One of life's greatest questions is what happens to us after we die?
Is death the end or a new beginning?
Welcome to the Round Trip Death Podcast.
In this show, we listen to first-hand accounts of people who have gone beyond the veil and
return to talk about it.
We are happy to have with us today Julie Papiavis.
Good morning or afternoon.
Good afternoon.
Happy to be here.
Thank you.
I mean, people are listening all over the world at different times of day.
So good morning, evening, good night, etc., etc.
Good day.
And you're coming to us from near Chicago in the United States.
If you wouldn't mind, before we jump into your NDE, tell us a little bit about you and
your background.
Well, I grew up in the same area.
I have not moved far, obviously.
It was really a very nice place to grow up in the suburbs of Chicago.
I had a very nice family life.
I have a sister and brother, mom and dad.
And it was just a really, it was a nice place to grow up.
And I had good experiences in school.
And I really loved learning and loved education.
And went on to college and got my degree in accounting and really wanted to pursue that.
And I just got into the corporate world and then also wanted to branch off into more of
like marketing slash sales.
And so I was doing that and really, you know, getting a good career started.
And that's when my injury happened, just at that point.
And so it made a major detour in my life.
Can I also add to that that you're an author and you can give a shameless plug for your
book right now?
Thank you.
Yes, I have a book, Go Back and Be Happy, and that was written about 10 years ago.
And it was just rewritten a couple years ago, about a year and a half ago.
And it's on Amazon.
And it's available on both audio and in print.
And it's a wonderful retelling of my story and having and also a little bit about my
life and about my recovery and just about the things that go along with being injured
this severely and going through this major rehab process and then just rediscovering
yourself after becoming disabled and your life drastically changing after just having
a pretty ordinary life.
A very life, but a horrific accident.
Yes.
Let's go back a little ways and tell us what happened.
Lead up, lead up to the accident.
Well, I actually was working quite a bit and a friend of mine, she said, you know, we're
working so much.
Why don't we take a quick trip to Cancun just to get away for a week and just to really
enjoy.
And so we did and we had a great time and I returned home from the trip on Sunday evening.
And I remember that was Mother's Day and spent the evening with my family celebrating my
mom and Mother's Day.
And the next day I went to work and I don't have a memory of that because after work I
was leaving a shopping mall where I had stopped to get some moisturizer for all the sun that
I had received and in Cancun.
I was leaving the shopping mall and it was making a lefty and turn out of the mall and
a young man who recently got his license was speeding at 50 miles an hour and ran the red
light and hit me right in the driver's door of my sports car.
And it was horrific.
As I said, why don't you give us a very brief summary of injuries?
I know brain stem was the main thing.
Yes, he hit me at 50 miles an hour.
He twisted my head around on the brain stem and lacerated and severed most of it.
But there was an off-duty paramedic at the scene who actually saw and heard the crash
and was getting his vehicle worked on a paramedic wagon from the next town over.
And he got on his radio that he had with him right away and called the fire station that
was just one block down the street.
He was going to respond to the crash and they did.
And was giving them instructions and told them to bring the jaws of life because there
was no other way they were going to get me out of the vehicle because it was so smashed
in.
And so he then got to my vehicle, saw that my head was so far down to my chest that I
had either broken my neck or severed my brain stem or both.
But either way, it wasn't getting any air and he was trained.
And so he broke the back window, got behind me and lifted my head to start an airway.
So I didn't lose oxygen going to my brain.
And then the paramedic wagon got there with the jaws of life two minutes later.
So three minutes, they were full on me because of the quick actions of the off-duty paramedic.
And when they got to me, I already had no blood pressure.
So they did what they call a scoop and run with the jaws of life.
Then took the car seat out, scoop into the ambulance, ran into the hospital.
And on the way in the ambulance on the expressway on the way to Lytle University Hospital, my
body completed the dying process.
And when I got to the hospital, there was a neurosurgeon waiting to do an EEG test on
my brain to determine life or death status.
And it was determined that I did not have enough brain function to keep me alive.
So on most states, I could have been legally declared dead.
But in Illinois, there is a law that your next of kin, your family member, your caregiver
has to be contacted before you can be legally declared dead.
And so they were forced to put me on life support and call my parents in to make the
decision to keep me out or take me out the life support.
And my parents were called into a room with a chaplain and a doctor and a nurse.
And they were told that 96% of people with my injury died within the first 24 hours.
And the 4% of people who live are semi vegetative, being toileted, and bed usually in a nursing
home type setting for a very short period of time.
So that was the prognosis that they were given.
Short period of time, meaning that would be the rest of that person's life.
It would be the rest of that person's life, which would be at most like around a year.
For those of us without a medical background, how badly do you need your brain stem?
I did not even understand that your brain had a stem.
As I said, I was an accountant and marketing person.
But as my neurosurgeon explained to me, that is your candle of life.
That is the thing that when they do like an ultrasound on a woman who's pregnant, the
reason that after six weeks that you have a heartbeat is because you have a brain stem.
That gives you all your vital organs.
And it's your only your invalid to your heartbeat, your blood pressure, all of those things are
determined are able or made possible by your brain stem.
And it's not very large.
And it's on the top of your spinal cord and it connects your spinal cord to your to your
brain.
And my neurosurgeon explained it like it's like the electric company for the rest of
your body to tell it how to live and how to move your brain stem.
You cannot function without a brain stem.
And so that's why the death rate is so high, because you literally cannot live without
a brain.
Right.
So I can't imagine what your parents were going through hearing that kind of news.
And if they got to see you, you probably didn't look so great.
Well, and that is an interesting comment, because that is one thing my parents kept
asking for.
You know, as they were talking about what happened to me, you know, they were asking,
can we see her?
We just want to see her.
We just want to see her daughter.
And so finally, they let them go back.
They went to the back to the trauma unit.
And my mom said, you look so peaceful and you look like you were just sleeping.
I had no other injuries.
So no broken ribs or no anything, just the brain stem.
Just a little more than just.
Yes.
And and so, yeah, my parents were amazed that I just like I was sleeping because they had
just heard how severely injured I was.
And then they walked back there and it looks like I was so peaceful and sleeping.
Right.
Except for I'm sure the machines and things going on.
Right.
OK.
Did anything else?
Is there anything else you can tell us before before we get into the NDE?
And do you know at what part of this process?
Because it was a very long recovery and there was time before you were put on life support.
Do you have any idea when the NDE happened?
Oh, I'm sure it must have been because the paramedics said they never called the hospital
to see how I was doing because they just assumed that I had, you know, passed away and that
there was no hope.
And, you know, I've actually spoken to a lot of medical schools and a lot of different
physicians throughout the country.
And it really comes down to, you know, a matter of how long you're going to work to keep someone
alive, how much effort is going to be put into that, how much money is going to be spent.
Yes, it does come down to that.
And the prognosis for someone like me is terrible.
It's terrible.
There's no functioning life after having the damage of a brain stem.
And so a lot of physicians now have said, you know, we would not make the effort and
to save someone who is, you know, that severely injured.
And there are some states where at the time of my injury that they do not have the same
law as Illinois.
And so I literally could have been, the physicians could have made the decision to not put me
on life support.
And that would have been it.
Right.
You were dead.
Right.
I mean, when you don't even, you know, you can have, I had an erratic pulse that was,
you know, I was in shock and I was training for a biathlon before my injury.
I did one actually 10 years ago too.
And I've always been an athlete.
And so I had a very irregular, but a heartbeat still, because it's a muscle that will function
for a bit of time.
But I did not have brain activity to keep me alive.
And that is the determining factor between life and death.
Okay.
So what happened to Julie?
While Julie's body was so badly injured.
So I found myself in this place and I knew I was there because I was dead and I was happy
to be there and I wanted to stay there.
I felt like I had gone home where I belong.
I just wanted to be there and it was so wonderful.
It was perfect peace.
It was a perfect peace that cannot be described of anything that I had felt before or since
then, or I believe that we are able to feel and living this lifetime on earth.
And there were no floors or ceilings or walls.
It was vast and open and light, but there was a narrow aisle way to my left hand side.
And the brightest light was on the floor coming up the walls of the aisle way.
And that's where I was very drawn to go down that aisle way because that is where I believed
I was going to meet God.
And I had a lot of questions that I wanted to ask him.
Number one, I wanted to ask him, and truly I remember thinking this, I was going to ask
him why he made that aisle way so narrow that when there's a lot of people who die in a
natural disaster or something, how in the world could they fit down that narrow aisle
way?
I was thinking that and I thought I am going to ask him about that when I get down there.
And then the next thing I knew, not like I walked, it's not that kind of, it's nothing
of this earth, but I was suddenly before my two deceased grandmothers and I couldn't take
my, we all had blue eyes and it's not like they spoke.
It was like their thoughts were conveyed to me through their eyes because my mom's mom
did all the talking and my dad's mom, my parents, my mom is 4'10 and my dad was over 6'6.
So that's kind of the, my grandmothers were the same kind of relative to Princeton's eyes.
And so my dad's mom just had was smiling and he had her arm or her hand on my grandmother's
shoulder and my other grandmother did all the talking, which was kind of usual for their
personalities and they were happy to see me and I was very happy to see them and they
appeared to me to be my grandma's, not like before they passed away, but just my grandmother's
and I couldn't take my eyes off my grandmother's eyes.
They were like this endless tunnel of blue light and I felt God's presence right there.
And it's not like she was talking to me.
It's like her thoughts were conveyed to me through her eyes and I said, okay, come on
girls, let's go pointing to the aisle way.
Like it would be so great that we could go together.
And my grandmother said, no, you can't go with us.
You have to go back.
And I suddenly felt, I was not frightened, but I did not want to go back and I was very
stressed.
I didn't want to go back.
And I pointed to my left side and I said, I can't go back because I'm not physically
okay pointing to my left side.
It was paralyzed.
And my grandmother, again, her thoughts were conveyed to me.
I looked at her eyes and she said, your body will heal.
And I felt the warmth and I knew everything then was going to be okay.
And I felt the warmth of the Holy Spirit wrap around me like a blanket.
And I just knew that everything was going to be okay.
I knew what she had said to me was the truth.
And then she said, go back and be happy.
And so that's why we named the book that and that's why my website is that go back and
be happy.com.
That's why everything is go back and be happy because that's what she said to me.
And then the next memory I have was waking up in the rehab hospital six weeks later.
That was my first memory.
And just waking up as if you'd been asleep.
No, I woke up and I was totally paralyzed on my left side.
It's inside and out.
I couldn't see out of my left eye.
I couldn't speak.
I was fed through a G tube.
I was in diapers.
I had no so when you're paralyzed, it's not only that you don't have movement, you don't
have any feeling.
So it was like my left side was completely gone and I was frightened.
I was at first I was very mad that how could this happen?
And then I just got scared that how in the world was I going to have a life in this body
that didn't work?
And I remember asking God that how could you leave me in this body that doesn't work?
What am I supposed to do?
And I just couldn't stop crying.
And that's why they put me on medication because I couldn't I couldn't participate in rehab.
And if I couldn't participate in rehab, I was going to have to go into a nursing home
and I didn't want that.
So I said, Okay, let's get this done and start working on my recovery.
And I had the hope of the Lord's words that my body would heal.
And so I was going to try my best and work my hardest to make that happen.
Yeah.
So let's circle back to the rehab in a few minutes and focus a little more on the NDEs.
Is there anything else that you can remember?
For example, you knew your grandmothers and that they were deceased.
Did they look like they did right before they died?
Did they look younger?
Is that something you saw or remember?
Yes, they appeared to me like my grandmas when they you know, when I was a little girl,
they were older women, but they were not like before they passed away.
They were happy and healthy and smiling and they looked to be like the grandmas I always
knew growing up.
No wonder it felt like home.
Absolutely did.
I mean, I felt it felt like that's where I had come from.
And then I just went back there.
That was just my place to go.
That that's right.
And I still feel like that that after I am done living in this life that that's where
I will go back to.
And I feel like that's where I came from.
And that's where I will go back to.
Did you meet or see any other people beings there?
No, I did not.
Okay, you talked a little bit about feeling God.
Tell me more about that.
Oh, I, I, you know, as much as I'm sure my grandma, no, I shouldn't even joke around
like that.
They say that she was responsible for my brain stem healing, but she wasn't like that kind
of person.
But I know that it wasn't her, she that healed my brain.
So I know that it could only be our Lord and God who was able to do that.
Because after I woke up from the coma, about six months after that, they did an MRI where
they loaded my brain and spinal cord with dye.
And they, you know, put me in the clothes container and so you can hear the apparatus.
And they said, Oh my gosh, her brain stem is normal.
And so to the words of, of God, my brain stone was healed.
And I know that when my grandmother said it to me, I know that it wasn't her because I
could feel God's presence and I couldn't take my eyes off her eyes over these endless tunnels
of blue light and I felt God's presence.
I felt him there and it were just like her thoughts were conveyed to me.
So he appeared to me as my grandmother's and I feel like, you know, that was perfect.
He knew exactly who would comfort me and who I could because I believe that if I had to
see, I know that younger children have seen Jesus and have come back.
I don't know how I would deal with that every day and being, seeing Jesus and coming to
this world and living in this world.
I can't even see or watch movies or like on Good Friday to hear the stories of our Lord's
crucifixion.
It's too hard for me.
It's too painful for me.
And so I can't imagine having seen him and come back and live in this world.
I think it would be even more difficult because I think even having the near-death experience
or in my case, death experience, I think that I had to go for quite a bit of grief counseling
initially because just to accept that and for that to be part of your new normal life,
it's something that you really have to come to terms with and come to grips with and fit
it into your life and what you're going to do with your life going forward.
And my dad said something very good to me.
They kind of put that in perspective.
He said, you know, this recovery is a responsibility.
And I said, I feel that I really do feel that and I understand that.
And that's how I feel about it to this day.
You mentioned the words you felt perfect peace.
Expound on that.
Like I said, it's just nothing I can explain that we feel here.
It's just such a feeling of tranquility and beauty and of just perfection.
There's not a care in the world.
It's just it's it's just love is pure love and warmth and light.
Normally at this point, I have 50 more questions, but I'm still processing for some reason.
So if I come up with more in a while, I'll let you know.
I hear that a lot.
And it's so interesting because every one of these experiences is different.
And I think that's so cool that you saw your grandmothers.
Did you know them well in this life before they passed away?
Yes, yes, yes.
My family is is quite close and extended family as well.
Yes, I always had close relationship with my grandparents and I think that's important
and it's wonderful.
Yeah.
And they looked similar enough that you knew exactly who they were.
They didn't have to introduce themselves.
Oh, no, no, no.
I was so happy to see them and so difficult for my mom that my mom's mom, who did all
the talking, she passed away in March before my injury in May, which was so I feel so badly
for my mom that, you know, it was so close together.
And my parents said that they had prayed to their moms that if I was going to go to heaven,
that they would greet me and they would be there for me.
So because, you know, no, my parents didn't know, you know, what to for me to expect in
heaven.
And they said they didn't want me to be afraid and to have my grandmother's there to welcome
me.
So it was in their prayers, which I thought was interesting.
Also, that is interesting and an interesting way of learning a prayer is answered.
Yes.
All right.
Let's get back to recovery.
The hardest work I've ever done.
I imagine it had to been the hardest work.
Absolutely.
But before we do, why do you think I mean, some people, you know, they die and they die
and they don't come back.
And some people are given a choice of whether they want to come back.
Right.
You were just told you're going back, girl.
I mean, can you speculate?
Why do you think that is?
Well, I've thought about this a lot because, you know, I wrote the book after a lot of
I didn't want to do.
I really want to go back to do the kind of thing I was doing.
And I don't have the energy to do that kind of upper level management work that I was
doing.
And so and because of, you know, different reasons that, you know, through my disability
and their insurance and nobody will really insure me and because they don't favorably
on you.
I wonder why.
Exactly.
And so, you know, I had to go on Social Security Disability and I'm so thankful that our government
has it in place because I had to go on Medicare.
So I had to do that.
And I'm very happy to be able to have the ability to have insurance and to be able to
do that.
And so I had to find another path to, you know, to work and to be able and I thought
when as soon as I woke up from the coma, I knew it sharing this story, God's story was
going to be my quote unquote life's work, you know, work.
It's really my passion.
It's really what I love to do.
And it's really my calling.
I feel like I could do nothing else.
And so that's when they're just it's always been it's always had a life of its own.
There were TV shows calling and people, you know, wanting the book to be done.
And I had people wanting to do a movie.
And so I was out in California and there were producers who wanted to do that.
But I walked away from that because of how things are handled.
And I would it wouldn't be my story anymore.
And I wouldn't be able to tell it the way that I'm telling it now.
And I still believe that if the Lord wants more people to see it, that he will.
And actually, they told me in Hollywood that it would make a lovely documentary and that
the Chicago area was a wonderful place to have that done and that it should be.
There's a lot of details in the story that would make a wonderful documentary so that
I believe is still something that is possible.
And if God wants it done, that he will open those doors and show me the way to get that
done.
And I'm happy to do that.
And there have been people who've approached me.
And you know, I just feel that there hasn't been the right funding in place to be able
to, you know, pay people properly that as they should be paid for their work.
And, you know, being a business person, I understand all that.
So I would be very open to opportunities if people want to do that.
I just believe that this story needs to be told to more and more people.
Or you could just be on Round Trip Death podcast.
It trumps all of those.
However, God believes it's best to be told.
I will do that.
We'll go with that.
How long did it take to rehab?
But I know that's a process that doesn't just end one day.
Right.
Now, I grew up with a pool in my backyard.
So like the first 12 years were intense rehab.
I mean, literally like eight weeks getting my left toe because my left side was paralyzed,
getting me a left toe, but whole foot to be able to point forward so that I didn't keep
tripping on it.
And I mean, ridiculous amounts like eight weeks to work with, you know, certain fingers
to work together and intensive eye rehab for months and months and months and prism lenses.
And now I have special contacts because my left eye is the pupils blown from nerve damage
in my face and I have nerve damage in my ears.
So I actually have vertical all the time when I stand and I've learned to manage that.
And I just keep my body strong through swimming and through lifting light weights to keep
my body strong.
And that's really the kind of rehab that I do now after, you know, because rehab ends
at a time where, but I have to say, I say it ended at time, but when I wasn't able to
use the pool because everything was shut down because of COVID, I right.
The entropy came right back to my left side and I ended up in physical therapy again for
nine months and they, because I couldn't bend over enough to dress myself and I went right
back to what it was.
And so I was back in therapy and they, they're wonderful therapists.
I call them God's little elves in my book and they are, they really help people to be
so functional and they're amazing.
Just amazing.
And so I did that during COVID.
So it's an ongoing process, but you're also well enough.
We're talking right now, you're in your office, you're working.
Yes, yes.
I made a Fur Haven Wealth Management as a company I work for now.
So if I just met you for the first time and you were thinking, Hey, I was sent back here
to live, to deliver a message to somebody.
And I said, Julie, tell me what that message is.
And you've got like 30 seconds ready, go.
Be happy.
And happiness for each person is whatever everybody knows what it is that makes them
happy.
I believe that part of that happiness has to be faith, faith in something, faith in
something bigger than ourselves.
I believe that that's where our happiness comes from because you know, when you think
about it, when you are a small person growing up, a young person growing up, you have instincts,
good instincts.
I believe everyone has good instincts from the minute they are born.
And I believe if you act upon those good instincts, they will bring you true happiness in your
life.
And I believe a lot of it is belief in God and love of family and love of fellow persons.
I just, I believe it's all rooted in love and happiness.
And I don't think that's a silly thing to say.
I think if really that's how you focus your life and begin your life, you know, all the
other things about, you know, planning and doing all of that, I think that's all part
of it logistically.
But I think if you start just by loving yourself and being happy with who you are and happy
and having, like I said, I think faith in something bigger than ourselves, I think that's
a great place to begin and it will bring you a lot in your life.
Would I be afraid of death?
Absolutely not.
You should not be afraid of death, but also you should be conscious of how you live your
life.
We are, we are all raised in, not even raised by people, but just like I said, that just
what we have inside ourselves, the instincts that we have inside ourselves, that little
voice that we all have, we know how to be good people and do the right thing.
All of us do.
And I think if you live with those things, follow that little voice that's inside everybody's
head that I think it does matter what you do in this life and how you treat people and
how you act.
I think it makes a difference in the life that you have after you leave here.
Besides the fact that you've, you're going to be dealing with physical things, I imagine
for the rest of your life and your work has changed and some of those kinds of things,
how has this changed your life?
What would Julie have been like without this experience compared to what you're like now?
Oh, I think I would have been running my own company.
I think that I just, I love business.
I love, I love work and I love it, love it.
And I love also to working out.
I love that too.
And I also love people in general and love my family.
And I just love people in general.
And I speak a lot to schools who the Think First program, which is run by the College
of Neurosurgeons and their minds are so open to hear the message of injury prevention.
They're so open to hear the story about heaven.
And you know what?
The kids ask really great questions because they have a knowledge, they know.
And I think that we out of fear of what people are going to think about us, we don't say
the things that we really want to say.
And I think that is the freedom that I not only have now, but I think I've always had
is I really don't care what people think because I always try to do the best that I can.
I certainly don't ever want to hurt anybody.
But I've always raised with the confidence to believe in myself and do the best that
I can and not worry about what people think.
I really never suffered from peer pressure.
I've always just done the best that I can.
And so I feel like, yes, my life logistically has changed in every way, really.
But I just accept what has happened and accept what my life's work is now.
It would be fun to be in the room when you're talking about this to children.
What can you think of maybe one of the most off the wall crazy questions they've asked
you?
Oh, my gosh.
They've asked me a lot of off the wall crazy questions.
I mean, but you know what?
It's not even so much off the wall crazy.
They asked me such a thoughtful questions.
They'll be like, I am so sorry you get to go through this.
And how were you feeling?
I imagine when you woke up, you were so overwhelmed.
And just how can you get past a feeling of hopelessness?
Because I think a lot of them with a lot of the media and things that they're receiving,
that's how overwhelmed that they feel.
And so that's what they want to talk about a lot of times are the feelings that are involved
and how to get through those.
So we talk about that quite a bit.
And they, they, you know, leaving, they think a lot of times come up to me afterwards, and
they want to do a group hug, and they want to hug.
It's wonderful.
It's really wonderful.
I feel like I give them a hopeful message and, and they are open enough to receive it.
I think I'm going to be out of a job here.
We're gonna have to get a child in this chair, asking the questions, it'd probably go much,
much better than what I do.
No, it would just be just would be an extra added, I think bonus.
Yeah.
Okay.
Any last thoughts?
No, I just I hope that people, I don't mean to sound frivolous when you say, you know,
what would be my takeaway and, you know, put that into like a minute long sentence or sentences.
I don't, I hope that when I say to be happy and to really love yourself and trust yourself
and believe in yourself.
I know that those may sound like, you know, those are canned kind of, you know, items
that people say, but I really think that they have meaning.
And I really think if you think about them, and you really do trust yourself enough to
love yourself enough and believe yourself in yourself enough that you really can have
a different life.
What about the person that right now says, I'm in a bad place, everything is going wrong.
I can't be happy right now, Julie.
Well, you know, and I was gonna actually just talk about that in, in the way that I, I called
the young man who hit me to tell him I forgave him, because I heard how upset he was in court.
And of course, you know, he would be because the judge was, you know, really mad at him.
And, you know, now it's up to 15 years in jail for how badly injured that he made me.
And when the book came out, his mom contacted me through email, and I actually had to meet
him when the movie was going on.
And he just has not gotten it together personally and professionally.
And I said, there is help for you.
You can reach out to a therapist.
You really need to get some help.
But he never forgave himself.
And you know what he said to me?
He said, I feel like I got away with murder.
I made him living with that.
So you know, so when you asked me what I tell people, I tell people that there are places
to go to get good help.
Talk to someone who can help you go to your church, go to a medical professional, find
someone really reach out to someone who can help you.
You don't have to live with that alone.
And these kids with things going on with social media, tell someone, never think that you
are the only person who has to know about it.
There is there's you should have no fear in talking about how you feel and what's happening
and what you think is going on.
Never keep it to yourself.
Always reach out to speak to someone.
That young man that ran into you, did he have a hard time talking to you?
Was it was hard for him to go face to face with you?
Yes, it was very difficult for him.
And what did you say to him?
I forgive you.
So forgive yourself and turn around and look forward and look forward and do something
in your life that you wish to do.
But turn around and don't keep looking back.
And hopefully he's been able to do that.
Julie, thanks a lot for being on the show today.
Oh, thank you so much for asking me and hearing me.
I appreciate it so very much.
If you have had a round trip death experience, we would love to hear about it.
Send an email to eric at roundtripdeath.com.
And lastly, if you found this program uplifting, if it's given you just a little more hope
in the future, share it with a friend, hit that follow button and take a few seconds
to write us a review.
Until next time, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and
the next.