From the time that they pronounced me that was
a good 45 minutes They cut my clothes and then
they paddled my heart my heart stopped and I
could see people screaming and crying But I didn't
realize that was actually my physical body because
I was somewhere else The only thing that I could
feel if you can imagine Absolute love and peace
there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was
greeted by people I'd known in the past I'm back
home again. Incredibly safe and felt at home.
Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death everybody
and a couple of great guests. This is going to
be really fun today. We've got Baba and Makai
coming to us. How are you guys? Doing great.
Thank you for having us. And listeners, you don't
normally get two for the price of one. Since
you're not paying for this, it's an extra good
deal today having two guests on. So Makai is
the, let's see, were you director as well as
being the host of this film we're going to talk
about? I wouldn't take that much credit. I would
say host and writer. I wrote the script and to
help produce parts of it. But I was more of the,
you know, the person guiding the audience through
the storyline. So it's a great new film about
NDEs called Final Hours. It's put out by Epic
Times. We'll have all the info down in the show
notes. But we're going to be talking to Makai
and also to Bubba who's in the doc to hear a
whole bunch about his experience because it's
really an interesting one that most people haven't
heard before. But before we jump into that, let's
do this. And I didn't warn you guys ahead of
time. We want to make sure that our listeners
know you're real people. So you each get one
minute to tell us a little bit about you. And
that can be anything about where you live or
family or work or anything you want, just so
we can get to know you a little bit. So Bubba,
let's start with you. Yeah. So my name is Bubba
Herrick. I live just outside of Tampa, Florida.
I am 26 years old. Born in New Jersey, raised
in Florida, grew up playing baseball my whole
life. In fact, part of my story, my near death
experiences, I went in for a routine elbow surgery
because I got injured as a pitcher. And that's
a little bit about my story. I'm sure we'll get
into it, but I'm a real person. I promise. All
right, Makai. Yeah, I'm Makai and I work as a
journalist, but just more recently I started
to get into video. And like we mentioned, we're
here to talk about Final Hours, a movie that
I just helped produce. And it all started back
when I was very young. I actually had my own
near -death experience. I was living in Mexico
at the time, and I was stung by a venomous scorpion.
And I had a very, I don't want to say allergic,
but very powerful reaction. And I actually left
my body, and I saw myself outside of my own body.
But I didn't know what it meant back then. And
it wasn't until years after, after college, after
grad school. Started writing as a journalist
and I came across the term near -death experience
and then I started reading all these articles
and case studies and then watching videos Like
a video that I came across on YouTube of Baba
sharing his story and then yeah, we decided let's
make a movie Let's go talk to this people get
their stories and also I really wanted to talk
to them in person because you watch all these
things online Maybe people watching this video
now, but when you talk to someone like Baba in
person, they just have like a light about them.
They have just so much to tell. And when they
tell their stories, it's just fascinating. They're
always saying, and then this happened, and then
that happened. And that's why every single NDE,
near -death experience, it's so unique and always
just so thrilling to listen. I like the whole
in -person idea you're talking about. So what
we need is for every listener to send me like
a thousand dollars, and we'll fly everybody in
to my studio here in Utah. And we'll have fun
doing it that way. In the meantime, we have to
make do. But it is good to be able to see you
guys face to face. That's at least something
in that direction. Makai, are there any more
details about your experience that you want to
fill in before we move on? How old did you say
you were? I was about seven or eight years old.
So I was quite young. I was a child. And I didn't
know what was going on, but I did know it wasn't
a dream. because I could very clearly feel myself
and I was very aware and I could see myself on
the bed and I could see all the details of the
room like there was a painting there was a nightstand
and the only thing I remember it wasn't a very
visual NDE but I just remember thinking oh I
don't think that's this is no good maybe I should
go back so I kind of like made this choice to
go back but I didn't know it at the time it wasn't
until much much later that I kind of connected
the dots and I realized wow Well, I'm really
glad I made the choice to come back. And as I've
talked to a lot of experiencers that had their
episode, their experience when they were very
young like that, most of them felt like they
didn't realize this is something unusual. Okay.
Like, doesn't this just happen to everybody?
So as you were seven, and I know it's not easy
to go back to your memories then, but do you
think that was sort of how you processed it?
Like, this was no big deal. It just happens.
I think so. I mean, I would say I was raised
in a very, you know, open -minded family, a lot
of meditation and yoga and stuff like this. So
it wasn't a new kind of concept, the whole idea
of maybe leaving your body. I wasn't too shocked.
It felt very natural. Later on, when I started
to get more into meditation, I realized that
you don't have to have an NDE to have an out
-of -body experience. A lot of people have out
-of -body experiences without having to, you
know, die. But no, for me back then, it felt
very natural. You know, it felt almost like a
dream, but I knew it wasn't a dream. Alright,
let's shift to you bubba. Let's take it from
the beginning. How old were you? I know you hurt
your elbow Playing baseball tell us what was
going on Yeah, so I was 19 at the time. I was
playing baseball for Jacksonville University
It was my freshman year of college and I was
going in for just like a routine elbow surgery
It's a very very common procedure. It's called
Tommy John surgery for those who are interested
in baseball I was expecting it to be pretty successful.
The day before my surgery, I had this pre -operation
meeting with this nurse and she asked me all
these questions to ensure that I was able to
be operated on. And one of the questions was,
are you allergic to anything that might complicate
the surgery? From that point on, I just kind
of knew deep in my gut that there was something
off about this surgery. So day of my surgery
comes and I go in for it. The doctor puts the
anesthesia in my IV. and assures me that when
we get to the operating room, I'm going to be
unconscious. And we had gotten to the operating
room and I was still awake, but I was just kind
of like closing my eyes, dozing off, expecting
to wake up with this surgery done. But that's
not what happened. This team of surgeons and
doctors, they got me ready to be operated on.
I got onto the operating table. As soon as they
were about to cut into me, I just started kind
of floating above my body. It was almost as if
I was on like the second story of a house looking
down through a thick glass panel at the first
story of the house as I watched myself die on
the operating table from an allergic reaction
to the to the anesthesia. You know, immediately
without transition, Eric, I was shuttled into
a life review. Like I was just surrounded by
this review of my life. It was like a 360 degree
kind of panoramic movie of my life. It was interesting.
I was able to not just play my own character
in this review of my life, this movie of my life,
but I was also able to experience these memories
that were flashing before my eyes through the
lens of other people as well. The theme of my
life review, Eric, it just wasn't positive. It
was because I saw all the moments of my life
that I wish I had back. And for the sake of time,
I won't get into those details of those stories
right now, but At the end of my life review,
I just didn't grow up with any belief in God
or anything like that. But after my life review
and what I had seen, I just found myself calling
out for God, begging God for a second chance
to do this right based on what I had just seen.
It wasn't until I mouthed the words and completely
embodied surrender, I said, God, I don't know
what's next, but I surrender to it. And I trust
that whatever's going to happen next, I have
no control over. And it wasn't until that, that
I was shuttled into, you know, without transition,
into the most beautiful place I had ever seen
or experienced. As if I was looking at the outside
world from the perspective of the inside of the
purest diamond in the universe. There were these
refracted combinations of light that just formed
this one universal color. Time didn't exist in
this place. I didn't have a body, but I felt
And I couldn't think thoughts, but I just felt
more alive in this place than I had ever felt
in my life. All of a sudden, this strange figure
appears and this figure without transition passes
me a basketball. The figure, it turns out, was
my stepdad who had passed away in 2018, which
was just about a year before my surgery scare.
The basketball game that we created on the other
side was actually a recreation of a real moment
that we shared on earth when I was 12 years old.
And the only difference between the 12 year old
basketball game and this basketball game was
that this was happening in real time. I was 19
years old. This was happening right here, right
now. The game was full of fun, loving, kind of
competitive energy. And then towards the end
of the game, though, Mike, his name was my stepdad,
his energy shifted and he became more fatherly,
if you will. All of our communication and the
basketball game itself was telepathic. We didn't
have bodies. There was no need for words. But
if there were, he would have communicated something
like this. He said, let's cut the crap, Bubba.
I know after your life review how badly you wanted
that second chance to do this right, to right
these wrongs. And he says, I'm here to offer
you that second chance. But if I give you this
second chance, He says, you have an obligation
and a responsibility to serve your great purpose.
And the next time you die, you need to be ready
for it. Reluctantly, I accepted his offer, although
I did not want to leave that place because that
place just felt like my home. He disappeared
as soon as I accepted his offer. And I was back
on that second story of that proverbial house
I watched as the doctors brought me back to life.
Alright, I want to dig deep in a couple of places
here. Let's start with the life review where
you started I love hearing about life reviews.
They are so fascinating to me and there's always
a visual aspect You mentioned I think the term
360 degree view explain that a little bit more
Yeah, what's hard to explain? I didn't say it'd
be easy to explain I was just immersed in this
all -encompassing viewpoint. It's hard to say,
but I couldn't see. It's not like right now we
perceive things in our peripheral and what's
right in front of us, but I just could see in
all directions. I don't know how else to explain
it, Eric. I'm sorry. That's a difficult question.
That's okay. I love to hear about how are you
feeling? It sounded like there was some disappointment
and some things that you had to learn from that
life review. Were you feeling guilt, shame, happiness.
Tell me all the feelings that were going through
you. Yeah. Well, all of those, I mean, you hit
it perfectly. Definitely guilt and shame, I think
were some of the biggest ones. And the reason
for that was because there were just situations
where maybe I should have acted in a different
manner than I did at the time. And in my life
review, that brought up a bunch of guilt and
shame because obviously I didn't I didn't act
in the way that I wished I had. Another emotion
that I felt was anger, a lot of anger towards
myself, almost in the way that's like, how could
you have done that? I had a higher standard for
who I was and my character that I didn't live
up to, and I was angry at myself about that.
And so what did you learn from all that? How
did it change you? Oh, man. It changed me in
just about every way possible. You never made
those mistakes again. You treated everyone perfectly
ever since. No, no. And I won't. I will never
get to that point. But I think the biggest change
after my life review is I now am aware of myself
dying full of that regret. So in every decision,
in every conversation that I have now, I do my
best to remain as intentional and aware of that
as possible and just show up the best that I
can in every, every little moment. I don't know
if you know, but it is unusual for people to
have some of those feelings that you did. A lot
of people in their life review, they realize,
Oh man, I did something wrong. And they're feeling
extreme empathy, you know, from the other person's
point of view, but they're also feeling love
instead of shame. The only thing I can say is
Maybe that was the best way for you to learn.
That's the way Bubba learns is from being kind
of angry with himself and then doing better and
moving on, right? I mean, you don't need to harbor
any of those feelings long term. Yeah. No, I
agree with you. I'm not sure. I'm not sure if
that's the best way that I learned or not, but
I think I experienced exactly what I was supposed
to experience. Absolutely. I love that you said
you felt more alive. Tell me exactly what you
meant by feeling more alive Especially since
you weren't alive right physically anyway, right?
I felt like that place was my true home and The
feeling of aliveness just felt more real there
than it than it did on earth You know, I just
felt like the feeling of aliveness itself was
It was perfect. It's storming pretty hard out
here, by the way. It's If you're picking that
up. I was going to say, if anybody can hear the
background noise, there's real life thunder coming
through. You're down in Florida today. So good
luck. Thanks. All right. A couple more questions.
I find this whole basketball game thing really
cool. And part of why it's so cool is because
fathers and sons, and I don't want to make any
gender stereotypes here, but guys in general
often communicate instead of words. They communicate
through playing games or sports or tackling each
other, whatever, you know, whatever in the world
it happens to be. So I think that's really cool
that you and Mike had this experience and you
didn't need to talk. No, you're exactly right.
The communication was just, it was just known.
It was like, we both just knew everything. Okay.
Last thing. And that is you use the term reluctantly
accepted the offer to come back. So why were
you so reluctant? I mean, you said you wanted
to stay, but why did you feel like you needed
to come back? It's a good question. I still think
about that a lot because that place really and
truly, you know, it did feel like my home, but
I trusted Mike in that moment that he said I
had a great purpose that I needed to serve. I
think reluctantly, I I chose to come back because
it just felt like it was the right decision and
it just, it also felt like I didn't really have
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them that we sent you. I think reluctantly I
chose to come back because it just felt like
it was the right decision and it just it also
felt like I didn't really have much of a choice.
It kind of in in some kind of paradoxical way
it felt like the choice was already made for
me but I didn't want to leave that place because
it you know Mike was there and that place was
much it just felt realer it just felt like like
a truer truer to where I was supposed to be at
the time. All right, Makai, back to you. You've
had a break now. In the doc, it's short enough
that you don't have near enough time like we
do here today to ask every single question. I'm
guessing you asked a whole bunch of questions
that ended up on the cutting room floor. Can
you tell us maybe one or two that got left out
or something you wish you would have asked? Well,
I mean, Something I was really curious about
was this whole idea of the great purpose because
he had his NDE. He came back and he could remember
that he was given this chance to redo his life
in a sense. I asked him a lot about this, like,
so how did you change? Because what's so interesting
is that pretty much everyone that has an NDE,
I think Dr. Jeffrey Long, he did a study and
there's 88 % of people that come back. They have
profound after effects after the NDE. And that
means, you know, increased spirituality or increased
belief in God, religion. What's interesting to
me is that, you know, you would think if someone
goes to the other side, sees this amazing place
like Yubaba or they see God, maybe they come
back and you maybe would assume, oh, maybe they'll
be super happy. But actually, that's not what
happens at all. A lot of people that come back,
they report being very depressed because they
almost have like a very deep cognitive dissociation
or they don't know how to integrate or they feel
like Like you were saying, Baba, reluctantly,
you didn't want to leave, but now you're back
here and I have senses and I'm so limited, I
can only see this. And that's something I really
wanted to get Baba's perspective on. Coming back,
being a young guy, being 19 years old, and now
having to deal with these strong feelings. Back
to you, Baba, I'm really curious again, how did
you feel when you came back and how did you integrate
the experience the years after that? It was a
really tough thing for me, to your point, Makai.
It just that felt like that felt like my home
and then you you come back and you re -enter
your body and you're no longer in this home and
then on the other side the the the egoic voice
in in your head that you know is has this constant
mental chatter all the time and that re -enters
your body and that's that doesn't exist on the
other side and it's like this thing that wasn't
present for this experience is now trying to
make sense. of this experience that it wasn't
even there for. And on top of that, to your point,
Makai, you've got these questions of mortality
for myself that I experienced at such a young
age. Growing up, I didn't think about death at
all, at all. And then the surgeon before my surgery
reassured me, in an hour, you're going to be
headed back home. And then 15 minutes later,
I was dead. And it's like, how do you make sense
of that? that simple fact of mortality being
real and the fact that I had no control over
any of it. And then on the other side of that,
it's like, well, all of that in mind, what am
I supposed to do with this? Do I share this?
Do I keep it inside for the rest of my life?
So I mean, it was very, very, very, very difficult.
But now seven years out from that experience,
I do feel called to share it and kind of Lean
into it and embrace it a little bit more because
although it has been difficult coming back from
it like to your point I do feel profoundly changed
from it It's amazing all the ways that people
change after they come back and I want to interject
something with what you said and that is that
When you feel that all of those wonderful feelings
that you had there Feeling more alive than alive
all of those kinds of things And for a lot of
people, it's feeling this intense love. When
they come back, that stuff's gone all of a sudden.
And that is part of why people get depressed.
It's sort of like if you really love someone
and then something happens to them, they move
away or they pass away or something, you're going
to feel this big loss for a while, right? And
you're going to have to go through stages of
grief. And after an NDE, you have to do some
of that same thing. You have something to grieve
over because you realize how awesome it is there
and you're back here Even though you're only
temporarily back here and you know, you're gonna
be going back there someday That's not an easy
thing to adjust to another thing that I hear
a lot and I'm curious if some of this happened
to you a Lot of people are changed enough that
their priorities in life really change So for
example, a lot of people change careers within
a year after an NDE. Some people, unfortunately,
change partners. Divorce rates are really high.
Any of that kind of stuff happen to you? I know
you were a little young for the divorce rate
thing, but. Yeah. Well, I tried to come back
to play baseball. I eventually did get my surgery
and I tried to return to baseball, but, you know,
I just, I didn't have the same love for it as
I once did because You're totally right. My priorities
changed. I became more interested in helping
people rather than serving myself. I think that
was one of the biggest changes. There was no
need for baseball in my life anymore because
before my NDE, it was driven by a fear. That
was my fuel. After my NDE, I wasn't afraid of
death anymore. I wasn't afraid of hardly anything
in that regard. I wanted to just love and serve
people. Very well said. Way to go. You came back
changed in a very good way. Let's talk about
physically your recovery. So you're just into
this surgery. They're not able to finish the
surgery. Tell me what did they do to revive you?
How long did it take you to get better? How long
were you in the hospital? Yeah. So in terms of
them reviving me, they used adrenaline to revive
me and that seemed to be pretty effective. And
then in terms of my recovery, when I got back
to Tampa, I had to go through all of this allergy
testing to see what it was that caused me to
react in such a way. And we found out that the
ingredient that caused me to react was called
ANSEF. That's short for a really, really long
title that I don't really know how to pronounce.
But yeah, and then I eventually did get a successful
surgery after that. Without the effects you had
the first time. Right, right. Yeah, because you
knew what it was this time. Hey, Mackay, in the
doc, you interviewed some other people, some
of which are very famous in the NDE community.
Do you want to just drop a couple of names for
us and what you learned from them? Yeah, I mean,
the arguably the most famous is Dr. Robin Alexander,
the Harvard trained neurosurgeon. He was a neurosurgeon
for many, many years and he was a self -described
materialist, you know, a very scientific mind.
Everything is a material process. Consciousness
must be a product of the brain, chemicals and
electrical influx, stuff like this. But then
he had a very serious case of bacterial meningitis,
a bacterial infection in the brain. And it really
is wild. When you read the medical records, if
you have any medical training, you just think,
wow, this guy should not be alive. He had a 2
% chance of recovery. And he has this seven -day
coma. And the thing is, his neocortex, the part
of the brain that is the one responsible for
memory, perception, thoughts, language, he was
completely offline. He was completely, you can
say, eaten off by the bacteria. And somehow,
while he was in a coma, he was having a very
lucid experience on the other side, wherever
that was. But what's so interesting about his
NDE is that he couldn't remember who he was.
He just was. And he writes in his book, amazing
details about going to a valley, looking at the
angels and all these things. And then on the
seventh day of his coma, he actually came back.
And once he came back, his life dramatically
changed. He became, I don't want to say a believer
of anything, but he just, his whole concept of
consciousness coming out of the brain completely
broken apart, all those notions dismantled. And
now he's dedicated his whole life to, you know,
telling people about the experience. He also
had very dramatic life changes, like you were
saying, divorce rate is pretty high. He was,
you know, very open to share that it was not
very easy coming back and dealing with the family.
We also had Anita Murjani, who had very serious
cancer. And again, just miraculously, during
her coma, she saw her father, she saw different
beings somewhere. And they told her, you know,
go back and live your life fearlessly. What's
so interesting about her is that she kind of
like realized everything in her life that caused
the disease. In some magical way, she was able
to know what caused it and it was fear for her.
So then she realized if I come back, you know,
I don't want to go back to a dying body. But
because she knew what caused the disease, she
was able to reverse it. And again, it's really
a medical miracle. She came back and the lymphoma
just completely disappeared. So we have Evan
Alexander Anita and also Trisha Barker. She was
an English, she's an English teacher now. And
she was a student about the same age as Baba
when she had her experience. Yeah, leave that
one for the if people want to watch they can
go watch them in detail because they're very
amazing And I think we did a pretty good job
to you know, tell their story. Oh, absolutely
Okay before I let you go our show really is all
about hope It's not about death. It's about hope
and the things that we can learn from these experiences
Can give us hope whether we have lost a loved
one recently Our life is just really tough these
days in this world. I want to hear just a little
bit from each of you about how NDEs can give
us hope. Makai, you go first. Bubba, you can
wrap it up. In a sense, I came into this investigation
biased because I had my own NDE. And I would
say since that moment, I kind of knew death was
not the end. So I've always had like this kind
of like lightheartedness with death. as in not
having too much fear. But when I was reading
all these cases and then talking to people like
Baba, at the end of the interviews, I would always
ask them, are you afraid of death? And it was
just amazing to me how quickly they would react.
But it wasn't like a reaction out of like, oh,
I need to say the right thing. It was just a
very profound confidence of absolutely not like,
why would I be afraid? You know, they're so convinced
in their being that there's something else that
is much greater than what we have here in this
life. that is much more loving, more open, heightened
senses that we are so limited here and we're
fearing something that is so much greater. So
for me, during this investigation for the documentary,
I just realized whatever these people saw on
the other side, we should not fear it. What's
coming is pure love and joy and tranquility.
Wow. I don't know how I'm supposed to follow
that one, Eric. That was really well said. I'll
say from my experience in terms of providing
hope, Based upon what I experienced on the other
side Tim Akai's point there's nothing to be afraid
of and The way that I try to approach it now
on the other side of my experience is with that
in mind You know the fact that there is nothing
to be afraid of if we actually believe that then
We're able to give ourselves permission to just
live freely, you know and express ourselves and
love deeply not be so afraid of whether it be
death or or bills and All the things that we
worry about that are so practical and so meaningful
in our day -to -day lives, they just don't matter
as much as we think they do. All right. Nice
job, guys. Bubba and Makai, appreciate you being
with me today. Thank you, Eric. Yeah. Thanks,
Eric. Thanks again for listening and sharing
this podcast. Don't forget to hit the follow
or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter
at roundtriptest .com. If you want to share your
near -death experience, or if you have questions
or comments about the show, send an email to
eric at roundtripdeath .com. Until then, I wish
you everything good that you're looking for in
this life and the next.