stuff and getting off that horrible stuff.
And he said that and I was like, and I now in real life, I would have been really offended by that.
But I wasn't. I was like.
I mean, I kind of remember being like, was that necessary? But I wasn't mad or like really offended. I was just like, OK, nice.
And that's important because like that I asked about that when I came back, you know, like, did you say that?
Because I was, I needed to know like if that was real, like this experience was real.
I just realized, OK, they're just leaving me alone now. Like I saw all the wires on me and stuff and they're just doing stuff in the room, like filling out paperwork.
One of them is getting like leaving for break, you know, whatever. And I think they were talking about, I want to say someone's like, who's going to tell her husband, like whatever, you know, I start looking to the left and now I'm somewhere else.
I'm in this room.
OK, I just want to make sure we're following the whole way along and you're doing a good job. Your body, your lifeless body is on the table in the hospital.
The doctor said, just give up on you.
Right. I mean, they tried for a while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then and you're watching all this from up in the corner. Yeah.
OK, and some of this you verified later with the doctor. He actually said the things that you remember him saying.
And OK, now you're now you're looking off. And what do you see? Right. Well, let me just right before this, let me say like at that moment when they were done, like, like leave me unattended, my body, I realized something and I was like, I can see 360 degrees.
Like what? How's that like possible? And then it dawned on me. Well, first of all, it dawned on me that, A, my personality is still intact because when I said that sucks, the way I said it was snarky as like how I speak normally.
So I was like, oh, I'm still Anna. Right. And then the second thing was that I realized that I had this ability to see in all directions.
But where were my eyes and like, where was my head? I don't have it. So I was confused, but not like I got it. But it was still an adjustment. OK, there's no bones in my head to like block my vision from, you know, I mean, like it was just kind of one of those like, OK, let me get what's going on here.
And then that's when I realized I have no arms and legs either. I'm just this form. And I did have like a shape, I guess, to me, like, but it was really huge, like humongous, like humongous, like the whole room was filled up with me at the top of the ceiling.
What was the shape?
Like a blob. There was like when I say a shape, I mean that there was like an outer perimeter of it, you know, like, because I could be like when I went to the where I'm going now to when I look to the left, I see this room that's not on Earth, I guess. Right. It wouldn't be here.
It would be somewhere else, like in another dimension or something. I don't know. Wherever we go, I could feel I didn't see anybody else, but I could feel other energies all around me just by like extension of how fast I was like on the outer perimeter of me. I could interact with all kinds of different energies.
And they I was familiar with all of them, if that makes sense. Like I absolutely wasn't familiar, but I was, which was really heavy for me because I realized like I know all these people. These are all it's all the same. Like it's all us.
I don't know. Like it was like, oh, okay. I'm here. Me. I'm individual right now, but I'm also part of this. This is all the same, which was a lot for me to process later.
But I go into this room, quote unquote. There's no floor. No sillies. I don't know why I say it's a room. It just seemed like a room to me. I didn't see a tunnel. I didn't see a light coming down trying to get me or anything and no dead relatives or ghosts, anything like that.
I was alone, but I wasn't alone at all. Like I was just, I was waiting, I guess, for something. And then that something showed up and it was a form that came towards me and it was me.
It was another version of me, like an older, not older necessarily, but looked a little different in the face than me a little bit, but it was definitely me.
It was clear that it was me and she came and was like, looked at me and I was like, oh crap. And she's like, nope. That was it. One word telepathically said, nope. And I knew that meant I was going back.
I wish people that were that are listening right now could see your hands because you're expressing so many things with your hands between the air quotes and all these other things.
And then, oh, that's okay. I'm just trying to figure out how to explain some of it to them. But so you feel like you don't have any form, but you see this likeness of you that does.
Yeah.
Coming towards you kind of like meeting yourself. That's unusual. I don't know that I've heard somebody talk about that before. That's cool.
So after this, like I haven't been able to discuss this with people because I previously worked as a teacher, a high school teacher. And if I would have discussed this, I would have been fired. Like somebody's parent would have found out and they would have complained.
You're crazy.
Yeah. And so for years, I didn't speak about it at all. But then when I did finally speak about it, I got asked this question about this whole interaction and it dawned on me. Oh my gosh.
Wow. I've seen her before. Like before. I had encounters with her before. Twice. Once when I was 13 and I had been irresponsible with some friends and taking some hallucinogenic substances and was really, really out of my mind.
And I went into the bathroom at my friend's house and in the mirror was like a 35 year old version of me. And at the time I had black hair and a mohawk.
I could have been an old rebel. And I looked terrible. It was a nightmare. And this woman, me in the mirror was like, Anna, what did you do to your hair? Like just really kind of not mean, but like really, honey, what are you doing?
And I freaked out and I took a washcloth and I threw it at the mirror and I ran out of there. I was like, hell no. Like, I don't know what's going on. Who's this lady in the mirror? But it dawned on me. I was like, oh my gosh, that was the same person. And then also after that, but before the near death, when I had been assaulted, been sexually assaulted, and I was, I dissociated, like I saw her also during that time.
Just being there, like talking to me about like, it's going to be okay, whatever. So I had seen her before, like in my life. So it was like, what the heck? Like what is going on? And she just said, no, nope. And sent me back. And that's when I saw a tunnel. Okay. So I realized I'm going back. I was like, okay, wait, how am I going to fit back in that body?
First, that was the thing that was concerning to me because I was huge, like very large amount of space taking up and this body's tiny. You know, that's funny because I always thought I was like kind of big. For a girl, I'm like 5'3", 110 pounds.
And I, like looking at myself from that perspective, I was like so tiny. I was like, there's no way I'm going to fit in that body. But I went back in through my navel, like through my belly button. Like what? You know, I've never heard of anything like that before. And it was literally physically painful.
Actual, tangibly, I can't even describe how uncomfortable it was going back in. And that's when I saw a tunnel. So going back in through my belly button, I see this tunnel and it hurts like hell. Like it was putting toothpaste back in the tube, right?
My recollection of this event was at that moment, I shot up on the bed upright and gasped for air because I had been dead for 5 minutes, 56 seconds, according to them. So that's almost six minutes, right? And I had no air.
What it felt like was if someone had your head underwater and was holding your head underwater until the very last little millisecond before you were going to like drown, you know, take up that breath of air or water in. And then you breach the surface and that gas that you can imagine you have was like that.
Now, I had leads on me, right? But none of those things started beeping before because they were not these people in the room were not alerted to the fact that this was going to happen. And I scared the crap out of them. Like, was anybody still in the room at this point? Yeah, there was three or four people left.
And the one guy who was left to get lunch, he was back. He dropped all this stuff. He looked like he was going to have a heart attack. And that's the first thing out of my mouth was, did you say that I was just a junkie? And so it was fine that you guys stopped CPR on me, right? You know, and the doctor was like, like he had his mouth was just kind of open. He looked at me like, what? And I asked him again and again and again. And I was trying to convey, I don't care what you said. It doesn't matter. It could have been anything. I'm just asked, is that did you say this? Because I heard
this. And like, I need to know if this was accurate. If I'm like, this chemicals in my brain being released, released or whatever they say happens when you die. He's like, there's no way you could have heard that you're freaking clinically dead. There's no way you can heard that. And I was like, are you saying it's then you said it then you say I'm like, I don't care. Like, it doesn't matter what you said. I just need to know. He's like, Yeah, but I mean, it was just in your chart. He's trying to explain it. I'm like, I don't care. You said that. And he's like, I'm sorry. And you weren't looking for an apology. You were just looking for confirmation that it had happened. Yeah, no, I didn't.
I didn't care. Like I didn't care what he said. It was it could have been anything. It was just like, that's what I heard. I just want to know, did you actually say it? I don't care. It's not about me being mad about what you said, because it's true. What you mean to a degree, it was true. And said, but like, unnecessary. Sure. But like, you know, it was true. And so I just need a validation that that happened. And I was actually hoping that they were going to say no. Okay, before we move on, I've got a couple of questions to ask. And, and then we'll keep going with this. My first one is, so you seeing you, how did you
know this was you? Besides the fact that this person looked like you? Is it possible it could have been a deceased grandmother or somebody? Or did you somehow know it was you besides just the look?
Now, it was me. Like, I don't know how it was. It was not this version of me, right? Like not me in this timeline, whatever you want to call it. But it was like the sum total of all the versions of me. The one thing that I was able to glean from this time up
there, because there was some waiting for me waiting for this version of myself to meet with me, right? And it's you can't tell time. I don't know how to say it. Like there's everything's happening at the same time. There's no linear
situation. Like it's not linear, like it is here where there's like, you know, past, present, future. It's like everything was happening all simultaneously, like how it is in science, when we try to teach science, like cell cycle or something. And we're like this stage this, but
really, it's all happening at the same time. We're just breaking it down so you can learn it. It's like that for us, I guess, here. But in in that face, everything was happening at once. So what I understood was that I'm existing now here, as well as like, however, other many
places at the same exact time. But like, there's a version of me that's all of that, like that's experienced all of the lifetimes. And like, that's why she looked a little different. Her face was a little bit different. There's different, like lines in her face than mine, because we wear our
experiences on our face, right? Like our wrinkles and stuff kind of tell our story. And so I like that's just my understanding of it was that that's me, like the best version of me, like the highest, like most evolved, higher self kind of thing. And that's what it was, you know, and like that message she gave me was like a zip file, right? So the one word was nope. But like, it got embedded in me and there was other files inside of it. So as I came back over the next month, and
years, things have been uploaded, downloaded, like, you know, like opened and like, information just has been unpacked. And it's been been a lot.
Yeah, this is a lot for me to wrap my mind around. I see a lot of commonalities as I talk to people about their experiences. And there's always some new things too. And you meeting this version of yourself is a new one to me. So
yeah, I actually had like, because I haven't heard this or the belly button thing, right at all. But after I talked about it, the first time I did have people reach out to me that were like the same thing happened to me. You know, like, yeah, because I had not, I thought it was completely weird. And like, you know, not and then not the norm.
Usually people see some religious figures of dead relatives or something and I didn't so I wasn't sure what exactly was going on. But I wasn't scared about it. Like I wasn't like, oh, no, I'm in the wrong place. You know, no, like that.
Yeah, that's okay. And just because your experience is a little bit different doesn't mean it's not real. There's not a rule book for this and how this works. Everybody's experience is a little bit different. And this is interesting. And the same with the experience going back into your body. Everybody's is a little bit different. But there is a common one commonality here. I have had quite a few other people tell me that they felt like they were way too big to fit back in that body.
Oh, yeah. Really? Okay. Like how in the world am I going to fit back in there? In fact, if one of the funniest ones, if you listen to Vinnie Tolman, I think he's episode 301. When he went back in his body, and he woke up immediately from a coma. And he just had he felt so locked up that he had to take everything off. He took the robe off, he pulled all the leads out, he took, you know, the IV out, he took the
medicine, he did all this kind of stuff, and just wanted to get out of there because he felt so very confined. And so, you know, you're validating that. And I've heard that from other people, too. And some people talk about coming back into their body, the process of that being painful, like yours. Others not, but the but that they came back into a body that was in a lot of pain because of the trauma that it was going through. You probably had some of both, it sounds like.
I was fine. Like I went home right after like that. Like, let me go. So your pain was just the process of coming back into the body. Right. It was literally being condensed, squeezed into this tunnel, my belly button, like, and that I found out. So now I'm in like consciousness program for my second masters. And like, one of the things I found out is that actually, in some Eastern traditions, they do see the belly button as where the soul enters the body. Right. And I
did not know that. So like, I was that really was like, oh, wow. Because, again, I was like, why my belly button? Like, that's so weird. But I guess I was just going off of I have no idea what I mean. I don't know where I've ever learned anything about it in the first place, you know, other than maybe the Bible, I guess. So I don't know. I can't remember what that says. So like, I didn't know. I just was like, this is odd. But I didn't expect to see religious stuff because I'm not religious. So I, that would have been weird for me. I would have been
scared. Actually, if that were the case, I would have been like, oh, no, I just I would have loved to have seen the looks on the faces of the people in that room, and especially that doctor. There's no doubt he thought I was trying to get him in trouble. Like, he did not for a second have any clue as to what I was trying to do. Right. And they do have to be afraid of lawsuits. I get it. Of course. Yeah. But the one guy, poor guy, the one that asked like, she's only like 30. We're gonna stop that guy. He looked like he just never moved from
this one position of just looking like the ghost. Again, like I had the leads on me still and nothing had warned them of my return, like, you know, coming back. So it was just me there for six minutes and then shooting up and like, awake, like straight up awake, like there was no coming to it was like, like you said, I felt like I needed to like, rip everything off of me like, you know, like, just like what's going on, it was immediately I knew what happened. Like, it's the instant that I was conscious in this body again, I was aware I died. I just went to the other side.
None of this jives with anything I believe. Oh, no, you know, it was traumatizing. I'm not gonna lie. Like, it was really traumatic. I mean, there's a lot of things that come with this. I think people don't talk about when they talk about your death or, you know, people think about your death experiences is like, well, most of the people that have them believe in it. Right. Yeah. So when you don't, it changes your worldview completely. Yeah, you don't believe it can happen and then it happens. How do you deal with it? Let's circle back to that. I want to
hear what happened in the next few minutes in the rest of that day in the hospital. Yeah, so nothing like I literally getting discharged, you know, my husband came in told me I was crazy. Okay, wait, you were discharged that day. Yeah, yep. Sure was like about eight, seven hours later, maybe my husband who's atheist, right? He's like, I told him I was freaking out like I was in tears. I was like, Oh my god, I gotta tell you what happened. And I figured you might be atheist, but like, I'm your wife, I'm telling you that this just happened. And you know, I always
also don't believe it. Like I would never have assumed this was possible. Right. So him telling me flat out that it was just my imagination. And I'm like, well, okay, fine. But how do you explain if it's my imagination that they verified what was said in my presence, like while I was clinically deceased, and he just kept coming up with these things to like invalidate it. And it was really frustrating for me. I got really irritated because it was such a profound experience for me. And it started to become more and more serious for me. Like, as
it set in, like as it kind of, you know, as I was able to kind of like process it more. So was that rough for your marriage? Yeah, I've divorced him right after that. You're so quick to the point. In fact about this.
No, well, it changes things. So there's a lot of things that change. And I'm sure that I'm pretty sure this is a common one is that because that experience happens, you have a different perspective on things after this completely. And, and you didn't ask for it, right? I guess. But so like, the things that were
interesting to me before were no longer interesting to me. The big thing was though, okay, when I went in, I was not doing well. Like I said, I was a mess. And I had acquired a drinking issue, where I was drinking alcohol, like way too much. It was really just bad for me. And I was basically an alcoholic. I got home that day from the hospital, the same day. And I'm like, Oh my god, I need a drink, right? Because Hello, I just died. I go to the fridge and I get a beer and I try to drink it.
And it not happening like it instead of it being liquid, it just turned into this growth warm foam in my mouth that I have a texture issue. So like, I can't have things in my mouth that are gross to me, like I can't do it. And that's what happened. And I saw I was like, Oh, God, so I tried something else. Same thing. Tried something else. Same thing. I literally could not drink alcohol at all. And I gave up that day. I never drank since then. And I had a problem with it, like a big one, like where I was like shaking in the morning if I didn't drink. So this
ended my alcohol addiction over in six minutes, basically. And the doctors were like, I told them about it, like I had checkups after. They're like, I don't know, there's no reason for that. But just take it as a blessing, like take it as a benefit. That happened like they had no explanation for it. But and I still don't need it. I still it's been years and I don't drink. That was great. I was very grateful for that. And then also there was like this drive in me that didn't exist before to get it together, get my crap together.
Go be a teacher out of nowhere. Like what? I would never want to be a teacher before. Be a teacher, be of service to other people. Go back, finish my education. And there's more that I need to know, like right and need to learn. And that literally set the catalyst. And that's where I'm at now. Like I've been teaching for the past seven years. I finished my bachelor's, got my master's on my second master's now on my way to my PhD in psychology and consciousness and transformative studies.
And I'm all about this stuff now. Like that's my whole focus is shifted from being basically kind of a crappy person, selfish and self-centered and stuff to completely about helping other people that have trauma, especially childhood trauma. That like became a huge focus for me because in my early years I experienced a lot of trauma.
And it led me to those choices in life like drugs and alcohol, you know, and like being able to overcome that with whatever happened that way. Like I say like divine intervention somehow. Like I, there's no way I can't not pay that forward again. Like go, you know, make sure that I'm helping other people. So everything about me has changed. Like my mannerisms, my speech, everything, people that knew me from before, like you're not even the same person. I'm like, thank God I'm not because I wasn't too great.
So except for what happened with your husband, did this help your relationship with other people like your kids?
Oh yeah, 100%. My oldest is 26. So her sister and her 19 years apart, me and her 18 years apart. So right, like I had her really young and I wasn't the best mom to her. Like I was really impatient. Like I was super busy because I was trying to prove that I could do this thing with the kid and like, you know, do it on my own.
And I didn't spend the time with her that I should have, you know, like just wasn't the best and most understanding parent. And now that was known to me like very clearly. Like when I came back, I was like, I've got to change these things.
All of this stuff that needed to change in my life was just in there, like in my head. And it was like a to-do list with check marks that I had to just get done. You know, like I don't know where it came from. I guess it's part of that download file that I got.
So now, you know, like with my little one, I have worked from home almost her entire life. I spend all of my extra time with her and my oldest daughter sees that, right? And she didn't get that, but she sees it. And she's like, thank God that like, you know, you're my sister is not having to deal with the stress and the anxiety and stuff like that. She did. So it's unfortunate that I wasn't able to do that for her, but I definitely am for her sister and for her now, if that makes sense. You know?
Yeah, absolutely. Well, good for you for making all those changes. Was there anything else in which this changed your life?
Yeah, I also realized that there's no time for toxic people. Like my family members are pretty toxic. And I was trying so hard to be part of that, you know, like be accepted and stuff for years and years. And after that, I just said, like, I'm not doing this anymore. This is bad for me. Bad for my family. Like, I'm not going to put my kids through the same stuff I did.
And, you know, when they're like, knowingly, like, this is what's going to happen with these people. So I cut them off, not all of them, but a few. And that's been like the best decision for me, unfortunately. That's very sad, but it's true.
Having like a different idea of why people are the way they are. Like some people, like, it's very clear to me now that there's some people that are just on a different path, right? Like, I mean, as in they don't want to know.
They're not going to know, like, you could tell them anything until they're blue in the face. They're not going to change their mindset about anything. And that's okay. So don't waste your time with it, right? Don't argue with people that aren't open to new information.
That's not your job. Literally. Like, it's just not. Like, we have our own path. We need to stay on our path and not worry about other people's path, right? If people need us, they'll come to find us.
And that's like a thing that's been 100% proven to me since this happened. The amount of people that have contacted me that have had childhood trauma that I can absolutely relate to, I can speak to from and about their wounds, like from first person experience, has been unreal.
They just find me and then I can work with them and help them overcome some of their traumas if they've already been dealing with it in therapy and they hit a wall or something. So we do some other work that is kind of an extension of that. It's been amazing.
Like, it's really been, I feel like the most I've ever helped people ever.
So I know this didn't make you a religious person, but did it change your thought about God at all? I mean, knowing that there is something beyond just this life and body?
Oh, yeah. I have always been into the occult, always, since a child. I was like, tarot cards. I started reading tarot cards when I was 12. I grew up in a very religious house. So that was bad. I was going to go to hell. This is bad devil stuff.
And I was scared of that my whole life. Literally, there was this underlying fear that I had my whole life that, oh God, what if they're right? What if they're right? What if? And they're not.
So my personal experience is that when I went there, that is not a thing. What matters is that you're a good person. Are you a jerk to everybody else? Or are you nice? Do you care about other people? Or are you pushing your worldview on other people?
It's about what you do. It's not even about our particular life as much as it is about how our life impacts everyone else around us. If you look at yourself, how many people you impact your whole life, it's a lot. You don't even realize how many.
Was your existence detrimental to the majority of people? Or was it uplifting and helpful and kind? Did you have good intentions or not? I don't think it matters at all if you do tarot cards, if you do any of that stuff.
I think it matters about just, are you a good person? Do you care about people? Are you loving, kind? And are you not out to be a jerk and hurt other people just for your own gain?
Because like I said, when I was touching the other energies, I'm individual, but the minute I mingled with the other people, quote unquote there, it was way clear to me that, no, we're all the same thing.
I don't care what your religion is. I don't care what your race is. I don't care. We're all the same. Like everything just kind of goes back into this hive kind of, I don't know, you know, like this oneness.
Like, so the way that I've described it is that like we're all individual drops of water. And when we are together, we form the sea of consciousness that is God, I guess, whatever, like you want to call it, source God, whatever.
It teaches own, but it's like we're just little fractions of God experiencing emotions and stuff via Anna's life via your life on this plane, because there's not emotions over there. Like I didn't have any emotion, you know, like there was no sadness or whatever.
It was just like facts, you know, so I think that's what for me that makes sense. But I guess I'm not trying to convince anyone because I know people have their religion and that's great. That helps you and all that.
And maybe that's what you'll experience. Maybe it's individual to everybody. I don't know. And I can't tell you if it goes past six minutes, you know, maybe it all ends in exactly at six minutes.
And I was just four seconds shy. I don't know. But I do know that for those five minutes, 56 seconds, I was still me, you know, with my personality, then there was stuff going on.
You seem surprised that you were still you.
Yeah, I don't know what I thought, like what was going to happen.
Why was that a surprise? Do you think?
I don't know. I mean, I think because like I was snarky, you know, and I thought maybe that how you are in this life was just this life, maybe, you know, like maybe it's just like you take on a persona in this life.
But like your soul would be a little more mature.
But I wasn't. I was like kind of being a brat to myself, you know, like a little bit. But that's how I am.
So it was interesting that my personality had persevered through clinical death. I don't know. I thought that was interesting.
The direction that you got from the person yourself, your older, more mature, whatever self.
Have you had any other experiences with her since coming back?
I mean, I guess because since I came back, I've been having a lot of other stuff going on, like where I just, you know, have a lot more connection with things that aren't necessarily here.
I don't know how else to put that. Like, I mean, like, yeah, I get I, you know, I read tarot cards, right?
Like I do. And I used to read them and for a long time, since I was 12, 32 years.
But I would read them like I memorized them, you know, in the books and like what they meant.
But I don't do that anymore. And I read cards and I get stories in my head, like I hear stuff in my head, narratives, and I will tell people and they'll be like, oh my God, how did you know that?
And I'm like, I don't know. Like, I honestly don't know. That's been crazy for me. It's been really weird.
I actually started to be concerned that I had maybe brain damage and perhaps maybe even getting some symptoms of schizophrenia.
So I actually went to USC in LA and I got a psych evaluation done and it's like huge.
But I actually have it and I got it tested. Like here I'm showing you right now.
Like I'll send this to you if you want. I got tested for all of that stuff and you know, not that.
So it was interesting because again, science, right? Like even after this happened, I'm like science.
I'm going to make sure like I'm going to do some valid tests here. And I went for two weeks.
I paid a lot of money for this test and you know, to see if I has anything wrong with me.
And I and so when you go and you put yourself out like this, it's dangerous because they're going to say magical thinking and like all kinds of stuff.
And I already know because I'm a psychology major. So I know this, but I was very honest and I was like, I need to know.
Like this is not about if I'm having delusions. I need to know like, am I having delusions? Like is it like yes or no?
You know, that's all that matters. We don't need to talk about what's in them. I just need to know.
And they're like, no. So for now, that stands for for now. I'm not crazy.
No, I am. I'm open to, you know, like, of course, like if there's another possible diagnosis or something that I'm not aware of,
then as a person with a scientific logical mind, for the most part, I would definitely look into it because I don't want to be a person that's viewing incorrect data.
Like I don't. That's a huge pet peeve of mine. So like and I have to hold myself to the same standards that I'd hold other people to period.
Good. OK, before we wrap up, do you have any last thoughts you want to share?
I'll just say that there's a lot of people in this on this earth that are walking around with a lot of generational unresolved trauma like that's been passed down.
And that's a big thing. I don't know why this came back with me, but it just did.
And it's like we wonder why we are in this time that we're in with all this violence and stuff.
And it's like, well, we keep passing it on. Like we are not solving it.
Sometimes it's not about pushing things under the rug. It's about facing them directly and like admitting them and like taking them on and owning them so that we can integrate them and move past them instead of continually passing them off to our offspring.
So I would just say that if anybody is out there that feels like they have some stuff from childhood that's, you know, it's embarrassing to admit, I guess.
Like for me, it was like, why would this stuff from childhood affect me now? I'm this old. This is stupid.
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. And it's not as hard as you might think to get to resolve it.
So I would just hope that people would have the emotional maturity and foresight to like actually do something about it so that maybe we can have a little bit of a nicer time here for the rest of our existence and our kids and grandkids, etc.
You know, that's all.
All right. On a scale of one to 10, how afraid of death are you?
Zero.
Thanks, Anna. I appreciate people that say what's on their mind.
Me.
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it very much.
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