WEBVTT 00:00:03.790 --> 00:00:06.669 From the time that they pronounced me that was 00:00:06.669 --> 00:00:10.250 a good 45 minutes They cut my clothes and then 00:00:10.250 --> 00:00:13.609 they paddled my heart my heart stopped and I 00:00:13.609 --> 00:00:17.129 could see people screaming and crying But I didn't 00:00:17.129 --> 00:00:19.510 realize that was actually my physical body because 00:00:19.510 --> 00:00:22.890 I was somewhere else The only thing that I could 00:00:22.890 --> 00:00:26.809 feel if you can imagine Absolute love and peace 00:00:26.809 --> 00:00:29.829 there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was 00:00:29.829 --> 00:00:33.070 greeted by people I'd known in the past I'm back 00:00:33.070 --> 00:00:36.689 home again. Incredibly safe and felt at home. 00:00:38.929 --> 00:00:42.189 I'd like to welcome to the show today, David 00:00:42.189 --> 00:00:44.530 Cooke. Thank you so much for being here all the 00:00:44.530 --> 00:00:48.149 way from Kentucky, right? Yes, yes. I live in 00:00:48.149 --> 00:00:51.490 Kentucky. It is a beautiful place, although the 00:00:51.490 --> 00:00:54.090 last time I was there was snowing, but I hear 00:00:54.090 --> 00:00:58.679 it's beautiful in the summer. Yeah. It gets to 00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:01.299 be, it's pretty nice here. It gets to be hot 00:01:01.299 --> 00:01:04.159 and humid sometimes, but you'll find that probably 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:07.859 anywhere, anywhere in the Midwest, I guess. Well, 00:01:07.859 --> 00:01:10.079 I know you're a listener of the show and I appreciate 00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:12.719 you reaching out. And I hope I don't surprise 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:15.579 you too badly. I just feel like doing something 00:01:15.579 --> 00:01:19.819 backwards today. And that is before we've learned 00:01:19.819 --> 00:01:22.019 a little bit about you and get into your whole 00:01:22.019 --> 00:01:25.760 experience. I want to ask you one question about 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:30.579 your NDE. Okay. And that is, what does it feel 00:01:30.579 --> 00:01:36.780 like when you leave this body and enter a heavenly 00:01:36.780 --> 00:01:42.760 place? Well, it feels, you know, that's a very 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:47.379 good question, and it feels weightless. It feels 00:01:47.379 --> 00:01:51.280 like, you know, you feel the presence of your 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:54.680 hands, you feel the presence of your body, presence 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:58.129 of your feet. I can feel my feet on my legs right 00:01:58.129 --> 00:02:05.390 now. But when you go into an ulterior place, 00:02:05.810 --> 00:02:09.250 a heavenly place, a place other than your earthly 00:02:09.250 --> 00:02:13.210 bounds, you don't feel the weight of your body. 00:02:14.069 --> 00:02:18.389 It's like you're walking or you're floating. 00:02:19.069 --> 00:02:25.439 You just feel light. You move about. Just moving 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:28.539 you want to go from here to there you go from 00:02:28.539 --> 00:02:33.699 here to there Maybe like no gravity Like no gravity 00:02:33.699 --> 00:02:37.479 exactly. Okay. Well, there's a little tease of 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:40.599 much more to come But before we jump into your 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:42.819 whole story David tell us just a little bit about 00:02:42.819 --> 00:02:45.280 you so our listeners can get to know who David 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:53.379 cook is Okay. Well, I am 58 years old I had a 00:02:53.340 --> 00:02:56.240 Tragic, well, not so tragic, I guess you could 00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:59.659 say, but a life -changing experience back when 00:02:59.659 --> 00:03:04.199 I was 51 years ago, back when I was seven years 00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:09.199 old. I am the youngest of four. My oldest sibling, 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:14.240 my sister, and my oldest brother had a part in 00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:21.120 my story. They were an intricate part in the 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:25.060 bringing about my My hospital stay, I guess you 00:03:25.060 --> 00:03:30.580 could say. I have been a believer in Christ for 00:03:30.580 --> 00:03:33.659 probably since I was five years old. And my parents 00:03:33.659 --> 00:03:37.580 were missionaries to the Native Americans in 00:03:37.580 --> 00:03:41.340 Northwestern New Mexico, the Zuni Indians. And 00:03:41.340 --> 00:03:45.680 that's where my story takes place is in Northwestern 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:52.039 New Mexico. I was the youngest of four. I have 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:55.520 a middle brother also, and he was, he really 00:03:55.520 --> 00:04:01.199 didn't have a part of my story. I am husband 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:05.819 of my wife. I'm a father of two daughters. I 00:04:05.819 --> 00:04:09.900 stepfather of three daughters and a son. I have 00:04:09.900 --> 00:04:13.280 a granddaughter and a step -granddaughter also. 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:17.939 That is awesome. Aren't those daughters and grandkids 00:04:17.939 --> 00:04:22.079 the very best? Yes. And I say that with joy in 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:25.259 my heart and half laughing because I didn't mention 00:04:25.259 --> 00:04:28.040 sons and Will, my son, is doing some editing 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:30.180 on this and hopefully he's getting a little chuckle 00:04:30.180 --> 00:04:33.019 from it right now too because he thinks he's 00:04:33.019 --> 00:04:36.899 the favorite. So anyway, let's move on from all 00:04:36.899 --> 00:04:40.860 that before I dig myself a deeper hole here and 00:04:40.860 --> 00:04:43.920 get myself more in trouble with my family. Let's 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:46.720 go back to when you were seven years old. I know 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:49.240 what happened, but Please tell our listeners 00:04:49.240 --> 00:04:53.939 what led up to your big fall that day. Well, 00:04:54.120 --> 00:05:01.220 OK. I was like I said, I'm the youngest of four. 00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:05.920 And this particular day, in fact, it's right 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:11.600 at 51 years. It was March 19th, 1975. So it was 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:18.540 almost to the day I was home. And my mom was 00:05:18.540 --> 00:05:23.139 at work. My dad was away on a speaking trip to 00:05:23.139 --> 00:05:27.560 raise support for the ministry. And my oldest 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:30.420 brother and a friend of his, my oldest brother's 00:05:30.420 --> 00:05:33.319 name is Greg and a friend of his name is Jamie, 00:05:34.019 --> 00:05:38.199 they were going to explore a canyon around our 00:05:38.199 --> 00:05:44.180 house. And so I followed my oldest brother and 00:05:44.180 --> 00:05:47.339 they came upon this canyon and there was this 00:05:47.339 --> 00:05:49.759 crevice that led down to the bottom of this cliff 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:55.120 and they went down into this crevice and I stayed 00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:59.079 up on top and I was kicking these rusty cans 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:02.199 over the edge of this cliff. This cliff was 75 00:06:02.199 --> 00:06:06.319 feet but down to the bottom and before long I 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:09.180 got closer and closer to the edge of that cliff 00:06:09.180 --> 00:06:14.759 and I fell. I ended up falling head first. head 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:19.639 first on the rock bottom and Jamie and my brother 00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:23.800 Greg heard me fall and they came running out 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:28.279 Jamie screamed and he went and ran to get his 00:06:28.279 --> 00:06:31.459 father as he went and ran into his father his 00:06:31.459 --> 00:06:34.560 father King came down in their car to pick me 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:38.560 up my brother came out and my brother did what 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:41.839 he remembered that our parents taught us to do 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:45.220 he got down on his hands and knees and he began 00:06:45.220 --> 00:06:48.759 to pray. He prayed that God would not let me 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:52.620 die. Jamie's father came and picked me up and 00:06:52.620 --> 00:06:56.379 took me to the hospital there and on the way 00:06:56.379 --> 00:07:00.120 to the hospital he ran across my sister Christy 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:03.899 and he says Christy you need to get in the car. 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:07.680 David has been hurt. We need to go pick him up. 00:07:07.860 --> 00:07:11.970 She jumped in the car with Jamie's father. They 00:07:11.970 --> 00:07:14.509 got down to the bottom of the cliff and they 00:07:14.509 --> 00:07:17.649 walked up a small slope to where I was laying 00:07:17.649 --> 00:07:22.189 at my lifeless body. They picked up my lifeless 00:07:22.189 --> 00:07:26.050 body, laid it in the back of their car, took 00:07:26.050 --> 00:07:30.170 me to the Zuni hospital for whatever repairs, 00:07:30.750 --> 00:07:33.589 whatever the Zuni hospital could do. The Zuni 00:07:33.589 --> 00:07:37.310 hospital did not have the adequate equipment 00:07:37.310 --> 00:07:43.129 to prepare to do any kind of major surgery on 00:07:43.129 --> 00:07:47.769 my head that wasn't needing to be done. So a 00:07:47.769 --> 00:07:51.870 airplane had to be called in to fly me from Zuni 00:07:51.870 --> 00:07:56.569 to Albuquerque, New Mexico. And when I landed 00:07:56.569 --> 00:08:00.149 at Albuquerque, I went in and was checked into 00:08:00.149 --> 00:08:04.069 Loveless Batan Medical Center in Albuquerque. 00:08:04.370 --> 00:08:08.509 When I was checked into the hospital, this is 00:08:08.509 --> 00:08:14.449 where I can first remember an OBE or an NDE, 00:08:14.709 --> 00:08:19.790 however it might be described. But I remember 00:08:19.790 --> 00:08:23.350 being rushed into the hospital screaming my head 00:08:23.350 --> 00:08:26.470 off because I was not only scared to death, but 00:08:26.470 --> 00:08:30.610 I was in pain. Not only that, but I could also 00:08:30.610 --> 00:08:34.850 remember myself seeing the whole thing taking 00:08:34.850 --> 00:08:40.049 place. I was watching it. take place like I was 00:08:40.049 --> 00:08:45.350 overhead watching the nurses running in, rushing 00:08:45.350 --> 00:08:50.129 in. And I remember a female paramedic say, it's 00:08:50.129 --> 00:08:53.350 okay, buddy. You're going to be okay. I was rushed 00:08:53.350 --> 00:08:57.590 into the hospital and I entered the hospital 00:08:57.590 --> 00:09:03.490 and I had eight days in a coma in the hospital. 00:09:04.350 --> 00:09:08.230 My mom and dad showed up at the hospital. My 00:09:08.230 --> 00:09:12.049 dad thought he would never hear me ever again. 00:09:12.610 --> 00:09:17.889 Eight days in the middle of the night, my dad 00:09:17.889 --> 00:09:22.710 heard me pray. And my dad would always kneel 00:09:22.710 --> 00:09:25.870 down and pray with us at night before we would 00:09:25.870 --> 00:09:28.929 go to bed. And I always would pray the same thing, 00:09:28.990 --> 00:09:32.750 Dear Jesus, help us to obey our parents. And 00:09:32.750 --> 00:09:35.990 in the middle of the night, the silence was broken. 00:09:36.970 --> 00:09:41.809 with me praying dear Jesus help us to obey our 00:09:41.809 --> 00:09:46.929 parents and That's the first words that came 00:09:46.929 --> 00:09:49.450 out of my mouth when I came out of that coma 00:09:49.450 --> 00:09:54.909 During that coma I can remember times where I 00:09:54.909 --> 00:09:58.950 would be laying down there in the in bed and 00:09:58.950 --> 00:10:05.769 my Spirit my soul would leave my body and would 00:10:05.769 --> 00:10:09.639 float Above my body and up float and I would 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:12.840 see myself laying in that bed I would not leave 00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:16.159 the room. My soul would not leave the room per 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:21.100 se But I would float back down into my body during 00:10:21.100 --> 00:10:23.860 the time in the hospital though. There were times 00:10:23.860 --> 00:10:30.220 that I can remember my soul leaving my body and 00:10:30.220 --> 00:10:33.899 floating up above the hospital and Just kind 00:10:33.899 --> 00:10:37.360 of floating around above the hospital and then 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:40.679 floating back down into my body. And there was 00:10:40.679 --> 00:10:46.600 one time in surgery where I was going into surgery. 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:51.340 I had cerebral surgeries on my skull. I can remember 00:10:51.340 --> 00:10:55.620 the nurse giving me the shot. I can remember 00:10:55.620 --> 00:11:01.720 crying and saying, ow, ow, and crying. And as 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:04.600 I went into the surgery, the doctor said, okay, 00:11:04.700 --> 00:11:09.070 come on, buddy. lifted me up off off of the the 00:11:09.070 --> 00:11:12.169 crib of sorts and it was like a metal crib and 00:11:12.169 --> 00:11:15.769 put me on the operating table and during the 00:11:15.769 --> 00:11:21.370 surgery I can remember my soul leaving my body 00:11:21.370 --> 00:11:25.929 leaving the hospital not so much floating away 00:11:25.929 --> 00:11:28.549 but it was like just walking from one room into 00:11:28.549 --> 00:11:32.169 another just as simple as walking from one room 00:11:32.169 --> 00:11:36.720 into another and I can remember as it were, being 00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:43.019 in a heavenly realm. And I can remember an angelic 00:11:43.019 --> 00:11:50.039 figure at a gate, at a large gate. And he had, 00:11:50.139 --> 00:11:53.080 as it were, like a clipboard -type thing. As 00:11:53.080 --> 00:11:57.679 I went into that heavenly realm, I said, okay, 00:11:57.879 --> 00:12:01.960 well, we're going to need to go. And somebody 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:06.019 directed me toward that angelic figure. And I 00:12:06.019 --> 00:12:08.600 went toward that angelic figure. I said, well, 00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:13.659 I said, I guess here I am. He said, well, he 00:12:13.659 --> 00:12:17.200 says, you're not supposed to be here yet. You 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:22.720 have more things to do. I said, why can't I go 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:27.679 over there? He says, you have more purpose on 00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:30.919 staying where you're at. And I can remember as 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:36.940 it were, souls crossing the gate. I wanted to 00:12:36.940 --> 00:12:38.940 go where they're at. I said, why can't I go where 00:12:38.940 --> 00:12:43.679 they're going? And the angelic figure said, you 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:48.080 have to stay. I said to the angelic figure, what 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:53.120 are they doing? And the angelic figure kind of 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:57.519 directed his hand behind me. And I turned around 00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:01.940 and I said, can I see? It looked like there was 00:13:01.940 --> 00:13:07.629 clouds as He wiped away the clouds. I could look 00:13:07.629 --> 00:13:13.250 down and I could see the doctors working on me, 00:13:13.570 --> 00:13:19.789 working on my head as I had fallen and was in 00:13:19.789 --> 00:13:23.850 surgery. When I was looking down, I can remember 00:13:23.850 --> 00:13:30.549 the presence of a person beside me. The person 00:13:30.549 --> 00:13:33.950 beside me, I could almost... I have the comfort 00:13:33.950 --> 00:13:37.970 of saying that it probably was Jesus. And I have 00:13:37.970 --> 00:13:42.250 his arm around my shoulder. Say that he was there 00:13:42.250 --> 00:13:46.289 with me. He said, you have to go now. And as 00:13:46.289 --> 00:13:50.730 I went down back into my body, it was just like 00:13:50.730 --> 00:13:55.009 crossing, just like walking back from one room 00:13:55.009 --> 00:14:00.870 into another. And when I entered back into my 00:14:00.870 --> 00:14:06.570 body, I could feel the confines, the weight, 00:14:07.269 --> 00:14:10.370 the confinement, I guess you could say, of my 00:14:10.370 --> 00:14:14.830 body. My hands, my feet, the pain, the pain I 00:14:14.830 --> 00:14:18.330 was in. And when I entered my body, I could hear 00:14:18.330 --> 00:14:22.590 a doctor say, we got him back. Because I think 00:14:22.590 --> 00:14:26.330 when I had left, I think I was probably flat 00:14:26.330 --> 00:14:29.450 -lined. They were afraid that they were going 00:14:29.450 --> 00:14:33.100 to lose me. When I entered back in the doctor 00:14:33.100 --> 00:14:38.879 said we got him back and I think that each of 00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:43.759 my outer body experiences each of my NDE was 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:49.279 God's way of Progressively saying I got you David. 00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:54.679 I got you you're taken care of you are in my 00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:58.779 hands I have you under my control and the amazing 00:14:58.779 --> 00:15:02.289 thing is is that the doctors said when I entered 00:15:02.289 --> 00:15:04.970 the hospital that there would be a 10 % chance 00:15:04.970 --> 00:15:09.129 of life, that I'm more than likely that if I 00:15:09.129 --> 00:15:14.330 was able to survive, that my quality of life 00:15:14.330 --> 00:15:18.330 would be nothing, that I would just be a vegetable 00:15:18.330 --> 00:15:21.730 and that I would never be able to walk or talk 00:15:21.730 --> 00:15:27.309 again. Dr. Glover, the neurosurgeon that worked 00:15:27.309 --> 00:15:31.870 on me, 10 years later, I was in a restaurant 00:15:31.870 --> 00:15:37.129 in Albuquerque with my dad. My dad said, do you 00:15:37.129 --> 00:15:39.610 recognize that man over there? I said, no, I 00:15:39.610 --> 00:15:42.710 don't. And he says, let's go over there and talk 00:15:42.710 --> 00:15:45.629 to him. And he says, Dr. Glover, he says, I want 00:15:45.629 --> 00:15:48.450 to introduce you to somebody. This is my son, 00:15:48.490 --> 00:15:53.190 David. You worked on him 10 years ago. And Dr. 00:15:53.690 --> 00:15:59.309 Glover, his mouth dropped open when he saw me. 00:15:59.529 --> 00:16:04.470 because Dr. Glover said that he never expected 00:16:04.470 --> 00:16:08.830 to see that I would be able to survive like that. 00:16:09.769 --> 00:16:14.769 That is just so beautiful, David. I really appreciate 00:16:14.769 --> 00:16:17.330 you sharing. Do you mind if I ask you a few questions? 00:16:18.169 --> 00:16:21.389 Absolutely. Okay. Just help fill in some of the 00:16:21.389 --> 00:16:24.929 blanks for me. First of all, it's not uncommon. 00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:28.440 for people to have these out -of -body experiences 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:31.259 when they're in a coma. Sort of like you said 00:16:31.259 --> 00:16:36.100 earlier, whether it's O -B -E -N -D -E, the terminology 00:16:36.100 --> 00:16:39.360 really doesn't matter very much, okay? You were 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:43.940 having these experiences where, I guess we'll 00:16:43.940 --> 00:16:46.740 just call it what it is, out -of -body experience, 00:16:46.779 --> 00:16:49.379 because you were up looking down on your body, 00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:52.320 which could only happen from a third -person 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:57.110 kind of standpoint. But then I imagine if you 00:16:57.110 --> 00:17:00.129 were 20 years older than just being seven years 00:17:00.129 --> 00:17:03.149 old, you might've asked specifically the doctors 00:17:03.149 --> 00:17:05.910 later, hey, when I was in surgery, did my heart 00:17:05.910 --> 00:17:10.609 stop? But at the age of seven, of course, you 00:17:10.609 --> 00:17:12.769 wouldn't think to ask those kinds of things. 00:17:13.990 --> 00:17:18.230 Or say, hey, at this point in surgery, I felt 00:17:18.230 --> 00:17:21.029 like I was gone, you know, tell me what was going 00:17:21.029 --> 00:17:23.250 on. That would have been fascinating to hear 00:17:23.250 --> 00:17:26.990 that side of it, which we don't have. But I want 00:17:26.990 --> 00:17:31.630 to hear some more about during the surgery, when 00:17:31.630 --> 00:17:34.329 you were out of body and went to what you described 00:17:34.329 --> 00:17:37.910 as a heavenly realm, were there any other things 00:17:37.910 --> 00:17:41.289 that you felt or that you saw or that you even 00:17:41.289 --> 00:17:46.380 thought about? I was just thinking that that 00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:52.539 I didn't want to go back. I knew that I had to 00:17:52.539 --> 00:17:56.539 go back because that's what they told me to do. 00:17:57.460 --> 00:18:01.299 I wanted to go where the other souls were going. 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:06.119 I wanted to cross that gate, and I didn't want 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:10.339 to go back to the pain, to the earthly confines, 00:18:10.380 --> 00:18:14.500 so to speak. I wanted to be at peace, but I knew 00:18:14.500 --> 00:18:17.230 that I had to. because that's what they said 00:18:17.230 --> 00:18:20.369 I needed to do. Were you feeling peace there 00:18:20.369 --> 00:18:23.650 or were you feeling just longing for something? 00:18:24.470 --> 00:18:28.789 Well, both. I was feeling peace and I was feeling 00:18:28.789 --> 00:18:35.269 that I was at rest. I was at my final destination, 00:18:35.430 --> 00:18:41.430 so to speak. Obviously I didn't cross the gate, 00:18:41.509 --> 00:18:47.859 so to speak. was wanting to be. Because some 00:18:47.859 --> 00:18:50.940 would say our human instinct is to stay alive. 00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:55.339 It's to be here in our body. So what was it about 00:18:55.339 --> 00:18:58.259 that place that made you want to stay? Oh, no, 00:18:58.259 --> 00:19:03.140 no, no. When we're here in our physical bodies, 00:19:03.339 --> 00:19:08.119 this is a temporal. This is temporary. When we're 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:12.920 there, it's much more. It's 50 times greater. 00:19:13.369 --> 00:19:18.089 It's 500 times greater. It's more alive. This 00:19:18.089 --> 00:19:21.069 is just a dream. There, it's real life. Here, 00:19:21.990 --> 00:19:27.289 it's just a vapor, as scripture says. Okay. I 00:19:27.289 --> 00:19:30.029 want to ask you about the angelic figure at the 00:19:30.029 --> 00:19:33.569 gate, because it sounded like the description, 00:19:34.269 --> 00:19:38.430 the typical Saint Peter with the clipboard at 00:19:38.430 --> 00:19:41.309 the pearly gate kind of thing. It almost sounded 00:19:41.309 --> 00:19:44.730 too cliche, but is that what you felt was going 00:19:44.730 --> 00:19:48.150 on? Was he just checking, hey, you can go and 00:19:48.150 --> 00:19:50.289 you can't go? What's the deal with a clipboard? 00:19:51.150 --> 00:19:54.390 Well, I think it was also in the minds of a seven 00:19:54.390 --> 00:19:58.930 -year -old. I think that if, like you were saying, 00:19:59.369 --> 00:20:05.430 if it was 20 years later, the whole experience 00:20:05.430 --> 00:20:09.720 may have been different. A seven -year -old The 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:14.039 mindset may have been a clipboard. A 20 -year 00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:18.380 -old or 27 -year -old may have been something 00:20:18.380 --> 00:20:21.720 different. Someone checking you in, you know, 00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:26.099 like a teacher doing bro -call or something like 00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:28.539 that. You know, that's an experience of a seven 00:20:28.539 --> 00:20:33.259 -year -old in elementary school. The angelic 00:20:33.259 --> 00:20:38.529 figure was... A person was, I don't even say 00:20:38.529 --> 00:20:42.369 it was a person, but it may have been St. Peter, 00:20:42.450 --> 00:20:48.430 may have been, who knows? But it was somebody 00:20:48.430 --> 00:20:53.829 or an angel, angelic figure up there who was 00:20:53.829 --> 00:20:59.970 just saying, you need to go back. You still have 00:20:59.970 --> 00:21:04.369 purpose on earth. And obviously I do have purpose 00:21:04.369 --> 00:21:07.799 because If I didn't come back, I wouldn't have 00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:11.460 two daughters of my own. All right, let me call 00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:13.480 for what may be a little bit of speculation. 00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:16.700 What do you feel was beyond that gate versus 00:21:16.700 --> 00:21:22.140 where you were? Well, OK, I think that where 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:28.059 I was at was the entrance to the heavenly realm. 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:32.819 And beyond the gate, I think I believe was was 00:21:32.819 --> 00:21:37.759 heaven. was the throne of God, the purling gates, 00:21:38.099 --> 00:21:41.359 whatever you may, the streets of gold, however 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:44.880 you may want to illustrate that, the crystal 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:47.500 sea. Or if you want to just call it heaven, call 00:21:47.500 --> 00:21:51.259 it heaven. That's okay. Exactly. And I've had 00:21:51.259 --> 00:21:53.880 a lot of other people tell me about something 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:57.940 kind of similar, whether it was a gate or a hill 00:21:57.940 --> 00:22:01.339 or a passageway or something else. Many people 00:22:01.339 --> 00:22:05.710 feel like I'm headed somewhere and I really want 00:22:05.710 --> 00:22:08.309 to go there, but I also know if I go I'm not 00:22:08.309 --> 00:22:11.390 coming back to my body and It sounds like that's 00:22:11.390 --> 00:22:16.289 how you felt Yes, I believe that if I had crossed 00:22:16.289 --> 00:22:20.470 that gate Well, the time will come when I will 00:22:20.470 --> 00:22:24.630 when I cross that gate then there's no There's 00:22:24.630 --> 00:22:28.750 no return to the earthly realms now if you can 00:22:28.750 --> 00:22:32.309 think of any other detail that you can remember 00:22:32.309 --> 00:22:35.710 about looking down, seeing that person beside 00:22:35.710 --> 00:22:38.950 you that you felt was Jesus. Was there anything 00:22:38.950 --> 00:22:42.369 else you remember about that? I just felt like 00:22:42.369 --> 00:22:47.450 he had a loving presence that had his arm around 00:22:47.450 --> 00:22:51.130 me. I just felt his presence beside me. I didn't 00:22:51.130 --> 00:22:55.710 look to see who it was. I was looking down to 00:22:55.710 --> 00:22:58.529 see what the doctors were doing. I felt love. 00:22:59.210 --> 00:23:03.759 I felt belonging, I felt like I will be there 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:07.220 again someday. You also mentioned that you had 00:23:07.220 --> 00:23:10.059 been going to church since you were a young boy 00:23:10.059 --> 00:23:13.920 years before this. And I forget your exact words, 00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:16.220 but it sounded like you really believed what 00:23:16.220 --> 00:23:19.279 you were learning in church. And then at seven, 00:23:19.380 --> 00:23:23.200 you have this extraordinary experience that most 00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:26.329 seven -year -olds don't have. In what way did 00:23:26.329 --> 00:23:29.609 that, do you think, changed you? So that, I mean, 00:23:29.690 --> 00:23:32.029 you were growing up a different kind of person 00:23:32.029 --> 00:23:34.910 than the other seven and eight and nine and ten 00:23:34.910 --> 00:23:37.950 and fifteen year olds were. How were you different 00:23:37.950 --> 00:23:41.490 than everybody else? How am I different? Well, 00:23:41.650 --> 00:23:44.269 I think everybody's different in their own way. 00:23:44.809 --> 00:23:50.089 I grew up in a, as a missionary kid in a Native 00:23:50.089 --> 00:23:54.230 American culture, standing out like a sore thumb. 00:23:54.799 --> 00:24:00.500 really had us surrounded by spiritual training 00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:05.980 and really knew, really had us in scripture. 00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:09.619 But how did your NDE make you a little bit different 00:24:09.619 --> 00:24:13.660 than everybody else? Or did it? Well, I'm not 00:24:13.660 --> 00:24:16.700 going to say my NDE made me any different. When 00:24:16.700 --> 00:24:22.059 it all comes down to it, when I had an NDE, I... 00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:26.099 had an NDE just like anybody else, just like 00:24:26.099 --> 00:24:31.579 if it was a kid who never even went to church, 00:24:32.539 --> 00:24:37.839 never had any kind of knowledge of God or anything 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:43.700 like that. And if God so sees fit to allow that 00:24:43.700 --> 00:24:48.400 child to have an NDE like that, to experience 00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:53.910 God like that, then God will do that. I'm not 00:24:53.910 --> 00:24:56.529 saying that my NDA would be any different than 00:24:56.529 --> 00:25:00.069 anybody else's. Most people in this life have 00:25:00.069 --> 00:25:03.910 some degree of fear of death, healthy fear of 00:25:03.910 --> 00:25:07.609 death, we'll call it. Even people of faith have 00:25:07.609 --> 00:25:10.329 some degree of fear of death. How about you? 00:25:10.809 --> 00:25:15.549 Having had this experience of death, I have no 00:25:15.549 --> 00:25:18.529 fear. I don't fear death. No, I'm not going to 00:25:18.529 --> 00:25:23.589 go walk out and Jump out in front of a semi or 00:25:23.589 --> 00:25:25.829 nothing like that. I'm not gonna speed it up 00:25:25.829 --> 00:25:31.490 but I don't fear it because The way that I see 00:25:31.490 --> 00:25:34.390 it is that I've already experienced it. I know 00:25:34.390 --> 00:25:38.130 what it's like It's walking one from one room 00:25:38.130 --> 00:25:41.150 into another as far as I'm concerned as far as 00:25:41.150 --> 00:25:44.670 what I've experienced and may I suggest that 00:25:44.670 --> 00:25:48.289 that is You're not having a fear of death because 00:25:48.289 --> 00:25:52.250 the experience is something that did make you 00:25:52.250 --> 00:25:55.910 a little bit different than most of us in a good 00:25:55.910 --> 00:26:00.490 way. I would, over the next few days, I'm going 00:26:00.490 --> 00:26:02.549 to give you a little assignment. Just think on 00:26:02.549 --> 00:26:06.369 that topic right there. How did having that fear 00:26:06.369 --> 00:26:09.690 of death removed affect your life since then? 00:26:10.329 --> 00:26:12.549 Did it make things easier? Did it make them more 00:26:12.549 --> 00:26:15.869 difficult? And then you and I'll talk again sometime 00:26:15.869 --> 00:26:20.509 in the future. Sure. Well, I can tell you, kids 00:26:20.509 --> 00:26:23.130 and stuff like that, they might watch some sort 00:26:23.130 --> 00:26:27.430 of scary movie or something like that, and it's 00:26:27.430 --> 00:26:30.789 like nothing to me. It's a movie. That's the 00:26:30.789 --> 00:26:35.369 way I see things. It just doesn't bother me as 00:26:35.369 --> 00:26:41.150 much. I know that my life, my real life is to 00:26:41.150 --> 00:26:44.950 come is not on this earth, and I don't fear that. 00:26:46.009 --> 00:26:49.250 There were somebody out there today that is really 00:26:49.250 --> 00:26:52.430 struggling with faith in the future. They're 00:26:52.430 --> 00:26:55.730 really totally afraid of death or they're mourning 00:26:55.730 --> 00:26:58.369 the passing of a loved one. What kind of message 00:26:58.369 --> 00:27:01.369 of hope do you have for them? My message of hope 00:27:01.369 --> 00:27:06.210 is that death does not have to be fear. When 00:27:06.210 --> 00:27:10.910 you have a faith in God and a faith in His Son, 00:27:10.910 --> 00:27:14.750 Jesus Christ, that this life is just temporary. 00:27:15.019 --> 00:27:20.900 This life is just a vapor, and our eternal home 00:27:20.900 --> 00:27:23.940 has nothing to do with this earth. Our eternal 00:27:23.940 --> 00:27:28.220 home is in heaven, and our eternal hope is in 00:27:28.220 --> 00:27:32.759 heaven. And that salvation is through the shed 00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:35.799 blood of Jesus Christ and for what He did for 00:27:35.799 --> 00:27:40.200 us. That is our hope. That is our home. That 00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:44.650 is our eternal life. That is my message. David, 00:27:44.990 --> 00:27:47.109 I really appreciate your time today. I really 00:27:47.109 --> 00:27:50.609 appreciate you having the courage to share all 00:27:50.609 --> 00:28:04.079 of this. Thank you very much. Thank you. If you 00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:06.619 want to share your near -death experience, or 00:28:06.619 --> 00:28:08.579 if you have questions or comments about the show, 00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:12.119 send an email to eric at roundtripdeath .com. 00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:14.680 Until then, I wish you everything good that you're 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:17.099 looking for in this life and the next.